This is interesting - Shadsy mentions that PredictIt is one of the few markets open to US punters, but also I think it limits your stakes, so it might be suggesting that Trump support is coming from a small number of people putting a lot of money on.
At the last US election there were some big arb opportunities between Predictit and Betfair, if you were able to get on both - you'll likely need both a US and UK credit card to do that though.
I'm reluctant to recommend this as it appears that at least one of the systems is relying on my smart contract code, which seems like a decidedly reckless thing to do, but if you dare there are probably also some opportunities to arb the regular British markets with the crypto-currency markets.
It seems one or two on here are confusing Trump with Putin with regard to fair elections
Trump is taking a lot of flak from those who do not see common factors with the wider Republican Party or with our own (or their own) Boris. Trump did not invent gerrymandering even if he is not above putting his own thumb on the scale.
Graphic video warning - the cops here attack and push away a medic from treating someone who has been shot. They have no other medic to treat him and he dies.
These monsters are not normal. There is no way a British cop would push away a medic from treating someone who needed it and just stand there and watch someone die refusing medical treatment.
The Tories in Scotland have been (mal)formed by decades of imposing their policies here rather than getting consent for them. They've forgotten the first rule of politics which is that your promises have to have a semblance of plausibility.
Shouldn't be surprised if the number of new lanes that they're promising on the M8 is into double figures by next May.
In the USA, you don't head back into your car if the police have firearms drawn on you.
In the USA I think I'd avoid police officers like the plague and lie on the ground with my hands behind my back reflexively if they ever came up to me saying, "British tourist! British tourist!".
It's highly variable and unpredictable. CHP were chill af but Tennessee State Troopers are fuckers. I once went full Smokey and the Bandit for the Virginia border rather than be pulled over by them a second time.
A 46% rise in the attainment gap as we acknowledge that most schools didn't even get off the ground in terms of remote learning. You can be a bit cynical about the percentage and how it is measured but there is no doubt that the majority of schools failed the majority of pupils over the summer term and have done nothing since.
There seems a consensus that the exams will have to be delayed but very little constructive thought about what happens from there in terms of University applications and entrance. As my son will be going to University at the end of this school year I am watching with a fair degree of apprehension.
This is why the exams story played out as it did.
If they’d done this year’s exams as scheduled, or slightly delayed, the story would have been how disadvantaged students were ‘denied’ ‘their’ place at university, because the private schools and top Acadamies could offer distance learning and everyone had a computer.
It's why it always plays out that way. The algorithm was individually unfair but reflected the collective reality that our crap schools are, err, crap. Why the solution to that is giving prizes to all rather than actually focusing on the underlying problem of useless teaching and persistent under performance escapes me.
Ban private education. Task number 2 on the how to fix the UK in a generation or two list.
There will always be private education.
If private education were banned then all that would happen is that some state schools would become private-equivalents and the property market in their catchment area would skyrocket and wealthy parents would buy a home in that catchment area, then sell it on after their children have graduated.
A prescient article about Trump from 2016 but relevant to this year’s election. Also its analysis of how democracy can evolve into tyranny is pertinent here.
Gosh - remarkable article, even if long. While I start from a different place from the author (who is so elitist that he flirts with regret that the francvhise was expanded beyond property-owners), he is spot on about how Trump has succeeded and evolved.
Yes, I found that rather funny too.
It's a great article. It seems no lessons have been learnt about wealthy educated and successful soft-left graduates telling the poor disadvantaged working class they have white privilege though.
It seems one or two on here are confusing Trump with Putin with regard to fair elections
Trump is taking a lot of flak from those who do not see common factors with the wider Republican Party or with our own (or their own) Boris. Trump did not invent gerrymandering even if he is not above putting his own thumb on the scale.
A prescient article about Trump from 2016 but relevant to this year’s election. Also its analysis of how democracy can evolve into tyranny is pertinent here.
Gosh - remarkable article, even if long. While I start from a different place from the author (who is so elitist that he flirts with regret that the francvhise was expanded beyond property-owners), he is spot on about how Trump has succeeded and evolved.
Yes, I found that rather funny too.
It's a great article. It seems no lessons have been learnt about wealthy educated and successful soft-left graduates telling the poor disadvantaged working class they have white privilege though.
Graphic video warning - the cops here attack and push away a medic from treating someone who has been shot. They have no other medic to treat him and he dies.
These monsters are not normal. There is no way a British cop would push away a medic from treating someone who needed it and just stand there and watch someone die refusing medical treatment.
They don't know what has happened, what the people standing over the guy on the ground are trying to do, or what the overall situation is and hence try to sterilise the area.
I mean I appreciate you have all the facts at hand and saw the previous 30 minutes in real time from several angles but I am not (yet) outraged.
In the USA, you don't head back into your car if the police have firearms drawn on you.
In the USA I think I'd avoid police officers like the plague and lie on the ground with my hands behind my back reflexively if they ever came up to me saying, "British tourist! British tourist!".
It's highly variable and unpredictable. CHP were chill af but Tennessee State Troopers are fuckers. I once went full Smokey and the Bandit for the Virginia border rather than be pulled over by them a second time.
CHP? Do I have to Google every acronym you use?
California Highway Patrol. They pulled me over outside Fresno, called me "bro" and didn't give me a ticket because they liked my car.
A 46% rise in the attainment gap as we acknowledge that most schools didn't even get off the ground in terms of remote learning. You can be a bit cynical about the percentage and how it is measured but there is no doubt that the majority of schools failed the majority of pupils over the summer term and have done nothing since.
There seems a consensus that the exams will have to be delayed but very little constructive thought about what happens from there in terms of University applications and entrance. As my son will be going to University at the end of this school year I am watching with a fair degree of apprehension.
This is why the exams story played out as it did.
If they’d done this year’s exams as scheduled, or slightly delayed, the story would have been how disadvantaged students were ‘denied’ ‘their’ place at university, because the private schools and top Acadamies could offer distance learning and everyone had a computer.
It's why it always plays out that way. The algorithm was individually unfair but reflected the collective reality that our crap schools are, err, crap. Why the solution to that is giving prizes to all rather than actually focusing on the underlying problem of useless teaching and persistent under performance escapes me.
Ban private education. Task number 2 on the how to fix the UK in a generation or two list.
There will always be private education.
If private education were banned then all that would happen is that some state schools would become private-equivalents and the property market in their catchment area would skyrocket and wealthy parents would buy a home in that catchment area, then sell it on after their children have graduated.
Oh wait, that already happens.
Not to mention that the top boarding schools would simply relocate to Singapore or Dubai (where most of them have satellites anyway), and the world's elites would send their kids there instead - depriving the UK economy of several billion in foreign investment and billions more in goodwill and attachment that the world's rich have to the UK.
In the USA, you don't head back into your car if the police have firearms drawn on you.
In the USA I think I'd avoid police officers like the plague and lie on the ground with my hands behind my back reflexively if they ever came up to me saying, "British tourist! British tourist!".
It's highly variable and unpredictable. CHP were chill af but Tennessee State Troopers are fuckers. I once went full Smokey and the Bandit for the Virginia border rather than be pulled over by them a second time.
CHP? Do I have to Google every acronym you use?
California Highway Patrol. They pulled me over outside Fresno, called me "bro" and didn't give me a ticket because they liked my car.
Going back into the "office" (its really a library) this morning for the first time in a few weeks. My wife is cheering me out the door and seriously looking forward to some time in the house on her own, once son is off to school and daughter to work.
She really needs her alone time and has found this lockdown very hard. I suspect that there is many like her.
For most of humanity men have gone 'out of home to work and women have stayed 'in the home' for childcare, housecare. At least that seems to be the pattern, looking at things world-wide.
At least I am not expected to bring home a slice of mammoth (at least not physically).
Well not with that attitude, but itd be a nice treat.
It seems one or two on here are confusing Trump with Putin with regard to fair elections
Trump is taking a lot of flak from those who do not see common factors with the wider Republican Party or with our own (or their own) Boris. Trump did not invent gerrymandering even if he is not above putting his own thumb on the scale.
Trump is pretty representative of the Republican Party, he's just a bit more obvious about what he's doing than many of them. You could even say he's done a good job of exposing the true face of the party.
In the USA, you don't head back into your car if the police have firearms drawn on you.
In the USA I think I'd avoid police officers like the plague and lie on the ground with my hands behind my back reflexively if they ever came up to me saying, "British tourist! British tourist!".
It's highly variable and unpredictable. CHP were chill af but Tennessee State Troopers are fuckers. I once went full Smokey and the Bandit for the Virginia border rather than be pulled over by them a second time.
CHP? Do I have to Google every acronym you use?
California Highway Patrol. They pulled me over outside Fresno, called me "bro" and didn't give me a ticket because they liked my car.
Graphic video warning - the cops here attack and push away a medic from treating someone who has been shot. They have no other medic to treat him and he dies.
These monsters are not normal. There is no way a British cop would push away a medic from treating someone who needed it and just stand there and watch someone die refusing medical treatment.
They don't know what has happened, what the people standing over the guy on the ground are trying to do, or what the overall situation is and hence try to sterilise the area.
I mean I appreciate you have all the facts at hand and saw the previous 30 minutes in real time from several angles but I am not (yet) outraged.
Graphic video warning - the cops here attack and push away a medic from treating someone who has been shot. They have no other medic to treat him and he dies.
These monsters are not normal. There is no way a British cop would push away a medic from treating someone who needed it and just stand there and watch someone die refusing medical treatment.
They don't know what has happened, what the people standing over the guy on the ground are trying to do, or what the overall situation is and hence try to sterilise the area.
I mean I appreciate you have all the facts at hand and saw the previous 30 minutes in real time from several angles but I am not (yet) outraged.
Did you watch the video?
They pushed away a medic and kicked away her equipment despite it being extremely clearly audible that she was a medic trying to treat him. And the issue is not the past 30 minutes, that isn't what was relevant but they continued to stand over a dying man and refused to allow the medic back to treat him. It should take seconds to say "OK medic allowed here to treat him, everyone else away" but that didn't happen.
Graphic video warning - the cops here attack and push away a medic from treating someone who has been shot. They have no other medic to treat him and he dies.
These monsters are not normal. There is no way a British cop would push away a medic from treating someone who needed it and just stand there and watch someone die refusing medical treatment.
