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What is a level playing field? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,169
edited December 2020 in General
imageWhat is a level playing field? – politicalbetting.com

As we approach the ultra-final round of discussions, it may be useful to set out what the level playing field argument is actually about. Leaving emotions aside, it’s not essentially an argument about muscle-flexing or sovereignty, but a practical choice.

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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,668
    Thanks Nick.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    https://twitter.com/mc_hankins/status/1337141868195442692
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,668
    https://twitter.com/Tobias_Ellwood/status/1337128523329392641
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Tobias Ellwood looks to be in the wrong party.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    https://twitter.com/Tobias_Ellwood/status/1337001196033335297
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,934
    One thing I can't quite work out is just why the EU seem so obsessed about maintaining fishing rights. It must be a microscopic fraction of their economy. I can see why the UK is firm on it, but not the EU.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/Tobias_Ellwood/status/1337128523329392641

    Is that the Western resolve that sees Germany want to be "neutral" in any stand off between the USA and China because they'd prefer to sell their souls rather than lose a single deutschmark or spend a single extra pfennig on making a proper contribution to Western defence?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/Tobias_Ellwood/status/1337001196033335297

    Have Johnson and Frost swapped suits for a laugh?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    RobD said:

    One thing I can't quite work out is just why the EU seem so obsessed about maintaining fishing rights. It must be a microscopic fraction of their economy. I can see why the UK is firm on it, but not the EU.

    It impacts some eu countries like france a spain a lot if they can no longer fish our waters. Those countries have a veto and it doesn't play well at home for their leaders
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,668
    RobD said:

    One thing I can't quite work out is just why the EU seem so obsessed about maintaining fishing rights. It must be a microscopic fraction of their economy. I can see why the UK is firm on it, but not the EU.

    Like us, the EU have a domestic audience to appeal to as well.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,934
    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    One thing I can't quite work out is just why the EU seem so obsessed about maintaining fishing rights. It must be a microscopic fraction of their economy. I can see why the UK is firm on it, but not the EU.

    It impacts some eu countries like france a spain a lot if they can no longer fish our waters. Those countries have a veto and it doesn't play well at home for their leaders
    But still, fishing must be a small percentage of France's economy. On the UK side there is the sovereignty issue, that doesn't apply to France.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    https://twitter.com/davidfrum/status/1337145921365303297
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    The Tories seem to think that we should be on the receiving end of Nick's Option 2 from the US.

    Not sure why.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    https://twitter.com/krishgm/status/1337100103530782720
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,668
    https://twitter.com/sundersays/status/1337146354527854593
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/krishgm/status/1337100103530782720

    I know it will be hard, but we might just have to accept that we won't be able to get hold of any Good Brie.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    Trump files motion to argue in person before U.S. Supreme Court that he won election | National Post
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,096
    BBC News - Covid-19: France moves to night-time curfew from 15 December
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55266332
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,096
    edited December 2020
    Why can't these people just say i was wrong....always have to caveat it.

    Kay Burley - "It doesn't matter that I thought I was Covid-compliant on a recent social event. The fact is I was wrong, I made a big mistake, and I am sorry.

    When you spend 2hrs in the loo of another venue and then all back to yours for a knee-ups, there is no doubt or mistake, it was deliberate.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    edited December 2020
    SandyRentool said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/krishgm/status/1337100103530782720

    I know it will be hard, but we might just have to accept that we won't be able to get hold of any Good Brie.
    Somerset brie is equally good and in fact I find it tastier than french so usually go for it if available

    https://www.longmancheese.co.uk/product/somerset-brie/
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    Pulpstar said:

    Trump files motion to argue in person before U.S. Supreme Court that he won election | National Post

    That only happens if they accept a case.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    SandyRentool said:

    The Tories seem to think that we should be on the receiving end of Nick's Option 2 from the US.

    Not sure why.

    I suppose when the option is starve or consume chicken, marinaded in chicken excrement and chlorine, Amerrican quality animal husbandry is the winner.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    edited December 2020
    rottenborough said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Trump files motion to argue in person before U.S. Supreme Court that he won election | National Post

    That only happens if they accept a case.
    There's an argument it should be accepted as it's so fundamental, means they can deliver an opinion to utterly demolish it on the merits then.

    I expect that will be the main debate, those who want to accept it to deliver an opinion adverse to TX and those who just want it chucked in the bin without a hearing.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1337148859965902850
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    One thing I can't quite work out is just why the EU seem so obsessed about maintaining fishing rights. It must be a microscopic fraction of their economy. I can see why the UK is firm on it, but not the EU.

    It impacts some eu countries like france a spain a lot if they can no longer fish our waters. Those countries have a veto and it doesn't play well at home for their leaders
    But still, fishing must be a small percentage of France's economy. On the UK side there is the sovereignty issue, that doesn't apply to France.
    As we lie amongst the smouldering ruins we can claim it was all worth it to regain our sovereignty, until we are reminded sovereignty was only ever lost in the minds of the Brexiteers.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,934
    Mexicanpete said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    One thing I can't quite work out is just why the EU seem so obsessed about maintaining fishing rights. It must be a microscopic fraction of their economy. I can see why the UK is firm on it, but not the EU.

    It impacts some eu countries like france a spain a lot if they can no longer fish our waters. Those countries have a veto and it doesn't play well at home for their leaders
    But still, fishing must be a small percentage of France's economy. On the UK side there is the sovereignty issue, that doesn't apply to France.
    As we lie amongst the smouldering ruins we can claim it was all worth it to regain our sovereignty, until we are reminded sovereignty was only ever lost in the minds of the Brexiteers.
    Smouldering ruins? Give me a break.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    Is Boris bullshitting or are we genuinely fucked?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    Jonathan said:

    Is Boris bullshitting or are we genuinely fucked?

    We are genuinely fucked.

    And have been for 4 years so far...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    RobD said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    One thing I can't quite work out is just why the EU seem so obsessed about maintaining fishing rights. It must be a microscopic fraction of their economy. I can see why the UK is firm on it, but not the EU.

