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If this election follows previous ones then 10m more women will vote than men – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,169
edited October 2020 in General
imageIf this election follows previous ones then 10m more women will vote than men – politicalbetting.com

One of the features of this election which has been repeatedly observed is how poorly Trump is doing with women voters particularly those with college degrees. Four years ago that segment was mostly for Trump now its switched to Biden.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    1st. Like Biden.

    Possibly...
  • 1st. Like Biden.

    Possibly...

    Not possibly - absolute certainty
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Doesn't sound like that bad a news really, I'd have assumed it would be sooner.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    kle4 said:

    Doesn't sound like that bad a news really, I'd have assumed it would be sooner.
    All be over by Christmas...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,713

    1st. Like Biden.

    Possibly...

    Not possibly - absolute certainty
    No, there is a narrow route for Trump. If he wins though, America is done. 4 more years of the egotistical crook will do irrevocable harm.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766

    1st. Like Biden.

    Possibly...

    Not possibly - absolute certainty
    Niall Ferguson says 'hi'! :smile:
  • Foxy said:

    1st. Like Biden.

    Possibly...

    Not possibly - absolute certainty
    No, there is a narrow route for Trump. If he wins though, America is done. 4 more years of the egotistical crook will do irrevocable harm.
    I just do not see any possibility of a Trump win - thankfully
  • 1st. Like Biden.

    Possibly...

    Not possibly - absolute certainty
    Niall Ferguson says 'hi'! :smile:
    Who is he
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    A really striking difference in voting numbers. Is it something that happens here?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    OllyT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    Alistair said:

    MrEd said:

    Slightly worrying data for Biden here, I think (see also the next tweet):

    https://twitter.com/umichvoter99/status/1319656515070996480

    This is what I picked up on Ralston's site re Nevada - haven't verified the numbers yet but bad for Biden if true

    https://twitter.com/Jay44686912/status/1319651018859147264
    That's only in person early voting. Add in mail in votes and you have

    220K Dems
    145K Republicans
    Clinton won Miami-Date by 290K votes. If IPEV stays at that ratio, and the Republicans turn out more on the day, then Biden is looking at a lot of lost votes he needs to recapture
    One thing that's really weird about the US is how slow the mail service is. I'm testing a print on demand service right now for my business. A postcard was mailed - First Class - from Minneapolis to my home last Wednesday. As of end Thursday (as in end yesterday) it still hadn't arrived.
    Isn't one of the GOP's strategies this year for Trump's mate at the head of the postal service to slow down the mail whilst at the same time trying to rule out votes that were posted in time but haven't arrived before election day?
    Yes, that was one of his plans. Fortunately the postal service workers revolted against it and judges have ordered all the slowdown measures rolled back. It's not back to where it was but Biden's lead combined with multiple dropboxes and a key victory in Pennsylvania should be enough to overcome it.
    Pivot to the centre ? Pivot to facsism more like from Trump.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    kle4 said:

    A really striking difference in voting numbers. Is it something that happens here?

    There used to be no difference in America but it started diverging at the start of the 80s.
  • kle4 said:

    A really striking difference in voting numbers. Is it something that happens here?

    Back in 2012-14 there was a bit of a gender gap when it came to Scottish independence.

    Women were much more reticent to back independence than men.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,713
    kle4 said:

    Doesn't sound like that bad a news really, I'd have assumed it would be sooner.
    My fifty-something Sister in Law in the Smoke tested positive today. She is pretty careful, but probably caught via her school age daughter.

    Foxy said:

    1st. Like Biden.

    Possibly...

    Not possibly - absolute certainty
    No, there is a narrow route for Trump. If he wins though, America is done. 4 more years of the egotistical crook will do irrevocable harm.
    I just do not see any possibility of a Trump win - thankfully
    I reckon he keeps Florida. I think he has lost the Great Lakes States, but if he keeps Ohio, and Arizona, it will be pretty close.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    Here is where I see the possibility of "shy Bidens".
    Educated women in strongly Red areas.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,713

    kle4 said:

    A really striking difference in voting numbers. Is it something that happens here?

    Back in 2012-14 there was a bit of a gender gap when it came to Scottish independence.

    Women were much more reticent to back independence than men.
    One thing that I have noticed in UK polling is that Women are twice as likely as men to be undecided, but do turn out on the day, breaking more for Labour.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126

    kle4 said:

    A really striking difference in voting numbers. Is it something that happens here?

    Back in 2012-14 there was a bit of a gender gap when it came to Scottish independence.

    Women were much more reticent to back independence than men.
    I was thinking more in terms of whether significantly more women vote than men rather than differences in how they vote.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    I've just checked the Nevada court. 5 - 4 Obama/Clinton (Including the chief justice) to Reagen/Bush appointees. All 4 Reagen/Bush appointees are senior justices.
    Appeals court above is the 9th circuit which oversees California, Oregon, Washington, Arizona! (Nice one for the Dems), Hawaii and Alaska. Probably the most liberal appeals court in the whole of the USA.
    So I don't think the Nevada GOP has much chance aside from perhaps a couple of minor concessions in their moves.
  • kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    A really striking difference in voting numbers. Is it something that happens here?

    Back in 2012-14 there was a bit of a gender gap when it came to Scottish independence.

    Women were much more reticent to back independence than men.
    I was thinking more in terms of whether significantly more women vote than men rather than differences in how they vote.
    My apologies.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,713
    edited October 2020
    dixiedean said:

    Here is where I see the possibility of "shy Bidens".
    Educated women in strongly Red areas.

    I agree. Very good reason to be a shy Dem in a gun-toting redneck household.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222

    1st. Like Biden.

    Possibly...