While your link is undoubtedly true it does not paint the whole picture by a long shot. Police do not even make the top ten dangerous jobs in the us much though they would like you to think so
As to sources. The second had police at number 14 and even then less than half the recorded fatalities were death by being shot which was 46 out of 102. Roughly in line with your link.
Part of the problem is the relentless message in training to US cops - any second now the black man you are stopping will turn out to be a part of The North Hollywood Shooters* Part II or something
Graphic video warning - the cops here attack and push away a medic from treating someone who has been shot. They have no other medic to treat him and he dies.
These monsters are not normal. There is no way a British cop would push away a medic from treating someone who needed it and just stand there and watch someone die refusing medical treatment.
They don't know what has happened....
And made no attempt at all to find out.
Precisely.
If you don't know what has happened then don't deny medical treatment to people who need it.
That should be the #1 rule in conflict engagement. People talk about the militarisation of the Police but I doubt the military would push a medic off someone who has been shot with no alternative medic available.
In the USA, you don't head back into your car if the police have firearms drawn on you.
In the USA I think I'd avoid police officers like the plague and lie on the ground with my hands behind my back reflexively if they ever came up to me saying, "British tourist! British tourist!".
It's highly variable and unpredictable. CHP were chill af but Tennessee State Troopers are fuckers. I once went full Smokey and the Bandit for the Virginia border rather than be pulled over by them a second time.
CHP? Do I have to Google every acronym you use?
California Highway Patrol. They pulled me over outside Fresno, called me "bro" and didn't give me a ticket because they liked my car.
Same car, different skin colour, and "bro" likely would not be how they addressed you.
They've forgotten the first rule of politics which is that your promises have to have a semblance of plausibility.
Doesn't seem to trouble the Zoomers much
The average Westminster polling for the SNP this year is 50.6%. Just tae help yous out a bit, part time Unionists calling half of Scottish voters Zoomers is one of the reasons that your cause is tanking.
Graphic video warning - the cops here attack and push away a medic from treating someone who has been shot. They have no other medic to treat him and he dies.
These monsters are not normal. There is no way a British cop would push away a medic from treating someone who needed it and just stand there and watch someone die refusing medical treatment.
They don't know what has happened, what the people standing over the guy on the ground are trying to do, or what the overall situation is and hence try to sterilise the area.
I mean I appreciate you have all the facts at hand and saw the previous 30 minutes in real time from several angles but I am not (yet) outraged.
Did you watch the video?
They pushed away a medic and kicked away her equipment despite it being extremely clearly audible that she was a medic trying to treat him. And the issue is not the past 30 minutes, that isn't what was relevant but they continued to stand over a dying man and refused to allow the medic back to treat him. It should take seconds to say "OK medic allowed here to treat him, everyone else away" but that didn't happen.
I wish. It was an Estoril Blue E36 M3 vert with two piece BBS wheels and a spectacularly unattractive male Naval Flight Officer in the passenger seat who was meant to have been looking for non squawking bogies.
Graphic video warning - the cops here attack and push away a medic from treating someone who has been shot. They have no other medic to treat him and he dies.
These monsters are not normal. There is no way a British cop would push away a medic from treating someone who needed it and just stand there and watch someone die refusing medical treatment.
They don't know what has happened....
And made no attempt at all to find out.
They just arrived on the scene, tried to sterilise the area getting rid of people they didn't know, and then who knows what happened.
Graphic video warning - the cops here attack and push away a medic from treating someone who has been shot. They have no other medic to treat him and he dies.
These monsters are not normal. There is no way a British cop would push away a medic from treating someone who needed it and just stand there and watch someone die refusing medical treatment.
They don't know what has happened, what the people standing over the guy on the ground are trying to do, or what the overall situation is and hence try to sterilise the area.
I mean I appreciate you have all the facts at hand and saw the previous 30 minutes in real time from several angles but I am not (yet) outraged.
Did you watch the video?
They pushed away a medic and kicked away her equipment despite it being extremely clearly audible that she was a medic trying to treat him. And the issue is not the past 30 minutes, that isn't what was relevant but they continued to stand over a dying man and refused to allow the medic back to treat him. It should take seconds to say "OK medic allowed here to treat him, everyone else away" but that didn't happen.
Under what circumstances is it OK to deny medical treatment?
It was very clear that she said she was a medic.
Are you cool with random passers by interfering with seemingly wounded people. Just because they say everything's fine and they're trying to help?
If someone needs medical treatment and a passer by says they're a medic then yes absolutely 100%.
Are you cool with denying medical treatment when there's a medic available to treat them and watching someone bleed out instead because treatment is denied?
Graphic video warning - the cops here attack and push away a medic from treating someone who has been shot. They have no other medic to treat him and he dies.
These monsters are not normal. There is no way a British cop would push away a medic from treating someone who needed it and just stand there and watch someone die refusing medical treatment.
They don't know what has happened....
And made no attempt at all to find out.
They just arrived on the scene, tried to sterilise the area getting rid of people they didn't know, and then who knows what happened.
Graphic video warning - the cops here attack and push away a medic from treating someone who has been shot. They have no other medic to treat him and he dies.
These monsters are not normal. There is no way a British cop would push away a medic from treating someone who needed it and just stand there and watch someone die refusing medical treatment.
They don't know what has happened....
And made no attempt at all to find out.
Precisely.
If you don't know what has happened then don't deny medical treatment to people who need it.
That should be the #1 rule in conflict engagement. People talk about the militarisation of the Police but I doubt the military would push a medic off someone who has been shot with no alternative medic available.
The #1 rule in "conflict engagement" should be that if you don't know what has happened you believe randoms on the street who say they are medics and allow them near casualties.
In the USA, you don't head back into your car if the police have firearms drawn on you.
In the USA I think I'd avoid police officers like the plague and lie on the ground with my hands behind my back reflexively if they ever came up to me saying, "British tourist! British tourist!".
It's highly variable and unpredictable. CHP were chill af but Tennessee State Troopers are fuckers. I once went full Smokey and the Bandit for the Virginia border rather than be pulled over by them a second time.
CHP? Do I have to Google every acronym you use?
California Highway Patrol. They pulled me over outside Fresno, called me "bro" and didn't give me a ticket because they liked my car.
Ah.
Well, that's what a Dacia Duster will do for you.
Base model Dusters are cool now. I'd have one if they didn't have the same towing capacity as an Invacar.
Graphic video warning - the cops here attack and push away a medic from treating someone who has been shot. They have no other medic to treat him and he dies.
These monsters are not normal. There is no way a British cop would push away a medic from treating someone who needed it and just stand there and watch someone die refusing medical treatment.
They don't know what has happened....
And made no attempt at all to find out.
Precisely.
If you don't know what has happened then don't deny medical treatment to people who need it.
That should be the #1 rule in conflict engagement. People talk about the militarisation of the Police but I doubt the military would push a medic off someone who has been shot with no alternative medic available.
The #1 rule in "conflict engagement" should be that if you don't know what has happened you believe randoms on the street who say they are medics and allow them near casualties.
Dear sweet jesus fucking christ.
Absolutely if there's no other medics available and they're busy providing medical treatment.
So you're perfectly fucking content to watch someone die because you have no medic of your own treat them and watching them die is better than letting a medic you don't know treat them? It would be different if the Police had their own medic on the scene who took over instead but they didn't. This man is dead as a result.
Graphic video warning - the cops here attack and push away a medic from treating someone who has been shot. They have no other medic to treat him and he dies.
These monsters are not normal. There is no way a British cop would push away a medic from treating someone who needed it and just stand there and watch someone die refusing medical treatment.
A 46% rise in the attainment gap as we acknowledge that most schools didn't even get off the ground in terms of remote learning. You can be a bit cynical about the percentage and how it is measured but there is no doubt that the majority of schools failed the majority of pupils over the summer term and have done nothing since.
There seems a consensus that the exams will have to be delayed but very little constructive thought about what happens from there in terms of University applications and entrance. As my son will be going to University at the end of this school year I am watching with a fair degree of apprehension.
This is why the exams story played out as it did.
If they’d done this year’s exams as scheduled, or slightly delayed, the story would have been how disadvantaged students were ‘denied’ ‘their’ place at university, because the private schools and top Acadamies could offer distance learning and everyone had a computer.
It's why it always plays out that way. The algorithm was individually unfair but reflected the collective reality that our crap schools are, err, crap. Why the solution to that is giving prizes to all rather than actually focusing on the underlying problem of useless teaching and persistent under performance escapes me.
Ban private education. Task number 2 on the how to fix the UK in a generation or two list.
Please explain how you can do that in a free society.
A prescient article about Trump from 2016 but relevant to this year’s election. Also its analysis of how democracy can evolve into tyranny is pertinent here.
Gosh - remarkable article, even if long. While I start from a different place from the author (who is so elitist that he flirts with regret that the francvhise was expanded beyond property-owners), he is spot on about how Trump has succeeded and evolved.
Yes - I raised an eyebrow at that. Still, the concerns about how the weaknesses in democracy or in the societies where it happens can lead to people in charge who care not a fig for democracy are well said. We should pay more attention to them. It is something which has been bothering me for a while. My own modest contributions earlier this year are here:-
Graphic video warning - the cops here attack and push away a medic from treating someone who has been shot. They have no other medic to treat him and he dies.
These monsters are not normal. There is no way a British cop would push away a medic from treating someone who needed it and just stand there and watch someone die refusing medical treatment.
They don't know what has happened....
And made no attempt at all to find out.
They just arrived on the scene, tried to sterilise the area getting rid of people they didn't know, and then who knows what happened.
Do you?
How does "sterilising" the area of medics help with no other medics are available?
Can I just say thanks to @Scott_P for that link to Biden, perfectly acceptable in the circumstances, yesterday. Its pretty much gone viral in my family and friends. Sums up the situation exactly.
You've got to wonder if all of what they portray ("This guy is just a regular American like you") might not give him his appeal, anyway.
In the USA, you don't head back into your car if the police have firearms drawn on you.
In the USA I think I'd avoid police officers like the plague and lie on the ground with my hands behind my back reflexively if they ever came up to me saying, "British tourist! British tourist!".
It's highly variable and unpredictable. CHP were chill af but Tennessee State Troopers are fuckers. I once went full Smokey and the Bandit for the Virginia border rather than be pulled over by them a second time.
