I notice Philip never actually answered why he supports Eton existing, he just went onto deflect.
Why do you support Waitrose or M & S or the Ritz hotel or Mercedes Benz or Rolls Royce or Oxford and Cambridge existing either? Because the produce high quality services and products.
Same as an outstanding academy or comprehensive or grammar school compared to an inadequate or requires improvement state school
And if you have money you can avoid all of this and go to a school which will give you connections and a better chance of getting into a good Uni.
The solution to use your analogy, is to ensure that Tesco has products that are as good as those offered at Waitrose, not to ban Waitrose from selling better quality products.
If Tesco produced as good or better products than Waitrose, Waitrose customers would go to Tesco and prices would rise their accordingly and Tesco customers would then go to Waitrose whose prices would fall accordingly.
Basic market economics
If you believe in private education you dont believe in equality of opportunity.
That doesn’t follow.
Private education is a mode of delivery. Liberty demands that people should have the right to educate their kids how they like.
Believing in equality of opportunity means that I want state funded schools to be so good that no one chooses to educate their children privately
Do you want it enough to propose raising taxes to equalise per pupil funding in the state and private sector?
Private sector fees are too high - there is a lot of wasted money.
In any event focusing on inputs not outputs is the wrong approach
I would focus (In no particular order) on things like nutrition, class sizes, reversal of child centric education, homework, discipline, setting, restoring teachers pride/prestige, etc
It’s likely that, in aggregate, it would cost more.
Fully in favour, all good points. I think its a lot stronger than "likely" that raising standards in the public sector to match the private sector through your approach would cost taxpayers a lot, lot more though.
Quite an amazing survey on public attitudes if there’s no Covid vaccine or treatment. Come on Britain get a grip. You’re all obsessed with the algorithm used to determine exam results but it seems the majority no longer think school is even important enough to even bother with.
Life is a risky activity with a 100% risk of dying from it. But there’s a danger that not everyone is going to actually truly live before they die.
Looking at the final pages, I suggest the cancellation of furlough and a ratchet down of the state pension for however long there are restrictions in place might start to do the trick.
How the utterly clueless SNP gets the sycophantic level of coverage it continues to,get when it’s handling of the covid crisis has been pitiful is a mystery.
The University of Aberdeen went on to develop an international reputation in the field of disease control, notably in the appointment of Professor Hugh Pennington to the post of Professor of Bacteriology from 1979 until his retirement in 2003.
Better CV than Sturgeon's poodle.
Unionists holding up an 82 year old bacteriologist as their Covid poster boy is quite the metaphor. What was his CV like at the age of 36?
The University of Aberdeen went on to develop an international reputation in the field of disease control, notably in the appointment of Professor Hugh Pennington to the post of Professor of Bacteriology from 1979 until his retirement in 2003.
Better CV than Sturgeon's poodle.
Unionists holding up an 82 year old bacteriologist as their Covid poster boy is quite the metaphor. What was his CV like at the age of 36?
Sridhar certainly seems to wind up the dinosaurs, her age and sex no doubt playing a part. I hesitate to speculate on what other -isms might be involved.
Trouble is, if he goes for presiding over a sh*tshow, it rather exposes most of the others.
Exactly.
If a Cabinet Minister can get the sack, where will it end?
Even SPADs might be considered expendable...
Isabel Hardman in today’s Guardian/Observer - worth a read about the growing realisation among Tories that their government is f***ing this up bigtime.
My occasional reminder that I predict this government will be plumbing the depths in polling by next summer.
But why not now.
It amazes me that HMG polling has not collapsed
Though on exams the Scottish Government have debased their whole system for popularity but both the English and Welsh governments are in chaos not knowing how to find a fair and sensible way through and definitely not helped by the ridiculous Gavin Williamson
I think your missing the pulse of the public on this. You are hearing the cries of those affected but I`d wager that the majority are on the side of maintaining consistent standards across years (i.e. avoiding grade inflation). This populist government knows this and while I think a U Turn is possible I haven`t quite got to the point that I think it`s likely.
You may well be right
I just do not see how Starmer calling to debase the system, as in Scotland, is responsible
I would say it will not be forgotten that 2020 exam results were in the pandemic when students did not take actual exams, and that this must not be allowed ever to happen again
Nothing debased about Scotland G, they did the right thing and trusted the teachers rather than some totally bent algorithm. You diehard cult Tories would support them if they came in and murdered your family in front of you.
Malcolm, changing policy to ditch an algorithm that a fairly dim eight year old would have pointed out was flawed when it became obvious the alternative was massive unrest and their popularity collapsing is hardly ‘trusting the teachers rather than some totally bent algorithm.’
The fact Williamson is even more useless is not really an alibi.
Still they had the cojones to fess up ydoethur and took it on the chin and do the right thing even if it showed them up. I would prefer teachers opinion to a dodgy algorithm thought up by some pen pusher. I think they at least did the right thing, agree they should have for seen it was going to be a car crash up front mind you.
Yes, that is my point.
They did not do it because it was the right thing, even if it was.
It was because it was politically expedient.
That’s not a question of ‘cojones.’ Arguably, it’s the opposite.
Cojones would, for example, be admitting Police Scotland was an avoidable disaster and disbanding it.
Police Scotland are no worse than any other UK police force and better than most , especially the MET. What makes you think it is a disaster, no sign of disaster in Scotland , surely not from some southern unionist rag.
You will ignore these because they don’t come from The National, but you would be advised to study them:
The University of Aberdeen went on to develop an international reputation in the field of disease control, notably in the appointment of Professor Hugh Pennington to the post of Professor of Bacteriology from 1979 until his retirement in 2003.
Better CV than Sturgeon's poodle.
Unionists holding up an 82 year old bacteriologist as their Covid poster boy is quite the metaphor. What was his CV like at the age of 36?
Sridhar certainly seems to wind up the dinosaurs, her age and sex no doubt playing a part. I hesitate to speculate on what other -isms might be involved.
Going back to Aberdeen typhoid outbreak - I suspect the higher numbers were on the assumotion that the water supply was contaminated. It must have been a huge relief to find that it was just one catering tin of corned beef cooled at the packing plant by South American tiver water that got in through a tiny leak. The other point is that it was aggressive local health board public health and coincil staff that got the outbreak contained, as I recall. Prof P's comparison would only be fair if covid--19 turned out to be transmitted not by coughs but only by dodgy bottles of some imported delicacy.
Trouble is, if he goes for presiding over a sh*tshow, it rather exposes most of the others.
Exactly.
If a Cabinet Minister can get the sack, where will it end?
Even SPADs might be considered expendable...
Isabel Hardman in today’s Guardian/Observer - worth a read about the growing realisation among Tories that their government is f***ing this up bigtime.
My occasional reminder that I predict this government will be plumbing the depths in polling by next summer.
But why not now.
It amazes me that HMG polling has not collapsed
Though on exams the Scottish Government have debased their whole system for popularity but both the English and Welsh governments are in chaos not knowing how to find a fair and sensible way through and definitely not helped by the ridiculous Gavin Williamson
I think your missing the pulse of the public on this. You are hearing the cries of those affected but I`d wager that the majority are on the side of maintaining consistent standards across years (i.e. avoiding grade inflation). This populist government knows this and while I think a U Turn is possible I haven`t quite got to the point that I think it`s likely.
You may well be right
I just do not see how Starmer calling to debase the system, as in Scotland, is responsible
I would say it will not be forgotten that 2020 exam results were in the pandemic when students did not take actual exams, and that this must not be allowed ever to happen again
Nothing debased about Scotland G, they did the right thing and trusted the teachers rather than some totally bent algorithm. You diehard cult Tories would support them if they came in and murdered your family in front of you.
That is a truly disgusting comment and really is wholly unnecessary
Criticism is fair but comments like that are just abhorrent
Constant whining with ill founded criticism of the Scottish Government by Tory cult members is abhorrent. Try looking at your own patch rather than constant insults to Scottish government. Try to think outside your cult. You do not like that the Scottish Government are liked and your heroes are idols of clay , tough luck. Hard to believe anything would make you NOT a Tory voter.
You miss the point.
Your reference to my family marks you out as bitter and nasty and in no way illustrates the generous nature of the Scots.
I think you miss the point G, you are a Tory zealot and your constant attacks on everything the Scottish Government does is pathetic. If you cannot take the heat of political discussion and rhetoric then you should not be in the kitchen. It is not a knitting bee on here, even if you and Carlotta believe it is.
You go way over the line from time to time and it is unnecessary to any debate
And you are not going to silence me over Scots matters or shout me down with verbal abuse or otherwise
That is very much the cybernats approach. That and playing the victim when people stand up to the bullying.
