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Revealed – Trump’s plan to lose again at WH2024 – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,127
edited November 2020 in General
Revealed – Trump’s plan to lose again at WH2024 – politicalbetting.com

Scoop: President Trump had already told advisers he's thinking about running for president again in 2024. https://t.co/XmdzNfN8N5

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123
    First like Pfizer.
  • Late to the party, like the Oxford vaccine...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    Question

    If we are no longer under the aegis of the EUMA, who is certifying this vaccine for us?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,456
    edited November 2020
    Surely Harris will be in pole position come 2024 for the democrat nomination.
  • Does anyone else think it was maybe Martin Bashir who killed Diana?

    If her brother's claims are true, what Bashir invented to get the interview would have made her extremely, probably dangerously, paranoid.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    edited November 2020
    Scott_xP said:
    Somebody needs to read the 25th as well as attend a course about his racism.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,800
    Evening all :)

    The language of some of the Trump acolytes is terrifying - they claim to be democrats but only as long as the democracy gives them the result they want.

    More than one is now urging State legislatures to by-pass the will of the people in the State and go to the Electoral College and support Trump even if more people in their state voted for Biden.

    It would be like the people of Surrey voting in 8 Liberal Democrat MPs and 3 Conservative MPs and the Conservative-controlled County Council deciding the eight LD MPs would be replaced by eight County Councillors (Conservative of course).

    As usual, such claims are "supported" by frankly nonsensical allegations of vote-rigging which would do the average banana republic proud.

    The GOP has had four years to prepare for this election, State legislatures have had plenty of opportunity to defraud the electorate and rig the vote and yet the Trump supporters seem to think somehow Democrats have been able to by-pass Republican officials and fix the election.

    The depressing thing is free speech means we are forced to endure these rantings.
  • Does anyone else think it was maybe Martin Bashir who killed Diana?

    If her brother's claims are true, what Bashir invented to get the interview would have made her extremely, probably dangerously, paranoid.

    Of course not. Diana died in a car accident in which she was a passenger.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,050
    edited November 2020
    As I've mentioned before, i think Buttigieg would not fare well against many Republican candidates. Bright as he is, and I would be happy to be proved wrong, he looks to me very much a Clinton-era politician.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123
    stodge said:

    It would be like the people of Surrey voting in 8 Liberal Democrat MPs.

    What a scary thought.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    Does anyone else think it was maybe Martin Bashir who killed Diana?

    If her brother's claims are true, what Bashir invented to get the interview would have made her extremely, probably dangerously, paranoid.

    Of course not. Diana died in a car accident in which she was a passenger.
    She was possibly the world’s most prominent victim of drunk driving.

    It wouldn’t even be controversial if Mohammed Fayed were not desperate to conceal the awkward truth that it was largely his fault they were being driven by a drunk.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,456
    edited November 2020
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,169
    edited November 2020
    test
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    Scott_xP said:
    He says that he didn't know her name. I suppose I could use Google to see if there has ever been a more pathetic excuse.
  • stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    The language of some of the Trump acolytes is terrifying - they claim to be democrats but only as long as the democracy gives them the result they want.

    More than one is now urging State legislatures to by-pass the will of the people in the State and go to the Electoral College and support Trump even if more people in their state voted for Biden.

    It would be like the people of Surrey voting in 8 Liberal Democrat MPs and 3 Conservative MPs and the Conservative-controlled County Council deciding the eight LD MPs would be replaced by eight County Councillors (Conservative of course).

    As usual, such claims are "supported" by frankly nonsensical allegations of vote-rigging which would do the average banana republic proud.

    The GOP has had four years to prepare for this election, State legislatures have had plenty of opportunity to defraud the electorate and rig the vote and yet the Trump supporters seem to think somehow Democrats have been able to by-pass Republican officials and fix the election.

    The depressing thing is free speech means we are forced to endure these rantings.

    It needs Mitch McConnell to intervene.
  • Andy_JS said:

    test

    Sorry at max capacity, come back tomorrow.
  • Surely Harris will be in pole position come 2024 for the democrat nomination.

    Is Yang not in with a shout?

    Harris would start favorite, but not a shoo-in, imo.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,892
    Arizona latest drop was a small one but Biden netted votes out of Pinal
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    Question

    If we are no longer under the aegis of the EUMA, who is certifying this vaccine for us?

    Mhra
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    Andy_JS said:

    Will people be pressured into having the vaccine even if they don't want to?

    If you mean by ‘pressured,’ ‘forced to take the vaccine or stay in their houses all the time and never get a decent job, take a holiday or have a life,’ then yes.

    If you mean, ‘have a gun pointed at their head and told to take that shot or this shot,’ probably not.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,575
    edited November 2020
    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    twitter.com/Alan_McGuinness/status/1325870409938575361

    He says that he didn't know her name. I suppose I could use Google to see if there has ever been a more pathetic excuse.
    To be fair to the old loon, he is not alone in that. Boris mispronounced Kamala again at tonight's vaccine show.
  • Surely Harris will be in pole position come 2024 for the democrat nomination.

    Is Yang not in with a shout?

