Wouldn't encouraging masking in ALL enclosed situations AND outdoors when closer than six feet, actually help the economy?
Certainly would personally feels better about going out & about & popping into stores & shops IF masking compliance was higher. And it is going up here in Seattle, but still a ways to go.
Knowing the English mentality, no it wouldn't. A lot of people might stubbornly stay at home as a way of protesting against the facemask rule. It's probably different in other countries, and in Scotland and Wales. Also, "hell is other people" is a surprisingly popular maxim in England in my experience, unlike virtually everywhere else on the planet.
As far as I know no legal instrument has been passed to mandate masks in shops therefore the police can try and fine and we should all say charge me with an offence or go fornicate officer
Actually Regulations were passed by the government under the Regulations (Control of Diseases) Act 1984 this week giving the police full legal authority to impose a £100 fine for not wearing a mask in a shop
Then they will row back on it as there is too much resistance, shops wont enforce it either because those that do will lose custom. Another shit law from a shit government that will be largely ignored. Never pass a law you cant enforce
I don't understand all this stuff about how wearing a face covering when in a shop is going to be unenforceable. Here in Germany very few people were wearing them, then they were made compulsory and everybody wore them. There were no riots, nobody called the police, nobody is refusing to go shopping as a protest.
Shops just put up signs at entrances to remind people.
I did see a person once who'd forgotten, he was reminded by another shopper by pointing at his own mask, and maskless shopper put his mask on.
What's the problem? What on earth do people imagine is going to happen?
Wouldn't encouraging masking in ALL enclosed situations AND outdoors when closer than six feet, actually help the economy?
Certainly would personally feels better about going out & about & popping into stores & shops IF masking compliance was higher. And it is going up here in Seattle, but still a ways to go.
Knowing the English mentality, no it wouldn't. A lot of people might stubbornly stay at home as a way of protesting against the facemask rule. It's probably different in other countries, and in Scotland and Wales. Also, "hell is other people" is a surprisingly popular maxim in England in my experience, unlike virtually everywhere else on the planet.
As far as I know no legal instrument has been passed to mandate masks in shops therefore the police can try and fine and we should all say charge me with an offence or go fornicate officer
Actually Regulations were passed by the government under the Regulations (Control of Diseases) Act 1984 this week giving the police full legal authority to impose a £100 fine for not wearing a mask in a shop
Then they will row back on it as there is too much resistance, shops wont enforce it either because those that do will lose custom. Another shit law from a shit government that will be largely ignored. Never pass a law you cant enforce
I don't understand all this stuff about how wearing a face covering when in a shop is going to be unenforceable. Here in Germany very few people were wearing them, then they were made compulsory and everybody wore them. There were no riots, nobody called the police, nobody is refusing to go shopping as a protest.
Shops just put up signs at entrances to remind people.
I did see a person once who'd forgotten, he was reminded by another shopper by pointing at his own mask, and maskless shopper put his mask on.
What's the problem? What on earth do people imagine is going to happen?
German and British culture are not the same when it comes to things like this, whether we like it or not. Germans tend to trust government more.
Wouldn't encouraging masking in ALL enclosed situations AND outdoors when closer than six feet, actually help the economy?
Certainly would personally feels better about going out & about & popping into stores & shops IF masking compliance was higher. And it is going up here in Seattle, but still a ways to go.
Knowing the English mentality, no it wouldn't. A lot of people might stubbornly stay at home as a way of protesting against the facemask rule. It's probably different in other countries, and in Scotland and Wales. Also, "hell is other people" is a surprisingly popular maxim in England in my experience, unlike virtually everywhere else on the planet.
As far as I know no legal instrument has been passed to mandate masks in shops therefore the police can try and fine and we should all say charge me with an offence or go fornicate officer
Actually Regulations were passed by the government under the Regulations (Control of Diseases) Act 1984 this week giving the police full legal authority to impose a £100 fine for not wearing a mask in a shop
Then they will row back on it as there is too much resistance, shops wont enforce it either because those that do will lose custom. Another shit law from a shit government that will be largely ignored. Never pass a law you cant enforce
I don't understand all this stuff about how wearing a face covering when in a shop is going to be unenforceable. Here in Germany very few people were wearing them, then they were made compulsory and everybody wore them. There were no riots, nobody called the police, nobody is refusing to go shopping as a protest.
Shops just put up signs at entrances to remind people.
I did see a person once who'd forgotten, he was reminded by another shopper by pointing at his own mask, and maskless shopper put his mask on.
What's the problem? What on earth do people imagine is going to happen?
99.999 per cent of the time, nothing, notwithstanding the two recent mask-related homicides in France and America.
Wouldn't encouraging masking in ALL enclosed situations AND outdoors when closer than six feet, actually help the economy?
Certainly would personally feels better about going out & about & popping into stores & shops IF masking compliance was higher. And it is going up here in Seattle, but still a ways to go.
Knowing the English mentality, no it wouldn't. A lot of people might stubbornly stay at home as a way of protesting against the facemask rule. It's probably different in other countries, and in Scotland and Wales. Also, "hell is other people" is a surprisingly popular maxim in England in my experience, unlike virtually everywhere else on the planet.
As far as I know no legal instrument has been passed to mandate masks in shops therefore the police can try and fine and we should all say charge me with an offence or go fornicate officer
Actually Regulations were passed by the government under the Regulations (Control of Diseases) Act 1984 this week giving the police full legal authority to impose a £100 fine for not wearing a mask in a shop
Then they will row back on it as there is too much resistance, shops wont enforce it either because those that do will lose custom. Another shit law from a shit government that will be largely ignored. Never pass a law you cant enforce
I don't understand all this stuff about how wearing a face covering when in a shop is going to be unenforceable. Here in Germany very few people were wearing them, then they were made compulsory and everybody wore them. There were no riots, nobody called the police, nobody is refusing to go shopping as a protest.
Shops just put up signs at entrances to remind people.
I did see a person once who'd forgotten, he was reminded by another shopper by pointing at his own mask, and maskless shopper put his mask on.
What's the problem? What on earth do people imagine is going to happen?
German and British culture are not the same when it comes to things like this, whether we like it or not. Germans tend to trust government more.
And Italians trust government a lot less than British people, and yet everyone wears masks in Italy.
It's really not such a big inconvenience covering your nose and mouth when in a shop, especially when compared with real issues that people have already had to live with. Like children not being able to go to school, not being able to see elderly relatives, etc.
Wouldn't encouraging masking in ALL enclosed situations AND outdoors when closer than six feet, actually help the economy?
Certainly would personally feels better about going out & about & popping into stores & shops IF masking compliance was higher. And it is going up here in Seattle, but still a ways to go.
Knowing the English mentality, no it wouldn't. A lot of people might stubbornly stay at home as a way of protesting against the facemask rule. It's probably different in other countries, and in Scotland and Wales. Also, "hell is other people" is a surprisingly popular maxim in England in my experience, unlike virtually everywhere else on the planet.
