My gut instinct is that this will not help their run off campaigns - they are basically telling those who voted in the majority of the state that their votes were illegal, or slightly restated, that they should not have a legal vote. In Georgia ... Sounds just a tad racist.
Yep, that my read too. Perdue has now hitched himself to Leoffler. You can't walk this back.
That is a huge error.
Leoffler is the Georgian version of McSally.
I am bullish on the Dems in Georgia but though a good chance of Perdue winning and Loeffler losing. I think they go down together now.
Trump could run again but I think Vice President would still be favourite for the GOP nomination eg in France in 2017 Sarkozy ran for the Les Republicains nomination after losing the presidency in 2012 but lost it to his PM Fillon who went on to lose the presidential election to Macron.
In 1980 after Carter lost, the last President before Trump who lost the presidential election after only one term of his party in the White House, his Vice President Mondale won the nomination only to lose the general election to Reagan.
I agree Buttigieg would be a good bet for the Democrats in 2024 if Biden decides not to run for re election and only serve the one term
IF Biden doesn’t run in 2024, I think there will be a LOT of pressure to coalesce around Harris. Whatever your views may be of her as a candidate, her strengths and weaknesses etc. It would be bad optics to overlook an incumbent VP who wants it, particularly one who has made history already by virtue of being the first black and female VP.
Of course, she might choose not to run, but I don’t get that impression from her. I think she’s ambitious enough to go for it and of course she’s run before (not at all a criticism, just an observation). I do think, however, if she wants to win in 2024 she’s going to have to improve on her 2020 campaign(s). I think she’s very talented and very sharp but I found her a bit of a lacklustre campaigner, which I must admit surprised me.
I think she'd get it but doubt it would be unopposed.
People speak of Buttigieg, but I don't think he's the danger to her. He'd only be 50 if Biden served one term and she served two (and indeed, maybe he's a VP pick). And his sexuality only becomes less of an issue electorally over time. He's leapt from a small town to the national stage, and now needs to consolidate, work on the CV, win over black voters and progressives etc.
But Kamala Harris isn't the only Democrat who'll be 60+ in 2024. That generation probably won't get another chance (albeit Biden is the case that says it's not impossible). If you're Andrew Cuomo or Amy Klobuchar, you're being asked to give up your last chance for the sake of someone who, if you have the ego of a senior politician, you think has less chance of winning than you.
As I say, I suspect she'd get through it, but fully expect it to be contested.
I would hope that it is contested. The winnowing of the primaries, and the consequent platforms that are examined are an essential part of a strong democracy. For all its faults, the Primary selected a winner from a difficult field.
Coronations are rarely a good way of choosing, and Harris has 3 years with primaries, to prove that she deserves the nomination. She needs to make her mark fairly sharpish, with no sense of over entitlement. She is a sharp cookie, so I expect that she recognises that.
Even being President doesn't guarantee the nomination. I remember Reagan running quite a competitive primary campaign against Ford in '76.
It will probably be contested but half heartedly like Hillary facing Sanders as her contest.
Simply Harris as presumptive nominee will get all the smart money and names behind her squeezing out the others.
Plus she is a smart cookie as you said and is already making her mark. Her introduction of Biden in the victory speeches stole the show but without disrespecting him. The next day all the talk was about her. That was the speech of a future President.
Sanders contested Hillary's nomination "half heartedly" did he?
Gosh, my memory must be playing tricks with me.
No the party contested it half heartedly by only having Sanders (who never had a real shot) as the only alternative.
All the credible alternatives stood back leaning just Hillary as presumptive nominee and Sanders as the eccentric. Only thing is that Hillary was so crap that the eccentric gave her more of a running than he should have.
And that was with the party apparatus rigging it in Hillary's favour, too.
Precisely. It was designed as a coronation hence my half hearted remark. Sanders put his effort in but the party did not.
He says that he didn't know her name. I suppose I could use Google to see if there has ever been a more pathetic excuse.
Well, there’s Cummings and his eye test.
The best one I ever heard though was a pseudoscholar called David Fitzgerald, who claimed he had written a book proving a loony fringe theory to be true. On having it pointed out to him that he had offered no proof whatsoever, he said that the evidence was in his original draft but he left it out because it made the book too long.
Yes, that's pretty good in a Queen of Hearts kind of way.
Fermat's Last Theorem says hello.
That's a great story but was he not ultimately vindicated after the modest gap of 350 years or so? Who knows, in 2370 they may conclude that Trump really did win.
Yes and no. The theory was proven correct, but the proof he used cannot have been the modern one, and may not have been a valid proof.
It is disgusting and incomprehensible.
Bit harsh...
Not a fan of modern theatre?
Clearly not! Way over my head.
It’s a quotation from Tom Stoppard’s Arcadia:
Septimus: carnal embrace is sexual Congress by the insertion of the male genital organ into the female genital organ, for purposes of procreation and pleasure. Fermat’s Last Theorem, by contrast, states that no three positive integers a, b, and c satisfy the equation an + bn = cn for any integer value of n greater than 2.
Thomasina: Eurrghh!
Septimus: Nevertheless, that is the theorem.
Thomasina: it is disgusting and incomprehensible. Now, when I am grown to practice it myself I shall never be able to do it without thinking of you.
It is a great play: I wish there was a good filmed version out there.
Edit: I also like the idea of setting the proof of Fermat's last theorem in class in order to get someone to shut up for a bit...
"shine. When this verb is intransitive, it means “to give or make light”; the past tense is shone {the stars shone dimly}. When it is transitive, it means “to cause to shine”; the past tense is shined {the caterer shined the silver}."
Exactly. So it should have been "...has shone a light..."
"shine. When this verb is intransitive, it means “to give or make light”; the past tense is shone {the stars shone dimly}. When it is transitive, it means “to cause to shine”; the past tense is shined {the caterer shined the silver}."
Exactly. So it should have been "...has shone a light..."
Americans and Brits, a common people only separated by language.
My gut instinct is that this will not help their run off campaigns - they are basically telling those who voted in the majority of the state that their votes were illegal, or slightly restated, that they should not have a legal vote. In Georgia ... Sounds just a tad racist.
"shine. When this verb is intransitive, it means “to give or make light”; the past tense is shone {the stars shone dimly}. When it is transitive, it means “to cause to shine”; the past tense is shined {the caterer shined the silver}."
Exactly. So it should have been "...has shone a light..."
No. It is transitive. The intransitive would be 'the light shone', but here it is being used to light up something else, i.e. it is transitive (transferring the action from the subject to the object), so the light is shined on x.
At least that is US usage. Had I written it myself, I should probably have used 'shone'
"shine. When this verb is intransitive, it means “to give or make light”; the past tense is shone {the stars shone dimly}. When it is transitive, it means “to cause to shine”; the past tense is shined {the caterer shined the silver}."
Exactly. So it should have been "...has shone a light..."
Americans and Brits, a common people only separated by language.
Don't the Americans have "shone" but pronounce it "shown"? I have a vague memory it came up in Buffy the Vampire Slayer 20 years or so back.
It shows how far American has gone off the rails when the president elect has to tell people that wearing a mask isn't a political statement. Please just wear one.
Trump could run again but I think Vice President would still be favourite for the GOP nomination eg in France in 2017 Sarkozy ran for the Les Republicains nomination after losing the presidency in 2012 but lost it to his PM Fillon who went on to lose the presidential election to Macron.
