"One of the big gambles that Johnson and his team has made has been to pre-order tens of millions of vaccines spread out across different potential suppliers."
I take issue with calling it a big gamble. It was actually good governance (for once). A big gamble would have been to just rely on Oxford vaccine or to try and wait until announcements before placing orders.
Bizarre Anglocentric headline. "THE UK SET TO BE THE FIRST WHERE PEOPLE ARE VACCINATED"
I think China has already vaccinated a million people. Russia has a vaccination program.
(I have a high opinion of Russian science, so I don't share the routine pb-sneering of Russia).
A prominent Russian journalist who had been given the vaccine announced yesterday that he has fallen ill with coronavirus, so either he was unlucky, or what he was given was ineffective.
If it is 92% effective then it doesn't work on one in every 12 people. Lot of people.
Is it not the case though that once you get above 80 % or so that it makes it almost herd immunity and it will die out etc
Absolutely. But where we are now, being vaccinated but still getting it is no surprise.
One of my all-time favourite scientists was an anti-vaxxer.
Alfred Russell Wallace, biologist, socialist. The wealthy Charles Darwin's impoverished competitor.
Wallace argued that both liberty and science need to be taken into account, but that liberty is more important than science.
It is a brave argument.
An anti vaxxer or just an asserter that our bodies don't belong to the state and we get a say in what goes into them? I for example support a jehovah's witness's right to refuse medical interventions for themselves but it doesn't make me anti medical intervention
He seems to have been simply wrong on the science, he thought the smallpox vaccine was ineffective. The argument was about vaccinating children, no one has evet tried compulsory vaccination of adults nor compulsory procedures on adult JWs.
No not as yet, but there is compulsory and practically compulsory. If a vaccination for Covid is necessary to be employed, go on a train, a bus, a plane, a bar, a restaurant etc then while not in the legal sense its compulsory it is practically compulsory.
A good example of this is a while back I was offered a deal to leave from a company I worked for. However I had to run it past a solicitor. However to do that I had to have photo id. Now I don't have a driving licence with a photo nor did I have a valid passport at the time. Photo id is not compulsory however practically I had to get one just so I could accept the agreement
The reason for needing a solicitor is that s.203 of the Employment Rights Act mean that an employee needs to take independent legal advice on such deals. The reason for needing the photo ID was, believe it or not, money laundering.
I get this all the time. A client needs me to look at a simple settlement (formerly compromise) agreement on his or her exit from employment but my firm (and nearly all others) requires photo ID and proof of address from all new clients because, in large transactions, law firm client accounts are often used to launder money. Firms get into big trouble if they don't go through client due diligence. I accept that it's frustrating because, as I am sure was the case for you, no money was moving in or out of client account but the rules are rigedly enforced.
It's certainly not looking good for them. They could be at three times the case numbers of the rest of the UK by mid December, with corresponding death numbers around New Year.
Labour might have just lost the Senedd election in May.
But at least they did things differently to England.
"One of the big gambles that Johnson and his team has made has been to pre-order tens of millions of vaccines spread out across different potential suppliers."
I take issue with calling it a big gamble. It was actually good governance (for once). A big gamble would have been to just rely on Oxford vaccine or to try and wait until announcements before placing orders.
How is that a gamble? A gamble would be to buy only one.
It's certainly not looking good for them. They could be at three times the case numbers of the rest of the UK by mid December, with corresponding death numbers around New Year.
Labour might have just lost the Senedd election in May.
There are regular broadcasts from some of the English Labour posters on pb,com, reassuring us ignorant Welsh that Drakeford has the matter under control.
But -- I agree -- the data do seem to show that Drakeford has fucked up rather spectacularly this Autumn.
I have only seen one pro-Drakeford post on PB (I haven't really been looking though) and that was predictably from that infamous Corbynista, TSE.
Have you done your "big lockdown" shop for (my prediction) next Friday yet?
Bizarre Anglocentric headline. "THE UK SET TO BE THE FIRST WHERE PEOPLE ARE VACCINATED"
I think China has already vaccinated a million people. Russia has a vaccination program.
(I have a high opinion of Russian science, so I don't share the routine pb-sneering of Russia).
A prominent Russian journalist who had been given the vaccine announced yesterday that he has fallen ill with coronavirus, so either he was unlucky, or what he was given was ineffective.
If it is 92% effective then it doesn't work on one in every 12 people. Lot of people.
Is it not the case though that once you get above 80 % or so that it makes it almost herd immunity and it will die out etc
Absolutely. But where we are now, being vaccinated but still getting it is no surprise.
Yeah, the story about the Russian journalist wouldn't be surprising in the slightest, and tells us nothing about its efficacy.
I'm writing an article at this evening about whether employers can legally require employees to take a vaccine. I like them to be short and pithy but I'm bogged down in an analysis of whether anti-vaxx could be a "philosophical belief" under the Equality Act. I immediately said "no", its more akin to a non-protected political belief, but now I'm doubting myself because ethical veganism was held in January to be protected against discrimination - and both largely revolve around what you put in your body. I'll fudge that bit for the mo and move onto H&S.
While not an antivaxxer by any means I am in the 50% that wait category. Maybe because I grew up when thalidomide is a thing. I think someone could quite probably make a case that the accelerated testing on the vaccine gave them doubts about its safety. I believe the normal time to introduce a new vaccine is 7 years and a lot of that is addressing safety issues. As a layman on this I therefore assume that 7 years testing has a reason for it rather than just a number plucked out of thin air.
I would suggest a company could quite rightly say you can't come into the office without a vaccination but would be on stickier ground firing you if you can work from home just because you took a wait and see approach
Also on the ethical vegan thing is the vaccine not tested on animals?
I don't know if the vaccine is tested on animals but even if it were it would only be indirectly discriminatory and would therefore justifiable. It's only direct discrimination (e.g. "we're firing you because you're a woman/asian/gay/Catholic etc etc") that can't be justified - except for age discrimination where you can theoretically kick out oldies just because of age if you can show there is a need to make room for younger workers, but even that is difficult.
How will the company know its employees' vaccination status? (We mentioned this the other day in respect of airlines.) Is Nadhim Zahawi going to hand out certificates of vaccination? Will there be a central database created (with accompanying privacy issues)?
Vaccination certificates are standard; you have to show them at the borders of countries which require them (e.g. yellow fever in some African countries)
For past 6 months, it has also been standard when entering a whole load of countries to have paperwork proving one or two negative covid tests in the past 7 days. I don't see how its much different to that.
"One of the big gambles that Johnson and his team has made has been to pre-order tens of millions of vaccines spread out across different potential suppliers."
I take issue with calling it a big gamble. It was actually good governance (for once). A big gamble would have been to just rely on Oxford vaccine or to try and wait until announcements before placing orders.
It's the one area the government have actually been world beating.
A YouGov survey for The Times has found that 73 per cent of people are likely to take a vaccine if it becomes available on the NHS but only a third would like to be among the first to do so. Almost half said they would prefer to wait until someone else was given it before they took it.
Twenty-five per cent said they would rather take the Oxford-Astrazeneca vaccine compared with 6 per cent the Pfizer vaccine, 2 per cent the Moderna one and 29 per cent who expressed no preference.
Thanks for posting that - esp given you suggested fewer people would be prepared to take the Oxford-Astrazeneca vaccine the other day. IMHO there remains enough respect for the medical profession in this country that if a GP says he's taken it then patients will generally follow. I may be wrong though.
I would not be keen on being lumbered with the Oxford vaccine ...
Many PBTories seem to be getting quite excited at the prospect that we in Wales are all going to succumb to Covid because of Starmer/Drakeford's too early, too short, reckless lockdown, whereas in England you have all been saved by Johnson's genius.
The figures look patchy everywhere, but indeed seem to be on the rise in lockdown England's shopping paradise (Wales).
Quite frankly, I'd like us all to survive.
I am not the least excited and the fire break as a one off solution as promoted by Drakeford was a mistake
I'm writing an article at this evening about whether employers can legally require employees to take a vaccine. I like them to be short and pithy but I'm bogged down in an analysis of whether anti-vaxx could be a "philosophical belief" under the Equality Act. I immediately said "no", its more akin to a non-protected political belief, but now I'm doubting myself because ethical veganism was held in January to be protected against discrimination - and both largely revolve around what you put in your body. I'll fudge that bit for the mo and move onto H&S.
We've been discussing this at work this week, the considered view is that someone's ethical veganism won't cause colleagues to die/get ill unlike a militant antivaxxer.
But that's a work in progress.
I'd imagine that employers can choose to exclude people based on a criterion from their building. They can't unemploy someone on the basis that they refuse to comply though. Employers have no power over you outside the workplace.
Actually they do have some power.
Some can sack you for what you post on social media for starters.
I'd guess that's tricky. If you posted from within the workplace fair enough, but if you posted elsewhere and din't make a connection with your company. The employer would have to make an argument that this counted as within the workplace - and I think that's the line. (There are almost certainly experts on this available on PB, and they probably are avoiding any comment - I don't comment on my personal specialist area - and the streets are not so well swept as a result)
My contract of employment says I can also be sacked for drug use.
Something some people do outside the workplace.
Take Jake Hepple, he wasn't sacked for organising the 'White Lives Matter' banner on a plane, he was sacked for repeatedly using racist terms on social media and admitting drug use.
I wonder on what basis 'drug use' might be judged though.
Employment contracts say all sorts of wild and wonderful things, most usually relating to IP. They're often not enforceable though.
Extreme conduct might spill over, and perhaps the case you cite is an example of that.
Plenty of places have random mandatory drug tests.
It is a bloody pain, some people have performance issues, one person it took them six hours to pee.
That's 'in the office' though. If you drink a couple of litres of water you'll want to go before a couple of hours are out.
Occupations like Air Traffic Controllers, Tube Drivers, Bus Drivers, Ferry Captains, who knows what else. These occupations bring with them an expectation of care on the employer and that expectation must devolve to the employee too.
Half the City would perhaps admit to having at one time used drugs - they're not likely to be sacked.
Not just half the City. Last summer's Conservative leadership election had them queueing up to confess the *one time* they had tried drugs. No-one cared, except it was fatal for Michael Gove's chances but then he went well OTT.
Another circuit breaker? I wonder if we will be hearing many politicians bringing that up again?
