Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » New YouGov pollings finds that a majority of those sampled thi

135

Comments

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464

    It's a grim day in the virus news tbh. The Daily Express has done its valiant best to cheerlead a national Boris orgasm but facts have swept all unfettered optimism aside.

    We're imprisoned by this virus.

    Until there's a vaccine.

    Yes; a New Normal.
    Some of which will be virtual.
    My wife and I are wondering if this coming Christmas will be the first we'll EVER have spent as 'just the two of us', after 58 years of marriage.
    Thinking somewhat negatively; wonder if Zoom and Teams will be able to cope with all the traffic there will be that day!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    I see Los Angeles is banning Halloween this year. So it's not all bad ;)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    It's a grim day in the virus news tbh. The Daily Express has done its valiant best to cheerlead a national Boris orgasm but facts have swept all unfettered optimism aside.

    We're imprisoned by this virus.

    Until there's a vaccine.

    Yes; a New Normal.
    Some of which will be virtual.
    My wife and I are wondering if this coming Christmas will be the first we'll EVER have spent as 'just the two of us', after 58 years of marriage.
    Thinking somewhat negatively; wonder if Zoom and Teams will be able to cope with all the traffic there will be that day!
    Those large turkeys are going to be hard to shift...
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    It's a grim day in the virus news tbh. The Daily Express has done its valiant best to cheerlead a national Boris orgasm but facts have swept all unfettered optimism aside.

    We're imprisoned by this virus.

    Until there's a vaccine.

    The Spanish experience over the summer has made that abundantly clear As I and others pointed out earlier. The 'deniers' have fuelled complacency among the young who will gradually pass it on to the more vulnerable - hospitalisations and deaths will inevitably follow unless measures of these sorts are rigorously applied. I remain perplexed at the reluctance of the British to wear masks more generally. They are not pleasant but they do protect the wearer to a dgree and more importantly limit the degree to which carriers spread it to others.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    IanB2 said:

    It's a grim day in the virus news tbh. The Daily Express has done its valiant best to cheerlead a national Boris orgasm but facts have swept all unfettered optimism aside.

    We're imprisoned by this virus.

    Until there's a vaccine.

    Yes; a New Normal.
    Some of which will be virtual.
    My wife and I are wondering if this coming Christmas will be the first we'll EVER have spent as 'just the two of us', after 58 years of marriage.
    Thinking somewhat negatively; wonder if Zoom and Teams will be able to cope with all the traffic there will be that day!
    Those large turkeys are going to be hard to shift...
    No - they'll just need more imagination wrt leftovers.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464
    IanB2 said:

    It's a grim day in the virus news tbh. The Daily Express has done its valiant best to cheerlead a national Boris orgasm but facts have swept all unfettered optimism aside.

    We're imprisoned by this virus.

    Until there's a vaccine.

    Yes; a New Normal.
    Some of which will be virtual.
    My wife and I are wondering if this coming Christmas will be the first we'll EVER have spent as 'just the two of us', after 58 years of marriage.
    Thinking somewhat negatively; wonder if Zoom and Teams will be able to cope with all the traffic there will be that day!
    Those large turkeys are going to be hard to shift...
    Especially the one in Downing Street. Sadly!
  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    Alistair said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Good news: 20 million people have recovered from Covid-19.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    It is the ones that didn't that worry me.
    A week ago the figure was 18.4 million. 1.6 million recoveries in 7 days is pretty encouraging. Also the percentage of recoveries is rising all the time.
    In Houston over the last two months the hospital fatality rate has gone from 6% overall to 10.5%

    A quite astonishing rise
    German data suggests their death rate is declining.

    https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/declining-covid-19-case-fatality-rates-across-all-ages-analysis-of-german-data/
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    It's a grim day in the virus news tbh. The Daily Express has done its valiant best to cheerlead a national Boris orgasm but facts have swept all unfettered optimism aside.

    We're imprisoned by this virus.

    Until there's a vaccine.

    I thought yesterday's press conference was a new high point for the Boris Johnson bizarre. It had been all going so well.

    Johnson was clearly reluctant to purvey the bad news that our liberties were again to be reduced, so he couched his message in apology and positivity. Then suddenly, along came the "moonshot". An Arthur C. Clarke style fantasy cocktail of fact, fiction and science fiction, that even by Johnson's earlier work was fantastical in the extreme.
  • LadyG said:

    HYUFD said:

    LadyG said:

    Whilst I am sure she is genuine and probably also correct on the substantive issue, she is talking bull with that last comment about the GFA being treasured by the American people. The vast majority will ever even have heard of the GFA let alone have an opinion on it.

    This is a matter purely for political geeks. Unfortunately she is absolutely right that those geeks are sitting in Congress, do understand the issues and will be extremely pissed by the actions of the UK in reneging on an international treaty - particularly one involving Ireland.
    Fuck em. In the end we can say to the USA - is Ireland that important you would sacrifice you trading/military/intel/cultural relations with the UK, for a shamrock?

    If they say Yes, then let them Go Fish in the Shannon. So be it. We leave NATO, Five Eyes, and the rest. With all that means for the USA.

    If not, then let them be silent, on this.

    It's time for Britain to assume its rightful place in the world, no higher than it should be, but no lower, either. We are a major yet secondary power, we are entitled to our independence. The Yanks can do one, if they seek to bully us,
    Trump I doubt could give a toss about the GFA and he gets on personally with Boris and hates the EU. So if he is re elected it will not be a great issue on his side.

    Congress however is a different matter, Pelosi will certainly veto any trade deal which does not protect the GFA and even if the GOP regained Congress plenty of GOP Congressmen would object too. Biden winning the presidency and the Democrats holding the House means any US and UK FTA is dead in the water from January, the US will focus on an EU FTA instead. Biden's mother had Irish heritage too.

    In reality of course Boris simply wants no border in the Irish Sea to match no border in Ireland but the Democrats in particular seem to think not having a border in the Irish Sea breaches the GFA
    Who cares? Really. Who gives a tiny fucklet?

    There is zero evidence a US/UK FTA will happen anytime soon anyway. Right now both sides can claim a trade surplus (as DavidL says). So it doesn't matter. After this confected row, the Irish will be publicly happy that America has "defended" the Old Country, America and the UK can look at the stats and quietly conclude that Sod all has changed anyway.

    Status quo ante. This is all posturing. But if America - a fast declining, politically roiled ex-hegemon which will soon need its friends - REALLY wants to antagonise the UK, one of its best and most important friends, then so be it.

    Fact is, America is no longer the unipolar power which can blithely afford to alienate anyone significant.
    I can definitely think of another country that can even less afford to alienate anyone significant, and yet...
  • Andy_JS said:

    "The licence fee is “morally on the way out” and the BBC should be required to make much of its money through optional subscriptions, the chairman of the culture select committee said.

    Julian Knight, the Conservative MP, said the corporation’s sprawling size had done lasting damage to the media industry, arguing that commercial publishers could not compete with the “behemoth” BBC website." (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/bbc-licence-fee-on-the-way-out-says-senior-mp-8cb2vp5cc

    They badly screwed up not making iPlayer a subscription service. It could have been a globally-accessed sub service like Netflix. A terrible, terrible, terrible error of judgement.
    The Conservative MP is, like many, explicitly calling for the licence fee to be ended in order to damage the BBC. He says this is necessary in order for commercial rivals to succeed. He is quoted in The Times, not unrelated to Sky, not unrelated to Times Radio. Funny that.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Scott_xP said:
    They went Scotch more recently than Wales went English, so I don't see why they don't at least have a serious claim. And if they are worried about going it alone they can always put "revert to Norway" on the ballot paper.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,605

    Andy_JS said:

    "The licence fee is “morally on the way out” and the BBC should be required to make much of its money through optional subscriptions, the chairman of the culture select committee said.