    It impacts some eu countries like france a spain a lot if they can no longer fish our waters. Those countries have a veto and it doesn't play well at home for their leaders
    But still, fishing must be a small percentage of France's economy. On the UK side there is the sovereignty issue, that doesn't apply to France.
    As we lie amongst the smouldering ruins we can claim it was all worth it to regain our sovereignty, until we are reminded sovereignty was only ever lost in the minds of the Brexiteers.
    Smouldering ruins? Give me a break.
    No, you are about to have your clean break. Enjoy it!
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    edited December 2020
    Mexicanpete said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    One thing I can't quite work out is just why the EU seem so obsessed about maintaining fishing rights. It must be a microscopic fraction of their economy. I can see why the UK is firm on it, but not the EU.

    It impacts some eu countries like france a spain a lot if they can no longer fish our waters. Those countries have a veto and it doesn't play well at home for their leaders
    But still, fishing must be a small percentage of France's economy. On the UK side there is the sovereignty issue, that doesn't apply to France.
    As we lie amongst the smouldering ruins we can claim it was all worth it to regain our sovereignty, until we are reminded sovereignty was only ever lost in the minds of the Brexiteers.
    Gosh hyperbole much? There will be no smoking ruins. We will be able to vote for politicians who can implement the manifesto they stood on even its labour. We won't have politicians making end runs around the things they know we won't accept as a nation by getting the eu to make it law...whats not to like?

    As a nation we had sovereignty in the same way as the queen is the ultimate power in the land. As long as we don't try to use it we are sovereign
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,165
    edited December 2020
    Jonathan said:

    Is Boris bullshitting or are we genuinely fucked?

    I think on the fucked scale, we're at around 10, with the worst disruption around south-east iceland, cromarty and Hebrides.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    Jonathan said:

    Is Boris bullshitting or are we genuinely fucked?

    Just write "panic buying trip" on a date in your diary.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,165
    edited December 2020
    Pagan2 said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    One thing I can't quite work out is just why the EU seem so obsessed about maintaining fishing rights. It must be a microscopic fraction of their economy. I can see why the UK is firm on it, but not the EU.

    It impacts some eu countries like france a spain a lot if they can no longer fish our waters. Those countries have a veto and it doesn't play well at home for their leaders
    But still, fishing must be a small percentage of France's economy. On the UK side there is the sovereignty issue, that doesn't apply to France.
    As we lie amongst the smouldering ruins we can claim it was all worth it to regain our sovereignty, until we are reminded sovereignty was only ever lost in the minds of the Brexiteers.
    Gosh hyperbole much? There will be no smoking ruins. We will be able to vote for politicians who can implement the manifesto they stood on even its labour. We won't have politicians making end runs around the things they know we won't accept as a nation by getting the eu to make it law...whats not to like?

    As a nation we had sovereignty in the same way as the queen is the ultimate power in the land. As long as we don't try to use it we are sovereign
    The sovereignty you're imagining will quickly dry up when the trade deals with China, India and the US come in. It doesn't exist in the modern world.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    Pagan2 said:

    As a nation we had sovereignty

    You can't buy, sell or eat Sovereignty

    You have destroyed a Nation for a myth.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    Mexicanpete said:

    Just write "panic buying trip" on a date in your diary.

    And make it tomorrow...
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Gallowgate said:

    Tobias Ellwood looks to be in the wrong party.

    Seems like he should have lost the whip with Grieve etc.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    Scott_xP said:

    Pagan2 said:

    As a nation we had sovereignty

    You can't buy, sell or eat Sovereignty

    You have destroyed a Nation for a myth.
    Can't eat buy sell or eat subservience either, you must be hungry
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    Scott_xP said:

    Pagan2 said:

    As a nation we had sovereignty

    You can't buy, sell or eat Sovereignty

    You have destroyed a Nation for a myth.
    You can eat it. Johnson has been dining out on sovereignty for almost five years.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    RobD said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    One thing I can't quite work out is just why the EU seem so obsessed about maintaining fishing rights. It must be a microscopic fraction of their economy. I can see why the UK is firm on it, but not the EU.

    It impacts some eu countries like france a spain a lot if they can no longer fish our waters. Those countries have a veto and it doesn't play well at home for their leaders
    But still, fishing must be a small percentage of France's economy. On the UK side there is the sovereignty issue, that doesn't apply to France.
    As we lie amongst the smouldering ruins we can claim it was all worth it to regain our sovereignty, until we are reminded sovereignty was only ever lost in the minds of the Brexiteers.
    Smouldering ruins? Give me a break.
    “There’s a lot of ruin in a nation.”
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,804
    edited December 2020
    Looks like the US Covid deaths and cases are going to smash through new records by the end of today, possibly spectacularly, looking at the numbers so far today. And Trump is just going on and on about the election. What a disgrace.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    Mexicanpete said:

    You can eat it. Johnson has been dining out on sovereignty for almost five years.

    He never missed a meal before that either

    https://twitter.com/gavinesler/status/1337136831884881927
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1337152578342309889
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,668
    World beating!

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1337152578342309889

    At least Dido did alright.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,751
    WhisperingOracle said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    One thing I can't quite work out is just why the EU seem so obsessed about maintaining fishing rights. It must be a microscopic fraction of their economy. I can see why the UK is firm on it, but not the EU.

    It impacts some eu countries like france a spain a lot if they can no longer fish our waters. Those countries have a veto and it doesn't play well at home for their leaders
    But still, fishing must be a small percentage of France's economy. On the UK side there is the sovereignty issue, that doesn't apply to France.
    As we lie amongst the smouldering ruins we can claim it was all worth it to regain our sovereignty, until we are reminded sovereignty was only ever lost in the minds of the Brexiteers.
    Gosh hyperbole much? There will be no smoking ruins. We will be able to vote for politicians who can implement the manifesto they stood on even its labour. We won't have politicians making end runs around the things they know we won't accept as a nation by getting the eu to make it law...whats not to like?

    As a nation we had sovereignty in the same way as the queen is the ultimate power in the land. As long as we don't try to use it we are sovereign
    The sovereignty you're imagining will quickly dry up when the trade deals with China, India and the US come in. It doesn't exist in the modern world.
    Trade deal with China lol. Have you even slightly been paying attention?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    World beating!

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1337152578342309889

    At least Dido did alright.