CHP? Do I have to Google every acronym you use?
California Highway Patrol. They pulled me over outside Fresno, called me "bro" and didn't give me a ticket because they liked my car.
Ah.
Well, that's what a Dacia Duster will do for you.
Base model Dusters are cool now. I'd have one if they didn't have the same towing capacity as an Invacar.
You of all people on this board will be eager to hear that I have just purchased a set of GENUINE CLARKS RETAIL PACKAGED 70mm MOUNTAIN BIKE THREADED V BRAKE BLOCKS,MTB BRAKE PADS/SHOES BRAKE BLOCKS CP510 for my Apollo Highway.
Sorry to shout, I cut and pasted. But they are the first brake pads I have needed since lockdown.
I wish. It was an Estoril Blue E36 M3 vert with two piece BBS wheels and a spectacularly unattractive male Naval Flight Officer in the passenger seat who was meant to have been looking for non squawking bogies.
Graphic video warning - the cops here attack and push away a medic from treating someone who has been shot. They have no other medic to treat him and he dies.
These monsters are not normal. There is no way a British cop would push away a medic from treating someone who needed it and just stand there and watch someone die refusing medical treatment.
They don't know what has happened....
And made no attempt at all to find out.
Precisely.
If you don't know what has happened then don't deny medical treatment to people who need it.
That should be the #1 rule in conflict engagement. People talk about the militarisation of the Police but I doubt the military would push a medic off someone who has been shot with no alternative medic available.
The #1 rule in "conflict engagement" should be that if you don't know what has happened you believe randoms on the street who say they are medics and allow them near casualties.
Dear sweet jesus fucking christ.
Absolutely if there's no other medics available and they're busy providing medical treatment.
So you're perfectly fucking content to watch someone die because you have no medic of your own treat them and watching them die is better than letting a medic you don't know treat them? It would be different if the Police had their own medic on the scene who took over instead but they didn't. This man is dead as a result.
Jesus fucking Christ.
You need to be kept at your keyboard and away from any situation where there are actually operational decisions to be made.
You are great at the keyboard thing but would be an absolute fucking disaster anywhere else, which is just as well as you seem to be at your keyboard all fucking day.
Graphic video warning - the cops here attack and push away a medic from treating someone who has been shot. They have no other medic to treat him and he dies.
These monsters are not normal. There is no way a British cop would push away a medic from treating someone who needed it and just stand there and watch someone die refusing medical treatment.
They don't know what has happened....
And made no attempt at all to find out.
Precisely.
If you don't know what has happened then don't deny medical treatment to people who need it.
That should be the #1 rule in conflict engagement. People talk about the militarisation of the Police but I doubt the military would push a medic off someone who has been shot with no alternative medic available.
The #1 rule in "conflict engagement" should be that if you don't know what has happened you believe randoms on the street who say they are medics and allow them near casualties.
Dear sweet jesus fucking christ.
Absolutely if there's no other medics available and they're busy providing medical treatment.
So you're perfectly fucking content to watch someone die because you have no medic of your own treat them and watching them die is better than letting a medic you don't know treat them? It would be different if the Police had their own medic on the scene who took over instead but they didn't. This man is dead as a result.
Jesus fucking Christ.
You need to be kept at your keyboard and away from any situation where there are actually operational decisions to be made.
You are great at the keyboard thing but would be an absolute fucking disaster anywhere else, which is just as well as you seem to be at your keyboard all fucking day.
So you'd rather deny medical treatment to a man with a bullet wound than have him be treated?
Funny even his white supremacist friends in the video were happy to have a black medic there treating him once they realised she was a medic. The cops though just denied him medical treatment and watched him die instead. Maybe that man would have died anyway, or maybe he would still be alive today if he'd been able to receive prompt medical treatment.
But yeah just throw insults around. You've not given a reason yet why denying medical treatment is superior.
Graphic video warning - the cops here attack and push away a medic from treating someone who has been shot. They have no other medic to treat him and he dies.
These monsters are not normal. There is no way a British cop would push away a medic from treating someone who needed it and just stand there and watch someone die refusing medical treatment.
They don't know what has happened....
And made no attempt at all to find out.
They just arrived on the scene, tried to sterilise the area getting rid of people they didn't know, and then who knows what happened.
Do you?
How does "sterilising" the area of medics help with no other medics are available?
Fucking hell Philip you're smarter than this. Aren't you?
Scenario A: cops let self-declared medic attend to seemingly badly injured person who it turns out was only winded. Self-declared medic injects him with deadly compound by mistake and kills said wounded person stone dead.
Graphic video warning - the cops here attack and push away a medic from treating someone who has been shot. They have no other medic to treat him and he dies.
These monsters are not normal. There is no way a British cop would push away a medic from treating someone who needed it and just stand there and watch someone die refusing medical treatment.
They don't know what has happened, what the people standing over the guy on the ground are trying to do, or what the overall situation is and hence try to sterilise the area.
I mean I appreciate you have all the facts at hand and saw the previous 30 minutes in real time from several angles but I am not (yet) outraged.
Did you watch the video?
They pushed away a medic and kicked away her equipment despite it being extremely clearly audible that she was a medic trying to treat him. And the issue is not the past 30 minutes, that isn't what was relevant but they continued to stand over a dying man and refused to allow the medic back to treat him. It should take seconds to say "OK medic allowed here to treat him, everyone else away" but that didn't happen.
Under what circumstances is it OK to deny medical treatment?
When you are trying to create the circumstances to get Trump re-elected. None of these people - or indeed any people - are important to Trump. He could shoot people on 5th Avenue and still win...
For the first time in a while, I'm with @Philip_Thompson on this one. @Topping have you been institutionalised somewhere where 'sterlisation' takes precedent overtrying to actually you know, save someone's life ?
Graphic video warning - the cops here attack and push away a medic from treating someone who has been shot. They have no other medic to treat him and he dies.
These monsters are not normal. There is no way a British cop would push away a medic from treating someone who needed it and just stand there and watch someone die refusing medical treatment.
They don't know what has happened....
And made no attempt at all to find out.
Precisely.
If you don't know what has happened then don't deny medical treatment to people who need it.
That should be the #1 rule in conflict engagement. People talk about the militarisation of the Police but I doubt the military would push a medic off someone who has been shot with no alternative medic available.
The #1 rule in "conflict engagement" should be that if you don't know what has happened you believe randoms on the street who say they are medics and allow them near casualties.
Dear sweet jesus fucking christ.
Absolutely if there's no other medics available and they're busy providing medical treatment.
So you're perfectly fucking content to watch someone die because you have no medic of your own treat them and watching them die is better than letting a medic you don't know treat them? It would be different if the Police had their own medic on the scene who took over instead but they didn't. This man is dead as a result.
Jesus fucking Christ.
You need to be kept at your keyboard and away from any situation where there are actually operational decisions to be made.
You are great at the keyboard thing but would be an absolute fucking disaster anywhere else, which is just as well as you seem to be at your keyboard all fucking day.
So you'd rather deny medical treatment to a man with a bullet wound than have him be treated?
Funny even his white supremacist friends in the video were happy to have a black medic there treating him once they realised she was a medic. The cops though just denied him medical treatment and watched him die instead. Maybe that man would have died anyway, or maybe he would still be alive today if he'd been able to receive prompt medical treatment.
But yeah just throw insults around. You've not given a reason yet why denying medical treatment is superior.
Graphic video warning - the cops here attack and push away a medic from treating someone who has been shot. They have no other medic to treat him and he dies.
These monsters are not normal. There is no way a British cop would push away a medic from treating someone who needed it and just stand there and watch someone die refusing medical treatment.
https://www.themarshallproject.org/2017/03/30/when-warriors-put-on-the-badge …Today just 6 percent of the population at large has served in the military, but 19 percent of police officers are veterans, according to an analysis of U.S. Census data performed by Gregory B. Lewis and Rahul Pathak of Georgia State University for The Marshall Project. It is the third most common occupation for vets behind truck driving and management…
Military to Police Force: A Natural Transition? https://www.military.com/veteran-jobs/search/law-enforcement-jobs/military-transition-to-police-force.html …”(Working as) a cop would be my fallback if I can't do something else," said Disla, who has served three deployments of 10 months or longer to Iraq and Afghanistan, "simply because I was an infantryman and those are my skills. Anything you want to see in a soldier, you want to see in a policeman.”…
You of all people on this board will be eager to hear that I have just purchased a set of GENUINE CLARKS RETAIL PACKAGED 70mm MOUNTAIN BIKE THREADED V BRAKE BLOCKS,MTB BRAKE PADS/SHOES BRAKE BLOCKS CP510 for my Apollo Highway.
Sorry to shout, I cut and pasted. But they are the first brake pads I have needed since lockdown.
Gateway drug. You are 6 months away from getting a pair of Look Keo Blade Carbon pedals. (RRP £289.99)
Graphic video warning - the cops here attack and push away a medic from treating someone who has been shot. They have no other medic to treat him and he dies.
These monsters are not normal. There is no way a British cop would push away a medic from treating someone who needed it and just stand there and watch someone die refusing medical treatment.
They don't know what has happened....
And made no attempt at all to find out.
They just arrived on the scene, tried to sterilise the area getting rid of people they didn't know, and then who knows what happened.
Do you?
How does "sterilising" the area of medics help with no other medics are available?
Fucking hell Philip you're smarter than this. Aren't you?
Scenario A: cops let self-declared medic attend to seemingly badly injured person who it turns out was only winded. Self-declared medic injects him with deadly compound by mistake and kills said wounded person stone dead.
Then what?
Throw around all the hypothetical scenarios you want, the man was f***ing shot and the cops knew that and they had no medic on scene. Prompt medical attention when someone has been shot can save someone's life.
If they had their own medic on scene who could treat him instead that would be different. They didn't and now he's dead.
You of all people on this board will be eager to hear that I have just purchased a set of GENUINE CLARKS RETAIL PACKAGED 70mm MOUNTAIN BIKE THREADED V BRAKE BLOCKS,MTB BRAKE PADS/SHOES BRAKE BLOCKS CP510 for my Apollo Highway.
Sorry to shout, I cut and pasted. But they are the first brake pads I have needed since lockdown.