My wife and I already have cancelled our family Christmas with 10 of us and will spend it on our own
Our family completely agree and will also have Christmas on their own with their own children
And we decided this during the fire break as we had no confidence it would change the covid incidence
Well it did seem to (temporarily) change the COVID incidence quite significantly to be fair. What was strange is quite the reported (and i'm not claiming to have followed it closely so may just be talking nonsense) extent of the relaxation afterwards. Groups of 15?
One of my all-time favourite scientists was an anti-vaxxer.
Alfred Russell Wallace, biologist, socialist. The wealthy Charles Darwin's impoverished competitor.
Wallace argued that both liberty and science need to be taken into account, but that liberty is more important than science.
It is a brave argument.
An anti vaxxer or just an asserter that our bodies don't belong to the state and we get a say in what goes into them? I for example support a jehovah's witness's right to refuse medical interventions for themselves but it doesn't make me anti medical intervention
He seems to have been simply wrong on the science, he thought the smallpox vaccine was ineffective. The argument was about vaccinating children, no one has evet tried compulsory vaccination of adults nor compulsory procedures on adult JWs.
No not as yet, but there is compulsory and practically compulsory. If a vaccination for Covid is necessary to be employed, go on a train, a bus, a plane, a bar, a restaurant etc then while not in the legal sense its compulsory it is practically compulsory.
A good example of this is a while back I was offered a deal to leave from a company I worked for. However I had to run it past a solicitor. However to do that I had to have photo id. Now I don't have a driving licence with a photo nor did I have a valid passport at the time. Photo id is not compulsory however practically I had to get one just so I could accept the agreement
The reason for needing a solicitor is that s.203 of the Employment Rights Act mean that an employee needs to take independent legal advice on such deals. The reason for needing the photo ID was, believe it or not, money laundering.
I get this all the time. A client needs me to look at a simple settlement (formerly compromise) agreement on his or her exit from employment but my firm (and nearly all others) requires photo ID and proof of address from all new clients because, in large transactions, law firm client accounts are often used to launder money. Firms get into big trouble if they don't go through client due diligence. I accept that it's frustrating because, as I am sure was the case for you, no money was moving in or out of client account but the rules are rigedly enforced.
Don't get me wrong wasn't blaming the solicitor and was aware it was money laundering laws I merely used it as example of something not being legally compulsory but practically compulsory
Many PBTories seem to be getting quite excited at the prospect that we in Wales are all going to succumb to Covid because of Starmer/Drakeford's too early, too short, reckless lockdown, whereas in England you have all been saved by Johnson's genius.
The figures look patchy everywhere, but indeed seem to be on the rise in lockdown England's shopping paradise (Wales).
Quite frankly, I'd like us all to survive.
I am not the least excited and the fire break as a one off solution as promoted by Drakeford was a mistake
I wasn't referring to you at all BigG. Perish the thought. You wouldn't be encouraged to see the pandemic run riot in Wales to confirm Boris' wisdom.
Many PBTories seem to be getting quite excited at the prospect that we in Wales are all going to succumb to Covid because of Starmer/Drakeford's too early, too short, reckless lockdown, whereas in England you have all been saved by Johnson's genius.
The figures look patchy everywhere, but indeed seem to be on the rise in lockdown England's shopping paradise (Wales).
Quite frankly, I'd like us all to survive.
The problem wasn't the locking down (which wasn't early), but the opening up with few restrictions. Hopefully people are taking things into their own hands and are locking themselves down to some degree before Drakeford officially gets round to it.
Another circuit breaker? I wonder if we will be hearing many politicians bringing that up again?
My wife and I already have cancelled our family Christmas with 10 of us and will spend it on our own
Our family completely agree and will also have Christmas on their own with their own children
And we decided this during the fire break as we had no confidence it would change the covid incidence
Well it did change the COVID incidence quite significantly to be fair. What was strange is quite the reported (and i'm not claiming to have followed it closely so may just be talking nonsense) extent of the relaxation afterwards. Groups of 15?
The mistake was three fold...two weeks isn't long enough to really squish down covid, especially when Wales have two areas of extreme rates. Two, you don't know from the data if it has really worked when you finish and in particular which areas you still have a problem. Three, the insistence of going from that to a nationwide relaxation that was far too easy.
If you notice Witty and Valance report the other day, a month of lockdown in England and they were still using phrases like the trend of the data INDICATES we have turned the corner. Even a month is pushing it to know if it has worked.
And of course as we pointed out at the time, the model the 2 week idea was based on, utter horseshit. Even by some of the crap modelling work done during this pandemic, it was up there with UoW one in terms of bollockness.
Another circuit breaker? I wonder if we will be hearing many politicians bringing that up again?
My wife and I already have cancelled our family Christmas with 10 of us and will spend it on our own
Our family completely agree and will also have Christmas on their own with their own children
And we decided this during the fire break as we had no confidence it would change the covid incidence
Well it did seem to (temporarily) change the COVID incidence quite significantly to be fair. What was strange is quite the reported (and i'm not claiming to have followed it closely so may just be talking nonsense) extent of the relaxation afterwards. Groups of 15?
I see no evidence it was a success and as I reported from day 1 of the post lockdown period most everyone went out and about as if covid was over and I did issue warnings that this would have consequences
I'm writing an article at this evening about whether employers can legally require employees to take a vaccine. I like them to be short and pithy but I'm bogged down in an analysis of whether anti-vaxx could be a "philosophical belief" under the Equality Act. I immediately said "no", its more akin to a non-protected political belief, but now I'm doubting myself because ethical veganism was held in January to be protected against discrimination - and both largely revolve around what you put in your body. I'll fudge that bit for the mo and move onto H&S.
While not an antivaxxer by any means I am in the 50% that wait category. Maybe because I grew up when thalidomide is a thing. I think someone could quite probably make a case that the accelerated testing on the vaccine gave them doubts about its safety. I believe the normal time to introduce a new vaccine is 7 years and a lot of that is addressing safety issues. As a layman on this I therefore assume that 7 years testing has a reason for it rather than just a number plucked out of thin air.
I would suggest a company could quite rightly say you can't come into the office without a vaccination but would be on stickier ground firing you if you can work from home just because you took a wait and see approach
Also on the ethical vegan thing is the vaccine not tested on animals?
I don't know if the vaccine is tested on animals but even if it were it would only be indirectly discriminatory and would therefore justifiable. It's only direct discrimination (e.g. "we're firing you because you're a woman/asian/gay/Catholic etc etc") that can't be justified - except for age discrimination where you can theoretically kick out oldies just because of age if you can show there is a need to make room for younger workers, but even that is difficult.
How will the company know its employees' vaccination status? (We mentioned this the other day in respect of airlines.) Is Nadhim Zahawi going to hand out certificates of vaccination? Will there be a central database created (with accompanying privacy issues)?
They can ask for medical records. Many contracts have a provision for that, the employee can object, but the objection may be a disciplinary. Some I have spoken to are also looking iinto getting supplies off the grey market.
It's certainly not looking good for them. They could be at three times the case numbers of the rest of the UK by mid December, with corresponding death numbers around New Year.
Labour might have just lost the Senedd election in May.
There are regular broadcasts from some of the English Labour posters on pb,com, reassuring us ignorant Welsh that Drakeford has the matter under control.
But -- I agree -- the data do seem to show that Drakeford has fucked up rather spectacularly this Autumn.
I have only seen one pro-Drakeford post on PB (I haven't really been looking though) and that was predictably from that infamous Corbynista, TSE.
Have you done your "big lockdown" shop for (my prediction) next Friday yet?
Drakeford was a disaster on health and education long before covid
Many PBTories seem to be getting quite excited at the prospect that we in Wales are all going to succumb to Covid because of Starmer/Drakeford's too early, too short, reckless lockdown, whereas in England you have all been saved by Johnson's genius.
The figures look patchy everywhere, but indeed seem to be on the rise in lockdown England's shopping paradise (Wales).
Quite frankly, I'd like us all to survive.
I am not the least excited and the fire break as a one off solution as promoted by Drakeford was a mistake
The people who deserve to be castigated are those who came up with the name 'circuit breaker' ** which gives the impression that it permanently stops the spread.
If I was Drakeford I would apologise and say that I followed scientific advice but it turned out the scientific advice was crap.
** Generally its always wise to be wary of things with catchy but stupid names.
Many PBTories seem to be getting quite excited at the prospect that we in Wales are all going to succumb to Covid because of Starmer/Drakeford's too early, too short, reckless lockdown, whereas in England you have all been saved by Johnson's genius.
The figures look patchy everywhere, but indeed seem to be on the rise in lockdown England's shopping paradise (Wales).
Quite frankly, I'd like us all to survive.
The problem wasn't the locking down (which wasn't early), but the opening up with few restrictions. Hopefully people are taking things into their own hands and are locking themselves down to some degree before Drakeford officially gets round to it.
Two weeks was far too short.
Cardiff, Newport, Cwmbran and McArthur Glen were rammed today with English and Welsh shoppers. Although I had lunch at Gavin Henson's pub today, which was very quiet.
Many PBTories seem to be getting quite excited at the prospect that we in Wales are all going to succumb to Covid because of Starmer/Drakeford's too early, too short, reckless lockdown, whereas in England you have all been saved by Johnson's genius.
The figures look patchy everywhere, but indeed seem to be on the rise in lockdown England's shopping paradise (Wales).
Quite frankly, I'd like us all to survive.
I am not the least excited and the fire break as a one off solution as promoted by Drakeford was a mistake
I wasn't referring to you at all BigG. Perish the thought. You wouldn't be encouraged to see the pandemic run riot in Wales to confirm Boris' wisdom.
Of course I would not.
My family and all my grandchildren are at risk here in Wales
Many PBTories seem to be getting quite excited at the prospect that we in Wales are all going to succumb to Covid because of Starmer/Drakeford's too early, too short, reckless lockdown, whereas in England you have all been saved by Johnson's genius.
The figures look patchy everywhere, but indeed seem to be on the rise in lockdown England's shopping paradise (Wales).
Quite frankly, I'd like us all to survive.
I am not the least excited and the fire break as a one off solution as promoted by Drakeford was a mistake
I wasn't referring to you at all BigG. Perish the thought. You wouldn't be encouraged to see the pandemic run riot in Wales to confirm Boris' wisdom.
Of course I would not.
My family and all my grandchildren are at risk here in Wales
Many PBTories seem to be getting quite excited at the prospect that we in Wales are all going to succumb to Covid because of Starmer/Drakeford's too early, too short, reckless lockdown, whereas in England you have all been saved by Johnson's genius.
