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From Ipsos-MORI: How the pandemic is changing everyday life – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited November 2020 in General
imageFrom Ipsos-MORI: How the pandemic is changing everyday life – politicalbetting.com

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  • stodgestodge Posts: 12,745
    Morning all :)

    Probably not first.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,624
    Apparently there has been a 59% drop in Thanksgiving travel in the US.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    11.5% Request Rate for Georgia Senate Election Mail ballots.

    The Presidential election was 25.5%
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Rather stretching the definition of "Rigging" here
    https://twitter.com/PrisonPlanet/status/1332280332268294147
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Alistair said:

    11.5% Request Rate for Georgia Senate Election Mail ballots.

    The Presidential election was 25.5%

    Going to lump on Purdue and Loeffler ?
  • Is Covishield exactly the same vaccine as the AZ Oxford one?
  • Alistair said:

    11.5% Request Rate for Georgia Senate Election Mail ballots.

    The Presidential election was 25.5%

    It's not the deadline yet, is it?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072

    Apparently there has been a 59% drop in Thanksgiving travel in the US.

    Isn't that just air travel?

    It doesn't tell the whole story because, so I've heard, people are simply driving long distances instead under the guise that it's "safer".
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    stjohn said:

    On the Oxford vaccine. My view is that if it is at least 60% effective at stopping people getting coronavirus infection and is 100% effective at preventing serious illness as a result of coronavirus infection, then that is a tremendous result and we should be getting on with using it as soon as possible. The half dose/full dose v full dose/full dose conundrum needs resolving but it would seem to be a mistake not to start using a safe and effective vaccine as soon as is feasibly possible.

    The article from "Wired" that criticised the Oxford vaccine had one sentence which is concerning. "Oxford-AstraZeneca reported only the results for certain subgroups of people within each one. (For perspective on this: The two subgroups chosen leave out perhaps half the people in the Brazilian trial.)" Is this true and if so is there a reassuring explanation for this? Can anyone here shed light on that part of the article? The sooner the Oxford trial data are published in The Lancet, or wherever, the better.

    From what I've read the results announced were preliminary, and only included data from before a month ago. The full dataset is being submitted to the MHRA and will be published.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718
    edited November 2020
    HYUFD said:
    The second choice figures will be interesting!

    (Edited after I checked the original post)
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,631
    FPT

    Pagan2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I love the way a discussion about changes in sexual mores and their possible consequences focuses on whether women should have sex and not at all on men’s responsibilities for the consequences of their actions.

    Some things never change it seems.

    It does indeed take two to tango. Men are just as responsible as women for broken homes and casual pregnancies.
    More responsible. 9 times out of 10 it's the man who's done a runner, leaving the woman to look after the kids.
    Statistics dont bear you out women are more commonly the instigators of divorce

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/the-third-wave/201705/who-initiates-divorce-more-often

    As to kids family courts are biassed towards giving custody of kids to the woman

    And while there are certainly men who abandon their kids after divorce there are also a lot of men who find themselves blocked from contact with their kids by an ex making it difficult. I know several that just gave up after years of custody battles which granted them access where the ex wife just ignored the court orders and the courts wouldn't impose sanctions
    My sister initiated divorce because of her husband's infidelity. She got custody of the kids because she was the one looking after the kids while her husband was playing around. I suspect that this scenario is not an uncommon one.
    The point remains its not true that 9 times out of 10 the man has done a runner

    As to infidelity

    A 2017 study found that 57% of males and 54% of females admitted to committing infidelity in one or more of their relationships [4].

    from source
    https://www.globalinvestigations.co.uk/news/infidelity-statistics-uk-infographic/#:~:text=The percentage of married women,General Social Survey [2].
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,777
    RobD said:

    stjohn said:

    On the Oxford vaccine. My view is that if it is at least 60% effective at stopping people getting coronavirus infection and is 100% effective at preventing serious illness as a result of coronavirus infection, then that is a tremendous result and we should be getting on with using it as soon as possible. The half dose/full dose v full dose/full dose conundrum needs resolving but it would seem to be a mistake not to start using a safe and effective vaccine as soon as is feasibly possible.

    The article from "Wired" that criticised the Oxford vaccine had one sentence which is concerning. "Oxford-AstraZeneca reported only the results for certain subgroups of people within each one. (For perspective on this: The two subgroups chosen leave out perhaps half the people in the Brazilian trial.)" Is this true and if so is there a reassuring explanation for this? Can anyone here shed light on that part of the article? The sooner the Oxford trial data are published in The Lancet, or wherever, the better.

    From what I've read the results announced were preliminary, and only included data from before a month ago. The full dataset is being submitted to the MHRA and will be published.
    Well that is a reassuring explanation. All seems very hopeful and positive to me.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    edited November 2020
    Pagan2 said:

    FPT

    Pagan2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I love the way a discussion about changes in sexual mores and their possible consequences focuses on whether women should have sex and not at all on men’s responsibilities for the consequences of their actions.

    Some things never change it seems.

    It does indeed take two to tango. Men are just as responsible as women for broken homes and casual pregnancies.
    More responsible. 9 times out of 10 it's the man who's done a runner, leaving the woman to look after the kids.
    Statistics dont bear you out women are more commonly the instigators of divorce

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/the-third-wave/201705/who-initiates-divorce-more-often

    As to kids family courts are biassed towards giving custody of kids to the woman

    And while there are certainly men who abandon their kids after divorce there are also a lot of men who find themselves blocked from contact with their kids by an ex making it difficult. I know several that just gave up after years of custody battles which granted them access where the ex wife just ignored the court orders and the courts wouldn't impose sanctions
    My sister initiated divorce because of her husband's infidelity. She got custody of the kids because she was the one looking after the kids while her husband was playing around. I suspect that this scenario is not an uncommon one.
    The point remains its not true that 9 times out of 10 the man has done a runner

    As to infidelity

    A 2017 study found that 57% of males and 54% of females admitted to committing infidelity in one or more of their relationships [4].

    from source
    https://www.globalinvestigations.co.uk/news/infidelity-statistics-uk-infographic/#:~:text=The percentage of married women,General Social Survey [2].
    It doesn't matter if it's the man or the woman who "initiates divorce" or "leaves" so long as both parties continue to uphold their parental responsibilities.
  • Ah, so it's the Unit for preserving the Union that's asking for flegs, a cunning plan!

    https://twitter.com/jamiedmaxwell/status/1332287398164779009?s=20
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    11.5% Request Rate for Georgia Senate Election Mail ballots.

    The Presidential election was 25.5%

    Going to lump on Purdue and Loeffler ?
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/11/23/perdue-loeffler-already-betrayed-voters-trust/

    Judas!

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,575
    Pulpstar said:

    Rather stretching the definition of "Rigging" here
    https://twitter.com/PrisonPlanet/status/1332280332268294147

    At least he had policies.
    What questions did Tucker ask Trump /
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072

    Ah, so it's the Unit for preserving the Union that's asking for flegs, a cunning plan!

    https://twitter.com/jamiedmaxwell/status/1332287398164779009?s=20

    It's not something to be bothered about. As we know, the EU putting flags on everything they funded made very little difference to opinion.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    I can certainly relate to these surveys. They ring true. I used to have 2 baths a day, now I only have one and that's at night. Used to wash my hair every 2 days, now it's once a week, on Saturday, ditto for shaving, used to be every couple of days, now just on Saturday. Saturday is when it all happens, hair washed, face shaved, one or two other things too which needn't trouble us. And an interesting knock on effect is that when I go out in the day I now always wear a cap - since hair a mess with no morning routine - whereas before I would hardly ever do that. Essentially I look a bit dodgy a lot of the time, and I do realize this, so I hope once I've been vaccinated I'll be able to shake off these bad Covid era habits and get back to what I once was - a preppy, fresh faced (and smelling) character who you'd love to run into.
  • I haven’t shaved since the lockdown began.

