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Johnson’s Commons response on the UK’s COVID infection rate is really quite extraordinary – politica

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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,129

    'I just wonder what those CON MPs who gained seats at the last election think.'

    That they won their seats because of him and without him we'd be in for more years of Hung Parliament hell?

    People who actually like this country and its character are unlikely to have much issue with Boris' answer.

    Plenty of Conservatives think Boris is inept. This is not a case of “those who dislike this country and its character”.

    Quite frankly your entire comment is just the usual pointless bait-seeking drivel from you.
    Our Genial Host chose to highlight the Ipsos-MORI poll in which 40% say they are satisfied with Boris.

    Whether by coincidence or not 40% is also the Tory vote share in the latest Ipsos-MORI poll.

    So if your hypothesis is right that there are plenty of Conservatives who dislike Boris there must be plenty of non-Conservatives who do like him to balance that out.
    What’s your point?
    Most dislike of Boris is no more than party partisan politics. He's got 40% of the country behind him right now which is a great share for a PM in approval ratings historically.
    So? What has that got to do with my comment?

    @BluestBlue posted some dog whistle culture war nonsense and I called him out on it. Thats it.
    BluestBlue was right, I don't think people in this country who like this country and like our freedom loving nature are going to object to Boris saying it. People who like to bash the country and think we're no different to anywhere else will object. That's not culture war, that's reality.

    As for what its got to do with your comment, you claimed plenty of Tories think Boris is inept. The evidence from the polling is to the contrary, unless an equally balanced amount of non-Tories like him.
    There’s plenty of Con leaners on here that are currently unhappy with the Government.

    The rest of your comment is just repeating the same dog whistle culture war tosh.

    “Those who think Boris is clueless hate this country and what it stands for” give me strength.
    Who said that "those who think Boris is clueless hate this country and what it stands for"? I think you may need to improve your reading comprehension as that to the best of my knowledge was never said.
    Yes it is. That’s literally all @BluestBlue ever says.
    You seem not to know what the word 'literally' means, which is really quite sad.
    There is a perfectly viable modern use of "literally" to mean "when you really come down to it".

    Example - you're born, you live, you die, and that is literally all there is.

    I think that was the sense employed here.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,372
    Anyone fact checking Musk’s battery day claims ?
    Impressive plans.
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    nico679nico679 Posts: 4,733
    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    Apparently Cindy McCain will be formally endorsing Joe Biden tomorrow and will be on the three morning shows on CBS, NBC and ABC . It’s no secret that Biden and the McCains have been very good friends for many years but this is quite a big deal . John McCain was hugely popular in Arizona and her endorsement should help with both the President and down ballot races in the Senate and House . Mark Kelly the ex astronaut is leading the vile Martha Mcsally and should hopefully rid the state of the Trump arse licker.

    Though the McCains hated Trump in 2016 too but he still won Arizona and the EC
    And then lost one of their senate seats in 2018 to the Dem Kyrsten Sinema and the state is a toss up now although Biden has a small lead at the moment .
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,458

    Well at least we can all waste away the hours lockdown playing on our new xbox series x, ps5 or pc with gtx 3080...oh wait all the pre-orders have all sold out.

    I've still got a number of jigsaws I didn't get round to doing the first time round.
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    nico679nico679 Posts: 4,733
    Trumps response to the 200,000 covid deaths . “ It’s a shame”. And he’s now pretending that without his actions 2 million would have died .
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    There’s not just Christmas to worry about, but the new Brexit era. How will we celebrate our Brexit freedoms, like having to queue for products in short supply or delays at border crossings, if we’re all stuck indoors?
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    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/as-we-head-once-more-unto-the-breach-the-pm-must-urgently-step-up-a4553181.html

    "Throughout this crisis the public have understood that the situation is unprecedented and terrible trade-offs have to be made. They have been far more sympathetic to the Government’s dilemmas than its know-all critics in the media. But that sympathy is starting to wear thin, for two reasons. First, there is policy failure. Back in the spring, the two central government initiatives worked: the NHS was protected with the lockdown and jobs were saved with the furlough. But, in the absence of a vaccine, this only bought time to build the third initiative: a comprehensive testing regime.

