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YouGov finds that if given the chance Britain would overwhelmingly vote Trump out – politicalbetting

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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137
    edited October 2020
    Cicero said:

    Andy_JS said:

    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    FPT

    OllyT said:

    MrEd said:

    Mal557 said:

    For me , although there are lots of permutations, who wins the election will come down to two states, FL and PA. If Biden wins FL he's going to win, end of. If he loses, though there may be some ups and downs , I think it will come down to PA.
    I still think the national polls are reflecting more that Biden is doing better in places like TX and GA but I don't expect him to win either or NC. AZ I think he will. I am pretty confident he will win MI and WI but I have real doubts about PA, yes he's about 5% up but the mood music there seems so volatile.
    So I think if it comes down to PA (which I think it will as i suspect Trump will win FL just), we may have to wait a while to know who's won and can expect some shenanigans over postal votes. So much against my personal wishes I really can see Trump falling over the line, despite losing the popular vote by more than 2016 and only just getting past 270 this time.
    Now I need a stiff drink

    This is my exact fear – and my forecast – although I think in that scenario, it ends up 269-269?
    The one prediction I want to make is that I think Biden wins Georgia in almost all circumstances.
    Well if that happens he is in the White House.

    What makes you so confident?

    (P.S. I share others' scepticism about a PA Biden win)

    I think the failed (but slim) Stacey Abrams election attempt will drive further turnout in favour of the Dems.

    Look at Fulton County - Atlanta - 344,876 votes so far. That’s 80% of the 2016 turnout already.
    There is a plausible scenario whereby Biden underperforms in the rustbelt but arrives in the White House via the sunbelt.
    I see Ladbrokes now have Trump favourite to win FL at 8/11
    And as Florida goes, so goes the presidency, generally. But stop bothering people with facts.
    That is simply not true, but then facts never really seem to impinge much on your world view. Biden could easily win whilst losing Florida
    Sorry but this is balls, Florida has picked the winner since 1996, and almost every time before that. After Ohio it is the state that best represents the diversity, both economically and demographically, of the whole US. If your message has failed in Florida, it's really quite unlikely it will work in the other states you need to flip.

    Ohio is going to be safe R, and Florida may not be far behind.
    The point under discussion is that because Florida has generally voted for the winner Biden can't win if he loses Florida. That's absolute bollox.
    Yes, Florida is far from essential for Biden which is just as well because I suspect he will lose it. In the past it has been pivotal but that honour belongs to Pennsylvania now. Difficult for either to win without PA although more so Trump than Biden. Nate S did a good piece on this:

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/is-joe-biden-toast-if-he-loses-pennsylvania/

    My guess is that Biden will win with PA plus one or two from Ariz/Geo/Iowa/NC. That should do it because I just don't see Trump getting close in any of the States leaning more Biden's way than PA - i.e. Nev/Mic/Minn/Wisc etc. They are all looking pretty solid.

    It therefore no longer looks to me a question of whether Biden wins, but by how much. I'm reckoning a modest distance, but it could easily stretch because Ariz/Geo etc are all on a knife edge.

    And then there's always Texas!
    Pretty much agree with that.

    If Trump manages to win the Presidency again despite losing the popular vote the the GOP will have once won the popular vote only once in the last 8 contests. Any reasonable person would conclude that the system is broken. I think the GOP know they will struggle to win at the popular vote and so spend so much energy on surpressing their opponent's votes. The US really is moving into quasi-democracy status.
    The American system is like our system - the national vote tally is a point of interest but isn't really relevant. The winning post in America is 270 electoral votes - the number of votes cast to secure those EC votes doesn't really matter much.

    Its a stupid stupid system. But like the absurdities thrown up by our own First Past the Post you can;t say its broken.
    Justin Trudeau is PM of Canada despite losing the popular vote at the last election.
    In a Parliamentary system, even in a proportional voting system, which Canada is not, the leader of the party that has plurality of votes gets first chance, so JT got a whisker under 40% of the vote, and he therefore got first chance. Sure, the Libs (and NDP) were down in seats (though the Grits were barely down in vote percentage) and the Tories and the Bloc were up, but not by enough to get the Tories into Sussex Drive.

    So in short, as in the UK, the leader of the largest minority wins.

    At least in a proportional system the PM generally has to lead a coalition representing the majority of votes. Now we are stuck with a UK government elected on 42% of the vote, and now supported by a fair deal less than that.
    The Conservatives got most votes last year in Canada, the result in the popular votes was Conservative Party of Canada 34.34%, Liberals 33.12%, NDP 15.98% and BQ 7.63% and Greens 6.55%.

    Trudeau's Liberals won most seats and were able to form a minority government propped up by the NDP, however the Liberals did not get most votes again as they had done in 2015 (incidentally my sister met Trudeau 2 years ago briefly at the D Day commemorations and found him very charismatic in person)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Canadian_federal_election
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    Jesus Christ. The last sentence cannot be right. Can it?

    https://twitter.com/sebastiennel/status/1321535287529558024?s=21
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited October 2020
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Alistair said:
    If he locked down fucking, in France, he’d be toppled in a revolution faster than you can say ‘Marseillaise.’
  • LadyG said:

    Jesus Christ. The last sentence cannot be right. Can it?

    https://twitter.com/sebastiennel/status/1321535287529558024?s=21

    Lockdown mfing harder with a Vengeance....
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    Alistair said:

    https://twitter.com/chucklindell/status/1321517036309270533?s=19

    The Texas Supreme Court has already ruled this voting setup legal so this is a quite phenomenal move by the GOP.

    That is the kind of thing that results in major civil unrest.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137
    edited October 2020
    MaxPB said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    LadyG said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:
    I have no issue with either of them, but it's very hard to escape the conclusion that they (or Harry at least) wants all the attention of being royal with none of the intrusion. Which is something I imagine many people have sympathy with, but is also not what they want from their royals.
    It doesn't help that Harry and Meghan are lecturing us on what awful racists we are, from a $10m mansion in sunny southern California, while we sit in the chilly drizzle listening to their bilge

    They are only going to get more unpopular from here on. It is very sad. I predicted they would become like Edward and Mrs Simpson, quietly loathed by Brits as they partied in their Bahamas mansion, and so it is proving.

    Harry has made a tragic error. She will divorce him in a few years.
    He soooo obviously wants to be drinking beer and playing polo in the English rain with his army chums, and she has so obviously got everything she wanted out of the transaction, that it seems a shame they don't dispense with the few years.
    Hmm not sure. I sense their marriage is MILES happier than William and Kate's. Those two look utterly miserable and faking it the whole time to me.
    Eh? I don't see that at all.

    Harry looks angry and lost, although clearly enthralled by Meghan, and she looks, well, smug.

    William and Kate seem like a typically happy married couple whenever I see them, they were both besotted with each other from first sight and they have three children to prove it.
    I think you're projecting on the H&M front. Seeing what you feel ought to be the case. I was kidding re W&K - just to illustrate how many others are doing what I think you have just done. The projecting. H&M have "rejected us" and it must be the fault of "that woman" who has corrupted "our Harry".
    Constructing fanciful narratives about the royals, and dreaming about the Queen coming to tea, are at the core of what it means to be British.

    I do think that for an Englishman with a rural centre of gravity, year-round exile to a LA mansion is the perfect vision of hell.
    I think there's many Englishmen even in urban areas, such as Epping, who would agree.
    Englishmen in London too. LA is my idea of personal hell having been there more than a few times.
    I liked Malibu and Long Beach and the Getty Museum has great views but not a great fan of much of the rest of it, Hollywood itself is very overrated
  • With the current trajectory of C-19 across Europe I wonder if this football season will make it through the winter un-interrupted?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    LadyG said:

    Jesus Christ. The last sentence cannot be right. Can it?

    https://twitter.com/sebastiennel/status/1321535287529558024?s=21

    A gift for dramatists and pornographers.
  • When you hear the Biden platform wrapped up in thar ad, Bernie Sanders must be thinking Christ alive they have nicked all my policies, while saying I was too left wing for America.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    With the current trajectory of C-19 across Europe I wonder if this football season will make it through the winter un-interrupted?

