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As we go into the final WH2020 debate Biden edges up further in the betting – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,127
edited October 2020 in General
imageAs we go into the final WH2020 debate Biden edges up further in the betting – politicalbetting.com

Overnight there is the last in the programme of TV debates between Trump and Biden. There were going to be three of them but Trump would not agree to the terms set out by the independent debates commission which meant second one did not take place.

Read the full story here

«13

Comments

  • Are Cornish pasties essential items? What about crisps? nuts? It says no clothes, but what if I am homeless and freezing, are they banned from getting a jumper? You could be kill people. I have an autistic kid, they can't survive without pegga pig, it is totally unjust that if they were to lose it in the street, I couldn't pop into Tesco's and get a new one.

    The Welsh government should be dragged over the coals for this nonsense. It is just batshit crazy to have Tesco's not able to sell stuff. If Boris government had proposed this, the media would eat him alive, day in day out, mocking what exactly is essential item, rammed full of edge cases where somebody relies on some product from Tesco that is now banned from selling.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,824

    Are Cornish pasties essential items? What about crisps? nuts? It says no clothes, but what if I am homeless and freezing, are they banned from getting a jumper? You could be kill people. I have an autistic kid, they can't survive without pegga pig, it is totally unjust that if they were to lose it in the street, I couldn't pop into Tesco's and get a new one.

    The Welsh government should be dragged over the coals for this nonsense. It is just batshit crazy to have Tesco's not able to sell stuff. If Boris government had proposed this, the media would eat him alive, day in day out, mocking what exactly is essential item, rammed full of edge cases where somebody relies on some product from Tesco that is now banned from selling.

    I'm surprised he even has the power to enact such sweeping restrictions on what businesses can and can't sell.
  • There is no precise list of non-essential goods in the law coming into force on Friday...

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-politics-54648194

    We think Team Boris is useless, but Team Twat over in Wales....
  • Roy_G_BivRoy_G_Biv Posts: 998

    Are Cornish pasties essential items? What about crisps? nuts? It says no clothes, but what if I am homeless and freezing, are they banned from getting a jumper? You could be kill people. I have an autistic kid, they can't survive without pegga pig, it is totally unjust that if they were to lose it in the street, I couldn't pop into Tesco's and get a new one.

    The Welsh government should be dragged over the coals for this nonsense. It is just batshit crazy to have Tesco's not able to sell stuff. If Boris government had proposed this, the media would eat him alive, day in day out, mocking what exactly is essential item, rammed full of edge cases where somebody relies on some product from Tesco that is now banned from selling.

    So you're on the fence about this?
  • Roy_G_Biv said:

    Are Cornish pasties essential items? What about crisps? nuts? It says no clothes, but what if I am homeless and freezing, are they banned from getting a jumper? You could be kill people. I have an autistic kid, they can't survive without pegga pig, it is totally unjust that if they were to lose it in the street, I couldn't pop into Tesco's and get a new one.

    The Welsh government should be dragged over the coals for this nonsense. It is just batshit crazy to have Tesco's not able to sell stuff. If Boris government had proposed this, the media would eat him alive, day in day out, mocking what exactly is essential item, rammed full of edge cases where somebody relies on some product from Tesco that is now banned from selling.

    So you're on the fence about this?
    Its f##king mental is what it is.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401
    https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1319382548229681152

    We on PB would have to discuss pizza and newt paintings all day if there was no polling.
  • FPT: @isam the first lockdown worked, it got cases and R down.

    We need the same again now the Tories have cocked it up so poorly.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    Surely the Donald’s last chance tonight and he will come out swinging. Biden just needs to remain cool, vaguely coherent and sane.

    Should be entertaining but past my bed time.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,455
    edited October 2020

    https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1319382548229681152

    We on PB would have to discuss pizza and newt paintings all day if there was no polling.

    We keep hearing this, after they f##ked up their predictions for the UK.....but they are a bit like MLM marketing schemes, they get busted for selling dodgy products and and somehow they still exist years later this time promising to sell only good s##t.
  • Well done Mark Drakeford on taking decisive action.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,455
    edited October 2020

    Well done Mark Drakeford on taking decisive action.

    Its your inner Corbyn fanboy coming on...oh look mummy, we can only potatoes this week in Tescos...put that strawberry down, that's not to supposed to be on the shelves, its not an essential item....but I've never seen a strawberry before.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    edited October 2020

    https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1319382548229681152

    We on PB would have to discuss pizza and newt paintings all day if there was no polling.

    If Trump wins again, the future of the US polling industry is not top of my list of concerns.

    (Or indeed my partially hedged betting losses.)
  • Well done Mark Drakeford on taking decisive action.

    Its your inner Corbyn fanboy coming on...oh look mummy, we can only potatoes this week in Tescos...but that strawberry down, that's not to supposed to be on the shelves, its not an essential item....but I've never seen a strawberry before.
    If Johnson announced a lockdown tomorrow he'd get full support from me.
  • Well done Mark Drakeford on taking decisive action.

    Its your inner Corbyn fanboy coming on...oh look mummy, we can only potatoes this week in Tescos...but that strawberry down, that's not to supposed to be on the shelves, its not an essential item....but I've never seen a strawberry before.
    If Johnson announced a lockdown tomorrow he'd get full support from me.
    He wont
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706

    FPT: @isam the first lockdown worked, it got cases and R down.

    We need the same again now the Tories have cocked it up so poorly.

    Yeah, them and every other government in the world. Or we may just have a pandemic that will inevitably return every time we try anything like normal. What do you think?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,455
    edited October 2020

    Well done Mark Drakeford on taking decisive action.

    Its your inner Corbyn fanboy coming on...oh look mummy, we can only potatoes this week in Tescos...but that strawberry down, that's not to supposed to be on the shelves, its not an essential item....but I've never seen a strawberry before.
    If Johnson announced a lockdown tomorrow he'd get full support from me.
    Its one thing to announce a lockdown, another to start ordering Tesco's what they can and can't sell.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,824

    Well done Mark Drakeford on taking decisive action.

