Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Print journalism needs a revolution to avoid a slow death: mic

1235

Comments

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620

    Is it meant to be Frederick Douglass?
    Ah thank you - there is ndeed a photo on the Wikipedia page which matches very well, including his natty necktie.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,585
    MrEd said:

    I'm going to buy that for Kinablu with the £10 I win off him when Trump gets re-elected
    And with your change?
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    My view is that the end point of our current constitutional upheavals is an Anglo-Welsh state. Scotland goes first, then Northern Ireland goes next, for a variety of reasons: (1) Scottish secession obviously breaks up the current British state and greatly encourages the nationalists; (2) Scotland is the NI Unionists' closest partner in the Union in terms both of geography and culture - it's abandonment of the state will leave them demoralised and isolated; (3) there's limited interest in Britain in retaining the province as it is, and this will presumably only lessen once it's left out on a limb; (4) ditching Northern Ireland rids the British Government of a bottomless money pit and removes one of the major obstacles to better relations with the EU.

    The English and the Welsh then sit down, ask if carrying on together is worth it, and probably conclude that it is. The two have been joined at the hip for seven centuries, are heavily integrated, and Wales has a weaker nationalist movement and a much stronger anti-devolution movement than Scotland does. That's not to say that this state of affairs will endure forever, but that's the way things are now and are likely to remain for some time.

    And so, after Scotland leaves the UK, rejoins the EU and the border posts and fences go up, we end up with three states occupying (as good as) three islands, and we can all do our own thing.
    If that happened (I don't think it will) England and Wales would end up rejoining the EU very quickly.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    I've spent much of my adult life being obese, which is not recommended for healthy lung function either, so I feel your pain. Although I imagine that did more damage to my joints. I'm just hoping that my slightly dodgy knees can take the abuse, knees being a common source of difficulty as one advances in years, of course.

    I think the central problem is that humans simply haven't had long enough to adapt to being bipedal, let alone having food readily and consistently available enough so that we don't need to lay down all our spare energy as blubber for times of famine. It'll all be so much easier in another 10 million years...
    I think its also a problem that people keep changing the idea of what works as a diet and in particular the overabundance of sugar and processed foods in quick and easy foods.

    I've yo-yo'd throughout my adult life. Changed my diet at the start of lockdown - trying for the first time what has ended up as a "keto" diet (high fat, very low carb) and cooking for myself every meal. So far this is working very well for me, I've lost 40 pounds so far this year but its hard to find ideas for anything convenient. Going to the supermarket and even "healthy" convenience food is normally selling itself on low-fat or fat-free which is the polar opposite of what I find is working for me. Very hard to find many high fat, carb-free convenient snacks.

    So far I've found pistachio nuts and pork scratchings.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620
    edited July 2020

    I think its also a problem that people keep changing the idea of what works as a diet and in particular the overabundance of sugar and processed foods in quick and easy foods.

    I've yo-yo'd throughout my adult life. Changed my diet at the start of lockdown - trying for the first time what has ended up as a "keto" diet (high fat, very low carb) and cooking for myself every meal. So far this is working very well for me, I've lost 40 pounds so far this year but its hard to find ideas for anything convenient. Going to the supermarket and even "healthy" convenience food is normally selling itself on low-fat or fat-free which is the polar opposite of what I find is working for me. Very hard to find many high fat, carb-free convenient snacks.

    So far I've found pistachio nuts and pork scratchings.
    Strips of marine mammal blubber? The Inuit swear by them, I believe.

    EDdit: s|orry, couldn't resist. But your comments about a keto diet did make me think of them, hunter gatherer and so on.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    LadyG said:

    If that happened (I don't think it will) England and Wales would end up rejoining the EU very quickly.
    Extremely unlikely.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Carnyx said:

    Strips of marine mammal blubber? The Inuit swear by them, I believe.
    Probably would be very good.

    I'll have to keep an eye out for that next time I'm at Morrisons. Not sure what aisle that would be in?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,839
    MrEd said:

    I'm going to buy that for Kinablu with the £10 I win off him when Trump gets re-elected
    FIFTY pounds.

    Trump wins - You win £50.
    Trump loses AND under 200 in the EC - I win £50.
    AOR - Flat.

    Remember?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620

    Probably would be very good.

    I'll have to keep an eye out for that next time I'm at Morrisons. Not sure what aisle that would be in?
    Actually might be a bit dodgy - concentration of pollutants. And I'm not even sure if it is legal in the UK - even seals might be protected.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,513
    Fishing said:

    That is the profile of a protest vote rather than a party that had convinced people ideologically - cf the Greens in the late 80s.

    I think some form of devolution was inevitable and right in the most centralised country in the democratic world, but, as I said below, how Blair did it - asymmetrically and obviously as a sop rather than because he genuinely believed in what he was doing - was almost certain to cause it to fail.
    France is surely more centralised than the UK.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    LadyG said:

    If that happened (I don't think it will) England and Wales would end up rejoining the EU very quickly.
    Have you seen Midsommar? I ask because it has a rare cinematic portrayal of a bloodeagle in what I think is a hen house. Which might be of interest to a lady newt-painter.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    edited July 2020

    I think its also a problem that people keep changing the idea of what works as a diet and in particular the overabundance of sugar and processed foods in quick and easy foods.

    I've yo-yo'd throughout my adult life. Changed my diet at the start of lockdown - trying for the first time what has ended up as a "keto" diet (high fat, very low carb) and cooking for myself every meal. So far this is working very well for me, I've lost 40 pounds so far this year but its hard to find ideas for anything convenient. Going to the supermarket and even "healthy" convenience food is normally selling itself on low-fat or fat-free which is the polar opposite of what I find is working for me. Very hard to find many high fat, carb-free convenient snacks.

