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The decline and fall of the GOP – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,169
edited November 2020 in General
The decline and fall of the GOP – politicalbetting.com

It's come to this: A neighbor reports that AG William Barr's house in McLean is being picketed by Trump supporters who believe he's not doing enough to lock up Joe Biden pic.twitter.com/Ko6Mbyfi97

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    I'm nervous, 538 have increased Trump's chances. Admittedly from 10% to 11%, but they also sound a bit wobbly on PA.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    I'm nervous, 538 have increased Trump's chances. Admittedly from 10% to 11%, but they also sound a bit wobbly on PA.

    I think we will all be worried until an outcome becomes clear. Florida is really important because early votes look set to be released early on the night and hopefully that will start a pro Jo media narrative.
  • On topic, there is a risk that where America leads, we follow.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    There's a really good question here: how does the US get unfucked (politically)?
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,708
    If the Federal Judge rules that the drive-thru votes in Texas are invalid, where does the case go from there?

    Does his Judgement over-rule the Texas Supreme Court?

    And if it does, can his Judgement be appealed to a Federal Appeals Court?

    And after that would it ultimately go to the US Supreme Court?
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    MikeL said:

    If the Federal Judge rules that the drive-thru votes in Texas are invalid, where does the case go from there?

    Does his Judgement over-rule the Texas Supreme Court?

    And if it does, can his Judgement be appealed to a Federal Appeals Court?

    And after that would it ultimately go to the US Supreme Court?

    Yes, yes and yes.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    The theory:
    "What a piece of work is a man! How noble in reason, how infinite in faculty! In form and moving how express and admirable! In action how like an angel, in apprehension how like a god! The beauty of the world. The paragon of animals."

    The experiment:
    Trump et al
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    rcs1000 said:

    There's a really good question here: how does the US get unfucked (politically)?

    When one party or the other decides to break the cycle and put up candidates who value public service above their own enrichment, then actually follow through once elected and legislate for those who voted for them rather than those who donate to campaigns.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    IshmaelZ said:

    I'm nervous, 538 have increased Trump's chances. Admittedly from 10% to 11%, but they also sound a bit wobbly on PA.

    I was anticipating nerves around 48 hours prior to Nov 3rd. It's to be expected.

    The ABC/Washington Post Florida poll at Trump +2 will have given a big boost to Trump's hopes but at the moment it's a relative outlier. Gravis and Fox News both had Biden ahead +6 and +7 respectively and their sampling was also more recent. I remain confident about Florida.

    I've been waiting to get on the Spreadex Electoral College market having missed the earlier good prices for Biden in the 280 to 290 range. He is now at 317 to buy and I don't find that particularly attractive.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Robert, there's a piece on CNN (their lead in fact) about how the US is no longer the global leader. I think we are witnessing a paradigm shift. A combination of factors but particularly Donald Trump's Presidency along with Asia's relatively brilliant handling of coronavirus are probably causes.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/01/world/trump-us-global-leadership-election-analysis-intl/index.html

  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited November 2020
    And this CNN polling may steady nerves: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/31/politics/cnn-polls-michigan-wisconsin-arizona-north-carolina/index.html

    I see the Mail on Sunday are trying to rock the boat by resurrecting the Hunter Biden story. Whatever is or is not behind the story I have come to have a visceral loathing of the Mail.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    rcs1000 said:

    There's a really good question here: how does the US get unfucked (politically)?

    Why it probably won't is probably a better question than how.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    I think one of the stories of the night will be how the Midwest did for Trump, in much the same way that the Rust Belt became synonymous with 2016 the other way.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    A great piece about the Hunter story in the NY Times. Unfortunately the mailonline has a big global reach but they really are pratts for getting involved in this and with a very provocative headline.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/31/us/politics/rudy-giuliani-biden.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage
  • MikeL said:

    If the Federal Judge rules that the drive-thru votes in Texas are invalid, where does the case go from there?

    Does his Judgement over-rule the Texas Supreme Court?

    And if it does, can his Judgement be appealed to a Federal Appeals Court?

    And after that would it ultimately go to the US Supreme Court?

    IANAL but IIUC:
    1) Yes, it can go to a Federal Appeals Court
    2) After that either side could appeal it to SCOTUS, but it's up to SCOTUS whether or not to take it

    It I was a ratfucking partisan judge I think what I'd do would be to just tell them to make sure they had a separate count for the ballots cast in the disputed way, then tell everybody to come back in a week. In all probability it will turn out not to be important in which case you can make some reasonable-sounding judge-like ruling, but if an important race turns out to turn on these ballots you can turn the ratfucking up to 11, and also start the clock ticking later, reducing the time for appeals.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    I'm nervous, 538 have increased Trump's chances. Admittedly from 10% to 11%, but they also sound a bit wobbly on PA.

    I was anticipating nerves around 48 hours prior to Nov 3rd. It's to be expected.

    The ABC/Washington Post Florida poll at Trump +2 will have given a big boost to Trump's hopes but at the moment it's a relative outlier. Gravis and Fox News both had Biden ahead +6 and +7 respectively and their sampling was also more recent. I remain confident about Florida.

    I've been waiting to get on the Spreadex Electoral College market having missed the earlier good prices for Biden in the 280 to 290 range. He is now at 317 to buy and I don't find that particularly attractive.
    Florida is a close race, so having a respected pollster give trump a small lead is not unexpected, it does a good job of kicking off nerves though.
    As you say though it is a bit of an outlier but is also perfectly reasonable.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,708
    edited November 2020
    Trump back to 10% on 538.

    Two very conflicting polls just out from ABC/Wash Post:

    FL - Trump +2
    PA - Biden +7

    Apparently Biden is spending all of Monday in PA - ultimately I think it all boils down to PA - whoever wins PA will win.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    There's a really good question here: how does the US get unfucked (politically)?

    When one party or the other decides to break the cycle and put up candidates who value public service above their own enrichment, then actually follow through once elected and legislate for those who voted for them rather than those who donate to campaigns.
    ‘Never’ is shorter.
  • rcs1000 said:

    There's a really good question here: how does the US get unfucked (politically)?

    Generally this kind of thing happens gradually. There's a lot of attention on voter suppression and legal ratfuckery in this cycle, but that's not because it's new, it's mainly because Trump says the quiet part out loud. Voting access is gradually getting better, and what used to be shockingly bad voting machines and audit trails are getting gradually better.