    Many people predicted Dido would be her normal disaster self
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    Scott_xP said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    You can eat it. Johnson has been dining out on sovereignty for almost five years.

    He never missed a meal before that either

    https://twitter.com/gavinesler/status/1337136831884881927
    In the days when I recruited staff, on appearance alone the fellow second on the left would have been disregarded for even the most menial role. My thinking would have been, if one can't dress themselves as an adult, they are no use to me.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    WhisperingOracle said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    One thing I can't quite work out is just why the EU seem so obsessed about maintaining fishing rights. It must be a microscopic fraction of their economy. I can see why the UK is firm on it, but not the EU.

    It impacts some eu countries like france a spain a lot if they can no longer fish our waters. Those countries have a veto and it doesn't play well at home for their leaders
    But still, fishing must be a small percentage of France's economy. On the UK side there is the sovereignty issue, that doesn't apply to France.
    As we lie amongst the smouldering ruins we can claim it was all worth it to regain our sovereignty, until we are reminded sovereignty was only ever lost in the minds of the Brexiteers.
    Gosh hyperbole much? There will be no smoking ruins. We will be able to vote for politicians who can implement the manifesto they stood on even its labour. We won't have politicians making end runs around the things they know we won't accept as a nation by getting the eu to make it law...whats not to like?

    As a nation we had sovereignty in the same way as the queen is the ultimate power in the land. As long as we don't try to use it we are sovereign
    The sovereignty you're imagining will quickly dry up when the trade deals with China, India and the US come in. It doesn't exist in the modern world.
    The UK isn't going to do a trade deal with any of those three countries. At least not directly. We may end up in the CPTPP with the US and India which is an association agreement with a high degree of tariff elimination but still has a fair number of NTBs.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    https://twitter.com/jennirsl/status/1337154399056097283
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    World beating!

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1337152578342309889

    At least Dido did alright.

    Keynes proposed the government digging holes and burying cash in them and then letting companies dig up the money. This seems similar.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Jonathan said:

    Is Boris bullshitting or are we genuinely fucked?

    We are fucked.

    Harvey Nichols, I read somewhere, starts planning its Christmas campaign at the beginning of October, not for the forthcoming Christmas but the one in 15 months time. Johnson thinks now is the time for the country to start planning for a no deal Brexit in three weeks. 21 days.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,998
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Gallowgate said:

    Tobias Ellwood looks to be in the wrong party.

    Seems like he should have lost the whip with Grieve etc.
    Maybe he believed his prime minister, the credulous twunt that he is.

    'PM Boris Johnson: This is a very good deal'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-50083270
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    Scott_xP said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    Just write "panic buying trip" on a date in your diary.

    And make it tomorrow...
    I think we'll see queues at supermarkets tomorrow.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    rottenborough said:

    Keynes proposed the government digging holes and burying cash in them and then letting companies dig up the money. This seems similar.

    Where the companies doing the digging up are all mates with the cabinet
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,804
    rottenborough said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Trump files motion to argue in person before U.S. Supreme Court that he won election | National Post

    That only happens if they accept a case.
    Oh they have got to just for the laughs.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,708
    If 106 House Republicans support the Texas case, is it really inconceivable that the five Republican Justices (ie excluding Roberts) will agree to hear the case?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,165
    edited December 2020
    moonshine said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    One thing I can't quite work out is just why the EU seem so obsessed about maintaining fishing rights. It must be a microscopic fraction of their economy. I can see why the UK is firm on it, but not the EU.

    It impacts some eu countries like france a spain a lot if they can no longer fish our waters. Those countries have a veto and it doesn't play well at home for their leaders
    But still, fishing must be a small percentage of France's economy. On the UK side there is the sovereignty issue, that doesn't apply to France.
    As we lie amongst the smouldering ruins we can claim it was all worth it to regain our sovereignty, until we are reminded sovereignty was only ever lost in the minds of the Brexiteers.
    Gosh hyperbole much? There will be no smoking ruins. We will be able to vote for politicians who can implement the manifesto they stood on even its labour. We won't have politicians making end runs around the things they know we won't accept as a nation by getting the eu to make it law...whats not to like?

    As a nation we had sovereignty in the same way as the queen is the ultimate power in the land. As long as we don't try to use it we are sovereign
    The sovereignty you're imagining will quickly dry up when the trade deals with China, India and the US come in. It doesn't exist in the modern world.
    Trade deal with China lol. Have you even slightly been paying attention?
    There will be eventually be a China-specific FTA on terms Brexiters hate ; India will demand immigration terms ; the US will make multiple demands on agriculture, food standards, and much else. The loss of "sovereignty" will simply be more obvious the larger the power.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    IshmaelZ said:

    Jonathan said:

    Is Boris bullshitting or are we genuinely fucked?

    We are fucked.

    Harvey Nichols, I read somewhere, starts planning its Christmas campaign at the beginning of October, not for the forthcoming Christmas but the one in 15 months time. Johnson thinks now is the time for the country to start planning for a no deal Brexit in three weeks. 21 days.
    His whole life he has been an essay crisis merchant and deliverer of late copy. Why change now?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,096
    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1337146911762026498?s=19
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,668
    https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1337155367231496197
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    https://twitter.com/Brexit/status/1337155660279140357
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/jennirsl/status/1337154399056097283

    Does “No Cherry Picking” apply to the EU too?

    Asking for a fish...
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,751
    WhisperingOracle said:

    moonshine said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    One thing I can't quite work out is just why the EU seem so obsessed about maintaining fishing rights. It must be a microscopic fraction of their economy. I can see why the UK is firm on it, but not the EU.

    It impacts some eu countries like france a spain a lot if they can no longer fish our waters. Those countries have a veto and it doesn't play well at home for their leaders
    But still, fishing must be a small percentage of France's economy. On the UK side there is the sovereignty issue, that doesn't apply to France.
    As we lie amongst the smouldering ruins we can claim it was all worth it to regain our sovereignty, until we are reminded sovereignty was only ever lost in the minds of the Brexiteers.
    Gosh hyperbole much? There will be no smoking ruins. We will be able to vote for politicians who can implement the manifesto they stood on even its labour. We won't have politicians making end runs around the things they know we won't accept as a nation by getting the eu to make it law...whats not to like?

