Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Team Biden now says he won’t be announcing his VP choice until

1235

Comments

  • Options
    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328

    Interesting: looks like Maine and Nebraska split their EC vote rather than being winner takes all.
    Yes, they both give two EC votes to statewide election (to match their number of Senators), and one EC vote per congressional district (to match their number of Representatives).

    https://www.270towin.com/content/split-electoral-votes-maine-and-nebraska/
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388

    @ydoethur http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/constituencies/uk-parliament/plymouth-moor-view interesting.

    Trending away since 2015, when the majority was only 1026. What has happened there?

    Labour's malaise among the WWC, and Johnny Mercer, I suspect are the biggest two factors
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274
    An interesting and relevant read about Land Value Taxation and the possibility of Sunak toying with it:

    https://unherd.com/2020/08/its-time-the-tories-got-tough-on-landlords/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,995
    TOPPING said:

    I wonder what proportion of the reduced attendance of hospitals is people who need to go to hospitals not going . . . and what proportion is hypochondriacs deciding they have something better to do.

    In the past when I've waited in A&E I've often felt the majority of people there didn't really need to be there.

    They were looking at you thinking exactly the same thing.

    "Often felt" - how many times have you been to A&E?
    10,000 doctrinaire posts/week extract a terrible toll in carpal tunnel syndrome.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited August 2020
    TOPPING said:

    I wonder what proportion of the reduced attendance of hospitals is people who need to go to hospitals not going . . . and what proportion is hypochondriacs deciding they have something better to do.

    In the past when I've waited in A&E I've often felt the majority of people there didn't really need to be there.

    They were looking at you thinking exactly the same thing.

    "Often felt" - how many times have you been to A&E?
    Four times in the past decade. All pregnancy/child related.

    Once my wife was very pregnant, she fell over on black ice hitting her stomach and couldn't feel the baby kick afterwards. We called her midwife and were told to go immediately to A&E. We were asked questions on arrival including could she feel the baby kick ("No") and we then sat there for just under 4 hours. When the doctor finally came to speak to us the triage nurse had incorrectly written yes to the baby kicking on the notes. Eventually got taken through and they found a fetal heartbeat.

    About two years later as a toddler our daughter fell down the stairs tumbling from the top to the bottom of the stairs. We took her immediately to A&E, were advised to go straight to a children's unit and were seen immediately by a paediatrician. She was OK.

    Third time our daughter while climbing on the couch jumped off it and hit her head which immediately swelled up. Called 111 and told to go to A&E because it was a head injury. Waited about six hours, she got a check up and was OK.

    Finally our second daughter accidentally dislocated her hand/wrist. Took her to A&E, waited about five hours. Doctor "popped" it back in and she was OK.

    I've had colleagues in the past who'd go in fortnightly to monthly it seemed.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,191

    @ydoethur http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/constituencies/uk-parliament/plymouth-moor-view interesting.

    Trending away since 2015, when the majority was only 1026. What has happened there?

    I honestly don’t know! As I have demonstrated I thought it was marginal.

    I would guess, but I could be completely wrong, that it’s where most of the Royal Navy have their shore homes, and that Corbyn’s pacifism didn’t play too well. Labour’s vote went down in Plymouth Sutton and Devonport as well, although not as catastrophically.

    Labour’s vote absolutely cratered in Taunton Deane as well, and was down in Bath. Equally, however, it rose in Portsmouth South.
  • Options
    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328

    MaxPB said:

    TimT said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I wonder what proportion of the reduced attendance of hospitals is people who need to go to hospitals not going . . . and what proportion is hypochondriacs deciding they have something better to do.

    In the past when I've waited in A&E I've often felt the majority of people there didn't really need to be there.

    But it's not just A&E that's running at below capacity, it's everything including oncology.
    Indeed, oncology being down is very worrying.

    I'm not suggesting that all the decrease is non-worrying, but not all of the decrease is worrying either. Some of the decrease is people being more careful (or less driving or less drunk) and fewer accidents, some of it is fewer hypochondriacs going out . . . but much of it is what should be going on like oncology.

    There should be an awareness campaign going on for cancer awareness. I think that's the biggest concern of them all.
    It's not just cancer though, there's a whole host of routine procedures that are being put off or going undiagnosed because people don't want to go to hospital. The person with undiagnosed high cholesterol is at risk of a stroke, that's as serious as it gets.
    Or even a stomach ulcer that goes untreated too long.
    Exactly, cancer is just one of the serious health conditions currently going untreated or undetected because the government has sacrificed all other public health priorities for the virus. It's going to end very badly unless there is a serious rethink of policy.
    Question for PB's Foreign Correspondents; how are other (dare one say, better run) health systems responding to this question? Unfortunately, I can see a chain which goes UK running Covid control relatively hot --> a bit less general medical capacity and a bit more fear --> other illnesses bubbling up as well.
    This is a global problem with all acute health crises. We saw exactly the same with Ebola in West Africa - treatments of everything else, particularly other fever-inducing infections such as HIV and malaria, suffered considerably until the Ebola outbreak was over.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274
    felix said:

    https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-08-03/why-does-italy-have-fewer-new-covid-19-cases-than-spain.html?ssm=FB_CM_EN&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR2X6EIlo2L6vOf-kMpkMIOMK60Rd8EV854MU5RM6p_ksmBcoFKE56PrfdQ#Echobox=1596451698

    Why does Italy have fewer new Covid-19 cases than Spain?
    Since the Italian government eased lockdown restrictions, the country has been reporting an average of 200 daily infections, while Spanish authorities are recording more than 1,500

    We have a large outbreak in the tourist town near me - all located at 3 discos where the social distancing was inadequate. The authorities have no clue what to do and display extraordinary ignorance when trying to reassure people:
    ' no transmission from staff to clients' - 24 hours after recording 31 positives and while testing is still ongoing!

    More than ever convinced the UK action last week was spot on. My only caveat being there should have been no non-essential foreign travel at all this year. Total hostage to fortune.

    The impression I get - and I will have a better idea if my trip next month goes ahead - is that the severity of the localised crisis in Northern Italy at the beginning of the crisis, with people being left to die outside hospitals and the rest - has been such a shock to the country and made the threat of the virus seem very real, such that most Italians are still going above and beyond in terms of restricting contact with others. If so a surprise, given their usual character and culture.

    In the UK we’ve had more pain but spread more evenly over time and across the country, which hasn’t made the same imprint on our psychology.
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    @ydoethur http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/constituencies/uk-parliament/plymouth-moor-view interesting.

    Trending away since 2015, when the majority was only 1026. What has happened there?

    I honestly don’t know! As I have demonstrated I thought it was marginal.

    I would guess, but I could be completely wrong, that it’s where most of the Royal Navy have their shore homes, and that Corbyn’s pacifism didn’t play too well. Labour’s vote went down in Plymouth Sutton and Devonport as well, although not as catastrophically.

    Labour’s vote absolutely cratered in Taunton Deane as well, and was down in Bath. Equally, however, it rose in Portsmouth South.
    Well I think you would hope Labour might recover some then, with a leader who is not Corbyn.

    I do think in these very marginal Brexit-voting seats, Corbyn was the factor that sealed the deal for many voters.

    I would expect Starmer will win some back just by not being Corbyn.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    MaxPB said:

    Had a long chat with a cousin yesterday at a family picnic, he's a very high up at a major London trust. He basically said that the NHS is currently operating at 10-20% in London depending on the specific trust and he thinks people are going to die because the government pushed the messaging of "save the NHS" too hard early on and are still doing it which is putting people off from getting care for potentially life-threatening conditions. On the virus itself, he said his hospital and the surrounding ones haven't had a new case in about two weeks and the number of active cases are fairly small and confined to a single ward with no crossover in staffing and they are thinking of consolidating all existing London cases at a single trust and declaring the rest of the hospitals COVID-free to encourage patients to come back.

    He also said there is no sign of a second wave in terms of hospital admissions for them and they haven't picked up any additional suspected cases in their A&E. He's definitely of the opinion that the government needs to rethink the whole strategy of sacrificing all public health initiatives at the altar of the virus, especially now that we haven't got the same hospital caseload as before and there is spare capacity.

    I had a course of treatment postponed by the lockdown, but they phoned my at the beginning of June to go and get it finished. The hospital seemed pretty empty, but I go in at aside entrance to get to the ward I need so it was hard to compare. I also get the impression that they are prioritising cancer treatment.
    I've had a surgeon's office call me about a small, non-urgent procedure that was postponed from March. I think in the US, surgeons are eager to get more work as patients are not so keen to go to hospitals even now elective procedures are permitted.
    I’ve picked up a few hospital acquired infections in my time (although usually from what I would call invasive procedures) so I can certainly understand why people are avoiding hospitals unless they absolutely have to go.
    Nosocomial infections kill around 100k in the US per year ...
    I had pneumonia last year and it was described as “community acquired”: that is they have a special category for those illnesses not picked up in hospital...
    I was told by one senior medical type, that a major reason behind the modern emphasis on getting people out of hospital quickly, is the risk of picking up infections.
    And the realisation that most patients recover faster if they are pushed back toward normal activity rather than the old assumption of bed rest. And straightforward economics, of course.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,295

    TOPPING said:

    I wonder what proportion of the reduced attendance of hospitals is people who need to go to hospitals not going . . . and what proportion is hypochondriacs deciding they have something better to do.

    In the past when I've waited in A&E I've often felt the majority of people there didn't really need to be there.

    They were looking at you thinking exactly the same thing.

    "Often felt" - how many times have you been to A&E?
    Four times in the past decade. All pregnancy/child related.

    Once my wife was very pregnant, she fell over on black ice hitting her stomach and couldn't feel the baby kick afterwards. We called her midwife and were told to go immediately to A&E. We were asked questions on arrival including could she feel the baby kick ("No") and we then sat there for just under 4 hours. When the doctor finally came to speak to us the triage nurse had incorrectly written yes to the baby kicking on the notes. Eventually got taken through and they found a fetal heartbeat.

    About two years later as a toddler our daughter fell down the stairs tumbling from the top to the bottom of the stairs. We took her immediately to A&E, were advised to go straight to a children's unit and were seen immediately by a paediatrician. She was OK.