    An "Apart from that, Mrs Lincoln..." question.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    While Germany seems to be taking action early-ish, France seem to have waited way too long getting to this stage.

    You reckon? The absolute numbers may be different, but the shape of the graphs for many countries look very similar.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited October 2020
    So you've officially got to wear masks in bed?

    *unless you're eating, presumably.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Interesting following conversation down thread, France lockdown includes restrictions on travel between regions.

    Following the Drakeford model.

    Hopefully Macron will get non-essential supermarket shopping right.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,129
    Alistair said:

    LadyG said:

    Perhaps it actually is a ‘fucking lockdown’

    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1321533365242253312?s=21

    That's more like it. If you don't need papers to move about it doesn't count.
    Next year's new hot game, a Covid themed update to Papers Please?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papers,_Please
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    edited October 2020
    IshmaelZ said:

    LadyG said:

    Jesus Christ. The last sentence cannot be right. Can it?

    https://twitter.com/sebastiennel/status/1321535287529558024?s=21

    A gift for dramatists and pornographers.
    The clear implication of that last ordinance (IF it is correct) is that you have to weak a mask in your own family home, if you are in the same room as others. Even family members.

    So in a shared house you can only take your mask off in your own bedroom? What if you share the bedroom? Masked sex and masked sleep?

    It's so bizarrely draconian I cannot believe it is true. A mistranslation?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    The best spin-off from the whole covid thing for me has been learning that the etymology of curfew is couvre-feu.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    https://twitter.com/chucklindell/status/1321517036309270533?s=19

    The Texas Supreme Court has already ruled this voting setup legal so this is a quite phenomenal move by the GOP.

    That is the kind of thing that results in major civil unrest.
    Sounds a bit panicky. Maybe Texas really is going blue!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    LadyG said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:
    I have no issue with either of them, but it's very hard to escape the conclusion that they (or Harry at least) wants all the attention of being royal with none of the intrusion. Which is something I imagine many people have sympathy with, but is also not what they want from their royals.
    It doesn't help that Harry and Meghan are lecturing us on what awful racists we are, from a $10m mansion in sunny southern California, while we sit in the chilly drizzle listening to their bilge

    They are only going to get more unpopular from here on. It is very sad. I predicted they would become like Edward and Mrs Simpson, quietly loathed by Brits as they partied in their Bahamas mansion, and so it is proving.

    Harry has made a tragic error. She will divorce him in a few years.
    He soooo obviously wants to be drinking beer and playing polo in the English rain with his army chums, and she has so obviously got everything she wanted out of the transaction, that it seems a shame they don't dispense with the few years.
    Hmm not sure. I sense their marriage is MILES happier than William and Kate's. Those two look utterly miserable and faking it the whole time to me.
    Eh? I don't see that at all.

    Harry looks angry and lost, although clearly enthralled by Meghan, and she looks, well, smug.

    William and Kate seem like a typically happy married couple whenever I see them, they were both besotted with each other from first sight and they have three children to prove it.
    I think you're projecting on the H&M front. Seeing what you feel ought to be the case. I was kidding re W&K - just to illustrate how many others are doing what I think you have just done. The projecting. H&M have "rejected us" and it must be the fault of "that woman" who has corrupted "our Harry".
    Constructing fanciful narratives about the royals, and dreaming about the Queen coming to tea, are at the core of what it means to be British.

    I do think that for an Englishman with a rural centre of gravity, year-round exile to a LA mansion is the perfect vision of hell.
    Point of order:

    Santa Barbara is actually quite a long way out of Los Angeles - it's a good 100 miles to the North West of the City.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,129
    LadyG said:

    Jesus Christ. The last sentence cannot be right. Can it?

    https://twitter.com/sebastiennel/status/1321535287529558024?s=21

    Sounds like an inflexibly drafted law if so, and unenforcable without stasi levels of informant reach into the home, but I think with a lot of these measures governments are just trying to show seriousness, whether or not they can enforce.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    LadyG said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    LadyG said:

    Jesus Christ. The last sentence cannot be right. Can it?

    https://twitter.com/sebastiennel/status/1321535287529558024?s=21

    A gift for dramatists and pornographers.
    The clear implication of that last ordinance (IF it is correct) is that you have to weak a mask in your own family home, if you are in the same room as others. Even family members.

    So in a shared house you can only take your mask off in your own bedroom? What if you share the bedroom? Masked sex and masked sleep?

    It's so bizarrely draconian I cannot believe it is true. A mistranslation?
    My mate who lives in France says it isn't clear, but "heavily implied". 🤷‍♂️
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    rcs1000 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    LadyG said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:
    I have no issue with either of them, but it's very hard to escape the conclusion that they (or Harry at least) wants all the attention of being royal with none of the intrusion. Which is something I imagine many people have sympathy with, but is also not what they want from their royals.
    It doesn't help that Harry and Meghan are lecturing us on what awful racists we are, from a $10m mansion in sunny southern California, while we sit in the chilly drizzle listening to their bilge

    They are only going to get more unpopular from here on. It is very sad. I predicted they would become like Edward and Mrs Simpson, quietly loathed by Brits as they partied in their Bahamas mansion, and so it is proving.

    Harry has made a tragic error. She will divorce him in a few years.
    He soooo obviously wants to be drinking beer and playing polo in the English rain with his army chums, and she has so obviously got everything she wanted out of the transaction, that it seems a shame they don't dispense with the few years.
    Hmm not sure. I sense their marriage is MILES happier than William and Kate's. Those two look utterly miserable and faking it the whole time to me.
    Eh? I don't see that at all.

    Harry looks angry and lost, although clearly enthralled by Meghan, and she looks, well, smug.

    William and Kate seem like a typically happy married couple whenever I see them, they were both besotted with each other from first sight and they have three children to prove it.
    I think you're projecting on the H&M front. Seeing what you feel ought to be the case. I was kidding re W&K - just to illustrate how many others are doing what I think you have just done. The projecting. H&M have "rejected us" and it must be the fault of "that woman" who has corrupted "our Harry".
    Constructing fanciful narratives about the royals, and dreaming about the Queen coming to tea, are at the core of what it means to be British.

    I do think that for an Englishman with a rural centre of gravity, year-round exile to a LA mansion is the perfect vision of hell.
    Point of order:

    Santa Barbara is actually quite a long way out of Los Angeles - it's a good 100 miles to the North West of the City.
    Isn't 100 miles in the US the same as 10 miles in the UK?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898
    HYUFD said:


    I liked Malibu and Long Beach and the Getty Museum has great views but not a great fan of much of the rest of it, Hollywood itself is very overrated

    I liked Santa Monica and Huntington Beach but I much prefer San Diego - a gorgeous city - and Palm Springs (especially Rancho Mirage).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,129

    When you hear the Biden platform wrapped up in thar ad, Bernie Sanders must be thinking Christ alive they have nicked all my policies, while saying I was too left wing for America.

    Well if that is so and Biden is able to sell it, then that rather suggests Bernie is part of the problem in being unable to reach far enough to even get enough Democrats to back him, let alone America.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205

    Alistair said:

    https://twitter.com/chucklindell/status/1321517036309270533?s=19

    The Texas Supreme Court has already ruled this voting setup legal so this is a quite phenomenal move by the GOP.

    They really are shameless.
    It's facism.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    kle4 said:

    LadyG said:

    Jesus Christ. The last sentence cannot be right. Can it?

    https://twitter.com/sebastiennel/status/1321535287529558024?s=21

    Sounds like an inflexibly drafted law if so, and unenforcable without stasi levels of informant reach into the home, but I think with a lot of these measures governments are just trying to show seriousness, whether or not they can enforce.
    If Boris tried the same in the UK, who would be heavily heavily mocked.

    Yet when the same happens in France, or Germany it's all 'well I can see what they're trying to do, very sensible..'
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Scott_xP said:
    Although on past form Boris will give a week's notice.

    If it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well it were done quickly.
    The time it will take him to write the two letters to himself?
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    LadyG said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    LadyG said:

    Jesus Christ. The last sentence cannot be right. Can it?

    https://twitter.com/sebastiennel/status/1321535287529558024?s=21

    A gift for dramatists and pornographers.
    The clear implication of that last ordinance (IF it is correct) is that you have to weak a mask in your own family home, if you are in the same room as others. Even family members.

