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If this election follows previous ones then 10m more women will vote than men – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,289

    At least Corbyn never promised space owls.

    https://twitter.com/GOP/status/1319715289328766980?s=20

    :lol:

    Only because Ed Balls said he would resign if there were to be space owls in the manifesto.
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    stodge said:

    MrEd said:


    Thanks for that Stodge. Just a quick question - you mentioned you are suspicious about polls where he who pays the piper calls the tune. I take it then we can ignore polls commissioned by the likes of the Washington Post and New York Times then....?

    I'm sure there are pro-Democrat pollsters though I note both the ABC News/Washington Post and the New York Times/Siena polls are rated A+ by 538 despite the pro-Democrat bias of the former and the pro-Republican bias of the latter.

    The polls about which I'm most sceptical are those commissioned either directly for pro-Trump blogs like the Center for American Greatness or those from little-known polling organisations which just happen to be run by former Republican activists.

    I'm sure if the former commissions a poll they won't be keen to publish one which was bad for Trump and good for Biden and we all know with the right sampling you can get the result for which your client will be looking.
    And where they fail to produce the full content of the polls (including any 'push' questions) and the associated tables showing how the numbers were arrived at.
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Still at least we can rely on Fox News to produce consistently good polling for Trump...

    Oh.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,289
    IanB2 said:

    At least Corbyn never promised space owls.

    https://twitter.com/GOP/status/1319715289328766980?s=20

    That is the sort of crap Boris would come up with, when people are worrying about rather more immediate and critical matters.
    Cut from the same cloth of bullshit merchant.
  • Options
    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    glw said:

    MrEd said:

    Wall Street Journal now deciding to get involved in the Hunter Biden story:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-biden-family-legacy-11603409528?mod=djemalertNEWS

    It is almost inevitable that now until polling day there will be daily revelations about what has happened.

    Is that the opinion piece that WSJ journalists have been criticising?
    The story will only have legs in 3 news media outlets - Fox News, the New York Post, and WSJ. The common denominator? Murdoch.
  • Options
    At the start of the season, who would have guessed that Patrick Bamford and Dominic Calvert-Lewin would be top scorers on the EPL.
  • Options
    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    stodge said:

    MrEd said:


    Thanks for that Stodge. Just a quick question - you mentioned you are suspicious about polls where he who pays the piper calls the tune. I take it then we can ignore polls commissioned by the likes of the Washington Post and New York Times then....?

    I'm sure there are pro-Democrat pollsters though I note both the ABC News/Washington Post and the New York Times/Siena polls are rated A+ by 538 despite the pro-Democrat bias of the former and the pro-Republican bias of the latter.

    The polls about which I'm most sceptical are those commissioned either directly for pro-Trump blogs like the Center for American Greatness or those from little-known polling organisations which just happen to be run by former Republican activists.

    I'm sure if the former commissions a poll they won't be keen to publish one which was bad for Trump and good for Biden and we all know with the right sampling you can get the result for which your client will be looking.
    I think most Republicans will be astounded to find out that the NYT has a pro-Republican bias.
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    TimT said:

    glw said:

    MrEd said:

    Wall Street Journal now deciding to get involved in the Hunter Biden story:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-biden-family-legacy-11603409528?mod=djemalertNEWS

    It is almost inevitable that now until polling day there will be daily revelations about what has happened.

    Is that the opinion piece that WSJ journalists have been criticising?
    The story will only have legs in 3 news media outlets - Fox News, the New York Post, and WSJ. The common denominator? Murdoch.
    And even Fox News seem to be dialing back on it now...
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    TimT said:

    glw said:

    MrEd said:

    Wall Street Journal now deciding to get involved in the Hunter Biden story:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-biden-family-legacy-11603409528?mod=djemalertNEWS

    It is almost inevitable that now until polling day there will be daily revelations about what has happened.

    Is that the opinion piece that WSJ journalists have been criticising?
    The story will only have legs in 3 news media outlets - Fox News, the New York Post, and WSJ. The common denominator? Murdoch.
    Not even the WSJ is interested as news. They've dismissed it.
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    welshowl said:

    How long before the results of the Welsh lockdown might be known? A week or two?

    Not that simple.

    All Wales lockdown ends on the 9th but about two thirds of the population was already in local lockdown and almost certainly most of these still will be for several weeks post the 9th.

    So till today pubs were open in Cardiff till 22.00 each night and you could meet people in a garden but not indoors. All retail was open ( with distancing arrangements ) but you couldn’t travel outside your county boundary without good reason.

    Now all but “essential” retail is shut ( see my despairing comments through the day on this nonsense), pubs etc are shut, and you can’t meet people even outside. Travel still banned. This latter state lasts ( in so far as we know) till Nov 9.
    Actually, it is that simple. We pretty much know what the result of a 2 week lockdown will be.

    The incubation period is 2 weeks. If the timescale of the lockdown is comparable to the incubation period, then you won't see that much change.

    I think this has been demonstrated empirically in the Central Belt and confirmed verbally by Jason Leitch. And it is pretty obvious on general scientific grounds.

    Drakeford will have to double down and go for a longer lockdown, if he wants significant results to show.

    Everything we know about Drakeford, & his ultra-cautious mindset, tells us that this is exactly what he will do.
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,549
    TimT said:

    glw said:

    MrEd said:

    Wall Street Journal now deciding to get involved in the Hunter Biden story:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-biden-family-legacy-11603409528?mod=djemalertNEWS

    It is almost inevitable that now until polling day there will be daily revelations about what has happened.

    Is that the opinion piece that WSJ journalists have been criticising?
    The story will only have legs in 3 news media outlets - Fox News, the New York Post, and WSJ. The common denominator? Murdoch.
    Amusingly both the WSJ and Fox have already debunked the latest round of guff.
  • Options
    glw said:

    TimT said:

    glw said:

    MrEd said:

    Wall Street Journal now deciding to get involved in the Hunter Biden story:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-biden-family-legacy-11603409528?mod=djemalertNEWS

    It is almost inevitable that now until polling day there will be daily revelations about what has happened.

    Is that the opinion piece that WSJ journalists have been criticising?
    The story will only have legs in 3 news media outlets - Fox News, the New York Post, and WSJ. The common denominator? Murdoch.
    Amusingly both the WSJ and Fox have already debunked the latest round of guff.
    Despite Tony Bobulinski "singing like a canary"? The mind boggles.
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    welshowl said:

    How long before the results of the Welsh lockdown might be known? A week or two?

    Not that simple.

    All Wales lockdown ends on the 9th but about two thirds of the population was already in local lockdown and almost certainly most of these still will be for several weeks post the 9th.

    So till today pubs were open in Cardiff till 22.00 each night and you could meet people in a garden but not indoors. All retail was open ( with distancing arrangements ) but you couldn’t travel outside your county boundary without good reason.

    Now all but “essential” retail is shut ( see my despairing comments through the day on this nonsense), pubs etc are shut, and you can’t meet people even outside. Travel still banned. This latter state lasts ( in so far as we know) till Nov 9.
    Actually, it is that simple. We pretty much know what the result of a 2 week lockdown will be.

    The incubation period is 2 weeks. If the timescale of the lockdown is comparable to the incubation period, then you won't see that much change.