    Third time our daughter while climbing on the couch jumped off it and hit her head which immediately swelled up. Called 111 and told to go to A&E because it was a head injury. Waited about six hours, she got a check up and was OK.

    Finally our second daughter accidentally dislocated her hand/wrist. Took her to A&E, waited about five hours. Doctor "popped" it back in and she was OK.

    I've had colleagues in the past who'd go in fortnightly to monthly it seemed.
    Some very scary stuff in there but not all slam dunk reasons to be in A&E to someone sitting across the room, I presume?
  • Options
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taunton_Deane_(UK_Parliament_constituency) @ydoethur

    One of those ones where the LD destruction in 2015 has made it safe Tory.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,376
    IanB2 said:

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    MaxPB said:

    Had a long chat with a cousin yesterday at a family picnic, he's a very high up at a major London trust. He basically said that the NHS is currently operating at 10-20% in London depending on the specific trust and he thinks people are going to die because the government pushed the messaging of "save the NHS" too hard early on and are still doing it which is putting people off from getting care for potentially life-threatening conditions. On the virus itself, he said his hospital and the surrounding ones haven't had a new case in about two weeks and the number of active cases are fairly small and confined to a single ward with no crossover in staffing and they are thinking of consolidating all existing London cases at a single trust and declaring the rest of the hospitals COVID-free to encourage patients to come back.

    He also said there is no sign of a second wave in terms of hospital admissions for them and they haven't picked up any additional suspected cases in their A&E. He's definitely of the opinion that the government needs to rethink the whole strategy of sacrificing all public health initiatives at the altar of the virus, especially now that we haven't got the same hospital caseload as before and there is spare capacity.

    I had a course of treatment postponed by the lockdown, but they phoned my at the beginning of June to go and get it finished. The hospital seemed pretty empty, but I go in at aside entrance to get to the ward I need so it was hard to compare. I also get the impression that they are prioritising cancer treatment.
    I've had a surgeon's office call me about a small, non-urgent procedure that was postponed from March. I think in the US, surgeons are eager to get more work as patients are not so keen to go to hospitals even now elective procedures are permitted.
    I’ve picked up a few hospital acquired infections in my time (although usually from what I would call invasive procedures) so I can certainly understand why people are avoiding hospitals unless they absolutely have to go.
    Nosocomial infections kill around 100k in the US per year ...
    I had pneumonia last year and it was described as “community acquired”: that is they have a special category for those illnesses not picked up in hospital...
    I was told by one senior medical type, that a major reason behind the modern emphasis on getting people out of hospital quickly, is the risk of picking up infections.
    And the realisation that most patients recover faster if they are pushed back toward normal activity rather than the old assumption of bed rest. And straightforward economics, of course.
    I understand it is a mixture of all three. The one about not picking up other infections is not often emphasised though.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    TOPPING said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TOPPING said:

    Oh and the govt's eat out to help out initiative coming at exactly the same time as its let's all lose weight initiative is vying with we have a 5-point scale and we're on 3.5 as the most totally moronic and risible thing it's done and it's a low bar.

    Let them eat cake.
    Gluten-free?
    Glutton free!
  • Options
    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    MaxPB said:

    Had a long chat with a cousin yesterday at a family picnic, he's a very high up at a major London trust. He basically said that the NHS is currently operating at 10-20% in London depending on the specific trust and he thinks people are going to die because the government pushed the messaging of "save the NHS" too hard early on and are still doing it which is putting people off from getting care for potentially life-threatening conditions. On the virus itself, he said his hospital and the surrounding ones haven't had a new case in about two weeks and the number of active cases are fairly small and confined to a single ward with no crossover in staffing and they are thinking of consolidating all existing London cases at a single trust and declaring the rest of the hospitals COVID-free to encourage patients to come back.

    He also said there is no sign of a second wave in terms of hospital admissions for them and they haven't picked up any additional suspected cases in their A&E. He's definitely of the opinion that the government needs to rethink the whole strategy of sacrificing all public health initiatives at the altar of the virus, especially now that we haven't got the same hospital caseload as before and there is spare capacity.

    I had a course of treatment postponed by the lockdown, but they phoned my at the beginning of June to go and get it finished. The hospital seemed pretty empty, but I go in at aside entrance to get to the ward I need so it was hard to compare. I also get the impression that they are prioritising cancer treatment.
    I've had a surgeon's office call me about a small, non-urgent procedure that was postponed from March. I think in the US, surgeons are eager to get more work as patients are not so keen to go to hospitals even now elective procedures are permitted.
    I’ve picked up a few hospital acquired infections in my time (although usually from what I would call invasive procedures) so I can certainly understand why people are avoiding hospitals unless they absolutely have to go.
    Nosocomial infections kill around 100k in the US per year ...
    I had pneumonia last year and it was described as “community acquired”: that is they have a special category for those illnesses not picked up in hospital...
    I was told by one senior medical type, that a major reason behind the modern emphasis on getting people out of hospital quickly, is the risk of picking up infections.
    Operations are now often done as day cases. I have spent fewer nights in hospital than I have had general anaesthetics.
    In the US, many (most?) operations are not done in hospitals, but in surgery centres - so walk in, walk out same day.
    Two of my day case tests under GA turned into ops and I ended up staying the night on a ward (indeed the right ward for my particular problem). How easy is that from a surgery center?
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited August 2020
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    I wonder what proportion of the reduced attendance of hospitals is people who need to go to hospitals not going . . . and what proportion is hypochondriacs deciding they have something better to do.

    In the past when I've waited in A&E I've often felt the majority of people there didn't really need to be there.

    They were looking at you thinking exactly the same thing.

    "Often felt" - how many times have you been to A&E?
    Four times in the past decade. All pregnancy/child related.

    Once my wife was very pregnant, she fell over on black ice hitting her stomach and couldn't feel the baby kick afterwards. We called her midwife and were told to go immediately to A&E. We were asked questions on arrival including could she feel the baby kick ("No") and we then sat there for just under 4 hours. When the doctor finally came to speak to us the triage nurse had incorrectly written yes to the baby kicking on the notes. Eventually got taken through and they found a fetal heartbeat.

    About two years later as a toddler our daughter fell down the stairs tumbling from the top to the bottom of the stairs. We took her immediately to A&E, were advised to go straight to a children's unit and were seen immediately by a paediatrician. She was OK.

    Third time our daughter while climbing on the couch jumped off it and hit her head which immediately swelled up. Called 111 and told to go to A&E because it was a head injury. Waited about six hours, she got a check up and was OK.

    Finally our second daughter accidentally dislocated her hand/wrist. Took her to A&E, waited about five hours. Doctor "popped" it back in and she was OK.

    I've had colleagues in the past who'd go in fortnightly to monthly it seemed.
    Some very scary stuff in there but not all slam dunk reasons to be in A&E to someone sitting across the room, I presume?
    No, but when I was there the first time when she couldn't feel the baby kick I was sat near the entrance desk so could hear the reasons given on arrival and many to me did not seem to be either accidents or emergencies, never was the patient told "go home and call your GP" which seemed like it would be the appropriate answer.

    But as I said my thinking doesn't just extend to how often I have been to A&E personally, but knowing how often some other people do go. One particular hypochondriac I used to work with seemed to go every other week to monthly, which seemed to coincide with when she was hungover.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,191
    Ouch.

    DW Sports chain collapse threatens 1,700 jobs
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53635211
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,150
    Re Inter-country comparisons of excess deaths, I haven't seen any mention here of the EuroMoMo (= European Mortality Monitor) data which you can find here:
    https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps
    They show excess deaths weekly over the last 5 years, presenting breakdowns by country and age using a "Z-score" (they explain), and they disaggregate the UK into component nations. It is quite remarkable how much the European countries differ, and regrettably England is the second worst performer. Spain is the worst. Some countries hardly show a blip of any kind, even for their older cohorts.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,191
    edited August 2020

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    I wonder what proportion of the reduced attendance of hospitals is people who need to go to hospitals not going . . . and what proportion is hypochondriacs deciding they have something better to do.

    In the past when I've waited in A&E I've often felt the majority of people there didn't really need to be there.

    They were looking at you thinking exactly the same thing.

    "Often felt" - how many times have you been to A&E?
    Four times in the past decade. All pregnancy/child related.

    Once my wife was very pregnant, she fell over on black ice hitting her stomach and couldn't feel the baby kick afterwards. We called her midwife and were told to go immediately to A&E. We were asked questions on arrival including could she feel the baby kick ("No") and we then sat there for just under 4 hours. When the doctor finally came to speak to us the triage nurse had incorrectly written yes to the baby kicking on the notes. Eventually got taken through and they found a fetal heartbeat.

    About two years later as a toddler our daughter fell down the stairs tumbling from the top to the bottom of the stairs. We took her immediately to A&E, were advised to go straight to a children's unit and were seen immediately by a paediatrician. She was OK.

    Third time our daughter while climbing on the couch jumped off it and hit her head which immediately swelled up. Called 111 and told to go to A&E because it was a head injury. Waited about six hours, she got a check up and was OK.

    Finally our second daughter accidentally dislocated her hand/wrist. Took her to A&E, waited about five hours. Doctor "popped" it back in and she was OK.

    I've had colleagues in the past who'd go in fortnightly to monthly it seemed.
    Some very scary stuff in there but not all slam dunk reasons to be in A&E to someone sitting across the room, I presume?
    No, but when I was there the first time when she couldn't feel the baby kick I was sat near the entrance desk so could hear the reasons given on arrival and many to me did not seem to be either accidents or emergencies, never was the patient told "go home and call your GP" which seemed like it would be the appropriate answer.

    But as I said my thinking doesn't just extend to how often I have been to A&E personally, but knowing how often some other people do go. One particular hypochondriac I used to work with seemed to go every other week to monthly, which seemed to coincide with when she was hungover.
    Can work the other way though. A couple of years back I had chest pains, which I was fairly sure were heartburn but as they were persistent and annoying so I called the GP and asked for an appointment.

    I was told, to my astonishment, that the correct course of action for any chest pain was to dial 999.

    I persuaded the receptionist that it was not necessary to do that, and the doctor confirmed it was heartburn which cleared up with prescription drugs in a week.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,295

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    I wonder what proportion of the reduced attendance of hospitals is people who need to go to hospitals not going . . . and what proportion is hypochondriacs deciding they have something better to do.