    Trump loses, judges who were appointed for their hackishness at that precise moment get more into the whole judge thing and less into the hack thing, others retire and get replaced, Dems add some new states, EC-related demographic trends come and go. Populism seems to be in decline everywhere, its appeal is mostly proportional to the length of time since it was last tried.

    Currently Trumpism appears nasty and dangerous but also *powerful*. If Trump loses comprehensively it will look increasingly *ridiculous*, as Brexit already does. The GOP will still have a Trumpist element but for all its faults the US system can correct very quickly; You're only a single primary from a quite different GOP - or rather, the same GOP, but with different strains in the ascendant.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    rcs1000 said:

    There's a really good question here: how does the US get unfucked (politically)?

    Starts with a Biden win
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,713
    rcs1000 said:

    There's a really good question here: how does the US get unfucked (politically)?

    I am not sure that it can. There is an increasing divide, and how do you negotiate with QAnon type lunacy?

    The Atlantic thinks it as dangerous as the 1850s.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/10/biden-2020-trump-election/616912/
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    MikeL said:

    Trump back to 10% on 538.

    Two very conflicting polls just out from ABC/Wash Post:

    FL - Trump +2
    PA - Biden +7

    Apparently Biden is spending all of Monday in PA - ultimately I think it all boils down to PA - whoever wins PA will win.

    I'll wager you £10 than it will have nothing to do with PA. Fancy a bet?

    By the time Pennsylvania finish their count Biden will be over 300 EV's.
  • A flying column of armed zealots in pick up trucks, their banners streaming behind them. Seems familiar.

    https://twitter.com/leahmcelrath/status/1322704582875717632?s=20
  • A flying column of armed zealots in pick up trucks, their banners streaming behind them. Seems familiar.

    https://twitter.com/leahmcelrath/status/1322704582875717632?s=20

    It's a middle-aged man thing, when your hair starts falling out it's either a convertible or a big truck with flags and things, and Texas and Syria are both too hot for a convertible.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    I'm nervous, 538 have increased Trump's chances. Admittedly from 10% to 11%, but they also sound a bit wobbly on PA.

    I was anticipating nerves around 48 hours prior to Nov 3rd. It's to be expected.

    The ABC/Washington Post Florida poll at Trump +2 will have given a big boost to Trump's hopes but at the moment it's a relative outlier. Gravis and Fox News both had Biden ahead +6 and +7 respectively and their sampling was also more recent. I remain confident about Florida.

    I've been waiting to get on the Spreadex Electoral College market having missed the earlier good prices for Biden in the 280 to 290 range. He is now at 317 to buy and I don't find that particularly attractive.
    Spreadex has a rather greedy 8 point spread on their ECV markets, Sporting is more reasonable with a 6 point spread and where Biden is quoted at 307-313, i.e. 313 to buy. This price has barely moved now for 3 weeks and is unlikely to fall this side of the election taking place, unless there is some kind of shock horror occurrence taking place in the polls.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    rcs1000 said:

    There's a really good question here: how does the US get unfucked (politically)?

    History suggests recovery follows a catastrophe.
  • MikeL said:

    Trump back to 10% on 538.

    Two very conflicting polls just out from ABC/Wash Post:

    FL - Trump +2
    PA - Biden +7

    Apparently Biden is spending all of Monday in PA - ultimately I think it all boils down to PA - whoever wins PA will win.

    Pennsylvania is important with its 20 ECVs, but not as important as say Florida with its 29. Trump is quite capable of winning without PA.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Reviewing my 2016 performance I am reminded I was able to get @3.05 on Trump to win in Ohio.

    Betting markets know sweet FA
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,080
    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    There's a really good question here: how does the US get unfucked (politically)?

    Starts with a Biden win
    Necessary of course, but not sufficient.

    Decontaminating US politics will be the work of multiple electoral cycles, and in large parts of the US, there is no recognition of the state of moral, political and financial corruption that Trump has brought into the system. In fact its rather the reverse: Tump projects his own crimes onto his competition. The more that he shouts for the arrest of his opponents, the more we realise the depravity of his own crimes.

    I have felt for some time that the US will need the catharsis of a Trump trial in order to show that not even a President is above the law, but the risk to the social fabric will give pause to anyone who supports the idea. Yet in order to establish what went wrong a due process of some kind will be needed.

    Graham might cling on in SC, though it will be very close, and McConnell in Kentucky, although it seems he is seriously ill, but these chief accomplices also need to be held to account.

    Whatever the result on Tuesday, the US is facing some very grim times ahead. At least with a Biden victory we can gain a little confidence that the constitution and the American political system can restore balance. With a Trump victory America will be headed towards an inevitable eclipse.

    Whether in some kind of new relationship with the EU, or a restored CANZUK alliance- or both- Britain is going to need to address the decline of the special relationship in pretty quick order. Unlikely to be Johnson doing it though.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited November 2020

    MikeL said:

    Trump back to 10% on 538.

    Two very conflicting polls just out from ABC/Wash Post:

    FL - Trump +2
    PA - Biden +7

    Apparently Biden is spending all of Monday in PA - ultimately I think it all boils down to PA - whoever wins PA will win.

    Pennsylvania is important with its 20 ECVs, but not as important as say Florida with its 29. Trump is quite capable of winning without PA.
    That makes no sense. Trump is defending in both Florida and PA. Holding Florida cannot therefore 'compensate' for losing PA. On the other hand Biden can obviously win without PA if he wins the longer shot of FL instead.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    Cicero said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    There's a really good question here: how does the US get unfucked (politically)?

    Starts with a Biden win
    Necessary of course, but not sufficient.

    Decontaminating US politics will be the work of multiple electoral cycles, and in large parts of the US, there is no recognition of the state of moral, political and financial corruption that Trump has brought into the system. In fact its rather the reverse: Tump projects his own crimes onto his competition. The more that he shouts for the arrest of his opponents, the more we realise the depravity of his own crimes.

    I have felt for some time that the US will need the catharsis of a Trump trial in order to show that not even a President is above the law, but the risk to the social fabric will give pause to anyone who supports the idea. Yet in order to establish what went wrong a due process of some kind will be needed.

