When I was chairman of Warwick University Tories we had Lord Hurd to speak and he was excellent, would have been a great PM had he won the Tory leadership in 1990, he was a heavyweight Foreign Secretary and not as flashy as Heseltine and brighter than Major but with similar policies
His behaviour over the civil war in Bosnia was an utter disgrace and a stain on his record.
Engaging British troops in a civil war would not really have achieved much other than mass British casualties and he had an excellent Gulf War
Why do you think that was the choice? Allowing the Bosnians to defend themselves was the right moral choice, one which Hurd - disgracefully IMO - set his face against, for no good reason. I mean, it’s not as if Britain has ever had qualms about selling arms to all sorts of disgusting despotic regimes. But apparently selling arms to poor Muslims being slaughtered by a genocidal fascist regime was a step too far.
There was no real national interest in selling British arms to Bosnian rebels in a civil war they were fighting against the Serbs to break up Yugoslavia.
Britain does sell arms abroad but not regularly to one side only in the middle of a civil war to prolong the conflict
Yes there was. One result of Britain’s failure (though not just hers) was the worst war crime in Europe since WW2 - Srebenica - and countless other smaller war crimes.
The Bosnian civil war radicalised a number of young Muslims. See the histories of some of those who later got involved in Al Qaeda and IS and similar groups.
We had every interest in stopping a breeding ground for terrorism.
We had every interest in showing that Muslims who had lived in Europe for centuries would be protected - not slaughtered by a fascist regime, by their ostensibly Christian neighbours.
We had every interest in stopping genocide and war crimes in Europe.
If you do not understand why it was in Britain’s interest to stop these things .... well, I give up.
I've seen that said before - is it a PB saying, or is there some special issue involved, please?
The old tales tell of someone, upsetting the Gods Of PB by posting Scottish subsamples.
The damnatio memoriae implemented against that person was so extreme that most deny it ever happened. Some say the timeline was altered so that he never existed.
When I was chairman of Warwick University Tories we had Lord Hurd to speak and he was excellent, would have been a great PM had he won the Tory leadership in 1990, he was a heavyweight Foreign Secretary and not as flashy as Heseltine and brighter than Major but with similar policies
His behaviour over the civil war in Bosnia was an utter disgrace and a stain on his record.
Engaging British troops in a civil war would not really have achieved much other than mass British casualties and he had an excellent Gulf War
Why do you think that was the choice? Allowing the Bosnians to defend themselves was the right moral choice, one which Hurd - disgracefully IMO - set his face against, for no good reason. I mean, it’s not as if Britain has ever had qualms about selling arms to all sorts of disgusting despotic regimes. But apparently selling arms to poor Muslims being slaughtered by a genocidal fascist regime was a step too far.
There was no real national interest in selling British arms to Bosnian rebels in a civil war they were fighting against the Serbs to break up Yugoslavia.
Britain does sell arms abroad but not regularly to one side only in the middle of a civil war to prolong the conflict
Yes there was. One result of Britain’s failure (though not just hers) was the worst war crime in Europe since WW2 - Srebenica - and countless other smaller war crimes.
The Bosnian civil war radicalised a number of young Muslims. See the histories of some of those who later got involved in Al Qaeda and IS and similar groups.
We had every interest in stopping a breeding ground for terrorism.
We had every interest in showing that Muslims who had lived in Europe for centuries would be protected - not slaughtered by a fascist regime, by their ostensibly Christian neighbours.
We had every interest in stopping genocide and war crimes in Europe.
If you do not understand why it was in Britain’s interest to stop these things .... well, I give up.
9/11 still occurred despite US and UK interventions in Bosnia and Kosovo against the Serbs
The tories do not really fear Starmer. What they fear is a concerted, well organised and well funded attack from the right.
And here it comes courtesy of Laurence "Lozza" Fox.
A brand new political party called RECLAIM. So called because it's mission is "to reclaim British values" from the "cesspit of wokeness into which we are falling" - this last bit in quotes but is in fact my own work.
I think there's plenty of people to challenge excessive wokeness without needing a party to do it. Pretty sure Obama has criticised it for one (albeit not in the same way as Fox presumably does)
My first take is vanity and monetization project from Lozza. We will see. It looks to be in the Farage space but with lots of misty eyed "This Island Nation" lyricism in the style of Eadric. Not to be complacent but I don't see it taking off. If it does we have a bigger problem than the pandemic.
The tories do not really fear Starmer. What they fear is a concerted, well organised and well funded attack from the right.
And here it comes courtesy of Laurence "Lozza" Fox.
A brand new political party called RECLAIM. So called because it's mission is "to reclaim British values" from the "cesspit of wokeness into which we are falling" - this last bit in quotes but is in fact my own work.
I was a bit surprised to find Richard Ayoade is Lozzas brother in Law. Not impressed by his QToutburst apparently. Oh how the establishment inter twine.
Yes, the upper classes do like to "express themselves" and even though one might be hard left and another hard right they have more in common than anything which divides them.
When I was chairman of Warwick University Tories we had Lord Hurd to speak and he was excellent, would have been a great PM had he won the Tory leadership in 1990, he was a heavyweight Foreign Secretary and not as flashy as Heseltine and brighter than Major but with similar policies
His behaviour over the civil war in Bosnia was an utter disgrace and a stain on his record.
Engaging British troops in a civil war would not really have achieved much other than mass British casualties and he had an excellent Gulf War
Why do you think that was the choice? Allowing the Bosnians to defend themselves was the right moral choice, one which Hurd - disgracefully IMO - set his face against, for no good reason. I mean, it’s not as if Britain has ever had qualms about selling arms to all sorts of disgusting despotic regimes. But apparently selling arms to poor Muslims being slaughtered by a genocidal fascist regime was a step too far.
There was no real national interest in selling British arms to Bosnian rebels in a civil war they were fighting against the Serbs to break up Yugoslavia.
Britain does sell arms abroad but not regularly to one side only in the middle of a civil war to prolong the conflict
Yes there was. One result of Britain’s failure (though not just hers) was the worst war crime in Europe since WW2 - Srebenica - and countless other smaller war crimes.
The Bosnian civil war radicalised a number of young Muslims. See the histories of some of those who later got involved in Al Qaeda and IS and similar groups.
We had every interest in stopping a breeding ground for terrorism.
We had every interest in showing that Muslims who had lived in Europe for centuries would be protected - not slaughtered by a fascist regime, by their ostensibly Christian neighbours.
We had every interest in stopping genocide and war crimes in Europe.
If you do not understand why it was in Britain’s interest to stop these things .... well, I give up.
9/11 still occurred despite US and UK interventions in Bosnia and Kosovo against the Serbs
Interventions which occurred far too late. The damage had been done. The Tory government at the time behaved utterly disgracefully over Bosnia. Even Mrs Thatcher said so at the time.
The tories do not really fear Starmer. What they fear is a concerted, well organised and well funded attack from the right.
And here it comes courtesy of Laurence "Lozza" Fox.
A brand new political party called RECLAIM. So called because it's mission is "to reclaim British values" from the "cesspit of wokeness into which we are falling" - this last bit in quotes but is in fact my own work.
I was a bit surprised to find Richard Ayoade is Lozzas brother in Law. Not impressed by his QToutburst apparently. Oh how the establishment inter twine.
Only the BP has the professionalism, the reach, the name and the organisation to effectively challenge the tories on the right at the moment
James Forsyth has written that Farage's former acolytes are trying to get him to decide if he wants to lead. I guess he is waiting to see how brexit gets decided.
The opening for Farage is ongoing heavy migration, not Brexit.
The tories do not really fear Starmer. What they fear is a concerted, well organised and well funded attack from the right.
And here it comes courtesy of Laurence "Lozza" Fox.
A brand new political party called RECLAIM. So called because it's mission is "to reclaim British values" from the "cesspit of wokeness into which we are falling" - this last bit in quotes but is in fact my own work.
I was a bit surprised to find Richard Ayoade is Lozzas brother in Law. Not impressed by his QToutburst apparently. Oh how the establishment inter twine.
Only the BP has the professionalism, the reach, the name and the organisation to effectively challenge the tories on the right at the moment
James Forsyth has written that Farage's former acolytes are trying to get him to decide if he wants to lead. I guess he is waiting to see how brexit gets decided.
I do hope you get what you wish for. Nothing would please me more than a divided right; I don't even care whether Fox or Farage leads the anti-woke, secretly not very keen on foreigners gang.
I think he's very confident there'll be a vaccine soon. He keeps talking up vaccines as the solution.
Your faith in these people relinquishing the political smack of unscrutinised rule by diktat 'cos vaccine' is going to prove to be very wrong.
We are already being told a vaccine will not be a silver bullet by the medical establishment. We are going to need Johnson out and Cummings with him to break free of this authoritarianism. Johnson stinks of Cummings's arrogance.
Imagine if Boris said well it is going to be like this for next 2 years with a long winter ahead.
It was hard enough for people to stick to things for 3 months. I am sure this carrot just out of reach is an approach being offered by the behavioural insight people as a way to keep people thinking I will just do this for another few weeks. Hence why the talk of back to normal for Christmas, to give people some hope.
Two years? that's the truth? That's what central office really thinks? FFS.