    Its your inner Corbyn fanboy coming on...oh look mummy, we can only potatoes this week in Tescos...but that strawberry down, that's not to supposed to be on the shelves, its not an essential item....but I've never seen a strawberry before.
    If Johnson announced a lockdown tomorrow he'd get full support from me.
    You did instantly dismiss criticisms of this as "cos labour bad", despite the fact there were clear differences to the restrictions imposed last time nationwide and what is being proposed now.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited October 2020

    FPT: @isam the first lockdown worked, it got cases and R down.

    We need the same again now the Tories have cocked it up so poorly.

    Yes it worked so well people think we apparently need another one... then another, then another... then if we aren’t all dead, the country will be skint. What a life

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    Are Cornish pasties essential items? What about crisps? nuts? It says no clothes, but what if I am homeless and freezing, are they banned from getting a jumper? You could be kill people. I have an autistic kid, they can't survive without pegga pig, it is totally unjust that if they were to lose it in the street, I couldn't pop into Tesco's and get a new one.

    The Welsh government should be dragged over the coals for this nonsense. It is just batshit crazy to have Tesco's not able to sell stuff. If Boris government had proposed this, the media would eat him alive, day in day out, mocking what exactly is essential item, rammed full of edge cases where somebody relies on some product from Tesco that is now banned from selling.

    The intention, I assume, is to discourage unnecessary shopping trips, rather than ban anything specific. In practice it’s pretty silly, and probably unenforceable
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401
    Nottingham will be Tier 3 from Wednesday is the feeling tonight says local news. It was going to be Monday but the financial wrangling is taking longer than expected.

    That gives another week basically for falling case numbers to drop further.
  • Are Cornish pasties essential items? What about crisps? nuts? It says no clothes, but what if I am homeless and freezing, are they banned from getting a jumper? You could be kill people. I have an autistic kid, they can't survive without pegga pig, it is totally unjust that if they were to lose it in the street, I couldn't pop into Tesco's and get a new one.

    The Welsh government should be dragged over the coals for this nonsense. It is just batshit crazy to have Tesco's not able to sell stuff. If Boris government had proposed this, the media would eat him alive, day in day out, mocking what exactly is essential item, rammed full of edge cases where somebody relies on some product from Tesco that is now banned from selling.

    Question: are "Cornish pasties" what strippers wear in Lands End to comply with local morals laws AND to demonstrate their tassle-twirling artistry?

    If answer is yes, then of course they are essential!
  • isam said:

    FPT: @isam the first lockdown worked, it got cases and R down.

    We need the same again now the Tories have cocked it up so poorly.

    Yes it worked so well people think we apparently another one... then another, then another... then if we aren’t all dead, the country will be skint. What a life

    If that's what it takes to stop the virus, then that's we need to do.
  • isam said:
    And Horse backs this idiotic cruel regime
  • RobD said:

    Well done Mark Drakeford on taking decisive action.

    Its your inner Corbyn fanboy coming on...oh look mummy, we can only potatoes this week in Tescos...but that strawberry down, that's not to supposed to be on the shelves, its not an essential item....but I've never seen a strawberry before.
    If Johnson announced a lockdown tomorrow he'd get full support from me.
    You did instantly dismiss criticisms of this as "cos labour bad", despite the fact there were clear differences to the restrictions imposed last time nationwide and what is being proposed now.
    We need a stricter lockdown than last time as people are not following the rules. Drakeford is right and onside with more than 60% of the population.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401
    isam said:
    We have collectively lost our minds.

    Imagine reading this in a history book and shaking your head at the stupidity of people living in 2020.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,824

    RobD said:

    Well done Mark Drakeford on taking decisive action.

    Its your inner Corbyn fanboy coming on...oh look mummy, we can only potatoes this week in Tescos...but that strawberry down, that's not to supposed to be on the shelves, its not an essential item....but I've never seen a strawberry before.
    If Johnson announced a lockdown tomorrow he'd get full support from me.
    You did instantly dismiss criticisms of this as "cos labour bad", despite the fact there were clear differences to the restrictions imposed last time nationwide and what is being proposed now.
    We need a stricter lockdown than last time as people are not following the rules. Drakeford is right and onside with more than 60% of the population.
    Do 60% know that they will only be able to buy the bare minimum at tescos?
  • Speaking of "invited guests" at tonight's debate, suggest that Biden campaign invite Alex Baldwin, and have him sit up front where Trumpsky cannot miss him.
  • RobD said:

    Well done Mark Drakeford on taking decisive action.

    Its your inner Corbyn fanboy coming on...oh look mummy, we can only potatoes this week in Tescos...but that strawberry down, that's not to supposed to be on the shelves, its not an essential item....but I've never seen a strawberry before.
    If Johnson announced a lockdown tomorrow he'd get full support from me.
    You did instantly dismiss criticisms of this as "cos labour bad", despite the fact there were clear differences to the restrictions imposed last time nationwide and what is being proposed now.
    We need a stricter lockdown than last time as people are not following the rules. Drakeford is right and onside with more than 60% of the population.

    No he is not right
  • Just catching Geoff Northcott in the flesh for the first time on the BBC just now.
    What an unfunny prick.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,167

    Well done Mark Drakeford on taking decisive action.

    What's he done?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    So I seem to have sold out of the market at the worst possible moment.

    Ugh.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited October 2020

    isam said:

    FPT: @isam the first lockdown worked, it got cases and R down.

    We need the same again now the Tories have cocked it up so poorly.

    Yes it worked so well people think we apparently another one... then another, then another... then if we aren’t all dead, the country will be skint. What a life

    If that's what it takes to stop the virus, then that's we need to do.
    11,000 people die a year from the flu - if no one had ever left their houses that number could have been much, much lower.

    Hang your heads in shame Blair, Brown, Cameron & May
  • isam said:

    FPT: @isam the first lockdown worked, it got cases and R down.

    We need the same again now the Tories have cocked it up so poorly.

    Yes it worked so well people think we apparently another one... then another, then another... then if we aren’t all dead, the country will be skint. What a life

    If that's what it takes to stop the virus, then that's we need to do.
    You are so naive and obviously have not run a business
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401

    Well done Mark Drakeford on taking decisive action.

