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Now the Trump v Biden debate betting – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    DavidL said:

    Confused by Scottish COVID regs?

    A handy reminder:

    New Scottish Covid19 rules. Sing to the tune of ‘Ye canny shuv yer granny aff the bus’ 😁😆

    Oh ye canny hiv yer granny roon yer hoose,
    Naw ye canny hiv yer Granny roon yer hoose,
    Ye can tak her fur a swally,
    Even if yer peely-wally
    But ye canny hiv yer Granny roon yer hoose. 😂🤣

    Unless she's the one you have chosen to have as your extended family, of course.
    Ye can mebes hiv yer Granny roon yer hoose
    Ye can mebes hiv yer Granny roon yer hoose
    Only if she’s in yer bubble
    Or else ye’ll be in trouble
    Ye can mebes hiv yer Granny roon yer hoose....
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,313
    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    West End Business Anecdote

    Went for a very plez oyster lunch with a friend in Soho today.

    Oxford St, Regent St, and Soho now feel almost normal, with the added tedium of masks and queues, for sure - but normal. A lot of shoppers, plenty of traffic. Shops actually busy.

    It was an agreeably warm sunny Autumn day but certainly not high summer, and yet the crowds were out. Restaurants pretty full. Bars mildly buzzing.

    If we can avoid another calamitous national lockdown, we may also avoid economic Apocalypse. And the predictions of the End of London might prove premature.

    You mean your predictions of the End of London?
    Yes indeed. And God I hope I am about to be proved wrong.

    I love this city. The greatest city in the world. Today reminded me of its incredible potential: still. London has everything: history, modernity, scale, beauty, grandeur, squalor, poverty, wealth, skyscrapers, palaces, Roman walls, the Shard, the river Thames, superb oyster houses, 25 universities, 5 royal parks, the best sport in the world, and amazing amazing people. Talent by the ton.

    If it can survive Covid and power through, then I will happily eat a whole plate of humble pie (from my own recipe, and from the Groucho Club) and onwards we GO.
    For your next PB username can I suggest @BlowsHotandCold or maybe @TotalDramaQueen?
    I've never exactly denied my bipolarity.

    This week an architect/designer friend of mine was employed (at HUGE expense) to completely gut and redesign the Belgravia mansion of a famous Indian billionaire, a project expected to take 3-4 years, and cost squillions.

    It may seem trivial, it is not. The ultra-rich are not deserting London. They expect to stay here, despite Covid, despite Brexit. They are voting with their non moving feet.

    The rich stay in safe, successful, exciting cities. If London can remain that global attraction, then the UK economy will benefit, as a whole, and this is a serous positive for us all.
    Being serious for a moment, the real issue for London will surely be changing working practices now everyone realises WFH works pretty well for many white collar jobs.
    But, i think this is temporary. In the end WFH is actually quite dull. Certainly for anyone under 40, or even 50 (maybe more so if you have kids)

    The commute is a pain, sure, but it thrusts you away from humdrum domesticity into THE CITY, an exciting world of social, romantic, conversational, sexual, culinary, professional, emotional opportunity. People do it because they like it, in the end, even if they whine about it.

    Sitting in a house outside Reading in your pyjamas doing your job on a laptop has an appeal for a while, but long term? No. People will always want to congregate, to go where the action is, to see and be seen. To have that random chat in a pub that leads to a brilliant job, to meet someone at random in the company lobby and have a coffee and have a great idea.
    Much truth here. Many people have a different identity at work to at home and for some it's empowering. At work they are Superman when at home they are Clark Kent. The commute is when they metaphorically don their cape. Take that away and you're left with something that can be quite banal. The work gets done but there's no magic.
  • Options

    It is curious that so many Bush Republicans only seem to bring a couple of % of the vote with them.
    We saw something similar in the UK when the WA rebels got kicked out, there's basically no market for free-market conservatism.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,313

    kinabalu said:

    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    Was this the purpose of the Bill all along?

    https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1311027739911229440

    Lol...
    I'm not really sure why "seamless trade within the UK" is so important, if it is so unimportant with the rest of the World...
    We are the UK not the whole world.
    There was a time when the main argument of the Brexit supporters was that being in the EU restricted our ability to trade freely and seamlessly with the wider World.
    Which is still true. Brexit deals with that issue.

    We won't have seamless trade with the whole world though, that was never pledged.
    You were the one who used the phrase “the whole world”, not me. I’d just settle for a few reasonably important trading partners.

    Or when you say “Brexit dealt with that”, are you arguing like John Cleese about Loretta? We won’t actually generate any new beneficial trading partnerships, but the main thing is that we have the right to have them.

    Not sure why the Internal Market bill is so important to you though? Given that you are in favour of both a United ireland (border in the Irish Sea), and for good measure an Independent Scotland (border on the Tweed).
    I would be happy to see NI and Scotland go (because I think its the right thing for them more than I think England would benefit).

    But for as long as NI and Scotland choose to remain a part of the UK I respect that choice and the UK should be whole and sovereign.

    There is no hypocrisy there. If NI votes to leave the UK it will ipso facto leave the UK's internal market but until then it is and should be a part of it.
    A referendum on ENGLISH independence tomorrow. How are you voting?
    In that hypothetical scenario? Yes.
    And how would that leave Scotland, Wales and NI?
  • Options
    LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    kinabalu said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    West End Business Anecdote

    Went for a very plez oyster lunch with a friend in Soho today.

    Oxford St, Regent St, and Soho now feel almost normal, with the added tedium of masks and queues, for sure - but normal. A lot of shoppers, plenty of traffic. Shops actually busy.

    It was an agreeably warm sunny Autumn day but certainly not high summer, and yet the crowds were out. Restaurants pretty full. Bars mildly buzzing.

    If we can avoid another calamitous national lockdown, we may also avoid economic Apocalypse. And the predictions of the End of London might prove premature.

    You mean your predictions of the End of London?
    Yes indeed. And God I hope I am about to be proved wrong.

    I love this city. The greatest city in the world. Today reminded me of its incredible potential: still. London has everything: history, modernity, scale, beauty, grandeur, squalor, poverty, wealth, skyscrapers, palaces, Roman walls, the Shard, the river Thames, superb oyster houses, 25 universities, 5 royal parks, the best sport in the world, and amazing amazing people. Talent by the ton.

    If it can survive Covid and power through, then I will happily eat a whole plate of humble pie (from my own recipe, and from the Groucho Club) and onwards we GO.
    For your next PB username can I suggest @BlowsHotandCold or maybe @TotalDramaQueen?
    I've never exactly denied my bipolarity.

    This week an architect/designer friend of mine was employed (at HUGE expense) to completely gut and redesign the Belgravia mansion of a famous Indian billionaire, a project expected to take 3-4 years, and cost squillions.

    It may seem trivial, it is not. The ultra-rich are not deserting London. They expect to stay here, despite Covid, despite Brexit. They are voting with their non moving feet.

    The rich stay in safe, successful, exciting cities. If London can remain that global attraction, then the UK economy will benefit, as a whole, and this is a serous positive for us all.
    Being serious for a moment, the real issue for London will surely be changing working practices now everyone realises WFH works pretty well for many white collar jobs.
    But, i think this is temporary. In the end WFH is actually quite dull. Certainly for anyone under 40, or even 50 (maybe more so if you have kids)

    The commute is a pain, sure, but it thrusts you away from humdrum domesticity into THE CITY, an exciting world of social, romantic, conversational, sexual, culinary, professional, emotional opportunity. People do it because they like it, in the end, even if they whine about it.

