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Betfair’s “Next President” market remains open and so far a staggering £696m of bets have been match

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited November 16 in General
imageBetfair’s “Next President” market remains open and so far a staggering £696m of bets have been matched – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 4,396
    Bonkers.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 37,625
    Scott_xP said:
    Surely shome mistake? We were told that Johnson was a political genius and communicator without modern parallel.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 7,783

    Scott_xP said:
    Surely shome mistake? We were told that Johnson was a political genius and communicator without modern parallel.
    He's certainly communicating his views, all right.
  • Current Betfair prices:-

    Biden 1.05
    Democrats 1.05
    Biden PV 1.03
    Biden PV 49-51.9% 1.05
    Trump PV 46-48.9% 1.05
    Trump ECV 210-239 1.08
    Biden ECV 300-329 1.08
    Biden ECV Hcap -48.5 1.05
    Biden ECV Hcap -63.5 1.06
    Trump ECV Hcap +81.5 1.02

    AZ Dem 1.04
    GA Dem 1.05
    MI Dem 1.04
    NV Dem 1.04
    PA Dem 1.05
    WI Dem 1.06
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 19,566
    Carnyx said:
    Bloody hell, they want Scottish independence so that they can maintain their hegemony over England.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 22,820
    Just perusing the case data today, I think there's been a reporting error in London and the SE, today's reported cases should be ~3k higher because of that.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 58,286
    Scott_xP said:
    For God's sake, maybe Boris really does hate the UK, not merely that he's incompetent.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 58,286

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    IMO Japan has the most impressive vaccine portfolio so far, 120m Pfizer doses and 80m Moderna doses all due for Q1 2021 delivery. That's 100m people's worth of vaccine of the two fastest candidates and they both have around 95% effectiveness.

    Absolutely smashed it.

    Picking winners from vaccines is like trying to predict the premier league scores every week. You can use logic and data, but every round there is a huge amount of luck.

    If the Oxford one comes good in 2-3 weeks, UK will have 100+ million doses secured across 3 vaccines all for delivery before realistically we can physically give it to everybody. If that turns out to be the case, the UK will have also smashed it. Worst case scenario, we can already have enough for 1/2 population, which is good going.

    The big task now is getting it rolled out to people.
    Not to everyone, surely. Those who regarded the virus as a hoax, or nothing worse than a cold or mild flu, will surely not want to bother taking it.
    Well obviously the likes of Piers Corbyn won't be queuing up to get it.
    Without wanting to give too much away, I'm hearing that many many retailers and entertainment/eating venues in the UK will only let in people who can prove they've had the vaccine.

    I know Ticketmaster US have denied such a policy, but I reckon it is inevitable here and elsewhere.

    Go to Cineworld cinemas because we only let in vaccinated people*, eat at Pizza Hut because we only let in vaccinated people* etc etc.

    *I suspect they'll also let in people who cannot have a vaccine for medical reasons.
    And where does that leave healthy adults between 18 and 40 ?
    Netflix and masturbation.
    I'm clearly ahead of the times.

    dr_spyn said:
    The lib dems, jeez

    Not sure Jesus can save them, unfortunately.

    MrEd said:

    TOPPING said:

    Laugh-out-loud comedy from Owen Jones here:

    He should have closed his Ocado tab before filming. Not 100% great for his man of the people schtick.
    He also seems to have a fairly large office for a man of the people.
    Do you have to be poor to be a man of the people?
    'Of' the people, yes (or at least not rich). 'For' the people? Certainly not.

    Being 'of the people' is overrated and far from a guarantee of quality anyway.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 58,286
    I find it hard to believe the first sentence about why they sat down to watch it, but that is pretty funny. It's Poldark's scything all over again?
  • kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    For God's sake, maybe Boris really does hate the UK, not merely that he's incompetent.
    I never thought I'd say this, but can we have Dom C back?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 7,783
    edited November 16
    FPT
    LadyG said:

    Carnyx said:

    LadyG said:

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Boris is correct. For the Tories and Labour devolution has been a disaster... :D:D


    This chap is not a pro-indy commentator.
    WTF are they doing to Edinburgh?

    Look at this thing



    PS I'm noit sure that it is any consolation that it replaced the St James Centre and its associated footbridge which wrecked a crucial vista from the North Bridge/Walterloo Place/Princes St junctrion ...
    Poor Edinburgh. It's also had to suffer Holyrood


    https://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2017/11/07/security-alert-sparked-holyrood

    Which, as time goes by, looks increasingly like a weirdly ugly sports hall on the outskirts of an over ambitious county town in mid Wales. And also the National Museum for Scotland, which looks like a car park for Category A prisoners

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Museum_of_Scotland#/media/File:Museum_of_Scotland.jpg


    Most of the NMS is actually a conglomerate of late C19 aqnd early C20 galleries, soemwhat modernised in places, but with a lovely Victorian Venetian (?) exterior. The thing in the photo is the new wing, which was oepened in edit: 1998 (the one which had the Tories foaming at the mouth because giving it a separate door was pandering to the SNP: yes, or rather no, I don't know why). The new wing takes a lot of exploring, right up to the rooftop garden (easily missed) and the eponymous Carnyx from Deskford (not sure if it is on display). The interior is surprising in its design - you ought to try it sometime. The exterior is clad in Scottish sandstone BTW. If you are pzzled by what looks like an entry tower the fortification theme is probably quite deliberate - I seem to remember that the architects Benson + Forsyth were echoing the Half-Moon Battery at the Castle over across Greyfriard Kirkyaird.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 7,783

    Things should be judged on what they were intended to do and what actually happened.

    So Scottish devolution was intended to 'kill independence stone dead' and put SLAB in power forever.

    And its been a disaster for both.

    More precisely, the voting system was fiddled by Labour and the LDs (as they admitted cheerfully) to put a Labour-LD coalition in power forever by making anythign else impossible. But yes, quite.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 14,624
    FPT:

    I don't wish to depress anyone further but on top of Covid and Brexit we are probably due a 1947- or 1963-style winter.

    Remember you heard it here first.

    Why are we due such a winter?
    Well, of course we are not; I was teasing.

    If we assume (and who can say, given climate change?) that we have two such winters per century then there's a 2% chance of this winter being a really cold one. But that chance doesn't increase the longer we go without one.

    (And @Foxy)
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 9,293
    edited November 16
    FPT.

    dixiedean said:

    What struck me about this was the teenage & twenty-something locals standing around so it takes a 61 year old to act:

    In fairness, many (most?) Chinese can't swim. It really is a remarkable feature of their culture.
    Here. You might drown, so pretty much everyone learns to swim as a child.
    There. You might drown, so don't go near the water.
    That’s bizarre. Why don’t people learn to swim there?
    Here is an article.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/91115602

    It does not mention the persistent belief in Shui Gwei. Water ghosts who drag you under and make you into a changling by stealing your personality.
    Big take aways. 60000 drown per year.
    Biggest cause of death under 14.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 7,783

    So basically, they are not happy with the cast?
    Or the leader actor, either.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,082
    Carnyx said:

    FPT

    LadyG said:

    Carnyx said:

    LadyG said:

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Boris is correct. For the Tories and Labour devolution has been a disaster... :D:D


    This chap is not a pro-indy commentator.
    WTF are they doing to Edinburgh?

    Look at this thing



    PS I'm noit sure that it is any consolation that it replaced the St James Centre and its associated footbridge which wrecked a crucial vista from the North Bridge/Walterloo Place/Princes St junctrion ...
    Poor Edinburgh. It's also had to suffer Holyrood


    https://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2017/11/07/security-alert-sparked-holyrood

    Which, as time goes by, looks increasingly like a weirdly ugly sports hall on the outskirts of an over ambitious county town in mid Wales. And also the National Museum for Scotland, which looks like a car park for Category A prisoners

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Museum_of_Scotland#/media/File:Museum_of_Scotland.jpg


    Most of the NMS is actually a conglomerate of late C19 aqnd early C20 galleries, soemwhat modernised in places, but with a lovely Victorian Venetian (?) exterior. The thing in the photo is the new wing, which was oepened in edit: 1998 (the one which had the Tories foaming at the mouth because giving it a separate door was pandering to the SNP: yes, or rather no, I don't know why). The new wing takes a lot of exploring, right up to the rooftop garden (easily missed) and the eponymous Carnyx from Deskford (not sure if it is on display). The interior is surprising in its design - you ought to try it sometime. The exterior is clad in Scottish sandstone BTW. If you are pzzled by what looks like an entry tower the fortification theme is probably quite deliberate - I seem to remember that the architects Benson + Forsyth were echoing the Half-Moon Battery at the Castle over across Greyfriard Kirkyaird.
    I know the NMS well, and have visited it several times. A good museum. Yes I get the references to castles and warfare, the same way the Barbican is meant to be like a walled mini-city, where the Roman walls of London used to stand.

