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If Florida flips, as the polls are suggesting, then Trump is doomed – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,683
edited October 2020 in General
imageIf Florida flips, as the polls are suggesting, then Trump is doomed – politicalbetting.com

Florida with its 29 electoral votes has been looking pretty good for Biden and the current FiveThirtyEight average has Biden 3.5% ahead. What makes this interesting from a betting perspective is that as I write Trump and Biden are running at fifty-fifty on the Betfair exchange.

Read the full story here

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  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    edited October 2020
    I actually think Trump could hold Wisconsin and Michigan as Trafalgar are suggesting (albeit lose Pennsylvania and maybe Arizona to Biden) making Florida indeed again the key swing state both need to win
  • Options
    After AOC played on twitch...what about Trump playing Among Us...it wasn't me....wrong...we all saw you in the canteen....wrong...fake news...
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,993
    I have bought Biden on the spreads, as it now seems like the downside is risk is relatively small, and there's a good chance of a blowout.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,196
    HYUFD said:

    I actually think Trump could hold Wisconsin and Michigan as Trafalgar are suggesting (albeit lose Pennsylvania and maybe Arizona to Biden) making Florida indeed again the key swing state both need to win

    Are you on the guy who is Trafalgar's payroll? If he is right it will be a good guess, there is no science involved as RCS1000 pointed out a few days ago.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,631
    HYUFD said:

    I actually think Trump could hold Wisconsin and Michigan as Trafalgar are suggesting (albeit lose Pennsylvania and maybe Arizona to Biden) making Florida indeed again the key swing state both need to win

    So what is the concesus on Trafalgar? Is it a man making up numbers or are they real polls?
  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,989
    edited October 2020
    I'm beginning to plan for the US election night.
    I'm going to be home alone in Tier 2.
    I'll have PB for company and I'm idly thinking about setting up a Zoom meeting for anyone interested.
    We'd need to rename ourselves with our PB handle in the waiting room.
    What do you think?
  • Options
    Mal557Mal557 Posts: 662
    HYUFD said:

    I actually think Trump could hold Wisconsin and Michigan as Trafalgar are suggesting (albeit lose Pennsylvania and maybe Arizona to Biden) making Florida indeed again the key swing state both need to win

    Thats one scenario, IF Trafalgar are right again and the other pollsters aren't, on the other hand its quite possible Trump could lose NC as well as Arizona, even Ohio is a possible loss, though I'm expecting Trump to hold there. I do sense he might squeak in in FL though, in which case things could be closer that most think.
  • Options
    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,288
    edited October 2020
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I actually think Trump could hold Wisconsin and Michigan as Trafalgar are suggesting (albeit lose Pennsylvania and maybe Arizona to Biden) making Florida indeed again the key swing state both need to win

    So what is the concesus on Trafalgar? Is it a man making up numbers or are they real polls?
    Nelson won. (215 years on).
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282
    dr_spyn said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I actually think Trump could hold Wisconsin and Michigan as Trafalgar are suggesting (albeit lose Pennsylvania and maybe Arizona to Biden) making Florida indeed again the key swing state both need to win

    So what is the concesus on Trafalgar? Is it a man making up numbers or are they real polls?
    Nelson won. (215 years on).
    In a sense.
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,779
    IanB2 said:

    dr_spyn said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I actually think Trump could hold Wisconsin and Michigan as Trafalgar are suggesting (albeit lose Pennsylvania and maybe Arizona to Biden) making Florida indeed again the key swing state both need to win

    So what is the concesus on Trafalgar? Is it a man making up numbers or are they real polls?
    Nelson won. (215 years on).
    In a sense.
    The huge victory (no pun intended) sort of a sense?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Did @Tissue_Price vote to help the children or to keep his chances high of a junior ministerial post in time :) ?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750

    After AOC played on twitch

    I've thought for years politicians should do some twitch streaming as a way to engage and get in some gaming time, glad someone finally did.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282
    Omnium said:

    IanB2 said:

    dr_spyn said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I actually think Trump could hold Wisconsin and Michigan as Trafalgar are suggesting (albeit lose Pennsylvania and maybe Arizona to Biden) making Florida indeed again the key swing state both need to win

    So what is the concesus on Trafalgar? Is it a man making up numbers or are they real polls?
    Nelson won. (215 years on).
    In a sense.
    The huge victory (no pun intended) sort of a sense?
    Or the being fatally shot sense?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750
    You know how often companies pay huge fines without admitting wrongdoing (which of course is the reason they pay the fine), well I see that Purdue, the makers of OxyContin, are paying $8.3bn and pleading guilty to at least some criminal charges.

    Just how hugely guilty must they have been to pay up and actually admit some wrongdoing?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54636002
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750
    Barnesian said:

    I'm beginning to plan for the US election night.
    I'm going to be home alone in Tier 2.
    I'll have PB for company and I'm idly thinking about setting up a Zoom meeting for anyone interested.
    We'd need to rename ourselves with our PB handle in the waiting room.
    What do you think?

    Interesting idea. Midweek is a bad time for, damn american elections being on a Tuesday.
  • Options
    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Barnesian said:

    I'm beginning to plan for the US election night.
    I'm going to be home alone in Tier 2.
    I'll have PB for company and I'm idly thinking about setting up a Zoom meeting for anyone interested.
    We'd need to rename ourselves with our PB handle in the waiting room.
    What do you think?