    Actually I haven’t shaved since July 1996...


  • It’s the antibiotic courses always being a week that raises my suspicions: how much testing of this has been done? Would some be better as five days or ten?

    Was 6 months for TB, and it made me pee pink once a day.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,631

    Pagan2 said:

    FPT

    Pagan2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I love the way a discussion about changes in sexual mores and their possible consequences focuses on whether women should have sex and not at all on men’s responsibilities for the consequences of their actions.

    Some things never change it seems.

    It does indeed take two to tango. Men are just as responsible as women for broken homes and casual pregnancies.
    More responsible. 9 times out of 10 it's the man who's done a runner, leaving the woman to look after the kids.
    Statistics dont bear you out women are more commonly the instigators of divorce

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/the-third-wave/201705/who-initiates-divorce-more-often

    As to kids family courts are biassed towards giving custody of kids to the woman

    And while there are certainly men who abandon their kids after divorce there are also a lot of men who find themselves blocked from contact with their kids by an ex making it difficult. I know several that just gave up after years of custody battles which granted them access where the ex wife just ignored the court orders and the courts wouldn't impose sanctions
    My sister initiated divorce because of her husband's infidelity. She got custody of the kids because she was the one looking after the kids while her husband was playing around. I suspect that this scenario is not an uncommon one.
    The point remains its not true that 9 times out of 10 the man has done a runner

    As to infidelity

    A 2017 study found that 57% of males and 54% of females admitted to committing infidelity in one or more of their relationships [4].

    from source
    https://www.globalinvestigations.co.uk/news/infidelity-statistics-uk-infographic/#:~:text=The percentage of married women,General Social Survey [2].
    It doesn't matter if it's the man or the woman who "initiates divorce" or "leaves" so long as they continue to uphold their parental responsibilities.
    Agreed and never claimed they shouldn't was counterpointing only living boys assertion that implied its mostly mens fault for marriage splits and they don't care about the kids which "doing a runner" implies. It certainly does happen but not in the quantity some would have you believe. I have seen first hand the misery caused to friends who never get to see their child because an ex obstructs it
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,575
    stjohn said:

    On the Oxford vaccine. My view is that if it is at least 60% effective at stopping people getting coronavirus infection and is 100% effective at preventing serious illness as a result of coronavirus infection, then that is a tremendous result and we should be getting on with using it as soon as possible. The half dose/full dose v full dose/full dose conundrum needs resolving but it would seem to be a mistake not to start using a safe and effective vaccine as soon as is feasibly possible.

    The article from "Wired" that criticised the Oxford vaccine had one sentence which is concerning. "Oxford-AstraZeneca reported only the results for certain subgroups of people within each one. (For perspective on this: The two subgroups chosen leave out perhaps half the people in the Brazilian trial.)" Is this true and if so is there a reassuring explanation for this? Can anyone here shed light on that part of the article? The sooner the Oxford trial data are published in The Lancet, or wherever, the better.

    No regulatory submission will leave out subgroups.
    I am not sure what the Wired article refers to, though.

    Apart from efficacy, the other issue is, of course, safety data.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    11.5% Request Rate for Georgia Senate Election Mail ballots.

    The Presidential election was 25.5%

    It's not the deadline yet, is it?
    Indeed not, still plenty more to come.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Roger said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    11.5% Request Rate for Georgia Senate Election Mail ballots.

    The Presidential election was 25.5%

    Going to lump on Purdue and Loeffler ?
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/11/23/perdue-loeffler-already-betrayed-voters-trust/

    Judas!

    Noone gives a toss about this stuff though. All about the (R) or (D) next to their name.
    Looking through the early mail requests I can see some reasons for Dem optimism - Dekalb leading the pack in terms of % request and a few for GOP optimism, high white request %.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    HYUFD said:
    Lib Dem surge confirmed.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,575
    RobD said:

    stjohn said:

    On the Oxford vaccine. My view is that if it is at least 60% effective at stopping people getting coronavirus infection and is 100% effective at preventing serious illness as a result of coronavirus infection, then that is a tremendous result and we should be getting on with using it as soon as possible. The half dose/full dose v full dose/full dose conundrum needs resolving but it would seem to be a mistake not to start using a safe and effective vaccine as soon as is feasibly possible.

    The article from "Wired" that criticised the Oxford vaccine had one sentence which is concerning. "Oxford-AstraZeneca reported only the results for certain subgroups of people within each one. (For perspective on this: The two subgroups chosen leave out perhaps half the people in the Brazilian trial.)" Is this true and if so is there a reassuring explanation for this? Can anyone here shed light on that part of the article? The sooner the Oxford trial data are published in The Lancet, or wherever, the better.

    From what I've read the results announced were preliminary, and only included data from before a month ago. The full dataset is being submitted to the MHRA and will be published.
    I think Nov 4th was the cutoff date at which the trial was unblinded ?
    The trial of course goes on, and data has continued to accrue.
  • Ah, so it's the Unit for preserving the Union that's asking for flegs, a cunning plan!

    https://twitter.com/jamiedmaxwell/status/1332287398164779009?s=20

    It's not something to be bothered about. As we know, the EU putting flags on everything they funded made very little difference to opinion.
    Who knows, it may have done in Scotland. I know correlation does not imply causation, but the EU still seems quite popular here, or at least to not inspire the same virulent hatred abroad in some parts south of Gretna.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    Nigelb said:

    RobD said:

    stjohn said:

    On the Oxford vaccine. My view is that if it is at least 60% effective at stopping people getting coronavirus infection and is 100% effective at preventing serious illness as a result of coronavirus infection, then that is a tremendous result and we should be getting on with using it as soon as possible. The half dose/full dose v full dose/full dose conundrum needs resolving but it would seem to be a mistake not to start using a safe and effective vaccine as soon as is feasibly possible.

    The article from "Wired" that criticised the Oxford vaccine had one sentence which is concerning. "Oxford-AstraZeneca reported only the results for certain subgroups of people within each one. (For perspective on this: The two subgroups chosen leave out perhaps half the people in the Brazilian trial.)" Is this true and if so is there a reassuring explanation for this? Can anyone here shed light on that part of the article? The sooner the Oxford trial data are published in The Lancet, or wherever, the better.

    From what I've read the results announced were preliminary, and only included data from before a month ago. The full dataset is being submitted to the MHRA and will be published.
    I think Nov 4th was the cutoff date at which the trial was unblinded ?
    The trial of course goes on, and data has continued to accrue.
    Thanks for clarifying. I knew it was some weeks ago, but couldn't remember for sure.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Pulpstar said:

    Roger said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    11.5% Request Rate for Georgia Senate Election Mail ballots.

    The Presidential election was 25.5%

    Going to lump on Purdue and Loeffler ?
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/11/23/perdue-loeffler-already-betrayed-voters-trust/

    Judas!

    Noone gives a toss about this stuff though. All about the (R) or (D) next to their name.
    Looking through the early mail requests I can see some reasons for Dem optimism - Dekalb leading the pack in terms of % request and a few for GOP optimism, high white request %.
    Just checking the regs and apparently you can request an absentee ballot up until the Friday before the election.

    New Year's Day.

    Lol
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    11.5% Request Rate for Georgia Senate Election Mail ballots.

    The Presidential election was 25.5%

    It's not the deadline yet, is it?
    Indeed not, still plenty more to come.
    Purdue and Loeffler are lucky the USA is so polarised by party - they'd be DOA if people paid attention to the candidates.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,087
    edited November 2020
    International lorry drivers tend to have cabs with beds in them.

    Should improve the conditions.

    When in Thanet...
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 3,867
    edited November 2020
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    FPT

    Pagan2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I love the way a discussion about changes in sexual mores and their possible consequences focuses on whether women should have sex and not at all on men’s responsibilities for the consequences of their actions.