    Its your inner Corbyn fanboy coming on...oh look mummy, we can only potatoes this week in Tescos...but that strawberry down, that's not to supposed to be on the shelves, its not an essential item....but I've never seen a strawberry before.
    If Johnson announced a lockdown tomorrow he'd get full support from me.
    He wont
    Good.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,167
    Latest 538 projection for tipping point state Pennsylania:

    Biden 52.5%
    Trump 46.8%

    Biden lead: 5.7%

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/pennsylvania/
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190

    There is no precise list of non-essential goods in the law coming into force on Friday...

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-politics-54648194

    We think Team Boris is useless, but Team Twat over in Wales....

    Why are English Tories so exercised at what is going on this side of Offa's Dyke. Obviously there are unhappy campers in Wales, but there is more hostility on here this evening than I have noted, out and about, since the fire-break announcement was made on Monday.

    If the two weeks of not buying sweatshop clothing at Tesco keeps me on this earth for a little longer, I am comfortable with that.
  • isam said:

    isam said:

    FPT: @isam the first lockdown worked, it got cases and R down.

    We need the same again now the Tories have cocked it up so poorly.

    Yes it worked so well people think we apparently another one... then another, then another... then if we aren’t all dead, the country will be skint. What a life

    If that's what it takes to stop the virus, then that's we need to do.
    11,000 people die a year from the flu - if no one had ever left their houses that number could have been much, much lower.

    Hang your heads in shame Blair, Brown, Cameron & May
    Lol comparing it to flu, we've regressed to pre-March
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464

    RobD said:

    Well done Mark Drakeford on taking decisive action.

    Its your inner Corbyn fanboy coming on...oh look mummy, we can only potatoes this week in Tescos...but that strawberry down, that's not to supposed to be on the shelves, its not an essential item....but I've never seen a strawberry before.
    If Johnson announced a lockdown tomorrow he'd get full support from me.
    You did instantly dismiss criticisms of this as "cos labour bad", despite the fact there were clear differences to the restrictions imposed last time nationwide and what is being proposed now.
    We need a stricter lockdown than last time as people are not following the rules. Drakeford is right and onside with more than 60% of the population.
    Except he’s rationing what the shops that are open can sell.

    Which on any medical level is stark raving bonkers. If your in a Tesco buying beans why can’t you wander one aisle over and buy socks?

    Insane.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,871
    RobD said:

    Are Cornish pasties essential items? What about crisps? nuts? It says no clothes, but what if I am homeless and freezing, are they banned from getting a jumper? You could be kill people. I have an autistic kid, they can't survive without pegga pig, it is totally unjust that if they were to lose it in the street, I couldn't pop into Tesco's and get a new one.

    The Welsh government should be dragged over the coals for this nonsense. It is just batshit crazy to have Tesco's not able to sell stuff. If Boris government had proposed this, the media would eat him alive, day in day out, mocking what exactly is essential item, rammed full of edge cases where somebody relies on some product from Tesco that is now banned from selling.

    I'm surprised he even has the power to enact such sweeping restrictions on what businesses can and can't sell.
    I'm surprised he would, given the arguments that would ensure - like the first, it would seem better to tell people it must be essential but shops can sell whatever they like since you'll only be about to prove egregious flouters anyway
  • Economy in the toilet, mess of a virus response that can only be blamed on Boris Johnson's incompetence. This lockdown was not inevitable if we'd taken action in July but we did not. Instead Johnson said get back to the pub and the office.

    I warned it was a disaster and was shouted down - as usual - by PB Tories. But that's fine.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    To be fair to Drakeford, it was a Tory AM (Russell George) who raised the matter that the big supermarkets could sell things like clothes, whilst small retailers can't during lockdown

    So, it was Tory pressure that propelled this policy forward.

    As I keep on saying, outside of Cardiff & Swansea, there aren't that many huge Tesco Extras in Wales to buy all these jeans, T-shirts and iPads anyhow.

    It is nice that pb.com is so collectively worried about the Welsh going without ready access to supermarket shirts, but -- actually -- we have managed so far without any problems.

    When you visit most of Wales, you are travelling back in time to the 1960s.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,892
    888 Sport are 2-13 "The Democrat candidate" most votes.
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Well done Mark Drakeford on taking decisive action.

    Its your inner Corbyn fanboy coming on...oh look mummy, we can only potatoes this week in Tescos...but that strawberry down, that's not to supposed to be on the shelves, its not an essential item....but I've never seen a strawberry before.
    If Johnson announced a lockdown tomorrow he'd get full support from me.
    You did instantly dismiss criticisms of this as "cos labour bad", despite the fact there were clear differences to the restrictions imposed last time nationwide and what is being proposed now.
    We need a stricter lockdown than last time as people are not following the rules. Drakeford is right and onside with more than 60% of the population.
    Do 60% know that they will only be able to buy the bare minimum at tescos?
    And have to choose which child can see their terminal ill mother

    It is morally bankrupt
  • There is no precise list of non-essential goods in the law coming into force on Friday...

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-politics-54648194

    We think Team Boris is useless, but Team Twat over in Wales....

    Why are English Tories so exercised at what is going on this side of Offa's Dyke. Obviously there are unhappy campers in Wales, but there is more hostility on here this evening than I have noted, out and about, since the fire-break announcement was made on Monday.

    If the two weeks of not buying sweatshop clothing at Tesco keeps me on this earth for a little longer, I am comfortable with that.
    PB Tories throwing their toys out of the pram is par for the course
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,214

    Well done Mark Drakeford on taking decisive action.

    If the lockdown works, I expect a flurry of posts on welsh population density, why its ludicrous to compare wales to england and theories about natural celtic immunity.
  • isam said:

    isam said:

    FPT: @isam the first lockdown worked, it got cases and R down.

    We need the same again now the Tories have cocked it up so poorly.

    Yes it worked so well people think we apparently another one... then another, then another... then if we aren’t all dead, the country will be skint. What a life

    If that's what it takes to stop the virus, then that's we need to do.
    11,000 people die a year from the flu - if no one had ever left their houses that number could have been much, much lower.

    Hang your heads in shame Blair, Brown, Cameron & May
    Lol comparing it to flu, we've regressed to pre-March
    Tbf fair some people are where they always were, no movement involved.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190

    isam said:

    FPT: @isam the first lockdown worked, it got cases and R down.

    We need the same again now the Tories have cocked it up so poorly.