    In the past when I've waited in A&E I've often felt the majority of people there didn't really need to be there.

    They were looking at you thinking exactly the same thing.

    "Often felt" - how many times have you been to A&E?
    Four times in the past decade. All pregnancy/child related.

    Once my wife was very pregnant, she fell over on black ice hitting her stomach and couldn't feel the baby kick afterwards. We called her midwife and were told to go immediately to A&E. We were asked questions on arrival including could she feel the baby kick ("No") and we then sat there for just under 4 hours. When the doctor finally came to speak to us the triage nurse had incorrectly written yes to the baby kicking on the notes. Eventually got taken through and they found a fetal heartbeat.

    About two years later as a toddler our daughter fell down the stairs tumbling from the top to the bottom of the stairs. We took her immediately to A&E, were advised to go straight to a children's unit and were seen immediately by a paediatrician. She was OK.

    Third time our daughter while climbing on the couch jumped off it and hit her head which immediately swelled up. Called 111 and told to go to A&E because it was a head injury. Waited about six hours, she got a check up and was OK.

    Finally our second daughter accidentally dislocated her hand/wrist. Took her to A&E, waited about five hours. Doctor "popped" it back in and she was OK.

    I've had colleagues in the past who'd go in fortnightly to monthly it seemed.
    Some very scary stuff in there but not all slam dunk reasons to be in A&E to someone sitting across the room, I presume?
    No, but when I was there the first time when she couldn't feel the baby kick I was sat near the entrance desk so could hear the reasons given on arrival and many to me did not seem to be either accidents or emergencies, never was the patient told "go home and call your GP" which seemed like it would be the appropriate answer.

    But as I said my thinking doesn't just extend to how often I have been to A&E personally, but knowing how often some other people do go. One particular hypochondriac I used to work with seemed to go every other week to monthly, which seemed to coincide with when she was hungover.
    "go home and call your GP" was obviously the wrong advice. "Go and ask that bloke sitting over there" would have sorted the situation and emptied A&E with less hassle.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,893
    geoffw said:

    Re Inter-country comparisons of excess deaths, I haven't seen any mention here of the EuroMoMo (= European Mortality Monitor) data which you can find here:
    https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps
    They show excess deaths weekly over the last 5 years, presenting breakdowns by country and age using a "Z-score" (they explain), and they disaggregate the UK into component nations. It is quite remarkable how much the European countries differ, and regrettably England is the second worst performer. Spain is the worst. Some countries hardly show a blip of any kind, even for their older cohorts.

    But we all LOVE THE NHS, remember?

    Think of a healthcare system like you think of a religion, and it becomes infallible.
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,150
    Sandpit said:

    geoffw said:

    Re Inter-country comparisons of excess deaths, I haven't seen any mention here of the EuroMoMo (= European Mortality Monitor) data which you can find here:
    https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps
    They show excess deaths weekly over the last 5 years, presenting breakdowns by country and age using a "Z-score" (they explain), and they disaggregate the UK into component nations. It is quite remarkable how much the European countries differ, and regrettably England is the second worst performer. Spain is the worst. Some countries hardly show a blip of any kind, even for their older cohorts.

    But we all LOVE THE NHS, remember?

    Think of a healthcare system like you think of a religion, and it becomes infallible.
    It is of course the envy of the world. So much so that no other country has dared to emulate it.

  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    ydoethur said:

    Ouch.

    DW Sports chain collapse threatens 1,700 jobs
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53635211

    Many,more on the way, sadly.

    Its one thing to lose a job,though, but what will really turn people against the government is when they discover the chances of getting another one are close to zero.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,062
    Sandpit said:

    geoffw said:

    Re Inter-country comparisons of excess deaths, I haven't seen any mention here of the EuroMoMo (= European Mortality Monitor) data which you can find here:
    https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps
    They show excess deaths weekly over the last 5 years, presenting breakdowns by country and age using a "Z-score" (they explain), and they disaggregate the UK into component nations. It is quite remarkable how much the European countries differ, and regrettably England is the second worst performer. Spain is the worst. Some countries hardly show a blip of any kind, even for their older cohorts.

    But we all LOVE THE NHS, remember?

    Think of a healthcare system like you think of a religion, and it becomes infallible.
    Tbf England has two religions, though they seem to be coalescing.

    https://twitter.com/mynnoj/status/1289630694830989312?s=20
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    @ydoethur http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/constituencies/uk-parliament/plymouth-moor-view interesting.

    Trending away since 2015, when the majority was only 1026. What has happened there?

    I honestly don’t know! As I have demonstrated I thought it was marginal.

    I would guess, but I could be completely wrong, that it’s where most of the Royal Navy have their shore homes, and that Corbyn’s pacifism didn’t play too well. Labour’s vote went down in Plymouth Sutton and Devonport as well, although not as catastrophically.

    Labour’s vote absolutely cratered in Taunton Deane as well, and was down in Bath. Equally, however, it rose in Portsmouth South.
    Moor View was estimated at 68% Brexit compared to 52% in Sutton and Devonport
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,921
    edited August 2020
    Scott_xP said:
    F*** All new about that , it has been planned for ages , dates have been there for ages , what tossers these unionists are, and he is among the top dummies.
    The interesting thing is the unionist UK led civil service have not been able to provide their documentation in 4 months and are trying to delay yet again. Someone trying to keep their job a bit longer perhaps or the shredders being repaired.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,191
    malcolmg said:

    Scott_xP said:
    F*** All new about that , it has been planned for ages , dates have been there for ages , what tossers these unionists are, and he is among the top dummies.
    I thought you liked him?

    Oh sorry, you mean Paul Hutcheon not ALex Salmond.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,376
    The general point on that Twitter thread about data transparency driving better government is interesting.

    Simply the issue of "Where is the data for x" can tell you a lot - asking for it hard enough can trigger changes throughout a system.
  • Options
    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    MaxPB said:

    Had a long chat with a cousin yesterday at a family picnic, he's a very high up at a major London trust. He basically said that the NHS is currently operating at 10-20% in London depending on the specific trust and he thinks people are going to die because the government pushed the messaging of "save the NHS" too hard early on and are still doing it which is putting people off from getting care for potentially life-threatening conditions. On the virus itself, he said his hospital and the surrounding ones haven't had a new case in about two weeks and the number of active cases are fairly small and confined to a single ward with no crossover in staffing and they are thinking of consolidating all existing London cases at a single trust and declaring the rest of the hospitals COVID-free to encourage patients to come back.

    He also said there is no sign of a second wave in terms of hospital admissions for them and they haven't picked up any additional suspected cases in their A&E. He's definitely of the opinion that the government needs to rethink the whole strategy of sacrificing all public health initiatives at the altar of the virus, especially now that we haven't got the same hospital caseload as before and there is spare capacity.

    I had a course of treatment postponed by the lockdown, but they phoned my at the beginning of June to go and get it finished. The hospital seemed pretty empty, but I go in at aside entrance to get to the ward I need so it was hard to compare. I also get the impression that they are prioritising cancer treatment.
    I've had a surgeon's office call me about a small, non-urgent procedure that was postponed from March. I think in the US, surgeons are eager to get more work as patients are not so keen to go to hospitals even now elective procedures are permitted.
    I’ve picked up a few hospital acquired infections in my time (although usually from what I would call invasive procedures) so I can certainly understand why people are avoiding hospitals unless they absolutely have to go.
    Nosocomial infections kill around 100k in the US per year ...
    I had pneumonia last year and it was described as “community acquired”: that is they have a special category for those illnesses not picked up in hospital...
    I was told by one senior medical type, that a major reason behind the modern emphasis on getting people out of hospital quickly, is the risk of picking up infections.
    Operations are now often done as day cases. I have spent fewer nights in hospital than I have had general anaesthetics.
    In the US, many (most?) operations are not done in hospitals, but in surgery centres - so walk in, walk out same day.
    Two of my day case tests under GA turned into ops and I ended up staying the night on a ward (indeed the right ward for my particular problem). How easy is that from a surgery center?
    It can be very easy. Particularly if the same group owns both the hospital and the surgery centre, and the surgeons are credentialed in both.
  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,781
    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    Scott_xP said:
    F*** All new about that , it has been planned for ages , dates have been there for ages , what tossers these unionists are, and he is among the top dummies.
    I thought you liked him?

    Oh sorry, you mean Paul Hutcheon not ALex Salmond.
    Perhaps the meetings will be "not proven" ?
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,208

    ydoethur said:

    Ouch.

    DW Sports chain collapse threatens 1,700 jobs
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53635211

    Many,more on the way, sadly.

    Its one thing to lose a job,though, but what will really turn people against the government is when they discover the chances of getting another one are close to zero.
    Wait till they find out what living on UC or ESA is like for more than a month or two.

    I suspect we'll be hearing rather less about alarm clock Britain getting up while next door's blinds are still drawn as they sleep in on benefits.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,415
    MaxPB said:

    TimT said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I wonder what proportion of the reduced attendance of hospitals is people who need to go to hospitals not going . . . and what proportion is hypochondriacs deciding they have something better to do.

    In the past when I've waited in A&E I've often felt the majority of people there didn't really need to be there.

    But it's not just A&E that's running at below capacity, it's everything including oncology.
    Indeed, oncology being down is very worrying.

    I'm not suggesting that all the decrease is non-worrying, but not all of the decrease is worrying either. Some of the decrease is people being more careful (or less driving or less drunk) and fewer accidents, some of it is fewer hypochondriacs going out . . . but much of it is what should be going on like oncology.

    There should be an awareness campaign going on for cancer awareness. I think that's the biggest concern of them all.
    It's not just cancer though, there's a whole host of routine procedures that are being put off or going undiagnosed because people don't want to go to hospital. The person with undiagnosed high cholesterol is at risk of a stroke, that's as serious as it gets.
    Or even a stomach ulcer that goes untreated too long.
    Exactly, cancer is just one of the serious health conditions currently going untreated or undetected because the government has sacrificed all other public health priorities for the virus. It's going to end very badly unless there is a serious rethink of policy.
    This would be helped a lot if Covid could be moved to a defined set of hospitals whose mission was to deal with Covid.

    It's not just a problem of treatment not being given to the vulnerable, I suspect there's also an issue of them not wanting to go and be treated in a hospital where there's a risk of Covid infection.