Trouble is, if he goes for presiding over a sh*tshow, it rather exposes most of the others.
Exactly.
If a Cabinet Minister can get the sack, where will it end?
Even SPADs might be considered expendable...
Isabel Hardman in today’s Guardian/Observer - worth a read about the growing realisation among Tories that their government is f***ing this up bigtime.
My occasional reminder that I predict this government will be plumbing the depths in polling by next summer.
But why not now.
It amazes me that HMG polling has not collapsed
Though on exams the Scottish Government have debased their whole system for popularity but both the English and Welsh governments are in chaos not knowing how to find a fair and sensible way through and definitely not helped by the ridiculous Gavin Williamson
I think your missing the pulse of the public on this. You are hearing the cries of those affected but I`d wager that the majority are on the side of maintaining consistent standards across years (i.e. avoiding grade inflation). This populist government knows this and while I think a U Turn is possible I haven`t quite got to the point that I think it`s likely.
You may well be right
I just do not see how Starmer calling to debase the system, as in Scotland, is responsible
I would say it will not be forgotten that 2020 exam results were in the pandemic when students did not take actual exams, and that this must not be allowed ever to happen again
Nothing debased about Scotland G, they did the right thing and trusted the teachers rather than some totally bent algorithm. You diehard cult Tories would support them if they came in and murdered your family in front of you.
Malcolm, changing policy to ditch an algorithm that a fairly dim eight year old would have pointed out was flawed when it became obvious the alternative was massive unrest and their popularity collapsing is hardly ‘trusting the teachers rather than some totally bent algorithm.’
The fact Williamson is even more useless is not really an alibi.
Still they had the cojones to fess up ydoethur and took it on the chin and do the right thing even if it showed them up. I would prefer teachers opinion to a dodgy algorithm thought up by some pen pusher. I think they at least did the right thing, agree they should have for seen it was going to be a car crash up front mind you.
Yes, that is my point.
They did not do it because it was the right thing, even if it was.
It was because it was politically expedient.
That’s not a question of ‘cojones.’ Arguably, it’s the opposite.
Cojones would, for example, be admitting Police Scotland was an avoidable disaster and disbanding it.
Police Scotland are no worse than any other UK police force and better than most , especially the MET. What makes you think it is a disaster, no sign of disaster in Scotland , surely not from some southern unionist rag.
You will ignore these because they don’t come from The National, but you would be advised to study them:
How the utterly clueless SNP gets the sycophantic level of coverage it continues to,get when it’s handling of the covid crisis has been pitiful is a mystery.
It'll be the supine press, the complicit state broadcaster and the appeasing opposition that's letting them away with it, for sure.
How the utterly clueless SNP gets the sycophantic level of coverage it continues to,get when it’s handling of the covid crisis has been pitiful is a mystery.
It'll be the supine press, the complicit state broadcaster and the appeasing opposition that's letting them away with, for sure.
Oh, it must be a different Andrew Neil then. I had no idea.
The University of Aberdeen went on to develop an international reputation in the field of disease control, notably in the appointment of Professor Hugh Pennington to the post of Professor of Bacteriology from 1979 until his retirement in 2003.
Better CV than Sturgeon's poodle.
Unionists holding up an 82 year old bacteriologist as their Covid poster boy is quite the metaphor. What was his CV like at the age of 36?
Sridhar certainly seems to wind up the dinosaurs, her age and sex no doubt playing a part. I hesitate to speculate on what other -isms might be involved.
Going back to Aberdeen typhoid outbreak - I suspect the higher numbers were on the assumotion that the water supply was contaminated. It must have been a huge relief to find that it was just one catering tin of corned beef cooled at the packing plant by South American tiver water that got in through a tiny leak. The other point is that it was aggressive local health board public health and coincil staff that got the outbreak contained, as I recall. Prof P's comparison would only be fair if covid--19 turned out to be transmitted not by coughs but only by dodgy bottles of some imported delicacy.
How the utterly clueless SNP gets the sycophantic level of coverage it continues to,get when it’s handling of the covid crisis has been pitiful is a mystery.
There you have two horrors together, your Tory lickspittles, brillo pad and the odious galloway and posted and pontificated on by an absolute tool here who is obviously a second division addition to the Tory CCHQ contingent on here.
Trouble is, if he goes for presiding over a sh*tshow, it rather exposes most of the others.
Exactly.
If a Cabinet Minister can get the sack, where will it end?
Even SPADs might be considered expendable...
Isabel Hardman in today’s Guardian/Observer - worth a read about the growing realisation among Tories that their government is f***ing this up bigtime.
My occasional reminder that I predict this government will be plumbing the depths in polling by next summer.
But why not now.
It amazes me that HMG polling has not collapsed
Though on exams the Scottish Government have debased their whole system for popularity but both the English and Welsh governments are in chaos not knowing how to find a fair and sensible way through and definitely not helped by the ridiculous Gavin Williamson
I think your missing the pulse of the public on this. You are hearing the cries of those affected but I`d wager that the majority are on the side of maintaining consistent standards across years (i.e. avoiding grade inflation). This populist government knows this and while I think a U Turn is possible I haven`t quite got to the point that I think it`s likely.
You may well be right
I just do not see how Starmer calling to debase the system, as in Scotland, is responsible
I would say it will not be forgotten that 2020 exam results were in the pandemic when students did not take actual exams, and that this must not be allowed ever to happen again
Nothing debased about Scotland G, they did the right thing and trusted the teachers rather than some totally bent algorithm. You diehard cult Tories would support them if they came in and murdered your family in front of you.
That is a truly disgusting comment and really is wholly unnecessary
Criticism is fair but comments like that are just abhorrent
Constant whining with ill founded criticism of the Scottish Government by Tory cult members is abhorrent. Try looking at your own patch rather than constant insults to Scottish government. Try to think outside your cult. You do not like that the Scottish Government are liked and your heroes are idols of clay , tough luck. Hard to believe anything would make you NOT a Tory voter.
You miss the point.
Your reference to my family marks you out as bitter and nasty and in no way illustrates the generous nature of the Scots.
I think you miss the point G, you are a Tory zealot and your constant attacks on everything the Scottish Government does is pathetic. If you cannot take the heat of political discussion and rhetoric then you should not be in the kitchen. It is not a knitting bee on here, even if you and Carlotta believe it is.
You go way over the line from time to time and it is unnecessary to any debate
And you are not going to silence me over Scots matters or shout me down with verbal abuse or otherwise
That is very much the cybernats approach. That and playing the victim when people stand up to the bullying.
That and framing every attack on the SNP as an attack on Scotland.
Oh goody, we're back to trying to get the young to vote. They won't turn out, even though they really should. Every time they just let themselves down.
The University of Aberdeen went on to develop an international reputation in the field of disease control, notably in the appointment of Professor Hugh Pennington to the post of Professor of Bacteriology from 1979 until his retirement in 2003.
Better CV than Sturgeon's poodle.
Unionists holding up an 82 year old bacteriologist as their Covid poster boy is quite the metaphor. What was his CV like at the age of 36?
Sridhar certainly seems to wind up the dinosaurs, her age and sex no doubt playing a part. I hesitate to speculate on what other -isms might be involved.
Going back to Aberdeen typhoid outbreak - I suspect the higher numbers were on the assumotion that the water supply was contaminated. It must have been a huge relief to find that it was just one catering tin of corned beef cooled at the packing plant by South American tiver water that got in through a tiny leak. The other point is that it was aggressive local health board public health and coincil staff that got the outbreak contained, as I recall. Prof P's comparison would only be fair if covid--19 turned out to be transmitted not by coughs but only by dodgy bottles of some imported delicacy.
Trouble is, if he goes for presiding over a sh*tshow, it rather exposes most of the others.
Exactly.
If a Cabinet Minister can get the sack, where will it end?
Even SPADs might be considered expendable...
Isabel Hardman in today’s Guardian/Observer - worth a read about the growing realisation among Tories that their government is f***ing this up bigtime.
My occasional reminder that I predict this government will be plumbing the depths in polling by next summer.
But why not now.
It amazes me that HMG polling has not collapsed
Though on exams the Scottish Government have debased their whole system for popularity but both the English and Welsh governments are in chaos not knowing how to find a fair and sensible way through and definitely not helped by the ridiculous Gavin Williamson
I think your missing the pulse of the public on this. You are hearing the cries of those affected but I`d wager that the majority are on the side of maintaining consistent standards across years (i.e. avoiding grade inflation). This populist government knows this and while I think a U Turn is possible I haven`t quite got to the point that I think it`s likely.