As far as I know no legal instrument has been passed to mandate masks in shops therefore the police can try and fine and we should all say charge me with an offence or go fornicate officer
Actually Regulations were passed by the government under the Regulations (Control of Diseases) Act 1984 this week giving the police full legal authority to impose a £100 fine for not wearing a mask in a shop
Then they will row back on it as there is too much resistance, shops wont enforce it either because those that do will lose custom. Another shit law from a shit government that will be largely ignored. Never pass a law you cant enforce
I don't understand all this stuff about how wearing a face covering when in a shop is going to be unenforceable. Here in Germany very few people were wearing them, then they were made compulsory and everybody wore them. There were no riots, nobody called the police, nobody is refusing to go shopping as a protest.
Shops just put up signs at entrances to remind people.
I did see a person once who'd forgotten, he was reminded by another shopper by pointing at his own mask, and maskless shopper put his mask on.
What's the problem? What on earth do people imagine is going to happen?
German and British culture are not the same when it comes to things like this, whether we like it or not. Germans tend to trust government more.
And Italians trust government a lot less than British people, and yet everyone wears masks in Italy.
It's really not such a big inconvenience covering your nose and mouth when in a shop, especially when compared with real issues that people have already had to live with. Like children not being able to go to school, not being able to see elderly relatives, etc.
See the remark (“show previous quotes”) by Andy JS: “... "hell is other people" is a surprisingly popular maxim in England.”
I think Andy has hit the nail on the head. In Italy, Germany, Scotland, Wales, and most of the planet, people *like* other people. In England, misanthropy is pretty much raised to a national art-form.
Wouldn't encouraging masking in ALL enclosed situations AND outdoors when closer than six feet, actually help the economy?
Certainly would personally feels better about going out & about & popping into stores & shops IF masking compliance was higher. And it is going up here in Seattle, but still a ways to go.
Knowing the English mentality, no it wouldn't. A lot of people might stubbornly stay at home as a way of protesting against the facemask rule. It's probably different in other countries, and in Scotland and Wales. Also, "hell is other people" is a surprisingly popular maxim in England in my experience, unlike virtually everywhere else on the planet.
As far as I know no legal instrument has been passed to mandate masks in shops therefore the police can try and fine and we should all say charge me with an offence or go fornicate officer
Actually Regulations were passed by the government under the Regulations (Control of Diseases) Act 1984 this week giving the police full legal authority to impose a £100 fine for not wearing a mask in a shop
Then they will row back on it as there is too much resistance, shops wont enforce it either because those that do will lose custom. Another shit law from a shit government that will be largely ignored. Never pass a law you cant enforce
I don't understand all this stuff about how wearing a face covering when in a shop is going to be unenforceable. Here in Germany very few people were wearing them, then they were made compulsory and everybody wore them. There were no riots, nobody called the police, nobody is refusing to go shopping as a protest.
Shops just put up signs at entrances to remind people.
I did see a person once who'd forgotten, he was reminded by another shopper by pointing at his own mask, and maskless shopper put his mask on.
What's the problem? What on earth do people imagine is going to happen?
German and British culture are not the same when it comes to things like this, whether we like it or not. Germans tend to trust government more.
And Italians trust government a lot less than British people, and yet everyone wears masks in Italy.
It's really not such a big inconvenience covering your nose and mouth when in a shop, especially when compared with real issues that people have already had to live with. Like children not being able to go to school, not being able to see elderly relatives, etc.
See the remark (“show previous quotes”) by Andy JS: “... "hell is other people" is a surprisingly popular maxim in England.”
I think Andy has hit the nail on the head. In Italy, Germany, Scotland, Wales, and most of the planet, people *like* other people. In England, misanthropy is pretty much raised to a national art-form.
What an utterly nonsensical bit of prejudiced waffle. People are pretty much the same the world over. There is a reason it's called common sense.
Wouldn't encouraging masking in ALL enclosed situations AND outdoors when closer than six feet, actually help the economy?
Certainly would personally feels better about going out & about & popping into stores & shops IF masking compliance was higher. And it is going up here in Seattle, but still a ways to go.
Knowing the English mentality, no it wouldn't. A lot of people might stubbornly stay at home as a way of protesting against the facemask rule. It's probably different in other countries, and in Scotland and Wales. Also, "hell is other people" is a surprisingly popular maxim in England in my experience, unlike virtually everywhere else on the planet.
As far as I know no legal instrument has been passed to mandate masks in shops therefore the police can try and fine and we should all say charge me with an offence or go fornicate officer
Actually Regulations were passed by the government under the Regulations (Control of Diseases) Act 1984 this week giving the police full legal authority to impose a £100 fine for not wearing a mask in a shop
Then they will row back on it as there is too much resistance, shops wont enforce it either because those that do will lose custom. Another shit law from a shit government that will be largely ignored. Never pass a law you cant enforce
I don't understand all this stuff about how wearing a face covering when in a shop is going to be unenforceable. Here in Germany very few people were wearing them, then they were made compulsory and everybody wore them. There were no riots, nobody called the police, nobody is refusing to go shopping as a protest.
Shops just put up signs at entrances to remind people.
I did see a person once who'd forgotten, he was reminded by another shopper by pointing at his own mask, and maskless shopper put his mask on.
What's the problem? What on earth do people imagine is going to happen?
German and British culture are not the same when it comes to things like this, whether we like it or not. Germans tend to trust government more.
And Italians trust government a lot less than British people, and yet everyone wears masks in Italy.
It's really not such a big inconvenience covering your nose and mouth when in a shop, especially when compared with real issues that people have already had to live with. Like children not being able to go to school, not being able to see elderly relatives, etc.
See the remark (“show previous quotes”) by Andy JS: “... "hell is other people" is a surprisingly popular maxim in England.”
I think Andy has hit the nail on the head. In Italy, Germany, Scotland, Wales, and most of the planet, people *like* other people. In England, misanthropy is pretty much raised to a national art-form.
I’m fairly sure the original version of that was "L'enfer, c'est les autres".
Wouldn't encouraging masking in ALL enclosed situations AND outdoors when closer than six feet, actually help the economy?
Certainly would personally feels better about going out & about & popping into stores & shops IF masking compliance was higher. And it is going up here in Seattle, but still a ways to go.
Knowing the English mentality, no it wouldn't. A lot of people might stubbornly stay at home as a way of protesting against the facemask rule. It's probably different in other countries, and in Scotland and Wales. Also, "hell is other people" is a surprisingly popular maxim in England in my experience, unlike virtually everywhere else on the planet.
As far as I know no legal instrument has been passed to mandate masks in shops therefore the police can try and fine and we should all say charge me with an offence or go fornicate officer
Actually Regulations were passed by the government under the Regulations (Control of Diseases) Act 1984 this week giving the police full legal authority to impose a £100 fine for not wearing a mask in a shop
Then they will row back on it as there is too much resistance, shops wont enforce it either because those that do will lose custom. Another shit law from a shit government that will be largely ignored. Never pass a law you cant enforce
Wouldn't encouraging masking in ALL enclosed situations AND outdoors when closer than six feet, actually help the economy?
Certainly would personally feels better about going out & about & popping into stores & shops IF masking compliance was higher. And it is going up here in Seattle, but still a ways to go.
Knowing the English mentality, no it wouldn't. A lot of people might stubbornly stay at home as a way of protesting against the facemask rule. It's probably different in other countries, and in Scotland and Wales. Also, "hell is other people" is a surprisingly popular maxim in England in my experience, unlike virtually everywhere else on the planet.