    Some things never change it seems.

    It does indeed take two to tango. Men are just as responsible as women for broken homes and casual pregnancies.
    More responsible. 9 times out of 10 it's the man who's done a runner, leaving the woman to look after the kids.
    Statistics dont bear you out women are more commonly the instigators of divorce

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/the-third-wave/201705/who-initiates-divorce-more-often

    As to kids family courts are biassed towards giving custody of kids to the woman

    And while there are certainly men who abandon their kids after divorce there are also a lot of men who find themselves blocked from contact with their kids by an ex making it difficult. I know several that just gave up after years of custody battles which granted them access where the ex wife just ignored the court orders and the courts wouldn't impose sanctions
    My sister initiated divorce because of her husband's infidelity. She got custody of the kids because she was the one looking after the kids while her husband was playing around. I suspect that this scenario is not an uncommon one.
    The point remains its not true that 9 times out of 10 the man has done a runner

    As to infidelity

    A 2017 study found that 57% of males and 54% of females admitted to committing infidelity in one or more of their relationships [4].

    from source
    https://www.globalinvestigations.co.uk/news/infidelity-statistics-uk-infographic/#:~:text=The percentage of married women,General Social Survey [2].
    It doesn't matter if it's the man or the woman who "initiates divorce" or "leaves" so long as they continue to uphold their parental responsibilities.
    Agreed and never claimed they shouldn't was counterpointing only living boys assertion that implied its mostly mens fault for marriage splits and they don't care about the kids which "doing a runner" implies. It certainly does happen but not in the quantity some would have you believe. I have seen first hand the misery caused to friends who never get to see their child because an ex obstructs it
    The figures for marital infidelity from the site you quoted are 14.7% for women and around 22% for men.

    That's not of prime relevance with regard to custody of the children, though. The well-being of the kids is the guiding principle, and it is most typically the mother who is used to doing the day-to-day work of caring for the children.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    edited November 2020

    Ah, so it's the Unit for preserving the Union that's asking for flegs, a cunning plan!

    https://twitter.com/jamiedmaxwell/status/1332287398164779009?s=20

    It's not something to be bothered about. As we know, the EU putting flags on everything they funded made very little difference to opinion.
    Who knows, it may have done in Scotland. I know correlation does not imply causation, but the EU still seems quite popular here, or at least to not inspire the same virulent hatred abroad in some parts south of Gretna.
    Hey, I live north of Gretna, in England!
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 788

    Apparently there has been a 59% drop in Thanksgiving travel in the US.

    But with 41% of travel still happening it'll be interesting to see what impact this has over the next couple of weeks, as it's essentially going to look like a dry run for Christmas with us.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    I think like a lot of people I started out as Covid WFH = holiday. No shaving, shorts and a t-shirt, not really paying attention to work as much as I should have been, etc.

    That lasted about two weeks. After that the novelty wore off plus I realised my head was in a sub-optimal place for work. Now I shave every day, properly dressed every day, not a suit, but put on a shirt, always use video on my zooms/teams/webex calls. Feel much better for it.

    If you're retired, however, (large PB contingent) then no idea how it would work.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400
    edited November 2020
    Yes, I'm struggling to see the story here even if it was requested and even if it was felt unreasonable to do it. People, organisations and goverments put flags on things.

    Ah, so it's the Unit for preserving the Union that's asking for flegs, a cunning plan!

    https://twitter.com/jamiedmaxwell/status/1332287398164779009?s=20

    It's not something to be bothered about. As we know, the EU putting flags on everything they funded made very little difference to opinion.
    Who knows, it may have done in Scotland. I know correlation does not imply causation, but the EU still seems quite popular here, or at least to not inspire the same virulent hatred abroad in some parts south of Gretna.
    Hey, I live north of Gretna, in England!
    Madness! On this the USA has it right, nothing but completely horizontal or vertical lines wherever possible!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    edited November 2020

    HYUFD said:
    Lib Dem surge confirmed.
    More Unionist tactical voting as last week in Clackmannanshire (though this time on later preferences), Scottish Conservatives voting LD on second preferences enabled the LDs to take the seat from the SNP
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    edited November 2020
    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Roger said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    11.5% Request Rate for Georgia Senate Election Mail ballots.

    The Presidential election was 25.5%

    Going to lump on Purdue and Loeffler ?
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/11/23/perdue-loeffler-already-betrayed-voters-trust/

    Judas!

    Noone gives a toss about this stuff though. All about the (R) or (D) next to their name.
    Looking through the early mail requests I can see some reasons for Dem optimism - Dekalb leading the pack in terms of % request and a few for GOP optimism, high white request %.
    Just checking the regs and apparently you can request an absentee ballot up until the Friday before the election.

    New Year's Day.

    Lol
    I do worry about the Democrats traditionally awful low vote propensity. But could the decent 2018 performance (Which was actually better in Florida than everyone then thought as it turns out) actually be an effect of getting the HIGHER propensity suburban voters which may suit them in the GA runoffs.
    Trump turned out every redneck from their wood cabin in the general and it still wasn't enough to clear 50% for Purdue.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,087

    I haven’t shaved since the lockdown began.

    Actually I haven’t shaved since July 1996...

    I have noticed an increased occurrence of beards.

    Fortunately, not too many goaty beards.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    11.5% Request Rate for Georgia Senate Election Mail ballots.

    The Presidential election was 25.5%

    It's not the deadline yet, is it?
    Indeed not, still plenty more to come.
    Purdue and Loeffler are lucky the USA is so polarised by party - they'd be DOA if people paid attention to the candidates.
    I honestly couldn't bring myself to back Loeffler. Even if a video came out of Warnock summoning Satan that'd still be a no bet rather than putting money on Loeffler.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069
    kinabalu said:

    I can certainly relate to these surveys. They ring true. I used to have 2 baths a day, now I only have one and that's at night. Used to wash my hair every 2 days, now it's once a week, on Saturday, ditto for shaving, used to be every couple of days, now just on Saturday. Saturday is when it all happens, hair washed, face shaved, one or two other things too which needn't trouble us. And an interesting knock on effect is that when I go out in the day I now always wear a cap - since hair a mess with no morning routine - whereas before I would hardly ever do that. Essentially I look a bit dodgy a lot of the time, and I do realize this, so I hope once I've been vaccinated I'll be able to shake off these bad Covid era habits and get back to what I once was - a preppy, fresh faced (and smelling) character who you'd love to run into.

    Yes, I haven't worn a suit since March, indeed have been wearing casual clothes until changed into scrubs at work. I look forward to when I can return to sartorial splendor. I like to dress well, though it is pretty much exclusively women who comment on such things.

    I shower and wash my hair everyday and am clean shaven, not least because it is needed for wearing FFP3 masks.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400
    Pulpstar said:

    Rather stretching the definition of "Rigging" here
    https://twitter.com/PrisonPlanet/status/1332280332268294147

    Yes indeed. I know that gerrymandering has become a little broader than its original use in some quarters, but the threshold of rigging really needs to be narrower than that or every election will end up rigged.

    Oh, I see the plan now.
  • Ah, so it's the Unit for preserving the Union that's asking for flegs, a cunning plan!

    https://twitter.com/jamiedmaxwell/status/1332287398164779009?s=20

    It's not something to be bothered about. As we know, the EU putting flags on everything they funded made very little difference to opinion.
    Who knows, it may have done in Scotland. I know correlation does not imply causation, but the EU still seems quite popular here, or at least to not inspire the same virulent hatred abroad in some parts south of Gretna.
    Hey, I live north of Gretna, in England!
    I'm sure that's an enclave of EU equanimity :)
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 3,870
    I wonder how many independence supporters didn’t vote SNP through frustration with wishy washy Wishart and his lukewarm attitude to a referendum.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400
    edited November 2020
    I miss dressing more formally, frankly. Gets me in proper headspace. And I do still on occasion, but it's more just that homeworking in general messes with my flow, as my space for work and space for personal time have combined, when I like to keep things separate.