    I just think it is rather too brutal and clumsy, a touch uninspiring, and in the wrong place.

    But it is definitely the best of the three buildings we are discussing. At least it is clad in nice stone and has some integrity.

    Holyrood is downright hideous and this new hotel is scrotum-tighteningly awful. Like a nightmare.
  • So basically, they are not happy with the cast?
    Thread won...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 7,783
    LadyG said:

    Carnyx said:

    FPT

    LadyG said:

    Carnyx said:

    LadyG said:

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Boris is correct. For the Tories and Labour devolution has been a disaster... :D:D


    This chap is not a pro-indy commentator.
    WTF are they doing to Edinburgh?

    Look at this thing



    PS I'm noit sure that it is any consolation that it replaced the St James Centre and its associated footbridge which wrecked a crucial vista from the North Bridge/Walterloo Place/Princes St junctrion ...
    Poor Edinburgh. It's also had to suffer Holyrood


    https://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2017/11/07/security-alert-sparked-holyrood

    Which, as time goes by, looks increasingly like a weirdly ugly sports hall on the outskirts of an over ambitious county town in mid Wales. And also the National Museum for Scotland, which looks like a car park for Category A prisoners

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Museum_of_Scotland#/media/File:Museum_of_Scotland.jpg


    Most of the NMS is actually a conglomerate of late C19 aqnd early C20 galleries, soemwhat modernised in places, but with a lovely Victorian Venetian (?) exterior. The thing in the photo is the new wing, which was oepened in edit: 1998 (the one which had the Tories foaming at the mouth because giving it a separate door was pandering to the SNP: yes, or rather no, I don't know why). The new wing takes a lot of exploring, right up to the rooftop garden (easily missed) and the eponymous Carnyx from Deskford (not sure if it is on display). The interior is surprising in its design - you ought to try it sometime. The exterior is clad in Scottish sandstone BTW. If you are pzzled by what looks like an entry tower the fortification theme is probably quite deliberate - I seem to remember that the architects Benson + Forsyth were echoing the Half-Moon Battery at the Castle over across Greyfriard Kirkyaird.
    I know the NMS well, and have visited it several times. A good museum. Yes I get the references to castles and warfare, the same way the Barbican is meant to be like a walled mini-city, where the Roman walls of London used to stand.

    I just think it is rather too brutal and clumsy, a touch uninspiring, and in the wrong place.

    But it is definitely the best of the three buildings we are discussing. At least it is clad in nice stone and has some integrity.

    Holyrood is downright hideous and this new hotel is scrotum-tighteningly awful. Like a nightmare.
    Scrotum-tightening is certainly the right expression when you consider how such a shape is produced!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 29,906
    Desperate history rewriting.
  • eekeek Posts: 9,606

    Scott_xP said:
    Surely shome mistake? We were told that Johnson was a political genius and communicator without modern parallel.
    Only by people who either didn't know Johnson or were planning to use him.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 18,324
    LadyG said:

    Carnyx said:

    FPT

    LadyG said:

    Carnyx said:

    LadyG said:

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Boris is correct. For the Tories and Labour devolution has been a disaster... :D:D


    This chap is not a pro-indy commentator.
    WTF are they doing to Edinburgh?

    Look at this thing



    PS I'm noit sure that it is any consolation that it replaced the St James Centre and its associated footbridge which wrecked a crucial vista from the North Bridge/Walterloo Place/Princes St junctrion ...
    Poor Edinburgh. It's also had to suffer Holyrood


    https://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2017/11/07/security-alert-sparked-holyrood

    Which, as time goes by, looks increasingly like a weirdly ugly sports hall on the outskirts of an over ambitious county town in mid Wales. And also the National Museum for Scotland, which looks like a car park for Category A prisoners

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Museum_of_Scotland#/media/File:Museum_of_Scotland.jpg


    Most of the NMS is actually a conglomerate of late C19 aqnd early C20 galleries, soemwhat modernised in places, but with a lovely Victorian Venetian (?) exterior. The thing in the photo is the new wing, which was oepened in edit: 1998 (the one which had the Tories foaming at the mouth because giving it a separate door was pandering to the SNP: yes, or rather no, I don't know why). The new wing takes a lot of exploring, right up to the rooftop garden (easily missed) and the eponymous Carnyx from Deskford (not sure if it is on display). The interior is surprising in its design - you ought to try it sometime. The exterior is clad in Scottish sandstone BTW. If you are pzzled by what looks like an entry tower the fortification theme is probably quite deliberate - I seem to remember that the architects Benson + Forsyth were echoing the Half-Moon Battery at the Castle over across Greyfriard Kirkyaird.
    I know the NMS well, and have visited it several times. A good museum. Yes I get the references to castles and warfare, the same way the Barbican is meant to be like a walled mini-city, where the Roman walls of London used to stand.

    I just think it is rather too brutal and clumsy, a touch uninspiring, and in the wrong place.

    But it is definitely the best of the three buildings we are discussing. At least it is clad in nice stone and has some integrity.

    Holyrood is downright hideous and this new hotel is scrotum-tighteningly awful. Like a nightmare.
    For reference this is the building the golden turd is replacing


  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 18,324
    For reference Nevada's official canvas of results finishes today.

    At that point the results are official.

    4% return on your money (minus fees)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 7,783
    Alistair said:

    LadyG said:

    Carnyx said:

    FPT

    LadyG said:

    Carnyx said:

    LadyG said:

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Boris is correct. For the Tories and Labour devolution has been a disaster... :D:D


    This chap is not a pro-indy commentator.
    WTF are they doing to Edinburgh?

    Look at this thing



    PS I'm noit sure that it is any consolation that it replaced the St James Centre and its associated footbridge which wrecked a crucial vista from the North Bridge/Walterloo Place/Princes St junctrion ...
    Poor Edinburgh. It's also had to suffer Holyrood


    https://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2017/11/07/security-alert-sparked-holyrood

    Which, as time goes by, looks increasingly like a weirdly ugly sports hall on the outskirts of an over ambitious county town in mid Wales. And also the National Museum for Scotland, which looks like a car park for Category A prisoners

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Museum_of_Scotland#/media/File:Museum_of_Scotland.jpg


    Most of the NMS is actually a conglomerate of late C19 aqnd early C20 galleries, soemwhat modernised in places, but with a lovely Victorian Venetian (?) exterior. The thing in the photo is the new wing, which was oepened in edit: 1998 (the one which had the Tories foaming at the mouth because giving it a separate door was pandering to the SNP: yes, or rather no, I don't know why). The new wing takes a lot of exploring, right up to the rooftop garden (easily missed) and the eponymous Carnyx from Deskford (not sure if it is on display). The interior is surprising in its design - you ought to try it sometime. The exterior is clad in Scottish sandstone BTW. If you are pzzled by what looks like an entry tower the fortification theme is probably quite deliberate - I seem to remember that the architects Benson + Forsyth were echoing the Half-Moon Battery at the Castle over across Greyfriard Kirkyaird.
    I know the NMS well, and have visited it several times. A good museum. Yes I get the references to castles and warfare, the same way the Barbican is meant to be like a walled mini-city, where the Roman walls of London used to stand.

    I just think it is rather too brutal and clumsy, a touch uninspiring, and in the wrong place.

    But it is definitely the best of the three buildings we are discussing. At least it is clad in nice stone and has some integrity.

    Holyrood is downright hideous and this new hotel is scrotum-tighteningly awful. Like a nightmare.
    For reference this is the building the golden turd is replacing


    Oh, please make it go away.

    And this is what it replaced ....

    http://www.edinphoto.org.uk/0_street_r/0_street_views_-_saint_james_square.htm#photo_01
  • eekeek Posts: 9,606
    Alistair said:

    LadyG said:

    Carnyx said:

    FPT

    LadyG said:

    Carnyx said:

    LadyG said:

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Boris is correct. For the Tories and Labour devolution has been a disaster... :D:D


    This chap is not a pro-indy commentator.
    WTF are they doing to Edinburgh?