    Graham might cling on in SC, though it will be very close, and McConnell in Kentucky, although it seems he is seriously ill, but these chief accomplices also need to be held to account.

    Whatever the result on Tuesday, the US is facing some very grim times ahead. At least with a Biden victory we can gain a little confidence that the constitution and the American political system can restore balance. With a Trump victory America will be headed towards an inevitable eclipse.

    Whether in some kind of new relationship with the EU, or a restored CANZUK alliance- or both- Britain is going to need to address the decline of the special relationship in pretty quick order. Unlikely to be Johnson doing it though.
    But what to do about a polarising media and social media that thrives on increasing division and outrage?
  • Cicero said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    There's a really good question here: how does the US get unfucked (politically)?

    Starts with a Biden win
    Necessary of course, but not sufficient.

    Decontaminating US politics will be the work of multiple electoral cycles, and in large parts of the US, there is no recognition of the state of moral, political and financial corruption that Trump has brought into the system. In fact its rather the reverse: Tump projects his own crimes onto his competition. The more that he shouts for the arrest of his opponents, the more we realise the depravity of his own crimes.

    I have felt for some time that the US will need the catharsis of a Trump trial in order to show that not even a President is above the law, but the risk to the social fabric will give pause to anyone who supports the idea. Yet in order to establish what went wrong a due process of some kind will be needed.

    Graham might cling on in SC, though it will be very close, and McConnell in Kentucky, although it seems he is seriously ill, but these chief accomplices also need to be held to account.

    Whatever the result on Tuesday, the US is facing some very grim times ahead. At least with a Biden victory we can gain a little confidence that the constitution and the American political system can restore balance. With a Trump victory America will be headed towards an inevitable eclipse.

    Whether in some kind of new relationship with the EU, or a restored CANZUK alliance- or both- Britain is going to need to address the decline of the special relationship in pretty quick order. Unlikely to be Johnson doing it though.
    Great post. The current Tory leadership likes Trump’s loading of federal courts with highly partisan judges. They hate the UK’s independent judiciary. Hence, the plan to emasculate it. I suspect, though, that there are not enough lawyers in the UK willing to play along for us to go the full USA. At least, I hope so.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    edited November 2020
    It is possible to overdo the gloom and engage in patronising moralising about it. But some of the stories particularly on the shamelessness of electoral manipulations and partisan legal rulings are genuinely scary - that the potential for abuse exists is true in many places without in reality being a huge issue, but the boundaries of decency are being tested and that grubbiness leaves a mark even if the worst offenders are beaten. Payback rather than redress may end up the result. They have one boot and it may end up on the other for, rather than getting another to wear.
  • theenglishborntheenglishborn Posts: 164
    edited November 2020

    MikeL said:

    Trump back to 10% on 538.

    Two very conflicting polls just out from ABC/Wash Post:

    FL - Trump +2
    PA - Biden +7

    Apparently Biden is spending all of Monday in PA - ultimately I think it all boils down to PA - whoever wins PA will win.

    Pennsylvania is important with its 20 ECVs, but not as important as say Florida with its 29. Trump is quite capable of winning without PA.
    Biden wins with MI, WI and PA. Trump needs to win 1 of those (assuming AZ goes to trump, if not he will need 2 to cover AZ). If Biden losses PA he has other routes but they are harder for him, Trump loses PA it's likely over, as his other routes to victory after that are even harder than Biden's. So that's why PA is seen as the tipping point, however if trump loses FL he needs 2 of MI, WI and PA to cover it and those are harder to win for him since he only just won them last time. Basically if FL goes to Biden it's more of less over, not mathematically but in reality it is.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Cicero said:



    Whether in some kind of new relationship with the EU, or a restored CANZUK alliance- or both- Britain is going to need to address the decline of the special relationship in pretty quick order. Unlikely to be Johnson doing it though.

    Even though 'Global Britain' is a meaningless one speed hand job of a slogan the UK to needs to come up with some new bilateral defence arrangements ASAFP because the end of NATO in its current form is nigh. South Africa would be a good candidate as they need technical and professional help while the UK needs to be able to project power into the South Atlantic.
  • Good morning, everyone.

    Betting Post

    F1: backed Perez at 4.6 to be top 6 and Albon not to be classified at 5.25.

    https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2020/11/imola-pre-race-2020.html

    Perez's Q2 time was within a tenth of beating half of those ahead of him, and he has choice of tyres.

    Albon's been moaning all weekend and has a couple of DNFs this year, plus plenty of contact with other drivers.
  • MikeL said:

    Trump back to 10% on 538.

    Two very conflicting polls just out from ABC/Wash Post:

    FL - Trump +2
    PA - Biden +7

    Apparently Biden is spending all of Monday in PA - ultimately I think it all boils down to PA - whoever wins PA will win.

    Pennsylvania is important with its 20 ECVs, but not as important as say Florida with its 29. Trump is quite capable of winning without PA.
    I'm not sure that is right. It's hard to construct a path to 270+ for Trump that doesn't have him retaining one of PA, WI or MI, and the other two seem out of reach. There are a lot of scenarios where he wins FL but loses the EC - indeed that is my central case.
    Off topic, the government says I can finish my holiday!

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/prime-minister-announces-new-national-restrictions
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited November 2020
    Huge poll by Selzer in Iowa. Selzer is an Iowa specialist and gives the Donald a 7 point lead, 48 to 41. Their September poll as a 47-47 tie.

    https://eu.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/iowa-poll/2020/10/31/election-2020-iowa-poll-president-donald-trump-leads-joe-biden/6061937002/
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Incidentally, Germany has achieved something extraordinary - it finally opened the Brandenburg airport yesterday.

    Just nine years late and €3 billion over budget.

    And in the middle of a global pandemic that’s cut passenger numbers by 70%.

    And after the airline that was to use it as its main hub has gone bust.

    But apart from that, it’s been a great success.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    Are we not seeing the right disengage with and move on from conservatism?
  • I see Trump winning enough of the tight races to stay in the fight and the courts getting him over the line.

    When I’m told that the US and the UK share a common set of values, it scares the life out of me. But there is no doubt that people such as Johnson, Patel, Gove and Cummings look at how the GOP’s highly effective hollowing out of American democracy has been largely facilitated by partisan judges and like what they see. Hence the Tory plans to hobble the independent judiciary here.

