God knows I'm no fan of Farage, but jeez. Soubry said he looks like he has a finger up his jacksie and likes it. On national tv. Some considerable time before the watershed.
Who knows what votes, if any, will shift as a consequence - but if I was a kipperish swinger in her constituency (tries to empathise...) I wouldn't be impressed.
Not that I'm a fan of hers either; but now every time I see her I'll be imagining Farage's rear end.
On balance, Carola, I think Mike is partly right.
Farage would have capitalised on this more if he had returned some witty response. It was to that extent a missed opportunity.
But I don't see how this kind of thing, however trivial, can be helping DC, and it certainly won't help Ms Soubry.
God knows I'm no fan of Farage, but jeez. Soubry said he looks like he has a finger up his jacksie and likes it. On national tv. Some considerable time before the watershed.
Who knows what votes, if any, will shift as a consequence - but if I was a kipperish swinger in her constituency (tries to empathise...) I wouldn't be impressed.
Not that I'm a fan of hers either; but now every time I see her I'll be imagining Farage's rear end.
On balance, Carola, I think Mike is partly right.
Farage would have capitalised on this more if he had returned some witty response. It was to that extent a missed opportunity.
But I don't see how this kind of thing, however trivial, can be helping DC, and it certainly won't help Ms Soubry.
Think the non-muslim staff won;t be affected by this?? think again. Imagine having to deal with customers who've been shunted from a queue where a muslim won;t serve alcohol.
'Well, you're deigning to sell me alcohol, that's so big of you, I must say, how nice. I've only wasted twenty minutes due to somebody's religious beliefs. Think I'm going to keep shopping here..???
Or let's say you're a muslim on a checkout. Are you really going to refuse someone who says 'oh go on, its only one bottle, I'm sure Allah won;'t mind, its really busy in here, Oh come on I've been waiting for ages....oh please.....my car's on a meter.....
The people this idiocy hurts are Muslims who have integrated into wider British society. They have, yet again, been branded as 'different' to everyone else.
It also gives a boost to those extremists who are trying to stop the selling of alcohol at Asian restaurants in the East End.
All the papers have reports on it, however, I wonder if they will make an article in print. I assume the BBC news and ITV news have not mentioned it as it is before the watershed.
God knows I'm no fan of Farage, but jeez. Soubry said he looks like he has a finger up his jacksie and likes it. On national tv. Some considerable time before the watershed.
Who knows what votes, if any, will shift as a consequence - but if I was a kipperish swinger in her constituency (tries to empathise...) I wouldn't be impressed.
Not that I'm a fan of hers either; but now every time I see her I'll be imagining Farage's rear end.
On balance, Carola, I think Mike is partly right.
Farage would have capitalised on this more if he had returned some witty response. It was to that extent a missed opportunity.
But I don't see how this kind of thing, however trivial, can be helping DC, and it certainly won't help Ms Soubry.
Just in case anyone falls for the LibLabCon spin that Farage has no sense of humour, and UKIP are full of indignation etc etc, here is Farages immediate response to Soubry's vulgar comment
Just in case anyone falls for the LibLabCon spin that Farage has no sense of humour, and UKIP are full of indignation etc etc, here is Farages immediate response to Soubry's vulgar comment
Stephen Pollard @stephenpollard Trying to think of bigger PR disaster @marksandspencer could manage than allowing staff to decide if they agree with serving each customer.
Just in case anyone falls for the LibLabCon spin that Farage has no sense of humour, and UKIP are full of indignation etc etc, here is Farages immediate response to Soubry's vulgar comment
@tnewtondunn perhaps @anna_soubrymp should spend less time investigating digital rectal insertion and more on her brief?
He made a joke of it.
Still, people will believe what they want to believe...
The immediate response was fine (although I would have deleted the word "digital" because that makes it seem clunky).
It's the later response that is po-faced.
e.g. Farage, meanwhile, replied: "Soubry has stooped to the levels of crudity that any politician would spend a life time apologising for. This is supposed to be a professional woman representing her political party on a national television programme on a Sunday morning."
Just in case anyone falls for the LibLabCon spin that Farage has no sense of humour, and UKIP are full of indignation etc etc, here is Farages immediate response to Soubry's vulgar comment
Have any customers been interviewed about this, or stuck their heads above the parapet. The timing is odd, at time when M and S food sales are fine, but clothes & other sales are being achieved only at lower than expected margins.
It looks like a planted piece to upset the current senior management. Why now, not last week, last month or last Christmas. It looks like and smells like bullshit.
Just in case anyone falls for the LibLabCon spin that Farage has no sense of humour, and UKIP are full of indignation etc etc, here is Farages immediate response to Soubry's vulgar comment
@tnewtondunn perhaps @anna_soubrymp should spend less time investigating digital rectal insertion and more on her brief?
He made a joke of it.
Still, people will believe what they want to believe...
The immediate response was fine (although I would have deleted the word "digital" because that makes it seem clunky).
It's the later response that is po-faced.
e.g. Farage, meanwhile, replied: "Soubry has stooped to the levels of crudity that any politician would spend a life time apologising for. This is supposed to be a professional woman representing her political party on a national television programme on a Sunday morning."
God knows I'm no fan of Farage, but jeez. Soubry said he looks like he has a finger up his jacksie and likes it. On national tv. Some considerable time before the watershed.
Who knows what votes, if any, will shift as a consequence - but if I was a kipperish swinger in her constituency (tries to empathise...) I wouldn't be impressed.
Not that I'm a fan of hers either; but now every time I see her I'll be imagining Farage's rear end.
Just in case anyone falls for the LibLabCon spin that Farage has no sense of humour, and UKIP are full of indignation etc etc, here is Farages immediate response to Soubry's vulgar comment
On the M&S story, refusing to serve a customer buying your employer's products is surely gross misconduct and, therefore, a sackable offence. Has the company commented? This smells ever so slightly of something being made up or not reported quite right. It is also something that a lot of different people would want so much to be true - for a wide variety of reasons. If it is true, then M&S is in deep doggy-do.
Just in case anyone falls for the LibLabCon spin that Farage has no sense of humour, and UKIP are full of indignation etc etc, here is Farages immediate response to Soubry's vulgar comment
@tnewtondunn perhaps @anna_soubrymp should spend less time investigating digital rectal insertion and more on her brief?
He made a joke of it.
Still, people will believe what they want to believe...
The immediate response was fine (although I would have deleted the word "digital" because that makes it seem clunky).
It's the later response that is po-faced.
e.g. Farage, meanwhile, replied: "Soubry has stooped to the levels of crudity that any politician would spend a life time apologising for. This is supposed to be a professional woman representing her political party on a national television programme on a Sunday morning."
Just in case anyone falls for the LibLabCon spin that Farage has no sense of humour, and UKIP are full of indignation etc etc, here is Farages immediate response to Soubry's vulgar comment
On the M&S story, refusing to serve a customer buying your employer's products is surely gross misconduct and, therefore, a sackable offence. Has the company commented? This smells ever so slightly of something being made up or not reported quite right. It is also something that a lot of different people would want so much to be true - for a wide variety of reasons. If it is true, then M&S is in deep doggy-do.
I agree, it's so barmy, it can't be totally true. The Mail (I know, I know!) are reporting it as fact, along with other Supermarket responses. If it is true, then M&S better brace themselves, and look after any obviously Muslim employees, 'cos they'll get gangs of idiots targeting them, itching to get pork 'n' booze declined at the till.
Just in case anyone falls for the LibLabCon spin that Farage has no sense of humour, and UKIP are full of indignation etc etc, here is Farages immediate response to Soubry's vulgar comment
@tnewtondunn perhaps @anna_soubrymp should spend less time investigating digital rectal insertion and more on her brief?
He made a joke of it.
Still, people will believe what they want to believe...
The immediate response was fine (although I would have deleted the word "digital" because that makes it seem clunky).
It's the later response that is po-faced.
e.g. Farage, meanwhile, replied: "Soubry has stooped to the levels of crudity that any politician would spend a life time apologising for. This is supposed to be a professional woman representing her political party on a national television programme on a Sunday morning."
God knows I'm no fan of Farage, but jeez. Soubry said he looks like he has a finger up his jacksie and likes it. On national tv. Some considerable time before the watershed.
Who knows what votes, if any, will shift as a consequence - but if I was a kipperish swinger in her constituency (tries to empathise...) I wouldn't be impressed.
Not that I'm a fan of hers either; but now every time I see her I'll be imagining Farage's rear end.
Oh, Carola.
What a suppository!
Now that's* an image worse that Farage's rump.
Anyway... *eyes the pile of awkwardly-shaped presents that needs wrapping - and the weather forecast*. Seems I've picked a bad day to drive north tomorrow.
God knows I'm no fan of Farage, but jeez. Soubry said he looks like he has a finger up his jacksie and likes it. On national tv. Some considerable time before the watershed.
Who knows what votes, if any, will shift as a consequence - but if I was a kipperish swinger in her constituency (tries to empathise...) I wouldn't be impressed.
Not that I'm a fan of hers either; but now every time I see her I'll be imagining Farage's rear end.