The figures look patchy everywhere, but indeed seem to be on the rise in lockdown England's shopping paradise (Wales).
Quite frankly, I'd like us all to survive.
The problem wasn't the locking down (which wasn't early), but the opening up with few restrictions. Hopefully people are taking things into their own hands and are locking themselves down to some degree before Drakeford officially gets round to it.
Two weeks was far too short.
Cardiff, Newport, Cwmbran and McArthur Glen were rammed today with English and Welsh shoppers. Although I had lunch at Gavin Henson's pub today, which was very quiet.
How do you know these English people aren't now Wales residents? I believe a lot.of English people moved to South Wales corridor from places like Bristol because of cheaper housing and the bridge now being free.
It's certainly not looking good for them. They could be at three times the case numbers of the rest of the UK by mid December, with corresponding death numbers around New Year.
Labour might have just lost the Senedd election in May.
There are regular broadcasts from some of the English Labour posters on pb,com, reassuring us ignorant Welsh that Drakeford has the matter under control.
But -- I agree -- the data do seem to show that Drakeford has fucked up rather spectacularly this Autumn.
I have only seen one pro-Drakeford post on PB (I haven't really been looking though) and that was predictably from that infamous Corbynista, TSE.
Have you done your "big lockdown" shop for (my prediction) next Friday yet?
I am mainly supplied from a supermarket 70 odd miles away in Aberystwyth. The delivery is booked for next week, so I should be fine.
It is a particular joy to see them manoeuvre their delivery van down the remote, narrow, one-way track that leads to my isolated Plas. 😁
Another circuit breaker? I wonder if we will be hearing many politicians bringing that up again?
My wife and I already have cancelled our family Christmas with 10 of us and will spend it on our own
Our family completely agree and will also have Christmas on their own with their own children
And we decided this during the fire break as we had no confidence it would change the covid incidence
Well it did change the COVID incidence quite significantly to be fair. What was strange is quite the reported (and i'm not claiming to have followed it closely so may just be talking nonsense) extent of the relaxation afterwards. Groups of 15?
The mistake was three fold...two weeks isn't long enough to really squish down covid, especially when Wales have two areas of extreme rates. Two, you don't know from the data if it has really worked when you finish and in particular which areas you still have a problem. Three, the insistence of going from that to a nationwide relaxation that was far too easy.
If you notice Witty and Valance report the other day, a month of lockdown in England and they were still using phrases like the trend of the data INDICATES we have turned the corner. Even a month is pushing it to know if it has worked.
And of course as we pointed out at the time, the model the 2 week idea was based on, utter horseshit. Even by some of the crap modelling work done during this pandemic, it was up there with UoW one in terms of bollockness.
A problem with any sort of lockdown is that there will be a surge of activity beforehand so the lockdown has to counter the effects of that before it even begins to reduce the original infection rate.
A YouGov survey for The Times has found that 73 per cent of people are likely to take a vaccine if it becomes available on the NHS but only a third would like to be among the first to do so. Almost half said they would prefer to wait until someone else was given it before they took it.
Twenty-five per cent said they would rather take the Oxford-Astrazeneca vaccine compared with 6 per cent the Pfizer vaccine, 2 per cent the Moderna one and 29 per cent who expressed no preference.
Thanks for posting that - esp given you suggested fewer people would be prepared to take the Oxford-Astrazeneca vaccine the other day. IMHO there remains enough respect for the medical profession in this country that if a GP says he's taken it then patients will generally follow. I may be wrong though.
I would not be keen on being lumbered with the Oxford vaccine ...
Don’t they inject in the arm ?
Sure they will make it into a suppository for Scotland Nigel, a very big one.
If the MHRA (and, for belt and braces) either the FDA or the EMA are happy with the Oxford/Zeneca then I’ll have it. And ASAP. Otherwise I feel that there are are odd clouds hanging over it. Obviously a working vaccine is the answer and we all need it, as I said, ASAP. I don’t any Govt has covered itself with glory over coronavirus.
Many PBTories seem to be getting quite excited at the prospect that we in Wales are all going to succumb to Covid because of Starmer/Drakeford's too early, too short, reckless lockdown, whereas in England you have all been saved by Johnson's genius.
The figures look patchy everywhere, but indeed seem to be on the rise in lockdown England's shopping paradise (Wales).
Quite frankly, I'd like us all to survive.
The problem wasn't the locking down (which wasn't early), but the opening up with few restrictions. Hopefully people are taking things into their own hands and are locking themselves down to some degree before Drakeford officially gets round to it.
Two weeks was far too short.
Cardiff, Newport, Cwmbran and McArthur Glen were rammed today with English and Welsh shoppers. Although I had lunch at Gavin Henson's pub today, which was very quiet.
How do you know these English people aren't now Wales residents? I believe a lot.of English people moved to South Wales corridor from places like Bristol because of cheaper housing and the bridge now being free.
Many PBTories seem to be getting quite excited at the prospect that we in Wales are all going to succumb to Covid because of Starmer/Drakeford's too early, too short, reckless lockdown, whereas in England you have all been saved by Johnson's genius.
The figures look patchy everywhere, but indeed seem to be on the rise in lockdown England's shopping paradise (Wales).
Quite frankly, I'd like us all to survive.
The problem wasn't the locking down (which wasn't early), but the opening up with few restrictions. Hopefully people are taking things into their own hands and are locking themselves down to some degree before Drakeford officially gets round to it.
Two weeks was far too short.
Cardiff, Newport, Cwmbran and McArthur Glen were rammed today with English and Welsh shoppers. Although I had lunch at Gavin Henson's pub today, which was very quiet.
How do you know these English people aren't now Wales residents? I believe a lot.of English people moved to South Wales corridor from places like Bristol because of cheaper housing and the bridge now being free.
Well one or two of them came from England, because work contacts from the Bristol area were asking me on the SP for coming over the bridge.
You may well be right and they already live here, I suspect some (many) might not, but I couldn't possibly say that.
Another circuit breaker? I wonder if we will be hearing many politicians bringing that up again?
My wife and I already have cancelled our family Christmas with 10 of us and will spend it on our own
Our family completely agree and will also have Christmas on their own with their own children
And we decided this during the fire break as we had no confidence it would change the covid incidence
Well it did seem to (temporarily) change the COVID incidence quite significantly to be fair. What was strange is quite the reported (and i'm not claiming to have followed it closely so may just be talking nonsense) extent of the relaxation afterwards. Groups of 15?
I see no evidence it was a success and as I reported from day 1 of the post lockdown period most everyone went out and about as if covid was over and I did issue warnings that this would have consequences
The lockdown worked fine. The big downslope on the green line here reflects the lockdown with about 10 days delay. The problem is what happened afterwards.
It's certainly not looking good for them. They could be at three times the case numbers of the rest of the UK by mid December, with corresponding death numbers around New Year.
Labour might have just lost the Senedd election in May.
There are regular broadcasts from some of the English Labour posters on pb,com, reassuring us ignorant Welsh that Drakeford has the matter under control.
But -- I agree -- the data do seem to show that Drakeford has fucked up rather spectacularly this Autumn.
I have only seen one pro-Drakeford post on PB (I haven't really been looking though) and that was predictably from that infamous Corbynista, TSE.
Have you done your "big lockdown" shop for (my prediction) next Friday yet?
I am mainly supplied from a supermarket 70 odd miles away in Aberystwyth. The delivery is booked for next week, so I should be fine.
It is a particular joy to see them manoeuvre their delivery van down the remote, narrow, one-way track that leads to my isolated Plas. 😁
Good luck. I don't want to run down my no deal stash on a third 2020 all Wales Lockdown, but I fear it may come.
Another circuit breaker? I wonder if we will be hearing many politicians bringing that up again?
My wife and I already have cancelled our family Christmas with 10 of us and will spend it on our own
Our family completely agree and will also have Christmas on their own with their own children
And we decided this during the fire break as we had no confidence it would change the covid incidence
Well it did change the COVID incidence quite significantly to be fair. What was strange is quite the reported (and i'm not claiming to have followed it closely so may just be talking nonsense) extent of the relaxation afterwards. Groups of 15?
The mistake was three fold...two weeks isn't long enough to really squish down covid, especially when Wales have two areas of extreme rates. Two, you don't know from the data if it has really worked when you finish and in particular which areas you still have a problem. Three, the insistence of going from that to a nationwide relaxation that was far too easy.
If you notice Witty and Valance report the other day, a month of lockdown in England and they were still using phrases like the trend of the data INDICATES we have turned the corner. Even a month is pushing it to know if it has worked.
And of course as we pointed out at the time, the model the 2 week idea was based on, utter horseshit. Even by some of the crap modelling work done during this pandemic, it was up there with UoW one in terms of bollockness.
A problem with any sort of lockdown is that there will be a surge of activity beforehand so the lockdown has to counter the effects of that before it even begins to reduce the original infection rate.
And was the mistake the UK government made announcing lockdowns and also coming out of lockdown #1. You have to go quickly, to.stop people having their last bender and also going crazy when coming out
At least this time, we have gone back to tiers which are quite strict. Now the Christmas blow out, thats a different kettle of fish.
Many PBTories seem to be getting quite excited at the prospect that we in Wales are all going to succumb to Covid because of Starmer/Drakeford's too early, too short, reckless lockdown, whereas in England you have all been saved by Johnson's genius.
The figures look patchy everywhere, but indeed seem to be on the rise in lockdown England's shopping paradise (Wales).
Quite frankly, I'd like us all to survive.
I am not the least excited and the fire break as a one off solution as promoted by Drakeford was a mistake
The people who deserve to be castigated are those who came up with the name 'circuit breaker' ** which gives the impression that it permanently stops the spread.
If I was Drakeford I would apologise and say that I followed scientific advice but it turned out the scientific advice was crap.
** Generally its always wise to be wary of things with catchy but stupid names.
If the MHRA (and, for belt and braces) either the FDA or the EMA are happy with the Oxford/Zeneca then I’ll have it. And ASAP. Otherwise I feel that there are are odd clouds hanging over it. Obviously a working vaccine is the answer and we all need it, as I said, ASAP. I don’t any Govt has covered itself with glory over coronavirus.
Another circuit breaker? I wonder if we will be hearing many politicians bringing that up again?
