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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,131
    MaxPB said:

    Imagine trying to run a presidential campaign with a leader as insipid and uncharismatic as Starmer. Boris and Cummings would relish it.

    Starmer would be one of the most boring PMs we have ever had but sometimes dull can win eg 1945, 1970 or 1992
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    It's Keir time bitches
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    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    At some point, these continuous cock ups have got to hurt the Tory lead, even if Labour does nothing. The Tories must surely lose points. Am I mad?

    If there was an alternative government-in-waiting with alternative ideas then that might make it tougher for the government.
    How would it be tougher? There isn't going to be a GE for nearly four years, nothing Labour can say now will change that.
    Labour were a creditable government in waiting for years before 1997.

    Starmer so far seems to think that being not-Corbyn is enough and then he can coast to victory. He needs to start saying something other than tut-tutting if he wants to be taken seriously.
    This is exactly what governments start to say when they start to lose it. Bless.
    This government is fantastic in my humble opinion.

    That they recognise their mistakes swiftly and turn them around within a few days is good not bad.
    I'm all for not criticising people overmuch for u-turning, we need u-turns, and so it depends how obvious a mess there was and how obvious the solution to avoid the need for a u-turn (which cannot be that obvious if all the other nations seemed to cock up as well, independently), but also so long as a u-turn from the other side is treated with the same attitude.
    Has Philip ever said Labour were good for doing a U-turn?
    I don't know, you'd have to ask him. All I know is u-turns always get criticised, as does being 'stubborn' and not u-turning. Then when it happens there's criticism for it being too late, but if done quickly it shows weakness.

    It's a particular hypocritical element of our political discourse, which has hypocrises enough as it is, but is generally easily smoked out with the age old question: would I criticise this if my own side did it/the other side did it?

    I don't think many of us pass the test often enough.
    There is late, and there is too late. Changing the A level grades awarded after many universities have closed clearing is most certainly the latter. It just adds insult to injury for those who lost out.
    But its not closed. They've said that original offers should be restored.
    How's that going to work, then? I thought university place numbers had been capped?
    The caps been lifted.
    That's the cap that was put in place just two months ago in June to stop universities “taking a recruitment approach which would go against the interests of students and the sector as a whole” according to the Department of Education. So a recruitment approach that goes against the interests of students and the sector as a whole is OK now then, is it?
    The situations been changed with everyone getting the predicted grades now. There are more people getting the best grades than ever before - the cap does not make sense anymore.
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    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    Imagine trying to run a presidential campaign with a leader as insipid and uncharismatic as Starmer. Boris and Cummings would relish it.

    Starmer would be one of the most boring PMs we have ever had but sometimes dull can win eg 1945, 1970 or 1992
    I don't think 1992 works.

    Major may have been boring, but when he got on his soapbox he still had more life to him than Kinnock did.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,793

    He's clear, he's Keir

    The end of the Keir show.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,907

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    Imagine trying to run a presidential campaign with a leader as insipid and uncharismatic as Starmer. Boris and Cummings would relish it.

    Starmer would be one of the most boring PMs we have ever had but sometimes dull can win eg 1945, 1970 or 1992
    I don't think 1992 works.

    Major may have been boring, but when he got on his soapbox he still had more life to him than Kinnock did.
    Maybe I'm odd but I always thought Major was quite an interesting politician.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,793
    Yokes said:

    Its dead simple : Keir Starmer: Trust me, I'm a lawyer

    Conservative majority sorted.

    I think Lawyers are trusted more than journalists, but it is rather like assessing precedence between a louse and a flea.
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    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    Imagine trying to run a presidential campaign with a leader as insipid and uncharismatic as Starmer. Boris and Cummings would relish it.

    Starmer would be one of the most boring PMs we have ever had but sometimes dull can win eg 1945, 1970 or 1992
    I don't think 1992 works.

    Major may have been boring, but when he got on his soapbox he still had more life to him than Kinnock did.
    Maybe I'm odd but I always thought Major was quite an interesting politician.
    Lad.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,793

    Three word slogans for Labour

    Honest, fair and caring.
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    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    Imagine trying to run a presidential campaign with a leader as insipid and uncharismatic as Starmer. Boris and Cummings would relish it.