    Julian Knight, the Conservative MP, said the corporation’s sprawling size had done lasting damage to the media industry, arguing that commercial publishers could not compete with the “behemoth” BBC website." (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/bbc-licence-fee-on-the-way-out-says-senior-mp-8cb2vp5cc

    They badly screwed up not making iPlayer a subscription service. It could have been a globally-accessed sub service like Netflix. A terrible, terrible, terrible error of judgement.
    The BBC is possibly the worst exmple of unimaginative management you could ever come up with. They started out with a hugely respected brand. If ony they had grasped that they could have turned that into the world brand in news and entertainment.
  • Jonathan said:

    The government has perfected the footshot rather than the moonshot. What could possibly go wrong this time.

    The government's plans are a combination of footshot and moonshine so aptly named.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
    Jonathan said:

    He believes his own bullshit and blames us when things don’t work out. If only we were more optimistic and believed in him more things would be fine. It’s our lack of faith that let’s us down.

    Sadly rhetoric, spin and bluster has proven to be ineffective against viruses. Who knew. 🤷‍♂️ Boris hasn’t got that yet.

    He’s quite dangerous really.

    This is exactly the defense Trump used when asked why he downplayed the virus.

    "It's my job to be optimistic"

    No, it isn't. It's your job to be competent.

    Twat.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    Andy_JS said:

    "The licence fee is “morally on the way out” and the BBC should be required to make much of its money through optional subscriptions, the chairman of the culture select committee said.

    Julian Knight, the Conservative MP, said the corporation’s sprawling size had done lasting damage to the media industry, arguing that commercial publishers could not compete with the “behemoth” BBC website." (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/bbc-licence-fee-on-the-way-out-says-senior-mp-8cb2vp5cc

    They badly screwed up not making iPlayer a subscription service. It could have been a globally-accessed sub service like Netflix. A terrible, terrible, terrible error of judgement.
    The Conservative MP is, like many, explicitly calling for the licence fee to be ended in order to damage the BBC. He says this is necessary in order for commercial rivals to succeed. He is quoted in The Times, not unrelated to Sky, not unrelated to Times Radio. Funny that.
    Since when has a Tory MP attacking the BBC count as news. It’s just what they say to curry favour with the footshot in chief.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    I remember saying that Shagger was lying when he said there had been a mass return to the office following his pronouncements. And I was right: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/sep/10/no-rise-in-workers-in-uk-city-centres-despite-back-to-office-plea

    You can't trust anything he says because he is a man without trust. How many times does he have to get sacked for lying or leave behind a string of ex-wives ex-lovers and abandoned children before some accept he's not suitable for the job? As has become increasingly clear he hasn't a clue what is going on out there or how to fix it.

    Operation Spaff at the Moon is just delusional - when he says "Moonshot" what he means is that the world-beating test and trace system will soon be advising people their nearest testing centre that can see them is on the Sea of Tranquility.

    Except the data only go up to a week before he actually said anything.
  • HYUFD said:
    From son of a possible assassin of JFK to supreme court judge, an American tale.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    I remember saying that Shagger was lying when he said there had been a mass return to the office following his pronouncements. And I was right: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/sep/10/no-rise-in-workers-in-uk-city-centres-despite-back-to-office-plea

    You can't trust anything he says because he is a man without trust. How many times does he have to get sacked for lying or leave behind a string of ex-wives ex-lovers and abandoned children before some accept he's not suitable for the job? As has become increasingly clear he hasn't a clue what is going on out there or how to fix it.

    Operation Spaff at the Moon is just delusional - when he says "Moonshot" what he means is that the world-beating test and trace system will soon be advising people their nearest testing centre that can see them is on the Sea of Tranquility.

    Operation "moonshot" came across as the fantasy ramblings of a space cadet. It would have sounded highly ambitious from the tongue of a true statesman, but coming out of the mouth of Johnson it just sounded like more old bollocks.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    HYUFD said:
    From son of a possible assassin of JFK to supreme court judge, an American tale.
    Sins of his father?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    Andy_JS said:

    "The licence fee is “morally on the way out” and the BBC should be required to make much of its money through optional subscriptions, the chairman of the culture select committee said.

    Julian Knight, the Conservative MP, said the corporation’s sprawling size had done lasting damage to the media industry, arguing that commercial publishers could not compete with the “behemoth” BBC website." (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/bbc-licence-fee-on-the-way-out-says-senior-mp-8cb2vp5cc

    They badly screwed up not making iPlayer a subscription service. It could have been a globally-accessed sub service like Netflix. A terrible, terrible, terrible error of judgement.
    The BBC is possibly the worst exmple of unimaginative management you could ever come up with. They started out with a hugely respected brand. If ony they had grasped that they could have turned that into the world brand in news and entertainment.
    Not quite as easy as that. The iPlayer is run on a shoestring. The bbc pays to make a programme and broadcast it a couple of times. The production company is then free to sell it globally. If the BBC were to pay for international licences that would require a change in the charter and an expansion in funding. The government in its infinite wisdom stopped the bbc from doing that because it didn’t want it to grow too big. 🤷‍♂️
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,605
    Scott_xP said:
    Go on Westminster, give them their "once in a generation" referendum.

    It's not as if the SNP could exactly complain. Oh, what's that you say? They can?
  • IanB2 said:

    It's a grim day in the virus news tbh. The Daily Express has done its valiant best to cheerlead a national Boris orgasm but facts have swept all unfettered optimism aside.

    We're imprisoned by this virus.

    Until there's a vaccine.

    Yes; a New Normal.
    Some of which will be virtual.
    My wife and I are wondering if this coming Christmas will be the first we'll EVER have spent as 'just the two of us', after 58 years of marriage.
    Thinking somewhat negatively; wonder if Zoom and Teams will be able to cope with all the traffic there will be that day!
    Those large turkeys are going to be hard to shift...
    As BJ and his pals will attest.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    Jonathan said:

    Boris is the sort of man who believes Churchill’s speeches won WW2.

    The careful planning, intelligence, logistics and sacrifice of millions had nothing to do with it. That all just happened automatically and was incidental.

    I think you will find Churchill's speeches channelling Johnson's genius through this mists of time won WW2.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300

    I remember saying that Shagger was lying when he said there had been a mass return to the office following his pronouncements. And I was right: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/sep/10/no-rise-in-workers-in-uk-city-centres-despite-back-to-office-plea

    You can't trust anything he says because he is a man without trust. How many times does he have to get sacked for lying or leave behind a string of ex-wives ex-lovers and abandoned children before some accept he's not suitable for the job? As has become increasingly clear he hasn't a clue what is going on out there or how to fix it.

    Operation Spaff at the Moon is just delusional - when he says "Moonshot" what he means is that the world-beating test and trace system will soon be advising people their nearest testing centre that can see them is on the Sea of Tranquility.

    Operation "moonshot" came across as the fantasy ramblings of a space cadet. It would have sounded highly ambitious from the tongue of a true statesman, but coming out of the mouth of Johnson it just sounded like more old bollocks.
    Nice high rounded numbers for the headlines often are bollocks. A leak to BMJ suggests that it is weapons grade bollocks.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54097050

  • Andy_JS said:

    "The licence fee is “morally on the way out” and the BBC should be required to make much of its money through optional subscriptions, the chairman of the culture select committee said.