    As I've said before, I think we need:
    - An interim health sec so Matt Hancock can deal with Covid
    - Matt Hancock deals with opening a new network of Covid hospitals
    - New health sec aims to get the Covid-free NHS up and running again
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,208
    Andy_JS said:
    So, virtually no one is dying now.

    Time to get some perspective on wild plans for more coming lockdowns?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,693
    edited August 2020

    Andy_JS said:
    So, virtually no one is dying now.

    Time to get some perspective on wild plans for more coming lockdowns?
    IT's how many are dying in 3-4 weeks that is the question.

    And nobody was dying when the virus first boomed.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,989
    undefined
    malcolmg said:

    Scott_xP said:
    F*** All new about that , it has been planned for ages , dates have been there for ages , what tossers these unionists are, and he is among the top dummies.
    The interesting thing is the unionist UK led civil service have not been able to provide their documentation in 4 months and are trying to delay yet again. Someone trying to keep their job a bit longer perhaps or the shredders being repaired.
    https://twitter.com/paulhutcheon/status/1290282628042678279?s=19
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,295
    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:
    So, virtually no one is dying now.

    Time to get some perspective on wild plans for more coming lockdowns?
    IT's how many are dying in 3-4 weeks that is the question.

    And nobody was dying when the virus first boomed.
    So on that basis the govt at any time is able to declare that "normal" life can never resume. Should it choose to.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,415

    No speculation or insinuation.

    What about groundless tittle tattle?
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,262

    MaxPB said:

    TimT said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I wonder what proportion of the reduced attendance of hospitals is people who need to go to hospitals not going . . . and what proportion is hypochondriacs deciding they have something better to do.

    In the past when I've waited in A&E I've often felt the majority of people there didn't really need to be there.

    But it's not just A&E that's running at below capacity, it's everything including oncology.
    Indeed, oncology being down is very worrying.

    I'm not suggesting that all the decrease is non-worrying, but not all of the decrease is worrying either. Some of the decrease is people being more careful (or less driving or less drunk) and fewer accidents, some of it is fewer hypochondriacs going out . . . but much of it is what should be going on like oncology.

    There should be an awareness campaign going on for cancer awareness. I think that's the biggest concern of them all.
    It's not just cancer though, there's a whole host of routine procedures that are being put off or going undiagnosed because people don't want to go to hospital. The person with undiagnosed high cholesterol is at risk of a stroke, that's as serious as it gets.
    Or even a stomach ulcer that goes untreated too long.
    Exactly, cancer is just one of the serious health conditions currently going untreated or undetected because the government has sacrificed all other public health priorities for the virus. It's going to end very badly unless there is a serious rethink of policy.
    This would be helped a lot if Covid could be moved to a defined set of hospitals whose mission was to deal with Covid.

    It's not just a problem of treatment not being given to the vulnerable, I suspect there's also an issue of them not wanting to go and be treated in a hospital where there's a risk of Covid infection.

    As I've said before, I think we need:
    - An interim health sec so Matt Hancock can deal with Covid
    - Matt Hancock deals with opening a new network of Covid hospitals
    - New health sec aims to get the Covid-free NHS up and running again
    Who's going to go in these Covid hospitals? Is England now not averaging less than 1 patient in hospital per hospital?
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,376

    Andy_JS said:
    So, virtually no one is dying now.

    Time to get some perspective on wild plans for more coming lockdowns?
    Sigh

    We have the following facts. NOTE : all data for the last 3-5 days is provisional. Anyone attempting to prove their point with data from that period will be subjected to the collected speeches of Donald Trump for the rest of their life.

    1) Cases are rising

    image

    2) This is not due to just testing more. In fact the ratio of positives is going up for Pillar 2 (community testing)

    image

    3) Hospital fatalities are going down for the moment

    image

    4) As are the all settings numbers

    image

    5) The reason that the hospital numbers are going down while infections are rising is that the age profile has changed - for the moment

    image

    6) In a number of places, such as Florida, it has been shown that the virus spreads rapidly among the young, then pivots into the elderly and vulnerable groups.

    All of the above means that containing the virus early is the way to prevent it getting into the vulnerable groups in a big way, again.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,208
    TOPPING said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:
    So, virtually no one is dying now.

    Time to get some perspective on wild plans for more coming lockdowns?
    IT's how many are dying in 3-4 weeks that is the question.

    And nobody was dying when the virus first boomed.
    So on that basis the govt at any time is able to declare that "normal" life can never resume. Should it choose to.
    "It's how many are dying in 3-4 weeks that is the question."

    That's been said many times since Super Saturday and look where we are, weeks later.
  • Options
    NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,347
    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    TimT said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I wonder what proportion of the reduced attendance of hospitals is people who need to go to hospitals not going . . . and what proportion is hypochondriacs deciding they have something better to do.

    In the past when I've waited in A&E I've often felt the majority of people there didn't really need to be there.

    But it's not just A&E that's running at below capacity, it's everything including oncology.
    Indeed, oncology being down is very worrying.

    I'm not suggesting that all the decrease is non-worrying, but not all of the decrease is worrying either. Some of the decrease is people being more careful (or less driving or less drunk) and fewer accidents, some of it is fewer hypochondriacs going out . . . but much of it is what should be going on like oncology.

    There should be an awareness campaign going on for cancer awareness. I think that's the biggest concern of them all.
    It's not just cancer though, there's a whole host of routine procedures that are being put off or going undiagnosed because people don't want to go to hospital. The person with undiagnosed high cholesterol is at risk of a stroke, that's as serious as it gets.
    Or even a stomach ulcer that goes untreated too long.
    Exactly, cancer is just one of the serious health conditions currently going untreated or undetected because the government has sacrificed all other public health priorities for the virus. It's going to end very badly unless there is a serious rethink of policy.
    This would be helped a lot if Covid could be moved to a defined set of hospitals whose mission was to deal with Covid.

    It's not just a problem of treatment not being given to the vulnerable, I suspect there's also an issue of them not wanting to go and be treated in a hospital where there's a risk of Covid infection.

    As I've said before, I think we need:
    - An interim health sec so Matt Hancock can deal with Covid
    - Matt Hancock deals with opening a new network of Covid hospitals
    - New health sec aims to get the Covid-free NHS up and running again
    Who's going to go in these Covid hospitals? Is England now not averaging less than 1 patient in hospital per hospital?
    It certainly is, hospitals are mothballing their covid wards. Unfortunately the majority of their other wards are pretty empty as well.
    Thousands of people with other illnesses are not being treated.
    GP Surgeries have got to open up and not just put people off or tell people to go and see their Pharmacist.

  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,693
    edited August 2020
    TOPPING said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:
    So, virtually no one is dying now.

    Time to get some perspective on wild plans for more coming lockdowns?
    IT's how many are dying in 3-4 weeks that is the question.

    And nobody was dying when the virus first boomed.
    So on that basis the govt at any time is able to declare that "normal" life can never resume. Should it choose to.
    AIUI they weren't actual plans, we are told, but scenarios being explored, as to what might turn out to happen ans what might have to be done at T plus delta T if an infection begins. And quite rightly. And a good thing if this have finally got the concept of exponential growth into the heads of the (often) mathematically and scientifically illiterate politicians.

    In all seriousness, though, the time lag between new infections and deaths makes it dodgy to use the latter as a benchmark guide to the current pandemic situation.

    Edit: and it's quite possible for deaths to be going down and new infections to go up at the same time.

    Edsit 2: and see Malmesbury's excellent post a few moments ago.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,262
    ydoethur said:

    Ouch.

    DW Sports chain collapse threatens 1,700 jobs
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53635211

    That's my gym. In fairness they haven't been taking money during lockdown but you have to wonder how many of them will reopen now. My guess in Scotland (where gyms are still not permitted) the answer will be only under new ownership.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,693
    edited August 2020
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ouch.

    DW Sports chain collapse threatens 1,700 jobs
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53635211

    That's my gym. In fairness they haven't been taking money during lockdown but you have to wonder how many of them will reopen now. My guess in Scotland (where gyms are still not permitted) the answer will be only under new ownership.
    Gyms have been given a target opening date of 15 September, I believe - my local one is working to that.

    Edit: 14 Sept.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,376
    RobD said:
    I have been told that the remarkably uniform concensus over welcoming HK people into this country is evidence of racism.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,191
    Carnyx said:

    TOPPING said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:
    So, virtually no one is dying now.

    Time to get some perspective on wild plans for more coming lockdowns?
    IT's how many are dying in 3-4 weeks that is the question.

    And nobody was dying when the virus first boomed.
    So on that basis the govt at any time is able to declare that "normal" life can never resume. Should it choose to.
    AIUI they weren't actual plans
    My understanding, based on a fair amount of close observation, is that this government isn't capable of making actual plans.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,114

    ydoethur said:

    @ydoethur http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/constituencies/uk-parliament/plymouth-moor-view interesting.

    Trending away since 2015, when the majority was only 1026. What has happened there?

    I honestly don’t know! As I have demonstrated I thought it was marginal.

    I would guess, but I could be completely wrong, that it’s where most of the Royal Navy have their shore homes, and that Corbyn’s pacifism didn’t play too well. Labour’s vote went down in Plymouth Sutton and Devonport as well, although not as catastrophically.

    Labour’s vote absolutely cratered in Taunton Deane as well, and was down in Bath. Equally, however, it rose in Portsmouth South.
    Well I think you would hope Labour might recover some then, with a leader who is not Corbyn.

    I do think in these very marginal Brexit-voting seats, Corbyn was the factor that sealed the deal for many voters.

    I would expect Starmer will win some back just by not being Corbyn.
    Only when he convinces them Labour is no longer Labour. Thier brand is buggered. He needs to oversee a rebrand. New Labour, if you will.

    I'm sure all its activists can get behind that idea.

  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,962
    So if we hadn't let the foreigners in, we'd be even less racist?

    I'll get my coat. :D
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,693
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    TOPPING said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:
    So, virtually no one is dying now.

    Time to get some perspective on wild plans for more coming lockdowns?
    IT's how many are dying in 3-4 weeks that is the question.