    I think this has been demonstrated empirically in the Central Belt and confirmed verbally by Jason Leitch. And it is pretty obvious on general scientific grounds.

    Drakeford will have to double down and go for a longer lockdown, if he wants significant results to show.

    Everything we know about Drakeford, & his ultra-cautious mindset, tells us that this is exactly what he will do.
    I don't know - surely he loses all credibility if he doesn't lift it? The whole argument for the "circuit breaker" lockdowns was that a short sharp lockdown now, saves jobs and businesses from the effects of a longer lockdown later. If you then decide to carry on with it you just undermine the whole argument.

    You either have to hope that it has "worked" (confident that the lag effect will show through in a couple of weeks) or accept that it hasn't (in which case there is no strong argument for continuing).
  • Options
    alex_ said:

    welshowl said:

    How long before the results of the Welsh lockdown might be known? A week or two?

    Not that simple.

    All Wales lockdown ends on the 9th but about two thirds of the population was already in local lockdown and almost certainly most of these still will be for several weeks post the 9th.

    So till today pubs were open in Cardiff till 22.00 each night and you could meet people in a garden but not indoors. All retail was open ( with distancing arrangements ) but you couldn’t travel outside your county boundary without good reason.

    Now all but “essential” retail is shut ( see my despairing comments through the day on this nonsense), pubs etc are shut, and you can’t meet people even outside. Travel still banned. This latter state lasts ( in so far as we know) till Nov 9.
    Actually, it is that simple. We pretty much know what the result of a 2 week lockdown will be.

    The incubation period is 2 weeks. If the timescale of the lockdown is comparable to the incubation period, then you won't see that much change.

    I think this has been demonstrated empirically in the Central Belt and confirmed verbally by Jason Leitch. And it is pretty obvious on general scientific grounds.

    Drakeford will have to double down and go for a longer lockdown, if he wants significant results to show.

    Everything we know about Drakeford, & his ultra-cautious mindset, tells us that this is exactly what he will do.
    I don't know - surely he loses all credibility if he doesn't lift it? The whole argument for the "circuit breaker" lockdowns was that a short sharp lockdown now, saves jobs and businesses from the effects of a longer lockdown later. If you then decide to carry on with it you just undermine the whole argument.

    You either have to hope that it has "worked" (confident that the lag effect will show through in a couple of weeks) or accept that it hasn't (in which case there is no strong argument for continuing).
    Well in Scotland they have already extended it.
  • Options
    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    IanB2 said:

    Bad data from the US (CNN): Thursday was the highest day for new infections since July 24 and the day with the fourth highest total ever, at 71,671, Johns Hopkins says.

    More than 41,000 people were hospitalized across the country, according to the Covid Tracking Project. This is the highest level of nationwide hospitalizations since Aug 20.

    and with thanksgiving looming, analysis suggests family gatherings and house parties are already the principal mode of transmission in most states

    The key burning issue now is how to stop turkeys growing any bigger so that our smaller family Thanksgiving gatherings do not have inappropriately-sized birds.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,532

    Why do all those UK freedom lovers not quite ancient enough to remember what WWII was actually like hearken back fondly to this period of extreme government control?

    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1319342959062622210?s=20

    To be fair to Maureen the Dingle, she was alive during the Blitz.
    The Blitz, the one with curfews, ID cards, rationing and blackouts, that Blitz?
    No, the one with the libertarian thing about having no blackout if it made you feel constrained.

    Maybe she was living on the East Coast of the US during Operation Drumbeat?
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    alex_ said:

    welshowl said:

    How long before the results of the Welsh lockdown might be known? A week or two?

    Not that simple.

    All Wales lockdown ends on the 9th but about two thirds of the population was already in local lockdown and almost certainly most of these still will be for several weeks post the 9th.

    So till today pubs were open in Cardiff till 22.00 each night and you could meet people in a garden but not indoors. All retail was open ( with distancing arrangements ) but you couldn’t travel outside your county boundary without good reason.

    Now all but “essential” retail is shut ( see my despairing comments through the day on this nonsense), pubs etc are shut, and you can’t meet people even outside. Travel still banned. This latter state lasts ( in so far as we know) till Nov 9.
    Actually, it is that simple. We pretty much know what the result of a 2 week lockdown will be.

    The incubation period is 2 weeks. If the timescale of the lockdown is comparable to the incubation period, then you won't see that much change.

    I think this has been demonstrated empirically in the Central Belt and confirmed verbally by Jason Leitch. And it is pretty obvious on general scientific grounds.

    Drakeford will have to double down and go for a longer lockdown, if he wants significant results to show.

    Everything we know about Drakeford, & his ultra-cautious mindset, tells us that this is exactly what he will do.
    I don't know - surely he loses all credibility if he doesn't lift it? The whole argument for the "circuit breaker" lockdowns was that a short sharp lockdown now, saves jobs and businesses from the effects of a longer lockdown later. If you then decide to carry on with it you just undermine the whole argument.

    You either have to hope that it has "worked" (confident that the lag effect will show through in a couple of weeks) or accept that it hasn't (in which case there is no strong argument for continuing).
    Well in Scotland they have already extended it.
    Yeah, but Sturgeon was never quite so explicit about what she was doing. And wasn't engaging in a complete lockdown.

    She also justified the extension as a bridge to the new Tier system, on the grounds that it would be pointless lifting the restrictions if the area found itself in a tier which required their reimposition in a couple of days
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    alex_ said:

    welshowl said:

    How long before the results of the Welsh lockdown might be known? A week or two?

    Not that simple.

    All Wales lockdown ends on the 9th but about two thirds of the population was already in local lockdown and almost certainly most of these still will be for several weeks post the 9th.

    So till today pubs were open in Cardiff till 22.00 each night and you could meet people in a garden but not indoors. All retail was open ( with distancing arrangements ) but you couldn’t travel outside your county boundary without good reason.

    Now all but “essential” retail is shut ( see my despairing comments through the day on this nonsense), pubs etc are shut, and you can’t meet people even outside. Travel still banned. This latter state lasts ( in so far as we know) till Nov 9.
    Actually, it is that simple. We pretty much know what the result of a 2 week lockdown will be.

    The incubation period is 2 weeks. If the timescale of the lockdown is comparable to the incubation period, then you won't see that much change.

    I think this has been demonstrated empirically in the Central Belt and confirmed verbally by Jason Leitch. And it is pretty obvious on general scientific grounds.

    Drakeford will have to double down and go for a longer lockdown, if he wants significant results to show.

    Everything we know about Drakeford, & his ultra-cautious mindset, tells us that this is exactly what he will do.
    I don't know - surely he loses all credibility if he doesn't lift it? The whole argument for the "circuit breaker" lockdowns was that a short sharp lockdown now, saves jobs and businesses from the effects of a longer lockdown later. If you then decide to carry on with it you just undermine the whole argument.

    Jobs .. businesses ...

    This is a Welsh politician you are talking about. No politician in Wales is remotely interested in the Welsh economy.

    The Welsh Tories are not interested because they know they will never be in power in Wales. The Welsh Labour Party are not interested because they know that business is evil. And Plaid Cymru are not interested because they are pre-occupied by cultural matters ... and increasingly internal strife.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,771
    IshmaelZ said:

    This Borat rehash is a bit weak. Mind you the first one wasn't great either (except for the immortal naked wrestling scene).