Gateway drug. You are 6 months away from getting a pair of Look Keo Blade Carbon pedals. (RRP £289.99)
I ponder at length the idea of having a super high-fandangle carbon doo-dah bike made for me. To look exactly like an Apollo Highway.
For the first time in a while, I'm with @Philip_Thompson on this one. @Topping have you been institutionalised somewhere where 'sterlisation' takes precedent overtrying to actually you know, save someone's life ?
For the first time in a while, I'm with @Philip_Thompson on this one. @Topping have you been institutionalised somewhere where 'sterlisation' takes precedent overtrying to actually you know, save someone's life ?
Again same point to you. A self-declared medic attends some mildly wounded person and by mistake kills them. That a great outcome? What do we think people would say of 5-0 then?
For the first time in a while, I'm with @Philip_Thompson on this one. @Topping have you been institutionalised somewhere where 'sterlisation' takes precedent overtrying to actually you know, save someone's life ?
Glad we can agree on this one.
Which is why it's just as well you are both posting on an internet chat room and not getting involved in the situations you are so keenly able to judge from your keyboards.
Graphic video warning - the cops here attack and push away a medic from treating someone who has been shot. They have no other medic to treat him and he dies.
These monsters are not normal. There is no way a British cop would push away a medic from treating someone who needed it and just stand there and watch someone die refusing medical treatment.
They don't know what has happened....
And made no attempt at all to find out.
They just arrived on the scene, tried to sterilise the area getting rid of people they didn't know, and then who knows what happened.
Do you?
How does "sterilising" the area of medics help with no other medics are available?
Fucking hell Philip you're smarter than this. Aren't you?
Scenario A: cops let self-declared medic attend to seemingly badly injured person who it turns out was only winded. Self-declared medic injects him with deadly compound by mistake and kills said wounded person stone dead.
Then what?
So in your hypothetical scenario the person would die, and you think that is bad.
In the actual scenario that actually happened the person died.
In the USA, you don't head back into your car if the police have firearms drawn on you.
In the USA I think I'd avoid police officers like the plague and lie on the ground with my hands behind my back reflexively if they ever came up to me saying, "British tourist! British tourist!".
It's highly variable and unpredictable. CHP were chill af but Tennessee State Troopers are fuckers. I once went full Smokey and the Bandit for the Virginia border rather than be pulled over by them a second time.
CHP? Do I have to Google every acronym you use?
California Highway Patrol. They pulled me over outside Fresno, called me "bro" and didn't give me a ticket because they liked my car.
Ah.
Well, that's what a Dacia Duster will do for you.
Base model Dusters are cool now. I'd have one if they didn't have the same towing capacity as an Invacar.
Graphic video warning - the cops here attack and push away a medic from treating someone who has been shot. They have no other medic to treat him and he dies.
These monsters are not normal. There is no way a British cop would push away a medic from treating someone who needed it and just stand there and watch someone die refusing medical treatment.
They don't know what has happened....
And made no attempt at all to find out.
They just arrived on the scene, tried to sterilise the area getting rid of people they didn't know, and then who knows what happened.
Do you?
How does "sterilising" the area of medics help with no other medics are available?
Fucking hell Philip you're smarter than this. Aren't you?
Scenario A: cops let self-declared medic attend to seemingly badly injured person who it turns out was only winded. Self-declared medic injects him with deadly compound by mistake and kills said wounded person stone dead.
Then what?
Throw around all the hypothetical scenarios you want, the man was f***ing shot and the cops knew that and they had no medic on scene. Prompt medical attention when someone has been shot can save someone's life.
If they had their own medic on scene who could treat him instead that would be different. They didn't and now he's dead.
Such knowledge of everything surrounding the incident. What a seer of our times.
Or perhaps just a keyboard jerk making assumptions after the event with not 5% of the information but choosing the narrative that best suits their pre-conceived ideas.
Graphic video warning - the cops here attack and push away a medic from treating someone who has been shot. They have no other medic to treat him and he dies.
These monsters are not normal. There is no way a British cop would push away a medic from treating someone who needed it and just stand there and watch someone die refusing medical treatment.
They don't know what has happened....
And made no attempt at all to find out.
They just arrived on the scene, tried to sterilise the area getting rid of people they didn't know, and then who knows what happened.
Do you?
How does "sterilising" the area of medics help with no other medics are available?
Fucking hell Philip you're smarter than this. Aren't you?
Scenario A: cops let self-declared medic attend to seemingly badly injured person who it turns out was only winded. Self-declared medic injects him with deadly compound by mistake and kills said wounded person stone dead.
Then what?
Throw around all the hypothetical scenarios you want, the man was f***ing shot and the cops knew that and they had no medic on scene. Prompt medical attention when someone has been shot can save someone's life.
If they had their own medic on scene who could treat him instead that would be different. They didn't and now he's dead.
Yes, I find it really hard to imagine a situation where the police would pull a medic away from someone needing treatment here in Germany (unless the medic's life was in danger if they stayed there). If they had some reason to doubt the "self-declared medic" then I suppose they could ask to see ID. My wife has a card in her wallet identifying her as a doctor, though nobody has ever asked to see it on the occasions when she has come across people needing treatment.
For the first time in a while, I'm with @Philip_Thompson on this one. @Topping have you been institutionalised somewhere where 'sterlisation' takes precedent overtrying to actually you know, save someone's life ?
Again same point to you. A self-declared medic attends some mildly wounded person and by mistake kills them. That a great outcome? What do we think people would say of 5-0 then?
https://www.themarshallproject.org/2017/03/30/when-warriors-put-on-the-badge …Today just 6 percent of the population at large has served in the military, but 19 percent of police officers are veterans, according to an analysis of U.S. Census data performed by Gregory B. Lewis and Rahul Pathak of Georgia State University for The Marshall Project. It is the third most common occupation for vets behind truck driving and management…
Military to Police Force: A Natural Transition? https://www.military.com/veteran-jobs/search/law-enforcement-jobs/military-transition-to-police-force.html …”(Working as) a cop would be my fallback if I can't do something else," said Disla, who has served three deployments of 10 months or longer to Iraq and Afghanistan, "simply because I was an infantryman and those are my skills. Anything you want to see in a soldier, you want to see in a policeman.”…
Good idea. Loads of people with, sadly, PTSD, in uniforms with guns patrolling the streets.
Graphic video warning - the cops here attack and push away a medic from treating someone who has been shot. They have no other medic to treat him and he dies.
These monsters are not normal. There is no way a British cop would push away a medic from treating someone who needed it and just stand there and watch someone die refusing medical treatment.
They don't know what has happened....
And made no attempt at all to find out.
They just arrived on the scene, tried to sterilise the area getting rid of people they didn't know, and then who knows what happened.
Do you?
How does "sterilising" the area of medics help with no other medics are available?
Fucking hell Philip you're smarter than this. Aren't you?
Scenario A: cops let self-declared medic attend to seemingly badly injured person who it turns out was only winded. Self-declared medic injects him with deadly compound by mistake and kills said wounded person stone dead.
Then what?
So in your hypothetical scenario the person would die, and you think that is bad.
In the actual scenario that actually happened the person died.
The person would die while under supervision of the police department. That would be bad for any number of other reasons.
It could easily be that there are or in this instance were no good options. Let some random with a black bag who tells you they are a medic "attend" the injured, or clear all civilians away and wait for a medic you know to be a medic to arrive as per SOPs.
Graphic video warning - the cops here attack and push away a medic from treating someone who has been shot. They have no other medic to treat him and he dies.
These monsters are not normal. There is no way a British cop would push away a medic from treating someone who needed it and just stand there and watch someone die refusing medical treatment.
They don't know what has happened....
And made no attempt at all to find out.
They just arrived on the scene, tried to sterilise the area getting rid of people they didn't know, and then who knows what happened.
Do you?
How does "sterilising" the area of medics help with no other medics are available?
Fucking hell Philip you're smarter than this. Aren't you?
Scenario A: cops let self-declared medic attend to seemingly badly injured person who it turns out was only winded. Self-declared medic injects him with deadly compound by mistake and kills said wounded person stone dead.
Then what?
Throw around all the hypothetical scenarios you want, the man was f***ing shot and the cops knew that and they had no medic on scene. Prompt medical attention when someone has been shot can save someone's life.
If they had their own medic on scene who could treat him instead that would be different. They didn't and now he's dead.
Yes, I find it really hard to imagine a situation where the police would pull a medic away from someone needing treatment here in Germany (unless the medic's life was in danger if they stayed there). If they had some reason to doubt the "self-declared medic" then I suppose they could ask to see ID. My wife has a card in her wallet identifying her as a doctor, though nobody has ever asked to see it on the occasions when she has come across people needing treatment.
Indeed, I find it extremely hard to believe that over here either denying medical treatment to someone who needs it would be done - and agreed completely asking for ID would be reasonable but that isn't what was done.
Graphic video warning - the cops here attack and push away a medic from treating someone who has been shot. They have no other medic to treat him and he dies.
These monsters are not normal. There is no way a British cop would push away a medic from treating someone who needed it and just stand there and watch someone die refusing medical treatment.
They don't know what has happened....
And made no attempt at all to find out.
They just arrived on the scene, tried to sterilise the area getting rid of people they didn't know, and then who knows what happened.
Do you?
How does "sterilising" the area of medics help with no other medics are available?
Fucking hell Philip you're smarter than this. Aren't you?
Scenario A: cops let self-declared medic attend to seemingly badly injured person who it turns out was only winded. Self-declared medic injects him with deadly compound by mistake and kills said wounded person stone dead.
Then what?
So in your hypothetical scenario the person would die, and you think that is bad.
In the actual scenario that actually happened the person died.
The person would die while under supervision of the police department. That would be bad for any number of other reasons.
It could easily be that there are or in this instance were no good options. Let some random with a black bag who tells you they are a medic "attend" the injured, or clear all civilians away and wait for a medic you know to be a medic to arrive as per SOPs.
Jay did die under supervision of the Police department.
Because perhaps the Police refused Jay medical treatment.
Graphic video warning - the cops here attack and push away a medic from treating someone who has been shot. They have no other medic to treat him and he dies.
These monsters are not normal. There is no way a British cop would push away a medic from treating someone who needed it and just stand there and watch someone die refusing medical treatment.
They don't know what has happened....
And made no attempt at all to find out.