    Sitting in a house outside Reading in your pyjamas doing your job on a laptop has an appeal for a while, but long term? No. People will always want to congregate, to go where the action is, to see and be seen. To have that random chat in a pub that leads to a brilliant job, to meet someone at random in the company lobby and have a coffee and have a great idea.
    Much truth here. Many people have a different identity at work to at home and for some it's empowering. At work they are Superman when at home they are Clark Kent. The commute is when they metaphorically don their cape. Take that away and you're left with something that can be quite banal. The work gets done but there's no magic.
    Exactly!

    I think just putting on a suit changes a person (like Superman, as you rightly say). You take off the pyjamas, and you put on a crisp white shirt and tie, and dark jacket, and you march off to work, empowered and keen and ready. And you work better as a result, rather than slobbing around at home in your dressing gown doing Zoom. Eating chocolate hobnobs.

    This is one reason armies have uniforms, the mere fact of putting on your uniform stiffens the spine (and broadens the shoulders aesthetically) and creates an esprit de corps. Men look good in cavalry gear or dark suits, less so in boxer shorts and a stained hoodie.

    Also see parties: men look good in full dinner jacket ensemble, women look great in sexy and expensive dresses, as against a onesie?

    Cities that demand expensive dress codes will always appeal. They provide status, and mark your rise through society. For that reason, they are not going away, indeed, I think they are soon returning.
  • Options
    For anyone who still subscribes to the 'shy Trump voter' theory, take a good read of this

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/29/tensions-and-insults-in-the-battle-for-florida-lay-bare-americas-divisions

    The part where the mob of MAGA's tell the group of Hispanics in the car that they should "get out our country" really captures their shy introspective nature...
  • Options
    ChameleonChameleon Posts: 3,888
    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    West End Business Anecdote

    Went for a very plez oyster lunch with a friend in Soho today.

    Oxford St, Regent St, and Soho now feel almost normal, with the added tedium of masks and queues, for sure - but normal. A lot of shoppers, plenty of traffic. Shops actually busy.

    It was an agreeably warm sunny Autumn day but certainly not high summer, and yet the crowds were out. Restaurants pretty full. Bars mildly buzzing.

    If we can avoid another calamitous national lockdown, we may also avoid economic Apocalypse. And the predictions of the End of London might prove premature.

    You mean your predictions of the End of London?
    Yes indeed. And God I hope I am about to be proved wrong.

    I love this city. The greatest city in the world. Today reminded me of its incredible potential: still. London has everything: history, modernity, scale, beauty, grandeur, squalor, poverty, wealth, skyscrapers, palaces, Roman walls, the Shard, the river Thames, superb oyster houses, 25 universities, 5 royal parks, the best sport in the world, and amazing amazing people. Talent by the ton.

    If it can survive Covid and power through, then I will happily eat a whole plate of humble pie (from my own recipe, and from the Groucho Club) and onwards we GO.
    For your next PB username can I suggest @BlowsHotandCold or maybe @TotalDramaQueen?
    I've never exactly denied my bipolarity.

    This week an architect/designer friend of mine was employed (at HUGE expense) to completely gut and redesign the Belgravia mansion of a famous Indian billionaire, a project expected to take 3-4 years, and cost squillions.

    It may seem trivial, it is not. The ultra-rich are not deserting London. They expect to stay here, despite Covid, despite Brexit. They are voting with their non moving feet.

    The rich stay in safe, successful, exciting cities. If London can remain that global attraction, then the UK economy will benefit, as a whole, and this is a serous positive for us all.
    Being serious for a moment, the real issue for London will surely be changing working practices now everyone realises WFH works pretty well for many white collar jobs.
    But, i think this is temporary. In the end WFH is actually quite dull. Certainly for anyone under 40, or even 50 (maybe more so if you have kids)

    The commute is a pain, sure, but it thrusts you away from humdrum domesticity into THE CITY, an exciting world of social, romantic, conversational, sexual, culinary, professional, emotional opportunity. People do it because they like it, in the end, even if they whine about it.

    Sitting in a house outside Reading in your pyjamas doing your job on a laptop has an appeal for a while, but long term? No. People will always want to congregate, to go where the action is, to see and be seen. To have that random chat in a pub that leads to a brilliant job, to meet someone at random in the company lobby and have a coffee and have a great idea. To get laid.

    Cities are unbeatable. In the end London (and other cities) will defeat Covid. Fuck Covid. London beat the Luftwaffe, we can beat this stupid Chinese virus.

    As someone who is a (very) recent graduate I'd agree that broadly we want some form of hybrid working. I'm quite fortunate in that my graduate job salary is enough to live comfortably in a house share very near the city, so it's less important for me (although new job was already moving to hybrid working before all this). However I have a lot of less fortunate acquaintances whose first three years will be ridiculously tight if they had to live in London, whereas living in Essex or with parents while having a longer commute, but only for 2 days a week is now a viable option.

    One thing that I'd note is that the *massive* disparity in London (+Reading) salaries and opportunities has only grown over the past year
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,059
    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    West End Business Anecdote

    Went for a very plez oyster lunch with a friend in Soho today.

    Oxford St, Regent St, and Soho now feel almost normal, with the added tedium of masks and queues, for sure - but normal. A lot of shoppers, plenty of traffic. Shops actually busy.

    It was an agreeably warm sunny Autumn day but certainly not high summer, and yet the crowds were out. Restaurants pretty full. Bars mildly buzzing.

    If we can avoid another calamitous national lockdown, we may also avoid economic Apocalypse. And the predictions of the End of London might prove premature.

    You mean your predictions of the End of London?
    Yes indeed. And God I hope I am about to be proved wrong.

    I love this city. The greatest city in the world. Today reminded me of its incredible potential: still. London has everything: history, modernity, scale, beauty, grandeur, squalor, poverty, wealth, skyscrapers, palaces, Roman walls, the Shard, the river Thames, superb oyster houses, 25 universities, 5 royal parks, the best sport in the world, and amazing amazing people. Talent by the ton.

    If it can survive Covid and power through, then I will happily eat a whole plate of humble pie (from my own recipe, and from the Groucho Club) and onwards we GO.
    The Shard is shit. Our very own piece of Abu Dhabi bespoiling central London. Totally inappropriate.

    Some tourists who don't know any better seem to love it though in the same way kids like Paw Patrol.

    What do they know?
    The Shard is the greatest skyscraper of the 21st century. The way it soars above 11th century Borough Market has no equal, anywhere. Tsk.
    I see you've been on the wine this evening, the shard is awful and on the wrong side of the river.
    It is in the perfect place. It stands alone and proud and silvery, like a mystical totem of broken crystal. It is genius.

    If you walk up Primrose Hill, of an evening (this is entirely true) parties and picknickers and partygoers align themselves unconsciously in rows that point to the glittering Shard. It's an amazing sight. Ley lines of heathen worship.

    The Shard feels like an obelisk that was put in London in 15,000BC and the rest of the City grew around it. It is possibly the greatest building of this century, so far.

    I know you won't be persuaded by me. But go to Borough Market and watch how people walk out of the Market and then say OMG and they emotionally genuflect and go Wow. Despite themselves. The Shard has the impact of a building twice its height. The nearest comparison is not a modern skyscraper, but the Eiffel Tower, in the late 19th century.



    https://www.robertharding.com/preview/1225-1051/shard-sunset-top-primrose-hill-london-england-united/



    Isn't that because the hill naturally points towards Borough?
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,221
    algarkirk said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Lawyers in the UK Government surely must be removed from the bar

    Yes - by voting against the Labour amendment which “requires ministers to respect the rule of law and uphold the independence of the courts”, both the Lord Chancellor, Robert Buckland, and the A-G, Suella Braverman, are in breach of their oaths of office. They should be disciplined by the Bar Council frankly.