You may well be right
I just do not see how Starmer calling to debase the system, as in Scotland, is responsible
I would say it will not be forgotten that 2020 exam results were in the pandemic when students did not take actual exams, and that this must not be allowed ever to happen again
Nothing debased about Scotland G, they did the right thing and trusted the teachers rather than some totally bent algorithm. You diehard cult Tories would support them if they came in and murdered your family in front of you.
That is a truly disgusting comment and really is wholly unnecessary
Criticism is fair but comments like that are just abhorrent
Constant whining with ill founded criticism of the Scottish Government by Tory cult members is abhorrent. Try looking at your own patch rather than constant insults to Scottish government. Try to think outside your cult. You do not like that the Scottish Government are liked and your heroes are idols of clay , tough luck. Hard to believe anything would make you NOT a Tory voter.
You miss the point.
Your reference to my family marks you out as bitter and nasty and in no way illustrates the generous nature of the Scots.
I think you miss the point G, you are a Tory zealot and your constant attacks on everything the Scottish Government does is pathetic. If you cannot take the heat of political discussion and rhetoric then you should not be in the kitchen. It is not a knitting bee on here, even if you and Carlotta believe it is.
You go way over the line from time to time and it is unnecessary to any debate
And you are not going to silence me over Scots matters or shout me down with verbal abuse or otherwise
That is very much the cybernats approach. That and playing the victim when people stand up to the bullying.
Trouble is, if he goes for presiding over a sh*tshow, it rather exposes most of the others.
Exactly.
If a Cabinet Minister can get the sack, where will it end?
Even SPADs might be considered expendable...
Isabel Hardman in today’s Guardian/Observer - worth a read about the growing realisation among Tories that their government is f***ing this up bigtime.
My occasional reminder that I predict this government will be plumbing the depths in polling by next summer.
But why not now.
It amazes me that HMG polling has not collapsed
Though on exams the Scottish Government have debased their whole system for popularity but both the English and Welsh governments are in chaos not knowing how to find a fair and sensible way through and definitely not helped by the ridiculous Gavin Williamson
I think your missing the pulse of the public on this. You are hearing the cries of those affected but I`d wager that the majority are on the side of maintaining consistent standards across years (i.e. avoiding grade inflation). This populist government knows this and while I think a U Turn is possible I haven`t quite got to the point that I think it`s likely.
You may well be right
I just do not see how Starmer calling to debase the system, as in Scotland, is responsible
I would say it will not be forgotten that 2020 exam results were in the pandemic when students did not take actual exams, and that this must not be allowed ever to happen again
Nothing debased about Scotland G, they did the right thing and trusted the teachers rather than some totally bent algorithm. You diehard cult Tories would support them if they came in and murdered your family in front of you.
That is a truly disgusting comment and really is wholly unnecessary
Criticism is fair but comments like that are just abhorrent
Constant whining with ill founded criticism of the Scottish Government by Tory cult members is abhorrent. Try looking at your own patch rather than constant insults to Scottish government. Try to think outside your cult. You do not like that the Scottish Government are liked and your heroes are idols of clay , tough luck. Hard to believe anything would make you NOT a Tory voter.
You miss the point.
Your reference to my family marks you out as bitter and nasty and in no way illustrates the generous nature of the Scots.
I think you miss the point G, you are a Tory zealot and your constant attacks on everything the Scottish Government does is pathetic. If you cannot take the heat of political discussion and rhetoric then you should not be in the kitchen. It is not a knitting bee on here, even if you and Carlotta believe it is.
You go way over the line from time to time and it is unnecessary to any debate
And you are not going to silence me over Scots matters or shout me down with verbal abuse or otherwise
That is very much the cybernats approach. That and playing the victim when people stand up to the bullying.
Oh CCHQ have sent out a big hitter ( PMSL ) to defend Big G. Boy blunder hurls insults and childish names as he talks of bullying. On your way or I will pull your pigtails jessie boy.
What percentage of the population is (a) 18 and (b) with disappointing grades (c) heading to a university that (d) won't stretch a point and let them in but (e) they really, really care about it? I suggest it is vanishingly small, barely enough to fill a page on the BBC website, but because half of them are photogenic girls they will get more attention than their numbers merit.
The simple solution is for Rishi to phone around the vice-chancellors tomorrow morning and stuff their mouths with gold until they relent. Which they will surely do, after a nanosecond's hesitation about declining academic standards. Most of the students will get into the university of their choice and in the fulness of time will get the degree they deserve.
The idea of retaking A-levels in October is unduly complex and creates more problems than it solves. Easier by far to cut the Gordian knot using money borrowed from future graduates.
How the utterly clueless SNP gets the sycophantic level of coverage it continues to,get when it’s handling of the covid crisis has been pitiful is a mystery.
The Scottish Government looks less incompetent than the English one - especially if you choose to ignore the fact that it acted in almost complete lockstep with the rest of the UK throughout the peak of the crisis at least, and its epically awful record on care home deaths, and instead concentrate on the fact that Nicola Sturgeon comes across better than Boris Johnson on the telly.
Scotland was pants, but can advance a case that it was a bit less pants than the English. That's the main thing.
The University of Aberdeen went on to develop an international reputation in the field of disease control, notably in the appointment of Professor Hugh Pennington to the post of Professor of Bacteriology from 1979 until his retirement in 2003.
Better CV than Sturgeon's poodle.
Unionists holding up an 82 year old bacteriologist as their Covid poster boy is quite the metaphor. What was his CV like at the age of 36?
Sridhar certainly seems to wind up the dinosaurs, her age and sex no doubt playing a part. I hesitate to speculate on what other -isms might be involved.
Going back to Aberdeen typhoid outbreak - I suspect the higher numbers were on the assumotion that the water supply was contaminated. It must have been a huge relief to find that it was just one catering tin of corned beef cooled at the packing plant by South American tiver water that got in through a tiny leak. The other point is that it was aggressive local health board public health and coincil staff that got the outbreak contained, as I recall. Prof P's comparison would only be fair if covid--19 turned out to be transmitted not by coughs but only by dodgy bottles of some imported delicacy.
He is either senile or just a mendacious old git, if that is the best they can muster is it any wonder they are a laughing stock. He should stick to his childish letters to the unionist rags and try and retain a shred of dignity..
The University of Aberdeen went on to develop an international reputation in the field of disease control, notably in the appointment of Professor Hugh Pennington to the post of Professor of Bacteriology from 1979 until his retirement in 2003.
Better CV than Sturgeon's poodle.
Unionists holding up an 82 year old bacteriologist as their Covid poster boy is quite the metaphor. What was his CV like at the age of 36?
Sridhar certainly seems to wind up the dinosaurs, her age and sex no doubt playing a part. I hesitate to speculate on what other -isms might be involved.
Going back to Aberdeen typhoid outbreak - I suspect the higher numbers were on the assumotion that the water supply was contaminated. It must have been a huge relief to find that it was just one catering tin of corned beef cooled at the packing plant by South American tiver water that got in through a tiny leak. The other point is that it was aggressive local health board public health and coincil staff that got the outbreak contained, as I recall. Prof P's comparison would only be fair if covid--19 turned out to be transmitted not by coughs but only by dodgy bottles of some imported delicacy.
Trouble is, if he goes for presiding over a sh*tshow, it rather exposes most of the others.
Exactly.
If a Cabinet Minister can get the sack, where will it end?
Even SPADs might be considered expendable...
Isabel Hardman in today’s Guardian/Observer - worth a read about the growing realisation among Tories that their government is f***ing this up bigtime.
My occasional reminder that I predict this government will be plumbing the depths in polling by next summer.
But why not now.
It amazes me that HMG polling has not collapsed
Though on exams the Scottish Government have debased their whole system for popularity but both the English and Welsh governments are in chaos not knowing how to find a fair and sensible way through and definitely not helped by the ridiculous Gavin Williamson
I think your missing the pulse of the public on this. You are hearing the cries of those affected but I`d wager that the majority are on the side of maintaining consistent standards across years (i.e. avoiding grade inflation). This populist government knows this and while I think a U Turn is possible I haven`t quite got to the point that I think it`s likely.
You may well be right
I just do not see how Starmer calling to debase the system, as in Scotland, is responsible
I would say it will not be forgotten that 2020 exam results were in the pandemic when students did not take actual exams, and that this must not be allowed ever to happen again
Nothing debased about Scotland G, they did the right thing and trusted the teachers rather than some totally bent algorithm. You diehard cult Tories would support them if they came in and murdered your family in front of you.
Malcolm, changing policy to ditch an algorithm that a fairly dim eight year old would have pointed out was flawed when it became obvious the alternative was massive unrest and their popularity collapsing is hardly ‘trusting the teachers rather than some totally bent algorithm.’