I have no idea how long those in the know really think it will be, but the Swedish approach has been based on that timeframe. I am just saying for the British public I don't think if Boris had come out and said that in March the lockdown would have stuck. Instead, it seems like the message is being managed, first it was perhaps September, then perhaps just after Christmas.
Hang on - a good vaccine by next Summer surely? June to be precise. That's my expectation and it is why I remain quite chipper and support the suppression strategy. If a vaccine is not coming for the general population until 2022 or later - or is only a long shot for working at all - I would start to feel rather bleak. It would mean that herd immunity by infection becomes the best of the bad choices - and the price tag on this is 250k deaths, 1m hospitalizations, large numbers of people left with long term health problems.
I think I prefer Johnson's implausible optimism to your bleak forecast.
Well my forecast is still June 2021 for a good working vaccine. But if that is pie in the sky I'd rather know now so I can mentally prepare for what would likely be a horrible few years.
The tories do not really fear Starmer. What they fear is a concerted, well organised and well funded attack from the right.
And here it comes courtesy of Laurence "Lozza" Fox.
A brand new political party called RECLAIM. So called because it's mission is "to reclaim British values" from the "cesspit of wokeness into which we are falling" - this last bit in quotes but is in fact my own work.
I was a bit surprised to find Richard Ayoade is Lozzas brother in Law. Not impressed by his QToutburst apparently. Oh how the establishment inter twine.
Only the BP has the professionalism, the reach, the name and the organisation to effectively challenge the tories on the right at the moment
James Forsyth has written that Farage's former acolytes are trying to get him to decide if he wants to lead. I guess he is waiting to see how brexit gets decided.
The opening for Farage is ongoing heavy migration, not Brexit.
I think he's very confident there'll be a vaccine soon. He keeps talking up vaccines as the solution.
Your faith in these people relinquishing the political smack of unscrutinised rule by diktat 'cos vaccine' is going to prove to be very wrong.
We are already being told a vaccine will not be a silver bullet by the medical establishment. We are going to need Johnson out and Cummings with him to break free of this authoritarianism. Johnson stinks of Cummings's arrogance.
Imagine if Boris said well it is going to be like this for next 2 years with a long winter ahead.
It was hard enough for people to stick to things for 3 months. I am sure this carrot just out of reach is an approach being offered by the behavioural insight people as a way to keep people thinking I will just do this for another few weeks. Hence why the talk of back to normal for Christmas, to give people some hope.
Two years? that's the truth? That's what central office really thinks? FFS.
I have no idea how long those in the know really think it will be, but the Swedish approach has been based on that timeframe. I am just saying for the British public I don't think if Boris had come out and said that in March the lockdown would have stuck. Instead, it seems like the message is being managed, first it was perhaps September, then perhaps just after Christmas.
Hang on - a good vaccine by next Summer surely? June to be precise. That's my expectation and it is why I remain quite chipper and support the suppression strategy. If a vaccine is not coming for the general population until 2022 or later - or is only a long shot for working at all - I would start to feel rather bleak. It would mean that herd immunity by infection becomes the best of the bad choices - and the price tag on this is 250k deaths, 1m hospitalizations, large numbers of people left with long term health problems.
I think I prefer Johnson's implausible optimism to your bleak forecast.
Well my forecast is still June 2021 for a good working vaccine. But if that is pie in the sky I'd rather know now so I can mentally prepare for what would likely be a horrible few years.
When I was chairman of Warwick University Tories we had Lord Hurd to speak and he was excellent, would have been a great PM had he won the Tory leadership in 1990, he was a heavyweight Foreign Secretary and not as flashy as Heseltine and brighter than Major but with similar policies
His behaviour over the civil war in Bosnia was an utter disgrace and a stain on his record.
Engaging British troops in a civil war would not really have achieved much other than mass British casualties and he had an excellent Gulf War
Why do you think that was the choice? Allowing the Bosnians to defend themselves was the right moral choice, one which Hurd - disgracefully IMO - set his face against, for no good reason. I mean, it’s not as if Britain has ever had qualms about selling arms to all sorts of disgusting despotic regimes. But apparently selling arms to poor Muslims being slaughtered by a genocidal fascist regime was a step too far.
There was no real national interest in selling British arms to Bosnian rebels in a civil war they were fighting against the Serbs to break up Yugoslavia.
Britain does sell arms abroad but not regularly to one side only in the middle of a civil war to prolong the conflict
Yes there was. One result of Britain’s failure (though not just hers) was the worst war crime in Europe since WW2 - Srebenica - and countless other smaller war crimes.
The Bosnian civil war radicalised a number of young Muslims. See the histories of some of those who later got involved in Al Qaeda and IS and similar groups.
We had every interest in stopping a breeding ground for terrorism.
We had every interest in showing that Muslims who had lived in Europe for centuries would be protected - not slaughtered by a fascist regime, by their ostensibly Christian neighbours.
We had every interest in stopping genocide and war crimes in Europe.
If you do not understand why it was in Britain’s interest to stop these things .... well, I give up.
9/11 still occurred despite US and UK interventions in Bosnia and Kosovo against the Serbs
Interventions which occurred far too late. The damage had been done. The Tory government at the time behaved utterly disgracefully over Bosnia. Even Mrs Thatcher said so at the time.
The idea that intervening on behalf of the Muslim population any earlier against the Serbs would have stopped 9/11 is absurd, Blair was cheered by Kosovan Muslims in 1999 but still 9/11 occurred in 2001 and 7/7 in 2005 and after he backed the US in the Afghanistan and Iraq Wars he was loathed by most Muslims.
As Syria and Libya showed too there is rarely much to be gained from British interventions in civil wars, especially against the incumbent regime and if the rebels are radicals
Well, you - as a presumably typical Tory - are always talking about sending the tanks into Scotland and the task forces to invade Spain.
I don't believe HYUFD is a "typical Tory".
Well I am more so than you are certainly
I would say you are HYUFD.
On the other hand, @Philip_Thompson (assuming he is only one person) is typical of what much of the Tory party has become: The Trump-lite Party; The Popular Front of Little England; The Whatever Populist Piece of Shit Cummings Thinks of Next Party. The Tory Party has become a genuine Nasty Party that has been taken over by the dregs of one of the most effective political machines our sort-of-democracy has ever known. It is probably a passing phase, and like Labour, they will eventually elect a leader that has more credibility, and who will gradually distance him/herself from the swiveleyed thickos that pass themselves off as "Tory" activists; those who would otherwise be very comfortable marching around to martial music shouting "Heil Farage".
Well, you - as a presumably typical Tory - are always talking about sending the tanks into Scotland and the task forces to invade Spain.
Scotland is British territory, it is up to us to sort out and if we want to ban indyref2 until a generation has elapsed since 2014 that is up to us.
Gibraltar is also British territory we have a right to defend from invasion as Kuwait needed to be defended from Iraqi invasion in 1990
I wasn't aware the Kuwait was "British" or Tory property. Or that the overhwelmingly English Tories had an exclusive right to control the majority of the population in the UK.
That's the sort of thinking that leads to tweets like the one you posted.
When I was chairman of Warwick University Tories we had Lord Hurd to speak and he was excellent, would have been a great PM had he won the Tory leadership in 1990, he was a heavyweight Foreign Secretary and not as flashy as Heseltine and brighter than Major but with similar policies
His behaviour over the civil war in Bosnia was an utter disgrace and a stain on his record.
Engaging British troops in a civil war would not really have achieved much other than mass British casualties and he had an excellent Gulf War
Why do you think that was the choice? Allowing the Bosnians to defend themselves was the right moral choice, one which Hurd - disgracefully IMO - set his face against, for no good reason. I mean, it’s not as if Britain has ever had qualms about selling arms to all sorts of disgusting despotic regimes. But apparently selling arms to poor Muslims being slaughtered by a genocidal fascist regime was a step too far.
There was no real national interest in selling British arms to Bosnian rebels in a civil war they were fighting against the Serbs to break up Yugoslavia.
Britain does sell arms abroad but not regularly to one side only in the middle of a civil war to prolong the conflict
Yes there was. One result of Britain’s failure (though not just hers) was the worst war crime in Europe since WW2 - Srebenica - and countless other smaller war crimes.
The Bosnian civil war radicalised a number of young Muslims. See the histories of some of those who later got involved in Al Qaeda and IS and similar groups.
We had every interest in stopping a breeding ground for terrorism.
We had every interest in showing that Muslims who had lived in Europe for centuries would be protected - not slaughtered by a fascist regime, by their ostensibly Christian neighbours.
We had every interest in stopping genocide and war crimes in Europe.
If you do not understand why it was in Britain’s interest to stop these things .... well, I give up.
9/11 still occurred despite US and UK interventions in Bosnia and Kosovo against the Serbs
Interventions which occurred far too late. The damage had been done. The Tory government at the time behaved utterly disgracefully over Bosnia. Even Mrs Thatcher said so at the time.
The echos live on - note that the New Zealand terrorist was an Arkan fanboi.
Well, you - as a presumably typical Tory - are always talking about sending the tanks into Scotland and the task forces to invade Spain.
I don't believe HYUFD is a "typical Tory".
Well I am more so than you are certainly
I would say you are HYUFD.