    I did try growing a lockdown beard, but it was an epic fail unfortunately.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400
    MattW said:

    I haven’t shaved since the lockdown began.

    Actually I haven’t shaved since July 1996...

    I have noticed an increased occurrence of beards.

    Fortunately, not too many goaty beards.
    Beards had come back into fashion over the last 5 years or so in any case, so at least people were more prepared.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    HYUFD said:
    You already told us about this around 10 posts prior.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    kle4 said:

    MattW said:

    I haven’t shaved since the lockdown began.

    Actually I haven’t shaved since July 1996...

    I have noticed an increased occurrence of beards.

    Fortunately, not too many goaty beards.
    Beards had come back into fashion over the last 5 years or so in any case, so at least people were more prepared.
    Been and gone I'm afraid. Clean shaven is back.
  • kle4 said:

    Yes, I'm struggling to see the story here even if it was requested and even if it was felt unreasonable to do it. People, organisations and goverments put flags on things.
    EU does it - absolutely fine!
    UK does it - disgraceful jingoistic nationalism!

    Bit like that story on Irish processed beef:
    EU - implements controls - to maintain food standards
    UK - implements (identical) controls - retaliation!
  • I wonder how many independence supporters didn’t vote SNP through frustration with wishy washy Wishart and his lukewarm attitude to a referendum.

    Pretty sure this guy would have stayed at home.

    https://twitter.com/BerthanPete/status/1331622590276898818?s=20
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    HYUFD said:
    You already told us about this around 10 posts prior.
    Given the LDs will be going on about this by election until Christmas that is just a minor repeat and well done them, fantastic result for Unionists as with the Clackmannanshire by election last week
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400

    kle4 said:

    MattW said:

    I haven’t shaved since the lockdown began.

    Actually I haven’t shaved since July 1996...

    I have noticed an increased occurrence of beards.

    Fortunately, not too many goaty beards.
    Beards had come back into fashion over the last 5 years or so in any case, so at least people were more prepared.
    Been and gone I'm afraid. Clean shaven is back.
    Whilst there are still premiership footballers with beards I consider it must still be 'in' to a degree. Go back 10 years and I'm not sure there were more than 1-2.

    A relief for rugby players though. As beards had been more common beforehand there I'm sure I noticed an escalation of even larger, wilder beards from more of them in retaliation.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    edited November 2020
    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    I can certainly relate to these surveys. They ring true. I used to have 2 baths a day, now I only have one and that's at night. Used to wash my hair every 2 days, now it's once a week, on Saturday, ditto for shaving, used to be every couple of days, now just on Saturday. Saturday is when it all happens, hair washed, face shaved, one or two other things too which needn't trouble us. And an interesting knock on effect is that when I go out in the day I now always wear a cap - since hair a mess with no morning routine - whereas before I would hardly ever do that. Essentially I look a bit dodgy a lot of the time, and I do realize this, so I hope once I've been vaccinated I'll be able to shake off these bad Covid era habits and get back to what I once was - a preppy, fresh faced (and smelling) character who you'd love to run into.

    Yes, I haven't worn a suit since March, indeed have been wearing casual clothes until changed into scrubs at work. I look forward to when I can return to sartorial splendor. I like to dress well, though it is pretty much exclusively women who comment on such things.

    I shower and wash my hair everyday and am clean shaven, not least because it is needed for wearing FFP3 masks.

    I have worn a suit and tie four times since March. Which is the number of times I have had dinner "out". Other than that I've been at home. It hadn't seemed strange previously but put like that it is a bit bonkers. Four times in nine months.

    But then I was one of the "Cheltenham 250,000" so that lasted a month or two for the purposes of external food and drink consumption.

    Edit: oh yes I spent a week in Turkey in July. So let's count that also.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400
    Sandpit said:

    DougSeal said:

    RH1992 said:

    RH1992 said:

    Stocky said:

    Roger said:

    If I was between 14 and 18 I would never forgive my parents generation for taking away the opportunity for me to live and work in any of 28 diverse and fascinating countries as easily as I can work in the UK for no reason other than not wanting them to be able to do the same over here.

    It's without merit. It's stark raving bonkers.

    That was the conversation I had pre-2016 with my EU-hating in laws.

    It genuinely - I mean genuinely - hadn`t occurred to them that restricting free movement unto the UK would mean that our free movement would be similarly restricted. Their attitudes had two clear strands 1) "why wouldn`t everyone welcome us Brits because we are awesome?" and 2) "I don`t care because I don`t want to visit the EU anyway".

    I suppose that is what is meant by British exceptionalism.
    1 is essentially true. Most popular nations for Britons emigrate to already include nations that require visas anyway.

    2 is irrelevant. Nobody requires a visa for visiting from Britons nor will they post Brexit. We won't require a visa for Europeans to visit either.
    While I'm in favour of free movement and have always been a remainer, it always seems tin eared when the FBPE Twitter lot bang on about free movement so loudly. It makes it seem like the borders are about to be shut on us forever.

    I agree that there's definitely going to be some added hurdles for the minority that go to study/work/live in Europe and maybe some teething problems. However, considering many Brits go to study/work/live in non-EU countries every year without incident, I just can't really see why this is such an issue for remainerland considering the small number of people this affects.
    I think it's a psychological feeling of opportunities being closed off and boundaries erected. Personally, it was never likely that I would move to an EU country for work, or to retire (although my grandparents, hardworking Tory voters of reasonable means, retired to Spain). But I liked the idea that I could.
    My kids are all learning German, it makes me very angry that it will be much harder for them to move there to work or study, although of course it will still be possible with enough extra paperwork/money. I have friends who have a place in Greece, they used to come and go as they pleased, spend months there at a time without a thought. I don't think that will be possible now, without extra paperwork. My brother's partner is French, they met at Uni in Scotland, she got a job there and has lived there most of her adult life. That may not have been possible under the forthcoming rules. I have two schoolfriends married to Spaniards. Those relationships may well have been impossible without freedom of movement. I could go on.
    For many people I know, freedom of movement meant something tangible, it opened up opportunities for them, enabled them to live the life they wanted to. Freedom. It's a beautiful word. Its removal is a tragedy for many people.
    I actually agree with you. I am learning German myself, but that's also a list of personal experiences and I can throw many of those back the other way.

    Looking at those for whom a holiday is often a big financial stretch, let alone travelling around Europe for months such as many of my extended family, they see people better off than them go on holiday and take advantage of free movement, and in return for that they see unfamiliar faces in their town doing jobs while their lives don't improve (rightly or wrongly).

    Hardcore Europhiles banging on about cheaper holidays and study abroad while small town Britain sees demographics changing before their eyes is not a vote winner, no matter how much I agree with freedom of movement.
    The worst one I had was a discussion in the pub after work in about 2014 when we were discussing the Rochester by-election and the upward march of UKIP and a colleague in the banking team said "don't these people know what will happen to our passporting rights!". I am sure that banging on about the inconveience to the City to the residents of Mansfield and Thanet would have swung it right our way.
    The one that made me groan was a factory owner on Radio 4 (I think it was) declaring "A labour shortage would mean wages would rise!"

    The way it was said, the accent and the tone. The VictorianMineOwner vibe was very strong.
    That was also Stuart Rose on the first day of the Remain campaign. He was supposed to be leading said campaign, and was immediately dropped for saying the worst thing about Brexit would be wages rising for the low paid. His commendable honesty generated a million new Leave votes overnight.
    Frankly I thought both campaigns did a pretty crap job, and I have a general view that often the people leading a campaign are some of the worst at doing so effectively (whilst making the case for their opponents unintentionally). Leave had simpler messaging though and, I think, the momentum, and that won through despite the campains.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400

    I wonder how many independence supporters didn’t vote SNP through frustration with wishy washy Wishart and his lukewarm attitude to a referendum.

