Precisely the point I made in the previous thread.
It's a thing.
I am increasingly convinced by my theory that Starmer, in 2024, will campaign to reenter EEA, or on a referendum to Rejoin the EU.
It is the only way he can solve his Scottish problem, and, besides, by then, it might be an EXTREMELY popular position.
I don't think he will. He will campaign for "closer links" and "more co-operation" but he won't poke the hornet's nest with a referendum to rejoin.
He might renegotiate EEA entry on the sly after 2024 though. Personally, I think he'll just add to and beef-up the FTA and give more migration rights.
But he needs something to solve his Scotch problem.
Sturgeon will win in 2021 and demand indyref 2; the Tories, facing very possible defeat in this, will clearly say No ("once in a generation"). Yes this may well stoke grievance, but if the alternative is the ACTUAL loss of the Union then a bit of grievance can be tolerated. It might even work to the advantage of London if the Nats go mad and declare UDI or whatever,
So, we reach 2024, and Starmer is doing well in the polls but winning a majority without Scotland seems impossible. And the Nats will demand indyref2 as the price of support.
But if Starmer offers the Scots, and everyone else, a rethink on EU membership, then suddenly Scots might look more kindly on him.
My bet is there is a decent majority in Scotland for staying in the UK if it comes with EU membership. Game changer for Labour in Scotland?
I'm with you on that until the final two paragraphs.
I'm not seeing a winning constituency, nationwide, on opening up the Brexit sore all over again in less than 4 years unless it's a complete and abject disaster.
It'd be more likely to shore up the Conservative vote whilst only tinkering at the margins in Scotland.
Precisely the point I made in the previous thread.
It's a thing.
I think they fear that Boris will get a deal and the world won't collapse so now they have to move onto the next thing that makes Brexit the worst thing to ever happen, including both world wars.
It's also completely self-defeating. If Scotland falls off then the political centre of balance of the rump British state shifts in a rightward and Eurosceptic direction. Thus, unless the old continuity Remain mob are planning on a mass march into exile in Edinburgh, they're shooting themselves in the foot.
They'll talk a lot about moving to Scotland, without actually doing it.
They might cheer on pulling down statues in England though, or something, to vent their frustration ad infinitum as Conservative Governments continue.
Labour still have a bit of work to do in the Midlands.
Labour has an enormous amount of work to do almost everywhere South of the Humber, save for inner London. The fact that the Tories aren't doing worse isn't merely, as was suggested earlier, a product of the extraordinary circumstances created by Brexit and the Plague. Labour also has a dreadful image problem.
I'm not sure about that.
Their brand of politics (wokeness, veganism, Greta-loving, "ist" obsessed, and open immigration mindset) is seeping into the home counties through the 20 and 30 somethings, and those 40 and early 50 somethings who want to impress them.
Don't see much evidence for that around here TBH, and this is Hertfordshire, not Cornwall or the Welsh Marches.
Besides, the more Starmer sucks up to his core vote with metro left-liberal policies, the worse his position in the rubble of the Red Wall becomes.
One of my pubs a few miles away has gone full vegan-twat. I went there on Monday and they had 3 vegan dishes on a 7 dish menu, one fish, and then just "burger", "chicken burger" or "steak" as the other options. And their website now proclaims their veganism.
Shit. I walked out. It's only a short step from that to all the staff wearing BLM t-shirts.
I'm close(ish) to trendy liberal SW surrey, full of woke lycra louts, so that's perhaps where the infection is coming from.
Labour still have a bit of work to do in the Midlands.
Labour has an enormous amount of work to do almost everywhere South of the Humber, save for inner London. The fact that the Tories aren't doing worse isn't merely, as was suggested earlier, a product of the extraordinary circumstances created by Brexit and the Plague. Labour also has a dreadful image problem.
I'm not sure about that.
Their brand of politics (wokeness, veganism, Greta-loving, "ist" obsessed, and open immigration mindset) is seeping into the home counties through the 20 and 30 somethings, and those 40 and early 50 somethings who want to impress them.
Don't see much evidence for that around here TBH, and this is Hertfordshire, not Cornwall or the Welsh Marches.
Besides, the more Starmer sucks up to his core vote with metro left-liberal policies, the worse his position in the rubble of the Red Wall becomes.
This is nonsense as we know from the other day, Labour’s progress in Con gains in 2019 is greater than in Con holds.
Precisely the point I made in the previous thread.
It's a thing.
I am increasingly convinced by my theory that Starmer, in 2024, will campaign to reenter EEA, or on a referendum to Rejoin the EU.
It is the only way he can solve his Scottish problem, and, besides, by then, it might be an EXTREMELY popular position.
I don't think he will. He will campaign for "closer links" and "more co-operation" but he won't poke the hornet's nest with a referendum to rejoin.
He might renegotiate EEA entry on the sly after 2024 though. Personally, I think he'll just add to and beef-up the FTA and give more migration rights.
But he needs something to solve his Scotch problem.
Sturgeon will win in 2021 and demand indyref 2; the Tories, facing very possible defeat in this, will clearly say No ("once in a generation"). Yes this may well stoke grievance, but if the alternative is the ACTUAL loss of the Union then a bit of grievance can be tolerated. It might even work to the advantage of London if the Nats go mad and declare UDI or whatever,
So, we reach 2024, and Starmer is doing well in the polls but winning a majority without Scotland seems impossible. And the Nats will demand indyref2 as the price of support.
But if Starmer offers the Scots, and everyone else, a rethink on EU membership, then suddenly Scots might look more kindly on him.
My bet is there is a decent majority in Scotland for staying in the UK if it comes with EU membership. Game changer for Labour in Scotland?
I'm with you on that until the final two paragraphs.
I'm not seeing a winning constituency, nationwide, on opening up the Brexit sore all over again in less than 4 years unless it's a complete and abject disaster.
It'd be more likely to shore up the Conservative vote whilst only tinkering at the margins in Scotland.
Well the Scots seem pretty keen on revoting ASAP after indyref 1, they don't mind reopening the wound. And polls are now showing consistent majorities of people expressing regret over Brexit.
2024 is four years away. Who knows.
My personal hunch is that Rejoin would win a 2nd vote held in the next few years. However if it we wait a decade - til 2030? - we will *never* rejoin. By then we will be used to life outside.
GDP grew by 5.7pc in June, falling short of the 8.7pc surge recorded nationally.
It came after the economy shrank by 5.8pc in March and 19.2pc in April - both extremely large drops, but less severe than the UK-wide collapse.
But despite this better starting position, growth has been slower since April.
As a result, the Scottish economy was still 17.6pc smaller in June than it was in February, meaning it has effectively been overtaken by the rest of the country. The British economy overall is now 17.2pc smaller than it was before the pandemic struck.
ooooooooooh panic , 0.4% on one months data , end of the world is nigh.
It's 8.7% national growth in June vs 5.7% in Scotland for June. We know the national picture is about 8% for July if Scotland repeats with 6% the gap gets wider. Sturgeon is fucking up the Scottish economy, I also don't understand why, the pandemic is over in Scotland, it has been since the end of May.
If she stops then she has to start up indyref2 again so she is bricking it.
That's terrible decision making if it's true. 3 months from now if England and Wales have recovered to ~95% of the pre virus economy (which looks likely) and Scotland hasn't the blame gets laid at her door, she can't even blame London for it given its all been in her hands. That slower recovery compared to rUK and, more widely, Europe would be very tough to explain away.
Maybe email her with your track record of predictions on Scotpol, that'll make her sit up and notice.
You've been saying that for four years. Here's the thing: it isn't and you keep overplaying your hand, and misplaying the expectations game, so when it's actually ok people shrug, accept and live with it.
It's not enough for economic growth to be slightly slower or the pound slightly weaker, for that criteria to be met there'd have to be serious economic damage to people's livelihoods and incomes and real diminution in the quality of life.
That hasn't happened. And I don't think it will. We'll get extra bureaucracy for exports/imports and travel next year, but otherwise things will carry on the same (with some popular things like new migration controls and some regulatory changes), the economy will grow and life will go on.
The fuck-a-duck shitstorm coming next year is wading straight into Sindyref too and constitutional drama over Scotland just weeks after Brexit.
It has to work. Society cannot function without schools. They are the bottom line. We can cope without nightclubs. We can cope without galleries, parades, museums, even, dammit, pubs and restaurants.
We cannot live without schools. Parents can't go to work, kids are damaged forever. They are the absolute priority.
In a couple of weeks less than 0.25% of hospital beds will be taken up by covid positive patients. To continue living the restricted life we are when Covid is almost a medical irrelevance to the NHS is plain daft.
FPT - Since you like to ignore reality I'll tell you again:
Well - if it is similar to the Spanish pattern many of the new cases were in the younger age groups doing the things they do. However, a few weeks on and now olde relatives and even old people's homes are again being infected and both the hospital admissions and deaths are rising too. The Spanish health minister reckong the majority of outbrekas are family related. I think the death rate will be lower this time round as there have been some treatment advances. The idea that we don't have to worry is I think mistaken.
Well, the supposed Leicester hotspot started 6 weeks ago, in overcrowded multigenerational households, yet the local hospitalisations are down six fold. They should be appearing by now. It is genuinely hard to explain.
While obviously hospitalisations and deaths are a trailing indicator, the KCL Covid app suggests population symptoms are down too. We are clearly missing some of the picture.
Personally, I would keep music and nightclubs closed, discourage international travel and for the remainder of activities to resume with careful hygiene, masks and social distancing, and keep a watchful eye on the figures.
My guess is that this is down to a combination of high levels of public take-up of masks, compliance with regulations amongst the overwhelming majority of businesses, exceptionally high levels of working from home relative to many other European countries, and a lot of voluntary self-segregation by vulnerable groups.
Having parents who are old enough to be counted as vulnerable, I know at least anecdotally how people who may be reasonably healthy for their age and not prone to hysteria are nonetheless taking this disease very seriously indeed. My Dad in particular is very cautious; he could be persuaded to go to an outdoor dining venue with us about three weeks ago but other than that I think he's still living pretty much as if it were April, other than the fact that he sees one close friend regularly (who's effectively the other half of his support bubble, I suppose) and his brother and sister from time to time.
In terms of what we can get away with opening, at this stage I think we'd probably agree quite closely. I think that nightclubs, rock concerts, choirs and packed football stadiums are off limits for the duration of this crisis, but just about everything else should be doable with caution. Following the announcement a few weeks back of the arts rescue package, I wonder whether or not the Government has given consideration to telling the theatres to re-open, operate at a loss and top up their balance sheets with grants?
EDIT: and yes, international travel is also a terrible idea under current circumstances - you risk getting caught out big time both by our Government's ever-changing restrictions and by those of the countries that you're visiting. I dare say that the Foreign Office advice against non-essential travel was probably relaxed to try to prop up travel agencies and tour operators, but frankly they'd have been better off lobbing money at them instead.
Anyone know why WFH isn’t anywhere near as popular in Berlin, Madrid and Paris as in London? The numbers are absolutely stark.
I can only speak from second hand knowledge of European friends - they mainly say that employers are far less trusting in Europe than in England where flexible working and wfh is already fairly common place. That's why it's been easier for UK plc to adjust to the new normal compared to Europe and a lot of the advanced "activity" indicators for the UK economy aren't as accurate, especially when used by overseas analysts who don't understand the scale of wfh in the UK. Iirc one of those advanced activity models predicted 4.5% growth in June based on traffic and public transport statistics and POS data from high street cafés and restaurants but it came in at 8.7% because so many people are WFH.
Makes sense. I have a mate who works in London for a Spanish company. The founder is “against” WFH apparently. They all WFH anyway a few days a week but make sure they are all in the office when the founder visits - about five times a year.
Yeah my wife had a friend who works for a German company in Kent and they have called everyone back to the office from September, they have installed plastic screens and isolated all the desks etc... The friend is thinking of quitting because she thinks the company will keep that setup post-virus as it makes it more difficult for colleagues to talk to each other.
The UK tendency to WFH is good for keeping infection levels low, but terrible for our city centres, esp London.
It is one reason our GDP drop was so much more severe.
But also good for the recovery because people can be easily mobilised to start working again without needing modifications to work places. Tbh, there is going to be a new reality for hospitality business and lunch places that serve office workers, I don't know what it is but the person who figures it out will make millions.
The simplest and most obvious scenario is that all those business support services in the city centres simply contract until the remaining providers match the remaining customers, and new businesses open to replace them in the areas where more people are now working. Some economic activity is thus displaced from traditional businesses districts to suburban and rural areas. Rebalancing in action.
But for a lot of people lunch is a social thing, how do you get a bunch of disparate colleagues working all over the country together to have lunch or go for a coffee etc... How do you make these people not so spread out?
I actually think that the best model might be in office catering for "in office days" I think that activity will increase a lot.
I don't think anywhere I have worked in the last 15 years has anyone been interested in going out for lunch with colleagues. Hell we cant get half our team to go to the christmas do once a year. In my experience over around 5 or 6 companies in the last 20 years that is par for the course.
Senior management pal around.....those below middle management don't want to know
It has to work. Society cannot function without schools. They are the bottom line. We can cope without nightclubs. We can cope without galleries, parades, museums, even, dammit, pubs and restaurants.
We cannot live without schools. Parents can't go to work, kids are damaged forever. They are the absolute priority.
And the Government should have spent the summer building "Nightingale" schools and recruiting staff to make it work.
You've been saying that for four years. Here's the thing: it isn't and you keep overplaying your hand, and misplaying the expectations game, so when it's actually ok people shrug, accept and live with it.
