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New York Times Investigation: Donald Trump paid just $750 in his election year – politicalbetting.co

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited September 28 in General
New York Times Investigation: Donald Trump paid just $750 in his election year – politicalbetting.com

The New York Times reporting a big investigation into Trump's taxes showing, amongst other things, that in his election year the so called billionaire paid just $750https://t.co/O2Y9BHwqON pic.twitter.com/Bl7EoKc2Qc

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • kamskikamski Posts: 1,371
    An important clarification for anyone taking rumours about Swiss toilet flushing laws seriously
    https://www.thelocal.ch/20190909/swiss-daily-dilemmas-can-i-flush-my-toilet-at-night
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 27,844
    2nd!
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 3,413
    An extraordinary story from the New York Times.

    From the behaviour over the Supreme Court nomination it's obvious that Republicans on Capitol Hill believe they have lost the Presidency.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 3,413
    And the Washington Post reports that the battleground is currently in states Trump won in 2016. This was a major indicator of the result in the 2019 UK General Election.

    Look at where Trump is fighting for votes.

    As things stand he is in for a significant defeat.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-biden-election-map/2020/09/27/43052b02-ff67-11ea-b555-4d71a9254f4b_story.html
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 33,190
    The most interesting thing in the Trump tax returns is not the $750.

    It's the $747,622.

    That's a consultancy payment (therefore fully tax deductible) that appears to have gone to Ivanka Trump. Which would be fine, if it wasn't for the fact that she was also employed by the Trump Organisation. And you aren't supposed to give money to employees outside of the payroll process.
  • And the Washington Post reports that the battleground is currently in states Trump won in 2016. This was a major indicator of the result in the 2019 UK General Election.

    Look at where Trump is fighting for votes.

    As things stand he is in for a significant defeat.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-biden-election-map/2020/09/27/43052b02-ff67-11ea-b555-4d71a9254f4b_story.html

    This link doesn't work for me ... is it behind a Washington Post paywall?
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 3,413

    And the Washington Post reports that the battleground is currently in states Trump won in 2016. This was a major indicator of the result in the 2019 UK General Election.

    Look at where Trump is fighting for votes.

    As things stand he is in for a significant defeat.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-biden-election-map/2020/09/27/43052b02-ff67-11ea-b555-4d71a9254f4b_story.html

    This link doesn't work for me ... is it behind a Washington Post paywall?
    Yes but if you click the left hand option 'Free' it takes you into it
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 3,413
    rcs1000 said:

    The most interesting thing in the Trump tax returns is not the $750.

    It's the $747,622.

    That's a consultancy payment (therefore fully tax deductible) that appears to have gone to Ivanka Trump. Which would be fine, if it wasn't for the fact that she was also employed by the Trump Organisation. And you aren't supposed to give money to employees outside of the payroll process.

    Yep. Deliberately running 'losses' to avoid paying taxes.
  • So, basically, everyone who works or has worked for Trump eventually hates him. And they have no fear of leaking because of this.

    You have to wonder when the Apprentice unseen tapes will drop?
  • TimTTimT Posts: 1,369

    rcs1000 said:

    The most interesting thing in the Trump tax returns is not the $750.

    It's the $747,622.

    That's a consultancy payment (therefore fully tax deductible) that appears to have gone to Ivanka Trump. Which would be fine, if it wasn't for the fact that she was also employed by the Trump Organisation. And you aren't supposed to give money to employees outside of the payroll process.

    Yep. Deliberately running 'losses' to avoid paying taxes.
    I'd love to be his auditor. I would find that none of his loss-running businesses were ever intended to be for-profit, and are thus hobby expenses and not tax deductible.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 33,190
    Scott_xP said:
    That's probably true of every divorced man
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 7,887
    rcs1000 said:

    That's probably true of every divorced man

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 29,076
    edited September 28
    Yokes said:

    And the bad news just keeps coming for Trump.

    And there is more to come.

    He hasn’t been caught shagging a young violinist on the side, by any chance?
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 760
    Torygraph reckon 100+ Tory MPs ready to defy government over lack of parliamentary oversight of covid restrictions. One wonders how many of the 100+ have already turned in their letter to Brady and what will be the last straw for the rest.

    Quite amazing how much political capital the PM has burned through in under a year, without actually doing anything yet. If he does stay in office for the Parliament, it’s going to be a rocky spell. Rebelling is a hard habit to break.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 20,033
    Good morning everyone.

    I seem to recall that, at some time in the 2016 campaign, Hilary Clinton said something about her opponent paying no taxes.
    His response was that 'that made him smart'!

    I wonder if secretly many a taxpayer said, and will say again; 'Crafty old whatsit; sort of cunning guy we want at the top'.
    If it was disclosed that our PM was had managed to avoid paying anything to HMRC, would that do him good or harm?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 29,076
    Reckon they must have been sitting on the returns for a while, waiting for the best moment?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 29,076

    Good morning everyone.