    Julian Knight, the Conservative MP, said the corporation’s sprawling size had done lasting damage to the media industry, arguing that commercial publishers could not compete with the “behemoth” BBC website." (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/bbc-licence-fee-on-the-way-out-says-senior-mp-8cb2vp5cc

    They badly screwed up not making iPlayer a subscription service. It could have been a globally-accessed sub service like Netflix. A terrible, terrible, terrible error of judgement.
    The BBC is possibly the worst exmple of unimaginative management you could ever come up with. They started out with a hugely respected brand. If ony they had grasped that they could have turned that into the world brand in news and entertainment.
    Yes. Free to air is what they are licensed to provide. Adding new commercial elements really could have been commercial - and still could be. If they don't want to go it alone with iPlayer then do it with BritBox. As Disney did, remove all of your content from other platforms and put it exclusively on your own. Its a pain in the bum for consumers who then have to have multiple subscriptions. But it works...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    dr_spyn said:

    I remember saying that Shagger was lying when he said there had been a mass return to the office following his pronouncements. And I was right: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/sep/10/no-rise-in-workers-in-uk-city-centres-despite-back-to-office-plea

    You can't trust anything he says because he is a man without trust. How many times does he have to get sacked for lying or leave behind a string of ex-wives ex-lovers and abandoned children before some accept he's not suitable for the job? As has become increasingly clear he hasn't a clue what is going on out there or how to fix it.

    Operation Spaff at the Moon is just delusional - when he says "Moonshot" what he means is that the world-beating test and trace system will soon be advising people their nearest testing centre that can see them is on the Sea of Tranquility.

    Operation "moonshot" came across as the fantasy ramblings of a space cadet. It would have sounded highly ambitious from the tongue of a true statesman, but coming out of the mouth of Johnson it just sounded like more old bollocks.
    Nice high rounded numbers for the headlines often are bollocks. A leak to BMJ suggests that it is weapons grade bollocks.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54097050

    EU divorce payment, as an example.
  • Scott_xP said:
    Go on Westminster, give them their "once in a generation" referendum.

    It's not as if the SNP could exactly complain. Oh, what's that you say? They can?
    Is that pic from The Wicker Man?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    Andy_JS said:

    "The licence fee is “morally on the way out” and the BBC should be required to make much of its money through optional subscriptions, the chairman of the culture select committee said.

    Julian Knight, the Conservative MP, said the corporation’s sprawling size had done lasting damage to the media industry, arguing that commercial publishers could not compete with the “behemoth” BBC website." (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/bbc-licence-fee-on-the-way-out-says-senior-mp-8cb2vp5cc

    They badly screwed up not making iPlayer a subscription service. It could have been a globally-accessed sub service like Netflix. A terrible, terrible, terrible error of judgement.
    The BBC is possibly the worst exmple of unimaginative management you could ever come up with. They started out with a hugely respected brand. If ony they had grasped that they could have turned that into the world brand in news and entertainment.
    Yes. Free to air is what they are licensed to provide. Adding new commercial elements really could have been commercial - and still could be. If they don't want to go it alone with iPlayer then do it with BritBox. As Disney did, remove all of your content from other platforms and put it exclusively on your own. Its a pain in the bum for consumers who then have to have multiple subscriptions. But it works...
    Due to constraints in public funding the BBC doesn’t own much of its content, it buys the right to broadcast it inside the uk. The commercial arm has to buy the rights for what you suggest and that costs £££££ that the BBC doesn’t have.
  • Jonathan said:

    Boris is the sort of man who believes Churchill’s speeches won WW2.

    The careful planning, intelligence, logistics and sacrifice of millions had nothing to do with it. That all just happened automatically and was incidental.

    For someone who was born during the war Churchill's speeches inspired the nation to win the war

    Boris is no Churchill
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    Jonathan said:

    It's a grim day in the virus news tbh. The Daily Express has done its valiant best to cheerlead a national Boris orgasm but facts have swept all unfettered optimism aside.

    We're imprisoned by this virus.

    Until there's a vaccine.

    I thought yesterday's press conference was a new high point for the Boris Johnson bizarre. It had been all going so well.

    Johnson was clearly reluctant to purvey the bad news that our liberties were again to be reduced, so he couched his message in apology and positivity. Then suddenly, along came the "moonshot". An Arthur C. Clarke style fantasy cocktail of fact, fiction and science fiction, that even by Johnson's earlier work was fantastical in the extreme.
    He believes his own bullshit and blames us when things don’t work out. If only we were more optimistic and believed in him more things would be fine. It’s our lack of faith that let’s us down.

    Sadly rhetoric, spin and bluster has proven to be ineffective against viruses. Who knew. 🤷‍♂️ Boris hasn’t got that yet.

    He’s quite dangerous really.
    He really is dangerous. Not necessarily in a malign way, like Trump, but in a casual, lazy way that has accidentally got thousands of people unnecessarily killed by Covid-19 already.
  • Scott_xP said:
    Go on Westminster, give them their "once in a generation" referendum.

    It's not as if the SNP could exactly complain. Oh, what's that you say? They can?
    That is so ironic and believable

    I am sure Malc will be along to demand they are given their referendum in the name of the Shetlander's democracy
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002

    He really is dangerous. Not necessarily in a malign way, like Trump, but in a casual, lazy way that has accidentally got thousands of people unnecessarily killed by Covid-19 already.

    This is the bit that confuses me about the Brexiteers.

    They love BoZo because he will "get it done", but he's going to fuck it up.

    Brexit will be shit, and they will get the blame.

    If you really want Brexit to have any chance of success, you need to ditch BoZo
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    IanB2 said:

    I see Los Angeles is banning Halloween this year. So it's not all bad ;)

    I suspect announcements that family gatherings at Christmas might be curtailed, will be secretly cheered to the rafters by many (!)
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Jonathan said:

    Boris is the sort of man who believes Churchill’s speeches won WW2.

    The careful planning, intelligence, logistics and sacrifice of millions had nothing to do with it. That all just happened automatically and was incidental.

    For someone who was born during the war Churchill's speeches inspired the nation to win the war

    Boris is no Churchill
    Have you not read Johnson's book, The Churchill factor? Johnson and Churchill, almost one and the same.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Gadfly said:

    Alistair said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Good news: 20 million people have recovered from Covid-19.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    It is the ones that didn't that worry me.
    A week ago the figure was 18.4 million. 1.6 million recoveries in 7 days is pretty encouraging. Also the percentage of recoveries is rising all the time.
    In Houston over the last two months the hospital fatality rate has gone from 6% overall to 10.5%

    A quite astonishing rise
    German data suggests their death rate is declining.

    https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/declining-covid-19-case-fatality-rates-across-all-ages-analysis-of-german-data/
    Anyone have any recent stats on UK hospitalisation and ICU occupancy? We’ve been entering this second wave for well over a month now so surely the new cases should be showing up in hospitals by now?
  • Re the internal market bill as a conservative I could not vote for it and it will be interesting to see just how many conservative mps vote against

  • welshowl said:

    IanB2 said:

    I see Los Angeles is banning Halloween this year. So it's not all bad ;)

    I suspect announcements that family gatherings at Christmas might be curtailed, will be secretly cheered to the rafters by many (!)
    It would be a huge disappointment to me. I never see my family anyway but I do like to see others suffer.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Jonathan said:

    Boris is the sort of man who believes Churchill’s speeches won WW2.

    The careful planning, intelligence, logistics and sacrifice of millions had nothing to do with it. That all just happened automatically and was incidental.