In 1980 after Carter lost, the last President before Trump who lost the presidential election after only one term of his party in the White House, his Vice President Mondale won the nomination only to lose the general election to Reagan.
I agree Buttigieg would be a good bet for the Democrats in 2024 if Biden decides not to run for re election and only serve the one term
IF Biden doesn’t run in 2024, I think there will be a LOT of pressure to coalesce around Harris. Whatever your views may be of her as a candidate, her strengths and weaknesses etc. It would be bad optics to overlook an incumbent VP who wants it, particularly one who has made history already by virtue of being the first black and female VP.
Of course, she might choose not to run, but I don’t get that impression from her. I think she’s ambitious enough to go for it and of course she’s run before (not at all a criticism, just an observation). I do think, however, if she wants to win in 2024 she’s going to have to improve on her 2020 campaign(s). I think she’s very talented and very sharp but I found her a bit of a lacklustre campaigner, which I must admit surprised me.
I think she'd get it but doubt it would be unopposed.
People speak of Buttigieg, but I don't think he's the danger to her. He'd only be 50 if Biden served one term and she served two (and indeed, maybe he's a VP pick). And his sexuality only becomes less of an issue electorally over time. He's leapt from a small town to the national stage, and now needs to consolidate, work on the CV, win over black voters and progressives etc.
But Kamala Harris isn't the only Democrat who'll be 60+ in 2024. That generation probably won't get another chance (albeit Biden is the case that says it's not impossible). If you're Andrew Cuomo or Amy Klobuchar, you're being asked to give up your last chance for the sake of someone who, if you have the ego of a senior politician, you think has less chance of winning than you.
As I say, I suspect she'd get through it, but fully expect it to be contested.
I would hope that it is contested. The winnowing of the primaries, and the consequent platforms that are examined are an essential part of a strong democracy. For all its faults, the Primary selected a winner from a difficult field.
Coronations are rarely a good way of choosing, and Harris has 3 years with primaries, to prove that she deserves the nomination. She needs to make her mark fairly sharpish, with no sense of over entitlement. She is a sharp cookie, so I expect that she recognises that.
Even being President doesn't guarantee the nomination. I remember Reagan running quite a competitive primary campaign against Ford in '76.
It will probably be contested but half heartedly like Hillary facing Sanders as her contest.
Simply Harris as presumptive nominee will get all the smart money and names behind her squeezing out the others.
Plus she is a smart cookie as you said and is already making her mark. Her introduction of Biden in the victory speeches stole the show but without disrespecting him. The next day all the talk was about her. That was the speech of a future President.
Sanders contested Hillary's nomination "half heartedly" did he?
Gosh, my memory must be playing tricks with me.
No the party contested it half heartedly by only having Sanders (who never had a real shot) as the only alternative.
All the credible alternatives stood back leaning just Hillary as presumptive nominee and Sanders as the eccentric. Only thing is that Hillary was so crap that the eccentric gave her more of a running than he should have.
"The party" doesn't contest the primaries. Individuals do.
And even if your argument was right, 2016 is EXACTLY the case for credible candidates NOT giving Harris a pass. Those who ducked it in 2016 now realise they missed a huge chance against someone who was the "obvious" choice but ultimately wasn't a good campaigner and was beatable if only they'd gone for it rather than leaving it to an elderly socialist.
As I say, I think Harris will come through. But I don't think it'll be a coronation - it wasn't in 2016 as it turned out, and there's even less reason it will be in 2024 because of 2016.
I'm not saying she will get a pass, I'm saying she will get the nomination. As Veep she will have the benefit of incumbency and it's almost impossible for a challenger to defeat that.
2016 was the only Presidential election since before WWII that no incumbent sought election.
The last time an incumbent (President or Veep) was defeated for the nomination was 1968, with 1952 before then. Both very unpopular Presidents.
There is a reason incumbents normally get it and it's not because they get a pass, they have such a structural advantage you have to really screw up to throw it away.
"shine. When this verb is intransitive, it means “to give or make light”; the past tense is shone {the stars shone dimly}. When it is transitive, it means “to cause to shine”; the past tense is shined {the caterer shined the silver}."
Exactly. So it should have been "...has shone a light..."
Americans and Brits, a common people only separated by language.
Don't the Americans have "shone" but pronounce it "shown"? I have a vague memory it came up in Buffy the Vampire Slayer 20 years or so back.
Craig...Colin...buoy....they can't pronounce any of those properly.
I really don't get why so many are fighting this hard. You lose elections sometimes, it happens, you'll get another chance, but pulling this kind of crap escalates things to the whole system itself, for limited chance of success.
"shine. When this verb is intransitive, it means “to give or make light”; the past tense is shone {the stars shone dimly}. When it is transitive, it means “to cause to shine”; the past tense is shined {the caterer shined the silver}."
Exactly. So it should have been "...has shone a light..."
Americans and Brits, a common people only separated by language.
Don't the Americans have "shone" but pronounce it "shown"? I have a vague memory it came up in Buffy the Vampire Slayer 20 years or so back.
Craig...Colin...buoy....they can't pronounce any of those properly.
You forgot Graham, Anthony and a bunch more. Don't get me started on place names.
Anyone trying to give it the "Oh the Republican party are a legitimate and serious party of government" after today can get fucked.
This is breaking point. If they are actively backing Trump then they are fascists. If they are scared of being primaried by their base they they are despicable cowards. Maybe try not to have a base made up of facists you wankers.
I really don't get why so many are fighting this hard. You lose elections sometimes, it happens, you'll get another chance, but pulling this kind of crap escalates things to the whole system itself, for limited chance of success.
How is this behaviour worth it?
None of them want to go on the record as the first to betray Trump.
That's cowardly and bad for democracy, but can you blame them?
"shine. When this verb is intransitive, it means “to give or make light”; the past tense is shone {the stars shone dimly}. When it is transitive, it means “to cause to shine”; the past tense is shined {the caterer shined the silver}."
Exactly. So it should have been "...has shone a light..."
Americans and Brits, a common people only separated by language.
Don't the Americans have "shone" but pronounce it "shown"? I have a vague memory it came up in Buffy the Vampire Slayer 20 years or so back.
Craig...Colin...buoy....they can't pronounce any of those properly.
You forgot Graham, Anthony and a bunch more. Don't get me started on place names.
How does Anthony get mispronounced?! Surely not Anth-onee?
Yes its in play, if Kavanaugh, Barrett and Gorsuch are on board its the end of American democracy. 3 people from a successful coup.
I don’t think they would deliberately subvert democracy in a country where the sale of firearms is not restricted and the military are clearly happy with the idea of a new president.
Anyone trying to give it the "Oh the Republican party are a legitimate and serious party of government" after today can get fucked.
This is breaking point. If they are actively backing Trump then they are fascists. If they are scared of being primaried by their base they they are despicable cowards. Maybe try not to have a base made up of facists you wankers.
Your last sentence. This is what the GOP need to do if they are to be competitive into the future at national elections.
I really don't get why so many are fighting this hard. You lose elections sometimes, it happens, you'll get another chance, but pulling this kind of crap escalates things to the whole system itself, for limited chance of success.
How is this behaviour worth it?