    His daughter is chip off the old block...
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,954
    I know that all national identity is pretty arbitrary when you get right down to it, and ones can develop with a pseudohistorical basis, but I think you'd have to really stretch a definition to conclude Northumbrians, of any particular definition, have not been English for quite some time.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Alistair said:

    TimT said:

    glw said:

    MrEd said:

    Wall Street Journal now deciding to get involved in the Hunter Biden story:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-biden-family-legacy-11603409528?mod=djemalertNEWS

    It is almost inevitable that now until polling day there will be daily revelations about what has happened.

    Is that the opinion piece that WSJ journalists have been criticising?
    The story will only have legs in 3 news media outlets - Fox News, the New York Post, and WSJ. The common denominator? Murdoch.
    Not even the WSJ is interested as news. They've dismissed it.
    I thought Murdoch had lost patience with Trump.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,954
    ydoethur said:

    Not a very convincing map. The Welsh name for Cardigan is Aberteifi, not Ceredigion. Ceredigion was the name of the kingdom based on it.
    Well in fairness they aren't hugely interested in Wales I should think, though that does make them more similar to the English than they might like.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,289
    Maureen back on BBC news.

    How long before Farage has her signed up to his new, new, new party?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,954
    HYUFD said:
    Yes, Georgia seeming a bit of a stretch.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,954
    MattW said:

    alex_ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    PB Tories no comment at all, I wonder how quick they would be on it if it was a Labour MP

    First, I don't think there are any PB Tories any more. Secondly, nobody knows what this is about and you are not allowed to tell us. Thirdly, what the story is truly about is the pompous idiocy of the jury system. OT1H the randomers on the jury are supposed to have the intelligence, integrity, independence and soundness of judgment to convict defendants, or not, on charges which can lead to life imprisonment. OTO, if we have an instance of Priti being a twat on twitter, the option of saying "You probably never saw this but if you did it's just Priti being a twat on twitter, ignore it and carry on" is not available, because it seems jurors lack the intelligence, integrity, independence and soundness of judgment to understand and follow that advice. So which is it?
    Imagine Dianne Abbott had said the same thing. Would you be saying the same thing, of course not.

    And no more PB Tories? Hahahahaha
    I don't know what "the same thing" is, you absolute beneficiary of my unwavering policy of never in any circumstances calling other people morons on the internet.
    There’s no need to be rude.

    I am talking about Priti Patel’s Tweet.
    Well, the remark I was replying to suggested I was A. a PB Tory and B. applying double standards to a question, so if there's no need to be rude I assume you are doing it just for the hell of it.

    Again: I do not know what Patel's tweet said. This is because the tweet has been deleted, as I understand it, as being potentially in contempt of court, and nobody is allowed to tell me what it said without also being potentially in contempt of court. Clear now?
    I never said or suggested you were a PB Tory. You replied to a post not directed at you and even then I never said you were one. So first of all you're wrong.

    I don't know what on Earth your problem is buddy.
    Who are the PB tories then?
    They are behind you !
    And all around you.

    And be careful, as spend too much time amongst them and BANG, then you will see one in the mirror...
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,775

    glw said:

    TimT said:

    glw said:

    MrEd said:

    Wall Street Journal now deciding to get involved in the Hunter Biden story:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-biden-family-legacy-11603409528?mod=djemalertNEWS

    It is almost inevitable that now until polling day there will be daily revelations about what has happened.

    Is that the opinion piece that WSJ journalists have been criticising?
    The story will only have legs in 3 news media outlets - Fox News, the New York Post, and WSJ. The common denominator? Murdoch.
    Amusingly both the WSJ and Fox have already debunked the latest round of guff.
    Despite Tony Bobulinski "singing like a canary"? The mind boggles.
    Canaries can read a script ?
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,503
    Well, I'm Wessex and we pwned the Vikings and then united the whole of England behind us.

    Winchester be thy glory.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,954
    edited October 2020

    At least Corbyn never promised space owls.

    https://twitter.com/GOP/status/1319715289328766980?s=20

    Well, all very ambitious, but what's up with 2 of the 4 things being space stuff? But if Trump wants to go I am sure many will be happy for him to try.

    And just 'high' speed internet, not superhigh or megafast?
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,995
    kle4 said:

    I know that all national identity is pretty arbitrary when you get right down to it, and ones can develop with a pseudohistorical basis, but I think you'd have to really stretch a definition to conclude Northumbrians, of any particular definition, have not been English for quite some time.
    Living up here it doesn't really feel like that.
    The only English is in the not Scots sense.
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460

    welshowl said:

    How long before the results of the Welsh lockdown might be known? A week or two?

    Not that simple.

    All Wales lockdown ends on the 9th but about two thirds of the population was already in local lockdown and almost certainly most of these still will be for several weeks post the 9th.

    So till today pubs were open in Cardiff till 22.00 each night and you could meet people in a garden but not indoors. All retail was open ( with distancing arrangements ) but you couldn’t travel outside your county boundary without good reason.

    Now all but “essential” retail is shut ( see my despairing comments through the day on this nonsense), pubs etc are shut, and you can’t meet people even outside. Travel still banned. This latter state lasts ( in so far as we know) till Nov 9.
    Actually, it is that simple. We pretty much know what the result of a 2 week lockdown will be.

    The incubation period is 2 weeks. If the timescale of the lockdown is comparable to the incubation period, then you won't see that much change.

    I think this has been demonstrated empirically in the Central Belt and confirmed verbally by Jason Leitch. And it is pretty obvious on general scientific grounds.

    Drakeford will have to double down and go for a longer lockdown, if he wants significant results to show.

    Everything we know about Drakeford, & his ultra-cautious mindset, tells us that this is exactly what he will do.
    Think incubation is a max of 14 days, but actually peaks at about 5/6?

    Not that it’s going to mean there’s going to be anything definite by the z9th one way or another.

    Personally I’m expecting local restrictions here till December at the least. I can see the desire to try to suppress as far as possible before Xmas, to get as low an infection base as possible, because frankly I don’t see how any govt really enforces letting granny sit at home on her tod. There would be mass disobedience.
  • Options
    IshmaelZ said:

    Alistair said:

    TimT said:

    glw said:

    MrEd said:

    Wall Street Journal now deciding to get involved in the Hunter Biden story:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-biden-family-legacy-11603409528?mod=djemalertNEWS

    It is almost inevitable that now until polling day there will be daily revelations about what has happened.

    Is that the opinion piece that WSJ journalists have been criticising?
    The story will only have legs in 3 news media outlets - Fox News, the New York Post, and WSJ. The common denominator? Murdoch.
    Not even the WSJ is interested as news. They've dismissed it.
    I thought Murdoch had lost patience with Trump.
    He's in Rupe limbo, thinks that Trump has the smell of death but instinctively wants to keep putting the boot into the Dems/libs/elite etc.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,289
    kle4 said:

    At least Corbyn never promised space owls.

    https://twitter.com/GOP/status/1319715289328766980?s=20

    Well, all very ambitious, but what's up with 2 of the 4 things being space stuff? But if Trump wants to go I am sure many will be happy for him to try.