    So in a shared house you can only take your mask off in your own bedroom? What if you share the bedroom? Masked sex and masked sleep?

    It's so bizarrely draconian I cannot believe it is true. A mistranslation?
    My mate who lives in France says it isn't clear, but "heavily implied". 🤷‍♂️
    Looks like it is true

    https://twitter.com/PortiaCrowe/status/1321531658529574916?s=20
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    kle4 said:

    LadyG said:

    Jesus Christ. The last sentence cannot be right. Can it?

    https://twitter.com/sebastiennel/status/1321535287529558024?s=21

    Sounds like an inflexibly drafted law if so, and unenforcable without stasi levels of informant reach into the home, but I think with a lot of these measures governments are just trying to show seriousness, whether or not they can enforce.
    If Boris tried the same in the UK, who would be heavily heavily mocked.

    Yet when the same happens in France, or Germany it's all 'well I can see what they're trying to do, very sensible..'
    Yes, the 13% can't wait to praise Europe and shit on their own country.
  • Mal557Mal557 Posts: 662

    Alistair said:

    https://twitter.com/chucklindell/status/1321517036309270533?s=19

    The Texas Supreme Court has already ruled this voting setup legal so this is a quite phenomenal move by the GOP.

    They really are shameless.
    Indeed, and we will see only more of this in the coming days up to and just after the election.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,129

    kle4 said:

    LadyG said:

    Jesus Christ. The last sentence cannot be right. Can it?

    https://twitter.com/sebastiennel/status/1321535287529558024?s=21

    Sounds like an inflexibly drafted law if so, and unenforcable without stasi levels of informant reach into the home, but I think with a lot of these measures governments are just trying to show seriousness, whether or not they can enforce.
    If Boris tried the same in the UK, who would be heavily heavily mocked.

    Yet when the same happens in France, or Germany it's all 'well I can see what they're trying to do, very sensible..'
    I think people tend to exagerrate the effect of the personality of the leader of a nation on its virus response. Not that flaws in decision making, values or priorities will have no effect, certainly, but technical matters or matters of legislative drafting for example seem more tied up with general institutional strength.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    rcs1000 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    LadyG said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:
    I have no issue with either of them, but it's very hard to escape the conclusion that they (or Harry at least) wants all the attention of being royal with none of the intrusion. Which is something I imagine many people have sympathy with, but is also not what they want from their royals.
    It doesn't help that Harry and Meghan are lecturing us on what awful racists we are, from a $10m mansion in sunny southern California, while we sit in the chilly drizzle listening to their bilge

    They are only going to get more unpopular from here on. It is very sad. I predicted they would become like Edward and Mrs Simpson, quietly loathed by Brits as they partied in their Bahamas mansion, and so it is proving.

    Harry has made a tragic error. She will divorce him in a few years.
    He soooo obviously wants to be drinking beer and playing polo in the English rain with his army chums, and she has so obviously got everything she wanted out of the transaction, that it seems a shame they don't dispense with the few years.
    Hmm not sure. I sense their marriage is MILES happier than William and Kate's. Those two look utterly miserable and faking it the whole time to me.
    Eh? I don't see that at all.

    Harry looks angry and lost, although clearly enthralled by Meghan, and she looks, well, smug.

    William and Kate seem like a typically happy married couple whenever I see them, they were both besotted with each other from first sight and they have three children to prove it.
    I think you're projecting on the H&M front. Seeing what you feel ought to be the case. I was kidding re W&K - just to illustrate how many others are doing what I think you have just done. The projecting. H&M have "rejected us" and it must be the fault of "that woman" who has corrupted "our Harry".
    Constructing fanciful narratives about the royals, and dreaming about the Queen coming to tea, are at the core of what it means to be British.

    I do think that for an Englishman with a rural centre of gravity, year-round exile to a LA mansion is the perfect vision of hell.
    Point of order:

    Santa Barbara is actually quite a long way out of Los Angeles - it's a good 100 miles to the North West of the City.
    I stand corrected. "year round exile to a not even LA mansion."
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    What's the betting this French lockdown lasts til after Christmas? Rather than just the one month?

    The French economy is going to crater. There will be riots.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Perhaps Macron is putting in a stint for Trump?

    "This is what a mask mandate looks like..."
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,129
    LadyG said:

    What's the betting this French lockdown lasts til after Christmas? Rather than just the one month?

    The French economy is going to crater. There will be riots.

    Riots in France? And to think people thought Covid would change society.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Rotherham vs Sheffield Wednesday

    Drone stopped play after 4mins
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    I wonder when Boris is going follow Keir's lead and put all into lockdown.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,129

    I wonder when Boris is going follow Keir's lead and put all into lockdown.

    2-3 weeks.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    IshmaelZ said:

    rcs1000 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    LadyG said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:
    I have no issue with either of them, but it's very hard to escape the conclusion that they (or Harry at least) wants all the attention of being royal with none of the intrusion. Which is something I imagine many people have sympathy with, but is also not what they want from their royals.
    It doesn't help that Harry and Meghan are lecturing us on what awful racists we are, from a $10m mansion in sunny southern California, while we sit in the chilly drizzle listening to their bilge

    They are only going to get more unpopular from here on. It is very sad. I predicted they would become like Edward and Mrs Simpson, quietly loathed by Brits as they partied in their Bahamas mansion, and so it is proving.

    Harry has made a tragic error. She will divorce him in a few years.
    He soooo obviously wants to be drinking beer and playing polo in the English rain with his army chums, and she has so obviously got everything she wanted out of the transaction, that it seems a shame they don't dispense with the few years.
    Hmm not sure. I sense their marriage is MILES happier than William and Kate's. Those two look utterly miserable and faking it the whole time to me.
    Eh? I don't see that at all.

    Harry looks angry and lost, although clearly enthralled by Meghan, and she looks, well, smug.

    William and Kate seem like a typically happy married couple whenever I see them, they were both besotted with each other from first sight and they have three children to prove it.
    I think you're projecting on the H&M front. Seeing what you feel ought to be the case. I was kidding re W&K - just to illustrate how many others are doing what I think you have just done. The projecting. H&M have "rejected us" and it must be the fault of "that woman" who has corrupted "our Harry".
    Constructing fanciful narratives about the royals, and dreaming about the Queen coming to tea, are at the core of what it means to be British.

    I do think that for an Englishman with a rural centre of gravity, year-round exile to a LA mansion is the perfect vision of hell.
    Point of order:

    Santa Barbara is actually quite a long way out of Los Angeles - it's a good 100 miles to the North West of the City.
    I stand corrected. "year round exile to a not even LA mansion."
    Santa Barbara is probably the nicest place to live in California, maybe the USA. For a start, it has the best climate in the country.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/petertaylor/2016/10/31/winteriscoming-guess-where-the-weather-is-75-degrees-and-sunny-all-year-long/

    If I had to be an exiled royal in the USA, I'd choose Santa Barbara too
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331

    Rotherham vs Sheffield Wednesday

    Drone stopped play after 4mins

    Was Mark Lawrenson on the commentary team?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    Rotherham vs Sheffield Wednesday

    Drone stopped play after 4mins

    30 Secs after restart Rotherham take the lead
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    kle4 said:

    LadyG said:

    What's the betting this French lockdown lasts til after Christmas? Rather than just the one month?

    The French economy is going to crater. There will be riots.

    Riots in France? And to think people thought Covid would change society.
    lol. Point taken, but I mean PROPER riots. Gilets Jaune to the max.
  • Rotherham vs Sheffield Wednesday

    Drone stopped play after 4mins

    Flown by a bored Sean Bean
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    LadyG said:

    What's the betting this French lockdown lasts til after Christmas? Rather than just the one month?

    The French economy is going to crater. There will be riots.

    Do you have to wear your mask in your lovers home?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    Re the thread header - did they really need to do a poll to discover that?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Incidentally the whole "the level of people saying they have voted in the he sample means turnout will be greater than the number of registered voters" problem that I highlighted in that wisconsin poll is shared by lots of other state polls.

    There is one scenario where it is bad for Biden - the voters the poll is missing are Trump voters and in fact Trump is doing way better in early voting than the polls imply. That scenario is reallllllly bad for Biden.