    Four ex-prime ministers wrote privately before the summer to the current holder urging him to make this the supreme national effort. The health department has tried hard to make it so — and the logistics of offering close to a quarter of a million tests a day should not be underestimated. But we live in a country of 65 million people, whose lives can’t function properly if half of them have to self-isolate for two weeks. Has there been any sense in recent weeks that the Prime Minister is personally driving the testing effort? Where is the message that everything else in Whitehall has been subordinated to this great challenge? Why is the Cabinet Office devoting a third of its time to planning for lorry parks in Kent and emergency food supplies for a no-deal Brexit at new year that only a suicidal premier would now visit on the country?
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    Re: US Supreme Court, note that really landmark decisions tend to polarize, galvanize and mobilize BOTH sides of high controversial questions such as slavery (Dred Scott 1957), segregation (Brown v Board of Education 1954) and abortion (Roe v Wade 1973).

    In each of the above, SCOTUS decisions had major impact by fueling existing conflicts between key voting blocs holding largely irreconcilable positions.

    On other hand, another group of important decisions that did NOT result in titanic political clashes.

    For example, the triumph of Jim Crow (Pleassey v Ferguson 1896) and legalizing gay marriage (Obergefell v. Hodges 2015). In these cases, the political struggle preceded the decision, with SCOTUS essentially ratifying the political status quo. Civil rights cases were rare in US for nearly a half-century following P v F, while debate over gay rights have morphed from matrimony to public toilets - bit of a letdown however you look at it.

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    Andy_JS said:

    Well at least we can all waste away the hours lockdown playing on our new xbox series x, ps5 or pc with gtx 3080...oh wait all the pre-orders have all sold out.

    I've still got a number of jigsaws I didn't get round to doing the first time round.
    Never DID get around to cleaning my bedroom. OR raking out the den.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,129

    If I were Boris (admittedly a difficult Gedankenexperiment), I'd be trying to look forward more than one move. [OK, OK, in that case I wouldn't be Boris, but bear with me..]. And the big move I'd be looking to get right would be to ensure that Christmas will be as free of disruption as possible.

    Clearly I'm not Boris, because he seems to be trying to avoid a bit of short-term pain in what should be full knowledge that that approach maximises the chance of major disruption at Christmas.

    I don't think it is realistic that Christmas won't be disrupted. We have to prepare for 6 months of this now, unless we want to keep stop / starting full lockdowns.
    Yes, but it's a question of degree.
    I honestly think in 2-3 weeks we will follow Scotland with restrictions on home visits, and they will be in place for 6 months. And we might need to go even harder at times.

    So whichever way you butter it, that Christmas and New Year out the window.
    I'm a bit of an antisocial so and so, but secretly me and my other half are rather looking forward to having Christmas on our own without all our darling children and all that hassle. Am I/we alone?
    You're not. I feel the same although there will be a rush of guilt if my parents end up being alone for it. But I'm sure that restrictions will be loosened for Christmas unless the whole thing has gone bodybags in the corridor.
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    Nigelb said:

    Anyone fact checking Musk’s battery day claims ?
    Impressive plans.

    Any link to the claims? What's impressed you most so far?
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    BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    kinabalu said:

    'I just wonder what those CON MPs who gained seats at the last election think.'

    That they won their seats because of him and without him we'd be in for more years of Hung Parliament hell?

    People who actually like this country and its character are unlikely to have much issue with Boris' answer.

    Plenty of Conservatives think Boris is inept. This is not a case of “those who dislike this country and its character”.

    Quite frankly your entire comment is just the usual pointless bait-seeking drivel from you.
    Our Genial Host chose to highlight the Ipsos-MORI poll in which 40% say they are satisfied with Boris.

    Whether by coincidence or not 40% is also the Tory vote share in the latest Ipsos-MORI poll.

    So if your hypothesis is right that there are plenty of Conservatives who dislike Boris there must be plenty of non-Conservatives who do like him to balance that out.
    What’s your point?
    Most dislike of Boris is no more than party partisan politics. He's got 40% of the country behind him right now which is a great share for a PM in approval ratings historically.
    So? What has that got to do with my comment?

    @BluestBlue posted some dog whistle culture war nonsense and I called him out on it. Thats it.
    BluestBlue was right, I don't think people in this country who like this country and like our freedom loving nature are going to object to Boris saying it. People who like to bash the country and think we're no different to anywhere else will object. That's not culture war, that's reality.

    As for what its got to do with your comment, you claimed plenty of Tories think Boris is inept. The evidence from the polling is to the contrary, unless an equally balanced amount of non-Tories like him.
    There’s plenty of Con leaners on here that are currently unhappy with the Government.

    The rest of your comment is just repeating the same dog whistle culture war tosh.