My wife and I already have cancelled our family Christmas with 10 of us and will spend it on our own
Our family completely agree and will also have Christmas on their own with their own children
And we decided this during the fire break as we had no confidence it would change the covid incidence
Well it did seem to (temporarily) change the COVID incidence quite significantly to be fair. What was strange is quite the reported (and i'm not claiming to have followed it closely so may just be talking nonsense) extent of the relaxation afterwards. Groups of 15?
I see no evidence it was a success and as I reported from day 1 of the post lockdown period most everyone went out and about as if covid was over and I did issue warnings that this would have consequences
The lockdown worked fine. The big downslope on the green line here reflects the lockdown with about 10 days delay. The problem is what happened afterwards.
That isn't alone a definition of success. Of course numbers go down with any lockdown, but If your lockdown doesn't squash down infections far enough, it will quickly come back regardless of some restrictions post lockdown. Second, also concentration. We know Wales has two big hotspots, I don't believe 2.weeks was anywhere near long enough to tackle those two areas.
The fact Wales R is back to 1.4 already says they hadn't squashed it enough.
We have hotspots in England where months haven't been long enough.
A YouGov survey for The Times has found that 73 per cent of people are likely to take a vaccine if it becomes available on the NHS but only a third would like to be among the first to do so. Almost half said they would prefer to wait until someone else was given it before they took it.
Twenty-five per cent said they would rather take the Oxford-Astrazeneca vaccine compared with 6 per cent the Pfizer vaccine, 2 per cent the Moderna one and 29 per cent who expressed no preference.
Thanks for posting that - esp given you suggested fewer people would be prepared to take the Oxford-Astrazeneca vaccine the other day. IMHO there remains enough respect for the medical profession in this country that if a GP says he's taken it then patients will generally follow. I may be wrong though.
I would not be keen on being lumbered with the Oxford vaccine ...
Don’t they inject in the arm ?
Sure they will make it into a suppository for Scotland Nigel, a very big one.
Malc you’re taking me back to Practical Dispensing, in college 60+ years ago. Wonder how I’d have formulated that!
“As an industry, we feel we’ve done everything the government has asked of us and they’ve effectively thrown us under a bus. Either they don’t understand the industry or they’re trading us off against other parts of the economy, which would be OK if the financial support was there.”
Another circuit breaker? I wonder if we will be hearing many politicians bringing that up again?
My wife and I already have cancelled our family Christmas with 10 of us and will spend it on our own
Our family completely agree and will also have Christmas on their own with their own children
And we decided this during the fire break as we had no confidence it would change the covid incidence
Well it did seem to (temporarily) change the COVID incidence quite significantly to be fair. What was strange is quite the reported (and i'm not claiming to have followed it closely so may just be talking nonsense) extent of the relaxation afterwards. Groups of 15?
I see no evidence it was a success and as I reported from day 1 of the post lockdown period most everyone went out and about as if covid was over and I did issue warnings that this would have consequences
The lockdown worked fine. The big downslope on the green line here reflects the lockdown with about 10 days delay. The problem is what happened afterwards.
To be honest, post "fire break" it has been a free for all. Drakeford foolishly called the lockdown before the Conservative Party were on board with it, and failed to recant his promise that it would end after seventeen days.
Andrew Neil should like it here post fire-break. It's been just like Sweden!
A YouGov survey for The Times has found that 73 per cent of people are likely to take a vaccine if it becomes available on the NHS but only a third would like to be among the first to do so. Almost half said they would prefer to wait until someone else was given it before they took it.
Twenty-five per cent said they would rather take the Oxford-Astrazeneca vaccine compared with 6 per cent the Pfizer vaccine, 2 per cent the Moderna one and 29 per cent who expressed no preference.
Thanks for posting that - esp given you suggested fewer people would be prepared to take the Oxford-Astrazeneca vaccine the other day. IMHO there remains enough respect for the medical profession in this country that if a GP says he's taken it then patients will generally follow. I may be wrong though.
I would not be keen on being lumbered with the Oxford vaccine ...
Don’t they inject in the arm ?
Sure they will make it into a suppository for Scotland Nigel, a very big one.
Another circuit breaker? I wonder if we will be hearing many politicians bringing that up again?
My wife and I already have cancelled our family Christmas with 10 of us and will spend it on our own
Our family completely agree and will also have Christmas on their own with their own children
And we decided this during the fire break as we had no confidence it would change the covid incidence
Well it did seem to (temporarily) change the COVID incidence quite significantly to be fair. What was strange is quite the reported (and i'm not claiming to have followed it closely so may just be talking nonsense) extent of the relaxation afterwards. Groups of 15?
I see no evidence it was a success and as I reported from day 1 of the post lockdown period most everyone went out and about as if covid was over and I did issue warnings that this would have consequences
The lockdown worked fine. The big downslope on the green line here reflects the lockdown with about 10 days delay. The problem is what happened afterwards.
That isn't alone a definition of success. Of course numbers go down with any lockdown, but If your lockdown doesn't squash down infections far enough, it will quickly come back regardless of some restrictions post lockdown. Second, also concentration. We know Wales has two big hotspots, I don't believe 2.weeks was anywhere near long enough to tackle those two areas.
The fact Wales R is back to 1.4 already says they hadn't squashed it enough.
We have hotspots in England where months haven't been long enough.
Fair points.
(Btw, I've seen the 1.4 number as well, and wonder what that's based on? The case numbers don't look quite that bad. At a week's incubation period, R=1.4 implies a doubling time of two weeks, I think?)
A YouGov survey for The Times has found that 73 per cent of people are likely to take a vaccine if it becomes available on the NHS but only a third would like to be among the first to do so. Almost half said they would prefer to wait until someone else was given it before they took it.
Twenty-five per cent said they would rather take the Oxford-Astrazeneca vaccine compared with 6 per cent the Pfizer vaccine, 2 per cent the Moderna one and 29 per cent who expressed no preference.
Thanks for posting that - esp given you suggested fewer people would be prepared to take the Oxford-Astrazeneca vaccine the other day. IMHO there remains enough respect for the medical profession in this country that if a GP says he's taken it then patients will generally follow. I may be wrong though.
I would not be keen on being lumbered with the Oxford vaccine ...
Don’t they inject in the arm ?
Sure they will make it into a suppository for Scotland Nigel, a very big one.
A YouGov survey for The Times has found that 73 per cent of people are likely to take a vaccine if it becomes available on the NHS but only a third would like to be among the first to do so. Almost half said they would prefer to wait until someone else was given it before they took it.
Twenty-five per cent said they would rather take the Oxford-Astrazeneca vaccine compared with 6 per cent the Pfizer vaccine, 2 per cent the Moderna one and 29 per cent who expressed no preference.
Thanks for posting that - esp given you suggested fewer people would be prepared to take the Oxford-Astrazeneca vaccine the other day. IMHO there remains enough respect for the medical profession in this country that if a GP says he's taken it then patients will generally follow. I may be wrong though.
I would not be keen on being lumbered with the Oxford vaccine ...
Don’t they inject in the arm ?
Sure they will make it into a suppository for Scotland Nigel, a very big one.
Another circuit breaker? I wonder if we will be hearing many politicians bringing that up again?
My wife and I already have cancelled our family Christmas with 10 of us and will spend it on our own
Our family completely agree and will also have Christmas on their own with their own children
And we decided this during the fire break as we had no confidence it would change the covid incidence
Well it did seem to (temporarily) change the COVID incidence quite significantly to be fair. What was strange is quite the reported (and i'm not claiming to have followed it closely so may just be talking nonsense) extent of the relaxation afterwards. Groups of 15?
I see no evidence it was a success and as I reported from day 1 of the post lockdown period most everyone went out and about as if covid was over and I did issue warnings that this would have consequences
The lockdown worked fine. The big downslope on the green line here reflects the lockdown with about 10 days delay. The problem is what happened afterwards.
That isn't alone a definition of success. Of course numbers go down with any lockdown, but If your lockdown doesn't squash down infections far enough, it will quickly come back regardless of some restrictions post lockdown. Second, also concentration. We know Wales has two big hotspots, I don't believe 2.weeks was anywhere near long enough to tackle those two areas.
The fact Wales R is back to 1.4 already says they hadn't squashed it enough.
We have hotspots in England where months haven't been long enough.
Fair points.
(Btw, I've seen the 1.4 number as well, and wonder what that's based on? The case numbers don't look quite that bad. At a week's incubation period, R=1.4 implies a doubling time of two weeks, I think?)
Another circuit breaker? I wonder if we will be hearing many politicians bringing that up again?
My wife and I already have cancelled our family Christmas with 10 of us and will spend it on our own
Our family completely agree and will also have Christmas on their own with their own children
And we decided this during the fire break as we had no confidence it would change the covid incidence
Well it did seem to (temporarily) change the COVID incidence quite significantly to be fair. What was strange is quite the reported (and i'm not claiming to have followed it closely so may just be talking nonsense) extent of the relaxation afterwards. Groups of 15?
I see no evidence it was a success and as I reported from day 1 of the post lockdown period most everyone went out and about as if covid was over and I did issue warnings that this would have consequences
The lockdown worked fine. The big downslope on the green line here reflects the lockdown with about 10 days delay. The problem is what happened afterwards.
If England had locked down at the same time a lot of people wouldn't have caught the virus.
Another circuit breaker? I wonder if we will be hearing many politicians bringing that up again?
My wife and I already have cancelled our family Christmas with 10 of us and will spend it on our own
Our family completely agree and will also have Christmas on their own with their own children
And we decided this during the fire break as we had no confidence it would change the covid incidence
Well it did seem to (temporarily) change the COVID incidence quite significantly to be fair. What was strange is quite the reported (and i'm not claiming to have followed it closely so may just be talking nonsense) extent of the relaxation afterwards. Groups of 15?
I see no evidence it was a success and as I reported from day 1 of the post lockdown period most everyone went out and about as if covid was over and I did issue warnings that this would have consequences
The lockdown worked fine. The big downslope on the green line here reflects the lockdown with about 10 days delay. The problem is what happened afterwards.
That isn't alone a definition of success. Of course numbers go down with any lockdown, but If your lockdown doesn't squash down infections far enough, it will quickly come back regardless of some restrictions post lockdown. Second, also concentration. We know Wales has two big hotspots, I don't believe 2.weeks was anywhere near long enough to tackle those two areas.
The fact Wales R is back to 1.4 already says they hadn't squashed it enough.
We have hotspots in England where months haven't been long enough.