    Not possibly - absolute certainty
    Niall Ferguson says 'hi'! :smile:
    Who is he
    A right wing historian and from time to time opinion journalist.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    edited October 2020
    Pulpstar said:

    How bad is it that you need to check who appointed a state judiciary to work out a plaintiff's chances of success ?

    But it's totally decided based on statute, precedent and legal philosphies only...

    Edit: I know it has been pointed out, as TSE has below, that who appointed who is not an absolute determinator of outcomes, but the parties clearly value getting to appoint people they consider reliable for a reason, so onthe whole it must surely bear fruit.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,670
    edited October 2020
    Pulpstar said:

    How bad is it that you need to check who appointed a state judiciary to work out a plaintiff's chances of success ?

    Very bad. I'd caution against the appointed by X President means = Y.

    John Paul Stevens and David Souter were appointed by Republican Presidents but were the most reliably liberal votes in SCOTUS.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Looking forward to a headline. Donald Trumped.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    Pulpstar said:

    How bad is it that you need to check who appointed a state judiciary to work out a plaintiff's chances of success ?

    Political judges is something anyone not from the US finds it very difficult to get their head around.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    dixiedean said:

    Here is where I see the possibility of "shy Bidens".
    Educated women in strongly Red areas.

    More than a possibility.
    The only question is how significant the numbers.
  • FPT - IF any PBers want to observe actually voting and ballot processing for this election, they can check out the webcams at King County Elections headquarters in Renton, Washington

    https://www.kingcounty.gov/depts/elections/about-us/security-and-accountability/watch-us-in-action.aspx

    Activities viewable via live cam include:

    > Election service center (where voters with issues can come in person to register, get ballots and vote)

    > Drop box sorting

    > Sorting (of all returned ballots, into batches for verification, quality control and eventual tabulation)

    > Alternative format ballot processing

    > Signature verification

    > Envelope review (for ballots that are "challenged" by election workers due mostly to missing or mismatched signatures)

    > Opening (where ballots approved from counting are taken out of envelops and inspected)

    > Ballot review (where ballots with issues such as voter corrections, stray marks, etc are processed by teams of workers)

    > Scanning and tabulation (where approved, processed ballots are scanned into tabulators, with actual votes NOT tabulated until AFTER 8pm on Election Day)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,133
    edited October 2020
    Hillary actually won women overall by a big margin of 54% to 41% in 2016 and also won white women with college degrees by a 7% margin, 51% to 44% for Trump so not actually that big a change really

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_presidential_election
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,364
    Foxy said:

    1st. Like Biden.

    Possibly...

    Not possibly - absolute certainty
    No, there is a narrow route for Trump. If he wins though, America is done. 4 more years of the egotistical crook will do irrevocable harm.
    The harm is already quite massive, with the ludicrous judge issue.

    Which means, either Congress and the Senate will have to start passing laws again - which requires a serious Democrat majority and will to do so.

    Or court packing. Which in turn means end to the fig leaf of Judicial independence and a complete Spoils Systems when the pendulum goes back the other way. As it will....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126

    FPT - IF any PBers want to observe actually voting and ballot processing for this election, they can check out the webcams at King County Elections headquarters in Renton, Washington

    https://www.kingcounty.gov/depts/elections/about-us/security-and-accountability/watch-us-in-action.aspx

    Activities viewable via live cam include:

    > Election service center (where voters with issues can come in person to register, get ballots and vote)

    > Drop box sorting

    > Sorting (of all returned ballots, into batches for verification, quality control and eventual tabulation)

    > Alternative format ballot processing

    > Signature verification

    > Envelope review (for ballots that are "challenged" by election workers due mostly to missing or mismatched signatures)

    > Opening (where ballots approved from counting are taken out of envelops and inspected)

    > Ballot review (where ballots with issues such as voter corrections, stray marks, etc are processed by teams of workers)

    > Scanning and tabulation (where approved, processed ballots are scanned into tabulators, with actual votes NOT tabulated until AFTER 8pm on Election Day)

    Worth being reminded that while we on this side of the pond do in recent times tend to denigrate many aspects of american democratic practice, they can get some things right.
  • Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    A really striking difference in voting numbers. Is it something that happens here?

    Back in 2012-14 there was a bit of a gender gap when it came to Scottish independence.

    Women were much more reticent to back independence than men.
    One thing that I have noticed in UK polling is that Women are twice as likely as men to be undecided, but do turn out on the day, breaking more for Labour.
    Evidence please.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222

    Pulpstar said:

    How bad is it that you need to check who appointed a state judiciary to work out a plaintiff's chances of success ?

    Very bad. I'd caution against the appointed by X President means = Y.

    John Paul Stevens and David Souter were appointed by Republican Presidents but were the most reliably liberal votes in SCOTUS.
    The Federal Society production line was set up to address that regrettable tendency towards unreliability. I don’t think we’ll see their like again for a very long time indeed.
  • Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    A really striking difference in voting numbers. Is it something that happens here?

    Back in 2012-14 there was a bit of a gender gap when it came to Scottish independence.

    Women were much more reticent to back independence than men.
    One thing that I have noticed in UK polling is that Women are twice as likely as men to be undecided, but do turn out on the day, breaking more for Labour.
    In polling I've seen over decades, very typical for women to be more undecided than men, whatever the jurisdiction or the election.
  • Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    How bad is it that you need to check who appointed a state judiciary to work out a plaintiff's chances of success ?