On the M&S story, refusing to serve a customer buying your employer's products is surely gross misconduct and, therefore, a sackable offence. Has the company commented? This smells ever so slightly of something being made up or not reported quite right. It is also something that a lot of different people would want so much to be true - for a wide variety of reasons. If it is true, then M&S is in deep doggy-do.
On the M&S story, refusing to serve a customer buying your employer's products is surely gross misconduct and, therefore, a sackable offence. Has the company commented? This smells ever so slightly of something being made up or not reported quite right. It is also something that a lot of different people would want so much to be true - for a wide variety of reasons. If it is true, then M&S is in deep doggy-do.
I agree, it's so barmy, it can't be totally true. The Mail (I know, I know!) are reporting it as fact, along with other Supermarket responses. If it is true, then M&S better brace themselves, and look after any obviously Muslim employees, 'cos they'll get gangs of idiots targeting them, itching to get pork 'n' booze declined at the till.
Yup, M&S will have created a total turdstorm if it is true. It would be utterly crass, supine and self-defeating. That's why I can't believe there isn't a bit more to it than we has been reported.
I thought Soubry's comments vulgar and unbecoming a Member of Parliament never mind a Minister of the Crown, but perhaps I am too po-faced and old fashioned.
Why should Farage laugh off such vulgarity and why should every political exchange be reduced to narrow tactics?
This won't register with most people who are not interested in politics, but for those for whom it does register, it can only harm my party. Mike has been spending too much time talking with those in the Westminster bubble methinks.
On the M&S story, refusing to serve a customer buying your employer's products is surely gross misconduct and, therefore, a sackable offence. Has the company commented? This smells ever so slightly of something being made up or not reported quite right. It is also something that a lot of different people would want so much to be true - for a wide variety of reasons. If it is true, then M&S is in deep doggy-do.
I agree, it's so barmy, it can't be totally true. The Mail (I know, I know!) are reporting it as fact, along with other Supermarket responses. If it is true, then M&S better brace themselves, and look after any obviously Muslim employees, 'cos they'll get gangs of idiots targeting them, itching to get pork 'n' booze declined at the till.
Yup, M&S will have created a total turdstorm if it is true. It would be utterly crass, supine and self-defeating. That's why I can't believe there isn't a bit more to it than we has been reported.
I thought Soubry's comments vulgar and unbecoming a Member of Parliament never mind a Minister of the Crown, but perhaps I am too po-faced and old fashioned.
Why should Farage laugh off such vulgarity and why should every political exchange be reduced to narrow tactics?
This won't register with most people who are not interested in politics, but for those for whom it does register, it can only harm my party. Mike has been spending too much time talking with those in the Westminster bubble methinks.
'Rather than find a smart way to laugh it off Farage is coming over badly. A short quip would have done the trick.'
I agree Mike. Soubry is getting under Farage's skin and he's coming across as a wounded and petulant take-offence-monger. I sense Crosby's hand in this. Targeting party leaders with psychological warfare is a well-known practice in Aus. The Tories clearly feel Farage is vulnerable - a confidence player who needs to be loved - and are aiming to shatter his self-esteem. I think they're on to something.
Farage has more chance of being an MP after 2015 than Soubry does.
On the M&S story, refusing to serve a customer buying your employer's products is surely gross misconduct and, therefore, a sackable offence. Has the company commented? This smells ever so slightly of something being made up or not reported quite right. It is also something that a lot of different people would want so much to be true - for a wide variety of reasons. If it is true, then M&S is in deep doggy-do.
Crap, but not as crap as reported. The rule is anyone with any religious belief can raise an issue with management, which will work to accommodate it. That's just a general kow-towing to religion that makes M&S look very silly in my view. However, it's not just a moslem thing. I'm with Sainsbury's on this.
Can't see anything, but some poor bugger is going to have to devise ways of diffusing this. The story has a strong smell of taurean waste products, and I'm surprised that The Telegraph, Mirror and Mail thought that it is worth publicising.
It would have been funny if Cameron or Miliband was doing the shopping and the till operator said it them...
On the M&S story, refusing to serve a customer buying your employer's products is surely gross misconduct and, therefore, a sackable offence. Has the company commented? This smells ever so slightly of something being made up or not reported quite right. It is also something that a lot of different people would want so much to be true - for a wide variety of reasons. If it is true, then M&S is in deep doggy-do.
I agree, it's so barmy, it can't be totally true. The Mail (I know, I know!) are reporting it as fact, along with other Supermarket responses. If it is true, then M&S better brace themselves, and look after any obviously Muslim employees, 'cos they'll get gangs of idiots targeting them, itching to get pork 'n' booze declined at the till.
Yup, M&S will have created a total turdstorm if it is true. It would be utterly crass, supine and self-defeating. That's why I can't believe there isn't a bit more to it than we has been reported.
Why hasn't M&S PR responded yet? Or have they?
If it's not true, they should have killed it.
It looks like it is true, but to be fair the article says they let Jews have Saturday off and Christians Sunday, so its not just a muslim thing.
On the M&S story, refusing to serve a customer buying your employer's products is surely gross misconduct and, therefore, a sackable offence. Has the company commented? This smells ever so slightly of something being made up or not reported quite right. It is also something that a lot of different people would want so much to be true - for a wide variety of reasons. If it is true, then M&S is in deep doggy-do.
Crap, but not as crap as reported. The rule is anyone with any religious belief can raise an issue with management, which will work to accommodate it. That's just a general kow-towing to religion that makes M&S look very silly in my view. However, it's not just a moslem thing. I'm with Sainsbury's on this.
I agree. It is unusual to see religious beliefs tolerated these days by a major employer. Part of me thinks that's quite nice of them, but then again it must be bloody annoying if you've queued up for ages!
'Rather than find a smart way to laugh it off Farage is coming over badly. A short quip would have done the trick.'
I agree Mike. Soubry is getting under Farage's skin and he's coming across as a wounded and petulant take-offence-monger. I sense Crosby's hand in this. Targeting party leaders with psychological warfare is a well-known practice in Aus. The Tories clearly feel Farage is vulnerable - a confidence player who needs to be loved - and are aiming to shatter his self-esteem. I think they're on to something.
Farage has more chance of being an MP after 2015 than Soubry does.
Yeah, right. Tell me, which seat has he been selected for?
His experience in 2010 does not bode well for him.
Ex Conservative UKIP voters are reminded about 'Tory toxicity' and continue to vote UKIP. Ex Labour UKIP voters are reminded about 'Tory toxicity' and return to voting Labour
Back from Christmas shopping with Mrs Stodge - not as busy as I had expected but it may well be tomorrow will be manic as (if my office is anything to go by), a lot of people will be on leave.
Fantastic to see NZ win a test series and it looks a huge task for the Saffers to chase down the India target but we'll see.
I noted Avery/Seth yesterday comparing the Conservatives to a horse "four lengths off the leader on the home turn but still travelling on the bridle". Well, I've looked ahead to the General Election Handicap on May 7th 2015 run over one parliament for three year olds of all ages and the result is as follows:
1) Labour (People's Flag - Mister Eds) - soon prominent and led. Clear halfway but reeled in under pressure final furlong. Held on narrowly, one out all out. 2) Conservative (Blue Streak - Big Society) - behind early and challenged for second halfway. Rallied to press leader but hung right and left under pressure final furlong. Just failed. 3) Liberal Democrat (Yellow Peril - Gladstone's Folly) - soon well behind and struggling. No impression until took third close home. 4) UKIP (Better Off Out- Farrago) - chased up to challenge for second halfway. Soon ridden and faded under pressure. Lost third post.
Distances: who knows, who cares Time: 5 years
Ding, Dong.
Ding, Dong.
Here is the result of the Stewards Inquiry.
The Stewards held an inquiry following a report from a course official that the winner, Labour, untrained and ridden by Red Miliband, had taken the wrong course. Having heard evidence from the Clerk of the Course and the jockey and having viewed recordings of the race, the Stewards concluded the reported offence was self-evident and disqualified Labour, placing Conservative the winner and revising the placings of the following runners.
The Stewards also held an inquiry in an objection that Broxtowe Lass, who was unplaced, had interfered with UKIP at the Start of the race. Having reviewed video evidence of UKIP's reaction, the Stewards were satisfied that it did not involve a riding offence and dismissed the objection.
'Rather than find a smart way to laugh it off Farage is coming over badly. A short quip would have done the trick.'
I agree Mike. Soubry is getting under Farage's skin and he's coming across as a wounded and petulant take-offence-monger. I sense Crosby's hand in this. Targeting party leaders with psychological warfare is a well-known practice in Aus. The Tories clearly feel Farage is vulnerable - a confidence player who needs to be loved - and are aiming to shatter his self-esteem. I think they're on to something.
Farage has more chance of being an MP after 2015 than Soubry does.
Yeah, right. Tell me, which seat has he been selected for?
His experience in 2010 does not bode well for him.
He doesn't need to be selected. He can have his choice and its speculated that he will go for South Thanet. UKIP won 7 of the 8 County Council Seats in the area. The sitting Tory MP Sandys (only elected in 2010) has already thrown in the towel and is standing down in 2015 after only one term in Westminster. Farage was born just down the road and knows the seat well given he has fought it before,
If he stands in South Thanet he'd likely be favourite to win it. Soubry on the other hand is toast once Mr Palmer sorts her out.