Fair points.
(Btw, I've seen the 1.4 number as well, and wonder what that's based on? The case numbers don't look quite that bad. At a week's incubation period, R=1.4 implies a doubling time of two weeks, I think?)
A YouGov survey for The Times has found that 73 per cent of people are likely to take a vaccine if it becomes available on the NHS but only a third would like to be among the first to do so. Almost half said they would prefer to wait until someone else was given it before they took it.
Twenty-five per cent said they would rather take the Oxford-Astrazeneca vaccine compared with 6 per cent the Pfizer vaccine, 2 per cent the Moderna one and 29 per cent who expressed no preference.
Thanks for posting that - esp given you suggested fewer people would be prepared to take the Oxford-Astrazeneca vaccine the other day. IMHO there remains enough respect for the medical profession in this country that if a GP says he's taken it then patients will generally follow. I may be wrong though.
I would not be keen on being lumbered with the Oxford vaccine ...
Don’t they inject in the arm ?
Sure they will make it into a suppository for Scotland Nigel, a very big one.
You wear those kilt thingies, what do you expect?
What is wrong with kilt thingies?
Nothing, I wear one myself, but they do invite the suppository approach in a way troosers don't.
Another circuit breaker? I wonder if we will be hearing many politicians bringing that up again?
My wife and I already have cancelled our family Christmas with 10 of us and will spend it on our own
Our family completely agree and will also have Christmas on their own with their own children
And we decided this during the fire break as we had no confidence it would change the covid incidence
Well it did change the COVID incidence quite significantly to be fair. What was strange is quite the reported (and i'm not claiming to have followed it closely so may just be talking nonsense) extent of the relaxation afterwards. Groups of 15?
The mistake was three fold...two weeks isn't long enough to really squish down covid, especially when Wales have two areas of extreme rates. Two, you don't know from the data if it has really worked when you finish and in particular which areas you still have a problem. Three, the insistence of going from that to a nationwide relaxation that was far too easy.
If you notice Witty and Valance report the other day, a month of lockdown in England and they were still using phrases like the trend of the data INDICATES we have turned the corner. Even a month is pushing it to know if it has worked.
And of course as we pointed out at the time, the model the 2 week idea was based on, utter horseshit. Even by some of the crap modelling work done during this pandemic, it was up there with UoW one in terms of bollockness.
A problem with any sort of lockdown is that there will be a surge of activity beforehand so the lockdown has to counter the effects of that before it even begins to reduce the original infection rate.
And was the mistake the UK government made announcing lockdowns and also coming out of lockdown #1. You have to go quickly, to.stop people having their last bender and also going crazy when coming out
At least this time, we have gone back to tiers which are quite strict. Now the Christmas blow out, thats a different kettle of fish.
Given the Christmas blowout is happening, an obvious thing to do would be to delay the schools going back by a week (it hardly affects children's education - they could just add a week somewhere else). Over Christmas people will largely be in close knit groups, and delay schools going back and any transfer of infection might stay that way.
Many PBTories seem to be getting quite excited at the prospect that we in Wales are all going to succumb to Covid because of Starmer/Drakeford's too early, too short, reckless lockdown, whereas in England you have all been saved by Johnson's genius.
The figures look patchy everywhere, but indeed seem to be on the rise in lockdown England's shopping paradise (Wales).
Quite frankly, I'd like us all to survive.
The problem wasn't the locking down (which wasn't early), but the opening up with few restrictions. Hopefully people are taking things into their own hands and are locking themselves down to some degree before Drakeford officially gets round to it.
Two weeks was far too short.
Cardiff, Newport, Cwmbran and McArthur Glen were rammed today with English and Welsh shoppers. Although I had lunch at Gavin Henson's pub today, which was very quiet.
How do you know these English people aren't now Wales residents? I believe a lot.of English people moved to South Wales corridor from places like Bristol because of cheaper housing and the bridge now being free.
Breaking News: South Wales turn away cars entering Cardiff, including a convoy of cars from Essex.
A YouGov survey for The Times has found that 73 per cent of people are likely to take a vaccine if it becomes available on the NHS but only a third would like to be among the first to do so. Almost half said they would prefer to wait until someone else was given it before they took it.
Twenty-five per cent said they would rather take the Oxford-Astrazeneca vaccine compared with 6 per cent the Pfizer vaccine, 2 per cent the Moderna one and 29 per cent who expressed no preference.
Thanks for posting that - esp given you suggested fewer people would be prepared to take the Oxford-Astrazeneca vaccine the other day. IMHO there remains enough respect for the medical profession in this country that if a GP says he's taken it then patients will generally follow. I may be wrong though.
I would not be keen on being lumbered with the Oxford vaccine ...
Don’t they inject in the arm ?
Sure they will make it into a suppository for Scotland Nigel, a very big one.
You wear those kilt thingies, what do you expect?
What is wrong with kilt thingies?
Nothing, I wear one myself, but they do invite the suppository approach in a way troosers don't.
A YouGov survey for The Times has found that 73 per cent of people are likely to take a vaccine if it becomes available on the NHS but only a third would like to be among the first to do so. Almost half said they would prefer to wait until someone else was given it before they took it.
Twenty-five per cent said they would rather take the Oxford-Astrazeneca vaccine compared with 6 per cent the Pfizer vaccine, 2 per cent the Moderna one and 29 per cent who expressed no preference.
Thanks for posting that - esp given you suggested fewer people would be prepared to take the Oxford-Astrazeneca vaccine the other day. IMHO there remains enough respect for the medical profession in this country that if a GP says he's taken it then patients will generally follow. I may be wrong though.
I would not be keen on being lumbered with the Oxford vaccine ...
Don’t they inject in the arm ?
Sure they will make it into a suppository for Scotland Nigel, a very big one.
You wear those kilt thingies, what do you expect?
What is wrong with kilt thingies?
Nothing, I wear one myself, but they do invite the suppository approach in a way troosers don't.
The bitter voice of experience?
I don't think I have ever annoyed people to the point they take to the suppository revenge approach
Many PBTories seem to be getting quite excited at the prospect that we in Wales are all going to succumb to Covid because of Starmer/Drakeford's too early, too short, reckless lockdown, whereas in England you have all been saved by Johnson's genius.
The figures look patchy everywhere, but indeed seem to be on the rise in lockdown England's shopping paradise (Wales).
Quite frankly, I'd like us all to survive.
The problem wasn't the locking down (which wasn't early), but the opening up with few restrictions. Hopefully people are taking things into their own hands and are locking themselves down to some degree before Drakeford officially gets round to it.
Two weeks was far too short.
Cardiff, Newport, Cwmbran and McArthur Glen were rammed today with English and Welsh shoppers. Although I had lunch at Gavin Henson's pub today, which was very quiet.
How do you know these English people aren't now Wales residents? I believe a lot.of English people moved to South Wales corridor from places like Bristol because of cheaper housing and the bridge now being free.
Breaking News: South Wales turn away cars entering Cardiff, including a convoy of cars from Essex.
Many PBTories seem to be getting quite excited at the prospect that we in Wales are all going to succumb to Covid because of Starmer/Drakeford's too early, too short, reckless lockdown, whereas in England you have all been saved by Johnson's genius.
The figures look patchy everywhere, but indeed seem to be on the rise in lockdown England's shopping paradise (Wales).
Quite frankly, I'd like us all to survive.
The problem wasn't the locking down (which wasn't early), but the opening up with few restrictions. Hopefully people are taking things into their own hands and are locking themselves down to some degree before Drakeford officially gets round to it.
Two weeks was far too short.
Cardiff, Newport, Cwmbran and McArthur Glen were rammed today with English and Welsh shoppers. Although I had lunch at Gavin Henson's pub today, which was very quiet.
How do you know these English people aren't now Wales residents? I believe a lot.of English people moved to South Wales corridor from places like Bristol because of cheaper housing and the bridge now being free.
Breaking News: South Wales turn away cars entering Cardiff, including a convoy of cars from Essex.
Cars from Essex? Was it HYUFD leading a dozen Hilux with heavy machine guns mounted on the back?
A YouGov survey for The Times has found that 73 per cent of people are likely to take a vaccine if it becomes available on the NHS but only a third would like to be among the first to do so. Almost half said they would prefer to wait until someone else was given it before they took it.
Twenty-five per cent said they would rather take the Oxford-Astrazeneca vaccine compared with 6 per cent the Pfizer vaccine, 2 per cent the Moderna one and 29 per cent who expressed no preference.
Thanks for posting that - esp given you suggested fewer people would be prepared to take the Oxford-Astrazeneca vaccine the other day. IMHO there remains enough respect for the medical profession in this country that if a GP says he's taken it then patients will generally follow. I may be wrong though.
I would not be keen on being lumbered with the Oxford vaccine ...
Don’t they inject in the arm ?
Sure they will make it into a suppository for Scotland Nigel, a very big one.
You wear those kilt thingies, what do you expect?
What is wrong with kilt thingies?
Nothing, I wear one myself, but they do invite the suppository approach in a way troosers don't.
A YouGov survey for The Times has found that 73 per cent of people are likely to take a vaccine if it becomes available on the NHS but only a third would like to be among the first to do so. Almost half said they would prefer to wait until someone else was given it before they took it.
Twenty-five per cent said they would rather take the Oxford-Astrazeneca vaccine compared with 6 per cent the Pfizer vaccine, 2 per cent the Moderna one and 29 per cent who expressed no preference.
Thanks for posting that - esp given you suggested fewer people would be prepared to take the Oxford-Astrazeneca vaccine the other day. IMHO there remains enough respect for the medical profession in this country that if a GP says he's taken it then patients will generally follow. I may be wrong though.
I would not be keen on being lumbered with the Oxford vaccine ...
Don’t they inject in the arm ?
Sure they will make it into a suppository for Scotland Nigel, a very big one.
You wear those kilt thingies, what do you expect?
What is wrong with kilt thingies?
Nothing, I wear one myself, but they do invite the suppository approach in a way troosers don't.
The bitter voice of experience?
I don't think I have ever annoyed people to the point they take to the suppository revenge approach
I never knew how annoying I was until I created miniature versions of myself and spent a lot of time with them.
Many PBTories seem to be getting quite excited at the prospect that we in Wales are all going to succumb to Covid because of Starmer/Drakeford's too early, too short, reckless lockdown, whereas in England you have all been saved by Johnson's genius.