    Political judges is something anyone not from the US finds it very difficult to get their head around.
    What really scares me more than that is if you're an accused and the person who makes the call to prosecute you is an (ambitious) state attorney up for election and your trial is being supervised by a judge up for election.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,364
    Pulpstar said:

    OllyT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    Alistair said:

    MrEd said:

    Slightly worrying data for Biden here, I think (see also the next tweet):

    https://twitter.com/umichvoter99/status/1319656515070996480

    This is what I picked up on Ralston's site re Nevada - haven't verified the numbers yet but bad for Biden if true

    https://twitter.com/Jay44686912/status/1319651018859147264
    That's only in person early voting. Add in mail in votes and you have

    220K Dems
    145K Republicans
    Clinton won Miami-Date by 290K votes. If IPEV stays at that ratio, and the Republicans turn out more on the day, then Biden is looking at a lot of lost votes he needs to recapture
    One thing that's really weird about the US is how slow the mail service is. I'm testing a print on demand service right now for my business. A postcard was mailed - First Class - from Minneapolis to my home last Wednesday. As of end Thursday (as in end yesterday) it still hadn't arrived.
    Isn't one of the GOP's strategies this year for Trump's mate at the head of the postal service to slow down the mail whilst at the same time trying to rule out votes that were posted in time but haven't arrived before election day?
    Yes, that was one of his plans. Fortunately the postal service workers revolted against it and judges have ordered all the slowdown measures rolled back. It's not back to where it was but Biden's lead combined with multiple dropboxes and a key victory in Pennsylvania should be enough to overcome it.
    Pivot to the centre ? Pivot to facsism more like from Trump.
    Quite a few sorting machines got junked before the court orders went through.

    I think a chunk of the early turnout is based on stories of this happening, plus various voter suppression methods - mainly reducing voting places in Democrat areas. So people reacted to the possibility of having to vote in person and big queues on the day by voting early.
  • Mal557Mal557 Posts: 662
    Foxy said:

    1st. Like Biden.

    Possibly...

    Not possibly - absolute certainty
    No, there is a narrow route for Trump. If he wins though, America is done. 4 more years of the egotistical crook will do irrevocable harm.
    If that happens then Americans will only have themselves to blame,,, or China (if you're Donald Trump)!
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    dr_spyn said:

    Looking forward to a headline. Donald Trumped.

    Joe Outbiden.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    How bad is it that you need to check who appointed a state judiciary to work out a plaintiff's chances of success ?

    Political judges is something anyone not from the US finds it very difficult to get their head around.
    I would guess well over half the world’s population is fairly well acquainted with the concept.
    I think you might mean anyone in a liberal democracy outside of the US ?
  • Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    How bad is it that you need to check who appointed a state judiciary to work out a plaintiff's chances of success ?

    Political judges is something anyone not from the US finds it very difficult to get their head around.
    What really scares me more than that is if you're an accused and the person who makes the call to prosecute you is an (ambitious) state attorney up for election and your trial is being supervised by a judge up for election.
    Then wait for that next great horror film, "The Rudy Giuliani Story" starring (one hopes) Danny Devito.

  • rawzerrawzer Posts: 189
    Nigelb said:

    1st. Like Biden.

    Possibly...

    Not possibly - absolute certainty
    Niall Ferguson says 'hi'! :smile:
    Who is he
    A right wing historian and from time to time opinion journalist.
    Saw him at Hay festival a few years ago, he was actually brilliant, but he did need a couple of people to help carry his ego on stage
  • dr_spyn said:

    Looking forward to a headline. Donald Trumped.

    Trump Humped
  • Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    A really striking difference in voting numbers. Is it something that happens here?

    Back in 2012-14 there was a bit of a gender gap when it came to Scottish independence.

    Women were much more reticent to back independence than men.
    One thing that I have noticed in UK polling is that Women are twice as likely as men to be undecided, but do turn out on the day, breaking more for Labour.
    Evidence please.
    The most recent Opinium, see tab V003.

    Don't knows

    Male 94 (12% of the male sample)

    Female 191 (23% of the female sample.

    https://www.opinium.com/resource-center/voting-intention-8th-october-2020/
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,929
    edited October 2020

    Pulpstar said:

    How bad is it that you need to check who appointed a state judiciary to work out a plaintiff's chances of success ?

    Very bad. I'd caution against the appointed by X President means = Y.

    John Paul Stevens and David Souter were appointed by Republican Presidents but were the most reliably liberal votes in SCOTUS.
    Aiui hyperpartisan judges is a very recent phenomenon due to Republicans and not matched by the Democrats. President Trump alluded to this earlier in the campaign, that (Obama and) Sleepy Joe had left more than a hundred judicial vacancies for Trump to fill. There was also something about it in one of the never-Trump Republican books from 2017 or thereabouts.
  • dr_spyn said:

    Looking forward to a headline. Donald Trumped.

    I've got that, and 'It's Joe, Bye Don!'

    I've always got a few if Trump were to win.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,133
    edited October 2020
    Foxy said:

    1st. Like Biden.

    Possibly...

    Not possibly - absolute certainty
    No, there is a narrow route for Trump. If he wins though, America is done. 4 more years of the egotistical crook will do irrevocable harm.
    No it isn't, America is still the largest economy with the largest military on earth, Trump's win would be no more different than other populist nationalists who have been elected to lead their nations at present, from Bolsonaro in Brazil to Modi in India, to Netanyahu in Israel to Duda in Poland and Putin in Russia or Duherte in the Philippinnes and maybe in a few years Salvini in Italy.

    In fact some on here would also put Boris in that bracket in the UK too
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    edited October 2020

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    How bad is it that you need to check who appointed a state judiciary to work out a plaintiff's chances of success ?

    Political judges is something anyone not from the US finds it very difficult to get their head around.
    What really scares me more than that is if you're an accused and the person who makes the call to prosecute you is an (ambitious) state attorney up for election and your trial is being supervised by a judge up for election.
    TBH that's not the real scandal about the US judicial system. What really stinks is that 94% of state, and 97% of federal, cases don't go to full trial but are settled by plea bargain.