    So far I've found pistachio nuts and pork scratchings.
    Fasting. Try it.

    It it amazing. You not only get the benefit of weight loss but you get a kind of euphoria by about day two, and your IQ goes up by 5-15 points. This is because the body no longer has to divert so much energy to digestion, so it gives all the spare energy to the brain (also the body is presuming there is a famine, so you need to be thinking hard and sharply about that next meal, and where it might come from).

    It is genuinely mindblowing. Silicon valley billionaires go on fasts when they need to crack a particularly difficult problem.

    I have found it hugely useful when I have a difficult newt to paint.

    And: we are meant to fast. The human body is superbly adapted to a famine-feast lifestyle, as that is how we evolved for a million years on the African plains. We didn't have three square meals a day, every day.

    We eat too much, too often.

    Finally, if you fast, it means you can eat whatever the fuck you like when you break the fast. Though don't overdo it on the first meal, or you will fall asleep straight after. It has happened to me.

    I fast 4 days out of 7 on average, now. I love it.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,367
    Fishing said:

    You think it has killed nationalism stone dead?
    As I say, it hasn't failed as far as I'm concerned.

    If you don't turn up to the debate (as the Tories refused to do), you can't really complain about how it pans out. I agree that Blair didn't have any real feeling for devolution, but plenty of Scottish Labour big beasts did (I don't include George Robertson, coiner of the stone dead meme; he has the political nous of an old kilt sock). However as the big beasts left the stage and SLab turned itself into a obstructive force against the SNP, devo died on its arse.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620

    Probably would be very good.

    I'll have to keep an eye out for that next time I'm at Morrisons. Not sure what aisle that would be in?
    Sudden thought: you could more economically replicate scratchings (and safer for your teeth) by baking strips of pork belly till fairly dry?
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,517
    stodge said:


    As a move away from centralisation from Westminster but keeping a long way from outright independence, it seems reasonable but we bump up against the WLQ as we always do.

    We always will until there is a federal UK, or no UK at all.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    rcs1000 said:

    Well said.
    Uplifting stuff, in theory. In practice if I were a corrupt government I'd go with jury trials every time, so easy to nobble with dark state resources at your disposal.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    LadyG said:

    If that happened (I don't think it will) England and Wales would end up rejoining the EU very quickly.
    Why? The net effect of Scotland falling off will simply be to tip the balance of the country (and we must bear in mind that England and Wales constitute approximately 90% thereof) in favour of people who vote Tory and people who voted Leave. Beyond that, there's also no desire, amongst anyone other than the more committed pro-EU minority, to go through years more wrangling over this topic, let alone accession negotiations. And I don't think they'd want us back either, at the very least not that fast.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,585
    stodge said:

    Just noted the latest Gravis poll in Pennsylvania which puts Biden up by just three - 48-45 compared to Fox News which gave Biden an 11-point advantage (50-39).

    Gravis also did polls in Michigan (Biden up 51-42) and Wisconsin (Biden up 50-42).

    Gravis notes undecided voters look to be breaking strongly for Biden.

    If they vote. Trump's camapign has to convince them that Biden is just as shit an option.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,850
    edited July 2020
    kinabalu said:

    That's all quite impressive compared to me. Then again, I have a quarter of a million fags inside of me so if we handicap for that I'm Mo Farah class.
    anyone who can do sub 20 for 5 K will do sub 45 for 10k . The equivalent is more like 42-43 mins for a 20 min 5K runner

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,513
    On the subject of the US, it's entirely possible that two of the four members of the "awkward squad" lose primary challenges in the next couple of weeks.

    Probably incrementally helpful to Biden at the margin.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    kinabalu said:

    FIFTY pounds.

    Trump wins - You win £50.
    Trump loses AND under 200 in the EC - I win £50.
    AOR - Flat.

    Remember?
    I hadn't remembered the sub-200 bit but happy with that :)
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    edited July 2020

    Extremely unlikely.
    If the UK was reduced to E&W we would be shrunken in every way, geographically, culturally, demographically, geopolitically, and also - most importantly - economically.

    Scottish independence by itself would be such a calamitous wrench it would send Scotland into Depression (and maybe default?) and England into deep recession, further years of turmoil (on top of Covid) would deter investors in both countries. Intra "UK" trade would suffer. It would be the hottest of messes.

    All sides would be mightily demoralised. Up north, a few ardent Scot Nats would be happy that their dream was realised, for most Scots this would then quickly turn sour as the economic reality (no central bank, no currency, huge deficit, newly hostile England as a neighbour) hit home, the Scots would desperately seek EU membership but that would take years even if the EU was utterly receptive (a moot point).

    Would Scotland be in a fiscal position to join the euro? Does newly indy Scotland want to give up so much sovereignty just after gaining it? The EU is Federalising: see their recent agreement to borrow debt mutually. This is a federal EU state finally emerging.

    It would need another referendum. Basically Scotland would have a decade of hell.

    The great slump in Scotland would spread south. London might benefit from a few finance and law firms fleeing Edinburgh but then London might be dead from Covid by then anyway. England would stagnate badly.

    At this point a Labour government would come along and say let's rejoin the EU, we're fucked now, what have we got to lose and at least we get to retire in the Algarve, and the referendum would pass.

    However, and this an important point, I think the horrors of Covid mean that Scots indy is unlikely in the next few years. The desire might by there, but the practicalities of our new poverty make it impossible.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    I think its also a problem that people keep changing the idea of what works as a diet and in particular the overabundance of sugar and processed foods in quick and easy foods.