    Look at this thing



    PS I'm noit sure that it is any consolation that it replaced the St James Centre and its associated footbridge which wrecked a crucial vista from the North Bridge/Walterloo Place/Princes St junctrion ...
    Poor Edinburgh. It's also had to suffer Holyrood


    https://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2017/11/07/security-alert-sparked-holyrood

    Which, as time goes by, looks increasingly like a weirdly ugly sports hall on the outskirts of an over ambitious county town in mid Wales. And also the National Museum for Scotland, which looks like a car park for Category A prisoners

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Museum_of_Scotland#/media/File:Museum_of_Scotland.jpg


    Most of the NMS is actually a conglomerate of late C19 aqnd early C20 galleries, soemwhat modernised in places, but with a lovely Victorian Venetian (?) exterior. The thing in the photo is the new wing, which was oepened in edit: 1998 (the one which had the Tories foaming at the mouth because giving it a separate door was pandering to the SNP: yes, or rather no, I don't know why). The new wing takes a lot of exploring, right up to the rooftop garden (easily missed) and the eponymous Carnyx from Deskford (not sure if it is on display). The interior is surprising in its design - you ought to try it sometime. The exterior is clad in Scottish sandstone BTW. If you are pzzled by what looks like an entry tower the fortification theme is probably quite deliberate - I seem to remember that the architects Benson + Forsyth were echoing the Half-Moon Battery at the Castle over across Greyfriard Kirkyaird.
    I know the NMS well, and have visited it several times. A good museum. Yes I get the references to castles and warfare, the same way the Barbican is meant to be like a walled mini-city, where the Roman walls of London used to stand.

    I just think it is rather too brutal and clumsy, a touch uninspiring, and in the wrong place.

    But it is definitely the best of the three buildings we are discussing. At least it is clad in nice stone and has some integrity.

    Holyrood is downright hideous and this new hotel is scrotum-tighteningly awful. Like a nightmare.
    For reference this is the building the golden turd is replacing


    It's not good but it's better than that turd - but as my wife said it's Edinburgh and the planners there are useless,
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 58,286
    Alistair said:

    LadyG said:

    Carnyx said:

    FPT

    LadyG said:

    Carnyx said:

    LadyG said:

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Boris is correct. For the Tories and Labour devolution has been a disaster... :D:D


    This chap is not a pro-indy commentator.
    WTF are they doing to Edinburgh?

    Look at this thing



    PS I'm noit sure that it is any consolation that it replaced the St James Centre and its associated footbridge which wrecked a crucial vista from the North Bridge/Walterloo Place/Princes St junctrion ...
    Poor Edinburgh. It's also had to suffer Holyrood


    https://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2017/11/07/security-alert-sparked-holyrood

    Which, as time goes by, looks increasingly like a weirdly ugly sports hall on the outskirts of an over ambitious county town in mid Wales. And also the National Museum for Scotland, which looks like a car park for Category A prisoners

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Museum_of_Scotland#/media/File:Museum_of_Scotland.jpg


    Most of the NMS is actually a conglomerate of late C19 aqnd early C20 galleries, soemwhat modernised in places, but with a lovely Victorian Venetian (?) exterior. The thing in the photo is the new wing, which was oepened in edit: 1998 (the one which had the Tories foaming at the mouth because giving it a separate door was pandering to the SNP: yes, or rather no, I don't know why). The new wing takes a lot of exploring, right up to the rooftop garden (easily missed) and the eponymous Carnyx from Deskford (not sure if it is on display). The interior is surprising in its design - you ought to try it sometime. The exterior is clad in Scottish sandstone BTW. If you are pzzled by what looks like an entry tower the fortification theme is probably quite deliberate - I seem to remember that the architects Benson + Forsyth were echoing the Half-Moon Battery at the Castle over across Greyfriard Kirkyaird.
    I know the NMS well, and have visited it several times. A good museum. Yes I get the references to castles and warfare, the same way the Barbican is meant to be like a walled mini-city, where the Roman walls of London used to stand.

    I just think it is rather too brutal and clumsy, a touch uninspiring, and in the wrong place.

    But it is definitely the best of the three buildings we are discussing. At least it is clad in nice stone and has some integrity.

    Holyrood is downright hideous and this new hotel is scrotum-tighteningly awful. Like a nightmare.
    For reference this is the building the golden turd is replacing


    Technically an improvement.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 19,566

    So basically, they are not happy with the cast?
    I think he wrote it on the fly.
  • We are getting buttered up for extension of lockdown....

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 51,201
    edited November 16
    Trust the guardian to find the negative....in the small print, oxford results imminent.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 37,625

    We are getting buttered up for extension of lockdown....

    Almost certainly seeing as Johnson apparently told a load of worried senior business people on a conference call that there would not be a continuation of the lockdown.

    So it's a slam dunk frankly.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 4,649
    FPT:
    MattW said:

    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    IMO Japan has the most impressive vaccine portfolio so far, 120m Pfizer doses and 80m Moderna doses all due for Q1 2021 delivery. That's 100m people's worth of vaccine of the two fastest candidates and they both have around 95% effectiveness.

    Absolutely smashed it.

    Picking winners from vaccines is like trying to predict the premier league scores every week. You can use logic and data, but every round there is a huge amount of luck.

    If the Oxford one comes good in 2-3 weeks, UK will have 100+ million doses secured across 3 vaccines all for delivery before realistically we can physically give it to everybody. If that turns out to be the case, the UK will have also smashed it. Worst case scenario, we can already have enough for 1/2 population, which is good going.

    The big task now is getting it rolled out to people.
    Not to everyone, surely. Those who regarded the virus as a hoax, or nothing worse than a cold or mild flu, will surely not want to bother taking it.
    Well obviously the likes of Piers Corbyn won't be queuing up to get it.
    Without wanting to give too much away, I'm hearing that many many retailers and entertainment/eating venues in the UK will only let in people who can prove they've had the vaccine.

    I know Ticketmaster US have denied such a policy, but I reckon it is inevitable here and elsewhere.

    Go to Cineworld cinemas because we only let in vaccinated people*, eat at Pizza Hut because we only let in vaccinated people* etc etc.

    *I suspect they'll also let in people who cannot have a vaccine for medical reasons.
    I'd be OK with this assuming supply was plentiful. Having to stay inside and not be able to socialise because you weren't yet selected for a vaccine sounds awful.
    If it goes to plan, I suspect we'd have the vulnerable and key workers vaccinated by the summer of 2021 and everyone else by some time in 2022.
    Expect a howl of special pleading over what is a "key worker."
    Timpsons and Locksmiths....

    I know I have only just arrived, but I will now do the hat and coat walk of shame.....
    Piano tuners.
    I could go back to my old job of programming. 102 keys on a keyboard need bashing, admittedly some more than others....

    Programmer for hire: will work anywhere that has an IBM Model M keyboard because it is the only decent one ever made. IBM 3179 terminals may also be considered....
    Bet you can't do a Haiku about an IBM keyboard.
    Agadoo doo doo
    Write an IBM Haiku
    Has been done done done..
    Repetitive knockings
    The beetle's head hurts sorely
    But the wall endures
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 18,324
    LadyG said:
    You are very late in this. We did the mocking of Tegnell a couple of threads back.
  • Roy_G_BivRoy_G_Biv Posts: 998
    MaxPB said:

    In terms of independence devolution has been a disaster. It has been enabled by devolution. Any unionist should see that but it will never go back to how it was, the genie can't be put back in the bottle.

    The solution is and always has been to force these devolved administrations to take fiscal responsibility for their decisions, I'd do it with some kind of new settlement which allows much more variation on tax and expenditure and borrowing abilities but also completely axing the subsidy from England and redirecting the money to the North where it's needed a lot more. If a devolved nation overborrows and goes bankrupt then it gets taken over and run from Westminster and has all the same policies and tax rates as England. No second chance either.

    "Boy oh boy, I've got this great petard! I sure can't wait to see who gets host by this badboy."
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 7,783
    Scott_xP said:
    And remember how desperate the Tories have been to see Mr Leonard replaced as Slab leader so they can have some remotely credible tactical voting, and someone to front for them in indyref 2 like they got Slab to front for them in 2014.