'Rather than find a smart way to laugh it off Farage is coming over badly. A short quip would have done the trick.'
I agree Mike. Soubry is getting under Farage's skin and he's coming across as a wounded and petulant take-offence-monger. I sense Crosby's hand in this. Targeting party leaders with psychological warfare is a well-known practice in Aus. The Tories clearly feel Farage is vulnerable - a confidence player who needs to be loved - and are aiming to shatter his self-esteem. I think they're on to something.
Farage has more chance of being an MP after 2015 than Soubry does.
Yeah, right. Tell me, which seat has he been selected for?
His experience in 2010 does not bode well for him.
We could always have a wager on it, if neither get elected it would be DNB.
'Rather than find a smart way to laugh it off Farage is coming over badly. A short quip would have done the trick.'
I agree Mike. Soubry is getting under Farage's skin and he's coming across as a wounded and petulant take-offence-monger. I sense Crosby's hand in this. Targeting party leaders with psychological warfare is a well-known practice in Aus. The Tories clearly feel Farage is vulnerable - a confidence player who needs to be loved - and are aiming to shatter his self-esteem. I think they're on to something.
Farage has more chance of being an MP after 2015 than Soubry does.
Yeah, right. Tell me, which seat has he been selected for?
His experience in 2010 does not bode well for him.
He doesn't need to be selected. He can have his choice and its speculated that he will go for South Thanet. UKIP won 7 of the 8 County Council Seats in the area. The sitting Tory MP Sandys (only elected in 2010) has already thrown in the towel and is standing down in 2015 after only one term in Westminster. Farage was born just down the road and knows the seat well given he has fought it before,
If he stands in South Thanet he'd likely be favourite to win it.
He got 5% in ST in 2005. The UKIP candidate in 2010 got exactly 0.5% more.
In 2010 in Buckingham - with no Conservative, Labour or Lib Dem candidates standing - Farage got just 17.4%, well behind the 'Buckinghamshire Campaign for Democracy'.
You may be right, but his record at GE's is not good.
UKIP would be wise to look elsewhere for their first MP.
Isam ..What has having your religious day off got to do with refusing to serve customers?
Yes you have a point.. I suppose they are trying to use a bit of give and take, but ultimately all employees should be treated the same when they at work
"In response to the freedom of information request, the BBC released a 10-page executive briefing document wthat included biographies of the MPs and notes as to whether they have any ties to BBC employees.
The memo made reference to Margaret Hodge MP, the chair of the committee, noting that "Margaret's daughter works for the BBC as a producer" and that Richard Bacon MP was "married to Victoria, a BBC news producer". Of the Labour MP Austin Mitchell, the document said: "His second wife is the television director and journalist Linda McDougall and one of his daughters is a Radio 4 producer."
'Rather than find a smart way to laugh it off Farage is coming over badly. A short quip would have done the trick.'
I agree Mike. Soubry is getting under Farage's skin and he's coming across as a wounded and petulant take-offence-monger. I sense Crosby's hand in this. Targeting party leaders with psychological warfare is a well-known practice in Aus. The Tories clearly feel Farage is vulnerable - a confidence player who needs to be loved - and are aiming to shatter his self-esteem. I think they're on to something.
Farage has more chance of being an MP after 2015 than Soubry does.
Yeah, right. Tell me, which seat has he been selected for?
His experience in 2010 does not bode well for him.
We could always have a wager on it, if neither get elected it would be DNB.
I doubt Soubry will get elected - it's just a shame NP is not a more worthy candidate (oops, I'm stalking him again). I think Farage is overrated and, as I say, his track record as a candidate at GE's is poor.
2010 was particularly terrible. What are UKIP supporter's reasoning for why he did not do better in Buckingham? And surely the plane crash had little to do with it?
But I don't bet, sorry. Someone else might take you up.
'Rather than find a smart way to laugh it off Farage is coming over badly. A short quip would have done the trick.'
I agree Mike. Soubry is getting under Farage's skin and he's coming across as a wounded and petulant take-offence-monger. I sense Crosby's hand in this. Targeting party leaders with psychological warfare is a well-known practice in Aus. The Tories clearly feel Farage is vulnerable - a confidence player who needs to be loved - and are aiming to shatter his self-esteem. I think they're on to something.
Farage has more chance of being an MP after 2015 than Soubry does.
Yeah, right. Tell me, which seat has he been selected for?
His experience in 2010 does not bode well for him.
He doesn't need to be selected. He can have his choice and its speculated that he will go for South Thanet. UKIP won 7 of the 8 County Council Seats in the area. The sitting Tory MP Sandys (only elected in 2010) has already thrown in the towel and is standing down in 2015 after only one term in Westminster. Farage was born just down the road and knows the seat well given he has fought it before,
If he stands in South Thanet he'd likely be favourite to win it.
He got 5% in ST in 2005. The UKIP candidate in 2010 got exactly 0.5% more.
In 2010 in Buckingham - with no Conservative, Labour or Lib Dem candidates standing - Farage got just 17.4%, well behind the 'Buckinghamshire Campaign for Democracy'.
You may be right, but his record at GE's is not good.
UKIP would be wise to look elsewhere for their first MP.
Farage got 17% in Buckingham when his party got 3% nationally in the election. He also got double the party's national figure in 2005. His party are currently polling 30% in South Thanet. Chances are he will increase the not inconsiderable UKIP vote in South Thanet if he stands there but you can believe what you want.
Tories can fantasise about how bad he is. They could even portray him with red eyes if they like. They are good at that sort of thing.
Compared (unfavourably) to Danny. Oh, the humiliation.
LOL
Hilarious isn't it?
Talk about damning with the faintest of praise.
It's also wrong because the people the tories really need to win back are the ones least likely to be laughing about this. The ones laughing at it anyway are those who would most respond to humour and who don't much care about Farage.
But I suppose Cleggites/Cameroons have to look for any kind of solace after incompetent stupidity like Soubry displayed. Regardless of the reaction it was just a massively dumb thing to say on a morning TV show. Not quite as dumb as calling kippers fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists of course, but still wonderfully dumb and alienating to those tory/UKIP waverers and activists who will be even more inclined to think Cammie's chumocracy is full of out of touch twits.
On the M&S story, refusing to serve a customer buying your employer's products is surely gross misconduct and, therefore, a sackable offence. Has the company commented? This smells ever so slightly of something being made up or not reported quite right. It is also something that a lot of different people would want so much to be true - for a wide variety of reasons. If it is true, then M&S is in deep doggy-do.
Crap, but not as crap as reported. The rule is anyone with any religious belief can raise an issue with management, which will work to accommodate it. That's just a general kow-towing to religion that makes M&S look very silly in my view. However, it's not just a moslem thing. I'm with Sainsbury's on this.
I agree. It is unusual to see religious beliefs tolerated these days by a major employer. Part of me thinks that's quite nice of them, but then again it must be bloody annoying if you've queued up for ages!
I think it's good that the supermarkets are on the ball with trying to accommodate all religions, it's just the bit about till operators "refusing" to scan alcohol or pork. That would seriously pee me off if it happened to me. It's nuts if M&S actually allow that.They should just canvas their Muslim staff, and the ones who don't wasn't to handle the offending articles shouldn't be put on the tills, saving upset and embarrassment all around.
If you work in a shop that sells alcohol you should serve it. Its not as if you did not know they did when you signed up. I wonder if people would be accommodating if an atheist who worked at Waterstones refused to sell bibles or korans?
If you work in a shop that sells alcohol you should serve it. Its not as if you did not know they did when you signed up. I wonder if people would be accommodating if an atheist who worked at Waterstones refused to sell bibles or korans? People are getting far too fussy and self centred in many areas of modern life.
Stephen Pollard @stephenpollard Trying to think of bigger PR disaster @marksandspencer could manage than allowing staff to decide if they agree with serving each customer.
Perhaps they'll refine their policy, and add a 'halal & kosher only' checkout, next to the 12 items or less one.
I think it's good that the supermarkets are on the ball with trying to accommodate all religions, it's just the bit about till operators "refusing" to scan alcohol or pork. That would seriously pee me off if it happened to me. It's nuts if M&S actually allow that.They should just canvas their Muslim staff, and the ones who don't wasn't to handle the offending articles shouldn't be put on the tills, saving upset and embarrassment all around.
It isn't just for people buying alcohol and pork. What if someone in front of you is stopped and you're held up?
Perhaps the answer is not to join a queue where a muslim is serving, assuming they can be identified.
'Rather than find a smart way to laugh it off Farage is coming over badly. A short quip would have done the trick.'
I agree Mike. Soubry is getting under Farage's skin and he's coming across as a wounded and petulant take-offence-monger. I sense Crosby's hand in this. Targeting party leaders with psychological warfare is a well-known practice in Aus. The Tories clearly feel Farage is vulnerable - a confidence player who needs to be loved - and are aiming to shatter his self-esteem. I think they're on to something.
Farage has more chance of being an MP after 2015 than Soubry does.
Yeah, right. Tell me, which seat has he been selected for?
His experience in 2010 does not bode well for him.