It's not enough for economic growth to be slightly slower or the pound slightly weaker, for that criteria to be met there'd have to be serious economic damage to people's livelihoods and incomes and real diminution in the quality of life.
That hasn't happened. And I don't think it will. We'll get extra bureaucracy for exports/imports and travel next year, but otherwise things will carry on the same (with some popular things like new migration controls and some regulatory changes), the economy will grow and life will go on.
The fuck-a-duck shitstorm coming next year is wading straight into Sindyref too and constitutional drama over Scotland just weeks after Brexit.
Any economic shitstorm will be Covids fault now, and no one wants open borders anymore, so I doubt Brexit will get the blame from the public for much, only from those who cant accept they were on the losing side and havent moved on
Precisely the point I made in the previous thread.
It's a thing.
I am increasingly convinced by my theory that Starmer, in 2024, will campaign to reenter EEA, or on a referendum to Rejoin the EU.
It is the only way he can solve his Scottish problem, and, besides, by then, it might be an EXTREMELY popular position.
I don't think he will. He will campaign for "closer links" and "more co-operation" but he won't poke the hornet's nest with a referendum to rejoin.
He might renegotiate EEA entry on the sly after 2024 though. Personally, I think he'll just add to and beef-up the FTA and give more migration rights.
But he needs something to solve his Scotch problem.
Sturgeon will win in 2021 and demand indyref 2; the Tories, facing very possible defeat in this, will clearly say No ("once in a generation"). Yes this may well stoke grievance, but if the alternative is the ACTUAL loss of the Union then a bit of grievance can be tolerated. It might even work to the advantage of London if the Nats go mad and declare UDI or whatever,
So, we reach 2024, and Starmer is doing well in the polls but winning a majority without Scotland seems impossible. And the Nats will demand indyref2 as the price of support.
But if Starmer offers the Scots, and everyone else, a rethink on EU membership, then suddenly Scots might look more kindly on him.
My bet is there is a decent majority in Scotland for staying in the UK if it comes with EU membership. Game changer for Labour in Scotland?
If the SNP stand on a Referendum 2 platform and win a majority at Holyrood, Westminster opposing said referendum is constitutionally impossible in my view.
It has to work. Society cannot function without schools. They are the bottom line. We can cope without nightclubs. We can cope without galleries, parades, museums, even, dammit, pubs and restaurants.
We cannot live without schools. Parents can't go to work, kids are damaged forever. They are the absolute priority.
Yeah. Throwing in the towel without even trying is ridiculous.
Labour still have a bit of work to do in the Midlands.
Labour has an enormous amount of work to do almost everywhere South of the Humber, save for inner London. The fact that the Tories aren't doing worse isn't merely, as was suggested earlier, a product of the extraordinary circumstances created by Brexit and the Plague. Labour also has a dreadful image problem.
I'm not sure about that.
Their brand of politics (wokeness, veganism, Greta-loving, "ist" obsessed, and open immigration mindset) is seeping into the home counties through the 20 and 30 somethings, and those 40 and early 50 somethings who want to impress them.
Don't see much evidence for that around here TBH, and this is Hertfordshire, not Cornwall or the Welsh Marches.
Besides, the more Starmer sucks up to his core vote with metro left-liberal policies, the worse his position in the rubble of the Red Wall becomes.
One of my pubs a few miles away has gone full vegan-twat. I went there on Monday and they had 3 vegan dishes on a 7 dish menu, one fish, and then just "burger", "chicken burger" or "steak" as the other options. And their website now proclaims their veganism.
Shit. I walked out. It's only a short step from that to all the staff wearing BLM t-shirts.
I'm close(ish) to trendy liberal SW surrey, full of woke lycra louts, so that's perhaps where the infection is coming from.
Given that vegans constitute.... wait for it... a whopping 1.6% of UK society, I suggest that your local pub has made an unwise commercial decision, and will soon change its mind.
If the SNP stand on a Referendum 2 platform and win a majority at Holyrood, Westminster opposing said referendum is constitutionally impossible in my view.
Constitutionally would be fine.
It's the politics that would be tricky, but BoZo doesn't care.
It has to work. Society cannot function without schools. They are the bottom line. We can cope without nightclubs. We can cope without galleries, parades, museums, even, dammit, pubs and restaurants.
We cannot live without schools. Parents can't go to work, kids are damaged forever. They are the absolute priority.
@Casino_Royale you’re right. Which is why Keir will only campaign for EEA/Rejoin if there is significant public support for doing so, as a result of a horrendously bad Brexit.
Precisely the point I made in the previous thread.
It's a thing.
I am increasingly convinced by my theory that Starmer, in 2024, will campaign to reenter EEA, or on a referendum to Rejoin the EU.
It is the only way he can solve his Scottish problem, and, besides, by then, it might be an EXTREMELY popular position.
I don't think he will. He will campaign for "closer links" and "more co-operation" but he won't poke the hornet's nest with a referendum to rejoin.
He might renegotiate EEA entry on the sly after 2024 though. Personally, I think he'll just add to and beef-up the FTA and give more migration rights.
But he needs something to solve his Scotch problem.
Sturgeon will win in 2021 and demand indyref 2; the Tories, facing very possible defeat in this, will clearly say No ("once in a generation"). Yes this may well stoke grievance, but if the alternative is the ACTUAL loss of the Union then a bit of grievance can be tolerated. It might even work to the advantage of London if the Nats go mad and declare UDI or whatever,
So, we reach 2024, and Starmer is doing well in the polls but winning a majority without Scotland seems impossible. And the Nats will demand indyref2 as the price of support.
But if Starmer offers the Scots, and everyone else, a rethink on EU membership, then suddenly Scots might look more kindly on him.
My bet is there is a decent majority in Scotland for staying in the UK if it comes with EU membership. Game changer for Labour in Scotland?
If the SNP stand on a Referendum 2 platform and win a majority at Holyrood, Westminster opposing said referendum is constitutionally impossible in my view.
Well you better get used to it. This is what's about to happen. Westminster will say the question of referendums is reserved to Westminster, and will refuse.
The Nats will take it to the Supreme Court, and there they will lose, because the law is on the side of Westminster. It is not a grey area.
It will be a massive constitutional crisis, that I grant you. And it may in itself further the end of the Union. But the Tories will think fuck it, if the Union is likely finished anyway, let it not happen on our watch, and maybe something will turn up.
Prepare for this to be an endless debate from 2021-2024, when a probable Starmer government with NOM will finally have to seize the thistle
This Government is destroying the Union day by day.
People on here were warning about this back in 2016 and that was with a more Conservative govt than the UKIP-lite we have now.
You are a beautiful example of the phenomena I've just posted about in response to @MaxPB
You have been driven mad by Brexit, and are now delighted that there's a new course of revenge that's potentially about to get served up on the table.
I do find it ironic that people insist that taking back control is ok regardless of the economic costs but it's not OK to give control back to a different group of people.
The only person I can think of on this site who is adamant there should be no second referendum even if the Scots vote to hold one is HYUFD - and he's a Remainer.
Not entirely. The result of a Holyrood election which sees turnout of circa 50% should not override a Referendum in respect of which 85% voted. The lower turnout for Holyrood v Westminster too would tend to suggest that voters in Scotland see it as a lower or secondary tier of authority.
The Holyrood election won't be overriding the Referendum. Overriding the referendum would be taking an SNP majority as a Yes vote. Instead the Holyrood election would merely set the stage for a new vote. Only a Yes Referendum can overturn the No.
As for lower turnout there is a very simple rule in politics: If you don't vote, you can't complain. If the 35% who didn't vote all don't want a second referendum then they should vote to say so. If they don't, that's their choice.
The SNP are seeking to use next year's Holyrood election to obtain a mandate - as they see it - to revist a decision taken by a clear margin in September 2014 on a turnout of circa 85%. The SNP First Minister at the time clearly stated that the decision then taken was to be binding 'for a generation'. A subsequent election on a circa 50% turnout for a second tier authority which lacks the authority to take such a decision cannot reasonably be viewed as a mandate - whether morally or legally. Holyrood can do no more than ask Westminster for such a vote . Westminster has every right to say 'No - Come back post 2035!'
That is a whacking fib - Salmond did not say indyref was binding for a generation, he just said it was th ekind of opportunity that comes along in a generation - and it had been since the first devolution vote was fiddled by Labour in 1978. ,
As any ful kno, once in a generation was written into the Edinburgh Agreement.
'Douglas Ross claimed in his BBC Good Morning Scotland interview that Nicola Sturgeon signed an agreement with the UK and Scottish Governments that the 2014 referendum would be a “once in a generation” vote.'
Labour still have a bit of work to do in the Midlands.
Labour has an enormous amount of work to do almost everywhere South of the Humber, save for inner London. The fact that the Tories aren't doing worse isn't merely, as was suggested earlier, a product of the extraordinary circumstances created by Brexit and the Plague. Labour also has a dreadful image problem.
I'm not sure about that.
Their brand of politics (wokeness, veganism, Greta-loving, "ist" obsessed, and open immigration mindset) is seeping into the home counties through the 20 and 30 somethings, and those 40 and early 50 somethings who want to impress them.
Don't see much evidence for that around here TBH, and this is Hertfordshire, not Cornwall or the Welsh Marches.
Besides, the more Starmer sucks up to his core vote with metro left-liberal policies, the worse his position in the rubble of the Red Wall becomes.
One of my pubs a few miles away has gone full vegan-twat. I went there on Monday and they had 3 vegan dishes on a 7 dish menu, one fish, and then just "burger", "chicken burger" or "steak" as the other options. And their website now proclaims their veganism.
Shit. I walked out. It's only a short step from that to all the staff wearing BLM t-shirts.
I'm close(ish) to trendy liberal SW surrey, full of woke lycra louts, so that's perhaps where the infection is coming from.
Why do you have an irrational hatred of veganism? I’m not a vegan, but will happily enjoy a meal without meat often. It’s not the end of the world, and can be quite delicious in fact.
Maybe stop being so closed-minded and judgemental, and if you don’t like it, just don’t go.
“Eating meat” is not a personality just like “veganism” is not a personality.
Precisely the point I made in the previous thread.
It's a thing.
I am increasingly convinced by my theory that Starmer, in 2024, will campaign to reenter EEA, or on a referendum to Rejoin the EU.
It is the only way he can solve his Scottish problem, and, besides, by then, it might be an EXTREMELY popular position.
I don't think he will. He will campaign for "closer links" and "more co-operation" but he won't poke the hornet's nest with a referendum to rejoin.
He might renegotiate EEA entry on the sly after 2024 though. Personally, I think he'll just add to and beef-up the FTA and give more migration rights.
But he needs something to solve his Scotch problem.
Sturgeon will win in 2021 and demand indyref 2; the Tories, facing very possible defeat in this, will clearly say No ("once in a generation"). Yes this may well stoke grievance, but if the alternative is the ACTUAL loss of the Union then a bit of grievance can be tolerated. It might even work to the advantage of London if the Nats go mad and declare UDI or whatever,
So, we reach 2024, and Starmer is doing well in the polls but winning a majority without Scotland seems impossible. And the Nats will demand indyref2 as the price of support.
But if Starmer offers the Scots, and everyone else, a rethink on EU membership, then suddenly Scots might look more kindly on him.
My bet is there is a decent majority in Scotland for staying in the UK if it comes with EU membership. Game changer for Labour in Scotland?
If the SNP stand on a Referendum 2 platform and win a majority at Holyrood, Westminster opposing said referendum is constitutionally impossible in my view.
Well you better get used to it. This is what's about to happen. Westminster will say the question of referendums is reserved to Westminster, and will refuse.
The Nats will take it to the Supreme Court, and there they will lose, because the law is on the side of Westminster. It is not a grey area.
It will be a massive constitutional crisis, that I grant you. And it may in itself further the end of the Union. But the Tories will think fuck it, if the Union is likely finished anyway, let it not happen on our watch, and maybe something will turn up.
Prepare for this to be an endless debate from 2021-2024, when a probable Starmer government with NOM will finally have to seize the thistle
Why oh why won't those Jocks accept that they're genetically Anglo Saxon?
It has to work. Society cannot function without schools. They are the bottom line. We can cope without nightclubs. We can cope without galleries, parades, museums, even, dammit, pubs and restaurants.
We cannot live without schools. Parents can't go to work, kids are damaged forever. They are the absolute priority.
+1
Exams should have been made to work as well.
Absolutely. The Germans managed to have distanced exams in enormous halls. They made it work.
To be fair to HMG, other European governments have equally fucked it up (unlike the Teutons),. and the teaching unions must share some blame, but the management of education during the pandemic has been dreadful.
Gavin Williamson should have been thrown on the compost heap of political history 6 months ago. Give Jeremy Hunt the job. Give my daughter's budgie the job, Give Keith bloody Chegwin the job, he'd be better, and he's dead. FFS.
It has to work. Society cannot function without schools. They are the bottom line. We can cope without nightclubs. We can cope without galleries, parades, museums, even, dammit, pubs and restaurants.
We cannot live without schools. Parents can't go to work, kids are damaged forever. They are the absolute priority.
And the Government should have spent the summer building "Nightingale" schools and recruiting staff to make it work.
BoZO went on holiday. Again.
What is a Nightingale school? How long do you think it usually takes to recruit teachers? From where?