    For someone who was born during the war Churchill's speeches inspired the nation to win the war

    Boris is no Churchill
    Have you not read Johnson's book, The Churchill factor? Johnson and Churchill, almost one and the same.
    Except that one is buggering things up and the other didnt (or, at least, insofar as he tried to - for example blocking/relocating D Day - others prevented him from doing so)
  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    IanB2 said:

    Gadfly said:

    Alistair said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Good news: 20 million people have recovered from Covid-19.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    It is the ones that didn't that worry me.
    A week ago the figure was 18.4 million. 1.6 million recoveries in 7 days is pretty encouraging. Also the percentage of recoveries is rising all the time.
    In Houston over the last two months the hospital fatality rate has gone from 6% overall to 10.5%

    A quite astonishing rise
    German data suggests their death rate is declining.

    https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/declining-covid-19-case-fatality-rates-across-all-ages-analysis-of-german-data/
    Anyone have any recent stats on UK hospitalisation and ICU occupancy? We’ve been entering this second wave for well over a month now so surely the new cases should be showing up in hospitals by now?
    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/healthcare
  • Jonathan said:

    Boris is the sort of man who believes Churchill’s speeches won WW2.

    The careful planning, intelligence, logistics and sacrifice of millions had nothing to do with it. That all just happened automatically and was incidental.

    For someone who was born during the war Churchill's speeches inspired the nation to win the war

    Boris is no Churchill
    Have you not read Johnson's book, The Churchill factor? Johnson and Churchill, almost one and the same.
    I do not need to read his book to know Boris is not Churchill
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    Speaking of mass testing, the technology is advancing all the time. Is it too inconceivable to suggest mass testing is actually plausible?

    https://www.ft.com/content/763adbe8-5059-4528-8d06-baf525dfc7d7
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,605
    dr_spyn said:

    I remember saying that Shagger was lying when he said there had been a mass return to the office following his pronouncements. And I was right: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/sep/10/no-rise-in-workers-in-uk-city-centres-despite-back-to-office-plea

    You can't trust anything he says because he is a man without trust. How many times does he have to get sacked for lying or leave behind a string of ex-wives ex-lovers and abandoned children before some accept he's not suitable for the job? As has become increasingly clear he hasn't a clue what is going on out there or how to fix it.

    Operation Spaff at the Moon is just delusional - when he says "Moonshot" what he means is that the world-beating test and trace system will soon be advising people their nearest testing centre that can see them is on the Sea of Tranquility.

    Operation "moonshot" came across as the fantasy ramblings of a space cadet. It would have sounded highly ambitious from the tongue of a true statesman, but coming out of the mouth of Johnson it just sounded like more old bollocks.
    Nice high rounded numbers for the headlines often are bollocks. A leak to BMJ suggests that it is weapons grade bollocks.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54097050

    But this:

    "And he said that "in the near future" he wanted to start using testing "to identify people who are negative - who don't have coronavirus and who are not infectious - so we can allow them to behave in a more normal way, in the knowledge they cannot infect anyone else"."

    is the only way to return to normal absent an injection for immunity that is retreating over the horizon. It IS a Plan B. It would have been a better Plan B if started months back. But there does seem to be a lot of unwarranted rubbishing of it simply because it was announced by the PM.

    Identify the infected, keep them incentivised to stay home (and seriously sanctioned if they don't) is the way to beat Covid in a world without a vaccine. Yay - at last, somebody gets it.

    Has SKS come up with a Plan B? None that I have heard.
  • Gadfly said:

    Alistair said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Good news: 20 million people have recovered from Covid-19.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    It is the ones that didn't that worry me.
    A week ago the figure was 18.4 million. 1.6 million recoveries in 7 days is pretty encouraging. Also the percentage of recoveries is rising all the time.
    In Houston over the last two months the hospital fatality rate has gone from 6% overall to 10.5%

    A quite astonishing rise
    German data suggests their death rate is declining.

    https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/declining-covid-19-case-fatality-rates-across-all-ages-analysis-of-german-data/
    An Italian Doctor said as much back in May

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-virus/new-coronavirus-losing-potency-top-italian-doctor-says-idUSKBN2370OQ
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    edited September 2020
    Scott_xP said:

    He really is dangerous. Not necessarily in a malign way, like Trump, but in a casual, lazy way that has accidentally got thousands of people unnecessarily killed by Covid-19 already.

    This is the bit that confuses me about the Brexiteers.

    They love BoZo because he will "get it done", but he's going to fuck it up.

    Brexit will be shit, and they will get the blame.

    If you really want Brexit to have any chance of success, you need to ditch BoZo
    We wouldn’t have Bozo if Mrs M’s ‘strength and stability’ had got us anywhere. All she had to do was reach out across the house and aim for some soft Brexit solution - as many on here thought she would do - and the current fiasco would never have arisen.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    10 million tests a day, 3.5 billion tests a year.

    That’s a lot of landfill.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    Jonathan said:

    10 million tests a day, 3.5 billion tests a year.

    That’s a lot of landfill.

    I can see extinction rebellion campaigning against this already.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Gadfly said:

    IanB2 said:

    Gadfly said:

    Alistair said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Good news: 20 million people have recovered from Covid-19.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    It is the ones that didn't that worry me.
    A week ago the figure was 18.4 million. 1.6 million recoveries in 7 days is pretty encouraging. Also the percentage of recoveries is rising all the time.
    In Houston over the last two months the hospital fatality rate has gone from 6% overall to 10.5%

    A quite astonishing rise
    German data suggests their death rate is declining.

    https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/declining-covid-19-case-fatality-rates-across-all-ages-analysis-of-german-data/
    Anyone have any recent stats on UK hospitalisation and ICU occupancy? We’ve been entering this second wave for well over a month now so surely the new cases should be showing up in hospitals by now?
    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/healthcare
    Thank you. I suspected as much but didn’t want to spout off in the absence of being able to link to data. There is, so far, no sign that this so-called second wave is anything like what we experienced during the spring. Indeed if you were just judging things from inside a hospital, you’d doubt that the second wave even exists.

    How do we know that all these mostly younger recently tested ‘new cases’ haven’t been walking around with bits of virus in their system left over from the first wave?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Scott_xP said:

    He really is dangerous. Not necessarily in a malign way, like Trump, but in a casual, lazy way that has accidentally got thousands of people unnecessarily killed by Covid-19 already.

    This is the bit that confuses me about the Brexiteers.

    They love BoZo because he will "get it done", but he's going to fuck it up.

    Brexit will be shit, and they will get the blame.

    If you really want Brexit to have any chance of success, you need to ditch BoZo
    Brexit only prospers as a dyadic venture; it has value as long as it is opposed. Johnson is best placed to stoke that opposition with his Kulturkrieg. Without that nationalist-populist figurehead Brexit just becomes a story of a nation incompetently making itself poorer.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Just noticed this on Twitter re hospital admissions.

    https://twitter.com/ganeshran/status/1303714320761712640
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002

    Re the internal market bill as a conservative I could not vote for it and it will be interesting to see just how many conservative mps vote against

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1303951400964161536
  • IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    He really is dangerous. Not necessarily in a malign way, like Trump, but in a casual, lazy way that has accidentally got thousands of people unnecessarily killed by Covid-19 already.

    This is the bit that confuses me about the Brexiteers.

    They love BoZo because he will "get it done", but he's going to fuck it up.

    Brexit will be shit, and they will get the blame.

    If you really want Brexit to have any chance of success, you need to ditch BoZo
    We wouldn’t have Bozo if Mrs M’s ‘strength and stability’ had got us anywhere. All she had to do was reach out across the house and aim for some soft Brexit solution - as many on here thought she would do - and the current fiasco would never have arisen.
    Labour mps had it in their hands to pass her deal and many regret not doing so as admitted by Gloria Del Piero this week

    I do regret that TM deal fell, we would be in a very different place today if it had passed
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137
    edited September 2020

    Jonathan said:

    Boris is the sort of man who believes Churchill’s speeches won WW2.

    The careful planning, intelligence, logistics and sacrifice of millions had nothing to do with it. That all just happened automatically and was incidental.

    For someone who was born during the war Churchill's speeches inspired the nation to win the war

    Boris is no Churchill
    Have you not read Johnson's book, The Churchill factor? Johnson and Churchill, almost one and the same.
    I do not need to read his book to know Boris is not Churchill
    Churchill was also no Boris.