    I seem to recall that, at some time in the 2016 campaign, Hilary Clinton said something about her opponent paying no taxes.
    His response was that 'that made him smart'!

    I wonder if secretly many a taxpayer said, and will say again; 'Crafty old whatsit; sort of cunning guy we want at the top'.
    If it was disclosed that our PM was had managed to avoid paying anything to HMRC, would that do him good or harm?

    In the UK, harm.

    Paying your family and counting it as tax deductible is surely dodgy even in the US?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 25,915
    .
    IanB2 said:

    Good morning everyone.

    I seem to recall that, at some time in the 2016 campaign, Hilary Clinton said something about her opponent paying no taxes.
    His response was that 'that made him smart'!

    I wonder if secretly many a taxpayer said, and will say again; 'Crafty old whatsit; sort of cunning guy we want at the top'.
    If it was disclosed that our PM was had managed to avoid paying anything to HMRC, would that do him good or harm?

    In the UK, harm.

    Paying your family and counting it as tax deductible is surely dodgy even in the US?
    Grifters gotta grift.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 20,033
    Didn't Trump blame Brad Parscale for the poor showing at the Tulsa rally. And sack him?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 29,076
    "I'm telling you there are people out there, and I know, I come from blue collar, hard-working, these folks are scraping to make a living and they're going to wake up and find this incredible mogul paid $750," said former Ohio Republican Gov. John Kasich, who is now a CNN political commentator.

    "I don't care what his excuses are. It doesn't pass the smell test. It's not going to disrupt those people who were for him totally. It's those people on the fence," Kasich said.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 25,915
    Of course it might well be that 40-50% seroprevalence just isn’t enough to provide for herd immunity in this particular environment.
  • Didn't Trump blame Brad Parscale for the poor showing at the Tulsa rally. And sack him?

    A SWAT team attending a property after reports that it contained an armed man with access to multiple firearms? Mr Pascale is lucky that they provided such a sensitive response.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 25,915
    Extraordinarily long, but very interesting thread on vaccines:
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 18,846

    Good morning everyone.

    I seem to recall that, at some time in the 2016 campaign, Hilary Clinton said something about her opponent paying no taxes.
    His response was that 'that made him smart'!

    I wonder if secretly many a taxpayer said, and will say again; 'Crafty old whatsit; sort of cunning guy we want at the top'.
    If it was disclosed that our PM was had managed to avoid paying anything to HMRC, would that do him good or harm?

    Yes, a bit like calling military dead "suckers" Trump appeals to that individualistic selfish streak. Dodging tax and the draft is what many secretly would do if they could.

    We know he is a con artist, so there is an element of lack of surprise to it all.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 25,915
    It ought also to be pointed out that excessive debt is regarded as a potential security risk, and is a strong reason for withholding security clearances.

    Time for @TSE to award Trump his “disgraced national security risk” moniker.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 20,033
    Foxy said:

    Good morning everyone.

    I seem to recall that, at some time in the 2016 campaign, Hilary Clinton said something about her opponent paying no taxes.
    His response was that 'that made him smart'!

    I wonder if secretly many a taxpayer said, and will say again; 'Crafty old whatsit; sort of cunning guy we want at the top'.
    If it was disclosed that our PM was had managed to avoid paying anything to HMRC, would that do him good or harm?

    Yes, a bit like calling military dead "suckers" Trump appeals to that individualistic selfish streak. Dodging tax and the draft is what many secretly would do if they could.

    We know he is a con artist, so there is an element of lack of surprise to it all.
    Fooling some of the people some of the time!

    Followed by 'Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me!'

    And I suspect you and Mr B2 are right; generally speaking it won't go down well. He's called it 'fake news' but it's easy enough to prove that it is. All he has to do is release the correct figures as other Presidents have done.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 29,076
    edited September 28
    Foxy said:

    Good morning everyone.

    I seem to recall that, at some time in the 2016 campaign, Hilary Clinton said something about her opponent paying no taxes.
    His response was that 'that made him smart'!

    I wonder if secretly many a taxpayer said, and will say again; 'Crafty old whatsit; sort of cunning guy we want at the top'.
    If it was disclosed that our PM was had managed to avoid paying anything to HMRC, would that do him good or harm?

    Yes, a bit like calling military dead "suckers" Trump appeals to that individualistic selfish streak. Dodging tax and the draft is what many secretly would do if they could.

    We know he is a con artist, so there is an element of lack of surprise to it all.
    Yes, but even for those not moved to condemn him for immorality, there will be those not happy due to envy, or irritation at someone else getting away with what they have not.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 17,396
    rcs1000 said:

    The most interesting thing in the Trump tax returns is not the $750.

    It's the $747,622.

    That's a consultancy payment (therefore fully tax deductible) that appears to have gone to Ivanka Trump. Which would be fine, if it wasn't for the fact that she was also employed by the Trump Organisation. And you aren't supposed to give money to employees outside of the payroll process.