As far as I know no legal instrument has been passed to mandate masks in shops therefore the police can try and fine and we should all say charge me with an offence or go fornicate officer
Actually Regulations were passed by the government under the Regulations (Control of Diseases) Act 1984 this week giving the police full legal authority to impose a £100 fine for not wearing a mask in a shop
Then they will row back on it as there is too much resistance, shops wont enforce it either because those that do will lose custom. Another shit law from a shit government that will be largely ignored. Never pass a law you cant enforce
I don't understand all this stuff about how wearing a face covering when in a shop is going to be unenforceable. Here in Germany very few people were wearing them, then they were made compulsory and everybody wore them. There were no riots, nobody called the police, nobody is refusing to go shopping as a protest.
Shops just put up signs at entrances to remind people.
I did see a person once who'd forgotten, he was reminded by another shopper by pointing at his own mask, and maskless shopper put his mask on.
What's the problem? What on earth do people imagine is going to happen?
German and British culture are not the same when it comes to things like this, whether we like it or not. Germans tend to trust government more.
And Italians trust government a lot less than British people, and yet everyone wears masks in Italy.
It's really not such a big inconvenience covering your nose and mouth when in a shop, especially when compared with real issues that people have already had to live with. Like children not being able to go to school, not being able to see elderly relatives, etc.
See the remark (“show previous quotes”) by Andy JS: “... "hell is other people" is a surprisingly popular maxim in England.”
I think Andy has hit the nail on the head. In Italy, Germany, Scotland, Wales, and most of the planet, people *like* other people. In England, misanthropy is pretty much raised to a national art-form.
I’m fairly sure the original version of that was "L'enfer, c'est les autres".
USA Dem Veep pick -- a big move on Betfair for Val Demings, in six points to 10 overnight. No new news to explain it, so far as I can see from Google. Others have moved out in response.
Karen Bass has been introduced (or I did not notice her before, and the books do not seem to be quoting her -- ETA 20/1 Ladbrokes) and is 16.5 fifth-best.
See The Atlantic: Now, much to Bass’s—and pretty much everyone else’s—surprise, Biden’s team is taking her seriously as a potential vice-presidential running mate. One theory is that she’s being vetted to help Biden win favor with the Congressional Black Caucus, which she chairs. Another is that Biden is trying to use the process to elevate as many black women as he can. Yet another is that he’s looking to distract people from speculating about some of the more likely choices. But inside the Biden campaign is another consideration: Over the next month, he’s effectively going to decide whether there will be a competitive Democratic primary in 2024 (or maybe 2028, if he wins and tries to serve until he’s 86 years old). He’s the leader of the party now. Will he decide its future by anointing a successor, or pick someone, like Bass, who’s less likely to run for president?
Wouldn't encouraging masking in ALL enclosed situations AND outdoors when closer than six feet, actually help the economy?
Certainly would personally feels better about going out & about & popping into stores & shops IF masking compliance was higher. And it is going up here in Seattle, but still a ways to go.
Knowing the English mentality, no it wouldn't. A lot of people might stubbornly stay at home as a way of protesting against the facemask rule. It's probably different in other countries, and in Scotland and Wales. Also, "hell is other people" is a surprisingly popular maxim in England in my experience, unlike virtually everywhere else on the planet.
As far as I know no legal instrument has been passed to mandate masks in shops therefore the police can try and fine and we should all say charge me with an offence or go fornicate officer
Actually Regulations were passed by the government under the Regulations (Control of Diseases) Act 1984 this week giving the police full legal authority to impose a £100 fine for not wearing a mask in a shop
Then they will row back on it as there is too much resistance, shops wont enforce it either because those that do will lose custom. Another shit law from a shit government that will be largely ignored. Never pass a law you cant enforce
I don't understand all this stuff about how wearing a face covering when in a shop is going to be unenforceable. Here in Germany very few people were wearing them, then they were made compulsory and everybody wore them. There were no riots, nobody called the police, nobody is refusing to go shopping as a protest.
Shops just put up signs at entrances to remind people.
I did see a person once who'd forgotten, he was reminded by another shopper by pointing at his own mask, and maskless shopper put his mask on.
What's the problem? What on earth do people imagine is going to happen?
German and British culture are not the same when it comes to things like this, whether we like it or not. Germans tend to trust government more.
And Italians trust government a lot less than British people, and yet everyone wears masks in Italy.
It's really not such a big inconvenience covering your nose and mouth when in a shop, especially when compared with real issues that people have already had to live with. Like children not being able to go to school, not being able to see elderly relatives, etc.
See the remark (“show previous quotes”) by Andy JS: “... "hell is other people" is a surprisingly popular maxim in England.”
I think Andy has hit the nail on the head. In Italy, Germany, Scotland, Wales, and most of the planet, people *like* other people. In England, misanthropy is pretty much raised to a national art-form.
What an utterly nonsensical bit of prejudiced waffle. People are pretty much the same the world over. There is a reason it's called common sense.
Common sense is a resource that has been in conspicuously short supply in England during the last five years. To all intents and purposes they have collectively embarked on a national self-flagellation project. Surveying the current mess, there is no end in sight. The only glimmer of light was that poll published yesterday showing that 49% of English voters now support independence for their country. So hope has not quite died yet.
Wouldn't encouraging masking in ALL enclosed situations AND outdoors when closer than six feet, actually help the economy?
Certainly would personally feels better about going out & about & popping into stores & shops IF masking compliance was higher. And it is going up here in Seattle, but still a ways to go.
Knowing the English mentality, no it wouldn't. A lot of people might stubbornly stay at home as a way of protesting against the facemask rule. It's probably different in other countries, and in Scotland and Wales. Also, "hell is other people" is a surprisingly popular maxim in England in my experience, unlike virtually everywhere else on the planet.
As far as I know no legal instrument has been passed to mandate masks in shops therefore the police can try and fine and we should all say charge me with an offence or go fornicate officer
Actually Regulations were passed by the government under the Regulations (Control of Diseases) Act 1984 this week giving the police full legal authority to impose a £100 fine for not wearing a mask in a shop
Then they will row back on it as there is too much resistance, shops wont enforce it either because those that do will lose custom. Another shit law from a shit government that will be largely ignored. Never pass a law you cant enforce
I don't understand all this stuff about how wearing a face covering when in a shop is going to be unenforceable. Here in Germany very few people were wearing them, then they were made compulsory and everybody wore them. There were no riots, nobody called the police, nobody is refusing to go shopping as a protest.
Shops just put up signs at entrances to remind people.
I did see a person once who'd forgotten, he was reminded by another shopper by pointing at his own mask, and maskless shopper put his mask on.
What's the problem? What on earth do people imagine is going to happen?
German and British culture are not the same when it comes to things like this, whether we like it or not. Germans tend to trust government more.
And Italians trust government a lot less than British people, and yet everyone wears masks in Italy.
It's really not such a big inconvenience covering your nose and mouth when in a shop, especially when compared with real issues that people have already had to live with. Like children not being able to go to school, not being able to see elderly relatives, etc.
See the remark (“show previous quotes”) by Andy JS: “... "hell is other people" is a surprisingly popular maxim in England.”
I think Andy has hit the nail on the head. In Italy, Germany, Scotland, Wales, and most of the planet, people *like* other people. In England, misanthropy is pretty much raised to a national art-form.
What an utterly nonsensical bit of prejudiced waffle. People are pretty much the same the world over. There is a reason it's called common sense.