    Starmer would be one of the most boring PMs we have ever had but sometimes dull can win eg 1945, 1970 or 1992
    I don't think 1992 works.

    Major may have been boring, but when he got on his soapbox he still had more life to him than Kinnock did.
    Maybe I'm odd but I always thought Major was quite an interesting politician.
    Indeed. Compared to Blair he's never going to do well, but compared to Kinnock? He was easily the more interesting.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,131
    edited August 2020

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    Imagine trying to run a presidential campaign with a leader as insipid and uncharismatic as Starmer. Boris and Cummings would relish it.

    Starmer would be one of the most boring PMs we have ever had but sometimes dull can win eg 1945, 1970 or 1992
    I don't think 1992 works.

    Major may have been boring, but when he got on his soapbox he still had more life to him than Kinnock did.
    He was good at street politics but Kinnock had more charisma overall, 1992 was the last general election the least charismatic candidate won a majority
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,131
    Foxy said:

    Yokes said:

    Its dead simple : Keir Starmer: Trust me, I'm a lawyer

    Conservative majority sorted.

    I think Lawyers are trusted more than journalists, but it is rather like assessing precedence between a louse and a flea.
    Attlee, Thatcher and Blair were all lawyers
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    I have 2 friends whose daughters moved into UNG accommodation over the weekend. I'm sure they are just thrilled. How dumb can you get? You can't fix stupid.

    https://www.gainesvilletimes.com/news/education/ung-disappointed-with-large-groups-of-partying-ung-students-days-before-classes-start/
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    Sorry this must have been asked but why is the header saying palatialbetting.com?
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    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,788
    edited August 2020
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Yokes said:

    Its dead simple : Keir Starmer: Trust me, I'm a lawyer

    Conservative majority sorted.

    I think Lawyers are trusted more than journalists, but it is rather like assessing precedence between a louse and a flea.
    Attlee, Thatcher and Blair were all lawyers
    Can you imagine a world without lawyers?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2VxpTMAbas
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,774

    Sorry this must have been asked but why is the header saying palatialbetting.com?

    Hacker's joke?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,989

    Sorry this must have been asked but why is the header saying palatialbetting.com?

    We're moving in new directions. Politics was getting a bit too boring.

    (More seriously, someone hacked PB as a demonstration of how easy it was to hack PB. The admins are aware.)
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    No tears Keir
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    StockyStocky Posts: 9,736

    Sorry this must have been asked but why is the header saying palatialbetting.com?

    Friendly hacker - showing site still vulnerable
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,774

    Three word slogans for Labour

    Strong and stable.

    Oh, already copyrighted?
    Already trashed.
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    No tears Keir

    Headlines on 3/5/24:

    Tears for Keir
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,618
    Walked past an outdoor rave/party in a square in Palermo, we decided to join for a bit. Really hoping we can get the clubs open ASAP as there is definitely something lacking from life at the moment and I think dancing in bars and clubs is part of it. It was the first time either myself of my wife have really just cut loose and had a proper dance since probably Xmas last year, we'd normally go to bars at least once every couple of weeks with friends and go to a nostalgia 90s night every couple of months as well. I've just realised how much I miss it and meeting friends there.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited August 2020
    CatMan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Yokes said:

    Its dead simple : Keir Starmer: Trust me, I'm a lawyer

    Conservative majority sorted.

    I think Lawyers are trusted more than journalists, but it is rather like assessing precedence between a louse and a flea.
    Attlee, Thatcher and Blair were all lawyers
    Can you imagine a world without lawyers?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2VxpTMAbas
    He and Troy McClure were two of my favourite recurring characters.

    Was a terrible shame what happened to Hartman.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,222
    Foxy said:

    Three word slogans for Labour

    Honest, fair and caring.
    How about:-

    1. “Honest and Competent”
    2. “Working for You”
    Or
    3. “On Your Side”

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    Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    250 seats Keir
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    YokesYokes Posts: 1,203
    edited August 2020
    Speaking of hacking, i got a delightfully suspect email a few months or so back to the email address that I registered for this site that indicated some of the letters of the password I then used for logging into this site. Certainly the impression was that the password had been compromised.