    Ultimately, unless the taxes reveal clear criminality, this story will have no effect.

    Some of Trump's taxes were revealed prior to the 2016 election and all that showed was that he was smart to avoid paying taxes.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,096
    They won’t send this numpty out on the news circuit again.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 18,846
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Good morning everyone.

    I seem to recall that, at some time in the 2016 campaign, Hilary Clinton said something about her opponent paying no taxes.
    His response was that 'that made him smart'!

    I wonder if secretly many a taxpayer said, and will say again; 'Crafty old whatsit; sort of cunning guy we want at the top'.
    If it was disclosed that our PM was had managed to avoid paying anything to HMRC, would that do him good or harm?

    Yes, a bit like calling military dead "suckers" Trump appeals to that individualistic selfish streak. Dodging tax and the draft is what many secretly would do if they could.

    We know he is a con artist, so there is an element of lack of surprise to it all.
    Yes, but even for those not moved to condemn him for immorality, there will be those not happy due to envy, or irritation at someone else getting away with what they have not.
    Oh, I agree it can only do harm, and Trump is running out of time to do something game changing. 5 weeks to go.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 29,076
    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Good morning everyone.

    I seem to recall that, at some time in the 2016 campaign, Hilary Clinton said something about her opponent paying no taxes.
    His response was that 'that made him smart'!

    I wonder if secretly many a taxpayer said, and will say again; 'Crafty old whatsit; sort of cunning guy we want at the top'.
    If it was disclosed that our PM was had managed to avoid paying anything to HMRC, would that do him good or harm?

    Yes, a bit like calling military dead "suckers" Trump appeals to that individualistic selfish streak. Dodging tax and the draft is what many secretly would do if they could.

    We know he is a con artist, so there is an element of lack of surprise to it all.
    Yes, but even for those not moved to condemn him for immorality, there will be those not happy due to envy, or irritation at someone else getting away with what they have not.
    Oh, I agree it can only do harm, and Trump is running out of time to do something game changing. 5 weeks to go.
    Looks to me as if he’ll just keep digging.

    The sole risk, I guess, is new damaging revelations about Biden. Which, if they have them, they will be sitting on for the time being.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 29,076
    Is it really only a few weeks since we were all being encouraged out to enjoy cut price meals, and told that we should go back to the office or possibly face the sack?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 3,891
    Foxy said:

    Good morning everyone.

    I seem to recall that, at some time in the 2016 campaign, Hilary Clinton said something about her opponent paying no taxes.
    His response was that 'that made him smart'!

    I wonder if secretly many a taxpayer said, and will say again; 'Crafty old whatsit; sort of cunning guy we want at the top'.
    If it was disclosed that our PM was had managed to avoid paying anything to HMRC, would that do him good or harm?

    Yes, a bit like calling military dead "suckers" Trump appeals to that individualistic selfish streak. Dodging tax and the draft is what many secretly would do if they could.

    We know he is a con artist, so there is an element of lack of surprise to it all.
    Agreed, if it looks like he doesn't pay taxes in the same way amazon doesn't pay taxes. But this looks more as if he doesn't pay taxes because he doesn't make money because he's a loser (in his own terms) which is much more damaging.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 29,076
    Anyhow, must be off. Switzerland won’t drive across itself; certainly not without getting out of the car.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 6,431
    Case study 19,481 in
    "How taxes are optional for the super wealthy"
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,096
    edited September 28
    Our restrictions

    📣The #Government of the Valencian Community has announced that the PREVENTION MEASURES against # Covid-19 adopted on August 17 will be EXTENDED again for another 21 days.
    🍸 Suspension of the activity and closure of the NIGHTCLUBS, DANCE ROOMS, DRINKS BARS and KARAOKES.
    🍽 BARS, RESTAURANTS and HOSPITALITY stores must close at 01.00 hours, not being able to accept new clients after 00:00 hours.
    1.5 meters of interpersonal distance should be kept between clients seated at tables or groups of tables.
    Groups of 10 clients maximum.
    🚭NOT SMOKING or VAPING on public roads, terraces, beaches or other outdoor spaces, when the interpersonal distance of 2 meters cannot be respected.
    🥃It is reminded that collective or group consumption of drinks on the street or in public spaces (# BOTELLÓN) is TOTALLY PROHIBITED outside of hospitality or similar establishments.

    Coupled with universal mask wearing outdoors and in public spaces and the quarantine rules if positive or in contact until tested. Stricter in at risk zones
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 3,694
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Good morning everyone.

    I seem to recall that, at some time in the 2016 campaign, Hilary Clinton said something about her opponent paying no taxes.
    His response was that 'that made him smart'!

    I wonder if secretly many a taxpayer said, and will say again; 'Crafty old whatsit; sort of cunning guy we want at the top'.
    If it was disclosed that our PM was had managed to avoid paying anything to HMRC, would that do him good or harm?