    Churchill lost 2 general elections in 1945 and 1950 and in the only general election he won in 1951 it was with a majority of just 17 and he lost the popular vote.

    Boris got a majority of 80 and won the popular vote at GE19.

    Now obviously Churchill was our greatest wartime PM but his elections record and domestic policy record was mixed, we wait and see what Boris' record will be policy wise over the next few years

  • Jonathan said:

    Boris is the sort of man who believes Churchill’s speeches won WW2.

    The careful planning, intelligence, logistics and sacrifice of millions had nothing to do with it. That all just happened automatically and was incidental.

    For someone who was born during the war Churchill's speeches inspired the nation to win the war

    Boris is no Churchill
    Have you not read Johnson's book, The Churchill factor? Johnson and Churchill, almost one and the same.
    I do not need to read his book to know Boris is not Churchill
    Has anyone read his book? It got panned by the critics.
  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    IanB2 said:

    Gadfly said:

    IanB2 said:

    Gadfly said:

    Alistair said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Good news: 20 million people have recovered from Covid-19.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    It is the ones that didn't that worry me.
    A week ago the figure was 18.4 million. 1.6 million recoveries in 7 days is pretty encouraging. Also the percentage of recoveries is rising all the time.
    In Houston over the last two months the hospital fatality rate has gone from 6% overall to 10.5%

    A quite astonishing rise
    German data suggests their death rate is declining.

    https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/declining-covid-19-case-fatality-rates-across-all-ages-analysis-of-german-data/
    Anyone have any recent stats on UK hospitalisation and ICU occupancy? We’ve been entering this second wave for well over a month now so surely the new cases should be showing up in hospitals by now?
    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/healthcare
    Thank you. I suspected as much but didn’t want to spout off in the absence of being able to link to data. There is, so far, no sign that this so-called second wave is anything like what we experienced during the spring. Indeed if you were just judging things from inside a hospital, you’d doubt that the second wave even exists.

    How do we know that all these mostly younger recently tested ‘new cases’ haven’t been walking around with bits of virus in their system left over from the first wave?
    However, the numbers seemingly have to be plotted on a logarithmic scale to properly understand what is happening.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/are-we-really-seeing-a-second-european-spike-
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
    HYUFD said:

    Now obviously Churchill was our greatest wartime PM but his elections record and domestic policy record was mixed, we wait and see what Boris' record will be policy wise over the next few years

    https://twitter.com/gavinesler/status/1303952478027894784
  • HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    Boris is the sort of man who believes Churchill’s speeches won WW2.

    The careful planning, intelligence, logistics and sacrifice of millions had nothing to do with it. That all just happened automatically and was incidental.

    For someone who was born during the war Churchill's speeches inspired the nation to win the war

    Boris is no Churchill
    Have you not read Johnson's book, The Churchill factor? Johnson and Churchill, almost one and the same.
    I do not need to read his book to know Boris is not Churchill
    Churchill was also no Boris.

    Churchill lost 2 general elections in 1945 and 1950 and in the only general election he won in 1951 it was with a majority of just 16 and he lost the popular vote.

    Boris got a majority of 80 and won the popular vote at GE19.

    Now obviously Churchill was our greatest wartime PM but his elections record and domestic policy record was mixed, we wait and see what Boris' record will be policy wise over the next few years

    Thank goodness Boris was not Churchill

  • IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    He really is dangerous. Not necessarily in a malign way, like Trump, but in a casual, lazy way that has accidentally got thousands of people unnecessarily killed by Covid-19 already.

    This is the bit that confuses me about the Brexiteers.

    They love BoZo because he will "get it done", but he's going to fuck it up.

    Brexit will be shit, and they will get the blame.

    If you really want Brexit to have any chance of success, you need to ditch BoZo
    We wouldn’t have Bozo if Mrs M’s ‘strength and stability’ had got us anywhere. All she had to do was reach out across the house and aim for some soft Brexit solution - as many on here thought she would do - and the current fiasco would never have arisen.
    Labour mps had it in their hands to pass her deal and many regret not doing so as admitted by Gloria Del Piero this week

    I do regret that TM deal fell, we would be in a very different place today if it had passed
    SKS bears the most responsibility for it not passing. He loved going on the news each night saying how terrible it was.
  • Scott_xP said:
    Lance Stroll must be gutted to lose his seat after coming third at Monza.

    [checks notes] What do you mean Perez loses his seat? What a shocker!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    edited September 2020
    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    Boris is the sort of man who believes Churchill’s speeches won WW2.

    The careful planning, intelligence, logistics and sacrifice of millions had nothing to do with it. That all just happened automatically and was incidental.

    For someone who was born during the war Churchill's speeches inspired the nation to win the war

    Boris is no Churchill
    Have you not read Johnson's book, The Churchill factor? Johnson and Churchill, almost one and the same.
    I do not need to read his book to know Boris is not Churchill
    Churchill was also no Boris.

    Churchill lost 2 general elections in 1945 and 1950 and in the only general election he won in 1951 it was with a majority of just 16 and he lost the popular vote.

    Boris got a majority of 80 and won the popular vote at GE19.

    Now obviously Churchill was our greatest wartime PM but his elections record and domestic policy record was mixed, we wait and see what Boris' record will be policy wise over the next few years

    Churchill got most things wrong, and his career would have ended as a maverick footnote in history had events not conspired to present a unique opportunity that matched his skills. It is hard to see any such similar opportunity arising for the comedian currently in office. He has however perfected the getting most things wrong bit.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,605
    Boris does embody the essence of one Churchillian quote:

    "If you're going through hell, keep going."
  • IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    He really is dangerous. Not necessarily in a malign way, like Trump, but in a casual, lazy way that has accidentally got thousands of people unnecessarily killed by Covid-19 already.

    This is the bit that confuses me about the Brexiteers.

    They love BoZo because he will "get it done", but he's going to fuck it up.

    Brexit will be shit, and they will get the blame.

    If you really want Brexit to have any chance of success, you need to ditch BoZo
    We wouldn’t have Bozo if Mrs M’s ‘strength and stability’ had got us anywhere. All she had to do was reach out across the house and aim for some soft Brexit solution - as many on here thought she would do - and the current fiasco would never have arisen.
    She did. Her backstop was so soft vast chunks of Brexiteers rejected it.

    Thankfully you guys rejected it too so now we can have a proper Brexit. Thanks, I appreciate that.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    He really is dangerous. Not necessarily in a malign way, like Trump, but in a casual, lazy way that has accidentally got thousands of people unnecessarily killed by Covid-19 already.

    This is the bit that confuses me about the Brexiteers.

    They love BoZo because he will "get it done", but he's going to fuck it up.

    Brexit will be shit, and they will get the blame.

    If you really want Brexit to have any chance of success, you need to ditch BoZo
    Brexit only prospers as a dyadic venture; it has value as long as it is opposed. Johnson is best placed to stoke that opposition with his Kulturkrieg. Without that nationalist-populist figurehead Brexit just becomes a story of a nation incompetently making itself poorer.
    The nation's relationship with Johnson intrigues me. However abject his behaviour or performance he is defended as the beacon of hope and optimism.

    It reminds me of the abused wife or husband who takes back their abusive partner in the vain hope things will be better in future
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137
    Scott_xP said:
    Removing a border between GB and NI will actually appease Unionists while the UK government will still keep no hard border with the Republic of Ireland to appease Nationalists
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    Boris is the sort of man who believes Churchill’s speeches won WW2.

    The careful planning, intelligence, logistics and sacrifice of millions had nothing to do with it. That all just happened automatically and was incidental.