    Harris would start favorite, but not a shoo-in, imo.
    I really like Yang as an individual, super interesting guy, very smart, has identified big issues (don't agree with all the solutions), but he is never getting the nomination. He isn't part of the party machinery.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Question

    If we are no longer under the aegis of the EUMA, who is certifying this vaccine for us?

    Mhra
    Thanks.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,800
    On then to the vaccine and it seems for the stock market it's unalloyed good news.

    Unlike some on here, I'm no epidemiologist so as far as the vaccine is concerned, will we need to take it every year or will immunity build up over time? The former might be a decent option fr those making the vaccine but the prospect of a single lifetime immunity would be truly impressive.

    Let's administer the vaccine free of charge to all - rich or poor, it should make no difference. We've all been through a lot.

    On then to the cultural consequences of a vaccine - I'm already hearing the siren voices saying everything will return to "normal" and that 2021 will be one big Party. I'm less convinced - the psychological trauma of 2020 will be with us for years to come and we shouldn't lose sight of the near 70,000 who have died, those whose health has been permanently damaged by the virus and those who have suffered through being confined.

    Perhaps this experience will make us take our public and personal health a bit less for granted and it won't do any harm for us to make some changes rather than go back to January 2020 and try to forget everything that has happened.

    It would be easy to forget but the independent public enquiry Boris promised must happen - there must be a proper accounting of decisions taken and not taken especially on care homes and if that means Ministers are sacked, so be it.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,872
    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:
    He says that he didn't know her name. I suppose I could use Google to see if there has ever been a more pathetic excuse.
    Saying 'who becomes vice-president if the vice-president becomes president?' would have been impossible.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342
    edited November 2020
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    The language of some of the Trump acolytes is terrifying - they claim to be democrats but only as long as the democracy gives them the result they want.

    More than one is now urging State legislatures to by-pass the will of the people in the State and go to the Electoral College and support Trump even if more people in their state voted for Biden.

    It would be like the people of Surrey voting in 8 Liberal Democrat MPs and 3 Conservative MPs and the Conservative-controlled County Council deciding the eight LD MPs would be replaced by eight County Councillors (Conservative of course).

    As usual, such claims are "supported" by frankly nonsensical allegations of vote-rigging which would do the average banana republic proud.

    The GOP has had four years to prepare for this election, State legislatures have had plenty of opportunity to defraud the electorate and rig the vote and yet the Trump supporters seem to think somehow Democrats have been able to by-pass Republican officials and fix the election.

    The depressing thing is free speech means we are forced to endure these rantings.

    As I remarked earlier. Conservatives on the SC has been elevated to sacred status. There is a widespread, genuine belief that their control of it means total, untrammelled power for 2 generations.
    Regardless of elections.
    Hence calls for it to "step in" and overturn the vote. This is a fundamentally undemocratic movement.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    stodge said:

    On then to the vaccine and it seems for the stock market it's unalloyed good news.

    Unlike some on here, I'm no epidemiologist so as far as the vaccine is concerned, will we need to take it every year or will immunity build up over time? The former might be a decent option fr those making the vaccine but the prospect of a single lifetime immunity would be truly impressive.

    Let's administer the vaccine free of charge to all - rich or poor, it should make no difference. We've all been through a lot.

    On then to the cultural consequences of a vaccine - I'm already hearing the siren voices saying everything will return to "normal" and that 2021 will be one big Party. I'm less convinced - the psychological trauma of 2020 will be with us for years to come and we shouldn't lose sight of the near 70,000 who have died, those whose health has been permanently damaged by the virus and those who have suffered through being confined.

    Perhaps this experience will make us take our public and personal health a bit less for granted and it won't do any harm for us to make some changes rather than go back to January 2020 and try to forget everything that has happened.

    It would be easy to forget but the independent public enquiry Boris promised must happen - there must be a proper accounting of decisions taken and not taken especially on care homes and if that means Ministers are sacked, so be it.

    And Cummings, of course.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,050
    edited November 2020

    Surely Harris will be in pole position come 2024 for the democrat nomination.

    Is Yang not in with a shout?

    Harris would start favorite, but not a shoo-in, imo.
    I really like Yang as an individual, super interesting guy, very smart, has identified big issues (don't agree with all the solutions), but he is never getting the nomination. He isn't part of the party machinery.
    He could become so, though. The kind of combined Sanders/Yang ticket that some were talking about would have been fascinating.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344
    ydoethur said:

    Question

    If we are no longer under the aegis of the EUMA, who is certifying this vaccine for us?

    We resuscitated our Agency when the EMA left. Not sure how well it’s working, mind.
  • stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    The language of some of the Trump acolytes is terrifying - they claim to be democrats but only as long as the democracy gives them the result they want.

    More than one is now urging State legislatures to by-pass the will of the people in the State and go to the Electoral College and support Trump even if more people in their state voted for Biden.

    It would be like the people of Surrey voting in 8 Liberal Democrat MPs and 3 Conservative MPs and the Conservative-controlled County Council deciding the eight LD MPs would be replaced by eight County Councillors (Conservative of course).

    As usual, such claims are "supported" by frankly nonsensical allegations of vote-rigging which would do the average banana republic proud.