On the other hand, @Philip_Thompson (assuming he is only one person) is typical of what much of the Tory party has become: The Trump-lite Party; The Popular Front of Little England; The Whatever Populist Piece of Shit Cummings Thinks of Next Party. The Tory Party has become a genuine Nasty Party that has been taken over by the dregs of one of the most effective political machines our sort-of-democracy has ever known. It is probably a passing phase, and like Labour, they will eventually elect a leader that has more credibility, and who will gradually distance him/herself from the swiveleyed thickos that pass themselves off as "Tory" activists; those who would otherwise be very comfortable marching around to martial music shouting "Heil Farage".
I did vote Tory in 2019 even in the European Elections when Philip voted Brexit Party, so I have never voted for Farage as he has
I've seen that said before - is it a PB saying, or is there some special issue involved, please?
The old tales tell of someone, upsetting the Gods Of PB by posting Scottish subsamples.
The damnatio memoriae implemented against that person was so extreme that most deny it ever happened. Some say the timeline was altered so that he never existed.
Oh, not Domitian but XXXXX XXXXX? If his name began with the same sounds as Julius Caesar then a number of allusions over the years now become clear!
Well, you - as a presumably typical Tory - are always talking about sending the tanks into Scotland and the task forces to invade Spain.
Scotland is British territory, it is up to us to sort out and if we want to ban indyref2 until a generation has elapsed since 2014 that is up to us.
Gibraltar is also British territory we have a right to defend from invasion as Kuwait needed to be defended from Iraqi invasion in 1990
Who is this 'us' of whom you speak?
The UK government elected by UK voters last year and which Scotland decided by 55% to continue to have represent them in the 'once in a generation' 2014 referendum
When I was chairman of Warwick University Tories we had Lord Hurd to speak and he was excellent, would have been a great PM had he won the Tory leadership in 1990, he was a heavyweight Foreign Secretary and not as flashy as Heseltine and brighter than Major but with similar policies
His behaviour over the civil war in Bosnia was an utter disgrace and a stain on his record.
Engaging British troops in a civil war would not really have achieved much other than mass British casualties and he had an excellent Gulf War
Why do you think that was the choice? Allowing the Bosnians to defend themselves was the right moral choice, one which Hurd - disgracefully IMO - set his face against, for no good reason. I mean, it’s not as if Britain has ever had qualms about selling arms to all sorts of disgusting despotic regimes. But apparently selling arms to poor Muslims being slaughtered by a genocidal fascist regime was a step too far.
There was no real national interest in selling British arms to Bosnian rebels in a civil war they were fighting against the Serbs to break up Yugoslavia.
Britain does sell arms abroad but not regularly to one side only in the middle of a civil war to prolong the conflict
Yes there was. One result of Britain’s failure (though not just hers) was the worst war crime in Europe since WW2 - Srebenica - and countless other smaller war crimes.
The Bosnian civil war radicalised a number of young Muslims. See the histories of some of those who later got involved in Al Qaeda and IS and similar groups.
We had every interest in stopping a breeding ground for terrorism.
We had every interest in showing that Muslims who had lived in Europe for centuries would be protected - not slaughtered by a fascist regime, by their ostensibly Christian neighbours.
We had every interest in stopping genocide and war crimes in Europe.
If you do not understand why it was in Britain’s interest to stop these things .... well, I give up.
9/11 still occurred despite US and UK interventions in Bosnia and Kosovo against the Serbs
Interventions which occurred far too late. The damage had been done. The Tory government at the time behaved utterly disgracefully over Bosnia. Even Mrs Thatcher said so at the time.
The echos live on - note that the New Zealand terrorist was an Arkan fanboi.
See also the RCP Spiked influence in Tory thinking.
I am a little disappointed that Gavin Williamson's burning of seditious books in English schools has been more or less ignored. My reading is great works like Robert Tressell's "The Ragged Trousered Philanthopists" will be consigned to the dustbin. English schoolchildren under Williamson's proposals will be able to read Mein Kampf at school but not Das Kapital.
When I was chairman of Warwick University Tories we had Lord Hurd to speak and he was excellent, would have been a great PM had he won the Tory leadership in 1990, he was a heavyweight Foreign Secretary and not as flashy as Heseltine and brighter than Major but with similar policies
His behaviour over the civil war in Bosnia was an utter disgrace and a stain on his record.
Engaging British troops in a civil war would not really have achieved much other than mass British casualties and he had an excellent Gulf War
Why do you think that was the choice? Allowing the Bosnians to defend themselves was the right moral choice, one which Hurd - disgracefully IMO - set his face against, for no good reason. I mean, it’s not as if Britain has ever had qualms about selling arms to all sorts of disgusting despotic regimes. But apparently selling arms to poor Muslims being slaughtered by a genocidal fascist regime was a step too far.
There was no real national interest in selling British arms to Bosnian rebels in a civil war they were fighting against the Serbs to break up Yugoslavia.
Britain does sell arms abroad but not regularly to one side only in the middle of a civil war to prolong the conflict
Yes there was. One result of Britain’s failure (though not just hers) was the worst war crime in Europe since WW2 - Srebenica - and countless other smaller war crimes.
The Bosnian civil war radicalised a number of young Muslims. See the histories of some of those who later got involved in Al Qaeda and IS and similar groups.
We had every interest in stopping a breeding ground for terrorism.
We had every interest in showing that Muslims who had lived in Europe for centuries would be protected - not slaughtered by a fascist regime, by their ostensibly Christian neighbours.
We had every interest in stopping genocide and war crimes in Europe.
If you do not understand why it was in Britain’s interest to stop these things .... well, I give up.
9/11 still occurred despite US and UK interventions in Bosnia and Kosovo against the Serbs
Interventions which occurred far too late. The damage had been done. The Tory government at the time behaved utterly disgracefully over Bosnia. Even Mrs Thatcher said so at the time.
The idea that intervening on behalf of the Muslim population any earlier against the Serbs would have stopped 9/11 is absurd, Blair was cheered by Kosovan Muslims in 1999 but still 9/11 occurred in 2001 and 7/7 in 2005 and after he backed the US in the Afghanistan and Iraq Wars he was loathed by most Muslims.
As Syria and Libya showed too there is rarely much to be gained from British interventions in civil wars, especially against the incumbent regime and if the rebels are radicals
I didn’t say it would have. I did say that the failure to act did play a part in radicalising some Muslims and that preventing that was in Britain’s interest.
I note also that you utterly ignore the British interest in stopping genocidal war crimes happening in Europe.
But that’s today’s Tories: all for praying in aid WW2 and Britain doing the right thing to claim how only they are patriotic but utter moral cowards when it came to helping people on the ground during our lifetimes by allowing the legitimate government of Bosnia to defend itself and its people from slaughter.
I've seen that said before - is it a PB saying, or is there some special issue involved, please?
The old tales tell of someone, upsetting the Gods Of PB by posting Scottish subsamples.
The damnatio memoriae implemented against that person was so extreme that most deny it ever happened. Some say the timeline was altered so that he never existed.
Oh, not Domitian but XXXXX XXXXX? If his name began with the same sounds as Julius Caesar then a number of allusions over the years now become clear!
When I was chairman of Warwick University Tories we had Lord Hurd to speak and he was excellent, would have been a great PM had he won the Tory leadership in 1990, he was a heavyweight Foreign Secretary and not as flashy as Heseltine and brighter than Major but with similar policies
His behaviour over the civil war in Bosnia was an utter disgrace and a stain on his record.
Engaging British troops in a civil war would not really have achieved much other than mass British casualties and he had an excellent Gulf War
Why do you think that was the choice? Allowing the Bosnians to defend themselves was the right moral choice, one which Hurd - disgracefully IMO - set his face against, for no good reason. I mean, it’s not as if Britain has ever had qualms about selling arms to all sorts of disgusting despotic regimes. But apparently selling arms to poor Muslims being slaughtered by a genocidal fascist regime was a step too far.
There was no real national interest in selling British arms to Bosnian rebels in a civil war they were fighting against the Serbs to break up Yugoslavia.
Britain does sell arms abroad but not regularly to one side only in the middle of a civil war to prolong the conflict
Yes there was. One result of Britain’s failure (though not just hers) was the worst war crime in Europe since WW2 - Srebenica - and countless other smaller war crimes.
The Bosnian civil war radicalised a number of young Muslims. See the histories of some of those who later got involved in Al Qaeda and IS and similar groups.
We had every interest in stopping a breeding ground for terrorism.
We had every interest in showing that Muslims who had lived in Europe for centuries would be protected - not slaughtered by a fascist regime, by their ostensibly Christian neighbours.
We had every interest in stopping genocide and war crimes in Europe.
If you do not understand why it was in Britain’s interest to stop these things .... well, I give up.
9/11 still occurred despite US and UK interventions in Bosnia and Kosovo against the Serbs
Interventions which occurred far too late. The damage had been done. The Tory government at the time behaved utterly disgracefully over Bosnia. Even Mrs Thatcher said so at the time.
The echos live on - note that the New Zealand terrorist was an Arkan fanboi.
See also the RCP Spiked influence on this government.
I`ve already laid Starmer for Next PM a while back, £100 @ 3.01.
The other bet that stands out to me at the moment is a Lay on Labour to win a Overall Majority at next GE, which I think is ridiculously short at 4.1.