There will be schools across the country opening in September missing one or more staff: in some cases several. The sort of teacher who is still looking for a post is often, perhaps even usually, the sort of teacher you would only appoint if you had no other option (and in some cases not even then). If you do have to then you make sure that they are closely supervised. (I’m not talking about any child protection issues here, but some combination of general inability to control a class, poor knowledge of the subject, or unwillingness to prepare for lessons).
This is something that would be difficult to organise with six months notice.
It has to work. Society cannot function without schools. They are the bottom line. We can cope without nightclubs. We can cope without galleries, parades, museums, even, dammit, pubs and restaurants.
We cannot live without schools. Parents can't go to work, kids are damaged forever. They are the absolute priority.
But, for reasons best known to themselves, the government decided to shout at teachers rather than making the school system work reliably in a time of virus.
It could have been done; reduce class sizes, run split shifts, find buildings to co-opt (unlikely to help at scale, but worth a try), find a workable reduced menu of lessons, get the broadcast learning up to scratch, identify the spare staff to stand in for those who are isolating...
Some of that has been done. But the bubbles are still too big, and the low level of Covid in the community will hit some of those bubbles, and there's not enough resilience in the system to be sure of coping. Early September will be fine, but late October looks very dicey.
It's what happens when you have a government dominated by the skills of selling and opinionating, rather than governing.
Precisely the point I made in the previous thread.
It's a thing.
I am increasingly convinced by my theory that Starmer, in 2024, will campaign to reenter EEA, or on a referendum to Rejoin the EU.
It is the only way he can solve his Scottish problem, and, besides, by then, it might be an EXTREMELY popular position.
I don't think he will. He will campaign for "closer links" and "more co-operation" but he won't poke the hornet's nest with a referendum to rejoin.
He might renegotiate EEA entry on the sly after 2024 though. Personally, I think he'll just add to and beef-up the FTA and give more migration rights.
But he needs something to solve his Scotch problem.
Sturgeon will win in 2021 and demand indyref 2; the Tories, facing very possible defeat in this, will clearly say No ("once in a generation"). Yes this may well stoke grievance, but if the alternative is the ACTUAL loss of the Union then a bit of grievance can be tolerated. It might even work to the advantage of London if the Nats go mad and declare UDI or whatever,
So, we reach 2024, and Starmer is doing well in the polls but winning a majority without Scotland seems impossible. And the Nats will demand indyref2 as the price of support.
But if Starmer offers the Scots, and everyone else, a rethink on EU membership, then suddenly Scots might look more kindly on him.
My bet is there is a decent majority in Scotland for staying in the UK if it comes with EU membership. Game changer for Labour in Scotland?
If the SNP stand on a Referendum 2 platform and win a majority at Holyrood, Westminster opposing said referendum is constitutionally impossible in my view.
Well you better get used to it. This is what's about to happen. Westminster will say the question of referendums is reserved to Westminster, and will refuse.
The Nats will take it to the Supreme Court, and there they will lose, because the law is on the side of Westminster. It is not a grey area.
It will be a massive constitutional crisis, that I grant you. And it may in itself further the end of the Union. But the Tories will think fuck it, if the Union is likely finished anyway, let it not happen on our watch, and maybe something will turn up.
Prepare for this to be an endless debate from 2021-2024, when a probable Starmer government with NOM will finally have to seize the thistle
Why oh why won't those Jocks accept that they're genetically Anglo Saxon?
Lowlanders like you are genetically identical to the native English. As you know, of course. Most of you ARE English.
It's the Gaels who are genetically different, on their dreaming islands. Bless 'em. I hope their dying language is saved.
Precisely the point I made in the previous thread.
It's a thing.
I am increasingly convinced by my theory that Starmer, in 2024, will campaign to reenter EEA, or on a referendum to Rejoin the EU.
It is the only way he can solve his Scottish problem, and, besides, by then, it might be an EXTREMELY popular position.
I don't think he will. He will campaign for "closer links" and "more co-operation" but he won't poke the hornet's nest with a referendum to rejoin.
He might renegotiate EEA entry on the sly after 2024 though. Personally, I think he'll just add to and beef-up the FTA and give more migration rights.
But he needs something to solve his Scotch problem.
Sturgeon will win in 2021 and demand indyref 2; the Tories, facing very possible defeat in this, will clearly say No ("once in a generation"). Yes this may well stoke grievance, but if the alternative is the ACTUAL loss of the Union then a bit of grievance can be tolerated. It might even work to the advantage of London if the Nats go mad and declare UDI or whatever,
So, we reach 2024, and Starmer is doing well in the polls but winning a majority without Scotland seems impossible. And the Nats will demand indyref2 as the price of support.
But if Starmer offers the Scots, and everyone else, a rethink on EU membership, then suddenly Scots might look more kindly on him.
My bet is there is a decent majority in Scotland for staying in the UK if it comes with EU membership. Game changer for Labour in Scotland?
If the SNP stand on a Referendum 2 platform and win a majority at Holyrood, Westminster opposing said referendum is constitutionally impossible in my view.
Well you better get used to it. This is what's about to happen. Westminster will say the question of referendums is reserved to Westminster, and will refuse.
The Nats will take it to the Supreme Court, and there they will lose, because the law is on the side of Westminster. It is not a grey area.
It will be a massive constitutional crisis, that I grant you. And it may in itself further the end of the Union. But the Tories will think fuck it, if the Union is likely finished anyway, let it not happen on our watch, and maybe something will turn up.
Prepare for this to be an endless debate from 2021-2024, when a probable Starmer government with NOM will finally have to seize the thistle
The fundamental point is that Boris Johnson, nor any likely successor should he step down early, will want to have their Premiership terminated by the loss of Scotland - which appears inevitable in the medium term. They therefore, as you suggest, have nothing left to lose by prevaricating.
The rupture of the Union can then be blamed on Labour, which strikes one as just desserts since Blair and his mates wrecked the constitutional structure of the UK for their own ends when they created asymmetric devolution in the first place. Labour sowed the wind...
Labour still have a bit of work to do in the Midlands.
Labour has an enormous amount of work to do almost everywhere South of the Humber, save for inner London. The fact that the Tories aren't doing worse isn't merely, as was suggested earlier, a product of the extraordinary circumstances created by Brexit and the Plague. Labour also has a dreadful image problem.
I'm not sure about that.
Their brand of politics (wokeness, veganism, Greta-loving, "ist" obsessed, and open immigration mindset) is seeping into the home counties through the 20 and 30 somethings, and those 40 and early 50 somethings who want to impress them.
Don't see much evidence for that around here TBH, and this is Hertfordshire, not Cornwall or the Welsh Marches.
Besides, the more Starmer sucks up to his core vote with metro left-liberal policies, the worse his position in the rubble of the Red Wall becomes.
One of my pubs a few miles away has gone full vegan-twat. I went there on Monday and they had 3 vegan dishes on a 7 dish menu, one fish, and then just "burger", "chicken burger" or "steak" as the other options. And their website now proclaims their veganism.
Shit. I walked out. It's only a short step from that to all the staff wearing BLM t-shirts.
I'm close(ish) to trendy liberal SW surrey, full of woke lycra louts, so that's perhaps where the infection is coming from.
Given that vegans constitute.... wait for it... a whopping 1.6% of UK society, I suggest that your local pub has made an unwise commercial decision, and will soon change its mind.
Labour still have a bit of work to do in the Midlands.
Labour has an enormous amount of work to do almost everywhere South of the Humber, save for inner London. The fact that the Tories aren't doing worse isn't merely, as was suggested earlier, a product of the extraordinary circumstances created by Brexit and the Plague. Labour also has a dreadful image problem.
I'm not sure about that.
Their brand of politics (wokeness, veganism, Greta-loving, "ist" obsessed, and open immigration mindset) is seeping into the home counties through the 20 and 30 somethings, and those 40 and early 50 somethings who want to impress them.
Don't see much evidence for that around here TBH, and this is Hertfordshire, not Cornwall or the Welsh Marches.
Besides, the more Starmer sucks up to his core vote with metro left-liberal policies, the worse his position in the rubble of the Red Wall becomes.
One of my pubs a few miles away has gone full vegan-twat. I went there on Monday and they had 3 vegan dishes on a 7 dish menu, one fish, and then just "burger", "chicken burger" or "steak" as the other options. And their website now proclaims their veganism.
Shit. I walked out. It's only a short step from that to all the staff wearing BLM t-shirts.
I'm close(ish) to trendy liberal SW surrey, full of woke lycra louts, so that's perhaps where the infection is coming from.
Why do you have an irrational hatred of veganism? I’m not a vegan, but will happily enjoy a meal without meat often. It’s not the end of the world, and can be quite delicious in fact.
Maybe stop being so closed-minded and judgemental, and if you don’t like it, just don’t go.
“Eating meat” is not a personality just like “veganism” is not a personality.
Maybe people have an irrational hatred of it because of the holier than thou attitude many vegans take. I am happy to let someone be a vegan and really don't care. However when they start forwarding articles about the evils of eating meat, insist that we can only go places where there is no meat on the menu in case of contamination then they can take a hike.
I eat meat, I don't feel the need to go telling them how much better they would be eating meat. They leave me be I leave them be. Sadly most in my experience are evangelical vegans
Useless fact: just checked my Betfair account and couldn't understand why I'd suddenly won £88. Turns out I'd placed a small bet on Joe Biden at 10/1 on 26th February this year. I'd totally forgotten about it. Can't believe he was that long just a few months ago.
One of my pubs a few miles away has gone full vegan-twat. I went there on Monday and they had 3 vegan dishes on a 7 dish menu, one fish, and then just "burger", "chicken burger" or "steak" as the other options. And their website now proclaims their veganism.
Shit. I walked out. It's only a short step from that to all the staff wearing BLM t-shirts.
I'm close(ish) to trendy liberal SW surrey, full of woke lycra louts, so that's perhaps where the infection is coming from.
Don't worry, you can be "the only Right-winger in the village".
Precisely the point I made in the previous thread.
It's a thing.
I am increasingly convinced by my theory that Starmer, in 2024, will campaign to reenter EEA, or on a referendum to Rejoin the EU.
It is the only way he can solve his Scottish problem, and, besides, by then, it might be an EXTREMELY popular position.
I don't think he will. He will campaign for "closer links" and "more co-operation" but he won't poke the hornet's nest with a referendum to rejoin.
He might renegotiate EEA entry on the sly after 2024 though. Personally, I think he'll just add to and beef-up the FTA and give more migration rights.
But he needs something to solve his Scotch problem.
Sturgeon will win in 2021 and demand indyref 2; the Tories, facing very possible defeat in this, will clearly say No ("once in a generation"). Yes this may well stoke grievance, but if the alternative is the ACTUAL loss of the Union then a bit of grievance can be tolerated. It might even work to the advantage of London if the Nats go mad and declare UDI or whatever,
So, we reach 2024, and Starmer is doing well in the polls but winning a majority without Scotland seems impossible. And the Nats will demand indyref2 as the price of support.
But if Starmer offers the Scots, and everyone else, a rethink on EU membership, then suddenly Scots might look more kindly on him.
My bet is there is a decent majority in Scotland for staying in the UK if it comes with EU membership. Game changer for Labour in Scotland?
If the SNP stand on a Referendum 2 platform and win a majority at Holyrood, Westminster opposing said referendum is constitutionally impossible in my view.
Well you better get used to it. This is what's about to happen. Westminster will say the question of referendums is reserved to Westminster, and will refuse.
The Nats will take it to the Supreme Court, and there they will lose, because the law is on the side of Westminster. It is not a grey area.
It will be a massive constitutional crisis, that I grant you. And it may in itself further the end of the Union. But the Tories will think fuck it, if the Union is likely finished anyway, let it not happen on our watch, and maybe something will turn up.
Prepare for this to be an endless debate from 2021-2024, when a probable Starmer government with NOM will finally have to seize the thistle
The fundamental point is that Boris Johnson, nor any likely successor should he step down early, will want to have their Premiership terminated by the loss of Scotland - which appears inevitable in the medium term. They therefore, as you suggest, have nothing left to lose by prevaricating.
The rupture of the Union can then be blamed on Labour, which strikes one as just desserts since Blair and his mates wrecked the constitutional structure of the UK for their own ends when they created asymmetric devolution in the first place. Labour sowed the wind...
It’s laughable to suggest historians would blame Labour for the “loss of Scotland” after everything that has happened since 2010. No doubt Brexit would be considered a prime cause regardless.
Imagine if the Devo-Max that was promised after SindyRef had been implemented and Brexit not happened? I doubt support for Independence would be anywhere near where it is now.
Do we have more than anecdotes on the medium term health impacts / recovery time for covid icu patients? It’s crossed my mind that Boris is actually still pretty nailed physically and these “holidays” are medically prescribed. What are the odds on a 2020 exit date? I wouldn’t rule it out, even at this relatively late stage in the year.
It could alternatively be the case he’s now only hanging on to see through Brexit and will be gone in Q1 next year.
Labour still have a bit of work to do in the Midlands.
Labour has an enormous amount of work to do almost everywhere South of the Humber, save for inner London. The fact that the Tories aren't doing worse isn't merely, as was suggested earlier, a product of the extraordinary circumstances created by Brexit and the Plague. Labour also has a dreadful image problem.
I'm not sure about that.
Their brand of politics (wokeness, veganism, Greta-loving, "ist" obsessed, and open immigration mindset) is seeping into the home counties through the 20 and 30 somethings, and those 40 and early 50 somethings who want to impress them.
Don't see much evidence for that around here TBH, and this is Hertfordshire, not Cornwall or the Welsh Marches.