    The GOP has had four years to prepare for this election, State legislatures have had plenty of opportunity to defraud the electorate and rig the vote and yet the Trump supporters seem to think somehow Democrats have been able to by-pass Republican officials and fix the election.

    The depressing thing is free speech means we are forced to endure these rantings.

    It needs Mitch McConnell to intervene.
    Isn't he a big part of the problem? He decided long ago that Party came before Country.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited November 2020
    The best thing for the US and for the GOP would be Trump moving his attention on to 2024 and thereby accepting the 2020 result. Plenty of time to sideline him later; indeed his political operation, such as it is, is highly likely to collapse quickly of its own accord.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,800
    I would imagine the cruise industry is already setting up the protocols which mean you will only be allowed to board a ship if you can prove you have had the vaccine administered.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    edited November 2020
    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:
    He says that he didn't know her name. I suppose I could use Google to see if there has ever been a more pathetic excuse.
    Well, there’s Cummings and his eye test.

    The best one I ever heard though was a pseudoscholar called David Fitzgerald, who claimed he had written a book proving a loony fringe theory to be true. On having it pointed out to him that he had offered no proof whatsoever, he said that the evidence was in his original draft but he left it out because it made the book too long.
  • I suspect Trump will be a distant memory by 2024. Yes, his supporters are exploding at the moment, but things move quickly in politics and I don't suppose too many of them have huge attention spans. It's like those Tories in 1990 who, for a short while, were convinced that Maggie would return one day.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    As I've mentioned before, i think Buttigieg would not fare well against many Republican candidates. Bright as he is, and I would be happy to be proved wrong, he looks to me very much a Clinton-era politician.

    I agree. I'm not on the Pete train. I'm a bit Shania on him.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    The language of some of the Trump acolytes is terrifying - they claim to be democrats but only as long as the democracy gives them the result they want.

    More than one is now urging State legislatures to by-pass the will of the people in the State and go to the Electoral College and support Trump even if more people in their state voted for Biden.

    It would be like the people of Surrey voting in 8 Liberal Democrat MPs and 3 Conservative MPs and the Conservative-controlled County Council deciding the eight LD MPs would be replaced by eight County Councillors (Conservative of course).

    As usual, such claims are "supported" by frankly nonsensical allegations of vote-rigging which would do the average banana republic proud.

    The GOP has had four years to prepare for this election, State legislatures have had plenty of opportunity to defraud the electorate and rig the vote and yet the Trump supporters seem to think somehow Democrats have been able to by-pass Republican officials and fix the election.

    The depressing thing is free speech means we are forced to endure these rantings.

    It needs Mitch McConnell to intervene.
    Isn't he a big part of the problem? He decided long ago that Party came before Country.
    His party is at risk of permanent damage if they do not disown this loser pronto.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:
    He says that he didn't know her name. I suppose I could use Google to see if there has ever been a more pathetic excuse.
    Saying 'who becomes vice-president if the vice-president becomes president?' would have been impossible.
    Possibly a fraction more difficult than who is the VP elect?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    dixiedean said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:
    He says that he didn't know her name. I suppose I could use Google to see if there has ever been a more pathetic excuse.
    He doesn't know the name of the newly elected VP of the USA, nor basic facts about the US Constitution.
    I, for one, rejoice that we have a Upper House of "experts in their field" to scrutinise.
    There are probably few with greater expertise in being an utter pillock than he.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Pulpstar said:

    Arizona latest drop was a small one but Biden netted votes out of Pinal

    Pinal? Pineal? Pineal gland?

    Suddenly it all makes sense!
  • I suspect Trump will be a distant memory by 2024. Yes, his supporters are exploding at the moment, but things move quickly in politics and I don't suppose too many of them have huge attention spans. It's like those Tories in 1990 who, for a short while, were convinced that Maggie would return one day.

    He has added 100k twitter followers since the election. Possibly people waiting to see him quit?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    edited November 2020
    Mapreader said:

    I suspect Trump will be a distant memory by 2024. Yes, his supporters are exploding at the moment, but things move quickly in politics and I don't suppose too many of them have huge attention spans. It's like those Tories in 1990 who, for a short while, were convinced that Maggie would return one day.

    He has added 100k twitter followers since the election. Possibly people waiting to see him quit?
    Well, I would be tempted to follow. Comedy gold like he’s put out recently doesn’t come round too often.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706

    Surely Harris will be in pole position come 2024 for the democrat nomination.

    Is Yang not in with a shout?

    Harris would start favorite, but not a shoo-in, imo.
    I really like Yang as an individual, super interesting guy, very smart, has identified big issues (don't agree with all the solutions), but he is never getting the nomination. He isn't part of the party machinery.
    My son really liked his program, especially the Universal Wage idea, but he's a bit geeky.
  • Meanwhile - this would be funny if it weren't for the fact that it is going to cause really serious problems for NI:

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1325871160056274945
  • DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:
    He says that he didn't know her name. I suppose I could use Google to see if there has ever been a more pathetic excuse.
    Saying 'who becomes vice-president if the vice-president becomes president?' would have been impossible.
    Possibly a fraction more difficult than who is the VP elect?
    I doubt he gave a hoot about the actual question - just wanted a vehicle for his racial smear.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    ydoethur said:

    Mapreader said:

    I suspect Trump will be a distant memory by 2024. Yes, his supporters are exploding at the moment, but things move quickly in politics and I don't suppose too many of them have huge attention spans. It's like those Tories in 1990 who, for a short while, were convinced that Maggie would return one day.