The fact Williamson is even more useless is not really an alibi.
Still they had the cojones to fess up ydoethur and took it on the chin and do the right thing even if it showed them up. I would prefer teachers opinion to a dodgy algorithm thought up by some pen pusher. I think they at least did the right thing, agree they should have for seen it was going to be a car crash up front mind you.
Yes, that is my point.
They did not do it because it was the right thing, even if it was.
It was because it was politically expedient.
That’s not a question of ‘cojones.’ Arguably, it’s the opposite.
Cojones would, for example, be admitting Police Scotland was an avoidable disaster and disbanding it.
Police Scotland are no worse than any other UK police force and better than most , especially the MET. What makes you think it is a disaster, no sign of disaster in Scotland , surely not from some southern unionist rag.
You will ignore these because they don’t come from The National, but you would be advised to study them:
And it’s not a question of ‘whether they are better or worse than any other force’ - the question is, ‘are they better than what they replaced?’
And unfortunately the answer is clearly no.
I will give them a read but have to say there is no way the array of tiny forces we had before was anywhere as good. It was useless and inefficient
One is behind paywall and other you have to register so unfortunately not able to see, did see Times was talking of Susan Deacon , well know Labour MSP so not hard to know what the whinges will be.
Oh goody, we're back to trying to get the young to vote. They won't turn out, even though they really should. Every time they just let themselves down.
The last party the young should vote for is the Labour Party.
The University of Aberdeen went on to develop an international reputation in the field of disease control, notably in the appointment of Professor Hugh Pennington to the post of Professor of Bacteriology from 1979 until his retirement in 2003.
Better CV than Sturgeon's poodle.
Unionists holding up an 82 year old bacteriologist as their Covid poster boy is quite the metaphor. What was his CV like at the age of 36?
Sridhar certainly seems to wind up the dinosaurs, her age and sex no doubt playing a part. I hesitate to speculate on what other -isms might be involved.
Going back to Aberdeen typhoid outbreak - I suspect the higher numbers were on the assumotion that the water supply was contaminated. It must have been a huge relief to find that it was just one catering tin of corned beef cooled at the packing plant by South American tiver water that got in through a tiny leak. The other point is that it was aggressive local health board public health and coincil staff that got the outbreak contained, as I recall. Prof P's comparison would only be fair if covid--19 turned out to be transmitted not by coughs but only by dodgy bottles of some imported delicacy.
Oh goody, we're back to trying to get the young to vote. They won't turn out, even though they really should. Every time they just let themselves down.
The last party the young should vote for is the Labour Party.
Yes they won't register to vote as they would end up paying council tax
Trouble is, if he goes for presiding over a sh*tshow, it rather exposes most of the others.
Exactly.
If a Cabinet Minister can get the sack, where will it end?
Even SPADs might be considered expendable...
Isabel Hardman in today’s Guardian/Observer - worth a read about the growing realisation among Tories that their government is f***ing this up bigtime.
My occasional reminder that I predict this government will be plumbing the depths in polling by next summer.
But why not now.
It amazes me that HMG polling has not collapsed
Though on exams the Scottish Government have debased their whole system for popularity but both the English and Welsh governments are in chaos not knowing how to find a fair and sensible way through and definitely not helped by the ridiculous Gavin Williamson
I think your missing the pulse of the public on this. You are hearing the cries of those affected but I`d wager that the majority are on the side of maintaining consistent standards across years (i.e. avoiding grade inflation). This populist government knows this and while I think a U Turn is possible I haven`t quite got to the point that I think it`s likely.
You may well be right
I just do not see how Starmer calling to debase the system, as in Scotland, is responsible
I would say it will not be forgotten that 2020 exam results were in the pandemic when students did not take actual exams, and that this must not be allowed ever to happen again
Nothing debased about Scotland G, they did the right thing and trusted the teachers rather than some totally bent algorithm. You diehard cult Tories would support them if they came in and murdered your family in front of you.
Malcolm, changing policy to ditch an algorithm that a fairly dim eight year old would have pointed out was flawed when it became obvious the alternative was massive unrest and their popularity collapsing is hardly ‘trusting the teachers rather than some totally bent algorithm.’
The fact Williamson is even more useless is not really an alibi.
massive unrest or a small dent in popularity ahead of an election? did anyone get sufficiently fed up to smash a window?
Oh goody, we're back to trying to get the young to vote. They won't turn out, even though they really should. Every time they just let themselves down.
The last party the young should vote for is the Labour Party.
Why on Earth would they vote Tory? Have you offered them a single appealing policy in the last 10 years, you just ignore them
The Tories need to do a better job of appealing to the young then, as most of them are not voting Tory. But to be honest I didn't think it was a priority since they mostly don't vote anyway. It is news to me that they'd even be trying to get votes from the young age group.
How the utterly clueless SNP gets the sycophantic level of coverage it continues to,get when it’s handling of the covid crisis has been pitiful is a mystery.
The Scottish Government looks less incompetent than the English one - especially if you choose to ignore the fact that it acted in almost complete lockstep with the rest of the UK throughout the peak of the crisis at least, and its epically awful record on care home deaths, and instead concentrate on the fact that Nicola Sturgeon comes across better than Boris Johnson on the telly.
Scotland was pants, but can advance a case that it was a bit less pants than the English. That's the main thing.
care home deaths were epically less than England if I remember correctly , disasterous non the less due to blindly following the London idiots and huge improvements when they took control and started doing it themselves.
A Labour LOTO chasing Tory voters to switch. Madness I tell you, madness.
These people live on another planet
Absolute idiots. The sooner all of them sod off and found another revolutionary socialist party to join the other alphabet soup of ludicrous organisations on the far left, the better. Preferably taking Corbyn and his cronies with him.
Do think it's a bit funny watching Tories tell us the SNP will collapse any day now, the same way Labourites say the Tories will collapse any day now
I have never said the SNP will collapse, indeed they will win big in 2021
However, it does not follow Independence will happen by a long chalk
In Northern Ireland there's still a substantial body of opinion that's emotionally attached to the Union. In Scotland that cohort is mainly elderly and in the process of shuffling off. In Wales there's a devosceptic movement that's as strong or stronger than the body of opinion that's in favour of independence. In Scotland, no significant such thing exists.
A Labour LOTO chasing Tory voters to switch. Madness I tell you, madness.
These people live on another planet
Absolute idiots. The sooner all of them sod off and found another revolutionary socialist party to join the other alphabet soup of ludicrous organisations on the far left, the better. Preferably taking Corbyn and his cronies with him.
They give people like me such a bad reputation. This is why people think I'm insane.
Keir Starmer would have been going for a second referendum had he been Labour leader in Dec 2019, I suppose. How would that have played out I wonder, given that Leave won a massive majority in terms of constituency seats in 2016?
Trouble is, if he goes for presiding over a sh*tshow, it rather exposes most of the others.
Exactly.
If a Cabinet Minister can get the sack, where will it end?
Even SPADs might be considered expendable...
Isabel Hardman in today’s Guardian/Observer - worth a read about the growing realisation among Tories that their government is f***ing this up bigtime.
My occasional reminder that I predict this government will be plumbing the depths in polling by next summer.
But why not now.
It amazes me that HMG polling has not collapsed
Though on exams the Scottish Government have debased their whole system for popularity but both the English and Welsh governments are in chaos not knowing how to find a fair and sensible way through and definitely not helped by the ridiculous Gavin Williamson
I think your missing the pulse of the public on this. You are hearing the cries of those affected but I`d wager that the majority are on the side of maintaining consistent standards across years (i.e. avoiding grade inflation). This populist government knows this and while I think a U Turn is possible I haven`t quite got to the point that I think it`s likely.
You may well be right
I just do not see how Starmer calling to debase the system, as in Scotland, is responsible
I would say it will not be forgotten that 2020 exam results were in the pandemic when students did not take actual exams, and that this must not be allowed ever to happen again
Nothing debased about Scotland G, they did the right thing and trusted the teachers rather than some totally bent algorithm. You diehard cult Tories would support them if they came in and murdered your family in front of you.
Malcolm, changing policy to ditch an algorithm that a fairly dim eight year old would have pointed out was flawed when it became obvious the alternative was massive unrest and their popularity collapsing is hardly ‘trusting the teachers rather than some totally bent algorithm.’
The fact Williamson is even more useless is not really an alibi.
massive unrest or a small dent in popularity ahead of an election? did anyone get sufficiently fed up to smash a window?
they get ever more popular and are doing it deliberately.
Oh goody, we're back to trying to get the young to vote. They won't turn out, even though they really should. Every time they just let themselves down.