    I've yo-yo'd throughout my adult life. Changed my diet at the start of lockdown - trying for the first time what has ended up as a "keto" diet (high fat, very low carb) and cooking for myself every meal. So far this is working very well for me, I've lost 40 pounds so far this year but its hard to find ideas for anything convenient. Going to the supermarket and even "healthy" convenience food is normally selling itself on low-fat or fat-free which is the polar opposite of what I find is working for me. Very hard to find many high fat, carb-free convenient snacks.

    So far I've found pistachio nuts and pork scratchings.
    Whilst I'm open to the idea that slightly different solutions work for different people (especially if one has to take account of specific food intolerances,) the idea of what works as a sustainable pattern for healthy eating (as distinct from one of these fad diets) actually hasn't changed fundamentally, and may most succinctly be described as "moderation." And the reason why so many people struggle with moderation is that they get into bad habits, which are then very hard to break. My Jabba the Hutt physique was down mainly to the completely unrestrained consumption of biscuits.

    The best way to lose weight is to eat meals that are filling but low in energy density (low fat, low sugar,) and the best way to keep it off is not to get too carried away on the same things. The mass market slimming organisations (Weight Watchers and Slimming World) both steer people in this direction. Exercise is helpful - it enables you to lose weight more rapidly, and to enjoy more treats once the excess weight is off - but has to be regarded, primarily, as something that's worthwhile in its own right. The hard slog of controlling one's weight is achieved through good nutrition, and that in turn is only possible when you ditch the bad habits.

    If that sounds like I'm making out that it's all so terribly easy, then that's absolutely not the case. If not getting fat were easy then something approaching two-thirds of the entire population would not be overweight or obese.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,513
    LadyG said:

    Fasting. Try it.

    It it amazing. You not only get the benefit of weight loss but you get a kind of euphoria by about day two, and your IQ goes up by 5-15 points. This is because the body no longer has to divert so much energy to digestion, so it gives all the spare energy to the brain (also the body is presuming there is a famine, so you need to be thinking hard and sharply about that next meal, and where it might come from).

    It is genuinely mindblowing. Silicon valley billionaires go on fasts when they need to crack a particularly difficult problem.

    I have found it hugely useful when I have a difficult newt to paint.

    And: we are meant to fast. The human body is superbly adapted to a famine-feast lifestyle, as that is how we evolved for a million years on the African plains. We didn't have three square meals a day, every day.

    We eat too much, too often.

    Finally, if you fast, it means you can eat whatever the fuck you like when you break the fast. Though don't overdo it on the first meal, or you will fall asleep straight after. It has happened to me.

    I fast 4 days out of 7 on average, now. I love it.
    What about calories from alcohol?
  • Fundamentally the only way to lose or gain weight is to eat less calories than you consume, or do lots of exercise to account for eating too much. As long as you're in a calorie deficit you will lose weight given time.

    If fasting is the way you do that then great.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,513

    If they vote. Trump's camapign has to convince them that Biden is just as shit an option.
    Biden is a terrible option, a monumentally poor candidate.

    But he doesn't forment division. Which, I'm sad to say, Trump does.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    rcs1000 said:

    What about calories from alcohol?
    Really good red wine, eg North Macedonian Barovo Tikves Single Vineyard*, isn't a food stuff, it is medicine. And is counted as such

    *It's also bloody good. Like a grand superTuscan but half the price
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,839
    LadyG said:

    I subscribe to the Times, the FT, the Economist and the Fortean Times.

    I don't subscribe to the Telegraph but for some reason I still get it free because I subbed years ago.

    TBH I would not especially miss any of them, and I may let most of them fall away.

    I stopped paying my BBC licence fee a couple of months ago.Very liberating. Fuck the BBC.

    Liberating. Terrific. But if others follow suit it will leave a funding gap and before too long there will be people all over the country, some elderly, some poor, some just a little unadventurous (no crime), who used to count on the BBC as being there for them, supplying them with something familiar and comforting and trusted each day, who will have this whipped out from under them. Not so terrific for them. And what do we say to these people? People like my mum who likes to watch endless repeats of Bergerac (or indeed anything with prime-of-life John Nettles in it). "Tough titty. Try YouTube." Is that what we tell them? If so, what sort of society are we becoming? C'mon. Sense of community please.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,833
    Up to today I hadn't realised they were travellers. That being the case I am now even more convinced that they have been told to expect a suspended sentence or at most an extremely light one. The reason for that is they have been let free on bail.....anyone exoecting a life sentence has nothing to lose by doing a runner and its not like they come from a community that is likely to inform the police of their current whereabouts.

    So a) they are already out the country or b) they got a nod and a wink that there would be minimal sentence imposed.

    Frankly this is a bet I would love to lose
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,513
    kinabalu said:

    Liberating. Terrific. But if others follow suit it will leave a funding gap and before too long there will be people all over the country, some elderly, some poor, some just a little unadventurous (no crime), who used to count on the BBC as being there for them, supplying them with something familiar and comforting and trusted each day, who will have this whipped out from under them. Not so terrific for them. And what do we say to these people? People like my mum who likes to watch endless repeats of Bergerac (or indeed anything with prime-of-life John Nettles in it). "Tough titty. Try YouTube." Is that what we tell them? If so, what sort of society are we becoming? C'mon. Sense of community please.
    We become a society which gets streaming content on demand from YouTube.

    That doesn't actually sound *that* bad
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    rcs1000 said:

    Biden is a terrible option, a monumentally poor candidate.