The figures look patchy everywhere, but indeed seem to be on the rise in lockdown England's shopping paradise (Wales).
Quite frankly, I'd like us all to survive.
The problem wasn't the locking down (which wasn't early), but the opening up with few restrictions. Hopefully people are taking things into their own hands and are locking themselves down to some degree before Drakeford officially gets round to it.
Two weeks was far too short.
Cardiff, Newport, Cwmbran and McArthur Glen were rammed today with English and Welsh shoppers. Although I had lunch at Gavin Henson's pub today, which was very quiet.
How do you know these English people aren't now Wales residents? I believe a lot.of English people moved to South Wales corridor from places like Bristol because of cheaper housing and the bridge now being free.
Breaking News: South Wales turn away cars entering Cardiff, including a convoy of cars from Essex.
Cars from Essex? Was it HYUFD leading a dozen Hilux with heavy machine guns mounted on the back?
Many PBTories seem to be getting quite excited at the prospect that we in Wales are all going to succumb to Covid because of Starmer/Drakeford's too early, too short, reckless lockdown, whereas in England you have all been saved by Johnson's genius.
The figures look patchy everywhere, but indeed seem to be on the rise in lockdown England's shopping paradise (Wales).
Quite frankly, I'd like us all to survive.
The problem wasn't the locking down (which wasn't early), but the opening up with few restrictions. Hopefully people are taking things into their own hands and are locking themselves down to some degree before Drakeford officially gets round to it.
Two weeks was far too short.
Cardiff, Newport, Cwmbran and McArthur Glen were rammed today with English and Welsh shoppers. Although I had lunch at Gavin Henson's pub today, which was very quiet.
How do you know these English people aren't now Wales residents? I believe a lot.of English people moved to South Wales corridor from places like Bristol because of cheaper housing and the bridge now being free.
Breaking News: South Wales turn away cars entering Cardiff, including a convoy of cars from Essex.
Many PBTories seem to be getting quite excited at the prospect that we in Wales are all going to succumb to Covid because of Starmer/Drakeford's too early, too short, reckless lockdown, whereas in England you have all been saved by Johnson's genius.
The figures look patchy everywhere, but indeed seem to be on the rise in lockdown England's shopping paradise (Wales).
Quite frankly, I'd like us all to survive.
The problem wasn't the locking down (which wasn't early), but the opening up with few restrictions. Hopefully people are taking things into their own hands and are locking themselves down to some degree before Drakeford officially gets round to it.
Two weeks was far too short.
Cardiff, Newport, Cwmbran and McArthur Glen were rammed today with English and Welsh shoppers. Although I had lunch at Gavin Henson's pub today, which was very quiet.
How do you know these English people aren't now Wales residents? I believe a lot.of English people moved to South Wales corridor from places like Bristol because of cheaper housing and the bridge now being free.
Breaking News: South Wales turn away cars entering Cardiff, including a convoy of cars from Essex.
Many PBTories seem to be getting quite excited at the prospect that we in Wales are all going to succumb to Covid because of Starmer/Drakeford's too early, too short, reckless lockdown, whereas in England you have all been saved by Johnson's genius.
The figures look patchy everywhere, but indeed seem to be on the rise in lockdown England's shopping paradise (Wales).
Quite frankly, I'd like us all to survive.
The problem wasn't the locking down (which wasn't early), but the opening up with few restrictions. Hopefully people are taking things into their own hands and are locking themselves down to some degree before Drakeford officially gets round to it.
Two weeks was far too short.
Cardiff, Newport, Cwmbran and McArthur Glen were rammed today with English and Welsh shoppers. Although I had lunch at Gavin Henson's pub today, which was very quiet.
How do you know these English people aren't now Wales residents? I believe a lot.of English people moved to South Wales corridor from places like Bristol because of cheaper housing and the bridge now being free.
Breaking News: South Wales turn away cars entering Cardiff, including a convoy of cars from Essex.
Cars from Essex? Was it HYUFD leading a dozen Hilux with heavy machine guns mounted on the back?
En route to Edinburgh?
He's certainly been off channel for mostd of the last thread and this one.
A YouGov survey for The Times has found that 73 per cent of people are likely to take a vaccine if it becomes available on the NHS but only a third would like to be among the first to do so. Almost half said they would prefer to wait until someone else was given it before they took it.
Twenty-five per cent said they would rather take the Oxford-Astrazeneca vaccine compared with 6 per cent the Pfizer vaccine, 2 per cent the Moderna one and 29 per cent who expressed no preference.
Thanks for posting that - esp given you suggested fewer people would be prepared to take the Oxford-Astrazeneca vaccine the other day. IMHO there remains enough respect for the medical profession in this country that if a GP says he's taken it then patients will generally follow. I may be wrong though.
I would not be keen on being lumbered with the Oxford vaccine ...
Don’t they inject in the arm ?
Sure they will make it into a suppository for Scotland Nigel, a very big one.
You wear those kilt thingies, what do you expect?
What is wrong with kilt thingies?
Nothing, I wear one myself, but they do invite the suppository approach in a way troosers don't.
The bitter voice of experience?
I don't think I have ever annoyed people to the point they take to the suppository revenge approach
Not so much revenge but a weird loosening of propriety; some pals in kilts colliding with a drunken hen party was an eye opener.
FFS...u-turn already....and of course the way to keep.covid in check, consistent long term restrictions...but no we can't stick to that.
Nope, because the boorish backbench Tories would rather wank on about "auThORitARiANIsM" without actually knowing what that is. It'll pass because Labour won't want to be responsible for removing all of England's COVID restrictions, but I am genuinely angry at the shitheaddery of the Tory backbenches.
According to The Times it'll be diabetics who get priority over oldies for the vaccine.
Turns out being a diabetic does have a bonus.
Tranche six is the flu jab crew according to the green book, so I'll likely be getting it just after my Grandmother and just before my Dad which is interesting. Can't complain really.
Another circuit breaker? I wonder if we will be hearing many politicians bringing that up again?
My wife and I already have cancelled our family Christmas with 10 of us and will spend it on our own
Our family completely agree and will also have Christmas on their own with their own children
And we decided this during the fire break as we had no confidence it would change the covid incidence
Well it did change the COVID incidence quite significantly to be fair. What was strange is quite the reported (and i'm not claiming to have followed it closely so may just be talking nonsense) extent of the relaxation afterwards. Groups of 15?
The mistake was three fold...two weeks isn't long enough to really squish down covid, especially when Wales have two areas of extreme rates. Two, you don't know from the data if it has really worked when you finish and in particular which areas you still have a problem. Three, the insistence of going from that to a nationwide relaxation that was far too easy.
If you notice Witty and Valance report the other day, a month of lockdown in England and they were still using phrases like the trend of the data INDICATES we have turned the corner. Even a month is pushing it to know if it has worked.
And of course as we pointed out at the time, the model the 2 week idea was based on, utter horseshit. Even by some of the crap modelling work done during this pandemic, it was up there with UoW one in terms of bollockness.
A problem with any sort of lockdown is that there will be a surge of activity beforehand so the lockdown has to counter the effects of that before it even begins to reduce the original infection rate.
And was the mistake the UK government made announcing lockdowns and also coming out of lockdown #1. You have to go quickly, to.stop people having their last bender and also going crazy when coming out
At least this time, we have gone back to tiers which are quite strict. Now the Christmas blow out, thats a different kettle of fish.
Given the Christmas blowout is happening, an obvious thing to do would be to delay the schools going back by a week (it hardly affects children's education - they could just add a week somewhere else). Over Christmas people will largely be in close knit groups, and delay schools going back and any transfer of infection might stay that way.
Scotland is discussing starting the school holidays early (on the 18th) and finishing them late, to both reduce the chances of taking the virus to Christmas gatherings and passing it on afterwards.
A YouGov survey for The Times has found that 73 per cent of people are likely to take a vaccine if it becomes available on the NHS but only a third would like to be among the first to do so. Almost half said they would prefer to wait until someone else was given it before they took it.
Twenty-five per cent said they would rather take the Oxford-Astrazeneca vaccine compared with 6 per cent the Pfizer vaccine, 2 per cent the Moderna one and 29 per cent who expressed no preference.
Thanks for posting that - esp given you suggested fewer people would be prepared to take the Oxford-Astrazeneca vaccine the other day. IMHO there remains enough respect for the medical profession in this country that if a GP says he's taken it then patients will generally follow. I may be wrong though.
I would not be keen on being lumbered with the Oxford vaccine ...
Don’t they inject in the arm ?
Sure they will make it into a suppository for Scotland Nigel, a very big one.
You wear those kilt thingies, what do you expect?
What is wrong with kilt thingies?
Nothing, I wear one myself, but they do invite the suppository approach in a way troosers don't.
The bitter voice of experience?
I don't think I have ever annoyed people to the point they take to the suppository revenge approach
Not so much revenge but a weird loosening of propriety; some pals in kilts colliding with a drunken hen party was an eye opener.
'I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.'
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in Weegie rain.
Many PBTories seem to be getting quite excited at the prospect that we in Wales are all going to succumb to Covid because of Starmer/Drakeford's too early, too short, reckless lockdown, whereas in England you have all been saved by Johnson's genius.
The figures look patchy everywhere, but indeed seem to be on the rise in lockdown England's shopping paradise (Wales).
Quite frankly, I'd like us all to survive.
The problem wasn't the locking down (which wasn't early), but the opening up with few restrictions. Hopefully people are taking things into their own hands and are locking themselves down to some degree before Drakeford officially gets round to it.
Two weeks was far too short.
Cardiff, Newport, Cwmbran and McArthur Glen were rammed today with English and Welsh shoppers. Although I had lunch at Gavin Henson's pub today, which was very quiet.
How do you know these English people aren't now Wales residents? I believe a lot.of English people moved to South Wales corridor from places like Bristol because of cheaper housing and the bridge now being free.
Breaking News: South Wales turn away cars entering Cardiff, including a convoy of cars from Essex.
Cars from Essex? Was it HYUFD leading a dozen Hilux with heavy machine guns mounted on the back?
En route to Edinburgh?
He's certainly been off channel for mostd of the last thread and this one.
A YouGov survey for The Times has found that 73 per cent of people are likely to take a vaccine if it becomes available on the NHS but only a third would like to be among the first to do so. Almost half said they would prefer to wait until someone else was given it before they took it.