They just arrived on the scene, tried to sterilise the area getting rid of people they didn't know, and then who knows what happened.
Do you?
How does "sterilising" the area of medics help with no other medics are available?
Fucking hell Philip you're smarter than this. Aren't you?
Scenario A: cops let self-declared medic attend to seemingly badly injured person who it turns out was only winded. Self-declared medic injects him with deadly compound by mistake and kills said wounded person stone dead.
Then what?
Throw around all the hypothetical scenarios you want, the man was f***ing shot and the cops knew that and they had no medic on scene. Prompt medical attention when someone has been shot can save someone's life.
If they had their own medic on scene who could treat him instead that would be different. They didn't and now he's dead.
Yes, I find it really hard to imagine a situation where the police would pull a medic away from someone needing treatment here in Germany (unless the medic's life was in danger if they stayed there). If they had some reason to doubt the "self-declared medic" then I suppose they could ask to see ID. My wife has a card in her wallet identifying her as a doctor, though nobody has ever asked to see it on the occasions when she has come across people needing treatment.
Absolutely. On a train, bloke keels over from a suspected heart attack, "anyone on board a doctor?", one emerges, treats the injured, saves them, perhaps some CPR, all is well, the doctor's a hero and high-fiving the police officer.
From the clip is it reasonable to say that the "medic" emerged from the same crowd of protesters as the person on the ground? Do we know how, when, or by whom the person was shot? Do we think the police officers knew he was shot? Do we know anything apart from a curated clip which people are using to fit their narrative? No. We don't.
Graphic video warning - the cops here attack and push away a medic from treating someone who has been shot. They have no other medic to treat him and he dies.
These monsters are not normal. There is no way a British cop would push away a medic from treating someone who needed it and just stand there and watch someone die refusing medical treatment.
They don't know what has happened....
And made no attempt at all to find out.
They just arrived on the scene, tried to sterilise the area getting rid of people they didn't know, and then who knows what happened.
Do you?
How does "sterilising" the area of medics help with no other medics are available?
Fucking hell Philip you're smarter than this. Aren't you?
Scenario A: cops let self-declared medic attend to seemingly badly injured person who it turns out was only winded. Self-declared medic injects him with deadly compound by mistake and kills said wounded person stone dead.
Then what?
Throw around all the hypothetical scenarios you want, the man was f***ing shot and the cops knew that and they had no medic on scene. Prompt medical attention when someone has been shot can save someone's life.
If they had their own medic on scene who could treat him instead that would be different. They didn't and now he's dead.
Yes, I find it really hard to imagine a situation where the police would pull a medic away from someone needing treatment here in Germany (unless the medic's life was in danger if they stayed there). If they had some reason to doubt the "self-declared medic" then I suppose they could ask to see ID. My wife has a card in her wallet identifying her as a doctor, though nobody has ever asked to see it on the occasions when she has come across people needing treatment.
Nurses, doctors and paramedics, in just about every country I can think of, have photo id identifying themselves as etc etc.
Graphic video warning - the cops here attack and push away a medic from treating someone who has been shot. They have no other medic to treat him and he dies.
These monsters are not normal. There is no way a British cop would push away a medic from treating someone who needed it and just stand there and watch someone die refusing medical treatment.
They don't know what has happened....
And made no attempt at all to find out.
They just arrived on the scene, tried to sterilise the area getting rid of people they didn't know, and then who knows what happened.
Do you?
How does "sterilising" the area of medics help with no other medics are available?
Fucking hell Philip you're smarter than this. Aren't you?
Scenario A: cops let self-declared medic attend to seemingly badly injured person who it turns out was only winded. Self-declared medic injects him with deadly compound by mistake and kills said wounded person stone dead.
Then what?
Throw around all the hypothetical scenarios you want, the man was f***ing shot and the cops knew that and they had no medic on scene. Prompt medical attention when someone has been shot can save someone's life.
If they had their own medic on scene who could treat him instead that would be different. They didn't and now he's dead.
Yes, I find it really hard to imagine a situation where the police would pull a medic away from someone needing treatment here in Germany (unless the medic's life was in danger if they stayed there). If they had some reason to doubt the "self-declared medic" then I suppose they could ask to see ID. My wife has a card in her wallet identifying her as a doctor, though nobody has ever asked to see it on the occasions when she has come across people needing treatment.
Nurses, doctors and paramedics, in just about every country I can think of, have photo id identifying themselves as etc etc.
Of course they do. If she was asked for and had no Photo ID that would be one thing. She's wearing a red cross on her back to identify her as a medic but that doesn't prove anything, ask for ID that's reasonable.
But to deny medical treatment to someone they know has been shot? And can see is bleeding out?
Graphic video warning - the cops here attack and push away a medic from treating someone who has been shot. They have no other medic to treat him and he dies.
These monsters are not normal. There is no way a British cop would push away a medic from treating someone who needed it and just stand there and watch someone die refusing medical treatment.
They don't know what has happened....
And made no attempt at all to find out.
They just arrived on the scene, tried to sterilise the area getting rid of people they didn't know, and then who knows what happened.
Do you?
How does "sterilising" the area of medics help with no other medics are available?
Fucking hell Philip you're smarter than this. Aren't you?
Scenario A: cops let self-declared medic attend to seemingly badly injured person who it turns out was only winded. Self-declared medic injects him with deadly compound by mistake and kills said wounded person stone dead.
Then what?
So in your hypothetical scenario the person would die, and you think that is bad.
In the actual scenario that actually happened the person died.
The person would die while under supervision of the police department. That would be bad for any number of other reasons.
It could easily be that there are or in this instance were no good options. Let some random with a black bag who tells you they are a medic "attend" the injured, or clear all civilians away and wait for a medic you know to be a medic to arrive as per SOPs.
Jay did die under supervision of the Police department.
Because perhaps the Police refused Jay medical treatment.
You know nothing about the situation. Neither do I. But you have created a whole narrative where this is further proof of some kind of police oppression.
Looking at the footage I see nothing wrong. The police come, try to clear the area, then who knows? Call a medic they know to be a medic perhaps, or stand around pushing pencils into the bullet wounds of the guy on the ground, or...or....
We don't know. But let's just say that you being a keyboard warrior with zero experience of policing riots (I'm guessing) means that just about anything that you assume should be treated as absolute bollocks.
Re the thread. Are most US opinion polls conducted in such a way that they pick up enough military personnel in their sample? It might be difficult to contact people on military bases in the US, let alone overseas. If there is a problem, general polls may not be picking up Biden's net support from the military.
Graphic video warning - the cops here attack and push away a medic from treating someone who has been shot. They have no other medic to treat him and he dies.
These monsters are not normal. There is no way a British cop would push away a medic from treating someone who needed it and just stand there and watch someone die refusing medical treatment.
They don't know what has happened....
And made no attempt at all to find out.
They just arrived on the scene, tried to sterilise the area getting rid of people they didn't know, and then who knows what happened.
Do you?
How does "sterilising" the area of medics help with no other medics are available?
Fucking hell Philip you're smarter than this. Aren't you?
Scenario A: cops let self-declared medic attend to seemingly badly injured person who it turns out was only winded. Self-declared medic injects him with deadly compound by mistake and kills said wounded person stone dead.
Then what?
Throw around all the hypothetical scenarios you want, the man was f***ing shot and the cops knew that and they had no medic on scene. Prompt medical attention when someone has been shot can save someone's life.
If they had their own medic on scene who could treat him instead that would be different. They didn't and now he's dead.
Yes, I find it really hard to imagine a situation where the police would pull a medic away from someone needing treatment here in Germany (unless the medic's life was in danger if they stayed there). If they had some reason to doubt the "self-declared medic" then I suppose they could ask to see ID. My wife has a card in her wallet identifying her as a doctor, though nobody has ever asked to see it on the occasions when she has come across people needing treatment.
Absolutely. On a train, bloke keels over from a suspected heart attack, "anyone on board a doctor?", one emerges, treats the injured, saves them, perhaps some CPR, all is well, the doctor's a hero and high-fiving the police officer.
From the clip is it reasonable to say that the "medic" emerged from the same crowd of protesters as the person on the ground? Do we know how, when, or by whom the person was shot? Do we think the police officers knew he was shot? Do we know anything apart from a curated clip which people are using to fit their narrative? No. We don't.
I'm not quite sure what you are suggesting here. That someone was shot, and then someone else (or maybe the same person?), who was already prepared with black bag and fatal injection kit ran up to murder the injured person while pretending to be a medic? While surrounded by the police? Or that such a scenario would be a reasonable assumption by the police?
From the clip is it reasonable to say that the "medic" emerged from the same crowd of protesters as the person on the ground? She wasn't actually, like Pat Hutchinson she was on the 'other side'
Do we know how, when, or by whom the person was shot? That's irrelevant at that precise point, a man has been shot and needs assistance, Do we think the police officers knew he was shot? Half a second's observation should have told then that Do we know anything apart from a curated clip which people are using to fit their narrative? The slip isn't 'curated' - it's shown as is. Clear away the others, but leave the medic till a trained medic can arrive strikes me as what should be normal procedure.
Graphic video warning - the cops here attack and push away a medic from treating someone who has been shot. They have no other medic to treat him and he dies.
These monsters are not normal. There is no way a British cop would push away a medic from treating someone who needed it and just stand there and watch someone die refusing medical treatment.
They don't know what has happened....
And made no attempt at all to find out.
They just arrived on the scene, tried to sterilise the area getting rid of people they didn't know, and then who knows what happened.
Do you?
How does "sterilising" the area of medics help with no other medics are available?
Fucking hell Philip you're smarter than this. Aren't you?
Scenario A: cops let self-declared medic attend to seemingly badly injured person who it turns out was only winded. Self-declared medic injects him with deadly compound by mistake and kills said wounded person stone dead.
Then what?
Throw around all the hypothetical scenarios you want, the man was f***ing shot and the cops knew that and they had no medic on scene. Prompt medical attention when someone has been shot can save someone's life.
If they had their own medic on scene who could treat him instead that would be different. They didn't and now he's dead.
Yes, I find it really hard to imagine a situation where the police would pull a medic away from someone needing treatment here in Germany (unless the medic's life was in danger if they stayed there). If they had some reason to doubt the "self-declared medic" then I suppose they could ask to see ID. My wife has a card in her wallet identifying her as a doctor, though nobody has ever asked to see it on the occasions when she has come across people needing treatment.
