William Hague compares A-level to the poll tax: This pattern of a flawed starting assumption and perfectly rational decisions that flowed from it has been once again plain to see in the debacle of the A-level results. ... [huge snippage] In a striking parallel to the poll tax, the overall outcome was broadly defensible but the individual impact was not. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/17/a-levels-debacle-threatened-another-poll-tax-moment-tories/
Agreed 100%
Thankfully the government saw sense and swiftly ended this rather than digging their heels in like Thatcher did with the poll tax.
'Swift' would have been a week ago. They clearly tried to brazen it out and failed miserably - as we all knew they would.
Problem is the Welsh minister has not resigned either
I will say, what gives me a small confidence that in the longer term that the Tories might be in trouble is I really trust none of them to convincingly implement or deliver their agenda.
One thing that really does strike me is what a piss-poor judge of people Johnson is. This is really the most feeble cabinet in living memory, full of quarterwits, but then we see who he thinks deserves a seat in the upper house, and now a critical role controlling our response to the pandemic. As long as they kiss his arse they are in.
Speaking of which, how many of Trump's appointees has he subsequently sacked due to their 'incompetence', and when is a journo going to ask Trump why he is so shit at selecting competent people?
William Hague compares A-level to the poll tax: This pattern of a flawed starting assumption and perfectly rational decisions that flowed from it has been once again plain to see in the debacle of the A-level results. ... [huge snippage] In a striking parallel to the poll tax, the overall outcome was broadly defensible but the individual impact was not. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/17/a-levels-debacle-threatened-another-poll-tax-moment-tories/
Agreed 100%
Thankfully the government saw sense and swiftly ended this rather than digging their heels in like Thatcher did with the poll tax.
'Swift' would have been a week ago. They clearly tried to brazen it out and failed miserably - as we all knew they would.
Problem is the Welsh minister has not resigned either
Nor the Scottish, nor the NI.
Funny that. Almost as if this isn't a resigning matter.
He's doing to take down the Union and the Conservative Party with him.
Who should it take down the Union when the Scottish government made exactly the same errors and Swinney is also facing calls to resign?
More Tory voters also think Williamson should stay than go
This member does not, he needs to go
He should but not over this. He's done the right thing (in u-turning) today - that shouldn't see him go. He should go as he should never have been there in the first place not because of this fiasco.
One thing that really does strike me is what a piss-poor judge of people Johnson is. This is really the most feeble cabinet in living memory, full of quarterwits, but then we see who he thinks deserves a seat in the upper house, and now a critical role controlling our response to the pandemic. As long as they kiss his arse they are in.
His goal may be to pick people who make him look good. It's a tough bar to clear but I think he is giving it a good go.
I will say, what gives me a small confidence that in the longer term that the Tories might be in trouble is I really trust none of them to convincingly implement or deliver their agenda.
He's doing to take down the Union and the Conservative Party with him.
Who should it take down the Union when the Scottish government made exactly the same errors and Swinney is also facing calls to resign?
More Tory voters also think Williamson should stay than go
It must be heartbreaking to know that this government, which you invested so much time to promote, has turned out to be a complete shambles. They let you down.
At some point, these continuous cock ups have got to hurt the Tory lead, even if Labour does nothing. The Tories must surely lose points. Am I mad?
I think these things take a long time to start having an effect, but then it gets set in and it becomes very hard to to recover position. Covid-19 confuses matters since even well run places have done plenty poorly in some things, so untangling the unmitigable problems from avoidable errors is trickier.
The man refused to 'resign' in the normal manner in the last government and actually had to be sacked, which is actually pretty rare (that it is accepted as a sacking that is).
I kind of appreciate such stubbornness, as it means there's no question it is down to the Leader to drop them, no expectation of people distracting with talk of honourable resignation.
At some point, these continuous cock ups have got to hurt the Tory lead, even if Labour does nothing. The Tories must surely lose points. Am I mad?
If there was an alternative government-in-waiting with alternative ideas then that might make it tougher for the government.
How would it be tougher? There isn't going to be a GE for nearly four years, nothing Labour can say now will change that.
Labour were a creditable government in waiting for years before 1997.
Starmer so far seems to think that being not-Corbyn is enough and then he can coast to victory. He needs to start saying something other than tut-tutting if he wants to be taken seriously.
He's doing to take down the Union and the Conservative Party with him.
Who should it take down the Union when the Scottish government made exactly the same errors and Swinney is also facing calls to resign?
Because life and politics is not fair, and even if the exact same errors are committed politicians and parties face different consequences. Boris knows this all too well, it has aided him personally on many occasions.
At some point, these continuous cock ups have got to hurt the Tory lead, even if Labour does nothing. The Tories must surely lose points. Am I mad?
If there was an alternative government-in-waiting with alternative ideas then that might make it tougher for the government.
How would it be tougher? There isn't going to be a GE for nearly four years, nothing Labour can say now will change that.
Labour were a creditable government in waiting for years before 1997.
Starmer so far seems to think that being not-Corbyn is enough and then he can coast to victory. He needs to start saying something other than tut-tutting if he wants to be taken seriously.
This is exactly what governments start to say when they start to lose it. Bless.
At some point, these continuous cock ups have got to hurt the Tory lead, even if Labour does nothing. The Tories must surely lose points. Am I mad?
If there was an alternative government-in-waiting with alternative ideas then that might make it tougher for the government.
How would it be tougher? There isn't going to be a GE for nearly four years, nothing Labour can say now will change that.
Labour were a creditable government in waiting for years before 1997.
Starmer so far seems to think that being not-Corbyn is enough and then he can coast to victory. He needs to start saying something other than tut-tutting if he wants to be taken seriously.
This is exactly what governments start to say when they start to lose it. Bless.
This government is fantastic in my humble opinion.