    Every other scenario the error is of huge benefit to Biden if you reweight the poll to have a more realistic proportion of early voters.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    https://twitter.com/chucklindell/status/1321517036309270533?s=19

    The Texas Supreme Court has already ruled this voting setup legal so this is a quite phenomenal move by the GOP.

    They really are shameless.
    It's facism.
    USA is a banana republic
  • Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    https://twitter.com/chucklindell/status/1321517036309270533?s=19

    The Texas Supreme Court has already ruled this voting setup legal so this is a quite phenomenal move by the GOP.

    They really are shameless.
    It's facism.
    USA is a banana republic
    It's why I baled out of the spreads.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    LadyG said:

    Alistair said:
    lol. Who are you angry at? Me, Macron, the tweeter, France or the virus?
    This place is a lockdown One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest; most of the posters are squabbling over whether Nurse Ratched is too strict or not strict enough, whilst talking down any attempt by McMurphy to escape
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    LadyG said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    rcs1000 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    LadyG said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:
    I have no issue with either of them, but it's very hard to escape the conclusion that they (or Harry at least) wants all the attention of being royal with none of the intrusion. Which is something I imagine many people have sympathy with, but is also not what they want from their royals.
    It doesn't help that Harry and Meghan are lecturing us on what awful racists we are, from a $10m mansion in sunny southern California, while we sit in the chilly drizzle listening to their bilge

    They are only going to get more unpopular from here on. It is very sad. I predicted they would become like Edward and Mrs Simpson, quietly loathed by Brits as they partied in their Bahamas mansion, and so it is proving.

    Harry has made a tragic error. She will divorce him in a few years.
    He soooo obviously wants to be drinking beer and playing polo in the English rain with his army chums, and she has so obviously got everything she wanted out of the transaction, that it seems a shame they don't dispense with the few years.
    Hmm not sure. I sense their marriage is MILES happier than William and Kate's. Those two look utterly miserable and faking it the whole time to me.
    Eh? I don't see that at all.

    Harry looks angry and lost, although clearly enthralled by Meghan, and she looks, well, smug.

    William and Kate seem like a typically happy married couple whenever I see them, they were both besotted with each other from first sight and they have three children to prove it.
    I think you're projecting on the H&M front. Seeing what you feel ought to be the case. I was kidding re W&K - just to illustrate how many others are doing what I think you have just done. The projecting. H&M have "rejected us" and it must be the fault of "that woman" who has corrupted "our Harry".
    Constructing fanciful narratives about the royals, and dreaming about the Queen coming to tea, are at the core of what it means to be British.

    I do think that for an Englishman with a rural centre of gravity, year-round exile to a LA mansion is the perfect vision of hell.
    Point of order:

    Santa Barbara is actually quite a long way out of Los Angeles - it's a good 100 miles to the North West of the City.
    I stand corrected. "year round exile to a not even LA mansion."
    Santa Barbara is probably the nicest place to live in California, maybe the USA. For a start, it has the best climate in the country.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/petertaylor/2016/10/31/winteriscoming-guess-where-the-weather-is-75-degrees-and-sunny-all-year-long/

    If I had to be an exiled royal in the USA, I'd choose Santa Barbara too
    But the trick is not to be an exiled royal. The family has a longstanding masochistic affinity for the very coldest and wettest parts of the UK (you must know Princetown), and if that is your cup of tea then 75F all year round is hell.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    https://twitter.com/chucklindell/status/1321517036309270533?s=19

    The Texas Supreme Court has already ruled this voting setup legal so this is a quite phenomenal move by the GOP.

    They really are shameless.
    It's facism.
    USA is a banana republic
    More of an apple republic perhaps.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    To appeal to black voters - End systemic racism... decriminalise Marijuana!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,594
    LadyG said:
    Difficult to believe Johnson will make people wear masks inside their own home.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,700
    Alistair said:

    Incidentally the whole "the level of people saying they have voted in the he sample means turnout will be greater than the number of registered voters" problem that I highlighted in that wisconsin poll is shared by lots of other state polls.

    There is one scenario where it is bad for Biden - the voters the poll is missing are Trump voters and in fact Trump is doing way better in early voting than the polls imply. That scenario is reallllllly bad for Biden.

    Every other scenario the error is of huge benefit to Biden if you reweight the poll to have a more realistic proportion of early voters.

    Whatever the explanation, it's a pretty strong indication there is a systematic error somewhere in the sampling.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited October 2020
    LadyG said:
    "Huge pressure" from who?

    I mean, on the back of "successful" Germany maybe, but "country who have arguably made more of a pigs ear of it than we have" France?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,798

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    LadyG said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:
    I have no issue with either of them, but it's very hard to escape the conclusion that they (or Harry at least) wants all the attention of being royal with none of the intrusion. Which is something I imagine many people have sympathy with, but is also not what they want from their royals.
    It doesn't help that Harry and Meghan are lecturing us on what awful racists we are, from a $10m mansion in sunny southern California, while we sit in the chilly drizzle listening to their bilge

    They are only going to get more unpopular from here on. It is very sad. I predicted they would become like Edward and Mrs Simpson, quietly loathed by Brits as they partied in their Bahamas mansion, and so it is proving.

    Harry has made a tragic error. She will divorce him in a few years.
    He soooo obviously wants to be drinking beer and playing polo in the English rain with his army chums, and she has so obviously got everything she wanted out of the transaction, that it seems a shame they don't dispense with the few years.
    Hmm not sure. I sense their marriage is MILES happier than William and Kate's. Those two look utterly miserable and faking it the whole time to me.
    Eh? I don't see that at all.

    Harry looks angry and lost, although clearly enthralled by Meghan, and she looks, well, smug.

    William and Kate seem like a typically happy married couple whenever I see them, they were both besotted with each other from first sight and they have three children to prove it.
    I think you're projecting on the H&M front. Seeing what you feel ought to be the case. I was kidding re W&K - just to illustrate how many others are doing what I think you have just done. The projecting. H&M have "rejected us" and it must be the fault of "that woman" who has corrupted "our Harry".
    I'm not projecting, unless you think to disagree with you is projecting? Fair enough on W&K.

    I think there's clear evidence that:

    (a) Meghan is very ambitious and found the Royal Family and its rules stifling - this seems typical of Americans who have Disney-like fantasies about what British royalty is actually like - duty, not being waited on hand & foot
    (b) There are too many stories from close family and friends (and ex-friends) of Meghan to ignore, including those that worked for and with her that point to her being a bit of a diva and rather self-centred
    (c) H&M both want to have their cake and eat it with the media. This is for slightly different reasons. For her, I think she is ambitious and wants herself presented in a certain way - note how she regularly invites them in, and leaks to those in favour, including cooperating on books, but sues those she doesn't like. Harry has a more visceral anger against the media (due to the tragedy of his mother) and basically hates them, but also realises he needs them to do good too - he is more interested in charity and sports than politics.
    (d) Harry is getting love and understanding from Meghan, who he's clearly besotted with, that he feels he didn't ever get from his own family. I have no reason to believe this isn't genuine - I note he looks at her quite a bit more than she looks at him, but not more than that.
    (e) Harry and William are estranged from one another and no longer close, and this is a tragedy for both. He also misses his mates in the UK and army life. I think he still has deep emotional issues he needs to work through.
    (f) Both Harry and Meghan were unhappy with their royal status for different reasons. Meghan because it constrained her and didn't allow her to do what she wanted. Harry because he still harbours some resentment of royal life and the media circus around it, and to some extent he was unhappy because she was too. They both largely assume any criticism *must* be racism, which then has a tendency to politicise opinion on them.
    (g) HMQ bent over backwards to try and find a solution for both Harry and Meghan, who weren't and aren't directly in line to the throne, and could have had a quiet life but still with a distinct role like Sophie/Edward, Kents etc. This wasn't enough for either (and I suspect Meghan a tad more) because they wanted to have their cake and eat it.