Absolutely. On a train, bloke keels over from a suspected heart attack, "anyone on board a doctor?", one emerges, treats the injured, saves them, perhaps some CPR, all is well, the doctor's a hero and high-fiving the police officer.
From the clip is it reasonable to say that the "medic" emerged from the same crowd of protesters as the person on the ground? Do we know how, when, or by whom the person was shot? Do we think the police officers knew he was shot? Do we know anything apart from a curated clip which people are using to fit their narrative? No. We don't.
I'm not quite sure what you are suggesting here. That someone was shot, and then someone else (or maybe the same person?), who was already prepared with black bag and fatal injection kit ran up to murder the injured person while pretending to be a medic? While surrounded by the police? Or that such a scenario would be a reasonable assumption by the police?
You have no idea what happened before or after that clip.
In the USA, you don't head back into your car if the police have firearms drawn on you.
In the USA I think I'd avoid police officers like the plague and lie on the ground with my hands behind my back reflexively if they ever came up to me saying, "British tourist! British tourist!".
It's highly variable and unpredictable. CHP were chill af but Tennessee State Troopers are fuckers. I once went full Smokey and the Bandit for the Virginia border rather than be pulled over by them a second time.
CHP? Do I have to Google every acronym you use?
California Highway Patrol. They pulled me over outside Fresno, called me "bro" and didn't give me a ticket because they liked my car.
Ah.
Well, that's what a Dacia Duster will do for you.
I had a good experience with the California Highway Patrol once when I was in a minor accident there. They were very polite and helpful. Full marks.
For the first time in a while, I'm with @Philip_Thompson on this one. @Topping have you been institutionalised somewhere where 'sterlisation' takes precedent overtrying to actually you know, save someone's life ?
Again same point to you. A self-declared medic attends some mildly wounded person and by mistake kills them. That a great outcome? What do we think people would say of 5-0 then?
Because of some of the things I am involved with, I have had basic medical training involving CPR, wound management and hypothermia management.
During the courses it is emphasized that non-treatment can kill, sometimes treatment can kill. People even die with professional medics involved. There are no guarantees.
If I was helping/treating someone and I was kicked away and they died, I would be looking to charge the "kicker" with manslaughter.
Graphic video warning - the cops here attack and push away a medic from treating someone who has been shot. They have no other medic to treat him and he dies.
These monsters are not normal. There is no way a British cop would push away a medic from treating someone who needed it and just stand there and watch someone die refusing medical treatment.
They don't know what has happened....
And made no attempt at all to find out.
They just arrived on the scene, tried to sterilise the area getting rid of people they didn't know, and then who knows what happened.
Do you?
How does "sterilising" the area of medics help with no other medics are available?
Fucking hell Philip you're smarter than this. Aren't you?
Scenario A: cops let self-declared medic attend to seemingly badly injured person who it turns out was only winded. Self-declared medic injects him with deadly compound by mistake and kills said wounded person stone dead.
Then what?
Throw around all the hypothetical scenarios you want, the man was f***ing shot and the cops knew that and they had no medic on scene. Prompt medical attention when someone has been shot can save someone's life.
If they had their own medic on scene who could treat him instead that would be different. They didn't and now he's dead.
Yes, I find it really hard to imagine a situation where the police would pull a medic away from someone needing treatment here in Germany (unless the medic's life was in danger if they stayed there). If they had some reason to doubt the "self-declared medic" then I suppose they could ask to see ID. My wife has a card in her wallet identifying her as a doctor, though nobody has ever asked to see it on the occasions when she has come across people needing treatment.
Absolutely. On a train, bloke keels over from a suspected heart attack, "anyone on board a doctor?", one emerges, treats the injured, saves them, perhaps some CPR, all is well, the doctor's a hero and high-fiving the police officer.
From the clip is it reasonable to say that the "medic" emerged from the same crowd of protesters as the person on the ground? Do we know how, when, or by whom the person was shot? Do we think the police officers knew he was shot? Do we know anything apart from a curated clip which people are using to fit their narrative? No. We don't.
I'm not quite sure what you are suggesting here. That someone was shot, and then someone else (or maybe the same person?), who was already prepared with black bag and fatal injection kit ran up to murder the injured person while pretending to be a medic? While surrounded by the police? Or that such a scenario would be a reasonable assumption by the police?
You have no idea what happened before or after that clip.
Yes we do. After the Police forced the medic away from the man with a bullet wound, he bled to death.
Graphic video warning - the cops here attack and push away a medic from treating someone who has been shot. They have no other medic to treat him and he dies.
These monsters are not normal. There is no way a British cop would push away a medic from treating someone who needed it and just stand there and watch someone die refusing medical treatment.
They don't know what has happened....
And made no attempt at all to find out.
They just arrived on the scene, tried to sterilise the area getting rid of people they didn't know, and then who knows what happened.
Do you?
How does "sterilising" the area of medics help with no other medics are available?
Fucking hell Philip you're smarter than this. Aren't you?
Scenario A: cops let self-declared medic attend to seemingly badly injured person who it turns out was only winded. Self-declared medic injects him with deadly compound by mistake and kills said wounded person stone dead.
Then what?
Throw around all the hypothetical scenarios you want, the man was f***ing shot and the cops knew that and they had no medic on scene. Prompt medical attention when someone has been shot can save someone's life.
If they had their own medic on scene who could treat him instead that would be different. They didn't and now he's dead.
Yes, I find it really hard to imagine a situation where the police would pull a medic away from someone needing treatment here in Germany (unless the medic's life was in danger if they stayed there). If they had some reason to doubt the "self-declared medic" then I suppose they could ask to see ID. My wife has a card in her wallet identifying her as a doctor, though nobody has ever asked to see it on the occasions when she has come across people needing treatment.
Absolutely. On a train, bloke keels over from a suspected heart attack, "anyone on board a doctor?", one emerges, treats the injured, saves them, perhaps some CPR, all is well, the doctor's a hero and high-fiving the police officer.
From the clip is it reasonable to say that the "medic" emerged from the same crowd of protesters as the person on the ground? Do we know how, when, or by whom the person was shot? Do we think the police officers knew he was shot? Do we know anything apart from a curated clip which people are using to fit their narrative? No. We don't.
I'm not quite sure what you are suggesting here. That someone was shot, and then someone else (or maybe the same person?), who was already prepared with black bag and fatal injection kit ran up to murder the injured person while pretending to be a medic? While surrounded by the police? Or that such a scenario would be a reasonable assumption by the police?
I'll say this again. I looked at the clip and I see nothing wrong. The police approach some guy on the ground, try to clear the area (which includes pushing away someone with a Black Sabbath red cross on their back) and then that's all.
But from this we can determine all kinds of shoulda, woulda, couldas. Not realistic.
A well-trained, highly professional, extremely disciplined force would act in the way Topping describes. However, there is very little that we have seen from the US recently to suggest that police officers there have that level of training, restraint and judgment. That is the problem. Too many of them are not physically, temprementally or emotionally equipped to deal with the kind of high pressure situations that a highly fragmented, racially divided, armed up to the eyeballs society produces as a matter of routine.
Graphic video warning - the cops here attack and push away a medic from treating someone who has been shot. They have no other medic to treat him and he dies.
These monsters are not normal. There is no way a British cop would push away a medic from treating someone who needed it and just stand there and watch someone die refusing medical treatment.
They don't know what has happened....
And made no attempt at all to find out.
They just arrived on the scene, tried to sterilise the area getting rid of people they didn't know, and then who knows what happened.
Do you?
How does "sterilising" the area of medics help with no other medics are available?
Fucking hell Philip you're smarter than this. Aren't you?
Scenario A: cops let self-declared medic attend to seemingly badly injured person who it turns out was only winded. Self-declared medic injects him with deadly compound by mistake and kills said wounded person stone dead.
Then what?
Throw around all the hypothetical scenarios you want, the man was f***ing shot and the cops knew that and they had no medic on scene. Prompt medical attention when someone has been shot can save someone's life.
If they had their own medic on scene who could treat him instead that would be different. They didn't and now he's dead.
Yes, I find it really hard to imagine a situation where the police would pull a medic away from someone needing treatment here in Germany (unless the medic's life was in danger if they stayed there). If they had some reason to doubt the "self-declared medic" then I suppose they could ask to see ID. My wife has a card in her wallet identifying her as a doctor, though nobody has ever asked to see it on the occasions when she has come across people needing treatment.
Absolutely. On a train, bloke keels over from a suspected heart attack, "anyone on board a doctor?", one emerges, treats the injured, saves them, perhaps some CPR, all is well, the doctor's a hero and high-fiving the police officer.
From the clip is it reasonable to say that the "medic" emerged from the same crowd of protesters as the person on the ground? Do we know how, when, or by whom the person was shot? Do we think the police officers knew he was shot? Do we know anything apart from a curated clip which people are using to fit their narrative? No. We don't.
I'm not quite sure what you are suggesting here. That someone was shot, and then someone else (or maybe the same person?), who was already prepared with black bag and fatal injection kit ran up to murder the injured person while pretending to be a medic? While surrounded by the police? Or that such a scenario would be a reasonable assumption by the police?
You have no idea what happened before or after that clip.
Neither do you. I am just asking you what you are suggesting that would justify the police pulling someone away from treating an injured person, because it sounds very much like you are suggesting the (imho totally implausible) scenario above. If you are suggesting something else please share.
Graphic video warning - the cops here attack and push away a medic from treating someone who has been shot. They have no other medic to treat him and he dies.
These monsters are not normal. There is no way a British cop would push away a medic from treating someone who needed it and just stand there and watch someone die refusing medical treatment.
They don't know what has happened....
And made no attempt at all to find out.
They just arrived on the scene, tried to sterilise the area getting rid of people they didn't know, and then who knows what happened.
Do you?
How does "sterilising" the area of medics help with no other medics are available?
Fucking hell Philip you're smarter than this. Aren't you?
Scenario A: cops let self-declared medic attend to seemingly badly injured person who it turns out was only winded. Self-declared medic injects him with deadly compound by mistake and kills said wounded person stone dead.
Then what?