    As usual claims were made that it had recorded footage of me on a webcam that would get sent to everyone on the planet. Unfortunately, I use a desktop for convenience reasons with no such camera on it.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,618
    Have to say it's at times like these I think it's time to say "fuck it, old people stay in doors, everyone else get on with life". We can't continue living this half life indefinitely to save the lives of people who are about to die.
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    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Yokes said:

    Its dead simple : Keir Starmer: Trust me, I'm a lawyer

    Conservative majority sorted.

    I think Lawyers are trusted more than journalists, but it is rather like assessing precedence between a louse and a flea.
    Attlee, Thatcher and Blair were all lawyers
    Thatcher was a scientist.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,793
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Yokes said:

    Its dead simple : Keir Starmer: Trust me, I'm a lawyer

    Conservative majority sorted.

    I think Lawyers are trusted more than journalists, but it is rather like assessing precedence between a louse and a flea.
    Attlee, Thatcher and Blair were all lawyers
    Sure, lawyers are about 40% of MPs, but polls do not lie, journalists are amongst the worst for public confidence. Substantially below Trade Union Officials, Civil Servants or Judges for example:




    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    Three word slogans for Labour

    Honest, fair and caring.
    How about:-

    1. “Honest and Competent”
    2. “Working for You”
    Or
    3. “On Your Side”

    Yes, I think "On your side" works well. That was where Corbynism fell down, but also where the Tories will too. Things like the results fiasco show the true nature of the beast.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,131

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Yokes said:

    Its dead simple : Keir Starmer: Trust me, I'm a lawyer

    Conservative majority sorted.

    I think Lawyers are trusted more than journalists, but it is rather like assessing precedence between a louse and a flea.
    Attlee, Thatcher and Blair were all lawyers
    Thatcher was a scientist.
    She was originally then switched to become a tax lawyer
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    YokesYokes Posts: 1,203
    'On Your Side'

    Yes lets share the strapline of Lloyds Bank.
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,995
    Britain Deserves Better?
    Not sure we do, but hey ho. We like to delude ourselves...
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    Yokes said:

    'On Your Side'

    Yes lets share the strapline of Lloyds Bank.

    Bankers have a better reputation than the Labour Party so why not?
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,995
    Was Blair interesting? He seemed very much an identikit politician.
    Far less interesting than Thatcher, Major, Kinnock or Hague. Much less than Micheal Foot or Tony Benn.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,222
    Yokes said:

    'On Your Side'

    Yes lets share the strapline of Lloyds Bank.

    I wasn’t aware that was their strap line.

    But that sentiment should be a key part - if not the key part - of Labour’s pitch.

    Because the Tories certainly are not, as this cock up and them shovelling roles and contracts at their mates show.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,988
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Yokes said:

    Its dead simple : Keir Starmer: Trust me, I'm a lawyer

    Conservative majority sorted.

    I think Lawyers are trusted more than journalists, but it is rather like assessing precedence between a louse and a flea.
    Attlee, Thatcher and Blair were all lawyers
    Sure, lawyers are about 40% of MPs, but polls do not lie, journalists are amongst the worst for public confidence. Substantially below Trade Union Officials, Civil Servants or Judges for example:




    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    Three word slogans for Labour

    Honest, fair and caring.
    How about:-

    1. “Honest and Competent”
    2. “Working for You”
    Or
    3. “On Your Side”

    Yes, I think "On your side" works well. That was where Corbynism fell down, but also where the Tories will too. Things like the results fiasco show the true nature of the beast.
    “On your side” is a bit much for someone who tried his darnedest to stop the referendum result being implemented to use to appeal to Brexit voters
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,222
    dixiedean said:

    Britain Deserves Better?
    Not sure we do, but hey ho. We like to delude ourselves...

    “You Deserve Better”
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    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Yokes said:

    Its dead simple : Keir Starmer: Trust me, I'm a lawyer

    Conservative majority sorted.