One consolation of heading home is being able to bet on Betfair and Ladbrokes again, neither being possible in Europe. Meanwhile I am in the old part of the Saar, which has a pleasant old town feel on a grey day, despite 75% of the buildings apparently having been destroyed by wartime bombing and then the US Infantry fighting through the town in 1945.
The US debate is an hour later still here and I expect I will miss it. Hopefully Biden will play things nice and safe.
There was a long long queue of lorries waiting to go from Germany to Switzerland this morning. Blink and it could have been 2021 Kent.
The top story on the Mail's website is currently "Boris apologises after he out-bumbles Matt Lucas’s spoof trying to explain how Rule of Six works in North East"
I am a little disappointed that Gavin Williamson's burning of seditious books in English schools has been more or less ignored. My reading is great works like Robert Tressell's "The Ragged Trousered Philanthopists" will be consigned to the dustbin. English schoolchildren under Williamson's proposals will be able to read Mein Kampf at school but not Das Kapital.
When have English schoolchildren ever read Das Kapital? When has it ever been on the syllabus?
Well, you - as a presumably typical Tory - are always talking about sending the tanks into Scotland and the task forces to invade Spain.
I don't believe HYUFD is a "typical Tory".
Well I am more so than you are certainly
I would say you are HYUFD.
On the other hand, @Philip_Thompson (assuming he is only one person) is typical of what much of the Tory party has become: The Trump-lite Party; The Popular Front of Little England; The Whatever Populist Piece of Shit Cummings Thinks of Next Party. The Tory Party has become a genuine Nasty Party that has been taken over by the dregs of one of the most effective political machines our sort-of-democracy has ever known. It is probably a passing phase, and like Labour, they will eventually elect a leader that has more credibility, and who will gradually distance him/herself from the swiveleyed thickos that pass themselves off as "Tory" activists; those who would otherwise be very comfortable marching around to martial music shouting "Heil Farage".
I did vote Tory in 2019 even in the European Elections when Philip voted Brexit Party, so I have never voted for Farage as he has
I voted to make Farage redundant and get him out of the European Parliament.
Given the state of the Tories in 2019, your voting for them does you no credit in my eyes.
I am a little disappointed that Gavin Williamson's burning of seditious books in English schools has been more or less ignored. My reading is great works like Robert Tressell's "The Ragged Trousered Philanthopists" will be consigned to the dustbin. English schoolchildren under Williamson's proposals will be able to read Mein Kampf at school but not Das Kapital.
When have English schoolchildren ever read Das Kapital? When has it ever been on the syllabus?
I am a little disappointed that Gavin Williamson's burning of seditious books in English schools has been more or less ignored. My reading is great works like Robert Tressell's "The Ragged Trousered Philanthopists" will be consigned to the dustbin. English schoolchildren under Williamson's proposals will be able to read Mein Kampf at school but not Das Kapital.
When have English schoolchildren ever read Das Kapital? When has it ever been on the syllabus?
My school, at least in the sixth form political theory special lessons (as were Hobbes, Locke and Mill), though not as the book but in precis/summary form.
I am a little disappointed that Gavin Williamson's burning of seditious books in English schools has been more or less ignored. My reading is great works like Robert Tressell's "The Ragged Trousered Philanthopists" will be consigned to the dustbin. English schoolchildren under Williamson's proposals will be able to read Mein Kampf at school but not Das Kapital.
When have English schoolchildren ever read Das Kapital? When has it ever been on the syllabus?
My school, at least in the sixth form political theory special lessons (as were Hobbes, Locke and Mill), though not as the book but in precis/summary form.
Does Gavin Williamson’s dictat apply to sixth form political theory? I doubt it somehow.
When I was chairman of Warwick University Tories we had Lord Hurd to speak and he was excellent, would have been a great PM had he won the Tory leadership in 1990, he was a heavyweight Foreign Secretary and not as flashy as Heseltine and brighter than Major but with similar policies
His behaviour over the civil war in Bosnia was an utter disgrace and a stain on his record.
Engaging British troops in a civil war would not really have achieved much other than mass British casualties and he had an excellent Gulf War
Why do you think that was the choice? Allowing the Bosnians to defend themselves was the right moral choice, one which Hurd - disgracefully IMO - set his face against, for no good reason. I mean, it’s not as if Britain has ever had qualms about selling arms to all sorts of disgusting despotic regimes. But apparently selling arms to poor Muslims being slaughtered by a genocidal fascist regime was a step too far.
There was no real national interest in selling British arms to Bosnian rebels in a civil war they were fighting against the Serbs to break up Yugoslavia.
Britain does sell arms abroad but not regularly to one side only in the middle of a civil war to prolong the conflict
Yes there was. One result of Britain’s failure (though not just hers) was the worst war crime in Europe since WW2 - Srebenica - and countless other smaller war crimes.
The Bosnian civil war radicalised a number of young Muslims. See the histories of some of those who later got involved in Al Qaeda and IS and similar groups.
We had every interest in stopping a breeding ground for terrorism.
We had every interest in showing that Muslims who had lived in Europe for centuries would be protected - not slaughtered by a fascist regime, by their ostensibly Christian neighbours.
We had every interest in stopping genocide and war crimes in Europe.
If you do not understand why it was in Britain’s interest to stop these things .... well, I give up.
9/11 still occurred despite US and UK interventions in Bosnia and Kosovo against the Serbs
Interventions which occurred far too late. The damage had been done. The Tory government at the time behaved utterly disgracefully over Bosnia. Even Mrs Thatcher said so at the time.
The idea that intervening on behalf of the Muslim population any earlier against the Serbs would have stopped 9/11 is absurd, Blair was cheered by Kosovan Muslims in 1999 but still 9/11 occurred in 2001 and 7/7 in 2005 and after he backed the US in the Afghanistan and Iraq Wars he was loathed by most Muslims.
As Syria and Libya showed too there is rarely much to be gained from British interventions in civil wars, especially against the incumbent regime and if the rebels are radicals
I didn’t say it would have. I did say that the failure to act did play a part in radicalising some Muslims and that preventing that was in Britain’s interest.
I note also that you utterly ignore the British interest in stopping genocidal war crimes happening in Europe.
But that’s today’s Tories: all for praying in aid WW2 and Britain doing the right thing to claim how only they are patriotic but utter moral cowards when it came to helping people on the ground during our lifetimes by allowing the legitimate government of Bosnia to defend itself and its people from slaughter.
The Tories have traditionally always been the party of realpolitik and national interest first, it is the Liberals from Gladstone and his opposition to Turkey over the Balkans massacres to Blair (who was basically a Liberal PM) who have been the party most in favour of moral interventions in foreign conflicts and civil wars, as also Ashdown was in Bosnia. It was also Clegg and the LDs who were pushing Cameron to intervene in Syria against Assad
I've seen that said before - is it a PB saying, or is there some special issue involved, please?
The old tales tell of someone, upsetting the Gods Of PB by posting Scottish subsamples.
The damnatio memoriae implemented against that person was so extreme that most deny it ever happened. Some say the timeline was altered so that he never existed.
Oh, not Domitian but XXXXX XXXXX? If his name began with the same sounds as Julius Caesar then a number of allusions over the years now become clear!
Name Him Not!
We have not only the Scottish Play but the Scottish Psephologist.
Not that I want to bet on this, but I think Greens to get more votes than the Lib Dems is a real possibility at the next election.
In 2019 the Lib Dems stood 611 candidates (lower than normal as they stood aside for some ex-Tories) and the Greens 472.
I'd be surprised if the Greens spent so much on lost deposits next time. Their number of candidates in previous elections (backwards from 2017) was: 457, 538, 310 and 182 in 2005.
Even if the missing 150-200 candidates are all in the weakest areas it still adds up to lots of votes missing from the total.
I am a little disappointed that Gavin Williamson's burning of seditious books in English schools has been more or less ignored. My reading is great works like Robert Tressell's "The Ragged Trousered Philanthopists" will be consigned to the dustbin. English schoolchildren under Williamson's proposals will be able to read Mein Kampf at school but not Das Kapital.
When have English schoolchildren ever read Das Kapital? When has it ever been on the syllabus?
Not sure I could have studied European History 1870-1953 at school without at least some passing reference to anti-capitalist, anti-democratic and anti-Semitic sources and authors.
When I was chairman of Warwick University Tories we had Lord Hurd to speak and he was excellent, would have been a great PM had he won the Tory leadership in 1990, he was a heavyweight Foreign Secretary and not as flashy as Heseltine and brighter than Major but with similar policies
His behaviour over the civil war in Bosnia was an utter disgrace and a stain on his record.
Engaging British troops in a civil war would not really have achieved much other than mass British casualties and he had an excellent Gulf War
Why do you think that was the choice? Allowing the Bosnians to defend themselves was the right moral choice, one which Hurd - disgracefully IMO - set his face against, for no good reason. I mean, it’s not as if Britain has ever had qualms about selling arms to all sorts of disgusting despotic regimes. But apparently selling arms to poor Muslims being slaughtered by a genocidal fascist regime was a step too far.
There was no real national interest in selling British arms to Bosnian rebels in a civil war they were fighting against the Serbs to break up Yugoslavia.
Britain does sell arms abroad but not regularly to one side only in the middle of a civil war to prolong the conflict
Yes there was. One result of Britain’s failure (though not just hers) was the worst war crime in Europe since WW2 - Srebenica - and countless other smaller war crimes.