Throw around all the hypothetical scenarios you want, the man was f***ing shot and the cops knew that and they had no medic on scene. Prompt medical attention when someone has been shot can save someone's life.
If they had their own medic on scene who could treat him instead that would be different. They didn't and now he's dead.
Yes, I find it really hard to imagine a situation where the police would pull a medic away from someone needing treatment here in Germany (unless the medic's life was in danger if they stayed there). If they had some reason to doubt the "self-declared medic" then I suppose they could ask to see ID. My wife has a card in her wallet identifying her as a doctor, though nobody has ever asked to see it on the occasions when she has come across people needing treatment.
Absolutely. On a train, bloke keels over from a suspected heart attack, "anyone on board a doctor?", one emerges, treats the injured, saves them, perhaps some CPR, all is well, the doctor's a hero and high-fiving the police officer.
From the clip is it reasonable to say that the "medic" emerged from the same crowd of protesters as the person on the ground? Do we know how, when, or by whom the person was shot? Do we think the police officers knew he was shot? Do we know anything apart from a curated clip which people are using to fit their narrative? No. We don't.
I'm not quite sure what you are suggesting here. That someone was shot, and then someone else (or maybe the same person?), who was already prepared with black bag and fatal injection kit ran up to murder the injured person while pretending to be a medic? While surrounded by the police? Or that such a scenario would be a reasonable assumption by the police?
I'll say this again. I looked at the clip and I see nothing wrong
No wonder things went so badly in Northern Ireland.
For the first time in a while, I'm with @Philip_Thompson on this one. @Topping have you been institutionalised somewhere where 'sterlisation' takes precedent overtrying to actually you know, save someone's life ?
Again same point to you. A self-declared medic attends some mildly wounded person and by mistake kills them. That a great outcome? What do we think people would say of 5-0 then?
Because of some of the things I am involved with, I have had basic medical training involving CPR, wound management and hypothermia management.
During the courses it is emphasized that non-treatment can kill, sometimes treatment can kill. People even die with professional medics involved. There are no guarantees.
If I was helping/treating someone and I was kicked away and they died, I would be looking to charge the "kicker" with manslaughter.
Doesn't alter my point. The police arrive, see someone on the ground, and try to clear the area.
And your point also supports mine. There are so many different variables around treating someone including an assessment of their injuries and the decision about whether to treat them at all, that this particular incident shows nothing including some evil intent by the police. Which there may have been but which is not shown in the clip.
In the USA of course all medics are required to be licensed and all medics carry Photo ID and also must undergo regular renewals of their license.
Impersonating a medic is a crime, so why someone would do that when surrounded by cops is beyond me. The fact is a licensed medic was there and the Police did not have a medic with them, now the man is dead. They could have asked her for her ID, or allowed her to resume giving medical treatment after they realised what was going on but instead they just prevented him from getting medical treatment.
Graphic video warning - the cops here attack and push away a medic from treating someone who has been shot. They have no other medic to treat him and he dies.
These monsters are not normal. There is no way a British cop would push away a medic from treating someone who needed it and just stand there and watch someone die refusing medical treatment.
They don't know what has happened....
And made no attempt at all to find out.
They just arrived on the scene, tried to sterilise the area getting rid of people they didn't know, and then who knows what happened.
Do you?
How does "sterilising" the area of medics help with no other medics are available?
Fucking hell Philip you're smarter than this. Aren't you?
Scenario A: cops let self-declared medic attend to seemingly badly injured person who it turns out was only winded. Self-declared medic injects him with deadly compound by mistake and kills said wounded person stone dead.
Then what?
Throw around all the hypothetical scenarios you want, the man was f***ing shot and the cops knew that and they had no medic on scene. Prompt medical attention when someone has been shot can save someone's life.
If they had their own medic on scene who could treat him instead that would be different. They didn't and now he's dead.
Yes, I find it really hard to imagine a situation where the police would pull a medic away from someone needing treatment here in Germany (unless the medic's life was in danger if they stayed there). If they had some reason to doubt the "self-declared medic" then I suppose they could ask to see ID. My wife has a card in her wallet identifying her as a doctor, though nobody has ever asked to see it on the occasions when she has come across people needing treatment.
Absolutely. On a train, bloke keels over from a suspected heart attack, "anyone on board a doctor?", one emerges, treats the injured, saves them, perhaps some CPR, all is well, the doctor's a hero and high-fiving the police officer.
From the clip is it reasonable to say that the "medic" emerged from the same crowd of protesters as the person on the ground? Do we know how, when, or by whom the person was shot? Do we think the police officers knew he was shot? Do we know anything apart from a curated clip which people are using to fit their narrative? No. We don't.
I'm not quite sure what you are suggesting here. That someone was shot, and then someone else (or maybe the same person?), who was already prepared with black bag and fatal injection kit ran up to murder the injured person while pretending to be a medic? While surrounded by the police? Or that such a scenario would be a reasonable assumption by the police?
You have no idea what happened before or after that clip.
Yes we do. After the Police forced the medic away from the man with a bullet wound, he bled to death.
That is what happened.
Hindsight if of course catnip to keyboard warriorslaw enforcement officers criminal investigation personnel.
For the first time in a while, I'm with @Philip_Thompson on this one. @Topping have you been institutionalised somewhere where 'sterlisation' takes precedent overtrying to actually you know, save someone's life ?
Again same point to you. A self-declared medic attends some mildly wounded person and by mistake kills them. That a great outcome? What do we think people would say of 5-0 then?
Because of some of the things I am involved with, I have had basic medical training involving CPR, wound management and hypothermia management.
During the courses it is emphasized that non-treatment can kill, sometimes treatment can kill. People even die with professional medics involved. There are no guarantees.
If I was helping/treating someone and I was kicked away and they died, I would be looking to charge the "kicker" with manslaughter.
Doesn't alter my point. The police arrive, see someone on the ground, and try to clear the area.
And your point also supports mine. There are so many different variables around treating someone including an assessment of their injuries and the decision about whether to treat them at all, that this particular incident shows nothing including some evil intent by the police. Which there may have been but which is not shown in the clip.
There are different variables which is why you let the medic determine the treatment and first aid. The Police did not have a medic with them but there was one on the scene giving aid.
The Tories in Scotland have been (mal)formed by decades of imposing their policies here rather than getting consent for them. They've forgotten the first rule of politics which is that your promises have to have a semblance of plausibility.
Shouldn't be surprised if the number of new lanes that they're promising on the M8 is into double figures by next May.
What was this amendment he is alleged to have vote against?
Graphic video warning - the cops here attack and push away a medic from treating someone who has been shot. They have no other medic to treat him and he dies.
These monsters are not normal. There is no way a British cop would push away a medic from treating someone who needed it and just stand there and watch someone die refusing medical treatment.
They don't know what has happened....
And made no attempt at all to find out.
They just arrived on the scene, tried to sterilise the area getting rid of people they didn't know, and then who knows what happened.
Do you?
How does "sterilising" the area of medics help with no other medics are available?
Fucking hell Philip you're smarter than this. Aren't you?
Scenario A: cops let self-declared medic attend to seemingly badly injured person who it turns out was only winded. Self-declared medic injects him with deadly compound by mistake and kills said wounded person stone dead.
Then what?
Throw around all the hypothetical scenarios you want, the man was f***ing shot and the cops knew that and they had no medic on scene. Prompt medical attention when someone has been shot can save someone's life.
If they had their own medic on scene who could treat him instead that would be different. They didn't and now he's dead.
Yes, I find it really hard to imagine a situation where the police would pull a medic away from someone needing treatment here in Germany (unless the medic's life was in danger if they stayed there). If they had some reason to doubt the "self-declared medic" then I suppose they could ask to see ID. My wife has a card in her wallet identifying her as a doctor, though nobody has ever asked to see it on the occasions when she has come across people needing treatment.
Absolutely. On a train, bloke keels over from a suspected heart attack, "anyone on board a doctor?", one emerges, treats the injured, saves them, perhaps some CPR, all is well, the doctor's a hero and high-fiving the police officer.
From the clip is it reasonable to say that the "medic" emerged from the same crowd of protesters as the person on the ground? Do we know how, when, or by whom the person was shot? Do we think the police officers knew he was shot? Do we know anything apart from a curated clip which people are using to fit their narrative? No. We don't.
I'm not quite sure what you are suggesting here. That someone was shot, and then someone else (or maybe the same person?), who was already prepared with black bag and fatal injection kit ran up to murder the injured person while pretending to be a medic? While surrounded by the police? Or that such a scenario would be a reasonable assumption by the police?
You have no idea what happened before or after that clip.
Neither do you. I am just asking you what you are suggesting that would justify the police pulling someone away from treating an injured person, because it sounds very much like you are suggesting the (imho totally implausible) scenario above. If you are suggesting something else please share.
I am saying the police arrived upon someone on the ground for reasons they might have had no idea about. Standing over that person was someone else, who self-identified as a medic. So they cleared the area. Perhaps to take stock, perhaps to call a police medic, perhaps...
What they probably couldn't do is to allow the situation to continue with someone unknown apparently wounded and someone else unknown doing something to that person with no oversight whatsoever.
For the first time in a while, I'm with @Philip_Thompson on this one. @Topping have you been institutionalised somewhere where 'sterlisation' takes precedent overtrying to actually you know, save someone's life ?
Again same point to you. A self-declared medic attends some mildly wounded person and by mistake kills them. That a great outcome? What do we think people would say of 5-0 then?
Because of some of the things I am involved with, I have had basic medical training involving CPR, wound management and hypothermia management.
During the courses it is emphasized that non-treatment can kill, sometimes treatment can kill. People even die with professional medics involved. There are no guarantees.
If I was helping/treating someone and I was kicked away and they died, I would be looking to charge the "kicker" with manslaughter.
Doesn't alter my point. The police arrive, see someone on the ground, and try to clear the area.
And your point also supports mine. There are so many different variables around treating someone including an assessment of their injuries and the decision about whether to treat them at all, that this particular incident shows nothing including some evil intent by the police. Which there may have been but which is not shown in the clip.
There are different variables which is why you let the medic determine the treatment and first aid. The Police did not have a medic with them but there was one on the scene giving aid.
In a highly volatile situation I can perfectly understand why the police decided not to just let the self-declared medic do their thing. Did she wave her legally-mandated to carry ID at them? No idea. Perhaps you know. Even if she did, I would want to take control of the situation before I let anyone near a casualty.