    Yes, a bit like calling military dead "suckers" Trump appeals to that individualistic selfish streak. Dodging tax and the draft is what many secretly would do if they could.

    We know he is a con artist, so there is an element of lack of surprise to it all.
    Yes, but even for those not moved to condemn him for immorality, there will be those not happy due to envy, or irritation at someone else getting away with what they have not.
    Oh, I agree it can only do harm, and Trump is running out of time to do something game changing. 5 weeks to go.
    Looks to me as if he’ll just keep digging.

    The sole risk, I guess, is new damaging revelations about Biden. Which, if they have them, they will be sitting on for the time being.
    The frustration from Fox News when the Hunter Biden investigation turned out to be a damp squib was a joy to behold.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 17,396
    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The most interesting thing in the Trump tax returns is not the $750.

    It's the $747,622.

    That's a consultancy payment (therefore fully tax deductible) that appears to have gone to Ivanka Trump. Which would be fine, if it wasn't for the fact that she was also employed by the Trump Organisation. And you aren't supposed to give money to employees outside of the payroll process.

    Ultimately, unless the taxes reveal clear criminality, this story will have no effect.

    Some of Trump's taxes were revealed prior to the 2016 election and all that showed was that he was smart to avoid paying taxes.
    Tax records do not have the specificity to evaluate the legitimacy of every business expense Mr. Trump claims to reduce his taxable income — for instance, without any explanation in his returns, the general and administrative expenses at his Bedminster golf club in New Jersey increased fivefold from 2016 to 2017.

    Ah....
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 17,396

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Good morning everyone.

    I seem to recall that, at some time in the 2016 campaign, Hilary Clinton said something about her opponent paying no taxes.
    His response was that 'that made him smart'!

    I wonder if secretly many a taxpayer said, and will say again; 'Crafty old whatsit; sort of cunning guy we want at the top'.
    If it was disclosed that our PM was had managed to avoid paying anything to HMRC, would that do him good or harm?

    Yes, a bit like calling military dead "suckers" Trump appeals to that individualistic selfish streak. Dodging tax and the draft is what many secretly would do if they could.

    We know he is a con artist, so there is an element of lack of surprise to it all.
    Yes, but even for those not moved to condemn him for immorality, there will be those not happy due to envy, or irritation at someone else getting away with what they have not.
    Oh, I agree it can only do harm, and Trump is running out of time to do something game changing. 5 weeks to go.
    Looks to me as if he’ll just keep digging.

    The sole risk, I guess, is new damaging revelations about Biden. Which, if they have them, they will be sitting on for the time being.
    The frustration from Fox News when the Hunter Biden investigation turned out to be a damp squib was a joy to behold.
    Mi was quite stunned when the general US media did not make a thing out of it.

    Fucked up my betting position but pleasantly suprised none the less.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 33,140
    rcs1000 said:

    The most interesting thing in the Trump tax returns is not the $750.

    It's the $747,622.

    That's a consultancy payment (therefore fully tax deductible) that appears to have gone to Ivanka Trump. Which would be fine, if it wasn't for the fact that she was also employed by the Trump Organisation. And you aren't supposed to give money to employees outside of the payroll process.

    So basically he paid all of his taxable profit to his daughter. I wonder what she did with it? Presumably she had another set of losses/expenses to set against it so that she didn't pay tax on it either.

    The consistent pattern of not paying any tax in 10 out of 15 years as his businesses generated more losses than profits is probably more damaging. Trump might do to remember that "only little people pay taxes" Leona Helmsley was eventually convicted of Federal tax evasion.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 3,155
    IanB2 said:

    Is it really only a few weeks since we were all being encouraged out to enjoy cut price meals, and told that we should go back to the office or possibly face the sack?
    I wonder if this Government would be acting differently on COVID and willingness to propose economic Armageddon producing measures, if they hadn’t effectively baked in assumptions of economic devastation from a no deal Brexit already?

    Having already made their choice on pandering to their newly earned core Brexit vote over expected extremely harsh economic consequences, they’re seeing no advantages in looking to protect what’s left against coronavirus. Especially when the polls suggest that so much of the rest of their core vote (the elderly) is all for “lock us all up”.
  • Morning all! A big day, my first working entirely on my new client (thanks to the Furlough scheme) as my old job and my new job fully overlap over the next 5 weeks. Working 2 jobs and trying to buy a house, commercial premises and sell a house? Hurrah for Sertaline and alcohol (yes, I know...)

    So, the Donald is a liar, or an epic tax dodger, or both. Who knew? Perhaps this may wipe the scales from the eyes of blue collar shitkickers who have been suckered in by this massive knob.