The Bosnian civil war radicalised a number of young Muslims. See the histories of some of those who later got involved in Al Qaeda and IS and similar groups.
We had every interest in stopping a breeding ground for terrorism.
We had every interest in showing that Muslims who had lived in Europe for centuries would be protected - not slaughtered by a fascist regime, by their ostensibly Christian neighbours.
We had every interest in stopping genocide and war crimes in Europe.
If you do not understand why it was in Britain’s interest to stop these things .... well, I give up.
9/11 still occurred despite US and UK interventions in Bosnia and Kosovo against the Serbs
Interventions which occurred far too late. The damage had been done. The Tory government at the time behaved utterly disgracefully over Bosnia. Even Mrs Thatcher said so at the time.
The idea that intervening on behalf of the Muslim population any earlier against the Serbs would have stopped 9/11 is absurd, Blair was cheered by Kosovan Muslims in 1999 but still 9/11 occurred in 2001 and 7/7 in 2005 and after he backed the US in the Afghanistan and Iraq Wars he was loathed by most Muslims.
As Syria and Libya showed too there is rarely much to be gained from British interventions in civil wars, especially against the incumbent regime and if the rebels are radicals
I didn’t say it would have. I did say that the failure to act did play a part in radicalising some Muslims and that preventing that was in Britain’s interest.
I note also that you utterly ignore the British interest in stopping genocidal war crimes happening in Europe.
But that’s today’s Tories: all for praying in aid WW2 and Britain doing the right thing to claim how only they are patriotic but utter moral cowards when it came to helping people on the ground during our lifetimes by allowing the legitimate government of Bosnia to defend itself and its people from slaughter.
The Tories have traditionally always been the party of realpolitik and national interest first, it is the Liberals from Gladstone and his opposition to Turkey over the Balkans massacres to Blair (who was basically a Liberal PM) who have been the party most in favour of moral interventions in foreign conflicts and civil wars, as also Ashdown was in Bosnia
Since when did you care about the national interest? All you’re interested in is what is in the Conservative Party interest and that is not always the same thing.
I am a little disappointed that Gavin Williamson's burning of seditious books in English schools has been more or less ignored. My reading is great works like Robert Tressell's "The Ragged Trousered Philanthopists" will be consigned to the dustbin. English schoolchildren under Williamson's proposals will be able to read Mein Kampf at school but not Das Kapital.
When have English schoolchildren ever read Das Kapital? When has it ever been on the syllabus?
My school, at least in the sixth form political theory special lessons (as were Hobbes, Locke and Mill), though not as the book but in precis/summary form.
Does Gavin Williamson’s dictat apply to sixth form political theory? I doubt it somehow.
He has demanded the removal of anti-Capitalist books. I would suggest that being the case, Das Kapital is the daddy!
Well, you - as a presumably typical Tory - are always talking about sending the tanks into Scotland and the task forces to invade Spain.
I don't believe HYUFD is a "typical Tory".
Well I am more so than you are certainly
I don't claim to be typical.
I am me. I don't want to be typical.
How typical is that?
I am rather hoping he is unique, but sadly there are a load of swivel eyed nutters who have taken over the Conservative Party who think exactly the same. Then you have also got all the folk that vote Trump.
.. but I've also sold 'China Virus' £5 a mention at 5 on Sporting Index (they have spreads on the number of times a few phrases/words are used).
This post suggests that Ladbrokes (or maybe another bookie) are running a "bingo" mention market on tonight's Presidential Debate but I haven't been able to locate this ... could Richard or another PBer kindly direct me please?
The top story on the Mail's website is currently "Boris apologises after he out-bumbles Matt Lucas’s spoof trying to explain how Rule of Six works in North East"
Well, you - as a presumably typical Tory - are always talking about sending the tanks into Scotland and the task forces to invade Spain.
I don't believe HYUFD is a "typical Tory".
Well I am more so than you are certainly
I would say you are HYUFD.
On the other hand, @Philip_Thompson (assuming he is only one person) is typical of what much of the Tory party has become: The Trump-lite Party; The Popular Front of Little England; The Whatever Populist Piece of Shit Cummings Thinks of Next Party. The Tory Party has become a genuine Nasty Party that has been taken over by the dregs of one of the most effective political machines our sort-of-democracy has ever known. It is probably a passing phase, and like Labour, they will eventually elect a leader that has more credibility, and who will gradually distance him/herself from the swiveleyed thickos that pass themselves off as "Tory" activists; those who would otherwise be very comfortable marching around to martial music shouting "Heil Farage".
I did vote Tory in 2019 even in the European Elections when Philip voted Brexit Party, so I have never voted for Farage as he has
This post suggests that Ladbrokes (or maybe another bookie) are running a "bingo" mention market on tonight's Presidential Debate but I haven't been able to locate this ... could Richard or another PBer kindly direct me please?
I am a little disappointed that Gavin Williamson's burning of seditious books in English schools has been more or less ignored. My reading is great works like Robert Tressell's "The Ragged Trousered Philanthopists" will be consigned to the dustbin. English schoolchildren under Williamson's proposals will be able to read Mein Kampf at school but not Das Kapital.
When have English schoolchildren ever read Das Kapital? When has it ever been on the syllabus?
My school, at least in the sixth form political theory special lessons (as were Hobbes, Locke and Mill), though not as the book but in precis/summary form.
Does Gavin Williamson’s dictat apply to sixth form political theory? I doubt it somehow.
He has demanded the removal of anti-Capitalist books. I would suggest that being the case, Das Kapital is the daddy!
For that he should resign both as minister and MP it’s an affront to Democracy.
I`ve already laid Starmer for Next PM a while back, £100 @ 3.01.
The other bet that stands out to me at the moment is a Lay on Labour to win a Overall Majority at next GE, which I think is ridiculously short at 4.1.
Yes.
I can see Labour getting to 290 seats with a fair wind but getting to 326 seats is very tough.
It would need a Labour resurgence in Scotland, I find that unlikely.
That is undoubtedly true. The only hope of achieving 326 is if the Tories, as incumbents, take all the blame for the economic armageddon that follows Covid (never mind no -deal Brexit).
I`ve already laid Starmer for Next PM a while back, £100 @ 3.01.
The other bet that stands out to me at the moment is a Lay on Labour to win a Overall Majority at next GE, which I think is ridiculously short at 4.1.
Yes.
I can see Labour getting to 290 seats with a fair wind but getting to 326 seats is very tough.
It would need a Labour resurgence in Scotland, I find that unlikely.
That is undoubtedly true. The only hope of achieving 326 is if the Tories, as incumbents, take all the blame for the economic armageddon that follows Covid (never mind no -deal Brexit).
Or a massively split right-wing vote due to Farage etc.
I`ve already laid Starmer for Next PM a while back, £100 @ 3.01.
The other bet that stands out to me at the moment is a Lay on Labour to win a Overall Majority at next GE, which I think is ridiculously short at 4.1.
Yes.
I can see Labour getting to 290 seats with a fair wind but getting to 326 seats is very tough.
It would need a Labour resurgence in Scotland, I find that unlikely.
That is undoubtedly true. The only hope of achieving 326 is if the Tories, as incumbents, take all the blame for the economic armageddon that follows Covid (never mind no -deal Brexit).
Or a massively split right-wing vote due to Farage etc.
I've seen that said before - is it a PB saying, or is there some special issue involved, please?
The old tales tell of someone, upsetting the Gods Of PB by posting Scottish subsamples.
The damnatio memoriae implemented against that person was so extreme that most deny it ever happened. Some say the timeline was altered so that he never existed.
Oh, not Domitian but XXXXX XXXXX? If his name began with the same sounds as Julius Caesar then a number of allusions over the years now become clear!
Name Him Not!
We have not only the Scottish Play but the Scottish Psephologist.
I`ve already laid Starmer for Next PM a while back, £100 @ 3.01.
The other bet that stands out to me at the moment is a Lay on Labour to win a Overall Majority at next GE, which I think is ridiculously short at 4.1.
Yes.
I can see Labour getting to 290 seats with a fair wind but getting to 326 seats is very tough.
It would need a Labour resurgence in Scotland, I find that unlikely.
That is undoubtedly true. The only hope of achieving 326 is if the Tories, as incumbents, take all the blame for the economic armageddon that follows Covid (never mind no -deal Brexit).
Or a massively split right-wing vote due to Farage etc.
I am a little disappointed that Gavin Williamson's burning of seditious books in English schools has been more or less ignored. My reading is great works like Robert Tressell's "The Ragged Trousered Philanthopists" will be consigned to the dustbin. English schoolchildren under Williamson's proposals will be able to read Mein Kampf at school but not Das Kapital.
Ironically, this is positively Soviet!
Thanks for that, MexicanPete. It had indeed escaped my notice.
I realise of course that we are living under an increasingly right-wing dictatorship, but does the useless Williamson have the power to ban anything in schools?
I am a little disappointed that Gavin Williamson's burning of seditious books in English schools has been more or less ignored. My reading is great works like Robert Tressell's "The Ragged Trousered Philanthopists" will be consigned to the dustbin. English schoolchildren under Williamson's proposals will be able to read Mein Kampf at school but not Das Kapital.
Ironically, this is positively Soviet!