Twenty-five per cent said they would rather take the Oxford-Astrazeneca vaccine compared with 6 per cent the Pfizer vaccine, 2 per cent the Moderna one and 29 per cent who expressed no preference.
Thanks for posting that - esp given you suggested fewer people would be prepared to take the Oxford-Astrazeneca vaccine the other day. IMHO there remains enough respect for the medical profession in this country that if a GP says he's taken it then patients will generally follow. I may be wrong though.
I would not be keen on being lumbered with the Oxford vaccine ...
Don’t they inject in the arm ?
Sure they will make it into a suppository for Scotland Nigel, a very big one.
You wear those kilt thingies, what do you expect?
What is wrong with kilt thingies?
Nothing, I wear one myself, but they do invite the suppository approach in a way troosers don't.
The bitter voice of experience?
I don't think I have ever annoyed people to the point they take to the suppository revenge approach
I never knew how annoying I was until I created miniature versions of myself and spent a lot of time with them.
how do you know you arent a miniature version of yourself created by a bigger version of yourself?
Another circuit breaker? I wonder if we will be hearing many politicians bringing that up again?
My wife and I already have cancelled our family Christmas with 10 of us and will spend it on our own
Our family completely agree and will also have Christmas on their own with their own children
And we decided this during the fire break as we had no confidence it would change the covid incidence
Well it did change the COVID incidence quite significantly to be fair. What was strange is quite the reported (and i'm not claiming to have followed it closely so may just be talking nonsense) extent of the relaxation afterwards. Groups of 15?
The mistake was three fold...two weeks isn't long enough to really squish down covid, especially when Wales have two areas of extreme rates. Two, you don't know from the data if it has really worked when you finish and in particular which areas you still have a problem. Three, the insistence of going from that to a nationwide relaxation that was far too easy.
If you notice Witty and Valance report the other day, a month of lockdown in England and they were still using phrases like the trend of the data INDICATES we have turned the corner. Even a month is pushing it to know if it has worked.
And of course as we pointed out at the time, the model the 2 week idea was based on, utter horseshit. Even by some of the crap modelling work done during this pandemic, it was up there with UoW one in terms of bollockness.
A problem with any sort of lockdown is that there will be a surge of activity beforehand so the lockdown has to counter the effects of that before it even begins to reduce the original infection rate.
And was the mistake the UK government made announcing lockdowns and also coming out of lockdown #1. You have to go quickly, to.stop people having their last bender and also going crazy when coming out
At least this time, we have gone back to tiers which are quite strict. Now the Christmas blow out, thats a different kettle of fish.
Given the Christmas blowout is happening, an obvious thing to do would be to delay the schools going back by a week (it hardly affects children's education - they could just add a week somewhere else). Over Christmas people will largely be in close knit groups, and delay schools going back and any transfer of infection might stay that way.
Scotland is discussing starting the school holidays early (on the 18th) and finishing them late, to both reduce the chances of taking the virus to Christmas gatherings and passing it on afterwards.
Many PBTories seem to be getting quite excited at the prospect that we in Wales are all going to succumb to Covid because of Starmer/Drakeford's too early, too short, reckless lockdown, whereas in England you have all been saved by Johnson's genius.
The figures look patchy everywhere, but indeed seem to be on the rise in lockdown England's shopping paradise (Wales).
Quite frankly, I'd like us all to survive.
The problem wasn't the locking down (which wasn't early), but the opening up with few restrictions. Hopefully people are taking things into their own hands and are locking themselves down to some degree before Drakeford officially gets round to it.
Two weeks was far too short.
Cardiff, Newport, Cwmbran and McArthur Glen were rammed today with English and Welsh shoppers. Although I had lunch at Gavin Henson's pub today, which was very quiet.
How do you know these English people aren't now Wales residents? I believe a lot.of English people moved to South Wales corridor from places like Bristol because of cheaper housing and the bridge now being free.
Breaking News: South Wales turn away cars entering Cardiff, including a convoy of cars from Essex.
Cars from Essex? Was it HYUFD leading a dozen Hilux with heavy machine guns mounted on the back?
En route to Edinburgh?
He's certainly been off channel for mostd of the last thread and this one.
The invasion is underway?
Well, it's not like hgim to be so quiet.
That reminds me - I forgot to ask @DavidL if he is around, if he can point me to an explanation of the use of English law on treason and IIRC English judges and prosecutors for 'treason' committed in Scotland only in the 1790s and in the 1820 Rising, with trials in Edinburgh. I could never understand this, and the recent discussion of treason and sedition in Scotland has reminded me, so i f DavidL is in a kindly mood ...
A YouGov survey for The Times has found that 73 per cent of people are likely to take a vaccine if it becomes available on the NHS but only a third would like to be among the first to do so. Almost half said they would prefer to wait until someone else was given it before they took it.
Twenty-five per cent said they would rather take the Oxford-Astrazeneca vaccine compared with 6 per cent the Pfizer vaccine, 2 per cent the Moderna one and 29 per cent who expressed no preference.
Thanks for posting that - esp given you suggested fewer people would be prepared to take the Oxford-Astrazeneca vaccine the other day. IMHO there remains enough respect for the medical profession in this country that if a GP says he's taken it then patients will generally follow. I may be wrong though.
I would not be keen on being lumbered with the Oxford vaccine ...
Don’t they inject in the arm ?
Sure they will make it into a suppository for Scotland Nigel, a very big one.
You wear those kilt thingies, what do you expect?
What is wrong with kilt thingies?
Nothing, I wear one myself, but they do invite the suppository approach in a way troosers don't.
The bitter voice of experience?
I don't think I have ever annoyed people to the point they take to the suppository revenge approach
I never knew how annoying I was until I created miniature versions of myself and spent a lot of time with them.
how do you know you arent a miniature version of yourself created by a bigger version of yourself?
Now you've caused me yo have an existential crisis.
Another circuit breaker? I wonder if we will be hearing many politicians bringing that up again?
My wife and I already have cancelled our family Christmas with 10 of us and will spend it on our own
Our family completely agree and will also have Christmas on their own with their own children
And we decided this during the fire break as we had no confidence it would change the covid incidence
Well it did change the COVID incidence quite significantly to be fair. What was strange is quite the reported (and i'm not claiming to have followed it closely so may just be talking nonsense) extent of the relaxation afterwards. Groups of 15?
The mistake was three fold...two weeks isn't long enough to really squish down covid, especially when Wales have two areas of extreme rates. Two, you don't know from the data if it has really worked when you finish and in particular which areas you still have a problem. Three, the insistence of going from that to a nationwide relaxation that was far too easy.
If you notice Witty and Valance report the other day, a month of lockdown in England and they were still using phrases like the trend of the data INDICATES we have turned the corner. Even a month is pushing it to know if it has worked.
And of course as we pointed out at the time, the model the 2 week idea was based on, utter horseshit. Even by some of the crap modelling work done during this pandemic, it was up there with UoW one in terms of bollockness.
A problem with any sort of lockdown is that there will be a surge of activity beforehand so the lockdown has to counter the effects of that before it even begins to reduce the original infection rate.
And was the mistake the UK government made announcing lockdowns and also coming out of lockdown #1. You have to go quickly, to.stop people having their last bender and also going crazy when coming out
At least this time, we have gone back to tiers which are quite strict. Now the Christmas blow out, thats a different kettle of fish.
Given the Christmas blowout is happening, an obvious thing to do would be to delay the schools going back by a week (it hardly affects children's education - they could just add a week somewhere else). Over Christmas people will largely be in close knit groups, and delay schools going back and any transfer of infection might stay that way.
Scotland is discussing starting the school holidays early (on the 18th) and finishing them late, to both reduce the chances of taking the virus to Christmas gatherings and passing it on afterwards.
I read that earlier. I think it's a decent idea.
To quote Lord Foulkes: "They're doing it deliberately."
Many PBTories seem to be getting quite excited at the prospect that we in Wales are all going to succumb to Covid because of Starmer/Drakeford's too early, too short, reckless lockdown, whereas in England you have all been saved by Johnson's genius.
The figures look patchy everywhere, but indeed seem to be on the rise in lockdown England's shopping paradise (Wales).
Quite frankly, I'd like us all to survive.
The problem wasn't the locking down (which wasn't early), but the opening up with few restrictions. Hopefully people are taking things into their own hands and are locking themselves down to some degree before Drakeford officially gets round to it.
Two weeks was far too short.
Cardiff, Newport, Cwmbran and McArthur Glen were rammed today with English and Welsh shoppers. Although I had lunch at Gavin Henson's pub today, which was very quiet.
How do you know these English people aren't now Wales residents? I believe a lot.of English people moved to South Wales corridor from places like Bristol because of cheaper housing and the bridge now being free.
Breaking News: South Wales turn away cars entering Cardiff, including a convoy of cars from Essex.
Cars from Essex? Was it HYUFD leading a dozen Hilux with heavy machine guns mounted on the back?
Many PBTories seem to be getting quite excited at the prospect that we in Wales are all going to succumb to Covid because of Starmer/Drakeford's too early, too short, reckless lockdown, whereas in England you have all been saved by Johnson's genius.
The figures look patchy everywhere, but indeed seem to be on the rise in lockdown England's shopping paradise (Wales).
Quite frankly, I'd like us all to survive.
The problem wasn't the locking down (which wasn't early), but the opening up with few restrictions. Hopefully people are taking things into their own hands and are locking themselves down to some degree before Drakeford officially gets round to it.
Two weeks was far too short.
Cardiff, Newport, Cwmbran and McArthur Glen were rammed today with English and Welsh shoppers. Although I had lunch at Gavin Henson's pub today, which was very quiet.
How do you know these English people aren't now Wales residents? I believe a lot.of English people moved to South Wales corridor from places like Bristol because of cheaper housing and the bridge now being free.
Breaking News: South Wales turn away cars entering Cardiff, including a convoy of cars from Essex.
Cars from Essex? Was it HYUFD leading a dozen Hilux with heavy machine guns mounted on the back?
A YouGov survey for The Times has found that 73 per cent of people are likely to take a vaccine if it becomes available on the NHS but only a third would like to be among the first to do so. Almost half said they would prefer to wait until someone else was given it before they took it.
Twenty-five per cent said they would rather take the Oxford-Astrazeneca vaccine compared with 6 per cent the Pfizer vaccine, 2 per cent the Moderna one and 29 per cent who expressed no preference.