That they recognise their mistakes swiftly and turn them around within a few days is good not bad.
At some point, these continuous cock ups have got to hurt the Tory lead, even if Labour does nothing. The Tories must surely lose points. Am I mad?
If there was an alternative government-in-waiting with alternative ideas then that might make it tougher for the government.
How would it be tougher? There isn't going to be a GE for nearly four years, nothing Labour can say now will change that.
Labour were a creditable government in waiting for years before 1997.
Starmer so far seems to think that being not-Corbyn is enough and then he can coast to victory. He needs to start saying something other than tut-tutting if he wants to be taken seriously.
This is exactly what governments start to say when they start to lose it. Bless.
This government is fantastic in my humble opinion.
That they recognise their mistakes swiftly and turn them around within a few days is good not bad.
He's doing to take down the Union and the Conservative Party with him.
Who should it take down the Union when the Scottish government made exactly the same errors and Swinney is also facing calls to resign?
More Tory voters also think Williamson should stay than go
It must be heartbreaking to know that this government, which you invested so much time to promote, has turned out to be a complete shambles. They let you down.
They haven't, they beat Corbyn and delivered Brexit which was what they were mainly elected to do
I know that's a fun meme given things turned out pretty chaotic, but whenever I see it I feel like the poster is unintentionally highlighting just how successful a point it was, and thus the importance of hammering home a message. It worked.
Anyone who saw President Big Hat's performance on factory visits today will fancy that his time living in Minsk really is short.
The focus outside of the country is now EU/Russian diplomacy. The EU is talking like it might at least try to put the kabosh on any attempt by Russia to physically intervene via the threat of diplomatic & economic retaliation.
Warning Russia off through economic damage can have an impact, Putin has the mind of a paper pushing risk assessor and isn't half as dynamic as many have painted him. There are plenty of countries within the EU who would to wield some fairly strong measures but he EU has form in being piss poor in using its diplomatic weight. Its main exponent of do nothing, Angela Merkel, has reportedly already had a conversation with Putin.
About what?
It perfectly viable to make some soothing noises towards Russia whilst warning it off getting physically involved via overt means or subversion. EU types will have already been talking to the opposition leaders in exile and you can safely assume its not just about expressing some warm words. They will be trying to look at how Russia can be reassured by the opposition. Potential key areas include a re-emphasis on Belarus neutrality and also ensuring a continued unobstructed route between Kaliningrad and the rest of Russia.
He's doing to take down the Union and the Conservative Party with him.
Who should it take down the Union when the Scottish government made exactly the same errors and Swinney is also facing calls to resign?
Because life and politics is not fair, and even if the exact same errors are committed politicians and parties face different consequences. Boris knows this all too well, it has aided him personally on many occasions.
As the polling shows it is mainly opposition voters who think Williamson should go, Tory voters will think Swinney should go, so nothing changed
At some point, these continuous cock ups have got to hurt the Tory lead, even if Labour does nothing. The Tories must surely lose points. Am I mad?
If there was an alternative government-in-waiting with alternative ideas then that might make it tougher for the government.
How would it be tougher? There isn't going to be a GE for nearly four years, nothing Labour can say now will change that.
Labour were a creditable government in waiting for years before 1997.
Starmer so far seems to think that being not-Corbyn is enough and then he can coast to victory. He needs to start saying something other than tut-tutting if he wants to be taken seriously.
This is exactly what governments start to say when they start to lose it. Bless.
This government is fantastic in my humble opinion.
That they recognise their mistakes swiftly and turn them around within a few days is good not bad.
Sometimes, you're a parody of yourself. Keep going Philip, I am crying
At some point, these continuous cock ups have got to hurt the Tory lead, even if Labour does nothing. The Tories must surely lose points. Am I mad?
If there was an alternative government-in-waiting with alternative ideas then that might make it tougher for the government.
How would it be tougher? There isn't going to be a GE for nearly four years, nothing Labour can say now will change that.
Labour were a creditable government in waiting for years before 1997.
Starmer so far seems to think that being not-Corbyn is enough and then he can coast to victory. He needs to start saying something other than tut-tutting if he wants to be taken seriously.
This is exactly what governments start to say when they start to lose it. Bless.
This government is fantastic in my humble opinion.
That they recognise their mistakes swiftly and turn them around within a few days is good not bad.
I'm all for not criticising people overmuch for u-turning, we need u-turns, and so it depends how obvious a mess there was and how obvious the solution to avoid the need for a u-turn (which cannot be that obvious if all the other nations seemed to cock up as well, independently), but also so long as a u-turn from the other side is treated with the same attitude.
At some point, these continuous cock ups have got to hurt the Tory lead, even if Labour does nothing. The Tories must surely lose points. Am I mad?
If there was an alternative government-in-waiting with alternative ideas then that might make it tougher for the government.
How would it be tougher? There isn't going to be a GE for nearly four years, nothing Labour can say now will change that.
Labour were a creditable government in waiting for years before 1997.
Starmer so far seems to think that being not-Corbyn is enough and then he can coast to victory. He needs to start saying something other than tut-tutting if he wants to be taken seriously.
This is exactly what governments start to say when they start to lose it. Bless.
This government is fantastic in my humble opinion.
That they recognise their mistakes swiftly and turn them around within a few days is good not bad.
Sometimes, you're a parody of yourself. Keep going Philip, I am crying
I said this morning a u-turn would be the right thing to do and if the government u-turned I would praise them.
Anyone who saw President Big Hat's performance on factory visits today will fancy that his time living in Minsk really is short.
The focus outside of the country is now EU/Russian diplomacy. The EU is talking like it might at least try to put the kabosh on any attempt by Russia to physically intervene via the threat of diplomatic & economic retaliation.