Common sense is a resource that has been in conspicuously short supply in England during the last five years. To all intents and purposes they have collectively embarked on a national self-flagellation project. Surveying the current mess, there is no end of sight. The only glimmer of light was that poll published yesterday showing that 49% of English voters now support independence for their country. So hope has not quite died yet.
Just heard that the Tate is laying off up to 90% of its staff
London is burning down
Why? I was literally planning a trip to the Tate with a girl I’ve been dating yesterday.
No one is going out in central London. Foreign tourists have disappeared. City workers are gone.
People outside London don't grasp the scale of what is happening. A world city is cratering from the inside out. I presume the same is happening in NYC, Paris, and maybe elsewhere
Why is London like this? I drove through the centre of Bath at about 10pm last Saturday night, there were hordes of young people about, pubs looked to be doing a roaring trade. My northern hometown is pretty much back to normal everywhere, with mask wearing at less than 10% (quite possibly less than 1%). No queue for the supermarket either last half a dozen times I've been in. What makes London different (other than being an overpriced dump) that it's not bouncing back the same?
Is this largely just a City & Westminster phenomenon or London wide? What’s happening on Northcote Road, Upper Street, Electric Avenue, Richmond? Places where people actually live and foreign tourists are few and far between?
China's population is projected to fall by half between now and 2100. That has huge implications for China's economic and military heft.
The populations of the USA and UK will hardly change over that period. And, Nigeria could be the second most populous country on Earth, although it seems to me that population growth on that scale could provoke massive civil conflict.
USA Dem Veep pick -- a big move on Betfair for Val Demings, in six points to 10 overnight. No new news to explain it, so far as I can see from Google. Others have moved out in response.
Karen Bass has been introduced (or I did not notice her before, and the books do not seem to be quoting her -- ETA 20/1 Ladbrokes) and is 16.5 fifth-best.
See The Atlantic: Now, much to Bass’s—and pretty much everyone else’s—surprise, Biden’s team is taking her seriously as a potential vice-presidential running mate. One theory is that she’s being vetted to help Biden win favor with the Congressional Black Caucus, which she chairs. Another is that Biden is trying to use the process to elevate as many black women as he can. Yet another is that he’s looking to distract people from speculating about some of the more likely choices. But inside the Biden campaign is another consideration: Over the next month, he’s effectively going to decide whether there will be a competitive Democratic primary in 2024 (or maybe 2028, if he wins and tries to serve until he’s 86 years old). He’s the leader of the party now. Will he decide its future by anointing a successor, or pick someone, like Bass, who’s less likely to run for president?
On topic: this is exactly what I was afraid of, now that we've crossed the Rubicon with the shops. In a few weeks' time, the news will be that everyone will be breathing through rags, everywhere outside their own homes, for the rest of our lives. All bloody day, every day, forever.
I spend my day working in a well ventilated and really very large laboratory space with one other bloke. The way the work stations are arranged even keeps us two meters apart the entire time - and we'll still both end up with rags strapped to our faces all damned day. And make no mistake, this is it: it will NEVER end. Even in the unlikely event that a fully effective vaccine is ever developed, this misery will be enforced for all time *just in case* something like Covid ever happens again, or for some similar such spurious justification.
No shopping without rags, no travelling without rags, no sunbathing without rags, no walking alone through the middle of an empty field without rags. And when you finally kick the bucket they'll probably tell your family to bury your corpse wearing a fucking rag.
Wouldn't encouraging masking in ALL enclosed situations AND outdoors when closer than six feet, actually help the economy?
Certainly would personally feels better about going out & about & popping into stores & shops IF masking compliance was higher. And it is going up here in Seattle, but still a ways to go.
Knowing the English mentality, no it wouldn't. A lot of people might stubbornly stay at home as a way of protesting against the facemask rule. It's probably different in other countries, and in Scotland and Wales. Also, "hell is other people" is a surprisingly popular maxim in England in my experience, unlike virtually everywhere else on the planet.
As far as I know no legal instrument has been passed to mandate masks in shops therefore the police can try and fine and we should all say charge me with an offence or go fornicate officer
Actually Regulations were passed by the government under the Regulations (Control of Diseases) Act 1984 this week giving the police full legal authority to impose a £100 fine for not wearing a mask in a shop
Then they will row back on it as there is too much resistance, shops wont enforce it either because those that do will lose custom. Another shit law from a shit government that will be largely ignored. Never pass a law you cant enforce
I don't understand all this stuff about how wearing a face covering when in a shop is going to be unenforceable. Here in Germany very few people were wearing them, then they were made compulsory and everybody wore them. There were no riots, nobody called the police, nobody is refusing to go shopping as a protest.
Shops just put up signs at entrances to remind people.
I did see a person once who'd forgotten, he was reminded by another shopper by pointing at his own mask, and maskless shopper put his mask on.
What's the problem? What on earth do people imagine is going to happen?
German and British culture are not the same when it comes to things like this, whether we like it or not. Germans tend to trust government more.
And Italians trust government a lot less than British people, and yet everyone wears masks in Italy.
It's really not such a big inconvenience covering your nose and mouth when in a shop, especially when compared with real issues that people have already had to live with. Like children not being able to go to school, not being able to see elderly relatives, etc.
See the remark (“show previous quotes”) by Andy JS: “... "hell is other people" is a surprisingly popular maxim in England.”
I think Andy has hit the nail on the head. In Italy, Germany, Scotland, Wales, and most of the planet, people *like* other people. In England, misanthropy is pretty much raised to a national art-form.
What an utterly nonsensical bit of prejudiced waffle. People are pretty much the same the world over. There is a reason it's called common sense.
Common sense is a resource that has been in conspicuously short supply in England during the last five years. To all intents and purposes they have collectively embarked on a national self-flagellation project. Surveying the current mess, there is no end of sight. The only glimmer of light was that poll published yesterday showing that 49% of English voters now support independence for their country. So hope has not quite died yet.
China's population is projected to fall by half between now and 2100. That has huge implications for China's economic and military heft.
The populations of the USA and UK will hardly change over that period. And, Nigeria could be the second most populous country on Earth, although it seems to me that population growth on that scale could provoke massive civil conflict.
Fertility rates drop very sharply once you have basic education and people earning above subsistence wages. Sounds like the first half of the century will be about preventing immigration and the second half about attracting immigration!
China's population is projected to fall by half between now and 2100. That has huge implications for China's economic and military heft.
The populations of the USA and UK will hardly change over that period. And, Nigeria could be the second most populous country on Earth, although it seems to me that population growth on that scale could provoke massive civil conflict.
The socio/political changes in the next 80 years are quite difficult to predict, and will have a big influence on population numbers.
Just heard that the Tate is laying off up to 90% of its staff
London is burning down
Why? I was literally planning a trip to the Tate with a girl I’ve been dating yesterday.
No one is going out in central London. Foreign tourists have disappeared. City workers are gone.
People outside London don't grasp the scale of what is happening. A world city is cratering from the inside out. I presume the same is happening in NYC, Paris, and maybe elsewhere
Why is London like this? I drove through the centre of Bath at about 10pm last Saturday night, there were hordes of young people about, pubs looked to be doing a roaring trade. My northern hometown is pretty much back to normal everywhere, with mask wearing at less than 10% (quite possibly less than 1%). No queue for the supermarket either last half a dozen times I've been in. What makes London different (other than being an overpriced dump) that it's not bouncing back the same?