    I hope there is a happy ending, but it will depend on them both developing a level of self-awareness and, quite frankly, I think Harry needs help.
    You have thought about this a surprising amount.
    They seem like a nice couple and I wish them all the best. It's sad that they were treated so shabbily here and I'm not surprised they decided to leave.
    I'm not sure I would read too much into the who looks at who more thing (and how on earth did you even notice?) I'm sure I look at my wife more than she looks at me, she's just nicer to look at than I am and the same is clearly true with H&M. We've been together for 26 years, BTW...
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:
    Difficult to believe Johnson will make people wear masks inside their own home.
    Unenforceable.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:
    Difficult to believe Johnson will make people wear masks inside their own home.
    No, he won't do that. But, that aside, it is highly likely a lockdown like this is coming our way, and it will last for months.

    A bleak bleak picture.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    I had a pint with a mate on Sunday. He tested positive today.

    He has no symptoms though, and his wife and daughters tested negative
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    Sturgeon' "let's reopen the pubs" proposal looks increasingly out of kilter (apols)
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    isam said:

    I had a pint with a mate on Sunday. He tested positive today.

    He has no symptoms though, and his wife and daughters tested negative

    Out of curiosity, in what context was he tested - was it for work?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    isam said:

    To appeal to black voters - End systemic racism... decriminalise Marijuana!
    The first bit of that is rather good, but I'd find the marijuana stuff very patronising.

    He's clearly trying to boost turnout, which I can understand.
  • kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    LadyG said:

    Jesus Christ. The last sentence cannot be right. Can it?

    https://twitter.com/sebastiennel/status/1321535287529558024?s=21

    Sounds like an inflexibly drafted law if so, and unenforcable without stasi levels of informant reach into the home, but I think with a lot of these measures governments are just trying to show seriousness, whether or not they can enforce.
    If Boris tried the same in the UK, who would be heavily heavily mocked.

    Yet when the same happens in France, or Germany it's all 'well I can see what they're trying to do, very sensible..'
    I think people tend to exagerrate the effect of the personality of the leader of a nation on its virus response. Not that flaws in decision making, values or priorities will have no effect, certainly, but technical matters or matters of legislative drafting for example seem more tied up with general institutional strength.
    I think the virus response has been best where people trust their governments.
  • LadyG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:
    Difficult to believe Johnson will make people wear masks inside their own home.
    No, he won't do that. But, that aside, it is highly likely a lockdown like this is coming our way, and it will last for months.

    A bleak bleak picture.
    Sadly inevitable, the other thing that is inevitable is a spike after Christmas and the New Year as people decide to visit family.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    MaxPB said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    LadyG said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:
    I have no issue with either of them, but it's very hard to escape the conclusion that they (or Harry at least) wants all the attention of being royal with none of the intrusion. Which is something I imagine many people have sympathy with, but is also not what they want from their royals.
    It doesn't help that Harry and Meghan are lecturing us on what awful racists we are, from a $10m mansion in sunny southern California, while we sit in the chilly drizzle listening to their bilge

    They are only going to get more unpopular from here on. It is very sad. I predicted they would become like Edward and Mrs Simpson, quietly loathed by Brits as they partied in their Bahamas mansion, and so it is proving.

    Harry has made a tragic error. She will divorce him in a few years.
    He soooo obviously wants to be drinking beer and playing polo in the English rain with his army chums, and she has so obviously got everything she wanted out of the transaction, that it seems a shame they don't dispense with the few years.
    Hmm not sure. I sense their marriage is MILES happier than William and Kate's. Those two look utterly miserable and faking it the whole time to me.
    Eh? I don't see that at all.

    Harry looks angry and lost, although clearly enthralled by Meghan, and she looks, well, smug.

    William and Kate seem like a typically happy married couple whenever I see them, they were both besotted with each other from first sight and they have three children to prove it.
    I think you're projecting on the H&M front. Seeing what you feel ought to be the case. I was kidding re W&K - just to illustrate how many others are doing what I think you have just done. The projecting. H&M have "rejected us" and it must be the fault of "that woman" who has corrupted "our Harry".
    Constructing fanciful narratives about the royals, and dreaming about the Queen coming to tea, are at the core of what it means to be British.

    I do think that for an Englishman with a rural centre of gravity, year-round exile to a LA mansion is the perfect vision of hell.
    I think there's many Englishmen even in urban areas, such as Epping, who would agree.
    Englishmen in London too. LA is my idea of personal hell having been there more than a few times.
    When I used to have to go to E3, I used to hate it too.

    Now I live here, I love the Santa Monica - Pacific Palisades - Brentwood - Westwood area. I love the closeness of the Ocean. I love the fact that I can go skiing in the morning, and be back at work at 1pm. I love the fact that we can eat outside all year round.

    Large parts of Los Angeles are fantastic. Other parts, like any other city in the world, are not so great.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    LadyG said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:
    I have no issue with either of them, but it's very hard to escape the conclusion that they (or Harry at least) wants all the attention of being royal with none of the intrusion. Which is something I imagine many people have sympathy with, but is also not what they want from their royals.
    It doesn't help that Harry and Meghan are lecturing us on what awful racists we are, from a $10m mansion in sunny southern California, while we sit in the chilly drizzle listening to their bilge

    They are only going to get more unpopular from here on. It is very sad. I predicted they would become like Edward and Mrs Simpson, quietly loathed by Brits as they partied in their Bahamas mansion, and so it is proving.

    Harry has made a tragic error. She will divorce him in a few years.
    He soooo obviously wants to be drinking beer and playing polo in the English rain with his army chums, and she has so obviously got everything she wanted out of the transaction, that it seems a shame they don't dispense with the few years.
    Hmm not sure. I sense their marriage is MILES happier than William and Kate's. Those two look utterly miserable and faking it the whole time to me.
    Eh? I don't see that at all.

    Harry looks angry and lost, although clearly enthralled by Meghan, and she looks, well, smug.

    William and Kate seem like a typically happy married couple whenever I see them, they were both besotted with each other from first sight and they have three children to prove it.
    I think you're projecting on the H&M front. Seeing what you feel ought to be the case. I was kidding re W&K - just to illustrate how many others are doing what I think you have just done. The projecting. H&M have "rejected us" and it must be the fault of "that woman" who has corrupted "our Harry".
    I'm not projecting, unless you think to disagree with you is projecting? Fair enough on W&K.

    I think there's clear evidence that:

    (a) Meghan is very ambitious and found the Royal Family and its rules stifling - this seems typical of Americans who have Disney-like fantasies about what British royalty is actually like - duty, not being waited on hand & foot
    (b) There are too many stories from close family and friends (and ex-friends) of Meghan to ignore, including those that worked for and with her that point to her being a bit of a diva and rather self-centred
    (c) H&M both want to have their cake and eat it with the media. This is for slightly different reasons. For her, I think she is ambitious and wants herself presented in a certain way - note how she regularly invites them in, and leaks to those in favour, including cooperating on books, but sues those she doesn't like. Harry has a more visceral anger against the media (due to the tragedy of his mother) and basically hates them, but also realises he needs them to do good too - he is more interested in charity and sports than politics.
    (d) Harry is getting love and understanding from Meghan, who he's clearly besotted with, that he feels he didn't ever get from his own family. I have no reason to believe this isn't genuine - I note he looks at her quite a bit more than she looks at him, but not more than that.
    (e) Harry and William are estranged from one another and no longer close, and this is a tragedy for both. He also misses his mates in the UK and army life. I think he still has deep emotional issues he needs to work through.
    (f) Both Harry and Meghan were unhappy with their royal status for different reasons. Meghan because it constrained her and didn't allow her to do what she wanted. Harry because he still harbours some resentment of royal life and the media circus around it, and to some extent he was unhappy because she was too. They both largely assume any criticism *must* be racism, which then has a tendency to politicise opinion on them.
    (g) HMQ bent over backwards to try and find a solution for both Harry and Meghan, who weren't and aren't directly in line to the throne, and could have had a quiet life but still with a distinct role like Sophie/Edward, Kents etc. This wasn't enough for either (and I suspect Meghan a tad more) because they wanted to have their cake and eat it.

    I hope there is a happy ending, but it will depend on them both developing a level of self-awareness and, quite frankly, I think Harry needs help.
    You have thought about this a surprising amount.
    They seem like a nice couple and I wish them all the best. It's sad that they were treated so shabbily here and I'm not surprised they decided to leave.
    I'm not sure I would read too much into the who looks at who more thing (and how on earth did you even notice?) I'm sure I look at my wife more than she looks at me, she's just nicer to look at than I am and the same is clearly true with H&M. We've been together for 26 years, BTW...
    Hmm. So first I was criticised for projecting, and now for thinking about it too much.