    For someone who was born during the war Churchill's speeches inspired the nation to win the war

    Boris is no Churchill
    Have you not read Johnson's book, The Churchill factor? Johnson and Churchill, almost one and the same.
    I do not need to read his book to know Boris is not Churchill
    Churchill was also no Boris.

    Churchill lost 2 general elections in 1945 and 1950 and in the only general election he won in 1951 it was with a majority of just 16 and he lost the popular vote.

    Boris got a majority of 80 and won the popular vote at GE19.

    Now obviously Churchill was our greatest wartime PM but his elections record and domestic policy record was mixed, we wait and see what Boris' record will be policy wise over the next few years

    Churchill got most things wrong, and his career would have ended as a maverick footnote in history had events not conspired to present a unique opportunity that matched his skills. It is hard to see any such similar opportunity arising for the comedian currently in office. He has however perfected the getting most things wrong bit.
    Boris has delivered Brexit, whatever else he does that gives him a place in history even if it is not quite comparable to Churchill's in leading the nation in defeating the Nazis
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    He really is dangerous. Not necessarily in a malign way, like Trump, but in a casual, lazy way that has accidentally got thousands of people unnecessarily killed by Covid-19 already.

    This is the bit that confuses me about the Brexiteers.

    They love BoZo because he will "get it done", but he's going to fuck it up.

    Brexit will be shit, and they will get the blame.

    If you really want Brexit to have any chance of success, you need to ditch BoZo
    We wouldn’t have Bozo if Mrs M’s ‘strength and stability’ had got us anywhere. All she had to do was reach out across the house and aim for some soft Brexit solution - as many on here thought she would do - and the current fiasco would never have arisen.
    Labour mps had it in their hands to pass her deal and many regret not doing so as admitted by Gloria Del Piero this week

    I do regret that TM deal fell, we would be in a very different place today if it had passed
    SKS bears the most responsibility for it not passing. He loved going on the news each night saying how terrible it was.
    How can you blame Starmer? It is a fantastic "oven ready" deal. Surely if Starmer facilitated this fantastic oven ready deal, even by accident, he should be congratulated.
  • HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    Boris is the sort of man who believes Churchill’s speeches won WW2.

    The careful planning, intelligence, logistics and sacrifice of millions had nothing to do with it. That all just happened automatically and was incidental.

    For someone who was born during the war Churchill's speeches inspired the nation to win the war

    Boris is no Churchill
    Have you not read Johnson's book, The Churchill factor? Johnson and Churchill, almost one and the same.
    I do not need to read his book to know Boris is not Churchill
    Churchill was also no Boris.

    Churchill lost 2 general elections in 1945 and 1950 and in the only general election he won in 1951 it was with a majority of just 16 and he lost the popular vote.

    Boris got a majority of 80 and won the popular vote at GE19.

    Now obviously Churchill was our greatest wartime PM but his elections record and domestic policy record was mixed, we wait and see what Boris' record will be policy wise over the next few years

    Churchill got most things wrong, and his career would have ended as a maverick footnote in history had events not conspired to present a unique opportunity that matched his skills. It is hard to see any such similar opportunity arising for the comedian currently in office. He has however perfected the getting most things wrong bit.
    Boris has delivered Brexit, whatever else he does that gives him a place in history even if it is not quite comparable to Churchill's in leading the nation in defeating the Nazis
    A place in history like King John?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    He really is dangerous. Not necessarily in a malign way, like Trump, but in a casual, lazy way that has accidentally got thousands of people unnecessarily killed by Covid-19 already.

    This is the bit that confuses me about the Brexiteers.

    They love BoZo because he will "get it done", but he's going to fuck it up.

    Brexit will be shit, and they will get the blame.

    If you really want Brexit to have any chance of success, you need to ditch BoZo
    We wouldn’t have Bozo if Mrs M’s ‘strength and stability’ had got us anywhere. All she had to do was reach out across the house and aim for some soft Brexit solution - as many on here thought she would do - and the current fiasco would never have arisen.
    Labour mps had it in their hands to pass her deal and many regret not doing so as admitted by Gloria Del Piero this week

    I do regret that TM deal fell, we would be in a very different place today if it had passed
    It was the way that she handled and presented it, refusing to allow anyone outside her party any genuine involvement and simply hectoring the opposition with the same mechanistic phrases over and over again. That made it almost impossible for any opposition politician to respond.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    IanB2 said:

    Gadfly said:

    Alistair said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Good news: 20 million people have recovered from Covid-19.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    It is the ones that didn't that worry me.
    A week ago the figure was 18.4 million. 1.6 million recoveries in 7 days is pretty encouraging. Also the percentage of recoveries is rising all the time.
    In Houston over the last two months the hospital fatality rate has gone from 6% overall to 10.5%

    A quite astonishing rise
    German data suggests their death rate is declining.

    https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/declining-covid-19-case-fatality-rates-across-all-ages-analysis-of-german-data/
    Anyone have any recent stats on UK hospitalisation and ICU occupancy? We’ve been entering this second wave for well over a month now so surely the new cases should be showing up in hospitals by now?
    I'd say it took a couple of months in Spain - if not longer in some areas.
  • Just had to reboot the work laptop twice because Windows 10 can't do something simple like auto-hide the taskbar without flappage. I don't have this problem on my very shiny new Chromebook...

    As I have set up my own business what OS to run on suitable hardware wasn't a lengthy debate. Windows 10 on an Ultrabook costing £1,500 with the joys of Office 365? Or Chrome OS on a £700 Chromebook and G Suite?

    Chrome and Google all the way. As Apple afficionados say about their system, it just works. The sooner that the Windows as the default mindset is broken the better. Windows has always had this "why can't I do x" problem which has got progressively worse since they killed off 2000 Pro.
  • IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    He really is dangerous. Not necessarily in a malign way, like Trump, but in a casual, lazy way that has accidentally got thousands of people unnecessarily killed by Covid-19 already.

    This is the bit that confuses me about the Brexiteers.

    They love BoZo because he will "get it done", but he's going to fuck it up.

    Brexit will be shit, and they will get the blame.

    If you really want Brexit to have any chance of success, you need to ditch BoZo
    We wouldn’t have Bozo if Mrs M’s ‘strength and stability’ had got us anywhere. All she had to do was reach out across the house and aim for some soft Brexit solution - as many on here thought she would do - and the current fiasco would never have arisen.
    Labour mps had it in their hands to pass her deal and many regret not doing so as admitted by Gloria Del Piero this week

    I do regret that TM deal fell, we would be in a very different place today if it had passed
    SKS bears the most responsibility for it not passing. He loved going on the news each night saying how terrible it was.
    How can you blame Starmer? It is a fantastic "oven ready" deal. Surely if Starmer facilitated this fantastic oven ready deal, even by accident, he should be congratulated.
    I do not blame Starmer but all the moderate labour mps who could have passed TM deal and now acknowledge and regret it
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    He really is dangerous. Not necessarily in a malign way, like Trump, but in a casual, lazy way that has accidentally got thousands of people unnecessarily killed by Covid-19 already.

    This is the bit that confuses me about the Brexiteers.

    They love BoZo because he will "get it done", but he's going to fuck it up.

    Brexit will be shit, and they will get the blame.

    If you really want Brexit to have any chance of success, you need to ditch BoZo
    Brexit only prospers as a dyadic venture; it has value as long as it is opposed. Johnson is best placed to stoke that opposition with his Kulturkrieg. Without that nationalist-populist figurehead Brexit just becomes a story of a nation incompetently making itself poorer.
    The nation's relationship with Johnson intrigues me. However abject his behaviour or performance he is defended as the beacon of hope and optimism.