    The Black Watch news is just the cherry and dragees on the top of the gilded turd, to use a topical expression.
  • Roy_G_BivRoy_G_Biv Posts: 998
    Scott_xP said:
    He's right. And Murray knows a damn sight more about this stuff than Johnson.
    I think Murray is a shoe-in for BetterTogether2. It's not a job he'll want, but he's the right man for it and he'll take it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 7,783
    Foxy said:

    Carnyx said:
    Bloody hell, they want Scottish independence so that they can maintain their hegemony over England.
    Given the polling that a lot of Tories don't give a monkey's about Scotland, one does wonder. Anyway I'm off to bed more than a little gobsmacked, but will have a look tomorrow to see what new wheezes have been come up with.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 4,649
    Foxy said:

    So basically, they are not happy with the cast?
    I think he wrote it on the fly.
    Casino is a fisherman??? :D
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 2,152
    Renowned international architect, seeking quintessential and traditional Scottish theme, accidentally clicks wrong website when researching 'curling'???
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 35,068

    MaxPB said:

    In terms of independence devolution has been a disaster. It has been enabled by devolution. Any unionist should see that but it will never go back to how it was, the genie can't be put back in the bottle.

    The solution is and always has been to force these devolved administrations to take fiscal responsibility for their decisions, I'd do it with some kind of new settlement which allows much more variation on tax and expenditure and borrowing abilities but also completely axing the subsidy from England and redirecting the money to the North where it's needed a lot more. If a devolved nation overborrows and goes bankrupt then it gets taken over and run from Westminster and has all the same policies and tax rates as England. No second chance either.

    Alternatively, go the whole hog and make all four countries "independent" with tax powers and create a Federal UK govt which deals with foreign issues and defence.
    First foreign issue: what's our relationship with the EU?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 14,624

    MaxPB said:

    In terms of independence devolution has been a disaster. It has been enabled by devolution. Any unionist should see that but it will never go back to how it was, the genie can't be put back in the bottle.

    The solution is and always has been to force these devolved administrations to take fiscal responsibility for their decisions, I'd do it with some kind of new settlement which allows much more variation on tax and expenditure and borrowing abilities but also completely axing the subsidy from England and redirecting the money to the North where it's needed a lot more. If a devolved nation overborrows and goes bankrupt then it gets taken over and run from Westminster and has all the same policies and tax rates as England. No second chance either.

    Alternatively, go the whole hog and make all four countries "independent" with tax powers and create a Federal UK govt which deals with foreign issues and defence.
    Very good suggestion. Far too good for this government.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 58,286

    MaxPB said:

    In terms of independence devolution has been a disaster. It has been enabled by devolution. Any unionist should see that but it will never go back to how it was, the genie can't be put back in the bottle.

    The solution is and always has been to force these devolved administrations to take fiscal responsibility for their decisions, I'd do it with some kind of new settlement which allows much more variation on tax and expenditure and borrowing abilities but also completely axing the subsidy from England and redirecting the money to the North where it's needed a lot more. If a devolved nation overborrows and goes bankrupt then it gets taken over and run from Westminster and has all the same policies and tax rates as England. No second chance either.

    Alternatively, go the whole hog and make all four countries "independent" with tax powers and create a Federal UK govt which deals with foreign issues and defence.
    Too late for that, I expect. The ball is already rolling.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 7,783
    edited November 16
    Pro_Rata said:

    Renowned international architect, seeking quintessential and traditional Scottish theme, accidentally clicks wrong website when researching 'curling'???

    You might actually be right.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walnut_Whip

    edit: "manufactured by Duncan's of Edinburgh in their Beaverhall Road factory"
  • Roy_G_BivRoy_G_Biv Posts: 998
    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    In terms of independence devolution has been a disaster. It has been enabled by devolution. Any unionist should see that but it will never go back to how it was, the genie can't be put back in the bottle.

    The solution is and always has been to force these devolved administrations to take fiscal responsibility for their decisions, I'd do it with some kind of new settlement which allows much more variation on tax and expenditure and borrowing abilities but also completely axing the subsidy from England and redirecting the money to the North where it's needed a lot more. If a devolved nation overborrows and goes bankrupt then it gets taken over and run from Westminster and has all the same policies and tax rates as England. No second chance either.

    Alternatively, go the whole hog and make all four countries "independent" with tax powers and create a Federal UK govt which deals with foreign issues and defence.
    Too late for that, I expect. The ball is already rolling.
    One wonders who dropped it
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 14,624
    Tories need to ditch Johnson urgently to have any chance of saving the Union.

    Some journo needs to ask Sunak for his views on devolution.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 62,626
    Georgia recount has unearthed 1,643 votes for Donald Trump & 865 for Biden as a result of a fuck up in Floyd County (Heavy R).
    MAGA Twitter and Trump are going to go mental over this for a while.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 35,068

    Tories need to ditch Johnson urgently to have any chance of saving the Union.

    Some journo needs to ask Sunak for his views on devolution.

    He's reported to have told someone that England should leave the UK because it doesn't make financial sense.

    https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18353074.rishi-sunak-denies-backing-break-up-uk-insists-strong-believer-union/
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 14,624
    Pulpstar said:

    Georgia recount has unearthed 1,643 votes for Donald Trump & 865 for Biden as a result of a fuck up in Floyd County (Heavy R).
    MAGA Twitter and Trump are going to go mental over this for a while.

    Do you know how far through the hand recount they are?
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 4,649

    MaxPB said:

    In terms of independence devolution has been a disaster. It has been enabled by devolution. Any unionist should see that but it will never go back to how it was, the genie can't be put back in the bottle.

    The solution is and always has been to force these devolved administrations to take fiscal responsibility for their decisions, I'd do it with some kind of new settlement which allows much more variation on tax and expenditure and borrowing abilities but also completely axing the subsidy from England and redirecting the money to the North where it's needed a lot more. If a devolved nation overborrows and goes bankrupt then it gets taken over and run from Westminster and has all the same policies and tax rates as England. No second chance either.

    Alternatively, go the whole hog and make all four countries "independent" with tax powers and create a Federal UK govt which deals with foreign issues and defence.
    First foreign issue: what's our relationship with the EU?
    Pariah State.

    :D:D
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 4,649
    Roy_G_Biv said:

    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    In terms of independence devolution has been a disaster. It has been enabled by devolution. Any unionist should see that but it will never go back to how it was, the genie can't be put back in the bottle.

    The solution is and always has been to force these devolved administrations to take fiscal responsibility for their decisions, I'd do it with some kind of new settlement which allows much more variation on tax and expenditure and borrowing abilities but also completely axing the subsidy from England and redirecting the money to the North where it's needed a lot more. If a devolved nation overborrows and goes bankrupt then it gets taken over and run from Westminster and has all the same policies and tax rates as England. No second chance either.

    Alternatively, go the whole hog and make all four countries "independent" with tax powers and create a Federal UK govt which deals with foreign issues and defence.
    Too late for that, I expect. The ball is already rolling.
    One wonders who dropped it
    Tony Blair, closely followed by David Cameron.

    Blair deserves at least ¾ of the blame IMO
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 62,626

    Pulpstar said:

    Georgia recount has unearthed 1,643 votes for Donald Trump & 865 for Biden as a result of a fuck up in Floyd County (Heavy R).
    MAGA Twitter and Trump are going to go mental over this for a while.

    Do you know how far through the hand recount they are?
    I think they're most of the way through it - Floyd's election director is going to get fired over it. It's bad it's happened but this might overtake it as a headline
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 22,995
    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:
    And remember how desperate the Tories have been to see Mr Leonard replaced as Slab leader so they can have some remotely credible tactical voting, and someone to front for them in indyref 2 like they got Slab to front for them in 2014.

    The Black Watch news is just the cherry and dragees on the top of the gilded turd, to use a topical expression.
    The one thing to be said for the new St James excrescence is that it's definitive proof that you can polish a turd.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 2,634
    Carnyx said:

    LadyG said:

    Carnyx said:

    FPT

    LadyG said:

    Carnyx said:

    LadyG said:

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Boris is correct. For the Tories and Labour devolution has been a disaster... :D:D


    This chap is not a pro-indy commentator.
    WTF are they doing to Edinburgh?

