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The joy of six. How many of these states will Trump win? – politicalbetting.com

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  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067

    You think being a vegetarian makes you a legend? That a prospective PM saying eating meat is wrong for the planet is the right thing to do or a vote winner?

    This is worse than him kneeling. Awful, absolutely awful.
    You do believe in the anthropogenic forcing of the climate?
  • Philip, do you think climate change is real?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Philip, do you think climate change is real?

    Only in America!
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877

    You think being a vegetarian makes you a legend? That a prospective PM saying eating meat is wrong for the planet is the right thing to do or a vote winner?

    This is worse than him kneeling. Awful, absolutely awful.
    There's nothing wrong with being a vegetarian. He wasn't trying to convince others to be one, he was saying it was very difficult because he misses bacon sandwiches and curry. That's relatable
    90% of the country tend to think vegetarians are a bit wierd. Being thought a bit odd possibly isn't a vote winner
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,859
    Am I missing something or is this not all going to be completely superseded by Elon Musk's satellite array?
  • Pagan2 said:

    You think being a vegetarian makes you a legend? That a prospective PM saying eating meat is wrong for the planet is the right thing to do or a vote winner?

    This is worse than him kneeling. Awful, absolutely awful.
    There's nothing wrong with being a vegetarian. He wasn't trying to convince others to be one, he was saying it was very difficult because he misses bacon sandwiches and curry. That's relatable
    90% of the country tend to think vegetarians are a bit wierd. Being thought a bit odd possibly isn't a vote winner
    Why is being vegetarian weird?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Jose Mourinho is the Portuguese George Graham.

    Discuss.

    These days, more like David O'Leary.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Starmer also says he does not want 'another divisive Scottish referendum' on independence

    'Does not want' is by no means the same as ruling one out, which is what PM Johnson has said.
    Well as the Tories have a majority of 80 until 2024 what he says only matters after then anyway
    Thought at least one of those elected as a Tory had been expelled?
    Must say I originally thought the next election wouldn't be until 2024; now I'm not so sure.
    Unless polls consistently come out showing a 20% +Tory lead for six months, very unlikely now, there will not be an election until 2024, that is guaranteed
    Is It your belief that if the PM changes, they should seek their own mandate as May and Johnson both did?
    No, Brown did not, Major did not and nor will should any successor for Boris, however as I have said I remain of the view Boris will stay Tory leader and PM until 2024
    Brown was widely criticised for not and likely lost support in the polls as a result of not having an election.

    Ironically enough he inherited a similar position to what Johnson's successor might.
    Brown made the sensible decision, he had a comfortable majority of 66 and therefore would have been an idiot to risk that at an early election, especially as the polls were neck and neck after the 2007 party conferences, in the end he got another 3 years as PM before losing power (while still preventing an outright Tory majority in 2010).

    May and Boris were in a different scenario as May only had a small majority of 12 and Boris had no majority at all, the Tories now have a majority of 80 so are far closer to the position Labour were under when Brown too over ie very little to gain and everything to lose from an early election
    I recall a Boris Johnson (ring any bells?) criticising Brown strongly.
    So what Boris would not be the new PM anyway, it would likely be Sunak and Boris is the elected PM already.

    We Tories had to wait a full 5 years from when Cameron was elected Tory leader in 2005 until the next general election in 2010 so I am sure you Labour supporters can wait 4 years after Starmer was elected Labour leader until election 2024
    The Labour fantasists think they're going to be in power tomorrow. The rest of 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, and well into 2024 before they even get a chance are going to drag for them, I fear :smile:
    Under the terms of the FTPA the next election is due on 2nd May 2024 - just over 3 years and 7 months from today.If we go back in time for the same period, we find ouselves in February 2017 in the middle of the Copeland by-election campaign and 7 months beyond Theresa May becoming PM. That still feels pretty recent to me.
    Except that repeal of the FTPA is explicitly promised in the Conservative manifesto, and so can be implemented at any time, without obstruction from the Lords. There's no reason whatsoever why the next election can't be in the autumn of 2024. I'd even be tempted to go with December - it just feels lucky, for some reason...
    Very unlikely to be later than October 2024.Moreover replacing the FTPA is somewhat problematic in that it might mean restoring the Royal Prerogative which was removed by the 2011Act.Apparently there is no precedent for that.
    I'm sure we'll find a way. So in any case, September / October 2024 is entirely possible, and in my view likely.

    That's four full years from today.
    If it is then that's a bad sign. It means the PM isn't confident of winning an election sooner.

    A PM that is confident normally goes sooner. See: 1983, 1987, 2001, 2005, 2017 (confidence was hubris) and 2019.
    A last minute election is because the PM has no confidence they will win even if they might. See: 1992, 1997, 2010 and 2015.
    And yet 50% of the last-minute examples you quoted were victories! I always thought Labour were foolish to go early in the 2000s - they could have governed for 15 years, instead of 13, but instead voluntarily gave up almost 14% of their mandate.

    Anyway, it's hardly last-minute in the circumstances: going in spring artificially truncates the government's term to 4.25 years, just because the last election was very unusually - by necessity - held in December.

    I think an extra 6 months beyond the 'expected' date to carry out the government's programme, given that the coronavirus emergency will dominate a year of its time at the absolute minimum, is entirely reasonable.
  • Pulpstar said:

    You think being a vegetarian makes you a legend? That a prospective PM saying eating meat is wrong for the planet is the right thing to do or a vote winner?

    This is worse than him kneeling. Awful, absolutely awful.
    One of the oddest takes on anything in the history of pb.
    Philip is on the sauce early, it seems
    I'm a vegetarian, although I occasionally eat fish.

    BSE was the trigger for me, although I had been cutting way down on meat long before that as it was cheaper.
  • Train numbers plummeted 95pc during lockdown and have recovered only to roughly 30pc of pre-Covid levels. Plans for flexible season tickets have been shunted into the sidings by the Treasury, industry insiders said.

    Treasury officials are said to be concerned that three-day season tickets could end any hope of workers returning to the office five days a week, even once a coronavirus vaccine is found. This could leave taxpayers with an even bigger bill to run the railways.

    God help us

    Welcome to the world of the Nationalised Industry. Where the interests of

    - The Treasury
    - Government policy
    - The suppliers/contractors
    - The workers
    - The users

    ....are looked after. In that order.

    2 months to get a telephone was a *feature* of BT.

    By only allowing BT to supply the physical phones, the "right" manufacturer got the job.

    By not employing too many people to install phones, costs were kept down.

    Additionally, by rationing phone installation, *excessive* phone usage was held down. Meaning that vast amounts of money didn't have to be *wasted* on increasing capacity in the network.

    At the same time wages were good, to keep the unions happy, and the hours were.. light.

    All good. Unless you wanted a phone.
    Absolutely. The state can't do anything. Except for when I catch a local bus to the station and the bus is owned by the German State. As I leave I use my phone to switch off my heating which is provided by the French State. At the station the train is run by the German State. I browse the internet on the way to London and order stuff which will be delivered by the French State.

    Nationalised industry can't do shit.
  • I though the humanising element was the fact he said he missed bacon sandwiches and chicken curry, seemed relatable to me.