    He has added 100k twitter followers since the election. Possibly people waiting to see him quit?
    Well, I would be tempted to follow. Comedy gold like he’s put out recently doesn’t come round too often.
    But then you would have to join twitter and thus make a public declaration that you are an arse. Not attractive.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    dixiedean said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:
    He says that he didn't know her name. I suppose I could use Google to see if there has ever been a more pathetic excuse.
    He doesn't know the name of the newly elected VP of the USA, nor basic facts about the US Constitution.
    I, for one, rejoice that we have a Upper House of "experts in their field" to scrutinise.
    I don't know what we'd do without them but I would really like to find out.
  • DavidL said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    The language of some of the Trump acolytes is terrifying - they claim to be democrats but only as long as the democracy gives them the result they want.

    More than one is now urging State legislatures to by-pass the will of the people in the State and go to the Electoral College and support Trump even if more people in their state voted for Biden.

    It would be like the people of Surrey voting in 8 Liberal Democrat MPs and 3 Conservative MPs and the Conservative-controlled County Council deciding the eight LD MPs would be replaced by eight County Councillors (Conservative of course).

    As usual, such claims are "supported" by frankly nonsensical allegations of vote-rigging which would do the average banana republic proud.

    The GOP has had four years to prepare for this election, State legislatures have had plenty of opportunity to defraud the electorate and rig the vote and yet the Trump supporters seem to think somehow Democrats have been able to by-pass Republican officials and fix the election.

    The depressing thing is free speech means we are forced to endure these rantings.

    It needs Mitch McConnell to intervene.
    Isn't he a big part of the problem? He decided long ago that Party came before Country.
    His party is at risk of permanent damage if they do not disown this loser pronto.
    I fear you are imagining a return of the Republican party of Reagan and Bush.

    That is not happening, more likely is a shift to QAnon, but most likely is sticking with Trumpism, and probably the Trumps. Far from being permanently damaged they are remarkably successful still and may well have beaten any of Harris, Buttigieg, Sanders, Warren this time around, or indeed Biden if Pfizers announcement was a week or two earlier.

    As much as I wish your statement were true, the evidence points to the contrary, Trumpism could pretty much guarantee 65 million votes + in 2024 (efficiently distributed by state). It is a strong base to build on if Trump stays interested.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Question

    If we are no longer under the aegis of the EUMA, who is certifying this vaccine for us?

    Mhra
    Who might be quicker off the mark than the EMA which has yet to authorise purchase of the Pfizer vaccine. When the move from London was announced it was pointed out that this would lead to reduced capacity at least initially

    https://pharmaphorum.com/news/ema-counts-the-cost-of-brexit-in-lost-staff-and-narrower-workload/
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,872
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:
    He says that he didn't know her name. I suppose I could use Google to see if there has ever been a more pathetic excuse.
    He doesn't know the name of the newly elected VP of the USA, nor basic facts about the US Constitution.
    I, for one, rejoice that we have a Upper House of "experts in their field" to scrutinise.
    There are probably few with greater expertise in being an utter pillock than he.
    There are around 800 members, chances are there are a few more at least.
  • I think there is certainly a risk of a Trump 2024 run. However, we must balance this against:

    1. The way the wind is blowing. If Democrats are popular (big if) and it looks unlikely that a GOP nominee will win, I doubt he’ll go for it.

    2. He will likely be caught up in all sorts of legal woes by then. However there is a chance he spins those as some kind of witch hunt, which could make him even more popular.

    3. You have to consider what his health might be like by that point. He will be in his late 70s (yes, so is Biden, but is much more active). Sorry to be blunt, but you have to consider the possibility he might even be dead in 2024.

  • When are BF going to put up a POTUS '24 market?

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    edited November 2020
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:
    He says that he didn't know her name. I suppose I could use Google to see if there has ever been a more pathetic excuse.
    He doesn't know the name of the newly elected VP of the USA, nor basic facts about the US Constitution.
    I, for one, rejoice that we have a Upper House of "experts in their field" to scrutinise.
    There are probably few with greater expertise in being an utter pillock than he.
    There are around 800 members, chances are there are a few more at least.
    Even among more members than you will see in the backdrop of a Trump speech, he stands out as a special one.
  • Surely Harris will be in pole position come 2024 for the democrat nomination.

    Yes, I agree, on a number of counts. I suspect that Biden will push her well to the fore from the start. And this time there will be a good part of the Democrats' base supporting her from the outset. The nomination is hers to lose.
  • DavidL said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    The language of some of the Trump acolytes is terrifying - they claim to be democrats but only as long as the democracy gives them the result they want.

    More than one is now urging State legislatures to by-pass the will of the people in the State and go to the Electoral College and support Trump even if more people in their state voted for Biden.

    It would be like the people of Surrey voting in 8 Liberal Democrat MPs and 3 Conservative MPs and the Conservative-controlled County Council deciding the eight LD MPs would be replaced by eight County Councillors (Conservative of course).