    Good idea
  • Options
    Mal557Mal557 Posts: 662
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I actually think Trump could hold Wisconsin and Michigan as Trafalgar are suggesting (albeit lose Pennsylvania and maybe Arizona to Biden) making Florida indeed again the key swing state both need to win

    So what is the concesus on Trafalgar? Is it a man making up numbers or are they real polls?
    Robert's header a few days ago about his chat with the guy who runs it was very illuminating but I think the jury is still out, clearly in 2016 they hit some home runs but also missed a lot. I think if they call it right this time they will have a lot more credibility, its still quite possible last time was more luck than skill.

    Do they really find the 'shy trumpers' that others can't? I'm not convinced but if they do then we could end up with some kind of repeat of 2016 but even closer.

  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,444
    edited October 2020
    Pulpstar said:

    Did @Tissue_Price vote to help the children or to keep his chances high of a junior ministerial post in time :) ?
    He chose his career over starving children.

  • Options
    kle4 said:

    Barnesian said:

    I'm beginning to plan for the US election night.
    I'm going to be home alone in Tier 2.
    I'll have PB for company and I'm idly thinking about setting up a Zoom meeting for anyone interested.
    We'd need to rename ourselves with our PB handle in the waiting room.
    What do you think?

    Interesting idea. Midweek is a bad time for, damn american elections being on a Tuesday.
    I know I will not sleep even if I wanted to, so booked the Wednesday off
  • Options

    kle4 said:

    Barnesian said:

    I'm beginning to plan for the US election night.
    I'm going to be home alone in Tier 2.
    I'll have PB for company and I'm idly thinking about setting up a Zoom meeting for anyone interested.
    We'd need to rename ourselves with our PB handle in the waiting room.
    What do you think?

    Interesting idea. Midweek is a bad time for, damn american elections being on a Tuesday.
    I know I will not sleep even if I wanted to, so booked the Wednesday off
    Rookie mistake, you should also take off the Tuesday.
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079
    Have we covered today’s Quinnipiac Texas poll?
    Biden 47% (+2)
    Trump 47% (-3)

    Changes from 23rd September.
  • Options

    Have we covered today’s Quinnipiac Texas poll?
    Biden 47% (+2)
    Trump 47% (-3)

    Changes from 23rd September.

    Blimey.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750

    Have we covered today’s Quinnipiac Texas poll?
    Biden 47% (+2)
    Trump 47% (-3)

    Changes from 23rd September.

    Peaking two weeks early, with our luck.
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,779
    IanB2 said:

    Omnium said:

    IanB2 said:

    dr_spyn said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I actually think Trump could hold Wisconsin and Michigan as Trafalgar are suggesting (albeit lose Pennsylvania and maybe Arizona to Biden) making Florida indeed again the key swing state both need to win

    So what is the concesus on Trafalgar? Is it a man making up numbers or are they real polls?
    Nelson won. (215 years on).
    In a sense.
    The huge victory (no pun intended) sort of a sense?
    Or the being fatally shot sense?
    Mere flesh wounds.
  • Options
    Mal557Mal557 Posts: 662

    Have we covered today’s Quinnipiac Texas poll?
    Biden 47% (+2)
    Trump 47% (-3)

    Changes from 23rd September.

    That's a good poll for Biden, though i think Quinni are rated as Dem leaning? Even so its another reminder that Texas may be close (though I'm convinced Trump will hold it , as he will Georgia, i think this election is too soon for a TX flip)
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,444
    edited October 2020
    Has Toby Young's Free Speech Union come to the defence of Angela Rayner?

    https://twitter.com/ChrisClarksonMP/status/1318953306807521282
  • Options

    kle4 said:

    Barnesian said:

    I'm beginning to plan for the US election night.
    I'm going to be home alone in Tier 2.
    I'll have PB for company and I'm idly thinking about setting up a Zoom meeting for anyone interested.
    We'd need to rename ourselves with our PB handle in the waiting room.
    What do you think?

    Interesting idea. Midweek is a bad time for, damn american elections being on a Tuesday.
    I know I will not sleep even if I wanted to, so booked the Wednesday off
    Rookie mistake, you should also take off the Tuesday.
    Wish I could but rude co-workers already stolen a march on me for tuesday
  • Options
    Interesting, and possibly important, numbers in the England cases data today.

    The change in reported cases for 19/10/20 was no less than 13,895 - for yesterday the equivalent number was 5,363.

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/cases?areaType=nation&areaName=England

    I don't know if that means a huge increase in new cases, a huge increase in test processing or merely a data variation.

    We will see what tomorrow brings.

    If we discount that piece of data then the England new cases for the previous seven days look promising.

    But we will see.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,953

    He chose his career over starving children.

    At the current rate, his career ends at the next election.

    Shame.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I actually think Trump could hold Wisconsin and Michigan as Trafalgar are suggesting (albeit lose Pennsylvania and maybe Arizona to Biden) making Florida indeed again the key swing state both need to win

    So what is the concesus on Trafalgar? Is it a man making up numbers or are they real polls?
    I thought they were real polls until I looked again at the Michigan numbers. Here are their October, September and August polls.

    https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/mi-pres-1020/

    https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/mi-pres-0920/

    https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/mi-pres-0820/

    Look at he the Demographic Breakdowns and especially Congressional District Breakdowns.