    “Those who think Boris is clueless hate this country and what it stands for” give me strength.
    Who said that "those who think Boris is clueless hate this country and what it stands for"? I think you may need to improve your reading comprehension as that to the best of my knowledge was never said.
    Yes it is. That’s literally all @BluestBlue ever says.
    You seem not to know what the word 'literally' means, which is really quite sad.
    There is a perfectly viable modern use of "literally" to mean "when you really come down to it".

    Example - you're born, you live, you die, and that is literally all there is.

    I think that was the sense employed here.
    I know, but I'm not inclined to be generous if someone's literally being a dick.
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    YOLOd some (more) Tesla shares before Battery Day
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    alex_ said:

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/as-we-head-once-more-unto-the-breach-the-pm-must-urgently-step-up-a4553181.html

    "Throughout this crisis the public have understood that the situation is unprecedented and terrible trade-offs have to be made. They have been far more sympathetic to the Government’s dilemmas than its know-all critics in the media. But that sympathy is starting to wear thin, for two reasons. First, there is policy failure. Back in the spring, the two central government initiatives worked: the NHS was protected with the lockdown and jobs were saved with the furlough. But, in the absence of a vaccine, this only bought time to build the third initiative: a comprehensive testing regime.

    Four ex-prime ministers wrote privately before the summer to the current holder urging him to make this the supreme national effort. The health department has tried hard to make it so — and the logistics of offering close to a quarter of a million tests a day should not be underestimated. But we live in a country of 65 million people, whose lives can’t function properly if half of them have to self-isolate for two weeks. Has there been any sense in recent weeks that the Prime Minister is personally driving the testing effort? Where is the message that everything else in Whitehall has been subordinated to this great challenge? Why is the Cabinet Office devoting a third of its time to planning for lorry parks in Kent and emergency food supplies for a no-deal Brexit at new year that only a suicidal premier would now visit on the country?

    I said back in April / May time when there was all the screeching over locking down too late, testing not ramping up fast enough, not enough PPE etc, that I thought the government would be ok as long as they didn't repeat the same mistakes again im the future.

    Well the future is here now and it isnt looking like the government resits of their COVID exams are going to result in a much higher grade.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited September 2020
    HYUFD said:
    Greta and Priti ?

    This reboot is only on Britbox right? Which in the UK has bugger all subscribers. I am not sure I am going to shell out £6 a month just for spitting image.
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    alex_ said:

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/as-we-head-once-more-unto-the-breach-the-pm-must-urgently-step-up-a4553181.html

    "Throughout this crisis the public have understood that the situation is unprecedented and terrible trade-offs have to be made. They have been far more sympathetic to the Government’s dilemmas than its know-all critics in the media. But that sympathy is starting to wear thin, for two reasons. First, there is policy failure. Back in the spring, the two central government initiatives worked: the NHS was protected with the lockdown and jobs were saved with the furlough. But, in the absence of a vaccine, this only bought time to build the third initiative: a comprehensive testing regime.

    Four ex-prime ministers wrote privately before the summer to the current holder urging him to make this the supreme national effort. The health department has tried hard to make it so — and the logistics of offering close to a quarter of a million tests a day should not be underestimated. But we live in a country of 65 million people, whose lives can’t function properly if half of them have to self-isolate for two weeks. Has there been any sense in recent weeks that the Prime Minister is personally driving the testing effort? Where is the message that everything else in Whitehall has been subordinated to this great challenge? Why is the Cabinet Office devoting a third of its time to planning for lorry parks in Kent and emergency food supplies for a no-deal Brexit at new year that only a suicidal premier would now visit on the country?

    I said back in April / May time when there was all the screeching over locking down too late, testing not ramping up fast enough, not enough PPE etc, that I thought the government would be ok as long as they didn't repeat the same mistakes again im the future.

    Well the future is here now and it isnt looking like the government resits of their COVID exams are going to result in a much higher grade.
    Actions being taken with probably over 90% fewer daily cases than last time (remembering the estimated daily peak was 100k last time).
    Testing has been ramped up to a quarter of a million daily tests, more per capita than any other large country in the entire world. Literally world beating.
    Not seen any sign of PPE shortages yet.

    So it looks like a much better grade this time around.
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    nico679 said:

    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    Apparently Cindy McCain will be formally endorsing Joe Biden tomorrow and will be on the three morning shows on CBS, NBC and ABC . It’s no secret that Biden and the McCains have been very good friends for many years but this is quite a big deal . John McCain was hugely popular in Arizona and her endorsement should help with both the President and down ballot races in the Senate and House . Mark Kelly the ex astronaut is leading the vile Martha Mcsally and should hopefully rid the state of the Trump arse licker.

