Strangely enough my MiL (a former very Senior Nurse) did some focus group work on an early Tesco Xmas ad some months ago, (maybe this one maybe not). It showed vast gatherings of neighbours celebrating the end of Covid. Her feedback? "I'm not an epidemiologist, but you do know there will be a second wave? That's how pandemics work." They hadn't.
Some of the most ridiculous posts I have ever read on PB at the end of the last thread.
Ye gods.
That's a high bar. Will go check. Can't wait.
I checked. Hard to work out which ones @Anabobazina was particularly excited about.
The garbage channelling the “vaccine won’t work, this will go on forever” vibe.
Ah yes, fair point. I think I zone out whenever I see that stuff now.
There was a poster on PB (now disappeared) who assured PBers daily that live sport would never return and that was it forever for the Premier League and Test matches.
Strangely enough my MiL (a former very Senior Nurse) did some focus group work on an early Tesco Xmas ad some months ago, (maybe this one maybe not). It showed vast gatherings of neighbours celebrating the end of Covid. Her feedback? "I'm not an epidemiologist, but you do know there will be a second wave? That's how pandemics work." They hadn't.
The obsession with Christmas is doing my nut. Focus on the vaccine, not daft turkey-dinner based gimmicks.
The whole Christmas thing is *entirely* about Government trying to avoid the exposure of its own powerlessness. Because it knows that, if it attempts to maintain severe limits on social contact at Christmas, a substantial fraction of the population won't obey. There are few things more fatal to anyone aspiring to authority than to make up rules that are simultaneously loathed and unenforceable: their widescale violation will simply make those who wrote the rules appear extremely weak and useless, and cause those still remaining obedient to them to question what the point is in bothering.
I suspect we'll be let out for the period from about Christmas Eve to January 2nd then locked up again (probably until around school half term holidays in February, when there might be another two week window for family reunions, followed by a fourth lockdown until Easter.)
The half term holidays will of course feature tens of thousands of people going off skiing all over europe of course, going on the record of this administration to date.
Poland is heading into deep shit. 20,000 cases, 600 dead
I have seen virtually no mainstream coverage of the situation. In the spring, every night we got all the comparisons of how the UK was doing versus every European country, this time some brief mentions of which countries are going into lockdown, odd article about France is bad shape etc.
I doubt most people know that Lombardy is being hit just as badly as spring and that a number of countries that escaped the first wave are getting the shit kicked out of them e.g. Poland.
It's not just bits of Europe that escaped the first wave getting hammered, it's noticeable that a lot of US states, particularly red ones, that thought "it won't happen here" are suffering at least as badly as those blue states who were amongst the worst hit in the first wave.
Pictures of the covid party will go in the same chapter as European leaders decide to allow.a traditional summer holiday season...and our great grandkids will go were these people total morons.
Last night I heard a news report that COVID cases are increasing in all 50 states. Here in MD, as of tomorrow, Starbucks are closing their doors to people consuming drinks and food inside - just take out, drive through or patio service. So back to where we were in May.
Poland is heading into deep shit. 20,000 cases, 600 dead
All of Europe, or the large majority of it at any rate, is going to end up incarcerated like we are now - either continuously, or in cycles of two weeks out and two months back under house arrest - until somewhere between April and June next year, depending on the weather.
Start praying that this disease doesn't keep bouncing back and forth between humans and animals, returning in a new and vaccine negating form each time, as may already have started with the mink, or else we'll be locked up for nine months of the year every year for the rest of time. Or until the introduction of mandatory euthanasia at 60.
Y'know, I found myself wondering the other day how @Black_Rook would find a way to pour cold water on the emergence of multiple safe and effective vaccines on time and on schedule...
And now I don't need to wonder any more
If 2020 has taught us anything it's to imagine the worst that could happen and assume that's what's coming.
I was accused of being hysterical when I said we'd all be locked up until next Summer. No Government, not even one as incompetent as ours, could possibly get it that wrong, I was told.
Well, the scientists are absolutely doing their pieces over the idea of us being let out for five minutes at Christmas, let alone as early as December 2nd. One day out = five more days of lockdown later, we are now told. The situation is almost hopeless.
So, imagine the worst that could now happen. What could make it not almost but completely hopeless? Mutant Covid and an endless cycle of novel diseases that means an endless cycle of lockdowns. And, lo and behold, here comes Mink Variant Covid, charging over the horizon, the first of many pale horses getting ready to crush all the vaccine projects under its stampeding hooves. Back to square one again.
I mean, after everything that's already gone wrong, is there any good reason to suppose that it can't happen? If not, then Murphy's Law comes into effect.
We wont be looked up until next summer. Vaccination will start soon, cases will fall and normal life will return. Even if the virus mutates, it doesn’t necessarily render the vaccine ineffective. Even it that happens, the joy of the approach taken is it remarkable adaptability. Need to change the vaccine. Easy - change the mRNA and away we go. The story of 2020 is really about the incredible power at the hands of the scientists creating the vaccines in an astonishingly short time. And to be clear, these vaccines work, have been injected into thousands of people and have probably already saved lives. Take whatever relaxation aid you need, grin and bear it a little longer, and you’ll get through it. Perhaps your relaxation is to vent your fears here? If that’s fine, but it’s also important to have counter views to yours.
We shall certainly be locked up until next Summer. The logic of the situation compels it. The Government's approach is now almost entirely dictated by the fears of the scientists and medics, and from them the consensus appears to be:
1. We must keep a lid on this thing, as the moment we relax restrictions it will take off again (and we will scream for another lockdown accordingly.) 2. It'll take anything between six months and a year to vaccinate the enormous number of people who need it to get the pressure off the hospitals (basically everybody over 60, all the shielders and probably several other broad categories including diabetics and asthmatics,) and even that may be optimistic. The Pfizer vaccine poses serious practical challenges in terms of storage and distribution, the Moderna attempt will be in limited supply and we still don't know how effective the Oxford project actually is. And, beyond that, many of the GPs are already panicking over the disruption that a mass vaccination project will cause to care for all other conditions (which has more than a hint of irony to it given the mayhem that we already know to be caused by lockdowns, but hey-ho.)
I share the hope that the vaccines will finally stick a lid on this evil plague and let us have something vaguely resembling a normal life come next Autumn, it's simply that experience suggests that the next disaster is waiting around the corner, so there's no point in getting too excited about it. That way, if we find ourselves in exactly the same predicament again next year then at least it will be somewhat less disappointing.
If the West (and elsewhere) is locked down like this until next Autumn you will see widespread civil insurrection and probably significant warfare. People just won't tolerate it to protect 1-2% of the population, mainly elderly
Just when you thought Johnson's administration couldn't make a bigger f*cking mess of covid they go and pull another blinder.
This time letting the hare run that Xmas is on.
No way back now.
They were never going to cancel Xmas, or even dare to. The most we were ever going to get was a lecture about being careful. That’s why we probably won’t be released in early December, or if we are, the tier system will be extended and tightened such that for most areas it’ll be status quo thru to mid Dec.
Just when you thought Johnson's administration couldn't make a bigger f*cking mess of covid they go and pull another blinder.
This time letting the hare run that Xmas is on.
No way back now.
Not at all. I think they are managing breaking the news on what they have decided very well.