Warning Russia off through economic damage can have an impact, Putin has the mind of a paper pushing risk assessor and isn't half as dynamic as many have painted him. There are plenty of countries within the EU who would to wield some fairly strong measures but he EU has form in being piss poor in using its diplomatic weight. Its main exponent of do nothing, Angela Merkel, has reportedly already had a conversation with Putin.
About what?
It perfectly viable to make some soothing noises towards Russia whilst warning it off getting physically involved via overt means or subversion. EU types will have already been talking to the opposition leaders in exile and you can safely assume its not just about expressing some warm words. They will be trying to look at how Russia can be reassured by the opposition. Potential key areas include a re-emphasis on Belarus neutrality and also ensuring a continued unobstructed route between Kaliningrad and the rest of Russia.
Belarus is perfectly safe, so long as it agreed to forever be a buffer state?
At some point, these continuous cock ups have got to hurt the Tory lead, even if Labour does nothing. The Tories must surely lose points. Am I mad?
If there was an alternative government-in-waiting with alternative ideas then that might make it tougher for the government.
How would it be tougher? There isn't going to be a GE for nearly four years, nothing Labour can say now will change that.
Labour were a creditable government in waiting for years before 1997.
Starmer so far seems to think that being not-Corbyn is enough and then he can coast to victory. He needs to start saying something other than tut-tutting if he wants to be taken seriously.
This is exactly what governments start to say when they start to lose it. Bless.
This government is fantastic in my humble opinion.
That they recognise their mistakes swiftly and turn them around within a few days is good not bad.
I'm all for not criticising people overmuch for u-turning, we need u-turns, and so it depends how obvious a mess there was and how obvious the solution to avoid the need for a u-turn (which cannot be that obvious if all the other nations seemed to cock up as well, independently), but also so long as a u-turn from the other side is treated with the same attitude.
Has Philip ever said Labour were good for doing a U-turn?
He's doing to take down the Union and the Conservative Party with him.
Who should it take down the Union when the Scottish government made exactly the same errors and Swinney is also facing calls to resign?
More Tory voters also think Williamson should stay than go
It must be heartbreaking to know that this government, which you invested so much time to promote, has turned out to be a complete shambles. They let you down.
They haven't, they beat Corbyn and delivered Brexit which was what they were mainly elected to do
He's doing to take down the Union and the Conservative Party with him.
Who should it take down the Union when the Scottish government made exactly the same errors and Swinney is also facing calls to resign?
More Tory voters also think Williamson should stay than go
This member does not, he needs to go
He should but not over this. He's done the right thing (in u-turning) today - that shouldn't see him go. He should go as he should never have been there in the first place not because of this fiasco.
Why has it taken them over a week to u-turn Philip?
He's doing to take down the Union and the Conservative Party with him.
Who should it take down the Union when the Scottish government made exactly the same errors and Swinney is also facing calls to resign?
More Tory voters also think Williamson should stay than go
It must be heartbreaking to know that this government, which you invested so much time to promote, has turned out to be a complete shambles. They let you down.
They haven't, they beat Corbyn and delivered Brexit which was what they were mainly elected to do
He's doing to take down the Union and the Conservative Party with him.
Who should it take down the Union when the Scottish government made exactly the same errors and Swinney is also facing calls to resign?
More Tory voters also think Williamson should stay than go
It must be heartbreaking to know that this government, which you invested so much time to promote, has turned out to be a complete shambles. They let you down.
They haven't, they beat Corbyn and delivered Brexit which was what they were mainly elected to do
They were elected to beat Corbyn?
Yes had they not been elected Corbyn would now be PM
At some point, these continuous cock ups have got to hurt the Tory lead, even if Labour does nothing. The Tories must surely lose points. Am I mad?
If there was an alternative government-in-waiting with alternative ideas then that might make it tougher for the government.
How would it be tougher? There isn't going to be a GE for nearly four years, nothing Labour can say now will change that.
Labour were a creditable government in waiting for years before 1997.
Starmer so far seems to think that being not-Corbyn is enough and then he can coast to victory. He needs to start saying something other than tut-tutting if he wants to be taken seriously.
This is exactly what governments start to say when they start to lose it. Bless.
This government is fantastic in my humble opinion.
That they recognise their mistakes swiftly and turn them around within a few days is good not bad.
I'm all for not criticising people overmuch for u-turning, we need u-turns, and so it depends how obvious a mess there was and how obvious the solution to avoid the need for a u-turn (which cannot be that obvious if all the other nations seemed to cock up as well, independently), but also so long as a u-turn from the other side is treated with the same attitude.
Has Philip ever said Labour were good for doing a U-turn?
I've never bought into the idea of attacking people for u-turns, if a u-turn is the right thing to do it should be done. When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?
I praised Starmer for apologising to the antisemitism whistle blowers and settling the libel case, does that count as a u-turn?
William Hague compares A-level to the poll tax: This pattern of a flawed starting assumption and perfectly rational decisions that flowed from it has been once again plain to see in the debacle of the A-level results. ... [huge snippage] In a striking parallel to the poll tax, the overall outcome was broadly defensible but the individual impact was not. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/17/a-levels-debacle-threatened-another-poll-tax-moment-tories/
Agreed 100%
Thankfully the government saw sense and swiftly ended this rather than digging their heels in like Thatcher did with the poll tax.
'Swift' would have been a week ago. They clearly tried to brazen it out and failed miserably - as we all knew they would.
Yup. The grades given to the son of one of my partner's colleagues were far below what he was expecting and too low for him to go to his chosen university. By the time his grades were upped, clearing had already closed and he was stuffed. Far from swift, the action came much too late. A lot of people are extremely pissed off about this fiasco.
At some point, these continuous cock ups have got to hurt the Tory lead, even if Labour does nothing. The Tories must surely lose points. Am I mad?