    As usual, such claims are "supported" by frankly nonsensical allegations of vote-rigging which would do the average banana republic proud.

    The GOP has had four years to prepare for this election, State legislatures have had plenty of opportunity to defraud the electorate and rig the vote and yet the Trump supporters seem to think somehow Democrats have been able to by-pass Republican officials and fix the election.

    The depressing thing is free speech means we are forced to endure these rantings.

    It needs Mitch McConnell to intervene.
    Isn't he a big part of the problem? He decided long ago that Party came before Country.
    His party is at risk of permanent damage if they do not disown this loser pronto.
    I fear you are imagining a return of the Republican party of Reagan and Bush.

    That is not happening, more likely is a shift to QAnon, but most likely is sticking with Trumpism, and probably the Trumps. Far from being permanently damaged they are remarkably successful still and may well have beaten any of Harris, Buttigieg, Sanders, Warren this time around, or indeed Biden if Pfizers announcement was a week or two earlier.

    As much as I wish your statement were true, the evidence points to the contrary, Trumpism could pretty much guarantee 65 million votes + in 2024 (efficiently distributed by state). It is a strong base to build on if Trump stays interested.
    Will we ever be free of this malevolent huckster?
  • Harris should be odds on favourite to be 2024 Presidential winner.

    She will be the heir apparent if Biden doesn't seek re-election and the Democrats should be favourites to hold the White House next time.

    Since the start of the 20th century only twice has a party lost the White House after just one term: Carter and Trump.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    That means they are either testing only the seriously ill with clear symptoms or *everyone* has it.....
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:
    He says that he didn't know her name. I suppose I could use Google to see if there has ever been a more pathetic excuse.
    Saying 'who becomes vice-president if the vice-president becomes president?' would have been impossible.
    Possibly a fraction more difficult than who is the VP elect?
    I doubt he gave a hoot about the actual question - just wanted a vehicle for his racial smear.
    Are you suggesting that a member of the Ulster Unionist party could be some kind of bigot? The very idea.
  • DavidL said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    The language of some of the Trump acolytes is terrifying - they claim to be democrats but only as long as the democracy gives them the result they want.

    More than one is now urging State legislatures to by-pass the will of the people in the State and go to the Electoral College and support Trump even if more people in their state voted for Biden.

    It would be like the people of Surrey voting in 8 Liberal Democrat MPs and 3 Conservative MPs and the Conservative-controlled County Council deciding the eight LD MPs would be replaced by eight County Councillors (Conservative of course).

    As usual, such claims are "supported" by frankly nonsensical allegations of vote-rigging which would do the average banana republic proud.

    The GOP has had four years to prepare for this election, State legislatures have had plenty of opportunity to defraud the electorate and rig the vote and yet the Trump supporters seem to think somehow Democrats have been able to by-pass Republican officials and fix the election.

    The depressing thing is free speech means we are forced to endure these rantings.

    It needs Mitch McConnell to intervene.
    Isn't he a big part of the problem? He decided long ago that Party came before Country.
    His party is at risk of permanent damage if they do not disown this loser pronto.
    Let's hope they wait a while longer then.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,214
    Some new functionality added to UK govt coronavirus data page.

    One thing it shows clearly now is the impact of Drakeford's firebreak. He may still have been late doing it though.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Question

    If we are no longer under the aegis of the EUMA, who is certifying this vaccine for us?

    Mhra
    Who might be quicker off the mark than the EMA which has yet to authorise purchase of the Pfizer vaccine. When the move from London was announced it was pointed out that this would lead to reduced capacity at least initially

    https://pharmaphorum.com/news/ema-counts-the-cost-of-brexit-in-lost-staff-and-narrower-workload/
    If we'd joined then we'd have had to give up our deals to the EU as well so it would be 40m doses for the EU rather than UK.

    I'm sad for all those EU countries that have taken part in this scheme and will be at the back of the queue for a vaccine developed in part by a German company.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,503
    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:
    He says that he didn't know her name. I suppose I could use Google to see if there has ever been a more pathetic excuse.
    His other excuse is that after all he has two "Indians" as tenants in his many properties. A landlordly twist on the old "Some of my best friends..." line.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706

    DavidL said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    The language of some of the Trump acolytes is terrifying - they claim to be democrats but only as long as the democracy gives them the result they want.

    More than one is now urging State legislatures to by-pass the will of the people in the State and go to the Electoral College and support Trump even if more people in their state voted for Biden.

    It would be like the people of Surrey voting in 8 Liberal Democrat MPs and 3 Conservative MPs and the Conservative-controlled County Council deciding the eight LD MPs would be replaced by eight County Councillors (Conservative of course).

    As usual, such claims are "supported" by frankly nonsensical allegations of vote-rigging which would do the average banana republic proud.

    The GOP has had four years to prepare for this election, State legislatures have had plenty of opportunity to defraud the electorate and rig the vote and yet the Trump supporters seem to think somehow Democrats have been able to by-pass Republican officials and fix the election.

    The depressing thing is free speech means we are forced to endure these rantings.