    As a nation we had sovereignty in the same way as the queen is the ultimate power in the land. As long as we don't try to use it we are sovereign
    The sovereignty you're imagining will quickly dry up when the trade deals with China, India and the US come in. It doesn't exist in the modern world.
    Trade deal with China lol. Have you even slightly been paying attention?
    There will be eventually be a China-specific FTA on terms Brexiters hate ; India will demand immigration terms, ; the US will make multiple demands on agriculture, food standards, and much else. The loss of "sovereignty" will simply be more obvious the larger the power.
    Of all the fairytale forecasts made on here, the one you provide is perhaps the most amusing.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,165
    edited December 2020
    moonshine said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    moonshine said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    One thing I can't quite work out is just why the EU seem so obsessed about maintaining fishing rights. It must be a microscopic fraction of their economy. I can see why the UK is firm on it, but not the EU.

    It impacts some eu countries like france a spain a lot if they can no longer fish our waters. Those countries have a veto and it doesn't play well at home for their leaders
    But still, fishing must be a small percentage of France's economy. On the UK side there is the sovereignty issue, that doesn't apply to France.
    As we lie amongst the smouldering ruins we can claim it was all worth it to regain our sovereignty, until we are reminded sovereignty was only ever lost in the minds of the Brexiteers.
    Gosh hyperbole much? There will be no smoking ruins. We will be able to vote for politicians who can implement the manifesto they stood on even its labour. We won't have politicians making end runs around the things they know we won't accept as a nation by getting the eu to make it law...whats not to like?

    As a nation we had sovereignty in the same way as the queen is the ultimate power in the land. As long as we don't try to use it we are sovereign
    The sovereignty you're imagining will quickly dry up when the trade deals with China, India and the US come in. It doesn't exist in the modern world.
    Trade deal with China lol. Have you even slightly been paying attention?
    There will be eventually be a China-specific FTA on terms Brexiters hate ; India will demand immigration terms, ; the US will make multiple demands on agriculture, food standards, and much else. The loss of "sovereignty" will simply be more obvious the larger the power.
    Of all the fairytale forecasts made on here, the one you provide is perhaps the most amusing.
    Glad to provide a service of entertainment as well as information - we aim to provide a Reithian service ;.)
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    WhisperingOracle said:

    moonshine said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    One thing I can't quite work out is just why the EU seem so obsessed about maintaining fishing rights. It must be a microscopic fraction of their economy. I can see why the UK is firm on it, but not the EU.

    It impacts some eu countries like france a spain a lot if they can no longer fish our waters. Those countries have a veto and it doesn't play well at home for their leaders
    But still, fishing must be a small percentage of France's economy. On the UK side there is the sovereignty issue, that doesn't apply to France.
    As we lie amongst the smouldering ruins we can claim it was all worth it to regain our sovereignty, until we are reminded sovereignty was only ever lost in the minds of the Brexiteers.
    Gosh hyperbole much? There will be no smoking ruins. We will be able to vote for politicians who can implement the manifesto they stood on even its labour. We won't have politicians making end runs around the things they know we won't accept as a nation by getting the eu to make it law...whats not to like?

    As a nation we had sovereignty in the same way as the queen is the ultimate power in the land. As long as we don't try to use it we are sovereign
    The sovereignty you're imagining will quickly dry up when the trade deals with China, India and the US come in. It doesn't exist in the modern world.
    Trade deal with China lol. Have you even slightly been paying attention?
    There will be eventually be a China-specific FTA on terms Brexiters hate ; India will demand immigration terms ; the US will make multiple demands on agriculture, food standards, and much else. The loss of "sovereignty" will simply be more obvious the larger the power.
    No there won't. That's a deal the UK wouldn't sign. The US deal has already burned out now that Trump is gone.

    You have no clue over what the UK has been prioritising wrt external trade. Take a look at what the actual deals we have signed have achieved before making these unfounded and grandiose claims about what the UK might do but in all likelihood won't.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    This government of our is insane playing roulette with our livelihoods.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    WhisperingOracle said:

    moonshine said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    moonshine said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    One thing I can't quite work out is just why the EU seem so obsessed about maintaining fishing rights. It must be a microscopic fraction of their economy. I can see why the UK is firm on it, but not the EU.

    It impacts some eu countries like france a spain a lot if they can no longer fish our waters. Those countries have a veto and it doesn't play well at home for their leaders
    But still, fishing must be a small percentage of France's economy. On the UK side there is the sovereignty issue, that doesn't apply to France.
    As we lie amongst the smouldering ruins we can claim it was all worth it to regain our sovereignty, until we are reminded sovereignty was only ever lost in the minds of the Brexiteers.
    Gosh hyperbole much? There will be no smoking ruins. We will be able to vote for politicians who can implement the manifesto they stood on even its labour. We won't have politicians making end runs around the things they know we won't accept as a nation by getting the eu to make it law...whats not to like?

    As a nation we had sovereignty in the same way as the queen is the ultimate power in the land. As long as we don't try to use it we are sovereign
    The sovereignty you're imagining will quickly dry up when the trade deals with China, India and the US come in. It doesn't exist in the modern world.
    Trade deal with China lol. Have you even slightly been paying attention?
    There will be eventually be a China-specific FTA on terms Brexiters hate ; India will demand immigration terms, ; the US will make multiple demands on agriculture, food standards, and much else. The loss of "sovereignty" will simply be more obvious the larger the power.
    Of all the fairytale forecasts made on here, the one you provide is perhaps the most amusing.
    Glad to provide a service of entertainment as well as information ;.) A Reithian oracle, hopefully.
    Not so much information as that fake news we hear so much about
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited December 2020
    Scott_xP said:

    Jonathan said:

    Is Boris bullshitting or are we genuinely fucked?

    We are genuinely fucked.

    And have been for 4 years so far...
    What would you have done with them if (re-)tweeting about Brexit hadn't been an option?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,668
    The power of Baby Yoda

    https://twitter.com/Disney/status/1337152322653351936
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,165
    Pagan2 said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    moonshine said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    moonshine said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    One thing I can't quite work out is just why the EU seem so obsessed about maintaining fishing rights. It must be a microscopic fraction of their economy. I can see why the UK is firm on it, but not the EU.