    It's just my analysis of the situation. I think the idea they were treated shabbily here is balderdash.

    I think some people simply believe what they want to believe about it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,129
    alex_ said:

    LadyG said:
    "Huge pressure" from who?

    I mean, on the back of "successful" Germany maybe, but "country who have arguably made more of a pigs ear of it than we have" France?
    The pressure will come as, once again, we appear to be doing pretty badly, and so the natural reaction will be to try harsher and harsher measures to get on top of things. People argue the details, but the public still seem broadly in support of being very harsh, so I expect opposition, devolved nations and media to converge.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    tlg86 said:

    isam said:

    I had a pint with a mate on Sunday. He tested positive today.

    He has no symptoms though, and his wife and daughters tested negative

    Out of curiosity, in what context was he tested - was it for work?
    Yeah him and his wife both got tested for work
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    Roy_G_Biv said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    LadyG said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:
    I have no issue with either of them, but it's very hard to escape the conclusion that they (or Harry at least) wants all the attention of being royal with none of the intrusion. Which is something I imagine many people have sympathy with, but is also not what they want from their royals.
    It doesn't help that Harry and Meghan are lecturing us on what awful racists we are, from a $10m mansion in sunny southern California, while we sit in the chilly drizzle listening to their bilge

    They are only going to get more unpopular from here on. It is very sad. I predicted they would become like Edward and Mrs Simpson, quietly loathed by Brits as they partied in their Bahamas mansion, and so it is proving.

    Harry has made a tragic error. She will divorce him in a few years.
    He soooo obviously wants to be drinking beer and playing polo in the English rain with his army chums, and she has so obviously got everything she wanted out of the transaction, that it seems a shame they don't dispense with the few years.
    Hmm not sure. I sense their marriage is MILES happier than William and Kate's. Those two look utterly miserable and faking it the whole time to me.
    Eh? I don't see that at all.

    Harry looks angry and lost, although clearly enthralled by Meghan, and she looks, well, smug.

    William and Kate seem like a typically happy married couple whenever I see them, they were both besotted with each other from first sight and they have three children to prove it.
    I think you're projecting on the H&M front. Seeing what you feel ought to be the case. I was kidding re W&K - just to illustrate how many others are doing what I think you have just done. The projecting. H&M have "rejected us" and it must be the fault of "that woman" who has corrupted "our Harry".
    I'm not projecting, unless you think to disagree with you is projecting? Fair enough on W&K.

    I think there's clear evidence that:

    (a) Meghan is very ambitious and found the Royal Family and its rules stifling - this seems typical of Americans who have Disney-like fantasies about what British royalty is actually like - duty, not being waited on hand & foot
    (b) There are too many stories from close family and friends (and ex-friends) of Meghan to ignore, including those that worked for and with her that point to her being a bit of a diva and rather self-centred
    (c) H&M both want to have their cake and eat it with the media. This is for slightly different reasons. For her, I think she is ambitious and wants herself presented in a certain way - note how she regularly invites them in, and leaks to those in favour, including cooperating on books, but sues those she doesn't like. Harry has a more visceral anger against the media (due to the tragedy of his mother) and basically hates them, but also realises he needs them to do good too - he is more interested in charity and sports than politics.
    (d) Harry is getting love and understanding from Meghan, who he's clearly besotted with, that he feels he didn't ever get from his own family. I have no reason to believe this isn't genuine - I note he looks at her quite a bit more than she looks at him, but not more than that.
    (e) Harry and William are estranged from one another and no longer close, and this is a tragedy for both. He also misses his mates in the UK and army life. I think he still has deep emotional issues he needs to work through.
    (f) Both Harry and Meghan were unhappy with their royal status for different reasons. Meghan because it constrained her and didn't allow her to do what she wanted. Harry because he still harbours some resentment of royal life and the media circus around it, and to some extent he was unhappy because she was too. They both largely assume any criticism *must* be racism, which then has a tendency to politicise opinion on them.
    (g) HMQ bent over backwards to try and find a solution for both Harry and Meghan, who weren't and aren't directly in line to the throne, and could have had a quiet life but still with a distinct role like Sophie/Edward, Kents etc. This wasn't enough for either (and I suspect Meghan a tad more) because they wanted to have their cake and eat it.

    I hope there is a happy ending, but it will depend on them both developing a level of self-awareness and, quite frankly, I think Harry needs help.
    🤣
    If you disagree I'm sure we'd all be interested in your take?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    VARchester United - Greenwood was offside there surely?
  • alex_ said:

    LadyG said:
    "Huge pressure" from who?

    I mean, on the back of "successful" Germany maybe, but "country who have arguably made more of a pigs ear of it than we have" France?
    Now Mutti Angela has done the unpleasant but (let's be blunt) necessary thing, everyone else in Europe has permission to do the same. Macron has seized to opportunity; can Johnson?
  • isam said:

    VARchester United - Greenwood was offside there surely?

    Yup, he was more offside than Mane was in the Merseyside derby.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    kle4 said:

    alex_ said:

    LadyG said:
    "Huge pressure" from who?

    I mean, on the back of "successful" Germany maybe, but "country who have arguably made more of a pigs ear of it than we have" France?
    The pressure will come as, once again, we appear to be doing pretty badly, and so the natural reaction will be to try harsher and harsher measures to get on top of things. People argue the details, but the public still seem broadly in support of being very harsh, so I expect opposition, devolved nations and media to converge.
    Well that's a slightly different argument, to why specifically France doing it should lead to "huge pressure". Or is it just that other large countries doing it give the Government here the opportunity to do it without it looking like a "failure"?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    VARchester United - Greenwood was offside there surely?

    Yup, he was more offside than Mane was in the Merseyside derby.
    Very strange

    Rascal jacket on RB's manager
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,129
    alex_ said:

    kle4 said:

    alex_ said:

    LadyG said:
    "Huge pressure" from who?

    I mean, on the back of "successful" Germany maybe, but "country who have arguably made more of a pigs ear of it than we have" France?
    The pressure will come as, once again, we appear to be doing pretty badly, and so the natural reaction will be to try harsher and harsher measures to get on top of things. People argue the details, but the public still seem broadly in support of being very harsh, so I expect opposition, devolved nations and media to converge.
    Well that's a slightly different argument, to why specifically France doing it should lead to "huge pressure". Or is it just that other large countries doing it give the Government here the opportunity to do it without it looking like a "failure"?
    People and governments herd.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    Well, well, well ...

    The Welsh LibDem leader -- Jane Dodds -- has been caught out by Guido, who (whatever his faults) has a certain low cunning for rodent-catching.

    (Dodo was the patron saint of pb,com when she won the B&R by-election in 2020, with many pb-LibDems
    campaigning for her. She lost the seat in the General).

    Dodo has been caught out broadcasting a tribute to Kirsty Williams (the only surviving LibDem AM) who apparently is not standing in 2021. The broadcast was from "here in Brecon & Radnorshire"

    Except she was not in B&R, but in Richmond, SW London. A spokesman for the Welsh LibDems sheepishly admitted Jane has been living in London with her husband who works in London.

    The Welsh LibDems ... they just never learn.

    It may have escaped the Welsh LibDems notice, but a very basic point in helping to recover the lost ground in Wales is having a leader who actually lives in Wales.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    kinabalu said:

    alex_ said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    LadyG said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:
    I have no issue with either of them, but it's very hard to escape the conclusion that they (or Harry at least) wants all the attention of being royal with none of the intrusion. Which is something I imagine many people have sympathy with, but is also not what they want from their royals.
    It doesn't help that Harry and Meghan are lecturing us on what awful racists we are, from a $10m mansion in sunny southern California, while we sit in the chilly drizzle listening to their bilge

    They are only going to get more unpopular from here on. It is very sad. I predicted they would become like Edward and Mrs Simpson, quietly loathed by Brits as they partied in their Bahamas mansion, and so it is proving.