Is this largely just a City & Westminster phenomenon or London wide? What’s happening on Northcote Road, Upper Street, Electric Avenue, Richmond? Places where people actually live and foreign tourists are few and far between?
Yes its mostly central London that is empty-ish, but places like Northcote Rd or Upper St do rely on nights out from central London office working still despite being in residential areas. Not been to Richmond recently but imagine it would be closer to a typical commuter town in terms of volume.
On topic: this is exactly what I was afraid of, now that we've crossed the Rubicon with the shops. In a few weeks' time, the news will be that everyone will be breathing through rags, everywhere outside their own homes, for the rest of our lives. All bloody day, every day, forever.
I spend my day working in a well ventilated and really very large laboratory space with one other bloke. The way the work stations are arranged even keeps us two meters apart the entire time - and we'll still both end up with rags strapped to our faces all damned day. And make no mistake, this is it: it will NEVER end. Even in the unlikely event that a fully effective vaccine is ever developed, this misery will be enforced for all time *just in case* something like Covid ever happens again, or for some similar such spurious justification.
No shopping without rags, no travelling without rags, no sunbathing without rags, no walking alone through the middle of an empty field without rags. And when you finally kick the bucket they'll probably tell your family to bury your corpse wearing a fucking rag.
I hate this country.
Well that was an intelligent and balanced response.
On topic: this is exactly what I was afraid of, now that we've crossed the Rubicon with the shops. In a few weeks' time, the news will be that everyone will be breathing through rags, everywhere outside their own homes, for the rest of our lives. All bloody day, every day, forever.
I spend my day working in a well ventilated and really very large laboratory space with one other bloke. The way the work stations are arranged even keeps us two meters apart the entire time - and we'll still both end up with rags strapped to our faces all damned day. And make no mistake, this is it: it will NEVER end. Even in the unlikely event that a fully effective vaccine is ever developed, this misery will be enforced for all time *just in case* something like Covid ever happens again, or for some similar such spurious justification.
No shopping without rags, no travelling without rags, no sunbathing without rags, no walking alone through the middle of an empty field without rags. And when you finally kick the bucket they'll probably tell your family to bury your corpse wearing a fucking rag.
I hate this country.
I don't think it is the country that is at fault here.
China's population is projected to fall by half between now and 2100. That has huge implications for China's economic and military heft.
The populations of the USA and UK will hardly change over that period. And, Nigeria could be the second most populous country on Earth, although it seems to me that population growth on that scale could provoke massive civil conflict.
Projecting demographic trends over the rest of the century is pure guesswork.
China's population is projected to fall by half between now and 2100. That has huge implications for China's economic and military heft.
The populations of the USA and UK will hardly change over that period. And, Nigeria could be the second most populous country on Earth, although it seems to me that population growth on that scale could provoke massive civil conflict.
Nigeria to overtake China? Even if that is only remotely close to what we have ahead of us, I’m glad that I’m very heavy on Africa, and very, very light on China. (But still basically a Gold man.)
China's population is projected to fall by half between now and 2100. That has huge implications for China's economic and military heft.
The populations of the USA and UK will hardly change over that period. And, Nigeria could be the second most populous country on Earth, although it seems to me that population growth on that scale could provoke massive civil conflict.
Nigeria to overtake China? Even if that is only remotely close to what we have ahead of us, I’m glad that I’m very heavy on Africa, and very, very light on China. (But still basically a Gold man.)
On topic: this is exactly what I was afraid of, now that we've crossed the Rubicon with the shops. In a few weeks' time, the news will be that everyone will be breathing through rags, everywhere outside their own homes, for the rest of our lives. All bloody day, every day, forever.
I spend my day working in a well ventilated and really very large laboratory space with one other bloke. The way the work stations are arranged even keeps us two meters apart the entire time - and we'll still both end up with rags strapped to our faces all damned day. And make no mistake, this is it: it will NEVER end. Even in the unlikely event that a fully effective vaccine is ever developed, this misery will be enforced for all time *just in case* something like Covid ever happens again, or for some similar such spurious justification.
No shopping without rags, no travelling without rags, no sunbathing without rags, no walking alone through the middle of an empty field without rags. And when you finally kick the bucket they'll probably tell your family to bury your corpse wearing a fucking rag.
China's population is projected to fall by half between now and 2100. That has huge implications for China's economic and military heft.
The populations of the USA and UK will hardly change over that period. And, Nigeria could be the second most populous country on Earth, although it seems to me that population growth on that scale could provoke massive civil conflict.
Nigeria to overtake China? Even if that is only remotely close to what we have ahead of us, I’m glad that I’m very heavy on Africa, and very, very light on China. (But still basically a Gold man.)
Isn’t China rather heavy on Africa, too ?
True, true. The vast Norwegian state oil fund (the biggest on the planet) is also heavy on Africa.
Africa is the new China, India, Brazil, Turkey, Indonesia. I’m a huge fan of African equities. Ridiculously cheap at the moment.
Just heard that the Tate is laying off up to 90% of its staff
London is burning down
Why? I was literally planning a trip to the Tate with a girl I’ve been dating yesterday.
We have cancelled our exhibition for next year and closed down our commercial business. Going to be focusing on philanthropic events and performing arts for now.
China's population is projected to fall by half between now and 2100. That has huge implications for China's economic and military heft.
The populations of the USA and UK will hardly change over that period. And, Nigeria could be the second most populous country on Earth, although it seems to me that population growth on that scale could provoke massive civil conflict.
Projecting demographic trends over the rest of the century is pure guesswork.
On topic: this is exactly what I was afraid of, now that we've crossed the Rubicon with the shops. In a few weeks' time, the news will be that everyone will be breathing through rags, everywhere outside their own homes, for the rest of our lives. All bloody day, every day, forever.
I spend my day working in a well ventilated and really very large laboratory space with one other bloke. The way the work stations are arranged even keeps us two meters apart the entire time - and we'll still both end up with rags strapped to our faces all damned day. And make no mistake, this is it: it will NEVER end. Even in the unlikely event that a fully effective vaccine is ever developed, this misery will be enforced for all time *just in case* something like Covid ever happens again, or for some similar such spurious justification.
No shopping without rags, no travelling without rags, no sunbathing without rags, no walking alone through the middle of an empty field without rags. And when you finally kick the bucket they'll probably tell your family to bury your corpse wearing a fucking rag.
I hate this country.
Well that was an intelligent and balanced response.
Well if you enjoy the idea of being stuck wearing a mask everywhere for the rest of your natural life then bully for you. To me, it sounds little different to being in Afghanistan under the Taliban, where women were of course threatened with punishment by the state if they dared to go outside sans burqa. The only substantive difference with the masks everywhere policy that we have coming - because, be in no doubt, it will come - is that men are going to get whacked with it as well, so it's not sexist. Joy.
China's population is projected to fall by half between now and 2100. That has huge implications for China's economic and military heft.
The populations of the USA and UK will hardly change over that period. And, Nigeria could be the second most populous country on Earth, although it seems to me that population growth on that scale could provoke massive civil conflict.
The socio/political changes in the next 80 years are quite difficult to predict, and will have a big influence on population numbers.