    And the independent civil service. It goes back further, witness Cameron/Osborne's gerrymandered boundary reform.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Alistair said:

    Huge poll by Selzer in Iowa. Selzer is an Iowa specialist and gives the Donald a 7 point lead, 48 to 41. Their September poll as a 47-47 tie.

    https://eu.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/iowa-poll/2020/10/31/election-2020-iowa-poll-president-donald-trump-leads-joe-biden/6061937002/

    That would of course still be a swing away from Trump.

    But Biden could do with the poll being wrong. It’s 1976 since a Dem has won the White House without Iowa.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Belgium 1,002 deaths/1m on worldometer, joining Peru and San Marino.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    edited November 2020
    IshmaelZ said:

    Belgium 1,002 deaths/1m on worldometer, joining Peru and San Marino.

    I’m glad I read that twice. I was appalled at San Marino’s death rate until I realised the figure was per capita.

    Does anyone know why Belgium is doing so badly? Heck, they’re even doing worse than we are and that must take some effort.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    ydoethur said:

    Alistair said:

    Huge poll by Selzer in Iowa. Selzer is an Iowa specialist and gives the Donald a 7 point lead, 48 to 41. Their September poll as a 47-47 tie.

    https://eu.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/iowa-poll/2020/10/31/election-2020-iowa-poll-president-donald-trump-leads-joe-biden/6061937002/

    That would of course still be a swing away from Trump.

    But Biden could do with the poll being wrong. It’s 1976 since a Dem has won the White House without Iowa.
    The implied turnout in the poll from their likely voter model is lower (in absolute as well as percentage terms) than 2016 actual turnout.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    edited November 2020

    I see Trump winning enough of the tight races to stay in the fight and the courts getting him over the line.

    When I’m told that the US and the UK share a common set of values, it scares the life out of me. But there is no doubt that people such as Johnson, Patel, Gove and Cummings look at how the GOP’s highly effective hollowing out of American democracy has been largely facilitated by partisan judges and like what they see. Hence the Tory plans to hobble the independent judiciary here.

    And the independent civil service. It goes back further, witness Cameron/Osborne's gerrymandered boundary reform.
    The one that never happened, and is now being regerrymandered?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    edited November 2020
    If Johnson were serious about this Red Wall/Levelling Up bollocks he would have worn Hartlepool Utd's new kit for his #lockdown2 press conference.

    https://twitter.com/giantpoppywatch/status/1319230904267608064
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Dura_Ace said:

    If Johnson were serious about this Red Wall/Levelling Up bollocks he would have worn Hartlepool Utd's new kit for his #lockdown2 press conference.

    https://twitter.com/giantpoppywatch/status/1319230904267608064

    That is as subtle as a TSE pun.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Belgium 1,002 deaths/1m on worldometer, joining Peru and San Marino.

    I’m glad I read that twice. I was appalled at San Marino’s death rate until I realised the figure was per capita.

    Does anyone know why Belgium is doing so badly? Heck, they’re even doing worse than we are and that must take some effort.
    For the first wave I assumed it was because they are a small dense nation at the epicentre of European travel.

    For the second wave I have no clue.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,221
    MikeL said:

    If the Federal Judge rules that the drive-thru votes in Texas are invalid, where does the case go from there?

    Does his Judgement over-rule the Texas Supreme Court?

    And if it does, can his Judgement be appealed to a Federal Appeals Court?

    And after that would it ultimately go to the US Supreme Court?

    Fifth Circuit federal appeals court. Which is heavily conservative and seats more Trump appointees than those of Obama and Clinton combined (which gives an idea of the extent to which Trump has given priority to packing the courts over the last four years.

    Whether Federal Courts can set aside the judgment of state courts in matters governing state electoral processes like that is deeply controversial. The constitution would suggest not, and John Roberts kinda sorta agrees. The four other conservative justices don’t, and Barrett has yet to issue any opinion on the matter, but will quite likely side with them - if it makes a difference to the election outcome.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, Germany has achieved something extraordinary - it finally opened the Brandenburg airport yesterday.

    Just nine years late and €3 billion over budget.

    And in the middle of a global pandemic that’s cut passenger numbers by 70%.

    And after the airline that was to use it as its main hub has gone bust.

    But apart from that, it’s been a great success.

    In their favour though they didn't do any insane shit with it's IATA code unlike Istanbul or Kazakhstan
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Nigelb said:

    MikeL said:

    If the Federal Judge rules that the drive-thru votes in Texas are invalid, where does the case go from there?

    Does his Judgement over-rule the Texas Supreme Court?

    And if it does, can his Judgement be appealed to a Federal Appeals Court?

    And after that would it ultimately go to the US Supreme Court?

    Fifth Circuit federal appeals court. Which is heavily conservative and seats more Trump appointees than those of Obama and Clinton combined (which gives an idea of the extent to which Trump has given priority to packing the courts over the last four years.

    Whether Federal Courts can set aside the judgment of state courts in matters governing state electoral processes like that is deeply controversial. The constitution would suggest not, and John Roberts kinda sorta agrees. The four other conservative justices don’t, and Barrett has yet to issue any opinion on the matter, but will quite likely side with them - if it makes a difference to the election outcome.
    Granted I'm no expert on states rights but given the nature of the country it seems like legally states would have tremendous leeway on state level processes, for better and ill, and odd to not have that level of authority.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,221
  • ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Belgium 1,002 deaths/1m on worldometer, joining Peru and San Marino.

    I’m glad I read that twice. I was appalled at San Marino’s death rate until I realised the figure was per capita.

    Does anyone know why Belgium is doing so badly? Heck, they’re even doing worse than we are and that must take some effort.
    I'm not sure they're doing enough testing - the positivity rate in Liege is 41% - across England its 6-7%, with "hot spots" in the teens.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,221
    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    There's a really good question here: how does the US get unfucked (politically)?

    I am not sure that it can. There is an increasing divide, and how do you negotiate with QAnon type lunacy?

    The Atlantic thinks it as dangerous as the 1850s.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/10/biden-2020-trump-election/616912/
    Politico also takes a deep dive into what might happen with the Republicans and Trump, should they lose. It’s not encouraging.