Thanks for posting that - esp given you suggested fewer people would be prepared to take the Oxford-Astrazeneca vaccine the other day. IMHO there remains enough respect for the medical profession in this country that if a GP says he's taken it then patients will generally follow. I may be wrong though.
I would not be keen on being lumbered with the Oxford vaccine ...
Don’t they inject in the arm ?
Sure they will make it into a suppository for Scotland Nigel, a very big one.
You wear those kilt thingies, what do you expect?
What is wrong with kilt thingies?
Nothing, I wear one myself, but they do invite the suppository approach in a way troosers don't.
The bitter voice of experience?
I don't think I have ever annoyed people to the point they take to the suppository revenge approach
I never knew how annoying I was until I created miniature versions of myself and spent a lot of time with them.
how do you know you arent a miniature version of yourself created by a bigger version of yourself?
Now you've caused me yo have an existential crisis.
Another circuit breaker? I wonder if we will be hearing many politicians bringing that up again?
My wife and I already have cancelled our family Christmas with 10 of us and will spend it on our own
Our family completely agree and will also have Christmas on their own with their own children
And we decided this during the fire break as we had no confidence it would change the covid incidence
Well it did change the COVID incidence quite significantly to be fair. What was strange is quite the reported (and i'm not claiming to have followed it closely so may just be talking nonsense) extent of the relaxation afterwards. Groups of 15?
The mistake was three fold...two weeks isn't long enough to really squish down covid, especially when Wales have two areas of extreme rates. Two, you don't know from the data if it has really worked when you finish and in particular which areas you still have a problem. Three, the insistence of going from that to a nationwide relaxation that was far too easy.
If you notice Witty and Valance report the other day, a month of lockdown in England and they were still using phrases like the trend of the data INDICATES we have turned the corner. Even a month is pushing it to know if it has worked.
And of course as we pointed out at the time, the model the 2 week idea was based on, utter horseshit. Even by some of the crap modelling work done during this pandemic, it was up there with UoW one in terms of bollockness.
A problem with any sort of lockdown is that there will be a surge of activity beforehand so the lockdown has to counter the effects of that before it even begins to reduce the original infection rate.
And was the mistake the UK government made announcing lockdowns and also coming out of lockdown #1. You have to go quickly, to.stop people having their last bender and also going crazy when coming out
At least this time, we have gone back to tiers which are quite strict. Now the Christmas blow out, thats a different kettle of fish.
Given the Christmas blowout is happening, an obvious thing to do would be to delay the schools going back by a week (it hardly affects children's education - they could just add a week somewhere else). Over Christmas people will largely be in close knit groups, and delay schools going back and any transfer of infection might stay that way.
Scotland is discussing starting the school holidays early (on the 18th) and finishing them late, to both reduce the chances of taking the virus to Christmas gatherings and passing it on afterwards.
I read that earlier. I think it's a decent idea.
At least one English academy trust suggested the early finish and were told not to by the Westminster government.
Westminster really doesn't want to admit that the pestilence is transmitted in schools.
If the MHRA (and, for belt and braces) either the FDA or the EMA are happy with the Oxford/Zeneca then I’ll have it. And ASAP. Otherwise I feel that there are are odd clouds hanging over it. Obviously a working vaccine is the answer and we all need it, as I said, ASAP. I don’t any Govt has covered itself with glory over coronavirus.
Do you not trust the MHRA alone or something?
TBH I don’t trust this Govt not to try to strongarm such organisations. Although in days gone past I knew members of MHRA committees etc and regarded them as incorruptible.
Many PBTories seem to be getting quite excited at the prospect that we in Wales are all going to succumb to Covid because of Starmer/Drakeford's too early, too short, reckless lockdown, whereas in England you have all been saved by Johnson's genius.
The figures look patchy everywhere, but indeed seem to be on the rise in lockdown England's shopping paradise (Wales).
Quite frankly, I'd like us all to survive.
The problem wasn't the locking down (which wasn't early), but the opening up with few restrictions. Hopefully people are taking things into their own hands and are locking themselves down to some degree before Drakeford officially gets round to it.
Two weeks was far too short.
Cardiff, Newport, Cwmbran and McArthur Glen were rammed today with English and Welsh shoppers. Although I had lunch at Gavin Henson's pub today, which was very quiet.
How do you know these English people aren't now Wales residents? I believe a lot.of English people moved to South Wales corridor from places like Bristol because of cheaper housing and the bridge now being free.
Breaking News: South Wales turn away cars entering Cardiff, including a convoy of cars from Essex.
Cars from Essex? Was it HYUFD leading a dozen Hilux with heavy machine guns mounted on the back?
En route to Edinburgh?
He risks a £30 level 3 travel restriction fine.
Another £30 for Treason and Sedition if he fails to overthrow Nippy, might be on the cards.
Another circuit breaker? I wonder if we will be hearing many politicians bringing that up again?
My wife and I already have cancelled our family Christmas with 10 of us and will spend it on our own
Our family completely agree and will also have Christmas on their own with their own children
And we decided this during the fire break as we had no confidence it would change the covid incidence
Well it did change the COVID incidence quite significantly to be fair. What was strange is quite the reported (and i'm not claiming to have followed it closely so may just be talking nonsense) extent of the relaxation afterwards. Groups of 15?
The mistake was three fold...two weeks isn't long enough to really squish down covid, especially when Wales have two areas of extreme rates. Two, you don't know from the data if it has really worked when you finish and in particular which areas you still have a problem. Three, the insistence of going from that to a nationwide relaxation that was far too easy.
If you notice Witty and Valance report the other day, a month of lockdown in England and they were still using phrases like the trend of the data INDICATES we have turned the corner. Even a month is pushing it to know if it has worked.
And of course as we pointed out at the time, the model the 2 week idea was based on, utter horseshit. Even by some of the crap modelling work done during this pandemic, it was up there with UoW one in terms of bollockness.
A problem with any sort of lockdown is that there will be a surge of activity beforehand so the lockdown has to counter the effects of that before it even begins to reduce the original infection rate.
And was the mistake the UK government made announcing lockdowns and also coming out of lockdown #1. You have to go quickly, to.stop people having their last bender and also going crazy when coming out
At least this time, we have gone back to tiers which are quite strict. Now the Christmas blow out, thats a different kettle of fish.
Given the Christmas blowout is happening, an obvious thing to do would be to delay the schools going back by a week (it hardly affects children's education - they could just add a week somewhere else). Over Christmas people will largely be in close knit groups, and delay schools going back and any transfer of infection might stay that way.
Scotland is discussing starting the school holidays early (on the 18th) and finishing them late, to both reduce the chances of taking the virus to Christmas gatherings and passing it on afterwards.
I read that earlier. I think it's a decent idea.
At least one English academy trust suggested the early finish and were told not to by the Westminster government.
Westminster really doesn't want to admit that the pestilence is transmitted in schools.
Probably not too much in primary schools, unless parents ignore distancing, but at least the older years in secondary schools must be a vector.
Comments
I take issue with calling it a big gamble. It was actually good governance (for once). A big gamble would have been to just rely on Oxford vaccine or to try and wait until announcements before placing orders.
I get this all the time. A client needs me to look at a simple settlement (formerly compromise) agreement on his or her exit from employment but my firm (and nearly all others) requires photo ID and proof of address from all new clients because, in large transactions, law firm client accounts are often used to launder money. Firms get into big trouble if they don't go through client due diligence. I accept that it's frustrating because, as I am sure was the case for you, no money was moving in or out of client account but the rules are rigedly enforced.
The wrong things but different.
Have you done your "big lockdown" shop for (my prediction) next Friday yet?
If you notice Witty and Valance report the other day, a month of lockdown in England and they were still using phrases like the trend of the data INDICATES we have turned the corner. Even a month is pushing it to know if it has worked.
And of course as we pointed out at the time, the model the 2 week idea was based on, utter horseshit. Even by some of the crap modelling work done during this pandemic, it was up there with UoW one in terms of bollockness.
If I was Drakeford I would apologise and say that I followed scientific advice but it turned out the scientific advice was crap.
** Generally its always wise to be wary of things with catchy but stupid names.
Cardiff, Newport, Cwmbran and McArthur Glen were rammed today with English and Welsh shoppers. Although I had lunch at Gavin Henson's pub today, which was very quiet.
My family and all my grandchildren are at risk here in Wales
It is a particular joy to see them manoeuvre their delivery van down the remote, narrow, one-way track that leads to my isolated Plas. 😁
https://twitter.com/thetimesscot/status/1332657332266930178
Obviously a working vaccine is the answer and we all need it, as I said, ASAP.
I don’t any Govt has covered itself with glory over coronavirus.
You may well be right and they already live here, I suspect some (many) might not, but I couldn't possibly say that.
At least this time, we have gone back to tiers which are quite strict. Now the Christmas blow out, thats a different kettle of fish.
The fact Wales R is back to 1.4 already says they hadn't squashed it enough.
We have hotspots in England where months haven't been long enough.
https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1332626328072425474?s=20
“As an industry, we feel we’ve done everything the government has asked of us and they’ve effectively thrown us under a bus. Either they don’t understand the industry or they’re trading us off against other parts of the economy, which would be OK if the financial support was there.”
Andrew Neil should like it here post fire-break. It's been just like Sweden!
But the broad scope of the tweet is right.
(Btw, I've seen the 1.4 number as well, and wonder what that's based on? The case numbers don't look quite that bad. At a week's incubation period, R=1.4 implies a doubling time of two weeks, I think?)
100 Tory MPs prepare to rebel against Tiers after admission that indoor socialising ban could last until EASTER
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8995941/Coronavirus-UK-Anti-lockdown-protestor-bursts-tears-police-arrest-him.html
But Bozo and Coco thought they knew better.
Joanna Cherry seems to represent the Sandinista wing of the SNP.
However, I would like to see Johnson grow a backbone and tell Steve Baker, Andrew Bridgen and Graham Brady to just **** off!
'I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.'
That reminds me - I forgot to ask @DavidL if he is around, if he can point me to an explanation of the use of English law on treason and IIRC English judges and prosecutors for 'treason' committed in Scotland only in the 1790s and in the 1820 Rising, with trials in Edinburgh. I could never understand this, and the recent discussion of treason and sedition in Scotland has reminded me, so i f DavidL is in a kindly mood ...
Westminster really doesn't want to admit that the pestilence is transmitted in schools.
Far too much kicking in that Welsh game, given that both sides have brilliant speedy backs