    Yes it worked so well people think we apparently another one... then another, then another... then if we aren’t all dead, the country will be skint. What a life

    If that's what it takes to stop the virus, then that's we need to do.
    You are so naive and obviously have not run a business
    Same criticism for me, too BigG. I am naive. I do run a business however, quite successfully as it happens.
  • When the polls say something you don't like, they must be wrong!

    Funny they don't allow me to make the same arguments about Labour leads isn't it? Hypocrisy as usual.

    I am with 60%+ of the population and it's the right course of action. Well done Mark Drakeford.
  • Roy_G_BivRoy_G_Biv Posts: 998

    isam said:
    And Horse backs this idiotic cruel regime
    Motes and beams. If Boris's government had done its job properly, a lot of those people wouldn't have died at all.
  • And with that, I wish you a pleasant evening.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,060
    DavidL said:

    FPT: @isam the first lockdown worked, it got cases and R down.

    We need the same again now the Tories have cocked it up so poorly.

    Yeah, them and every other government in the world. Or we may just have a pandemic that will inevitably return every time we try anything like normal. What do you think?
    Neither the German Government nor the NZ government has cocked it up, and there are others too. However The UK government is at the other end of the cock up spectrum, but to be fair they are not alone.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706

    isam said:
    And Horse backs this idiotic cruel regime
    The key word was “dying”. What were the children going to do, infect her? Who gives a damn if she’s dying anyway? We are losing our collective minds, we really are.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,871
    isam said:

    FPT: @isam the first lockdown worked, it got cases and R down.

    We need the same again now the Tories have cocked it up so poorly.

    Yes it worked so well people think we apparently need another one... then another, then another... then if we aren’t all dead, the country will be skint. What a life

    I have sympathy with the view we can leap too quickly into lockdown without consideration of other matters, but I don't know that you're opening works as my impression was we were told the first lockdown was to save the NHS etc and bring down cases, not eliminate the possibility of a resurgence or second wave, and the need for further measures (be they lockdown or something else) now is not indication that the first failed it what it was designed to do.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,824
    eristdoof said:

    DavidL said:

    FPT: @isam the first lockdown worked, it got cases and R down.

    We need the same again now the Tories have cocked it up so poorly.

    Yeah, them and every other government in the world. Or we may just have a pandemic that will inevitably return every time we try anything like normal. What do you think?
    Neither the German Government nor the NZ government has cocked it up, and there are others too. However The UK government is at the other end of the cock up spectrum, but to be fair they are not alone.
    Don't Germany now have 10k+ confirmed cases per day, with fewer tests? Seems to have gone the same direction there as in the UK.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401

    When the polls say something you don't like, they must be wrong!

    Funny they don't allow me to make the same arguments about Labour leads isn't it? Hypocrisy as usual.

    I am with 60%+ of the population and it's the right course of action. Well done Mark Drakeford.

    How many of that 60% then go on and do a few bits and pieces that don't fit the rules? Just the odd thing mind, not too many, just once or twice etc etc...
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    ...

    isam said:

    isam said:

    FPT: @isam the first lockdown worked, it got cases and R down.

    We need the same again now the Tories have cocked it up so poorly.

    Yes it worked so well people think we apparently another one... then another, then another... then if we aren’t all dead, the country will be skint. What a life

    If that's what it takes to stop the virus, then that's we need to do.
    11,000 people die a year from the flu - if no one had ever left their houses that number could have been much, much lower.

    Hang your heads in shame Blair, Brown, Cameron & May
    Lol comparing it to flu, we've regressed to pre-March
    How am I comparing it to flu?

    And how do they differ?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    edited October 2020
    Roy_G_Biv said:

    isam said:
    And Horse backs this idiotic cruel regime
    Motes and beams. If Boris's government had done its job properly, a lot of those people wouldn't have died at all.
    Utter nonsense

    These are elderly parents terminal ill not related to covid

    What on earth can the children do to them
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190

    There is no precise list of non-essential goods in the law coming into force on Friday...

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-politics-54648194

    We think Team Boris is useless, but Team Twat over in Wales....

    Why are English Tories so exercised at what is going on this side of Offa's Dyke. Obviously there are unhappy campers in Wales, but there is more hostility on here this evening than I have noted, out and about, since the fire-break announcement was made on Monday.

    If the two weeks of not buying sweatshop clothing at Tesco keeps me on this earth for a little longer, I am comfortable with that.
    PB Tories throwing their toys out of the pram is par for the course
    Off Topic

    The thing is the fire break in Wales could be a disaster on many fronts. Equally, it could work less badly than what Westminster have on offer (I have chosen my words carefully).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,871
    DavidL said:

    isam said:
    And Horse backs this idiotic cruel regime
    The key word was “dying”. What were the children going to do, infect her? Who gives a damn if she’s dying anyway? We are losing our collective minds, we really are.
    So long as there are measures to protect staff and other patients, and I'm sure there are, I'm not entirely clear why this particular guidance is seen as a necessity.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,871

    Are Cornish pasties essential items? What about crisps? nuts? It says no clothes, but what if I am homeless and freezing, are they banned from getting a jumper? You could be kill people. I have an autistic kid, they can't survive without pegga pig, it is totally unjust that if they were to lose it in the street, I couldn't pop into Tesco's and get a new one.

    The Welsh government should be dragged over the coals for this nonsense. It is just batshit crazy to have Tesco's not able to sell stuff. If Boris government had proposed this, the media would eat him alive, day in day out, mocking what exactly is essential item, rammed full of edge cases where somebody relies on some product from Tesco that is now banned from selling.

    We will have a whole raft of top notch vaccines long before anyone can precisely define what constitutes essential shopping.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401

    isam said:

    isam said:

    FPT: @isam the first lockdown worked, it got cases and R down.

    We need the same again now the Tories have cocked it up so poorly.

    Yes it worked so well people think we apparently another one... then another, then another... then if we aren’t all dead, the country will be skint. What a life

    If that's what it takes to stop the virus, then that's we need to do.
    11,000 people die a year from the flu - if no one had ever left their houses that number could have been much, much lower.

    Hang your heads in shame Blair, Brown, Cameron & May
    Lol comparing it to flu, we've regressed to pre-March
    So you don't think we should compare different infectious diseases to make comparisons?

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Just catching Geoff Northcott in the flesh for the first time on the BBC just now.
    What an unfunny prick.