    And just 'high' speed internet, not superhigh or megafast?
    The moon needs a wall.
  • Options
    kle4 said:

    I know that all national identity is pretty arbitrary when you get right down to it, and ones can develop with a pseudohistorical basis, but I think you'd have to really stretch a definition to conclude Northumbrians, of any particular definition, have not been English for quite some time.
    They used to speak Welsh in Cumbria.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,775
    McConnell does not look well.
    Is that a cannula in his hand ?

    https://twitter.com/CNNPolitics/status/1319682778779320326
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,954
    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    I know that all national identity is pretty arbitrary when you get right down to it, and ones can develop with a pseudohistorical basis, but I think you'd have to really stretch a definition to conclude Northumbrians, of any particular definition, have not been English for quite some time.
    Living up here it doesn't really feel like that.
    The only English is in the not Scots sense.
    It all feels a bit exaggerated to me. This is one of the oldest pretty stable polities in the world, I find it a bit hard to accept there are massively irreconcilable differences between parts of this country rather than the magnification of small differences.
  • Options
    Well, the Allies did reach the Yalu River in autumn 1950, but by the end of the year, the Chinese intervened and pushed them south.
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460

    kle4 said:

    I know that all national identity is pretty arbitrary when you get right down to it, and ones can develop with a pseudohistorical basis, but I think you'd have to really stretch a definition to conclude Northumbrians, of any particular definition, have not been English for quite some time.
    They used to speak Welsh in Cumbria.
    They used to speak it in London.

    London is really just an English version of the Welsh Llundain.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,954
    I wonder if he might eventually just give up the pretence and call himself Emperor Xi? I mean, the falsity of the CCP branding at this point is just sad.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,931
    kle4 said:

    At least Corbyn never promised space owls.

    https://twitter.com/GOP/status/1319715289328766980?s=20

    Well, all very ambitious, but what's up with 2 of the 4 things being space stuff? But if Trump wants to go I am sure many will be happy for him to try.

    And just 'high' speed internet, not superhigh or megafast?
    Won't the high speed internet be coming from SpaceX/Starlink?

    I'd advise against anyone else investing in rural broadband, until we see if they can come close to delivering on their promises of cheap satellite internet.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,954

    kle4 said:

    I know that all national identity is pretty arbitrary when you get right down to it, and ones can develop with a pseudohistorical basis, but I think you'd have to really stretch a definition to conclude Northumbrians, of any particular definition, have not been English for quite some time.
    They used to speak Welsh in Cumbria.
    And at some point many people spoke Proto-Indo-European.
  • Options
    IshmaelZ said:

    This Borat rehash is a bit weak. Mind you the first one wasn't great either (except for the immortal naked wrestling scene).

    You are merely spouting nothing but Uzbekistani propaganda!
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,532

    kle4 said:

    At least Corbyn never promised space owls.

    https://twitter.com/GOP/status/1319715289328766980?s=20

    Well, all very ambitious, but what's up with 2 of the 4 things being space stuff? But if Trump wants to go I am sure many will be happy for him to try.

    And just 'high' speed internet, not superhigh or megafast?
    The moon needs a wall.
    2 and 4 could well be done. By Elon Musk, not by Trump, or pretty much anything to do with him.

    The high speed wireless network across the country could be provided by adding lots of cell towers connected to Starlink satellite connections for backhaul. Nothing to do with Trumpski or his poodle at the FCC
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,771
    Nigelb said:

    McConnell does not look well.
    Is that a cannula in his hand ?

    https://twitter.com/CNNPolitics/status/1319682778779320326

    Bit of a mess, but looks like steristrips not cannula.
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    2020 General Election Early Voting - Ballot Returns King Co, Washington as of Noon (PDT) Friday, Oct 23

    cumulative ballots returned (as % of total active voter registration)

    King Co = 555,486 (39.4%)

    City of Seattle = 225,017 (45.3%)

    Analysis of last night's statewide returns shows that high-turnout voters AND Democrats are over-represented in the early returns so far.

    However, note that nearly 10% of voters rated UNLIKELY to vote IF 2016 turnout was repeated this year have already returned their ballots, twelve days BEFORE EDay.

    Am sure further analysis will show a Democratic advantage in early voting of these low-turnout voters.



  • Options
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I know that all national identity is pretty arbitrary when you get right down to it, and ones can develop with a pseudohistorical basis, but I think you'd have to really stretch a definition to conclude Northumbrians, of any particular definition, have not been English for quite some time.
    They used to speak Welsh in Cumbria.
    And at some point many people spoke Proto-Indo-European.
    Many? Or just a small ancestral population?
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,995
    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    I know that all national identity is pretty arbitrary when you get right down to it, and ones can develop with a pseudohistorical basis, but I think you'd have to really stretch a definition to conclude Northumbrians, of any particular definition, have not been English for quite some time.
    Living up here it doesn't really feel like that.
    The only English is in the not Scots sense.
    It all feels a bit exaggerated to me. This is one of the oldest pretty stable polities in the world, I find it a bit hard to accept there are massively irreconcilable differences between parts of this country rather than the magnification of small differences.
    I would agree for now. But 50 years ago the SNP were eccentric cranks. Even at the turn of the century the idea of their dominance seemed outlandish.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,954
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    England was only created by combining Wessex, Northumbria and Mercia, without Northumbria there is no England
    You’re forgetting:

    1) East Anglia

    2) Eadward the Elder took the title of King of England following his suppression of his cousin’s kingdom of Mercia in 918.
    I do enjoy how much we do and do not know about early England. I've been reading some pocket sized biographies of early kings, and one, I think it was William II, we apparently don't even know where he was for 2 years of his reign, as the sources just are't there.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,775
    edited October 2020

    Well, the Allies did reach the Yalu River in autumn 1950, but by the end of the year, the Chinese intervened and pushed them south.
    Only because MacArthur was an insubordinate fool.
    In sending them there in the first place.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,972
    Nigelb said:

    McConnell does not look well.
    Is that a cannula in his hand ?

    https://twitter.com/CNNPolitics/status/1319682778779320326

    It's like the portrait of Dorien Gray, without a secret painting.
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    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I know that all national identity is pretty arbitrary when you get right down to it, and ones can develop with a pseudohistorical basis, but I think you'd have to really stretch a definition to conclude Northumbrians, of any particular definition, have not been English for quite some time.
    They used to speak Welsh in Cumbria.
    And at some point many people spoke Proto-Indo-European.
    In fairness local Welsh ( Cumbrian) probably only died out in the 12th century. The mountain Helvellyn, or Penrith, sound like Welsh because basically they are. As is the word Cumbria ( Cymru ).
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,954
    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    I know that all national identity is pretty arbitrary when you get right down to it, and ones can develop with a pseudohistorical basis, but I think you'd have to really stretch a definition to conclude Northumbrians, of any particular definition, have not been English for quite some time.
    Living up here it doesn't really feel like that.
    The only English is in the not Scots sense.
    It all feels a bit exaggerated to me. This is one of the oldest pretty stable polities in the world, I find it a bit hard to accept there are massively irreconcilable differences between parts of this country rather than the magnification of small differences.
    I would agree for now. But 50 years ago the SNP were eccentric cranks. Even at the turn of the century the idea of their dominance seemed outlandish.
    Sure, and granted the world trend is toward nations breaking apart thesedays, but rise in Scottish sentiment appealing to history is one thing, we're orders of magitude beyond that if we're getting into Northumberland. The myth versus the reality would have to be working so much harder.
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    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    welsh owl said:



    Think incubation is a max of 14 days, but actually peaks at about 5/6?