    Wasn't @Cyclefree making a similar suggestion using the Falklands a week or two back?
    A few weeks back and not seriously. Is Priti reading PB? If she is, can she and her stupid colleagues just bog off and stop dragging Britain’s name through the mud.

    On disbarring etc, it's all very well to say they should or surely must etc, but disbarring and discipline generally in the legal profession is a complex process of evidence, charge, hearing, proof, decision and an appeal process which goes through the High Court and could go the Court of Appeal - sometimes does - and in a case like this even to the Supreme Court, with the matter being perfectly arguable on both sides as to whether or not they have behaved improperly. You would find (for example) Lord Pannick eloquent, fabulously well informed and profoundly persuasive for whichever side managed to brief him first. One line comments don't quite make the grade here.

    Oh I know all that. But they are both a disgrace to their professions and roles. I despair that we have such second - no - third-raters in office with such flexible professional standards.
  • Options
    ChameleonChameleon Posts: 3,888

    For anyone who still subscribes to the 'shy Trump voter' theory, take a good read of this

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/29/tensions-and-insults-in-the-battle-for-florida-lay-bare-americas-divisions

    The part where the mob of MAGA's tell the group of Hispanics in the car that they should "get out our country" really captures their shy introspective nature...

    Just because there are some loud and proud Trumpers, it does not mean that you can rule out silent but deadly Trumpers that could swing the election. I wouldn't rule out the polls whiffing it again.

    Early voting seems to be getting done at unprecedented levels so far, do we have information on how/when they'll be counted? Trump on the night, but very heavily Biden in postals could lead to some wonderful bet in play action.
  • Options
    LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    rcs1000 said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    West End Business Anecdote

    Went for a very plez oyster lunch with a friend in Soho today.

    Oxford St, Regent St, and Soho now feel almost normal, with the added tedium of masks and queues, for sure - but normal. A lot of shoppers, plenty of traffic. Shops actually busy.

    It was an agreeably warm sunny Autumn day but certainly not high summer, and yet the crowds were out. Restaurants pretty full. Bars mildly buzzing.

    If we can avoid another calamitous national lockdown, we may also avoid economic Apocalypse. And the predictions of the End of London might prove premature.

    You mean your predictions of the End of London?
    Yes indeed. And God I hope I am about to be proved wrong.

    I love this city. The greatest city in the world. Today reminded me of its incredible potential: still. London has everything: history, modernity, scale, beauty, grandeur, squalor, poverty, wealth, skyscrapers, palaces, Roman walls, the Shard, the river Thames, superb oyster houses, 25 universities, 5 royal parks, the best sport in the world, and amazing amazing people. Talent by the ton.

    If it can survive Covid and power through, then I will happily eat a whole plate of humble pie (from my own recipe, and from the Groucho Club) and onwards we GO.
    The Shard is shit. Our very own piece of Abu Dhabi bespoiling central London. Totally inappropriate.

    Some tourists who don't know any better seem to love it though in the same way kids like Paw Patrol.

    What do they know?
    The Shard is the greatest skyscraper of the 21st century. The way it soars above 11th century Borough Market has no equal, anywhere. Tsk.
    I see you've been on the wine this evening, the shard is awful and on the wrong side of the river.
    It is in the perfect place. It stands alone and proud and silvery, like a mystical totem of broken crystal. It is genius.

    If you walk up Primrose Hill, of an evening (this is entirely true) parties and picknickers and partygoers align themselves unconsciously in rows that point to the glittering Shard. It's an amazing sight. Ley lines of heathen worship.

    The Shard feels like an obelisk that was put in London in 15,000BC and the rest of the City grew around it. It is possibly the greatest building of this century, so far.

    I know you won't be persuaded by me. But go to Borough Market and watch how people walk out of the Market and then say OMG and they emotionally genuflect and go Wow. Despite themselves. The Shard has the impact of a building twice its height. The nearest comparison is not a modern skyscraper, but the Eiffel Tower, in the late 19th century.



    https://www.robertharding.com/preview/1225-1051/shard-sunset-top-primrose-hill-london-england-united/



    Isn't that because the hill naturally points towards Borough?
    I've been living here long enough to see the difference. The lines of people (perfectly aligned in the direction of the Shard) are striking, and entirely new.

    People always sat down in the hill and generally in the direction of the City and West End, yes-but now they are like iron filings affected by an invisible magnet in one of those early school physics experiments.
  • Options
    LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    And with that, night night, PB. At least until the Debate, mabes
  • Options
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    Was this the purpose of the Bill all along?

    https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1311027739911229440

    Lol...
    I'm not really sure why "seamless trade within the UK" is so important, if it is so unimportant with the rest of the World...
    We are the UK not the whole world.
    There was a time when the main argument of the Brexit supporters was that being in the EU restricted our ability to trade freely and seamlessly with the wider World.
    Which is still true. Brexit deals with that issue.

    We won't have seamless trade with the whole world though, that was never pledged.
    You were the one who used the phrase “the whole world”, not me. I’d just settle for a few reasonably important trading partners.

    Or when you say “Brexit dealt with that”, are you arguing like John Cleese about Loretta? We won’t actually generate any new beneficial trading partnerships, but the main thing is that we have the right to have them.

    Not sure why the Internal Market bill is so important to you though? Given that you are in favour of both a United ireland (border in the Irish Sea), and for good measure an Independent Scotland (border on the Tweed).
    I would be happy to see NI and Scotland go (because I think its the right thing for them more than I think England would benefit).

    But for as long as NI and Scotland choose to remain a part of the UK I respect that choice and the UK should be whole and sovereign.

    There is no hypocrisy there. If NI votes to leave the UK it will ipso facto leave the UK's internal market but until then it is and should be a part of it.
    A referendum on ENGLISH independence tomorrow. How are you voting?
    In that hypothetical scenario? Yes.
    And how would that leave Scotland, Wales and NI?
    They would be free to choose whether to continue as a united kingdom without England, or to go their own separate ways. That would be their choice.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,851
    LadyG said:

    kle4 said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    West End Business Anecdote

    Went for a very plez oyster lunch with a friend in Soho today.

    Oxford St, Regent St, and Soho now feel almost normal, with the added tedium of masks and queues, for sure - but normal. A lot of shoppers, plenty of traffic. Shops actually busy.

    It was an agreeably warm sunny Autumn day but certainly not high summer, and yet the crowds were out. Restaurants pretty full. Bars mildly buzzing.

    If we can avoid another calamitous national lockdown, we may also avoid economic Apocalypse. And the predictions of the End of London might prove premature.

    You mean your predictions of the End of London?
    Yes indeed. And God I hope I am about to be proved wrong.

    I love this city. The greatest city in the world. Today reminded me of its incredible potential: still. London has everything: history, modernity, scale, beauty, grandeur, squalor, poverty, wealth, skyscrapers, palaces, Roman walls, the Shard, the river Thames, superb oyster houses, 25 universities, 5 royal parks, the best sport in the world, and amazing amazing people. Talent by the ton.

    If it can survive Covid and power through, then I will happily eat a whole plate of humble pie (from my own recipe, and from the Groucho Club) and onwards we GO.
    For your next PB username can I suggest @BlowsHotandCold or maybe @TotalDramaQueen?
    I've never exactly denied my bipolarity.