He doesn't need to be selected. He can have his choice and its speculated that he will go for South Thanet. UKIP won 7 of the 8 County Council Seats in the area. The sitting Tory MP Sandys (only elected in 2010) has already thrown in the towel and is standing down in 2015 after only one term in Westminster. Farage was born just down the road and knows the seat well given he has fought it before,
If he stands in South Thanet he'd likely be favourite to win it.
He got 5% in ST in 2005. The UKIP candidate in 2010 got exactly 0.5% more.
In 2010 in Buckingham - with no Conservative, Labour or Lib Dem candidates standing - Farage got just 17.4%, well behind the 'Buckinghamshire Campaign for Democracy'.
You may be right, but his record at GE's is not good.
UKIP would be wise to look elsewhere for their first MP.
Farage got 17% in Buckingham when his party got 3% nationally in the election. He also got double the party's national figure in 2005. His party are currently polling 30% in South Thanet. Chances are he will increase the not inconsiderable UKIP vote in South Thanet if he stands there but you can believe what you want.
Tories can fantasise about how bad he is. They could even portray him with red eyes if they like. They are good at that sort of thing.
Don't give me that rubbish about Farage in Buckingham. He was facing no LAB, CON or LD candidates - just Bercow and a Pro-EU Tory who beat him to 2nd place by 6%.
The fact that his idea of what a canddate should be doing on polling day (flying above the constituency in a light plane) says all you need to know about his understanding of elections
Farage has more chance of being an MP after 2015 than Soubry does.
Yeah, right. Tell me, which seat has he been selected for?
His experience in 2010 does not bode well for him.
He doesn't need to be selected. He can have his choice and its speculated that he will go for South Thanet. UKIP won 7 of the 8 County Council Seats in the area. The sitting Tory MP Sandys (only elected in 2010) has already thrown in the towel and is standing down in 2015 after only one term in Westminster. Farage was born just down the road and knows the seat well given he has fought it before,
If he stands in South Thanet he'd likely be favourite to win it.
He got 5% in ST in 2005. The UKIP candidate in 2010 got exactly 0.5% more.
In 2010 in Buckingham - with no Conservative, Labour or Lib Dem candidates standing - Farage got just 17.4%, well behind the 'Buckinghamshire Campaign for Democracy'.
You may be right, but his record at GE's is not good.
UKIP would be wise to look elsewhere for their first MP.
Farage got 17% in Buckingham when his party got 3% nationally in the election. He also got double the party's national figure in 2005. His party are currently polling 30% in South Thanet. Chances are he will increase the not inconsiderable UKIP vote in South Thanet if he stands there but you can believe what you want.
Tories can fantasise about how bad he is. They could even portray him with red eyes if they like. They are good at that sort of thing.
It's not fantasy to point out the cold, hard facts. In Buckingham he had no opposition from the main parties - just a speaker who was (AFAICR) controversial, even that short time into his position. People were saying it was a two-man fight.
Instead he came third behind an independent. His 17% was terrible given the massive amounts of publicity the contest was getting before the GE. He stood down as leader a year before in order to concentrate on winning the seat. He didn't just lose in Buckingham: he was slaughtered.
Every time he's stood, he's finished well behind. What's the biggest percentage he's had as a candidate? 17% over six elections. And he's an MEP as a result of the party list system.
What is more, ST also seems a strange choice. It's a two way, Labour-Conservative seat. He would need to attract a good percentage of voters from both those parties in order to win. As I say, his track record indicates that he won't do it.
'Rather than find a smart way to laugh it off Farage is coming over badly. A short quip would have done the trick.'
I agree Mike. Soubry is getting under Farage's skin and he's coming across as a wounded and petulant take-offence-monger. I sense Crosby's hand in this. Targeting party leaders with psychological warfare is a well-known practice in Aus. The Tories clearly feel Farage is vulnerable - a confidence player who needs to be loved - and are aiming to shatter his self-esteem. I think they're on to something.
Farage has more chance of being an MP after 2015 than Soubry does.
Yeah, right. Tell me, which seat has he been selected for?
His experience in 2010 does not bode well for him.
We could always have a wager on it, if neither get elected it would be DNB.
I doubt Soubry will get elected - it's just a shame NP is not a more worthy candidate (oops, I'm stalking him again). I think Farage is overrated and, as I say, his track record as a candidate at GE's is poor.
2010 was particularly terrible. What are UKIP supporter's reasoning for why he did not do better in Buckingham? And surely the plane crash had little to do with it?
But I don't bet, sorry. Someone else might take you up.
In the M & S store on the arab and hence muslim dominated Edgware Road , some muslim staff wear gloves when on the till , presumably to avoid touching heathen items . As long as it does not pose a health risk I suppose that is ok but blatantly being a prima donna and refusing to sell something in the shop you work is not to be allowed .
'Rather than find a smart way to laugh it off Farage is coming over badly. A short quip would have done the trick.'
I agree Mike. Soubry is getting under Farage's skin and he's coming across as a wounded and petulant take-offence-monger. I sense Crosby's hand in this. Targeting party leaders with psychological warfare is a well-known practice in Aus. The Tories clearly feel Farage is vulnerable - a confidence player who needs to be loved - and are aiming to shatter his self-esteem. I think they're on to something.
Farage has more chance of being an MP after 2015 than Soubry does.
Yeah, right. Tell me, which seat has he been selected for?
His experience in 2010 does not bode well for him.
He doesn't need to be selected. He can have his choice and its speculated that he will go for South Thanet. UKIP won 7 of the 8 County Council Seats in the area. The sitting Tory MP Sandys (only elected in 2010) has already thrown in the towel and is standing down in 2015 after only one term in Westminster. Farage was born just down the road and knows the seat well given he has fought it before,
If he stands in South Thanet he'd likely be favourite to win it.
He got 5% in ST in 2005. The UKIP candidate in 2010 got exactly 0.5% more.
In 2010 in Buckingham - with no Conservative, Labour or Lib Dem candidates standing - Farage got just 17.4%, well behind the 'Buckinghamshire Campaign for Democracy'.
You may be right, but his record at GE's is not good.
UKIP would be wise to look elsewhere for their first MP.
Farage got 17% in Buckingham when his party got 3% nationally in the election. He also got double the party's national figure in 2005. His party are currently polling 30% in South Thanet. Chances are he will increase the not inconsiderable UKIP vote in South Thanet if he stands there but you can believe what you want.
Tories can fantasise about how bad he is. They could even portray him with red eyes if they like. They are good at that sort of thing.
Don't give me that rubbish about Farage in Buckingham. He was facing no LAB, CON or LD candidates - just Bercow and a Pro-EU Tory who beat him to 2nd place by 6%.
The fact that his idea of what a canddate should be doing on polling day (flying above the constituency in a light plane) says all you need to know about his understanding of elections
There are about two or three seats where if Farage stood , he would win imo . Presumably Mike must think so as well as hasn't he got a good long odds bet on UKIP nabbing a couple?
'Rather than find a smart way to laugh it off Farage is coming over badly. A short quip would have done the trick.'
I agree Mike. Soubry is getting under Farage's skin and he's coming across as a wounded and petulant take-offence-monger. I sense Crosby's hand in this. Targeting party leaders with psychological warfare is a well-known practice in Aus. The Tories clearly feel Farage is vulnerable - a confidence player who needs to be loved - and are aiming to shatter his self-esteem. I think they're on to something.
Farage has more chance of being an MP after 2015 than Soubry does.
Yeah, right. Tell me, which seat has he been selected for?
His experience in 2010 does not bode well for him.
We could always have a wager on it, if neither get elected it would be DNB.
I doubt Soubry will get elected - it's just a shame NP is not a more worthy candidate (oops, I'm stalking him again). I think Farage is overrated and, as I say, his track record as a candidate at GE's is poor.
2010 was particularly terrible. What are UKIP supporter's reasoning for why he did not do better in Buckingham? And surely the plane crash had little to do with it?
But I don't bet, sorry. Someone else might take you up.
That's OK, thought you would bottle it
No bottling it: I don't bet. But I've given my reasons why I think you're wrong.
James Worron @JamesWorron M&S staff who do not believe in Father Christmas must now stand firm on selling Yuletide products. #seetheproblemyet -------------------------- M&S @thedannycxp .@sambakey Pleased to hear Sam We torture all our turkeys relentlessly for months, to give it that extra yummy halal flavour. ------------------------- Colin charlton @bombardier735 @JamesWorron@sarahandrews77 who comes up with those ideas? Soon all shops will be open on Christmas. .which will be banned soon
As for Anna Soubry, What were you thinking? You can just about get away with being vulgar , homophobic or juvenile but not sure ,as a government minister you can get away with a combination of all three.
As for Anna Soubry, What were you thinking? You can just about get away with being either vulgar , or homophobic or juvenile but not sure ,as a government minister you can get away with a combination of all three.
It's not fantasy to point out the cold, hard facts.
Here's two figures that aren't fantasy but cold, hard facts. 3.1% and 16.5%. Why do they matter?
Martin Kettle lays it out nicely and this was way, way before the kipper surge this year.