The last party the young should vote for is the Labour Party.
Why on Earth would they vote Tory? Have you offered them a single appealing policy in the last 10 years, you just ignore them
1: Addressing the deficit. The deficit is a tax on the future, it is a tax on the young and future generations. Labour overspending burdens the young with the borrowing done for the old.
2: Houses. Under Labour home ownership rates went into decline and the youngest paid the brunt of this. The elderly who already owned their own home were secure but our generations burdened by Labour's imposition of tuition fees and then finding it harder to get on the property ladder were screwed. Under policies done under the Tories first in coalition and then on their own this has gone into reverse now, home ownership rates are picking back up again and it is the young who benefit the most from being able to get a mortgage and a home not spend generations renting.
Those are two mammoth, mammoth thing for the young. You need to think beyond a horizon of the next few weeks - the young will be around for decades and will be punished or benefit from the policies the most. Policies like Help to Buy and closing the deficit benefit the young more than anyone else.
The Tories need to do a better job of appealing to the young then, as most of them are not voting Tory. But to be honest I didn't think it was a priority since they mostly don't vote anyway. It is news to me that they'd even be trying to get votes from the young age group.
The young grow up and realise why they should vote Tory.
The Tories need to help the young grow up into the mature adults of the future.
Oh goody, we're back to trying to get the young to vote. They won't turn out, even though they really should. Every time they just let themselves down.
The last party the young should vote for is the Labour Party.
Why on Earth would they vote Tory? Have you offered them a single appealing policy in the last 10 years, you just ignore them
1: Addressing the deficit. The deficit is a tax on the future, it is a tax on the young and future generations. Labour overspending burdens the young with the borrowing done for the old.
2: Houses. Under Labour home ownership rates went into decline and the youngest paid the brunt of this. The elderly who already owned their own home were secure but our generations burdened by Labour's imposition of tuition fees and then finding it harder to get on the property ladder were screwed. Under policies done under the Tories first in coalition and then on their own this has gone into reverse now, home ownership rates are picking back up again and it is the young who benefit the most from being able to get a mortgage and a home not spend generations renting.
Those are two mammoth, mammoth thing for the young. You need to think beyond a horizon of the next few weeks - the young will be around for decades and will be punished or benefit from the policies the most. Policies like Help to Buy and closing the deficit benefit the young more than anyone else.
They've been going on about these things for 10 years, the young don't care about the deficit and the Tories have utterly failed to resolve housing issues so they don't believe the Tories there either.
Sounds awfully like you think the young are wrong for voting Labour, I wonder how that will go down with them?
The young are not going to vote Tory until you actually don't ignore them. You're doing a terrible job at present.
The Tories need to do a better job of appealing to the young then, as most of them are not voting Tory. But to be honest I didn't think it was a priority since they mostly don't vote anyway. It is news to me that they'd even be trying to get votes from the young age group.
The young grow up and realise why they should vote Tory.
The Tories need to help the young grow up into the mature adults of the future.
You're doing a piss poor job of appealing to them.
The Tories need to do a better job of appealing to the young then, as most of them are not voting Tory. But to be honest I didn't think it was a priority since they mostly don't vote anyway. It is news to me that they'd even be trying to get votes from the young age group.
The young grow up and realise why they should vote Tory.
The Tories need to help the young grow up into the mature adults of the future.
You're doing a piss poor job of appealing to them.
No we're not. Theresa May did a piss poor job, but the age at which people voted Tory went down massively in 2019.
Funny to see Philip saying/implying the young are wrong to vote Labour and then to see the same reaction when people say older people are wrong for voting Tory, the kind of visceral hatred that ensues.
I happen to think anyone saying you're wrong to vote for a party is not going to win any votes, you need to give people to vote for you. And the objective fact is the Tories don't appeal to the young and each election they seem to be getting worse.
My view is the Tories don't care, they don't come out to vote anyway so what's the point?
The Tories need to do a better job of appealing to the young then, as most of them are not voting Tory. But to be honest I didn't think it was a priority since they mostly don't vote anyway. It is news to me that they'd even be trying to get votes from the young age group.
The young grow up and realise why they should vote Tory.
The Tories need to help the young grow up into the mature adults of the future.
You're doing a piss poor job of appealing to them.
No we're not. Theresa May did a piss poor job, but the age at which people voted Tory went down massively in 2019.
It's not hard to see why the young don't vote Tory, they've been ignored and screwed over by the Tories since 2010 and I see no evidence whatsoever that is changing.
Brexit is also deeply, deeply unpopular with the young, so Johnson is onto a loser there too.
But as I keep saying, they don't vote in high enough numbers for it to make a difference. They do themselves a disservice.
Keir Starmer would have been going for a second referendum had he been Labour leader in Dec 2019, I suppose. How would that have played out I wonder, given that Leave won a massive majority in terms of constituency seats in 2016?
Better than Corbyn just because he's not Corbyn. Likely a smaller Johnson win.
Oh goody, we're back to trying to get the young to vote. They won't turn out, even though they really should. Every time they just let themselves down.
The last party the young should vote for is the Labour Party.
Why on Earth would they vote Tory? Have you offered them a single appealing policy in the last 10 years, you just ignore them
1: Addressing the deficit. The deficit is a tax on the future, it is a tax on the young and future generations. Labour overspending burdens the young with the borrowing done for the old.
2: Houses. Under Labour home ownership rates went into decline and the youngest paid the brunt of this. The elderly who already owned their own home were secure but our generations burdened by Labour's imposition of tuition fees and then finding it harder to get on the property ladder were screwed. Under policies done under the Tories first in coalition and then on their own this has gone into reverse now, home ownership rates are picking back up again and it is the young who benefit the most from being able to get a mortgage and a home not spend generations renting.
Those are two mammoth, mammoth thing for the young. You need to think beyond a horizon of the next few weeks - the young will be around for decades and will be punished or benefit from the policies the most. Policies like Help to Buy and closing the deficit benefit the young more than anyone else.
They've been going on about these things for 10 years, the young don't care about the deficit and the Tories have utterly failed to resolve housing issues so they don't believe the Tories there either.
Sounds awfully like you think the young are wrong for voting Labour, I wonder how that will go down with them?
The young are not going to vote Tory until you actually don't ignore them. You're doing a terrible job at present.
You seem to think the young will be young forever for some bizarre reason.
I voted Labour when I was 18 (2001). I quickly realised my error and haven't done so since.
The Tories do a great job at appealing to people as they grow up. The Tories have resolved housing issues such that home ownership rates are going up not down now, especially in the North. This is a prime reason why I think the red wall turned blue last year - and why I think despite Corbyn going and Brexit being "done" I think if the Tories continue to succeed on this basis the North can become more securely Tory too. Incidentally where home ownership rates are continuing to fall is eg London which is trending away from the Tories.
The single biggest factor as to why people vote is home ownership IMO. Those who want to or do own their own home are much more likely to vote Tory. Those who don't own their own home and feel they have no chance of doing so are far more likely to vote Labour. The young start off renting and with little in the way of investment in society and full of ideology and don't see through the Labour Party or realise the burden Labour wishes to place on them through borrowing etc.
The Tories need to continue doing what they are doing and help ensure the young of today are the successful adults of the future, not to stop people from being young in the first place.
Oh goody, we're back to trying to get the young to vote. They won't turn out, even though they really should. Every time they just let themselves down.
The last party the young should vote for is the Labour Party.
Why on Earth would they vote Tory? Have you offered them a single appealing policy in the last 10 years, you just ignore them
To get an hilarious comic funster in No 10. Kids love a clown!
Oh goody, we're back to trying to get the young to vote. They won't turn out, even though they really should. Every time they just let themselves down.
The last party the young should vote for is the Labour Party.
Why on Earth would they vote Tory? Have you offered them a single appealing policy in the last 10 years, you just ignore them
1: Addressing the deficit. The deficit is a tax on the future, it is a tax on the young and future generations. Labour overspending burdens the young with the borrowing done for the old.
2: Houses. Under Labour home ownership rates went into decline and the youngest paid the brunt of this. The elderly who already owned their own home were secure but our generations burdened by Labour's imposition of tuition fees and then finding it harder to get on the property ladder were screwed. Under policies done under the Tories first in coalition and then on their own this has gone into reverse now, home ownership rates are picking back up again and it is the young who benefit the most from being able to get a mortgage and a home not spend generations renting.
Those are two mammoth, mammoth thing for the young. You need to think beyond a horizon of the next few weeks - the young will be around for decades and will be punished or benefit from the policies the most. Policies like Help to Buy and closing the deficit benefit the young more than anyone else.