    But he doesn't forment division. Which, I'm sad to say, Trump does.
    The best way for Trump I think is not to denigrate Biden per se as he has enough of a track record as not to scare people. It is to portray him as weak and / or mentally incompetent to stop other more radical factions controlling the show
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,513
    Pagan2 said:

    Up to today I hadn't realised they were travellers. That being the case I am now even more convinced that they have been told to expect a suspended sentence or at most an extremely light one. The reason for that is they have been let free on bail.....anyone exoecting a life sentence has nothing to lose by doing a runner and its not like they come from a community that is likely to inform the police of their current whereabouts.

    So a) they are already out the country or b) they got a nod and a wink that there would be minimal sentence imposed.

    Frankly this is a bet I would love to lose

    £50, don't forget our bet.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    LadyG said:

    However, and this an important point, I think the horrors of Covid mean that Scots indy is unlikely in the next few years. The desire might by there, but the practicalities of our new poverty make it impossible.

    Almost the whole of the political and business class of the country told the electorate that leaving the EU would be calamitous. The electorate voted to leave anyway.

    The main obstacle to independence isn't the economy, it's Boris Johnson's stonewalling. The Scottish independence vote most likely happens 6-12 months after the Conservatives next go into Opposition at Westminster.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,833
    kinabalu said:

    Liberating. Terrific. But if others follow suit it will leave a funding gap and before too long there will be people all over the country, some elderly, some poor, some just a little unadventurous (no crime), who used to count on the BBC as being there for them, supplying them with something familiar and comforting and trusted each day, who will have this whipped out from under them. Not so terrific for them. And what do we say to these people? People like my mum who likes to watch endless repeats of Bergerac (or indeed anything with prime-of-life John Nettles in it). "Tough titty. Try YouTube." Is that what we tell them? If so, what sort of society are we becoming? C'mon. Sense of community please.
    Perhaps you as a kind doting son could do what I did and let her have the logon to your amazon prime or netflix....those services are accessible from a number of devices.

    If you have neither help her set up an account for herself it is still cheaper than the bbc extortion by about 50% and frankly then she wont have no choice but to watch ghastly lifestyle programs unless she wants to.

    Your appeal to community is really an appeal for mediocrity , show the poor old lady some better options
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,833
    rcs1000 said:

    £50, don't forget our bet.
    I in fact mentioned the bet Robert, I hope that wasn't an insinuation that I might do
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    kinabalu said:

    Liberating. Terrific. But if others follow suit it will leave a funding gap and before too long there will be people all over the country, some elderly, some poor, some just a little unadventurous (no crime), who used to count on the BBC as being there for them, supplying them with something familiar and comforting and trusted each day, who will have this whipped out from under them. Not so terrific for them. And what do we say to these people? People like my mum who likes to watch endless repeats of Bergerac (or indeed anything with prime-of-life John Nettles in it). "Tough titty. Try YouTube." Is that what we tell them? If so, what sort of society are we becoming? C'mon. Sense of community please.
    OMG so they will have to go from watching Strictly Come Dancing and The Voice UK (BBC) to Britain's Got Talent and Love Island UK (ITV)

    I somehow feel the poor elderly pensioners of the nation will endure this horrific rupture.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,839
    MrEd said:

    I hadn't remembered the sub-200 bit but happy with that :)
    Cutting you some slack, big softy that I am. I now have to be VERY right to win.
  • How is everyone's Saturday
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,540

    Almost the whole of the political and business class of the country told the electorate that leaving the EU would be calamitous. The electorate voted to leave anyway.

    The main obstacle to independence isn't the economy, it's Boris Johnson's stonewalling. The Scottish independence vote most likely happens 6-12 months after the Conservatives next go into Opposition at Westminster.
    Does Scottish Independence not require the referendum to happen with the Tories in power at Westminster? The "we didn't vote for the Tories" factor is a big part of the equation, in my opinion.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    How is everyone's Saturday

    Digging out bindweed when it isn't raining, doing a navigation exam when it is.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620
    tlg86 said:

    Does Scottish Independence not require the referendum to happen with the Tories in power at Westminster? The "we didn't vote for the Tories" factor is a big part of the equation, in my opinion.
    The implications of 4 more years of Mr Johnson in power are worth considering.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,513
    Pagan2 said:

    I in fact mentioned the bet Robert, I hope that wasn't an insinuation that I might do
    I know, I'm just super excited to win £50. Staying out on bail (when it had previously been granted) is not that unusual.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,142
    edited July 2020
    rcs1000 said:

    France is surely more centralised than the UK.
    Its local government has more discretion and less imposed control than we have from Whitehall.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    Almost the whole of the political and business class of the country told the electorate that leaving the EU would be calamitous. The electorate voted to leave anyway.

    The main obstacle to independence isn't the economy, it's Boris Johnson's stonewalling. The Scottish independence vote most likely happens 6-12 months after the Conservatives next go into Opposition at Westminster.
    The difference is we are DEFINITELY about to crash into a whole new world of economic pain (above and beyond anything like No Deal Brexit, but that might be added in to the mix, just for fun). This is not a threat like Project Fear, it is our new reality looming.

    This is going to happen in the next 6 months. It's in the post.

    Now it is possible the economic situation will be so harsh the Scots will think fuck it, it can't get any worse, let's take the risk of worsening the pain even with 15% unemployment, but my reading of human nature says this is not probable.

    Besides, I agree with you, with the polls as they are Boris is just going to stonewall. He won't want to go down as the PM who lost the union, he will simply refuse a vote and hope the SNP blows up before 2024. And if they don't and Scotland still wants indy, then prime minister Starmer or Sunak will have to deal with the growing constitutional crisis.