    I couldn't give a toss if you're a vegetarian or not, odd the right believe in personal liberty only when it's something they agree with.
  • Train numbers plummeted 95pc during lockdown and have recovered only to roughly 30pc of pre-Covid levels. Plans for flexible season tickets have been shunted into the sidings by the Treasury, industry insiders said.

    Treasury officials are said to be concerned that three-day season tickets could end any hope of workers returning to the office five days a week, even once a coronavirus vaccine is found. This could leave taxpayers with an even bigger bill to run the railways.

    God help us

    Welcome to the world of the Nationalised Industry. Where the interests of

    - The Treasury
    - Government policy
    - The suppliers/contractors
    - The workers
    - The users

    ....are looked after. In that order.

    2 months to get a telephone was a *feature* of BT.

    By only allowing BT to supply the physical phones, the "right" manufacturer got the job.

    By not employing too many people to install phones, costs were kept down.

    Additionally, by rationing phone installation, *excessive* phone usage was held down. Meaning that vast amounts of money didn't have to be *wasted* on increasing capacity in the network.

    At the same time wages were good, to keep the unions happy, and the hours were.. light.

    All good. Unless you wanted a phone.
    Absolutely. The state can't do anything. Except for when I catch a local bus to the station and the bus is owned by the German State. As I leave I use my phone to switch off my heating which is provided by the French State. At the station the train is run by the German State. I browse the internet on the way to London and order stuff which will be delivered by the French State.

    Nationalised industry can't do shit.
    I'm Joe Biden. And I approve this message.
  • Pulpstar said:

    You think being a vegetarian makes you a legend? That a prospective PM saying eating meat is wrong for the planet is the right thing to do or a vote winner?

    This is worse than him kneeling. Awful, absolutely awful.
    One of the oddest takes on anything in the history of pb.
    Philip is on the sauce early, it seems
    I'm a vegetarian, although I occasionally eat fish.

    BSE was the trigger for me, although I had been cutting way down on meat long before that as it was cheaper.
    You'll be glad to know I don't consider you weird
  • Either of those two goals is a very low bar frankly. :smiley:
  • I'd like to see some polling for this 90% figure @Pagan2 has
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137
    edited September 2020
    My sister is vegeterian but she lives in London where being a vegetarian or vegan is pretty standard, however it is not going to win Starmer any votes in the meat eating Red Wall
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877

    Pagan2 said:

    You think being a vegetarian makes you a legend? That a prospective PM saying eating meat is wrong for the planet is the right thing to do or a vote winner?

    This is worse than him kneeling. Awful, absolutely awful.
    There's nothing wrong with being a vegetarian. He wasn't trying to convince others to be one, he was saying it was very difficult because he misses bacon sandwiches and curry. That's relatable
    90% of the country tend to think vegetarians are a bit wierd. Being thought a bit odd possibly isn't a vote winner
    Why is being vegetarian weird?
    Go ask the average guy in the streets and they will tell you. Not claiming people should think that any more than they think anyone else that has an out of the ordinary diet is a little odd.

    In addition while 90% of vegetarians and vegans are fine most people have met at least one of the crusader types that is on a mission to convert everyone to a meatless diet
  • Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    You think being a vegetarian makes you a legend? That a prospective PM saying eating meat is wrong for the planet is the right thing to do or a vote winner?

    This is worse than him kneeling. Awful, absolutely awful.
    There's nothing wrong with being a vegetarian. He wasn't trying to convince others to be one, he was saying it was very difficult because he misses bacon sandwiches and curry. That's relatable
    90% of the country tend to think vegetarians are a bit wierd. Being thought a bit odd possibly isn't a vote winner
    Why is being vegetarian weird?
    Go ask the average guy in the streets and they will tell you. Not claiming people should think that any more than they think anyone else that has an out of the ordinary diet is a little odd.

    In addition while 90% of vegetarians and vegans are fine most people have met at least one of the crusader types that is on a mission to convert everyone to a meatless diet
    Let's see some evidence for this 90% figure, or it is plucked out of thin air like your other claims?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    Pagan2 said:

    You think being a vegetarian makes you a legend? That a prospective PM saying eating meat is wrong for the planet is the right thing to do or a vote winner?

    This is worse than him kneeling. Awful, absolutely awful.
    There's nothing wrong with being a vegetarian. He wasn't trying to convince others to be one, he was saying it was very difficult because he misses bacon sandwiches and curry. That's relatable
    90% of the country tend to think vegetarians are a bit wierd. Being thought a bit odd possibly isn't a vote winner
    Citation needed.
  • Pagan2 said:

    You think being a vegetarian makes you a legend? That a prospective PM saying eating meat is wrong for the planet is the right thing to do or a vote winner?

    This is worse than him kneeling. Awful, absolutely awful.
    There's nothing wrong with being a vegetarian. He wasn't trying to convince others to be one, he was saying it was very difficult because he misses bacon sandwiches and curry. That's relatable
    90% of the country tend to think vegetarians are a bit wierd. Being thought a bit odd possibly isn't a vote winner
    Citation needed.
    He won't have one.
  • Being a vegetarian makes me like Sir Keir a bit more too. Fair play, I think we treat animals terribly in general for food and have tried to give it up myself with not a lot of success.

    It also helps explain his soy boy views on everything, although not his bacon face appearance.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,366

    Train numbers plummeted 95pc during lockdown and have recovered only to roughly 30pc of pre-Covid levels. Plans for flexible season tickets have been shunted into the sidings by the Treasury, industry insiders said.

    Treasury officials are said to be concerned that three-day season tickets could end any hope of workers returning to the office five days a week, even once a coronavirus vaccine is found. This could leave taxpayers with an even bigger bill to run the railways.

    God help us

    Welcome to the world of the Nationalised Industry. Where the interests of

    - The Treasury
    - Government policy
    - The suppliers/contractors
    - The workers
    - The users

    ....are looked after. In that order.

    2 months to get a telephone was a *feature* of BT.

    By only allowing BT to supply the physical phones, the "right" manufacturer got the job.

    By not employing too many people to install phones, costs were kept down.

    Additionally, by rationing phone installation, *excessive* phone usage was held down. Meaning that vast amounts of money didn't have to be *wasted* on increasing capacity in the network.

    At the same time wages were good, to keep the unions happy, and the hours were.. light.

    All good. Unless you wanted a phone.
    Absolutely. The state can't do anything. Except for when I catch a local bus to the station and the bus is owned by the German State. As I leave I use my phone to switch off my heating which is provided by the French State. At the station the train is run by the German State. I browse the internet on the way to London and order stuff which will be delivered by the French State.

    Nationalised industry can't do shit.
    That is not what I said. Nationalised industries simply have a different set of priorities to the private owned industries. The phenomenon of Producer Interest is a long studied one.

    Unless you make strenuous efforts to deal with this, you get all the joys of monopolies multiplied by the joys of absolute protection from comeback.
  • Train numbers plummeted 95pc during lockdown and have recovered only to roughly 30pc of pre-Covid levels. Plans for flexible season tickets have been shunted into the sidings by the Treasury, industry insiders said.

    Treasury officials are said to be concerned that three-day season tickets could end any hope of workers returning to the office five days a week, even once a coronavirus vaccine is found. This could leave taxpayers with an even bigger bill to run the railways.