    I think Lawyers are trusted more than journalists, but it is rather like assessing precedence between a louse and a flea.
    Attlee, Thatcher and Blair were all lawyers
    Sure, lawyers are about 40% of MPs, but polls do not lie, journalists are amongst the worst for public confidence. Substantially below Trade Union Officials, Civil Servants or Judges for example: [snip]
    Do the public think of Johnson as a journalist?

    I suspect people think of Boris as Boris.
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    For the many not the few to be fair, I thought was a decent slogan. They shouldn't use it again but it was good, I think.

    2019 was a travesty, people before privilege WTF was that?
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    Perhaps, Labour: there with you
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    Labour: on your side
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    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Yokes said:

    Its dead simple : Keir Starmer: Trust me, I'm a lawyer

    Conservative majority sorted.

    I think Lawyers are trusted more than journalists, but it is rather like assessing precedence between a louse and a flea.
    Attlee, Thatcher and Blair were all lawyers
    Thatcher was a scientist.
    She was originally then switched to become a tax lawyer
    Her twins were born soon after she qualified, and then she entered Parliament.
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    For the many not the few to be fair, I thought was a decent slogan. They shouldn't use it again but it was good, I think.

    2019 was a travesty, people before privilege WTF was that?

    The problem with that slogan is it was too close to the truth under Corbyn: For the many, not the Jew.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,131
    dixiedean said:

    Was Blair interesting? He seemed very much an identikit politician.
    Far less interesting than Thatcher, Major, Kinnock or Hague. Much less than Micheal Foot or Tony Benn.

    He had charisma though which is normally key to winning general elections
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited August 2020
    ...
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    MaxPB said:

    Have to say it's at times like these I think it's time to say "fuck it, old people stay in doors, everyone else get on with life". We can't continue living this half life indefinitely to save the lives of people who are about to die.

    There's a lot of truth in that, except the average death age keeps dropping.

    Avē Imperātor, moritūrī tē salūtant - to quote Suetonius
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    YokesYokes Posts: 1,203
    I think we are failing to appeal to people's desire for a quiet life and to have stuff done for them.

    Maybe this would work:

    'Labour. We will tell you how to think'
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    I am working on some Keir slogans.

    image
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    YokesYokes Posts: 1,203
    Tim_B said:

    MaxPB said:

    Have to say it's at times like these I think it's time to say "fuck it, old people stay in doors, everyone else get on with life". We can't continue living this half life indefinitely to save the lives of people who are about to die.

    There's a lot of truth in that, except the average death age keeps dropping.

    Avē Imperātor, moritūrī tē salūtant - to quote Suetonius
    Why though, is it because older people are acting more prudently than the young or is it just that quite a lot of oldies got hit early so the averages will fall?
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,907
    Latest Betfair odds give Trump a 41% chance of winning the election.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,988
    edited August 2020

    Labour: on your side

    Starmer: I know I’m not as funny or good looking as him, and you fancy him and don’t fancy me, but I’m reliable
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    isam said:

    Labour: on your side

    Starmer: I know I’m not as funny or good looking as him, and you fancy him and don’t fancy me, but I’m reliable
    Come on, Starmer vs Johnson? Starmer is about a million times better looking than Johnson.
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    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1295429503595024386

    "Boris Johnson's failure to lead is holding Britain back". Simple.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,988

    isam said:

    Labour: on your side

    Starmer: I know I’m not as funny or good looking as him, and you fancy him and don’t fancy me, but I’m reliable
    Come on, Starmer vs Johnson? Starmer is about a million times better looking than Johnson.
    Who’s pulled more birds?
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    isam said:

    isam said:

    Labour: on your side

    Starmer: I know I’m not as funny or good looking as him, and you fancy him and don’t fancy me, but I’m reliable
    Come on, Starmer vs Johnson? Starmer is about a million times better looking than Johnson.
    Who’s pulled more birds?
    Who's got more unknown children?
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    And imagine Johnson pulling, yuck
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,028
    Can somebody more adept at these things than I photoshop "North Norfolk Digital" on to that mug.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986
    Andy_JS said:

    Latest Betfair odds give Trump a 41% chance of winning the election.