None of them want to go on the record as the first to betray Trump.
That's cowardly and bad for democracy, but can you blame them?
Yada yada riding a tiger yada want to get off...
But they could keep quiet. Or say they support his using all legal avenues, but dial down the pathetic rhetoric. There are options besides slavish devotion, particularly when that devotion involves inpugning the reputations of many Republican officials as well.
"shine. When this verb is intransitive, it means “to give or make light”; the past tense is shone {the stars shone dimly}. When it is transitive, it means “to cause to shine”; the past tense is shined {the caterer shined the silver}."
Exactly. So it should have been "...has shone a light..."
Americans and Brits, a common people only separated by language.
Don't the Americans have "shone" but pronounce it "shown"? I have a vague memory it came up in Buffy the Vampire Slayer 20 years or so back.
Craig...Colin...buoy....they can't pronounce any of those properly.
You forgot Graham, Anthony and a bunch more. Don't get me started on place names.
How does Anthony get mispronounced?! Surely not Anth-onee?
I really don't get why so many are fighting this hard. You lose elections sometimes, it happens, you'll get another chance, but pulling this kind of crap escalates things to the whole system itself, for limited chance of success.
How is this behaviour worth it?
Sadly it appears a cancer has grown in the GOP in which elections are only fair if you win them.
It is sad to see such a shameful and tawdry display from what has been for decades an admittedly firmly right-wing, but patriotic and democracy-loving party.
I really don't get why so many are fighting this hard. You lose elections sometimes, it happens, you'll get another chance, but pulling this kind of crap escalates things to the whole system itself, for limited chance of success.
How is this behaviour worth it?
Republicans - at the core of it - are still furious Nixon was impeached. Fox News was specifically setup to prevent a Republican President from getting removed from power by impeachment They are furious that Bork was voted down (on bipartisan lines incidentally) - they believed that no-one involved in the Nixon administraion should have suffered consequences They were incandescent that Clinton beat Bush And they spent 8 years claiming that Obama was illegitimate - quite happily egging on racists Birther nonsense. Embracing the Tea Party movement. They were happily prepared to block H. Clinton appointing a Superem court justice is for her full term if she had beaten Trump.
"shine. When this verb is intransitive, it means “to give or make light”; the past tense is shone {the stars shone dimly}. When it is transitive, it means “to cause to shine”; the past tense is shined {the caterer shined the silver}."
Exactly. So it should have been "...has shone a light..."
Americans and Brits, a common people only separated by language.
Don't the Americans have "shone" but pronounce it "shown"? I have a vague memory it came up in Buffy the Vampire Slayer 20 years or so back.
Craig...Colin...buoy....they can't pronounce any of those properly.
You forgot Graham, Anthony and a bunch more. Don't get me started on place names.
How does Anthony get mispronounced?! Surely not Anth-onee?
Yes its in play, if Kavanaugh, Barrett and Gorsuch are on board its the end of American democracy. 3 people from a successful coup.
Bollocks! Ain't. Going. To. Happen.
I hope you are right and do think the Supreme court will stop it, but who else is going to stop it before it gets there?
In Georgia it looks like the local party are trying to kick out Raffensberger as he wont go along with it. They are doing these things to get yes men into all the key roles.
If they can replace the election officials and the supreme court does rule in their favour, then whats left to stop them?
"shine. When this verb is intransitive, it means “to give or make light”; the past tense is shone {the stars shone dimly}. When it is transitive, it means “to cause to shine”; the past tense is shined {the caterer shined the silver}."
Exactly. So it should have been "...has shone a light..."
Americans and Brits, a common people only separated by language.
Don't the Americans have "shone" but pronounce it "shown"? I have a vague memory it came up in Buffy the Vampire Slayer 20 years or so back.
Craig...Colin...buoy....they can't pronounce any of those properly.
You forgot Graham, Anthony and a bunch more. Don't get me started on place names.
"shine. When this verb is intransitive, it means “to give or make light”; the past tense is shone {the stars shone dimly}. When it is transitive, it means “to cause to shine”; the past tense is shined {the caterer shined the silver}."
Exactly. So it should have been "...has shone a light..."
Americans and Brits, a common people only separated by language.
Don't the Americans have "shone" but pronounce it "shown"? I have a vague memory it came up in Buffy the Vampire Slayer 20 years or so back.
Craig...Colin...buoy....they can't pronounce any of those properly.
You forgot Graham, Anthony and a bunch more. Don't get me started on place names.
How does Anthony get mispronounced?! Surely not Anth-onee?
Actually, my real pet peeve is their pronunciation of dew, duty etc... Pronounce doo, dooty. Then cannot hear the difference between dew (d'yew) and jew (j'yew), even when I speak them clearly and explain the phonetics and tongue positioning.
"shine. When this verb is intransitive, it means “to give or make light”; the past tense is shone {the stars shone dimly}. When it is transitive, it means “to cause to shine”; the past tense is shined {the caterer shined the silver}."
Exactly. So it should have been "...has shone a light..."
Americans and Brits, a common people only separated by language.
Don't the Americans have "shone" but pronounce it "shown"? I have a vague memory it came up in Buffy the Vampire Slayer 20 years or so back.
Craig...Colin...buoy....they can't pronounce any of those properly.
You forgot Graham, Anthony and a bunch more. Don't get me started on place names.
How does Anthony get mispronounced?! Surely not Anth-onee?
Actually, my real pet peeve is their pronunciation of dew, duty etc... Pronounce doo, dooty. Then cannot hear the difference between dew (d'yew) and jew (j'yew), even when I speak them clearly and explain the phonetics and tongue positioning.
Booooooo-weeeeee....When I first heard somebody say that, I honestly had no idea what they were talking about.
I really don't get why so many are fighting this hard. You lose elections sometimes, it happens, you'll get another chance, but pulling this kind of crap escalates things to the whole system itself, for limited chance of success.
How is this behaviour worth it?
Republicans - at the core of it - are still furious Nixon was impeached. Fox News was specifically setup to prevent a Republican President from getting removed from power by impeachment They are furious that Bork was voted down (on bipartisan lines incidentally) - they believed that no-one involved in the Nixon administraion should have suffered consequences They were incandescent that Clinton beat Bush And they spent 8 years claiming that Obama was illegitimate - quite happily egging on racists Birther nonsense. Embracing the Tea Party movement. They were happily prepared to block H. Clinton appointing a Superem court justice is for her full term if she had beaten Trump.
Only the Republicans should be allowed to rule.
This is not a decent political party, Trump's takeover was just the icing on the cake.
Yes its in play, if Kavanaugh, Barrett and Gorsuch are on board its the end of American democracy. 3 people from a successful coup.
Bollocks! Ain't. Going. To. Happen.
I hope you are right and do think the Supreme court will stop it, but who else is going to stop it before it gets there?
In Georgia it looks like the local party are trying to kick out Raffensberger as he wont go along with it. They are doing these things to get yes men into all the key roles.
If they can replace the election officials and the supreme court does rule in their favour, then whats left to stop them?
Civil war?
Seriously.
If the election were to be overturned in some kind of anti-Democratic coup I would absolutely not rule out the secession of the blue states.
"shine. When this verb is intransitive, it means “to give or make light”; the past tense is shone {the stars shone dimly}. When it is transitive, it means “to cause to shine”; the past tense is shined {the caterer shined the silver}."