First of all the official line is it’s too early to decide.
But they know tiered measures or full lockdown go on till March at least.
They know they can’t have full lockdown for anyone over Christmas, but what would be more politically damaging is where some areas could have a tiered Christmas, but to allow them to do so, is to say my good people of Suffolk, Cheltenham, London, my government grants you Christmas, but for those of you in Redcar, Darlington, Stockton, Christmas is cancelled.
So, they will play it, this is the Christmas advice for you all, you have the leeway to make your own decisions.
And they are softening you up for that beautifully
Poland is heading into deep shit. 20,000 cases, 600 dead
All of Europe, or the large majority of it at any rate, is going to end up incarcerated like we are now - either continuously, or in cycles of two weeks out and two months back under house arrest - until somewhere between April and June next year, depending on the weather.
Start praying that this disease doesn't keep bouncing back and forth between humans and animals, returning in a new and vaccine negating form each time, as may already have started with the mink, or else we'll be locked up for nine months of the year every year for the rest of time. Or until the introduction of mandatory euthanasia at 60.
Y'know, I found myself wondering the other day how @Black_Rook would find a way to pour cold water on the emergence of multiple safe and effective vaccines on time and on schedule...
And now I don't need to wonder any more
If 2020 has taught us anything it's to imagine the worst that could happen and assume that's what's coming.
I was accused of being hysterical when I said we'd all be locked up until next Summer. No Government, not even one as incompetent as ours, could possibly get it that wrong, I was told.
Well, the scientists are absolutely doing their pieces over the idea of us being let out for five minutes at Christmas, let alone as early as December 2nd. One day out = five more days of lockdown later, we are now told. The situation is almost hopeless.
So, imagine the worst that could now happen. What could make it not almost but completely hopeless? Mutant Covid and an endless cycle of novel diseases that means an endless cycle of lockdowns. And, lo and behold, here comes Mink Variant Covid, charging over the horizon, the first of many pale horses getting ready to crush all the vaccine projects under its stampeding hooves. Back to square one again.
I mean, after everything that's already gone wrong, is there any good reason to suppose that it can't happen? If not, then Murphy's Law comes into effect.
We wont be looked up until next summer. Vaccination will start soon, cases will fall and normal life will return. Even if the virus mutates, it doesn’t necessarily render the vaccine ineffective. Even it that happens, the joy of the approach taken is it remarkable adaptability. Need to change the vaccine. Easy - change the mRNA and away we go. The story of 2020 is really about the incredible power at the hands of the scientists creating the vaccines in an astonishingly short time. And to be clear, these vaccines work, have been injected into thousands of people and have probably already saved lives. Take whatever relaxation aid you need, grin and bear it a little longer, and you’ll get through it. Perhaps your relaxation is to vent your fears here? If that’s fine, but it’s also important to have counter views to yours.
We shall certainly be locked up until next Summer. The logic of the situation compels it. The Government's approach is now almost entirely dictated by the fears of the scientists and medics, and from them the consensus appears to be:
1. We must keep a lid on this thing, as the moment we relax restrictions it will take off again (and we will scream for another lockdown accordingly.) 2. It'll take anything between six months and a year to vaccinate the enormous number of people who need it to get the pressure off the hospitals (basically everybody over 60, all the shielders and probably several other broad categories including diabetics and asthmatics,) and even that may be optimistic. The Pfizer vaccine poses serious practical challenges in terms of storage and distribution, the Moderna attempt will be in limited supply and we still don't know how effective the Oxford project actually is. And, beyond that, many of the GPs are already panicking over the disruption that a mass vaccination project will cause to care for all other conditions (which has more than a hint of irony to it given the mayhem that we already know to be caused by lockdowns, but hey-ho.)
I share the hope that the vaccines will finally stick a lid on this evil plague and let us have something vaguely resembling a normal life come next Autumn, it's simply that experience suggests that the next disaster is waiting around the corner, so there's no point in getting too excited about it. That way, if we find ourselves in exactly the same predicament again next year then at least it will be somewhat less disappointing.
If the West (and elsewhere) is locked down like this until next Autumn you will see widespread civil insurrection and probably significant warfare. People just won't tolerate it to protect 1-2% of the population, mainly elderly
It`s not just the deaths though - it`s the long term health affects of those that survive it.
I share Black rook`s concerns - though am a little more optimist about the escape-route offered by the vaccines.
Now, I know there are complexities to when really is the best time to raise them, but while the public will undoubtedly always dislike any tax rises, I'd think at the least more people will accept the principle of raising taxes after having to splurge massive amounts of cash in a pandemic.
I mean, lots of people are, in general, in favour of smaller government and frugality too, but would make a distinction between normal and not normal times.
That’s what most people missed
We borrowed this extra money from the Bank of England.
They created it for that purpose.
The debt isn’t really real...
They are putting up taxes because it’s a great excuse to put up taxes that had probably got too low overall
Poland is heading into deep shit. 20,000 cases, 600 dead
All of Europe, or the large majority of it at any rate, is going to end up incarcerated like we are now - either continuously, or in cycles of two weeks out and two months back under house arrest - until somewhere between April and June next year, depending on the weather.
Start praying that this disease doesn't keep bouncing back and forth between humans and animals, returning in a new and vaccine negating form each time, as may already have started with the mink, or else we'll be locked up for nine months of the year every year for the rest of time. Or until the introduction of mandatory euthanasia at 60.
Y'know, I found myself wondering the other day how @Black_Rook would find a way to pour cold water on the emergence of multiple safe and effective vaccines on time and on schedule...
And now I don't need to wonder any more
If 2020 has taught us anything it's to imagine the worst that could happen and assume that's what's coming.
I was accused of being hysterical when I said we'd all be locked up until next Summer. No Government, not even one as incompetent as ours, could possibly get it that wrong, I was told.
Well, the scientists are absolutely doing their pieces over the idea of us being let out for five minutes at Christmas, let alone as early as December 2nd. One day out = five more days of lockdown later, we are now told. The situation is almost hopeless.
So, imagine the worst that could now happen. What could make it not almost but completely hopeless? Mutant Covid and an endless cycle of novel diseases that means an endless cycle of lockdowns. And, lo and behold, here comes Mink Variant Covid, charging over the horizon, the first of many pale horses getting ready to crush all the vaccine projects under its stampeding hooves. Back to square one again.
I mean, after everything that's already gone wrong, is there any good reason to suppose that it can't happen? If not, then Murphy's Law comes into effect.
We wont be looked up until next summer. Vaccination will start soon, cases will fall and normal life will return. Even if the virus mutates, it doesn’t necessarily render the vaccine ineffective. Even it that happens, the joy of the approach taken is it remarkable adaptability. Need to change the vaccine. Easy - change the mRNA and away we go. The story of 2020 is really about the incredible power at the hands of the scientists creating the vaccines in an astonishingly short time. And to be clear, these vaccines work, have been injected into thousands of people and have probably already saved lives. Take whatever relaxation aid you need, grin and bear it a little longer, and you’ll get through it. Perhaps your relaxation is to vent your fears here? If that’s fine, but it’s also important to have counter views to yours.