    You are so hard to read, I thought you’d love him!

    Inscrutable
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,871
    RobD said:

    eristdoof said:

    DavidL said:

    FPT: @isam the first lockdown worked, it got cases and R down.

    We need the same again now the Tories have cocked it up so poorly.

    Yeah, them and every other government in the world. Or we may just have a pandemic that will inevitably return every time we try anything like normal. What do you think?
    Neither the German Government nor the NZ government has cocked it up, and there are others too. However The UK government is at the other end of the cock up spectrum, but to be fair they are not alone.
    Don't Germany now have 10k+ confirmed cases per day, with fewer tests? Seems to have gone the same direction there as in the UK.
    It would now need to go far far worse than us in this wave, to come anywhere close to how bad we have been overall however, if we are playing a numbers game.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    RobD said:

    eristdoof said:

    DavidL said:

    FPT: @isam the first lockdown worked, it got cases and R down.

    We need the same again now the Tories have cocked it up so poorly.

    Yeah, them and every other government in the world. Or we may just have a pandemic that will inevitably return every time we try anything like normal. What do you think?
    Neither the German Government nor the NZ government has cocked it up, and there are others too. However The UK government is at the other end of the cock up spectrum, but to be fair they are not alone.
    Don't Germany now have 10k+ confirmed cases per day, with fewer tests? Seems to have gone the same direction there as in the UK.
    12.5k today.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401
    edited October 2020

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Well done Mark Drakeford on taking decisive action.

    Its your inner Corbyn fanboy coming on...oh look mummy, we can only potatoes this week in Tescos...but that strawberry down, that's not to supposed to be on the shelves, its not an essential item....but I've never seen a strawberry before.
    If Johnson announced a lockdown tomorrow he'd get full support from me.
    You did instantly dismiss criticisms of this as "cos labour bad", despite the fact there were clear differences to the restrictions imposed last time nationwide and what is being proposed now.
    We need a stricter lockdown than last time as people are not following the rules. Drakeford is right and onside with more than 60% of the population.
    Do 60% know that they will only be able to buy the bare minimum at tescos?
    And have to choose which child can see their terminal ill mother

    It is morally bankrupt
    Well said. As I say, the history books will note these things and future generations will shake their heads at the barbarity. There's no other word for it.

    Completely and utterly and off the scale out of proportion.

    How much more of this are we all going to stand?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,824
    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    eristdoof said:

    DavidL said:

    FPT: @isam the first lockdown worked, it got cases and R down.

    We need the same again now the Tories have cocked it up so poorly.

    Yeah, them and every other government in the world. Or we may just have a pandemic that will inevitably return every time we try anything like normal. What do you think?
    Neither the German Government nor the NZ government has cocked it up, and there are others too. However The UK government is at the other end of the cock up spectrum, but to be fair they are not alone.
    Don't Germany now have 10k+ confirmed cases per day, with fewer tests? Seems to have gone the same direction there as in the UK.
    It would now need to go far far worse than us in this wave, to come anywhere close to how bad we have been overall however, if we are playing a numbers game.
    So they have cocked up far more because their second wave is much worse than their first? ;)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,871
    edited October 2020

    There is no precise list of non-essential goods in the law coming into force on Friday...

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-politics-54648194

    We think Team Boris is useless, but Team Twat over in Wales....

    Why are English Tories so exercised at what is going on this side of Offa's Dyke. Obviously there are unhappy campers in Wales, but there is more hostility on here this evening than I have noted, out and about, since the fire-break announcement was made on Monday.
    It's a part of the UK, so what is happening in one part is of interest to other parts. That's always been the case, unless the part is Northern Ireland.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    eristdoof said:

    DavidL said:

    FPT: @isam the first lockdown worked, it got cases and R down.

    We need the same again now the Tories have cocked it up so poorly.

    Yeah, them and every other government in the world. Or we may just have a pandemic that will inevitably return every time we try anything like normal. What do you think?
    Neither the German Government nor the NZ government has cocked it up, and there are others too. However The UK government is at the other end of the cock up spectrum, but to be fair they are not alone.
    Don't Germany now have 10k+ confirmed cases per day, with fewer tests? Seems to have gone the same direction there as in the UK.
    It would now need to go far far worse than us in this wave, to come anywhere close to how bad we have been overall however, if we are playing a numbers game.
    Not really relevant though, as CHB is specifically referring to what Johnson has cocked up since June.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    eristdoof said:

    DavidL said:

    FPT: @isam the first lockdown worked, it got cases and R down.

    We need the same again now the Tories have cocked it up so poorly.

    Yeah, them and every other government in the world. Or we may just have a pandemic that will inevitably return every time we try anything like normal. What do you think?
    Neither the German Government nor the NZ government has cocked it up, and there are others too. However The UK government is at the other end of the cock up spectrum, but to be fair they are not alone.
    If the Brexit plan of dragging the UK over to the Caribbean had not been thwarted by those dreadful remainers in Parliament we might have been able to do the same as NZ. And lengthened the cricket season. Brilliant idea. Isolate us from the French who had a staggering 40k cases today. Win, win win.
  • Can we kick Chris Robshaw and the rest of these bellends into the North Sea?

    https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1319394172374220801
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Well done Mark Drakeford on taking decisive action.

    Its your inner Corbyn fanboy coming on...oh look mummy, we can only potatoes this week in Tescos...but that strawberry down, that's not to supposed to be on the shelves, its not an essential item....but I've never seen a strawberry before.
    If Johnson announced a lockdown tomorrow he'd get full support from me.
    You did instantly dismiss criticisms of this as "cos labour bad", despite the fact there were clear differences to the restrictions imposed last time nationwide and what is being proposed now.
    We need a stricter lockdown than last time as people are not following the rules. Drakeford is right and onside with more than 60% of the population.
    Do 60% know that they will only be able to buy the bare minimum at tescos?
    And have to choose which child can see their terminal ill mother

    It is morally bankrupt
    Well said. As I say, the history books will note these things and future generations will shake their heads at the barbarity. There's no other word for it.

    Completely and utterly and off the scale out of proportion.

    How much more of this are we all going to stand?
    I really think we are nearing a tipping point

    Huge row in Scotland with the FM threatening Xmas already
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,871
    alex_ said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    eristdoof said:

    DavidL said:

    FPT: @isam the first lockdown worked, it got cases and R down.