    But by then we could all be living in a post-plague robot world, so who knows.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    tlg86 said:

    Does Scottish Independence not require the referendum to happen with the Tories in power at Westminster? The "we didn't vote for the Tories" factor is a big part of the equation, in my opinion.
    No. If the Scots vote for the SNP to seek a new referendum and the Tories simply refuse to let it happen then the resentment will be stoked up and boil over at the first opportunity even if its when Labour have just taken over.

    The fact that the Tories have gone won't reverse their resentment at being ignored and mistreated for years and the risk it could happen again in the future.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,839
    Pagan2 said:

    Perhaps you as a kind doting son could do what I did and let her have the logon to your amazon prime or netflix....those services are accessible from a number of devices.

    If you have neither help her set up an account for herself it is still cheaper than the bbc extortion by about 50% and frankly then she wont have no choice but to watch ghastly lifestyle programs unless she wants to.

    Your appeal to community is really an appeal for mediocrity , show the poor old lady some better options
    I don't see BBC TV and Radio as mediocre. In fact if it went subscription I would be prepared to pay more than the current LF.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    Jeez. Just noticed.

    America had nearly 80,000 new cases yesterday
    Brazil had nearly 60,000
    India had nearly 50,000

    And it was a global record of 290,000 new cases overall
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    And so cycling mania gathers pace.

    We would do well to remember at this juncture that, back in March/April time, cyclists and runners were being demonised (largely, I suspect, by the same censorious types who are a bit too eager to scream about people not wearing masks nowadays) as nasty, selfish plague spreaders whose heavy breathing was responsible for butchering legions of defenceless old ladies with lethal aerosol clouds.

    Now, just a few months on (and with our knowledge of the relative safety of outdoor environments and the risk of the virus to fat people having advanced somewhat,) cyclists are Heroes of the Revolution. Use of bikes for exercise and transportation alike is now deemed so desirable that our towns and cities should be redesigned to encourage it.

    Funny how received wisdom so often turns out to be total bollocks, ain't it?
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    LadyG said:

    Jeez. Just noticed.

    America had nearly 80,000 new cases yesterday
    Brazil had nearly 60,000
    India had nearly 50,000

    And it was a global record of 290,000 new cases overall

    Said record liable to be a gross underestimate, of course.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,585

    How is everyone's Saturday

    Weather has been shite, so some catch-up TV whilst sorting out the ID for a bunch of recently trapped moths. Plus, thousands of images to file for submitting to the County Moth Recorder at year end.

    As exciting as THAT! But going out to a top restaurant tonight.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,513
    LadyG said:

    The difference is we are DEFINITELY about to crash into a whole new world of economic pain (above and beyond anything like No Deal Brexit, but that might be added in to the mix, just for fun). This is not a threat like Project Fear, it is our new reality looming.

    This is going to happen in the next 6 months. It's in the post.

    Now it is possible the economic situation will be so harsh the Scots will think fuck it, it can't get any worse, let's take the risk of worsening the pain even with 15% unemployment, but my reading of human nature says this is not probable.

    Besides, I agree with you, with the polls as they are Boris is just going to stonewall. He won't want to go down as the PM who lost the union, he will simply refuse a vote and hope the SNP blows up before 2024. And if they don't and Scotland still wants indy, then prime minister Starmer or Sunak will have to deal with the growing constitutional crisis.

    But by then we could all be living in a post-plague robot world, so who knows.
    Revolutions happen for one of two reasons: people think "things are great, we can afford this", or "things are awful, how can they possibly get any worse".

    Hence the 17th Century, with the mini ice age, and collapsing crop yields, saw an enormous uptick in revolutions. (See Parker's magisterial Global Crisis.)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,839
    rcs1000 said:

    We become a society which gets streaming content on demand from YouTube.

    That doesn't actually sound *that* bad
    Hmm. Maybe. But we are becoming so atomized and although it's to some extent inevitable I think it should be resisted in places.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    How is everyone's Saturday

    Went out for lunch earlier, Dad came to town. First time I've actually seen him (as distinct from via a screen) since March. Very good.

    Now sat back in the flat watching it rain and getting fidgety. Not so good.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,513

    No. If the Scots vote for the SNP to seek a new referendum and the Tories simply refuse to let it happen then the resentment will be stoked up and boil over at the first opportunity even if its when Labour have just taken over.

    The fact that the Tories have gone won't reverse their resentment at being ignored and mistreated for years and the risk it could happen again in the future.
    That's Sturgeon's strategy: get rebuffed by Johnson, and be able to portray this as "the Brits hate the Scots so much they won't even let us vote."
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,513

    And so cycling mania gathers pace.

    We would do well to remember at this juncture that, back in March/April time, cyclists and runners were being demonised (largely, I suspect, by the same censorious types who are a bit too eager to scream about people not wearing masks nowadays) as nasty, selfish plague spreaders whose heavy breathing was responsible for butchering legions of defenceless old ladies with lethal aerosol clouds.

    Now, just a few months on (and with our knowledge of the relative safety of outdoor environments and the risk of the virus to fat people having advanced somewhat,) cyclists are Heroes of the Revolution. Use of bikes for exercise and transportation alike is now deemed so desirable that our towns and cities should be redesigned to encourage it.

    Funny how received wisdom so often turns out to be total bollocks, ain't it?
    I don't think those two things are contradictory.

    We've been keen to increase the amount of cycling for a long time - whether for environmental, personal health or other reasons.