    The usual MO of the prosecution is to begin by throwing the book at the accused and charging them with everything they can possibly think of meaning the accused is facing often quite literally the rest of their life in jail, if all the charges are proved. Then they offer a plea bargain to a much, much reduced set of charges with a relatively small penalty.

    Most defendants take the bargain: to not to, you'd have to be supremely confident that the DA's case won't stand up, and that your lawyer can make that so. If you're too poor to afford a lawyer good enough to give you that confidence, which the vast majority of those accused are, then it becomes a no-brainer.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,670
    edited October 2020
    rpjs said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    How bad is it that you need to check who appointed a state judiciary to work out a plaintiff's chances of success ?

    Political judges is something anyone not from the US finds it very difficult to get their head around.
    What really scares me more than that is if you're an accused and the person who makes the call to prosecute you is an (ambitious) state attorney up for election and your trial is being supervised by a judge up for election.
    TBH that's not the real scandal about the US judicial system. What really stinks is that 94% of state, and 97% of federal cases don't go to full trial but are settled by plea bargain.

    The usual MO of the prosecution is to begin by throwing the book at the accused and charging them with everything they can possibly think of meaning the accused is facing often quite literally the rest of their life in jail, if all the charges are proved. Then they offer a plea bargain to a much, much reduced set of charges with a relatively small penalty.

    Most defendants take the bargain: you'd have to be supremely confident that the DA's case won't stand up, and that your lawyer can make that so. If you're too poor to afford a lawyer good enough to give you that confidence, which the vast majority of those accused are, then it becomes a no-brainer.
    That's a scandal too.

    There's also the scandal of bail in America.

    John Oliver once did a segment on it, and it seemed disproportionately favour the wealthy, and discriminate against the poor and ethnic minorities.

    The prison service in America seems to employ people who think prison rape is just one of those things that happen to bad people, and anyone in prison is a bad person.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,133
    Add the undecideds (or shy Trumps depending on your perspective) on the Siena poll to Trump and you get a national popular vote total of Biden 50% and Trump 47% so not that different to Rasmussen or IBID/TIPP after all
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    1st. Like Biden.

    Possibly...

    Not possibly - absolute certainty
    No, there is a narrow route for Trump. If he wins though, America is done. 4 more years of the egotistical crook will do irrevocable harm.
    No it isn't, America is still the largest economy with the largest military on earth, Trump's win would be no more different than other populist nationalists who have been elected to lead their nations at present, from Bolsonaro in Brazil to Modi in India, to Netanyahu in Israel to Duda in Poland and Putin in Russia or Duherte in the Philippinnes and maybe in a few years Salvini in Italy.

    In fact some on here would also put Boris in that bracket in the UK too
    I don’t the Foxy was referring to the size of its economy, so much as the democratic experiment of the last two and a half centuries.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    Interesting https://twitter.com/zachdespart/status/1319715824538669060 - I'd be surprised if the phenomenon was limited to Harris too.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    kle4 said:

    FPT - IF any PBers want to observe actually voting and ballot processing for this election, they can check out the webcams at King County Elections headquarters in Renton, Washington

    https://www.kingcounty.gov/depts/elections/about-us/security-and-accountability/watch-us-in-action.aspx

    Activities viewable via live cam include:

    > Election service center (where voters with issues can come in person to register, get ballots and vote)

    > Drop box sorting

    > Sorting (of all returned ballots, into batches for verification, quality control and eventual tabulation)

    > Alternative format ballot processing

    > Signature verification

    > Envelope review (for ballots that are "challenged" by election workers due mostly to missing or mismatched signatures)

    > Opening (where ballots approved from counting are taken out of envelops and inspected)

    > Ballot review (where ballots with issues such as voter corrections, stray marks, etc are processed by teams of workers)

    > Scanning and tabulation (where approved, processed ballots are scanned into tabulators, with actual votes NOT tabulated until AFTER 8pm on Election Day)

    Worth being reminded that while we on this side of the pond do in recent times tend to denigrate many aspects of american democratic practice, they can get some things right.
    The real difference is that America is much larger, and much, much more decentralized than the UK. There will always be some jurisdictions here that could give the likes of the Liberian election authorities of 1927 (the one won by a vote of 16x the registered electorate) a run for its money, and others that make Switzerland look a bit slapdash.
  • HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    1st. Like Biden.

    Possibly...

    Not possibly - absolute certainty
    No, there is a narrow route for Trump. If he wins though, America is done. 4 more years of the egotistical crook will do irrevocable harm.
    No it isn't, America is still the largest economy with the largest military on earth, Trump's win would be no more different than other populist nationalists who have been elected to lead their nations at present, from Bolsonaro in Brazil to Modi in India, to Netanyahu in Israel to Duda in Poland and Putin in Russia or Duherte in the Philippinnes and maybe in a few years Salvini in Italy.

    In fact some on here would also put Boris in that bracket in the UK too
    Boris Johnson, posing as a populist. Would a populist really want to starve northern kids so they'll fit up chimneys? (To be fair to Boris, this reeks of Gove & Cummings who have form taking on Jamie Oliver 10 years ago over school dinners.)
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    kle4 said:

    A really striking difference in voting numbers. Is it something that happens here?

    A little bit but on nothing like this scale.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,133
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    1st. Like Biden.

    Possibly...