    They are identical!

    The chance of that having stability to 1 decimal place in 3 polls is basically nil. They are either lying about how they are doing the polling or they are just making it up.

    Either way they are bullshiters

  • Options
    Scott_xP said:

    He chose his career over starving children.

    At the current rate, his career ends at the next election.

    Shame.
    I suspect he'll be safe, he's sitting on a hefty majority, and not in a Tier 3 area.

    If he was a Greater Manchester MP then he'd be in trouble with this vote.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750

    Has Toby Young's Free Speech Union come to the defence of Angela Rayner?

    https://twitter.com/ChrisClarksonMP/stus/1318953306807521282

    Leaving aside what I assume is the implication they are partisanly selective in who they seek to defend (I wouldn't be surprised), wouldn't they only be concerned if she were losing her job as a result of her speech?

    I mean, I think using gratuitous insults in the Commons is pathetic and unnecessary, but the whinging letter is just sad, particularly when she was, I believe, already upbraided for her use of language anyway. So it seems like an attempt to get an outrage spiral going, which is petty.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    kle4 said:

    You know how often companies pay huge fines without admitting wrongdoing (which of course is the reason they pay the fine), well I see that Purdue, the makers of OxyContin, are paying $8.3bn and pleading guilty to at least some criminal charges.

    Just how hugely guilty must they have been to pay up and actually admit some wrongdoing?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54636002

    They engaged in a vast network of Bribery.

    8 billion and under a half dozen offences admitted is probably a good deal for them.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,994
    HYUFD said:

    I actually think Trump could hold Wisconsin and Michigan as Trafalgar are suggesting (albeit lose Pennsylvania and maybe Arizona to Biden) making Florida indeed again the key swing state both need to win

    What’s your current forecast?
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,082
    edited October 2020
    Spot the difference:

    The costs associated with building HS2, the high speed railway linking northern and southern England, have risen again.

    The news comes less than two months after construction officially began.

    Ministers have admitted an extra £800m is needed due to more asbestos being discovered and the complexities of bringing the railway into a new hub station at London Euston.

    Earlier this year the government gave HS2 a revised budget of £98bn after previous costings became unrealistic.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54538639

    The government has rejected a proposal for a £300m airport rail link saying it "would not offer value for money".

    Doncaster Sheffield Airport would have been joined to the East Coast mainline by 4.5 miles (7.2km) of new track.

    The plan's backers claimed it would create 72,000 new jobs and bring in £3.2bn of income to South Yorkshire.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-54632396

    Not good imagery for the government and likely to be repeated whenever a local transport investment doesn't happen.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Mal557 said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I actually think Trump could hold Wisconsin and Michigan as Trafalgar are suggesting (albeit lose Pennsylvania and maybe Arizona to Biden) making Florida indeed again the key swing state both need to win

    So what is the concesus on Trafalgar? Is it a man making up numbers or are they real polls?
    Robert's header a few days ago about his chat with the guy who runs it was very illuminating but I think the jury is still out, clearly in 2016 they hit some home runs but also missed a lot. I think if they call it right this time they will have a lot more credibility, its still quite possible last time was more luck than skill.

    Do they really find the 'shy trumpers' that others can't? I'm not convinced but if they do then we could end up with some kind of repeat of 2016 but even closer.

    No, their number are bogus.
  • Options
    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    FYI

    https://www.vox.com/recode/2020/10/20/21523492/future-forward-super-pac-dustin-moskovitz-silicon-valley

    Biden’s superiority in fundraising is often cited as an example of how much more popular he is than Trump. Actually, a lot of it is driven by tech employees and their firms. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t count (it buys adverts) but shouldn’t be used as an example of how ordinary Americans are coming together to defeat Trump
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079
    We also have:

    Quinnipiac University Pennsylvania
    Biden 51% (-3)
    Trump 43% (+2)

    Changes from 6th October.
  • Options
    Mal557Mal557 Posts: 662
    Alistair said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I actually think Trump could hold Wisconsin and Michigan as Trafalgar are suggesting (albeit lose Pennsylvania and maybe Arizona to Biden) making Florida indeed again the key swing state both need to win

    So what is the concesus on Trafalgar? Is it a man making up numbers or are they real polls?
    I thought they were real polls until I looked again at the Michigan numbers. Here are their October, September and August polls.

    https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/mi-pres-1020/

    https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/mi-pres-0920/

    https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/mi-pres-0820/

    Look at he the Demographic Breakdowns and especially Congressional District Breakdowns.

    They are identical!

    The chance of that having stability to 1 decimal place in 3 polls is basically nil. They are either lying about how they are doing the polling or they are just making it up.

    Either way they are bullshiters

    Just saw this,,,wow,,,that really is,,,,an eye opener.
  • Options
    OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,282
    Alistair said:

    kle4 said:

    You know how often companies pay huge fines without admitting wrongdoing (which of course is the reason they pay the fine), well I see that Purdue, the makers of OxyContin, are paying $8.3bn and pleading guilty to at least some criminal charges.

    Just how hugely guilty must they have been to pay up and actually admit some wrongdoing?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54636002

    They engaged in a vast network of Bribery.