    And early on in the CV-19 epidemic, we were being extra cautious.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,517
    rcs1000 said:

    France is surely more centralised than the UK.
    It is now, but I wouldn't say it was between the Mauroy reforms of 1982 and the devolution of 1997. A matter of opinion, though.
  • It's either No Deal (which might result in Tory remainers going Starmer or LD) or capitulation deal (which results in Johnson coalition splitting).

    This seems like the highest the Tories will poll, at their GE19 level which to be fair is still very good.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,839
    LadyG said:

    OMG so they will have to go from watching Strictly Come Dancing and The Voice UK (BBC) to Britain's Got Talent and Love Island UK (ITV)

    I somehow feel the poor elderly pensioners of the nation will endure this horrific rupture.
    Even that example, selected to be damaging to my argument, illustrates something of what I mean. There's a world of difference between Strictly and Love Island. The former is capable of genuinely lifting national spirits - e.g. the Ed Balls "salsa" pls see below - whereas Love Island generates nothing but high profile suicides.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Czqtjk_iGFU
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    kinabalu said:

    Liberating. Terrific. But if others follow suit it will leave a funding gap and before too long there will be people all over the country, some elderly, some poor, some just a little unadventurous (no crime), who used to count on the BBC as being there for them, supplying them with something familiar and comforting and trusted each day, who will have this whipped out from under them. Not so terrific for them. And what do we say to these people? People like my mum who likes to watch endless repeats of Bergerac (or indeed anything with prime-of-life John Nettles in it). "Tough titty. Try YouTube." Is that what we tell them? If so, what sort of society are we becoming? C'mon. Sense of community please.
    Yes try YouTube. Or Amazon Prime. Or Netflix. Or a plethora of other options.

    I see no reason why people who don't want to watch the BBC should be compelled to pay for it, just so others can watch Bergerac. That's not community.

    The problem with the BBC now is that it is just crap. YouTube, Netflix etc are superior at what they do. Compelling people to pay for an inferior option is not a long-term solution.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,013
    Excellent article, and agree totally. Though I doubt whether micro payments will prove a get rich quick scheme. The newspaper's central difficulty is that there is space for the 24 hour instant news and update service, which can only be online, radio or telly; and there is space for the longer term considered view provided by The Spectator (flourishing), Economist (less good than it was) and New Statesman (pretty good) and such stuff is popular in hard copy.

    For loads of people hard copy is still the preferred way of reading anything medium length or long, and when you pay for it you feel you are getting something you can handle and even keep.

    But there isn't a lot of room for the daily newspaper, which used to be the 'first draft of history' but no longer has that capacity or desire, can't be first with the story because someone else online will be, and has gone out of date by the time you read it.

    And when a newspaper has something important and distinctive to say you will usually see it referred to or summarised on PB or somewhere in Twitterland hours before the newspaper has got to your increasingly impoverished newsagent.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    rcs1000 said:

    That's Sturgeon's strategy: get rebuffed by Johnson, and be able to portray this as "the Brits hate the Scots so much they won't even let us vote."
    And some here gleefully want to play into her hands and have the gall to call themselves "unionists"
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,356
    IanB2 said:

    Its local government has more discretion and less imposed control than we have from Whitehall.
    ...and more corruption. I must remember to give the Mayor that bung to get my planning permission through.
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,381
    Carnyx said:

    The implications of 4 more years of Mr Johnson in power are worth considering.
    I doubt a Labour government would agree to one has soon as they got elected though. They'd want at least 2 years to demonstrate "all the good things we are doing for Scotland", and hope any built up resentment would recede in that time period.
  • Hi @Mexicanpete, how's it going mate
  • @kinabalu I sent you a PM
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    It's either No Deal (which might result in Tory remainers going Starmer or LD) or capitulation deal (which results in Johnson coalition splitting).

    This seems like the highest the Tories will poll, at their GE19 level which to be fair is still very good.

    That's what people were saying before Halloween and look what happened: Boris got a deal he sold as a great new deal to his supporters.

    I expect history will repeat itself.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    kinabalu said:

    I don't see BBC TV and Radio as mediocre. In fact if it went subscription I would be prepared to pay more than the current LF.
    Good for you. They should do that then and you can do that and everyone's happy and you can continue to fund Antiques Roadshow or whatever else it is you love.

    Just don't compel the rest of us to buy subscriptions by law if we want to watch any other TV live.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    rcs1000 said:

    I don't think those two things are contradictory.

    We've been keen to increase the amount of cycling for a long time - whether for environmental, personal health or other reasons.

    And early on in the CV-19 epidemic, we were being extra cautious.
    Early on in the pandemic, a lot of people were being hysterical and very nasty. They wanted people doing exercise shot with crossbows and such like.

    Later on in the pandemic, the same people are still being hysterical and very nasty. They've just switched hobby horses. Now they want people who dislike mask wearing shot with crossbows and such like. They were wrong about exercise and they might yet turn out to be wrong about masks, but that's entirely incidental to the main motivation which is to feel self-righteous and to enjoy bullying others.

    Give it another few months and the same people will be bludgeoning and shaming the enemy into submission for not balancing a fluorescent green hexagon on their heads, or whatever the infraction du jour happens to be.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    I doubt a Labour government would agree to one has soon as they got elected though. They'd want at least 2 years to demonstrate "all the good things we are doing for Scotland", and hope any built up resentment would recede in that time period.
    That makes the heroic assumption that Labour can get all the way to an overall majority, rather than being critically dependent on SNP votes.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,356

    That's what people were saying before Halloween and look what happened: Boris got a deal he sold as a great new deal to his supporters.