    God help us

    Welcome to the world of the Nationalised Industry. Where the interests of

    - The Treasury
    - Government policy
    - The suppliers/contractors
    - The workers
    - The users

    ....are looked after. In that order.

    2 months to get a telephone was a *feature* of BT.

    By only allowing BT to supply the physical phones, the "right" manufacturer got the job.

    By not employing too many people to install phones, costs were kept down.

    Additionally, by rationing phone installation, *excessive* phone usage was held down. Meaning that vast amounts of money didn't have to be *wasted* on increasing capacity in the network.

    At the same time wages were good, to keep the unions happy, and the hours were.. light.

    All good. Unless you wanted a phone.
    Absolutely. The state can't do anything. Except for when I catch a local bus to the station and the bus is owned by the German State. As I leave I use my phone to switch off my heating which is provided by the French State. At the station the train is run by the German State. I browse the internet on the way to London and order stuff which will be delivered by the French State.

    Nationalised industry can't do shit.
    That is not what I said. Nationalised industries simply have a different set of priorities to the private owned industries. The phenomenon of Producer Interest is a long studied one.

    Unless you make strenuous efforts to deal with this, you get all the joys of monopolies multiplied by the joys of absolute protection from comeback.
    Do you think the privatised railway system has been a great success or a failure?

    Before you say it's not truly privatised, we did try that and Railtrack went bust.

    Perhaps it's the case that some industries should be state-owned and others not
  • I'd like to see some polling for this 90% figure @Pagan2 has

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/lifestyle/survey-results/daily/2016/05/18/982f0/1

    Sounds like it is out by 0 as its 9% not 90%.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    HYUFD said:

    Yes but his supporters want to hear from him again.

    The problem Biden has is his campaign is all online at the moment, TV ads or press conferences, no rallies or door to door canvassing, fair enough he is applying the rules strictly, Trump however has just held big rallies in Wisconsin, North Carolina, Pennsylvania and Nevada, all key swing states and is firing up his supporters and Trump campaigners are now going door to door to identify their vote to get them out on election day.

    On paper Biden still leads, just as Hillary's did in 2016 but his campaign lacks the energy of the Trump campaign, another similarity of the Hillary campaign with the Biden campaign. Trump may not be Obama but his supporters are fired up as Obama's were in 2012, Biden's campaign is more like that of Romney, his vote is more against the President than with much enthusiasm for him
    If you look at the advertising spending numbers at the moment, Biden is absolutely hammering Trump but it's not leading necessarily to an improved lead. Now that raises a number of questions - is TV advertising effective (Biden's spend is mainly TV whilst Trump is outspending Biden online)? will this spend eventually make a difference (it didn't for Clinton in 2016)?

    I think the enthusiasm point is an entirely fair one. Yes, there are plenty of people who hate Trump and are fired up about him (and you can see that) but that won't be enough to propel Biden to victory. Trump, OTOH, can count on a very enthusiastic base with a number of other voters who may not like him personally but recognise he brings home the bacon and / or fear the consequences of a Biden victory. That should get him over the line.
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    edited September 2020

    I'd like to see some polling for this 90% figure @Pagan2 has

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/lifestyle/survey-results/daily/2016/05/18/982f0/1

    Sounds like it is out by 0 as its 9% not 90%.
    Thanks for this noneoftheabove.
  • Oh well, I guess Philip and Pagan are both on the sauce
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677



    I'm a vegetarian, although I occasionally eat fish.

    That's not being a vegetarian. Do you just identify as one?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,366
    DavidL said:

    Am I missing something or is this not all going to be completely superseded by Elon Musk's satellite array?
    Not explicitly. There is no navigation capability explicitly built into Starlink.

    The paper I mentioned before suggests that rather accurate navigation could be done, simply using the signals from the Starlink satellite constellation. Without cooperation from Starlink..... Simply because the satellites are up there, broadcasting. With cooperation from Starlink, it would be quicker, simpler and more accurate (possibly to the 10s of cm).
  • HYUFD said:

    My sister is vegeterian but she lives in London where being a vegetarian or vegan is pretty standard, however it is not going to win Starmer any votes in the meat eating Red Wall
    I would argue his comments on missing bacon will make him more relatable.

    I don't think he was trying to win votes with this, tbh
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    That poll doesn't say what you claim it does it merely says people don't believe meat is needed with every meal and as far as I know no polling has been done on the question but in general if the subject comes up most people with a diet that includes meat tend to think its an odd way to live.

    If you don't think people who are happy to eat meat tend to think vegetarians are a little odd then try asking some of them
  • Train numbers plummeted 95pc during lockdown and have recovered only to roughly 30pc of pre-Covid levels. Plans for flexible season tickets have been shunted into the sidings by the Treasury, industry insiders said.

    Treasury officials are said to be concerned that three-day season tickets could end any hope of workers returning to the office five days a week, even once a coronavirus vaccine is found. This could leave taxpayers with an even bigger bill to run the railways.

    God help us

    Welcome to the world of the Nationalised Industry. Where the interests of

    - The Treasury
    - Government policy
    - The suppliers/contractors
    - The workers
    - The users

    ....are looked after. In that order.

    2 months to get a telephone was a *feature* of BT.

    By only allowing BT to supply the physical phones, the "right" manufacturer got the job.

    By not employing too many people to install phones, costs were kept down.

    Additionally, by rationing phone installation, *excessive* phone usage was held down. Meaning that vast amounts of money didn't have to be *wasted* on increasing capacity in the network.

    At the same time wages were good, to keep the unions happy, and the hours were.. light.

    All good. Unless you wanted a phone.
    Absolutely. The state can't do anything. Except for when I catch a local bus to the station and the bus is owned by the German State. As I leave I use my phone to switch off my heating which is provided by the French State. At the station the train is run by the German State. I browse the internet on the way to London and order stuff which will be delivered by the French State.

    Nationalised industry can't do shit.
    TBF that's got a bunch of different states in competition with each other (even where the customer is effectively the UK government that picks a franchise operator); The main objection to the old BT model isn't just that it's run by the state, but also if they do a shitty job there's no way to change to a competitor, which in turn makes them more likely to do a shitty job.

    I think even most pro-privatization people wouldn't be that bothered if state-owned companies want to operate in various competitive markets, provided they're not given special treatment over their competitors and they make a reasonable profit to give back to the taxpayer.
  • And doesn't the polling evidence so far indicate the swing to Labour is far higher in the Red Wall than elsewhere
  • Pagan2 said:

    That poll doesn't say what you claim it does it merely says people don't believe meat is needed with every meal and as far as I know no polling has been done on the question but in general if the subject comes up most people with a diet that includes meat tend to think its an odd way to live.

    If you don't think people who are happy to eat meat tend to think vegetarians are a little odd then try asking some of them
    You obviously find numbers confusing.

    90% is different to 9%, see above
  • Pagan is once again pushing his own narrow viewpoint as being representative of everyone else, poor baby
  • twitter.com/RidgeOnSunday/status/1307597422542061568

    What a legend

    What a soft ball question...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137

    And doesn't the polling evidence so far indicate the swing to Labour is far higher in the Red Wall than elsewhere

    No, according to Yougov yesterday Labour is now ahead by a huge 63% to just 24% for the Tories in London but in the North Labour only leads by 49% to 36% and in the Midlands and Wales the Tories still lead by 43% to 41% for Labour

    https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/0jur4htqeh/YouGov Times VI 17 Sep 2020.pdf
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Pagan2 said:

    You think being a vegetarian makes you a legend? That a prospective PM saying eating meat is wrong for the planet is the right thing to do or a vote winner?