    8 billion and under a half dozen offences admitted is probably a good deal for them.
    They and the Sacklers both should have been crushed out of existence. They've immiserated millions, cost the US taxpayer billions and profited immensely off of it. Break up Purdue, and hit the Sacklers personally with a big fuckoff fine. That might well be what happens when the civil litigation comes through, but if a company is this malfeasant it shouldn't exist.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750
    Alistair said:

    kle4 said:

    You know how often companies pay huge fines without admitting wrongdoing (which of course is the reason they pay the fine), well I see that Purdue, the makers of OxyContin, are paying $8.3bn and pleading guilty to at least some criminal charges.

    Just how hugely guilty must they have been to pay up and actually admit some wrongdoing?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54636002

    They engaged in a vast network of Bribery.

    8 billion and under a half dozen offences admitted is probably a good deal for them.
    I don't doubt it, given the flagrant abuses companies get away with without admitting anything.

    Spot the difference:

    The costs associated with building HS2, the high speed railway linking northern and southern England, have risen again.

    The news comes less than two months after construction officially began.

    Ministers have admitted an extra £800m is needed due to more asbestos being discovered and the complexities of bringing the railway into a new hub station at London Euston.

    Earlier this year the government gave HS2 a revised budget of £98bn after previous costings became unrealistic.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54538639

    The government has rejected a proposal for a £300m airport rail link saying it "would not offer value for money".

    Doncaster Sheffield Airport would have been joined to the East Coast mainline by 4.5 miles (7.2km) of new track.

    The plan's backers claimed it would create 72,000 new jobs and bring in £3.2bn of income to South Yorkshire.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-54632396

    Not good imagery for the government and likely to be repeated whenever a local transport investment doesn't happen.

    Perhaps my brain just refuses to retain it, but I really cannot recall why HS2 estimates were so out, and why rises always seem to be unforeseen. I know it is possible to estimate big projects correctly, or at least get close.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,674
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    There's a small chance Trump does win. Cahilly's plan is to claim the clout on that if it happens as he'll be pretty much alone.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    Alistair said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I actually think Trump could hold Wisconsin and Michigan as Trafalgar are suggesting (albeit lose Pennsylvania and maybe Arizona to Biden) making Florida indeed again the key swing state both need to win

    So what is the concesus on Trafalgar? Is it a man making up numbers or are they real polls?
    I thought they were real polls until I looked again at the Michigan numbers. Here are their October, September and August polls.

    https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/mi-pres-1020/

    https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/mi-pres-0920/

    https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/mi-pres-0820/

    Look at he the Demographic Breakdowns and especially Congressional District Breakdowns.

    They are identical!

    The chance of that having stability to 1 decimal place in 3 polls is basically nil. They are either lying about how they are doing the polling or they are just making it up.

    Either way they are bullshiters

    Trafalgar of course the only pollsters to correctly have Trump ahead in Michigan and Pennsylvania in 2016.

    My goodness some on here are going to be eating lashings of humble pie on election night if Trafalgar are right again
  • Options
    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Has Toby Young's Free Speech Union come to the defence of Angela Rayner?

    https://twitter.com/ChrisClarksonMP/status/1318953306807521282

    Simple reply f*** off!
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    edited October 2020
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750
    edited October 2020
    He's either a thoughtful young man or has savvy advisers (which would still make him thoughtful compared to many), as I find his communications as shared this evening to be far more compelling than a thousand outraged 'passionate' voices on twitter (even if some of it is, perhaps necessarily, cliched).
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282
    Mal557 said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I actually think Trump could hold Wisconsin and Michigan as Trafalgar are suggesting (albeit lose Pennsylvania and maybe Arizona to Biden) making Florida indeed again the key swing state both need to win

    So what is the concesus on Trafalgar? Is it a man making up numbers or are they real polls?
    Robert's header a few days ago about his chat with the guy who runs it was very illuminating but I think the jury is still out, clearly in 2016 they hit some home runs but also missed a lot. I think if they call it right this time they will have a lot more credibility, its still quite possible last time was more luck than skill.

    Do they really find the 'shy trumpers' that others can't? I'm not convinced but if they do then we could end up with some kind of repeat of 2016 but even closer.

    With the guy doing the phoning turning every conversation toward Trump talking points? More likely to be generating shy democrats.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,993
    MrEd said:

    FYI

    https://www.vox.com/recode/2020/10/20/21523492/future-forward-super-pac-dustin-moskovitz-silicon-valley

    Biden’s superiority in fundraising is often cited as an example of how much more popular he is than Trump. Actually, a lot of it is driven by tech employees and their firms. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t count (it buys adverts) but shouldn’t be used as an example of how ordinary Americans are coming together to defeat Trump

    Do you have data on the number of individual contributors for each candidate?
  • Options
    Good, it was unpleasant language.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,674
    When Rashford first emerged into the political arena I wondered whether he was either an impressive young man or had excellent advisors.

    I've come to the conclusion that he's a very impressive young man.

    No one has advisors that good
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    edited October 2020

    Have we covered today’s Quinnipiac Texas poll?
    Biden 47% (+2)
    Trump 47% (-3)

    Changes from 23rd September.