Besides, the more Starmer sucks up to his core vote with metro left-liberal policies, the worse his position in the rubble of the Red Wall becomes.
One of my pubs a few miles away has gone full vegan-twat. I went there on Monday and they had 3 vegan dishes on a 7 dish menu, one fish, and then just "burger", "chicken burger" or "steak" as the other options. And their website now proclaims their veganism.
Shit. I walked out. It's only a short step from that to all the staff wearing BLM t-shirts.
I'm close(ish) to trendy liberal SW surrey, full of woke lycra louts, so that's perhaps where the infection is coming from.
Why do you have an irrational hatred of veganism? I’m not a vegan, but will happily enjoy a meal without meat often. It’s not the end of the world, and can be quite delicious in fact.
Maybe stop being so closed-minded and judgemental, and if you don’t like it, just don’t go.
“Eating meat” is not a personality just like “veganism” is not a personality.
Maybe people have an irrational hatred of it because of the holier than thou attitude many vegans take. I am happy to let someone be a vegan and really don't care. However when they start forwarding articles about the evils of eating meat, insist that we can only go places where there is no meat on the menu in case of contamination then they can take a hike.
I eat meat, I don't feel the need to go telling them how much better they would be eating meat. They leave me be I leave them be. Sadly most in my experience are evangelical vegans
You’re only going to remember interacting with those who are “evangelical vegans” by the very nature of them being evangelical.
Precisely the point I made in the previous thread.
It's a thing.
I am increasingly convinced by my theory that Starmer, in 2024, will campaign to reenter EEA, or on a referendum to Rejoin the EU.
It is the only way he can solve his Scottish problem, and, besides, by then, it might be an EXTREMELY popular position.
I don't think he will. He will campaign for "closer links" and "more co-operation" but he won't poke the hornet's nest with a referendum to rejoin.
He might renegotiate EEA entry on the sly after 2024 though. Personally, I think he'll just add to and beef-up the FTA and give more migration rights.
But he needs something to solve his Scotch problem.
Sturgeon will win in 2021 and demand indyref 2; the Tories, facing very possible defeat in this, will clearly say No ("once in a generation"). Yes this may well stoke grievance, but if the alternative is the ACTUAL loss of the Union then a bit of grievance can be tolerated. It might even work to the advantage of London if the Nats go mad and declare UDI or whatever,
So, we reach 2024, and Starmer is doing well in the polls but winning a majority without Scotland seems impossible. And the Nats will demand indyref2 as the price of support.
But if Starmer offers the Scots, and everyone else, a rethink on EU membership, then suddenly Scots might look more kindly on him.
My bet is there is a decent majority in Scotland for staying in the UK if it comes with EU membership. Game changer for Labour in Scotland?
If the SNP stand on a Referendum 2 platform and win a majority at Holyrood, Westminster opposing said referendum is constitutionally impossible in my view.
I don’t think that a majority is an issue. If the SNP got 40% , the little Green helpers got 5% but parties committed to not having a referendum got 55% I don’t think that is a problem. If the SNP + Greens get 50%+ that’s different and I think that the case for a second referendum becomes unanswerable.
This Government is destroying the Union day by day.
People on here were warning about this back in 2016 and that was with a more Conservative govt than the UKIP-lite we have now.
You are a beautiful example of the phenomena I've just posted about in response to @MaxPB
You have been driven mad by Brexit, and are now delighted that there's a new course of revenge that's potentially about to get served up on the table.
I do find it ironic that people insist that taking back control is ok regardless of the economic costs but it's not OK to give control back to a different group of people.
The only person I can think of on this site who is adamant there should be no second referendum even if the Scots vote to hold one is HYUFD - and he's a Remainer.
Not entirely. The result of a Holyrood election which sees turnout of circa 50% should not override a Referendum in respect of which 85% voted. The lower turnout for Holyrood v Westminster too would tend to suggest that voters in Scotland see it as a lower or secondary tier of authority.
The Holyrood election won't be overriding the Referendum. Overriding the referendum would be taking an SNP majority as a Yes vote. Instead the Holyrood election would merely set the stage for a new vote. Only a Yes Referendum can overturn the No.
As for lower turnout there is a very simple rule in politics: If you don't vote, you can't complain. If the 35% who didn't vote all don't want a second referendum then they should vote to say so. If they don't, that's their choice.
The SNP are seeking to use next year's Holyrood election to obtain a mandate - as they see it - to revist a decision taken by a clear margin in September 2014 on a turnout of circa 85%. The SNP First Minister at the time clearly stated that the decision then taken was to be binding 'for a generation'. A subsequent election on a circa 50% turnout for a second tier authority which lacks the authority to take such a decision cannot reasonably be viewed as a mandate - whether morally or legally. Holyrood can do no more than ask Westminster for such a vote . Westminster has every right to say 'No - Come back post 2035!'
That is a whacking fib - Salmond did not say indyref was binding for a generation, he just said it was th ekind of opportunity that comes along in a generation - and it had been since the first devolution vote was fiddled by Labour in 1978. ,
As any ful kno, once in a generation was written into the Edinburgh Agreement.
'Douglas Ross claimed in his BBC Good Morning Scotland interview that Nicola Sturgeon signed an agreement with the UK and Scottish Governments that the 2014 referendum would be a “once in a generation” vote.'
I've just been doing a little maths and it has highlighted something in the Covid hospital patient figures which I started to notice some time ago, and have always found rather strange. Consider:
According to the ONS, the proportion of the total UK population living in each of the four constituent home nations was estimated, as of mid-2019, to be as follows:
England 84.3% Scotland 8.2% Wales 4.7% NI 2.8%
Back on the 17th of April, near the peak of the pandemic, the proportions of total UK Covid-19 patients in hospital, in each of the four nations, were as follows:
England 85.1% Scotland 8.6% Wales 4.7% NI 1.6%
So, the Covid patients were distributed approximately in proportion to the populations of the nations. However, by the 17th of August, the most recent date for which complete data are available, the position is altogether different:
Precisely the point I made in the previous thread.
It's a thing.
I am increasingly convinced by my theory that Starmer, in 2024, will campaign to reenter EEA, or on a referendum to Rejoin the EU.
It is the only way he can solve his Scottish problem, and, besides, by then, it might be an EXTREMELY popular position.
I don't think he will. He will campaign for "closer links" and "more co-operation" but he won't poke the hornet's nest with a referendum to rejoin.
He might renegotiate EEA entry on the sly after 2024 though. Personally, I think he'll just add to and beef-up the FTA and give more migration rights.
But he needs something to solve his Scotch problem.
Sturgeon will win in 2021 and demand indyref 2; the Tories, facing very possible defeat in this, will clearly say No ("once in a generation"). Yes this may well stoke grievance, but if the alternative is the ACTUAL loss of the Union then a bit of grievance can be tolerated. It might even work to the advantage of London if the Nats go mad and declare UDI or whatever,
So, we reach 2024, and Starmer is doing well in the polls but winning a majority without Scotland seems impossible. And the Nats will demand indyref2 as the price of support.
But if Starmer offers the Scots, and everyone else, a rethink on EU membership, then suddenly Scots might look more kindly on him.
My bet is there is a decent majority in Scotland for staying in the UK if it comes with EU membership. Game changer for Labour in Scotland?
If the SNP stand on a Referendum 2 platform and win a majority at Holyrood, Westminster opposing said referendum is constitutionally impossible in my view.
Well you better get used to it. This is what's about to happen. Westminster will say the question of referendums is reserved to Westminster, and will refuse.
The Nats will take it to the Supreme Court, and there they will lose, because the law is on the side of Westminster. It is not a grey area.
It will be a massive constitutional crisis, that I grant you. And it may in itself further the end of the Union. But the Tories will think fuck it, if the Union is likely finished anyway, let it not happen on our watch, and maybe something will turn up.
Prepare for this to be an endless debate from 2021-2024, when a probable Starmer government with NOM will finally have to seize the thistle
The fundamental point is that Boris Johnson, nor any likely successor should he step down early, will want to have their Premiership terminated by the loss of Scotland - which appears inevitable in the medium term. They therefore, as you suggest, have nothing left to lose by prevaricating.
The rupture of the Union can then be blamed on Labour, which strikes one as just desserts since Blair and his mates wrecked the constitutional structure of the UK for their own ends when they created asymmetric devolution in the first place. Labour sowed the wind...
Yes, indeed. Though I am less pessimistic than you on the inevitable end of the union.
Partition is much likelier than it was 3, 5, 10, 30 years ago, but inevitable? No. I do not think it is even probable. The economic case against it is so horrendous, even if the emotional case is being won by the Nats, at the mo.
But yes, the Union is in peril. Which is why no Tory PM will agree to a referendum til 2024 as long as the law is on his/her side. Which it is.
And yeah, Blair is to blame. What a total fuck-up he turned out to be.
I've just been doing a little maths and it has highlighted something in the Covid hospital patient figures which I started to notice some time ago, and have always found rather strange. Consider:
According to the ONS, the proportion of the total UK population living in each of the four constituent home nations was estimated, as of mid-2019, to be as follows:
England 84.3% Scotland 8.2% Wales 4.7% NI 2.8%
Back on the 17th of April, near the peak of the pandemic, the proportions of total UK Covid-19 patients in hospital, in each of the four nations, were as follows:
England 85.1% Scotland 8.6% Wales 4.7% NI 1.6%
So, the Covid patients were distributed approximately in proportion to the populations of the nations. However, by the 17th of August, the most recent date for which complete data are available, the position is altogether different:
Labour still have a bit of work to do in the Midlands.
Labour has an enormous amount of work to do almost everywhere South of the Humber, save for inner London. The fact that the Tories aren't doing worse isn't merely, as was suggested earlier, a product of the extraordinary circumstances created by Brexit and the Plague. Labour also has a dreadful image problem.
I'm not sure about that.
Their brand of politics (wokeness, veganism, Greta-loving, "ist" obsessed, and open immigration mindset) is seeping into the home counties through the 20 and 30 somethings, and those 40 and early 50 somethings who want to impress them.
Don't see much evidence for that around here TBH, and this is Hertfordshire, not Cornwall or the Welsh Marches.
Besides, the more Starmer sucks up to his core vote with metro left-liberal policies, the worse his position in the rubble of the Red Wall becomes.
One of my pubs a few miles away has gone full vegan-twat. I went there on Monday and they had 3 vegan dishes on a 7 dish menu, one fish, and then just "burger", "chicken burger" or "steak" as the other options. And their website now proclaims their veganism.
Shit. I walked out. It's only a short step from that to all the staff wearing BLM t-shirts.
I'm close(ish) to trendy liberal SW surrey, full of woke lycra louts, so that's perhaps where the infection is coming from.
Given that vegans constitute.... wait for it... a whopping 1.6% of UK society, I suggest that your local pub has made an unwise commercial decision, and will soon change its mind.
Labour still have a bit of work to do in the Midlands.
Labour has an enormous amount of work to do almost everywhere South of the Humber, save for inner London. The fact that the Tories aren't doing worse isn't merely, as was suggested earlier, a product of the extraordinary circumstances created by Brexit and the Plague. Labour also has a dreadful image problem.
I'm not sure about that.
Their brand of politics (wokeness, veganism, Greta-loving, "ist" obsessed, and open immigration mindset) is seeping into the home counties through the 20 and 30 somethings, and those 40 and early 50 somethings who want to impress them.
Don't see much evidence for that around here TBH, and this is Hertfordshire, not Cornwall or the Welsh Marches.
Besides, the more Starmer sucks up to his core vote with metro left-liberal policies, the worse his position in the rubble of the Red Wall becomes.
One of my pubs a few miles away has gone full vegan-twat. I went there on Monday and they had 3 vegan dishes on a 7 dish menu, one fish, and then just "burger", "chicken burger" or "steak" as the other options. And their website now proclaims their veganism.
Shit. I walked out. It's only a short step from that to all the staff wearing BLM t-shirts.
I'm close(ish) to trendy liberal SW surrey, full of woke lycra louts, so that's perhaps where the infection is coming from.
Why do you have an irrational hatred of veganism? I’m not a vegan, but will happily enjoy a meal without meat often. It’s not the end of the world, and can be quite delicious in fact.
Maybe stop being so closed-minded and judgemental, and if you don’t like it, just don’t go.
“Eating meat” is not a personality just like “veganism” is not a personality.
Maybe people have an irrational hatred of it because of the holier than thou attitude many vegans take. I am happy to let someone be a vegan and really don't care. However when they start forwarding articles about the evils of eating meat, insist that we can only go places where there is no meat on the menu in case of contamination then they can take a hike.
I eat meat, I don't feel the need to go telling them how much better they would be eating meat. They leave me be I leave them be. Sadly most in my experience are evangelical vegans
You’re only going to remember interacting with those who are “evangelical vegans” by the very nature of them being evangelical.
While true the percentage of evangelical to just getting on with it vegans is huge. As soon as I find out someone is a vegan I am pretty sure there is a lecture in my future and I am rarely disappointed. I even got a talking to from hr for being insensitive and eating bacon rolls at my desk on one occasion. To which my reply was go on then dismiss me for it I am sure it will be an interesting tribunal case
Labour still have a bit of work to do in the Midlands.
Labour has an enormous amount of work to do almost everywhere South of the Humber, save for inner London. The fact that the Tories aren't doing worse isn't merely, as was suggested earlier, a product of the extraordinary circumstances created by Brexit and the Plague. Labour also has a dreadful image problem.
I'm not sure about that.