The problem with RTP is that it is very poorly structured and lacks narrative momentum. Zola's L'Assommoir and Sinclair's The Jungle are both superior meditations on on similar themes.
Lenin's The State and Revolution should be compulsory reading for all children so they grew up understanding that revolution is beautiful.
I am a little disappointed that Gavin Williamson's burning of seditious books in English schools has been more or less ignored. My reading is great works like Robert Tressell's "The Ragged Trousered Philanthopists" will be consigned to the dustbin. English schoolchildren under Williamson's proposals will be able to read Mein Kampf at school but not Das Kapital.
When have English schoolchildren ever read Das Kapital? When has it ever been on the syllabus?
My school, at least in the sixth form political theory special lessons (as were Hobbes, Locke and Mill), though not as the book but in precis/summary form.
Does Gavin Williamson’s dictat apply to sixth form political theory? I doubt it somehow.
He has demanded the removal of anti-Capitalist books. I would suggest that being the case, Das Kapital is the daddy!
There's a book exchange at our local station. I guess they are anti-capitalist books.
I think he's very confident there'll be a vaccine soon. He keeps talking up vaccines as the solution.
Your faith in these people relinquishing the political smack of unscrutinised rule by diktat 'cos vaccine' is going to prove to be very wrong.
We are already being told a vaccine will not be a silver bullet by the medical establishment. We are going to need Johnson out and Cummings with him to break free of this authoritarianism. Johnson stinks of Cummings's arrogance.
Imagine if Boris said well it is going to be like this for next 2 years with a long winter ahead.
It was hard enough for people to stick to things for 3 months. I am sure this carrot just out of reach is an approach being offered by the behavioural insight people as a way to keep people thinking I will just do this for another few weeks. Hence why the talk of back to normal for Christmas, to give people some hope.
Two years? that's the truth? That's what central office really thinks? FFS.
I have no idea how long those in the know really think it will be, but the Swedish approach has been based on that timeframe. I am just saying for the British public I don't think if Boris had come out and said that in March the lockdown would have stuck. Instead, it seems like the message is being managed, first it was perhaps September, then perhaps just after Christmas.
Hang on - a good vaccine by next Summer surely? June to be precise. That's my expectation and it is why I remain quite chipper and support the suppression strategy. If a vaccine is not coming for the general population until 2022 or later - or is only a long shot for working at all - I would start to feel rather bleak. It would mean that herd immunity by infection becomes the best of the bad choices - and the price tag on this is 250k deaths, 1m hospitalizations, large numbers of people left with long term health problems.
Well, the bleak take is: 1. No herd immunity by infection is possible for reasons (see Brazil). 2. The first vaccines will only be partially helpful - they may stop infection of the lung (and therefore death), but not of the upper respiratory tract (so won't stop spread), and may not be effective in the old (those most at risk). 3. The early vaccines may also have severe enough side effects, albeit temporary and not dangerous, that it will restrict how quickly you can vaccinate people (because you can't have all the staff in a hospital suffering with side-effects at the same time).
I don't see what this leaves us with except the WHO's advice from the beginning and all the way through: test, trace, isolate.
I am a little disappointed that Gavin Williamson's burning of seditious books in English schools has been more or less ignored. My reading is great works like Robert Tressell's "The Ragged Trousered Philanthopists" will be consigned to the dustbin. English schoolchildren under Williamson's proposals will be able to read Mein Kampf at school but not Das Kapital.
When have English schoolchildren ever read Das Kapital? When has it ever been on the syllabus?
My school, at least in the sixth form political theory special lessons (as were Hobbes, Locke and Mill), though not as the book but in precis/summary form.
Does Gavin Williamson’s dictat apply to sixth form political theory? I doubt it somehow.
He has demanded the removal of anti-Capitalist books. I would suggest that being the case, Das Kapital is the daddy!
For that he should resign both as minister and MP it’s an affront to Democracy.
It is just part of the culture war at the moment, but who knows where these small steps lead.
I`ve already laid Starmer for Next PM a while back, £100 @ 3.01.
The other bet that stands out to me at the moment is a Lay on Labour to win a Overall Majority at next GE, which I think is ridiculously short at 4.1.
Yes.
I can see Labour getting to 290 seats with a fair wind but getting to 326 seats is very tough.
It would need a Labour resurgence in Scotland, I find that unlikely.
That is undoubtedly true. The only hope of achieving 326 is if the Tories, as incumbents, take all the blame for the economic armageddon that follows Covid (never mind no -deal Brexit).
It seems that some people are wishing for Armageddon following Brexit and COVID.
The idea we might actually enter a strong growth period post transition and post vaccine seems unthinkable and unfortunate to many
Andalucia gets the 'rule of 6' amidst overwhelming evidence that family gatherings this summer have been the prime cause of the second wave in the region. One town in seville gets a 14 day lockdown.
I am a little disappointed that Gavin Williamson's burning of seditious books in English schools has been more or less ignored. My reading is great works like Robert Tressell's "The Ragged Trousered Philanthopists" will be consigned to the dustbin. English schoolchildren under Williamson's proposals will be able to read Mein Kampf at school but not Das Kapital.
Ironically, this is positively Soviet!
The problem with RTP is that it is very poorly structured and lacks narrative momentum. Zola's L'Assommoir and Sinclair's The Jungle are both superior meditations on on similar themes.
Lenin's The State and Revolution should be compulsory reading for all children so they grew up understanding that revolution is beautiful.
Every time I hear a man advocating revolution, I think of a video I saw showing what happens when you *really* give the people the revolution they want.
Andalucia gets the 'rule of 6' amidst overwhelming evidence that family gatherings this summer have been the prime cause of the second wave in the region. One town in seville gets a 14 day lockdown.
Family gatherings seem to be the issue all over, but still people bang on about beer gardens and beaches.
I`ve already laid Starmer for Next PM a while back, £100 @ 3.01.
The other bet that stands out to me at the moment is a Lay on Labour to win a Overall Majority at next GE, which I think is ridiculously short at 4.1.
Yes.
I can see Labour getting to 290 seats with a fair wind but getting to 326 seats is very tough.
It would need a Labour resurgence in Scotland, I find that unlikely.
That is undoubtedly true. The only hope of achieving 326 is if the Tories, as incumbents, take all the blame for the economic armageddon that follows Covid (never mind no -deal Brexit).
It seems that some people are wishing for Armageddon following Brexit and COVID.
The idea we might actually enter a strong growth period post transition and post vaccine seems unthinkable and unfortunate to many
Not wishing it at all, that is not to say a crash is not inevitable. If Sunak and Johnson can avoid 1930s style hardship they are indeed a pair of impressive geniuses.
I cannot see any government of any hue, that has been impacted by Covid not suffering with an horrific aftershock.
I am a little disappointed that Gavin Williamson's burning of seditious books in English schools has been more or less ignored. My reading is great works like Robert Tressell's "The Ragged Trousered Philanthopists" will be consigned to the dustbin. English schoolchildren under Williamson's proposals will be able to read Mein Kampf at school but not Das Kapital.
When have English schoolchildren ever read Das Kapital? When has it ever been on the syllabus?
My school, at least in the sixth form political theory special lessons (as were Hobbes, Locke and Mill), though not as the book but in precis/summary form.
Does Gavin Williamson’s dictat apply to sixth form political theory? I doubt it somehow.
He has demanded the removal of anti-Capitalist books. I would suggest that being the case, Das Kapital is the daddy!
Whilst I have been saying for yonks that Gavin Williamson is useless, I feel compelled to point out that, no, he hasn't ' demanded the removal of anti-Capitalist books'.
If you are going to criticise politicians, you really do need to get basic facts right:
“Schools should not under any circumstances use resources produced by organisations that take extreme political stances on matters.
“This is the case even if the material itself is not extreme, as the use of it could imply endorsement or support of the organisation.”
The document adds: “Extreme political stances include, but are not limited to… a publicly stated desire to abolish or overthrow democracy, capitalism, or to end free and fair elections.”
I`ve already laid Starmer for Next PM a while back, £100 @ 3.01.
The other bet that stands out to me at the moment is a Lay on Labour to win a Overall Majority at next GE, which I think is ridiculously short at 4.1.
Yes.
I can see Labour getting to 290 seats with a fair wind but getting to 326 seats is very tough.
It would need a Labour resurgence in Scotland, I find that unlikely.
That is undoubtedly true. The only hope of achieving 326 is if the Tories, as incumbents, take all the blame for the economic armageddon that follows Covid (never mind no -deal Brexit).
It seems that some people are wishing for Armageddon following Brexit and COVID.
The idea we might actually enter a strong growth period post transition and post vaccine seems unthinkable and unfortunate to many
It's unthinkable only because I can't see (as someone with an economics degree and a businessman) how it actually occurs...
I am a little disappointed that Gavin Williamson's burning of seditious books in English schools has been more or less ignored. My reading is great works like Robert Tressell's "The Ragged Trousered Philanthopists" will be consigned to the dustbin. English schoolchildren under Williamson's proposals will be able to read Mein Kampf at school but not Das Kapital.
Ironically, this is positively Soviet!
The problem with RTP is that it is very poorly structured and lacks narrative momentum. Zola's L'Assommoir and Sinclair's The Jungle are both superior meditations on on similar themes.
Lenin's The State and Revolution should be compulsory reading for all children so they grew up understanding that revolution is beautiful.