    As for the proposed emergency lockdown, the big takeaway is that to ban socialising ("mingling") you have to close the pubs. Because as I have been saying for ages the notion that you can go down t'pub and not meet with more than the <5 individuals you came in with is laughable bollocks. Until they take this seriously its just going to keep surging.

    Final point. In the first wave we had cruise ship prisons. In this second wave we had university halls of residence prisons. This was entirely foreseeable - yes its a massive potentially terminal disruption for the universities as it is for hospitality, culture, freelancers etc etc. But reopening HE as they have was not going to work. Telling students not to drink and screw and fall over was not going to work. I kept my boy away for a year - its not ideal but its the least worst option. Am amazed that others didn't do the same. Because had he gone to Manchester Met as was his back-up, and had they imprisoned him in halls I would have driven over to get him. Rules? Whats for Cummings must be good for the rest of us.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 3,155
    I wonder if Trump sacked anyone for arithmetical errors that took the tax paid above zero?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 37,638
    Foxy said:

    Good morning everyone.

    I seem to recall that, at some time in the 2016 campaign, Hilary Clinton said something about her opponent paying no taxes.
    His response was that 'that made him smart'!

    I wonder if secretly many a taxpayer said, and will say again; 'Crafty old whatsit; sort of cunning guy we want at the top'.
    If it was disclosed that our PM was had managed to avoid paying anything to HMRC, would that do him good or harm?

    Yes, a bit like calling military dead "suckers" Trump appeals to that individualistic selfish streak. Dodging tax and the draft is what many secretly would do if they could.

    We know he is a con artist, so there is an element of lack of surprise to it all.
    I don't think this will do him any harm with his base.

    It might help Biden firm up his turnout a bit more.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 27,844

    Morning all! A big day, my first working entirely on my new client (thanks to the Furlough scheme) as my old job and my new job fully overlap over the next 5 weeks. Working 2 jobs and trying to buy a house, commercial premises and sell a house? Hurrah for Sertaline and alcohol (yes, I know...)

    Good luck with the new job today! Mine starts on Thursday.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 37,638
    IanB2 said:

    Is it really only a few weeks since we were all being encouraged out to enjoy cut price meals, and told that we should go back to the office or possibly face the sack?
    To be fair the Government didn't know we would face a second wave and wanted to reboot the economy.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 7,191

    Morning all! A big day, my first working entirely on my new client (thanks to the Furlough scheme) as my old job and my new job fully overlap over the next 5 weeks. Working 2 jobs and trying to buy a house, commercial premises and sell a house? Hurrah for Sertaline and alcohol (yes, I know...)

    So, the Donald is a liar, or an epic tax dodger, or both. Who knew? Perhaps this may wipe the scales from the eyes of blue collar shitkickers who have been suckered in by this massive knob.

    As for the proposed emergency lockdown, the big takeaway is that to ban socialising ("mingling") you have to close the pubs. Because as I have been saying for ages the notion that you can go down t'pub and not meet with more than the <5 individuals you came in with is laughable bollocks. Until they take this seriously its just going to keep surging.

    Final point. In the first wave we had cruise ship prisons. In this second wave we had university halls of residence prisons. This was entirely foreseeable - yes its a massive potentially terminal disruption for the universities as it is for hospitality, culture, freelancers etc etc. But reopening HE as they have was not going to work. Telling students not to drink and screw and fall over was not going to work. I kept my boy away for a year - its not ideal but its the least worst option. Am amazed that others didn't do the same. Because had he gone to Manchester Met as was his back-up, and had they imprisoned him in halls I would have driven over to get him. Rules? Whats for Cummings must be good for the rest of us.</p>

    My two boys went back on the promise of mixed e and direct teaching and as third years didn't want to lose momentum.

    The alternative was driving a van for an Amazon contractor at £87 a day less expenses. Two weeks on that looks like the better deal.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,096

    IanB2 said:

    Is it really only a few weeks since we were all being encouraged out to enjoy cut price meals, and told that we should go back to the office or possibly face the sack?
    To be fair the Government didn't know we would face a second wave and wanted to reboot the economy.
    Why would they not expect a second wave? It was already starting in Other countries, what made the UK different?
  • nichomar said:

    IanB2 said:

    Is it really only a few weeks since we were all being encouraged out to enjoy cut price meals, and told that we should go back to the office or possibly face the sack?
    To be fair the Government didn't know we would face a second wave and wanted to reboot the economy.
    Why would they not expect a second wave? It was already starting in Other countries, what made the UK different?
    Rule Britannia and all that. Having spent several years spinning the idea that we tell foreign chappies who we are and what we want and they just acquiesce why wouldn't the pox just do the same?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 37,638
    nichomar said:

    IanB2 said:

    Is it really only a few weeks since we were all being encouraged out to enjoy cut price meals, and told that we should go back to the office or possibly face the sack?
    To be fair the Government didn't know we would face a second wave and wanted to reboot the economy.
    Why would they not expect a second wave? It was already starting in Other countries, what made the UK different?
    It wasn't clear it was in July/ early August - it was just feared rather than known.