Their brand of politics (wokeness, veganism, Greta-loving, "ist" obsessed, and open immigration mindset) is seeping into the home counties through the 20 and 30 somethings, and those 40 and early 50 somethings who want to impress them.
Don't see much evidence for that around here TBH, and this is Hertfordshire, not Cornwall or the Welsh Marches.
Besides, the more Starmer sucks up to his core vote with metro left-liberal policies, the worse his position in the rubble of the Red Wall becomes.
One of my pubs a few miles away has gone full vegan-twat. I went there on Monday and they had 3 vegan dishes on a 7 dish menu, one fish, and then just "burger", "chicken burger" or "steak" as the other options. And their website now proclaims their veganism.
Shit. I walked out. It's only a short step from that to all the staff wearing BLM t-shirts.
I'm close(ish) to trendy liberal SW surrey, full of woke lycra louts, so that's perhaps where the infection is coming from.
That sounds a bit like walking out of Pizza Express when you find there's only (pseudo-)Italian dishes on the menu. Go somewhere else. If they've misjudged their market, they'll change or go bust.
@Pagan2 are you the type who will kick off if an acquaintance suggests going to a different restaurant which has a more varied vegan selection?
Not at all I will kick off and refuse if they wish to goto a restaurant that only has vegan options though
Well I also think that’s stupid. It’s just as inconsiderate in the other direction. I also think that cross-contamination anxiety is a mental health issue.
Precisely the point I made in the previous thread.
It's a thing.
I am increasingly convinced by my theory that Starmer, in 2024, will campaign to reenter EEA, or on a referendum to Rejoin the EU.
It is the only way he can solve his Scottish problem, and, besides, by then, it might be an EXTREMELY popular position.
I don't think he will. He will campaign for "closer links" and "more co-operation" but he won't poke the hornet's nest with a referendum to rejoin.
He might renegotiate EEA entry on the sly after 2024 though. Personally, I think he'll just add to and beef-up the FTA and give more migration rights.
But he needs something to solve his Scotch problem.
Sturgeon will win in 2021 and demand indyref 2; the Tories, facing very possible defeat in this, will clearly say No ("once in a generation"). Yes this may well stoke grievance, but if the alternative is the ACTUAL loss of the Union then a bit of grievance can be tolerated. It might even work to the advantage of London if the Nats go mad and declare UDI or whatever,
So, we reach 2024, and Starmer is doing well in the polls but winning a majority without Scotland seems impossible. And the Nats will demand indyref2 as the price of support.
But if Starmer offers the Scots, and everyone else, a rethink on EU membership, then suddenly Scots might look more kindly on him.
My bet is there is a decent majority in Scotland for staying in the UK if it comes with EU membership. Game changer for Labour in Scotland?
If the SNP stand on a Referendum 2 platform and win a majority at Holyrood, Westminster opposing said referendum is constitutionally impossible in my view.
Well you better get used to it. This is what's about to happen. Westminster will say the question of referendums is reserved to Westminster, and will refuse.
The Nats will take it to the Supreme Court, and there they will lose, because the law is on the side of Westminster. It is not a grey area.
It will be a massive constitutional crisis, that I grant you. And it may in itself further the end of the Union. But the Tories will think fuck it, if the Union is likely finished anyway, let it not happen on our watch, and maybe something will turn up.
Prepare for this to be an endless debate from 2021-2024, when a probable Starmer government with NOM will finally have to seize the thistle
The fundamental point is that Boris Johnson, nor any likely successor should he step down early, will want to have their Premiership terminated by the loss of Scotland - which appears inevitable in the medium term. They therefore, as you suggest, have nothing left to lose by prevaricating.
The rupture of the Union can then be blamed on Labour, which strikes one as just desserts since Blair and his mates wrecked the constitutional structure of the UK for their own ends when they created asymmetric devolution in the first place. Labour sowed the wind...
Yes, indeed. Though I am less pessimistic than you on the inevitable end of the union.
Partition is much likelier than it was 3, 5, 10, 30 years ago, but inevitable? No. I do not think it is even probable. The economic case against it is so horrendous, even if the emotional case is being won by the Nats, at the mo.
But yes, the Union is in peril. Which is why no Tory PM will agree to a referendum til 2024 as long as the law is on his/her side. Which it is.
And yeah, Blair is to blame. What a total fuck-up he turned out to be.
The economic case was the main card that the Remain campaign had at their disposal, and look what happened to them.
If most Scots no longer feel British, no longer want Government from London, and regard the English as foreigners or even colonisers, then the Union is done for. I think that's where we now are. They've turned their backs on us, they're ready to move on, and making high-pitched whines about the Barnett formula, the public spending deficit and the pound won't make a jot of difference. It's over.
@Pagan2 are you the type who will kick off if an acquaintance suggests going to a different restaurant which has a more varied vegan selection?
Not at all I will kick off and refuse if they wish to goto a restaurant that only has vegan options though
Well I also think that’s stupid. It’s just as inconsiderate in the other direction. I also think that cross-contamination anxiety is a mental health issue.
Labour still have a bit of work to do in the Midlands.
Labour has an enormous amount of work to do almost everywhere South of the Humber, save for inner London. The fact that the Tories aren't doing worse isn't merely, as was suggested earlier, a product of the extraordinary circumstances created by Brexit and the Plague. Labour also has a dreadful image problem.
I'm not sure about that.
Their brand of politics (wokeness, veganism, Greta-loving, "ist" obsessed, and open immigration mindset) is seeping into the home counties through the 20 and 30 somethings, and those 40 and early 50 somethings who want to impress them.
Don't see much evidence for that around here TBH, and this is Hertfordshire, not Cornwall or the Welsh Marches.
Besides, the more Starmer sucks up to his core vote with metro left-liberal policies, the worse his position in the rubble of the Red Wall becomes.
One of my pubs a few miles away has gone full vegan-twat. I went there on Monday and they had 3 vegan dishes on a 7 dish menu, one fish, and then just "burger", "chicken burger" or "steak" as the other options. And their website now proclaims their veganism.
Shit. I walked out. It's only a short step from that to all the staff wearing BLM t-shirts.
I'm close(ish) to trendy liberal SW surrey, full of woke lycra louts, so that's perhaps where the infection is coming from.
Why do you have an irrational hatred of veganism? I’m not a vegan, but will happily enjoy a meal without meat often. It’s not the end of the world, and can be quite delicious in fact.
Maybe stop being so closed-minded and judgemental, and if you don’t like it, just don’t go.
“Eating meat” is not a personality just like “veganism” is not a personality.
Veganism is peak virtue signalling. Soy bean farms are destroying the rainforest and almond farms are responsible for droughts in California and the deaths of many, many millions of bees.
Try going on holiday to France with a friend who is vegetarian. It’s better now, but twenty years ago?
Italy was much better: lots of great pasta dishes that don’t use meat. Luckily she was not fussy about cheese, adopting a “don’t ask” policy.
I’ve just remembered an even trickier one: try going to Mongolia (and then China, a country that regards the French as picky eaters) with a vegetarian.
Precisely the point I made in the previous thread.
It's a thing.
I am increasingly convinced by my theory that Starmer, in 2024, will campaign to reenter EEA, or on a referendum to Rejoin the EU.
It is the only way he can solve his Scottish problem, and, besides, by then, it might be an EXTREMELY popular position.
I don't think he will. He will campaign for "closer links" and "more co-operation" but he won't poke the hornet's nest with a referendum to rejoin.
He might renegotiate EEA entry on the sly after 2024 though. Personally, I think he'll just add to and beef-up the FTA and give more migration rights.
But he needs something to solve his Scotch problem.
Sturgeon will win in 2021 and demand indyref 2; the Tories, facing very possible defeat in this, will clearly say No ("once in a generation"). Yes this may well stoke grievance, but if the alternative is the ACTUAL loss of the Union then a bit of grievance can be tolerated. It might even work to the advantage of London if the Nats go mad and declare UDI or whatever,
So, we reach 2024, and Starmer is doing well in the polls but winning a majority without Scotland seems impossible. And the Nats will demand indyref2 as the price of support.
But if Starmer offers the Scots, and everyone else, a rethink on EU membership, then suddenly Scots might look more kindly on him.
My bet is there is a decent majority in Scotland for staying in the UK if it comes with EU membership. Game changer for Labour in Scotland?
If the SNP stand on a Referendum 2 platform and win a majority at Holyrood, Westminster opposing said referendum is constitutionally impossible in my view.
Well you better get used to it. This is what's about to happen. Westminster will say the question of referendums is reserved to Westminster, and will refuse.
The Nats will take it to the Supreme Court, and there they will lose, because the law is on the side of Westminster. It is not a grey area.
It will be a massive constitutional crisis, that I grant you. And it may in itself further the end of the Union. But the Tories will think fuck it, if the Union is likely finished anyway, let it not happen on our watch, and maybe something will turn up.
Prepare for this to be an endless debate from 2021-2024, when a probable Starmer government with NOM will finally have to seize the thistle
The fundamental point is that Boris Johnson, nor any likely successor should he step down early, will want to have their Premiership terminated by the loss of Scotland - which appears inevitable in the medium term. They therefore, as you suggest, have nothing left to lose by prevaricating.
The rupture of the Union can then be blamed on Labour, which strikes one as just desserts since Blair and his mates wrecked the constitutional structure of the UK for their own ends when they created asymmetric devolution in the first place. Labour sowed the wind...
Yes, indeed. Though I am less pessimistic than you on the inevitable end of the union.
Partition is much likelier than it was 3, 5, 10, 30 years ago, but inevitable? No. I do not think it is even probable. The economic case against it is so horrendous, even if the emotional case is being won by the Nats, at the mo.
But yes, the Union is in peril. Which is why no Tory PM will agree to a referendum til 2024 as long as the law is on his/her side. Which it is.
And yeah, Blair is to blame. What a total fuck-up he turned out to be.
The economic case was the main card that the Remain campaign had at their disposal, and look what happened to them.
If most Scots no longer feel British, no longer want Government from London, and regard the English as foreigners or even colonisers, then the Union is done for. I think that's where we now are. They've turned their backs on us, they're ready to move on, and making high-pitched whines about the Barnett formula, the public spending deficit and the pound won't make a jot of difference. It's over.
Yes, possibly....... but opinions can also revert. Look at Quebec. Seemed destined for indy and separation was deemed inevitable, the die was cast, the emotions set in place... and yet the 2nd ref was very narrowly lost and now Quebec indy is barely an issue.
Pendulums swing. Always.
Moreover: polls during a global pandemic should be treated with caution, on all sides. Emotions run high. This, by the way, is true of polls giving Boris 30 point leads as of polls giving Starmer sudden popularity.
Try going on holiday to France with a friend who is vegetarian. It’s better now, but twenty years ago?
Italy was much better: lots of great pasta dishes that don’t use meat. Luckily she was not fussy about cheese, adopting a “don’t ask” policy.
I’ve just remembered an even trickier one: try going to Mongolia (and then China, a country that regards the French as picky eaters) with a vegetarian.
China in 2007 with a vegetarian was basically impossible, my friend had to give it up, and then he didn't look back lol.
Labour still have a bit of work to do in the Midlands.
Labour has an enormous amount of work to do almost everywhere South of the Humber, save for inner London. The fact that the Tories aren't doing worse isn't merely, as was suggested earlier, a product of the extraordinary circumstances created by Brexit and the Plague. Labour also has a dreadful image problem.
I'm not sure about that.
Their brand of politics (wokeness, veganism, Greta-loving, "ist" obsessed, and open immigration mindset) is seeping into the home counties through the 20 and 30 somethings, and those 40 and early 50 somethings who want to impress them.
Don't see much evidence for that around here TBH, and this is Hertfordshire, not Cornwall or the Welsh Marches.
Besides, the more Starmer sucks up to his core vote with metro left-liberal policies, the worse his position in the rubble of the Red Wall becomes.
One of my pubs a few miles away has gone full vegan-twat. I went there on Monday and they had 3 vegan dishes on a 7 dish menu, one fish, and then just "burger", "chicken burger" or "steak" as the other options. And their website now proclaims their veganism.
Shit. I walked out. It's only a short step from that to all the staff wearing BLM t-shirts.
I'm close(ish) to trendy liberal SW surrey, full of woke lycra louts, so that's perhaps where the infection is coming from.
Why do you have an irrational hatred of veganism? I’m not a vegan, but will happily enjoy a meal without meat often. It’s not the end of the world, and can be quite delicious in fact.
Maybe stop being so closed-minded and judgemental, and if you don’t like it, just don’t go.
“Eating meat” is not a personality just like “veganism” is not a personality.
Veganism is peak virtue signalling. Soy bean farms are destroying the rainforest and almond farms are responsible for droughts in California and the deaths of many, many millions of bees.
@Pagan2 are you the type who will kick off if an acquaintance suggests going to a different restaurant which has a more varied vegan selection?
Not at all I will kick off and refuse if they wish to goto a restaurant that only has vegan options though
Well I also think that’s stupid. It’s just as inconsiderate in the other direction. I also think that cross-contamination anxiety is a mental health issue.
Why is mine just as bad, I don't mind going to somewhere they can find a dish to eat. I like meat...salad is what my food eats. I am happy to go to a place where we can both have what we want and I am being inconisderate? I think you need to learn what that word means....being inconsiderate would be going somewhere they couldn't find anything they could get something to eat on the menu.
As to a mental health issue I merely point out these peoples reaction to the new polymer notes....no more neeed be said
This Government is destroying the Union day by day.