    Objectively too high
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    At some point, these continuous cock ups have got to hurt the Tory lead, even if Labour does nothing. The Tories must surely lose points. Am I mad?

    If there was an alternative government-in-waiting with alternative ideas then that might make it tougher for the government.
    How would it be tougher? There isn't going to be a GE for nearly four years, nothing Labour can say now will change that.
    Labour were a creditable government in waiting for years before 1997.

    Starmer so far seems to think that being not-Corbyn is enough and then he can coast to victory. He needs to start saying something other than tut-tutting if he wants to be taken seriously.
    This is exactly what governments start to say when they start to lose it. Bless.
    This government is fantastic in my humble opinion.

    That they recognise their mistakes swiftly and turn them around within a few days is good not bad.
    I'm all for not criticising people overmuch for u-turning, we need u-turns, and so it depends how obvious a mess there was and how obvious the solution to avoid the need for a u-turn (which cannot be that obvious if all the other nations seemed to cock up as well, independently), but also so long as a u-turn from the other side is treated with the same attitude.
    Has Philip ever said Labour were good for doing a U-turn?
    I don't know, you'd have to ask him. All I know is u-turns always get criticised, as does being 'stubborn' and not u-turning. Then when it happens there's criticism for it being too late, but if done quickly it shows weakness.

    It's a particular hypocritical element of our political discourse, which has hypocrises enough as it is, but is generally easily smoked out with the age old question: would I criticise this if my own side did it/the other side did it?

    I don't think many of us pass the test often enough.
    There is late, and there is too late. Changing the A level grades awarded after many universities have closed clearing is most certainly the latter. It just adds insult to injury for those who lost out.
    But its not closed. They've said that original offers should be restored.
    How's that going to work, then? I thought university place numbers had been capped?
    The caps been lifted.
    That's the cap that was put in place just two months ago in June to stop universities “taking a recruitment approach which would go against the interests of students and the sector as a whole” according to the Department of Education. So a recruitment approach that goes against the interests of students and the sector as a whole is OK now then, is it?
    The situations been changed with everyone getting the predicted grades now. There are more people getting the best grades than ever before - the cap does not make sense anymore.
    Best grades have never been easier to get than before 😂
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986
    MaxPB said:

    Walked past an outdoor rave/party in a square in Palermo, we decided to join for a bit. Really hoping we can get the clubs open ASAP as there is definitely something lacking from life at the moment and I think dancing in bars and clubs is part of it. It was the first time either myself of my wife have really just cut loose and had a proper dance since probably Xmas last year, we'd normally go to bars at least once every couple of weeks with friends and go to a nostalgia 90s night every couple of months as well. I've just realised how much I miss it and meeting friends there.

    Hmm, clubs look to be globally an absolute hotspot for transmission; definitely one to keep closed if you want the total risk budget low enough for schools.
    Enjoy the holiday !
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    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,637
    edited August 2020
    HYUFD said:
    Back in 1962, Edward M. Kennedy's first direct, personal experience as a candidate for office came when he ran for his brother's Massachusetts US Senate seat, which then held by JFK's old Harvard roommate Benjamin Smith. The roomie's job was to keep the seat warm until Teddy turned 30 and was thus eligible to serve in the Senate.

    In 1962, the main hurdle EMK had to surmount, was winning the Democratic primary, where his main opponent was Mass. Attorney General Edward "Eddy" McCormack, the nephew of John McCormack. who was elected Speaker of the US House earlier that year. The Kennedys & the McCormacks were both Boston political dynasties, and rivals within the Bay State Democratic Party.

    The climatic moment of the campaign took place during a debate between Teddy and Eddy, when the later memorably said that his young rival would NOT be on that stage if his name was NOT Kennedy. It was a BIG gamble for McCormack to raise this issue - and it backfired. And the rest, as they say, is history.

    BUT that was when JFK was President, and Camelot was young.