    Quinnipiac had Hillary winning Florida and Pennsylvania in 2016 and Iowa tied, they lean Democrat
  • Options
    OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,282

    Has Toby Young's Free Speech Union come to the defence of Angela Rayner?

    https://twitter.com/ChrisClarksonMP/status/1318953306807521282

    That's so cringeworthy and po-faced I might have folded up.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,993
    MrEd said:

    FYI

    https://www.vox.com/recode/2020/10/20/21523492/future-forward-super-pac-dustin-moskovitz-silicon-valley

    Biden’s superiority in fundraising is often cited as an example of how much more popular he is than Trump. Actually, a lot of it is driven by tech employees and their firms. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t count (it buys adverts) but shouldn’t be used as an example of how ordinary Americans are coming together to defeat Trump

    Those Super PAC numbers won't be included in Biden's spend (just as Trump supporting PACs like America First Action aren't included in his).
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    eekeek Posts: 24,981

    Pulpstar said:

    Did @Tissue_Price vote to help the children or to keep his chances high of a junior ministerial post in time :) ?
    He chose his career over starving children.

    Well given that he probably has less than 4 more years as an MP he's got to make the most of it.
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079
    HYUFD said:
    That’s:

    Biden 45% (-3)
    Trump 45% (-1)

    Changes from 28th September.
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079
    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I actually think Trump could hold Wisconsin and Michigan as Trafalgar are suggesting (albeit lose Pennsylvania and maybe Arizona to Biden) making Florida indeed again the key swing state both need to win

    So what is the concesus on Trafalgar? Is it a man making up numbers or are they real polls?
    I thought they were real polls until I looked again at the Michigan numbers. Here are their October, September and August polls.

    https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/mi-pres-1020/

    https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/mi-pres-0920/

    https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/mi-pres-0820/

    Look at he the Demographic Breakdowns and especially Congressional District Breakdowns.

    They are identical!

    The chance of that having stability to 1 decimal place in 3 polls is basically nil. They are either lying about how they are doing the polling or they are just making it up.

    Either way they are bullshiters

    Trafalgar of course the only pollsters to correctly have Trump ahead in Michigan and Pennsylvania in 2016.

    My goodness some on here are going to be eating lashings of humble pie on election night if Trafalgar are right again
    Trafalgar was wrong in Michigan though.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750
    edited October 2020
    nichomar said:

    Has Toby Young's Free Speech Union come to the defence of Angela Rayner?

    https://twitter.com/ChrisClarksonMP/status/1318953306807521282

    Simple reply f*** off!
    Except apparently she has instead apologised (albeit it seems in a pretty token way), so she knows it was wrong, even if he's now making a meal of it, making defending it pretty pointless.
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079
    HYUFD said:

    Have we covered today’s Quinnipiac Texas poll?
    Biden 47% (+2)
    Trump 47% (-3)

    Changes from 23rd September.

    Quinnipiac had Hillary winning Florida and Pennsylvania in 2016 and Iowa tied, they lean Democrat
    Doesn’t mean they’re wrong this time.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,196
    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I actually think Trump could hold Wisconsin and Michigan as Trafalgar are suggesting (albeit lose Pennsylvania and maybe Arizona to Biden) making Florida indeed again the key swing state both need to win

    So what is the concesus on Trafalgar? Is it a man making up numbers or are they real polls?
    I thought they were real polls until I looked again at the Michigan numbers. Here are their October, September and August polls.

    https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/mi-pres-1020/

    https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/mi-pres-0920/

    https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/mi-pres-0820/

    Look at he the Demographic Breakdowns and especially Congressional District Breakdowns.

    They are identical!

    The chance of that having stability to 1 decimal place in 3 polls is basically nil. They are either lying about how they are doing the polling or they are just making it up.

    Either way they are bullshiters

    Trafalgar of course the only pollsters to correctly have Trump ahead in Michigan and Pennsylvania in 2016.

    My goodness some on here are going to be eating lashings of humble pie on election night if Trafalgar are right again
    For goodness sake! The guy may be politically astute, be good at guessing and lucky. None of that make him a pollster
  • Options
    OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,282
    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    FYI

    https://www.vox.com/recode/2020/10/20/21523492/future-forward-super-pac-dustin-moskovitz-silicon-valley

    Biden’s superiority in fundraising is often cited as an example of how much more popular he is than Trump. Actually, a lot of it is driven by tech employees and their firms. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t count (it buys adverts) but shouldn’t be used as an example of how ordinary Americans are coming together to defeat Trump

    Do you have data on the number of individual contributors for each candidate?
    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/15/actblues-stunning-third-quarter-15-billion-in-donations-429549

    For ActBlue (the big Dem grassroots platform) average $47. 31.4 million donations. 6.8 million donors
  • Options
    kle4 said:

    Alistair said:

    kle4 said:

    You know how often companies pay huge fines without admitting wrongdoing (which of course is the reason they pay the fine), well I see that Purdue, the makers of OxyContin, are paying $8.3bn and pleading guilty to at least some criminal charges.

    Just how hugely guilty must they have been to pay up and actually admit some wrongdoing?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54636002

    They engaged in a vast network of Bribery.

    8 billion and under a half dozen offences admitted is probably a good deal for them.
    I don't doubt it, given the flagrant abuses companies get away with without admitting anything.

    Spot the difference:

    The costs associated with building HS2, the high speed railway linking northern and southern England, have risen again.