Graphic video warning - the cops here attack and push away a medic from treating someone who has been shot. They have no other medic to treat him and he dies.
These monsters are not normal. There is no way a British cop would push away a medic from treating someone who needed it and just stand there and watch someone die refusing medical treatment.
They don't know what has happened....
And made no attempt at all to find out.
They just arrived on the scene, tried to sterilise the area getting rid of people they didn't know, and then who knows what happened.
Do you?
How does "sterilising" the area of medics help with no other medics are available?
Fucking hell Philip you're smarter than this. Aren't you?
Scenario A: cops let self-declared medic attend to seemingly badly injured person who it turns out was only winded. Self-declared medic injects him with deadly compound by mistake and kills said wounded person stone dead.
Then what?
Throw around all the hypothetical scenarios you want, the man was f***ing shot and the cops knew that and they had no medic on scene. Prompt medical attention when someone has been shot can save someone's life.
If they had their own medic on scene who could treat him instead that would be different. They didn't and now he's dead.
Yes, I find it really hard to imagine a situation where the police would pull a medic away from someone needing treatment here in Germany (unless the medic's life was in danger if they stayed there). If they had some reason to doubt the "self-declared medic" then I suppose they could ask to see ID. My wife has a card in her wallet identifying her as a doctor, though nobody has ever asked to see it on the occasions when she has come across people needing treatment.
Absolutely. On a train, bloke keels over from a suspected heart attack, "anyone on board a doctor?", one emerges, treats the injured, saves them, perhaps some CPR, all is well, the doctor's a hero and high-fiving the police officer.
From the clip is it reasonable to say that the "medic" emerged from the same crowd of protesters as the person on the ground? Do we know how, when, or by whom the person was shot? Do we think the police officers knew he was shot? Do we know anything apart from a curated clip which people are using to fit their narrative? No. We don't.
I'm not quite sure what you are suggesting here. That someone was shot, and then someone else (or maybe the same person?), who was already prepared with black bag and fatal injection kit ran up to murder the injured person while pretending to be a medic? While surrounded by the police? Or that such a scenario would be a reasonable assumption by the police?
You have no idea what happened before or after that clip.
Neither do you. I am just asking you what you are suggesting that would justify the police pulling someone away from treating an injured person, because it sounds very much like you are suggesting the (imho totally implausible) scenario above. If you are suggesting something else please share.
I am saying the police arrived upon someone on the ground for reasons they might have had no idea about. Standing over that person was someone else, who self-identified as a medic. So they cleared the area. Perhaps to take stock, perhaps to call a police medic, perhaps...
What they probably couldn't do is to allow the situation to continue with someone unknown apparently wounded and someone else unknown doing something to that person with no oversight whatsoever.
People can't just self-identify as a medic. I can't just say "I'm a medic" when I'm not and that makes me one.
Medics are licensed professionals who have Photo ID and impersonating one can lead to a prison sentence. What self-identification is involved?
Take stock and allow the medic in to continue treatment after checking ID would be reasonable. Take stock and deny treatment altogether is not.
Comments
Graphic video warning - the cops here attack and push away a medic from treating someone who has been shot. They have no other medic to treat him and he dies.
https://twitter.com/GregoryMcKelvey/status/1300231439577837570
These monsters are not normal. There is no way a British cop would push away a medic from treating someone who needed it and just stand there and watch someone die refusing medical treatment.
Shouldn't be surprised if the number of new lanes that they're promising on the M8 is into double figures by next May.
If private education were banned then all that would happen is that some state schools would become private-equivalents and the property market in their catchment area would skyrocket and wealthy parents would buy a home in that catchment area, then sell it on after their children have graduated.
Oh wait, that already happens.
I'm not laying Trump anymore until I get a better sense of the race and the dynamics at ground level in the swing states.
It's a great article. It seems no lessons have been learnt about wealthy educated and successful soft-left graduates telling the poor disadvantaged working class they have white privilege though.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/aug/31/tory-plans-to-scrap-election-watchdog-undermines-democracy
In 2020 they're all inherently racist too.
Way to win an election.
I mean I appreciate you have all the facts at hand and saw the previous 30 minutes in real time from several angles but I am not (yet) outraged.
Well, that's what a Dacia Duster will do for you.
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/12/permafrozen-dinner/604069/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evA3_NV7cPM
They pushed away a medic and kicked away her equipment despite it being extremely clearly audible that she was a medic trying to treat him. And the issue is not the past 30 minutes, that isn't what was relevant but they continued to stand over a dying man and refused to allow the medic back to treat him. It should take seconds to say "OK medic allowed here to treat him, everyone else away" but that didn't happen.
https://twitter.com/tiredsierra/status/1300130924147781633
Under what circumstances is it OK to deny medical treatment?
*Yes, they were white.
If you don't know what has happened then don't deny medical treatment to people who need it.
That should be the #1 rule in conflict engagement. People talk about the militarisation of the Police but I doubt the military would push a medic off someone who has been shot with no alternative medic available.
Trump 17/20
Biden Evens.
Are you cool with random passers by interfering with seemingly wounded people. Just because they say everything's fine and they're trying to help?
Do you?
Are you cool with denying medical treatment when there's a medic available to treat them and watching someone bleed out instead because treatment is denied?
Voters will buy any old pish, if they like the salesman (or woman) enough.
Dear sweet jesus fucking christ.
So you're perfectly fucking content to watch someone die because you have no medic of your own treat them and watching them die is better than letting a medic you don't know treat them? It would be different if the Police had their own medic on the scene who took over instead but they didn't. This man is dead as a result.
Jesus fucking Christ.
No, they're not.
The photo - https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12544277/suspect-shooting-martyr-jay-bishop-maga-antifa-gun/ picture 5
She's pushed away by the MAGA guy near the start of the video but still goes back in to help Aaron.
https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2020/03/11/political-rights-and-wrongs/
https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2020/03/12/amber-warnings-what-might-be-the-signals-that-all-is-not-well-in-a-democracy/
Sorry to shout, I cut and pasted. But they are the first brake pads I have needed since lockdown.
I assume you saw this: record down to 25h39m now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOWn1WSYhVQ
You are great at the keyboard thing but would be an absolute fucking disaster anywhere else, which is just as well as you seem to be at your keyboard all fucking day.
Here endeth the sales lesson for today.
Funny even his white supremacist friends in the video were happy to have a black medic there treating him once they realised she was a medic. The cops though just denied him medical treatment and watched him die instead. Maybe that man would have died anyway, or maybe he would still be alive today if he'd been able to receive prompt medical treatment.
But yeah just throw insults around. You've not given a reason yet why denying medical treatment is superior.
Scenario A: cops let self-declared medic attend to seemingly badly injured person who it turns out was only winded. Self-declared medic injects him with deadly compound by mistake and kills said wounded person stone dead.
Then what?
The Police though clear her away and then stand over and watch him die instead.
Apparently that is superior because sterility is better than saving a man's life.
https://www.themarshallproject.org/2017/03/30/when-warriors-put-on-the-badge
…Today just 6 percent of the population at large has served in the military, but 19 percent of police officers are veterans, according to an analysis of U.S. Census data performed by Gregory B. Lewis and Rahul Pathak of Georgia State University for The Marshall Project. It is the third most common occupation for vets behind truck driving and management…
Military to Police Force: A Natural Transition?
https://www.military.com/veteran-jobs/search/law-enforcement-jobs/military-transition-to-police-force.html
…”(Working as) a cop would be my fallback if I can't do something else," said Disla, who has served three deployments of 10 months or longer to Iraq and Afghanistan, "simply because I was an infantryman and those are my skills. Anything you want to see in a soldier, you want to see in a policeman.”…
If they had their own medic on scene who could treat him instead that would be different. They didn't and now he's dead.
In the actual scenario that actually happened the person died.
https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1300676378723934209
Or perhaps just a keyboard jerk making assumptions after the event with not 5% of the information but choosing the narrative that best suits their pre-conceived ideas.
Perhaps.
It could easily be that there are or in this instance were no good options. Let some random with a black bag who tells you they are a medic "attend" the injured, or clear all civilians away and wait for a medic you know to be a medic to arrive as per SOPs.
Because perhaps the Police refused Jay medical treatment.
From the clip is it reasonable to say that the "medic" emerged from the same crowd of protesters as the person on the ground? Do we know how, when, or by whom the person was shot? Do we think the police officers knew he was shot? Do we know anything apart from a curated clip which people are using to fit their narrative? No. We don't.
https://twitter.com/paulhutcheon/status/1300696210383269889?s=20
But to deny medical treatment to someone they know has been shot? And can see is bleeding out?
Looking at the footage I see nothing wrong. The police come, try to clear the area, then who knows? Call a medic they know to be a medic perhaps, or stand around pushing pencils into the bullet wounds of the guy on the ground, or...or....
We don't know. But let's just say that you being a keyboard warrior with zero experience of policing riots (I'm guessing) means that just about anything that you assume should be treated as absolute bollocks.
During the courses it is emphasized that non-treatment can kill, sometimes treatment can kill. People even die with professional medics involved. There are no guarantees.
If I was helping/treating someone and I was kicked away and they died, I would be looking to charge the "kicker" with manslaughter.
That is what happened.
But from this we can determine all kinds of shoulda, woulda, couldas. Not realistic.
And your point also supports mine. There are so many different variables around treating someone including an assessment of their injuries and the decision about whether to treat them at all, that this particular incident shows nothing including some evil intent by the police. Which there may have been but which is not shown in the clip.
Impersonating a medic is a crime, so why someone would do that when surrounded by cops is beyond me. The fact is a licensed medic was there and the Police did not have a medic with them, now the man is dead. They could have asked her for her ID, or allowed her to resume giving medical treatment after they realised what was going on but instead they just prevented him from getting medical treatment.
keyboard warriorslaw enforcement officerscriminal investigation personnel.What they probably couldn't do is to allow the situation to continue with someone unknown apparently wounded and someone else unknown doing something to that person with no oversight whatsoever.
Medics are licensed professionals who have Photo ID and impersonating one can lead to a prison sentence. What self-identification is involved?
Take stock and allow the medic in to continue treatment after checking ID would be reasonable. Take stock and deny treatment altogether is not.