    You can make the case the Government should have been much more conservative in lifting the lockdown but then I suspect it would have been criticized for not helping the economy.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 18,846

    Meanwhile in the one rule for them, another for us file:

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 18,846

    Morning all! A big day, my first working entirely on my new client (thanks to the Furlough scheme) as my old job and my new job fully overlap over the next 5 weeks. Working 2 jobs and trying to buy a house, commercial premises and sell a house? Hurrah for Sertaline and alcohol (yes, I know...)

    So, the Donald is a liar, or an epic tax dodger, or both. Who knew? Perhaps this may wipe the scales from the eyes of blue collar shitkickers who have been suckered in by this massive knob.

    As for the proposed emergency lockdown, the big takeaway is that to ban socialising ("mingling") you have to close the pubs. Because as I have been saying for ages the notion that you can go down t'pub and not meet with more than the <5 individuals you came in with is laughable bollocks. Until they take this seriously its just going to keep surging.

    Final point. In the first wave we had cruise ship prisons. In this second wave we had university halls of residence prisons. This was entirely foreseeable - yes its a massive potentially terminal disruption for the universities as it is for hospitality, culture, freelancers etc etc. But reopening HE as they have was not going to work. Telling students not to drink and screw and fall over was not going to work. I kept my boy away for a year - its not ideal but its the least worst option. Am amazed that others didn't do the same. Because had he gone to Manchester Met as was his back-up, and had they imprisoned him in halls I would have driven over to get him. Rules? Whats for Cummings must be good for the rest of us.</p>

    My two boys went back on the promise of mixed e and direct teaching and as third years didn't want to lose momentum.

    The alternative was driving a van for an Amazon contractor at £87 a day less expenses. Two weeks on that looks like the better deal.
    Fox jr2 decided to go, knowing that a lot of teaching would be online. His gap year started off acting in London, and finished with 6 months playing X box on the sofa in Leicester. Another year of that would drive us both mad.

    He opted against Halls, which was a good decision
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 11,624
    Like Al Capone this gangster may be banged up for tax evasion rather than the other crimes.

    Which might be a bigger worry for Trump than losing the election.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 3,155
    edited September 28
    The Govt will probably say that they have no power to control what happens in Parliament (and are probably right). And will use that as an argument why the mooted “parliamentary oversight” over Covid regulations should be rejected.

    Dig deeper and you’ll probably find they’re exempt from “rule of six”, mingling etcetc
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 62,066

    nichomar said:

    IanB2 said:

    Is it really only a few weeks since we were all being encouraged out to enjoy cut price meals, and told that we should go back to the office or possibly face the sack?
    To be fair the Government didn't know we would face a second wave and wanted to reboot the economy.
    Why would they not expect a second wave? It was already starting in Other countries, what made the UK different?
    It wasn't clear it was in July/ early August - it was just feared rather than known.

    You can make the case the Government should have been much more conservative in lifting the lockdown but then I suspect it would have been criticized for not helping the economy.
    Eat out to help out was probably ok in terms of viral transmission (v little). More the non food pubs that are the issue. Also other coronaviruses are seasonal so this one probably will be more naturally transmisible over winter too
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 36,727
    IanB2 said:

    Is it really only a few weeks since we were all being encouraged out to enjoy cut price meals, and told that we should go back to the office or possibly face the sack?
    Yep.

    But Whitty and Vallance hadn't drawn them a graph at that point.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    That's probably true of every divorced man
    Just a bit sexist!

    My missus earned more than her ex and was the main breadwinner - he did very well out of their divorce. And she's still paying child support for their son, who decided he'd rather sit around at his dad's playing on his Xbox than live with his mum and be made to do homework.
  • eekeek Posts: 9,462
    FF43 said:

    Like Al Capone this gangster may be banged up for tax evasion rather than the other crimes.

    Which might be a bigger worry for Trump than losing the election.

    I suspect that if Trump loses the election he will be spending a lot of time in countries which don't have extradition treaties regarding tax offences.

    Sorry Scotland...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 36,727
    Big week for the fairly new Speaker.

    Does he allow the Brady amendment and allow parliament to assert its rights over the Executive.

    I know what Bercow would do...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 36,380
    edited September 28
    Nigelb said:
    I understand 10 million have downloaded including myself and it does look like the glitch has been resolved

    However, I am not holding my breath for HMG to receive anything other than daily attacks over testing when in reality we are doing far more than anywhere in Europe and the app is encouraging

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 25,915
    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    Like Al Capone this gangster may be banged up for tax evasion rather than the other crimes.

    Which might be a bigger worry for Trump than losing the election.

    I suspect that if Trump loses the election he will be spending a lot of time in countries which don't have extradition treaties regarding tax offences.