    It needs Mitch McConnell to intervene.
    Isn't he a big part of the problem? He decided long ago that Party came before Country.
    His party is at risk of permanent damage if they do not disown this loser pronto.
    I fear you are imagining a return of the Republican party of Reagan and Bush.

    That is not happening, more likely is a shift to QAnon, but most likely is sticking with Trumpism, and probably the Trumps. Far from being permanently damaged they are remarkably successful still and may well have beaten any of Harris, Buttigieg, Sanders, Warren this time around, or indeed Biden if Pfizers announcement was a week or two earlier.

    As much as I wish your statement were true, the evidence points to the contrary, Trumpism could pretty much guarantee 65 million votes + in 2024 (efficiently distributed by state). It is a strong base to build on if Trump stays interested.
    I suspect that in 4 years Trump will be (a) dead (b) in jail (c) bankrupt or (d) some combination of the above. Doesn't mean that the next Republican candidate will not be cut from the same cloth of course.
  • stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    The language of some of the Trump acolytes is terrifying - they claim to be democrats but only as long as the democracy gives them the result they want.

    More than one is now urging State legislatures to by-pass the will of the people in the State and go to the Electoral College and support Trump even if more people in their state voted for Biden.

    It would be like the people of Surrey voting in 8 Liberal Democrat MPs and 3 Conservative MPs and the Conservative-controlled County Council deciding the eight LD MPs would be replaced by eight County Councillors (Conservative of course).

    As usual, such claims are "supported" by frankly nonsensical allegations of vote-rigging which would do the average banana republic proud.

    The GOP has had four years to prepare for this election, State legislatures have had plenty of opportunity to defraud the electorate and rig the vote and yet the Trump supporters seem to think somehow Democrats have been able to by-pass Republican officials and fix the election.

    The depressing thing is free speech means we are forced to endure these rantings.

    It needs Mitch McConnell to intervene.
    Isn't he a big part of the problem? He decided long ago that Party came before Country.
    Yes, but of the current Republican leaders he is also least tied into Trumps fate and has just been re-elected at 78 so less bothered about primary challengers than most. He may also decide Party comes before Trump, as well as before country.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:
    He says that he didn't know her name. I suppose I could use Google to see if there has ever been a more pathetic excuse.
    Well, there’s Cummings and his eye test.

    The best one I ever heard though was a pseudoscholar called David Fitzgerald, who claimed he had written a book proving a loony fringe theory to be true. On having it pointed out to him that he had offered no proof whatsoever, he said that the evidence was in his original draft but he left it out because it made the book too long.
    Yes, that's pretty good in a Queen of Hearts kind of way.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,273
    Trump could run again but I think Vice President would still be favourite for the GOP nomination eg in France in 2017 Sarkozy ran for the Les Republicains nomination after losing the presidency in 2012 but lost it to his PM Fillon who went on to lose the presidential election to Macron.

    In 1980 after Carter lost, the last President before Trump who lost the presidential election after only one term of his party in the White House, his Vice President Mondale won the nomination only to lose the general election to Reagan.

    I agree Buttigieg would be a good bet for the Democrats in 2024 if Biden decides not to run for re election and only serve the one term
  • Doesn't Trump running in 2024 mean Biden is far more likely to run as well?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,824
    That sounds.. bad.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,872

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:
    He says that he didn't know her name. I suppose I could use Google to see if there has ever been a more pathetic excuse.
    His other excuse is that after all he has two "Indians" as tenants in his many properties. A landlordly twist on the old "Some of my best friends..." line.
    Parliamentarians need to be better at bullcrap than that.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    DavidL said:

    Surely Harris will be in pole position come 2024 for the democrat nomination.

    Is Yang not in with a shout?

    Harris would start favorite, but not a shoo-in, imo.
    I really like Yang as an individual, super interesting guy, very smart, has identified big issues (don't agree with all the solutions), but he is never getting the nomination. He isn't part of the party machinery.
    My son really liked his program, especially the Universal Wage idea, but he's a bit geeky.
    Hmm...just in case he should ever read that I meant Yang was geeky not my son. Honest.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,273
    Scott_xP said:
    Consecutively in effect 'Sir John Major said a final vote could be staged on the outcome of the negotiations after an initial referendum on the principle.'
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    The language of some of the Trump acolytes is terrifying - they claim to be democrats but only as long as the democracy gives them the result they want.

    More than one is now urging State legislatures to by-pass the will of the people in the State and go to the Electoral College and support Trump even if more people in their state voted for Biden.

    It would be like the people of Surrey voting in 8 Liberal Democrat MPs and 3 Conservative MPs and the Conservative-controlled County Council deciding the eight LD MPs would be replaced by eight County Councillors (Conservative of course).

    As usual, such claims are "supported" by frankly nonsensical allegations of vote-rigging which would do the average banana republic proud.

    The GOP has had four years to prepare for this election, State legislatures have had plenty of opportunity to defraud the electorate and rig the vote and yet the Trump supporters seem to think somehow Democrats have been able to by-pass Republican officials and fix the election.

    The depressing thing is free speech means we are forced to endure these rantings.