    This week an architect/designer friend of mine was employed (at HUGE expense) to completely gut and redesign the Belgravia mansion of a famous Indian billionaire, a project expected to take 3-4 years, and cost squillions.

    It may seem trivial, it is not. The ultra-rich are not deserting London. They expect to stay here, despite Covid, despite Brexit. They are voting with their non moving feet.

    The rich stay in safe, successful, exciting cities. If London can remain that global attraction, then the UK economy will benefit, as a whole, and this is a serous positive for us all.
    Being serious for a moment, the real issue for London will surely be changing working practices now everyone realises WFH works pretty well for many white collar jobs.
    But, i think this is temporary. In the end WFH is actually quite dull. Certainly for anyone under 40, or even 50 (maybe more so if you have kids)

    The commute is a pain, sure, but it thrusts you away from humdrum domesticity into THE CITY, an exciting world of social, romantic, conversational, sexual, culinary, professional, emotional opportunity. People do it because they like it, in the end, even if they whine about it.

    Sitting in a house outside Reading in your pyjamas doing your job on a laptop has an appeal for a while, but long term? No. People will always want to congregate, to go where the action is, to see and be seen. To have that random chat in a pub that leads to a brilliant job, to meet someone at random in the company lobby and have a coffee and have a great idea. To get laid.

    Cities are unbeatable. In the end London (and other cities) will defeat Covid. Fuck Covid. London beat the Luftwaffe, we can beat this stupid Chinese virus.

    I neither live in nor like London or cities, but you definitely sell it well.

    It helps that I am skeptical about the WFH revolution - not that there will not be one, but that it will be quite as all encompassing as people are acting like.
    I've already got friends who were big fans from WFH who are now complaining loudly about it. They are bored witless. They want to go back to the busy streets.
    We were saying that on here a few months ago, that people would get tired of it.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,313
    LadyG said:

    kinabalu said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    West End Business Anecdote

    Went for a very plez oyster lunch with a friend in Soho today.

    Oxford St, Regent St, and Soho now feel almost normal, with the added tedium of masks and queues, for sure - but normal. A lot of shoppers, plenty of traffic. Shops actually busy.

    It was an agreeably warm sunny Autumn day but certainly not high summer, and yet the crowds were out. Restaurants pretty full. Bars mildly buzzing.

    If we can avoid another calamitous national lockdown, we may also avoid economic Apocalypse. And the predictions of the End of London might prove premature.

    You mean your predictions of the End of London?
    Yes indeed. And God I hope I am about to be proved wrong.

    I love this city. The greatest city in the world. Today reminded me of its incredible potential: still. London has everything: history, modernity, scale, beauty, grandeur, squalor, poverty, wealth, skyscrapers, palaces, Roman walls, the Shard, the river Thames, superb oyster houses, 25 universities, 5 royal parks, the best sport in the world, and amazing amazing people. Talent by the ton.

    If it can survive Covid and power through, then I will happily eat a whole plate of humble pie (from my own recipe, and from the Groucho Club) and onwards we GO.
    For your next PB username can I suggest @BlowsHotandCold or maybe @TotalDramaQueen?
    I've never exactly denied my bipolarity.

    This week an architect/designer friend of mine was employed (at HUGE expense) to completely gut and redesign the Belgravia mansion of a famous Indian billionaire, a project expected to take 3-4 years, and cost squillions.

    It may seem trivial, it is not. The ultra-rich are not deserting London. They expect to stay here, despite Covid, despite Brexit. They are voting with their non moving feet.

    The rich stay in safe, successful, exciting cities. If London can remain that global attraction, then the UK economy will benefit, as a whole, and this is a serous positive for us all.
    Being serious for a moment, the real issue for London will surely be changing working practices now everyone realises WFH works pretty well for many white collar jobs.
    But, i think this is temporary. In the end WFH is actually quite dull. Certainly for anyone under 40, or even 50 (maybe more so if you have kids)

    The commute is a pain, sure, but it thrusts you away from humdrum domesticity into THE CITY, an exciting world of social, romantic, conversational, sexual, culinary, professional, emotional opportunity. People do it because they like it, in the end, even if they whine about it.

    Sitting in a house outside Reading in your pyjamas doing your job on a laptop has an appeal for a while, but long term? No. People will always want to congregate, to go where the action is, to see and be seen. To have that random chat in a pub that leads to a brilliant job, to meet someone at random in the company lobby and have a coffee and have a great idea.
    Much truth here. Many people have a different identity at work to at home and for some it's empowering. At work they are Superman when at home they are Clark Kent. The commute is when they metaphorically don their cape. Take that away and you're left with something that can be quite banal. The work gets done but there's no magic.
    Exactly!

    I think just putting on a suit changes a person (like Superman, as you rightly say). You take off the pyjamas, and you put on a crisp white shirt and tie, and dark jacket, and you march off to work, empowered and keen and ready. And you work better as a result, rather than slobbing around at home in your dressing gown doing Zoom. Eating chocolate hobnobs.

    This is one reason armies have uniforms, the mere fact of putting on your uniform stiffens the spine (and broadens the shoulders aesthetically) and creates an esprit de corps. Men look good in cavalry gear or dark suits, less so in boxer shorts and a stained hoodie.

    Also see parties: men look good in full dinner jacket ensemble, women look great in sexy and expensive dresses, as against a onesie?

    Cities that demand expensive dress codes will always appeal. They provide status, and mark your rise through society. For that reason, they are not going away, indeed, I think they are soon returning.
    Sounding a bit like my favourite ever literary character -

    “All it comes down to is this: I feel like shit but look great.”
  • Options
    Trump needs a knockout blow tonight if he is to have any chance of getting back into the race. A draw or even a small Trump win is good enough for Biden.
  • Options
    DeClareDeClare Posts: 483

    For anyone who still subscribes to the 'shy Trump voter' theory, take a good read of this

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/29/tensions-and-insults-in-the-battle-for-florida-lay-bare-americas-divisions

    The part where the mob of MAGA's tell the group of Hispanics in the car that they should "get out our country" really captures their shy introspective nature...

    Florida along with Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California was Spanish long before they became part of the mainstream US.

    Don't Americans learn their own history? Imagine people in Cardiff who want to speak Welsh being told to get out!
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,313

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    Was this the purpose of the Bill all along?

    https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1311027739911229440

    Lol...
    I'm not really sure why "seamless trade within the UK" is so important, if it is so unimportant with the rest of the World...
    We are the UK not the whole world.
    There was a time when the main argument of the Brexit supporters was that being in the EU restricted our ability to trade freely and seamlessly with the wider World.
    Which is still true. Brexit deals with that issue.

    We won't have seamless trade with the whole world though, that was never pledged.
    You were the one who used the phrase “the whole world”, not me. I’d just settle for a few reasonably important trading partners.

    Or when you say “Brexit dealt with that”, are you arguing like John Cleese about Loretta? We won’t actually generate any new beneficial trading partnerships, but the main thing is that we have the right to have them.

    Not sure why the Internal Market bill is so important to you though? Given that you are in favour of both a United ireland (border in the Irish Sea), and for good measure an Independent Scotland (border on the Tweed).
    I would be happy to see NI and Scotland go (because I think its the right thing for them more than I think England would benefit).

    But for as long as NI and Scotland choose to remain a part of the UK I respect that choice and the UK should be whole and sovereign.