    Fast forward fifty-eight years to 2020, and the current primary battle between US Senator Ed Markey who is seeking reelection, and his young Democratic primary rival, Congressman Joseph Kennedy III, grandson of Robert Kennedy and great-grandson of PB's favorite US Ambassador to the Court of St James (but don't hold THAT against the lad!)

    One interesting feature of the 2020 race (as discussed at length in today's Monday NYT) is that Markey is attacking Joe Kennedy precisely because he IS a Kennedy. No doubt guided by polling, he is betting that Massachusetts voters are tired of the whole Hyannisport clan. Markey's line is that HE is the son of a milkman, while Joe Kennedy is the son of privilege - with Groton & Harvard taking the place of Eton & Oxford.

    Markey is leading the revolt of the shanty Irish against the lace-curtain Irish.

    This line of argument is NOT the only arrow in Markey's quiver; he is also focusing on policy and fact that he is to the left of Kennedy. But the message that it's time to drop the final curtain on Camelot on it's home turf is the most interesting part of this particular (and spectacular) donnybrook.

    PS - Hope you (HYUFD) and your spouse are STILL enjoying connubial bliss.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,907
    edited August 2020
    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    Walked past an outdoor rave/party in a square in Palermo, we decided to join for a bit. Really hoping we can get the clubs open ASAP as there is definitely something lacking from life at the moment and I think dancing in bars and clubs is part of it. It was the first time either myself of my wife have really just cut loose and had a proper dance since probably Xmas last year, we'd normally go to bars at least once every couple of weeks with friends and go to a nostalgia 90s night every couple of months as well. I've just realised how much I miss it and meeting friends there.

    Hmm, clubs look to be globally an absolute hotspot for transmission; definitely one to keep closed if you want the total risk budget low enough for schools.
    Enjoy the holiday !
    There's only so long that we can reasonably expect people not to do things like going to clubs and bars. Humanity has got through much worse things than Covid-19 in the past without ruining everything worthwhile about life. What disturbs me is the number of otherwise reasonable people who seem to honestly expect people to live like hermits for 18 months or 2 years.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,907
    edited August 2020
    Whoever designed the algorithm that reduced some grades from Bs to Us needs to be dismissed from their job because that clearly wasn't a reasonable change to make in any circumstances. You can understand a reduction of one or two grades, but not as much of a change as that.
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    Strikes me as demonstrating the cynicism at the top of the British political system,and the desperation at the bottom (or is it the other way around?) when the Tory Party selects and British voters elect a Prime Minister who 99.46% of the populace would NOT trust with their money, malt or their maidservant.

    OF course yez were just copying/toadying to America's even more egregious example

    STOP DOING THAT!!!
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,130
    Trump wants the dumb people who went to crummy colleges to vote for him.

    https://twitter.com/peltzmadeline/status/1295437276265295872?s=21
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    CORRECTION - Joe Kennedy III did NOT attend Groton or Harvard, instead he is graduate of Buckingham Browne & Nichols School (Cambridge Mass) and Stanford University (Palo Alto Cali)

    BTW, yours truly is a fan of young Joe. Why? Because he is a work horse NOT a show pony in his professional career in general, and his service in US House in particular.
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    This issue won't be settled until the PM sacks Sir Keir Starmer as his Education Secretary.
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    There seems to be some puzzlement as to why the Tories still have a lead and I don't know why. For all the chaos and stupidity of their handling of the Rona we have the chaos and stupidity of the Rona itself. People are willing to give them the benefit of the doubt over what is clearly global and complex and difficult. That support won't go on forever and there are plenty of signs of it weakening. Like most of these phases the headline support is being undermined and will eventually collapse. The shambolic and catastrophic attempt to send kids back to school may be the weight that finally makes their roof fall in.

    If it doesn't it's because the other reason is Brexit. People may have largely forgotten what Brexit was about but they remember that they want it and the Tories are going to give it to them. When it turns into a river of shit flowing through their house people will turn, until then Shagger and his assembly of the sacked can do largely what they like with impunity.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,002
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Pioneers, also possible people blame the EU. If we leave on poor terms/with no deal and things worsen, that may simply entrench an existing polarisation.
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    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Pioneers, also possible people blame the EU. If we leave on poor terms/with no deal and things worsen, that may simply entrench an existing polarisation.