    It needs Mitch McConnell to intervene.
    Isn't he a big part of the problem? He decided long ago that Party came before Country.
    His party is at risk of permanent damage if they do not disown this loser pronto.
    I fear you are imagining a return of the Republican party of Reagan and Bush.

    That is not happening, more likely is a shift to QAnon, but most likely is sticking with Trumpism, and probably the Trumps. Far from being permanently damaged they are remarkably successful still and may well have beaten any of Harris, Buttigieg, Sanders, Warren this time around, or indeed Biden if Pfizers announcement was a week or two earlier.

    As much as I wish your statement were true, the evidence points to the contrary, Trumpism could pretty much guarantee 65 million votes + in 2024 (efficiently distributed by state). It is a strong base to build on if Trump stays interested.
    I suspect that in 4 years Trump will be (a) dead (b) in jail (c) bankrupt or (d) some combination of the above. Doesn't mean that the next Republican candidate will not be cut from the same cloth of course.
    Only Trump could possibly pull off all 3 simultaneously.
  • Harris should be odds on favourite to be 2024 Presidential winner.

    She will be the heir apparent if Biden doesn't seek re-election and the Democrats should be favourites to hold the White House next time.

    Since the start of the 20th century only twice has a party lost the White House after just one term: Carter and Trump.

    Starting at 60% democrat 40% republican would be as far as I could lean. Of the 60% maybe its split Biden 20% Harris 30% Others 10%?

    Odds on feels way too short, but she may be value at the opening 7/2.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706

    Doesn't Trump running in 2024 mean Biden is far more likely to run as well?

    It wouldn't be a run, more of a zimmer frame face off.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,575
    edited November 2020
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:
    He says that he didn't know her name. I suppose I could use Google to see if there has ever been a more pathetic excuse.
    Well, there’s Cummings and his eye test.

    The best one I ever heard though was a pseudoscholar called David Fitzgerald, who claimed he had written a book proving a loony fringe theory to be true. On having it pointed out to him that he had offered no proof whatsoever, he said that the evidence was in his original draft but he left it out because it made the book too long.
    Yes, that's pretty good in a Queen of Hearts kind of way.
    Fermat's Last Theorem says hello.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    dixiedean said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    The language of some of the Trump acolytes is terrifying - they claim to be democrats but only as long as the democracy gives them the result they want.

    More than one is now urging State legislatures to by-pass the will of the people in the State and go to the Electoral College and support Trump even if more people in their state voted for Biden.

    It would be like the people of Surrey voting in 8 Liberal Democrat MPs and 3 Conservative MPs and the Conservative-controlled County Council deciding the eight LD MPs would be replaced by eight County Councillors (Conservative of course).

    As usual, such claims are "supported" by frankly nonsensical allegations of vote-rigging which would do the average banana republic proud.

    The GOP has had four years to prepare for this election, State legislatures have had plenty of opportunity to defraud the electorate and rig the vote and yet the Trump supporters seem to think somehow Democrats have been able to by-pass Republican officials and fix the election.

    The depressing thing is free speech means we are forced to endure these rantings.

    It needs Mitch McConnell to intervene.
    Isn't he a big part of the problem? He decided long ago that Party came before Country.
    His party is at risk of permanent damage if they do not disown this loser pronto.
    I fear you are imagining a return of the Republican party of Reagan and Bush.

    That is not happening, more likely is a shift to QAnon, but most likely is sticking with Trumpism, and probably the Trumps. Far from being permanently damaged they are remarkably successful still and may well have beaten any of Harris, Buttigieg, Sanders, Warren this time around, or indeed Biden if Pfizers announcement was a week or two earlier.

    As much as I wish your statement were true, the evidence points to the contrary, Trumpism could pretty much guarantee 65 million votes + in 2024 (efficiently distributed by state). It is a strong base to build on if Trump stays interested.
    I suspect that in 4 years Trump will be (a) dead (b) in jail (c) bankrupt or (d) some combination of the above. Doesn't mean that the next Republican candidate will not be cut from the same cloth of course.
    Only Trump could possibly pull off all 3 simultaneously.
    If he has a heart attack on the day of the election while in jail for fraud having previously been declared bankrupt...I think that would cover it.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123
    RobD said:

    That sounds.. bad.
    There were pretty sizable crowds at the Speedway GPs (six of the eight were in Poland):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5VGfuAUqkg
  • RobD said:

    That sounds.. bad.
    21k cases at 50% positivity?

    Very scary. Probably worse than our first wave peak in reality.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:
    He says that he didn't know her name. I suppose I could use Google to see if there has ever been a more pathetic excuse.
    Well, there’s Cummings and his eye test.

    The best one I ever heard though was a pseudoscholar called David Fitzgerald, who claimed he had written a book proving a loony fringe theory to be true. On having it pointed out to him that he had offered no proof whatsoever, he said that the evidence was in his original draft but he left it out because it made the book too long.
    Yes, that's pretty good in a Queen of Hearts kind of way.
    Fermat's Last Theorem says hello.
    Although Wiles did eventually prove that in a book length study.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,872
    edited November 2020
    Oh good, we can all pretend it matters even though we know differently. I'm better Martin then Merkel - ancestral homeland and most important leader in Europe.