Exactly. So it should have been "...has shone a light..."
Americans and Brits, a common people only separated by language.
Don't the Americans have "shone" but pronounce it "shown"? I have a vague memory it came up in Buffy the Vampire Slayer 20 years or so back.
Craig...Colin...buoy....they can't pronounce any of those properly.
You forgot Graham, Anthony and a bunch more. Don't get me started on place names.
How does Anthony get mispronounced?! Surely not Anth-onee?
An thon ee is the standard pronounciation in Australia.
"shine. When this verb is intransitive, it means “to give or make light”; the past tense is shone {the stars shone dimly}. When it is transitive, it means “to cause to shine”; the past tense is shined {the caterer shined the silver}."
Exactly. So it should have been "...has shone a light..."
Americans and Brits, a common people only separated by language.
Don't the Americans have "shone" but pronounce it "shown"? I have a vague memory it came up in Buffy the Vampire Slayer 20 years or so back.
Craig...Colin...buoy....they can't pronounce any of those properly.
You forgot Graham, Anthony and a bunch more. Don't get me started on place names.
How does Anthony get mispronounced?! Surely not Anth-onee?
Actually, my real pet peeve is their pronunciation of dew, duty etc... Pronounce doo, dooty. Then cannot hear the difference between dew (d'yew) and jew (j'yew), even when I speak them clearly and explain the phonetics and tongue positioning.
My favourite is when they try to say Worcestershire Sauce!
Edit: and don't they say "doodie" for duty, which sounds a bit like doing it is having a crap.
Yes its in play, if Kavanaugh, Barrett and Gorsuch are on board its the end of American democracy. 3 people from a successful coup.
Bollocks! Ain't. Going. To. Happen.
I hope you are right and do think the Supreme court will stop it, but who else is going to stop it before it gets there?
In Georgia it looks like the local party are trying to kick out Raffensberger as he wont go along with it. They are doing these things to get yes men into all the key roles.
If they can replace the election officials and the supreme court does rule in their favour, then whats left to stop them?
Rather than replacing the SoS haven't they got to find some evidence of, y'know, actual fraud and then place that in front of a court and have the court agree with them... all to the extent of 11,500+ votes and counting?
Would the PB headless chicken coup crowd kindly return to the oven.
There's as much chance of a coup as TSE becoming inaugurated on 20th January as President of the Pineapple Pizza Appreciation Society and burning his red shoes on the podium.
Yes its in play, if Kavanaugh, Barrett and Gorsuch are on board its the end of American democracy. 3 people from a successful coup.
Bollocks! Ain't. Going. To. Happen.
I hope you are right and do think the Supreme court will stop it, but who else is going to stop it before it gets there?
In Georgia it looks like the local party are trying to kick out Raffensberger as he wont go along with it. They are doing these things to get yes men into all the key roles.
If they can replace the election officials and the supreme court does rule in their favour, then whats left to stop them?
Civil war?
Seriously.
If the election were to be overturned in some kind of anti-Democratic coup I would absolutely not rule out the secession of the blue states.
The president, vice president, the attorney general, his advisors, the leader of the senate are all on board and putting in place a coup.
I would love it not to happen and think they will fail eventually. At the moment I cant see who stops them before it gets to the supreme court.
What are the practical steps that stop it reaching the supreme court where we would be relying on Trump appointees.
Saying it wont happen because "it cant happen" without an answer isnt answering the question.
Yes its in play, if Kavanaugh, Barrett and Gorsuch are on board its the end of American democracy. 3 people from a successful coup.
Bollocks! Ain't. Going. To. Happen.
I hope you are right and do think the Supreme court will stop it, but who else is going to stop it before it gets there?
In Georgia it looks like the local party are trying to kick out Raffensberger as he wont go along with it. They are doing these things to get yes men into all the key roles.
If they can replace the election officials and the supreme court does rule in their favour, then whats left to stop them?
Civil war?
Seriously.
If the election were to be overturned in some kind of anti-Democratic coup I would absolutely not rule out the secession of the blue states.
How can the courts institute a coup? Isn't that a contradiction in terms. A few months ago we were told that the UK Supreme Court was ordering the government what to do in this country in order to stop a coup from happening. Let's not forget Gina Miller was using the courts to try to overturn the democratic outcome of the Brexit referendum.
"shine. When this verb is intransitive, it means “to give or make light”; the past tense is shone {the stars shone dimly}. When it is transitive, it means “to cause to shine”; the past tense is shined {the caterer shined the silver}."
Exactly. So it should have been "...has shone a light..."
Americans and Brits, a common people only separated by language.
Don't the Americans have "shone" but pronounce it "shown"? I have a vague memory it came up in Buffy the Vampire Slayer 20 years or so back.
Craig...Colin...buoy....they can't pronounce any of those properly.
You forgot Graham, Anthony and a bunch more. Don't get me started on place names.
How does Anthony get mispronounced?! Surely not Anth-onee?
Actually, my real pet peeve is their pronunciation of dew, duty etc... Pronounce doo, dooty. Then cannot hear the difference between dew (d'yew) and jew (j'yew), even when I speak them clearly and explain the phonetics and tongue positioning.
My favourite is when they try to say Worcestershire Sauce!
Edit: and don't they say "doodie" for duty, which sounds a bit like doing it is having a crap.
Yes its in play, if Kavanaugh, Barrett and Gorsuch are on board its the end of American democracy. 3 people from a successful coup.
Bollocks! Ain't. Going. To. Happen.
I hope you are right and do think the Supreme court will stop it, but who else is going to stop it before it gets there?
In Georgia it looks like the local party are trying to kick out Raffensberger as he wont go along with it. They are doing these things to get yes men into all the key roles.
If they can replace the election officials and the supreme court does rule in their favour, then whats left to stop them?
Rather than replacing the SoS haven't they got to find some evidence of, y'know, actual fraud and then place that in front of a court and have the court agree with them... all to the extent of 11,500+ votes and counting?
I dont think so. If the new SoS says the election is invalid, it gives them cover to replace the EC delegates with ones chosen by the state legislatures.
Since 1928 only three elections have not had an incumbent President or Veep as the nominee on the ballot: 1952, 1968 and 2016.
....
And in 1968 although there was no incumbent P or VP, Nixon had already been VP for 8 years.
Indeed.
So since the Wall Street Crash only 1952 and 2016 had no current or former P or VP on a ticket. Some years both parties did (eg Reagan v Mondale or Trump v Biden).
The odds have to be overwhelming favourite for her to be the nominee. Xkcd applies, she might lose, but it would go against all precedent for her to do so.
Yes its in play, if Kavanaugh, Barrett and Gorsuch are on board its the end of American democracy. 3 people from a successful coup.
Bollocks! Ain't. Going. To. Happen.
I hope you are right and do think the Supreme court will stop it, but who else is going to stop it before it gets there?
In Georgia it looks like the local party are trying to kick out Raffensberger as he wont go along with it. They are doing these things to get yes men into all the key roles.
If they can replace the election officials and the supreme court does rule in their favour, then whats left to stop them?
Rather than replacing the SoS haven't they got to find some evidence of, y'know, actual fraud and then place that in front of a court and have the court agree with them... all to the extent of 11,500+ votes and counting?