    This is worse than him kneeling. Awful, absolutely awful.
    There's nothing wrong with being a vegetarian. He wasn't trying to convince others to be one, he was saying it was very difficult because he misses bacon sandwiches and curry. That's relatable
    90% of the country tend to think vegetarians are a bit wierd. Being thought a bit odd possibly isn't a vote winner
    Citation needed.
    He won't have one.
    Then it is a spurious potential falsehood.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877

    Pagan is once again pushing his own narrow viewpoint as being representative of everyone else, poor baby

    Merely saying I have never met an omnivore yet that doesn't think vegetarians are a bit odd. Yes its anecdote but in the abscence of a poll with the question "Do you think vegetarians are odd?" Then its a moot point either way.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited September 2020
    MrEd said:


    If you look at the advertising spending numbers at the moment, Biden is absolutely hammering Trump but it's not leading necessarily to an improved lead. Now that raises a number of questions - is TV advertising effective (Biden's spend is mainly TV whilst Trump is outspending Biden online)? will this spend eventually make a difference (it didn't for Clinton in 2016)?

    I think we *have* been seeing better Biden performance in swing states recently, at least relative to the national lead. It's probably not promising for Biden if this is caused by advertising, because as the election approaches I'd expect the Trump side to ramp up spending as well.
  • DavidL said:

    Am I missing something or is this not all going to be completely superseded by Elon Musk's satellite array?
    Not explicitly. There is no navigation capability explicitly built into Starlink.

    The paper I mentioned before suggests that rather accurate navigation could be done, simply using the signals from the Starlink satellite constellation. Without cooperation from Starlink..... Simply because the satellites are up there, broadcasting. With cooperation from Starlink, it would be quicker, simpler and more accurate (possibly to the 10s of cm).
    Wouldn't they need super accurate clocks?
    Some dispute on here on that point https://www.reddit.com/r/Starlink/comments/dkxjjt/could_starlink_be_used_for_navigation_gpslike/
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Pagan2 said:

    That poll doesn't say what you claim it does it merely says people don't believe meat is needed with every meal and as far as I know no polling has been done on the question but in general if the subject comes up most people with a diet that includes meat tend to think its an odd way to live.

    If you don't think people who are happy to eat meat tend to think vegetarians are a little odd then try asking some of them
    You obviously find numbers confusing.

    90% is different to 9%, see above
    Priti Patel or Diane Abbott posting as Pagan2?
  • So when bale is in the team, does Spurs best player, "Sonny", have to play out of position?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    Dura_Ace said:

    Still wouldn't vote for the fucker but chapeau to SKS.


    Is that the younger you?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    On thread, can someone explain why winning 0 or 3 can both be more likely than winning 1 or 2. Baffled.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan is once again pushing his own narrow viewpoint as being representative of everyone else, poor baby

    Merely saying I have never met an omnivore yet that doesn't think vegetarians are a bit odd. Yes its anecdote but in the abscence of a poll with the question "Do you think vegetarians are odd?" Then its a moot point either way.
    You have now.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    edited September 2020

    He gave a pretty human response, I can imagine Ed M saying something odd

    Starmer comes over as far more normal than Jeremy "manhole covers" Corbyn or Boris "painting buses on cardboard boxes" Johnson. Pair of weirdos both of them.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    MrEd said:


    If you look at the advertising spending numbers at the moment, Biden is absolutely hammering Trump but it's not leading necessarily to an improved lead. Now that raises a number of questions - is TV advertising effective (Biden's spend is mainly TV whilst Trump is outspending Biden online)? will this spend eventually make a difference (it didn't for Clinton in 2016)?

    I think we *have* been seeing better Biden performance in swing states recently, at least relative to the national lead. It's probably not promising for Biden if this is caused by advertising, because as the election approaches I'd expect the Trump side to ramp up spending as well.
    It's a little bit. Since the beginning of September, in the top battleground states, Biden's lead has gone up 0.8% on average across them. So, there might be some (although it's within the MoE).

    Agree with you re not being promising. It suggests people have concerns with the product.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,411
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan is once again pushing his own narrow viewpoint as being representative of everyone else, poor baby

    Merely saying I have never met an omnivore yet that doesn't think vegetarians are a bit odd. Yes its anecdote but in the abscence of a poll with the question "Do you think vegetarians are odd?" Then its a moot point either way.
    I'm one. I'd be a vegetarian but I don't have the self-discipline. Nor can I be arsed to cook a different meal for the family.
    So I quite admire them actually.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    DavidL said:

    Should we stop it and ask that classes this term be remote? I'm genuinely not sure. These kids need to learn , socialise, get laid, grow up. They have already had their exams wreaked, are we really going to wreak what should be some of the best years of their lives as well?

    Yes we should.

    Here is another question.

    If universities lose the c.10% of their income that comes from student accommodation, how many will go bust?

    That’s the real reason they’re cramming them back in.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    Pagan2 said:

    You think being a vegetarian makes you a legend? That a prospective PM saying eating meat is wrong for the planet is the right thing to do or a vote winner?

    This is worse than him kneeling. Awful, absolutely awful.
    There's nothing wrong with being a vegetarian. He wasn't trying to convince others to be one, he was saying it was very difficult because he misses bacon sandwiches and curry. That's relatable
    90% of the country tend to think vegetarians are a bit wierd. Being thought a bit odd possibly isn't a vote winner
    It's the norm in Remain circles.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Pagan2 said:

    You think being a vegetarian makes you a legend? That a prospective PM saying eating meat is wrong for the planet is the right thing to do or a vote winner?

    This is worse than him kneeling. Awful, absolutely awful.
    There's nothing wrong with being a vegetarian. He wasn't trying to convince others to be one, he was saying it was very difficult because he misses bacon sandwiches and curry. That's relatable
    90% of the country tend to think vegetarians are a bit wierd. Being thought a bit odd possibly isn't a vote winner
    Why is being vegetarian weird?
    I have been a pescetarian since the age of 3.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan is once again pushing his own narrow viewpoint as being representative of everyone else, poor baby

    Merely saying I have never met an omnivore yet that doesn't think vegetarians are a bit odd. Yes its anecdote but in the abscence of a poll with the question "Do you think vegetarians are odd?" Then its a moot point either way.
    I'm one. I'd be a vegetarian but I don't have the self-discipline. Nor can I be arsed to cook a different meal for the family.
    So I quite admire them actually.
    I wasn't claiming people think its wrong, merely odd. Just as I think some of my meat eating friends diets are distinctly odd. As usual though CHB missed my point which was that its not the vote winner he seems to assume in my view
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    justin124 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    You think being a vegetarian makes you a legend? That a prospective PM saying eating meat is wrong for the planet is the right thing to do or a vote winner?