We shall certainly be locked up until next Summer. The logic of the situation compels it. The Government's approach is now almost entirely dictated by the fears of the scientists and medics, and from them the consensus appears to be:
1. We must keep a lid on this thing, as the moment we relax restrictions it will take off again (and we will scream for another lockdown accordingly.) 2. It'll take anything between six months and a year to vaccinate the enormous number of people who need it to get the pressure off the hospitals (basically everybody over 60, all the shielders and probably several other broad categories including diabetics and asthmatics,) and even that may be optimistic. The Pfizer vaccine poses serious practical challenges in terms of storage and distribution, the Moderna attempt will be in limited supply and we still don't know how effective the Oxford project actually is. And, beyond that, many of the GPs are already panicking over the disruption that a mass vaccination project will cause to care for all other conditions (which has more than a hint of irony to it given the mayhem that we already know to be caused by lockdowns, but hey-ho.)
I share the hope that the vaccines will finally stick a lid on this evil plague and let us have something vaguely resembling a normal life come next Autumn, it's simply that experience suggests that the next disaster is waiting around the corner, so there's no point in getting too excited about it. That way, if we find ourselves in exactly the same predicament again next year then at least it will be somewhat less disappointing.
It is worth remembering that the early indication from Pfizer/BioNTech is that their vaccine dramatically cuts how infectious you are: i.e. vaccinated people don't become asymptomatic super spreaders.
This means that as more people get vaccinated, R will come down.
Now, getting 40 million people two doses of a vaccine is a non trivial challenge, but if we can concentrate on the most vulnerable, and those most likely to pass Covid on, we might well be able to see the light at the end of the tunnel, and begin a meaningful lifting of restriction post Easter.
Poland is heading into deep shit. 20,000 cases, 600 dead
All of Europe, or the large majority of it at any rate, is going to end up incarcerated like we are now - either continuously, or in cycles of two weeks out and two months back under house arrest - until somewhere between April and June next year, depending on the weather.
Start praying that this disease doesn't keep bouncing back and forth between humans and animals, returning in a new and vaccine negating form each time, as may already have started with the mink, or else we'll be locked up for nine months of the year every year for the rest of time. Or until the introduction of mandatory euthanasia at 60.
Y'know, I found myself wondering the other day how @Black_Rook would find a way to pour cold water on the emergence of multiple safe and effective vaccines on time and on schedule...
And now I don't need to wonder any more
If 2020 has taught us anything it's to imagine the worst that could happen and assume that's what's coming.
I was accused of being hysterical when I said we'd all be locked up until next Summer. No Government, not even one as incompetent as ours, could possibly get it that wrong, I was told.
Well, the scientists are absolutely doing their pieces over the idea of us being let out for five minutes at Christmas, let alone as early as December 2nd. One day out = five more days of lockdown later, we are now told. The situation is almost hopeless.
So, imagine the worst that could now happen. What could make it not almost but completely hopeless? Mutant Covid and an endless cycle of novel diseases that means an endless cycle of lockdowns. And, lo and behold, here comes Mink Variant Covid, charging over the horizon, the first of many pale horses getting ready to crush all the vaccine projects under its stampeding hooves. Back to square one again.
I mean, after everything that's already gone wrong, is there any good reason to suppose that it can't happen? If not, then Murphy's Law comes into effect.
We wont be looked up until next summer. Vaccination will start soon, cases will fall and normal life will return. Even if the virus mutates, it doesn’t necessarily render the vaccine ineffective. Even it that happens, the joy of the approach taken is it remarkable adaptability. Need to change the vaccine. Easy - change the mRNA and away we go. The story of 2020 is really about the incredible power at the hands of the scientists creating the vaccines in an astonishingly short time. And to be clear, these vaccines work, have been injected into thousands of people and have probably already saved lives. Take whatever relaxation aid you need, grin and bear it a little longer, and you’ll get through it. Perhaps your relaxation is to vent your fears here? If that’s fine, but it’s also important to have counter views to yours.
Good post. Worth stressing that only a proportion of the public needs to be vaccinated to cut off virus multiplication routes and R will fall below 1 quickly. I think the likeliest scenario is a gradual diminishing of the virus and a gradual diminishing of authoritarian measures alongside.
It was my dear wife's 81st birthday today and in contrast my 11 year old grandson was knocked over by a van while walking home from school. An ambulance was called, three police cars arrived, and a lady came out of her house with blankets and an ice pack in such a kind gesture
My daughter was called to the scene and she went in the ambulance to A & E where he was triaged, had an x ray, and mercifully nothing was broken but a very swollen and bruised ankle and foot will keep him immobilised for a few days
However, the staff in A & E were wonderful and a great thank you to all those at Glan Clwyd Hospital A & E and the unnamed lady
As we all agreed, it could have been a lot worse but it is very unnerving when you are told your grandson is in a vehicle accident and awaiting the ambulance
However, kindness is such a wonderful thing to behold, maybe we should all be kinder and gentler in these stressful days
It was my dear wife's 81st birthday today and in contrast my 11 year old grandson was knocked over by a van while walking home from school. An ambulance was called, three police cars arrived, and a lady came out of her house with blankets and an ice pack in such a kind gesture
My daughter was called to the scene and she went in the ambulance to A & E where he was triaged, had an x ray, and mercifully nothing was broken but a very swollen and bruised ankle and foot will keep him immobilised for a few days
However, the staff in A & E were wonderful and a great thank you to all those at Glan Clwyd Hospital A & E and the unnamed lady
As we all agreed, it could have been a lot worse but it is very unnerving when you are told your grandson is in a vehicle accident and awaiting the ambulance
However, kindness is such a wonderful thing to behold, maybe we should all be kinder and gentler in these stressful days
Best wishes to them all. A lucky escape by the sounds of it.
Brilliant news. Thank you. Best use yet of magic money tree.
Why's that now. What military adverntures should we be having that we can't afford right now?
Perhaps they're looking with horror at the coming youth unemployment disaster, with complete absence of permanent jobs, training posts (can't train new staff when we're all working from home) and even casual jobs (because all the pubs and restaurants will have gone bust) and have secretly decided that the only solution is... conscription.
It was my dear wife's 81st birthday today and in contrast my 11 year old grandson was knocked over by a van while walking home from school. An ambulance was called, three police cars arrived, and a lady came out of her house with blankets and an ice pack in such a kind gesture
My daughter was called to the scene and she went in the ambulance to A & E where he was triaged, had an x ray, and mercifully nothing was broken but a very swollen and bruised ankle and foot will keep him immobilised for a few days
However, the staff in A & E were wonderful and a great thank you to all those at Glan Clwyd Hospital A & E and the unnamed lady
As we all agreed, it could have been a lot worse but it is very unnerving when you are told your grandson is in a vehicle accident and awaiting the ambulance
However, kindness is such a wonderful thing to behold, maybe we should all be kinder and gentler in these stressful days
Best wishes to them all. A lucky escape by the sounds of it.
Thank you and we are very grateful that it was not a lot worse
At one moment he was under the vans wheel. Very scary
Poland is heading into deep shit. 20,000 cases, 600 dead
All of Europe, or the large majority of it at any rate, is going to end up incarcerated like we are now - either continuously, or in cycles of two weeks out and two months back under house arrest - until somewhere between April and June next year, depending on the weather.