Yes its in play, if Kavanaugh, Barrett and Gorsuch are on board its the end of American democracy. 3 people from a successful coup.
Bollocks! Ain't. Going. To. Happen.
I hope you are right and do think the Supreme court will stop it, but who else is going to stop it before it gets there?
In Georgia it looks like the local party are trying to kick out Raffensberger as he wont go along with it. They are doing these things to get yes men into all the key roles.
If they can replace the election officials and the supreme court does rule in their favour, then whats left to stop them?
Rather than replacing the SoS haven't they got to find some evidence of, y'know, actual fraud and then place that in front of a court and have the court agree with them... all to the extent of 11,500+ votes and counting?
Well true despots are never worried about lack of evidence, and these guys are shaping like fascists now.
Yes its in play, if Kavanaugh, Barrett and Gorsuch are on board its the end of American democracy. 3 people from a successful coup.
It's a Supreme Court of nine Justices.
They are all financially well off (and indeed, could have chosen to have earned many millions a year in private practice). Being a Supreme Court member is a triumph of ego over bank balance.
Every Justice (but particularly Roberts) will have their eyes firmly on the history books.
Do they want to go down as patsies for Trump and potentially incite civil war in the US by overturning a democratic election?
Or do they want to be seen as saviours of the Republic?
I really don't get why so many are fighting this hard. You lose elections sometimes, it happens, you'll get another chance, but pulling this kind of crap escalates things to the whole system itself, for limited chance of success.
How is this behaviour worth it?
Republicans - at the core of it - are still furious Nixon was impeached. Fox News was specifically setup to prevent a Republican President from getting removed from power by impeachment They are furious that Bork was voted down (on bipartisan lines incidentally) - they believed that no-one involved in the Nixon administraion should have suffered consequences They were incandescent that Clinton beat Bush And they spent 8 years claiming that Obama was illegitimate - quite happily egging on racists Birther nonsense. Embracing the Tea Party movement. They were happily prepared to block H. Clinton appointing a Superem court justice is for her full term if she had beaten Trump.
Only the Republicans should be allowed to rule.
This.
Basically, the GOP have been complete and utter trash for a good, good while.
Give the way they demonised Clinton, this should be a sign to Dems that no matter who they put up, the GOP will characterise them as a radical socialist/Marxist etc.
Since 1928 only three elections have not had an incumbent President or Veep as the nominee on the ballot: 1952, 1968 and 2016.
....
And in 1968 although there was no incumbent P or VP, Nixon had already been VP for 8 years.
Indeed.
So since the Wall Street Crash only 1952 and 2016 had no current or former P or VP on a ticket. Some years both parties did (eg Reagan v Mondale or Trump v Biden).
The odds have to be overwhelming favourite for her to be the nominee. Xkcd applies, she might lose, but it would go against all precedent for her to do so.
Who was/were the current/former P/VP on the ticket in 2008?
Would the PB headless chicken coup crowd kindly return to the oven.
There's as much chance of a coup as TSE becoming inaugurated on 20th January as President of the Pineapple Pizza Appreciation Society and burning his red shoes on the podium.
There's no fucking chance that Trump and other idiot republicans steal the election. There would be an actual civil war. Biden won fair and square.
What they should be concentrating on is the 71m people who voted for Trump and showing that their agenda isn't as dead and buried as the liberal lamestream media etc... likes to pretend.
Plotting to steal the election shows how deeply unfit for government the Republican party is, senators and congressmen everywhere should be disowning the leadership over this and calling on Trump to accept reality. If they don't then the whole party needs to be junked and reset to represent the values of Lincoln.
Anyone trying to give it the "Oh the Republican party are a legitimate and serious party of government" after today can get fucked.
This is breaking point. If they are actively backing Trump then they are fascists. If they are scared of being primaried by their base they they are despicable cowards. Maybe try not to have a base made up of facists you wankers.
They are despicable cowards. They want Trump to concede on his own, while they keep the Trump base on side.
So far, we've seen (I think) only Romney and Toomey, of the incumbent Republican Senators, congratulate Biden.
Yes its in play, if Kavanaugh, Barrett and Gorsuch are on board its the end of American democracy. 3 people from a successful coup.
Bollocks! Ain't. Going. To. Happen.
I hope you are right and do think the Supreme court will stop it, but who else is going to stop it before it gets there?
In Georgia it looks like the local party are trying to kick out Raffensberger as he wont go along with it. They are doing these things to get yes men into all the key roles.
If they can replace the election officials and the supreme court does rule in their favour, then whats left to stop them?
Civil war?
Seriously.
If the election were to be overturned in some kind of anti-Democratic coup I would absolutely not rule out the secession of the blue states.
How can the courts institute a coup? Isn't that a contradiction in terms. A few months ago we were told that the UK Supreme Court was ordering the government what to do in this country in order to stop a coup from happening.
The courts can't but the various legislatures can refuse to certify results due to massive fraud. If WI, PA, MI legislatures are onboard they simply don't cast electoral college votes and it gets thrown to the house along 12th amendment lines which Trump wins as more state delegations are GOP compared to Democrat. If this all sounds mad, it's because it is. But the GOP are looking rather mad right now.
Don't forget Trump's base FIRMLY BELIEVES BIDEN is instigating a coup right now.
Yes its in play, if Kavanaugh, Barrett and Gorsuch are on board its the end of American democracy. 3 people from a successful coup.
It's a Supreme Court of nine Justices.
They are all financially well off (and indeed, could have chosen to have earned many millions a year in private practice). Being a Supreme Court member is a triumph of ego over bank balance.
Every Justice (but particularly Roberts) will have their eyes firmly on the history books.
Do they want to go down as patsies for Trump and potentially incite civil war in the US by overturning a democratic election?
Or do they want to be seen as saviours of the Republic?
Agreed that is the likely decision for the reasons you give (and on the merits of the cases), but what is the path that stops this reaching the Supreme Court in the first place?
Otherwise we are down to at most 5 judges (I think at least a couple are so partisan they would go along with any Republican establishment motions on this if other judges were also doing the same, so I would say its 3 judges) away from a coup.
Yes its in play, if Kavanaugh, Barrett and Gorsuch are on board its the end of American democracy. 3 people from a successful coup.
It's a Supreme Court of nine Justices.
They are all financially well off (and indeed, could have chosen to have earned many millions a year in private practice). Being a Supreme Court member is a triumph of ego over bank balance.
Every Justice (but particularly Roberts) will have their eyes firmly on the history books.
Do they want to go down as patsies for Trump and potentially incite civil war in the US by overturning a democratic election?
Or do they want to be seen as saviours of the Republic?
Roberts is no. 4 counting from the left now, so not required. Let's hope your wider point holds though.
Yes its in play, if Kavanaugh, Barrett and Gorsuch are on board its the end of American democracy. 3 people from a successful coup.
Bollocks! Ain't. Going. To. Happen.
I hope you are right and do think the Supreme court will stop it, but who else is going to stop it before it gets there?
In Georgia it looks like the local party are trying to kick out Raffensberger as he wont go along with it. They are doing these things to get yes men into all the key roles.
If they can replace the election officials and the supreme court does rule in their favour, then whats left to stop them?
Rather than replacing the SoS haven't they got to find some evidence of, y'know, actual fraud and then place that in front of a court and have the court agree with them... all to the extent of 11,500+ votes and counting?