    Though the McCains hated Trump in 2016 too but he still won Arizona and the EC
    And then lost one of their senate seats in 2018 to the Dem Kyrsten Sinema and the state is a toss up now although Biden has a small lead at the moment .
    Not exactly news as she spoke at (or rather with) the 2020 Democratic National Convention.

    Note that Cindy McCain is a regular on ABC's "The View" with reported 2.5m daily viewers as of January 2020. So her impact is national and NOT localized to just AZ.

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    kinabalu said:

    'I just wonder what those CON MPs who gained seats at the last election think.'

    That they won their seats because of him and without him we'd be in for more years of Hung Parliament hell?

    People who actually like this country and its character are unlikely to have much issue with Boris' answer.

    Plenty of Conservatives think Boris is inept. This is not a case of “those who dislike this country and its character”.

    Quite frankly your entire comment is just the usual pointless bait-seeking drivel from you.
    Our Genial Host chose to highlight the Ipsos-MORI poll in which 40% say they are satisfied with Boris.

    Whether by coincidence or not 40% is also the Tory vote share in the latest Ipsos-MORI poll.

    So if your hypothesis is right that there are plenty of Conservatives who dislike Boris there must be plenty of non-Conservatives who do like him to balance that out.
    What’s your point?
    Most dislike of Boris is no more than party partisan politics. He's got 40% of the country behind him right now which is a great share for a PM in approval ratings historically.
    So? What has that got to do with my comment?

    @BluestBlue posted some dog whistle culture war nonsense and I called him out on it. Thats it.
    BluestBlue was right, I don't think people in this country who like this country and like our freedom loving nature are going to object to Boris saying it. People who like to bash the country and think we're no different to anywhere else will object. That's not culture war, that's reality.

    As for what its got to do with your comment, you claimed plenty of Tories think Boris is inept. The evidence from the polling is to the contrary, unless an equally balanced amount of non-Tories like him.
    There’s plenty of Con leaners on here that are currently unhappy with the Government.

    The rest of your comment is just repeating the same dog whistle culture war tosh.

    “Those who think Boris is clueless hate this country and what it stands for” give me strength.
    Who said that "those who think Boris is clueless hate this country and what it stands for"? I think you may need to improve your reading comprehension as that to the best of my knowledge was never said.
    Yes it is. That’s literally all @BluestBlue ever says.
    You seem not to know what the word 'literally' means, which is really quite sad.
    There is a perfectly viable modern use of "literally" to mean "when you really come down to it".

    Example - you're born, you live, you die, and that is literally all there is.

    I think that was the sense employed here.
    I know, but I'm not inclined to be generous if someone's literally being a dick.
    (Gave this one a "like" cause it made me LOL.)
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    My youngest daughter is having a gap year so she can start Uni when she's 18. Of her 8 closest school friends, 7 have gone to Uni and moved into halls of residence, 1 has tested positive and 5 are in blocks with other people who have tested positive so they are self-isolating. Nobody was social distancing in halls of residence. Nobody. Covid is ripping through the freshers.
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    nico679 said:

    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    Apparently Cindy McCain will be formally endorsing Joe Biden tomorrow and will be on the three morning shows on CBS, NBC and ABC . It’s no secret that Biden and the McCains have been very good friends for many years but this is quite a big deal . John McCain was hugely popular in Arizona and her endorsement should help with both the President and down ballot races in the Senate and House . Mark Kelly the ex astronaut is leading the vile Martha Mcsally and should hopefully rid the state of the Trump arse licker.

    Though the McCains hated Trump in 2016 too but he still won Arizona and the EC
    And then lost one of their senate seats in 2018 to the Dem Kyrsten Sinema and the state is a toss up now although Biden has a small lead at the moment .
    It's more of a perfect storm for Trump. Both Dems and the GOP think Biden is a centrist they can live with,

    For the traditional Republican, Biden will do more things they like. Build up NATO. Cut some sort of deal on Social Security. AND he'll be a lame duck from the start.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,141
    edited September 2020
    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    Apparently Cindy McCain will be formally endorsing Joe Biden tomorrow and will be on the three morning shows on CBS, NBC and ABC . It’s no secret that Biden and the McCains have been very good friends for many years but this is quite a big deal . John McCain was hugely popular in Arizona and her endorsement should help with both the President and down ballot races in the Senate and House . Mark Kelly the ex astronaut is leading the vile Martha Mcsally and should hopefully rid the state of the Trump arse licker.