People on here were warning about this back in 2016 and that was with a more Conservative govt than the UKIP-lite we have now.
You are a beautiful example of the phenomena I've just posted about in response to @MaxPB
You have been driven mad by Brexit, and are now delighted that there's a new course of revenge that's potentially about to get served up on the table.
I do find it ironic that people insist that taking back control is ok regardless of the economic costs but it's not OK to give control back to a different group of people.
The only person I can think of on this site who is adamant there should be no second referendum even if the Scots vote to hold one is HYUFD - and he's a Remainer.
Not entirely. The result of a Holyrood election which sees turnout of circa 50% should not override a Referendum in respect of which 85% voted. The lower turnout for Holyrood v Westminster too would tend to suggest that voters in Scotland see it as a lower or secondary tier of authority.
The Holyrood election won't be overriding the Referendum. Overriding the referendum would be taking an SNP majority as a Yes vote. Instead the Holyrood election would merely set the stage for a new vote. Only a Yes Referendum can overturn the No.
As for lower turnout there is a very simple rule in politics: If you don't vote, you can't complain. If the 35% who didn't vote all don't want a second referendum then they should vote to say so. If they don't, that's their choice.
The SNP are seeking to use next year's Holyrood election to obtain a mandate - as they see it - to revist a decision taken by a clear margin in September 2014 on a turnout of circa 85%. The SNP First Minister at the time clearly stated that the decision then taken was to be binding 'for a generation'. A subsequent election on a circa 50% turnout for a second tier authority which lacks the authority to take such a decision cannot reasonably be viewed as a mandate - whether morally or legally. Holyrood can do no more than ask Westminster for such a vote . Westminster has every right to say 'No - Come back post 2035!'
That is a whacking fib - Salmond did not say indyref was binding for a generation, he just said it was th ekind of opportunity that comes along in a generation - and it had been since the first devolution vote was fiddled by Labour in 1978. ,
As any ful kno, once in a generation was written into the Edinburgh Agreement.
'Douglas Ross claimed in his BBC Good Morning Scotland interview that Nicola Sturgeon signed an agreement with the UK and Scottish Governments that the 2014 referendum would be a “once in a generation” vote.'
I've just been doing a little maths and it has highlighted something in the Covid hospital patient figures which I started to notice some time ago, and have always found rather strange. Consider:
According to the ONS, the proportion of the total UK population living in each of the four constituent home nations was estimated, as of mid-2019, to be as follows:
England 84.3% Scotland 8.2% Wales 4.7% NI 2.8%
Back on the 17th of April, near the peak of the pandemic, the proportions of total UK Covid-19 patients in hospital, in each of the four nations, were as follows:
England 85.1% Scotland 8.6% Wales 4.7% NI 1.6%
So, the Covid patients were distributed approximately in proportion to the populations of the nations. However, by the 17th of August, the most recent date for which complete data are available, the position is altogether different:
England 63.9% Scotland 27.7% Wales 7.9% NI 0.5%
Anyone have any idea what's going on here?
The SNP and Saint Nichola have done a awful job and got away with it as the MSM has gone after the Tories and treated the inept nationalist govt with reverence (aside from a few union leaning papers in Scotland). Just look at the free ride the inept Swinney got over the Scottish education Debracle. Making Williamson seem cerebral.
Useless fact: just checked my Betfair account and couldn't understand why I'd suddenly won £88. Turns out I'd placed a small bet on Joe Biden at 10/1 on 26th February this year. I'd totally forgotten about it. Can't believe he was that long just a few months ago.
Nice. I stuck with Biden through it all, with some small bets on others like Buttigieg when they were at high odds.
Labour still have a bit of work to do in the Midlands.
Labour has an enormous amount of work to do almost everywhere South of the Humber, save for inner London. The fact that the Tories aren't doing worse isn't merely, as was suggested earlier, a product of the extraordinary circumstances created by Brexit and the Plague. Labour also has a dreadful image problem.
I'm not sure about that.
Their brand of politics (wokeness, veganism, Greta-loving, "ist" obsessed, and open immigration mindset) is seeping into the home counties through the 20 and 30 somethings, and those 40 and early 50 somethings who want to impress them.
Don't see much evidence for that around here TBH, and this is Hertfordshire, not Cornwall or the Welsh Marches.
Besides, the more Starmer sucks up to his core vote with metro left-liberal policies, the worse his position in the rubble of the Red Wall becomes.
One of my pubs a few miles away has gone full vegan-twat. I went there on Monday and they had 3 vegan dishes on a 7 dish menu, one fish, and then just "burger", "chicken burger" or "steak" as the other options. And their website now proclaims their veganism.
Shit. I walked out. It's only a short step from that to all the staff wearing BLM t-shirts.
I'm close(ish) to trendy liberal SW surrey, full of woke lycra louts, so that's perhaps where the infection is coming from.
Why do you have an irrational hatred of veganism? I’m not a vegan, but will happily enjoy a meal without meat often. It’s not the end of the world, and can be quite delicious in fact.
Maybe stop being so closed-minded and judgemental, and if you don’t like it, just don’t go.
“Eating meat” is not a personality just like “veganism” is not a personality.
Veganism is peak virtue signalling. Soy bean farms are destroying the rainforest and almond farms are responsible for droughts in California and the deaths of many, many millions of bees.
With all due respect, that has eff all to do with veganism and everything to do with industrial farming practices. (And FWIW, I’m no particular fan of veganism.)
Precisely the point I made in the previous thread.
It's a thing.
I am increasingly convinced by my theory that Starmer, in 2024, will campaign to reenter EEA, or on a referendum to Rejoin the EU.
It is the only way he can solve his Scottish problem, and, besides, by then, it might be an EXTREMELY popular position.
I don't think he will. He will campaign for "closer links" and "more co-operation" but he won't poke the hornet's nest with a referendum to rejoin.
He might renegotiate EEA entry on the sly after 2024 though. Personally, I think he'll just add to and beef-up the FTA and give more migration rights.
But he needs something to solve his Scotch problem.
Sturgeon will win in 2021 and demand indyref 2; the Tories, facing very possible defeat in this, will clearly say No ("once in a generation"). Yes this may well stoke grievance, but if the alternative is the ACTUAL loss of the Union then a bit of grievance can be tolerated. It might even work to the advantage of London if the Nats go mad and declare UDI or whatever,
So, we reach 2024, and Starmer is doing well in the polls but winning a majority without Scotland seems impossible. And the Nats will demand indyref2 as the price of support.
But if Starmer offers the Scots, and everyone else, a rethink on EU membership, then suddenly Scots might look more kindly on him.
My bet is there is a decent majority in Scotland for staying in the UK if it comes with EU membership. Game changer for Labour in Scotland?
If the SNP stand on a Referendum 2 platform and win a majority at Holyrood, Westminster opposing said referendum is constitutionally impossible in my view.
Well you better get used to it. This is what's about to happen. Westminster will say the question of referendums is reserved to Westminster, and will refuse.
The Nats will take it to the Supreme Court, and there they will lose, because the law is on the side of Westminster. It is not a grey area.
It will be a massive constitutional crisis, that I grant you. And it may in itself further the end of the Union. But the Tories will think fuck it, if the Union is likely finished anyway, let it not happen on our watch, and maybe something will turn up.
Prepare for this to be an endless debate from 2021-2024, when a probable Starmer government with NOM will finally have to seize the thistle
Why oh why won't those Jocks accept that they're genetically Anglo Saxon?
Lowlanders like you are genetically identical to the native English. As you know, of course. Most of you ARE English.
It's the Gaels who are genetically different, on their dreaming islands. Bless 'em. I hope their dying language is saved.
I'm quarter Leodhasach and I think it's politically uninteresting apart from a talking point in a pub. Anyway, back to the joys of British nationalism.
Try going on holiday to France with a friend who is vegetarian. It’s better now, but twenty years ago?
Italy was much better: lots of great pasta dishes that don’t use meat. Luckily she was not fussy about cheese, adopting a “don’t ask” policy.
Yes - been there with a young family, one vegetarian, back then. France was pretty crap and uncompromising; Italy fantastic.
Had dinner 25 years ago in Paris with a vegetarian English solicitor and a French bigwig the solicitor was pandering to. Solicitor had ordering anxiety and was visibly relieved when he negotiated himself a main course themed around marrow. It turned out not to be vegetable marrow...
Precisely the point I made in the previous thread.
It's a thing.
I am increasingly convinced by my theory that Starmer, in 2024, will campaign to reenter EEA, or on a referendum to Rejoin the EU.
It is the only way he can solve his Scottish problem, and, besides, by then, it might be an EXTREMELY popular position.
I don't think he will. He will campaign for "closer links" and "more co-operation" but he won't poke the hornet's nest with a referendum to rejoin.
He might renegotiate EEA entry on the sly after 2024 though. Personally, I think he'll just add to and beef-up the FTA and give more migration rights.
But he needs something to solve his Scotch problem.
Sturgeon will win in 2021 and demand indyref 2; the Tories, facing very possible defeat in this, will clearly say No ("once in a generation"). Yes this may well stoke grievance, but if the alternative is the ACTUAL loss of the Union then a bit of grievance can be tolerated. It might even work to the advantage of London if the Nats go mad and declare UDI or whatever,
So, we reach 2024, and Starmer is doing well in the polls but winning a majority without Scotland seems impossible. And the Nats will demand indyref2 as the price of support.
But if Starmer offers the Scots, and everyone else, a rethink on EU membership, then suddenly Scots might look more kindly on him.
My bet is there is a decent majority in Scotland for staying in the UK if it comes with EU membership. Game changer for Labour in Scotland?
If the SNP stand on a Referendum 2 platform and win a majority at Holyrood, Westminster opposing said referendum is constitutionally impossible in my view.
Well you better get used to it. This is what's about to happen. Westminster will say the question of referendums is reserved to Westminster, and will refuse.
The Nats will take it to the Supreme Court, and there they will lose, because the law is on the side of Westminster. It is not a grey area.
It will be a massive constitutional crisis, that I grant you. And it may in itself further the end of the Union. But the Tories will think fuck it, if the Union is likely finished anyway, let it not happen on our watch, and maybe something will turn up.
Prepare for this to be an endless debate from 2021-2024, when a probable Starmer government with NOM will finally have to seize the thistle
The fundamental point is that Boris Johnson, nor any likely successor should he step down early, will want to have their Premiership terminated by the loss of Scotland - which appears inevitable in the medium term. They therefore, as you suggest, have nothing left to lose by prevaricating.
The rupture of the Union can then be blamed on Labour, which strikes one as just desserts since Blair and his mates wrecked the constitutional structure of the UK for their own ends when they created asymmetric devolution in the first place. Labour sowed the wind...
It’s laughable to suggest historians would blame Labour for the “loss of Scotland” after everything that has happened since 2010. No doubt Brexit would be considered a prime cause regardless.
Imagine if the Devo-Max that was promised after SindyRef had been implemented and Brexit not happened? I doubt support for Independence would be anywhere near where it is now.
Brexit has provided a useful weapon with which the prostrate body of the Union can be beaten, but the fundamental cause of its collapse was the devolution settlement - primarily the asymmetry in power, esteem and rights that was established between the constituent parts of the UK, their elected politicians and therefore their people; and secondarily the creation of a massive grievance engine, through the establishment of powerful devolved assemblies that were nonetheless left almost totally dependent for their funding on Westminster bloc grants.
Beyond that, you talk as if "DevoMax" was an oh-so-easy option that would make Scotland somehow happy to stay put. And maybe if the UK were to turn itself into a loose confederacy of four cantons with little in common but a free trade area, a system of transfer payments, a currency and a defence force that might even conceivably work - but this has NEVER been on offer. Because that can't work without DevoMax all round and an English Parliament, otherwise imbalances are taken to the extreme.
If Scotland alone becomes semi-independent then either you have a large bloc of Scottish MPs still sitting at Westminster, potentially controlling the balance of power and interfering on a massive scale in the domestic business of the rest of the country; or you strip Scotland of its MPs and turn it into a giant version of the Isle of Man, a bailiwick with no effective representation in any of the remaining reserved areas. The former scenario is unacceptable to the rest of the UK, the latter unacceptable to Scotland.
Labour hamstrung the Union in the first place. The SNP merely beat it to a bloody pulp when it was already on the floor.
Labour still have a bit of work to do in the Midlands.
Labour has an enormous amount of work to do almost everywhere South of the Humber, save for inner London. The fact that the Tories aren't doing worse isn't merely, as was suggested earlier, a product of the extraordinary circumstances created by Brexit and the Plague. Labour also has a dreadful image problem.
I'm not sure about that.
Their brand of politics (wokeness, veganism, Greta-loving, "ist" obsessed, and open immigration mindset) is seeping into the home counties through the 20 and 30 somethings, and those 40 and early 50 somethings who want to impress them.
Don't see much evidence for that around here TBH, and this is Hertfordshire, not Cornwall or the Welsh Marches.
Besides, the more Starmer sucks up to his core vote with metro left-liberal policies, the worse his position in the rubble of the Red Wall becomes.
One of my pubs a few miles away has gone full vegan-twat. I went there on Monday and they had 3 vegan dishes on a 7 dish menu, one fish, and then just "burger", "chicken burger" or "steak" as the other options. And their website now proclaims their veganism.
Shit. I walked out. It's only a short step from that to all the staff wearing BLM t-shirts.
I'm close(ish) to trendy liberal SW surrey, full of woke lycra louts, so that's perhaps where the infection is coming from.