    I expect history will repeat itself.
    He sold us a pup. He will sell us another in January.
  • That makes the heroic assumption that Labour can get all the way to an overall majority, rather than being critically dependent on SNP votes.
    They won't be as reliant on the SNP if they can help the Lib Dems to win a few of their 100 target seats
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,616
    nichomar said:

    All that time alone, the damaged joints in later life. Join a club or society and get out and meet people
    Who's to say he doesnt? And different things work for different people, even finding enjoyment in jogging which I personally find a hell of a grind.

    Each to their own. I doubt many would advise posting on PB to relax but it works.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,540

    They won't be as reliant on the SNP if they can help the Lib Dems to win a few of their 100 target seats
    You either need their support, or you don't. The numbers count for little.
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,381

    That makes the heroic assumption that Labour can get all the way to an overall majority, rather than being critically dependent on SNP votes.
    I think that's what they'd offer Sturgeon if they needed SNP votes and were even open to a deal with them. If that failed, SKS could just say "we tried to form a government, and we respected the principle of a second indyref, but Sturgeon's demands were unreasonable. Not our fault the SNP *joined with the Tories* to vote down our Queen's Speech."
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,616

    This is a boney fidee shit painting, not even redeemed by crude folkiness.

    https://twitter.com/McNaughtonArt/status/1286327028807905282?s=20

    'Internationally acclaimed for his patriotic paintings such as The Forgotten Man. #MAGA'

    Saw a piece on this chap on Colbert years ago. Let's just say subtlety of message is not his artistic aim.
  • DidymousDidymous Posts: 2
    In 1996 the Met Office had just started publishing weather forecasts on-line and were seeking ways to monetise personal forecasts using micro payments, but there were no obvious ways to achieve this. Following a meeting with them we outlined a possible way to do this and IBM subsequently patented the method proposed. "the present invention solves the problem of effecting low cost transactions in association with the services provided"

    https://patents.google.com/patent/JP2003050922A/en?q=H04L12/1457&inventor=Derrick+John+Byford

    Twenty four years later!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,513

    Early on in the pandemic, a lot of people were being hysterical and very nasty. They wanted people doing exercise shot with crossbows and such like.

    Later on in the pandemic, the same people are still being hysterical and very nasty. They've just switched hobby horses. Now they want people who dislike mask wearing shot with crossbows and such like. They were wrong about exercise and they might yet turn out to be wrong about masks, but that's entirely incidental to the main motivation which is to feel self-righteous and to enjoy bullying others.

    Give it another few months and the same people will be bludgeoning and shaming the enemy into submission for not balancing a fluorescent green hexagon on their heads, or whatever the infraction du jour happens to be.
    I don't want anyone shot for not wearing a mask.

    But all the "anti mask" research is about protecting yourself from the virus. Which entirely misses the point. You wear a mask - just as a surgeon wears a mask - to stop *you* spreading the virus.

    It's really not complicated.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,839

    Good for you. They should do that then and you can do that and everyone's happy and you can continue to fund Antiques Roadshow or whatever else it is you love.

    Just don't compel the rest of us to buy subscriptions by law if we want to watch any other TV live.
    It's the LAW compelling you and you should comply unless and until it is changed. We are one nation under the law.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620

    They won't be as reliant on the SNP if they can help the Lib Dems to win a few of their 100 target seats
    And remember the LDs might be tempted into coalition with the Tories again.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,839

    @kinabalu I sent you a PM

    Yes and I'm stumped for an answer. :smile:
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,540

    Early on in the pandemic, a lot of people were being hysterical and very nasty. They wanted people doing exercise shot with crossbows and such like.

    Later on in the pandemic, the same people are still being hysterical and very nasty. They've just switched hobby horses. Now they want people who dislike mask wearing shot with crossbows and such like. They were wrong about exercise and they might yet turn out to be wrong about masks, but that's entirely incidental to the main motivation which is to feel self-righteous and to enjoy bullying others.

    Give it another few months and the same people will be bludgeoning and shaming the enemy into submission for not balancing a fluorescent green hexagon on their heads, or whatever the infraction du jour happens to be.
    It's obvious what it will be: doing your bit for the economy. Public sector workers, of course, will be exempt.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,713
    kinabalu said:

    I don't see BBC TV and Radio as mediocre. In fact if it went subscription I would be prepared to pay more than the current LF.
    TV Licence Fee = TV Poll Tax!
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,381

    They won't be as reliant on the SNP if they can help the Lib Dems to win a few of their 100 target seats
    I think if Labour can win 300+ seats they could probably form a government without needing SNP support, if the Lib Dems made a handful of gains as well. They could definitely do it with 310.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,839

    Yes try YouTube. Or Amazon Prime. Or Netflix. Or a plethora of other options.

    I see no reason why people who don't want to watch the BBC should be compelled to pay for it, just so others can watch Bergerac. That's not community.

    The problem with the BBC now is that it is just crap. YouTube, Netflix etc are superior at what they do. Compelling people to pay for an inferior option is not a long-term solution.
    Bergerac is no longer on the BBC. You need UK Drama to be able to see repeats.

    Here's a classic scene from its heyday -

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVshpj2jbRE
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,839

    TV Licence Fee = TV Poll Tax!
    So you need to riot in Trafalgar Square about it then.

    Otherwise - hand in pocket and pay up.
  • I think if Labour can win 300+ seats they could probably form a government without needing SNP support, if the Lib Dems made a handful of gains as well. They could definitely do it with 310.
    http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/labour

    Labour seats on 202 seats, to achieve 310 seats they'd need to make 108 gains.