    It impacts some eu countries like france a spain a lot if they can no longer fish our waters. Those countries have a veto and it doesn't play well at home for their leaders
    But still, fishing must be a small percentage of France's economy. On the UK side there is the sovereignty issue, that doesn't apply to France.
    As we lie amongst the smouldering ruins we can claim it was all worth it to regain our sovereignty, until we are reminded sovereignty was only ever lost in the minds of the Brexiteers.
    Gosh hyperbole much? There will be no smoking ruins. We will be able to vote for politicians who can implement the manifesto they stood on even its labour. We won't have politicians making end runs around the things they know we won't accept as a nation by getting the eu to make it law...whats not to like?

    As a nation we had sovereignty in the same way as the queen is the ultimate power in the land. As long as we don't try to use it we are sovereign
    The sovereignty you're imagining will quickly dry up when the trade deals with China, India and the US come in. It doesn't exist in the modern world.
    Trade deal with China lol. Have you even slightly been paying attention?
    There will be eventually be a China-specific FTA on terms Brexiters hate ; India will demand immigration terms, ; the US will make multiple demands on agriculture, food standards, and much else. The loss of "sovereignty" will simply be more obvious the larger the power.
    Of all the fairytale forecasts made on here, the one you provide is perhaps the most amusing.
    Glad to provide a service of entertainment as well as information ;.) A Reithian oracle, hopefully.
    Not so much information as that fake news we hear so much about
    Scandalous ! I have my hand perched on a bible every time I post.
  • dodradedodrade Posts: 597
    Jonathan said:

    Is Boris bullshitting or are we genuinely fucked?

    The current state of negotiations.


    https://youtu.be/BGtEp7zFdrc



  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,459
    rottenborough said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    Just write "panic buying trip" on a date in your diary.

    And make it tomorrow...
    I think we'll see queues at supermarkets tomorrow.
    Bubble. It’s not on most folks radar tbh.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1337157570943922177
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    WhisperingOracle said:

    Pagan2 said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    moonshine said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    moonshine said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    One thing I can't quite work out is just why the EU seem so obsessed about maintaining fishing rights. It must be a microscopic fraction of their economy. I can see why the UK is firm on it, but not the EU.

    It impacts some eu countries like france a spain a lot if they can no longer fish our waters. Those countries have a veto and it doesn't play well at home for their leaders
    But still, fishing must be a small percentage of France's economy. On the UK side there is the sovereignty issue, that doesn't apply to France.
    As we lie amongst the smouldering ruins we can claim it was all worth it to regain our sovereignty, until we are reminded sovereignty was only ever lost in the minds of the Brexiteers.
    Gosh hyperbole much? There will be no smoking ruins. We will be able to vote for politicians who can implement the manifesto they stood on even its labour. We won't have politicians making end runs around the things they know we won't accept as a nation by getting the eu to make it law...whats not to like?

    As a nation we had sovereignty in the same way as the queen is the ultimate power in the land. As long as we don't try to use it we are sovereign
    The sovereignty you're imagining will quickly dry up when the trade deals with China, India and the US come in. It doesn't exist in the modern world.
    Trade deal with China lol. Have you even slightly been paying attention?
    There will be eventually be a China-specific FTA on terms Brexiters hate ; India will demand immigration terms, ; the US will make multiple demands on agriculture, food standards, and much else. The loss of "sovereignty" will simply be more obvious the larger the power.
    Of all the fairytale forecasts made on here, the one you provide is perhaps the most amusing.
    Glad to provide a service of entertainment as well as information ;.) A Reithian oracle, hopefully.
    Not so much information as that fake news we hear so much about
    Scandalous ! I have my hand perched on a bible every time I post.
    blinks did you not note my user name, why would you think I put any credence in that books truthfulness
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,096
    edited December 2020
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1337155367231496197

    It is all very easy to blame the government or the company....the government setup a scheme to save jobs, a company met the criteria for the help, so took it and saved a load of yoing grad jobs, and took paycuts themselves.

    Hard to blame the government that perhaps the company could have cut pay for partners even more. If thst was the standard, no business should have got help unless even after cutting all senior management pay to zilch. Seems a non-starter as a scheme. So what do you do instead, start interfering in every companies in the lands pay structure before paying furlough?

    Now some larger companies.didnt take the help, but i don't blame the ones that did.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,833
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1337155367231496197

    If it kept jobs that would otherwise have been lost fine with me.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,165
    edited December 2020
    MaxPB said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    moonshine said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    One thing I can't quite work out is just why the EU seem so obsessed about maintaining fishing rights. It must be a microscopic fraction of their economy. I can see why the UK is firm on it, but not the EU.

    It impacts some eu countries like france a spain a lot if they can no longer fish our waters. Those countries have a veto and it doesn't play well at home for their leaders
    But still, fishing must be a small percentage of France's economy. On the UK side there is the sovereignty issue, that doesn't apply to France.
    As we lie amongst the smouldering ruins we can claim it was all worth it to regain our sovereignty, until we are reminded sovereignty was only ever lost in the minds of the Brexiteers.
    Gosh hyperbole much? There will be no smoking ruins. We will be able to vote for politicians who can implement the manifesto they stood on even its labour. We won't have politicians making end runs around the things they know we won't accept as a nation by getting the eu to make it law...whats not to like?

    As a nation we had sovereignty in the same way as the queen is the ultimate power in the land. As long as we don't try to use it we are sovereign
    The sovereignty you're imagining will quickly dry up when the trade deals with China, India and the US come in. It doesn't exist in the modern world.
    Trade deal with China lol. Have you even slightly been paying attention?
    There will be eventually be a China-specific FTA on terms Brexiters hate ; India will demand immigration terms ; the US will make multiple demands on agriculture, food standards, and much else. The loss of "sovereignty" will simply be more obvious the larger the power.
    No there won't. That's a deal the UK wouldn't sign. The US deal has already burned out now that Trump is gone.