Start praying that this disease doesn't keep bouncing back and forth between humans and animals, returning in a new and vaccine negating form each time, as may already have started with the mink, or else we'll be locked up for nine months of the year every year for the rest of time. Or until the introduction of mandatory euthanasia at 60.
Y'know, I found myself wondering the other day how @Black_Rook would find a way to pour cold water on the emergence of multiple safe and effective vaccines on time and on schedule...
And now I don't need to wonder any more
If 2020 has taught us anything it's to imagine the worst that could happen and assume that's what's coming.
I was accused of being hysterical when I said we'd all be locked up until next Summer. No Government, not even one as incompetent as ours, could possibly get it that wrong, I was told.
Well, the scientists are absolutely doing their pieces over the idea of us being let out for five minutes at Christmas, let alone as early as December 2nd. One day out = five more days of lockdown later, we are now told. The situation is almost hopeless.
So, imagine the worst that could now happen. What could make it not almost but completely hopeless? Mutant Covid and an endless cycle of novel diseases that means an endless cycle of lockdowns. And, lo and behold, here comes Mink Variant Covid, charging over the horizon, the first of many pale horses getting ready to crush all the vaccine projects under its stampeding hooves. Back to square one again.
I mean, after everything that's already gone wrong, is there any good reason to suppose that it can't happen? If not, then Murphy's Law comes into effect.
We wont be looked up until next summer. Vaccination will start soon, cases will fall and normal life will return. Even if the virus mutates, it doesn’t necessarily render the vaccine ineffective. Even it that happens, the joy of the approach taken is it remarkable adaptability. Need to change the vaccine. Easy - change the mRNA and away we go. The story of 2020 is really about the incredible power at the hands of the scientists creating the vaccines in an astonishingly short time. And to be clear, these vaccines work, have been injected into thousands of people and have probably already saved lives. Take whatever relaxation aid you need, grin and bear it a little longer, and you’ll get through it. Perhaps your relaxation is to vent your fears here? If that’s fine, but it’s also important to have counter views to yours.
We shall certainly be locked up until next Summer. The logic of the situation compels it. The Government's approach is now almost entirely dictated by the fears of the scientists and medics, and from them the consensus appears to be:
1. We must keep a lid on this thing, as the moment we relax restrictions it will take off again (and we will scream for another lockdown accordingly.) 2. It'll take anything between six months and a year to vaccinate the enormous number of people who need it to get the pressure off the hospitals (basically everybody over 60, all the shielders and probably several other broad categories including diabetics and asthmatics,) and even that may be optimistic. The Pfizer vaccine poses serious practical challenges in terms of storage and distribution, the Moderna attempt will be in limited supply and we still don't know how effective the Oxford project actually is. And, beyond that, many of the GPs are already panicking over the disruption that a mass vaccination project will cause to care for all other conditions (which has more than a hint of irony to it given the mayhem that we already know to be caused by lockdowns, but hey-ho.)
I share the hope that the vaccines will finally stick a lid on this evil plague and let us have something vaguely resembling a normal life come next Autumn, it's simply that experience suggests that the next disaster is waiting around the corner, so there's no point in getting too excited about it. That way, if we find ourselves in exactly the same predicament again next year then at least it will be somewhat less disappointing.
It is worth remembering that the early indication from Pfizer/BioNTech is that their vaccine dramatically cuts how infectious you are: i.e. vaccinated people don't become asymptomatic super spreaders.
This means that as more people get vaccinated, R will come down.
Now, getting 40 million people two doses of a vaccine is a non trivial challenge, but if we can concentrate on the most vulnerable, and those most likely to pass Covid on, we might well be able to see the light at the end of the tunnel, and begin a meaningful lifting of restriction post Easter.
Apart from infectiousness, taking x millions of the old and vulnerable out of the pool of those liable to be infected will cut the death and hospitalisation rates massively.
From the ONS - "The majority of deaths involving COVID-19 have been among people aged 65 years and over (52,446 out of 58,645)."
There are something like 12 million over 65s in the country.
Brilliant news. Thank you. Best use yet of magic money tree.
Seriously?
Yes. I seriously believed that from the headline. But the detail stinks.
Ugh. Outside of the spin in the headline “biggest investment in defence since the Cold War “ it’s not so great at all.
£16B is just over half the annual budget.
How far will that stretch over nuclear deterrent funding and expensive outer space stuff where insurance premiums are huge?
Frigates and Tanks to be scrapped to allow department of media and sport to have an AI unit.
Off course Wallace will say he done a great job defending the MOD, but that is certainly questionable. He is going to come under pressure once the spin wears off and the devil comes out detail.
Now, I know there are complexities to when really is the best time to raise them, but while the public will undoubtedly always dislike any tax rises, I'd think at the least more people will accept the principle of raising taxes after having to splurge massive amounts of cash in a pandemic.
I mean, lots of people are, in general, in favour of smaller government and frugality too, but would make a distinction between normal and not normal times.
Surely a great time to throw an extra £16Bn to the MOD
Brilliant news. Thank you. Best use yet of magic money tree.
Seriously?
Yes. I seriously believed that from the headline. But the detail stinks.
Ugh. Outside of the spin in the headline “biggest investment in defence since the Cold War “ it’s not so great at all.
£16B is just over half the annual budget.
How far will that stretch over nuclear deterrent funding and expensive outer space stuff where insurance premiums are huge?
Frigates and Tanks to be scrapped to allow department of media and sport to have an IA unit.
Off course Wallace will say he done a great job defending the MOD, but that is certainly questionable. He is going to come under pressure once the spin wears off and the devil comes out detail.
Is this money going to bankroll Cumming's pet British Google project?
Poland is heading into deep shit. 20,000 cases, 600 dead
All of Europe, or the large majority of it at any rate, is going to end up incarcerated like we are now - either continuously, or in cycles of two weeks out and two months back under house arrest - until somewhere between April and June next year, depending on the weather.
Start praying that this disease doesn't keep bouncing back and forth between humans and animals, returning in a new and vaccine negating form each time, as may already have started with the mink, or else we'll be locked up for nine months of the year every year for the rest of time. Or until the introduction of mandatory euthanasia at 60.
Y'know, I found myself wondering the other day how @Black_Rook would find a way to pour cold water on the emergence of multiple safe and effective vaccines on time and on schedule...
And now I don't need to wonder any more
If 2020 has taught us anything it's to imagine the worst that could happen and assume that's what's coming.
I was accused of being hysterical when I said we'd all be locked up until next Summer. No Government, not even one as incompetent as ours, could possibly get it that wrong, I was told.
Well, the scientists are absolutely doing their pieces over the idea of us being let out for five minutes at Christmas, let alone as early as December 2nd. One day out = five more days of lockdown later, we are now told. The situation is almost hopeless.
So, imagine the worst that could now happen. What could make it not almost but completely hopeless? Mutant Covid and an endless cycle of novel diseases that means an endless cycle of lockdowns. And, lo and behold, here comes Mink Variant Covid, charging over the horizon, the first of many pale horses getting ready to crush all the vaccine projects under its stampeding hooves. Back to square one again.
I mean, after everything that's already gone wrong, is there any good reason to suppose that it can't happen? If not, then Murphy's Law comes into effect.