    Sorry Scotland...
    Perhaps with his friends in Turkey ?
    Where he’s actually paid some tax.
  • nichomar said:

    IanB2 said:

    Is it really only a few weeks since we were all being encouraged out to enjoy cut price meals, and told that we should go back to the office or possibly face the sack?
    To be fair the Government didn't know we would face a second wave and wanted to reboot the economy.
    Why would they not expect a second wave? It was already starting in Other countries, what made the UK different?
    The "pubs or schools but not both" arguement was being made at the beginning of August;
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53621613

    Ignoring that was plain wishful thinking.
  • Big week for the fairly new Speaker.

    Does he allow the Brady amendment and allow parliament to assert its rights over the Executive.

    I know what Bercow would do...

    I have mixed feelings on this

    I agree with the proposition that HMG should have more scrutiny but am wary that in such a fast and rapidly moving environment they must have the ability to act swiftly where needed
  • eekeek Posts: 9,462
    Nor would or will a full on national lockdown - because of Barnard Castle..
  • kamskikamski Posts: 1,371

    Foxy said:

    Good morning everyone.

    I seem to recall that, at some time in the 2016 campaign, Hilary Clinton said something about her opponent paying no taxes.
    His response was that 'that made him smart'!

    I wonder if secretly many a taxpayer said, and will say again; 'Crafty old whatsit; sort of cunning guy we want at the top'.
    If it was disclosed that our PM was had managed to avoid paying anything to HMRC, would that do him good or harm?

    Yes, a bit like calling military dead "suckers" Trump appeals to that individualistic selfish streak. Dodging tax and the draft is what many secretly would do if they could.

    We know he is a con artist, so there is an element of lack of surprise to it all.
    I don't think this will do him any harm with his base.

    It might help Biden firm up his turnout a bit more.
    I think it's got to be somewhat positive for Biden. Sure, it's no surprise, and there will be those who'll just think "yeah, I hate the taxman too" (like Berlusconi supporters in Italy).
    BUT it will remind waverers again of why he shouldn't be president. The kind of people who didn't turn out last time because they couldn't stand Clinton either.
    And, the stories about him losing loads of money and being hundreds of millions in debt, dent his claims to be a great business person.
  • Probably because they are being largely ignored. People have stopped taking them seriously, especially after the Cummings incident which fundamentally destroyed the notion that we are all in this together.
  • eek said:

    Nor would or will a full on national lockdown - because of Barnard Castle..
    It's an interesting (in a bad way) question. In the scenario (which I hope we don't reach) that a major lockdown becomes the only choice (because it's that or many many dead people), how many governmental heads would have to roll?
  • eek said:

    Nor would or will a full on national lockdown - because of Barnard Castle..
    I think a full-on national lockdown could work, but only with very heavy policing. Much of the readiness of people to voluntarily cooperate has now evaporated.
  • eek said:

    Nor would or will a full on national lockdown - because of Barnard Castle..
    I have to say that on an issue as important as this two wrongs do not make a right and we have to be careful not to encourage or excuse further bad behaviour at the detriment of our health and economic well-being

    The way Boris behaved with Cummings, Williamson, and IMB were wholly unacceptable and I hope his tenure in no 10 terminates in early 21after brexit conclusion on the 31st December
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 36,727

    Big week for the fairly new Speaker.

    Does he allow the Brady amendment and allow parliament to assert its rights over the Executive.

    I know what Bercow would do...

    I have mixed feelings on this

    I agree with the proposition that HMG should have more scrutiny but am wary that in such a fast and rapidly moving environment they must have the ability to act swiftly where needed
    I don't think anything Brady is proposing changes that ability to be honest.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 18,691
    Foxy said:


    Meanwhile in the one rule for them, another for us file:

    🤬
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 2,072
    edited September 28

    eek said:

    Nor would or will a full on national lockdown - because of Barnard Castle..
    I have to say that on an issue as important as this two wrongs do not make a right and we have to be careful not to encourage or excuse further bad behaviour at the detriment of our health and economic well-being

    The way Boris behaved with Cummings, Williamson, and IMB were wholly unacceptable and I hope his tenure in no 10 terminates in early 21after brexit conclusion on the 31st December
    The Cummings incident doesn't excuse further bad behaviour; it explains bad behaviour. People stop cooperating when they feel they are being taken for mugs.

    P.S. LOL at "brexit conclusion on the 31st December"!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 78,329
    edited September 28
    Most independent voters tend to be higher earning and fiscal conservatives not keen on paying much tax so I doubt it will hurt Trump with them, it might hurt him a bit with his white working class base but they will be voting for him for cultural rather than economic reasons mainly anyway other than putting tariffs on Chinese imports.

    The liberal left will obviously make hay with it but they hate Trump anyway.