If there was an alternative government-in-waiting with alternative ideas then that might make it tougher for the government.
How would it be tougher? There isn't going to be a GE for nearly four years, nothing Labour can say now will change that.
Labour were a creditable government in waiting for years before 1997.
Starmer so far seems to think that being not-Corbyn is enough and then he can coast to victory. He needs to start saying something other than tut-tutting if he wants to be taken seriously.
This is exactly what governments start to say when they start to lose it. Bless.
This government is fantastic in my humble opinion.
That they recognise their mistakes swiftly and turn them around within a few days is good not bad.
I'm all for not criticising people overmuch for u-turning, we need u-turns, and so it depends how obvious a mess there was and how obvious the solution to avoid the need for a u-turn (which cannot be that obvious if all the other nations seemed to cock up as well, independently), but also so long as a u-turn from the other side is treated with the same attitude.
Has Philip ever said Labour were good for doing a U-turn?
I don't know, you'd have to ask him. All I know is u-turns always get criticised, as does being 'stubborn' and not u-turning. Then when it happens there's criticism for it being too late, but if done quickly it shows weakness.
It's a particular hypocritical element of our political discourse, which has hypocrises enough as it is, but is generally easily smoked out with the age old question: would I criticise this if my own side did it/the other side did it?
I don't think many of us pass the test often enough.
At some point, these continuous cock ups have got to hurt the Tory lead, even if Labour does nothing. The Tories must surely lose points. Am I mad?
If there was an alternative government-in-waiting with alternative ideas then that might make it tougher for the government.
How would it be tougher? There isn't going to be a GE for nearly four years, nothing Labour can say now will change that.
Labour were a creditable government in waiting for years before 1997.
Starmer so far seems to think that being not-Corbyn is enough and then he can coast to victory. He needs to start saying something other than tut-tutting if he wants to be taken seriously.
This is exactly what governments start to say when they start to lose it. Bless.
This government is fantastic in my humble opinion.
That they recognise their mistakes swiftly and turn them around within a few days is good not bad.
I'm all for not criticising people overmuch for u-turning, we need u-turns, and so it depends how obvious a mess there was and how obvious the solution to avoid the need for a u-turn (which cannot be that obvious if all the other nations seemed to cock up as well, independently), but also so long as a u-turn from the other side is treated with the same attitude.
Has Philip ever said Labour were good for doing a U-turn?
I don't know, you'd have to ask him. All I know is u-turns always get criticised, as does being 'stubborn' and not u-turning. Then when it happens there's criticism for it being too late, but if done quickly it shows weakness.
It's a particular hypocritical element of our political discourse, which has hypocrises enough as it is, but is generally easily smoked out with the age old question: would I criticise this if my own side did it/the other side did it?
I don't think many of us pass the test often enough.
I have U-turned on Corbyn. I get attacked all the time for it
He's doing to take down the Union and the Conservative Party with him.
Who should it take down the Union when the Scottish government made exactly the same errors and Swinney is also facing calls to resign?
More Tory voters also think Williamson should stay than go
This member does not, he needs to go
He should but not over this. He's done the right thing (in u-turning) today - that shouldn't see him go. He should go as he should never have been there in the first place not because of this fiasco.
Why has it taken them over a week to u-turn Philip?
It hasn't.
They did a u-turn on Wednesday introducing the triple-lock idea as a last minute fudged solution to try and save the grades. It was OK in theory but too little, too late, it didn't answer the problems that became apparent over this weekend.
At some point, these continuous cock ups have got to hurt the Tory lead, even if Labour does nothing. The Tories must surely lose points. Am I mad?
If there was an alternative government-in-waiting with alternative ideas then that might make it tougher for the government.
How would it be tougher? There isn't going to be a GE for nearly four years, nothing Labour can say now will change that.
Labour were a creditable government in waiting for years before 1997.
Starmer so far seems to think that being not-Corbyn is enough and then he can coast to victory. He needs to start saying something other than tut-tutting if he wants to be taken seriously.
This is exactly what governments start to say when they start to lose it. Bless.
This government is fantastic in my humble opinion.
That they recognise their mistakes swiftly and turn them around within a few days is good not bad.
I'm all for not criticising people overmuch for u-turning, we need u-turns, and so it depends how obvious a mess there was and how obvious the solution to avoid the need for a u-turn (which cannot be that obvious if all the other nations seemed to cock up as well, independently), but also so long as a u-turn from the other side is treated with the same attitude.
Has Philip ever said Labour were good for doing a U-turn?
I don't know, you'd have to ask him. All I know is u-turns always get criticised, as does being 'stubborn' and not u-turning. Then when it happens there's criticism for it being too late, but if done quickly it shows weakness.
It's a particular hypocritical element of our political discourse, which has hypocrises enough as it is, but is generally easily smoked out with the age old question: would I criticise this if my own side did it/the other side did it?
I don't think many of us pass the test often enough.
I have U-turned on Corbyn. I get attacked all the time for it
At some point, these continuous cock ups have got to hurt the Tory lead, even if Labour does nothing. The Tories must surely lose points. Am I mad?
If there was an alternative government-in-waiting with alternative ideas then that might make it tougher for the government.
How would it be tougher? There isn't going to be a GE for nearly four years, nothing Labour can say now will change that.
Labour were a creditable government in waiting for years before 1997.
Starmer so far seems to think that being not-Corbyn is enough and then he can coast to victory. He needs to start saying something other than tut-tutting if he wants to be taken seriously.
This is exactly what governments start to say when they start to lose it. Bless.
This government is fantastic in my humble opinion.
That they recognise their mistakes swiftly and turn them around within a few days is good not bad.