We wont be looked up until next summer. Vaccination will start soon, cases will fall and normal life will return. Even if the virus mutates, it doesn’t necessarily render the vaccine ineffective. Even it that happens, the joy of the approach taken is it remarkable adaptability. Need to change the vaccine. Easy - change the mRNA and away we go. The story of 2020 is really about the incredible power at the hands of the scientists creating the vaccines in an astonishingly short time. And to be clear, these vaccines work, have been injected into thousands of people and have probably already saved lives. Take whatever relaxation aid you need, grin and bear it a little longer, and you’ll get through it. Perhaps your relaxation is to vent your fears here? If that’s fine, but it’s also important to have counter views to yours.
We shall certainly be locked up until next Summer. The logic of the situation compels it. The Government's approach is now almost entirely dictated by the fears of the scientists and medics, and from them the consensus appears to be:
1. We must keep a lid on this thing, as the moment we relax restrictions it will take off again (and we will scream for another lockdown accordingly.) 2. It'll take anything between six months and a year to vaccinate the enormous number of people who need it to get the pressure off the hospitals (basically everybody over 60, all the shielders and probably several other broad categories including diabetics and asthmatics,) and even that may be optimistic. The Pfizer vaccine poses serious practical challenges in terms of storage and distribution, the Moderna attempt will be in limited supply and we still don't know how effective the Oxford project actually is. And, beyond that, many of the GPs are already panicking over the disruption that a mass vaccination project will cause to care for all other conditions (which has more than a hint of irony to it given the mayhem that we already know to be caused by lockdowns, but hey-ho.)
I share the hope that the vaccines will finally stick a lid on this evil plague and let us have something vaguely resembling a normal life come next Autumn, it's simply that experience suggests that the next disaster is waiting around the corner, so there's no point in getting too excited about it. That way, if we find ourselves in exactly the same predicament again next year then at least it will be somewhat less disappointing.
It is worth remembering that the early indication from Pfizer/BioNTech is that their vaccine dramatically cuts how infectious you are: i.e. vaccinated people don't become asymptomatic super spreaders.
This means that as more people get vaccinated, R will come down.
Now, getting 40 million people two doses of a vaccine is a non trivial challenge, but if we can concentrate on the most vulnerable, and those most likely to pass Covid on, we might well be able to see the light at the end of the tunnel, and begin a meaningful lifting of restriction post Easter.
GPs are panicking because they will have to do some work for the first time in eight months and their golf handicaps will suffer accordingly.
Brilliant news. Thank you. Best use yet of magic money tree.
Seriously?
Yes. I seriously believed that from the headline. But the detail stinks.
Ugh. Outside of the spin in the headline “biggest investment in defence since the Cold War “ it’s not so great at all.
£16B is just over half the annual budget.
How far will that stretch over nuclear deterrent funding and expensive outer space stuff where insurance premiums are huge?
Frigates and Tanks to be scrapped to allow department of media and sport to have an AI unit.
Off course Wallace will say he done a great job defending the MOD, but that is certainly questionable. He is going to come under pressure once the spin wears off and the devil comes out detail.
It's £4Bn not £16Bn. The old Brownian cumulative counting trick.
I can think of a few other things that are of a slightly higher priority at the moment.
Are we in imminent danger of invasion? Seems the Government is doing a pretty good job of destroying the nation within at the moment without the need of external assistance.
Of course if it's all about defence, then maybe they could find the money from the money spent on our offensive capability...
Brilliant news. Thank you. Best use yet of magic money tree.
Seriously?
Yes. I seriously believed that from the headline. But the detail stinks.
Ugh. Outside of the spin in the headline “biggest investment in defence since the Cold War “ it’s not so great at all.
£16B is just over half the annual budget.
How far will that stretch over nuclear deterrent funding and expensive outer space stuff where insurance premiums are huge?
Frigates and Tanks to be scrapped to allow department of media and sport to have an AI unit.
Off course Wallace will say he done a great job defending the MOD, but that is certainly questionable. He is going to come under pressure once the spin wears off and the devil comes out detail.
It's £4Bn not £16Bn. The old Brownian cumulative counting trick.
Yes. 16 over 4 years. 4 a year where annual budget is about 28, and ships and tanks axed to pay for space and IA and cyber and N Deterrent.
Poland is heading into deep shit. 20,000 cases, 600 dead
All of Europe, or the large majority of it at any rate, is going to end up incarcerated like we are now - either continuously, or in cycles of two weeks out and two months back under house arrest - until somewhere between April and June next year, depending on the weather.
Start praying that this disease doesn't keep bouncing back and forth between humans and animals, returning in a new and vaccine negating form each time, as may already have started with the mink, or else we'll be locked up for nine months of the year every year for the rest of time. Or until the introduction of mandatory euthanasia at 60.
Y'know, I found myself wondering the other day how @Black_Rook would find a way to pour cold water on the emergence of multiple safe and effective vaccines on time and on schedule...
And now I don't need to wonder any more
If 2020 has taught us anything it's to imagine the worst that could happen and assume that's what's coming.
I was accused of being hysterical when I said we'd all be locked up until next Summer. No Government, not even one as incompetent as ours, could possibly get it that wrong, I was told.
Well, the scientists are absolutely doing their pieces over the idea of us being let out for five minutes at Christmas, let alone as early as December 2nd. One day out = five more days of lockdown later, we are now told. The situation is almost hopeless.
So, imagine the worst that could now happen. What could make it not almost but completely hopeless? Mutant Covid and an endless cycle of novel diseases that means an endless cycle of lockdowns. And, lo and behold, here comes Mink Variant Covid, charging over the horizon, the first of many pale horses getting ready to crush all the vaccine projects under its stampeding hooves. Back to square one again.
I mean, after everything that's already gone wrong, is there any good reason to suppose that it can't happen? If not, then Murphy's Law comes into effect.
We wont be looked up until next summer. Vaccination will start soon, cases will fall and normal life will return. Even if the virus mutates, it doesn’t necessarily render the vaccine ineffective. Even it that happens, the joy of the approach taken is it remarkable adaptability. Need to change the vaccine. Easy - change the mRNA and away we go. The story of 2020 is really about the incredible power at the hands of the scientists creating the vaccines in an astonishingly short time. And to be clear, these vaccines work, have been injected into thousands of people and have probably already saved lives. Take whatever relaxation aid you need, grin and bear it a little longer, and you’ll get through it. Perhaps your relaxation is to vent your fears here? If that’s fine, but it’s also important to have counter views to yours.
We shall certainly be locked up until next Summer. The logic of the situation compels it. The Government's approach is now almost entirely dictated by the fears of the scientists and medics, and from them the consensus appears to be:
1. We must keep a lid on this thing, as the moment we relax restrictions it will take off again (and we will scream for another lockdown accordingly.) 2. It'll take anything between six months and a year to vaccinate the enormous number of people who need it to get the pressure off the hospitals (basically everybody over 60, all the shielders and probably several other broad categories including diabetics and asthmatics,) and even that may be optimistic. The Pfizer vaccine poses serious practical challenges in terms of storage and distribution, the Moderna attempt will be in limited supply and we still don't know how effective the Oxford project actually is. And, beyond that, many of the GPs are already panicking over the disruption that a mass vaccination project will cause to care for all other conditions (which has more than a hint of irony to it given the mayhem that we already know to be caused by lockdowns, but hey-ho.)