    Look at this thing



    PS I'm noit sure that it is any consolation that it replaced the St James Centre and its associated footbridge which wrecked a crucial vista from the North Bridge/Walterloo Place/Princes St junctrion ...
    Poor Edinburgh. It's also had to suffer Holyrood


    https://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2017/11/07/security-alert-sparked-holyrood

    Which, as time goes by, looks increasingly like a weirdly ugly sports hall on the outskirts of an over ambitious county town in mid Wales. And also the National Museum for Scotland, which looks like a car park for Category A prisoners

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Museum_of_Scotland#/media/File:Museum_of_Scotland.jpg


    Most of the NMS is actually a conglomerate of late C19 aqnd early C20 galleries, soemwhat modernised in places, but with a lovely Victorian Venetian (?) exterior. The thing in the photo is the new wing, which was oepened in edit: 1998 (the one which had the Tories foaming at the mouth because giving it a separate door was pandering to the SNP: yes, or rather no, I don't know why). The new wing takes a lot of exploring, right up to the rooftop garden (easily missed) and the eponymous Carnyx from Deskford (not sure if it is on display). The interior is surprising in its design - you ought to try it sometime. The exterior is clad in Scottish sandstone BTW. If you are pzzled by what looks like an entry tower the fortification theme is probably quite deliberate - I seem to remember that the architects Benson + Forsyth were echoing the Half-Moon Battery at the Castle over across Greyfriard Kirkyaird.
    I know the NMS well, and have visited it several times. A good museum. Yes I get the references to castles and warfare, the same way the Barbican is meant to be like a walled mini-city, where the Roman walls of London used to stand.

    I just think it is rather too brutal and clumsy, a touch uninspiring, and in the wrong place.

    But it is definitely the best of the three buildings we are discussing. At least it is clad in nice stone and has some integrity.

    Holyrood is downright hideous and this new hotel is scrotum-tighteningly awful. Like a nightmare.
    Scrotum-tightening is certainly the right expression when you consider how such a shape is produced!
    I thought the compound was coined by Joyce as a (rather apt!) epithet for the sea...
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 1,806
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Georgia recount has unearthed 1,643 votes for Donald Trump & 865 for Biden as a result of a fuck up in Floyd County (Heavy R).
    MAGA Twitter and Trump are going to go mental over this for a while.

    Do you know how far through the hand recount they are?
    I think they're most of the way through it - Floyd's election director is going to get fired over it. It's bad it's happened but this might overtake it as a headline
    Looks like Raffensperger may switch parties if this continues. However, he is only coming under criticism for the agreement he reached with the Democrats in March, which is now being challenged.

    Re Floyd, it’s a fairly major f*ck up. Looking at the SOS site, that’s around 7% of the votes cast there.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 62,626
    edited November 16
    MrEd said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Georgia recount has unearthed 1,643 votes for Donald Trump & 865 for Biden as a result of a fuck up in Floyd County (Heavy R).
    MAGA Twitter and Trump are going to go mental over this for a while.

    Do you know how far through the hand recount they are?
    I think they're most of the way through it - Floyd's election director is going to get fired over it. It's bad it's happened but this might overtake it as a headline
    Looks like Raffensperger may switch parties if this continues. However, he is only coming under criticism for the agreement he reached with the Democrats in March, which is now being challenged.

    Re Floyd, it’s a fairly major f*ck up. Looking at the SOS site, that’s around 7% of the votes cast there.
    Yes Floyd is a definite fuck up but this is the only county with such an error. Errors happen, the hand recount found the error. Nothing sinister - the director of elections in Floyd county is highly unlikely to be a Biden voter given the r lean there (Even less so if he's elected)

    Lindsey Graham has prima facie tried to rig Georgia for Trump now. So who is doing the cheating ?

    Also I don't thinK Raffensberger will switch party, he'll have been a republican whilst Trump was schmoozing with the Clintons. Some MAGA may try and primary him though (Not sure if that can be a thing with SoS position though ?). It's vital actual conservatives like him stay in the GOP or the party will descend even further to the alt right fringes.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 2,634
    Sweden's full of Tories? Who knew?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 22,995
    Some of Montie's tears for yer delectation

  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 4,649
    MrEd said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Georgia recount has unearthed 1,643 votes for Donald Trump & 865 for Biden as a result of a fuck up in Floyd County (Heavy R).
    MAGA Twitter and Trump are going to go mental over this for a while.

    Do you know how far through the hand recount they are?
    I think they're most of the way through it - Floyd's election director is going to get fired over it. It's bad it's happened but this might overtake it as a headline
    Looks like Raffensperger may switch parties if this continues. However, he is only coming under criticism for the agreement he reached with the Democrats in March, which is now being challenged.

    Re Floyd, it’s a fairly major f*ck up. Looking at the SOS site, that’s around 7% of the votes cast there.
    Major??? Are you serious? It is 2,500 votes in a state where there were nearly 5 millions votes cast or about 0.05%

    Even if you look at differences, adding another 775 votes will not carry you over that 14,000 vote gap that Trump lost by.
  • Roy_G_BivRoy_G_Biv Posts: 998

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    In terms of independence devolution has been a disaster. It has been enabled by devolution. Any unionist should see that but it will never go back to how it was, the genie can't be put back in the bottle.

    The solution is and always has been to force these devolved administrations to take fiscal responsibility for their decisions, I'd do it with some kind of new settlement which allows much more variation on tax and expenditure and borrowing abilities but also completely axing the subsidy from England and redirecting the money to the North where it's needed a lot more. If a devolved nation overborrows and goes bankrupt then it gets taken over and run from Westminster and has all the same policies and tax rates as England. No second chance either.

    Alternatively, go the whole hog and make all four countries "independent" with tax powers and create a Federal UK govt which deals with foreign issues and defence.
    Too late for that, I expect. The ball is already rolling.
    One wonders who dropped it
    Tony Blair, closely followed by David Cameron.

    Blair deserves at least ¾ of the blame IMO
    Oddly, Blair was the last leader who united the electorates of England, Wales, and Scotland. Since him, it's been a case of England wanting one thing and Scotland and Wales wanting another, followed by all three wanting different things.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 3,926
    edited November 16

    MrEd said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Georgia recount has unearthed 1,643 votes for Donald Trump & 865 for Biden as a result of a fuck up in Floyd County (Heavy R).
    MAGA Twitter and Trump are going to go mental over this for a while.

    Do you know how far through the hand recount they are?
    I think they're most of the way through it - Floyd's election director is going to get fired over it. It's bad it's happened but this might overtake it as a headline
    Looks like Raffensperger may switch parties if this continues. However, he is only coming under criticism for the agreement he reached with the Democrats in March, which is now being challenged.

    Re Floyd, it’s a fairly major f*ck up. Looking at the SOS site, that’s around 7% of the votes cast there.
    Major??? Are you serious? It is 2,500 votes in a state where there were nearly 5 millions votes cast or about 0.05%

    Even if you look at differences, adding another 775 votes will not carry you over that 14,000 vote gap that Trump lost by.
    It's not "major" in terms of the state as a whole. Nobody is suggesting it changes the result in Georgia. It's pretty major in terms of a single county. It's about the size of a UK Parliamentary constituency. Imagine if 7% of votes went uncounted in a close-ish General Election? (not that i think it could happen under our processes).

    But also remember that US recounts aren't supposed to switch more than a few hundred votes. Errors like this clearly undermine faith in the system, and will inevitably lead to a higher threshold for recounts in the future.
  • Roy_G_BivRoy_G_Biv Posts: 998
    alex_ said:

    MrEd said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Georgia recount has unearthed 1,643 votes for Donald Trump & 865 for Biden as a result of a fuck up in Floyd County (Heavy R).
    MAGA Twitter and Trump are going to go mental over this for a while.

    Do you know how far through the hand recount they are?
    I think they're most of the way through it - Floyd's election director is going to get fired over it. It's bad it's happened but this might overtake it as a headline
    Looks like Raffensperger may switch parties if this continues. However, he is only coming under criticism for the agreement he reached with the Democrats in March, which is now being challenged.

    Re Floyd, it’s a fairly major f*ck up. Looking at the SOS site, that’s around 7% of the votes cast there.
    Major??? Are you serious? It is 2,500 votes in a state where there were nearly 5 millions votes cast or about 0.05%

    Even if you look at differences, adding another 775 votes will not carry you over that 14,000 vote gap that Trump lost by.
    It's not "major" in terms of the state as a whole. It's pretty major in terms of a single county. It's about the size of a UK Parliamentary constituency. Imagine if 7% of votes went uncounted in a close-ish General Election? (not that i think it could happen under our processes)
    But, as you'll know, counties count for nothing in a presidential election.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 10,523
    Roy_G_Biv said:

    Scott_xP said:
    He's right. And Murray knows a damn sight more about this stuff than Johnson.
    I think Murray is a shoe-in for BetterTogether2. It's not a job he'll want, but he's the right man for it and he'll take it.
    Maybe so - though Tam Dalyell was right.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 3,926
    Roy_G_Biv said:

    alex_ said:

    MrEd said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Georgia recount has unearthed 1,643 votes for Donald Trump & 865 for Biden as a result of a fuck up in Floyd County (Heavy R).
    MAGA Twitter and Trump are going to go mental over this for a while.