    Not that it’s going to mean there’s going to be anything definite by the z9th one way or another.

    Personally I’m expecting local restrictions here till December at the least. I can see the desire to try to suppress as far as possible before Xmas, to get as low an infection base as possible, because frankly I don’t see how any govt really enforces letting granny sit at home on her tod. There would be mass disobedience.

    There was a hilarious interview by Evan Davies on poor old Mark Drakeford on R4 the other day.

    He just kept on saying, "We like to be careful in Wales, you know. We like to do things cautiously. It is careful steps that we take here in Wales". Evan was knocking him about mercilessly.

    So, I think expecting substantial Welsh restrictions till December .... 2022 .... is pretty realistic.

    I note that despite Mark being careful & cautious, and living on his own in a hut in his garden, his wife and mother still ended up with the virus.

    He seems ... shall we say, accident-prone when it comes to his family.
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    kle4 said:

    At least Corbyn never promised space owls.

    https://twitter.com/GOP/status/1319715289328766980?s=20

    Well, all very ambitious, but what's up with 2 of the 4 things being space stuff? But if Trump wants to go I am sure many will be happy for him to try.

    And just 'high' speed internet, not superhigh or megafast?
    The moon needs a wall.
    2 and 4 could well be done. By Elon Musk, not by Trump, or pretty much anything to do with him.

    The high speed wireless network across the country could be provided by adding lots of cell towers connected to Starlink satellite connections for backhaul. Nothing to do with Trumpski or his poodle at the FCC
    Note that one alternative to the Shy Trumpsky vote theory is the Shy Kanye vote.

    Further note that Elon Musk is one of (the very few) endorsers of KW.

    Coincidence? Kismet?? Conspiracy???
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,116
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,954

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I know that all national identity is pretty arbitrary when you get right down to it, and ones can develop with a pseudohistorical basis, but I think you'd have to really stretch a definition to conclude Northumbrians, of any particular definition, have not been English for quite some time.
    They used to speak Welsh in Cumbria.
    And at some point many people spoke Proto-Indo-European.
    Many? Or just a small ancestral population?
    For the time I assume it was many, though you're right I imagine it was a small group.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,348

    kle4 said:

    At least Corbyn never promised space owls.

    https://twitter.com/GOP/status/1319715289328766980?s=20

    Well, all very ambitious, but what's up with 2 of the 4 things being space stuff? But if Trump wants to go I am sure many will be happy for him to try.

    And just 'high' speed internet, not superhigh or megafast?
    The moon needs a wall.
    The pub landlord had it right. What’s the point? There’s nothing there we would want. No hot and spicy food, nor Olympic quality athletes. And no one to give it back to when we’ve finished with it.
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    rawzerrawzer Posts: 189
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Yes, Georgia seeming a bit of a stretch.
    Depends which of todays Georgia polls sir fancies today...

    Ga. OCT 12-15, 2020 A/B Opinion Insight* 800 LV Biden 49% 45% Trump Biden+4
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    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,830
    kle4 said:

    I know that all national identity is pretty arbitrary when you get right down to it, and ones can develop with a pseudohistorical basis, but I think you'd have to really stretch a definition to conclude Northumbrians, of any particular definition, have not been English for quite some time.
    Is the Welsh dart into the East Midlands inspired by Bonnie Prince Charlie?
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    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Are newspapers considered "essential" goods?
  • Options
    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited October 2020
    kle4 said:

    At least Corbyn never promised space owls.

    https://twitter.com/GOP/status/1319715289328766980?s=20

    Well, all very ambitious, but what's up with 2 of the 4 things being space stuff? But if Trump wants to go I am sure many will be happy for him to try.

    And just 'high' speed internet, not superhigh or megafast?
    The US's manned spaceflight infrastructure (read jobs) is almost entirely based in red states. That includes SpaceX.

    As alluded to above, for GOP-leaners we're largely talking about rural/suburban internet access which can be quite poor in areas. They'll be thankful for any increase. Super-mega-hyperfast is more a deep blue concern.
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    Nigelb said:

    Well, the Allies did reach the Yalu River in autumn 1950, but by the end of the year, the Chinese intervened and pushed them south.
    Only because MacArthur was an insubordinate fool.
    In sending them there in the first place.
    My own Daddy Dearest never made it to the Yalu, but close enough - MUCH too close - with USMC and Royal Marines during Chosin Reservoir Campaign.

    Needless to say, though he was there are MacArthur's greatest military achievement - the Inchon Landing - my father was NOT a great admirer of "Dugout Doug".
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    rawzerrawzer Posts: 189
    rawzer said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Yes, Georgia seeming a bit of a stretch.
    Depends which of todays Georgia polls sir fancies today...

    Ga. OCT 12-15, 2020 A/B Opinion Insight* 800 LV Biden 49% 45% Trump Biden+4
    oh, actually Georgia just went blue again on the 538 'snake'
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,532

    kle4 said:

    At least Corbyn never promised space owls.

    https://twitter.com/GOP/status/1319715289328766980?s=20

    Well, all very ambitious, but what's up with 2 of the 4 things being space stuff? But if Trump wants to go I am sure many will be happy for him to try.

    And just 'high' speed internet, not superhigh or megafast?
    The US's manned spaceflight infrastructure (read jobs) is almost entirely based in red states. That includes SpaceX.

    As alluded to above, for GOP-leaners we're largely talking about rural/suburban internet access which can be quite poor in areas. They'll be thankful for any increase. Super-mega-hyperfast is more a deep blue concern.
    Rather large chunks of SpaceX are in California.
  • Options
    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited October 2020

    kle4 said:

    At least Corbyn never promised space owls.

    https://twitter.com/GOP/status/1319715289328766980?s=20

    Well, all very ambitious, but what's up with 2 of the 4 things being space stuff? But if Trump wants to go I am sure many will be happy for him to try.

    And just 'high' speed internet, not superhigh or megafast?
    The US's manned spaceflight infrastructure (read jobs) is almost entirely based in red states. That includes SpaceX.

    As alluded to above, for GOP-leaners we're largely talking about rural/suburban internet access which can be quite poor in areas. They'll be thankful for any increase. Super-mega-hyperfast is more a deep blue concern.
    Rather large chunks of SpaceX are in California.
    Won't be for long...

    Elon is increasingly fed up with Cali's leadership. Hence why he's moved his new project to Texas.
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I know that all national identity is pretty arbitrary when you get right down to it, and ones can develop with a pseudohistorical basis, but I think you'd have to really stretch a definition to conclude Northumbrians, of any particular definition, have not been English for quite some time.
    They used to speak Welsh in Cumbria.
    And at some point many people spoke Proto-Indo-European.
    Many? Or just a small ancestral population?
    For the time I assume it was many, though you're right I imagine it was a small group.
    The kingdoms of Rheged and later Strathclyde probably stretched from Lancashire to Glasgow or thereabouts from the 7thC on, before being conquered or absorbed by Northumbria, various Vikings, and Scotland.