    Edit, forgot Varadkar wasn't PM now.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:
    He says that he didn't know her name. I suppose I could use Google to see if there has ever been a more pathetic excuse.
    Well, there’s Cummings and his eye test.

    The best one I ever heard though was a pseudoscholar called David Fitzgerald, who claimed he had written a book proving a loony fringe theory to be true. On having it pointed out to him that he had offered no proof whatsoever, he said that the evidence was in his original draft but he left it out because it made the book too long.
    Yes, that's pretty good in a Queen of Hearts kind of way.
    Fermat's Last Theorem says hello.
    That's a great story but was he not ultimately vindicated after the modest gap of 350 years or so? Who knows, in 2370 they may conclude that Trump really did win.
  • Doesn't Trump running in 2024 mean Biden is far more likely to run as well?

    He'd be 82 at the start of his second term, and 86 at the end of it. And it's known as quite a tough job. I just don't see it.

    He's said he was a bridge, and I take him at his word on that.

    It's also not obvious he'd have the best chance in 2024. This isn't actually a criticism as I think it was right for 2020 with hindsight - but he's a low energy person at a time people wanted a break from high energy, a throw back to the administration of a President with high retrospective approval ratings, and a somewhat "generic" Democrat in a country which is slightly more blue than red at the moment. That isn't necessarily the recipe for 2024 if Trump runs again - people may well be a bit bored of low energy, the economy may be at a sluggish phase and so on. The right offer might well be "something different and more exciting... but not THAT different and exciting".
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,772
    edited November 2020
    HYUFD said:

    Trump could run again but I think Vice President would still be favourite for the GOP nomination eg in France in 2017 Sarkozy ran for the Les Republicains nomination after losing the presidency in 2012 but lost it to his PM Fillon who went on to lose the presidential election to Macron.

    In 1980 after Carter lost, the last President before Trump who lost the presidential election after only one term of his party in the White House, his Vice President Mondale won the nomination only to lose the general election to Reagan.

    I agree Buttigieg would be a good bet for the Democrats in 2024 if Biden decides not to run for re election and only serve the one term

    IF Biden doesn’t run in 2024, I think there will be a LOT of pressure to coalesce around Harris. Whatever your views may be of her as a candidate, her strengths and weaknesses etc. It would be bad optics to overlook an incumbent VP who wants it, particularly one who has made history already by virtue of being the first black and female VP.

    Of course, she might choose not to run, but I don’t get that impression from her. I think she’s ambitious enough to go for it and of course she’s run before (not at all a criticism, just an observation). I do think, however, if she wants to win in 2024 she’s going to have to improve on her 2020 campaign(s). I think she’s very talented and very sharp but I found her a bit of a lacklustre campaigner, which I must admit surprised me.

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177
    ydoethur said:

    Question

    If we are no longer under the aegis of the EUMA, who is certifying this vaccine for us?

    Mhra
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    Here's a real test: a referendum on Brexit or listening to a single thing Steve Hilton ever said: what was the bigger error by DC?
  • JACK_WJACK_W Posts: 682
    The older gentleman of the USA running for office has great merit.

    Personally I have determined to run for my 23rd term as member for the Auchentennach Constituency in the elected Jacobite House of Lords. Total electorate 1

    Jack W is 124 .... :smiley:
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Have to love Trump's dismissal of Cabinet members - none of the usual platitudes like over here;

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1325859407620689922
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    JACK_W said:

    The older gentleman of the USA running for office has great merit.

    Personally I have determined to run for my 23rd term as member for the Auchentennach Constituency in the elected Jacobite House of Lords. Total electorate 1

    Jack W is 124 .... :smiley:

    The ongoing power of your mighty ARSE inspires us all, your grace.
  • Harris should be odds on favourite to be 2024 Presidential winner.

    She will be the heir apparent if Biden doesn't seek re-election and the Democrats should be favourites to hold the White House next time.

    Since the start of the 20th century only twice has a party lost the White House after just one term: Carter and Trump.

    Starting at 60% democrat 40% republican would be as far as I could lean. Of the 60% maybe its split Biden 20% Harris 30% Others 10%?

    Odds on feels way too short, but she may be value at the opening 7/2.
    First term parties have held onto the Oval Office at the first time of asking 11/13 times since the start of the 20th century. That's 85% of the time. Drop down perhaps to 70% to be generous to the GOP.

    Harris for nominee I'd estimate to be at least 75% chance. If Biden retires or worse it should be virtually 100% she'd hold the nomination, even if she doesn't she would be the presumptive favourite from the start and will get key backing as presumptive nominee. I suspect the likes of Buttigieg would rather be part of her team than run against her. I expect the nomination would be as much a lock for her as 2016 was for Hillary.

    .7 * .75 = 52.5% chance (and I think I'm being conservative in both of those). Odds on favourite.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,872
    MrEd said:

    Have to love Trump's dismissal of Cabinet members - none of the usual platitudes like over here;

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1325859407620689922

    They guy's lucky not to have been called a useless idiot on his way out like some of them.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    MrEd said:

    Have to love Trump's dismissal of Cabinet members - none of the usual platitudes like over here;

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1325859407620689922

    But I am not going to do so because he told me to quit, presumably.
This discussion has been closed.