    Pretty sure this guy would have stayed at home.

    https://twitter.com/BerthanPete/status/1331622590276898818?s=20
    Not that I'd mind people liking SIndy so much they counterintuitively decide not to vote for Sindy candidates, but it feels like it'd be a hard sell to most.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    TOPPING said:

    I think like a lot of people I started out as Covid WFH = holiday. No shaving, shorts and a t-shirt, not really paying attention to work as much as I should have been, etc.

    That lasted about two weeks. After that the novelty wore off plus I realised my head was in a sub-optimal place for work. Now I shave every day, properly dressed every day, not a suit, but put on a shirt, always use video on my zooms/teams/webex calls. Feel much better for it.

    If you're retired, however, (large PB contingent) then no idea how it would work.

    That's the way it should be. Hats off. Literally, because with your hair sorted you don't have to wear one.
  • kle4 said:

    Yes, I'm struggling to see the story here even if it was requested and even if it was felt unreasonable to do it. People, organisations and goverments put flags on things.
    EU does it - absolutely fine!
    UK does it - disgraceful jingoistic nationalism!

    Bit like that story on Irish processed beef:
    EU - implements controls - to maintain food standards
    UK - implements (identical) controls - retaliation!
    Does the EU have a unit for the preservation of the EU that asks that the EU flag goes on stuff to fight off the vile separatists? Will EU vaccines be beflagged?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,837
    On topic. Wasn't one of the effects of the Black Death the disappearance of mandatory caste based uniforms?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    I think like a lot of people I started out as Covid WFH = holiday. No shaving, shorts and a t-shirt, not really paying attention to work as much as I should have been, etc.

    That lasted about two weeks. After that the novelty wore off plus I realised my head was in a sub-optimal place for work. Now I shave every day, properly dressed every day, not a suit, but put on a shirt, always use video on my zooms/teams/webex calls. Feel much better for it.

    If you're retired, however, (large PB contingent) then no idea how it would work.

    That's the way it should be. Hats off. Literally, because with your hair sorted you don't have to wear one.
    I get the hair thing but I'm not 100% sure you should be wearing any kind of head covering in London after age 28yrs.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,343
    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    DougSeal said:

    RH1992 said:

    RH1992 said:

    Stocky said:

    Roger said:

    If I was between 14 and 18 I would never forgive my parents generation for taking away the opportunity for me to live and work in any of 28 diverse and fascinating countries as easily as I can work in the UK for no reason other than not wanting them to be able to do the same over here.

    It's without merit. It's stark raving bonkers.

    That was the conversation I had pre-2016 with my EU-hating in laws.

    It genuinely - I mean genuinely - hadn`t occurred to them that restricting free movement unto the UK would mean that our free movement would be similarly restricted. Their attitudes had two clear strands 1) "why wouldn`t everyone welcome us Brits because we are awesome?" and 2) "I don`t care because I don`t want to visit the EU anyway".

    I suppose that is what is meant by British exceptionalism.
    1 is essentially true. Most popular nations for Britons emigrate to already include nations that require visas anyway.

    2 is irrelevant. Nobody requires a visa for visiting from Britons nor will they post Brexit. We won't require a visa for Europeans to visit either.
    While I'm in favour of free movement and have always been a remainer, it always seems tin eared when the FBPE Twitter lot bang on about free movement so loudly. It makes it seem like the borders are about to be shut on us forever.

    I agree that there's definitely going to be some added hurdles for the minority that go to study/work/live in Europe and maybe some teething problems. However, considering many Brits go to study/work/live in non-EU countries every year without incident, I just can't really see why this is such an issue for remainerland considering the small number of people this affects.
    I think it's a psychological feeling of opportunities being closed off and boundaries erected. Personally, it was never likely that I would move to an EU country for work, or to retire (although my grandparents, hardworking Tory voters of reasonable means, retired to Spain). But I liked the idea that I could.
    My kids are all learning German, it makes me very angry that it will be much harder for them to move there to work or study, although of course it will still be possible with enough extra paperwork/money. I have friends who have a place in Greece, they used to come and go as they pleased, spend months there at a time without a thought. I don't think that will be possible now, without extra paperwork. My brother's partner is French, they met at Uni in Scotland, she got a job there and has lived there most of her adult life. That may not have been possible under the forthcoming rules. I have two schoolfriends married to Spaniards. Those relationships may well have been impossible without freedom of movement. I could go on.
    For many people I know, freedom of movement meant something tangible, it opened up opportunities for them, enabled them to live the life they wanted to. Freedom. It's a beautiful word. Its removal is a tragedy for many people.
    I actually agree with you. I am learning German myself, but that's also a list of personal experiences and I can throw many of those back the other way.

    Looking at those for whom a holiday is often a big financial stretch, let alone travelling around Europe for months such as many of my extended family, they see people better off than them go on holiday and take advantage of free movement, and in return for that they see unfamiliar faces in their town doing jobs while their lives don't improve (rightly or wrongly).

    Hardcore Europhiles banging on about cheaper holidays and study abroad while small town Britain sees demographics changing before their eyes is not a vote winner, no matter how much I agree with freedom of movement.
    The worst one I had was a discussion in the pub after work in about 2014 when we were discussing the Rochester by-election and the upward march of UKIP and a colleague in the banking team said "don't these people know what will happen to our passporting rights!". I am sure that banging on about the inconveience to the City to the residents of Mansfield and Thanet would have swung it right our way.
    The one that made me groan was a factory owner on Radio 4 (I think it was) declaring "A labour shortage would mean wages would rise!"

    The way it was said, the accent and the tone. The VictorianMineOwner vibe was very strong.
    That was also Stuart Rose on the first day of the Remain campaign. He was supposed to be leading said campaign, and was immediately dropped for saying the worst thing about Brexit would be wages rising for the low paid. His commendable honesty generated a million new Leave votes overnight.
    Frankly I thought both campaigns did a pretty crap job, and I have a general view that often the people leading a campaign are some of the worst at doing so effectively (whilst making the case for their opponents unintentionally). Leave had simpler messaging though and, I think, the momentum, and that won through despite the campains.
    Considering that the Remain side had 45 years of perpetual power to both implement and prove the overwhelming merits of belonging to the EU their campaign was not very good to say the least.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited November 2020
    Nigelb said:

    stjohn said:

    On the Oxford vaccine. My view is that if it is at least 60% effective at stopping people getting coronavirus infection and is 100% effective at preventing serious illness as a result of coronavirus infection, then that is a tremendous result and we should be getting on with using it as soon as possible. The half dose/full dose v full dose/full dose conundrum needs resolving but it would seem to be a mistake not to start using a safe and effective vaccine as soon as is feasibly possible.

    The article from "Wired" that criticised the Oxford vaccine had one sentence which is concerning. "Oxford-AstraZeneca reported only the results for certain subgroups of people within each one. (For perspective on this: The two subgroups chosen leave out perhaps half the people in the Brazilian trial.)" Is this true and if so is there a reassuring explanation for this? Can anyone here shed light on that part of the article? The sooner the Oxford trial data are published in The Lancet, or wherever, the better.

    No regulatory submission will leave out subgroups.
    I am not sure what the Wired article refers to, though.

    Apart from efficacy, the other issue is, of course, safety data.
    AZ was running trials in UK, Brazil, South Africa and America. I think the author of the Wired piece was claiming that only info from the UK and Brazilian trials were reported in the press release.

    I linked to a piece last night that reported Oxford will announce more data next week.
  • kle4 said:

    Yes, I'm struggling to see the story here even if it was requested and even if it was felt unreasonable to do it. People, organisations and goverments put flags on things.
    EU does it - absolutely fine!
    UK does it - disgraceful jingoistic nationalism!