They've been going on about these things for 10 years, the young don't care about the deficit and the Tories have utterly failed to resolve housing issues so they don't believe the Tories there either.
Sounds awfully like you think the young are wrong for voting Labour, I wonder how that will go down with them?
The young are not going to vote Tory until you actually don't ignore them. You're doing a terrible job at present.
You seem to think the young will be young forever for some bizarre reason.
I voted Labour when I was 18 (2001). I quickly realised my error and haven't done so since.
The Tories do a great job at appealing to people as they grow up. The Tories have resolved housing issues such that home ownership rates are going up not down now, especially in the North. This is a prime reason why I think the red wall turned blue last year - and why I think despite Corbyn going and Brexit being "done" I think if the Tories continue to succeed on this basis the North can become more securely Tory too. Incidentally where home ownership rates are continuing to fall is eg London which is trending away from the Tories.
The single biggest factor as to why people vote is home ownership IMO. Those who want to or do own their own home are much more likely to vote Tory. Those who don't own their own home and feel they have no chance of doing so are far more likely to vote Labour. The young start off renting and with little in the way of investment in society and full of ideology and don't see through the Labour Party or realise the burden Labour wishes to place on them through borrowing etc.
The Tories need to continue doing what they are doing and help ensure the young of today are the successful adults of the future, not to stop people from being young in the first place.
This has literally nothing do with anything I said.
People vote Tory as they get older, I know that, that isn't what I was arguing. What I was arguing was that the Tories don't appeal to the young - and they don't.
The Tories are successful at winning elections, they don't win elections by appealing to young people. I don't see how this can even be up for debate.
Oh goody, we're back to trying to get the young to vote. They won't turn out, even though they really should. Every time they just let themselves down.
The last party the young should vote for is the Labour Party.
Why on Earth would they vote Tory? Have you offered them a single appealing policy in the last 10 years, you just ignore them
To get an hilarious comic funster in No 10. Kids love a clown!
The Tories need to do a better job of appealing to the young then, as most of them are not voting Tory. But to be honest I didn't think it was a priority since they mostly don't vote anyway. It is news to me that they'd even be trying to get votes from the young age group.
The young grow up and realise why they should vote Tory.
The Tories need to help the young grow up into the mature adults of the future.
You're doing a piss poor job of appealing to them.
No we're not. Theresa May did a piss poor job, but the age at which people voted Tory went down massively in 2019.
That's a 50% increase in the proportion of people voting Tory between 18-24 and 30-39, that's quite considerable. And the crossover age is 39 after that people are more likely to vote Tory and that crossover age is considerably down on last time.
Again this comes down to housing. 39 is the crossover point from memory where people are more likely to own their home than be renting and that is coming down - the Tories are long term doing an excellent job at appealing to the young for the long term. The young don't need trinkets, they need to be able to buy their own home in the reasonably near future.
The Tories need to do a better job of appealing to the young then, as most of them are not voting Tory. But to be honest I didn't think it was a priority since they mostly don't vote anyway. It is news to me that they'd even be trying to get votes from the young age group.
The young grow up and realise why they should vote Tory.
The Tories need to help the young grow up into the mature adults of the future.
You're doing a piss poor job of appealing to them.
No we're not. Theresa May did a piss poor job, but the age at which people voted Tory went down massively in 2019.
That's a 50% increase in the proportion of people voting Tory between 18-24 and 30-39, that's quite considerable. And the crossover age is 39 after that people are more likely to vote Tory and that crossover age is considerably down on last time.
Again this comes down to housing. 39 is the crossover point from memory where people are more likely to own their home than be renting and that is coming down - the Tories are long term doing an excellent job at appealing to the young for the long term. The young don't need trinkets, they need to be able to buy their own home in the reasonably near future.
As soon as you make housing affordable, perhaps more than 25% of people under the age of 30 might vote for you. Until then, you're fucked.
Do think it's a bit funny watching Tories tell us the SNP will collapse any day now, the same way Labourites say the Tories will collapse any day now
I have never said the SNP will collapse, indeed they will win big in 2021
However, it does not follow Independence will happen by a long chalk
In Northern Ireland there's still a substantial body of opinion that's emotionally attached to the Union. In Scotland that cohort is mainly elderly and in the process of shuffling off. In Wales there's a devosceptic movement that's as strong or stronger than the body of opinion that's in favour of independence. In Scotland, no significant such thing exists.
They're going. It's merely a matter of time.
Tottaly agree. Scotland is going I wish them all the best.
I genuinely can't believe it's even an argument the Tories appeal to young people. When 75% of people in the 18-24 age bracket vote against you and almost the same for 25-29, you cannot possibly conclude you appeal to the majority of them.
That is what I would consider young, 40 and above is not particularly young, it's not very old either but when I think of young people I think of people 18-30.
Oh goody, we're back to trying to get the young to vote. They won't turn out, even though they really should. Every time they just let themselves down.
The last party the young should vote for is the Labour Party.
Why on Earth would they vote Tory? Have you offered them a single appealing policy in the last 10 years, you just ignore them
To get an hilarious comic funster in No 10. Kids love a clown!
I take it all back, we love a car crash.
Well Quite, You've had warmonger Blair who is despised, then loony Brown, equally despised then ultra loony Corbyn.. who was even worse and thought of with revulsion... History repeats itself.
Oh goody, we're back to trying to get the young to vote. They won't turn out, even though they really should. Every time they just let themselves down.
The last party the young should vote for is the Labour Party.
Why on Earth would they vote Tory? Have you offered them a single appealing policy in the last 10 years, you just ignore them
1: Addressing the deficit. The deficit is a tax on the future, it is a tax on the young and future generations. Labour overspending burdens the young with the borrowing done for the old.
2: Houses. Under Labour home ownership rates went into decline and the youngest paid the brunt of this. The elderly who already owned their own home were secure but our generations burdened by Labour's imposition of tuition fees and then finding it harder to get on the property ladder were screwed. Under policies done under the Tories first in coalition and then on their own this has gone into reverse now, home ownership rates are picking back up again and it is the young who benefit the most from being able to get a mortgage and a home not spend generations renting.
Those are two mammoth, mammoth thing for the young. You need to think beyond a horizon of the next few weeks - the young will be around for decades and will be punished or benefit from the policies the most. Policies like Help to Buy and closing the deficit benefit the young more than anyone else.
They've been going on about these things for 10 years, the young don't care about the deficit and the Tories have utterly failed to resolve housing issues so they don't believe the Tories there either.
Sounds awfully like you think the young are wrong for voting Labour, I wonder how that will go down with them?
The young are not going to vote Tory until you actually don't ignore them. You're doing a terrible job at present.
You seem to think the young will be young forever for some bizarre reason.
I voted Labour when I was 18 (2001). I quickly realised my error and haven't done so since.
The Tories do a great job at appealing to people as they grow up. The Tories have resolved housing issues such that home ownership rates are going up not down now, especially in the North. This is a prime reason why I think the red wall turned blue last year - and why I think despite Corbyn going and Brexit being "done" I think if the Tories continue to succeed on this basis the North can become more securely Tory too. Incidentally where home ownership rates are continuing to fall is eg London which is trending away from the Tories.
The single biggest factor as to why people vote is home ownership IMO. Those who want to or do own their own home are much more likely to vote Tory. Those who don't own their own home and feel they have no chance of doing so are far more likely to vote Labour. The young start off renting and with little in the way of investment in society and full of ideology and don't see through the Labour Party or realise the burden Labour wishes to place on them through borrowing etc.
The Tories need to continue doing what they are doing and help ensure the young of today are the successful adults of the future, not to stop people from being young in the first place.
This has literally nothing do with anything I said.
People vote Tory as they get older, I know that, that isn't what I was arguing. What I was arguing was that the Tories don't appeal to the young - and they don't.
The Tories are successful at winning elections, they don't win elections by appealing to young people. I don't see how this can even be up for debate.
The Tories win over the young by progressing them through life. The young benefit from the Tories more than they benefit from Labour, they just don't realise that when they are young.
Labour have no incentive to help the young get onto the property ladder. Labour keep the young impoverished as that keeps them voting Labour. Same as northerners.
The Tories help people progress through life and build something up. That doesn't make them vote for them now, but it does make them vote for them afterwards.
Sort out the housing crisis you've failed to resolve for 10 years, we can talk then. I'll be here waiting.
Failed? Define fail or success please.
Home ownership rates under Labour were going down.
Home ownership rates now under the Tories are going up.
The age at which people can buy their first home are going down.
That is a success to me not a failure. More of the same needed please.