    It reminds me of the abused wife or husband who takes back their abusive partner in the vain hope things will be better in future
    Boris is our most charismatic PM since Blair, leaders with charisma have a kind of teflon plate
  • HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Removing a border between GB and NI will actually appease Unionists while the UK government will still keep no hard border with the Republic of Ireland to appease Nationalists
    Indeed. There are 5 not 3 options for the NI border.
    1. Risk a return to violence
    2. A hard border between GB and NI
    3. A hard border between NI and the Republic
    4. Erase the border between the UK and the EU by alignment
    5. Compromise the integrity of the border between the EU and the UK
    Once you've eliminated the impossible we have the outcome. Without either side being willing to compromise there is only one viable option.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    He really is dangerous. Not necessarily in a malign way, like Trump, but in a casual, lazy way that has accidentally got thousands of people unnecessarily killed by Covid-19 already.

    This is the bit that confuses me about the Brexiteers.

    They love BoZo because he will "get it done", but he's going to fuck it up.

    Brexit will be shit, and they will get the blame.

    If you really want Brexit to have any chance of success, you need to ditch BoZo
    Brexit only prospers as a dyadic venture; it has value as long as it is opposed. Johnson is best placed to stoke that opposition with his Kulturkrieg. Without that nationalist-populist figurehead Brexit just becomes a story of a nation incompetently making itself poorer.
    The nation's relationship with Johnson intrigues me. However abject his behaviour or performance he is defended as the beacon of hope and optimism.

    It reminds me of the abused wife or husband who takes back their abusive partner in the vain hope things will be better in future
    Boris is our most charismatic PM since Blair, leaders with charisma have a kind of teflon plate
    Yes, Bozo’s Brexit could very well come to be seen on a par with Blair’s Iraq.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Removing a border between GB and NI will actually appease Unionists while the UK government will still keep no hard border with the Republic of Ireland to appease Nationalists
    In your world HYUFD two and two often makes five. I don't see your answer as right, but certainly points are deserved for showing your working out.
  • HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    He really is dangerous. Not necessarily in a malign way, like Trump, but in a casual, lazy way that has accidentally got thousands of people unnecessarily killed by Covid-19 already.

    This is the bit that confuses me about the Brexiteers.

    They love BoZo because he will "get it done", but he's going to fuck it up.

    Brexit will be shit, and they will get the blame.

    If you really want Brexit to have any chance of success, you need to ditch BoZo
    Brexit only prospers as a dyadic venture; it has value as long as it is opposed. Johnson is best placed to stoke that opposition with his Kulturkrieg. Without that nationalist-populist figurehead Brexit just becomes a story of a nation incompetently making itself poorer.
    The nation's relationship with Johnson intrigues me. However abject his behaviour or performance he is defended as the beacon of hope and optimism.

    It reminds me of the abused wife or husband who takes back their abusive partner in the vain hope things will be better in future
    Boris is our most charismatic PM since Blair, leaders with charisma have a kind of teflon plate
    Not when it comes to breaking an international treaty

    It is wrong on so many levels and he should go
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464

    Re the internal market bill as a conservative I could not vote for it and it will be interesting to see just how many conservative mps vote against

    I suspect that Tory constituency chairman are even now being contacted with a view to warning them that MP's who do not support the Government should not be reselected.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Removing a border between GB and NI will actually appease Unionists while the UK government will still keep no hard border with the Republic of Ireland to appease Nationalists
    Indeed. There are 5 not 3 options for the NI border.
    1. Risk a return to violence
    2. A hard border between GB and NI
    3. A hard border between NI and the Republic
    4. Erase the border between the UK and the EU by alignment
    5. Compromise the integrity of the border between the EU and the UK
    Once you've eliminated the impossible we have the outcome. Without either side being willing to compromise there is only one viable option.
    hmmm
    ,
    on point 1 violence hasnt gone away you know, it just doesnt get reported.
  • IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    He really is dangerous. Not necessarily in a malign way, like Trump, but in a casual, lazy way that has accidentally got thousands of people unnecessarily killed by Covid-19 already.

    This is the bit that confuses me about the Brexiteers.

    They love BoZo because he will "get it done", but he's going to fuck it up.

    Brexit will be shit, and they will get the blame.

    If you really want Brexit to have any chance of success, you need to ditch BoZo
    We wouldn’t have Bozo if Mrs M’s ‘strength and stability’ had got us anywhere. All she had to do was reach out across the house and aim for some soft Brexit solution - as many on here thought she would do - and the current fiasco would never have arisen.
    Labour mps had it in their hands to pass her deal and many regret not doing so as admitted by Gloria Del Piero this week

    I do regret that TM deal fell, we would be in a very different place today if it had passed
    SKS bears the most responsibility for it not passing. He loved going on the news each night saying how terrible it was.
    How can you blame Starmer? It is a fantastic "oven ready" deal. Surely if Starmer facilitated this fantastic oven ready deal, even by accident, he should be congratulated.
    I absolutely am grateful we didn't end up with May's deal and got to where we are now so yes.

    Are you happy with that too?
  • Just had to reboot the work laptop twice because Windows 10 can't do something simple like auto-hide the taskbar without flappage. I don't have this problem on my very shiny new Chromebook...

    As I have set up my own business what OS to run on suitable hardware wasn't a lengthy debate. Windows 10 on an Ultrabook costing £1,500 with the joys of Office 365? Or Chrome OS on a £700 Chromebook and G Suite?

    Chrome and Google all the way. As Apple afficionados say about their system, it just works. The sooner that the Windows as the default mindset is broken the better. Windows has always had this "why can't I do x" problem which has got progressively worse since they killed off 2000 Pro.

    MacBooks are the best.
  • Re the internal market bill as a conservative I could not vote for it and it will be interesting to see just how many conservative mps vote against

    I suspect that Tory constituency chairman are even now being contacted with a view to warning them that MP's who do not support the Government should not be reselected.
    I still could not vote to break an international treaty
  • HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Removing a border between GB and NI will actually appease Unionists while the UK government will still keep no hard border with the Republic of Ireland to appease Nationalists
    So BJ & Co are appeasers? Knew It.
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,019
    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    He really is dangerous. Not necessarily in a malign way, like Trump, but in a casual, lazy way that has accidentally got thousands of people unnecessarily killed by Covid-19 already.

    This is the bit that confuses me about the Brexiteers.

    They love BoZo because he will "get it done", but he's going to fuck it up.

    Brexit will be shit, and they will get the blame.

    If you really want Brexit to have any chance of success, you need to ditch BoZo
    We wouldn’t have Bozo if Mrs M’s ‘strength and stability’ had got us anywhere. All she had to do was reach out across the house and aim for some soft Brexit solution - as many on here thought she would do - and the current fiasco would never have arisen.
    Tories gonna Tory.

    For ever, most likely.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    He really is dangerous. Not necessarily in a malign way, like Trump, but in a casual, lazy way that has accidentally got thousands of people unnecessarily killed by Covid-19 already.

    This is the bit that confuses me about the Brexiteers.

    They love BoZo because he will "get it done", but he's going to fuck it up.

    Brexit will be shit, and they will get the blame.

    If you really want Brexit to have any chance of success, you need to ditch BoZo
    Brexit only prospers as a dyadic venture; it has value as long as it is opposed. Johnson is best placed to stoke that opposition with his Kulturkrieg. Without that nationalist-populist figurehead Brexit just becomes a story of a nation incompetently making itself poorer.
    The nation's relationship with Johnson intrigues me. However abject his behaviour or performance he is defended as the beacon of hope and optimism.

    It reminds me of the abused wife or husband who takes back their abusive partner in the vain hope things will be better in future
    Boris is our most charismatic PM since Blair, leaders with charisma have a kind of teflon plate
    Ted Bundy was apparently charismatic. I wouldn't have wanted him as PM or dating my daughter.
  • IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    He really is dangerous. Not necessarily in a malign way, like Trump, but in a casual, lazy way that has accidentally got thousands of people unnecessarily killed by Covid-19 already.