    They left an early Welsh veneer of names. As well as Cumbria ( Cymru), Helvellyn ( melyn - yellow), and Penrith ( Penrhydd - head of the fords ), there’s Ecclefechan ( Eglwys Fechan - litttle church ) Lanark ( Llanerch), Penicuik ( Pen y coed - Forest End) and best of all Glasgow ( Glas Cae green field ( blue actually but don’t ask), as well as others.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,972
    rawzer said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Yes, Georgia seeming a bit of a stretch.
    Depends which of todays Georgia polls sir fancies today...

    Ga. OCT 12-15, 2020 A/B Opinion Insight* 800 LV Biden 49% 45% Trump Biden+4
    Trump + 4 is perfectly credible, think Warnock is going to get way more than 33% though. Barely any Dems will vote Liebermann
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,532

    kle4 said:

    At least Corbyn never promised space owls.

    https://twitter.com/GOP/status/1319715289328766980?s=20

    Well, all very ambitious, but what's up with 2 of the 4 things being space stuff? But if Trump wants to go I am sure many will be happy for him to try.

    And just 'high' speed internet, not superhigh or megafast?
    The US's manned spaceflight infrastructure (read jobs) is almost entirely based in red states. That includes SpaceX.

    As alluded to above, for GOP-leaners we're largely talking about rural/suburban internet access which can be quite poor in areas. They'll be thankful for any increase. Super-mega-hyperfast is more a deep blue concern.
    Rather large chunks of SpaceX are in California.
    Won't be for long...
    Errrr nope. The East Coast (Florida and Texas) operations are there because it is considered impolite to overfly populated areas with rockets. There is absolutely no chance of them leaving Hawthorne.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,826
    Frank Luntz's focus group responds to the debate.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UT9fEeupVg0
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,954
    Pro_Rata said:

    kle4 said:

    I know that all national identity is pretty arbitrary when you get right down to it, and ones can develop with a pseudohistorical basis, but I think you'd have to really stretch a definition to conclude Northumbrians, of any particular definition, have not been English for quite some time.
    Is the Welsh dart into the East Midlands inspired by Bonnie Prince Charlie?
    I've been suspicious of the Welsh ever since I went the wrong way on the motorway and was headed toward the Severn Bridge, turned around, and came upon a 'Welcome to England' sign without even having left it, but clearly the Welsh had sortied across and pushed back the border!
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,532

    kle4 said:

    At least Corbyn never promised space owls.

    https://twitter.com/GOP/status/1319715289328766980?s=20

    Well, all very ambitious, but what's up with 2 of the 4 things being space stuff? But if Trump wants to go I am sure many will be happy for him to try.

    And just 'high' speed internet, not superhigh or megafast?
    The US's manned spaceflight infrastructure (read jobs) is almost entirely based in red states. That includes SpaceX.

    As alluded to above, for GOP-leaners we're largely talking about rural/suburban internet access which can be quite poor in areas. They'll be thankful for any increase. Super-mega-hyperfast is more a deep blue concern.
    Rather large chunks of SpaceX are in California.
    Won't be for long...

    Elon is increasingly fed up with Cali's leadership. Hence why he's moved his new project to Texas.
    Which he has shown... by opening new facilities there. Such as the new R&D facility for Starlink....
  • Options
    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352

    kle4 said:

    At least Corbyn never promised space owls.

    https://twitter.com/GOP/status/1319715289328766980?s=20

    Well, all very ambitious, but what's up with 2 of the 4 things being space stuff? But if Trump wants to go I am sure many will be happy for him to try.

    And just 'high' speed internet, not superhigh or megafast?
    The US's manned spaceflight infrastructure (read jobs) is almost entirely based in red states. That includes SpaceX.

    As alluded to above, for GOP-leaners we're largely talking about rural/suburban internet access which can be quite poor in areas. They'll be thankful for any increase. Super-mega-hyperfast is more a deep blue concern.
    Rather large chunks of SpaceX are in California.
    Won't be for long...
    Errrr nope. The East Coast (Florida and Texas) operations are there because it is considered impolite to overfly populated areas with rockets. There is absolutely no chance of them leaving Hawthorne.
    For Musk the future of SpaceX is Starship.

    Where is Starship being developed and launched? Texas.
  • Options
    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited October 2020

    kle4 said:

    At least Corbyn never promised space owls.

    https://twitter.com/GOP/status/1319715289328766980?s=20

    Well, all very ambitious, but what's up with 2 of the 4 things being space stuff? But if Trump wants to go I am sure many will be happy for him to try.

    And just 'high' speed internet, not superhigh or megafast?
    The US's manned spaceflight infrastructure (read jobs) is almost entirely based in red states. That includes SpaceX.

    As alluded to above, for GOP-leaners we're largely talking about rural/suburban internet access which can be quite poor in areas. They'll be thankful for any increase. Super-mega-hyperfast is more a deep blue concern.
    Rather large chunks of SpaceX are in California.
    Won't be for long...

    Elon is increasingly fed up with Cali's leadership. Hence why he's moved his new project to Texas.
    Which he has shown... by opening new facilities there. Such as the new R&D facility for Starlink....
    ...Starlink is not manned spaceflight.
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    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,782
    alex_ said:

    Are newspapers considered "essential" goods?
    Well they were still selling them in the Tesco I was in a couple of hours ago, along with all the Magazines (like the ones that are all about Cats). Not light bulbs though, so I guess if you live in a bedsit and your existing bulb breaks, you've just got to live in the dark for the next 2 1/2 weeks.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    I see the NYT has done one of its "man on the street regular undecided voters" pieces again where it turns out the people interviewed are GOP comms directors and sons of Trump appointed ambassadors and the like.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Trump absolutely nailing down the Suburban Women vote

    https://twitter.com/kathrynw5/status/1319750243626356737?s=19
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,532

    kle4 said:

    At least Corbyn never promised space owls.

    https://twitter.com/GOP/status/1319715289328766980?s=20

    Well, all very ambitious, but what's up with 2 of the 4 things being space stuff? But if Trump wants to go I am sure many will be happy for him to try.

    And just 'high' speed internet, not superhigh or megafast?
    The US's manned spaceflight infrastructure (read jobs) is almost entirely based in red states. That includes SpaceX.

    As alluded to above, for GOP-leaners we're largely talking about rural/suburban internet access which can be quite poor in areas. They'll be thankful for any increase. Super-mega-hyperfast is more a deep blue concern.
    Rather large chunks of SpaceX are in California.
    Won't be for long...
    Errrr nope. The East Coast (Florida and Texas) operations are there because it is considered impolite to overfly populated areas with rockets. There is absolutely no chance of them leaving Hawthorne.
    For Musk the future of SpaceX is Starship.

    Where is Starship being developed and launched? Texas.

    kle4 said:

    At least Corbyn never promised space owls.

    https://twitter.com/GOP/status/1319715289328766980?s=20

    Well, all very ambitious, but what's up with 2 of the 4 things being space stuff? But if Trump wants to go I am sure many will be happy for him to try.

    And just 'high' speed internet, not superhigh or megafast?
    The US's manned spaceflight infrastructure (read jobs) is almost entirely based in red states. That includes SpaceX.