I cannot afford a house (specifically the deposit), even though I earn a decent salary and I do not come from a poor background. When I can afford a house without needing money from my parents, or relatives, then we can re-visit the matter.
Surely the PB Tories have somehow way to explain away the SNP likely winning a majority in a PR election and also 58/59 seats in the next GE. There must be a CCHQ script for this
The Tories need to do a better job of appealing to the young then, as most of them are not voting Tory. But to be honest I didn't think it was a priority since they mostly don't vote anyway. It is news to me that they'd even be trying to get votes from the young age group.
The young grow up and realise why they should vote Tory.
The Tories need to help the young grow up into the mature adults of the future.
You're doing a piss poor job of appealing to them.
No we're not. Theresa May did a piss poor job, but the age at which people voted Tory went down massively in 2019.
That's a 50% increase in the proportion of people voting Tory between 18-24 and 30-39, that's quite considerable. And the crossover age is 39 after that people are more likely to vote Tory and that crossover age is considerably down on last time.
Again this comes down to housing. 39 is the crossover point from memory where people are more likely to own their home than be renting and that is coming down - the Tories are long term doing an excellent job at appealing to the young for the long term. The young don't need trinkets, they need to be able to buy their own home in the reasonably near future.
As soon as you make housing affordable, perhaps more than 25% of people under the age of 30 might vote for you. Until then, you're fucked.
But housing is becoming more affordable which is why more people are getting a mortgage at an earlier and earlier age so being able to be owner occupiers of the future. Hence why people are voting Tory at a younger age.
If people can own their own home by the age of 39 (and getting younger) then we're not fucked, that's a good thing.
As for this generations thirty-somethings (of which I am one myself), we will be the fourty-somethings of the relatively near future. Getting us onto the property ladder is the long-term most important thing the government should be helping to ensure is possible.
Sort out the housing crisis you've failed to resolve for 10 years, we can talk then. I'll be here waiting.
Failed? Define fail or success please.
Home ownership rates under Labour were going down.
Home ownership rates now under the Tories are going up.
The age at which people can buy their first home are going down.
That is a success to me not a failure. More of the same needed please.
I cannot afford a house (specifically the deposit), even though I earn a decent salary and I do not come from a poor background. When I can afford a house without needing money from my parents, or relatives, then we can re-visit the matter.
I am not alone.
Hopefully within the next decade you can. That is the most important issue for the government to deal with. Schemes like Help To Buy etc are a tremendous success for this across the North which is why the red wall turned blue I think. People like you being able to get their own home, hopefully you can soon too.
Do think it's a bit funny watching Tories tell us the SNP will collapse any day now, the same way Labourites say the Tories will collapse any day now
I have never said the SNP will collapse, indeed they will win big in 2021
However, it does not follow Independence will happen by a long chalk
In Northern Ireland there's still a substantial body of opinion that's emotionally attached to the Union. In Scotland that cohort is mainly elderly and in the process of shuffling off. In Wales there's a devosceptic movement that's as strong or stronger than the body of opinion that's in favour of independence. In Scotland, no significant such thing exists.
They're going. It's merely a matter of time.
Correct , only over 65's are now over 50% for union, it will not be long.
The Tories need to do a better job of appealing to the young then, as most of them are not voting Tory. But to be honest I didn't think it was a priority since they mostly don't vote anyway. It is news to me that they'd even be trying to get votes from the young age group.
The young grow up and realise why they should vote Tory.
The Tories need to help the young grow up into the mature adults of the future.
You're doing a piss poor job of appealing to them.
No we're not. Theresa May did a piss poor job, but the age at which people voted Tory went down massively in 2019.
That's a 50% increase in the proportion of people voting Tory between 18-24 and 30-39, that's quite considerable. And the crossover age is 39 after that people are more likely to vote Tory and that crossover age is considerably down on last time.
Again this comes down to housing. 39 is the crossover point from memory where people are more likely to own their home than be renting and that is coming down - the Tories are long term doing an excellent job at appealing to the young for the long term. The young don't need trinkets, they need to be able to buy their own home in the reasonably near future.
As soon as you make housing affordable, perhaps more than 25% of people under the age of 30 might vote for you. Until then, you're fucked.
But housing is becoming more affordable which is why more people are getting a mortgage at an earlier and earlier age so being able to be owner occupiers of the future. Hence why people are voting Tory at a younger age.
If people can own their own home by the age of 39 (and getting younger) then we're not fucked, that's a good thing.
As for this generations thirty-somethings (of which I am one myself), we will be the fourty-somethings of the relatively near future. Getting us onto the property ladder is the long-term most important thing the government should be helping to ensure is possible.
Just wait until you're 39 to buy a house is not changing my mind here Philip. Must try harder.
When you've made people in their 20s have affordable houses they can buy without parental assistance, please do come back to me.
Sort out the housing crisis you've failed to resolve for 10 years, we can talk then. I'll be here waiting.
Failed? Define fail or success please.
Home ownership rates under Labour were going down.
Home ownership rates now under the Tories are going up.
The age at which people can buy their first home are going down.
That is a success to me not a failure. More of the same needed please.
I cannot afford a house (specifically the deposit), even though I earn a decent salary and I do not come from a poor background. When I can afford a house without needing money from my parents, or relatives, then we can re-visit the matter.
I am not alone.
Hopefully within the next decade you can. That is the most important issue for the government to deal with. Schemes like Help To Buy etc are a tremendous success for this across the North which is why the red wall turned blue I think. People like you being able to get their own home, hopefully you can soon too.
"Within the next decade" - why not next year? Why not in two years?
Wait ten years is not appealing to me whatsoever. You're doing badly here Philip, very badly.
You've had 10 years to sort this out and you have failed. Wait another decade, nah I'll stick with Labour thanks.
Surely the PB Tories have somehow way to explain away the SNP likely winning a majority in a PR election and also 58/59 seats in the next GE. There must be a CCHQ script for this
Channelling HYUFD and similar.
'English people voted for No to Indy Ref II in 2019 so there will be no indy Ref II'
Sort out the housing crisis you've failed to resolve for 10 years, we can talk then. I'll be here waiting.
Failed? Define fail or success please.
Home ownership rates under Labour were going down.
Home ownership rates now under the Tories are going up.
The age at which people can buy their first home are going down.
That is a success to me not a failure. More of the same needed please.
I cannot afford a house (specifically the deposit), even though I earn a decent salary and I do not come from a poor background. When I can afford a house without needing money from my parents, or relatives, then we can re-visit the matter.
I am not alone.
Hopefully within the next decade you can. That is the most important issue for the government to deal with. Schemes like Help To Buy etc are a tremendous success for this across the North which is why the red wall turned blue I think. People like you being able to get their own home, hopefully you can soon too.
"Within the next decade" - why not next year? Why not in two years?
Wait ten years is not appealing to me whatsoever. You're doing badly here Philip, very badly.
You've had 10 years to sort this out and you have failed. Wait another decade, nah I'll stick with Labour thanks.
Phillip will be telling us all next Robert Jenrick is a good honest housing minister,
Oh goody, we're back to trying to get the young to vote. They won't turn out, even though they really should. Every time they just let themselves down.
To say the government has taken no action on the "climate crisis" is simpy a lie. The UK, amazingly enough, is make very rapid progess in adopting renewable energy, and most of that action has taken place under Conservative governments. It's also a remarkably non-partisan issue here, no party is proposing any reversal.
Mike cites a poll on the day of the Election as the basis to disregard the view that Labour's stance on Brexit cost then last year's GE
Maybe
You could look at
(a) UKIP winning the 2014 Euro Elections (b) The Conservatives offering a referendum in 2015 and gertting a majority vs Labour and Lib Dems refusing one, with UKIP getting 13% on top of that (c) Leave winning the 2016 referendum (d) Labour depriving the Tories of a majority in 2017 when they accepted the that we had to Leave (e)The Brexit Party winning the 2019 Euro Elections when parliament was refusing to implement the result (f) The Tories wininng an 80 seat majority when they said they'd get Brexit done, vs Labour and Lib Dem 2nd Ref
The Tories need to do a better job of appealing to the young then, as most of them are not voting Tory. But to be honest I didn't think it was a priority since they mostly don't vote anyway. It is news to me that they'd even be trying to get votes from the young age group.
The young grow up and realise why they should vote Tory.
The Tories need to help the young grow up into the mature adults of the future.
You're doing a piss poor job of appealing to them.
No we're not. Theresa May did a piss poor job, but the age at which people voted Tory went down massively in 2019.
That's a 50% increase in the proportion of people voting Tory between 18-24 and 30-39, that's quite considerable. And the crossover age is 39 after that people are more likely to vote Tory and that crossover age is considerably down on last time.