    ‘There Are No Boundaries’: Experts Imagine Trump’s Post-Presidential Life if He Loses
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/10/30/imagining-post-president-trump-433704
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,816
    edited November 2020

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Belgium 1,002 deaths/1m on worldometer, joining Peru and San Marino.

    I’m glad I read that twice. I was appalled at San Marino’s death rate until I realised the figure was per capita.

    Does anyone know why Belgium is doing so badly? Heck, they’re even doing worse than we are and that must take some effort.
    I'm not sure they're doing enough testing - the positivity rate in Liege is 41% - across England its 6-7%, with "hot spots" in the teens.
    what exactly is testing achieving? Hospitalisations and death I get to some extent although deaths are being inflated due to the dying with covid not of it , however testing generally is achieving nothing in controlling the illlness is it?
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Belgium 1,002 deaths/1m on worldometer, joining Peru and San Marino.

    I’m glad I read that twice. I was appalled at San Marino’s death rate until I realised the figure was per capita.

    Does anyone know why Belgium is doing so badly? Heck, they’re even doing worse than we are and that must take some effort.
    Bit of an understatement. Per capita equivalent they're running at 120k cases a day.



  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    edited November 2020

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Belgium 1,002 deaths/1m on worldometer, joining Peru and San Marino.

    I’m glad I read that twice. I was appalled at San Marino’s death rate until I realised the figure was per capita.

    Does anyone know why Belgium is doing so badly? Heck, they’re even doing worse than we are and that must take some effort.
    I'm not sure they're doing enough testing - the positivity rate in Liege is 41% - across England its 6-7%, with "hot spots" in the teens.
    Belgium was one of the worst back in May. At the time they sought to explain this partly by recording methodology, claiming that deaths were being put down as "suspected Covid" without testing - an example given was a death in a care home where the virus had already been confirmed present in the home. They also have a very high care home population - not far off double the UK's, adjusted for population. During the first wave they were one of a few countries - as were we - where over half the Covid deaths were in homes.
  • Alistair said:

    Huge poll by Selzer in Iowa. Selzer is an Iowa specialist and gives the Donald a 7 point lead, 48 to 41. Their September poll as a 47-47 tie.

    https://eu.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/iowa-poll/2020/10/31/election-2020-iowa-poll-president-donald-trump-leads-joe-biden/6061937002/

    Been reading elsewhere on the interwebs about this poll, it is a very very respected pollster but somethings in the poll are quite surprising. IA1 shows trump winning by 15 but Clinton won by 5 and there is a massive swing with independents from last poll.

    Obviously a poll for those expecting it going for a Trump win to shout about, but the above makes me feel it's an outlier.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    NASUWT’s statement on schools and lockdown.

    https://www.nasuwt.org.uk/article-listing/nasuwt-comments-on-england-lockdown-announcment.html

    TLDR version:

    1) Government strategy has failed

    2) This is because promises made about health and safety have not been kept

    3) There needs to be a more ruthless approach to isolating staff/students if the explosion in cases is to be suppressed

    4) If they want social distancing in classrooms (how I hate that cliché) then we need smaller classes.
  • Dura_Ace said:

    If Johnson were serious about this Red Wall/Levelling Up bollocks he would have worn Hartlepool Utd's new kit for his #lockdown2 press conference.

    https://twitter.com/giantpoppywatch/status/1319230904267608064

    Given his lockdown decision is on a nonsensical level with hanging monkeys as spies you may be right.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    Dura_Ace said:

    If Johnson were serious about this Red Wall/Levelling Up bollocks he would have worn Hartlepool Utd's new kit for his #lockdown2 press conference.

    https://twitter.com/giantpoppywatch/status/1319230904267608064

    Given his lockdown decision is on a nonsensical level with hanging monkeys as spies you may be right.
    Monkeys as spies? I missed that one!
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited November 2020
    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    MikeL said:

    If the Federal Judge rules that the drive-thru votes in Texas are invalid, where does the case go from there?

    Does his Judgement over-rule the Texas Supreme Court?

    And if it does, can his Judgement be appealed to a Federal Appeals Court?

    And after that would it ultimately go to the US Supreme Court?

    Fifth Circuit federal appeals court. Which is heavily conservative and seats more Trump appointees than those of Obama and Clinton combined (which gives an idea of the extent to which Trump has given priority to packing the courts over the last four years.

    Whether Federal Courts can set aside the judgment of state courts in matters governing state electoral processes like that is deeply controversial. The constitution would suggest not, and John Roberts kinda sorta agrees. The four other conservative justices don’t, and Barrett has yet to issue any opinion on the matter, but will quite likely side with them - if it makes a difference to the election outcome.
    Granted I'm no expert on states rights but given the nature of the country it seems like legally states would have tremendous leeway on state level processes, for better and ill, and odd to not have that level of authority.
    There's an extremely dangerous strand of Conservative legal opinion that (I think) says that electoral administration cannot branch away from that which is explicitly legislated for by State legislatures. Which, at an extreme, includes the ability of state legislatures to fix their own elections (hence gerrymandering - although there has been some push back on that recently by state courts). Even if the result means that the state legislation prevents the conduct of a free and fair election. And whilst the Federal courts wouldn't be interested in elections at state level, they are claiming jurisdiction over State court interpretations of the state legislation for the Federal elections.

  • ydoethur said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    If Johnson were serious about this Red Wall/Levelling Up bollocks he would have worn Hartlepool Utd's new kit for his #lockdown2 press conference.

    https://twitter.com/giantpoppywatch/status/1319230904267608064

    Given his lockdown decision is on a nonsensical level with hanging monkeys as spies you may be right.
    Monkeys as spies? I missed that one!
    Hartlepool hung a monkey around the time of Waterloo for being a French spy
  • ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Belgium 1,002 deaths/1m on worldometer, joining Peru and San Marino.

    I’m glad I read that twice. I was appalled at San Marino’s death rate until I realised the figure was per capita.