    There is no hypocrisy there. If NI votes to leave the UK it will ipso facto leave the UK's internal market but until then it is and should be a part of it.
    A referendum on ENGLISH independence tomorrow. How are you voting?
    In that hypothetical scenario? Yes.
    And how would that leave Scotland, Wales and NI?
    They would be free to choose whether to continue as a united kingdom without England, or to go their own separate ways. That would be their choice.
    That's not a viable "K" though. So in fact it forces independence upon them. Not saying this is necessarily unacceptable but it is a point I find interesting and under discussed. Still, not to worry, since it won't be happening like that.
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 4,960
    There’s a misconception that mail in ballots are always last to be counted. This varies by state , some count these ballots first , some states also allow mail in ballots to be opened and tabulated ready to be processed before Election Day .
  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,997
    Money pouring inrto Betfair on the presidential election.
    Just topped £99 million. Will top £100m before the debate I think. If not, certainly during it.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,851
    nico679 said:

    There’s a misconception that mail in ballots are always last to be counted. This varies by state , some count these ballots first , some states also allow mail in ballots to be opened and tabulated ready to be processed before Election Day .

    Practically every state has its own way of doing things.
  • Options
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    Was this the purpose of the Bill all along?

    https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1311027739911229440

    Lol...
    I'm not really sure why "seamless trade within the UK" is so important, if it is so unimportant with the rest of the World...
    We are the UK not the whole world.
    There was a time when the main argument of the Brexit supporters was that being in the EU restricted our ability to trade freely and seamlessly with the wider World.
    Which is still true. Brexit deals with that issue.

    We won't have seamless trade with the whole world though, that was never pledged.
    You were the one who used the phrase “the whole world”, not me. I’d just settle for a few reasonably important trading partners.

    Or when you say “Brexit dealt with that”, are you arguing like John Cleese about Loretta? We won’t actually generate any new beneficial trading partnerships, but the main thing is that we have the right to have them.

    Not sure why the Internal Market bill is so important to you though? Given that you are in favour of both a United ireland (border in the Irish Sea), and for good measure an Independent Scotland (border on the Tweed).
    I would be happy to see NI and Scotland go (because I think its the right thing for them more than I think England would benefit).

    But for as long as NI and Scotland choose to remain a part of the UK I respect that choice and the UK should be whole and sovereign.

    There is no hypocrisy there. If NI votes to leave the UK it will ipso facto leave the UK's internal market but until then it is and should be a part of it.
    A referendum on ENGLISH independence tomorrow. How are you voting?
    In that hypothetical scenario? Yes.
    And how would that leave Scotland, Wales and NI?
    They would be free to choose whether to continue as a united kingdom without England, or to go their own separate ways. That would be their choice.
    That's not a viable "K" though. So in fact it forces independence upon them. Not saying this is necessarily unacceptable but it is a point I find interesting and under discussed. Still, not to worry, since it won't be happening like that.
    Why isn't it viable?

    Scotland is viable, if that is what the Scots want.
    Scotland+Wales+NI is viable if that is what they want.

    Of course in a Scotland+Wales+NI union Scotland would be by far the larger nation in that union rather than a junior one, but the imbalance would be much less than it currently is in the UK.
  • Options
    nico679 said:

    There’s a misconception that mail in ballots are always last to be counted. This varies by state , some count these ballots first , some states also allow mail in ballots to be opened and tabulated ready to be processed before Election Day .

    Yes, also not clear how the results will be released; People responsible for counting ballots won't want to encourage the narrative that one side woz robbed, so even in places where they end up counting the in-person ballots first they may decide not to release the numbers until they've also counted the mail-in ones.
  • Options

    nico679 said:

    There’s a misconception that mail in ballots are always last to be counted. This varies by state , some count these ballots first , some states also allow mail in ballots to be opened and tabulated ready to be processed before Election Day .

    Yes, also not clear how the results will be released; People responsible for counting ballots won't want to encourage the narrative that one side woz robbed, so even in places where they end up counting the in-person ballots first they may decide not to release the numbers until they've also counted the mail-in ones.
    I doubt it. America always release their numbers as they go along, unlike in the UK. If they were to change that, it'd likely do more to build a narrative not put it off.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,359
    edited September 2020
    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    kle4 said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    West End Business Anecdote

    Went for a very plez oyster lunch with a friend in Soho today.

    Oxford St, Regent St, and Soho now feel almost normal, with the added tedium of masks and queues, for sure - but normal. A lot of shoppers, plenty of traffic. Shops actually busy.

    It was an agreeably warm sunny Autumn day but certainly not high summer, and yet the crowds were out. Restaurants pretty full. Bars mildly buzzing.

    If we can avoid another calamitous national lockdown, we may also avoid economic Apocalypse. And the predictions of the End of London might prove premature.

    You mean your predictions of the End of London?
    Yes indeed. And God I hope I am about to be proved wrong.

    I love this city. The greatest city in the world. Today reminded me of its incredible potential: still. London has everything: history, modernity, scale, beauty, grandeur, squalor, poverty, wealth, skyscrapers, palaces, Roman walls, the Shard, the river Thames, superb oyster houses, 25 universities, 5 royal parks, the best sport in the world, and amazing amazing people. Talent by the ton.

    If it can survive Covid and power through, then I will happily eat a whole plate of humble pie (from my own recipe, and from the Groucho Club) and onwards we GO.
    For your next PB username can I suggest @BlowsHotandCold or maybe @TotalDramaQueen?
    I've never exactly denied my bipolarity.

    This week an architect/designer friend of mine was employed (at HUGE expense) to completely gut and redesign the Belgravia mansion of a famous Indian billionaire, a project expected to take 3-4 years, and cost squillions.

    It may seem trivial, it is not. The ultra-rich are not deserting London. They expect to stay here, despite Covid, despite Brexit. They are voting with their non moving feet.

    The rich stay in safe, successful, exciting cities. If London can remain that global attraction, then the UK economy will benefit, as a whole, and this is a serous positive for us all.
    Being serious for a moment, the real issue for London will surely be changing working practices now everyone realises WFH works pretty well for many white collar jobs.
    But, i think this is temporary. In the end WFH is actually quite dull. Certainly for anyone under 40, or even 50 (maybe more so if you have kids)

    The commute is a pain, sure, but it thrusts you away from humdrum domesticity into THE CITY, an exciting world of social, romantic, conversational, sexual, culinary, professional, emotional opportunity. People do it because they like it, in the end, even if they whine about it.

    Sitting in a house outside Reading in your pyjamas doing your job on a laptop has an appeal for a while, but long term? No. People will always want to congregate, to go where the action is, to see and be seen. To have that random chat in a pub that leads to a brilliant job, to meet someone at random in the company lobby and have a coffee and have a great idea. To get laid.

    Cities are unbeatable. In the end London (and other cities) will defeat Covid. Fuck Covid. London beat the Luftwaffe, we can beat this stupid Chinese virus.

    I neither live in nor like London or cities, but you definitely sell it well.

    It helps that I am skeptical about the WFH revolution - not that there will not be one, but that it will be quite as all encompassing as people are acting like.
    I've already got friends who were big fans from WFH who are now complaining loudly about it. They are bored witless. They want to go back to the busy streets.
    We were saying that on here a few months ago, that people would get tired of it.
    Still about 4:1 in favour of wfh in my organisation (sample 100). The big pluses that people cite are the lack of commute and seeing lots more of the family - contrary to what many think, loads of people like seeing their partners, kids, pets etc. more than they like seeing colleagues in the flesh - for colleagues, the screen contact is fine. Add an element of risk to going in to work and most people I know think it's a no-brainer to avoid it if possible. And the organisation is generally young - I'm an exception at 70, but the average is low 30s.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,059
    Chameleon said:

    For anyone who still subscribes to the 'shy Trump voter' theory, take a good read of this

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/29/tensions-and-insults-in-the-battle-for-florida-lay-bare-americas-divisions

    The part where the mob of MAGA's tell the group of Hispanics in the car that they should "get out our country" really captures their shy introspective nature...