Again this comes down to housing. 39 is the crossover point from memory where people are more likely to own their home than be renting and that is coming down - the Tories are long term doing an excellent job at appealing to the young for the long term. The young don't need trinkets, they need to be able to buy their own home in the reasonably near future.
As soon as you make housing affordable, perhaps more than 25% of people under the age of 30 might vote for you. Until then, you're fucked.
Housing wont be affordable as long as we build less houses than the population increase. You favour population increase and argue for it. To catch up we would need need to build roughly 500,000 houses every year for the next 10 to 20 years then continue to build around 200k homes a year to keep pace
The Tories need to do a better job of appealing to the young then, as most of them are not voting Tory. But to be honest I didn't think it was a priority since they mostly don't vote anyway. It is news to me that they'd even be trying to get votes from the young age group.
The young grow up and realise why they should vote Tory.
The Tories need to help the young grow up into the mature adults of the future.
You're doing a piss poor job of appealing to them.
No we're not. Theresa May did a piss poor job, but the age at which people voted Tory went down massively in 2019.
That's a 50% increase in the proportion of people voting Tory between 18-24 and 30-39, that's quite considerable. And the crossover age is 39 after that people are more likely to vote Tory and that crossover age is considerably down on last time.
Again this comes down to housing. 39 is the crossover point from memory where people are more likely to own their home than be renting and that is coming down - the Tories are long term doing an excellent job at appealing to the young for the long term. The young don't need trinkets, they need to be able to buy their own home in the reasonably near future.
As soon as you make housing affordable, perhaps more than 25% of people under the age of 30 might vote for you. Until then, you're fucked.
Housing wont be affordable as long as we build less houses than the population increase. You favour population increase and argue for it. To catch up we would need need to build roughly 500,000 houses every year for the next 10 to 20 years then continue to build around 200k homes a year to keep pace
Comments
Quite an amazing survey on public attitudes if there’s no Covid vaccine or treatment. Come on Britain get a grip. You’re all obsessed with the algorithm used to determine exam results but it seems the majority no longer think school is even important enough to even bother with.
Life is a risky activity with a 100% risk of dying from it. But there’s a danger that not everyone is going to actually truly live before they die.
Looking at the final pages, I suggest the cancellation of furlough and a ratchet down of the state pension for however long there are restrictions in place might start to do the trick.
Ian Lavery there, who has added absolutely nothing of use, probably ever
When Corbyn left, we were 20 POINTS BEHIND. What planet are these people living on
Though some interesting comments here
https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/aberdeen/2110840/professor-hugh-pennington-on-the-parallels-between-typhoid-and-coronavirus/
05/08/2020, 9:15 am
'Aberdeen professor would be ‘very surprised’ if city hit by local lockdown'
05/08/2020, 6:18 pm
'Professor backs Covid-19 lockdown in Aberdeen'
Oh goody, we're back to trying to get the young to vote. They won't turn out, even though they really should. Every time they just let themselves down.
You should try it sometime....
A Labour LOTO chasing Tory voters to switch. Madness I tell you, madness.
The simple solution is for Rishi to phone around the vice-chancellors tomorrow morning and stuff their mouths with gold until they relent. Which they will surely do, after a nanosecond's hesitation about declining academic standards. Most of the students will get into the university of their choice and in the fulness of time will get the degree they deserve.
The idea of retaking A-levels in October is unduly complex and creates more problems than it solves. Easier by far to cut the Gordian knot using money borrowed from future graduates.
Scotland was pants, but can advance a case that it was a bit less pants than the English. That's the main thing.
However, it does not follow Independence will happen by a long chalk
They're going. It's merely a matter of time.
2: Houses. Under Labour home ownership rates went into decline and the youngest paid the brunt of this. The elderly who already owned their own home were secure but our generations burdened by Labour's imposition of tuition fees and then finding it harder to get on the property ladder were screwed. Under policies done under the Tories first in coalition and then on their own this has gone into reverse now, home ownership rates are picking back up again and it is the young who benefit the most from being able to get a mortgage and a home not spend generations renting.
Those are two mammoth, mammoth thing for the young. You need to think beyond a horizon of the next few weeks - the young will be around for decades and will be punished or benefit from the policies the most. Policies like Help to Buy and closing the deficit benefit the young more than anyone else.
The Tories need to help the young grow up into the mature adults of the future.
Sounds awfully like you think the young are wrong for voting Labour, I wonder how that will go down with them?
The young are not going to vote Tory until you actually don't ignore them. You're doing a terrible job at present.
I happen to think anyone saying you're wrong to vote for a party is not going to win any votes, you need to give people to vote for you. And the objective fact is the Tories don't appeal to the young and each election they seem to be getting worse.
My view is the Tories don't care, they don't come out to vote anyway so what's the point?
25-29: 23% Tory
30-39: 30% Tory
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/12/17/how-britain-voted-2019-general-election
You're doing a piss poor job.
Brexit is also deeply, deeply unpopular with the young, so Johnson is onto a loser there too.
But as I keep saying, they don't vote in high enough numbers for it to make a difference. They do themselves a disservice.
I voted Labour when I was 18 (2001). I quickly realised my error and haven't done so since.
The Tories do a great job at appealing to people as they grow up. The Tories have resolved housing issues such that home ownership rates are going up not down now, especially in the North. This is a prime reason why I think the red wall turned blue last year - and why I think despite Corbyn going and Brexit being "done" I think if the Tories continue to succeed on this basis the North can become more securely Tory too. Incidentally where home ownership rates are continuing to fall is eg London which is trending away from the Tories.
The single biggest factor as to why people vote is home ownership IMO. Those who want to or do own their own home are much more likely to vote Tory. Those who don't own their own home and feel they have no chance of doing so are far more likely to vote Labour. The young start off renting and with little in the way of investment in society and full of ideology and don't see through the Labour Party or realise the burden Labour wishes to place on them through borrowing etc.
The Tories need to continue doing what they are doing and help ensure the young of today are the successful adults of the future, not to stop people from being young in the first place.
In no line of work should this be considered acceptable.
People vote Tory as they get older, I know that, that isn't what I was arguing. What I was arguing was that the Tories don't appeal to the young - and they don't.
The Tories are successful at winning elections, they don't win elections by appealing to young people. I don't see how this can even be up for debate.
Again this comes down to housing. 39 is the crossover point from memory where people are more likely to own their home than be renting and that is coming down - the Tories are long term doing an excellent job at appealing to the young for the long term. The young don't need trinkets, they need to be able to buy their own home in the reasonably near future.
Delaying GCSE results means admitting OFQUAL screwed up and that would be awkward now...
Scotland is going I wish them all the best.
That is what I would consider young, 40 and above is not particularly young, it's not very old either but when I think of young people I think of people 18-30.
Labour have no incentive to help the young get onto the property ladder. Labour keep the young impoverished as that keeps them voting Labour. Same as northerners.
The Tories help people progress through life and build something up. That doesn't make them vote for them now, but it does make them vote for them afterwards.
Perhaps they'll all leave the party soon.
Home ownership rates under Labour were going down.
Home ownership rates now under the Tories are going up.
The age at which people can buy their first home are going down.
That is a success to me not a failure. More of the same needed please.
I suppose there's a chance Labour could take second place
I am not alone.
If people can own their own home by the age of 39 (and getting younger) then we're not fucked, that's a good thing.
As for this generations thirty-somethings (of which I am one myself), we will be the fourty-somethings of the relatively near future. Getting us onto the property ladder is the long-term most important thing the government should be helping to ensure is possible.
When you've made people in their 20s have affordable houses they can buy without parental assistance, please do come back to me.
Wait ten years is not appealing to me whatsoever. You're doing badly here Philip, very badly.
You've had 10 years to sort this out and you have failed. Wait another decade, nah I'll stick with Labour thanks.
b) She's not Scottish Tory Leader.
https://twitter.com/kateferguson4/status/1294952931066863617?s=20
'English people voted for No to Indy Ref II in 2019 so there will be no indy Ref II'
This is absolutely superb.
Maybe
You could look at
(a) UKIP winning the 2014 Euro Elections
(b) The Conservatives offering a referendum in 2015 and gertting a majority vs Labour and Lib Dems refusing one, with UKIP getting 13% on top of that
(c) Leave winning the 2016 referendum
(d) Labour depriving the Tories of a majority in 2017 when they accepted the that we had to Leave
(e)The Brexit Party winning the 2019 Euro Elections when parliament was refusing to implement the result
(f) The Tories wininng an 80 seat majority when they said they'd get Brexit done, vs Labour and Lib Dem 2nd Ref
and come to a different conclusion, and I do