    You have no clue over what the UK has been prioritising wrt external trade. Take a look at what the actual deals we have signed have achieved before making these unfounded and grandiose claims about what the UK might do but in all likelihood won't.
    These are just simple equations of power. The UK will unquestionably and eventually need specific deals with these huge economies, whatever it prioritises first, and one way or the other, and they won't be on the terms wanted by the most faithful Brexit voters.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    Let’s bring it out...

    https://twitter.com/david_cameron/status/595112367358406656?s=21
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    Jonathan said:

    Let’s bring it out...

    https://twitter.com/david_cameron/status/595112367358406656?s=21

    https://twitter.com/DerekSm15833987/status/1337138347265974276
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1337158693360701441
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127
    WhisperingOracle said:

    MaxPB said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    moonshine said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    One thing I can't quite work out is just why the EU seem so obsessed about maintaining fishing rights. It must be a microscopic fraction of their economy. I can see why the UK is firm on it, but not the EU.

    It impacts some eu countries like france a spain a lot if they can no longer fish our waters. Those countries have a veto and it doesn't play well at home for their leaders
    But still, fishing must be a small percentage of France's economy. On the UK side there is the sovereignty issue, that doesn't apply to France.
    As we lie amongst the smouldering ruins we can claim it was all worth it to regain our sovereignty, until we are reminded sovereignty was only ever lost in the minds of the Brexiteers.
    Gosh hyperbole much? There will be no smoking ruins. We will be able to vote for politicians who can implement the manifesto they stood on even its labour. We won't have politicians making end runs around the things they know we won't accept as a nation by getting the eu to make it law...whats not to like?

    As a nation we had sovereignty in the same way as the queen is the ultimate power in the land. As long as we don't try to use it we are sovereign
    The sovereignty you're imagining will quickly dry up when the trade deals with China, India and the US come in. It doesn't exist in the modern world.
    Trade deal with China lol. Have you even slightly been paying attention?
    There will be eventually be a China-specific FTA on terms Brexiters hate ; India will demand immigration terms ; the US will make multiple demands on agriculture, food standards, and much else. The loss of "sovereignty" will simply be more obvious the larger the power.
    No there won't. That's a deal the UK wouldn't sign. The US deal has already burned out now that Trump is gone.

    You have no clue over what the UK has been prioritising wrt external trade. Take a look at what the actual deals we have signed have achieved before making these unfounded and grandiose claims about what the UK might do but in all likelihood won't.
    These are just simple equations of power. The UK will unquestionably and eventually need specific deals with these huge economies, whatever it prioritises first and one way or the other, and they won't be on the terms wanted by the most faithful Brexit voters.
    We won't unquestionably need such deals.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    edited December 2020
    I welcome this header immensely. Some things get said so often they lose all meaning (it's my life motto) and you need to refresh.
    Jonathan said:

    Let’s bring it out...

    https://twitter.com/david_cameron/status/595112367358406656?s=21

    Yes, a reminder that we should have listened to him. I should have.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    Mortimer said:

    We won't unquestionably need such deals.

    Brexit is predicated on them
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    Is the government incompetent, reckless, malign or all three?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,096
    edited December 2020
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    The power of Baby Yoda

    https://twitter.com/Disney/status/1337152322653351936

    Quantity over quality?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    rottenborough said:

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1337089380423438337

    Historians will gawp at the stupidity of the repeated "save xmas" nonsense, started by No 10 weeks ago and fed to favoured journos, which has led to this point.

    Borderline criminal political comms.

    I feel I've been pretty generous in accepting some things as being out of the government's control, and accepting that errors and mistakes are inevitable in such a difficult situation and some leeway must be granted. This is not one of those times.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,165
    Mortimer said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    MaxPB said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    moonshine said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    One thing I can't quite work out is just why the EU seem so obsessed about maintaining fishing rights. It must be a microscopic fraction of their economy. I can see why the UK is firm on it, but not the EU.

    It impacts some eu countries like france a spain a lot if they can no longer fish our waters. Those countries have a veto and it doesn't play well at home for their leaders
    But still, fishing must be a small percentage of France's economy. On the UK side there is the sovereignty issue, that doesn't apply to France.
    As we lie amongst the smouldering ruins we can claim it was all worth it to regain our sovereignty, until we are reminded sovereignty was only ever lost in the minds of the Brexiteers.
    Gosh hyperbole much? There will be no smoking ruins. We will be able to vote for politicians who can implement the manifesto they stood on even its labour. We won't have politicians making end runs around the things they know we won't accept as a nation by getting the eu to make it law...whats not to like?

    As a nation we had sovereignty in the same way as the queen is the ultimate power in the land. As long as we don't try to use it we are sovereign
    The sovereignty you're imagining will quickly dry up when the trade deals with China, India and the US come in. It doesn't exist in the modern world.
    Trade deal with China lol. Have you even slightly been paying attention?
    There will be eventually be a China-specific FTA on terms Brexiters hate ; India will demand immigration terms ; the US will make multiple demands on agriculture, food standards, and much else. The loss of "sovereignty" will simply be more obvious the larger the power.
    No there won't. That's a deal the UK wouldn't sign. The US deal has already burned out now that Trump is gone.

    You have no clue over what the UK has been prioritising wrt external trade. Take a look at what the actual deals we have signed have achieved before making these unfounded and grandiose claims about what the UK might do but in all likelihood won't.
    These are just simple equations of power. The UK will unquestionably and eventually need specific deals with these huge economies, whatever it prioritises first and one way or the other, and they won't be on the terms wanted by the most faithful Brexit voters.
    We won't unquestionably need such deals.
    Je suis certain qu'ils sont une inevitabilite.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    kle4 said:

    I welcome this header immensely. Some things get said so often they lose all meaning (it's my life motto) and you need to refresh.

    Jonathan said:

    Let’s bring it out...

    https://twitter.com/david_cameron/status/595112367358406656?s=21

    Yes, a reminder that we should have listened to him. I should have.
    We turned down free owls for this.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    WhisperingOracle said:

    MaxPB said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    moonshine said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    One thing I can't quite work out is just why the EU seem so obsessed about maintaining fishing rights. It must be a microscopic fraction of their economy. I can see why the UK is firm on it, but not the EU.