    This is worse than him kneeling. Awful, absolutely awful.
    There's nothing wrong with being a vegetarian. He wasn't trying to convince others to be one, he was saying it was very difficult because he misses bacon sandwiches and curry. That's relatable
    90% of the country tend to think vegetarians are a bit wierd. Being thought a bit odd possibly isn't a vote winner
    Why is being vegetarian weird?
    I have been a pescetarian since the age of 3.
    I’m not altogether sure that moves the conversation forward, Justin.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    justin124 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    You think being a vegetarian makes you a legend? That a prospective PM saying eating meat is wrong for the planet is the right thing to do or a vote winner?

    This is worse than him kneeling. Awful, absolutely awful.
    There's nothing wrong with being a vegetarian. He wasn't trying to convince others to be one, he was saying it was very difficult because he misses bacon sandwiches and curry. That's relatable
    90% of the country tend to think vegetarians are a bit wierd. Being thought a bit odd possibly isn't a vote winner
    Why is being vegetarian weird?
    I have been a pescetarian since the age of 3.
    QED
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    So when bale is in the team, does Spurs best player, "Sonny", have to play out of position?

    Spurs obviously just needed the thought of Bale.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    You think being a vegetarian makes you a legend? That a prospective PM saying eating meat is wrong for the planet is the right thing to do or a vote winner?

    This is worse than him kneeling. Awful, absolutely awful.
    There's nothing wrong with being a vegetarian. He wasn't trying to convince others to be one, he was saying it was very difficult because he misses bacon sandwiches and curry. That's relatable
    90% of the country tend to think vegetarians are a bit wierd. Being thought a bit odd possibly isn't a vote winner
    Why is being vegetarian weird?
    People are concerned they have insufficient steak in society.
    There are minimum standards which they simply fail to meat.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    You think being a vegetarian makes you a legend? That a prospective PM saying eating meat is wrong for the planet is the right thing to do or a vote winner?

    This is worse than him kneeling. Awful, absolutely awful.
    There's nothing wrong with being a vegetarian. He wasn't trying to convince others to be one, he was saying it was very difficult because he misses bacon sandwiches and curry. That's relatable
    90% of the country tend to think vegetarians are a bit wierd. Being thought a bit odd possibly isn't a vote winner
    Why is being vegetarian weird?
    I have been a pescetarian since the age of 3.
    I’m not altogether sure that moves the conversation forward, Justin.
    Information only - have never liked meat or poultry.
  • Pagan2 said:

    Pagan is once again pushing his own narrow viewpoint as being representative of everyone else, poor baby

    Merely saying I have never met an omnivore yet that doesn't think vegetarians are a bit odd. Yes its anecdote but in the abscence of a poll with the question "Do you think vegetarians are odd?" Then its a moot point either way.
    You said 90% of people find vegetarians odd.

    Evidence was provided this was nonsense.

    You then changed your mind instead of being a man and admitting you got it wrong and said it was actually what you thought.

    You're an utter embarrassment.
  • kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    You think being a vegetarian makes you a legend? That a prospective PM saying eating meat is wrong for the planet is the right thing to do or a vote winner?

    This is worse than him kneeling. Awful, absolutely awful.
    There's nothing wrong with being a vegetarian. He wasn't trying to convince others to be one, he was saying it was very difficult because he misses bacon sandwiches and curry. That's relatable
    90% of the country tend to think vegetarians are a bit wierd. Being thought a bit odd possibly isn't a vote winner
    It's the norm in Remain circles.
    Culture war stuff...

    I thought these days it was Vegan's that was tarred with the bit odd brush, because in my experience the loudest about their Veganism normally are quite insufferable... everything in their life is about living the Vegan life and that even vegetarians are treated like admitting you once voted Tory to a group of Corbynites.
  • I must be the only PBer in the PB fantasy league to have not picked Son.

    Some of you jammy gits also have Kane in your team, as captain.
  • ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    You think being a vegetarian makes you a legend? That a prospective PM saying eating meat is wrong for the planet is the right thing to do or a vote winner?

    This is worse than him kneeling. Awful, absolutely awful.
    There's nothing wrong with being a vegetarian. He wasn't trying to convince others to be one, he was saying it was very difficult because he misses bacon sandwiches and curry. That's relatable
    90% of the country tend to think vegetarians are a bit wierd. Being thought a bit odd possibly isn't a vote winner
    Why is being vegetarian weird?
    People are concerned they have insufficient steak in society.
    That gives a whole new meaning to Tory cuts.
  • Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan is once again pushing his own narrow viewpoint as being representative of everyone else, poor baby

    Merely saying I have never met an omnivore yet that doesn't think vegetarians are a bit odd. Yes its anecdote but in the abscence of a poll with the question "Do you think vegetarians are odd?" Then its a moot point either way.
    I'm one. I'd be a vegetarian but I don't have the self-discipline. Nor can I be arsed to cook a different meal for the family.
    So I quite admire them actually.
    I wasn't claiming people think its wrong, merely odd. Just as I think some of my meat eating friends diets are distinctly odd. As usual though CHB missed my point which was that its not the vote winner he seems to assume in my view
    You said 90% of people find vegetarians odd.

    Evidence was provided this was nonsense.

    You then changed your mind instead of being a man and admitting you got it wrong and said it was actually what you thought.

    You're an utter embarrassment.

    You clearly have difficulties with numbers. 90% is not the same as 9%.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,366

    DavidL said:

    Am I missing something or is this not all going to be completely superseded by Elon Musk's satellite array?
    Not explicitly. There is no navigation capability explicitly built into Starlink.

    The paper I mentioned before suggests that rather accurate navigation could be done, simply using the signals from the Starlink satellite constellation. Without cooperation from Starlink..... Simply because the satellites are up there, broadcasting. With cooperation from Starlink, it would be quicker, simpler and more accurate (possibly to the 10s of cm).
    Wouldn't they need super accurate clocks?
    Some dispute on here on that point https://www.reddit.com/r/Starlink/comments/dkxjjt/could_starlink_be_used_for_navigation_gpslike/
    For the un-cooperative system, the paper argues that knowledge of satellite position can get you a surprisingly good fix. But would require a phased army antenna capable of tracking multiple Starlink stats at once. A hacked Starlink terminal might well do the job.

    For a simple, hand held device (such as your phone) co-operation with the constellation would probably be required. There are clocks on all the Starlink satellites. Not maser grade but quite good - the question about drift and re-sync are complex, but suggest that the very large number of satellites in the full constellation will even out errors.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    DavidL said:

    Am I missing something or is this not all going to be completely superseded by Elon Musk's satellite array?
    Not explicitly. There is no navigation capability explicitly built into Starlink.

    The paper I mentioned before suggests that rather accurate navigation could be done, simply using the signals from the Starlink satellite constellation. Without cooperation from Starlink..... Simply because the satellites are up there, broadcasting. With cooperation from Starlink, it would be quicker, simpler and more accurate (possibly to the 10s of cm).
    Wouldn't they need super accurate clocks?
    Some dispute on here on that point https://www.reddit.com/r/Starlink/comments/dkxjjt/could_starlink_be_used_for_navigation_gpslike/
    It's also useless for military purposes due to vulnerability to jamming/spoofing and an inability to do localised signal boosts via pseudolites.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    You think being a vegetarian makes you a legend? That a prospective PM saying eating meat is wrong for the planet is the right thing to do or a vote winner?