Why do you have an irrational hatred of veganism? I’m not a vegan, but will happily enjoy a meal without meat often. It’s not the end of the world, and can be quite delicious in fact.
Maybe stop being so closed-minded and judgemental, and if you don’t like it, just don’t go.
“Eating meat” is not a personality just like “veganism” is not a personality.
Veganism is peak virtue signalling. Soy bean farms are destroying the rainforest and almond farms are responsible for droughts in California and the deaths of many, many millions of bees.
With all due respect, that has eff all to do with veganism and everything to do with industrial farming practices. (And FWIW, I’m no particular fan of veganism.)
True, however soybean feed gives around 10x as much milk from dairy cows as soy "milk" does per KG of soybeans. The demand for alternative milk like drinks from vegans has contributed a large portion of destruction of the rainforests.
New cases in Spain were over 7000 on the 14th, this is a disaster. I wouldn't be surprised if three was a new national lockdown to combat this as soon as tourists have gone home in 10 or so days.
Labour still have a bit of work to do in the Midlands.
Labour has an enormous amount of work to do almost everywhere South of the Humber, save for inner London. The fact that the Tories aren't doing worse isn't merely, as was suggested earlier, a product of the extraordinary circumstances created by Brexit and the Plague. Labour also has a dreadful image problem.
I'm not sure about that.
Their brand of politics (wokeness, veganism, Greta-loving, "ist" obsessed, and open immigration mindset) is seeping into the home counties through the 20 and 30 somethings, and those 40 and early 50 somethings who want to impress them.
Don't see much evidence for that around here TBH, and this is Hertfordshire, not Cornwall or the Welsh Marches.
Besides, the more Starmer sucks up to his core vote with metro left-liberal policies, the worse his position in the rubble of the Red Wall becomes.
One of my pubs a few miles away has gone full vegan-twat. I went there on Monday and they had 3 vegan dishes on a 7 dish menu, one fish, and then just "burger", "chicken burger" or "steak" as the other options. And their website now proclaims their veganism.
Shit. I walked out. It's only a short step from that to all the staff wearing BLM t-shirts.
I'm close(ish) to trendy liberal SW surrey, full of woke lycra louts, so that's perhaps where the infection is coming from.
Free your mind, Casino. Vegan food won’t kill you; some of it even tastes OK.
Labour still have a bit of work to do in the Midlands.
Labour has an enormous amount of work to do almost everywhere South of the Humber, save for inner London. The fact that the Tories aren't doing worse isn't merely, as was suggested earlier, a product of the extraordinary circumstances created by Brexit and the Plague. Labour also has a dreadful image problem.
I'm not sure about that.
Their brand of politics (wokeness, veganism, Greta-loving, "ist" obsessed, and open immigration mindset) is seeping into the home counties through the 20 and 30 somethings, and those 40 and early 50 somethings who want to impress them.
Don't see much evidence for that around here TBH, and this is Hertfordshire, not Cornwall or the Welsh Marches.
Besides, the more Starmer sucks up to his core vote with metro left-liberal policies, the worse his position in the rubble of the Red Wall becomes.
One of my pubs a few miles away has gone full vegan-twat. I went there on Monday and they had 3 vegan dishes on a 7 dish menu, one fish, and then just "burger", "chicken burger" or "steak" as the other options. And their website now proclaims their veganism.
Shit. I walked out. It's only a short step from that to all the staff wearing BLM t-shirts.
I'm close(ish) to trendy liberal SW surrey, full of woke lycra louts, so that's perhaps where the infection is coming from.
Why do you have an irrational hatred of veganism? I’m not a vegan, but will happily enjoy a meal without meat often. It’s not the end of the world, and can be quite delicious in fact.
Maybe stop being so closed-minded and judgemental, and if you don’t like it, just don’t go.
“Eating meat” is not a personality just like “veganism” is not a personality.
Veganism is peak virtue signalling. Soy bean farms are destroying the rainforest and almond farms are responsible for droughts in California and the deaths of many, many millions of bees.
Palm Oil plantations too. They’re a menace.
I've been converted to accepting palm oil, though I think it needs to be farmed more sustainably. In terms of density of oil gained by hectare palm oil is incredible. The issue is that nations that grow it aren't doing it sustainably, this is the kind of thing the aid budget should be used for. We have no chance of ever making palm oil in the UK, but we can contribute money towards sustainable development of palm oil plantations.
This Government is destroying the Union day by day.
People on here were warning about this back in 2016 and that was with a more Conservative govt than the UKIP-lite we have now.
You are a beautiful example of the phenomena I've just posted about in response to @MaxPB
You have been driven mad by Brexit, and are now delighted that there's a new course of revenge that's potentially about to get served up on the table.
I do find it ironic that people insist that taking back control is ok regardless of the economic costs but it's not OK to give control back to a different group of people.
The only person I can think of on this site who is adamant there should be no second referendum even if the Scots vote to hold one is HYUFD - and he's a Remainer.
Not entirely. The result of a Holyrood election which sees turnout of circa 50% should not override a Referendum in respect of which 85% voted. The lower turnout for Holyrood v Westminster too would tend to suggest that voters in Scotland see it as a lower or secondary tier of authority.
The Holyrood election won't be overriding the Referendum. Overriding the referendum would be taking an SNP majority as a Yes vote. Instead the Holyrood election would merely set the stage for a new vote. Only a Yes Referendum can overturn the No.
As for lower turnout there is a very simple rule in politics: If you don't vote, you can't complain. If the 35% who didn't vote all don't want a second referendum then they should vote to say so. If they don't, that's their choice.
The SNP are seeking to use next year's Holyrood election to obtain a mandate - as they see it - to revist a decision taken by a clear margin in September 2014 on a turnout of circa 85%. The SNP First Minister at the time clearly stated that the decision then taken was to be binding 'for a generation'. A subsequent election on a circa 50% turnout for a second tier authority which lacks the authority to take such a decision cannot reasonably be viewed as a mandate - whether morally or legally. Holyrood can do no more than ask Westminster for such a vote . Westminster has every right to say 'No - Come back post 2035!'
That is a whacking fib - Salmond did not say indyref was binding for a generation, he just said it was th ekind of opportunity that comes along in a generation - and it had been since the first devolution vote was fiddled by Labour in 1978. ,
As any ful kno, once in a generation was written into the Edinburgh Agreement.
'Douglas Ross claimed in his BBC Good Morning Scotland interview that Nicola Sturgeon signed an agreement with the UK and Scottish Governments that the 2014 referendum would be a “once in a generation” vote.'
Precisely the point I made in the previous thread.
It's a thing.
I am increasingly convinced by my theory that Starmer, in 2024, will campaign to reenter EEA, or on a referendum to Rejoin the EU.
It is the only way he can solve his Scottish problem, and, besides, by then, it might be an EXTREMELY popular position.
I don't think he will. He will campaign for "closer links" and "more co-operation" but he won't poke the hornet's nest with a referendum to rejoin.
He might renegotiate EEA entry on the sly after 2024 though. Personally, I think he'll just add to and beef-up the FTA and give more migration rights.
But he needs something to solve his Scotch problem.
Sturgeon will win in 2021 and demand indyref 2; the Tories, facing very possible defeat in this, will clearly say No ("once in a generation"). Yes this may well stoke grievance, but if the alternative is the ACTUAL loss of the Union then a bit of grievance can be tolerated. It might even work to the advantage of London if the Nats go mad and declare UDI or whatever,
So, we reach 2024, and Starmer is doing well in the polls but winning a majority without Scotland seems impossible. And the Nats will demand indyref2 as the price of support.
But if Starmer offers the Scots, and everyone else, a rethink on EU membership, then suddenly Scots might look more kindly on him.
My bet is there is a decent majority in Scotland for staying in the UK if it comes with EU membership. Game changer for Labour in Scotland?
If the SNP stand on a Referendum 2 platform and win a majority at Holyrood, Westminster opposing said referendum is constitutionally impossible in my view.
Well you better get used to it. This is what's about to happen. Westminster will say the question of referendums is reserved to Westminster, and will refuse.
The Nats will take it to the Supreme Court, and there they will lose, because the law is on the side of Westminster. It is not a grey area.
It will be a massive constitutional crisis, that I grant you. And it may in itself further the end of the Union. But the Tories will think fuck it, if the Union is likely finished anyway, let it not happen on our watch, and maybe something will turn up.
Prepare for this to be an endless debate from 2021-2024, when a probable Starmer government with NOM will finally have to seize the thistle
Why oh why won't those Jocks accept that they're genetically Anglo Saxon?
Lowlanders like you are genetically identical to the native English. As you know, of course. Most of you ARE English.
It's the Gaels who are genetically different, on their dreaming islands. Bless 'em. I hope their dying language is saved.
I'm quarter Leodhasach and I think it's politically uninteresting apart from a talking point in a pub. Anyway, back to the joys of British nationalism.
Hasn’t this been the case for many years. It was just as bad when the labour regime was in charge and I have no doubt when Starmer wins in 2024 this will be the case a few years into his term. It’s a rotten system where failure is rewarded with advancement and promotion for merely being part of the ‘chumocracy’ as one journalist put it.
Precisely the point I made in the previous thread.
It's a thing.
I am increasingly convinced by my theory that Starmer, in 2024, will campaign to reenter EEA, or on a referendum to Rejoin the EU.
It is the only way he can solve his Scottish problem, and, besides, by then, it might be an EXTREMELY popular position.
I don't think he will. He will campaign for "closer links" and "more co-operation" but he won't poke the hornet's nest with a referendum to rejoin.
He might renegotiate EEA entry on the sly after 2024 though. Personally, I think he'll just add to and beef-up the FTA and give more migration rights.
But he needs something to solve his Scotch problem.
Sturgeon will win in 2021 and demand indyref 2; the Tories, facing very possible defeat in this, will clearly say No ("once in a generation"). Yes this may well stoke grievance, but if the alternative is the ACTUAL loss of the Union then a bit of grievance can be tolerated. It might even work to the advantage of London if the Nats go mad and declare UDI or whatever,
So, we reach 2024, and Starmer is doing well in the polls but winning a majority without Scotland seems impossible. And the Nats will demand indyref2 as the price of support.
But if Starmer offers the Scots, and everyone else, a rethink on EU membership, then suddenly Scots might look more kindly on him.
My bet is there is a decent majority in Scotland for staying in the UK if it comes with EU membership. Game changer for Labour in Scotland?
If the SNP stand on a Referendum 2 platform and win a majority at Holyrood, Westminster opposing said referendum is constitutionally impossible in my view.
I don’t think that a majority is an issue. If the SNP got 40% , the little Green helpers got 5% but parties committed to not having a referendum got 55% I don’t think that is a problem. If the SNP + Greens get 50%+ that’s different and I think that the case for a second referendum becomes unanswerable.
But if Johnson still says 'No', what can the SNP do?
Labour still have a bit of work to do in the Midlands.
Labour has an enormous amount of work to do almost everywhere South of the Humber, save for inner London. The fact that the Tories aren't doing worse isn't merely, as was suggested earlier, a product of the extraordinary circumstances created by Brexit and the Plague. Labour also has a dreadful image problem.
I'm not sure about that.
Their brand of politics (wokeness, veganism, Greta-loving, "ist" obsessed, and open immigration mindset) is seeping into the home counties through the 20 and 30 somethings, and those 40 and early 50 somethings who want to impress them.
Don't see much evidence for that around here TBH, and this is Hertfordshire, not Cornwall or the Welsh Marches.
Besides, the more Starmer sucks up to his core vote with metro left-liberal policies, the worse his position in the rubble of the Red Wall becomes.
One of my pubs a few miles away has gone full vegan-twat. I went there on Monday and they had 3 vegan dishes on a 7 dish menu, one fish, and then just "burger", "chicken burger" or "steak" as the other options. And their website now proclaims their veganism.
Shit. I walked out. It's only a short step from that to all the staff wearing BLM t-shirts.
I'm close(ish) to trendy liberal SW surrey, full of woke lycra louts, so that's perhaps where the infection is coming from.
Why do you have an irrational hatred of veganism? I’m not a vegan, but will happily enjoy a meal without meat often. It’s not the end of the world, and can be quite delicious in fact.
Maybe stop being so closed-minded and judgemental, and if you don’t like it, just don’t go.
“Eating meat” is not a personality just like “veganism” is not a personality.
Veganism is peak virtue signalling. Soy bean farms are destroying the rainforest and almond farms are responsible for droughts in California and the deaths of many, many millions of bees.
With all due respect, that has eff all to do with veganism and everything to do with industrial farming practices. (And FWIW, I’m no particular fan of veganism.)
True, however soybean feed gives around 10x as much milk from dairy cows as soy "milk" does per KG of soybeans. The demand for alternative milk like drinks from vegans has contributed a large portion of destruction of the rainforests.
Is that apples-for-apples? Isn't soybean feed, soyabeans with most of the water taken out, and with a binding agent put in?
@Pagan2 are you the type who will kick off if an acquaintance suggests going to a different restaurant which has a more varied vegan selection?
Not at all I will kick off and refuse if they wish to goto a restaurant that only has vegan options though
I'm an enthusiastic meat eater, but there are some great Indian vegetarian restaurants around Drummond Street in London.
I really don't mind so much despite my quip eating something vegetarian however I do want the choice not to. There have been times I have eaten something that is vegetarian....though not vegan definitely because it sounded nice. You insist on going to a restaurant where your choice is forced on me and that is rude. It would be like me taking a friend that doesnt like fish to a seafood restaurant
Labour still have a bit of work to do in the Midlands.