    The news comes less than two months after construction officially began.

    Ministers have admitted an extra £800m is needed due to more asbestos being discovered and the complexities of bringing the railway into a new hub station at London Euston.

    Earlier this year the government gave HS2 a revised budget of £98bn after previous costings became unrealistic.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54538639

    The government has rejected a proposal for a £300m airport rail link saying it "would not offer value for money".

    Doncaster Sheffield Airport would have been joined to the East Coast mainline by 4.5 miles (7.2km) of new track.

    The plan's backers claimed it would create 72,000 new jobs and bring in £3.2bn of income to South Yorkshire.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-54632396

    Not good imagery for the government and likely to be repeated whenever a local transport investment doesn't happen.

    Perhaps my brain just refuses to retain it, but I really cannot recall why HS2 estimates were so out, and why rises always seem to be unforeseen. I know it is possible to estimate big projects correctly, or at least get close.
    It depends upon who is paying.

    Most people and organisations have a finite amount of money so there's a limit to what they can spend.

    Politicians and taxpayers money on the other hand ...
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750
    I don't actually particularly mind if someone is not very empathetic if I think they have other qualities which mean they would be good at the job, but heartwarming stuff does break through many a flinty exterior.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited October 2020
    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I actually think Trump could hold Wisconsin and Michigan as Trafalgar are suggesting (albeit lose Pennsylvania and maybe Arizona to Biden) making Florida indeed again the key swing state both need to win

    So what is the concesus on Trafalgar? Is it a man making up numbers or are they real polls?
    I thought they were real polls until I looked again at the Michigan numbers. Here are their October, September and August polls.

    https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/mi-pres-1020/

    https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/mi-pres-0920/

    https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/mi-pres-0820/

    Look at he the Demographic Breakdowns and especially Congressional District Breakdowns.

    They are identical!

    The chance of that having stability to 1 decimal place in 3 polls is basically nil. They are either lying about how they are doing the polling or they are just making it up.

    Either way they are bullshiters

    Trafalgar of course the only pollsters to correctly have Trump ahead in Michigan and Pennsylvania in 2016.

    My goodness some on here are going to be eating lashings of humble pie on election night if Trafalgar are right again
    Mate, if I guess numbers that end up matching the lottery that doesn't make me a genius and if I claim I used a method other than guessing then I am engaging in fraudulent behaviour.

    The Trafalgar numbers in 2020 are bullshit.

    He may have done legitimate polling in 2016 but right here, right now he is pumping out garbage and the evidence is all over the reports he is producing.
  • Options
    FPT footballers' wages.

    Surely players are on PAYE and not paid via companies? There did used to be an issue where image rights (as opposed to salaries) were paid via companies but even that was ended in one of the Hammond budgets iirc.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282

    kle4 said:

    Barnesian said:

    I'm beginning to plan for the US election night.
    I'm going to be home alone in Tier 2.
    I'll have PB for company and I'm idly thinking about setting up a Zoom meeting for anyone interested.
    We'd need to rename ourselves with our PB handle in the waiting room.
    What do you think?

    Interesting idea. Midweek is a bad time for, damn american elections being on a Tuesday.
    I know I will not sleep even if I wanted to, so booked the Wednesday off
    Rookie mistake, you should also take off the Tuesday.
    Wish I could but rude co-workers already stolen a march on me for tuesday
    Remarkable that the US election is exciting such interest among your co-workers
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Snapshot of real life on food vouchers - my Instagram index shows no action on it, no WhatsApp chatter either. Only seen one person in real life talk about it and they weren't 100% supportive, said that only people still on furlough should still get vouchers during holiday time.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,631
    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I actually think Trump could hold Wisconsin and Michigan as Trafalgar are suggesting (albeit lose Pennsylvania and maybe Arizona to Biden) making Florida indeed again the key swing state both need to win

    So what is the concesus on Trafalgar? Is it a man making up numbers or are they real polls?
    I thought they were real polls until I looked again at the Michigan numbers. Here are their October, September and August polls.

    https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/mi-pres-1020/

    https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/mi-pres-0920/

    https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/mi-pres-0820/

    Look at he the Demographic Breakdowns and especially Congressional District Breakdowns.

    They are identical!

    The chance of that having stability to 1 decimal place in 3 polls is basically nil. They are either lying about how they are doing the polling or they are just making it up.

    Either way they are bullshiters

    Trafalgar of course the only pollsters to correctly have Trump ahead in Michigan and Pennsylvania in 2016.

    My goodness some on here are going to be eating lashings of humble pie on election night if Trafalgar are right again
    The question is are they a pollster or a fraud? You can be a fraud and still be correct.

    Let me ask you if you went to a Doctor and asked if you had cancer and he got the answer right and you then found out he was a fraud would you go back to him?
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079
    edited October 2020

    FPT footballers' wages.

    Surely players are on PAYE and not paid via companies? There did used to be an issue where image rights (as opposed to salaries) were paid via companies but even that was ended in one of the Hammond budgets iirc.