    Not possibly - absolute certainty
    No, there is a narrow route for Trump. If he wins though, America is done. 4 more years of the egotistical crook will do irrevocable harm.
    No it isn't, America is still the largest economy with the largest military on earth, Trump's win would be no more different than other populist nationalists who have been elected to lead their nations at present, from Bolsonaro in Brazil to Modi in India, to Netanyahu in Israel to Duda in Poland and Putin in Russia or Duherte in the Philippinnes and maybe in a few years Salvini in Italy.

    In fact some on here would also put Boris in that bracket in the UK too
    I don’t the Foxy was referring to the size of its economy, so much as the democratic experiment of the last two and a half centuries.
    Not sure that follows either, unless democracy only works if it produces results that appease educated liberals
  • Pulpstar said:

    How bad is it that you need to check who appointed a state judiciary to work out a plaintiff's chances of success ?

    Very bad. I'd caution against the appointed by X President means = Y.

    John Paul Stevens and David Souter were appointed by Republican Presidents but were the most reliably liberal votes in SCOTUS.
    Aiui hyperpartisan judges is a very recent phenomenon due to Republicans and not matched by the Democrats. President Trump alluded to this earlier in the campaign, that (Obama and) Sleepy Joe had left more than a hundred judicial vacancies for Trump to fill. There was also something about it in one of the never-Trump Republican books from 2017 or thereabouts.
    Perhaps fact that GOPers running US Senate during final two years of Obama presidency had something to do with this situation?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,364

    Pulpstar said:

    How bad is it that you need to check who appointed a state judiciary to work out a plaintiff's chances of success ?

    Very bad. I'd caution against the appointed by X President means = Y.

    John Paul Stevens and David Souter were appointed by Republican Presidents but were the most reliably liberal votes in SCOTUS.
    Aiui hyperpartisan judges is a very recent phenomenon due to Republicans and not matched by the Democrats. President Trump alluded to this earlier in the campaign, that (Obama and) Sleepy Joe had left more than a hundred judicial vacancies for Trump to fill. There was also something about it in one of the never-Trump Republican books from 2017 or thereabouts.
    The vacancies were create of a dedicated filibustering campaign against any and all Obama administration appointments by the Republicans.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,133

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    1st. Like Biden.

    Possibly...

    Not possibly - absolute certainty
    No, there is a narrow route for Trump. If he wins though, America is done. 4 more years of the egotistical crook will do irrevocable harm.
    No it isn't, America is still the largest economy with the largest military on earth, Trump's win would be no more different than other populist nationalists who have been elected to lead their nations at present, from Bolsonaro in Brazil to Modi in India, to Netanyahu in Israel to Duda in Poland and Putin in Russia or Duherte in the Philippinnes and maybe in a few years Salvini in Italy.

    In fact some on here would also put Boris in that bracket in the UK too
    Boris Johnson, posing as a populist. Would a populist really want to starve northern kids so they'll fit up chimneys? (To be fair to Boris, this reeks of Gove & Cummings who have form taking on Jamie Oliver 10 years ago over school dinners.)
    On that you maybe right, even Farage has had a go at Boris over free school meals

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1319172209403961346?s=20
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,713

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    A really striking difference in voting numbers. Is it something that happens here?

    Back in 2012-14 there was a bit of a gender gap when it came to Scottish independence.

    Women were much more reticent to back independence than men.
    One thing that I have noticed in UK polling is that Women are twice as likely as men to be undecided, but do turn out on the day, breaking more for Labour.
    Evidence please.
    Cross tabs on yougov polls passim.

    For example:

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2020/10/16/voting-intention-con-39-lab-38-14-15-oct

    20% of females vs 12% of men were "don't knows" in voting intention, but equal on certainty to vote, and females were more likely to break for SKS to BJ.

    Women are basically less dogmatic in their views IMO.
  • HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    1st. Like Biden.

    Possibly...

    Not possibly - absolute certainty
    No, there is a narrow route for Trump. If he wins though, America is done. 4 more years of the egotistical crook will do irrevocable harm.
    No it isn't, America is still the largest economy with the largest military on earth, Trump's win would be no more different than other populist nationalists who have been elected to lead their nations at present, from Bolsonaro in Brazil to Modi in India, to Netanyahu in Israel to Duda in Poland and Putin in Russia or Duherte in the Philippinnes and maybe in a few years Salvini in Italy.

    In fact some on here would also put Boris in that bracket in the UK too
    "Trump's win would be no more different than other populist nationalists who have been elected to lead their nations . . ."

    Sorry, but THAT is a total crock of shit.

    Because America is NOT like other nations. And NOT just because it "is still the largest economy with the largest military on earth".
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    A really striking difference in voting numbers. Is it something that happens here?

    Back in 2012-14 there was a bit of a gender gap when it came to Scottish independence.

    Women were much more reticent to back independence than men.
    One thing that I have noticed in UK polling is that Women are twice as likely as men to be undecided, but do turn out on the day, breaking more for Labour.
    In polling I've seen over decades, very typical for women to be more undecided than men, whatever the jurisdiction or the election.
    The tendency to see parties akin to sports teams that you support come what may is perhaps one with a gender bias to it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222

    rpjs said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    How bad is it that you need to check who appointed a state judiciary to work out a plaintiff's chances of success ?

    Political judges is something anyone not from the US finds it very difficult to get their head around.
    What really scares me more than that is if you're an accused and the person who makes the call to prosecute you is an (ambitious) state attorney up for election and your trial is being supervised by a judge up for election.
    TBH that's not the real scandal about the US judicial system. What really stinks is that 94% of state, and 97% of federal cases don't go to full trial but are settled by plea bargain.

    The usual MO of the prosecution is to begin by throwing the book at the accused and charging them with everything they can possibly think of meaning the accused is facing often quite literally the rest of their life in jail, if all the charges are proved. Then they offer a plea bargain to a much, much reduced set of charges with a relatively small penalty.