From 2009's 16.5% in the Europeans, Ukip slumped to 3.1% in the 2010 general election. A disastrous fall? Undoubtedly. The party crumpled. But that 3.1% – still nearly a million votes – may have made some of the difference between a hung parliament and an outright Tory win. Small though it was, the Ukip vote exceeded the majority in 21 marginals the Tories failed to win in 2010, including Ed Balls's seat in West Yorkshire. If Ukip does as so many expect, and fares even better in the 2014 Europeans than in 2009, the Tory fear of a palpable Ukip effect in the 2015 general election will be even greater than before, even if Ukip's vote tanks again as it did in 2010. Any Conservative with a majority of 1,500 votes or fewer may be at risk.
As for Anna Soubry, What were you thinking? You can just about get away with being vulgar , homophobic or juvenile but not sure ,as a government minister you can get away with a combination of all three.
Especially as a white woman - like Nigella the backlash of the sexist left will be swift and nasty.
There are about two or three seats where if Farage stood , he would win imo . Presumably Mike must think so as well as hasn't he got a good long odds bet on UKIP nabbing a couple?
IMHO, if UKIP are to win seats, it will be in places where:
1) the candidate has been in place for some time (and perhaps even stood in 2010), 2) there is only a Conservative opposition where (s)he can appeal to both Labour and Lib Dem tactical voters, 3) the candidate has been working really hard on groundwork for a few years, 4) there is a good ground campaign, 5) the candidate is a good political operator.
Basically, what the Lib Dems have been doing for some time, and the Greens did in Brighton Pavilion.
The exception to the above will be if there is a seismic shift. Sadly, that is just as likely to happen against UKIP than for them.
As for Anna Soubry, What were you thinking? You can just about get away with being vulgar , homophobic or juvenile but not sure ,as a government minister you can get away with a combination of all three.
I notice that The BBC are keeping a very low profile on this matter: so low as to be invisible.
I think it's good that the supermarkets are on the ball with trying to accommodate all religions, it's just the bit about till operators "refusing" to scan alcohol or pork. That would seriously pee me off if it happened to me. It's nuts if M&S actually allow that.They should just canvas their Muslim staff, and the ones who don't wasn't to handle the offending articles shouldn't be put on the tills, saving upset and embarrassment all around.
It isn't just for people buying alcohol and pork. What if someone in front of you is stopped and you're held up?
Perhaps the answer is not to join a queue where a muslim is serving, assuming they can be identified.
In the supermarkets I go to there are cashiers sometimes who aren't allowed to sell alcohol because of their age. When they come to a bottle they push a button and a supervisor beetles over and scans that one item and then beetles off again. Civilisation does not collapse. This story really is even more of a non-issue than it looks.
On Soubry, the finger gag was a highly specific and targeted bit of smut: it was the sort of thing Jeremy Hardy says on the News Quiz and unquestionably designed to get her that kind of gig post 2015, i would have thought.
It's not fantasy to point out the cold, hard facts.
Here's two figures that aren't fantasy but cold, hard facts. 3.1% and 16.5%. Why do they matter?
Martin Kettle lays it out nicely and this was way, way before the kipper surge this year.
From 2009's 16.5% in the Europeans, Ukip slumped to 3.1% in the 2010 general election. A disastrous fall? Undoubtedly. The party crumpled. But that 3.1% – still nearly a million votes – may have made some of the difference between a hung parliament and an outright Tory win. Small though it was, the Ukip vote exceeded the majority in 21 marginals the Tories failed to win in 2010, including Ed Balls's seat in West Yorkshire. If Ukip does as so many expect, and fares even better in the 2014 Europeans than in 2009, the Tory fear of a palpable Ukip effect in the 2015 general election will be even greater than before, even if Ukip's vote tanks again as it did in 2010. Any Conservative with a majority of 1,500 votes or fewer may be at risk.
Anyone know how bad this storm is likely to be tomorrow. I have to travel to London by train in the morning and really don't want to be stranded there overnight!
Anyone know how bad this storm is likely to be tomorrow. I have to travel to London by train in the morning and really don't want to be stranded there overnight!
Where are you going from? If it is a 25KV electrified line (i.e. overhead wires) then storms easily take them out. There are also expected to be floods.
Yep, absolutely. The chances are UKIP will lose the Conservatives the next election, gifting power to a pro-Europe Labour Party.
From a pro-Europe Tory party under Cammie's leadership. Which I think the kippers and waverers will have noticed by now since Cameron's own backbenchers are all too painfully aware of it and his Cst Iron pledges. Good luck with 'Vote Farage Get Miliband' since there's no way on earth that will further alienate kipper tory waverers.
It's also bound to work as we can plainly see here.
Vote Clegg and you'll get Gordon Brown: As Lib Dems lead polls, Cameron warns Labour could be the winner
David Cameron is warning voters that if they switch to the resurgent Liberal Democrats they will 'vote Clegg, get Brown'.
But we were discussing whether Farage would win a seat, which is a very different thing ...
Not that different since the fate of Farage isn't going to just be decided by which seat he chooses or indeed what he did five years ago but just how strongly the kipper vote and VI is around 2015. He may get get boosted by a strong kipper VI and an increased membership/activist base or try to play down the drop from the EU elections and concentrate everything on his chosen seats and a few others. More than likely both if truth be told.
It's not fantasy to point out the cold, hard facts.
Here's two figures that aren't fantasy but cold, hard facts. 3.1% and 16.5%. Why do they matter?
Martin Kettle lays it out nicely and this was way, way before the kipper surge this year.
From 2009's 16.5% in the Europeans, Ukip slumped to 3.1% in the 2010 general election. A disastrous fall? Undoubtedly. The party crumpled. But that 3.1% – still nearly a million votes – may have made some of the difference between a hung parliament and an outright Tory win. Small though it was, the Ukip vote exceeded the majority in 21 marginals the Tories failed to win in 2010, including Ed Balls's seat in West Yorkshire. If Ukip does as so many expect, and fares even better in the 2014 Europeans than in 2009, the Tory fear of a palpable Ukip effect in the 2015 general election will be even greater than before, even if Ukip's vote tanks again as it did in 2010. Any Conservative with a majority of 1,500 votes or fewer may be at risk.
Heh. I was in Nottingham on Wednesday, watching the Hobbit. Had an awful drive back from Gedling avoiding fallen branches on flooded roads ...
There's knitting south of Bedford, but I don't think it's as prone to winds as those on the East Coast line near me.
The storms are due to hit here in Cambridge at about midday, and last about twelve hours. I'd keep an eye on the forecasts and on travel advisories.
Yes thanks , I need to run a payroll so I really have to go . If I can get back on the day I will take the train even if I get in past midnight but if think all services will be cancelled will have to get the car out .Will get up early tomorrow to see
It's not fantasy to point out the cold, hard facts.
Here's two figures that aren't fantasy but cold, hard facts. 3.1% and 16.5%. Why do they matter?
Martin Kettle lays it out nicely and this was way, way before the kipper surge this year.
From 2009's 16.5% in the Europeans, Ukip slumped to 3.1% in the 2010 general election. A disastrous fall? Undoubtedly. The party crumpled. But that 3.1% – still nearly a million votes – may have made some of the difference between a hung parliament and an outright Tory win. Small though it was, the Ukip vote exceeded the majority in 21 marginals the Tories failed to win in 2010, including Ed Balls's seat in West Yorkshire. If Ukip does as so many expect, and fares even better in the 2014 Europeans than in 2009, the Tory fear of a palpable Ukip effect in the 2015 general election will be even greater than before, even if Ukip's vote tanks again as it did in 2010. Any Conservative with a majority of 1,500 votes or fewer may be at risk.
He got 5% in ST in 2005. The UKIP candidate in 2010 got exactly 0.5% more.
In 2010 in Buckingham - with no Conservative, Labour or Lib Dem candidates standing - Farage got just 17.4%, well behind the 'Buckinghamshire Campaign for Democracy'.
You may be right, but his record at GE's is not good.
UKIP would be wise to look elsewhere for their first MP.
Farage got 17% in Buckingham when his party got 3% nationally in the election. He also got double the party's national figure in 2005. His party are currently polling 30% in South Thanet. Chances are he will increase the not inconsiderable UKIP vote in South Thanet if he stands there but you can believe what you want.
Tories can fantasise about how bad he is. They could even portray him with red eyes if they like. They are good at that sort of thing.
Don't give me that rubbish about Farage in Buckingham. He was facing no LAB, CON or LD candidates - just Bercow and a Pro-EU Tory who beat him to 2nd place by 6%.
The fact that his idea of what a canddate should be doing on polling day (flying above the constituency in a light plane) says all you need to know about his understanding of elections
Bercow commanded 57.4% of the vote (over 27,000 votes) in 2005. Given the poor showing elsewhere for the Tories that was no small achievement. He had an 18.000 majority. Whilst unpopular in Westminster in certain circles, I believe he was well regarded as a constituency MP. The Anti Tory vote (Lab & LD) amounted to around 19,000 votes. Most of that vote would never have voted for a Eurosceptic UKIP candidate and given that the pro-EU Tory was hiding behind the label "Buckinghamshire Campaign for Democracy" its not difficult to imagine a large proportion of the (less switched on) anti-tory vote plumping for a sound 'Pro-European' who opposed the supposed ' extreme right wing swivel-eyed nutter' when their normal choice was not available. The fact Stevens did not show his true colours was a cute piece of deception.