    Does anyone know why Belgium is doing so badly? Heck, they’re even doing worse than we are and that must take some effort.
    I'm not sure they're doing enough testing - the positivity rate in Liege is 41% - across England its 6-7%, with "hot spots" in the teens.
    what exactly is testing achieving? Hospitalisations and death I get to some extent although deaths are being inflated due to the dying with covid not of it , however testing generally is achieving nothing in controlling the illlness is it?
    If its leading to isolation and contact tracing then it may be helping to slow the spread - especially if its picking up asymptomatic carriers via contacts. Guernsey now has 10 known cases - all in quarantine, all identified via test, track & trace, except for the initial case (which is a worry).

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Belgium 1,002 deaths/1m on worldometer, joining Peru and San Marino.

    I’m glad I read that twice. I was appalled at San Marino’s death rate until I realised the figure was per capita.

    Does anyone know why Belgium is doing so badly? Heck, they’re even doing worse than we are and that must take some effort.
    Mostly Wallonia by all accounts, so the Wallonia numbers (being one third of the population) must be apocalyptic. 4th on the list is Andorra which makes one think it's a Catholic enclave thing rather than just 3 skews because small populations.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    ydoethur said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    If Johnson were serious about this Red Wall/Levelling Up bollocks he would have worn Hartlepool Utd's new kit for his #lockdown2 press conference.

    https://twitter.com/giantpoppywatch/status/1319230904267608064

    Given his lockdown decision is on a nonsensical level with hanging monkeys as spies you may be right.
    Monkeys as spies? I missed that one!
    It's a famous legend related to Hartlepool. (became wider known when the club mascot "Hangus the monkey" got elected Mayor of Hartlepool a few years ago.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited November 2020
    That's a weird thing to say. So-called "Liberals" like Trudeau have shown what side of the fence they are on. Biden Kamala would likely side with Trudeau, not Macron.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    ydoethur said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    If Johnson were serious about this Red Wall/Levelling Up bollocks he would have worn Hartlepool Utd's new kit for his #lockdown2 press conference.

    https://twitter.com/giantpoppywatch/status/1319230904267608064

    Given his lockdown decision is on a nonsensical level with hanging monkeys as spies you may be right.
    Monkeys as spies? I missed that one!
    Hartlepool hung a monkey around the time of Waterloo for being a French spy
    Although there's a theory that the story arose from a "powder monkey" - term for a teenage boy who ran the gunpowder about sailing ships - and became an animal through retelling
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    ydoethur said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    If Johnson were serious about this Red Wall/Levelling Up bollocks he would have worn Hartlepool Utd's new kit for his #lockdown2 press conference.

    https://twitter.com/giantpoppywatch/status/1319230904267608064

    Given his lockdown decision is on a nonsensical level with hanging monkeys as spies you may be right.
    Monkeys as spies? I missed that one!
    Hartlepool hung a monkey around the time of Waterloo for being a French spy
    Wow. That’s some tail.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,463

    ydoethur said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    If Johnson were serious about this Red Wall/Levelling Up bollocks he would have worn Hartlepool Utd's new kit for his #lockdown2 press conference.

    https://twitter.com/giantpoppywatch/status/1319230904267608064

    Given his lockdown decision is on a nonsensical level with hanging monkeys as spies you may be right.
    Monkeys as spies? I missed that one!
    Hartlepool hung a monkey around the time of Waterloo for being a French spy
    40 or so years apparently (I never tried) one could start a fight in a Hartlepool pub by asking the apparently simple question 'Who hanged the monkey?'

    They seem to have to come to terms with the folklore now, though. The story was that an ape swam a shore from a wrecked ship which had been carrying a circus and the locals thought it was Frenchman, never having seen either an ape or a Frenchman before.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Belgium 1,002 deaths/1m on worldometer, joining Peru and San Marino.

    I’m glad I read that twice. I was appalled at San Marino’s death rate until I realised the figure was per capita.

    Does anyone know why Belgium is doing so badly? Heck, they’re even doing worse than we are and that must take some effort.
    Mostly Wallonia by all accounts, so the Wallonia numbers (being one third of the population) must be apocalyptic. 4th on the list is Andorra which makes one think it's a Catholic enclave thing rather than just 3 skews because small populations.
    Is that what @Alistair meant by a small, dense nation? A sideways dig at the legendary Wallonian intellect?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,425
    rcs1000 said:

    There's a really good question here: how does the US get unfucked (politically)?

    Let's imagine that Biden wins, and that he has a plan to fix the CDC and stop the Coronavirus within 100 days. And the plan works.

    It would be as clear a demonstration as you could hope for that facts and honesty really matter. You might hope that at least 60% of the voters would develop a better bullshit detector as a result.
  • ydoethur said:

    I see Trump winning enough of the tight races to stay in the fight and the courts getting him over the line.

    When I’m told that the US and the UK share a common set of values, it scares the life out of me. But there is no doubt that people such as Johnson, Patel, Gove and Cummings look at how the GOP’s highly effective hollowing out of American democracy has been largely facilitated by partisan judges and like what they see. Hence the Tory plans to hobble the independent judiciary here.

    And the independent civil service. It goes back further, witness Cameron/Osborne's gerrymandered boundary reform.
    The one that never happened, and is now being regerrymandered?
    Yes though I think the newer version is less rigged. CCHQ during the Blair government convinced itself Labour was cheating and possibly evil so the end justifies the means, and it may be that also motivates American Republicans.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Well done Pulpstar. An interesting header. A grisly state of affairs indeed!

    I was surprised though that Reagan found his way into the goodies column. He was leader when I first realised that US politics stank. Mainly South America where democracy always took a back seat to US interests but the dirty dealing was also domestic. The Oliver North affair for starters and for those who thought Thatcher gave too much love to Pinochet- Reagan didn't even bother with dinner and flowers.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,355

    A flying column of armed zealots in pick up trucks, their banners streaming behind them. Seems familiar.

    https://twitter.com/leahmcelrath/status/1322704582875717632?s=20

    Giving Hyfud new ideas, he will get to Scotland quicker than the tanks.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,463

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Belgium 1,002 deaths/1m on worldometer, joining Peru and San Marino.

    I’m glad I read that twice. I was appalled at San Marino’s death rate until I realised the figure was per capita.