    It impacts some eu countries like france a spain a lot if they can no longer fish our waters. Those countries have a veto and it doesn't play well at home for their leaders
    But still, fishing must be a small percentage of France's economy. On the UK side there is the sovereignty issue, that doesn't apply to France.
    As we lie amongst the smouldering ruins we can claim it was all worth it to regain our sovereignty, until we are reminded sovereignty was only ever lost in the minds of the Brexiteers.
    Gosh hyperbole much? There will be no smoking ruins. We will be able to vote for politicians who can implement the manifesto they stood on even its labour. We won't have politicians making end runs around the things they know we won't accept as a nation by getting the eu to make it law...whats not to like?

    As a nation we had sovereignty in the same way as the queen is the ultimate power in the land. As long as we don't try to use it we are sovereign
    The sovereignty you're imagining will quickly dry up when the trade deals with China, India and the US come in. It doesn't exist in the modern world.
    Trade deal with China lol. Have you even slightly been paying attention?
    There will be eventually be a China-specific FTA on terms Brexiters hate ; India will demand immigration terms ; the US will make multiple demands on agriculture, food standards, and much else. The loss of "sovereignty" will simply be more obvious the larger the power.
    No there won't. That's a deal the UK wouldn't sign. The US deal has already burned out now that Trump is gone.

    You have no clue over what the UK has been prioritising wrt external trade. Take a look at what the actual deals we have signed have achieved before making these unfounded and grandiose claims about what the UK might do but in all likelihood won't.
    These are just simple equations of power. The UK will unquestionably and eventually need specific deals with these huge economies, whatever it prioritises first and one way or the other, and they won't be on the terms wanted by the most faithful Brexit voters.
    The point is that those deals won't be done. Part of why India has insisted on immigration being part of the equation is because they know it's an easy get out for them to not do one but still publicly be in favour of free trade. India has already withdrawn from RCEP because it doesn't really do free trade. The US deal has been covered here many times and the UK has a gigantic trade surplus with the US, there's no pressing need for a trade deal with the US, not Dr our perspective. Finally, the UK is already diversifying away from China and Chinese supply chains because of this whole virus crap, it would be completely against the run of play to sign a trade deal with China of any kind, if anything the government is likely to use national security concerns to close up Chinese import and investment over the next few years. We've already passed laws to that effect for investment so that Chinese companies are unable to buy up British companies on the cheap.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    WhisperingOracle said:

    Pagan2 said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    moonshine said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    moonshine said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    One thing I can't quite work out is just why the EU seem so obsessed about maintaining fishing rights. It must be a microscopic fraction of their economy. I can see why the UK is firm on it, but not the EU.

    It impacts some eu countries like france a spain a lot if they can no longer fish our waters. Those countries have a veto and it doesn't play well at home for their leaders
    But still, fishing must be a small percentage of France's economy. On the UK side there is the sovereignty issue, that doesn't apply to France.
    As we lie amongst the smouldering ruins we can claim it was all worth it to regain our sovereignty, until we are reminded sovereignty was only ever lost in the minds of the Brexiteers.
    Gosh hyperbole much? There will be no smoking ruins. We will be able to vote for politicians who can implement the manifesto they stood on even its labour. We won't have politicians making end runs around the things they know we won't accept as a nation by getting the eu to make it law...whats not to like?

    As a nation we had sovereignty in the same way as the queen is the ultimate power in the land. As long as we don't try to use it we are sovereign
    The sovereignty you're imagining will quickly dry up when the trade deals with China, India and the US come in. It doesn't exist in the modern world.
    Trade deal with China lol. Have you even slightly been paying attention?
    There will be eventually be a China-specific FTA on terms Brexiters hate ; India will demand immigration terms, ; the US will make multiple demands on agriculture, food standards, and much else. The loss of "sovereignty" will simply be more obvious the larger the power.
    Of all the fairytale forecasts made on here, the one you provide is perhaps the most amusing.
    Glad to provide a service of entertainment as well as information ;.) A Reithian oracle, hopefully.
    Not so much information as that fake news we hear so much about
    Scandalous ! I have my hand perched on a bible every time I post.
    Careful now. We don't want to know what other posters are doing with their other hand when they are posting.

    Full disclosure: I'm stroking my rabbit.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    RobD said:

    One thing I can't quite work out is just why the EU seem so obsessed about maintaining fishing rights. It must be a microscopic fraction of their economy. I can see why the UK is firm on it, but not the EU.

    Yes, two are tangoing on that issue, inexplicably. I think it's worth considering that just because the EU are in a stronger position, and even if they are, in general, seen by many as being more reasonable, they are not perfect in their choices and actions, especially when politics is in play and our perhaps pig headed leaders' stance is pitted against their leaders' ignorance of and contempt for the British political situation which, worthy of contempt people may think it is, but it is not useful to allow that to impact your decision making.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    I welcome this header immensely. Some things get said so often they lose all meaning (it's my life motto) and you need to refresh.

    Jonathan said:

    Let’s bring it out...

    https://twitter.com/david_cameron/status/595112367358406656?s=21

    Yes, a reminder that we should have listened to him. I should have.
    We turned down free owls for this.
    No, because he didn't want this.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    SandyRentool said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    Pagan2 said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    moonshine said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    moonshine said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    One thing I can't quite work out is just why the EU seem so obsessed about maintaining fishing rights. It must be a microscopic fraction of their economy. I can see why the UK is firm on it, but not the EU.

    It impacts some eu countries like france a spain a lot if they can no longer fish our waters. Those countries have a veto and it doesn't play well at home for their leaders
    But still, fishing must be a small percentage of France's economy. On the UK side there is the sovereignty issue, that doesn't apply to France.
    As we lie amongst the smouldering ruins we can claim it was all worth it to regain our sovereignty, until we are reminded sovereignty was only ever lost in the minds of the Brexiteers.
    Gosh hyperbole much? There will be no smoking ruins. We will be able to vote for politicians who can implement the manifesto they stood on even its labour. We won't have politicians making end runs around the things they know we won't accept as a nation by getting the eu to make it law...whats not to like?