    Harry has made a tragic error. She will divorce him in a few years.
    He soooo obviously wants to be drinking beer and playing polo in the English rain with his army chums, and she has so obviously got everything she wanted out of the transaction, that it seems a shame they don't dispense with the few years.
    Hmm not sure. I sense their marriage is MILES happier than William and Kate's. Those two look utterly miserable and faking it the whole time to me.
    How have you got close enough at the appropriate moments to determine whether they’re ummm, faking it?
    Ooo what a thought! No, sadly not. Just going by what I see on the telly.

    Think they might be staying together for the kids. Like Bryan Ferry and Jerry Hall.
    Is there a hidden joke in there?
    Hidden no longer - :smile:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9EbR0ckb40
    Bryan, that ‘tache. What were you thinking of?
    I know! Must admit I'd have gone for Jagger too if I'd been Jerry.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    alex_ said:

    LadyG said:
    "Huge pressure" from who?

    I mean, on the back of "successful" Germany maybe, but "country who have arguably made more of a pigs ear of it than we have" France?
    Now Mutti Angela has done the unpleasant but (let's be blunt) necessary thing, everyone else in Europe has permission to do the same. Macron has seized to opportunity; can Johnson?
    I just think it's all pointless if you don't shut schools. What's the point in an economically catastrophic lockdown, when you are sending children off to superspreader events 5 days a week?
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Andy_JS said:

    On the current numbers, Europe is utterly f**ked with this virus. (and that includes us).

    Yet people are still insisting that we, with infection rates below other areas still getting it worse, have some form of immunity that will make it all go away completely any day now.
    Sorry I thought Europe had it sorted. Europe locked down longest. Europe locked down hardest. Europe locked down smartest. Europe locked down maskiest.

    And yet. Here we are

    This time around though, the markets are much more sensitive to lockdown restrictions, because they have seen how lockdowns destroy economies. They have seen how two week lockdowns turn into six months ones over night. And they know, that even in the richer states, Europe has no effing money left.

    By Friday, Europe could be looking at a full blown economic depression, lasting years, with all the accompanying woes. Enormous unemployment. serial unrest. Severe suppression of liberty. Disintegrating social fabric.

    The cure is killing the patient.

    The only type of lockdown that works is the sort they had in South Korea, China, etc, and that level of authoritarianism and compliance isn't possible in western societies.
    The key isn't lockdown. The key is track and trace that works so that chains of infection are broken quickly. We simply cannot tolerate the level of ineptitude shown in that respect any more. It is no longer funny.
    It seems that we cannot manage it. That is the depressing conclusion I hate to draw but am on the verge of.
    No European, North American or Latin American country has "managed" this. Yet many Asian countries have. That is the true mystery.
    The outlier of big developed "Western Style" countries that are plugged into the world transit system is Australia. They have most of the disadvantages of the European countries in regards to importing Covid (in fact much closer and better direct connections with ground zero) and several very large dense cities.
    Australia unplugged itself from the world transit system in March. Residents are banned from going abroad, foreigners from visiting and the return to Australia of Australian nationals is limited by mandatory quarantine on arrival capacity. There are tens of thousands of Australians who want to go home, but can't.
    Australia also closed the borders INTERNALLY: you were unable to get in and out of Western Australia from the Northern Territory, Tasmania was virtually sealed off, no one could cross from Vic to NSW etc

    This must have been very helpful and explains, in part, their success

    https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-australia/australia-closes-internal-borders-to-capitalise-on-fall-in-new-coronavirus-cases-idUKKBN21K3JZ

    But this is only possible in a massive country with widely dispersed populations and relatively few internal border crossings.
    I think one of the mistakes the UK government made, which credit to Mr Tesco's can't sell oven gloves in Wales did, was not to restrict people unnecessary movements to within a few miles of home, especially as we released the lockdown. We really didn't need 100,000s of people piling down to Brighton and Bournemouth.
    Maybe, but I've just been down in Cornwall where they were all terrified that the huge influx of holidaymakers after lockdown (and the surge was massive and prolonged, because most British tourists could or would not go abroad) would inevitably lead to a sharp rise in Covid cases in Cornwall.

    Yet it hasn't happened at all. Cornwall is still almost Covid-free.

    This virus is a bloody mysterious little bastard. It never behaves QUITE how you expect
    It is interesting, because we know that the European getaway to sunny climbs has caused spread both in that country and across Europe. Maybe as the Cornish are always wary of the Grockles, they already have a built in mechanism to avoid the plague bringers.
    It spreads eagerly when people mix indoors, but not outdoors. Most of the patterns we are seeing can be so explained. Where there has been spread arising from summer travel, it’s been to spots with lively nightlife.
    Yes I think that's true. I also wonder about spending 2-3hrs in an airport with 1000s of other people, compared to going to Cornwall in your car.
    For sure, air travel is a risk, likely both in airports and the inside the planes. Wasn’t there a study released just this week that showed as much?

    I have thought this must be true since the spring, since the chances of holidaymakers to Italy and Spain both chancing upon and having prolonged indoor contact with the then handfuls (proportionately) of positive cases in those countries seemed way to small to explain the number of people flying back who contracted the virus.

    Also note how Europe almost closed down air travel, and recovered from the first wave, whilst the US didn’t, and didn’t.
    The decision by all nations to have a European summer holiday season was absolutely mental. All those months of lockdown and border closures and then you just encourage everybody from across Europe to travel in small metal tubes to intermingle with 1000s of others from every corner of Europe.
    It was a recless failiure of governments but also a failure of people who displayed a selfishness which makes me ashamed every time I think of it.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    From what I read, it seems Trump has no chance of winning. He was a much bigger price on the morning of the 2016 Election though wasn't he?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    Bear in mind, too, that men have cast less than 41% of early ballots in North Carolina.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    Alistair said:

    https://twitter.com/chucklindell/status/1321517036309270533?s=19

    The Texas Supreme Court has already ruled this voting setup legal so this is a quite phenomenal move by the GOP.

    Not keen on this voting business, are they, the Republican Party?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    https://twitter.com/chucklindell/status/1321517036309270533?s=19

    The Texas Supreme Court has already ruled this voting setup legal so this is a quite phenomenal move by the GOP.

    That is the kind of thing that results in major civil unrest.
    It is the kind of thing that suggests that they are losing (and they know it).

    As does this article:
    https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/523199-new-voters-surge-to-the-polls
    Not sure where they source the stats, but they are... interesting.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    LadyG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:
    Difficult to believe Johnson will make people wear masks inside their own home.
    No, he won't do that. But, that aside, it is highly likely a lockdown like this is coming our way, and it will last for months.

    A bleak bleak picture.
    Sadly inevitable, the other thing that is inevitable is a spike after Christmas and the New Year as people decide to visit family.
    Don’t worry, Brexit will be along to boost the economy and lift the nation’s spirits.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    It's similar to why Trevor Phillips went from being some kind of Blair Tsar on multiculturalism, to thinking it a terrible idea
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    LadyG said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:
    I have no issue with either of them, but it's very hard to escape the conclusion that they (or Harry at least) wants all the attention of being royal with none of the intrusion. Which is something I imagine many people have sympathy with, but is also not what they want from their royals.
    It doesn't help that Harry and Meghan are lecturing us on what awful racists we are, from a $10m mansion in sunny southern California, while we sit in the chilly drizzle listening to their bilge

    They are only going to get more unpopular from here on. It is very sad. I predicted they would become like Edward and Mrs Simpson, quietly loathed by Brits as they partied in their Bahamas mansion, and so it is proving.

    Harry has made a tragic error. She will divorce him in a few years.
    He soooo obviously wants to be drinking beer and playing polo in the English rain with his army chums, and she has so obviously got everything she wanted out of the transaction, that it seems a shame they don't dispense with the few years.
    Hmm not sure. I sense their marriage is MILES happier than William and Kate's. Those two look utterly miserable and faking it the whole time to me.
    Eh? I don't see that at all.

    Harry looks angry and lost, although clearly enthralled by Meghan, and she looks, well, smug.