    Though the McCains hated Trump in 2016 too but he still won Arizona and the EC
    The difference is that Cindy McCain and a lot of other traditional conservative anti-Trump people are getting squarely behind Joe Biden this time, last time a lot of them equivocated about Hillary, like this:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/sen-john-mccain-i-can-t-vote-trump-or-clinton-n664151
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,153

    He is extraordinarily inept.

    And extraordinarily insulting of people in other countries, too.
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    Alison Pearson is one of the worst journalists in the country.

    I don’t know what she believes in, her views depending on the weather.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,141
    edited September 2020
    Oh, America.

    * Florida passes a ballot proposition allowing former felons to vote.
    * This seems like it might advantage Dems as former felons are disproportionately black, and if they vote they vote Dem, but not overwhelmingly so, as many former felons are white, and low-education white people go heavily for Trump.
    * Florida's GOP House passes a bill preventing them from voting unless they've paid off all outstanding debts and fines
    * Mike Bloomberg funds an NGO that pays off the debts of former felons... but not the white ones...

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mike-bloomberg-raises-16-million-to-allow-former-felons-to-vote-in-florida/2020/09/21/6dda787e-fc5a-11ea-8d05-9beaaa91c71f_story.html
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,458
    edited September 2020
    Nate Cohn confirms that Trump is within 2% of making the race neck-and-neck. (Because Biden's current average lead in PA, the most likely tipping point state, is about 4% at the moment).

    https://twitter.com/Nate_Cohn/status/1308377533570789377
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    For me, the question is will Boris still be PM by end of 2021, he doesnt seem interested or have the will. A set of bad results in May next year and I genuinely think he is gone. Possibly a face saving role with the UN?
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,222
    edited September 2020
    Cyclefree said:

    He is extraordinarily inept.

    And extraordinarily insulting of people in other countries, too.
    The idea that Italians like doing what government tells them is an interesting one.

    And why Italy and Germany? I do hope our PM has his mindset fixed in the right century.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,222

    For me, the question is will Boris still be PM by end of 2021, he doesnt seem interested or have the will. A set of bad results in May next year and I genuinely think he is gone. Possibly a face saving role with the UN?

    The UN employs clowns now?
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,845
    edited September 2020

    Oh, America.

    * Florida passes a ballot proposition allowing former felons to vote.
    * This seems like it might advantage Dems as former felons are disproportionately black, and if they vote they vote Dem, but not overwhelmingly so, as many former felons are white, and low-education white people go heavily for Trump.
    * Florida's GOP House passes a bill preventing them from voting unless they've paid off all outstanding debts and fines
    * Mike Bloomberg funds an NGO that pays off the debts of former felons... but not the white ones...

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mike-bloomberg-raises-16-million-to-allow-former-felons-to-vote-in-florida/2020/09/21/6dda787e-fc5a-11ea-8d05-9beaaa91c71f_story.html

    That’s a story where each part could only ever happen in the good old US of A - and with every possibility that the next part is that State’s inability to accurately and quickly declare the result of their election, as was famously the case two decades ago.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,863

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    BRITISH COLUMBIA - PROVINCIAL GENERAL ELECTION OCTOBER 24

    On Monday, New Democratic Party (NDP) Premier John Hogan announced a snap provincial general election for October 24. Due to COVID new rules will be in force including expanded in-person and postal voting.

    Last BC general election was in 2017, when BC Liberal (mostly federal Conservatives) majority government under ended up tied 47-47 with their perennial foe the BC NDP, with the Greens winning three seats.

    NDP entered a pact with the Greens and formed a minority government, with the Greens outside but on board. Which has proved pretty popular, with result that Hogan and his party have been riding pretty high in the polls.

    Rumors about a possible snap election have been swirling around Victoria for months. The polls are one reason, the relative unpreparedness of the other parties (the Greens just elected their new leader this month) is another. Third is NDP's belief that they are by contrast well-prepared, with a (rare) funding advantage and (equally rare) winning strategy based on their government's performance.

    The risk is that voters might resent having an election in the midst of COVID - especially since the next one wasn't scheduled until NEXT year. (BC hasn't had a snap general election in two decades.) AND Hogan is breaking a specific pledge to the Greens NOT to call a snap GE.

    AND last time that an NDP government was re-elected, in 1996, it ended in tears, with the premier & party ensnared in scandals that resulted in almost total wipe out the next election, and keep the Dippers out of power until 2017.