Labour has an enormous amount of work to do almost everywhere South of the Humber, save for inner London. The fact that the Tories aren't doing worse isn't merely, as was suggested earlier, a product of the extraordinary circumstances created by Brexit and the Plague. Labour also has a dreadful image problem.
I'm not sure about that.
Their brand of politics (wokeness, veganism, Greta-loving, "ist" obsessed, and open immigration mindset) is seeping into the home counties through the 20 and 30 somethings, and those 40 and early 50 somethings who want to impress them.
Don't see much evidence for that around here TBH, and this is Hertfordshire, not Cornwall or the Welsh Marches.
Besides, the more Starmer sucks up to his core vote with metro left-liberal policies, the worse his position in the rubble of the Red Wall becomes.
One of my pubs a few miles away has gone full vegan-twat. I went there on Monday and they had 3 vegan dishes on a 7 dish menu, one fish, and then just "burger", "chicken burger" or "steak" as the other options. And their website now proclaims their veganism.
Shit. I walked out. It's only a short step from that to all the staff wearing BLM t-shirts.
I'm close(ish) to trendy liberal SW surrey, full of woke lycra louts, so that's perhaps where the infection is coming from.
Why do you have an irrational hatred of veganism? I’m not a vegan, but will happily enjoy a meal without meat often. It’s not the end of the world, and can be quite delicious in fact.
Maybe stop being so closed-minded and judgemental, and if you don’t like it, just don’t go.
“Eating meat” is not a personality just like “veganism” is not a personality.
Veganism is peak virtue signalling. Soy bean farms are destroying the rainforest and almond farms are responsible for droughts in California and the deaths of many, many millions of bees.
With all due respect, that has eff all to do with veganism and everything to do with industrial farming practices. (And FWIW, I’m no particular fan of veganism.)
True, however soybean feed gives around 10x as much milk from dairy cows as soy "milk" does per KG of soybeans. The demand for alternative milk like drinks from vegans has contributed a large portion of destruction of the rainforests.
Is that apples-for-apples? Isn't soybean feed, soyabeans with most of the water taken out, and with a binding agent put in?
Yes, it's because cows have much more in their diets than soybeans, grass for example, which we can't turn into a milk like drink.
Labour still have a bit of work to do in the Midlands.
Labour has an enormous amount of work to do almost everywhere South of the Humber, save for inner London. The fact that the Tories aren't doing worse isn't merely, as was suggested earlier, a product of the extraordinary circumstances created by Brexit and the Plague. Labour also has a dreadful image problem.
I'm not sure about that.
Their brand of politics (wokeness, veganism, Greta-loving, "ist" obsessed, and open immigration mindset) is seeping into the home counties through the 20 and 30 somethings, and those 40 and early 50 somethings who want to impress them.
Don't see much evidence for that around here TBH, and this is Hertfordshire, not Cornwall or the Welsh Marches.
Besides, the more Starmer sucks up to his core vote with metro left-liberal policies, the worse his position in the rubble of the Red Wall becomes.
One of my pubs a few miles away has gone full vegan-twat. I went there on Monday and they had 3 vegan dishes on a 7 dish menu, one fish, and then just "burger", "chicken burger" or "steak" as the other options. And their website now proclaims their veganism.
Shit. I walked out. It's only a short step from that to all the staff wearing BLM t-shirts.
I'm close(ish) to trendy liberal SW surrey, full of woke lycra louts, so that's perhaps where the infection is coming from.
Free your mind, Casino. Vegan food won’t kill you; some of it even tastes OK.
To use one of my sister's argument. Yeah but bacon.
Precisely the point I made in the previous thread.
It's a thing.
I am increasingly convinced by my theory that Starmer, in 2024, will campaign to reenter EEA, or on a referendum to Rejoin the EU.
It is the only way he can solve his Scottish problem, and, besides, by then, it might be an EXTREMELY popular position.
I don't think he will. He will campaign for "closer links" and "more co-operation" but he won't poke the hornet's nest with a referendum to rejoin.
He might renegotiate EEA entry on the sly after 2024 though. Personally, I think he'll just add to and beef-up the FTA and give more migration rights.
But he needs something to solve his Scotch problem.
Sturgeon will win in 2021 and demand indyref 2; the Tories, facing very possible defeat in this, will clearly say No ("once in a generation"). Yes this may well stoke grievance, but if the alternative is the ACTUAL loss of the Union then a bit of grievance can be tolerated. It might even work to the advantage of London if the Nats go mad and declare UDI or whatever,
So, we reach 2024, and Starmer is doing well in the polls but winning a majority without Scotland seems impossible. And the Nats will demand indyref2 as the price of support.
But if Starmer offers the Scots, and everyone else, a rethink on EU membership, then suddenly Scots might look more kindly on him.
My bet is there is a decent majority in Scotland for staying in the UK if it comes with EU membership. Game changer for Labour in Scotland?
If the SNP stand on a Referendum 2 platform and win a majority at Holyrood, Westminster opposing said referendum is constitutionally impossible in my view.
I don’t think that a majority is an issue. If the SNP got 40% , the little Green helpers got 5% but parties committed to not having a referendum got 55% I don’t think that is a problem. If the SNP + Greens get 50%+ that’s different and I think that the case for a second referendum becomes unanswerable.
But if Johnson still says 'No', what can the SNP do?
Comments
I'm not seeing a winning constituency, nationwide, on opening up the Brexit sore all over again in less than 4 years unless it's a complete and abject disaster.
It'd be more likely to shore up the Conservative vote whilst only tinkering at the margins in Scotland.
They might cheer on pulling down statues in England though, or something, to vent their frustration ad infinitum as Conservative Governments continue.
Freight
Weight
Pleiades
Sleigh
Neigh
Shit. I walked out. It's only a short step from that to all the staff wearing BLM t-shirts.
I'm close(ish) to trendy liberal SW surrey, full of woke lycra louts, so that's perhaps where the infection is coming from.
And BoZo is about to get a U
2024 is four years away. Who knows.
My personal hunch is that Rejoin would win a 2nd vote held in the next few years. However if it we wait a decade - til 2030? - we will *never* rejoin. By then we will be used to life outside.
It's not enough for economic growth to be slightly slower or the pound slightly weaker, for that criteria to be met there'd have to be serious economic damage to people's livelihoods and incomes and real diminution in the quality of life.
That hasn't happened. And I don't think it will. We'll get extra bureaucracy for exports/imports and travel next year, but otherwise things will carry on the same (with some popular things like new migration controls and some regulatory changes), the economy will grow and life will go on.
The fuck-a-duck shitstorm coming next year is wading straight into Sindyref too and constitutional drama over Scotland just weeks after Brexit.
We cannot live without schools. Parents can't go to work, kids are damaged forever. They are the absolute priority.
Senior management pal around.....those below middle management don't want to know
BoZO went on holiday. Again.
https://www.vegansociety.com/news/media/statistics#:~:text=Veganism in the UK,-In 2018, the&text=The number of vegans in,150,000 (0.25%) in 2014.
It's the politics that would be tricky, but BoZo doesn't care.
Exams should have been made to work as well.
Otherwise he wont and rightly so.
The Nats will take it to the Supreme Court, and there they will lose, because the law is on the side of Westminster. It is not a grey area.
It will be a massive constitutional crisis, that I grant you. And it may in itself further the end of the Union. But the Tories will think fuck it, if the Union is likely finished anyway, let it not happen on our watch, and maybe something will turn up.
Prepare for this to be an endless debate from 2021-2024, when a probable Starmer government with NOM will finally have to seize the thistle
'Douglas Ross claimed in his BBC Good Morning Scotland interview that Nicola Sturgeon signed an agreement with the UK and Scottish Governments that the 2014 referendum would be a “once in a generation” vote.'
https://tinyurl.com/y5dldnne
Maybe stop being so closed-minded and judgemental, and if you don’t like it, just don’t go.
“Eating meat” is not a personality just like “veganism” is not a personality.
To be fair to HMG, other European governments have equally fucked it up (unlike the Teutons),. and the teaching unions must share some blame, but the management of education during the pandemic has been dreadful.
Gavin Williamson should have been thrown on the compost heap of political history 6 months ago. Give Jeremy Hunt the job. Give my daughter's budgie the job, Give Keith bloody Chegwin the job, he'd be better, and he's dead. FFS.
There will be schools across the country opening in September missing one or more staff: in some cases several. The sort of teacher who is still looking for a post is often, perhaps even usually, the sort of teacher you would only appoint if you had no other option (and in some cases not even then). If you do have to then you make sure that they are closely supervised. (I’m not talking about any child protection issues here, but some combination of general inability to control a class, poor knowledge of the subject, or unwillingness to prepare for lessons).
This is something that would be difficult to organise with six months notice.
It could have been done; reduce class sizes, run split shifts, find buildings to co-opt (unlikely to help at scale, but worth a try), find a workable reduced menu of lessons, get the broadcast learning up to scratch, identify the spare staff to stand in for those who are isolating...
Some of that has been done. But the bubbles are still too big, and the low level of Covid in the community will hit some of those bubbles, and there's not enough resilience in the system to be sure of coping. Early September will be fine, but late October looks very dicey.
It's what happens when you have a government dominated by the skills of selling and opinionating, rather than governing.
It's the Gaels who are genetically different, on their dreaming islands. Bless 'em. I hope their dying language is saved.
The rupture of the Union can then be blamed on Labour, which strikes one as just desserts since Blair and his mates wrecked the constitutional structure of the UK for their own ends when they created asymmetric devolution in the first place. Labour sowed the wind...
I eat meat, I don't feel the need to go telling them how much better they would be eating meat. They leave me be I leave them be. Sadly most in my experience are evangelical vegans
If this trend continues, the LDs have a mountain range to scale.
Imagine if the Devo-Max that was promised after SindyRef had been implemented and Brexit not happened? I doubt support for Independence would be anywhere near where it is now.
It could alternatively be the case he’s now only hanging on to see through Brexit and will be gone in Q1 next year.
Politically, yes, but BoZo doesn't care.
Salmon did say that it was a once in a generation vote though, and even agreed that 18-20 years was what he meant by a generation.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-scotland-29196661
According to the ONS, the proportion of the total UK population living in each of the four constituent home nations was estimated, as of mid-2019, to be as follows:
England 84.3%
Scotland 8.2%
Wales 4.7%
NI 2.8%
Back on the 17th of April, near the peak of the pandemic, the proportions of total UK Covid-19 patients in hospital, in each of the four nations, were as follows:
England 85.1%
Scotland 8.6%
Wales 4.7%
NI 1.6%
So, the Covid patients were distributed approximately in proportion to the populations of the nations. However, by the 17th of August, the most recent date for which complete data are available, the position is altogether different:
England 63.9%
Scotland 27.7%
Wales 7.9%
NI 0.5%
Anyone have any idea what's going on here?
Partition is much likelier than it was 3, 5, 10, 30 years ago, but inevitable? No. I do not think it is even probable. The economic case against it is so horrendous, even if the emotional case is being won by the Nats, at the mo.
But yes, the Union is in peril. Which is why no Tory PM will agree to a referendum til 2024 as long as the law is on his/her side. Which it is.
And yeah, Blair is to blame. What a total fuck-up he turned out to be.
Worth a look at his other observations on Lib Dems and Labour.
If most Scots no longer feel British, no longer want Government from London, and regard the English as foreigners or even colonisers, then the Union is done for. I think that's where we now are. They've turned their backs on us, they're ready to move on, and making high-pitched whines about the Barnett formula, the public spending deficit and the pound won't make a jot of difference. It's over.
Try going on holiday to France with a friend who is vegetarian. It’s better now, but twenty years ago?
Italy was much better: lots of great pasta dishes that don’t use meat. Luckily she was not fussy about cheese, adopting a “don’t ask” policy.
Pendulums swing. Always.
Moreover: polls during a global pandemic should be treated with caution, on all sides. Emotions run high. This, by the way, is true of polls giving Boris 30 point leads as of polls giving Starmer sudden popularity.
France was pretty crap and uncompromising; Italy fantastic.
As to a mental health issue I merely point out these peoples reaction to the new polymer notes....no more neeed be said
Not sure who this Salmon bloke is, seems a bit fishy.
Made a nice £25 laying Bernie back in January.
BoZo doesn't care.
(And FWIW, I’m no particular fan of veganism.)
Beyond that, you talk as if "DevoMax" was an oh-so-easy option that would make Scotland somehow happy to stay put. And maybe if the UK were to turn itself into a loose confederacy of four cantons with little in common but a free trade area, a system of transfer payments, a currency and a defence force that might even conceivably work - but this has NEVER been on offer. Because that can't work without DevoMax all round and an English Parliament, otherwise imbalances are taken to the extreme.
If Scotland alone becomes semi-independent then either you have a large bloc of Scottish MPs still sitting at Westminster, potentially controlling the balance of power and interfering on a massive scale in the domestic business of the rest of the country; or you strip Scotland of its MPs and turn it into a giant version of the Isle of Man, a bailiwick with no effective representation in any of the remaining reserved areas. The former scenario is unacceptable to the rest of the UK, the latter unacceptable to Scotland.
Labour hamstrung the Union in the first place. The SNP merely beat it to a bloody pulp when it was already on the floor.
Vegan food won’t kill you; some of it even tastes OK.
Did you watch the video though?
https://twitter.com/_edwardcrawford/status/1296029833928081408?s=21