    Just because there are some loud and proud Trumpers, it does not mean that you can rule out silent but deadly Trumpers that could swing the election. I wouldn't rule out the polls whiffing it again.

    Early voting seems to be getting done at unprecedented levels so far, do we have information on how/when they'll be counted? Trump on the night, but very heavily Biden in postals could lead to some wonderful bet in play action.
    Late counting will mostly be of postal votes that arrive later. So long as people get their ballots in early then, outside California, they will be counted relatively quickly.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,059
    kinabalu said:

    LadyG said:

    kinabalu said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    West End Business Anecdote

    Went for a very plez oyster lunch with a friend in Soho today.

    Oxford St, Regent St, and Soho now feel almost normal, with the added tedium of masks and queues, for sure - but normal. A lot of shoppers, plenty of traffic. Shops actually busy.

    It was an agreeably warm sunny Autumn day but certainly not high summer, and yet the crowds were out. Restaurants pretty full. Bars mildly buzzing.

    If we can avoid another calamitous national lockdown, we may also avoid economic Apocalypse. And the predictions of the End of London might prove premature.

    You mean your predictions of the End of London?
    Yes indeed. And God I hope I am about to be proved wrong.

    I love this city. The greatest city in the world. Today reminded me of its incredible potential: still. London has everything: history, modernity, scale, beauty, grandeur, squalor, poverty, wealth, skyscrapers, palaces, Roman walls, the Shard, the river Thames, superb oyster houses, 25 universities, 5 royal parks, the best sport in the world, and amazing amazing people. Talent by the ton.

    If it can survive Covid and power through, then I will happily eat a whole plate of humble pie (from my own recipe, and from the Groucho Club) and onwards we GO.
    For your next PB username can I suggest @BlowsHotandCold or maybe @TotalDramaQueen?
    I've never exactly denied my bipolarity.

    This week an architect/designer friend of mine was employed (at HUGE expense) to completely gut and redesign the Belgravia mansion of a famous Indian billionaire, a project expected to take 3-4 years, and cost squillions.

    It may seem trivial, it is not. The ultra-rich are not deserting London. They expect to stay here, despite Covid, despite Brexit. They are voting with their non moving feet.

    The rich stay in safe, successful, exciting cities. If London can remain that global attraction, then the UK economy will benefit, as a whole, and this is a serous positive for us all.
    Being serious for a moment, the real issue for London will surely be changing working practices now everyone realises WFH works pretty well for many white collar jobs.
    But, i think this is temporary. In the end WFH is actually quite dull. Certainly for anyone under 40, or even 50 (maybe more so if you have kids)

    The commute is a pain, sure, but it thrusts you away from humdrum domesticity into THE CITY, an exciting world of social, romantic, conversational, sexual, culinary, professional, emotional opportunity. People do it because they like it, in the end, even if they whine about it.

    Sitting in a house outside Reading in your pyjamas doing your job on a laptop has an appeal for a while, but long term? No. People will always want to congregate, to go where the action is, to see and be seen. To have that random chat in a pub that leads to a brilliant job, to meet someone at random in the company lobby and have a coffee and have a great idea.
    Much truth here. Many people have a different identity at work to at home and for some it's empowering. At work they are Superman when at home they are Clark Kent. The commute is when they metaphorically don their cape. Take that away and you're left with something that can be quite banal. The work gets done but there's no magic.
    Exactly!

    I think just putting on a suit changes a person (like Superman, as you rightly say). You take off the pyjamas, and you put on a crisp white shirt and tie, and dark jacket, and you march off to work, empowered and keen and ready. And you work better as a result, rather than slobbing around at home in your dressing gown doing Zoom. Eating chocolate hobnobs.

    This is one reason armies have uniforms, the mere fact of putting on your uniform stiffens the spine (and broadens the shoulders aesthetically) and creates an esprit de corps. Men look good in cavalry gear or dark suits, less so in boxer shorts and a stained hoodie.

    Also see parties: men look good in full dinner jacket ensemble, women look great in sexy and expensive dresses, as against a onesie?

    Cities that demand expensive dress codes will always appeal. They provide status, and mark your rise through society. For that reason, they are not going away, indeed, I think they are soon returning.
    Sounding a bit like my favourite ever literary character -

    “All it comes down to is this: I feel like shit but look great.”
    Possibly the most overrated book ever.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    Chameleon said:

    For anyone who still subscribes to the 'shy Trump voter' theory, take a good read of this

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/29/tensions-and-insults-in-the-battle-for-florida-lay-bare-americas-divisions

    The part where the mob of MAGA's tell the group of Hispanics in the car that they should "get out our country" really captures their shy introspective nature...

    Just because there are some loud and proud Trumpers, it does not mean that you can rule out silent but deadly Trumpers that could swing the election. I wouldn't rule out the polls whiffing it again.

    Early voting seems to be getting done at unprecedented levels so far, do we have information on how/when they'll be counted? Trump on the night, but very heavily Biden in postals could lead to some wonderful bet in play action.
    Late counting will mostly be of postal votes that arrive later. So long as people get their ballots in early then, outside California, they will be counted relatively quickly.
    Why do California take so long to count their ballots?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,059

    rcs1000 said:

    Chameleon said:

    For anyone who still subscribes to the 'shy Trump voter' theory, take a good read of this

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/29/tensions-and-insults-in-the-battle-for-florida-lay-bare-americas-divisions

    The part where the mob of MAGA's tell the group of Hispanics in the car that they should "get out our country" really captures their shy introspective nature...

    Just because there are some loud and proud Trumpers, it does not mean that you can rule out silent but deadly Trumpers that could swing the election. I wouldn't rule out the polls whiffing it again.

    Early voting seems to be getting done at unprecedented levels so far, do we have information on how/when they'll be counted? Trump on the night, but very heavily Biden in postals could lead to some wonderful bet in play action.
    Late counting will mostly be of postal votes that arrive later. So long as people get their ballots in early then, outside California, they will be counted relatively quickly.
    Why do California take so long to count their ballots?
    Because there are usually about a dozen things to vote on:

    - city councilmen
    - Senators (state and national)
    - Representatives (ditto)
    - Judges
    - Ballot propositions (nine this year)
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    Chameleon said:

    For anyone who still subscribes to the 'shy Trump voter' theory, take a good read of this

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/29/tensions-and-insults-in-the-battle-for-florida-lay-bare-americas-divisions

    The part where the mob of MAGA's tell the group of Hispanics in the car that they should "get out our country" really captures their shy introspective nature...

    Just because there are some loud and proud Trumpers, it does not mean that you can rule out silent but deadly Trumpers that could swing the election. I wouldn't rule out the polls whiffing it again.