    108 gains would need a swing of 9%, more than Blair achieved in 1997 which doesn't seem very likely to me.

    However, realistically they could probably get away with more like 290 seats, a 7% swing. Even a terrible night for the SNP would result in a Labour minority Government, it would seem.

    If the Lib Dems can even get into the 20s (Lib Dem target 13 has a 4280 majority), that number tumbles.

    We really need to get it on the left, the Lib Dems doing well helps us.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,850
    edited July 2020
    kinabalu said:

    Bergerac is no longer on the BBC. You need UK Drama to be able to see repeats.

    Here's a classic scene from its heyday -

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVshpj2jbRE
    He went on in his late police career to Midsomer
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,321
    Carnyx said:

    And remember the LDs might be tempted into coalition with the Tories again.
    Its not going to happen with a pro Brexit Tory party. More chance of a Labour Tory coalition!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,839

    That's what people were saying before Halloween and look what happened: Boris got a deal he sold as a great new deal to his supporters.

    I expect history will repeat itself.
    It will. "Boris" will indeed get a deal and he will indeed it sell it to his supporters as being "great". Nothing more certain. Wish there was a suitable BF market to clean up on.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,568
    kinabalu said:

    Bergerac is no longer on the BBC. You need UK Drama to be able to see repeats.

    Here's a classic scene from its heyday -

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVshpj2jbRE
    It is spoken quietly, but UKTV is a substantially BBC owned joint venture, is it not?

    Not making a particular point about the BBC's future in this, just pointing that one out.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,536

    And so cycling mania gathers pace.

    We would do well to remember at this juncture that, back in March/April time, cyclists and runners were being demonised (largely, I suspect, by the same censorious types who are a bit too eager to scream about people not wearing masks nowadays) as nasty, selfish plague spreaders whose heavy breathing was responsible for butchering legions of defenceless old ladies with lethal aerosol clouds.

    Now, just a few months on (and with our knowledge of the relative safety of outdoor environments and the risk of the virus to fat people having advanced somewhat,) cyclists are Heroes of the Revolution. Use of bikes for exercise and transportation alike is now deemed so desirable that our towns and cities should be redesigned to encourage it.

    Funny how received wisdom so often turns out to be total bollocks, ain't it?
    Some cyclists and joggers were criticised, and rightly so, for their loutish and selfish behaviour at the time. For example taking their exercise in crowded residential areas and expecting everyone else to make way for them.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,839
    Pro_Rata said:

    It is spoken quietly, but UKTV is a substantially BBC owned joint venture, is it not?

    Not making a particular point about the BBC's future in this, just pointing that one out.
    Really? I did not know that. But it figures when I think about it. The quality is quite high.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,839

    He went on in his late police career to Midsomer
    Yep. My mum loves that too. ITV unfortunately - but it stars Nettles and that's the main thing.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    rcs1000 said:

    That's Sturgeon's strategy: get rebuffed by Johnson, and be able to portray this as "the Brits hate the Scots so much they won't even let us vote."
    She doesn't really need a strategy any more. The number of independence supporters is so great that the Union is already beyond saving.

    Any concessions to the Scottish Government are banked and then more are demanded. No concessions can ever be sufficient, of course, if your ultimate aim is full sovereignty and anything less is portrayed as an insult to Scotland.

    Any concessions that are withheld are, on the other hand... portrayed as an insult to Scotland.

    The independence supporters, of course, agree with all of this. As far as they are concerned, Scotland is a colony, the UK Government is the oppressor, and everything it has done and ever will do is an insult to Scotland.

    There is no way to counter this conviction, especially given that Scotland has begun to elect, and will continue to elect until independence, an endless series of nationalist governments. The SNP is too strong to be beaten, and in any event the Unionist parties are hopelessly divided and show no interest in even trying.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620

    Some cyclists and joggers were criticised, and rightly so, for their loutish and selfish behaviour at the time. For example taking their exercise in crowded residential areas and expecting everyone else to make way for them.
    The ones I encountered didn't even wait for others to make way for them! Just went on within 1 metre.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Some cyclists and joggers were criticised, and rightly so, for their loutish and selfish behaviour at the time. For example taking their exercise in crowded residential areas and expecting everyone else to make way for them.
    Pre-pandemic very visible portion of both running & cycling community were public nuisances and much disliked by pedestrians and motorists.

    Since the pandemic started, the asshole cyclists are not quite so annoying BUT the asshole runners more than make up for it.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Some cyclists and joggers were criticised, and rightly so, for their loutish and selfish behaviour at the time. For example taking their exercise in crowded residential areas and expecting everyone else to make way for them.
    Such isolated examples typically being used as a weapon with which to beat all of them about the head, of course.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620

    She doesn't really need a strategy any more. The number of independence supporters is so great that the Union is already beyond saving.

    Any concessions to the Scottish Government are banked and then more are demanded. No concessions can ever be sufficient, of course, if your ultimate aim is full sovereignty and anything less is portrayed as an insult to Scotland.

    Any concessions that are withheld are, on the other hand... portrayed as an insult to Scotland.

    The independence supporters, of course, agree with all of this. As far as they are concerned, Scotland is a colony, the UK Government is the oppressor, and everything it has done and ever will do is an insult to Scotland.

    There is no way to counter this conviction, especially given that Scotland has begun to elect, and will continue to elect until independence, an endless series of nationalist governments. The SNP is too strong to be beaten, and in any event the Unionist parties are hopelessly divided and show no interest in even trying.
    More to it than that.

    Brexit.
This discussion has been closed.