    And nobody was dying when the virus first boomed.
    So on that basis the govt at any time is able to declare that "normal" life can never resume. Should it choose to.
    AIUI they weren't actual plans
    My understanding, based on a fair amount of close observation, is that this government isn't capable of making actual plans.
    That did rather worry me too - what would they pick out of the pile when something did happen?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,191

    ydoethur said:

    @ydoethur http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/constituencies/uk-parliament/plymouth-moor-view interesting.

    Trending away since 2015, when the majority was only 1026. What has happened there?

    I honestly don’t know! As I have demonstrated I thought it was marginal.

    I would guess, but I could be completely wrong, that it’s where most of the Royal Navy have their shore homes, and that Corbyn’s pacifism didn’t play too well. Labour’s vote went down in Plymouth Sutton and Devonport as well, although not as catastrophically.

    Labour’s vote absolutely cratered in Taunton Deane as well, and was down in Bath. Equally, however, it rose in Portsmouth South.
    Well I think you would hope Labour might recover some then, with a leader who is not Corbyn.

    I do think in these very marginal Brexit-voting seats, Corbyn was the factor that sealed the deal for many voters.

    I would expect Starmer will win some back just by not being Corbyn.
    Only when he convinces them Labour is no longer Labour. Thier brand is buggered. He needs to oversee a rebrand. New Labour, if you will.

    I'm sure all its activists can get behind that idea.

    If he rebrands as New Labour, he's completely buggered. The Left will explode and the Right will mock.

    Something like Ordinary Labour would serve better, especially given the collection of weirdos he's going to be up against.
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    malmesbury's assertion that the ratio of positives is going up rests on week's data, the latest week, in a period that he himself has dubbed as provisional and therefore not to be used as an argument.

    Strip that week out of the numbers and the proportionality trend has fallen and is stable.

    Also, given the spike in numbers in the North West has been going up for a while now, if the data were reliable hospital admissions should be seriously rising. essentially the spike started 20 July.

    They aren't.

  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,962

    malmesbury's assertion that the ratio of positives is going up rests on week's data, the latest week, in a period that he himself has dubbed as provisional and therefore not to be used as an argument.

    Strip that week out of the numbers and the proportionality trend has fallen and is stable.

    Also, given the spike in numbers in the North West has been going up for a while now, if the data were reliable hospital admissions should be seriously rising. essentially the spike started 20 July.

    They aren't.

    Week 30 goes from July 20-July 26, that's outside the window for provisional data.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,262
    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ouch.

    DW Sports chain collapse threatens 1,700 jobs
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53635211

    That's my gym. In fairness they haven't been taking money during lockdown but you have to wonder how many of them will reopen now. My guess in Scotland (where gyms are still not permitted) the answer will be only under new ownership.
    Gyms have been given a target opening date of 15 September, I believe - my local one is working to that.

    Edit: 14 Sept.
    Too little, too late. The jobs are gone.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,376
    edited August 2020

    malmesbury's assertion that the ratio of positives is going up rests on week's data, the latest week, in a period that he himself has dubbed as provisional and therefore not to be used as an argument.

    Strip that week out of the numbers and the proportionality trend has fallen and is stable.

    Also, given the spike in numbers in the North West has been going up for a while now, if the data were reliable hospital admissions should be seriously rising. essentially the spike started 20 July.

    They aren't.

    The positives number is up to week 30 - which is at the end of July. We are in August.

    The reason that hospital numbers haven't spiked is also explained by the profile of the cases - a much lower number of the very elderly are currently getting COVID. The problem is that this will change when the disease becomes more prevalent.
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,150
    TimT said:
    The aim should be to bring down the epidemic imo. With that in mind, wouldn't it be a good thing to ensure that people engaged in international travel are early recipients of the vaccine? So no external seeding into the host populations into which they travel.
  • Options
    RH1992RH1992 Posts: 788

    Bury North: Leave

    Kensington: Remain

    Bury South: Leave

    Bolton North East: Leave

    Swing of 0.43% required to win all of these. Despite the most unpopular Labour leader in history and Brexit, they only lost narrowly.

    Emma Dent Coad was certainly the straw that broke the camel's back in Kensington. If they'd had someone with 10% more decency Labour would have kept the seat.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,376
    RobD said:

    So if we hadn't let the foreigners in, we'd be even less racist?

    I'll get my coat. :D
    Having stood on a building site as various Polish gentlemen expressed themselves on the subject of the Roma.....

    The assumption that immigrants are always wonderful is, to me, a strange idea. People are quite generally.... people.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,923
    Interesting that Lithuania sees the USA as more important than the EU still. But not surprising. Further European integration of the armed forces to form a bulwark against Vlad the bad might change that calculation, but till then the USA is essentially the de facto global force dissuading invasion.
  • Options
    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    edited August 2020
    geoffw said:

    TimT said:
    The aim should be to bring down the epidemic imo. With that in mind, wouldn't it be a good thing to ensure that people engaged in international travel are early recipients of the vaccine? So no external seeding into the host populations into which they travel.
    That would bump me up the list, so perhaps I should agree. :hushed:

    Seriously, Redfield's comment about it needing to be seen to be fair and equitable, not just efficient and effective, is a key point.
  • Options

    On-topic re Dem VP choice, the screen grab in the header from CBS News includes Maggie Hassan, available at 1000 on Betfair if you believe CBS that she is a live contender. That is longer than Barack (not Michelle) Obama, who falls down on the being a woman part. I've not been including her in any of the betting summaries I've posted from time to time.

    Elizabeth Warren is interesting. Though it has been said Biden will nominate a "woman of colour", I cannot trace that back to the man himself, who has said it will be a woman. This is not a tip, more a reflection on how opaque this apparently open process remains. My own sense from looking at the betting and reading American coverage from thousands of miles away, is that the first five in the betting remain under active consideration.

    Here is a longer, though still not full, list from Betfair.

    Kamala Harris: 1.86
    Susan Rice: 6.6
    Karen Bass: 10
    Tammy Duckworth: 11
    Elizabeth Warren: 18.5
    Michelle Obama: 25
    Gretchen Whitmer: 36
    Val Demings: 38
    Michelle Lujan Grisham: 60
    Keisha Lance Bottoms: 80
    Hillary Clinton: 95
    Condoleezza Rice: 510
    Stacey Abrams: 540
    Gina Raimondo: 550
    Oprah Winfrey: 550
    Barack Obama: 590
    Terri Sewell: 700
    Amy Klobuchar: 730
    Mitt Romney: 810
    Catherine Cortez Masto: 830
    Tammy Baldwin: 940
    Maggie Hassan: 1000

    USA Dem VP nominee. Karen Bass and Tammy Duckworth have switched places since this morning. Stacey Abrams has been nibbled at monster prices.

    Kamala Harris: 1.93
    Susan Rice: 6
    Tammy Duckworth: 9.4
    Karen Bass: 11.5
    Elizabeth Warren: 19
    Michelle Obama: 29
    Val Demings: 29
    Gretchen Whitmer: 34
    Hillary Clinton: 100
    Michelle Lujan Grisham: 120
    Keisha Lance Bottoms: 160
    Stacey Abrams: 200
    Barack Obama: 300
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    malmesbury's assertion that the ratio of positives is going up rests on week's data, the latest week, in a period that he himself has dubbed as provisional and therefore not to be used as an argument.

    Strip that week out of the numbers and the proportionality trend has fallen and is stable.

    Also, given the spike in numbers in the North West has been going up for a while now, if the data were reliable hospital admissions should be seriously rising. essentially the spike started 20 July.

    They aren't.

    The positives number is up to week 30 - which is at the end of July. We are in August.

    The reason that hospital numbers haven't spiked is also explained by the profile of the cases - a much lower number of the very elderly are currently getting COVID. The problem is that this will change when the disease becomes more prevalent.
    Nah....ripples....

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8588249/This-NOT-second-wave-Mini-Covid-19-outbreaks-UK-just-ripples-epidemic.html?ito=push-notification&ci=26285&si=13855726
  • Options

    On-topic re Dem VP choice, the screen grab in the header from CBS News includes Maggie Hassan, available at 1000 on Betfair if you believe CBS that she is a live contender. That is longer than Barack (not Michelle) Obama, who falls down on the being a woman part. I've not been including her in any of the betting summaries I've posted from time to time.

    Elizabeth Warren is interesting. Though it has been said Biden will nominate a "woman of colour", I cannot trace that back to the man himself, who has said it will be a woman. This is not a tip, more a reflection on how opaque this apparently open process remains. My own sense from looking at the betting and reading American coverage from thousands of miles away, is that the first five in the betting remain under active consideration.

    Here is a longer, though still not full, list from Betfair.

    Kamala Harris: 1.86
    Susan Rice: 6.6
    Karen Bass: 10
    Tammy Duckworth: 11
    Elizabeth Warren: 18.5
    Michelle Obama: 25
    Gretchen Whitmer: 36
    Val Demings: 38
    Michelle Lujan Grisham: 60
    Keisha Lance Bottoms: 80
    Hillary Clinton: 95
    Condoleezza Rice: 510
    Stacey Abrams: 540
    Gina Raimondo: 550
    Oprah Winfrey: 550
    Barack Obama: 590
    Terri Sewell: 700
    Amy Klobuchar: 730
    Mitt Romney: 810
    Catherine Cortez Masto: 830
    Tammy Baldwin: 940
    Maggie Hassan: 1000

    USA Dem VP nominee. Karen Bass and Tammy Duckworth have switched places since this morning. Stacey Abrams has been nibbled at monster prices.

    Kamala Harris: 1.93
    Susan Rice: 6
    Tammy Duckworth: 9.4
    Karen Bass: 11.5
    Elizabeth Warren: 19
    Michelle Obama: 29
    Val Demings: 29
    Gretchen Whitmer: 34
    Hillary Clinton: 100
    Michelle Lujan Grisham: 120
    Keisha Lance Bottoms: 160
    Stacey Abrams: 200
    Barack Obama: 300
    Missed this -- Tammy Baldwin backed off the boards and now even money on Betfair!!

  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,415
    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    TimT said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I wonder what proportion of the reduced attendance of hospitals is people who need to go to hospitals not going . . . and what proportion is hypochondriacs deciding they have something better to do.

    In the past when I've waited in A&E I've often felt the majority of people there didn't really need to be there.

    But it's not just A&E that's running at below capacity, it's everything including oncology.
    Indeed, oncology being down is very worrying.