    We need the same again now the Tories have cocked it up so poorly.

    Yeah, them and every other government in the world. Or we may just have a pandemic that will inevitably return every time we try anything like normal. What do you think?
    Neither the German Government nor the NZ government has cocked it up, and there are others too. However The UK government is at the other end of the cock up spectrum, but to be fair they are not alone.
    Don't Germany now have 10k+ confirmed cases per day, with fewer tests? Seems to have gone the same direction there as in the UK.
    It would now need to go far far worse than us in this wave, to come anywhere close to how bad we have been overall however, if we are playing a numbers game.
    Not really relevant though, as CHB is specifically referring to what Johnson has cocked up since June.
    Fair point.

    Personally I don't think recognising where other places are doing as bad us overall, or in a particular phase, or even worse, lessens the criticism that the government will deserve to face, but is important context. After all, if people insist the personal character failings of Boris lead to outcome X, it is relevant if Spain or Belgium for instance, without such a figure, have a similar outcome. Personal character failings may contribute, but odds are there's a deeper problem in all those places, perhaps a similar one, to learn from.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,798
    edited October 2020
    isam said:

    Just catching Geoff Northcott in the flesh for the first time on the BBC just now.
    What an unfunny prick.

    You are so hard to read, I thought you’d love him!

    Inscrutable

    You are so hard to read, I thought you’d hate him!

    Inscrutable

    One little fishy that I knew would be right onto the hook.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,871

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Well done Mark Drakeford on taking decisive action.

    Its your inner Corbyn fanboy coming on...oh look mummy, we can only potatoes this week in Tescos...but that strawberry down, that's not to supposed to be on the shelves, its not an essential item....but I've never seen a strawberry before.
    If Johnson announced a lockdown tomorrow he'd get full support from me.
    You did instantly dismiss criticisms of this as "cos labour bad", despite the fact there were clear differences to the restrictions imposed last time nationwide and what is being proposed now.
    We need a stricter lockdown than last time as people are not following the rules. Drakeford is right and onside with more than 60% of the population.
    Do 60% know that they will only be able to buy the bare minimum at tescos?
    And have to choose which child can see their terminal ill mother

    It is morally bankrupt
    Well said. As I say, the history books will note these things and future generations will shake their heads at the barbarity. There's no other word for it.

    Completely and utterly and off the scale out of proportion.

    How much more of this are we all going to stand?
    I really think we are nearing a tipping point

    Huge row in Scotland with the FM threatening Xmas already
    Maybe the gov will revive this

    https://www.british-history.ac.uk/no-series/acts-ordinances-interregnum/p954
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,871

    Can we kick Chris Robshaw and the rest of these bellends into the North Sea?

    https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1319394172374220801

    I'm sure these bubble arrangements are annoying, but they are well compensated so it doesn't seem too much to ask.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,824
    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Well done Mark Drakeford on taking decisive action.

    Its your inner Corbyn fanboy coming on...oh look mummy, we can only potatoes this week in Tescos...but that strawberry down, that's not to supposed to be on the shelves, its not an essential item....but I've never seen a strawberry before.
    If Johnson announced a lockdown tomorrow he'd get full support from me.
    You did instantly dismiss criticisms of this as "cos labour bad", despite the fact there were clear differences to the restrictions imposed last time nationwide and what is being proposed now.
    We need a stricter lockdown than last time as people are not following the rules. Drakeford is right and onside with more than 60% of the population.
    Do 60% know that they will only be able to buy the bare minimum at tescos?
    And have to choose which child can see their terminal ill mother

    It is morally bankrupt
    Well said. As I say, the history books will note these things and future generations will shake their heads at the barbarity. There's no other word for it.

    Completely and utterly and off the scale out of proportion.

    How much more of this are we all going to stand?
    I really think we are nearing a tipping point

    Huge row in Scotland with the FM threatening Xmas already
    Maybe the gov will revive this

    https://www.british-history.ac.uk/no-series/acts-ordinances-interregnum/p954
    Didn't Parliament declare this period of history null and void, to be erased from the legal records? Perhaps parliament isn't as sovereign as I had once thought. :D
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,503

    When the polls say something you don't like, they must be wrong!

    Funny they don't allow me to make the same arguments about Labour leads isn't it? Hypocrisy as usual.

    I am with 60%+ of the population and it's the right course of action. Well done Mark Drakeford.

    How many of that 60% then go on and do a few bits and pieces that don't fit the rules? Just the odd thing mind, not too many, just once or twice etc etc...
    I think some do, frankly, but it's like speed limits - if you have a 30 limit then people go at 35, and if you don't have a limit they go at 50. Like most people I'm in favour of strict lockdown rules with the police enforcing them with a bit of humanity - in pracftice nobody will prosecute a child for visiting a dying grandparent. But we need to stop pissing about with half measures which get tweaked every few days - they simply annoy everyone and don't work. Two weeks lockdown every second month throug the winter, with proper support for the businesses at risk of bankruptcy as a result.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,871


    To be fair to Drakeford, it was a Tory AM (Russell George) who raised the matter that the big supermarkets could sell things like clothes, whilst small retailers can't during lockdown

    So, it was Tory pressure that propelled this policy forward.

    As I keep on saying, outside of Cardiff & Swansea, there aren't that many huge Tesco Extras in Wales to buy all these jeans, T-shirts and iPads anyhow.

    It is nice that pb.com is so collectively worried about the Welsh going without ready access to supermarket shirts, but -- actually -- we have managed so far without any problems.

    When you visit most of Wales, you are travelling back in time to the 1960s.

    And if we visit the rest of it we are travelling back to the 1930s :)?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    eristdoof said:

    DavidL said:

    FPT: @isam the first lockdown worked, it got cases and R down.

    We need the same again now the Tories have cocked it up so poorly.

    Yeah, them and every other government in the world. Or we may just have a pandemic that will inevitably return every time we try anything like normal. What do you think?
    Neither the German Government nor the NZ government has cocked it up, and there are others too. However The UK government is at the other end of the cock up spectrum, but to be fair they are not alone.
    No, we are not.

    https://twitter.com/slaskow/status/1319387768548720643

    Though our economy does seem to be substantially more vulnerable to the economic shock than some of the others.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,871
    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Well done Mark Drakeford on taking decisive action.