    Perhaps. Leaving the EU is not the source of the river of shit about to flow through people's lives. Leaving the EEA and CU is. The referendum asked should we leave the EU. The government chose to apply that to things that are not the EU. A rapid increase in food prices and drop in availability and choice, the rapid closure of various major factories and all their downstream supply partners and service support businesses - will be hard to blame those on pernicious Europeans. At the very least people won't thank the government for the downgrading if their lives.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,792
    .
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Labour: on your side

    Starmer: I know I’m not as funny or good looking as him, and you fancy him and don’t fancy me, but I’m reliable
    Come on, Starmer vs Johnson? Starmer is about a million times better looking than Johnson.
    Who’s pulled more birds?
    That just makes him a slave to his dick.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,408
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    Imagine trying to run a presidential campaign with a leader as insipid and uncharismatic as Starmer. Boris and Cummings would relish it.

    Starmer would be one of the most boring PMs we have ever had but sometimes dull can win eg 1945, 1970 or 1992
    I don't think 1992 works.

    Major may have been boring, but when he got on his soapbox he still had more life to him than Kinnock did.
    He was good at street politics but Kinnock had more charisma overall, 1992 was the last general election the least charismatic candidate won a majority
    And the last where a candidate for PM was willing to debate the public in the open without any attempt at stage management at all.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,002
    Mr. Pioneers, the absence of a deal is the key factor and who gets the blame.

    The governments have been incompetent and foolish (we've had two elections during the negotiation period), yet it's also the case the EU offered us a Canada-style deal for years, up until the point the UK wanted it at which point it was withdrawn, which is a breathtaking act of duplicity.

    I suspect most with strong opinions will simply back whichever they feel is their side.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,408

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Yokes said:

    Its dead simple : Keir Starmer: Trust me, I'm a lawyer

    Conservative majority sorted.

    I think Lawyers are trusted more than journalists, but it is rather like assessing precedence between a louse and a flea.
    Attlee, Thatcher and Blair were all lawyers
    Sure, lawyers are about 40% of MPs, but polls do not lie, journalists are amongst the worst for public confidence. Substantially below Trade Union Officials, Civil Servants or Judges for example: [snip]
    Do the public think of Johnson as a journalist?

    I suspect people think of Boris as Boris.
    Elected as a clown, governing as a clown.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,408
    Yokes said:

    'On Your Side'

    Yes lets share the strapline of Lloyds Bank.

    Isn’t that ‘By your side’?
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,914
    Labour: Time for Leadership

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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,408
    Andy_JS said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    Walked past an outdoor rave/party in a square in Palermo, we decided to join for a bit. Really hoping we can get the clubs open ASAP as there is definitely something lacking from life at the moment and I think dancing in bars and clubs is part of it. It was the first time either myself of my wife have really just cut loose and had a proper dance since probably Xmas last year, we'd normally go to bars at least once every couple of weeks with friends and go to a nostalgia 90s night every couple of months as well. I've just realised how much I miss it and meeting friends there.

    Hmm, clubs look to be globally an absolute hotspot for transmission; definitely one to keep closed if you want the total risk budget low enough for schools.
    Enjoy the holiday !
    There's only so long that we can reasonably expect people not to do things like going to clubs and bars. Humanity has got through much worse things than Covid-19 in the past without ruining everything worthwhile about life. What disturbs me is the number of otherwise reasonable people who seem to honestly expect people to live like hermits for 18 months or 2 years.
    Hermits want to impose their lifestyle choices just like everyone else shocker.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,047

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Pioneers, also possible people blame the EU. If we leave on poor terms/with no deal and things worsen, that may simply entrench an existing polarisation.