Not wanting to sound like Cassandra, but I did say a few days ago this might happen re finding extra votes in Georgia.
Just amused myself by rereading the bedwetting (including my own) in the small hours of Wednesday morning.
Utter comedy.
There's a lot of posts that aged very, very, very rapidly.
I believe rcs remains calm whilst everyone else loses their head.
Did I remain calm? I think I'd drunk the best part of a bottle of wine, and a couple of glasses of whisky by the end of the evening, and so it's all a bit of a blur.
Yes its in play, if Kavanaugh, Barrett and Gorsuch are on board its the end of American democracy. 3 people from a successful coup.
Bollocks! Ain't. Going. To. Happen.
I hope you are right and do think the Supreme court will stop it, but who else is going to stop it before it gets there?
In Georgia it looks like the local party are trying to kick out Raffensberger as he wont go along with it. They are doing these things to get yes men into all the key roles.
If they can replace the election officials and the supreme court does rule in their favour, then whats left to stop them?
Civil war?
Seriously.
If the election were to be overturned in some kind of anti-Democratic coup I would absolutely not rule out the secession of the blue states.
The president, vice president, the attorney general, his advisors, the leader of the senate are all on board and putting in place a coup.
I would love it not to happen and think they will fail eventually. At the moment I cant see who stops them before it gets to the supreme court.
What are the practical steps that stop it reaching the supreme court where we would be relying on Trump appointees.
Saying it wont happen because "it cant happen" without an answer isnt answering the question.
Ok, so.
Let’s think about this.
Mitch McConnell is a very savvy individual. He knows that the entire fabric of the nation will be destroyed if the courts somehow invalidate the election. They won’t, for reasons that have been written about numerous times on here but essentially boil down to the fact that the Supreme Court justices are first and foremost lawyers. And no matter what their own political leanings are, they’re not going to rule in favour of something without evidence.
McConnell knows this. So what’s his angle? He wants the voters to be angry. He wants them to believe the election was stolen from them. He wants this sense of grievance to fire up the base, to give him the best chance of obstructing the new presidency and taking advantage in the midterms. The extra dollars rolling in won’t be overlooked, either.
I like everyone am very concerned at the noise that is coming out of the Republican Party right now. But not because I think a coup is imminent. More that it makes coup more likely in the future. If you keep picking threads at the edges of a tapestry, then eventually the whole thing will unravel.
Yes its in play, if Kavanaugh, Barrett and Gorsuch are on board its the end of American democracy. 3 people from a successful coup.
It's a Supreme Court of nine Justices.
They are all financially well off (and indeed, could have chosen to have earned many millions a year in private practice). Being a Supreme Court member is a triumph of ego over bank balance.
Every Justice (but particularly Roberts) will have their eyes firmly on the history books.
Do they want to go down as patsies for Trump and potentially incite civil war in the US by overturning a democratic election?
Or do they want to be seen as saviours of the Republic?
Agreed that is the likely decision for the reasons you give (and on the merits of the cases), but what is the path that stops this reaching the Supreme Court in the first place?
Otherwise we are down to at most 5 judges (I think at least a couple are so partisan they would go along with any Republican establishment motions on this if other judges were also doing the same, so I would say its 3 judges) away from a coup.
The Supreme Court decides itself whether to take cases or not. It cannot be forced upon them. That said, they might take a case just to dismiss it with contempt.
Roberts more than any sees the Court as being in his custody. Why on earth would he enable a farce which could well bring down the Court completely as we know it? My reading is that he would not allow any case as politically explosive as this anywhere near the court unless he knew ahead of time he had a safe majority of Justices.
There's no fucking chance that Trump and other idiot republicans steal the election. There would be an actual civil war. Biden won fair and square.
What they should be concentrating on is the 71m people who voted for Trump and showing that their agenda isn't as dead and buried as the liberal lamestream media etc... likes to pretend.
Plotting to steal the election shows how deeply unfit for government the Republican party is, senators and congressmen everywhere should be disowning the leadership over this and calling on Trump to accept reality. If they don't then the whole party needs to be junked and reset to represent the values of Lincoln.
Yes, 71m votes for Trump tells me that American politics is becoming racialised: but not in a way Lefties might have hoped. White Americans have started to self identify as white, and therefore as supporters of the White Party: the Republicans - ie the party not intrinsically hostile to them, by nature of their colour
It is a beautiful historical irony. God is a novelist. Until US Whites are such a tiny minority it doesn't matter, this is potentially transformative for Republicans, in a good way, electorally.
They have to play it cleverly though. Trump played it hideously but still nearly won two terms
"shine. When this verb is intransitive, it means “to give or make light”; the past tense is shone {the stars shone dimly}. When it is transitive, it means “to cause to shine”; the past tense is shined {the caterer shined the silver}."
Exactly. So it should have been "...has shone a light..."
Americans and Brits, a common people only separated by language.
Don't the Americans have "shone" but pronounce it "shown"? I have a vague memory it came up in Buffy the Vampire Slayer 20 years or so back.
Craig...Colin...buoy....they can't pronounce any of those properly.
You forgot Graham, Anthony and a bunch more. Don't get me started on place names.
How does Anthony get mispronounced?! Surely not Anth-onee?
Actually, my real pet peeve is their pronunciation of dew, duty etc... Pronounce doo, dooty. Then cannot hear the difference between dew (d'yew) and jew (j'yew), even when I speak them clearly and explain the phonetics and tongue positioning.
My favourite is when they try to say Worcestershire Sauce!
Edit: and don't they say "doodie" for duty, which sounds a bit like doing it is having a crap.
What color is the boathouse at Hear-ford?
Why didn't Sean Bean tell De Niro how to say it right?!
Yes its in play, if Kavanaugh, Barrett and Gorsuch are on board its the end of American democracy. 3 people from a successful coup.
It's a Supreme Court of nine Justices.
They are all financially well off (and indeed, could have chosen to have earned many millions a year in private practice). Being a Supreme Court member is a triumph of ego over bank balance.
Every Justice (but particularly Roberts) will have their eyes firmly on the history books.
Do they want to go down as patsies for Trump and potentially incite civil war in the US by overturning a democratic election?
Or do they want to be seen as saviours of the Republic?
I am in a "told you so" mood tonight but I highlighted that the reason to rush ACB onto the SC was because of the pending decisions over vote counts.
I also said though that a fair number of Republicans do genuinely believe that some Governors have tried to rig the system in favour of Biden. Here is a Republican view on PA - I know many will disagree but this is where the thinking is of many in the GOP. Plus, there are a number of actions by players like Gov. Wolf which are not exactly highlights either:
Yes its in play, if Kavanaugh, Barrett and Gorsuch are on board its the end of American democracy. 3 people from a successful coup.
Bollocks! Ain't. Going. To. Happen.
I hope you are right and do think the Supreme court will stop it, but who else is going to stop it before it gets there?
In Georgia it looks like the local party are trying to kick out Raffensberger as he wont go along with it. They are doing these things to get yes men into all the key roles.
If they can replace the election officials and the supreme court does rule in their favour, then whats left to stop them?
Rather than replacing the SoS haven't they got to find some evidence of, y'know, actual fraud and then place that in front of a court and have the court agree with them... all to the extent of 11,500+ votes and counting?