    Does anyone know why Belgium is doing so badly? Heck, they’re even doing worse than we are and that must take some effort.
    I'm not sure they're doing enough testing - the positivity rate in Liege is 41% - across England its 6-7%, with "hot spots" in the teens.
    what exactly is testing achieving? Hospitalisations and death I get to some extent although deaths are being inflated due to the dying with covid not of it , however testing generally is achieving nothing in controlling the illlness is it?
    If its leading to isolation and contact tracing then it may be helping to slow the spread - especially if its picking up asymptomatic carriers via contacts. Guernsey now has 10 known cases - all in quarantine, all identified via test, track & trace, except for the initial case (which is a worry).

    I understand that the 10 cases were related on one individual who came back from the mainland having tested positive, and then visited her (I think) relations on the Island before the end of the quarantine period.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Roger said:

    Well done Pulpstar. An interesting header. A grisly state of affairs indeed!

    I was surprised though that Reagan found his way into the goodies column. He was leader when I first realised that US politics stank. Mainly South America where democracy always took a back seat to US interests but the dirty dealing was also domestic. The Oliver North affair for starters and for those who thought Thatcher gave too much love to Pinochet- Reagan didn't even bother with dinner and flowers.

    Ronald Reagan is guilty of the most brazen act of chutzpah ever, when making a Presidential address explaining Iran-Contra:

    ‘A few months ago, I told the American people I did not trade arms for hostages. My heart and my best intentions still tell me that is true, but the facts and the evidence tell me it is not.‘
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,713
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    If Johnson were serious about this Red Wall/Levelling Up bollocks he would have worn Hartlepool Utd's new kit for his #lockdown2 press conference.

    https://twitter.com/giantpoppywatch/status/1319230904267608064

    Given his lockdown decision is on a nonsensical level with hanging monkeys as spies you may be right.
    Monkeys as spies? I missed that one!
    Hartlepool hung a monkey around the time of Waterloo for being a French spy
    Wow. That’s some tail.
    Gibbon the chance they would do it again.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    ydoethur said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    If Johnson were serious about this Red Wall/Levelling Up bollocks he would have worn Hartlepool Utd's new kit for his #lockdown2 press conference.

    https://twitter.com/giantpoppywatch/status/1319230904267608064

    That is as subtle as a TSE pun.
    Subtle and Hartlipool are two words i never expected in the same sentence.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,355
    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, Germany has achieved something extraordinary - it finally opened the Brandenburg airport yesterday.

    Just nine years late and €3 billion over budget.

    And in the middle of a global pandemic that’s cut passenger numbers by 70%.

    And after the airline that was to use it as its main hub has gone bust.

    But apart from that, it’s been a great success.

    Bit better than 30 years for a new runway that has not even seen a turf cut or Bozo the Clown lying under a bulldozer
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Belgium 1,002 deaths/1m on worldometer, joining Peru and San Marino.

    I’m glad I read that twice. I was appalled at San Marino’s death rate until I realised the figure was per capita.

    Does anyone know why Belgium is doing so badly? Heck, they’re even doing worse than we are and that must take some effort.
    Mostly Wallonia by all accounts, so the Wallonia numbers (being one third of the population) must be apocalyptic. 4th on the list is Andorra which makes one think it's a Catholic enclave thing rather than just 3 skews because small populations.
    Is that what @Alistair meant by a small, dense nation? A sideways dig at the legendary Wallonian intellect?
    Does it have that reputation or is it just that the name sounds funny in English? It has always struck me as bad luck to have to call yourself a Walloon.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    Alistair said:
    The DMZ poll is definitely a Halloween Horror.
    IA-1 redder than IA-4 looks a bit odd though
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,463
    I've always had a bit of a soft spot for Hartlepool; one of the missed opportunities was a girl from there.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,355
    Dura_Ace said:

    Cicero said:



    Whether in some kind of new relationship with the EU, or a restored CANZUK alliance- or both- Britain is going to need to address the decline of the special relationship in pretty quick order. Unlikely to be Johnson doing it though.

    Even though 'Global Britain' is a meaningless one speed hand job of a slogan the UK to needs to come up with some new bilateral defence arrangements ASAFP because the end of NATO in its current form is nigh. South Africa would be a good candidate as they need technical and professional help while the UK needs to be able to project power into the South Atlantic.
    Global Britain ( soon to be Global England ) is well and truly F***ed. Wet paper pokes will too tough for them.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,425
    Alistair said:

    Huge poll by Selzer in Iowa. Selzer is an Iowa specialist and gives the Donald a 7 point lead, 48 to 41. Their September poll as a 47-47 tie.

    https://eu.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/iowa-poll/2020/10/31/election-2020-iowa-poll-president-donald-trump-leads-joe-biden/6061937002/

    Yes. Maybe the surge of White High School education voters is on its way. Terrifying.
  • ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Belgium 1,002 deaths/1m on worldometer, joining Peru and San Marino.

    I’m glad I read that twice. I was appalled at San Marino’s death rate until I realised the figure was per capita.

    Does anyone know why Belgium is doing so badly? Heck, they’re even doing worse than we are and that must take some effort.
    I'm not sure they're doing enough testing - the positivity rate in Liege is 41% - across England its 6-7%, with "hot spots" in the teens.
    what exactly is testing achieving? Hospitalisations and death I get to some extent although deaths are being inflated due to the dying with covid not of it , however testing generally is achieving nothing in controlling the illlness is it?
    If its leading to isolation and contact tracing then it may be helping to slow the spread - especially if its picking up asymptomatic carriers via contacts. Guernsey now has 10 known cases - all in quarantine, all identified via test, track & trace, except for the initial case (which is a worry).

    I understand that the 10 cases were related on one individual who came back from the mainland having tested positive, and then visited her (I think) relations on the Island before the end of the quarantine period.
    No. The index case was discovered when they requested a test prior to travel to the UK - AFAIK the source of their infection is still unknown, but all subsequent cases have been identified via track & trace - and all were already in quarantine.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,221
    If the election turns on Pennsylvania, and if it’s anywhere close, it will be a shitshow.
    Read the whole article, but this gives a flavour.