I'm all for not criticising people overmuch for u-turning, we need u-turns, and so it depends how obvious a mess there was and how obvious the solution to avoid the need for a u-turn (which cannot be that obvious if all the other nations seemed to cock up as well, independently), but also so long as a u-turn from the other side is treated with the same attitude.
Has Philip ever said Labour were good for doing a U-turn?
I don't know, you'd have to ask him. All I know is u-turns always get criticised, as does being 'stubborn' and not u-turning. Then when it happens there's criticism for it being too late, but if done quickly it shows weakness.
It's a particular hypocritical element of our political discourse, which has hypocrises enough as it is, but is generally easily smoked out with the age old question: would I criticise this if my own side did it/the other side did it?
I don't think many of us pass the test often enough.
And by making U-turns so politically toxic you reduce the chance of them actually happening except for the most egregious cases. If less of a song and dance was made about each one I suspect they'd happen far more often, potentially resulting in better governance overall.
I know that's a fun meme given things turned out pretty chaotic, but whenever I see it I feel like the poster is unintentionally highlighting just how successful a point it was, and thus the importance of hammering home a message. It worked.
Starmer should use a paraphrase of it against Boris.
At some point, these continuous cock ups have got to hurt the Tory lead, even if Labour does nothing. The Tories must surely lose points. Am I mad?
If there was an alternative government-in-waiting with alternative ideas then that might make it tougher for the government.
How would it be tougher? There isn't going to be a GE for nearly four years, nothing Labour can say now will change that.
Labour were a creditable government in waiting for years before 1997.
Starmer so far seems to think that being not-Corbyn is enough and then he can coast to victory. He needs to start saying something other than tut-tutting if he wants to be taken seriously.
This is exactly what governments start to say when they start to lose it. Bless.
This government is fantastic in my humble opinion.
That they recognise their mistakes swiftly and turn them around within a few days is good not bad.
I'm all for not criticising people overmuch for u-turning, we need u-turns, and so it depends how obvious a mess there was and how obvious the solution to avoid the need for a u-turn (which cannot be that obvious if all the other nations seemed to cock up as well, independently), but also so long as a u-turn from the other side is treated with the same attitude.
Has Philip ever said Labour were good for doing a U-turn?
I don't know, you'd have to ask him. All I know is u-turns always get criticised, as does being 'stubborn' and not u-turning. Then when it happens there's criticism for it being too late, but if done quickly it shows weakness.
It's a particular hypocritical element of our political discourse, which has hypocrises enough as it is, but is generally easily smoked out with the age old question: would I criticise this if my own side did it/the other side did it?
I don't think many of us pass the test often enough.
I have U-turned on Corbyn. I get attacked all the time for it
It may well be fair in some situations to regard a u-turn as insufficient, I wasn't suggesting you or anyone else has never u-turned, nor that a u-turn cannot potentially be criticised, but as a general point we don't do it enough, and we act like idiots when people do.
At some point, these continuous cock ups have got to hurt the Tory lead, even if Labour does nothing. The Tories must surely lose points. Am I mad?
If there was an alternative government-in-waiting with alternative ideas then that might make it tougher for the government.
How would it be tougher? There isn't going to be a GE for nearly four years, nothing Labour can say now will change that.
Labour were a creditable government in waiting for years before 1997.
Starmer so far seems to think that being not-Corbyn is enough and then he can coast to victory. He needs to start saying something other than tut-tutting if he wants to be taken seriously.
This is exactly what governments start to say when they start to lose it. Bless.
This government is fantastic in my humble opinion.
That they recognise their mistakes swiftly and turn them around within a few days is good not bad.
I'm all for not criticising people overmuch for u-turning, we need u-turns, and so it depends how obvious a mess there was and how obvious the solution to avoid the need for a u-turn (which cannot be that obvious if all the other nations seemed to cock up as well, independently), but also so long as a u-turn from the other side is treated with the same attitude.
Has Philip ever said Labour were good for doing a U-turn?
I don't know, you'd have to ask him. All I know is u-turns always get criticised, as does being 'stubborn' and not u-turning. Then when it happens there's criticism for it being too late, but if done quickly it shows weakness.
It's a particular hypocritical element of our political discourse, which has hypocrises enough as it is, but is generally easily smoked out with the age old question: would I criticise this if my own side did it/the other side did it?
I don't think many of us pass the test often enough.
There is late, and there is too late. Changing the A level grades awarded after many universities have closed clearing is most certainly the latter. It just adds insult to injury for those who lost out.
I know that's a fun meme given things turned out pretty chaotic, but whenever I see it I feel like the poster is unintentionally highlighting just how successful a point it was, and thus the importance of hammering home a message. It worked.
Starmer should use a paraphrase of it against Boris.
Calmer government? Starmer government.
Perhaps not. Slant rhymes probably not good for slogans.
He's doing to take down the Union and the Conservative Party with him.
Who should it take down the Union when the Scottish government made exactly the same errors and Swinney is also facing calls to resign?
More Tory voters also think Williamson should stay than go
This member does not, he needs to go
He should but not over this. He's done the right thing (in u-turning) today - that shouldn't see him go. He should go as he should never have been there in the first place not because of this fiasco.
Why has it taken them over a week to u-turn Philip?
Same question to Wales and Northern Ireland in fairness and it took Sturgeon a week to change originally
Mind you I want Williamson out because he is useless
At some point, these continuous cock ups have got to hurt the Tory lead, even if Labour does nothing. The Tories must surely lose points. Am I mad?
If there was an alternative government-in-waiting with alternative ideas then that might make it tougher for the government.
How would it be tougher? There isn't going to be a GE for nearly four years, nothing Labour can say now will change that.
Labour were a creditable government in waiting for years before 1997.
Starmer so far seems to think that being not-Corbyn is enough and then he can coast to victory. He needs to start saying something other than tut-tutting if he wants to be taken seriously.