Not wanting to sound like Cassandra, but I did say a few days ago this might happen re finding extra votes in Georgia.
Yes, you were spot on in the Republican reaction. And Trump said this way back in 2016. He wouldnt accept an election result he lost. He has been in ridiculous law suits all his life and won plenty of them through power and bullying.
It was set up pre-election with the order of counting of votes in the swing states. There was absolutely no reason to delay counting mail in votes until last except as part of a coup attempt if it was required.
Yes its in play, if Kavanaugh, Barrett and Gorsuch are on board its the end of American democracy. 3 people from a successful coup.
It's a Supreme Court of nine Justices.
They are all financially well off (and indeed, could have chosen to have earned many millions a year in private practice). Being a Supreme Court member is a triumph of ego over bank balance.
Every Justice (but particularly Roberts) will have their eyes firmly on the history books.
Do they want to go down as patsies for Trump and potentially incite civil war in the US by overturning a democratic election?
Or do they want to be seen as saviours of the Republic?
Robert already has a cast iron lock on a top 10 all time worst Supreme Court decision in Shelby County.
If they put one half of the effort into sorting out Bristol’s education system that they put into being smug, stupid, racist, self-righteous and venal gits, Bristol might have one of the best education systems in the developed world rather than one of the worst.
Yes its in play, if Kavanaugh, Barrett and Gorsuch are on board its the end of American democracy. 3 people from a successful coup.
Bollocks! Ain't. Going. To. Happen.
I hope you are right and do think the Supreme court will stop it, but who else is going to stop it before it gets there?
In Georgia it looks like the local party are trying to kick out Raffensberger as he wont go along with it. They are doing these things to get yes men into all the key roles.
If they can replace the election officials and the supreme court does rule in their favour, then whats left to stop them?
Rather than replacing the SoS haven't they got to find some evidence of, y'know, actual fraud and then place that in front of a court and have the court agree with them... all to the extent of 11,500+ votes and counting?
I dont think so. If the new SoS says the election is invalid, it gives them cover to replace the EC delegates with ones chosen by the state legislatures.
If they do that without evidence, then I doubt I am the only one who fears for American democracy.
Systems matter. I'd rather have a terrible Prime Ministers and a working system, than a great leader and no mechanism for his replacement.
Yes its in play, if Kavanaugh, Barrett and Gorsuch are on board its the end of American democracy. 3 people from a successful coup.
Bollocks! Ain't. Going. To. Happen.
I hope you are right and do think the Supreme court will stop it, but who else is going to stop it before it gets there?
In Georgia it looks like the local party are trying to kick out Raffensberger as he wont go along with it. They are doing these things to get yes men into all the key roles.
If they can replace the election officials and the supreme court does rule in their favour, then whats left to stop them?
Rather than replacing the SoS haven't they got to find some evidence of, y'know, actual fraud and then place that in front of a court and have the court agree with them... all to the extent of 11,500+ votes and counting?
Not wanting to sound like Cassandra, but I did say a few days ago this might happen re finding extra votes in Georgia.
Yes, you were spot on in the Republican reaction. And Trump said this way back in 2016. He wouldnt accept an election result he lost. He has been in ridiculous law suits all his life and won plenty of them through power and bullying.
It was set up pre-election with the order of counting of votes in the swing states. There was absolutely no reason to delay counting mail in votes until last except as part of a coup attempt if it was required.
It's a very sad state of affairs. If there is any good comes of it, it will be that some sort of Federal Electoral Commission is established to provide oversight and rules. Don't hold your breath though.
As the vote counts trickled in last week, there was only one question on the lips of every American. From Point Barrow in Alaska to the Florida Keys, from Sail Rock, Maine to Honolulu, everyone wanted to know the same thing: “What does this mean for Keir Starmer?”
Centrists may be celebrating this result, but actually, it is a disaster Few things can have been closer to the heart of the average US citizen as they queued up to vote than a desire to send a clear signal to British politicians. That is, after all, the principal purpose of American democracy. Which makes it all the more frustrating that this message can sometimes get confused as it makes its way across the Atlantic.
"shine. When this verb is intransitive, it means “to give or make light”; the past tense is shone {the stars shone dimly}. When it is transitive, it means “to cause to shine”; the past tense is shined {the caterer shined the silver}."
Exactly. So it should have been "...has shone a light..."
Americans and Brits, a common people only separated by language.
Don't the Americans have "shone" but pronounce it "shown"? I have a vague memory it came up in Buffy the Vampire Slayer 20 years or so back.
Craig...Colin...buoy....they can't pronounce any of those properly.
You forgot Graham, Anthony and a bunch more. Don't get me started on place names.
How does Anthony get mispronounced?! Surely not Anth-onee?
Actually, my real pet peeve is their pronunciation of dew, duty etc... Pronounce doo, dooty. Then cannot hear the difference between dew (d'yew) and jew (j'yew), even when I speak them clearly and explain the phonetics and tongue positioning.
My favourite is when they try to say Worcestershire Sauce!
Edit: and don't they say "doodie" for duty, which sounds a bit like doing it is having a crap.
What color is the boathouse at Hear-ford?
Why didn't Sean Bean tell De Niro how to say it right?!
I had not thought of that. Perhaps he said it right live but for some reason they did an ADR re recording?
Yes its in play, if Kavanaugh, Barrett and Gorsuch are on board its the end of American democracy. 3 people from a successful coup.
Bollocks! Ain't. Going. To. Happen.
I hope you are right and do think the Supreme court will stop it, but who else is going to stop it before it gets there?
In Georgia it looks like the local party are trying to kick out Raffensberger as he wont go along with it. They are doing these things to get yes men into all the key roles.
If they can replace the election officials and the supreme court does rule in their favour, then whats left to stop them?
Rather than replacing the SoS haven't they got to find some evidence of, y'know, actual fraud and then place that in front of a court and have the court agree with them... all to the extent of 11,500+ votes and counting?
I dont think so. If the new SoS says the election is invalid, it gives them cover to replace the EC delegates with ones chosen by the state legislatures.
If they do that without evidence, then I doubt I am the only one who fears for American democracy.
Systems matter. I'd rather have a terrible Prime Ministers and a working system, than a great leader and no mechanism for his replacement.
They have zero interest in American democracy! Who does Trump admire on the world stage and why? Putin, Xi, Erdogan, Kim. Why? Because they rig their elections and have power for life.
Anyone on here who gives the slightest credence to the idea there is a realistic court route for Trump or even the glimmer of a chance for him "coz Supreme Court" knows sod all about the law and sod all about lawyers, and simply shouldn't be taken seriously ever again.
Comments
That is a huge error.
Leoffler is the Georgian version of McSally.
I am bullish on the Dems in Georgia but though a good chance of Perdue winning and Loeffler losing. I think they go down together now.
Edit: I also like the idea of setting the proof of Fermat's last theorem in class in order to get someone to shut up for a bit...
https://twitter.com/thecubiclediet/status/1325899005860044806
#wearsunscreen
https://twitter.com/costareports/status/1325898183709437957
At least that is US usage. Had I written it myself, I should probably have used 'shone'
https://twitter.com/Pulpstar/status/1325899989156040708
https://twitter.com/BetfairCS/status/1325900449657069568
2016 was the only Presidential election since before WWII that no incumbent sought election.