    My guess is, they will do it again, with somewhat better results short- and long-term.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,922
    HYUFD said:
    That's obviously Greta Thunberg on the left, but the right could be anyone. Priti Patel?
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    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:
    That's obviously Greta Thunberg on the left, but the right could be anyone. Priti Patel?
    Aaron Bastani has predictably had a woke tantrum about the Greta puppet but I can't see the problem myself, and as most of you know I'm pretty left-of-centre.

    If you are going to stand up in public and voice opinions then be prepared for criticism, even if you're a teenager with (alleged) autism.

    But besides, Spitting Image is glorious mockery of anyone and everyone, right or left from any background. Well done to them.
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    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    My youngest daughter is having a gap year so she can start Uni when she's 18. Of her 8 closest school friends, 7 have gone to Uni and moved into halls of residence, 1 has tested positive and 5 are in blocks with other people who have tested positive so they are self-isolating. Nobody was social distancing in halls of residence. Nobody. Covid is ripping through the freshers.
    Aside from the relatively few youngsters who may die now, I think the Long Covid issue is the one that will bite them in the ass hardest. There are too many reports emerging on this to dismiss it.
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    FishingFishing Posts: 4,560

    alex_ said:

    'I just wonder what those CON MPs who gained seats at the last election think.'

    That they won their seats because of him and without him we'd be in for more years of Hung Parliament hell?

    People who actually like this country and its character are unlikely to have much issue with Boris' answer.

    It's a bit difficult though, for the vast majority of people who are by and large seeking to follow the rules (ok they might have their little mini rebellion here and there), to have it implied that the 20% ruining for everybody are nevertheless "freedom loving". Because how much can you really convincingly criticise somebody for that?
    By flattering their noble impulses before telling them to bloody well buckle up. There are plenty of rumbles off - amongst the public, MPs, press - who would prefer a more 'muscular' (i.e. ignore it and hope it goes away) response to the virus. Better to make them feel heard, at least.
    So what's the cost of that time lag between flattering noble impulses and telling them to buckle up?

    As far as anyone can tell, the infection count is increasing 10% a day at the moment, doubling every week.

    Do we have to wait for the problem to become obvious to the most bone-headed MPs on the government benches before taking further action?
    I know this may seem like a shocking concept but how about trying to treat people like adults, tell them its serious and we need to be more careful, do some minor changes and see if that works before throwing the baby out with the bathwater?
    Simple answer is that the maths and biology of this is very asymmetric. If you overreact to start with, there's some annoyance and some economic harm, but you can tweak in three weeks. If you underreact to start with, there are more dead bodies (who aren't coming back to life) and you need to put the brakes on even harder in a really damaging way. As happened in March.

    And if that means annoying the fringes of your party, so be it. It's the difference between a statesman and a partisan hack.
    There's more than just biology there's economics and livelihoods on the line too. Overreacting now could see perfectly viable businesses, livelihoods, life works, jobs etc being destroyed. And why? Because you're two impatient to see if other measures worked first?
    Not just that, but forgoing economic growth could well be killing more people than the virus has. Those people aren't coming back to life either.
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    not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,341
    edited September 2020
    Andy_JS said:

    Nate Cohn confirms that Trump is within 2% of making the race neck-and-neck. (Because Biden's current average lead in PA, the most likely tipping point state, is about 4% at the moment).

    https://twitter.com/Nate_Cohn/status/1308377533570789377

    Nate Cohn confirms Biden is within 2% of the biggest electoral college victory in 36 years and carrying Texas for the Dems for the first time since 1976. Amazing what a one sided view PB takes of this race.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,222
    edited September 2020

    My youngest daughter is having a gap year so she can start Uni when she's 18. Of her 8 closest school friends, 7 have gone to Uni and moved into halls of residence, 1 has tested positive and 5 are in blocks with other people who have tested positive so they are self-isolating. Nobody was social distancing in halls of residence. Nobody. Covid is ripping through the freshers.
    Aside from the relatively few youngsters who may die now, I think the Long Covid issue is the one that will bite them in the ass hardest. There are too many reports emerging on this to dismiss it.
    It is still a very small proportion, and unclear whether the effects in those cases are permanent or arise because it can seem to take the body some months to clear the virus.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,530
    I have said all along that the "Stay at home" "Protect the NHS" was a dangerous one. It is an appalling situation that this sick patient was never assessed face to face. A very depressing tale for a morning:

    https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1308643692069220354?s=09
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    FishingFishing Posts: 4,560

    Andy_JS said:

    Nate Cohn confirms that Trump is within 2% of making the race neck-and-neck. (Because Biden's current average lead in PA, the most likely tipping point state, is about 4% at the moment).

    https://twitter.com/Nate_Cohn/status/1308377533570789377

    Nate Cohn confirms Biden is within 2% of the biggest electoral college victory in 36 years and carrying Texas for the Dems for the first time since 1976. Amazing what a one sided view PB takes of this race.
    Not when you consider the elections of 2016 and 2017. There's always the once-bitten-twice-shy crowd.
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    FishingFishing Posts: 4,560
    Foxy said:

    I have said all along that the "Stay at home" "Protect the NHS" was a dangerous one. It is an appalling situation that this sick patient was never assessed face to face. A very depressing tale for a morning:

    https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1308643692069220354?s=09

    Giving one-size-fits-all advice in six words for 68 million people is surely always going to lead to hard cases. I suppose the best you can hope for is that it saves more lives than it costs?
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    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    IanB2 said:

    My youngest daughter is having a gap year so she can start Uni when she's 18. Of her 8 closest school friends, 7 have gone to Uni and moved into halls of residence, 1 has tested positive and 5 are in blocks with other people who have tested positive so they are self-isolating. Nobody was social distancing in halls of residence. Nobody. Covid is ripping through the freshers.
    Aside from the relatively few youngsters who may die now, I think the Long Covid issue is the one that will bite them in the ass hardest. There are too many reports emerging on this to dismiss it.
    It is still a very small proportion, and unclear whether the effects in those cases are permanent or arise because it can seem to take the body some months to clear the virus.
    Like Glandular Fever
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,222
    Sandpit said:

    Oh, America.

    * Florida passes a ballot proposition allowing former felons to vote.
    * This seems like it might advantage Dems as former felons are disproportionately black, and if they vote they vote Dem, but not overwhelmingly so, as many former felons are white, and low-education white people go heavily for Trump.
    * Florida's GOP House passes a bill preventing them from voting unless they've paid off all outstanding debts and fines
    * Mike Bloomberg funds an NGO that pays off the debts of former felons... but not the white ones...

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mike-bloomberg-raises-16-million-to-allow-former-felons-to-vote-in-florida/2020/09/21/6dda787e-fc5a-11ea-8d05-9beaaa91c71f_story.html

    That’s a story where each part could only ever happen in the good old US of A - and with every possibility that the next part is that State’s inability to accurately and quickly declare the result of their election, as was famously the case two decades ago.
    It partly arises from their willingness to treat a postmark as gospel and therefore being willing to wait for votes posted that haven’t arrived.

    The UK attitude used to be the same, until a notable attempt by some postmen to win the football pools by competing a coupon after the results and fiddling the postmark to make it look like a delayed entry.

    Requiring votes to arrive by polling day, and allowing hand delivery if necessary, is a much better system.
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    Fishing said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Nate Cohn confirms that Trump is within 2% of making the race neck-and-neck. (Because Biden's current average lead in PA, the most likely tipping point state, is about 4% at the moment).

    https://twitter.com/Nate_Cohn/status/1308377533570789377

    Nate Cohn confirms Biden is within 2% of the biggest electoral college victory in 36 years and carrying Texas for the Dems for the first time since 1976. Amazing what a one sided view PB takes of this race.
    Not when you consider the elections of 2016 and 2017. There's always the once-bitten-twice-shy crowd.
    Yes, those elections show that normal size polling errors occur fairly often. But there’s no reason to assume they always affect a particular side.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,222
    alex_ said:

    IanB2 said:

    My youngest daughter is having a gap year so she can start Uni when she's 18. Of her 8 closest school friends, 7 have gone to Uni and moved into halls of residence, 1 has tested positive and 5 are in blocks with other people who have tested positive so they are self-isolating. Nobody was social distancing in halls of residence. Nobody. Covid is ripping through the freshers.
    Aside from the relatively few youngsters who may die now, I think the Long Covid issue is the one that will bite them in the ass hardest. There are too many reports emerging on this to dismiss it.
    It is still a very small proportion, and unclear whether the effects in those cases are permanent or arise because it can seem to take the body some months to clear the virus.
    Like Glandular Fever
    Yes, and I remember having that twice as a student, which isn’t supposed to be possible.