    I'm not suggesting that all the decrease is non-worrying, but not all of the decrease is worrying either. Some of the decrease is people being more careful (or less driving or less drunk) and fewer accidents, some of it is fewer hypochondriacs going out . . . but much of it is what should be going on like oncology.

    There should be an awareness campaign going on for cancer awareness. I think that's the biggest concern of them all.
    It's not just cancer though, there's a whole host of routine procedures that are being put off or going undiagnosed because people don't want to go to hospital. The person with undiagnosed high cholesterol is at risk of a stroke, that's as serious as it gets.
    Or even a stomach ulcer that goes untreated too long.
    Exactly, cancer is just one of the serious health conditions currently going untreated or undetected because the government has sacrificed all other public health priorities for the virus. It's going to end very badly unless there is a serious rethink of policy.
    This would be helped a lot if Covid could be moved to a defined set of hospitals whose mission was to deal with Covid.

    It's not just a problem of treatment not being given to the vulnerable, I suspect there's also an issue of them not wanting to go and be treated in a hospital where there's a risk of Covid infection.

    As I've said before, I think we need:
    - An interim health sec so Matt Hancock can deal with Covid
    - Matt Hancock deals with opening a new network of Covid hospitals
    - New health sec aims to get the Covid-free NHS up and running again
    Who's going to go in these Covid hospitals? Is England now not averaging less than 1 patient in hospital per hospital?
    Well, if there really turned out to be no patients, I suppose they'd be turned into Covid immunisation centres or centres of excellence for contagious disease, or eventually returned to the mainstream NHS. But most seem to think we still need the capacity.

    And with no patients, they might get the Florence Nightingale award for hygiene. ;)
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,962

    malmesbury's assertion that the ratio of positives is going up rests on week's data, the latest week, in a period that he himself has dubbed as provisional and therefore not to be used as an argument.

    Strip that week out of the numbers and the proportionality trend has fallen and is stable.

    Also, given the spike in numbers in the North West has been going up for a while now, if the data were reliable hospital admissions should be seriously rising. essentially the spike started 20 July.

    They aren't.

    The positives number is up to week 30 - which is at the end of July. We are in August.

    The reason that hospital numbers haven't spiked is also explained by the profile of the cases - a much lower number of the very elderly are currently getting COVID. The problem is that this will change when the disease becomes more prevalent.
    Nah....ripples....

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8588249/This-NOT-second-wave-Mini-Covid-19-outbreaks-UK-just-ripples-epidemic.html?ito=push-notification&ci=26285&si=13855726
    Those north west numbers are just a ripple?
  • Options

    On-topic re Dem VP choice, the screen grab in the header from CBS News includes Maggie Hassan, available at 1000 on Betfair if you believe CBS that she is a live contender. That is longer than Barack (not Michelle) Obama, who falls down on the being a woman part. I've not been including her in any of the betting summaries I've posted from time to time.

    Elizabeth Warren is interesting. Though it has been said Biden will nominate a "woman of colour", I cannot trace that back to the man himself, who has said it will be a woman. This is not a tip, more a reflection on how opaque this apparently open process remains. My own sense from looking at the betting and reading American coverage from thousands of miles away, is that the first five in the betting remain under active consideration.

    Here is a longer, though still not full, list from Betfair.

    Kamala Harris: 1.86
    Susan Rice: 6.6
    Karen Bass: 10
    Tammy Duckworth: 11
    Elizabeth Warren: 18.5
    Michelle Obama: 25
    Gretchen Whitmer: 36
    Val Demings: 38
    Michelle Lujan Grisham: 60
    Keisha Lance Bottoms: 80
    Hillary Clinton: 95
    Condoleezza Rice: 510
    Stacey Abrams: 540
    Gina Raimondo: 550
    Oprah Winfrey: 550
    Barack Obama: 590
    Terri Sewell: 700
    Amy Klobuchar: 730
    Mitt Romney: 810
    Catherine Cortez Masto: 830
    Tammy Baldwin: 940
    Maggie Hassan: 1000

    USA Dem VP nominee. Karen Bass and Tammy Duckworth have switched places since this morning. Stacey Abrams has been nibbled at monster prices.

    Kamala Harris: 1.93
    Susan Rice: 6
    Tammy Duckworth: 9.4
    Karen Bass: 11.5
    Elizabeth Warren: 19
    Michelle Obama: 29
    Val Demings: 29
    Gretchen Whitmer: 34
    Hillary Clinton: 100
    Michelle Lujan Grisham: 120
    Keisha Lance Bottoms: 160
    Stacey Abrams: 200
    Barack Obama: 300
    Biden has said he will pick a woman as his Vice Presidential running mate. Has NOT gone beyond that, speculation he will choose VP of color is just that -speculation.

    Keep in mind there are MANY competing interest groups here within or closely adjacent to the Democratic Party and/or Biden campaign.

    Including politicos in MANY states who might benefit IF one or another of the hopefuls in picked. For example IF that pick created a potential vacancy for US Senator or Governor.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,359
    edited August 2020

    On-topic re Dem VP choice, the screen grab in the header from CBS News includes Maggie Hassan, available at 1000 on Betfair if you believe CBS that she is a live contender. That is longer than Barack (not Michelle) Obama, who falls down on the being a woman part. I've not been including her in any of the betting

    summaries I've posted from time to time.

    Elizabeth Warren is interesting. Though it has been said Biden will nominate a "woman of colour", I cannot trace that back to the man himself, who has said it will be a woman. This is not a tip, more a reflection on how opaque this apparently open process remains. My own sense from looking at the betting and reading American coverage from thousands of miles away, is that the first five in the betting remain under active consideration.

    Here is a longer, though still not full, list from Betfair.

    Kamala Harris: 1.86
    Susan Rice: 6.6
    Karen Bass: 10
    Tammy Duckworth: 11
    Elizabeth Warren: 18.5
    Michelle Obama: 25
    Gretchen Whitmer: 36
    Val Demings: 38
    Michelle Lujan Grisham: 60
    Keisha Lance Bottoms: 80
    Hillary Clinton: 95
    Condoleezza Rice: 510
    Stacey Abrams: 540
    Gina Raimondo: 550
    Oprah Winfrey: 550
    Barack Obama: 590
    Terri Sewell: 700
    Amy Klobuchar: 730
    Mitt Romney: 810
    Catherine Cortez Masto: 830
    Tammy Baldwin: 940
    Maggie Hassan: 1000

    USA Dem VP nominee. Karen Bass and Tammy Duckworth have switched places since this morning. Stacey Abrams has been nibbled at monster prices.

    Kamala Harris: 1.93
    Susan Rice: 6
    Tammy Duckworth: 9.4
    Karen Bass: 11.5
    Elizabeth Warren: 19
    Michelle Obama: 29
    Val Demings: 29
    Gretchen Whitmer: 34
    Hillary Clinton: 100
    Michelle Lujan Grisham: 120
    Keisha Lance Bottoms: 160
    Stacey Abrams: 200
    Barack Obama: 300
    Missed this -- Tammy Baldwin backed off the boards and now even money on Betfair!!

    I wonder if someone got Tammy Baldwin mixed up with Duckworth.

    ETA since Baldwin is still at three-figure prices with the books, I'm inclined to think someone (or someone's bot) has ballsed up badly on Betfair.
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    On-topic re Dem VP choice, the screen grab in the header from CBS News includes Maggie Hassan, available at 1000 on Betfair if you believe CBS that she is a live contender. That is longer than Barack (not Michelle) Obama, who falls down on the being a woman part. I've not been including her in any of the betting summaries I've posted from time to time.

    Elizabeth Warren is interesting. Though it has been said Biden will nominate a "woman of colour", I cannot trace that back to the man himself, who has said it will be a woman. This is not a tip, more a reflection on how opaque this apparently open process remains. My own sense from looking at the betting and reading American coverage from thousands of miles away, is that the first five in the betting remain under active consideration.

    Here is a longer, though still not full, list from Betfair.

    Kamala Harris: 1.86
    Susan Rice: 6.6
    Karen Bass: 10
    Tammy Duckworth: 11
    Elizabeth Warren: 18.5
    Michelle Obama: 25
    Gretchen Whitmer: 36
    Val Demings: 38
    Michelle Lujan Grisham: 60
    Keisha Lance Bottoms: 80
    Hillary Clinton: 95
    Condoleezza Rice: 510
    Stacey Abrams: 540
    Gina Raimondo: 550
    Oprah Winfrey: 550
    Barack Obama: 590
    Terri Sewell: 700
    Amy Klobuchar: 730
    Mitt Romney: 810
    Catherine Cortez Masto: 830
    Tammy Baldwin: 940
    Maggie Hassan: 1000

    USA Dem VP nominee. Karen Bass and Tammy Duckworth have switched places since this morning. Stacey Abrams has been nibbled at monster prices.

    Kamala Harris: 1.93
    Susan Rice: 6
    Tammy Duckworth: 9.4
    Karen Bass: 11.5
    Elizabeth Warren: 19
    Michelle Obama: 29
    Val Demings: 29
    Gretchen Whitmer: 34
    Hillary Clinton: 100
    Michelle Lujan Grisham: 120
    Keisha Lance Bottoms: 160
    Stacey Abrams: 200
    Barack Obama: 300
    Biden has said he will pick a woman as his Vice Presidential running mate. Has NOT gone beyond that, speculation he will choose VP of color is just that -speculation.

    Keep in mind there are MANY competing interest groups here within or closely adjacent to the Democratic Party and/or Biden campaign.

    Including politicos in MANY states who might benefit IF one or another of the hopefuls in picked. For example IF that pick created a potential vacancy for US Senator or Governor.
    You can see why there is such a fight. Whoever wins is the de facto President from day one, and probably the actual president shortly after that.

    Seeing some of the clips of Biden, it really is very sad.
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,150
    TimT said:

    geoffw said:

    TimT said:
    The aim should be to bring down the epidemic imo. With that in mind, wouldn't it be a good thing to ensure that people engaged in international travel are early recipients of the vaccine? So no external seeding into the host populations into which they travel.
    That would bump me up the list, so perhaps I should agree. :hushed:

    Seriously, Redfield's comment about it needing to be seen to be fair and equitable, not just efficient and effective, is a key point.
    Sorry to differ with you about that. It is easy to agree on the words "fair and equitable" but also easy to dispute any particular notion of what that entails in practice. I think the sole aim is to control the epidemic, both the severity and the spread. A corollary could be that if it threatens to rage in poor countries with deficient health systems, then they should perhaps be prioritised.