This is exactly what governments start to say when they start to lose it. Bless.
This government is fantastic in my humble opinion.
That they recognise their mistakes swiftly and turn them around within a few days is good not bad.
I'm all for not criticising people overmuch for u-turning, we need u-turns, and so it depends how obvious a mess there was and how obvious the solution to avoid the need for a u-turn (which cannot be that obvious if all the other nations seemed to cock up as well, independently), but also so long as a u-turn from the other side is treated with the same attitude.
Has Philip ever said Labour were good for doing a U-turn?
I don't know, you'd have to ask him. All I know is u-turns always get criticised, as does being 'stubborn' and not u-turning. Then when it happens there's criticism for it being too late, but if done quickly it shows weakness.
It's a particular hypocritical element of our political discourse, which has hypocrises enough as it is, but is generally easily smoked out with the age old question: would I criticise this if my own side did it/the other side did it?
I don't think many of us pass the test often enough.
There is late, and there is too late. Changing the A level grades awarded after many universities have closed clearing is most certainly the latter. It just adds insult to injury for those who lost out.
But its not closed. They've said that original offers should be restored.
I know that's a fun meme given things turned out pretty chaotic, but whenever I see it I feel like the poster is unintentionally highlighting just how successful a point it was, and thus the importance of hammering home a message. It worked.
Starmer should use a paraphrase of it against Boris.
Calmer government? Starmer government.
Perhaps not. Slant rhymes probably not good for slogans.
No, just switching the names in Cameron’s quote (Boris for Miliband) would do. I’m already cringing at how bad the bunged up nasal delivery will be though. Scripted jokes in political arguments are so naff, best he tweets it.
At some point, these continuous cock ups have got to hurt the Tory lead, even if Labour does nothing. The Tories must surely lose points. Am I mad?
If there was an alternative government-in-waiting with alternative ideas then that might make it tougher for the government.
How would it be tougher? There isn't going to be a GE for nearly four years, nothing Labour can say now will change that.
Labour were a creditable government in waiting for years before 1997.
Starmer so far seems to think that being not-Corbyn is enough and then he can coast to victory. He needs to start saying something other than tut-tutting if he wants to be taken seriously.
This is exactly what governments start to say when they start to lose it. Bless.
This government is fantastic in my humble opinion.
That they recognise their mistakes swiftly and turn them around within a few days is good not bad.
I'm all for not criticising people overmuch for u-turning, we need u-turns, and so it depends how obvious a mess there was and how obvious the solution to avoid the need for a u-turn (which cannot be that obvious if all the other nations seemed to cock up as well, independently), but also so long as a u-turn from the other side is treated with the same attitude.
Has Philip ever said Labour were good for doing a U-turn?
I don't know, you'd have to ask him. All I know is u-turns always get criticised, as does being 'stubborn' and not u-turning. Then when it happens there's criticism for it being too late, but if done quickly it shows weakness.
It's a particular hypocritical element of our political discourse, which has hypocrises enough as it is, but is generally easily smoked out with the age old question: would I criticise this if my own side did it/the other side did it?
I don't think many of us pass the test often enough.
There is late, and there is too late. Changing the A level grades awarded after many universities have closed clearing is most certainly the latter. It just adds insult to injury for those who lost out.
But its not closed. They've said that original offers should be restored.
How's that going to work, then? I thought university place numbers had been capped?
He's doing to take down the Union and the Conservative Party with him.
Who should it take down the Union when the Scottish government made exactly the same errors and Swinney is also facing calls to resign?
More Tory voters also think Williamson should stay than go
This member does not, he needs to go
He should but not over this. He's done the right thing (in u-turning) today - that shouldn't see him go. He should go as he should never have been there in the first place not because of this fiasco.
Why has it taken them over a week to u-turn Philip?
Same question to Wales and Northern Ireland in fairness and it took Sturgeon a week to change originally
Mind you I want Williamson out because he is useless
Having seen Scotland resist and then cave in, HMG spent a week doing the same but with added stupidities: first 'triple-lock', then 'we'll accept your mock', then 'oh, no we won't'.
At some point, these continuous cock ups have got to hurt the Tory lead, even if Labour does nothing. The Tories must surely lose points. Am I mad?
If there was an alternative government-in-waiting with alternative ideas then that might make it tougher for the government.
How would it be tougher? There isn't going to be a GE for nearly four years, nothing Labour can say now will change that.
Labour were a creditable government in waiting for years before 1997.
Starmer so far seems to think that being not-Corbyn is enough and then he can coast to victory. He needs to start saying something other than tut-tutting if he wants to be taken seriously.
This is exactly what governments start to say when they start to lose it. Bless.
This government is fantastic in my humble opinion.
That they recognise their mistakes swiftly and turn them around within a few days is good not bad.
I'm all for not criticising people overmuch for u-turning, we need u-turns, and so it depends how obvious a mess there was and how obvious the solution to avoid the need for a u-turn (which cannot be that obvious if all the other nations seemed to cock up as well, independently), but also so long as a u-turn from the other side is treated with the same attitude.
Has Philip ever said Labour were good for doing a U-turn?
I don't know, you'd have to ask him. All I know is u-turns always get criticised, as does being 'stubborn' and not u-turning. Then when it happens there's criticism for it being too late, but if done quickly it shows weakness.
It's a particular hypocritical element of our political discourse, which has hypocrises enough as it is, but is generally easily smoked out with the age old question: would I criticise this if my own side did it/the other side did it?
I don't think many of us pass the test often enough.
There is late, and there is too late. Changing the A level grades awarded after many universities have closed clearing is most certainly the latter. It just adds insult to injury for those who lost out.
But its not closed. They've said that original offers should be restored.
How's that going to work, then? I thought university place numbers had been capped?