    Here in Bergamo, where I am enjoying a hearty breakfast, they are just starting the second follow up of their previous virus patients (they estimate 25% of the population had it, probably the highest in Europe). At first follow up a significant minority of patients had lingering symptoms, ranging from mild through psychological through to some cases of serious deliberation including lung scarring and heart effects. The good news is that the second follow up, which started a few weeks back, is finding most, but not all, of these patients are recovering, and some are completely better. Here’s hoping.
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    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
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    Andy_JS said:

    Nate Cohn confirms that Trump is within 2% of making the race neck-and-neck. (Because Biden's current average lead in PA, the most likely tipping point state, is about 4% at the moment).

    https://twitter.com/Nate_Cohn/status/1308377533570789377

    Nate Cohn confirms Biden is within 2% of the biggest electoral college victory in 36 years and carrying Texas for the Dems for the first time since 1976. Amazing what a one sided view PB takes of this race.
    What odds would you say are appropriate for a race where one candidate has led the other by a steady 4% or so for several months?

    I haven't seen anyone here saying it's a sure thing - but normally you'd say the leading candidate is a fairly strong favourite.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,222

    Andy_JS said:

    Nate Cohn confirms that Trump is within 2% of making the race neck-and-neck. (Because Biden's current average lead in PA, the most likely tipping point state, is about 4% at the moment).

    https://twitter.com/Nate_Cohn/status/1308377533570789377

    Nate Cohn confirms Biden is within 2% of the biggest electoral college victory in 36 years and carrying Texas for the Dems for the first time since 1976. Amazing what a one sided view PB takes of this race.
    What odds would you say are appropriate for a race where one candidate has led the other by a steady 4% or so for several months?

    I haven't seen anyone here saying it's a sure thing - but normally you'd say the leading candidate is a fairly strong favourite.
    Agree; the challenge is the ongoing fallout from the SC vacancy, which it isn’t clear how will fall.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,222
    edited September 2020
    Scott_xP said:
    The sub-heading says it all:

    He thought making it upriver would fulfil his dream – instead it’s turned into a cruel form of humiliation

    Although I liked the description of Cummings as Johnson’s emotional support psycho
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    New thread
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,924
    alex_ said:
    There's a post on my Facebook to the effect that we haven't sorted out air travel yet, and it's still possible that air travel could halt, or, more likely, be curtailed.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,530
    edited September 2020

    Andy_JS said:

    Nate Cohn confirms that Trump is within 2% of making the race neck-and-neck. (Because Biden's current average lead in PA, the most likely tipping point state, is about 4% at the moment).

    https://twitter.com/Nate_Cohn/status/1308377533570789377

    Nate Cohn confirms Biden is within 2% of the biggest electoral college victory in 36 years and carrying Texas for the Dems for the first time since 1976. Amazing what a one sided view PB takes of this race.
    What odds would you say are appropriate for a race where one candidate has led the other by a steady 4% or so for several months?

    I haven't seen anyone here saying it's a sure thing - but normally you'd say the leading candidate is a fairly strong favourite.
    There is no such thing as a sure thing, but Biden's lead has been more or less the same since February despite plenty of events. With six weeks to go and many voting early, it is hard to see that change.

    Remember too how rare it is to lose the popular vote and win the Electoral College, it has only happened twice in modern times, and one of those was only 0.5%.

    Pollsters, Pundits and PB Punters are all busy fighting the last war. I reckon Trump will struggle to break 200 EV, and have bet accordingly.
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    I'm absolutely convinced that Armando Iannouchi used his Time Trumpet to venture forth to 2020 and use the floundering mess that is Boris Johnson as his inspiration for Ben Swain.
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    The whole thing is an absolute farce as shown here https://youtu.be/mw6kUrvn2Ek
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    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,113

    alex_ said:

    Does he explain Brexit on us being a "freedom loving country" as well?

    And given that he's going on TV blaming these "freedom loving" people for not following the rules, perhaps he might be having second thoughts about whether being "freedom loving" always leads to optimal outcomes...

    Yes I think Brexit can be explained on us being a freedom loving country, we are a different country to most of Europe which is why we were fundamentally unsuited to Europe.
    If we were freedom loving why did we elect an autocratic government? You, by your posts on here, show that you are only interested in your own freedom, not that of this country as a whole. The Germans value their freedom far more than we do because they know what it is to lose it. We are European. People in Manchester have far more in common with people in Munich than Melbourne or Minneapolis.
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    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,113


    Doesn't know much, does he?

    It’s more accurate to say that your stock response to anyone on here is along the lines of “we won, nah nah na nah nah, suck it up” coupled with an ad hominem attack on someone’s intelligence.

    Freedom loving people don’t vote for a party that has Priti Patel on the front bench.
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