  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,923
    edited August 2020
    My one regret in the VP market is not laying Gabbard for more when she was 12.5
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,415
    RobD said:

    So if we hadn't let the foreigners in, we'd be even less racist?

    I'll get my coat. :D
    That's certainly how it's worked for Scotland. 92% white British, 92% more likely to be pictured holding a #RefugeesWelcome sign and making snide comments about English bigotry.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,376

    malmesbury's assertion that the ratio of positives is going up rests on week's data, the latest week, in a period that he himself has dubbed as provisional and therefore not to be used as an argument.

    Strip that week out of the numbers and the proportionality trend has fallen and is stable.

    Also, given the spike in numbers in the North West has been going up for a while now, if the data were reliable hospital admissions should be seriously rising. essentially the spike started 20 July.

    They aren't.

    The positives number is up to week 30 - which is at the end of July. We are in August.

    The reason that hospital numbers haven't spiked is also explained by the profile of the cases - a much lower number of the very elderly are currently getting COVID. The problem is that this will change when the disease becomes more prevalent.
    Nah....ripples....

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8588249/This-NOT-second-wave-Mini-Covid-19-outbreaks-UK-just-ripples-epidemic.html?ito=push-notification&ci=26285&si=13855726
    Tis' but a scratch

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmInkxbvlCs
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,062
    The lad's hit the ground running. I'm sure extolling the important legislative role played by *checks notes* Evgeny Lebedev, Claire Fox, Kate Hoey, Digby Jones, Zac Goldsmith and BJ's less famous brother will be a real vote winner.

    https://twitter.com/mark_mclaughlin/status/1290293547250270209?s=20
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,923

    On-topic re Dem VP choice, the screen grab in the header from CBS News includes Maggie Hassan, available at 1000 on Betfair if you believe CBS that she is a live contender. That is longer than Barack (not Michelle) Obama, who falls down on the being a woman part. I've not been including her in any of the betting

    summaries I've posted from time to time.

    Elizabeth Warren is interesting. Though it has been said Biden will nominate a "woman of colour", I cannot trace that back to the man himself, who has said it will be a woman. This is not a tip, more a reflection on how opaque this apparently open process remains. My own sense from looking at the betting and reading American coverage from thousands of miles away, is that the first five in the betting remain under active consideration.

    Here is a longer, though still not full, list from Betfair.

    Kamala Harris: 1.86
    Susan Rice: 6.6
    Karen Bass: 10
    Tammy Duckworth: 11
    Elizabeth Warren: 18.5
    Michelle Obama: 25
    Gretchen Whitmer: 36
    Val Demings: 38
    Michelle Lujan Grisham: 60
    Keisha Lance Bottoms: 80
    Hillary Clinton: 95
    Condoleezza Rice: 510
    Stacey Abrams: 540
    Gina Raimondo: 550
    Oprah Winfrey: 550
    Barack Obama: 590
    Terri Sewell: 700
    Amy Klobuchar: 730
    Mitt Romney: 810
    Catherine Cortez Masto: 830
    Tammy Baldwin: 940
    Maggie Hassan: 1000

    USA Dem VP nominee. Karen Bass and Tammy Duckworth have switched places since this morning. Stacey Abrams has been nibbled at monster prices.

    Kamala Harris: 1.93
    Susan Rice: 6
    Tammy Duckworth: 9.4
    Karen Bass: 11.5
    Elizabeth Warren: 19
    Michelle Obama: 29
    Val Demings: 29
    Gretchen Whitmer: 34
    Hillary Clinton: 100
    Michelle Lujan Grisham: 120
    Keisha Lance Bottoms: 160
    Stacey Abrams: 200
    Barack Obama: 300
    Missed this -- Tammy Baldwin backed off the boards and now even money on Betfair!!

    I wonder if someone got Tammy Baldwin mixed up with Duckworth.

    ETA since Baldwin is still at three-figure prices with the books, I'm inclined to think someone (or someone's bot) has ballsed up badly on Betfair.
    Sorry, this is a nonsense. Tammy Baldwin's low match price was 30.
  • Options
    Claiming US VP selection "open" is political window dressing for a process that by its very nature is limited to a VERY small number of people - ultimately one - who are truly "in the know".

    This is true even when decision is to throw the nomination to the national party convention - which Adlai Stevenson did in 1956 - because even THAT decision is made by just one: the presidential nomineee.

    Essentially the whole VP "race" is a concept conceived, nurtured and (mostly) perpetuated by media. Primarily to see papers, clicks, etc, but also as response to the rise of President of the United States as Leader of the Free World and now only superpower.
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    @ydoethur http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/constituencies/uk-parliament/plymouth-moor-view interesting.

    Trending away since 2015, when the majority was only 1026. What has happened there?

    I honestly don’t know! As I have demonstrated I thought it was marginal.

    I would guess, but I could be completely wrong, that it’s where most of the Royal Navy have their shore homes, and that Corbyn’s pacifism didn’t play too well. Labour’s vote went down in Plymouth Sutton and Devonport as well, although not as catastrophically.

    Labour’s vote absolutely cratered in Taunton Deane as well, and was down in Bath. Equally, however, it rose in Portsmouth South.
    Well I think you would hope Labour might recover some then, with a leader who is not Corbyn.

    I do think in these very marginal Brexit-voting seats, Corbyn was the factor that sealed the deal for many voters.

    I would expect Starmer will win some back just by not being Corbyn.
    Only when he convinces them Labour is no longer Labour. Thier brand is buggered. He needs to oversee a rebrand. New Labour, if you will.

    I'm sure all its activists can get behind that idea.

    If he rebrands as New Labour, he's completely buggered. The Left will explode and the Right will mock.

    Something like Ordinary Labour would serve better, especially given the collection of weirdos he's going to be up against.
    Classic Labour? Diet Labour? Labour Zero?
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,295

    malmesbury's assertion that the ratio of positives is going up rests on week's data, the latest week, in a period that he himself has dubbed as provisional and therefore not to be used as an argument.

    Strip that week out of the numbers and the proportionality trend has fallen and is stable.

    Also, given the spike in numbers in the North West has been going up for a while now, if the data were reliable hospital admissions should be seriously rising. essentially the spike started 20 July.

    They aren't.

    The positives number is up to week 30 - which is at the end of July. We are in August.

    The reason that hospital numbers haven't spiked is also explained by the profile of the cases - a much lower number of the very elderly are currently getting COVID. The problem is that this will change when the disease becomes more prevalent.
    "Don't go and hug your grandparents after you've been boozing it up down the pub/gym/bowling alley" would have a pretty effective outcome. And be no different from the situation anyway.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,415

    The lad's hit the ground running. I'm sure extolling the important legislative role played by *checks notes* Evgeny Lebedev, Claire Fox, Kate Hoey, Digby Jones, Zac Goldsmith and BJ's less famous brother will be a real vote winner.

    https://twitter.com/mark_mclaughlin/status/1290293547250270209?s=20

    Is Digby Jones disqualified on any grounds other than that you don't like what he says? He was head of the CBI, I'm assuming he has some credentials.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,921
    edited August 2020

    The lad's hit the ground running. I'm sure extolling the important legislative role played by *checks notes* Evgeny Lebedev, Claire Fox, Kate Hoey, Digby Jones, Zac Goldsmith and BJ's less famous brother will be a real vote winner.

    https://twitter.com/mark_mclaughlin/status/1290293547250270209?s=20

    He was on GMS this morning , a complete powderpuff, just another bag of wind whose only answers were SNPBAD. He did not like getting reminded of his one wish answer re "rid Scotland of gypsies
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    On-topic re Dem VP choice, the screen grab in the header from CBS News includes Maggie Hassan, available at 1000 on Betfair if you believe CBS that she is a live contender. That is longer than Barack (not Michelle) Obama, who falls down on the being a woman part. I've not been including her in any of the betting

    summaries I've posted from time to time.

    Elizabeth Warren is interesting. Though it has been said Biden will nominate a "woman of colour", I cannot trace that back to the man himself, who has said it will be a woman. This is not a tip, more a reflection on how opaque this apparently open process remains. My own sense from looking at the betting and reading American coverage from thousands of miles away, is that the first five in the betting remain under active consideration.

    Here is a longer, though still not full, list from Betfair.

    Kamala Harris: 1.86
    Susan Rice: 6.6
    Karen Bass: 10
    Tammy Duckworth: 11
    Elizabeth Warren: 18.5
    Michelle Obama: 25
    Gretchen Whitmer: 36
    Val Demings: 38
    Michelle Lujan Grisham: 60
    Keisha Lance Bottoms: 80
    Hillary Clinton: 95
    Condoleezza Rice: 510
    Stacey Abrams: 540
    Gina Raimondo: 550
    Oprah Winfrey: 550
    Barack Obama: 590
    Terri Sewell: 700
    Amy Klobuchar: 730
    Mitt Romney: 810
    Catherine Cortez Masto: 830
    Tammy Baldwin: 940
    Maggie Hassan: 1000

    USA Dem VP nominee. Karen Bass and Tammy Duckworth have switched places since this morning. Stacey Abrams has been nibbled at monster prices.

    Kamala Harris: 1.93
    Susan Rice: 6
    Tammy Duckworth: 9.4
    Karen Bass: 11.5
    Elizabeth Warren: 19
    Michelle Obama: 29
    Val Demings: 29
    Gretchen Whitmer: 34
    Hillary Clinton: 100
    Michelle Lujan Grisham: 120
    Keisha Lance Bottoms: 160
    Stacey Abrams: 200
    Barack Obama: 300
    Missed this -- Tammy Baldwin backed off the boards and now even money on Betfair!!

    I wonder if someone got Tammy Baldwin mixed up with Duckworth.

    ETA since Baldwin is still at three-figure prices with the books, I'm inclined to think someone (or someone's bot) has ballsed up badly on Betfair.
    Sorry, this is a nonsense. Tammy Baldwin's low match price was 30.
    A few hours ago, Tammy Baldwin was available at 940. Now 2. Someone has taken everything. In the absence of any news, and since Duckworth has also been backed, my guess is someone mixed them up.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,376

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    @ydoethur http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/constituencies/uk-parliament/plymouth-moor-view interesting.