Bercow being the incumbent was always likely to keep a large portion of his vote. That said his vote fell by over 5,000 and arguably that and the residue of the non Tory vote was picked up by Farage who increased the UKIP vote by almost 7,000.
Now there was a 12% swing from Bercow to UKIP. I imagine most candidates would be greatly encouraged by such an improvement but Farage is different. How dare he not win a seat where all he had to do was topple an 18,000 majority and 57.4% vote share. After all such seats change hands all the time in general elections.
It's not fantasy to point out the cold, hard facts.
Here's two figures that aren't fantasy but cold, hard facts. 3.1% and 16.5%. Why do they matter?
Martin Kettle lays it out nicely and this was way, way before the kipper surge this year.
From 2009's 16.5% in the Europeans, Ukip slumped to 3.1% in the 2010 general election. A disastrous fall? Undoubtedly. The party crumpled. But that 3.1% – still nearly a million votes – may have made some of the difference between a hung parliament and an outright Tory win. Small though it was, the Ukip vote exceeded the majority in 21 marginals the Tories failed to win in 2010, including Ed Balls's seat in West Yorkshire. If Ukip does as so many expect, and fares even better in the 2014 Europeans than in 2009, the Tory fear of a palpable Ukip effect in the 2015 general election will be even greater than before, even if Ukip's vote tanks again as it did in 2010. Any Conservative with a majority of 1,500 votes or fewer may be at risk.
Yep, absolutely. The chances are UKIP will lose the Conservatives the next election, gifting power to a pro-Europe Labour Party.
You mean we could end up swapping one pro-EU party for another pro-EU party. Gee what a dilemma.
The way things stand, you have more chance of getting a referendum with the Conservatives than you do with Labour. It may be a small chance, but it's still bigger, and there are far more people within the party receptive to reining in Europe. And bar a seismic shift, UKIP aren't going to be anywhere near power in 2015.
IMO, a problem UKIP has is that the full BOO opinion is not shared by a vast proportion of the population. Many - like me - are concerned about Europe's powers, and would like to have some of them back. I'm not really keen on leaving everything to do with Europe or the EU altogether.
Saying that, I'd vote out of the EU if it came to a choice between that and joining the Euro.
This middle ground is shared by many. I get the impression that aside from a core vote, UKIP's vote at locals is largely a protest vote at the other parties - that is certainly what we have seen in the past, when gains in the Euros and locals have dissolved at GEs.
Their challenge will be in addressing that problem.
Bercow commanded 57.4% of the vote (over 27,000 votes) in 2005. Given the poor showing elsewhere for the Tories that was no small achievement. He had an 18.000 majority. Whilst unpopular in Westminster in certain circles, I believe he was well regarded as a constituency MP. The Anti Tory vote (Lab & LD) amounted to around 19,000 votes. Most of that vote would never have voted for a Eurosceptic UKIP candidate and given that the pro-EU Tory was hiding behind the label "Buckinghamshire Campaign for Democracy" its not difficult to imagine a large proportion of the (less switched on) anti-tory vote plumping for a sound 'Pro-European' who opposed the supposed ' extreme right wing swivel-eyed nutter' when their normal choice was not available. The fact Stevens did not show his true colours was a cute piece of deception.
Bercow being the incumbent was always likely to keep a large portion of his vote. That said his vote fell by over 5,000 and arguably that and the residue of the non Tory vote was picked up by Farage who increased the UKIP vote by almost 7,000.
Now there was a 12% swing from Bercow to UKIP. I imagine most candidates would be greatly encouraged by such an improvement but Farage is different. How dare he not win a seat where all he had to do was topple an 18,000 majority and 57.4% vote share. After all such seats change hands all the time in general elections.
Given the publicity the fight was getting, he should have done much better. People were saying he would win. He came a very lowly third, despite not facing a campaign by the other main parties.
Face it: when it comes to GE's, Farage is a failure. That may change, but I doubt it.
Ukip want to play the political class sleaziness angle not the outrage angle imo.
And bear in mind a Tory ex-minister might be up on child abuse charges within a few days with questions hanging over whether it was covered up or not. That would make a convenient backdrop to any sleaziness based response - although having said that the halal story looks like it might drown it so dunno.
The funny thing about the second is it might not have been asked by muslims but PC types getting offended on their behalf as a vehicle for a bit of moral bullying / superiority / one-up-man-ship which is the essence of PC - atheist puritanism.
The way things stand, you have more chance of getting a referendum with the Conservatives than you do with Labour. It may be a small chance, but it's still bigger, and there are far more people within the party receptive to reining in Europe. And bar a seismic shift, UKIP aren't going to be anywhere near power in 2015.
IMO, a problem UKIP has is that the full BOO opinion is not shared by a vast proportion of the population. Many - like me - are concerned about Europe's powers, and would like to have some of them back. I'm not really keen on leaving everything to do with Europe or the EU altogether.
Saying that, I'd vote out of the EU if it came to a choice between that and joining the Euro.
This middle ground is shared by many. I get the impression that aside from a core vote, UKIP's vote at locals is largely a protest vote at the other parties - that is certainly what we have seen in the past, when gains in the Euros and locals have dissolved at GEs.
Their challenge will be in addressing that problem.
The way things stand we have a hell of a lot more chance of winning a referendum if the Tories lose the next election. What you and the middle of the roaders continually fail to understand is that the EU you want cannot and will not ever exist. Unfortunately Cameron will try and may well succeed in conning enough people to believe his myth so that they will vote to stay in. I have no illusions about that.
For me at least the very best situation would be with Miliband feeling the pressure before the next election and cracking by committing to a referendum.If he then won the election - as I believe he probably will anyway - he would then ideally be faced with a new truly Eurosceptic Tpry leader whilst at the same time having to meet the idiotic promises he had made before the election. Something I have no doubt he would fail to do.
The prospect of an unpopular Labour leader campaigning for continued membership of a deeply unpopular EU would be the perfect storm for Eurosceptics.
I am not saying this is going to happen of course. It is just a hell of a lot more likely a scenario for seeing us actually leave the EU than a Cameron backed referendum after he comes back with a pocket full of lies about non existent EU concessions.
Ukip want to play the political class sleaziness angle not the outrage angle imo.
And bear in mind a Tory ex-minister might be up on child abuse charges within a few days with questions hanging over whether it was covered up or not. That would make a convenient backdrop to any sleaziness based response - although having said that the halal story looks like it might drown it so dunno.
The funny thing about the second is it might not have been asked by muslims but PC types getting offended on their behalf as a vehicle for a bit of moral bullying / superiority / one-up-man-ship which is the essence of PC - atheist puritanism.
The taste of blood is there, pushing against an open door has never being so easy.
Bercow commanded 57.4% of the vote (over 27,000 votes) in 2005. Given the poor showing elsewhere for the Tories that was no small achievement. He had an 18.000 majority. Whilst unpopular in Westminster in certain circles, I believe he was well regarded as a constituency MP. The Anti Tory vote (Lab & LD) amounted to around 19,000 votes. Most of that vote would never have voted for a Eurosceptic UKIP candidate and given that the pro-EU Tory was hiding behind the label "Buckinghamshire Campaign for Democracy" its not difficult to imagine a large proportion of the (less switched on) anti-tory vote plumping for a sound 'Pro-European' who opposed the supposed ' extreme right wing swivel-eyed nutter' when their normal choice was not available. The fact Stevens did not show his true colours was a cute piece of deception.
Bercow being the incumbent was always likely to keep a large portion of his vote. That said his vote fell by over 5,000 and arguably that and the residue of the non Tory vote was picked up by Farage who increased the UKIP vote by almost 7,000.
Now there was a 12% swing from Bercow to UKIP. I imagine most candidates would be greatly encouraged by such an improvement but Farage is different. How dare he not win a seat where all he had to do was topple an 18,000 majority and 57.4% vote share. After all such seats change hands all the time in general elections.
Given the publicity the fight was getting, he should have done much better. People were saying he would win. He came a very lowly third, despite not facing a campaign by the other main parties.
Face it: when it comes to GE's, Farage is a failure. That may change, but I doubt it.
What publicity? The whole election was dominated by the three debates and the Cleggasm and Cameron's failure to compensate for it. Farage's antics in Buckingham were less than a footnote. Now if you want to talk about failure's we can always go back to analysing how it was Cameron threw away a decisive lead in the last year of the election in the middle of the worst financial crisis in 80 years. Tories really shouldn't lecture anyone about campaigning and political strategy failures. They are the experts at such failures.
For me at least the very best situation would be with Miliband feeling the pressure before the next election and cracking by committing to a referendum.
You would need a heart of stone not to laugh. The press have lived off of fake outrage and 'moral panic' GTA stories for years, not least the Hootsman.
The way the Scotsman's going, it'll be 'restructured' into 2 blokes in a portakabin in West Lothian by the end of 2014.