I share the hope that the vaccines will finally stick a lid on this evil plague and let us have something vaguely resembling a normal life come next Autumn, it's simply that experience suggests that the next disaster is waiting around the corner, so there's no point in getting too excited about it. That way, if we find ourselves in exactly the same predicament again next year then at least it will be somewhat less disappointing.
It is worth remembering that the early indication from Pfizer/BioNTech is that their vaccine dramatically cuts how infectious you are: i.e. vaccinated people don't become asymptomatic super spreaders.
This means that as more people get vaccinated, R will come down.
Now, getting 40 million people two doses of a vaccine is a non trivial challenge, but if we can concentrate on the most vulnerable, and those most likely to pass Covid on, we might well be able to see the light at the end of the tunnel, and begin a meaningful lifting of restriction post Easter.
GPs are panicking because they will have to do some work for the first time in eight months and their golf handicaps will suffer accordingly.
Given that we give 20 million people the regular flu jab each year....
Poland is heading into deep shit. 20,000 cases, 600 dead
All of Europe, or the large majority of it at any rate, is going to end up incarcerated like we are now - either continuously, or in cycles of two weeks out and two months back under house arrest - until somewhere between April and June next year, depending on the weather.
Start praying that this disease doesn't keep bouncing back and forth between humans and animals, returning in a new and vaccine negating form each time, as may already have started with the mink, or else we'll be locked up for nine months of the year every year for the rest of time. Or until the introduction of mandatory euthanasia at 60.
Y'know, I found myself wondering the other day how @Black_Rook would find a way to pour cold water on the emergence of multiple safe and effective vaccines on time and on schedule...
And now I don't need to wonder any more
If 2020 has taught us anything it's to imagine the worst that could happen and assume that's what's coming.
I was accused of being hysterical when I said we'd all be locked up until next Summer. No Government, not even one as incompetent as ours, could possibly get it that wrong, I was told.
Well, the scientists are absolutely doing their pieces over the idea of us being let out for five minutes at Christmas, let alone as early as December 2nd. One day out = five more days of lockdown later, we are now told. The situation is almost hopeless.
So, imagine the worst that could now happen. What could make it not almost but completely hopeless? Mutant Covid and an endless cycle of novel diseases that means an endless cycle of lockdowns. And, lo and behold, here comes Mink Variant Covid, charging over the horizon, the first of many pale horses getting ready to crush all the vaccine projects under its stampeding hooves. Back to square one again.
I mean, after everything that's already gone wrong, is there any good reason to suppose that it can't happen? If not, then Murphy's Law comes into effect.
We wont be looked up until next summer. Vaccination will start soon, cases will fall and normal life will return. Even if the virus mutates, it doesn’t necessarily render the vaccine ineffective. Even it that happens, the joy of the approach taken is it remarkable adaptability. Need to change the vaccine. Easy - change the mRNA and away we go. The story of 2020 is really about the incredible power at the hands of the scientists creating the vaccines in an astonishingly short time. And to be clear, these vaccines work, have been injected into thousands of people and have probably already saved lives. Take whatever relaxation aid you need, grin and bear it a little longer, and you’ll get through it. Perhaps your relaxation is to vent your fears here? If that’s fine, but it’s also important to have counter views to yours.
We shall certainly be locked up until next Summer. The logic of the situation compels it. The Government's approach is now almost entirely dictated by the fears of the scientists and medics, and from them the consensus appears to be:
1. We must keep a lid on this thing, as the moment we relax restrictions it will take off again (and we will scream for another lockdown accordingly.) 2. It'll take anything between six months and a year to vaccinate the enormous number of people who need it to get the pressure off the hospitals (basically everybody over 60, all the shielders and probably several other broad categories including diabetics and asthmatics,) and even that may be optimistic. The Pfizer vaccine poses serious practical challenges in terms of storage and distribution, the Moderna attempt will be in limited supply and we still don't know how effective the Oxford project actually is. And, beyond that, many of the GPs are already panicking over the disruption that a mass vaccination project will cause to care for all other conditions (which has more than a hint of irony to it given the mayhem that we already know to be caused by lockdowns, but hey-ho.)
I share the hope that the vaccines will finally stick a lid on this evil plague and let us have something vaguely resembling a normal life come next Autumn, it's simply that experience suggests that the next disaster is waiting around the corner, so there's no point in getting too excited about it. That way, if we find ourselves in exactly the same predicament again next year then at least it will be somewhat less disappointing.
It is worth remembering that the early indication from Pfizer/BioNTech is that their vaccine dramatically cuts how infectious you are: i.e. vaccinated people don't become asymptomatic super spreaders.
This means that as more people get vaccinated, R will come down.
Now, getting 40 million people two doses of a vaccine is a non trivial challenge, but if we can concentrate on the most vulnerable, and those most likely to pass Covid on, we might well be able to see the light at the end of the tunnel, and begin a meaningful lifting of restriction post Easter.
Agreed. If the vaccines actually materialise and it's still an if then the government's top priority is to get the 65+ and those with comorbities vaccinated Q1 2021 then hopefully a return to near normal from April.
They seem to care more about judicial appointments than anything else they do, in fact they seem pretty unconcerned about other matters, even the big stuff like Obamacare.
Brilliant news. Thank you. Best use yet of magic money tree.
Seriously?
Yes. I seriously believed that from the headline. Def to,pay for it, But the detail stinks.
Ugh. Outside of the spin in the headline “biggest investment in defence since the Cold War “ it’s not so great at all.
£16B is just over half the annual budget.
How far will that stretch over nuclear deterrent funding and expensive outer space stuff where insurance premiums are huge?
Frigates and Tanks to be scrapped to allow department of media and sport to have an AI unit.
Off course Wallace will say he done a great job defending the MOD, but that is certainly questionable. He is going to come under pressure once the spin wears off and the devil comes out detail.
Why have the Telegraph and Times fallen into this awful spin trap, and not used the detail to defend the military, and better job of defending the Ministry than the SoS has done? Will the broadcast media be similarly ensnared by the gimmicks and not question what proper defence is getting axed to pay for it, even if there’s money there to properly fund it all? Gold plated dreams and tin pot money is never a defence.
It was my dear wife's 81st birthday today and in contrast my 11 year old grandson was knocked over by a van while walking home from school. An ambulance was called, three police cars arrived, and a lady came out of her house with blankets and an ice pack in such a kind gesture
My daughter was called to the scene and she went in the ambulance to A & E where he was triaged, had an x ray, and mercifully nothing was broken but a very swollen and bruised ankle and foot will keep him immobilised for a few days
However, the staff in A & E were wonderful and a great thank you to all those at Glan Clwyd Hospital A & E and the unnamed lady
As we all agreed, it could have been a lot worse but it is very unnerving when you are told your grandson is in a vehicle accident and awaiting the ambulance
However, kindness is such a wonderful thing to behold, maybe we should all be kinder and gentler in these stressful days
A nightmare for you all - sympathies. I'm so glad it turrned out pretty much OK.
The obsession with Christmas is doing my nut. Focus on the vaccine, not daft turkey-dinner based gimmicks.
I remember seeing some polling on this - roughly half the country are into Christmas family gatherings and half just see it as a time to chill and don't have a party at all. Having a party that puts all your guests at risk seems altogether too Agatha Christie.