    Trending away since 2015, when the majority was only 1026. What has happened there?

    I honestly don’t know! As I have demonstrated I thought it was marginal.

    I would guess, but I could be completely wrong, that it’s where most of the Royal Navy have their shore homes, and that Corbyn’s pacifism didn’t play too well. Labour’s vote went down in Plymouth Sutton and Devonport as well, although not as catastrophically.

    Labour’s vote absolutely cratered in Taunton Deane as well, and was down in Bath. Equally, however, it rose in Portsmouth South.
    Well I think you would hope Labour might recover some then, with a leader who is not Corbyn.

    I do think in these very marginal Brexit-voting seats, Corbyn was the factor that sealed the deal for many voters.

    I would expect Starmer will win some back just by not being Corbyn.
    Only when he convinces them Labour is no longer Labour. Thier brand is buggered. He needs to oversee a rebrand. New Labour, if you will.

    I'm sure all its activists can get behind that idea.

    If he rebrands as New Labour, he's completely buggered. The Left will explode and the Right will mock.

    Something like Ordinary Labour would serve better, especially given the collection of weirdos he's going to be up against.
    Classic Labour? Diet Labour? Labour Zero?
    Real Labour. Continuity Labour. Keepin' It Real Labour.
  • Options
    NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,347
    RobD said:

    malmesbury's assertion that the ratio of positives is going up rests on week's data, the latest week, in a period that he himself has dubbed as provisional and therefore not to be used as an argument.

    Strip that week out of the numbers and the proportionality trend has fallen and is stable.

    Also, given the spike in numbers in the North West has been going up for a while now, if the data were reliable hospital admissions should be seriously rising. essentially the spike started 20 July.

    They aren't.

    The positives number is up to week 30 - which is at the end of July. We are in August.

    The reason that hospital numbers haven't spiked is also explained by the profile of the cases - a much lower number of the very elderly are currently getting COVID. The problem is that this will change when the disease becomes more prevalent.
    Nah....ripples....

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8588249/This-NOT-second-wave-Mini-Covid-19-outbreaks-UK-just-ripples-epidemic.html?ito=push-notification&ci=26285&si=13855726
    Those north west numbers are just a ripple?
    I think it is important to note that if we had the testing capacity we have now in March the positive numbers would be well over 50,000 per day
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    @ydoethur http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/constituencies/uk-parliament/plymouth-moor-view interesting.

    Trending away since 2015, when the majority was only 1026. What has happened there?

    I honestly don’t know! As I have demonstrated I thought it was marginal.

    I would guess, but I could be completely wrong, that it’s where most of the Royal Navy have their shore homes, and that Corbyn’s pacifism didn’t play too well. Labour’s vote went down in Plymouth Sutton and Devonport as well, although not as catastrophically.

    Labour’s vote absolutely cratered in Taunton Deane as well, and was down in Bath. Equally, however, it rose in Portsmouth South.
    Well I think you would hope Labour might recover some then, with a leader who is not Corbyn.

    I do think in these very marginal Brexit-voting seats, Corbyn was the factor that sealed the deal for many voters.

    I would expect Starmer will win some back just by not being Corbyn.
    Only when he convinces them Labour is no longer Labour. Thier brand is buggered. He needs to oversee a rebrand. New Labour, if you will.

    I'm sure all its activists can get behind that idea.

    If he rebrands as New Labour, he's completely buggered. The Left will explode and the Right will mock.

    Something like Ordinary Labour would serve better, especially given the collection of weirdos he's going to be up against.
    Classic Labour? Diet Labour? Labour Zero?
    My vote goes to Labour Max
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,921

    The lad's hit the ground running. I'm sure extolling the important legislative role played by *checks notes* Evgeny Lebedev, Claire Fox, Kate Hoey, Digby Jones, Zac Goldsmith and BJ's less famous brother will be a real vote winner.

    https://twitter.com/mark_mclaughlin/status/1290293547250270209?s=20

    Is Digby Jones disqualified on any grounds other than that you don't like what he says? He was head of the CBI, I'm assuming he has some credentials.
    Disqualified for being a complete rectum, another useless bag of wind.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    @ydoethur http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/constituencies/uk-parliament/plymouth-moor-view interesting.

    Trending away since 2015, when the majority was only 1026. What has happened there?

    I honestly don’t know! As I have demonstrated I thought it was marginal.

    I would guess, but I could be completely wrong, that it’s where most of the Royal Navy have their shore homes, and that Corbyn’s pacifism didn’t play too well. Labour’s vote went down in Plymouth Sutton and Devonport as well, although not as catastrophically.

    Labour’s vote absolutely cratered in Taunton Deane as well, and was down in Bath. Equally, however, it rose in Portsmouth South.
    Well I think you would hope Labour might recover some then, with a leader who is not Corbyn.

    I do think in these very marginal Brexit-voting seats, Corbyn was the factor that sealed the deal for many voters.

    I would expect Starmer will win some back just by not being Corbyn.
    Only when he convinces them Labour is no longer Labour. Thier brand is buggered. He needs to oversee a rebrand. New Labour, if you will.

    I'm sure all its activists can get behind that idea.

    If he rebrands as New Labour, he's completely buggered. The Left will explode and the Right will mock.

    Something like Ordinary Labour would serve better, especially given the collection of weirdos he's going to be up against.
    Classic Labour? Diet Labour? Labour Zero?
    I'd have thought 'Old Labour' would hit the sweet spot.
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    edited August 2020
    ydoethur said:

    @ydoethur http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/constituencies/uk-parliament/plymouth-moor-view interesting.

    Trending away since 2015, when the majority was only 1026. What has happened there?

    I honestly don’t know! As I have demonstrated I thought it was marginal.

    I would guess, but I could be completely wrong, that it’s where most of the Royal Navy have their shore homes, and that Corbyn’s pacifism didn’t play too well. Labour’s vote went down in Plymouth Sutton and Devonport as well, although not as catastrophically.

    Labour’s vote absolutely cratered in Taunton Deane as well, and was down in Bath. Equally, however, it rose in Portsmouth South.
    Plymouth Sutton & Devonport was a Labour gain in 2017 and retained in 2019. Plymouth Moor View was Labour-held until 2015 when Mercer won it as a surprise Tory gain. The 2019 Tory majority there might well flatter the Tories - we simply do not know big a swingback is likely as the Corbyn and Brexit factors disappear.
    Labour has now clearly established itself as the obvious anti-Tory option in Portsmouth South after winning the seat from third place in 2017. Pre-2015 it had been a LibDem seat with many Labour voters supporting them tactically - and doubtless some continued to do so in 2017. Rather the reverse of Brecon & Radnor!
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,376

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    @ydoethur http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/constituencies/uk-parliament/plymouth-moor-view interesting.

    Trending away since 2015, when the majority was only 1026. What has happened there?

    I honestly don’t know! As I have demonstrated I thought it was marginal.

    I would guess, but I could be completely wrong, that it’s where most of the Royal Navy have their shore homes, and that Corbyn’s pacifism didn’t play too well. Labour’s vote went down in Plymouth Sutton and Devonport as well, although not as catastrophically.

    Labour’s vote absolutely cratered in Taunton Deane as well, and was down in Bath. Equally, however, it rose in Portsmouth South.
    Well I think you would hope Labour might recover some then, with a leader who is not Corbyn.

    I do think in these very marginal Brexit-voting seats, Corbyn was the factor that sealed the deal for many voters.

    I would expect Starmer will win some back just by not being Corbyn.
    Only when he convinces them Labour is no longer Labour. Thier brand is buggered. He needs to oversee a rebrand. New Labour, if you will.

    I'm sure all its activists can get behind that idea.

    If he rebrands as New Labour, he's completely buggered. The Left will explode and the Right will mock.

    Something like Ordinary Labour would serve better, especially given the collection of weirdos he's going to be up against.
    Classic Labour? Diet Labour? Labour Zero?
    I'd have thought 'Old Labour' would hit the sweet spot.
    Ye Olde Labour. Tolpuddle Martyrs sold separately.
  • Options

    ydoethur said:

    @ydoethur http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/constituencies/uk-parliament/plymouth-moor-view interesting.

    Trending away since 2015, when the majority was only 1026. What has happened there?

    I honestly don’t know! As I have demonstrated I thought it was marginal.

    I would guess, but I could be completely wrong, that it’s where most of the Royal Navy have their shore homes, and that Corbyn’s pacifism didn’t play too well. Labour’s vote went down in Plymouth Sutton and Devonport as well, although not as catastrophically.

    Labour’s vote absolutely cratered in Taunton Deane as well, and was down in Bath. Equally, however, it rose in Portsmouth South.
    Well I think you would hope Labour might recover some then, with a leader who is not Corbyn.

    I do think in these very marginal Brexit-voting seats, Corbyn was the factor that sealed the deal for many voters.

    I would expect Starmer will win some back just by not being Corbyn.
    Only when he convinces them Labour is no longer Labour. Thier brand is buggered. He needs to oversee a rebrand. New Labour, if you will.

    I'm sure all its activists can get behind that idea.

    I've become increasingly convinced that the brand is as you say buggered. Plenty of signs of that here on Teesside where the party name literally repels voters of the kind who would have voted for Blair in their droves. Its not just Corbyn its all the people associated with Corbyn and the anti-aspiration vibe. I don't think SKS can convincingly pull off a pro-prosperity vibe and even if he gives a decent impression of doing so there will be a significant chunk of the party ready to attack people for not having been 100% loyal.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,415
    malcolmg said:

    The lad's hit the ground running. I'm sure extolling the important legislative role played by *checks notes* Evgeny Lebedev, Claire Fox, Kate Hoey, Digby Jones, Zac Goldsmith and BJ's less famous brother will be a real vote winner.

    https://twitter.com/mark_mclaughlin/status/1290293547250270209?s=20

    Is Digby Jones disqualified on any grounds other than that you don't like what he says? He was head of the CBI, I'm assuming he has some credentials.
    Disqualified for being a complete rectum, another useless bag of wind.
    If that were a relevant disqualification we'd lose the whole HOL, with fairly sizable chunks taken out of the HOC and Holyrood.
  • Options

    NEW THREAD

  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    This thread has been let go.
This discussion has been closed.