    Early voting seems to be getting done at unprecedented levels so far, do we have information on how/when they'll be counted? Trump on the night, but very heavily Biden in postals could lead to some wonderful bet in play action.
    Late counting will mostly be of postal votes that arrive later. So long as people get their ballots in early then, outside California, they will be counted relatively quickly.
    IIUC the issue is that verifying postal votes is much more laborious - they have extra steps like opening envelopes and checking signatures - so in states where they're not allowed to get started on that stuff until polling day - which seems to be true of the key swing states in the mid-west - the postal votes will probably take quite a bit longer than the in-person votes.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,059

    rcs1000 said:

    Chameleon said:

    For anyone who still subscribes to the 'shy Trump voter' theory, take a good read of this

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/29/tensions-and-insults-in-the-battle-for-florida-lay-bare-americas-divisions

    The part where the mob of MAGA's tell the group of Hispanics in the car that they should "get out our country" really captures their shy introspective nature...

    Just because there are some loud and proud Trumpers, it does not mean that you can rule out silent but deadly Trumpers that could swing the election. I wouldn't rule out the polls whiffing it again.

    Early voting seems to be getting done at unprecedented levels so far, do we have information on how/when they'll be counted? Trump on the night, but very heavily Biden in postals could lead to some wonderful bet in play action.
    Late counting will mostly be of postal votes that arrive later. So long as people get their ballots in early then, outside California, they will be counted relatively quickly.
    IIUC the issue is that verifying postal votes is much more laborious - they have extra steps like opening envelopes and checking signatures - so in states where they're not allowed to get started on that stuff until polling day - which seems to be true of the key swing states in the mid-west - the postal votes will probably take quite a bit longer than the in-person votes.
    Ah, that makes sense.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited September 2020
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Chameleon said:

    For anyone who still subscribes to the 'shy Trump voter' theory, take a good read of this

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/29/tensions-and-insults-in-the-battle-for-florida-lay-bare-americas-divisions

    The part where the mob of MAGA's tell the group of Hispanics in the car that they should "get out our country" really captures their shy introspective nature...

    Just because there are some loud and proud Trumpers, it does not mean that you can rule out silent but deadly Trumpers that could swing the election. I wouldn't rule out the polls whiffing it again.

    Early voting seems to be getting done at unprecedented levels so far, do we have information on how/when they'll be counted? Trump on the night, but very heavily Biden in postals could lead to some wonderful bet in play action.
    Late counting will mostly be of postal votes that arrive later. So long as people get their ballots in early then, outside California, they will be counted relatively quickly.
    Why do California take so long to count their ballots?
    Because there are usually about a dozen things to vote on:

    - city councilmen
    - Senators (state and national)
    - Representatives (ditto)
    - Judges
    - Ballot propositions (nine this year)
    This may sound like a silly question but why not just have a dozen times the people counting the ballots then to speed up the process?

    Also besides the ballot propositions don't all States have amounts of things to vote on too?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,059

    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    kle4 said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    West End Business Anecdote

    Went for a very plez oyster lunch with a friend in Soho today.

    Oxford St, Regent St, and Soho now feel almost normal, with the added tedium of masks and queues, for sure - but normal. A lot of shoppers, plenty of traffic. Shops actually busy.

    It was an agreeably warm sunny Autumn day but certainly not high summer, and yet the crowds were out. Restaurants pretty full. Bars mildly buzzing.

    If we can avoid another calamitous national lockdown, we may also avoid economic Apocalypse. And the predictions of the End of London might prove premature.

    You mean your predictions of the End of London?
    Yes indeed. And God I hope I am about to be proved wrong.

    I love this city. The greatest city in the world. Today reminded me of its incredible potential: still. London has everything: history, modernity, scale, beauty, grandeur, squalor, poverty, wealth, skyscrapers, palaces, Roman walls, the Shard, the river Thames, superb oyster houses, 25 universities, 5 royal parks, the best sport in the world, and amazing amazing people. Talent by the ton.

    If it can survive Covid and power through, then I will happily eat a whole plate of humble pie (from my own recipe, and from the Groucho Club) and onwards we GO.
    For your next PB username can I suggest @BlowsHotandCold or maybe @TotalDramaQueen?
    I've never exactly denied my bipolarity.

    This week an architect/designer friend of mine was employed (at HUGE expense) to completely gut and redesign the Belgravia mansion of a famous Indian billionaire, a project expected to take 3-4 years, and cost squillions.

    It may seem trivial, it is not. The ultra-rich are not deserting London. They expect to stay here, despite Covid, despite Brexit. They are voting with their non moving feet.

    The rich stay in safe, successful, exciting cities. If London can remain that global attraction, then the UK economy will benefit, as a whole, and this is a serous positive for us all.
    Being serious for a moment, the real issue for London will surely be changing working practices now everyone realises WFH works pretty well for many white collar jobs.
    But, i think this is temporary. In the end WFH is actually quite dull. Certainly for anyone under 40, or even 50 (maybe more so if you have kids)

    The commute is a pain, sure, but it thrusts you away from humdrum domesticity into THE CITY, an exciting world of social, romantic, conversational, sexual, culinary, professional, emotional opportunity. People do it because they like it, in the end, even if they whine about it.

    Sitting in a house outside Reading in your pyjamas doing your job on a laptop has an appeal for a while, but long term? No. People will always want to congregate, to go where the action is, to see and be seen. To have that random chat in a pub that leads to a brilliant job, to meet someone at random in the company lobby and have a coffee and have a great idea. To get laid.

    Cities are unbeatable. In the end London (and other cities) will defeat Covid. Fuck Covid. London beat the Luftwaffe, we can beat this stupid Chinese virus.

    I neither live in nor like London or cities, but you definitely sell it well.

    It helps that I am skeptical about the WFH revolution - not that there will not be one, but that it will be quite as all encompassing as people are acting like.
    I've already got friends who were big fans from WFH who are now complaining loudly about it. They are bored witless. They want to go back to the busy streets.
    We were saying that on here a few months ago, that people would get tired of it.
    Still about 4:1 in favour of wfh in my organisation (sample 100). The big pluses that people cite are the lack of commute and seeing lots more of the family - contrary to what many think, loads of people like seeing their partners, kids, pets etc. more than they like seeing colleagues in the flesh - for colleagues, the screen contact is fine. Add an element of risk to going in to work and most people I know think it's a no-brainer to avoid it if possible. And the organisation is generally young - I'm an exception at 70, but the average is low 30s.
    "loads of people like seeing their partners, kids, pets etc."

    Really? That doesn't seem very likely to me.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,059

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Chameleon said:

    For anyone who still subscribes to the 'shy Trump voter' theory, take a good read of this

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/29/tensions-and-insults-in-the-battle-for-florida-lay-bare-americas-divisions

    The part where the mob of MAGA's tell the group of Hispanics in the car that they should "get out our country" really captures their shy introspective nature...

    Just because there are some loud and proud Trumpers, it does not mean that you can rule out silent but deadly Trumpers that could swing the election. I wouldn't rule out the polls whiffing it again.

    Early voting seems to be getting done at unprecedented levels so far, do we have information on how/when they'll be counted? Trump on the night, but very heavily Biden in postals could lead to some wonderful bet in play action.
    Late counting will mostly be of postal votes that arrive later. So long as people get their ballots in early then, outside California, they will be counted relatively quickly.
    Why do California take so long to count their ballots?
    Because there are usually about a dozen things to vote on:

    - city councilmen
    - Senators (state and national)
    - Representatives (ditto)
    - Judges
    - Ballot propositions (nine this year)
    This may sound like a silly question but why not just have a dozen times the people counting the ballots then to speed up the process?
    Demarcation.
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    BBC News - Coronavirus: NHS well stocked for ventilators this winter
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54323566
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Here's something (possibly) interesting....if you watch the debate on www.foxnews.com/2020live as well as the debate they have commentary also. What it is I don't know but they've been advertising it for days. With the threadbare coverage of CNN and MsNBC given their ratings, plus Fox's overwhelming presence in Cleveland it might be worth a look. It might be a disaster, but either way don't blame me! It starts at 9pm EDT, or 2am BST.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,122
    As we wait for the first debate only 6% of viewers are still deciding who to vote for, 74% are voting to see how their candidate does by contrast and 41% just for entertainment

    https://twitter.com/CBSNewsPoll/status/1311061358989934593?s=20
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    Tim_B said:

    Here's something (possibly) interesting....if you watch the debate on www.foxnews.com/2020live as well as the debate they have commentary also. What it is I don't know but they've been advertising it for days. With the threadbare coverage of CNN and MsNBC given their ratings, plus Fox's overwhelming presence in Cleveland it might be worth a look. It might be a disaster, but either way don't blame me! It starts at 9pm EDT, or 2am BST.