    As alluded to above, for GOP-leaners we're largely talking about rural/suburban internet access which can be quite poor in areas. They'll be thankful for any increase. Super-mega-hyperfast is more a deep blue concern.
    Rather large chunks of SpaceX are in California.
    Won't be for long...
    Errrr nope. The East Coast (Florida and Texas) operations are there because it is considered impolite to overfly populated areas with rockets. There is absolutely no chance of them leaving Hawthorne.
    For Musk the future of SpaceX is Starship.

    Where is Starship being developed and launched? Texas.
    Sigh. Most rockets are launched Eastwards - to utilise the Earths spin, among other things.

    Launching Eastwards from Vandenberg would not be allowed because you are not allowed to fly rocket launches over people, in most of the world......

    And the Raptor engine is being built at... Hawthorne.
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,995
    Alistair said:

    Trump absolutely nailing down the Suburban Women vote

    https://twitter.com/kathrynw5/status/1319750243626356737?s=19

    The "especially a female" is a nice touch I think.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,357
    alex_ said:

    stodge said:

    MrEd said:


    Thanks for that Stodge. Just a quick question - you mentioned you are suspicious about polls where he who pays the piper calls the tune. I take it then we can ignore polls commissioned by the likes of the Washington Post and New York Times then....?

    I'm sure there are pro-Democrat pollsters though I note both the ABC News/Washington Post and the New York Times/Siena polls are rated A+ by 538 despite the pro-Democrat bias of the former and the pro-Republican bias of the latter.

    The polls about which I'm most sceptical are those commissioned either directly for pro-Trump blogs like the Center for American Greatness or those from little-known polling organisations which just happen to be run by former Republican activists.

    I'm sure if the former commissions a poll they won't be keen to publish one which was bad for Trump and good for Biden and we all know with the right sampling you can get the result for which your client will be looking.
    And where they fail to produce the full content of the polls (including any 'push' questions) and the associated tables showing how the numbers were arrived at.
    Do we know what the SurveyMonkey polls are based on? I see they have a D- rating from 538, and I think of them as a seller of DIY voodoo polls, but their results look reasonably plausible.
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    There but for the grace of God...
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    kle4 said:

    At least Corbyn never promised space owls.

    https://twitter.com/GOP/status/1319715289328766980?s=20

    Well, all very ambitious, but what's up with 2 of the 4 things being space stuff? But if Trump wants to go I am sure many will be happy for him to try.

    And just 'high' speed internet, not superhigh or megafast?
    The US's manned spaceflight infrastructure (read jobs) is almost entirely based in red states. That includes SpaceX.

    As alluded to above, for GOP-leaners we're largely talking about rural/suburban internet access which can be quite poor in areas. They'll be thankful for any increase. Super-mega-hyperfast is more a deep blue concern.
    Rather large chunks of SpaceX are in California.
    Won't be for long...
    Errrr nope. The East Coast (Florida and Texas) operations are there because it is considered impolite to overfly populated areas with rockets. There is absolutely no chance of them leaving Hawthorne.
    For Musk the future of SpaceX is Starship.

    Where is Starship being developed and launched? Texas.
    The "future of Musk" is NOT the topic you are (ostensibly) discussing, which is the 2020 election.

    Notion that Trumpky's inter-planetary ambitions will be critical X-factor for THIS election is pile of space poop.
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    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,782
    welshowl said:

    kle4 said:

    I know that all national identity is pretty arbitrary when you get right down to it, and ones can develop with a pseudohistorical basis, but I think you'd have to really stretch a definition to conclude Northumbrians, of any particular definition, have not been English for quite some time.
    They used to speak Welsh in Cumbria.
    They used to speak it in London.

    London is really just an English version of the Welsh Llundain.
    Hell, they used to speak it in France (according to Tacitus)
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    CatMan said:

    welshowl said:

    kle4 said:

    I know that all national identity is pretty arbitrary when you get right down to it, and ones can develop with a pseudohistorical basis, but I think you'd have to really stretch a definition to conclude Northumbrians, of any particular definition, have not been English for quite some time.
    They used to speak Welsh in Cumbria.
    They used to speak it in London.

    London is really just an English version of the Welsh Llundain.
    Hell, they used to speak it in France (according to Tacitus)
    Gaulish, as in Asterix of course.
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    CatMan said:

    welshowl said:

    kle4 said:

    I know that all national identity is pretty arbitrary when you get right down to it, and ones can develop with a pseudohistorical basis, but I think you'd have to really stretch a definition to conclude Northumbrians, of any particular definition, have not been English for quite some time.
    They used to speak Welsh in Cumbria.
    They used to speak it in London.

    London is really just an English version of the Welsh Llundain.
    Hell, they used to speak it in France (according to Tacitus)
    They still do speak it in Wales' successful colony in France.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,775

    Nigelb said:

    Well, the Allies did reach the Yalu River in autumn 1950, but by the end of the year, the Chinese intervened and pushed them south.
    Only because MacArthur was an insubordinate fool.
    In sending them there in the first place.
    My own Daddy Dearest never made it to the Yalu, but close enough - MUCH too close - with USMC and Royal Marines during Chosin Reservoir Campaign.

    Needless to say, though he was there are MacArthur's greatest military achievement - the Inchon Landing - my father was NOT a great admirer of "Dugout Doug".
    One of the most brutal fighting retreats ever, I think - terrifying just to read some of the accounts.

    I don’t understand why China is so boastful, though, bearing in mind how the North turned out compared with the South.
  • Options
    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited October 2020

    kle4 said:

    At least Corbyn never promised space owls.

    https://twitter.com/GOP/status/1319715289328766980?s=20

    Well, all very ambitious, but what's up with 2 of the 4 things being space stuff? But if Trump wants to go I am sure many will be happy for him to try.

    And just 'high' speed internet, not superhigh or megafast?
    The US's manned spaceflight infrastructure (read jobs) is almost entirely based in red states. That includes SpaceX.

    As alluded to above, for GOP-leaners we're largely talking about rural/suburban internet access which can be quite poor in areas. They'll be thankful for any increase. Super-mega-hyperfast is more a deep blue concern.
    Rather large chunks of SpaceX are in California.
    Won't be for long...
    Errrr nope. The East Coast (Florida and Texas) operations are there because it is considered impolite to overfly populated areas with rockets. There is absolutely no chance of them leaving Hawthorne.
    For Musk the future of SpaceX is Starship.

    Where is Starship being developed and launched? Texas.

    kle4 said:

    At least Corbyn never promised space owls.

    https://twitter.com/GOP/status/1319715289328766980?s=20

    Well, all very ambitious, but what's up with 2 of the 4 things being space stuff? But if Trump wants to go I am sure many will be happy for him to try.

    And just 'high' speed internet, not superhigh or megafast?
    The US's manned spaceflight infrastructure (read jobs) is almost entirely based in red states. That includes SpaceX.

    As alluded to above, for GOP-leaners we're largely talking about rural/suburban internet access which can be quite poor in areas. They'll be thankful for any increase. Super-mega-hyperfast is more a deep blue concern.
    Rather large chunks of SpaceX are in California.
    Won't be for long...
    Errrr nope. The East Coast (Florida and Texas) operations are there because it is considered impolite to overfly populated areas with rockets. There is absolutely no chance of them leaving Hawthorne.
    For Musk the future of SpaceX is Starship.