I am a little disappointed that Gavin Williamson's burning of seditious books in English schools has been more or less ignored. My reading is great works like Robert Tressell's "The Ragged Trousered Philanthopists" will be consigned to the dustbin. English schoolchildren under Williamson's proposals will be able to read Mein Kampf at school but not Das Kapital.
When have English schoolchildren ever read Das Kapital? When has it ever been on the syllabus?
My school, at least in the sixth form political theory special lessons (as were Hobbes, Locke and Mill), though not as the book but in precis/summary form.
Does Gavin Williamson’s dictat apply to sixth form political theory? I doubt it somehow.
He has demanded the removal of anti-Capitalist books. I would suggest that being the case, Das Kapital is the daddy!
Whilst I have been saying for yonks that Gavin Williamson is useless, I feel compelled to point out that, no, he hasn't ' demanded the removal of anti-Capitalist books'.
If you are going to criticise politicians, you really do need to get basic facts right:
“Schools should not under any circumstances use resources produced by organisations that take extreme political stances on matters.
“This is the case even if the material itself is not extreme, as the use of it could imply endorsement or support of the organisation.”
The document adds: “Extreme political stances include, but are not limited to… a publicly stated desire to abolish or overthrow democracy, capitalism, or to end free and fair elections.”
Well that is Das Kapital in the bin. The last statement is vague enough to cover all that has been discussed.
Andalucia gets the 'rule of 6' amidst overwhelming evidence that family gatherings this summer have been the prime cause of the second wave in the region. One town in seville gets a 14 day lockdown.
Family gatherings seem to be the issue all over, but still people bang on about beer gardens and beaches.
It looks like it`s all boiling down to the viral dose, doesn`t it. If so, masks and social distancing could suffice.
I am a little disappointed that Gavin Williamson's burning of seditious books in English schools has been more or less ignored. My reading is great works like Robert Tressell's "The Ragged Trousered Philanthopists" will be consigned to the dustbin. English schoolchildren under Williamson's proposals will be able to read Mein Kampf at school but not Das Kapital.
When have English schoolchildren ever read Das Kapital? When has it ever been on the syllabus?
My school, at least in the sixth form political theory special lessons (as were Hobbes, Locke and Mill), though not as the book but in precis/summary form.
Does Gavin Williamson’s dictat apply to sixth form political theory? I doubt it somehow.
He has demanded the removal of anti-Capitalist books. I would suggest that being the case, Das Kapital is the daddy!
Whilst I have been saying for yonks that Gavin Williamson is useless, I feel compelled to point out that, no, he hasn't ' demanded the removal of anti-Capitalist books'.
If you are going to criticise politicians, you really do need to get basic facts right:
“Schools should not under any circumstances use resources produced by organisations that take extreme political stances on matters.
“This is the case even if the material itself is not extreme, as the use of it could imply endorsement or support of the organisation.”
The document adds: “Extreme political stances include, but are not limited to… a publicly stated desire to abolish or overthrow democracy, capitalism, or to end free and fair elections.”
Schools shouldn't be a place for propaganda, yes. At the same time banning material from.the classroom feels wrong. I can understand disallowing terrorist propaganda to be presented as fact in the classroom though so on balance it's a good measure. My worry is that politicians are in charge of drawing the line and it gives the ruling party of the day a lot of control over the curriculum without having to change it. How long until a future Labour government decided that all groups linked to slavery in the past should be barred from the curriculum so no more books from OUP etc...
Someone important may well have dropped dead in Kuwait. Might be the Emir himself.
Revolution apparently is great, notably every revolution installing a dictatorship in modern times seems to be soaked in blood. Revolutions genuinely moving to more democratic systems are a bit uneven, some were messy some largely peaceful. You can perhaps say that the actual aim of the revolution can help predict how much blood is shed.
I am a little disappointed that Gavin Williamson's burning of seditious books in English schools has been more or less ignored. My reading is great works like Robert Tressell's "The Ragged Trousered Philanthopists" will be consigned to the dustbin. English schoolchildren under Williamson's proposals will be able to read Mein Kampf at school but not Das Kapital.
When have English schoolchildren ever read Das Kapital? When has it ever been on the syllabus?
My school, at least in the sixth form political theory special lessons (as were Hobbes, Locke and Mill), though not as the book but in precis/summary form.
Does Gavin Williamson’s dictat apply to sixth form political theory? I doubt it somehow.
He has demanded the removal of anti-Capitalist books. I would suggest that being the case, Das Kapital is the daddy!
Whilst I have been saying for yonks that Gavin Williamson is useless, I feel compelled to point out that, no, he hasn't ' demanded the removal of anti-Capitalist books'.
If you are going to criticise politicians, you really do need to get basic facts right:
“Schools should not under any circumstances use resources produced by organisations that take extreme political stances on matters.
“This is the case even if the material itself is not extreme, as the use of it could imply endorsement or support of the organisation.”
The document adds: “Extreme political stances include, but are not limited to… a publicly stated desire to abolish or overthrow democracy, capitalism, or to end free and fair elections.”
"Include but are not limited to" is the key phrase though. Who decides? Who pays them to decide? Who oversees them? And, crucially, was this ever a problem in the first place? It's bollocks, and dangerous bollocks too, whatever the fine print.
The North/South divide in Hospital Covid deaths in extraordinary. Out of the 44 deaths recorded 3 were in London, 1 in the South East and Zero in the South West.
Well, you - as a presumably typical Tory - are always talking about sending the tanks into Scotland and the task forces to invade Spain.
I don't believe HYUFD is a "typical Tory".
Well I am more so than you are certainly
I don't claim to be typical.
I am me. I don't want to be typical.
How typical is that?
Good question.
My philosophy is one where I fundamentally believe in individualism and not communitarianism.
As such fitting in a mould as HYUFD tries to do as a "typical Tory" seems to be rather counter-intuitive to my philosophy.
Indeed you are more a Liberal or libertarian than a traditional Tory.
The Tory Party was originally the party of the monarchy, landed gentry and the Anglican church and as you are a republican atheist you can never really be a true Tory
I am a little disappointed that Gavin Williamson's burning of seditious books in English schools has been more or less ignored. My reading is great works like Robert Tressell's "The Ragged Trousered Philanthopists" will be consigned to the dustbin. English schoolchildren under Williamson's proposals will be able to read Mein Kampf at school but not Das Kapital.
When have English schoolchildren ever read Das Kapital? When has it ever been on the syllabus?
My school, at least in the sixth form political theory special lessons (as were Hobbes, Locke and Mill), though not as the book but in precis/summary form.
Does Gavin Williamson’s dictat apply to sixth form political theory? I doubt it somehow.
He has demanded the removal of anti-Capitalist books. I would suggest that being the case, Das Kapital is the daddy!
Whilst I have been saying for yonks that Gavin Williamson is useless, I feel compelled to point out that, no, he hasn't ' demanded the removal of anti-Capitalist books'.
If you are going to criticise politicians, you really do need to get basic facts right:
“Schools should not under any circumstances use resources produced by organisations that take extreme political stances on matters.
“This is the case even if the material itself is not extreme, as the use of it could imply endorsement or support of the organisation.”
The document adds: “Extreme political stances include, but are not limited to… a publicly stated desire to abolish or overthrow democracy, capitalism, or to end free and fair elections.”
Well that is Das Kapital in the bin. The last statement is vague enough to cover all that has been discussed.
The guidance prohibits material from an organisation that is "extreme".
So, a pamphlet from the Socialist Workers Party that explains why Das Kapital is still relevant today is banned. Das Kapital, published by the noted revolutionaries at Penguin books, is not.
I am a little disappointed that Gavin Williamson's burning of seditious books in English schools has been more or less ignored. My reading is great works like Robert Tressell's "The Ragged Trousered Philanthopists" will be consigned to the dustbin. English schoolchildren under Williamson's proposals will be able to read Mein Kampf at school but not Das Kapital.
When have English schoolchildren ever read Das Kapital? When has it ever been on the syllabus?
My school, at least in the sixth form political theory special lessons (as were Hobbes, Locke and Mill), though not as the book but in precis/summary form.
Does Gavin Williamson’s dictat apply to sixth form political theory? I doubt it somehow.
He has demanded the removal of anti-Capitalist books. I would suggest that being the case, Das Kapital is the daddy!
Whilst I have been saying for yonks that Gavin Williamson is useless, I feel compelled to point out that, no, he hasn't ' demanded the removal of anti-Capitalist books'.
If you are going to criticise politicians, you really do need to get basic facts right:
“Schools should not under any circumstances use resources produced by organisations that take extreme political stances on matters.
“This is the case even if the material itself is not extreme, as the use of it could imply endorsement or support of the organisation.”
The document adds: “Extreme political stances include, but are not limited to… a publicly stated desire to abolish or overthrow democracy, capitalism, or to end free and fair elections.”
Well that is Das Kapital in the bin. The last statement is vague enough to cover all that has been discussed.
No the point is that Das Kapital can still be studied, but it can't be presented as fact to students. I meet a lot of young people who are absolutely certain that communism has absolutely no downsides because their teachers and professors all said it's never really been done properly.