    Most defendants take the bargain: you'd have to be supremely confident that the DA's case won't stand up, and that your lawyer can make that so. If you're too poor to afford a lawyer good enough to give you that confidence, which the vast majority of those accused are, then it becomes a no-brainer.
    That's a scandal too.

    There's also the scandal of bail in America.

    John Oliver once did a segment on it, and it seemed disproportionately favour the wealthy, and discriminate against the poor and ethnic minorities.

    The prison service in America seems to employ people who think prison rape is just one of those things that happen to bad people, and anyone in prison is a bad person.
    And the judiciary appear to hold that the authorities have no real duty of care towards inmates in preventing such rapes:
    https://www.salon.com/2020/10/16/watchdog-group-accuses-amy-coney-barrett-of-unconscionable-cruelty-in-teen-rape-case/
  • Nigelb said:

    1st. Like Biden.

    Possibly...

    Not possibly - absolute certainty
    Niall Ferguson says 'hi'! :smile:
    Who is he
    A right wing historian and from time to time opinion journalist.
    Thanks but he is not on my radar
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    1st. Like Biden.

    Possibly...

    Not possibly - absolute certainty
    No, there is a narrow route for Trump. If he wins though, America is done. 4 more years of the egotistical crook will do irrevocable harm.
    No it isn't, America is still the largest economy with the largest military on earth, Trump's win would be no more different than other populist nationalists who have been elected to lead their nations at present, from Bolsonaro in Brazil to Modi in India, to Netanyahu in Israel to Duda in Poland and Putin in Russia or Duherte in the Philippinnes and maybe in a few years Salvini in Italy.

    In fact some on here would also put Boris in that bracket in the UK too
    Boris Johnson, posing as a populist. Would a populist really want to starve northern kids so they'll fit up chimneys? (To be fair to Boris, this reeks of Gove & Cummings who have form taking on Jamie Oliver 10 years ago over school dinners.)
    On that you maybe right, even Farage has had a go at Boris over free school meals

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1319172209403961346?s=20
    Perhaps the obvious solution is to pay pubs and cafes to provide free school meals in holidays as a takeaway service?

    No, for once I am not joking.
  • https://twitter.com/AngelaRayner/status/1319698900069076994

    Presumably Tories won’t ask for Ben to apologise?
  • dr_spyn said:

    Looking forward to a headline. Donald Trumped.

    Trump Humped
    Bye Bye Biden
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    Nigelb said:

    1st. Like Biden.

    Possibly...

    Not possibly - absolute certainty
    Niall Ferguson says 'hi'! :smile:
    Who is he
    A right wing historian and from time to time opinion journalist.
    Thanks but he is not on my radar
    You’re not missing much. Man’s an arrogant twat.

    It’s generally believed in academia that he hasn’t written anything since his PhD as he forces his research assistants to write under his name.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    edited October 2020
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    1st. Like Biden.

    Possibly...

    Not possibly - absolute certainty
    No, there is a narrow route for Trump. If he wins though, America is done. 4 more years of the egotistical crook will do irrevocable harm.
    No it isn't, America is still the largest economy with the largest military on earth, Trump's win would be no more different than other populist nationalists who have been elected to lead their nations at present, from Bolsonaro in Brazil to Modi in India, to Netanyahu in Israel to Duda in Poland and Putin in Russia or Duherte in the Philippinnes and maybe in a few years Salvini in Italy.

    In fact some on here would also put Boris in that bracket in the UK too
    I don’t the Foxy was referring to the size of its economy, so much as the democratic experiment of the last two and a half centuries.
    Not sure that follows either, unless democracy only works if it produces results that appease educated liberals
    I don’t think that was his point, either.
    If you believe a re-elected Trump would pose no threat to the constitution in his second term of office, then we’ll have to agree to differ.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,133
    edited October 2020

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    1st. Like Biden.

    Possibly...

    Not possibly - absolute certainty
    No, there is a narrow route for Trump. If he wins though, America is done. 4 more years of the egotistical crook will do irrevocable harm.
    No it isn't, America is still the largest economy with the largest military on earth, Trump's win would be no more different than other populist nationalists who have been elected to lead their nations at present, from Bolsonaro in Brazil to Modi in India, to Netanyahu in Israel to Duda in Poland and Putin in Russia or Duherte in the Philippinnes and maybe in a few years Salvini in Italy.

    In fact some on here would also put Boris in that bracket in the UK too
    "Trump's win would be no more different than other populist nationalists who have been elected to lead their nations . . ."

    Sorry, but THAT is a total crock of shit.

    Because America is NOT like other nations. And NOT just because it "is still the largest economy with the largest military on earth".
    It is, America is no longer some sort of utopia to which the rest of the democratic and free world looks for leadership, in fact arguably over recent years Merkel's Germany has ironically taken over that role
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,713
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    1st. Like Biden.

    Possibly...

    Not possibly - absolute certainty
    No, there is a narrow route for Trump. If he wins though, America is done. 4 more years of the egotistical crook will do irrevocable harm.
    No it isn't, America is still the largest economy with the largest military on earth, Trump's win would be no more different than other populist nationalists who have been elected to lead their nations at present, from Bolsonaro in Brazil to Modi in India, to Netanyahu in Israel to Duda in Poland and Putin in Russia or Duherte in the Philippinnes and maybe in a few years Salvini in Italy.

    In fact some on here would also put Boris in that bracket in the UK too
    I don’t the Foxy was referring to the size of its economy, so much as the democratic experiment of the last two and a half centuries.
    Yes. Abuse of process on a Zimbabwean scale winning an election (though almost certainly losing the Popular Vote) is not something that can revert to normal speedily.