They seem to care more about judicial appointments than anything else they do, in fact they seem pretty unconcerned about other matters, even the big stuff like Obamacare.
Sadly for them their judicial appointments seem to be more concerned with the Constitution and the Law than with politics much of the time.
They seem to care more about judicial appointments than anything else they do, in fact they seem pretty unconcerned about other matters, even the big stuff like Obamacare.
The US Judiciary is basically the 4th pillar of government, they're supposed to be apolitical but often aren't.
Now, I know there are complexities to when really is the best time to raise them, but while the public will undoubtedly always dislike any tax rises, I'd think at the least more people will accept the principle of raising taxes after having to splurge massive amounts of cash in a pandemic.
I mean, lots of people are, in general, in favour of smaller government and frugality too, but would make a distinction between normal and not normal times.
Surely a great time to throw an extra £16Bn to the MOD
I see that the BBC News and the National Audit Office have picked up on concerns about the use of intermediaries, conflicts of interest and peculiar procurement processes.
No shit, Sherlock!
Even though all too many on here handwave away such concerns.
They seem to care more about judicial appointments than anything else they do, in fact they seem pretty unconcerned about other matters, even the big stuff like Obamacare.
The US Judiciary is basically the 4th pillar of government, they're supposed to be apolitical but often aren't.
Oh I agree, but it doesn't guarantee them a complete pass through the courts as they are finding. More to the point, they really don't seem to be consider what will now happen should the Democrats get more control in future.
I see that the BBC News and the National Audit Office have picked up on concerns about the use of intermediaries, conflicts of interest and peculiar procurement processes.
No shit, Sherlock!
Even though all too many on here handwave away such concerns.
Brilliant news. Thank you. Best use yet of magic money tree.
Seriously?
Yes. I seriously believed that from the headline. Def to,pay for it, But the detail stinks.
Ugh. Outside of the spin in the headline “biggest investment in defence since the Cold War “ it’s not so great at all.
£16B is just over half the annual budget.
How far will that stretch over nuclear deterrent funding and expensive outer space stuff where insurance premiums are huge?
Frigates and Tanks to be scrapped to allow department of media and sport to have an AI unit.
Off course Wallace will say he done a great job defending the MOD, but that is certainly questionable. He is going to come under pressure once the spin wears off and the devil comes out detail.
Why have the Telegraph and Times fallen into this awful spin trap, ...
No10's scientific advisers relied on unverified data from Wikipedia to help steer Britain through the coronavirus crisis in spring, an explosive new documentary has claimed.
Members of the Government's Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE) admitted early virus modelling was based on figures from the online encyclopedia, which can be edited and managed by members of the public.
This is really interesting. I wonder if the GOP might not be happy with acting President Pelosi, though. She's a great inside politician but a fairly terrible mainstream communicator, and IIUC they could put the president of their choice in if they won the mid-terms in 2022?
I see that the BBC News and the National Audit Office have picked up on concerns about the use of intermediaries, conflicts of interest and peculiar procurement processes.
No shit, Sherlock!
Even though all too many on here handwave away such concerns.
Oh NAO!
Meaning? Not an option?
I don't mind acronyms but some are beyond obscure.
The obsession with Christmas is doing my nut. Focus on the vaccine, not daft turkey-dinner based gimmicks.
I remember seeing some polling on this - roughly half the country are into Christmas family gatherings and half just see it as a time to chill and don't have a party at all. Having a party that puts all your guests at risk seems altogether too Agatha Christie.
Did you see about the Ohio superspreader wedding? It's worth reading on it: quite the lesson on why such events are pretty daft right now unless carefully managed and also on how incredibly stupid a lot of people are.
You'd hope people could use their common sense about christmas and skip meeting for instance cousins and extended family and so forth.
You watch people go absolutely nuts. 5 days on the lash, house to house.
No doubt the press reports will find such things but I suspect most ordinary folk will be pretty sensible.
The worry is that they won’t. It was seen when three or four days’ notice was given about bars being closed, there was a large enough group of people who made a point of seeing as many people as possible within those few days, behaviour that probably caused another couple of weeks of restrictions.
Our family Christmas this year will be remote in half a dozen locations, with a video call open all day for those who want to come and go. Will be for my parents the first time they have been on their own at Christmas since 1976, the year they married.
Really not sure what to do about Christmas yet. Normally have my brother (who is shielding) and his adult daughter and my sister and her 2 kids, one now at University along with my daughter and her partner. So that would be 5 households in total. It doesn't seem sensible and yet... we seem to have missed out on so much already this year. No summer holiday, no trips away to speak of, tighter money, no trips to see my son's potential Universities, it gets you down a bit.
Joe Rogan taking over Jon Stewart's role, of being the comedian who given you more insight into what's going on in the world than most of the rest of the news media.
Really not sure what to do about Christmas yet. Normally have my brother (who is shielding) and his adult daughter and my sister and her 2 kids, one now at University along with my daughter and her partner. So that would be 5 households in total. It doesn't seem sensible and yet... we seem to have missed out on so much already this year. No summer holiday, no trips away to speak of, tighter money, no trips to see my son's potential Universities, it gets you down a bit.
It is hard. But now we almost certainly have effective vaccines, the ‘we’re all going to get it anyway’ argument is gone. Everyone will make their own choices, of course, but they should be made in that context.
Good morning fellow-posters, and to the the lurkers.
As we've commented before, a side-effect of the virus has been the increased use of such products as Zoom; next week my wife and I are going to a 70th birthday party which will be 'attended by' people from places as far apart as California and Israel and points in between.
Mr Sandpit, your parents being married in 1976 really emphasises the passage of time for me.
Ah, I see we can magic money out of thin air but only for certain things
£16bn over 4 years is not a lot of money really. Its more about ensuring that the funding stream is there for longer term projects and investments. That investment will be important to our defence industries and will protect jobs. It might even generate some tax to help pay for the nurses.
To put it further in perspective the money spent on dealing with Covid this year is estimated at £200bn. The commitment to the furlough scheme alone will cost something like another £50bn before next March. Goodness knows how much we will end up spending on vaccines and rolling them out. The increase in our NHS spending this year alone will be multiples of this 4 year figure.
Really not sure what to do about Christmas yet. Normally have my brother (who is shielding) and his adult daughter and my sister and her 2 kids, one now at University along with my daughter and her partner. So that would be 5 households in total. It doesn't seem sensible and yet... we seem to have missed out on so much already this year. No summer holiday, no trips away to speak of, tighter money, no trips to see my son's potential Universities, it gets you down a bit.
Really not sure what to do about Christmas yet. Normally have my brother (who is shielding) and his adult daughter and my sister and her 2 kids, one now at University along with my daughter and her partner. So that would be 5 households in total. It doesn't seem sensible and yet... we seem to have missed out on so much already this year. No summer holiday, no trips away to speak of, tighter money, no trips to see my son's potential Universities, it gets you down a bit.
It is hard. But now we almost certainly have effective vaccines, the ‘we’re all going to get it anyway’ argument is gone. Everyone will make their own choices, of course, but they should be made in that context.
Yes, but there is a strong probability that this is my brother's last Christmas so the vaccine isn't going to do him much good.