    Do you know how far through the hand recount they are?
    I think they're most of the way through it - Floyd's election director is going to get fired over it. It's bad it's happened but this might overtake it as a headline
    Looks like Raffensperger may switch parties if this continues. However, he is only coming under criticism for the agreement he reached with the Democrats in March, which is now being challenged.

    Re Floyd, it’s a fairly major f*ck up. Looking at the SOS site, that’s around 7% of the votes cast there.
    Major??? Are you serious? It is 2,500 votes in a state where there were nearly 5 millions votes cast or about 0.05%

    Even if you look at differences, adding another 775 votes will not carry you over that 14,000 vote gap that Trump lost by.
    It's not "major" in terms of the state as a whole. It's pretty major in terms of a single county. It's about the size of a UK Parliamentary constituency. Imagine if 7% of votes went uncounted in a close-ish General Election? (not that i think it could happen under our processes)
    But, as you'll know, counties count for nothing in a presidential election.
    Of course not - but that's not the point. Part of the reason why it takes so long to count US elections is because they claim to aspire for extremely high accuracy and it is actually supposed to mean something that every vote is counted. Regardless of margin of victory. New York are still going despite the result not being remotely in doubt. When counting centres are devolved there is also always potential for just a small number of counties to have a major impact. You see Republicans making all sort of crazy allegations about places like Atlanta and Philadephia. But the larger counties are easy targets. And a good cover to get up to all sorts of nonsense across the smaller ones. And i'll bet it has been. Which can still have an impact.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 9,293
    Pulpstar said:

    MrEd said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Georgia recount has unearthed 1,643 votes for Donald Trump & 865 for Biden as a result of a fuck up in Floyd County (Heavy R).
    MAGA Twitter and Trump are going to go mental over this for a while.

    Do you know how far through the hand recount they are?
    I think they're most of the way through it - Floyd's election director is going to get fired over it. It's bad it's happened but this might overtake it as a headline
    Looks like Raffensperger may switch parties if this continues. However, he is only coming under criticism for the agreement he reached with the Democrats in March, which is now being challenged.

    Re Floyd, it’s a fairly major f*ck up. Looking at the SOS site, that’s around 7% of the votes cast there.
    Yes Floyd is a definite fuck up but this is the only county with such an error. Errors happen, the hand recount found the error. Nothing sinister - the director of elections in Floyd county is highly unlikely to be a Biden voter given the r lean there (Even less so if he's elected)

    Lindsey Graham has prima facie tried to rig Georgia for Trump now. So who is doing the cheating ?

    Also I don't thinK Raffensberger will switch party, he'll have been a republican whilst Trump was schmoozing with the Clintons. Some MAGA may try and primary him though (Not sure if that can be a thing with SoS position though ?). It's vital actual conservatives like him stay in the GOP or the party will descend even further to the alt right fringes.
    Raffensperger is emerging as one of the heroes of the election.
    By simply trying to run a fair process.
    Which says it all really.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 62,626
    edited November 16
    alex_ said:

    MrEd said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Georgia recount has unearthed 1,643 votes for Donald Trump & 865 for Biden as a result of a fuck up in Floyd County (Heavy R).
    MAGA Twitter and Trump are going to go mental over this for a while.

    Do you know how far through the hand recount they are?
    I think they're most of the way through it - Floyd's election director is going to get fired over it. It's bad it's happened but this might overtake it as a headline
    Looks like Raffensperger may switch parties if this continues. However, he is only coming under criticism for the agreement he reached with the Democrats in March, which is now being challenged.

    Re Floyd, it’s a fairly major f*ck up. Looking at the SOS site, that’s around 7% of the votes cast there.
    Major??? Are you serious? It is 2,500 votes in a state where there were nearly 5 millions votes cast or about 0.05%

    Even if you look at differences, adding another 775 votes will not carry you over that 14,000 vote gap that Trump lost by.
    It's not "major" in terms of the state as a whole. Nobody is suggesting it changes the result in Georgia. It's pretty major in terms of a single county. It's about the size of a UK Parliamentary constituency. Imagine if 7% of votes went uncounted in a close-ish General Election? (not that i think it could happen under our processes).

    But also remember that US recounts aren't supposed to switch more than a few hundred votes. Errors like this clearly undermine faith in the system, and will inevitably lead to a higher threshold for recounts in the future.
    The biggest problem they have is that each ballot has about 20 different things to vote on.

    Above each voter is state house, state senate; house, senate, president.
    I find the two year house cycle particularly mad, if you're in a swing seat it means you're in an almost perpetual state of election.

    New York has some uncalled close house races right now. It's probably the worst run state in the country for elections.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 15,619

    MrEd said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Georgia recount has unearthed 1,643 votes for Donald Trump & 865 for Biden as a result of a fuck up in Floyd County (Heavy R).
    MAGA Twitter and Trump are going to go mental over this for a while.

    Do you know how far through the hand recount they are?
    I think they're most of the way through it - Floyd's election director is going to get fired over it. It's bad it's happened but this might overtake it as a headline
    Looks like Raffensperger may switch parties if this continues. However, he is only coming under criticism for the agreement he reached with the Democrats in March, which is now being challenged.

    Re Floyd, it’s a fairly major f*ck up. Looking at the SOS site, that’s around 7% of the votes cast there.
    Major??? Are you serious? It is 2,500 votes in a state where there were nearly 5 millions votes cast or about 0.05%

    Even if you look at differences, adding another 775 votes will not carry you over that 14,000 vote gap that Trump lost by.
    Major in respect of Floyd only.

    2 to 1 split to Trump looks about right 1650/ 850 so closes gap a little but if thats it GA is Biden by over 13k
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 9,293
    Pulpstar said:

    alex_ said:

    MrEd said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Georgia recount has unearthed 1,643 votes for Donald Trump & 865 for Biden as a result of a fuck up in Floyd County (Heavy R).
    MAGA Twitter and Trump are going to go mental over this for a while.

    Do you know how far through the hand recount they are?
    I think they're most of the way through it - Floyd's election director is going to get fired over it. It's bad it's happened but this might overtake it as a headline
    Looks like Raffensperger may switch parties if this continues. However, he is only coming under criticism for the agreement he reached with the Democrats in March, which is now being challenged.

    Re Floyd, it’s a fairly major f*ck up. Looking at the SOS site, that’s around 7% of the votes cast there.
    Major??? Are you serious? It is 2,500 votes in a state where there were nearly 5 millions votes cast or about 0.05%

    Even if you look at differences, adding another 775 votes will not carry you over that 14,000 vote gap that Trump lost by.
    It's not "major" in terms of the state as a whole. Nobody is suggesting it changes the result in Georgia. It's pretty major in terms of a single county. It's about the size of a UK Parliamentary constituency. Imagine if 7% of votes went uncounted in a close-ish General Election? (not that i think it could happen under our processes).

    But also remember that US recounts aren't supposed to switch more than a few hundred votes. Errors like this clearly undermine faith in the system, and will inevitably lead to a higher threshold for recounts in the future.
    The biggest problem they have is that each ballot has about 20 different things to vote on.

    Above each voter is state house, state senate; house, senate, president.
    I find the two year house cycle particularly mad, if you're in a swing seat it means you're in an almost perpetual state of election.
    And if you are in a safe seat you need to pander to your extreme. To prevent being primaried.
  • Roy_G_BivRoy_G_Biv Posts: 998

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    In terms of independence devolution has been a disaster. It has been enabled by devolution. Any unionist should see that but it will never go back to how it was, the genie can't be put back in the bottle.

    The solution is and always has been to force these devolved administrations to take fiscal responsibility for their decisions, I'd do it with some kind of new settlement which allows much more variation on tax and expenditure and borrowing abilities but also completely axing the subsidy from England and redirecting the money to the North where it's needed a lot more. If a devolved nation overborrows and goes bankrupt then it gets taken over and run from Westminster and has all the same policies and tax rates as England. No second chance either.

    Alternatively, go the whole hog and make all four countries "independent" with tax powers and create a Federal UK govt which deals with foreign issues and defence.
    Too late for that, I expect. The ball is already rolling.
    One wonders who dropped it
    Tony Blair, closely followed by David Cameron.

    Blair deserves at least ¾ of the blame IMO
    Oddly, Blair was the last leader who united the electorates of England, Wales, and Scotland. Since him, it's been a case of England wanting one thing and Scotland and Wales wanting another, followed by all three wanting different things.
    Well of course, He was the one who messed up the system, up to that point the country was united. He carved it up into what he seemed to think were unloseable areas for Labour. The Welsh vote was a particular disgrace where it was won by a miniscule fraction - something like 0.1%

    Once the regions all had their own assemblies then it was obvious that some of the loyalty would be switched away from Westminster and thus loosening the bonds that bound all four countries together.