    This is the bit that confuses me about the Brexiteers.

    They love BoZo because he will "get it done", but he's going to fuck it up.

    Brexit will be shit, and they will get the blame.

    If you really want Brexit to have any chance of success, you need to ditch BoZo
    We wouldn’t have Bozo if Mrs M’s ‘strength and stability’ had got us anywhere. All she had to do was reach out across the house and aim for some soft Brexit solution - as many on here thought she would do - and the current fiasco would never have arisen.
    Labour mps had it in their hands to pass her deal and many regret not doing so as admitted by Gloria Del Piero this week

    I do regret that TM deal fell, we would be in a very different place today if it had passed
    SKS bears the most responsibility for it not passing. He loved going on the news each night saying how terrible it was.
    How can you blame Starmer? It is a fantastic "oven ready" deal. Surely if Starmer facilitated this fantastic oven ready deal, even by accident, he should be congratulated.
    He was to blame for May's deal not passing, Labour should have backed it. It was the worst political decision in decades and as Shadow Brexit Secretary he was at the heart of that decision.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464
    Scott_xP said:

    HYUFD said:

    Now obviously Churchill was our greatest wartime PM but his elections record and domestic policy record was mixed, we wait and see what Boris' record will be policy wise over the next few years

    https://twitter.com/gavinesler/status/1303952478027894784
    Marry in haste; repent at leisure?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    He really is dangerous. Not necessarily in a malign way, like Trump, but in a casual, lazy way that has accidentally got thousands of people unnecessarily killed by Covid-19 already.

    This is the bit that confuses me about the Brexiteers.

    They love BoZo because he will "get it done", but he's going to fuck it up.

    Brexit will be shit, and they will get the blame.

    If you really want Brexit to have any chance of success, you need to ditch BoZo
    We wouldn’t have Bozo if Mrs M’s ‘strength and stability’ had got us anywhere. All she had to do was reach out across the house and aim for some soft Brexit solution - as many on here thought she would do - and the current fiasco would never have arisen.
    Labour mps had it in their hands to pass her deal and many regret not doing so as admitted by Gloria Del Piero this week

    I do regret that TM deal fell, we would be in a very different place today if it had passed
    SKS bears the most responsibility for it not passing. He loved going on the news each night saying how terrible it was.
    How can you blame Starmer? It is a fantastic "oven ready" deal. Surely if Starmer facilitated this fantastic oven ready deal, even by accident, he should be congratulated.
    He was to blame for May's deal not passing, Labour should have backed it. It was the worst political decision in decades and as Shadow Brexit Secretary he was at the heart of that decision.
    Once again - he wasn't

    The opposition is there to oppose and May's attitude to Brexit made it impossible for any opposition to do anything else..
  • Just had to reboot the work laptop twice because Windows 10 can't do something simple like auto-hide the taskbar without flappage. I don't have this problem on my very shiny new Chromebook...

    As I have set up my own business what OS to run on suitable hardware wasn't a lengthy debate. Windows 10 on an Ultrabook costing £1,500 with the joys of Office 365? Or Chrome OS on a £700 Chromebook and G Suite?

    Chrome and Google all the way. As Apple afficionados say about their system, it just works. The sooner that the Windows as the default mindset is broken the better. Windows has always had this "why can't I do x" problem which has got progressively worse since they killed off 2000 Pro.

    MacBooks are the best.
    I don't doubt they are good. And Mac OS definitely just works. But as with high end Windows machines you pay £lots. I have been a Chrome OS user since the early days and it just gets better and better. The machine I have just bought for £700 has got enough power to cope with anything, is built like a tank and gets 8 years of OS / software over-the-air updates.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    edited September 2020

    Just had to reboot the work laptop twice because Windows 10 can't do something simple like auto-hide the taskbar without flappage. I don't have this problem on my very shiny new Chromebook...

    As I have set up my own business what OS to run on suitable hardware wasn't a lengthy debate. Windows 10 on an Ultrabook costing £1,500 with the joys of Office 365? Or Chrome OS on a £700 Chromebook and G Suite?

    Chrome and Google all the way. As Apple afficionados say about their system, it just works. The sooner that the Windows as the default mindset is broken the better. Windows has always had this "why can't I do x" problem which has got progressively worse since they killed off 2000 Pro.

    MacBooks are the best.
    It's weird but over the years I've used Linux, Macs and Chromebooks and I always return to Windows.

    Yes it's annoying at times but mostly it just works and when it goes wrong it's because IT security has screwed something up (and yes that's happened to me even when working for MS).
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    He really is dangerous. Not necessarily in a malign way, like Trump, but in a casual, lazy way that has accidentally got thousands of people unnecessarily killed by Covid-19 already.

    This is the bit that confuses me about the Brexiteers.

    They love BoZo because he will "get it done", but he's going to fuck it up.

    Brexit will be shit, and they will get the blame.

    If you really want Brexit to have any chance of success, you need to ditch BoZo
    We wouldn’t have Bozo if Mrs M’s ‘strength and stability’ had got us anywhere. All she had to do was reach out across the house and aim for some soft Brexit solution - as many on here thought she would do - and the current fiasco would never have arisen.
    Labour mps had it in their hands to pass her deal and many regret not doing so as admitted by Gloria Del Piero this week

    I do regret that TM deal fell, we would be in a very different place today if it had passed
    SKS bears the most responsibility for it not passing. He loved going on the news each night saying how terrible it was.
    How can you blame Starmer? It is a fantastic "oven ready" deal. Surely if Starmer facilitated this fantastic oven ready deal, even by accident, he should be congratulated.
    He was to blame for May's deal not passing, Labour should have backed it. It was the worst political decision in decades and as Shadow Brexit Secretary he was at the heart of that decision.
    Your boys at the ERG turned it down too. Have you forgotten that. I thought May's deal was poor, and I wouldn't have supported it. With the benefit of hindsight bearing in mind the dogs dinner Johnson came up with I might now consider that to be an error.
  • eek said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    He really is dangerous. Not necessarily in a malign way, like Trump, but in a casual, lazy way that has accidentally got thousands of people unnecessarily killed by Covid-19 already.

    This is the bit that confuses me about the Brexiteers.

    They love BoZo because he will "get it done", but he's going to fuck it up.

    Brexit will be shit, and they will get the blame.

    If you really want Brexit to have any chance of success, you need to ditch BoZo
    We wouldn’t have Bozo if Mrs M’s ‘strength and stability’ had got us anywhere. All she had to do was reach out across the house and aim for some soft Brexit solution - as many on here thought she would do - and the current fiasco would never have arisen.
    Labour mps had it in their hands to pass her deal and many regret not doing so as admitted by Gloria Del Piero this week

    I do regret that TM deal fell, we would be in a very different place today if it had passed
    SKS bears the most responsibility for it not passing. He loved going on the news each night saying how terrible it was.
    How can you blame Starmer? It is a fantastic "oven ready" deal. Surely if Starmer facilitated this fantastic oven ready deal, even by accident, he should be congratulated.
    He was to blame for May's deal not passing, Labour should have backed it. It was the worst political decision in decades and as Shadow Brexit Secretary he was at the heart of that decision.
    Once again - he wasn't

    The opposition is there to oppose and May's attitude to Brexit made it impossible for any opposition to do anything else..
    The opposition is there to oppose if they want it to change, not to oppose at all times. If the Opposition wouldn't compromise then the only alternative was to unite the Tories which was to make Brexit hard instead of soft, which is what happened. Is that what you wanted?
This discussion has been closed.