    Given the last 2 incumbent presidents, Bush and Obama both lost their first debates to Kerry and Romney respectively a Biden win tomorrow need not be fatal to Trump but as he is further behind than they were at this stage he will want a reasonable performance
  • Foxy said:


    Meanwhile in the one rule for them, another for us file:

    My idea to bulldoze the place into the Thames and build a new parliament just outside Loughborough gets more and more attractive!
  • Foxy said:


    Meanwhile in the one rule for them, another for us file:

    Ha ha, of course they are. Why is anyone even surprised by this? The first rule of the British elite is that the rules don't apply to them.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 18,846

    eek said:

    Nor would or will a full on national lockdown - because of Barnard Castle..
    I think a full-on national lockdown could work, but only with very heavy policing. Much of the readiness of people to voluntarily cooperate has now evaporated.
    I don't think a full lockdown is doable again. There is not the consent or stomach for it. We have to make do with lesser measures, and cope with the consequences.

    Slowing the doubling rate, better testing than at Easter, and improving PPE and clinical outcomes are going to have to be enough.

    Assess yourself how much risk you can tolerate.
  • eek said:

    Nor would or will a full on national lockdown - because of Barnard Castle..
    I have to say that on an issue as important as this two wrongs do not make a right and we have to be careful not to encourage or excuse further bad behaviour at the detriment of our health and economic well-being

    The way Boris behaved with Cummings, Williamson, and IMB were wholly unacceptable and I hope his tenure in no 10 terminates in early 21after brexit conclusion on the 31st December
    The Cummings incident doesn't excuse further bad behaviour; it explains bad behaviour. People stop cooperating when they feel they are being taken for mugs.

    P.S. LOL at "brexit conclusion on the 31st December"!
    It will be deal or no deal on the 31st December
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 18,846

    Foxy said:


    Meanwhile in the one rule for them, another for us file:

    My idea to bulldoze the place into the Thames and build a new parliament just outside Loughborough gets more and more attractive!
    You want to have a late night bar handy?

  • Foxy said:


    Meanwhile in the one rule for them, another for us file:

    Ha ha, of course they are. Why is anyone even surprised by this? The first rule of the British elite is that the rules don't apply to them.
    This is manifestly a huge own goal by the Parliament Authorities led by the Speaker

    I am surprised he has allowed this
  • Foxy said:

    eek said:

    Nor would or will a full on national lockdown - because of Barnard Castle..
    I think a full-on national lockdown could work, but only with very heavy policing. Much of the readiness of people to voluntarily cooperate has now evaporated.
    I don't think a full lockdown is doable again. There is not the consent or stomach for it. We have to make do with lesser measures, and cope with the consequences.

    Slowing the doubling rate, better testing than at Easter, and improving PPE and clinical outcomes are going to have to be enough.

    Assess yourself how much risk you can tolerate.
    But as you well know, the risks of bad behaviour are largely not to ourselves, but to other people. That's why the social cohesion aspect was so important. It's not about the individual's tolerance of risk; it's about the readiness of people to inconvenience themselves for the sake of others.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 8,490
    edited September 28
    Morning Folks! Always nice to wake to a nice story about the Great Orange Berk. Now then, will it damage him?

    Well, it certainly won't do him any good. Any harm depends on how you interpret it. Most of his base will simply disregard it in the same way they disregard all manner of shit about the GOB. Not all of them are suckers nevertheless and there will be some for whom this is too much. Then there are independents. It won't be a good look to them. For the rest it just confirms what they thought anyway and motivates them to mail those ballot papers by return of post.

    What's in the story though? If it is tax fraud, he'll be investigated and done, but after the election. If he wins, it may be delayed four years, but this is looking vanishingly unlikely now. But maybe the returns reflect nothing more than an empire built on debt. Maybe it's all smoke and mirrors. Personally I suspect it's more the latter than the former. Either way his failure to publish the returns adds fuel to whichever fire his enemies want him burned on.

    The betting markets have moved against him, but not hugely and some of this may be down to the more prosaic evidence of the weekend polls. I expect further movement today, and then it's the debate. Can he pull something out of the fire there? I doubt it myself. If nothing else, this latest revelation will send Biden in brimming with confidence.

    Get plenty of popcorn in.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 3,891

    eek said:

    Nor would or will a full on national lockdown - because of Barnard Castle..
    I have to say that on an issue as important as this two wrongs do not make a right and we have to be careful not to encourage or excuse further bad behaviour at the detriment of our health and economic well-being

    The way Boris behaved with Cummings, Williamson, and IMB were wholly unacceptable and I hope his tenure in no 10 terminates in early 21after brexit conclusion on the 31st December
    The Cummings incident doesn't excuse further bad behaviour; it explains bad behaviour. People stop cooperating when they feel they are being taken for mugs.

    P.S. LOL at "brexit conclusion on the 31st December"!
    It will be deal or no deal on the 31st December
    It will be 20 mile lorry tailbacks, however you slice it. It's the visuals that destroy incompetent governments: traffic jams, empty shelves, mass graves.
This discussion has been closed.