Anyone who saw President Big Hat's performance on factory visits today will fancy that his time living in Minsk really is short.
The focus outside of the country is now EU/Russian diplomacy. The EU is talking like it might at least try to put the kabosh on any attempt by Russia to physically intervene via the threat of diplomatic & economic retaliation.
Warning Russia off through economic damage can have an impact, Putin has the mind of a paper pushing risk assessor and isn't half as dynamic as many have painted him. There are plenty of countries within the EU who would to wield some fairly strong measures but he EU has form in being piss poor in using its diplomatic weight. Its main exponent of do nothing, Angela Merkel, has reportedly already had a conversation with Putin.
About what?
It perfectly viable to make some soothing noises towards Russia whilst warning it off getting physically involved via overt means or subversion. EU types will have already been talking to the opposition leaders in exile and you can safely assume its not just about expressing some warm words. They will be trying to look at how Russia can be reassured by the opposition. Potential key areas include a re-emphasis on Belarus neutrality and also ensuring a continued unobstructed route between Kaliningrad and the rest of Russia.
Belarus is perfectly safe, so long as it agreed to forever be a buffer state?
Indeed. Just because that's the kind of conversations that may go on doesn't mean its nonsense though.
The buffer state idea in Europe is crackpot because the EU pose precisely no core threat to Russia but if you see through Russian government eyes Belarus is seen as a buffer and a sphere of influence issue. Plenty of European diplomats and leaders will accept that as a real thing rather than an outdated load of cobblers. As a result they will spend plenty of time trying to moderate Russia rather than offering up an on the quiet 'stay out or we'll put the thumbscrews on your basket case economy'.
Being a model dictatorship the Russian government will of course play the game of the legitimate player title that its been given whilst constantly measuring whether the Europeans will do diddly squat.
Watching Lukashenko work his socks off to obfuscate at home & play external parties off against each other in the hope of clinging on is definitely a case study in seat of the pants political manoeuvring. At this point it doesn't look like it will save him his job but its an interesting effort nonetheless.
At some point, these continuous cock ups have got to hurt the Tory lead, even if Labour does nothing. The Tories must surely lose points. Am I mad?
If there was an alternative government-in-waiting with alternative ideas then that might make it tougher for the government.
How would it be tougher? There isn't going to be a GE for nearly four years, nothing Labour can say now will change that.
Labour were a creditable government in waiting for years before 1997.
Starmer so far seems to think that being not-Corbyn is enough and then he can coast to victory. He needs to start saying something other than tut-tutting if he wants to be taken seriously.
This is exactly what governments start to say when they start to lose it. Bless.
This government is fantastic in my humble opinion.
That they recognise their mistakes swiftly and turn them around within a few days is good not bad.
I'm all for not criticising people overmuch for u-turning, we need u-turns, and so it depends how obvious a mess there was and how obvious the solution to avoid the need for a u-turn (which cannot be that obvious if all the other nations seemed to cock up as well, independently), but also so long as a u-turn from the other side is treated with the same attitude.
Has Philip ever said Labour were good for doing a U-turn?
I don't know, you'd have to ask him. All I know is u-turns always get criticised, as does being 'stubborn' and not u-turning. Then when it happens there's criticism for it being too late, but if done quickly it shows weakness.
It's a particular hypocritical element of our political discourse, which has hypocrises enough as it is, but is generally easily smoked out with the age old question: would I criticise this if my own side did it/the other side did it?
I don't think many of us pass the test often enough.
There is late, and there is too late. Changing the A level grades awarded after many universities have closed clearing is most certainly the latter. It just adds insult to injury for those who lost out.
But its not closed. They've said that original offers should be restored.
How's that going to work, then? I thought university place numbers had been capped?
I think the cap has gone. Having said that, there are a lot of steps between "government tells universities to restore offers" and "the bajillion interlocking practicalities can be sorted in time for the start of term"... still, tomorrow is another day.
He used to be at Deutsche Bank, and did a pretty good job there too. I also doubt that Javid has any pull left. This is JP paying for a name to sit on some nothing advisory board.
It does, however, give us quite a big insight that Javid has given up his leadership ambitions.
An investment banker who did a good job pre-2010? It's possible I suppose.
Not at Deutsche Bank. An utter shitshow with an appalling culture. A significant proportion of the bankers I investigated worked there.
He's doing to take down the Union and the Conservative Party with him.
Who should it take down the Union when the Scottish government made exactly the same errors and Swinney is also facing calls to resign?
More Tory voters also think Williamson should stay than go
This member does not, he needs to go
He should but not over this. He's done the right thing (in u-turning) today - that shouldn't see him go. He should go as he should never have been there in the first place not because of this fiasco.
Why has it taken them over a week to u-turn Philip?
It should have come the day after the Scottish decision. It would be grossly injust for there to be large differences in gradings across different parts of our nation.
He's doing to take down the Union and the Conservative Party with him.
Who should it take down the Union when the Scottish government made exactly the same errors and Swinney is also facing calls to resign?
More Tory voters also think Williamson should stay than go
This member does not, he needs to go
He should but not over this. He's done the right thing (in u-turning) today - that shouldn't see him go. He should go as he should never have been there in the first place not because of this fiasco.
Why has it taken them over a week to u-turn Philip?
Same question to Wales and Northern Ireland in fairness and it took Sturgeon a week to change originally
Mind you I want Williamson out because he is useless
Having seen Scotland resist and then cave in, HMG spent a week doing the same but with added stupidities: first 'triple-lock', then 'we'll accept your mock', then 'oh, no we won't'.
You see that as a bad thing, I don't. They spent the week looking for a solution, before settling on the least worst solution.
If the triple lock had worked we could have moved on and it might have been a better solution. It didn't. So be it.