    William and Kate seem like a typically happy married couple whenever I see them, they were both besotted with each other from first sight and they have three children to prove it.
    I think you're projecting on the H&M front. Seeing what you feel ought to be the case. I was kidding re W&K - just to illustrate how many others are doing what I think you have just done. The projecting. H&M have "rejected us" and it must be the fault of "that woman" who has corrupted "our Harry".
    I'm not projecting, unless you think to disagree with you is projecting? Fair enough on W&K.

    I think there's clear evidence that:

    (a) Meghan is very ambitious and found the Royal Family and its rules stifling - this seems typical of Americans who have Disney-like fantasies about what British royalty is actually like - duty, not being waited on hand & foot
    (b) There are too many stories from close family and friends (and ex-friends) of Meghan to ignore, including those that worked for and with her that point to her being a bit of a diva and rather self-centred
    (c) H&M both want to have their cake and eat it with the media. This is for slightly different reasons. For her, I think she is ambitious and wants herself presented in a certain way - note how she regularly invites them in, and leaks to those in favour, including cooperating on books, but sues those she doesn't like. Harry has a more visceral anger against the media (due to the tragedy of his mother) and basically hates them, but also realises he needs them to do good too - he is more interested in charity and sports than politics.
    (d) Harry is getting love and understanding from Meghan, who he's clearly besotted with, that he feels he didn't ever get from his own family. I have no reason to believe this isn't genuine - I note he looks at her quite a bit more than she looks at him, but not more than that.
    (e) Harry and William are estranged from one another and no longer close, and this is a tragedy for both. He also misses his mates in the UK and army life. I think he still has deep emotional issues he needs to work through.
    (f) Both Harry and Meghan were unhappy with their royal status for different reasons. Meghan because it constrained her and didn't allow her to do what she wanted. Harry because he still harbours some resentment of royal life and the media circus around it, and to some extent he was unhappy because she was too. They both largely assume any criticism *must* be racism, which then has a tendency to politicise opinion on them.
    (g) HMQ bent over backwards to try and find a solution for both Harry and Meghan, who weren't and aren't directly in line to the throne, and could have had a quiet life but still with a distinct role like Sophie/Edward, Kents etc. This wasn't enough for either (and I suspect Meghan a tad more) because they wanted to have their cake and eat it.

    I hope there is a happy ending, but it will depend on them both developing a level of self-awareness and, quite frankly, I think Harry needs help.
    You said she looks "smug".

    ???
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,459
    isam said:

    I had a pint with a mate on Sunday. He tested positive today.

    He has no symptoms though, and his wife and daughters tested negative

    Can I ask what prompted his test?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    isam said:

    From what I read, it seems Trump has no chance of winning. He was a much bigger price on the morning of the 2016 Election though wasn't he?
    Yes, you could get 6/1 on him in 2016.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    kinabalu said:

    Alistair said:

    https://twitter.com/chucklindell/status/1321517036309270533?s=19

    The Texas Supreme Court has already ruled this voting setup legal so this is a quite phenomenal move by the GOP.

    Not keen on this voting business, are they, the Republican Party?
    It's one thing making it difficult to vote. Now they actually want to disqualify votes that have already been legimately cast! (including those who were legitimately cast by disabled people, who even they accept were entitled to use the boxes)!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    edited October 2020
    Mal557 said:

    Alistair said:

    https://twitter.com/chucklindell/status/1321517036309270533?s=19

    The Texas Supreme Court has already ruled this voting setup legal so this is a quite phenomenal move by the GOP.

    They really are shameless.
    Indeed, and we will see only more of this in the coming days up to and just after the election.
    They must be worried in Texas.

    Similar pattern in Nevada where the GOP probably are going down.

    https://twitter.com/RalstonReports/status/1321478382568177664?s=20
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    nichomar said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Andy_JS said:

    On the current numbers, Europe is utterly f**ked with this virus. (and that includes us).

    Yet people are still insisting that we, with infection rates below other areas still getting it worse, have some form of immunity that will make it all go away completely any day now.
    Sorry I thought Europe had it sorted. Europe locked down longest. Europe locked down hardest. Europe locked down smartest. Europe locked down maskiest.

    And yet. Here we are

    This time around though, the markets are much more sensitive to lockdown restrictions, because they have seen how lockdowns destroy economies. They have seen how two week lockdowns turn into six months ones over night. And they know, that even in the richer states, Europe has no effing money left.

    By Friday, Europe could be looking at a full blown economic depression, lasting years, with all the accompanying woes. Enormous unemployment. serial unrest. Severe suppression of liberty. Disintegrating social fabric.

    The cure is killing the patient.

    The only type of lockdown that works is the sort they had in South Korea, China, etc, and that level of authoritarianism and compliance isn't possible in western societies.
    The key isn't lockdown. The key is track and trace that works so that chains of infection are broken quickly. We simply cannot tolerate the level of ineptitude shown in that respect any more. It is no longer funny.
    It seems that we cannot manage it. That is the depressing conclusion I hate to draw but am on the verge of.
    No European, North American or Latin American country has "managed" this. Yet many Asian countries have. That is the true mystery.
    The outlier of big developed "Western Style" countries that are plugged into the world transit system is Australia. They have most of the disadvantages of the European countries in regards to importing Covid (in fact much closer and better direct connections with ground zero) and several very large dense cities.
    Australia unplugged itself from the world transit system in March. Residents are banned from going abroad, foreigners from visiting and the return to Australia of Australian nationals is limited by mandatory quarantine on arrival capacity. There are tens of thousands of Australians who want to go home, but can't.
    Australia also closed the borders INTERNALLY: you were unable to get in and out of Western Australia from the Northern Territory, Tasmania was virtually sealed off, no one could cross from Vic to NSW etc

    This must have been very helpful and explains, in part, their success

    https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-australia/australia-closes-internal-borders-to-capitalise-on-fall-in-new-coronavirus-cases-idUKKBN21K3JZ

    But this is only possible in a massive country with widely dispersed populations and relatively few internal border crossings.
    I think one of the mistakes the UK government made, which credit to Mr Tesco's can't sell oven gloves in Wales did, was not to restrict people unnecessary movements to within a few miles of home, especially as we released the lockdown. We really didn't need 100,000s of people piling down to Brighton and Bournemouth.
    Maybe, but I've just been down in Cornwall where they were all terrified that the huge influx of holidaymakers after lockdown (and the surge was massive and prolonged, because most British tourists could or would not go abroad) would inevitably lead to a sharp rise in Covid cases in Cornwall.

    Yet it hasn't happened at all. Cornwall is still almost Covid-free.

    This virus is a bloody mysterious little bastard. It never behaves QUITE how you expect
    It is interesting, because we know that the European getaway to sunny climbs has caused spread both in that country and across Europe. Maybe as the Cornish are always wary of the Grockles, they already have a built in mechanism to avoid the plague bringers.
    It spreads eagerly when people mix indoors, but not outdoors. Most of the patterns we are seeing can be so explained. Where there has been spread arising from summer travel, it’s been to spots with lively nightlife.
    Yes I think that's true. I also wonder about spending 2-3hrs in an airport with 1000s of other people, compared to going to Cornwall in your car.
    For sure, air travel is a risk, likely both in airports and the inside the planes. Wasn’t there a study released just this week that showed as much?

    I have thought this must be true since the spring, since the chances of holidaymakers to Italy and Spain both chancing upon and having prolonged indoor contact with the then handfuls (proportionately) of positive cases in those countries seemed way to small to explain the number of people flying back who contracted the virus.

    Also note how Europe almost closed down air travel, and recovered from the first wave, whilst the US didn’t, and didn’t.
    The decision by all nations to have a European summer holiday season was absolutely mental. All those months of lockdown and border closures and then you just encourage everybody from across Europe to travel in small metal tubes to intermingle with 1000s of others from every corner of Europe.
    I did wonder if we'd get to the point where the only place you were allowed to get your family together would be on a flight to Spain.
    I contemplated a family meet up in the canaries but reckon it will all have changed before we even got there. Things are moving fast in Spain and it’s becoming difficult to keep up.
    Te map on Facebook with Community after Community shown red as they close borders reminded me of Sir Edward Grey's comments on the eve of the Great war.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Those figures don't pass the sniff test. Either the number of deaths in Germany is too low or the number of positive tests in the UK is too low (I know there's a lag, but the trends have been similar in both countries).
This discussion has been closed.