That too. If these projections are at all correct, I'd expect warfare in Africa to be endemic, whereas most of the rest of the world would try to avoid warfare, given the shortage of young people.
Just heard that the Tate is laying off up to 90% of its staff
London is burning down
Why? I was literally planning a trip to the Tate with a girl I’ve been dating yesterday.
No one is going out in central London. Foreign tourists have disappeared. City workers are gone.
People outside London don't grasp the scale of what is happening. A world city is cratering from the inside out. I presume the same is happening in NYC, Paris, and maybe elsewhere
Why is London like this? I drove through the centre of Bath at about 10pm last Saturday night, there were hordes of young people about, pubs looked to be doing a roaring trade. My northern hometown is pretty much back to normal everywhere, with mask wearing at less than 10% (quite possibly less than 1%). No queue for the supermarket either last half a dozen times I've been in. What makes London different (other than being an overpriced dump) that it's not bouncing back the same?
Maybe it's because most of the people who usually populate central London don't live in the general vicinity, whereas in most other towns and cities they do.
Yes, we are now seeing who are the true central Londoners ie excluding commuters and the answer is not many and a substantial number of central London property owners absentee foreigners who spend only a few months in the capital at most
I live in the suburbs but have made only 1 trip into central London since March. And chose to that late at night to avoid crowds.
On topic: this is exactly what I was afraid of, now that we've crossed the Rubicon with the shops. In a few weeks' time, the news will be that everyone will be breathing through rags, everywhere outside their own homes, for the rest of our lives. All bloody day, every day, forever.
I spend my day working in a well ventilated and really very large laboratory space with one other bloke. The way the work stations are arranged even keeps us two meters apart the entire time - and we'll still both end up with rags strapped to our faces all damned day. And make no mistake, this is it: it will NEVER end. Even in the unlikely event that a fully effective vaccine is ever developed, this misery will be enforced for all time *just in case* something like Covid ever happens again, or for some similar such spurious justification.
No shopping without rags, no travelling without rags, no sunbathing without rags, no walking alone through the middle of an empty field without rags. And when you finally kick the bucket they'll probably tell your family to bury your corpse wearing a fucking rag.
I hate this country.
Who said misanthropy was dead?
And you're a right one to go off on one over "misanthropy." You hate everybody born south of the Tweed you scummy little Natbot.
I know Stockholm and Goteborg (#1 & #3 Swedish cities well). Density is far lower than London
Stockholm - 4 638/km2 London - 5 327/km2
Not vastly lower at all.
That's pretty misleading. Stockholm doesn't have large parks, instead it has lots of water that's not included in the size figures. And London is also a bit of a donut, with some outer London boroughs having very low population density that drags the number down.
I doubt there is any part of Stockholm that is as crowded - on a day to day basis - as Camden, Brent, or any of the other inner London Boroughs.
Absolutely - and to be fair I hang out in the triangle between Storeborg, Kungisgsten and the Grand which is very open and airy.
Wouldn't encouraging masking in ALL enclosed situations AND outdoors when closer than six feet, actually help the economy?
Certainly would personally feels better about going out & about & popping into stores & shops IF masking compliance was higher. And it is going up here in Seattle, but still a ways to go.
Knowing the English mentality, no it wouldn't. A lot of people might stubbornly stay at home as a way of protesting against the facemask rule. It's probably different in other countries, and in Scotland and Wales. Also, "hell is other people" is a surprisingly popular maxim in England in my experience, unlike virtually everywhere else on the planet.
As far as I know no legal instrument has been passed to mandate masks in shops therefore the police can try and fine and we should all say charge me with an offence or go fornicate officer
Actually Regulations were passed by the government under the Regulations (Control of Diseases) Act 1984 this week giving the police full legal authority to impose a £100 fine for not wearing a mask in a shop
Then they will row back on it as there is too much resistance, shops wont enforce it either because those that do will lose custom. Another shit law from a shit government that will be largely ignored. Never pass a law you cant enforce
I don't understand all this stuff about how wearing a face covering when in a shop is going to be unenforceable. Here in Germany very few people were wearing them, then they were made compulsory and everybody wore them. There were no riots, nobody called the police, nobody is refusing to go shopping as a protest.
Shops just put up signs at entrances to remind people.
I did see a person once who'd forgotten, he was reminded by another shopper by pointing at his own mask, and maskless shopper put his mask on.
What's the problem? What on earth do people imagine is going to happen?
German and British culture are not the same when it comes to things like this, whether we like it or not. Germans tend to trust government more.
In Los Angeles, they introduced a rule about mask wearing in shops and... guess what... people started wearing masks in shops.
Nobody seems unhappy. There are no mass demonstrations.
Just heard that the Tate is laying off up to 90% of its staff
London is burning down
Why? I was literally planning a trip to the Tate with a girl I’ve been dating yesterday.
No one is going out in central London. Foreign tourists have disappeared. City workers are gone.
People outside London don't grasp the scale of what is happening. A world city is cratering from the inside out. I presume the same is happening in NYC, Paris, and maybe elsewhere
Why is London like this? I drove through the centre of Bath at about 10pm last Saturday night, there were hordes of young people about, pubs looked to be doing a roaring trade. My northern hometown is pretty much back to normal everywhere, with mask wearing at less than 10% (quite possibly less than 1%). No queue for the supermarket either last half a dozen times I've been in. What makes London different (other than being an overpriced dump) that it's not bouncing back the same?
Maybe it's because most of the people who usually populate central London don't live in the general vicinity, whereas in most other towns and cities they do.
Yes, we are now seeing who are the true central Londoners ie excluding commuters and the answer is not many and a substantial number of central London property owners absentee foreigners who spend only a few months in the capital at most
New luxury block of flats near me has been open for a couple of years, claim to be fully sold. Terribly designed so you can easily see into the flats walking past and Ive only ever seen lights on in about 10% of them. If they are really fully sold, no way are they lived in at all.
I would suggest the report of a possible winter covid crisis has given Boris the cover he needs to come out strongly in favour of masks and by mandating their use they will become accepted by most people, giving him the option to open more of the economy as today's GDP figures show is very urgent
it will have the opposite effect though. Wouldn't mind so much if it was effective in getting rid of covid -19 but it isn't
They've looked at the predix of 100,000+ dead in the next wave and freaked out. Masks might stop that.
However, the price will be a tragically fucked economy
Was this 100K+ based on the "model" that was used in early spring to predict 250K dead by the summer?
Given nearly 50k died with a lockdown, 250k dying without it certainly seems plausible to me.
And yet Sweden hasn't had 40K deaths.
What's Sweden's population density?
Irrelevant. It's urbanisation level that counts.
I know Stockholm and Goteborg (#1 & #3 Swedish cities well). Density is far lower than London
You obviously don’t know them that well. Gothenburg is #2 Swedish city.
That doesn’t alter whether I know them or not. I just assumed Malmö (where I’ve never been as I turn left for Lund) was larger
Wouldn't encouraging masking in ALL enclosed situations AND outdoors when closer than six feet, actually help the economy?
Certainly would personally feels better about going out & about & popping into stores & shops IF masking compliance was higher. And it is going up here in Seattle, but still a ways to go.