    It is not a matter of right vs left. I don't think Romney would have done so much damage.
  • PB Tories no comment at all, I wonder how quick they would be on it if it was a Labour MP
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,934

    PB Tories no comment at all, I wonder how quick they would be on it if it was a Labour MP

    Sorry, what do we need to comment on? I didn't get the memo.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    RobD said:

    PB Tories no comment at all, I wonder how quick they would be on it if it was a Labour MP

    Sorry, what do we need to comment on? I didn't get the memo.
    Some irrelevant balls, no doubt.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102
    edited October 2020
    dr_spyn said:
    Wales FM - chaotic and all at sea

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1319705156938829826?s=09

    And the community facebook page is something Drakeford should avoid
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    With that latest Siena College/NYT Montana Poll the Nightmare scenario becomes ever more plausible.

    Trump won Montana by 21 points. The Siena poll puts Biden with 6. On UNS Biden should only be within 12.

    If Trump wins it will be with Biden coming pointlessly close in numerous Deep Red states.
  • Pulpstar said:

    How bad is it that you need to check who appointed a state judiciary to work out a plaintiff's chances of success ?

    Very bad. I'd caution against the appointed by X President means = Y.

    John Paul Stevens and David Souter were appointed by Republican Presidents but were the most reliably liberal votes in SCOTUS.
    Aiui hyperpartisan judges is a very recent phenomenon due to Republicans and not matched by the Democrats. President Trump alluded to this earlier in the campaign, that (Obama and) Sleepy Joe had left more than a hundred judicial vacancies for Trump to fill. There was also something about it in one of the never-Trump Republican books from 2017 or thereabouts.
    Perhaps fact that GOPers running US Senate during final two years of Obama presidency had something to do with this situation?
    I'm sure President Trump would not seek to mislead anyone but in any case, the point is clear about appointing partisans to the bench.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,133
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    1st. Like Biden.

    Possibly...

    Not possibly - absolute certainty
    No, there is a narrow route for Trump. If he wins though, America is done. 4 more years of the egotistical crook will do irrevocable harm.
    No it isn't, America is still the largest economy with the largest military on earth, Trump's win would be no more different than other populist nationalists who have been elected to lead their nations at present, from Bolsonaro in Brazil to Modi in India, to Netanyahu in Israel to Duda in Poland and Putin in Russia or Duherte in the Philippinnes and maybe in a few years Salvini in Italy.

    In fact some on here would also put Boris in that bracket in the UK too
    I don’t the Foxy was referring to the size of its economy, so much as the democratic experiment of the last two and a half centuries.
    Not sure that follows either, unless democracy only works if it produces results that appease educated liberals
    I don’t think that was his point, either.
    If you believe a re-elected Trump would pose no threat to the constitution in his second term of office, then we’ll have to agree to differ.
    The separation of powers by the very nature of the US constitution gives the US President even with a big election win fewer powers than a UK PM with a big majority in the Commons
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,934
    You can see what the deleted tweet was if you are interested. She was expressing sympathy for victims of a crime, which I guess is currently in court.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    In a race to the bottom, Angela Rayner wins by a short head.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,133
    edited October 2020
    Alistair said:

    With that latest Siena College/NYT Montana Poll the Nightmare scenario becomes ever more plausible.

    Trump won Montana by 21 points. The Siena poll puts Biden with 6. On UNS Biden should only be within 12.

    If Trump wins it will be with Biden coming pointlessly close in numerous Deep Red states.

    Combined with landslide Biden wins in California and New York and a closer result in Texas while Trump scrapes home in Michigan, Florida, Iowa and Arizona and North Carolina to narrowly win the EC even despite being 3-4% behind Biden in the national popular vote.

    Add the 'undecideds' with Siena to Trump and he would indeed be just 3% behind Biden nationally, within range of a narrow EC victory
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    PB Tories no comment at all, I wonder how quick they would be on it if it was a Labour MP

    First, I don't think there are any PB Tories any more. Secondly, nobody knows what this is about and you are not allowed to tell us. Thirdly, what the story is truly about is the pompous idiocy of the jury system. OT1H the randomers on the jury are supposed to have the intelligence, integrity, independence and soundness of judgment to convict defendants, or not, on charges which can lead to life imprisonment. OTO, if we have an instance of Priti being a twat on twitter, the option of saying "You probably never saw this but if you did it's just Priti being a twat on twitter, ignore it and carry on" is not available, because it seems jurors lack the intelligence, integrity, independence and soundness of judgment to understand and follow that advice. So which is it?
  • PB Tories no comment at all, I wonder how quick they would be on it if it was a Labour MP

    Its priced-in mate. Mind you, for red wall Labour to Tory converts it must be something of a wake up call
  • RobD said:

    You can see what the deleted tweet was if you are interested. She was expressing sympathy for victims of a crime, which I guess is currently in court.
    Well it would be amusing to see Priti Patel found guilty of contempt of court and given the full Tommy Robinson experience.

    Dave was right, too many tweets do make a twat.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    PB Tories no comment at all, I wonder how quick they would be on it if it was a Labour MP

    First, I don't think there are any PB Tories any more. Secondly, nobody knows what this is about and you are not allowed to tell us. Thirdly, what the story is truly about is the pompous idiocy of the jury system. OT1H the randomers on the jury are supposed to have the intelligence, integrity, independence and soundness of judgment to convict defendants, or not, on charges which can lead to life imprisonment. OTO, if we have an instance of Priti being a twat on twitter, the option of saying "You probably never saw this but if you did it's just Priti being a twat on twitter, ignore it and carry on" is not available, because it seems jurors lack the intelligence, integrity, independence and soundness of judgment to understand and follow that advice. So which is it?
    Imagine Dianne Abbott had said the same thing. Would you be saying the same thing, of course not.