Hmm - the article does say "the Sunday Herald understands" as nobody is admitting it. But to put it into context, those not familiar with the area need to know that
1. the building in question was specially built in 1999 to give the Scotsman (then owned by Messrs Barclay brothers) to give it a high profile home practically next door to the then new Scottish Parliament (as one might guess from the Holyrood Road address). Which says a lot about JP and the Scotsman's views on their relationships with Holyrood - or whether they can afford to maintain it. (It is the building notorious for the graffiti which appeared on the front, which is very deplorable of course, but it did not help that the unionists pretty much accused Mr Salmond of personally masterminding it ...)
2. Johnston Press own the Scotsman, AFAIK
3. Johnston Press shares are a small fraction of what they ysed to be
4. The Scotsman is rabidly unionist - to the degree that the Scotsman's Sunday paper went to the extent of digitally airbrushing a swastika over the St Andrew's Cross in the Saltire flag being held by some Scots chaps, in an article trying to claim that the indy folk are old fashioned Blood and Soil racist nationalists, like those chaps who used to go around in brown shirts and red, white and black armbands. (In fact, apart from the odd eccentric, the one who did get banged up come WW2 was a local Unionist MP ...). Trouble was they forgot that the original photo happens to be very well known, being used if I recall right as the cover image of one of the most widely published histories of modern Scotland. [I don't regard this as triggering Godwin's Law as it is germane and relevant]. I don't mind sendible unionist arguments in a balanced newspaper, but this ...
5. The Scotsman is pretty much at the red end of the spectrum for rate of newspaper circulation collapse in the UK, and is already circling the bath outlet, judging from the way it has cut down its content in recent months.
How far those facts are interconnected, I've often wondered. But upsetting at least 1/3 of your circulation right away, and insulting the intelligence of the rest, does not seem the way to become a successful press baron.
And it used to be one of the very best newspapers in the UK!
Ukip want to play the political class sleaziness angle not the outrage angle imo.
And bear in mind a Tory ex-minister might be up on child abuse charges within a few days with questions hanging over whether it was covered up or not. That would make a convenient backdrop to any sleaziness based response - although having said that the halal story looks like it might drown it so dunno.
The funny thing about the second is it might not have been asked by muslims but PC types getting offended on their behalf as a vehicle for a bit of moral bullying / superiority / one-up-man-ship which is the essence of PC - atheist puritanism.
I've referred to Mt Jones' second point down thread. While inspecting Care Home a number of years ago I was asked by a non Jewish staff member in a Jewish Home whether it was OK to give a Jew pork insulin. To be absolutely certain I consulted an acquaintance heavily involved in rabbinical matters. We looked into the question in some detail and came back with the answer that if it was a medical decision, no problem. We discussed it a bit further, and I took it further with other religions, and as a consequence of those discussions and information elsewhere, I really don't believe there is a problem.
If an individual makes a fuss, then I would expect management to move them to other duties where their sensitivities didn't cause problems.
Anyway, what's a devout and sensitive Moslem doing working for M&S?
Comments
Farage would have capitalised on this more if he had returned some witty response. It was to that extent a missed opportunity.
But I don't see how this kind of thing, however trivial, can be helping DC, and it certainly won't help Ms Soubry.
Italian army reservist to be prosecuted for saving cat's life in Kosovo
Barbara Balanzoni, who saved dying cat while serving as a medical officer at a Nato base, is charged with insubordination
It also gives a boost to those extremists who are trying to stop the selling of alcohol at Asian restaurants in the East End.
Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage 6h
@tnewtondunn perhaps @anna_soubrymp should spend less time investigating digital rectal insertion and more on her brief?
He made a joke of it.
Still, people will believe what they want to believe...
But are you calling James Chapman a liar?
Trying to think of bigger PR disaster @marksandspencer could manage than allowing staff to decide if they agree with serving each customer.
It's the later response that is po-faced.
e.g. Farage, meanwhile, replied: "Soubry has stooped to the levels of crudity that any politician would spend a life time apologising for. This is supposed to be a professional woman representing her political party on a national television programme on a Sunday morning."
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100251640/tory-ukip-hater-reveals-mind-like-a-sewer-but-the-media-round-on-farage/
Then repeated it without thinking on TV.
Have any customers been interviewed about this, or stuck their heads above the parapet. The timing is odd, at time when M and S food sales are fine, but clothes & other sales are being achieved only at lower than expected margins.
It looks like a planted piece to upset the current senior management. Why now, not last week, last month or last Christmas. It looks like and smells like bullshit.
As with this thread header, the facts are being made to fit the story...
I see Southampton beat Spurs 2-0 earlier, Sherwood must look at his defence
(I'm ignoring the 3 goals Spurs scored because Id have preferred the Saints to win)
What a suppository!
Funny that.
Seems a perfectly reasonable response
Criticism of Farage over this is more likely just proxy for not liking / being annoyed by the growth of UKIP
If it is true, then M&S better brace themselves, and look after any obviously Muslim employees, 'cos they'll get gangs of idiots targeting them, itching to get pork 'n' booze declined at the till.
Anyway... *eyes the pile of awkwardly-shaped presents that needs wrapping - and the weather forecast*. Seems I've picked a bad day to drive north tomorrow.
* the bit you bolded
It has a certain 'ring' about it!
Or should politicians only give one response, a soundbite repeated whenever asked ad nauseum?
Why should Farage laugh off such vulgarity and why should every political exchange be reduced to narrow tactics?
This won't register with most people who are not interested in politics, but for those for whom it does register, it can only harm my party. Mike has been spending too much time talking with those in the Westminster bubble methinks.
If it's not true, they should have killed it.
http://corporate.marksandspencer.com/media/press_releases?filter=latest&filterBy=Company
Can't see anything, but some poor bugger is going to have to devise ways of diffusing this. The story has a strong smell of taurean waste products, and I'm surprised that The Telegraph, Mirror and Mail thought that it is worth publicising.
It would have been funny if Cameron or Miliband was doing the shopping and the till operator said it them...
Cue for dropped bottles and outrage.
Its difficult to say who they were more annoyed with - M&S or the telegraph, for closing down comment on the thread beneath their story
;-)
His experience in 2010 does not bode well for him.
It was a bizarre comment.
Ding, Dong.
Here is the result of the Stewards Inquiry.
The Stewards held an inquiry following a report from a course official that the winner, Labour, untrained and ridden by Red Miliband, had taken the wrong course. Having heard evidence from the Clerk of the Course and the jockey and having viewed recordings of the race, the Stewards concluded the reported offence was self-evident and disqualified Labour, placing Conservative the winner and revising the placings of the following runners.
The Stewards also held an inquiry in an objection that Broxtowe Lass, who was unplaced, had interfered with UKIP at the Start of the race. Having reviewed video evidence of UKIP's reaction, the Stewards were satisfied that it did not involve a riding offence and dismissed the objection.
If he stands in South Thanet he'd likely be favourite to win it. Soubry on the other hand is toast once Mr Palmer sorts her out.
In 2010 in Buckingham - with no Conservative, Labour or Lib Dem candidates standing - Farage got just 17.4%, well behind the 'Buckinghamshire Campaign for Democracy'.
You may be right, but his record at GE's is not good.
UKIP would be wise to look elsewhere for their first MP.
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/dec/22/bbc-trust-lord-patten-accused-mps?CMP=twt_gu
"In response to the freedom of information request, the BBC released a 10-page executive briefing document wthat included biographies of the MPs and notes as to whether they have any ties to BBC employees.
The memo made reference to Margaret Hodge MP, the chair of the committee, noting that "Margaret's daughter works for the BBC as a producer" and that Richard Bacon MP was "married to Victoria, a BBC news producer". Of the Labour MP Austin Mitchell, the document said: "His second wife is the television director and journalist Linda McDougall and one of his daughters is a Radio 4 producer."
Oh dear, oh dear...POBBCWAS.
2010 was particularly terrible. What are UKIP supporter's reasoning for why he did not do better in Buckingham? And surely the plane crash had little to do with it?
But I don't bet, sorry. Someone else might take you up.
Tories can fantasise about how bad he is. They could even portray him with red eyes if they like. They are good at that sort of thing.
LOL
Hilarious isn't it?
Talk about damning with the faintest of praise.
It's also wrong because the people the tories really need to win back are the ones least likely to be laughing about this. The ones laughing at it anyway are those who would most respond to humour and who don't much care about Farage.
But I suppose Cleggites/Cameroons have to look for any kind of solace after incompetent stupidity like Soubry displayed. Regardless of the reaction it was just a massively dumb thing to say on a morning TV show. Not quite as dumb as calling kippers fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists of course, but still wonderfully dumb and alienating to those tory/UKIP waverers and activists who will be even more inclined to think Cammie's chumocracy is full of out of touch twits.
I wonder if people would be accommodating if an atheist who worked at Waterstones refused to sell bibles or korans?
I wonder if people would be accommodating if an atheist who worked at Waterstones refused to sell bibles or korans?
People are getting far too fussy and self centred in many areas of modern life.
Perhaps the answer is not to join a queue where a muslim is serving, assuming they can be identified.
The fact that his idea of what a canddate should be doing on polling day (flying above the constituency in a light plane) says all you need to know about his understanding of elections
Instead he came third behind an independent. His 17% was terrible given the massive amounts of publicity the contest was getting before the GE. He stood down as leader a year before in order to concentrate on winning the seat. He didn't just lose in Buckingham: he was slaughtered.