    Where is Starship being developed and launched? Texas.
    Sigh. Most rockets are launched Eastwards - to utilise the Earths spin, among other things.

    Launching Eastwards from Vandenberg would not be allowed because you are not allowed to fly rocket launches over people, in most of the world......

    And the Raptor engine is being built at... Hawthorne.
    Yes I assure you I'm very aware of that. I'm not sure how it has anything to with the fact almost all the manned spaceflight infrastructure in the US, be it NASA or SpaceX, is in red states.

    You're arguing for the sake of it.
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    Alistair said:

    I see the NYT has done one of its "man on the street regular undecided voters" pieces again where it turns out the people interviewed are GOP comms directors and sons of Trump appointed ambassadors and the like.

    In other words, folks who have GOOD reason NOT to be sold on voting for Trumpsky.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,532

    There but for the grace of God...
    That is a very high positivity rate as well.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,826
    HYUFD said:

    England was only created by combining Wessex, Northumbria and Mercia, without Northumbria there is no England
    Warwickshire, Staffordshire and Derbyshire are most definitely in England, not Northumbria. What a stupid map.
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    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,782
    welshowl said:

    CatMan said:

    welshowl said:

    kle4 said:

    I know that all national identity is pretty arbitrary when you get right down to it, and ones can develop with a pseudohistorical basis, but I think you'd have to really stretch a definition to conclude Northumbrians, of any particular definition, have not been English for quite some time.
    They used to speak Welsh in Cumbria.
    They used to speak it in London.

    London is really just an English version of the Welsh Llundain.
    Hell, they used to speak it in France (according to Tacitus)
    Gaulish, as in Asterix of course.
    Indeed. He said that the Common Brittonic language differed little from that of Gaul.
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    houndtanghoundtang Posts: 450
    This site is hilarious - right here democracy is dying on its arse; the economy is dying on its arse; jobs, lives and mental health are being destroyed; people are dying alone - their loved ones prevented from being by their sides; the government and their advisers spew out a never-ending stream of insane regulations which will inevitably lead to mass poverty... and this site is analysing the demographics of an opinion poll for an election on the other side of the Atlantic.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited October 2020

    Alistair said:

    I see the NYT has done one of its "man on the street regular undecided voters" pieces again where it turns out the people interviewed are GOP comms directors and sons of Trump appointed ambassadors and the like.

    In other words, folks who have GOOD reason NOT to be sold on voting for Trumpsky.
    Oh, they were 'undecideds' who were totally voting for Trump.

    The NYT was so embarrassed they edited the article to remove at least one subjects.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,532
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Well, the Allies did reach the Yalu River in autumn 1950, but by the end of the year, the Chinese intervened and pushed them south.
    Only because MacArthur was an insubordinate fool.
    In sending them there in the first place.
    My own Daddy Dearest never made it to the Yalu, but close enough - MUCH too close - with USMC and Royal Marines during Chosin Reservoir Campaign.

    Needless to say, though he was there are MacArthur's greatest military achievement - the Inchon Landing - my father was NOT a great admirer of "Dugout Doug".
    One of the most brutal fighting retreats ever, I think - terrifying just to read some of the accounts.

    I don’t understand why China is so boastful, though, bearing in mind how the North turned out compared with the South.
    Quite a bit of it is declaring heroic victory... *because of the appalling loses* the Chinese suffered.

    So there are two schools of thought in the Community Party on Korea

    - Must hang on to our success... North Korea
    - Offer the South support with unification (and money to do so) in return for kicking out the Americans. Turn a united Korea into their Canada.....
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    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    houndtang said:

    This site is hilarious - right here democracy is dying on its arse; the economy is dying on its arse; jobs, lives and mental health are being destroyed; people are dying alone - their loved ones prevented from being by their sides; the government and their advisers spew out a never-ending stream of insane regulations which will inevitably lead to mass poverty... and this site is analysing the demographics of an opinion poll for an election on the other side of the Atlantic.

    ...Well this is ostensibly a site about political betting. I'm aware the website name is not entirely clear on that point, but I assure you it is.

    I'm sure there are plenty of websites for doomers about.
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    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    CatMan said:

    welshowl said:

    CatMan said:

    welshowl said:

    kle4 said:

    I know that all national identity is pretty arbitrary when you get right down to it, and ones can develop with a pseudohistorical basis, but I think you'd have to really stretch a definition to conclude Northumbrians, of any particular definition, have not been English for quite some time.
    They used to speak Welsh in Cumbria.
    They used to speak it in London.

    London is really just an English version of the Welsh Llundain.
    Hell, they used to speak it in France (according to Tacitus)
    Gaulish, as in Asterix of course.
    Indeed. He said that the Common Brittonic language differed little from that of Gaul.
    Indeed he did.

    Though whether Breton had any elements of local Gaulish survival whilst being boosted by 5/6th invasions from SW Britain is a matter for debate.

    It seems Gaulish might’ve lingered on in parts of central and northern France (only just about being called “France” about then of course) till the 6th century at least.
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    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460

    There but for the grace of God...
    That is a very high positivity rate as well.
    Looks really grim. Hope it reverses for them soon.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    houndtang said:

    This site is hilarious - right here democracy is dying on its arse; the economy is dying on its arse; jobs, lives and mental health are being destroyed; people are dying alone - their loved ones prevented from being by their sides; the government and their advisers spew out a never-ending stream of insane regulations which will inevitably lead to mass poverty... and this site is analysing the demographics of an opinion poll for an election on the other side of the Atlantic.

    Welcome to Political Betting Dot Com.
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    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Well, the Allies did reach the Yalu River in autumn 1950, but by the end of the year, the Chinese intervened and pushed them south.
    Only because MacArthur was an insubordinate fool.
    In sending them there in the first place.
    My own Daddy Dearest never made it to the Yalu, but close enough - MUCH too close - with USMC and Royal Marines during Chosin Reservoir Campaign.

    Needless to say, though he was there are MacArthur's greatest military achievement - the Inchon Landing - my father was NOT a great admirer of "Dugout Doug".
    One of the most brutal fighting retreats ever, I think - terrifying just to read some of the accounts.

    I don’t understand why China is so boastful, though, bearing in mind how the North turned out compared with the South.
    Yes, the Frozen Chosin was NOT a picnic - not with 1st Maine Division (including some US Army and Royal Marines) being outnumbered 10 to 1. Only thing that saved them was

    a) caution by USMC commanders, who did NOT trust the bilge MacArthur's entourage was pumping out)

    b) fighting prowess of Marines, Americans AND Brits

    c) arctic weather conditions that hit shortly after Chinese launched their offensive, brutal for both sides (more casualties from frostbite than gunshot) but worse for the Chinese who went into battle wearing tennis shoes and cotton padded uniforms.

    As to the wider war, evidence that Mao got snookered into entering by Stalin, thereby diverting China for years AND costing her dearly in blood, treasure and time that could all have been better spent.

    BUT then Peoples Republic DID force a stalemate upon the most powerful nation on Earth AND it's allies, no small achievement.
This discussion has been closed.