    Its your inner Corbyn fanboy coming on...oh look mummy, we can only potatoes this week in Tescos...but that strawberry down, that's not to supposed to be on the shelves, its not an essential item....but I've never seen a strawberry before.
    If Johnson announced a lockdown tomorrow he'd get full support from me.
    You did instantly dismiss criticisms of this as "cos labour bad", despite the fact there were clear differences to the restrictions imposed last time nationwide and what is being proposed now.
    We need a stricter lockdown than last time as people are not following the rules. Drakeford is right and onside with more than 60% of the population.
    Do 60% know that they will only be able to buy the bare minimum at tescos?
    And have to choose which child can see their terminal ill mother

    It is morally bankrupt
    Well said. As I say, the history books will note these things and future generations will shake their heads at the barbarity. There's no other word for it.

    Completely and utterly and off the scale out of proportion.

    How much more of this are we all going to stand?
    I really think we are nearing a tipping point

    Huge row in Scotland with the FM threatening Xmas already
    Maybe the gov will revive this

    https://www.british-history.ac.uk/no-series/acts-ordinances-interregnum/p954
    Didn't Parliament declare this period of history null and void, to be erased from the legal records? Perhaps parliament isn't as sovereign as I had once thought. :D
    A minor detail!
  • Good Lord, I find myself agreeing with Paul Krugman. The world really is turned upside down.

    https://twitter.com/paulkrugman/status/1319391022892408835
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    Just catching Geoff Northcott in the flesh for the first time on the BBC just now.
    What an unfunny prick.

    You are so hard to read, I thought you’d love him!

    Inscrutable

    You are so hard to read, I thought you’d hate him!

    Inscrutable

    One little fishy that I knew would be right onto the hook.
    I don’t think he is funny either actually.

    Nice try at a wriggle out if it, but nah... didn’t work
  • RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Well done Mark Drakeford on taking decisive action.

    Its your inner Corbyn fanboy coming on...oh look mummy, we can only potatoes this week in Tescos...but that strawberry down, that's not to supposed to be on the shelves, its not an essential item....but I've never seen a strawberry before.
    If Johnson announced a lockdown tomorrow he'd get full support from me.
    You did instantly dismiss criticisms of this as "cos labour bad", despite the fact there were clear differences to the restrictions imposed last time nationwide and what is being proposed now.
    We need a stricter lockdown than last time as people are not following the rules. Drakeford is right and onside with more than 60% of the population.
    Do 60% know that they will only be able to buy the bare minimum at tescos?
    And have to choose which child can see their terminal ill mother

    It is morally bankrupt
    Well said. As I say, the history books will note these things and future generations will shake their heads at the barbarity. There's no other word for it.

    Completely and utterly and off the scale out of proportion.

    How much more of this are we all going to stand?
    I really think we are nearing a tipping point

    Huge row in Scotland with the FM threatening Xmas already
    Maybe the gov will revive this

    https://www.british-history.ac.uk/no-series/acts-ordinances-interregnum/p954
    Didn't Parliament declare this period of history null and void, to be erased from the legal records? Perhaps parliament isn't as sovereign as I had once thought. :D
    That has pained me for so long.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,924

    Well done Mark Drakeford on taking decisive action.

    Its your inner Corbyn fanboy coming on...oh look mummy, we can only potatoes this week in Tescos...but that strawberry down, that's not to supposed to be on the shelves, its not an essential item....but I've never seen a strawberry before.
    If Johnson announced a lockdown tomorrow he'd get full support from me.
    I fully support locking Johnson in a room.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited October 2020
    kle4 said:

    alex_ said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    eristdoof said:

    DavidL said:

    FPT: @isam the first lockdown worked, it got cases and R down.

    We need the same again now the Tories have cocked it up so poorly.

    Yeah, them and every other government in the world. Or we may just have a pandemic that will inevitably return every time we try anything like normal. What do you think?
    Neither the German Government nor the NZ government has cocked it up, and there are others too. However The UK government is at the other end of the cock up spectrum, but to be fair they are not alone.
    Don't Germany now have 10k+ confirmed cases per day, with fewer tests? Seems to have gone the same direction there as in the UK.
    It would now need to go far far worse than us in this wave, to come anywhere close to how bad we have been overall however, if we are playing a numbers game.
    Not really relevant though, as CHB is specifically referring to what Johnson has cocked up since June.
    Fair point.

    Personally I don't think recognising where other places are doing as bad us overall, or in a particular phase, or even worse, lessens the criticism that the government will deserve to face, but is important context. After all, if people insist the personal character failings of Boris lead to outcome X, it is relevant if Spain or Belgium for instance, without such a figure, have a similar outcome. Personal character failings may contribute, but odds are there's a deeper problem in all those places, perhaps a similar one, to learn from.
    I think there's a reasonable argument that by imposing strict lockdowns over many weeks and months, the politicians undermined the reality that this virus was going to take a long time to overcome, and people would have to prepare for restrictions on normal life for a lengthy time. By locking down to an extreme (and, importantly, unsustainable) extent, the lifting of the lockdown created the illusion of safety and allowed people to relax far more than they should.

    Ignoring the "zero covid" places that managed to clamp down early enough and close the borders to their countries to prevent the virus getting beyond first base (although they will struggle with the problem of how they will ever open their borders again), the most successful countries (at least in thus far avoiding a second wave) have arguably been the ones that have managed to retain a consistent level of restrictions of various degrees throughout.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,871
    edited October 2020

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Well done Mark Drakeford on taking decisive action.

    Its your inner Corbyn fanboy coming on...oh look mummy, we can only potatoes this week in Tescos...but that strawberry down, that's not to supposed to be on the shelves, its not an essential item....but I've never seen a strawberry before.
    If Johnson announced a lockdown tomorrow he'd get full support from me.
    You did instantly dismiss criticisms of this as "cos labour bad", despite the fact there were clear differences to the restrictions imposed last time nationwide and what is being proposed now.
    We need a stricter lockdown than last time as people are not following the rules. Drakeford is right and onside with more than 60% of the population.
    Do 60% know that they will only be able to buy the bare minimum at tescos?
    And have to choose which child can see their terminal ill mother

    It is morally bankrupt
    Well said. As I say, the history books will note these things and future generations will shake their heads at the barbarity. There's no other word for it.