    Yes I believe players are primarily on PAYE in this country. In fact someone once posted a footballer’s contract of employment and payslip on reddit.com/r/soccer. It was interesting - I wish I still had the link.
  • Options
    OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,282
    HYUFD said:
    Ipsos had Biden + 7 over the same period.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,994
    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I actually think Trump could hold Wisconsin and Michigan as Trafalgar are suggesting (albeit lose Pennsylvania and maybe Arizona to Biden) making Florida indeed again the key swing state both need to win

    So what is the concesus on Trafalgar? Is it a man making up numbers or are they real polls?
    I thought they were real polls until I looked again at the Michigan numbers. Here are their October, September and August polls.

    https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/mi-pres-1020/

    https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/mi-pres-0920/

    https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/mi-pres-0820/

    Look at he the Demographic Breakdowns and especially Congressional District Breakdowns.

    They are identical!

    The chance of that having stability to 1 decimal place in 3 polls is basically nil. They are either lying about how they are doing the polling or they are just making it up.

    Either way they are bullshiters

    Trafalgar of course the only pollsters to correctly have Trump ahead in Michigan and Pennsylvania in 2016.

    My goodness some on here are going to be eating lashings of humble pie on election night if Trafalgar are right again
    As are others if they are wrong! 😉
  • Options
    OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,282

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I actually think Trump could hold Wisconsin and Michigan as Trafalgar are suggesting (albeit lose Pennsylvania and maybe Arizona to Biden) making Florida indeed again the key swing state both need to win

    So what is the concesus on Trafalgar? Is it a man making up numbers or are they real polls?
    I thought they were real polls until I looked again at the Michigan numbers. Here are their October, September and August polls.

    https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/mi-pres-1020/

    https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/mi-pres-0920/

    https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/mi-pres-0820/

    Look at he the Demographic Breakdowns and especially Congressional District Breakdowns.

    They are identical!

    The chance of that having stability to 1 decimal place in 3 polls is basically nil. They are either lying about how they are doing the polling or they are just making it up.

    Either way they are bullshiters

    Trafalgar of course the only pollsters to correctly have Trump ahead in Michigan and Pennsylvania in 2016.

    My goodness some on here are going to be eating lashings of humble pie on election night if Trafalgar are right again
    As are others if they are wrong! 😉
    Trafalgar were useless in 2018 and have a deeply suspect methodology. So you put them in your polling average with appropriate weighting. You don't rely on them and breathlessly post them on every thread unless you are deeply invested in the outcome they're pushing.
  • Options
    OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,282
    MaxPB said:

    Snapshot of real life on food vouchers - my Instagram index shows no action on it, no WhatsApp chatter either. Only seen one person in real life talk about it and they weren't 100% supportive, said that only people still on furlough should still get vouchers during holiday time.

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2020/10/16/d4e21/3

    The polling suggests that it's a popular policy.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    FPT footballers' wages.

    Surely players are on PAYE and not paid via companies? There did used to be an issue where image rights (as opposed to salaries) were paid via companies but even that was ended in one of the Hammond budgets iirc.

    Yes I believe players are primarily on PAYE in this country. In fact someone once posted a footballer’s contract of employment and payslip on reddit.com/r/soccer. It was interesting - I wish I still had the link.
    Most premier league players are paid via a company because they have loads of sponsorship interests outside of the their wages.
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079
    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I actually think Trump could hold Wisconsin and Michigan as Trafalgar are suggesting (albeit lose Pennsylvania and maybe Arizona to Biden) making Florida indeed again the key swing state both need to win

    So what is the concesus on Trafalgar? Is it a man making up numbers or are they real polls?
    I thought they were real polls until I looked again at the Michigan numbers. Here are their October, September and August polls.

    https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/mi-pres-1020/

    https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/mi-pres-0920/

    https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/mi-pres-0820/

    Look at he the Demographic Breakdowns and especially Congressional District Breakdowns.

    They are identical!

    The chance of that having stability to 1 decimal place in 3 polls is basically nil. They are either lying about how they are doing the polling or they are just making it up.

    Either way they are bullshiters

    Trafalgar of course the only pollsters to correctly have Trump ahead in Michigan and Pennsylvania in 2016.

    My goodness some on here are going to be eating lashings of humble pie on election night if Trafalgar are right again
    Mate, if I guess numbers that end up matching the lottery that doesn't make me a genius and if I claim I used a method other than guessing then I am engaging in fraudulent behaviour.

    The Trafalgar numbers in 2020 are bullshit.

    He may have done legitimate polling in 2016 but right here, right now he is pumping out garbage and the evidence is all over the reports he is producing.
    If Trafalgar “forecast” Trump winning by 5% in a state, and Trump only won by 0.5%, @HYUFD would hail that as vindication, even if another pollster showed Biden winning by 0.5%.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited October 2020
    .
    HYUFD said:

    Have we covered today’s Quinnipiac Texas poll?
    Biden 47% (+2)
    Trump 47% (-3)

    Changes from 23rd September.

    Quinnipiac had Hillary winning Florida and Pennsylvania in 2016 and Iowa tied, they lean Democrat
    They lean D less than Trafalgar leans R.
  • Options
    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    kle4 said:

    You know how often companies pay huge fines without admitting wrongdoing (which of course is the reason they pay the fine), well I see that Purdue, the makers of OxyContin, are paying $8.3bn and pleading guilty to at least some criminal charges.