Certainly at the moment the range of criticism in the media and elsewhere will I suspect lead to Johnson being removed well before the next GE. I'd also accept that mistakes have been made and continue to be made regarding the pandemic. However, the course charted by the UK government has been remarkably similar to that charted by other European countries most of which are having a more severe second wave at the moment. The depth of criticism in the UK is greater for a nmber of reasons: 1. Brexit - many those in the media who lost their minds over the defeat in the referendum conti8nue to be willing to do anything to grab victory from the jaws of defeat. 2. General politics - after the scale of the GE defeat the opposition have been handed a near invincible tool with which to beat the government. Starmer in the main has held back sensibly but others have not. 3. The libertarian wing of the Tory party have joined others who have convinced themselves that the cure is worse than the disease. They are unwilling to accept the restrictions needed to hold the disease at bay until a vaccine/treatment is available. I personally find most of the restrictions mindblowingly mild - others do not. 4. Johnson is a politician who while clearly a winner on the electoral stage also inspires the same sort of venomous hatred from the media class that they also hold for the 'thick voters' who kicked them in the teeth in 2016 and again last year.
I'm sure other factors are in play and I cannot pretend I'd not prefer someone like Sunak in charge right now. I just wish that the media and some of the public had taken a different approach to getting us through this awful crisis. I've said it often here but believe it more and more with the passing days - we cannot go back to normal for quite a while yet.
Andalucia gets the 'rule of 6' amidst overwhelming evidence that family gatherings this summer have been the prime cause of the second wave in the region. One town in seville gets a 14 day lockdown.
Family gatherings seem to be the issue all over, but still people bang on about beer gardens and beaches.
I do suspect that many cases do originate at parties, clubs, etc but most revellersd head back to the family at some point.
BF has a market named "Electoral College Vote H'cap" and the handicap is pitched at 48.5 in Trump`s favour. On this basis the odds are 1.93 Trump, 2.06 Biden.
So, near on a 100% book and I`ve had a very small bet on Biden at those odds.
Comments
The Bosnian civil war radicalised a number of young Muslims. See the histories of some of those who later got involved in Al Qaeda and IS and similar groups.
We had every interest in stopping a breeding ground for terrorism.
We had every interest in showing that Muslims who had lived in Europe for centuries would be protected - not slaughtered by a fascist regime, by their ostensibly Christian neighbours.
We had every interest in stopping genocide and war crimes in Europe.
If you do not understand why it was in Britain’s interest to stop these things .... well, I give up.
I suspect the odds won't be that different come January 2024.
Gibraltar is also British territory we have a right to defend from invasion as Kuwait needed to be defended from Iraqi invasion in 1990
The damnatio memoriae implemented against that person was so extreme that most deny it ever happened. Some say the timeline was altered so that he never existed.
I am me. I don't want to be typical.
I can see Labour getting to 290 seats with a fair wind but getting to 326 seats is very tough.
As Syria and Libya showed too there is rarely much to be gained from British interventions in civil wars, especially against the incumbent regime and if the rebels are radicals
F1: I expect McLaren to get third in the Constructors', but Racing Point are just 2 points off right now.
I backed them with a £1 free bet at 26 to be top 3. Think I may've tipped that, but can't remember.
Mr. Max, I'm sorry for your loss.
Trying to find the balance of measures is very difficult (not aided by those who stray either into complacency or panic).
On the other hand, @Philip_Thompson (assuming he is only one person) is typical of what much of the Tory party has become: The Trump-lite Party; The Popular Front of Little England; The Whatever Populist Piece of Shit Cummings Thinks of Next Party. The Tory Party has become a genuine Nasty Party that has been taken over by the dregs of one of the most effective political machines our sort-of-democracy has ever known. It is probably a passing phase, and like Labour, they will eventually elect a leader that has more credibility, and who will gradually distance him/herself from the swiveleyed thickos that pass themselves off as "Tory" activists; those who would otherwise be very comfortable marching around to martial music shouting "Heil Farage".
That's the sort of thinking that leads to tweets like the one you posted.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/boris-johnson-apologises-for-misspeaking-about-new-coronavirus-rules/ar-BB19wQEy?ocid=spartan-ntp-feeds
I am a little disappointed that Gavin Williamson's burning of seditious books in English schools has been more or less ignored. My reading is great works like Robert Tressell's "The Ragged Trousered Philanthopists" will be consigned to the dustbin. English schoolchildren under Williamson's proposals will be able to read Mein Kampf at school but not Das Kapital.
Ironically, this is positively Soviet!
I note also that you utterly ignore the British interest in stopping genocidal war crimes happening in Europe.
But that’s today’s Tories: all for praying in aid WW2 and Britain doing the right thing to claim how only they are patriotic but utter moral cowards when it came to helping people on the ground during our lifetimes by allowing the legitimate government of Bosnia to defend itself and its people from slaughter.
The US debate is an hour later still here and I expect I will miss it. Hopefully Biden will play things nice and safe.
There was a long long queue of lorries waiting to go from Germany to Switzerland this morning. Blink and it could have been 2021 Kent.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8784567/Minister-suffers-car-crash-interview-lockdown-rules.html
The press have definitely turned against him...
Given the state of the Tories in 2019, your voting for them does you no credit in my eyes.
Bet he doesn't talk like Patel and Keegan, despite his unfortunate home county
I'd be surprised if the Greens spent so much on lost deposits next time. Their number of candidates in previous elections (backwards from 2017) was: 457, 538, 310 and 182 in 2005.
Even if the missing 150-200 candidates are all in the weakest areas it still adds up to lots of votes missing from the total.
DelmonteSainsburys, he say yes.gayTory in the villagehttps://sports.ladbrokes.com/event/politics/international/us-elections/presidential-election-debates/230979830/all-markets
https://www.sportingindex.com/spread-betting/politics/american/group_b.0bc262da-6f1a-4013-ad3c-a8b8c303c3af/first-presidential-debate-wednesday-30th-september
Ducks....
I realise of course that we are living under an increasingly right-wing dictatorship, but does the useless Williamson have the power to ban anything in schools?
Lenin's The State and Revolution should be compulsory reading for all children so they grew up understanding that revolution is beautiful.
1. No herd immunity by infection is possible for reasons (see Brazil).
2. The first vaccines will only be partially helpful - they may stop infection of the lung (and therefore death), but not of the upper respiratory tract (so won't stop spread), and may not be effective in the old (those most at risk).
3. The early vaccines may also have severe enough side effects, albeit temporary and not dangerous, that it will restrict how quickly you can vaccinate people (because you can't have all the staff in a hospital suffering with side-effects at the same time).
I don't see what this leaves us with except the WHO's advice from the beginning and all the way through: test, trace, isolate.
The idea we might actually enter a strong growth period post transition and post vaccine seems unthinkable and unfortunate to many
I cannot see any government of any hue, that has been impacted by Covid not suffering with an horrific aftershock.
If you are going to criticise politicians, you really do need to get basic facts right:
“Schools should not under any circumstances use resources produced by organisations that take extreme political stances on matters.
“This is the case even if the material itself is not extreme, as the use of it could imply endorsement or support of the organisation.”
The document adds: “Extreme political stances include, but are not limited to… a publicly stated desire to abolish or overthrow democracy, capitalism, or to end free and fair elections.”
My philosophy is one where I fundamentally believe in individualism and not communitarianism.
As such fitting in a mould as HYUFD tries to do as a "typical Tory" seems to be rather counter-intuitive to my philosophy.
Or perhaps you think it would be OK for schools to use teaching materials produced by Britain First or the Socialist Workers Party?
Revolution apparently is great, notably every revolution installing a dictatorship in modern times seems to be soaked in blood. Revolutions genuinely moving to more democratic systems are a bit uneven, some were messy some largely peaceful. You can perhaps say that the actual aim of the revolution can help predict how much blood is shed.
Who decides? Who pays them to decide? Who oversees them?
And, crucially, was this ever a problem in the first place?
It's bollocks, and dangerous bollocks too, whatever the fine print.
The Tory Party was originally the party of the monarchy, landed gentry and the Anglican church and as you are a republican atheist you can never really be a true Tory
So, a pamphlet from the Socialist Workers Party that explains why Das Kapital is still relevant today is banned. Das Kapital, published by the noted revolutionaries at Penguin books, is not.
1. Brexit - many those in the media who lost their minds over the defeat in the referendum conti8nue to be willing to do anything to grab victory from the jaws of defeat.
2. General politics - after the scale of the GE defeat the opposition have been handed a near invincible tool with which to beat the government. Starmer in the main has held back sensibly but others have not.
3. The libertarian wing of the Tory party have joined others who have convinced themselves that the cure is worse than the disease. They are unwilling to accept the restrictions needed to hold the disease at bay until a vaccine/treatment is available. I personally find most of the restrictions mindblowingly mild - others do not.
4. Johnson is a politician who while clearly a winner on the electoral stage also inspires the same sort of venomous hatred from the media class that they also hold for the 'thick voters' who kicked them in the teeth in 2016 and again last year.
I'm sure other factors are in play and I cannot pretend I'd not prefer someone like Sunak in charge right now. I just wish that the media and some of the public had taken a different approach to getting us through this awful crisis. I've said it often here but believe it more and more with the passing days - we cannot go back to normal for quite a while yet.
Yes every country is unique, just as every individual is unique. How is that contradictory?
So, near on a 100% book and I`ve had a very small bet on Biden at those odds.
Any views?