Knowing the English mentality, no it wouldn't. A lot of people might stubbornly stay at home as a way of protesting against the facemask rule. It's probably different in other countries, and in Scotland and Wales. Also, "hell is other people" is a surprisingly popular maxim in England in my experience, unlike virtually everywhere else on the planet.
As far as I know no legal instrument has been passed to mandate masks in shops therefore the police can try and fine and we should all say charge me with an offence or go fornicate officer
Actually Regulations were passed by the government under the Regulations (Control of Diseases) Act 1984 this week giving the police full legal authority to impose a £100 fine for not wearing a mask in a shop
Then they will row back on it as there is too much resistance, shops wont enforce it either because those that do will lose custom. Another shit law from a shit government that will be largely ignored. Never pass a law you cant enforce
I don't understand all this stuff about how wearing a face covering when in a shop is going to be unenforceable. Here in Germany very few people were wearing them, then they were made compulsory and everybody wore them. There were no riots, nobody called the police, nobody is refusing to go shopping as a protest.
Shops just put up signs at entrances to remind people.
I did see a person once who'd forgotten, he was reminded by another shopper by pointing at his own mask, and maskless shopper put his mask on.
What's the problem? What on earth do people imagine is going to happen?
German and British culture are not the same when it comes to things like this, whether we like it or not. Germans tend to trust government more.
And Italians trust government a lot less than British people, and yet everyone wears masks in Italy.
It's really not such a big inconvenience covering your nose and mouth when in a shop, especially when compared with real issues that people have already had to live with. Like children not being able to go to school, not being able to see elderly relatives, etc.
See the remark (“show previous quotes”) by Andy JS: “... "hell is other people" is a surprisingly popular maxim in England.”
I think Andy has hit the nail on the head. In Italy, Germany, Scotland, Wales, and most of the planet, people *like* other people. In England, misanthropy is pretty much raised to a national art-form.
I’m fairly sure the original version of that was "L'enfer, c'est les autres".
Well of course the English are smart and malevolent enough to try and blame the French 😂
On topic: this is exactly what I was afraid of, now that we've crossed the Rubicon with the shops. In a few weeks' time, the news will be that everyone will be breathing through rags, everywhere outside their own homes, for the rest of our lives. All bloody day, every day, forever.
I spend my day working in a well ventilated and really very large laboratory space with one other bloke. The way the work stations are arranged even keeps us two meters apart the entire time - and we'll still both end up with rags strapped to our faces all damned day. And make no mistake, this is it: it will NEVER end. Even in the unlikely event that a fully effective vaccine is ever developed, this misery will be enforced for all time *just in case* something like Covid ever happens again, or for some similar such spurious justification.
No shopping without rags, no travelling without rags, no sunbathing without rags, no walking alone through the middle of an empty field without rags. And when you finally kick the bucket they'll probably tell your family to bury your corpse wearing a fucking rag.
The chancellor has ordered a review of capital gains tax that could result in the Treasury clawing back billions of pounds from homeowners and investors to help to pay for the coronavirus outbreak.
With regard to masks in offices, we are having to think about whether its worth maintaining our office or not. This could be a tipping point, personally I would lean to closing it down if masks were compulsory - wearing one for an hour on a commute or in shops is quite different to wearing one all day, five days a week.
If its needed, its needed, but it will change the economy even more rapidly.
On topic: this is exactly what I was afraid of, now that we've crossed the Rubicon with the shops. In a few weeks' time, the news will be that everyone will be breathing through rags, everywhere outside their own homes, for the rest of our lives. All bloody day, every day, forever.
I spend my day working in a well ventilated and really very large laboratory space with one other bloke. The way the work stations are arranged even keeps us two meters apart the entire time - and we'll still both end up with rags strapped to our faces all damned day. And make no mistake, this is it: it will NEVER end. Even in the unlikely event that a fully effective vaccine is ever developed, this misery will be enforced for all time *just in case* something like Covid ever happens again, or for some similar such spurious justification.
No shopping without rags, no travelling without rags, no sunbathing without rags, no walking alone through the middle of an empty field without rags. And when you finally kick the bucket they'll probably tell your family to bury your corpse wearing a fucking rag.
I hate this country.
Who said misanthropy was dead?
And you're a right one to go off on one over "misanthropy." You hate everybody born south of the Tweed you scummy little Natbot.
With regard to masks in offices, we are having to think about whether its worth maintaining our office or not. This could be a tipping point, personally I would lean to closing it down if masks were compulsory - wearing one for an hour on a commute or in shops is quite different to wearing one all day, five days a week.
If its needed, its needed, but it will change the economy even more rapidly.
Our colleagues who will be in the office are supposed to use Zoom to talk to each other rather than have internal meetings. Can’t think of anything more miserable
With regard to masks in offices, we are having to think about whether its worth maintaining our office or not. This could be a tipping point, personally I would lean to closing it down if masks were compulsory - wearing one for an hour on a commute or in shops is quite different to wearing one all day, five days a week.
If its needed, its needed, but it will change the economy even more rapidly.
Our colleagues who will be in the office are supposed to use Zoom to talk to each other rather than have internal meetings. Can’t think of anything more miserable
Its the summer, for meetings step outside if nowhere is considered safe inside, much better than zoom.
I know Stockholm and Goteborg (#1 & #3 Swedish cities well). Density is far lower than London
Stockholm - 4 638/km2 London - 5 327/km2
Not vastly lower at all.
That's pretty misleading. Stockholm doesn't have large parks, instead it has lots of water that's not included in the size figures. And London is also a bit of a donut, with some outer London boroughs having very low population density that drags the number down.
I doubt there is any part of Stockholm that is as crowded - on a day to day basis - as Camden, Brent, or any of the other inner London Boroughs.
Absolutely - and to be fair I hang out in the triangle between Storeborg, Kungisgsten and the Grand which is very open and airy.
And as for knowing Gothenburg ”well” Charles, how often do you hang out in Angered, Biskopsgården or Bergsjön?
Wouldn't encouraging masking in ALL enclosed situations AND outdoors when closer than six feet, actually help the economy?
Certainly would personally feels better about going out & about & popping into stores & shops IF masking compliance was higher. And it is going up here in Seattle, but still a ways to go.
Knowing the English mentality, no it wouldn't. A lot of people might stubbornly stay at home as a way of protesting against the facemask rule. It's probably different in other countries, and in Scotland and Wales. Also, "hell is other people" is a surprisingly popular maxim in England in my experience, unlike virtually everywhere else on the planet.
As far as I know no legal instrument has been passed to mandate masks in shops therefore the police can try and fine and we should all say charge me with an offence or go fornicate officer
Actually Regulations were passed by the government under the Regulations (Control of Diseases) Act 1984 this week giving the police full legal authority to impose a £100 fine for not wearing a mask in a shop
Then they will row back on it as there is too much resistance, shops wont enforce it either because those that do will lose custom. Another shit law from a shit government that will be largely ignored. Never pass a law you cant enforce
I don't understand all this stuff about how wearing a face covering when in a shop is going to be unenforceable. Here in Germany very few people were wearing them, then they were made compulsory and everybody wore them. There were no riots, nobody called the police, nobody is refusing to go shopping as a protest.
Shops just put up signs at entrances to remind people.
I did see a person once who'd forgotten, he was reminded by another shopper by pointing at his own mask, and maskless shopper put his mask on.