    This is worse than him kneeling. Awful, absolutely awful.
    There's nothing wrong with being a vegetarian. He wasn't trying to convince others to be one, he was saying it was very difficult because he misses bacon sandwiches and curry. That's relatable
    90% of the country tend to think vegetarians are a bit wierd. Being thought a bit odd possibly isn't a vote winner
    Why is being vegetarian weird?
    People are concerned they have insufficient steak in society.
    There are minimum standards which they simply fail to meat.
    Well, you clearly have a beef with them.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Well I think we have our answer on deflections and handballs. They are going to be given.
  • Philip, do you think climate change is real?

    Of course!

    I think it is a problem that was created by our technologies and it is a problem we should solve with science and technology too.

    It is not a problem created by the eating of meat which humanity has done since we evolved from other mammals that also ate meat..
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    You think being a vegetarian makes you a legend? That a prospective PM saying eating meat is wrong for the planet is the right thing to do or a vote winner?

    This is worse than him kneeling. Awful, absolutely awful.
    There's nothing wrong with being a vegetarian. He wasn't trying to convince others to be one, he was saying it was very difficult because he misses bacon sandwiches and curry. That's relatable
    90% of the country tend to think vegetarians are a bit wierd. Being thought a bit odd possibly isn't a vote winner
    Why is being vegetarian weird?
    People are concerned they have insufficient steak in society.
    Wow.

    I wrote a post that both @BluestBlue and @CorrectHorseBattery liked.

    That’s incredible.

    Should I apply to the UN as a mediator?
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    You think being a vegetarian makes you a legend? That a prospective PM saying eating meat is wrong for the planet is the right thing to do or a vote winner?

    This is worse than him kneeling. Awful, absolutely awful.
    There's nothing wrong with being a vegetarian. He wasn't trying to convince others to be one, he was saying it was very difficult because he misses bacon sandwiches and curry. That's relatable
    90% of the country tend to think vegetarians are a bit wierd. Being thought a bit odd possibly isn't a vote winner
    Why is being vegetarian weird?
    People are concerned they have insufficient steak in society.
    That gives a whole new meaning to Tory cuts.
    I thought we sorted out the Rump Parliament last year?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,103
    edited September 2020

    I must be the only PBer in the PB fantasy league to have not picked Son.

    Some of you jammy gits also have Kane in your team, as captain.

    Call yourself a graduate of the world's best university....total Richard Burgon move.
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    You think being a vegetarian makes you a legend? That a prospective PM saying eating meat is wrong for the planet is the right thing to do or a vote winner?

    This is worse than him kneeling. Awful, absolutely awful.
    There's nothing wrong with being a vegetarian. He wasn't trying to convince others to be one, he was saying it was very difficult because he misses bacon sandwiches and curry. That's relatable
    90% of the country tend to think vegetarians are a bit wierd. Being thought a bit odd possibly isn't a vote winner
    Why is being vegetarian weird?
    People are concerned they have insufficient steak in society.
    Wow.

    I wrote a post that both @BluestBlue and @CorrectHorseBattery liked.

    That’s incredible.

    Should I apply to the UN as a mediator?
    You definitely are a cut above the rest
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan is once again pushing his own narrow viewpoint as being representative of everyone else, poor baby

    Merely saying I have never met an omnivore yet that doesn't think vegetarians are a bit odd. Yes its anecdote but in the abscence of a poll with the question "Do you think vegetarians are odd?" Then its a moot point either way.
    I'm one. I'd be a vegetarian but I don't have the self-discipline. Nor can I be arsed to cook a different meal for the family.
    So I quite admire them actually.
    I wasn't claiming people think its wrong, merely odd. Just as I think some of my meat eating friends diets are distinctly odd. As usual though CHB missed my point which was that its not the vote winner he seems to assume in my view
    You said 90% of people find vegetarians odd.

    Evidence was provided this was nonsense.

    You then changed your mind instead of being a man and admitting you got it wrong and said it was actually what you thought.

    You're an utter embarrassment.

    You clearly have difficulties with numbers. 90% is not the same as 9%.
    The poll you provided said nothing of the sort, it said people didn't feel meat was necessary with every meal. That is a lot different to being a vegetarian. I don't eat meat with every meal that doesn't mean I am a vegetarian or stop me thinking they are a bit odd.

    Once again you ignore the message however which is it's not a vote winner for Starmer like you think it is.
  • Philip, do you think climate change is real?

    Of course!

    I think it is a problem that was created by our technologies and it is a problem we should solve with science and technology too.

    It is not a problem created by the eating of meat which humanity has done since we evolved from other mammals that also ate meat..
    So you don't think our production of meat contributes to climate change
  • Train numbers plummeted 95pc during lockdown and have recovered only to roughly 30pc of pre-Covid levels. Plans for flexible season tickets have been shunted into the sidings by the Treasury, industry insiders said.

    Treasury officials are said to be concerned that three-day season tickets could end any hope of workers returning to the office five days a week, even once a coronavirus vaccine is found. This could leave taxpayers with an even bigger bill to run the railways.

    God help us

    Welcome to the world of the Nationalised Industry. Where the interests of

    - The Treasury
    - Government policy
    - The suppliers/contractors
    - The workers
    - The users

    ....are looked after. In that order.

    2 months to get a telephone was a *feature* of BT.

    By only allowing BT to supply the physical phones, the "right" manufacturer got the job.

    By not employing too many people to install phones, costs were kept down.

    Additionally, by rationing phone installation, *excessive* phone usage was held down. Meaning that vast amounts of money didn't have to be *wasted* on increasing capacity in the network.

    At the same time wages were good, to keep the unions happy, and the hours were.. light.

    All good. Unless you wanted a phone.
    Absolutely. The state can't do anything. Except for when I catch a local bus to the station and the bus is owned by the German State. As I leave I use my phone to switch off my heating which is provided by the French State. At the station the train is run by the German State. I browse the internet on the way to London and order stuff which will be delivered by the French State.

    Nationalised industry can't do shit.
    TBF that's got a bunch of different states in competition with each other (even where the customer is effectively the UK government that picks a franchise operator); The main objection to the old BT model isn't just that it's run by the state, but also if they do a shitty job there's no way to change to a competitor, which in turn makes them more likely to do a shitty job.

    I think even most pro-privatization people wouldn't be that bothered if state-owned companies want to operate in various competitive markets, provided they're not given special treatment over their competitors and they make a reasonable profit to give back to the taxpayer.
    So the issue isn't one of ownership, its one of monopoly and a lack of regulation. People bleat on about nationalised BT taking months to install a line. That's better than privatised BT Openreach who were happy to install phone lines when my estate was built in 2005/6 but refused to upgrade the local cabinet to fibre because our estate didn't exist on their 2004 demand survey. Only when Virgin media came to cable the area could we have anything faster than 4MB - the private monopoly simply refused to engage.

    All the examples I gave are state owned enterprises. The German State. Owns a railway company. Who operate commercially. And successfully run all my local buses. And half the trains.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    You think being a vegetarian makes you a legend? That a prospective PM saying eating meat is wrong for the planet is the right thing to do or a vote winner?