    As a nation we had sovereignty in the same way as the queen is the ultimate power in the land. As long as we don't try to use it we are sovereign
    The sovereignty you're imagining will quickly dry up when the trade deals with China, India and the US come in. It doesn't exist in the modern world.
    Trade deal with China lol. Have you even slightly been paying attention?
    There will be eventually be a China-specific FTA on terms Brexiters hate ; India will demand immigration terms, ; the US will make multiple demands on agriculture, food standards, and much else. The loss of "sovereignty" will simply be more obvious the larger the power.
    Of all the fairytale forecasts made on here, the one you provide is perhaps the most amusing.
    Glad to provide a service of entertainment as well as information ;.) A Reithian oracle, hopefully.
    Not so much information as that fake news we hear so much about
    Scandalous ! I have my hand perched on a bible every time I post.
    Careful now. We don't want to know what other posters are doing with their other hand when they are posting.

    Full disclosure: I'm stroking my rabbit.
    A fluffy bunny type rabbit or the sex toy type?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    I welcome this header immensely. Some things get said so often they lose all meaning (it's my life motto) and you need to refresh.

    Jonathan said:

    Let’s bring it out...

    https://twitter.com/david_cameron/status/595112367358406656?s=21

    Yes, a reminder that we should have listened to him. I should have.
    We turned down free owls for this.
    No, because he didn't want this.
    His arrogance unlocked this. Worst prime minister apart from the incumbent.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,165
    edited December 2020
    MaxPB said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    MaxPB said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    moonshine said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    One thing I can't quite work out is just why the EU seem so obsessed about maintaining fishing rights. It must be a microscopic fraction of their economy. I can see why the UK is firm on it, but not the EU.

    It impacts some eu countries like france a spain a lot if they can no longer fish our waters. Those countries have a veto and it doesn't play well at home for their leaders
    But still, fishing must be a small percentage of France's economy. On the UK side there is the sovereignty issue, that doesn't apply to France.
    As we lie amongst the smouldering ruins we can claim it was all worth it to regain our sovereignty, until we are reminded sovereignty was only ever lost in the minds of the Brexiteers.
    Gosh hyperbole much? There will be no smoking ruins. We will be able to vote for politicians who can implement the manifesto they stood on even its labour. We won't have politicians making end runs around the things they know we won't accept as a nation by getting the eu to make it law...whats not to like?

    As a nation we had sovereignty in the same way as the queen is the ultimate power in the land. As long as we don't try to use it we are sovereign
    The sovereignty you're imagining will quickly dry up when the trade deals with China, India and the US come in. It doesn't exist in the modern world.
    Trade deal with China lol. Have you even slightly been paying attention?
    There will be eventually be a China-specific FTA on terms Brexiters hate ; India will demand immigration terms ; the US will make multiple demands on agriculture, food standards, and much else. The loss of "sovereignty" will simply be more obvious the larger the power.
    No there won't. That's a deal the UK wouldn't sign. The US deal has already burned out now that Trump is gone.

    You have no clue over what the UK has been prioritising wrt external trade. Take a look at what the actual deals we have signed have achieved before making these unfounded and grandiose claims about what the UK might do but in all likelihood won't.
    These are just simple equations of power. The UK will unquestionably and eventually need specific deals with these huge economies, whatever it prioritises first and one way or the other, and they won't be on the terms wanted by the most faithful Brexit voters.
    The point is that those deals won't be done. Part of why India has insisted on immigration being part of the equation is because they know it's an easy get out for them to not do one but still publicly be in favour of free trade. India has already withdrawn from RCEP because it doesn't really do free trade. The US deal has been covered here many times and the UK has a gigantic trade surplus with the US, there's no pressing need for a trade deal with the US, not Dr our perspective. Finally, the UK is already diversifying away from China and Chinese supply chains because of this whole virus crap, it would be completely against the run of play to sign a trade deal with China of any kind, if anything the government is likely to use national security concerns to close up Chinese import and investment over the next few years. We've already passed laws to that effect for investment so that Chinese companies are unable to buy up British companies on the cheap.
    I don't agree here, I'm afraid. These are just far too huge powers for a post-Brexit Britain not to engage with specifically on trade, and in time it will.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    The power of Baby Yoda

    https://twitter.com/Disney/status/1337152322653351936

    Quantity over quality?
    Disney's issue is likely to be going overboard, then overcorrecting. Many criticise the Mavel movies as being a bit formulaic and there's some truth in that, but while some were not great, many were and none were outright bad, despite them turning out by the end 3 of them a year. After Solo was a stupefyingly bland Star Wars film they paused on a bunch of side story movies, but frankly, given the absurd scale of the extended Star Wars canon, they could very easily do 1-2 movies a year, and many a series, without exhausting themselves or churning out complete garbage.

    Doesn't mean they won't do just that, there's a finite number of good writers, producers and actors out there, but the scale of that over that period doesn't in itself strike a cause for worry.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    The power of Baby Yoda

    https://twitter.com/Disney/status/1337152322653351936

    I'm not paying for Disney Plus then paying on top of that more than I would in a cinema to see their releases though.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    I welcome this header immensely. Some things get said so often they lose all meaning (it's my life motto) and you need to refresh.

    Jonathan said:

    Let’s bring it out...

    https://twitter.com/david_cameron/status/595112367358406656?s=21

    Yes, a reminder that we should have listened to him. I should have.
    We turned down free owls for this.
    No, because he didn't want this.
    His arrogance unlocked this. Worst prime minister apart from the incumbent.
    Only because we managed to avoid milibrand, corbyn and starmer
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,354
    FPT (apologetically)

    I detect a sober mood on here tonite as No Deal hardens into a reality. My attempts to introduce some smutty humour earlier now seems out of place so I'll give the answers to my little quiz now and fetch my coat.

    6" = Much Ado About Nothing
    9" = As You Like It
    12" = Taming Of The Shrew
    Wet = Midsummer's Night Dream
    Dry = Twelfth Night

    And the GBS diagram was:

    0 0
    0 0 0

    Man and Superman.

    Bet you all can't wait to reproduce these little gems over Christmas. :)

    Toodle pip.
  • matthiasfromhamburgmatthiasfromhamburg Posts: 957
    completely off topic:

    Robert Altmann's "Gosford Park" on German telly. Young Lozza in one of his early roles, convincingly portraying a complete arsehole. What a hoot.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    However this ends I don’t appreciate having my livelihood and my children’s future being gambled like this.
This discussion has been closed.