    Completely and utterly and off the scale out of proportion.

    How much more of this are we all going to stand?
    One more lockdown (national, or tiered regional), I suspect, up to the new year. My gut, unreliable though it is, just has a feeling the tide will start turning on that psycological janus point. alex_ makes the point quiet persuasively I think that mentally we are not prepared for the long term. I think that is despite some comments stating that would be the case, and a surprising acceptance level so far.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    If there is an Overton window of people's civil liberties and justified restrictions on freedom in the name of disease suppression then it has been pushed out the fucking door and into the next county.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,503
    Alistair said:

    So I seem to have sold out of the market at the worst possible moment.

    Ugh.

    I dunno - if Trump avoids disaster tonight, there may be a temporary blip in the betting. It's priced in that he'll be terrible, and conceivably he won't be.

    I still think Biden will win either way, though!
  • isam said:

    isam said:

    Just catching Geoff Northcott in the flesh for the first time on the BBC just now.
    What an unfunny prick.

    You are so hard to read, I thought you’d love him!

    Inscrutable

    You are so hard to read, I thought you’d hate him!

    Inscrutable

    One little fishy that I knew would be right onto the hook.
    I don’t think he is funny either actually.

    Nice try at a wriggle out if it, but nah... didn’t work
    Wriggle out of what, and what didn't work? Please develop your theme, and show your workings.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,455
    edited October 2020
    Nigelb said:

    Are Cornish pasties essential items? What about crisps? nuts? It says no clothes, but what if I am homeless and freezing, are they banned from getting a jumper? You could be kill people. I have an autistic kid, they can't survive without pegga pig, it is totally unjust that if they were to lose it in the street, I couldn't pop into Tesco's and get a new one.

    The Welsh government should be dragged over the coals for this nonsense. It is just batshit crazy to have Tesco's not able to sell stuff. If Boris government had proposed this, the media would eat him alive, day in day out, mocking what exactly is essential item, rammed full of edge cases where somebody relies on some product from Tesco that is now banned from selling.

    The intention, I assume, is to discourage unnecessary shopping trips, rather than ban anything specific. In practice it’s pretty silly, and probably unenforceable
    Advice such as use your common sense, only go out to the shops if necessary is perfectly sensible, but then anything "common sense" related also gets bashed by the media.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,060
    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    eristdoof said:

    DavidL said:

    FPT: @isam the first lockdown worked, it got cases and R down.

    We need the same again now the Tories have cocked it up so poorly.

    Yeah, them and every other government in the world. Or we may just have a pandemic that will inevitably return every time we try anything like normal. What do you think?
    Neither the German Government nor the NZ government has cocked it up, and there are others too. However The UK government is at the other end of the cock up spectrum, but to be fair they are not alone.
    Don't Germany now have 10k+ confirmed cases per day, with fewer tests? Seems to have gone the same direction there as in the UK.
    It would now need to go far far worse than us in this wave, to come anywhere close to how bad we have been overall however, if we are playing a numbers game.
    RobD's argument is laughable. Hospitals here have never been near the point of meltdown, treatment for non Covid illnesses has carried on despite Corona. The government has acted in a sensible way and communicated it's strategy well with the population. Read
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/19/germany-covid-second-wave-virus

    And if you do want to play the numbers game youre not going to win. The number of cases* in the UK has been way way above the number of German cases since April. (Replace with any metric you want).
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited October 2020
    rkrkrk said:

    Well done Mark Drakeford on taking decisive action.

    If the lockdown works, I expect a flurry of posts on welsh population density, why its ludicrous to compare wales to england and theories about natural celtic immunity.
    Actually, my guess is it won't work because the rules in Wales were already very strict (except where they were no people) and the statistics in September and October in Wales were no better than England.

    Like STDs, I bet most of the transmission is done by a very few people. A feature of sexual networks is that a small number of people have a disproportionately large number of partners and transmit the disease.

    Similarly, a small number of people flouting or ignoring lockdown rules probably is enough to ensure the disease just keeps on going.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,871
    TOPPING said:

    If there is an Overton window of people's civil liberties and justified restrictions on freedom in the name of disease suppression then it has been pushed out the fucking door and into the next county.

    I am quite curious if there is a time when Covid-19 is no longer a concern in any real sense, we will see a big push toward mask wearing at least in winter, to protect against flu outbreaks.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Just catching Geoff Northcott in the flesh for the first time on the BBC just now.
    What an unfunny prick.

    You are so hard to read, I thought you’d love him!

    Inscrutable

    You are so hard to read, I thought you’d hate him!

    Inscrutable

    One little fishy that I knew would be right onto the hook.
    I don’t think he is funny either actually.

    Nice try at a wriggle out if it, but nah... didn’t work
    Wriggle out of what, and what didn't work? Please develop your theme, and show your workings.
    Sorry mate
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,824
    eristdoof said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    eristdoof said:

    DavidL said:

    FPT: @isam the first lockdown worked, it got cases and R down.

    We need the same again now the Tories have cocked it up so poorly.

    Yeah, them and every other government in the world. Or we may just have a pandemic that will inevitably return every time we try anything like normal. What do you think?
    Neither the German Government nor the NZ government has cocked it up, and there are others too. However The UK government is at the other end of the cock up spectrum, but to be fair they are not alone.
    Don't Germany now have 10k+ confirmed cases per day, with fewer tests? Seems to have gone the same direction there as in the UK.
    It would now need to go far far worse than us in this wave, to come anywhere close to how bad we have been overall however, if we are playing a numbers game.
    RobD's argument is laughable. Hospitals here have never been near the point of meltdown, treatment for non Covid illnesses has carried on despite Corona. The government has acted in a sensible way and communicated it's strategy well with the population. Read
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/19/germany-covid-second-wave-virus

    And if you do want to play the numbers game youre not going to win. The number of cases* in the UK has been way way above the number of German cases since April. (Replace with any metric you want).
    The original claim was that since the end of the last lockdown Johnson has cocked it up, and Germany was given as a counter-example. It turns out the trajectory in both countries is actually pretty similar.
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