    This is worse than him kneeling. Awful, absolutely awful.
    There's nothing wrong with being a vegetarian. He wasn't trying to convince others to be one, he was saying it was very difficult because he misses bacon sandwiches and curry. That's relatable
    90% of the country tend to think vegetarians are a bit wierd. Being thought a bit odd possibly isn't a vote winner
    Why is being vegetarian weird?
    People are concerned they have insufficient steak in society.
    Wow.

    I wrote a post that both @BluestBlue and @CorrectHorseBattery liked.

    That’s incredible.

    Should I apply to the UN as a mediator?
    You definitely are a cut above the rest
    Boom boom.

    But I think I’m just rasher in my posting.
  • I must be the only PBer in the PB fantasy league to have not picked Son.

    Some of you jammy gits also have Kane in your team, as captain.

    Call yourself a graduate of the world's best university....total Richard Burgon move.
    I'm still leading the PB fantasy football league, have led all season.
  • Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan is once again pushing his own narrow viewpoint as being representative of everyone else, poor baby

    Merely saying I have never met an omnivore yet that doesn't think vegetarians are a bit odd. Yes its anecdote but in the abscence of a poll with the question "Do you think vegetarians are odd?" Then its a moot point either way.
    I'm one. I'd be a vegetarian but I don't have the self-discipline. Nor can I be arsed to cook a different meal for the family.
    So I quite admire them actually.
    I wasn't claiming people think its wrong, merely odd. Just as I think some of my meat eating friends diets are distinctly odd. As usual though CHB missed my point which was that its not the vote winner he seems to assume in my view
    You said 90% of people find vegetarians odd.

    Evidence was provided this was nonsense.

    You then changed your mind instead of being a man and admitting you got it wrong and said it was actually what you thought.

    You're an utter embarrassment.

    You clearly have difficulties with numbers. 90% is not the same as 9%.
    The poll you provided said nothing of the sort, it said people didn't feel meat was necessary with every meal. That is a lot different to being a vegetarian. I don't eat meat with every meal that doesn't mean I am a vegetarian or stop me thinking they are a bit odd.

    Once again you ignore the message however which is it's not a vote winner for Starmer like you think it is.
    Another poll was provided which said 9% of people thought it was unacceptable.

    It's not my fault you clearly haven't passed GCSE English, nor GCSE Maths. Your comprehension skills are sorely lacking.

    I never claimed it was a vote winner, I said it makes him more relatable to say he misses bacon and chicken curry. I think it does.

    I would be very willing to tutor you in my spare time but unfortunately I can't remove stupidity
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898
    Afternoon all :)

    I can't imagine whether someone is a vegetarian or not makes the slightest difference as to whether they are worthy to be Prime Minister. Seriously - I note one of Starmer's most prominent critics on this is also one of the loudest supporters of the Prime Minister so that tells you all you need to know.

    I'm still staggered at this notion that a middle-aged electrician from Orpington and his mates have stumbled on the greatest deception of the modern age - like something out of Chitty Chitty Bang, thousands of children are being kept prisoner in tunnels under London.

    Well, I've been a prisoner in a tunnel in London but fortunately the power came back on and the tube started moving after a couple of minutes.

    What was that other movie, John Carpenter's "They Live" where aliens were in charge and using subliminal advertising to keep us all in line. I've never heard Donald Trump reference the tunnels under London where the children are - sorry, which children, where from and above all why?

    What lockdown did cause (I'm sure I saw on this on the Internet so it must be true) was a fall off in global birth rates so clearly Covid-19 is a weapon designed to cause mass sterility (apparently). Designed by the Illuminati (of course), it's a way of covertly reducing human population (might be easier than nuclear war). Once we are down to manageable levels, the secret legions of One World Government will emerge and we will all have to yield to a single authority (bit like everyone having the same phone).
  • I though the humanising element was the fact he said he missed bacon sandwiches and chicken curry, seemed relatable to me.

    I couldn't give a toss if you're a vegetarian or not, odd the right believe in personal liberty only when it's something they agree with.

    I have no qualms with him being a vegetarian. It is the "for the planet" bit I object to.

    People starting to say that we should all become vegetarians "for the planet" can f**k right off. If you don't want to eat bacon then fine, I couldn't care less. If he'd said he is a vegetarian but its a personal choice and he doesn't expect others to be then I would not object, but instead he banged on about it being good for the planet.

    People not eating meat I don't care about, but if you start to suggest that I shouldn't then that's where I have a problem.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    edited September 2020
    What's it compared to the GE though, when Boris got ill the British public pretty much had him down as a covid martyr. The Tories polled 55% in one Opinium !
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan is once again pushing his own narrow viewpoint as being representative of everyone else, poor baby

    Merely saying I have never met an omnivore yet that doesn't think vegetarians are a bit odd. Yes its anecdote but in the abscence of a poll with the question "Do you think vegetarians are odd?" Then its a moot point either way.
    I'm one. I'd be a vegetarian but I don't have the self-discipline. Nor can I be arsed to cook a different meal for the family.
    So I quite admire them actually.
    I wasn't claiming people think its wrong, merely odd. Just as I think some of my meat eating friends diets are distinctly odd. As usual though CHB missed my point which was that its not the vote winner he seems to assume in my view
    You said 90% of people find vegetarians odd.

    Evidence was provided this was nonsense.

    You then changed your mind instead of being a man and admitting you got it wrong and said it was actually what you thought.

    You're an utter embarrassment.

    You clearly have difficulties with numbers. 90% is not the same as 9%.
    The poll you provided said nothing of the sort, it said people didn't feel meat was necessary with every meal. That is a lot different to being a vegetarian. I don't eat meat with every meal that doesn't mean I am a vegetarian or stop me thinking they are a bit odd.

    Once again you ignore the message however which is it's not a vote winner for Starmer like you think it is.
    Another poll was provided which said 9% of people thought it was unacceptable.

    It's not my fault you clearly haven't passed GCSE English, nor GCSE Maths. Your comprehension skills are sorely lacking.

    I never claimed it was a vote winner, I said it makes him more relatable to say he misses bacon and chicken curry. I think it does.

    I would be very willing to tutor you in my spare time but unfortunately I can't remove stupidity
    Again thinking it is unacceptable is not the same as finding it odd. I don't regard vegetarianism as unacceptable I just think its a strange way to eat. Unacceptable is more the equivalent of it should be banned
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    MrEd said:


    If you look at the advertising spending numbers at the moment, Biden is absolutely hammering Trump but it's not leading necessarily to an improved lead. Now that raises a number of questions - is TV advertising effective (Biden's spend is mainly TV whilst Trump is outspending Biden online)? will this spend eventually make a difference (it didn't for Clinton in 2016)?

    I think we *have* been seeing better Biden performance in swing states recently, at least relative to the national lead. It's probably not promising for Biden if this is caused by advertising, because as the election approaches I'd expect the Trump side to ramp up spending as well.
    Key point about Bloomberg's 100 million for Florida.

    Bloomberg spent big backing Dems in 2018 as well at it all came in a final 10 days advertising blitz. Bloomberg's team believes that what generates the largest effect at the polls.
  • I though the humanising element was the fact he said he missed bacon sandwiches and chicken curry, seemed relatable to me.

    I couldn't give a toss if you're a vegetarian or not, odd the right believe in personal liberty only when it's something they agree with.