    In Pennsylvania, Republicans Might Only Need to Stall to Win
    A political analyst warned, “Harrisburg in 2020 could be Tallahassee in 2000.”
    https://www.newyorker.com/news/campaign-chronicles/in-pennsylvania-republicans-might-only-need-to-stall-to-win
    ... Republicans in Pennsylvania had refused to allow ballots to be counted, or even sorted and opened—a process known as pre-canvassing—before 7 a.m. on Election Day. This will likely cause significant delays. The count in Pennsylvania will be further delayed by the secrecy envelopes. Bob Harvie, a Democratic county commissioner in Bucks County, recently told me, of this summer’s primaries, “What took us the longest was to open the envelope, then open the secrecy envelope, then flatten the ballot as much as we could before it was counted. It was an endless process.” In the primary, his district counted seventy-two thousand votes. For the general election, he is expecting to count roughly a hundred and sixty thousand, and he estimates that it will take his team an hour to open every four thousand envelopes. “We’re going to have a hundred people working twenty-four hours a day to count these ballots,” Harvie said. Gene DiGirolamo, a Republican minority commissioner in the district, expressed frustration: “We’re stuck with the way the law is written.” He feared that it would be days after the election before Bucks would be able to come up with a preliminary vote count. “This isn’t just about Trump and Biden,” he told me. “We’ve got one shot of doing this, and if the country is waiting on Pennsylvania, we’re going to look terrible.”...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Belgium 1,002 deaths/1m on worldometer, joining Peru and San Marino.

    I’m glad I read that twice. I was appalled at San Marino’s death rate until I realised the figure was per capita.

    Does anyone know why Belgium is doing so badly? Heck, they’re even doing worse than we are and that must take some effort.
    Mostly Wallonia by all accounts, so the Wallonia numbers (being one third of the population) must be apocalyptic. 4th on the list is Andorra which makes one think it's a Catholic enclave thing rather than just 3 skews because small populations.
    Is that what @Alistair meant by a small, dense nation? A sideways dig at the legendary Wallonian intellect?
    Does it have that reputation or is it just that the name sounds funny in English? It has always struck me as bad luck to have to call yourself a Walloon.
    The French and Flemish both make jokes about it.

    French joke: Why do Wallonians not eat pretzels? Because they can’t untie the knots.

    Flemish joke: Dear Mr President, Greenland is not for sale but for €1 you can have Wallonia.
  • ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Belgium 1,002 deaths/1m on worldometer, joining Peru and San Marino.

    I’m glad I read that twice. I was appalled at San Marino’s death rate until I realised the figure was per capita.

    Does anyone know why Belgium is doing so badly? Heck, they’re even doing worse than we are and that must take some effort.
    I'm not sure they're doing enough testing - the positivity rate in Liege is 41% - across England its 6-7%, with "hot spots" in the teens.
    what exactly is testing achieving? Hospitalisations and death I get to some extent although deaths are being inflated due to the dying with covid not of it , however testing generally is achieving nothing in controlling the illlness is it?
    The aggregate counts are pretty meaningless, but for an individual knowing if you have got it, or not, is pretty important to you, your family and work colleagues and other people you may not wish to pass it on to..
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,355

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Belgium 1,002 deaths/1m on worldometer, joining Peru and San Marino.

    I’m glad I read that twice. I was appalled at San Marino’s death rate until I realised the figure was per capita.

    Does anyone know why Belgium is doing so badly? Heck, they’re even doing worse than we are and that must take some effort.
    I'm not sure they're doing enough testing - the positivity rate in Liege is 41% - across England its 6-7%, with "hot spots" in the teens.
    what exactly is testing achieving? Hospitalisations and death I get to some extent although deaths are being inflated due to the dying with covid not of it , however testing generally is achieving nothing in controlling the illlness is it?
    If its leading to isolation and contact tracing then it may be helping to slow the spread - especially if its picking up asymptomatic carriers via contacts. Guernsey now has 10 known cases - all in quarantine, all identified via test, track & trace, except for the initial case (which is a worry).

    I understand that the 10 cases were related on one individual who came back from the mainland having tested positive, and then visited her (I think) relations on the Island before the end of the quarantine period.
    Given there will be more cows than people there it is absolutely useless as a measure for countries.
  • Alistair said:

    Huge poll by Selzer in Iowa. Selzer is an Iowa specialist and gives the Donald a 7 point lead, 48 to 41. Their September poll as a 47-47 tie.

    https://eu.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/iowa-poll/2020/10/31/election-2020-iowa-poll-president-donald-trump-leads-joe-biden/6061937002/

    Been reading elsewhere on the interwebs about this poll, it is a very very respected pollster but somethings in the poll are quite surprising. IA1 shows trump winning by 15 but Clinton won by 5 and there is a massive swing with independents from last poll.

    Obviously a poll for those expecting it going for a Trump win to shout about, but the above makes me feel it's an outlier.
    It's generally not good to ignore polls because you can find something weird in the subsamples, because you can nearly always find something weird in the subsamples.

    I think this is a legitimately pro-Trump data point, but the fact that we're talking about a poll in a state Biden doesn't need shows how few pro-Trump data points there are right now.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,425
    Nigelb said:

    MikeL said:

    If the Federal Judge rules that the drive-thru votes in Texas are invalid, where does the case go from there?

    Does his Judgement over-rule the Texas Supreme Court?

    And if it does, can his Judgement be appealed to a Federal Appeals Court?

    And after that would it ultimately go to the US Supreme Court?

    Fifth Circuit federal appeals court. Which is heavily conservative and seats more Trump appointees than those of Obama and Clinton combined (which gives an idea of the extent to which Trump has given priority to packing the courts over the last four years.
    McConnell didn't just block Obama from seating Garland. The whole way through they slowed up judicial appointments.

    I think it's important to remember that Trump is merely the culmination of a long-term project from the GOP. It's one reason why humiliating Trump with a landslide defeat wouldn't be enough. The GOP as a whole, as it currently exists, would need to be routed, and routed again and again.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    Roger said:

    Well done Pulpstar. An interesting header. A grisly state of affairs indeed!

    I was surprised though that Reagan found his way into the goodies column. He was leader when I first realised that US politics stank. Mainly South America where democracy always took a back seat to US interests but the dirty dealing was also domestic. The Oliver North affair for starters and for those who thought Thatcher gave too much love to Pinochet- Reagan didn't even bother with dinner and flowers.

    My in laws think he was the worst president till Trump but Reagan defeated Carter and Mondale with good humour. Unless I've missed something he wasn't heading to the courts a few days before the 84 election to try and rig it for himself. He was just very popular
This discussion has been closed.