    Bit like that story on Irish processed beef:
    EU - implements controls - to maintain food standards
    UK - implements (identical) controls - retaliation!
    Does the EU have a unit for the preservation of the EU that asks that the EU flag goes on stuff to fight off the vile separatists? Will EU vaccines be beflagged?
    Are there any EU vaccines?

    The EU flag goes on EU funded projects.

    The Scottish government is happy to plaster Saltires over things
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400

    kle4 said:

    Yes, I'm struggling to see the story here even if it was requested and even if it was felt unreasonable to do it. People, organisations and goverments put flags on things.
    EU does it - absolutely fine!
    UK does it - disgraceful jingoistic nationalism!

    Bit like that story on Irish processed beef:
    EU - implements controls - to maintain food standards
    UK - implements (identical) controls - retaliation!
    Does the EU have a unit for the preservation of the EU that asks that the EU flag goes on stuff to fight off the vile separatists? Will EU vaccines be beflagged?
    On the former, well, kind of, doesn't it? It wants to promote the things it does to increase support for it and to head off discontent. Nothing wrong with that, I don't think there's a problem with institutions or governments wherever they are doing that, and whether there's an actual unit behind such proposals or not seems pretty irrelevant.

    On the second point, it might not have been a reasonable request, but an argument about which things its ok to put flags on and which it is not is a highly semantic one, and trivial rather than a matter of outrage. I honestly doubt there is that much outrage about this appareny vaccine flag idea either, even if its not considered a good idea.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    kle4 said:

    I miss dressing more formally, frankly. Gets me in proper headspace. And I do still on occasion, but it's more just that homeworking in general messes with my flow, as my space for work and space for personal time have combined, when I like to keep things separate.

    I did try growing a lockdown beard, but it was an epic fail unfortunately.

    Suits some men but it's commendable when somebody realizes they are not of that number and does not try to push the envelope.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    I think like a lot of people I started out as Covid WFH = holiday. No shaving, shorts and a t-shirt, not really paying attention to work as much as I should have been, etc.

    That lasted about two weeks. After that the novelty wore off plus I realised my head was in a sub-optimal place for work. Now I shave every day, properly dressed every day, not a suit, but put on a shirt, always use video on my zooms/teams/webex calls. Feel much better for it.

    If you're retired, however, (large PB contingent) then no idea how it would work.

    That's the way it should be. Hats off. Literally, because with your hair sorted you don't have to wear one.
    I get the hair thing but I'm not 100% sure you should be wearing any kind of head covering in London after age 28yrs.
    Hats are making a comeback! Not much of one, but I see more people than just myself wearing hats in the last few years.

    Type of hat is pretty vital though.
  • kle4 said:

    Yes, I'm struggling to see the story here even if it was requested and even if it was felt unreasonable to do it. People, organisations and goverments put flags on things.
    EU does it - absolutely fine!
    UK does it - disgraceful jingoistic nationalism!

    Bit like that story on Irish processed beef:
    EU - implements controls - to maintain food standards
    UK - implements (identical) controls - retaliation!
    Brexit has driven some people so.mad that the sight of the Britsh flag on something has them lose their shit....and as pointed out completely blind to the fact it is fairly standard and something the EU does when they fund projects.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400
    edited November 2020
    Apparently the Utah monolith story is still going.

    When officials in Utah on Monday revealed they had found a shimmering, metal structure deep in the Red Rock desert, they refused to say exactly where.

    They hoped that would be enough to deter amateur adventurers from setting off to find it, risking getting dangerously lost in the process.

    But there was little chance that people would abide by this advice. By Wednesday, pictures were emerging on Instagram of people triumphantly posing with the monolith, eager to show the world that they had got there first - even if the wider mystery of why it is there remains unsolved.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55071058

    Conceptual artists are going to really confuse the future remants of humanity after they seek to rebuild after the ecological catastrophe and come across such things
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    Local authority elections are usually just local and you can't rule out, well, local factors, but it is not immediately obvious to me in the 2 most recent by elections that the surge we are apparently seeing in support for the SNP in the polls is being reflected in actual results.

    There is also some evidence that the raising of the temperature on Indyref 2 (#voteharder) is focusing the minds of some unionists resulting in an increasing efficiency in the Unionist vote. May may prove to be not quite as depressing as I feared.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    I can certainly relate to these surveys. They ring true. I used to have 2 baths a day, now I only have one and that's at night. Used to wash my hair every 2 days, now it's once a week, on Saturday, ditto for shaving, used to be every couple of days, now just on Saturday. Saturday is when it all happens, hair washed, face shaved, one or two other things too which needn't trouble us. And an interesting knock on effect is that when I go out in the day I now always wear a cap - since hair a mess with no morning routine - whereas before I would hardly ever do that. Essentially I look a bit dodgy a lot of the time, and I do realize this, so I hope once I've been vaccinated I'll be able to shake off these bad Covid era habits and get back to what I once was - a preppy, fresh faced (and smelling) character who you'd love to run into.

    Yes, I haven't worn a suit since March, indeed have been wearing casual clothes until changed into scrubs at work. I look forward to when I can return to sartorial splendor. I like to dress well, though it is pretty much exclusively women who comment on such things.

    I shower and wash my hair everyday and am clean shaven, not least because it is needed for wearing FFP3 masks.
    I think it's true that letting small things slide can over time jeopardize the bigger ones. In fact I need to buck up.

    Have you managed to dodge your wife's corona btw?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 9,653
    kinabalu said:

    I can certainly relate to these surveys. They ring true. I used to have 2 baths a day, now I only have one and that's at night. Used to wash my hair every 2 days, now it's once a week, on Saturday, ditto for shaving, used to be every couple of days, now just on Saturday. Saturday is when it all happens, hair washed, face shaved, one or two other things too which needn't trouble us. And an interesting knock on effect is that when I go out in the day I now always wear a cap - since hair a mess with no morning routine - whereas before I would hardly ever do that. Essentially I look a bit dodgy a lot of the time, and I do realize this, so I hope once I've been vaccinated I'll be able to shake off these bad Covid era habits and get back to what I once was - a preppy, fresh faced (and smelling) character who you'd love to run into.

    Do you wear a cravat? (You seem the type.)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069
    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    I can certainly relate to these surveys. They ring true. I used to have 2 baths a day, now I only have one and that's at night. Used to wash my hair every 2 days, now it's once a week, on Saturday, ditto for shaving, used to be every couple of days, now just on Saturday. Saturday is when it all happens, hair washed, face shaved, one or two other things too which needn't trouble us. And an interesting knock on effect is that when I go out in the day I now always wear a cap - since hair a mess with no morning routine - whereas before I would hardly ever do that. Essentially I look a bit dodgy a lot of the time, and I do realize this, so I hope once I've been vaccinated I'll be able to shake off these bad Covid era habits and get back to what I once was - a preppy, fresh faced (and smelling) character who you'd love to run into.

    Yes, I haven't worn a suit since March, indeed have been wearing casual clothes until changed into scrubs at work. I look forward to when I can return to sartorial splendor. I like to dress well, though it is pretty much exclusively women who comment on such things.

    I shower and wash my hair everyday and am clean shaven, not least because it is needed for wearing FFP3 masks.

    I have worn a suit and tie four times since March. Which is the number of times I have had dinner "out". Other than that I've been at home. It hadn't seemed strange previously but put like that it is a bit bonkers. Four times in nine months.

    But then I was one of the "Cheltenham 250,000" so that lasted a month or two for the purposes of external food and drink consumption.

    Edit: oh yes I spent a week in Turkey in July. So let's count that also.
    I will go back to suit and tie when I can for work. It is a harmless source of pleasure to dress well and encourages me to look aftermyself in other ways. It is good for personal morale.