    Like all "clever political wheezes", it was a bl**dy stupid thing to do that backfired like all these wheezes do.
    What difference does the margin make? More people wanted it than not, so it's only right it happened.
  • Roy_G_BivRoy_G_Biv Posts: 998

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    In terms of independence devolution has been a disaster. It has been enabled by devolution. Any unionist should see that but it will never go back to how it was, the genie can't be put back in the bottle.

    The solution is and always has been to force these devolved administrations to take fiscal responsibility for their decisions, I'd do it with some kind of new settlement which allows much more variation on tax and expenditure and borrowing abilities but also completely axing the subsidy from England and redirecting the money to the North where it's needed a lot more. If a devolved nation overborrows and goes bankrupt then it gets taken over and run from Westminster and has all the same policies and tax rates as England. No second chance either.

    Alternatively, go the whole hog and make all four countries "independent" with tax powers and create a Federal UK govt which deals with foreign issues and defence.
    Too late for that, I expect. The ball is already rolling.
    One wonders who dropped it
    Tony Blair, closely followed by David Cameron.

    Blair deserves at least ¾ of the blame IMO
    Oddly, Blair was the last leader who united the electorates of England, Wales, and Scotland. Since him, it's been a case of England wanting one thing and Scotland and Wales wanting another, followed by all three wanting different things.
    Well of course, He was the one who messed up the system, up to that point the country was united. He carved it up into what he seemed to think were unloseable areas for Labour. The Welsh vote was a particular disgrace where it was won by a miniscule fraction - something like 0.1%

    Once the regions all had their own assemblies then it was obvious that some of the loyalty would be switched away from Westminster and thus loosening the bonds that bound all four countries together.

    Like all "clever political wheezes", it was a bl**dy stupid thing to do that backfired like all these wheezes do.
    Also, the desire for devolution predates Blair's political career, and on top of that I do not think it's anything to do with carving off "safe" areas. At least, that's not what I was voting for. I was voting for Wales to have a measure of self governance, because there was a big democratic gap after 18 years of Conservative governments that Wales really, really did not want. Which brings us back to the pre-Blair era, when things were as they are again now, with Wales and Scotland wanting different things to England. The problem was there before Blair and devolution, and is there post-Blair and with devolution.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 62,626
    When Biden gets into power, an inquiry into the election needs to be launched. ALL OF IT. Doubt the GOP will be as happy to cooperate as they are to try and look into selective Biden won states now.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 4,649
    Roy_G_Biv said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    In terms of independence devolution has been a disaster. It has been enabled by devolution. Any unionist should see that but it will never go back to how it was, the genie can't be put back in the bottle.

    The solution is and always has been to force these devolved administrations to take fiscal responsibility for their decisions, I'd do it with some kind of new settlement which allows much more variation on tax and expenditure and borrowing abilities but also completely axing the subsidy from England and redirecting the money to the North where it's needed a lot more. If a devolved nation overborrows and goes bankrupt then it gets taken over and run from Westminster and has all the same policies and tax rates as England. No second chance either.

    Alternatively, go the whole hog and make all four countries "independent" with tax powers and create a Federal UK govt which deals with foreign issues and defence.
    Too late for that, I expect. The ball is already rolling.
    One wonders who dropped it
    Tony Blair, closely followed by David Cameron.

    Blair deserves at least ¾ of the blame IMO
    Oddly, Blair was the last leader who united the electorates of England, Wales, and Scotland. Since him, it's been a case of England wanting one thing and Scotland and Wales wanting another, followed by all three wanting different things.
    Well of course, He was the one who messed up the system, up to that point the country was united. He carved it up into what he seemed to think were unloseable areas for Labour. The Welsh vote was a particular disgrace where it was won by a miniscule fraction - something like 0.1%

    Once the regions all had their own assemblies then it was obvious that some of the loyalty would be switched away from Westminster and thus loosening the bonds that bound all four countries together.

    Like all "clever political wheezes", it was a bl**dy stupid thing to do that backfired like all these wheezes do.
    What difference does the margin make? More people wanted it than not, so it's only right it happened.
    From memory, only half the electorate voted and of that half, it was almost exactly 50/50.

    Like Cameron's Brexit referendum, no floor was applied. In many referenda, if a major change is being considered then often it has to reach some floor like 67% of those voting (or maybe all voters whether they vote or not)

    UK referenda of recent years seem to take the approach that if 10 voters turned out and voted 6/4 for something then "the Country has spoken". In reality, all it does is polarise the electorate and thus our current messes both internal and external
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 4,649
    Roy_G_Biv said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    In terms of independence devolution has been a disaster. It has been enabled by devolution. Any unionist should see that but it will never go back to how it was, the genie can't be put back in the bottle.

    The solution is and always has been to force these devolved administrations to take fiscal responsibility for their decisions, I'd do it with some kind of new settlement which allows much more variation on tax and expenditure and borrowing abilities but also completely axing the subsidy from England and redirecting the money to the North where it's needed a lot more. If a devolved nation overborrows and goes bankrupt then it gets taken over and run from Westminster and has all the same policies and tax rates as England. No second chance either.

    Alternatively, go the whole hog and make all four countries "independent" with tax powers and create a Federal UK govt which deals with foreign issues and defence.
    Too late for that, I expect. The ball is already rolling.
    One wonders who dropped it
    Tony Blair, closely followed by David Cameron.

    Blair deserves at least ¾ of the blame IMO
    Oddly, Blair was the last leader who united the electorates of England, Wales, and Scotland. Since him, it's been a case of England wanting one thing and Scotland and Wales wanting another, followed by all three wanting different things.
    Well of course, He was the one who messed up the system, up to that point the country was united. He carved it up into what he seemed to think were unloseable areas for Labour. The Welsh vote was a particular disgrace where it was won by a miniscule fraction - something like 0.1%

    Once the regions all had their own assemblies then it was obvious that some of the loyalty would be switched away from Westminster and thus loosening the bonds that bound all four countries together.

    Like all "clever political wheezes", it was a bl**dy stupid thing to do that backfired like all these wheezes do.
    What difference does the margin make? More people wanted it than not, so it's only right it happened.
    25.3% of Welsh voters wanted it. The other 74,7% did not or could not be bothered to get off their backsides. Figures like that are hardly a ringing endorsement of legitimacy, but we are were we are...
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 11,317
    I like the Edinburgh poo building. I think it's rather funny.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 11,317
    edited November 17
    One of the most criminal pieces of planner vandalism is this particular example from Newcastle's Bigg Market.


  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 2,629
    edited November 17
    dixiedean said:

    Pulpstar said:

    alex_ said:

    MrEd said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Georgia recount has unearthed 1,643 votes for Donald Trump & 865 for Biden as a result of a fuck up in Floyd County (Heavy R).
    MAGA Twitter and Trump are going to go mental over this for a while.

    Do you know how far through the hand recount they are?
    I think they're most of the way through it - Floyd's election director is going to get fired over it. It's bad it's happened but this might overtake it as a headline
    Looks like Raffensperger may switch parties if this continues. However, he is only coming under criticism for the agreement he reached with the Democrats in March, which is now being challenged.

    Re Floyd, it’s a fairly major f*ck up. Looking at the SOS site, that’s around 7% of the votes cast there.
    Major??? Are you serious? It is 2,500 votes in a state where there were nearly 5 millions votes cast or about 0.05%

    Even if you look at differences, adding another 775 votes will not carry you over that 14,000 vote gap that Trump lost by.
    It's not "major" in terms of the state as a whole. Nobody is suggesting it changes the result in Georgia. It's pretty major in terms of a single county. It's about the size of a UK Parliamentary constituency. Imagine if 7% of votes went uncounted in a close-ish General Election? (not that i think it could happen under our processes).

    But also remember that US recounts aren't supposed to switch more than a few hundred votes. Errors like this clearly undermine faith in the system, and will inevitably lead to a higher threshold for recounts in the future.
    The biggest problem they have is that each ballot has about 20 different things to vote on.