    I have no qualms with him being a vegetarian. It is the "for the planet" bit I object to.

    People starting to say that we should all become vegetarians "for the planet" can f**k right off. If you don't want to eat bacon then fine, I couldn't care less. If he'd said he is a vegetarian but its a personal choice and he doesn't expect others to be then I would not object, but instead he banged on about it being good for the planet.

    People not eating meat I don't care about, but if you start to suggest that I shouldn't then that's where I have a problem.
    When did Starmer say you or anyone else should become a vegetarian?

    He said he'd become one for his body and the planet. That's a decision he took.

    You keep completely missing the point, the humanising element was missing chicken curry and bacon!
  • Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan is once again pushing his own narrow viewpoint as being representative of everyone else, poor baby

    Merely saying I have never met an omnivore yet that doesn't think vegetarians are a bit odd. Yes its anecdote but in the abscence of a poll with the question "Do you think vegetarians are odd?" Then its a moot point either way.
    I'm one. I'd be a vegetarian but I don't have the self-discipline. Nor can I be arsed to cook a different meal for the family.
    So I quite admire them actually.
    I wasn't claiming people think its wrong, merely odd. Just as I think some of my meat eating friends diets are distinctly odd. As usual though CHB missed my point which was that its not the vote winner he seems to assume in my view
    You said 90% of people find vegetarians odd.

    Evidence was provided this was nonsense.

    You then changed your mind instead of being a man and admitting you got it wrong and said it was actually what you thought.

    You're an utter embarrassment.

    You clearly have difficulties with numbers. 90% is not the same as 9%.
    The poll you provided said nothing of the sort, it said people didn't feel meat was necessary with every meal. That is a lot different to being a vegetarian. I don't eat meat with every meal that doesn't mean I am a vegetarian or stop me thinking they are a bit odd.

    Once again you ignore the message however which is it's not a vote winner for Starmer like you think it is.
    Another poll was provided which said 9% of people thought it was unacceptable.

    It's not my fault you clearly haven't passed GCSE English, nor GCSE Maths. Your comprehension skills are sorely lacking.

    I never claimed it was a vote winner, I said it makes him more relatable to say he misses bacon and chicken curry. I think it does.

    I would be very willing to tutor you in my spare time but unfortunately I can't remove stupidity
    Again thinking it is unacceptable is not the same as finding it odd. I don't regard vegetarianism as unacceptable I just think its a strange way to eat. Unacceptable is more the equivalent of it should be banned
    Why do you think it's a strange way to eat?
  • What a shambles Southampton are.
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    You think being a vegetarian makes you a legend? That a prospective PM saying eating meat is wrong for the planet is the right thing to do or a vote winner?

    This is worse than him kneeling. Awful, absolutely awful.
    There's nothing wrong with being a vegetarian. He wasn't trying to convince others to be one, he was saying it was very difficult because he misses bacon sandwiches and curry. That's relatable
    90% of the country tend to think vegetarians are a bit wierd. Being thought a bit odd possibly isn't a vote winner
    Why is being vegetarian weird?
    People are concerned they have insufficient steak in society.
    Wow.

    I wrote a post that both @BluestBlue and @CorrectHorseBattery liked.

    That’s incredible.

    Should I apply to the UN as a mediator?
    You definitely are a cut above the rest
    Boom boom.

    But I think I’m just rasher in my posting.
    I think you have butchered your chances with that admission
  • Train numbers plummeted 95pc during lockdown and have recovered only to roughly 30pc of pre-Covid levels. Plans for flexible season tickets have been shunted into the sidings by the Treasury, industry insiders said.

    Treasury officials are said to be concerned that three-day season tickets could end any hope of workers returning to the office five days a week, even once a coronavirus vaccine is found. This could leave taxpayers with an even bigger bill to run the railways.

    God help us

    Welcome to the world of the Nationalised Industry. Where the interests of

    - The Treasury
    - Government policy
    - The suppliers/contractors
    - The workers
    - The users

    ....are looked after. In that order.

    2 months to get a telephone was a *feature* of BT.

    By only allowing BT to supply the physical phones, the "right" manufacturer got the job.

    By not employing too many people to install phones, costs were kept down.

    Additionally, by rationing phone installation, *excessive* phone usage was held down. Meaning that vast amounts of money didn't have to be *wasted* on increasing capacity in the network.

    At the same time wages were good, to keep the unions happy, and the hours were.. light.

    All good. Unless you wanted a phone.
    Absolutely. The state can't do anything. Except for when I catch a local bus to the station and the bus is owned by the German State. As I leave I use my phone to switch off my heating which is provided by the French State. At the station the train is run by the German State. I browse the internet on the way to London and order stuff which will be delivered by the French State.

    Nationalised industry can't do shit.
    That is not what I said. Nationalised industries simply have a different set of priorities to the private owned industries. The phenomenon of Producer Interest is a long studied one.

    Unless you make strenuous efforts to deal with this, you get all the joys of monopolies multiplied by the joys of absolute protection from comeback.
    No, thats literally what you said. Its not the ownership of BT that was the issue, simply its focus. And as I have responsed to a different post privatised BT Openreach simply refused to engage with us on fibre. Carried out a demand survey in 2004, decided the answer was no. Estate built 2005/6. Installs loads of phone lines but insists the houses aren't there for fibre purposes. Can you complain? no - they are a monopoly.

    Every other major European nation gets this. State owned commercial organisations. Deutsche Bahn is so successful that it now runs a significant proportion of our trains. We could have done the same - remember that BR's Intercity sector was at the time of privatisation the only profitable long distance rail operator *in the world*. Think what it could have become had it not been sawed up and transformed into loss-making franchises by dogmatic Tories?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    I can't imagine whether someone is a vegetarian or not makes the slightest difference as to whether they are worthy to be Prime Minister. Seriously - I note one of Starmer's most prominent critics on this is also one of the loudest supporters of the Prime Minister so that tells you all you need to know.

    I'm still staggered at this notion that a middle-aged electrician from Orpington and his mates have stumbled on the greatest deception of the modern age - like something out of Chitty Chitty Bang, thousands of children are being kept prisoner in tunnels under London.

    Well, I've been a prisoner in a tunnel in London but fortunately the power came back on and the tube started moving after a couple of minutes.

    What was that other movie, John Carpenter's "They Live" where aliens were in charge and using subliminal advertising to keep us all in line. I've never heard Donald Trump reference the tunnels under London where the children are - sorry, which children, where from and above all why?

    What lockdown did cause (I'm sure I saw on this on the Internet so it must be true) was a fall off in global birth rates so clearly Covid-19 is a weapon designed to cause mass sterility (apparently). Designed by the Illuminati (of course), it's a way of covertly reducing human population (might be easier than nuclear war). Once we are down to manageable levels, the secret legions of One World Government will emerge and we will all have to yield to a single authority (bit like everyone having the same phone).

    If you are referring to me I do not support Boris in the least and didn't vote conservative in 2019 either.
  • The Government briefing today seems to suggest inevitably lockdown 2.0 is in place to be announced this week.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    I must be the only PBer in the PB fantasy league to have not picked Son.

    Some of you jammy gits also have Kane in your team, as captain.

    The only TOT player I have is Doherty!

    Silver lining, Ings as my captain.
This discussion has been closed.