    One sociological curiosity is that younger working class women often make a serious effort, with full make up, designer handbags, carefully sculpted eyebrows and hair etc etc, but their partners make little effort at all and appear in grubby tracksuits and ungroomed. True for most ethnic groups.

    Generally British men dress very badly, the exception being urban hipsters. Not as bad as Americans, but far below the sartorial standards of Southern Europe.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    edited November 2020
    Looks like the EU has blinked though. And "controlling" our waters is not incompatible with letting other people fish in them.

    #bringonthedeal
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    DavidL said:

    Local authority elections are usually just local and you can't rule out, well, local factors, but it is not immediately obvious to me in the 2 most recent by elections that the surge we are apparently seeing in support for the SNP in the polls is being reflected in actual results.

    There is also some evidence that the raising of the temperature on Indyref 2 (#voteharder) is focusing the minds of some unionists resulting in an increasing efficiency in the Unionist vote. May may prove to be not quite as depressing as I feared.

    Opinium on Sunday had the SNP on 48% and the Tories on 27% in their subsample, I think the SNP summer surge is fading and as Sturgeon pushes indyref2 further Unionists are responding by voting tactically for the best Unionist party to beat the SNP as this week's Perth by election and last week's Clackmannanshire by election confirm
  • kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Yes, I'm struggling to see the story here even if it was requested and even if it was felt unreasonable to do it. People, organisations and goverments put flags on things.
    EU does it - absolutely fine!
    UK does it - disgraceful jingoistic nationalism!

    Bit like that story on Irish processed beef:
    EU - implements controls - to maintain food standards
    UK - implements (identical) controls - retaliation!
    Does the EU have a unit for the preservation of the EU that asks that the EU flag goes on stuff to fight off the vile separatists? Will EU vaccines be beflagged?
    On the former, well, kind of, doesn't it? It wants to promote the things it does to increase support for it and to head off discontent. Nothing wrong with that, I don't think there's a problem with institutions or governments wherever they are doing that, and whether there's an actual unit behind such proposals or not seems pretty irrelevant.

    On the second point, it might not have been a reasonable request, but an argument about which things its ok to put flags on and which it is not is a highly semantic one, and trivial rather than a matter of outrage. I honestly doubt there is that much outrage about this appareny vaccine flag idea either, even if its not considered a good idea.
    Och, I'm not outraged, just that putting UJs on boxes of life saving medicine (I'm assuming it wouldn't be on the vials themselves) to influence a particular political situation seems crass and tin eared. In fact, long may it continue!

    I wonder what will happen with the massive stocks of vaccinations that the UK has bought that aren't world beatingly British? 'Bought with world Beating British £s' labels I guess.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    kle4 said:

    Yes, I'm struggling to see the story here even if it was requested and even if it was felt unreasonable to do it. People, organisations and goverments put flags on things.
    EU does it - absolutely fine!
    UK does it - disgraceful jingoistic nationalism!

    Bit like that story on Irish processed beef:
    EU - implements controls - to maintain food standards
    UK - implements (identical) controls - retaliation!
    Does the EU have a unit for the preservation of the EU that asks that the EU flag goes on stuff to fight off the vile separatists? Will EU vaccines be beflagged?
    The EU Commission.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    kle4 said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    I think like a lot of people I started out as Covid WFH = holiday. No shaving, shorts and a t-shirt, not really paying attention to work as much as I should have been, etc.

    That lasted about two weeks. After that the novelty wore off plus I realised my head was in a sub-optimal place for work. Now I shave every day, properly dressed every day, not a suit, but put on a shirt, always use video on my zooms/teams/webex calls. Feel much better for it.

    If you're retired, however, (large PB contingent) then no idea how it would work.

    That's the way it should be. Hats off. Literally, because with your hair sorted you don't have to wear one.
    I get the hair thing but I'm not 100% sure you should be wearing any kind of head covering in London after age 28yrs.
    Hats are making a comeback! Not much of one, but I see more people than just myself wearing hats in the last few years.

    Type of hat is pretty vital though.
    Abso-bloody-lutely.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    edited November 2020
    It is a move in the right direction, it can be reviewed at a later stage, same with LPF, that seems to be where we are heading, Cummings going and Cain going and replaced by an Osborne aide confirms it
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    I can certainly relate to these surveys. They ring true. I used to have 2 baths a day, now I only have one and that's at night. Used to wash my hair every 2 days, now it's once a week, on Saturday, ditto for shaving, used to be every couple of days, now just on Saturday. Saturday is when it all happens, hair washed, face shaved, one or two other things too which needn't trouble us. And an interesting knock on effect is that when I go out in the day I now always wear a cap - since hair a mess with no morning routine - whereas before I would hardly ever do that. Essentially I look a bit dodgy a lot of the time, and I do realize this, so I hope once I've been vaccinated I'll be able to shake off these bad Covid era habits and get back to what I once was - a preppy, fresh faced (and smelling) character who you'd love to run into.

    Yes, I haven't worn a suit since March, indeed have been wearing casual clothes until changed into scrubs at work. I look forward to when I can return to sartorial splendor. I like to dress well, though it is pretty much exclusively women who comment on such things.

    I shower and wash my hair everyday and am clean shaven, not least because it is needed for wearing FFP3 masks.

    I have worn a suit and tie four times since March. Which is the number of times I have had dinner "out". Other than that I've been at home. It hadn't seemed strange previously but put like that it is a bit bonkers. Four times in nine months.

    But then I was one of the "Cheltenham 250,000" so that lasted a month or two for the purposes of external food and drink consumption.

    Edit: oh yes I spent a week in Turkey in July. So let's count that also.
    I will go back to suit and tie when I can for work. It is a harmless source of pleasure to dress well and encourages me to look aftermyself in other ways. It is good for personal morale.

    One sociological curiosity is that younger working class women often make a serious effort, with full make up, designer handbags, carefully sculpted eyebrows and hair etc etc, but their partners make little effort at all and appear in grubby tracksuits and ungroomed. True for most ethnic groups.

    Generally British men dress very badly, the exception being urban hipsters. Not as bad as Americans, but far below the sartorial standards of Southern Europe.
    Britain does formal very well. Anything else is a shocker and should be avoided.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    I think like a lot of people I started out as Covid WFH = holiday. No shaving, shorts and a t-shirt, not really paying attention to work as much as I should have been, etc.

    That lasted about two weeks. After that the novelty wore off plus I realised my head was in a sub-optimal place for work. Now I shave every day, properly dressed every day, not a suit, but put on a shirt, always use video on my zooms/teams/webex calls. Feel much better for it.

    If you're retired, however, (large PB contingent) then no idea how it would work.

    That's the way it should be. Hats off. Literally, because with your hair sorted you don't have to wear one.
    I get the hair thing but I'm not 100% sure you should be wearing any kind of head covering in London after age 28yrs.
    Hmm. Not sure that statement fits your profile pic very well 🤔🧐
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Roger said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    11.5% Request Rate for Georgia Senate Election Mail ballots.

    The Presidential election was 25.5%

    Going to lump on Purdue and Loeffler ?
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/11/23/perdue-loeffler-already-betrayed-voters-trust/

    Judas!

    Noone gives a toss about this stuff though. All about the (R) or (D) next to their name.
    Looking through the early mail requests I can see some reasons for Dem optimism - Dekalb leading the pack in terms of % request and a few for GOP optimism, high white request %.
    Just checking the regs and apparently you can request an absentee ballot up until the Friday before the election.

    New Year's Day.

    Lol
    I do worry about the Democrats traditionally awful low vote propensity. But could the decent 2018 performance (Which was actually better in Florida than everyone then thought as it turns out) actually be an effect of getting the HIGHER propensity suburban voters which may suit them in the GA runoffs.
    Trump turned out every redneck from their wood cabin in the general and it still wasn't enough to clear 50% for Purdue.
    Yes won't the shy Trumpers go back into hiding with him not on the ballot? That's what I'm hoping.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Yes, I'm struggling to see the story here even if it was requested and even if it was felt unreasonable to do it. People, organisations and goverments put flags on things.
    EU does it - absolutely fine!
    UK does it - disgraceful jingoistic nationalism!