    Perhaps. Leaving the EU is not the source of the river of shit about to flow through people's lives. Leaving the EEA and CU is. The referendum asked should we leave the EU. The government chose to apply that to things that are not the EU. A rapid increase in food prices and drop in availability and choice, the rapid closure of various major factories and all their downstream supply partners and service support businesses - will be hard to blame those on pernicious Europeans. At the very least people won't thank the government for the downgrading if their lives.
    I suspect that this sequence of posts is one of the best summaries of the UK public's opinion that we have had for some time.

    And Good Morning everyone. Looks a bit drier round here today.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,408
    Meanwhile a dog walker in California as come down with the plague. Actual plague, as in bubonic.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,002
    Mr. B2, as a massive introvert I disagree.

    Ironically, a few weeks before it came to the UK I recall posting the difference between extroverts and introverts is that extroverts try and nag introverts into doing the things they like, whereas introverts never pester extroverts to spend time alone.

    I can sympathise with outgoing sorts forced to be more isolated, on that basis.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,002
    Betting Post

    F1: backed Bottas to win in Belgium, each way at 5.25 (boost, Ladbrokes). Apart from tyre woe, it should be straightforward.
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    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,244
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    Imagine trying to run a presidential campaign with a leader as insipid and uncharismatic as Starmer. Boris and Cummings would relish it.

    Starmer would be one of the most boring PMs we have ever had but sometimes dull can win eg 1945, 1970 or 1992
    I don't think 1992 works.

    Major may have been boring, but when he got on his soapbox he still had more life to him than Kinnock did.
    He was good at street politics but Kinnock had more charisma overall, 1992 was the last general election the least charismatic candidate won a majority
    And the last where a candidate for PM was willing to debate the public in the open without any attempt at stage management at all.
    Somewhere along the way the media decided that it reflects poorly on the politician when a member of the public speaks to them discourteously.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,534

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Pioneers, also possible people blame the EU. If we leave on poor terms/with no deal and things worsen, that may simply entrench an existing polarisation.

    Perhaps. Leaving the EU is not the source of the river of shit about to flow through people's lives. Leaving the EEA and CU is. The referendum asked should we leave the EU. The government chose to apply that to things that are not the EU. A rapid increase in food prices and drop in availability and choice, the rapid closure of various major factories and all their downstream supply partners and service support businesses - will be hard to blame those on pernicious Europeans. At the very least people won't thank the government for the downgrading if their lives.
    I suspect that this sequence of posts is one of the best summaries of the UK public's opinion that we have had for some time.

    And Good Morning everyone. Looks a bit drier round here today.
    It's a summary of (some) ex-Remainer opinion - why would you think it's representative of all UK public opinion?
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,534

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Pioneers, also possible people blame the EU. If we leave on poor terms/with no deal and things worsen, that may simply entrench an existing polarisation.

    Perhaps. Leaving the EU is not the source of the river of shit about to flow through people's lives. Leaving the EEA and CU is. The referendum asked should we leave the EU. The government chose to apply that to things that are not the EU. A rapid increase in food prices and drop in availability and choice, the rapid closure of various major factories and all their downstream supply partners and service support businesses - will be hard to blame those on pernicious Europeans. At the very least people won't thank the government for the downgrading if their lives.
    And, if none of this happens? What then?

    Assuming we get a FTA deal ratified this year (and I think it's overwhelmingly in the interests of both the UK and EU to compromise on the relatively minor o/s issues of state aid and fish) then I'd expect some minor frictions on exports and imports (as expected) but no economic apocalypse.

    In fact, I'd expect the pound to appreciate and the FTSE250 to increase, plus growth to return - businesses will know where they stand.

    The biggest things that will frustrate people (and make headlines) will be pet passports, health cover and roaming.

    That's all I'm expecting.
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    IanB2 said:

    Meanwhile a dog walker in California as come down with the plague. Actual plague, as in bubonic.

    Bubonic plague isn't actually all that uncommon - there are normally a handful of cases every year in the West of the USA, and quite a few more in other parts of the world.

    There isn't person to person transmission, though, plus improvements in housing and general hygiene standards mean people don't come into contact with sick and dead rodents as much as they used to.
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    https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1295691362378092544

    I know it's Stats for Propaganda but couldn't find anyone else with the stats in one Tweet
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