    And no more PB Tories? Hahahahaha
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    1st. Like Biden.

    Possibly...

    Not possibly - absolute certainty
    No, there is a narrow route for Trump. If he wins though, America is done. 4 more years of the egotistical crook will do irrevocable harm.
    No it isn't, America is still the largest economy with the largest military on earth, Trump's win would be no more different than other populist nationalists who have been elected to lead their nations at present, from Bolsonaro in Brazil to Modi in India, to Netanyahu in Israel to Duda in Poland and Putin in Russia or Duherte in the Philippinnes and maybe in a few years Salvini in Italy.

    In fact some on here would also put Boris in that bracket in the UK too
    "Trump's win would be no more different than other populist nationalists who have been elected to lead their nations . . ."

    Sorry, but THAT is a total crock of shit.

    Because America is NOT like other nations. And NOT just because it "is still the largest economy with the largest military on earth".
    It is, America is no longer some sort of utopia to which the rest of the democratic and free world looks for leadership, in fact arguably over recent years Merkel's Germany has ironically taken over that role
    Marvellous to see such a magnificent example of Britsplaining the US to an American in the wild!
  • Have just seen what Patel tweeted. Hahahahahaha - she really is an utter moron.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,713
    FFS, move that border to the Trent. We are in Mercia...
  • Mal557Mal557 Posts: 662
    Alistair said:

    With that latest Siena College/NYT Montana Poll the Nightmare scenario becomes ever more plausible.

    Trump won Montana by 21 points. The Siena poll puts Biden with 6. On UNS Biden should only be within 12.

    If Trump wins it will be with Biden coming pointlessly close in numerous Deep Red states.

    This is my main concern in regards the National Vote vs the State Voting. That Biden is getting closer in states that dont matter and hence the high National Poll lead. Getting closer in Texas, Georgia, Montana and even Alaska isnt going to help him much.

    I also noticed a couple of new polls on 538 from either low rated or non rated pollsters but all the same very favourable to Trump

    Basswood Research (rated B/C) have Arizona a tie (though the poll is from early Oct)
    Zia Poll (rated C/D but much more recent polling) have Trump +4 in Michigan

    So though the trend's the friend rather than odd polls thats now two more polling companies adding to the narrative being built by Trafalgar and Rasmussen. (and IBD to a lesser extent)


  • Have just seen what Patel tweeted. Hahahahahaha - she really is an utter moron.

    PB Tories already ignored it. Imagine if Dianne Abbott had tweeted the same
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,133
    England was only created by combining Wessex, Northumbria and Mercia, without Northumbria there is no England
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    PB Tories no comment at all, I wonder how quick they would be on it if it was a Labour MP

    First, I don't think there are any PB Tories any more. Secondly, nobody knows what this is about and you are not allowed to tell us. Thirdly, what the story is truly about is the pompous idiocy of the jury system. OT1H the randomers on the jury are supposed to have the intelligence, integrity, independence and soundness of judgment to convict defendants, or not, on charges which can lead to life imprisonment. OTO, if we have an instance of Priti being a twat on twitter, the option of saying "You probably never saw this but if you did it's just Priti being a twat on twitter, ignore it and carry on" is not available, because it seems jurors lack the intelligence, integrity, independence and soundness of judgment to understand and follow that advice. So which is it?
    Imagine Dianne Abbott had said the same thing. Would you be saying the same thing, of course not.

    And no more PB Tories? Hahahahaha
    I don't know what "the same thing" is, you absolute beneficiary of my unwavering policy of never in any circumstances calling other people morons on the internet.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,670
    edited October 2020

    Have just seen what Patel tweeted. Hahahahahaha - she really is an utter moron.

    PB Tories already ignored it. Imagine if Dianne Abbott had tweeted the same
    It's not ignoring it, it's more out of respect for Mike, PBers as a general rule err on the side of caution when it comes to something that might get Mike into trouble.

    See how PB as a general rule avoided the Alex Salmond stuff from the moment he was charged until the actual trial.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    "You're Welsh and you know you are"

    Sung by Wolves supporters to Shrewsbury Town supporters in the FA Cup last season.

    Turns out they really are.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    edited October 2020
    Just so everyone knows, there's an absolute deluge of low quality blatantly partisan republican polling being released right now.

    I'm not talking about lean R respectable pollsters such as St Pete, HarrisX, IBD and even Rasmussen.

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1319725703584251904

    (Highly likely biased) fieldwork 3 fucking weeks ago !
  • IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    A really striking difference in voting numbers. Is it something that happens here?

    Back in 2012-14 there was a bit of a gender gap when it came to Scottish independence.

    Women were much more reticent to back independence than men.
    One thing that I have noticed in UK polling is that Women are twice as likely as men to be undecided, but do turn out on the day, breaking more for Labour.
    In polling I've seen over decades, very typical for women to be more undecided than men, whatever the jurisdiction or the election.
    The tendency to see parties akin to sports teams that you support come what may is perhaps one with a gender bias to it.
    Interesting point, though do NOT think that is real X factor in this particular gender gap, as it also occurs in less- or totally non-partisan elections.

    AND based on my own observations, think increasing numbers of women (at least in US) are sports fans AND loyal to their favorite teams.

    One small point of evidence: check out King Co Elections webcam for their Election Services Center, which directly assists voters in person. One of the workers helping voters is wearing her Seattle Seahawks jersey.

    For today is Blue Friday for "the 12s" before this Sunday's NFL game between Seattle (5-0) and Arizona Cardinals (4-2)

    Go Hawks!
This discussion has been closed.