    Bit like that story on Irish processed beef:
    EU - implements controls - to maintain food standards
    UK - implements (identical) controls - retaliation!
    Does the EU have a unit for the preservation of the EU that asks that the EU flag goes on stuff to fight off the vile separatists? Will EU vaccines be beflagged?
    On the former, well, kind of, doesn't it? It wants to promote the things it does to increase support for it and to head off discontent. Nothing wrong with that, I don't think there's a problem with institutions or governments wherever they are doing that, and whether there's an actual unit behind such proposals or not seems pretty irrelevant.

    On the second point, it might not have been a reasonable request, but an argument about which things its ok to put flags on and which it is not is a highly semantic one, and trivial rather than a matter of outrage. I honestly doubt there is that much outrage about this appareny vaccine flag idea either, even if its not considered a good idea.
    Och, I'm not outraged, just that putting UJs on boxes of life saving medicine (I'm assuming it wouldn't be on the vials themselves) to influence a particular political situation seems crass and tin eared. In fact, long may it continue!

    I wonder what will happen with the massive stocks of vaccinations that the UK has bought that aren't world beatingly British? 'Bought with world Beating British £s' labels I guess.
    I didn't think you were personally outraged (you're too phlegmatic for that), but the reporting of it as if it is a major thing seems like some people want it to be an outrage, when I think at worse people will take the view as you say about it being crass, and at best won't care as like Carlotta they'll note that people put flags on things all the time so what's the big deal.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Local authority elections are usually just local and you can't rule out, well, local factors, but it is not immediately obvious to me in the 2 most recent by elections that the surge we are apparently seeing in support for the SNP in the polls is being reflected in actual results.

    There is also some evidence that the raising of the temperature on Indyref 2 (#voteharder) is focusing the minds of some unionists resulting in an increasing efficiency in the Unionist vote. May may prove to be not quite as depressing as I feared.

    Opinium on Sunday had the SNP on 48% and the Tories on 27% in their subsample, I think the SNP summer surge is fading and as Sturgeon pushes indyref2 further Unionists are responding by voting tactically for the best Unionist party to beat the SNP as this week's Perth by election and last week's Clackmannanshire by election confirm
    I think the ever more obvious internecine warfare in the SNP is not helping them. Good.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    DavidL said:

    Looks like the EU has blinked though. And "controlling" our waters is not incompatible with letting other people fish in them.

    #bringonthedeal
    Under the proposal does the EU not retain around 85% of "our fish"? If so, i'm not sure the head bangers are going to like that.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    TOPPING said:

    kle4 said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    I think like a lot of people I started out as Covid WFH = holiday. No shaving, shorts and a t-shirt, not really paying attention to work as much as I should have been, etc.

    That lasted about two weeks. After that the novelty wore off plus I realised my head was in a sub-optimal place for work. Now I shave every day, properly dressed every day, not a suit, but put on a shirt, always use video on my zooms/teams/webex calls. Feel much better for it.

    If you're retired, however, (large PB contingent) then no idea how it would work.

    That's the way it should be. Hats off. Literally, because with your hair sorted you don't have to wear one.
    I get the hair thing but I'm not 100% sure you should be wearing any kind of head covering in London after age 28yrs.
    Hats are making a comeback! Not much of one, but I see more people than just myself wearing hats in the last few years.

    Type of hat is pretty vital though.
    Abso-bloody-lutely.
    I like to think that my Lords Cricket hat makes quite a statement when wandering around the village of an evening getting my steps. I see many look at it in what can surely only be admiration.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Local authority elections are usually just local and you can't rule out, well, local factors, but it is not immediately obvious to me in the 2 most recent by elections that the surge we are apparently seeing in support for the SNP in the polls is being reflected in actual results.

    There is also some evidence that the raising of the temperature on Indyref 2 (#voteharder) is focusing the minds of some unionists resulting in an increasing efficiency in the Unionist vote. May may prove to be not quite as depressing as I feared.

    Opinium on Sunday had the SNP on 48% and the Tories on 27% in their subsample, I think the SNP summer surge is fading and as Sturgeon pushes indyref2 further Unionists are responding by voting tactically for the best Unionist party to beat the SNP as this week's Perth by election and last week's Clackmannanshire by election confirm

    Subsample Alert

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772

    DavidL said:

    Looks like the EU has blinked though. And "controlling" our waters is not incompatible with letting other people fish in them.

    #bringonthedeal
    Under the proposal does the EU not retain around 85% of "our fish"? If so, i'm not sure the head bangers are going to like that.
    Frankly, my dear...you know the rest.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069
    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    I can certainly relate to these surveys. They ring true. I used to have 2 baths a day, now I only have one and that's at night. Used to wash my hair every 2 days, now it's once a week, on Saturday, ditto for shaving, used to be every couple of days, now just on Saturday. Saturday is when it all happens, hair washed, face shaved, one or two other things too which needn't trouble us. And an interesting knock on effect is that when I go out in the day I now always wear a cap - since hair a mess with no morning routine - whereas before I would hardly ever do that. Essentially I look a bit dodgy a lot of the time, and I do realize this, so I hope once I've been vaccinated I'll be able to shake off these bad Covid era habits and get back to what I once was - a preppy, fresh faced (and smelling) character who you'd love to run into.

    Yes, I haven't worn a suit since March, indeed have been wearing casual clothes until changed into scrubs at work. I look forward to when I can return to sartorial splendor. I like to dress well, though it is pretty much exclusively women who comment on such things.

    I shower and wash my hair everyday and am clean shaven, not least because it is needed for wearing FFP3 masks.
    I think it's true that letting small things slide can over time jeopardize the bigger ones. In fact I need to buck up.

    Have you managed to dodge your wife's corona btw?
    Yes, at times I wondered if I was developing it, but never did. I have tested negative, but have to isolate until Tuesday still. Getting a bit bored of it now, and I get how difficult some people found lockdown. It is a novelty to me, having worked right through.

    It is hard to understand how I have dodged it, as I have shared a living room and kitchen, though slept in the spare room. I must have been exposed. Whether Zinc and vitamins did it, or whether I have some immunity or just the luck of the devil, I don't know.

  • DavidL said:

    Looks like the EU has blinked though. And "controlling" our waters is not incompatible with letting other people fish in them.

    #bringonthedeal
    Under the proposal does the EU not retain around 85% of "our fish"? If so, i'm not sure the head bangers are going to like that.
    No, it's 85% of the proportion of 'our' fish that they already take.

    But you are right about the head-bangers. They won't like anything, irrespective of the content. They just want to destroy any possibility of a vaguely sane outcome.
  • DavidL said:

    Looks like the EU has blinked though. And "controlling" our waters is not incompatible with letting other people fish in them.

    #bringonthedeal
    Under the proposal does the EU not retain around 85% of "our fish"? If so, i'm not sure the head bangers are going to like that.
    I don't think it is nearly that simple. There is a formula which shares British waters with the EU, based ont eh quota system. So I am not sure what that 15-18% is "of".
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072

    DavidL said:

    Looks like the EU has blinked though. And "controlling" our waters is not incompatible with letting other people fish in them.

    #bringonthedeal
    Under the proposal does the EU not retain around 85% of "our fish"? If so, i'm not sure the head bangers are going to like that.
    No, it's 85% of the proportion of 'our' fish that they already take.

    But you are right about the head-bangers. They won't like anything, irrespective of the content. They just want to destroy any possibility of a vaguely sane outcome.
    I wonder what all those constituencies who deeply care about fishing will think of that proposal. @HYUFD - I'm sure you have a deep understanding of their wishes and concerns - thoughts?
This discussion has been closed.