    Just how hugely guilty must they have been to pay up and actually admit some wrongdoing?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54636002

    My understanding is that they pushed the line that narcotics could be used for long term pain management with no fear of addiction, and paid doctors for prescribing Oxy, despite having research showing their claims to be false.
  • Options
    MaxPB said:

    Snapshot of real life on food vouchers - my Instagram index shows no action on it, no WhatsApp chatter either. Only seen one person in real life talk about it and they weren't 100% supportive, said that only people still on furlough should still get vouchers during holiday time.

    Its an issue which affects some of the bottom 10% and which makes some of the top 10% feel guilty.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    OnboardG1 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Snapshot of real life on food vouchers - my Instagram index shows no action on it, no WhatsApp chatter either. Only seen one person in real life talk about it and they weren't 100% supportive, said that only people still on furlough should still get vouchers during holiday time.

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2020/10/16/d4e21/3

    The polling suggests that it's a popular policy.
    I'm sure but my point is more that it hasn't made it into the voluntary conversation like last time which means the government won't take a big hit by saying no.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,631
    Alistair said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I actually think Trump could hold Wisconsin and Michigan as Trafalgar are suggesting (albeit lose Pennsylvania and maybe Arizona to Biden) making Florida indeed again the key swing state both need to win

    So what is the concesus on Trafalgar? Is it a man making up numbers or are they real polls?
    I thought they were real polls until I looked again at the Michigan numbers. Here are their October, September and August polls.

    https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/mi-pres-1020/

    https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/mi-pres-0920/

    https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/mi-pres-0820/

    Look at he the Demographic Breakdowns and especially Congressional District Breakdowns.

    They are identical!

    The chance of that having stability to 1 decimal place in 3 polls is basically nil. They are either lying about how they are doing the polling or they are just making it up.

    Either way they are bullshiters

    Thank you Alistair. Interesting. Can they be using a panel? Sorry if that is a silly question.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    Alistair said:

    .

    HYUFD said:

    Have we covered today’s Quinnipiac Texas poll?
    Biden 47% (+2)
    Trump 47% (-3)

    Changes from 23rd September.

    Quinnipiac had Hillary winning Florida and Pennsylvania in 2016 and Iowa tied, they lean Democrat
    They lean D less than Trafalgar leans R.
    Trafalgar were more right in the swing states in 2016 than Quinnipiac were
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,993
    HYUFD said:
    Now that's a proper poll.

    You can go in, and you can see the numbers.

    And there is no doubt they have genuinely carried it out.

    There's one issue there - however - that should lead to at least some pause.

    39% of their sample is a Registered Republican, 35% a Registered Democrat.

    Now, Wisconsin doesn't release registration by Party, but given that (in the US as a whole), the Democrats are ten points clear of the Republicans, we should compare that party breakdown with other pollsters.
  • Options
    OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,282
    MaxPB said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Snapshot of real life on food vouchers - my Instagram index shows no action on it, no WhatsApp chatter either. Only seen one person in real life talk about it and they weren't 100% supportive, said that only people still on furlough should still get vouchers during holiday time.

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2020/10/16/d4e21/3

    The polling suggests that it's a popular policy.
    I'm sure but my point is more that it hasn't made it into the voluntary conversation like last time which means the government won't take a big hit by saying no.
    There is a lot more news around right now which is probably washing it out. But I can't help but feel the government is just horribly in the wrong on this.
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079
    MaxPB said:

    FPT footballers' wages.

    Surely players are on PAYE and not paid via companies? There did used to be an issue where image rights (as opposed to salaries) were paid via companies but even that was ended in one of the Hammond budgets iirc.

    Yes I believe players are primarily on PAYE in this country. In fact someone once posted a footballer’s contract of employment and payslip on reddit.com/r/soccer. It was interesting - I wish I still had the link.
    Most premier league players are paid via a company because they have loads of sponsorship interests outside of the their wages.
    I don’t think that is the case: https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/pfa-premier-league-coronavirus-player-pay-cut-latest-news-a9447666.html
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750

    When Rashford first emerged into the political arena I wondered whether he was either an impressive young man or had excellent advisors.

    I've come to the conclusion that he's a very impressive young man.

    No one has advisors that good
    Pick a campaign you are emotionally invested in, use your high profile to speak simply and without theatrical flourishes on it, and do so repeatedly without getting too broad or sidetracked, and you'll win the PR battle every time, and win the political battle from time to time as well.

    I'm no political expert, and there is a time for invective, but so often people give their opponents an out by bringing in irrelevant issues or insulting behaviour, when it feels like if you are dogged enough you can wear them down if you give no excuse for them to deflect, and any attacks on you then seem petty.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    OnboardG1 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Ipsos had Biden + 7 over the same period.
    1. Republican 39%
    2.Democrat 32%
    3.Independent 19%
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,196
    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    .

    HYUFD said:

    Have we covered today’s Quinnipiac Texas poll?
    Biden 47% (+2)
    Trump 47% (-3)

    Changes from 23rd September.

    Quinnipiac had Hillary winning Florida and Pennsylvania in 2016 and Iowa tied, they lean Democrat
    They lean D less than Trafalgar leans R.
    Trafalgar were more right in the swing states in 2016 than Quinnipiac were
    But it is s guy reading tealeaves rather than assimilating polling evidence. He was just lucky.

    Someone in my school's dad won £330,000 on the football pools in 1971. He was lucky, but he was not an opinion pollster.
This discussion has been closed.