I don't know how typical my family is but the first lockdown in March-June we were extremely conscientious and compliant. The risk was obvious and taken very seriously. This one less so. We have bent the rules at the edges more. I am travelling for work again more. My son is obviously seeing his friends at school and out of school much more. We have chaffed more at the restrictions.
You'd hope people could use their common sense about christmas and skip meeting for instance cousins and extended family and so forth.
You watch people go absolutely nuts. 5 days on the lash, house to house.
No doubt the press reports will find such things but I suspect most ordinary folk will be pretty sensible.
The worry is that they won’t. It was seen when three or four days’ notice was given about bars being closed, there was a large enough group of people who made a point of seeing as many people as possible within those few days, behaviour that probably caused another couple of weeks of restrictions.
Our family Christmas this year will be remote in half a dozen locations, with a video call open all day for those who want to come and go. Will be for my parents the first time they have been on their own at Christmas since 1976, the year they married.
I have yet to meet anyone here in Spain or in my family at home who knows of anyone planning a Xmas as normal routine this year - yes there will be idiots as there always are - but I suspect most people will be careful especially with vaccines barely a few months away at most for many of us.
Joe Rogan taking over Jon Stewart's role, of being the comedian who given you more insight into what's going on in the world than most of the rest of the news media.
Comments
It showed vast gatherings of neighbours celebrating the end of Covid.
Her feedback? "I'm not an epidemiologist, but you do know there will be a second wave? That's how pandemics work."
They hadn't.
Ps. Hope your youngling is getting better @isam.
Someone from the journo-tweet community will nick it in short order – but you read it here first!
Ah, I see we can magic money out of thin air but only for certain things
First of all the official line is it’s too early to decide.
But they know tiered measures or full lockdown go on till March at least.
They know they can’t have full lockdown for anyone over Christmas, but what would be more politically damaging is where some areas could have a tiered Christmas, but to allow them to do so, is to say my good people of Suffolk, Cheltenham, London, my government grants you Christmas, but for those of you in Redcar, Darlington, Stockton, Christmas is cancelled.
So, they will play it, this is the Christmas advice for you all, you have the leeway to make your own decisions.
And they are softening you up for that beautifully
I share Black rook`s concerns - though am a little more optimist about the escape-route offered by the vaccines.
Someone appears to have hacked your account and is using it to suggest that taxes "...had probably got too low..."
The dysfunctionality of the government is merely a reflection of the slapdash destructiveness of the prime minister himself
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/18/tories-post-cummings-reset-face-problem-boris-johnson
This means that as more people get vaccinated, R will come down.
Now, getting 40 million people two doses of a vaccine is a non trivial challenge, but if we can concentrate on the most vulnerable, and those most likely to pass Covid on, we might well be able to see the light at the end of the tunnel, and begin a meaningful lifting of restriction post Easter.
I feel much more chipper than I did in April.
My daughter was called to the scene and she went in the ambulance to A & E where he was triaged, had an x ray, and mercifully nothing was broken but a very swollen and bruised ankle and foot will keep him immobilised for a few days
However, the staff in A & E were wonderful and a great thank you to all those at Glan Clwyd Hospital A & E and the unnamed lady
As we all agreed, it could have been a lot worse but it is very unnerving when you are told your grandson is in a vehicle accident and awaiting the ambulance
However, kindness is such a wonderful thing to behold, maybe we should all be kinder and gentler in these stressful days
https://twitter.com/BLaw/status/1329195030175748096?s=19
At one moment he was under the vans wheel. Very scary
Positively priapic, me. As should every true Englishman be.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHqOZkOqkb0
From the ONS - "The majority of deaths involving COVID-19 have been among people aged 65 years and over (52,446 out of 58,645)."
There are something like 12 million over 65s in the country.
I just hope this space command concept is part of a wider strategy. That is, it can't just operate in a vacuum..
Ugh. Outside of the spin in the headline “biggest investment in defence since the Cold War “ it’s not so great at all.
£16B is just over half the annual budget.
How far will that stretch over nuclear deterrent funding and expensive outer space stuff where insurance premiums are huge?
Frigates and Tanks to be scrapped to allow department of media and sport to have an AI unit.
Off course Wallace will say he done a great job defending the MOD, but that is certainly questionable. He is going to come under pressure once the spin wears off and the devil comes out detail.
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/1327601642880053250
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1329189444306472961?s=09
I can think of a few other things that are of a slightly higher priority at the moment.
Are we in imminent danger of invasion? Seems the Government is doing a pretty good job of destroying the nation within at the moment without the need of external assistance.
Of course if it's all about defence, then maybe they could find the money from the money spent on our offensive capability...
(It's the grubby labcoat. Thanks.)
Reality is that this is probably Someone's Pet Project...
Comforting in these difficult days.
It does make you wonder - "I have a plan that will keep us in headlines for 2 decades. I'll need a ticket to Paris and a white Fiat Uno....."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6sVow9l8H4&feature=youtu.be
Disappointing.
(less time)
Diana's death
(more time)
Today
Let. It. Go. Already.
I’m sniffing BS.
No shit, Sherlock!
Even though all too many on here handwave away such concerns.
Members of the Government's Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE) admitted early virus modelling was based on figures from the online encyclopedia, which can be edited and managed by members of the public.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8961245/SAGE-used-dodgy-data-WIKIPEDIA-model-Covid-crisis-spring-BBC-documentary-reveals.html
They should have come to PB instead.
https://twitter.com/BillFOXLA/status/1328932610169561090?s=19
https://www.itv.com/news/2020-11-18/rebecca-long-bailey-sir-keir-starmer-was-wrong-to-withhold-the-labour-whip-from-jeremy-corbyn
That article by Peter Oborne, previous thread, is spot on.
Sorry for belated message: I generally don't come on here after my morning catch-up.
I don't mind acronyms but some are beyond obscure.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/nov/19/australian-special-forces-involved-in-of-39-afghan-civilians-war-crimes-report-alleges
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-bride-and-groom-among-32-infected-at-ohio-superspreader-wedding-12135428
Our family Christmas this year will be remote in half a dozen locations, with a video call open all day for those who want to come and go. Will be for my parents the first time they have been on their own at Christmas since 1976, the year they married.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIoO6fuz1_I
Joe Rogan taking over Jon Stewart's role, of being the comedian who given you more insight into what's going on in the world than most of the rest of the news media.
But now we almost certainly have effective vaccines, the ‘we’re all going to get it anyway’ argument is gone. Everyone will make their own choices, of course, but they should be made in that context.
As we've commented before, a side-effect of the virus has been the increased use of such products as Zoom; next week my wife and I are going to a 70th birthday party which will be 'attended by' people from places as far apart as California and Israel and points in between.
Mr Sandpit, your parents being married in 1976 really emphasises the passage of time for me.
To put it further in perspective the money spent on dealing with Covid this year is estimated at £200bn. The commitment to the furlough scheme alone will cost something like another £50bn before next March. Goodness knows how much we will end up spending on vaccines and rolling them out. The increase in our NHS spending this year alone will be multiples of this 4 year figure.
I don't know how typical my family is but the first lockdown in March-June we were extremely conscientious and compliant. The risk was obvious and taken very seriously. This one less so. We have bent the rules at the edges more. I am travelling for work again more. My son is obviously seeing his friends at school and out of school much more. We have chaffed more at the restrictions.