    Yup, Fox News is an odious propaganda pusher whose constant diet of lies is responsible for many of the problems in the world today, but they do an excellent livestream.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,122
    President Trump and Vice President Biden now just arrived on stage and acknowledged each other as the first presidential debate for the general election of 2020 gets under way
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    Going to be yuuuuuuge....
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,196
    Will this cure my insomnia?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,122
    First remarks from both on SC nominee
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,302
    Biden's voice a bit croaky?
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    Trump rambling away without saying much....Biden straight away crowbarring in Obamacare.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,122
    MikeL said:

    Biden's voice a bit croaky?

    First impressions on TV are Trump looks a bit more telegenic if orange as usual and Biden a bit hesitant and grey but very early days
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    Not true...your a socialist...not true...this is going to be a long 90 mins.
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,302
    Trump interrupting several times already.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,122
    Trump says Biden's party will force him to socialist healthcare, Biden says it is his party.
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    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Chameleon said:

    For anyone who still subscribes to the 'shy Trump voter' theory, take a good read of this

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/29/tensions-and-insults-in-the-battle-for-florida-lay-bare-americas-divisions

    The part where the mob of MAGA's tell the group of Hispanics in the car that they should "get out our country" really captures their shy introspective nature...

    Just because there are some loud and proud Trumpers, it does not mean that you can rule out silent but deadly Trumpers that could swing the election. I wouldn't rule out the polls whiffing it again.

    Early voting seems to be getting done at unprecedented levels so far, do we have information on how/when they'll be counted? Trump on the night, but very heavily Biden in postals could lead to some wonderful bet in play action.
    Late counting will mostly be of postal votes that arrive later. So long as people get their ballots in early then, outside California, they will be counted relatively quickly.
    Why do California take so long to count their ballots?
    Because there are usually about a dozen things to vote on:

    - city councilmen
    - Senators (state and national)
    - Representatives (ditto)
    - Judges
    - Ballot propositions (nine this year)
    This may sound like a silly question but why not just have a dozen times the people counting the ballots then to speed up the process?

    Also besides the ballot propositions don't all States have amounts of things to vote on too?
    No. Most states have all or part of their legislature up this year, and eleven have gubernatorial elections. Six states have no legislative or gubernatorial elections this year. All of the House of Representatives are up, 34 stated have senatorial elections.

    It looks like Maryland has the fewest: just Prez and House, but Baltimore has a mayoral election, do possibly other cities there do too.

    Here in New York we’ll be voting for

    Federal:
    President,
    House representative
    Neither of our US Senators are up this year

    State:
    Senator
    House rep

    Local:
    Varies, I think only local judges for us, our county elections are in odd-numbered years. Some villages are electing trustees (councillors) in November but ours were a couple of weeks back, postponed from May.

    New York State does not have ballot initiatives, but local jurisdictions like NYC may. We do vote to ratify amendments to the state constitution but I don’t think we have any up this year.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,196
    HYUFD said:

    MikeL said:

    Biden's voice a bit croaky?

    First impressions on TV are Trump looks a bit more telegenic if orange as usual and Biden a bit hesitant and grey but very early days
    I have to say, Trump is sharper than I was expecting. I don't think this debate will matter, though.
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    Trump very aggressive here.
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    Trump's strategy seems to be to drive Biden nuts and hope he has a blow up.
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,302
    Wallace insists on asking Q despite Trump trying very hard to stop him.
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    Trump is now arguing with the moderator. Its quite funny if it wasn't so important.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,059
    Trump spends his life trying to talk over people, and looks very unhappy.

    Biden stumbling over numbers, as always. But otherwise quite articulate.
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    Biden should keep schtum as much as possible. Let Trump ramble.
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    This debate is a study in incoherence.
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,302
    My initial assessment is 50:50.

    Unlikely to change any minds.

    Trump not helping himself by interrupting Wallace so much.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,196
    Has there ever been an election between an incumbent President and previous Vice-President?
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,059
    I can't watch this.

    Trump basically just makes shit up.
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    Trump is like a hecker at a comedy show.
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,302
    tlg86 said:

    Has there ever been an election between an incumbent President and previous Vice-President?

    Reagan v Mondale is one.
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    The moderator is awful.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,122
    Onto Covid 19 now
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    The moderator is awful.

    Unless the moderator has control of the microphones, it is hard to see what he can do better.
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    Joe Biden losing it now.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,196
    "Will you shut up, man."
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,302
    Wallace needs to be much, much firmer.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,851
    edited September 2020
    Have either of them gaffed so far?
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    ChameleonChameleon Posts: 3,888
    Biden doing far, far better at getting semi-coherant snippets out.
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,302
    Not sure I agree with Goodall and Dale.

    Trump's interruptions may well put floaters off.
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    We are getting the greatest hits
    now...Wroooooonngggg
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    Joe Biden just totally garbled his preconceived joke about getting out of bunkers.
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    Guardian video just went private -- have switched to Telegraph stream.
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,302
    edited September 2020
    Betfair has ticked towards Biden!

    Start 1.78
    Now 1.75
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,122
    Trump said he closed the US early to travellers which Biden opposed and a vaccine is weeks away and Biden could not have done the job
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,851
    MikeL said:

    Not sure I agree with Goodall and Dale.

    Trump's interruptions may well put floaters off.

    I was thinking the same.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,196
    I have to say, I'm not sure COVID-19 would have been any different in the US with anyone else as president (whereas things could have been different here, for sure).
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    It is like a parallel universe....both versions are just detached from reality.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,122
    Biden going on the number of deaths on Trump's watch and trust in scientists
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,122
    6% of viewers are undecided
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    Trump is wearing an American tie. He normally favours British stripes.
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    Biden delivery of his rehearsed emotional passages is poor. But Trump is just spouting his usual nonsense, everybody else is wrong or lying.
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    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,997
    The money is going on Biden. Down to 1.75
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,302
    Injecting bleach!
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,196
    MikeL said:

    Betfair has ticked towards Biden!

    Start 1.78
    Now 1.75

    Four years ago I watched the first debate without looking at the comments on here. I thought it was a convincing win for Trump, but the view on here was the opposite.

    I think Biden is going to win irrespective of these debates, but I think there is a danger that the punters see what they want to see.
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    LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    Comically bad, on both sides. Trump worse
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    HYUFD said:
    That is setting the bar incredibly low.
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    LadyG said:

    Comically bad, on both sides. Trump worse

    This is a Saturday Night Live sketch right, not the actual thing?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,122
    Trump attacks Biden on his academic record
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    LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    Biden is utterly feeble. Trump manages to be flailingly worse
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,302
    Trump certainly isn't attracting undecideds. Biden not much either.
This discussion has been closed.