The last time an incumbent (President or Veep) was defeated for the nomination was 1968, with 1952 before then. Both very unpopular Presidents.
There is a reason incumbents normally get it and it's not because they get a pass, they have such a structural advantage you have to really screw up to throw it away.
Calloo Callay!!!!!!
How is this behaviour worth it?
This is breaking point. If they are actively backing Trump then they are fascists. If they are scared of being primaried by their base they they are despicable cowards. Maybe try not to have a base made up of facists you wankers.
That's cowardly and bad for democracy, but can you blame them?
Yada yada riding a tiger yada want to get off...
It is sad to see such a shameful and tawdry display from what has been for decades an admittedly firmly right-wing, but patriotic and democracy-loving party.
“Burn it all”.
Fox News was specifically setup to prevent a Republican President from getting removed from power by impeachment
They are furious that Bork was voted down (on bipartisan lines incidentally) - they believed that no-one involved in the Nixon administraion should have suffered consequences
They were incandescent that Clinton beat Bush
And they spent 8 years claiming that Obama was illegitimate - quite happily egging on racists Birther nonsense. Embracing the Tea Party movement.
They were happily prepared to block H. Clinton appointing a Superem court justice is for her full term if she had beaten Trump.
Only the Republicans should be allowed to rule.
Utter comedy.
In Georgia it looks like the local party are trying to kick out Raffensberger as he wont go along with it. They are doing these things to get yes men into all the key roles.
If they can replace the election officials and the supreme court does rule in their favour, then whats left to stop them?
Imagine being the person who laid Biden at 5.
(£)
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/im-voting-to-make-america-boring-again
"Lionel Shriver
I’m voting to make America boring again"
Seriously.
If the election were to be overturned in some kind of anti-Democratic coup I would absolutely not rule out the secession of the blue states.
I believe rcs remains calm whilst everyone else loses their head.
Edit: and don't they say "doodie" for duty, which sounds a bit like doing it is having a crap.
There's as much chance of a coup as TSE becoming inaugurated on 20th January as President of the Pineapple Pizza Appreciation Society and burning his red shoes on the podium.
I would love it not to happen and think they will fail eventually. At the moment I cant see who stops them before it gets to the supreme court.
What are the practical steps that stop it reaching the supreme court where we would be relying on Trump appointees.
Saying it wont happen because "it cant happen" without an answer isnt answering the question.
https://twitter.com/CNNPolitics/status/1325905775408128000
So since the Wall Street Crash only 1952 and 2016 had no current or former P or VP on a ticket. Some years both parties did (eg Reagan v Mondale or Trump v Biden).
The odds have to be overwhelming favourite for her to be the nominee. Xkcd applies, she might lose, but it would go against all precedent for her to do so.
They are all financially well off (and indeed, could have chosen to have earned many millions a year in private practice). Being a Supreme Court member is a triumph of ego over bank balance.
Every Justice (but particularly Roberts) will have their eyes firmly on the history books.
Do they want to go down as patsies for Trump and potentially incite civil war in the US by overturning a democratic election?
Or do they want to be seen as saviours of the Republic?
Basically, the GOP have been complete and utter trash for a good, good while.
Give the way they demonised Clinton, this should be a sign to Dems that no matter who they put up, the GOP will characterise them as a radical socialist/Marxist etc.
Not until the codeword - "Radiohead"
Remember?
What they should be concentrating on is the 71m people who voted for Trump and showing that their agenda isn't as dead and buried as the liberal lamestream media etc... likes to pretend.
Plotting to steal the election shows how deeply unfit for government the Republican party is, senators and congressmen everywhere should be disowning the leadership over this and calling on Trump to accept reality. If they don't then the whole party needs to be junked and reset to represent the values of Lincoln.
So forget that gets listened to
So far, we've seen (I think) only Romney and Toomey, of the incumbent Republican Senators, congratulate Biden.
If this all sounds mad, it's because it is. But the GOP are looking rather mad right now.
Don't forget Trump's base FIRMLY BELIEVES BIDEN is instigating a coup right now.
Otherwise we are down to at most 5 judges (I think at least a couple are so partisan they would go along with any Republican establishment motions on this if other judges were also doing the same, so I would say its 3 judges) away from a coup.
There are some odd folk out there.
https://twitter.com/LeGoat_SZN/status/1325880192041103362
https://twitter.com/MomentumBristol/status/1325892391765749762?s=20
Let’s think about this.
Mitch McConnell is a very savvy individual. He knows that the entire fabric of the nation will be destroyed if the courts somehow invalidate the election. They won’t, for reasons that have been written about numerous times on here but essentially boil down to the fact that the Supreme Court justices are first and foremost lawyers. And no matter what their own political leanings are, they’re not going to rule in favour of something without evidence.
McConnell knows this. So what’s his angle? He wants the voters to be angry. He wants them to believe the election was stolen from them. He wants this sense of grievance to fire up the base, to give him the best chance of obstructing the new presidency and taking advantage in the midterms. The extra dollars rolling in won’t be overlooked, either.
I like everyone am very concerned at the noise that is coming out of the Republican Party right now. But not because I think a coup is imminent. More that it makes coup more likely in the future. If you keep picking threads at the edges of a tapestry, then eventually the whole thing will unravel.
Roberts more than any sees the Court as being in his custody. Why on earth would he enable a farce which could well bring down the Court completely as we know it? My reading is that he would not allow any case as politically explosive as this anywhere near the court unless he knew ahead of time he had a safe majority of Justices.
It is a beautiful historical irony. God is a novelist. Until US Whites are such a tiny minority it doesn't matter, this is potentially transformative for Republicans, in a good way, electorally.
They have to play it cleverly though. Trump played it hideously but still nearly won two terms
I also said though that a fair number of Republicans do genuinely believe that some Governors have tried to rig the system in favour of Biden. Here is a Republican view on PA - I know many will disagree but this is where the thinking is of many in the GOP. Plus, there are a number of actions by players like Gov. Wolf which are not exactly highlights either:
https://thefederalist.com/2020/11/09/how-pennsylvania-democrats-deliberately-stoked-2020-election-chaos/
It was set up pre-election with the order of counting of votes in the swing states. There was absolutely no reason to delay counting mail in votes until last except as part of a coup attempt if it was required.
Some good snippets in there though, too many to mention, but this struck me as very prescient:
@FrancisUrquhart: This is going to be the worst possible result, as in a very narrow victory.
@DecrepiterJohnL: Worse than that, it could drag on for days while postal votes are counted, and then weeks if it goes to court in tight states.
Systems matter. I'd rather have a terrible Prime Ministers and a working system, than a great leader and no mechanism for his replacement.
https://twitter.com/twitonatrain/status/1325910224499306500?s=19
As the vote counts trickled in last week, there was only one question on the lips of every American. From Point Barrow in Alaska to the Florida Keys, from Sail Rock, Maine to Honolulu, everyone wanted to know the same thing: “What does this mean for Keir Starmer?”
Centrists may be celebrating this result, but actually, it is a disaster
Few things can have been closer to the heart of the average US citizen as they queued up to vote than a desire to send a clear signal to British politicians. That is, after all, the principal purpose of American democracy. Which makes it all the more frustrating that this message can sometimes get confused as it makes its way across the Atlantic.
https://thecritic.co.uk/something-something-robert-caro/