I know that's a fun meme given things turned out pretty chaotic, but whenever I see it I feel like the poster is unintentionally highlighting just how successful a point it was, and thus the importance of hammering home a message. It worked.
Indeed. It worked. Which is why we should resolve to be on our guard against simple, seductive messaging. Cos it can often turn out to be catastrophic bollocks.
At some point, these continuous cock ups have got to hurt the Tory lead, even if Labour does nothing. The Tories must surely lose points. Am I mad?
If there was an alternative government-in-waiting with alternative ideas then that might make it tougher for the government.
How would it be tougher? There isn't going to be a GE for nearly four years, nothing Labour can say now will change that.
Labour were a creditable government in waiting for years before 1997.
Starmer so far seems to think that being not-Corbyn is enough and then he can coast to victory. He needs to start saying something other than tut-tutting if he wants to be taken seriously.
This is exactly what governments start to say when they start to lose it. Bless.
This government is fantastic in my humble opinion.
That they recognise their mistakes swiftly and turn them around within a few days is good not bad.
I'm all for not criticising people overmuch for u-turning, we need u-turns, and so it depends how obvious a mess there was and how obvious the solution to avoid the need for a u-turn (which cannot be that obvious if all the other nations seemed to cock up as well, independently), but also so long as a u-turn from the other side is treated with the same attitude.
Has Philip ever said Labour were good for doing a U-turn?
I don't know, you'd have to ask him. All I know is u-turns always get criticised, as does being 'stubborn' and not u-turning. Then when it happens there's criticism for it being too late, but if done quickly it shows weakness.
It's a particular hypocritical element of our political discourse, which has hypocrises enough as it is, but is generally easily smoked out with the age old question: would I criticise this if my own side did it/the other side did it?
I don't think many of us pass the test often enough.
There is late, and there is too late. Changing the A level grades awarded after many universities have closed clearing is most certainly the latter. It just adds insult to injury for those who lost out.
But its not closed. They've said that original offers should be restored.
How's that going to work, then? I thought university place numbers had been capped?
The caps been lifted.
That's the cap that was put in place just two months ago in June to stop universities “taking a recruitment approach which would go against the interests of students and the sector as a whole” according to the Department of Education. So a recruitment approach that goes against the interests of students and the sector as a whole is OK now then, is it?
Comments
Funny that. Almost as if this isn't a resigning matter.
Cummings will deliver his agenda.
The cabinet are just window dressing.
I kind of appreciate such stubbornness, as it means there's no question it is down to the Leader to drop them, no expectation of people distracting with talk of honourable resignation.
https://twitter.com/David_Cameron/status/595112367358406656?s=20
Starmer so far seems to think that being not-Corbyn is enough and then he can coast to victory. He needs to start saying something other than tut-tutting if he wants to be taken seriously.
That they recognise their mistakes swiftly and turn them around within a few days is good not bad.
Anyone who saw President Big Hat's performance on factory visits today will fancy that his time living in Minsk really is short.
The focus outside of the country is now EU/Russian diplomacy. The EU is talking like it might at least try to put the kabosh on any attempt by Russia to physically intervene via the threat of diplomatic & economic retaliation.
Warning Russia off through economic damage can have an impact, Putin has the mind of a paper pushing risk assessor and isn't half as dynamic as many have painted him. There are plenty of countries within the EU who would to wield some fairly strong measures but he EU has form in being piss poor in using its diplomatic weight. Its main exponent of do nothing, Angela Merkel, has reportedly already had a conversation with Putin.
About what?
It perfectly viable to make some soothing noises towards Russia whilst warning it off getting physically involved via overt means or subversion. EU types will have already been talking to the opposition leaders in exile and you can safely assume its not just about expressing some warm words. They will be trying to look at how Russia can be reassured by the opposition. Potential key areas include a re-emphasis on Belarus neutrality and also ensuring a continued unobstructed route between Kaliningrad and the rest of Russia.
https://twitter.com/TrumpStudents/status/1295478235074002945?s=19
https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1295475269504032769?s=19
With nobody getting poor A level results now, who will be stuck with having to study Lego Studies at Del Monte?
Night all.
I'm true to my word. What else should I do?
They were elected to beat Corbyn?
I praised Starmer for apologising to the antisemitism whistle blowers and settling the libel case, does that count as a u-turn?
It's a particular hypocritical element of our political discourse, which has hypocrises enough as it is, but is generally easily smoked out with the age old question: would I criticise this if my own side did it/the other side did it?
I don't think many of us pass the test often enough.
They did a u-turn on Wednesday introducing the triple-lock idea as a last minute fudged solution to try and save the grades. It was OK in theory but too little, too late, it didn't answer the problems that became apparent over this weekend.
Perhaps not. Slant rhymes probably not good for slogans.
Mind you I want Williamson out because he is useless
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdbjw27QPJQ
The buffer state idea in Europe is crackpot because the EU pose precisely no core threat to Russia but if you see through Russian government eyes Belarus is seen as a buffer and a sphere of influence issue. Plenty of European diplomats and leaders will accept that as a real thing rather than an outdated load of cobblers. As a result they will spend plenty of time trying to moderate Russia rather than offering up an on the quiet 'stay out or we'll put the thumbscrews on your basket case economy'.
Being a model dictatorship the Russian government will of course play the game of the legitimate player title that its been given whilst constantly measuring whether the Europeans will do diddly squat.
Watching Lukashenko work his socks off to obfuscate at home & play external parties off against each other in the hope of clinging on is definitely a case study in seat of the pants political manoeuvring. At this point it doesn't look like it will save him his job but its an interesting effort nonetheless.
Conservative majority sorted.
If the triple lock had worked we could have moved on and it might have been a better solution. It didn't. So be it.
Cos it can often turn out to be catastrophic bollocks.
Oh, already copyrighted?