    Above each voter is state house, state senate; house, senate, president.
    I find the two year house cycle particularly mad, if you're in a swing seat it means you're in an almost perpetual state of election.
    And if you are in a safe seat you need to pander to your extreme. To prevent being primaried.
    There were eight successful primary challenges out of 380 incumbents seeking re-election to the House of Representatives this year. Three of those were scandal-based rather than mainly ideology-based (indeed one of those - Steve King - lost for being too extreme by expressing support for white supremecy). That was historically quite high - it was 4, 5 and 5 in the last three elections.

    That doesn't mean congressmen don't lean into their base - so there are probably a few more who survived primary challenge by pandering to the wings. But successful primary challenges aren't wildly common, and the defeated incumbent often has bigger flaws. The elections where people do tend to race to the extremes are primaries for vacant seats. Incumbents tend to go native more.

    I appreciate you're referring to a wider issue with state legislatures and I don't have the primary stats on that. But I am not convinced extremism (which certainly exists) is driven by the primary process.
  • Roy_G_Biv said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    In terms of independence devolution has been a disaster. It has been enabled by devolution. Any unionist should see that but it will never go back to how it was, the genie can't be put back in the bottle.

    The solution is and always has been to force these devolved administrations to take fiscal responsibility for their decisions, I'd do it with some kind of new settlement which allows much more variation on tax and expenditure and borrowing abilities but also completely axing the subsidy from England and redirecting the money to the North where it's needed a lot more. If a devolved nation overborrows and goes bankrupt then it gets taken over and run from Westminster and has all the same policies and tax rates as England. No second chance either.

    Alternatively, go the whole hog and make all four countries "independent" with tax powers and create a Federal UK govt which deals with foreign issues and defence.
    Too late for that, I expect. The ball is already rolling.
    One wonders who dropped it
    Tony Blair, closely followed by David Cameron.

    Blair deserves at least ¾ of the blame IMO
    Oddly, Blair was the last leader who united the electorates of England, Wales, and Scotland. Since him, it's been a case of England wanting one thing and Scotland and Wales wanting another, followed by all three wanting different things.
    Well of course, He was the one who messed up the system, up to that point the country was united. He carved it up into what he seemed to think were unloseable areas for Labour. The Welsh vote was a particular disgrace where it was won by a miniscule fraction - something like 0.1%

    Once the regions all had their own assemblies then it was obvious that some of the loyalty would be switched away from Westminster and thus loosening the bonds that bound all four countries together.

    Like all "clever political wheezes", it was a bl**dy stupid thing to do that backfired like all these wheezes do.
    What difference does the margin make? More people wanted it than not, so it's only right it happened.
    From memory, only half the electorate voted and of that half, it was almost exactly 50/50.

    Like Cameron's Brexit referendum, no floor was applied. In many referenda, if a major change is being considered then often it has to reach some floor like 67% of those voting (or maybe all voters whether they vote or not)

    UK referenda of recent years seem to take the approach that if 10 voters turned out and voted 6/4 for something then "the Country has spoken". In reality, all it does is polarise the electorate and thus our current messes both internal and external
    https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/10/18/the-nearest-run-thing/
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 35,068

    One of the most criminal pieces of planner vandalism is this particular example from Newcastle's Bigg Market.

    How about this one in Northampton? From this:
    image

    To this:
    image
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 9,293

    dixiedean said:

    Pulpstar said:

    alex_ said:

    MrEd said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Georgia recount has unearthed 1,643 votes for Donald Trump & 865 for Biden as a result of a fuck up in Floyd County (Heavy R).
    MAGA Twitter and Trump are going to go mental over this for a while.

    Do you know how far through the hand recount they are?
    I think they're most of the way through it - Floyd's election director is going to get fired over it. It's bad it's happened but this might overtake it as a headline
    Looks like Raffensperger may switch parties if this continues. However, he is only coming under criticism for the agreement he reached with the Democrats in March, which is now being challenged.

    Re Floyd, it’s a fairly major f*ck up. Looking at the SOS site, that’s around 7% of the votes cast there.
    Major??? Are you serious? It is 2,500 votes in a state where there were nearly 5 millions votes cast or about 0.05%

    Even if you look at differences, adding another 775 votes will not carry you over that 14,000 vote gap that Trump lost by.
    It's not "major" in terms of the state as a whole. Nobody is suggesting it changes the result in Georgia. It's pretty major in terms of a single county. It's about the size of a UK Parliamentary constituency. Imagine if 7% of votes went uncounted in a close-ish General Election? (not that i think it could happen under our processes).

    But also remember that US recounts aren't supposed to switch more than a few hundred votes. Errors like this clearly undermine faith in the system, and will inevitably lead to a higher threshold for recounts in the future.
    The biggest problem they have is that each ballot has about 20 different things to vote on.

    Above each voter is state house, state senate; house, senate, president.
    I find the two year house cycle particularly mad, if you're in a swing seat it means you're in an almost perpetual state of election.
    And if you are in a safe seat you need to pander to your extreme. To prevent being primaried.
    There were eight successful primary challenges out of 380 incumbents seeking re-election to the House of Representatives this year. Three of those were scandal-based rather than mainly ideology-based (indeed one of those - Steve King - lost for being too extreme by expressing support for white supremecy). That was historically quite high - it was 4, 5 and 5 in the last three elections.

    That doesn't mean congressmen don't lean into their base - so there are probably a few more who survived primary challenge by pandering to the wings. But successful primary challenges aren't wildly common, and the defeated incumbent often has bigger flaws. The elections where people do tend to race to the extremes are primaries for vacant seats. Incumbents tend to go native more.

    I appreciate you're referring to a wider issue with state legislatures and I don't have the primary stats on that. But I am not convinced extremism (which certainly exists) is driven by the primary process.
    Fair enough. I salute your greater knowledge. Thanks for educating me. :)
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 3,926

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    In terms of independence devolution has been a disaster. It has been enabled by devolution. Any unionist should see that but it will never go back to how it was, the genie can't be put back in the bottle.

    The solution is and always has been to force these devolved administrations to take fiscal responsibility for their decisions, I'd do it with some kind of new settlement which allows much more variation on tax and expenditure and borrowing abilities but also completely axing the subsidy from England and redirecting the money to the North where it's needed a lot more. If a devolved nation overborrows and goes bankrupt then it gets taken over and run from Westminster and has all the same policies and tax rates as England. No second chance either.

    Alternatively, go the whole hog and make all four countries "independent" with tax powers and create a Federal UK govt which deals with foreign issues and defence.
    Too late for that, I expect. The ball is already rolling.
    One wonders who dropped it
    Tony Blair, closely followed by David Cameron.

    Blair deserves at least ¾ of the blame IMO
    Oddly, Blair was the last leader who united the electorates of England, Wales, and Scotland. Since him, it's been a case of England wanting one thing and Scotland and Wales wanting another, followed by all three wanting different things.
    Well of course, He was the one who messed up the system, up to that point the country was united. He carved it up into what he seemed to think were unloseable areas for Labour. The Welsh vote was a particular disgrace where it was won by a miniscule fraction - something like 0.1%

    Once the regions all had their own assemblies then it was obvious that some of the loyalty would be switched away from Westminster and thus loosening the bonds that bound all four countries together.

    Like all "clever political wheezes", it was a bl**dy stupid thing to do that backfired like all these wheezes do.
    What difference does the margin make? More people wanted it than not, so it's only right it happened.
    From memory, only half the electorate voted and of that half, it was almost exactly 50/50.

    Like Cameron's Brexit referendum, no floor was applied. In many referenda, if a major change is being considered then often it has to reach some floor like 67% of those voting (or maybe all voters whether they vote or not)

    UK referenda of recent years seem to take the approach that if 10 voters turned out and voted 6/4 for something then "the Country has spoken". In reality, all it does is polarise the electorate and thus our current messes both internal and external
    The problem with the Brexit referendum was that they tried to maintain the fiction that it was 'advisory'. There would be no logic/purpose to a threshold for a referendum that was non-binding on the legislature. Possibly even it was deliberately designated as 'advisory' so as not to include a voting threshold. Of course once that excuse was made, it was then conveniently ditched later. Or at least Cameron was forced to repudiate the idea during the campaign in a vain attempt to discourage people from voting "leave" as a potential negotiating tactic to wring further conditions from the EU (something with Johnson himself deliberately floated to bring more votes to his side). Which arguably led to a lot of the subsequent polarisation and refusal from one side to fully accept the result.

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 9,293

    One of the most criminal pieces of planner vandalism is this particular example from Newcastle's Bigg Market.


    Nee bosh. An egregious example certainly . Tbf Newcastle has balanced it pretty well in general to my mind.
    And naebody gans doon the Bigg Market for the architecture, do they?
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