Every time he's stood, he's finished well behind. What's the biggest percentage he's had as a candidate? 17% over six elections. And he's an MEP as a result of the party list system.
What is more, ST also seems a strange choice. It's a two way, Labour-Conservative seat. He would need to attract a good percentage of voters from both those parties in order to win. As I say, his track record indicates that he won't do it.
But as ever, events may intervene.
Time to put him out to pasture.
James Worron @JamesWorron
M&S staff who do not believe in Father Christmas must now stand firm on selling Yuletide products. #seetheproblemyet
--------------------------
M&S @thedannycxp
.@sambakey Pleased to hear Sam
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Colin charlton @bombardier735
@JamesWorron @sarahandrews77 who comes up with those ideas? Soon all shops will be open on Christmas. .which will be banned soon
Why do they matter?
Martin Kettle lays it out nicely and this was way, way before the kipper surge this year.
1) the candidate has been in place for some time (and perhaps even stood in 2010),
2) there is only a Conservative opposition where (s)he can appeal to both Labour and Lib Dem tactical voters,
3) the candidate has been working really hard on groundwork for a few years,
4) there is a good ground campaign,
5) the candidate is a good political operator.
Basically, what the Lib Dems have been doing for some time, and the Greens did in Brighton Pavilion.
The exception to the above will be if there is a seismic shift. Sadly, that is just as likely to happen against UKIP than for them.
On Soubry, the finger gag was a highly specific and targeted bit of smut: it was the sort of thing Jeremy Hardy says on the News Quiz and unquestionably designed to get her that kind of gig post 2015, i would have thought.
Yep, absolutely. The chances are UKIP will lose the Conservatives the next election, gifting power to a pro-Europe Labour Party.
But we were discussing whether Farage would win a seat, which is a very different thing ...
- M&S facebook page deluged with angry messages.
- social media boycott campaign is under way.
Is anybody running this company???
It's also bound to work as we can plainly see here. *chortle*
If I were Cammie I wouldn't go too hard on that type of master strategy lest the laughter drown him out too much. Not that different since the fate of Farage isn't going to just be decided by which seat he chooses or indeed what he did five years ago but just how strongly the kipper vote and VI is around 2015. He may get get boosted by a strong kipper VI and an increased membership/activist base or try to play down the drop from the EU elections and concentrate everything on his chosen seats and a few others. More than likely both if truth be told.
There's knitting south of Bedford, but I don't think it's as prone to winds as those on the East Coast line near me.
The storms are due to hit here in Cambridge at about midday, and last about twelve hours. I'd keep an eye on the forecasts and on travel advisories.
But we were discussing whether Farage would win a seat, which is a very different thing ...
Rather than vote for a pro-Europe Tory party?
Still not sure that many of you really understand what is happening and even more relevant what will happen.
You mean we could end up swapping one pro-EU party for another pro-EU party. Gee what a dilemma.
He got 5% in ST in 2005. The UKIP candidate in 2010 got exactly 0.5% more.
In 2010 in Buckingham - with no Conservative, Labour or Lib Dem candidates standing - Farage got just 17.4%, well behind the 'Buckinghamshire Campaign for Democracy'.
You may be right, but his record at GE's is not good.
UKIP would be wise to look elsewhere for their first MP.
Farage got 17% in Buckingham when his party got 3% nationally in the election. He also got double the party's national figure in 2005. His party are currently polling 30% in South Thanet. Chances are he will increase the not inconsiderable UKIP vote in South Thanet if he stands there but you can believe what you want.
Tories can fantasise about how bad he is. They could even portray him with red eyes if they like. They are good at that sort of thing.
Don't give me that rubbish about Farage in Buckingham. He was facing no LAB, CON or LD candidates - just Bercow and a Pro-EU Tory who beat him to 2nd place by 6%.
The fact that his idea of what a canddate should be doing on polling day (flying above the constituency in a light plane) says all you need to know about his understanding of elections
Bercow commanded 57.4% of the vote (over 27,000 votes) in 2005. Given the poor showing elsewhere for the Tories that was no small achievement. He had an 18.000 majority. Whilst unpopular in Westminster in certain circles, I believe he was well regarded as a constituency MP. The Anti Tory vote (Lab & LD) amounted to around 19,000 votes. Most of that vote would never have voted for a Eurosceptic UKIP candidate and given that the pro-EU Tory was hiding behind the label "Buckinghamshire Campaign for Democracy" its not difficult to imagine a large proportion of the (less switched on) anti-tory vote plumping for a sound 'Pro-European' who opposed the supposed ' extreme right wing swivel-eyed nutter' when their normal choice was not available. The fact Stevens did not show his true colours was a cute piece of deception.
Bercow being the incumbent was always likely to keep a large portion of his vote. That said his vote fell by over 5,000 and arguably that and the residue of the non Tory vote was picked up by Farage who increased the UKIP vote by almost 7,000.
Now there was a 12% swing from Bercow to UKIP. I imagine most candidates would be greatly encouraged by such an improvement but Farage is different. How dare he not win a seat where all he had to do was topple an 18,000 majority and 57.4% vote share. After all such seats change hands all the time in general elections.
The way things stand, you have more chance of getting a referendum with the Conservatives than you do with Labour. It may be a small chance, but it's still bigger, and there are far more people within the party receptive to reining in Europe. And bar a seismic shift, UKIP aren't going to be anywhere near power in 2015.
IMO, a problem UKIP has is that the full BOO opinion is not shared by a vast proportion of the population. Many - like me - are concerned about Europe's powers, and would like to have some of them back. I'm not really keen on leaving everything to do with Europe or the EU altogether.
Saying that, I'd vote out of the EU if it came to a choice between that and joining the Euro.
This middle ground is shared by many. I get the impression that aside from a core vote, UKIP's vote at locals is largely a protest vote at the other parties - that is certainly what we have seen in the past, when gains in the Euros and locals have dissolved at GEs.
Their challenge will be in addressing that problem.
Face it: when it comes to GE's, Farage is a failure. That may change, but I doubt it.
I predict that Brodie will be dead by 10.30pm.
Any takers?
The funny thing about the second is it might not have been asked by muslims but PC types getting offended on their behalf as a vehicle for a bit of moral bullying / superiority / one-up-man-ship which is the essence of PC - atheist puritanism.
For me at least the very best situation would be with Miliband feeling the pressure before the next election and cracking by committing to a referendum.If he then won the election - as I believe he probably will anyway - he would then ideally be faced with a new truly Eurosceptic Tpry leader whilst at the same time having to meet the idiotic promises he had made before the election. Something I have no doubt he would fail to do.
The prospect of an unpopular Labour leader campaigning for continued membership of a deeply unpopular EU would be the perfect storm for Eurosceptics.
I am not saying this is going to happen of course. It is just a hell of a lot more likely a scenario for seeing us actually leave the EU than a Cameron backed referendum after he comes back with a pocket full of lies about non existent EU concessions.
Hmm - the article does say "the Sunday Herald understands" as nobody is admitting it. But to put it into context, those not familiar with the area need to know that
1. the building in question was specially built in 1999 to give the Scotsman (then owned by Messrs Barclay brothers) to give it a high profile home practically next door to the then new Scottish Parliament (as one might guess from the Holyrood Road address). Which says a lot about JP and the Scotsman's views on their relationships with Holyrood - or whether they can afford to maintain it. (It is the building notorious for the graffiti which appeared on the front, which is very deplorable of course, but it did not help that the unionists pretty much accused Mr Salmond of personally masterminding it ...)
2. Johnston Press own the Scotsman, AFAIK
3. Johnston Press shares are a small fraction of what they ysed to be
4. The Scotsman is rabidly unionist - to the degree that the Scotsman's Sunday paper went to the extent of digitally airbrushing a swastika over the St Andrew's Cross in the Saltire flag being held by some Scots chaps, in an article trying to claim that the indy folk are old fashioned Blood and Soil racist nationalists, like those chaps who used to go around in brown shirts and red, white and black armbands. (In fact, apart from the odd eccentric, the one who did get banged up come WW2 was a local Unionist MP ...). Trouble was they forgot that the original photo happens to be very well known, being used if I recall right as the cover image of one of the most widely published histories of modern Scotland. [I don't regard this as triggering Godwin's Law as it is germane and relevant]. I don't mind sendible unionist arguments in a balanced newspaper, but this ...
5. The Scotsman is pretty much at the red end of the spectrum for rate of newspaper circulation collapse in the UK, and is already circling the bath outlet, judging from the way it has cut down its content in recent months.
How far those facts are interconnected, I've often wondered. But upsetting at least 1/3 of your circulation right away, and insulting the intelligence of the rest, does not seem the way to become a successful press baron.
And it used to be one of the very best newspapers in the UK!
Best schadenfreude story in months. Thanks!
We looked into the question in some detail and came back with the answer that if it was a medical decision, no problem. We discussed it a bit further, and I took it further with other religions, and as a consequence of those discussions and information elsewhere, I really don't believe there is a problem.
If an individual makes a fuss, then I would expect management to move them to other duties where their sensitivities didn't cause problems.
Anyway, what's a devout and sensitive Moslem doing working for M&S?