What's the problem? What on earth do people imagine is going to happen?
German and British culture are not the same when it comes to things like this, whether we like it or not. Germans tend to trust government more.
In Los Angeles, they introduced a rule about mask wearing in shops and... guess what... people started wearing masks in shops.
Nobody seems unhappy. There are no mass demonstrations.
Most people just want to avoid getting ill or making others ill.
China's population is projected to fall by half between now and 2100. That has huge implications for China's economic and military heft.
The populations of the USA and UK will hardly change over that period. And, Nigeria could be the second most populous country on Earth, although it seems to me that population growth on that scale could provoke massive civil conflict.
Projecting demographic trends over the rest of the century is pure guesswork.
On topic: this is exactly what I was afraid of, now that we've crossed the Rubicon with the shops. In a few weeks' time, the news will be that everyone will be breathing through rags, everywhere outside their own homes, for the rest of our lives. All bloody day, every day, forever.
I spend my day working in a well ventilated and really very large laboratory space with one other bloke. The way the work stations are arranged even keeps us two meters apart the entire time - and we'll still both end up with rags strapped to our faces all damned day. And make no mistake, this is it: it will NEVER end. Even in the unlikely event that a fully effective vaccine is ever developed, this misery will be enforced for all time *just in case* something like Covid ever happens again, or for some similar such spurious justification.
No shopping without rags, no travelling without rags, no sunbathing without rags, no walking alone through the middle of an empty field without rags. And when you finally kick the bucket they'll probably tell your family to bury your corpse wearing a fucking rag.
Well if you enjoy the idea of being stuck wearing a mask everywhere for the rest of your natural life then bully for you. To me, it sounds little different to being in Afghanistan under the Taliban, where women were of course threatened with punishment by the state if they dared to go outside sans burqa. The only substantive difference with the masks everywhere policy that we have coming - because, be in no doubt, it will come - is that men are going to get whacked with it as well, so it's not sexist. Joy.
I'd be up for wearing a burqa out for a while if it helped stop older people from dying of the rona, especially if it allowed us to resume things like eating out and events that we'd otherwise avoid so we didn't spread the virus.
I wonder if they could design them with little fans and chimneys on the top to vent any contagious droplets safely upwards.
Wouldn't encouraging masking in ALL enclosed situations AND outdoors when closer than six feet, actually help the economy?
Certainly would personally feels better about going out & about & popping into stores & shops IF masking compliance was higher. And it is going up here in Seattle, but still a ways to go.
Knowing the English mentality, no it wouldn't. A lot of people might stubbornly stay at home as a way of protesting against the facemask rule. It's probably different in other countries, and in Scotland and Wales. Also, "hell is other people" is a surprisingly popular maxim in England in my experience, unlike virtually everywhere else on the planet.
As far as I know no legal instrument has been passed to mandate masks in shops therefore the police can try and fine and we should all say charge me with an offence or go fornicate officer
Actually Regulations were passed by the government under the Regulations (Control of Diseases) Act 1984 this week giving the police full legal authority to impose a £100 fine for not wearing a mask in a shop
Then they will row back on it as there is too much resistance, shops wont enforce it either because those that do will lose custom. Another shit law from a shit government that will be largely ignored. Never pass a law you cant enforce
I don't understand all this stuff about how wearing a face covering when in a shop is going to be unenforceable. Here in Germany very few people were wearing them, then they were made compulsory and everybody wore them. There were no riots, nobody called the police, nobody is refusing to go shopping as a protest.
Shops just put up signs at entrances to remind people.
I did see a person once who'd forgotten, he was reminded by another shopper by pointing at his own mask, and maskless shopper put his mask on.
What's the problem? What on earth do people imagine is going to happen?
German and British culture are not the same when it comes to things like this, whether we like it or not. Germans tend to trust government more.
Germany,(heck probably even Bulgaria) has a Government who hasn't been caught lying to their people. Thanks to Cummings and Co few people trust this Government as what they say rarely lasts more than a few days and often just a few hours,
China's population is projected to fall by half between now and 2100. That has huge implications for China's economic and military heft.
The populations of the USA and UK will hardly change over that period. And, Nigeria could be the second most populous country on Earth, although it seems to me that population growth on that scale could provoke massive civil conflict.
The socio/political changes in the next 80 years are quite difficult to predict, and will have a big influence on population numbers.
Well if you enjoy the idea of being stuck wearing a mask everywhere for the rest of your natural life then bully for you. To me, it sounds little different to being in Afghanistan under the Taliban, where women were of course threatened with punishment by the state if they dared to go outside sans burqa. The only substantive difference with the masks everywhere policy that we have coming - because, be in no doubt, it will come - is that men are going to get whacked with it as well, so it's not sexist. Joy.
I'd be up for wearing a burqa out for a while if it helped stop older people from dying of the rona, especially if it allowed us to resume things like eating out and events that we'd otherwise avoid so we didn't spread the virus.
I wonder if they could design them with little fans and chimneys on the top to vent any contagious droplets safely upwards.
I fail to understand why people will not do a simple thing like wear a mask in order to help reduce the risk of spreading the virus, do they want to go back into lockdown? What is the objection it’s not exactly the biggest infringement of human rights to get wound up about?
On topic: this is exactly what I was afraid of, now that we've crossed the Rubicon with the shops. In a few weeks' time, the news will be that everyone will be breathing through rags, everywhere outside their own homes, for the rest of our lives. All bloody day, every day, forever.
I spend my day working in a well ventilated and really very large laboratory space with one other bloke. The way the work stations are arranged even keeps us two meters apart the entire time - and we'll still both end up with rags strapped to our faces all damned day. And make no mistake, this is it: it will NEVER end. Even in the unlikely event that a fully effective vaccine is ever developed, this misery will be enforced for all time *just in case* something like Covid ever happens again, or for some similar such spurious justification.
No shopping without rags, no travelling without rags, no sunbathing without rags, no walking alone through the middle of an empty field without rags. And when you finally kick the bucket they'll probably tell your family to bury your corpse wearing a fucking rag.
I hate this country.
Well that was an intelligent and balanced response.
Well if you enjoy the idea of being stuck wearing a mask everywhere for the rest of your natural life then bully for you. To me, it sounds little different to being in Afghanistan under the Taliban, where women were of course threatened with punishment by the state if they dared to go outside sans burqa. The only substantive difference with the masks everywhere policy that we have coming - because, be in no doubt, it will come - is that men are going to get whacked with it as well, so it's not sexist. Joy.
Well if you enjoy the idea of being stuck wearing a mask everywhere for the rest of your natural life then bully for you. To me, it sounds little different to being in Afghanistan under the Taliban, where women were of course threatened with punishment by the state if they dared to go outside sans burqa. The only substantive difference with the masks everywhere policy that we have coming - because, be in no doubt, it will come - is that men are going to get whacked with it as well, so it's not sexist. Joy.
I'd be up for wearing a burqa out for a while if it helped stop older people from dying of the rona, especially if it allowed us to resume things like eating out and events that we'd otherwise avoid so we didn't spread the virus.
I wonder if they could design them with little fans and chimneys on the top to vent any contagious droplets safely upwards.
I fail to understand why people will not do a simple thing like wear a mask in order to help reduce the risk of spreading the virus, do they want to go back into lockdown? What is the objection it’s not exactly the biggest infringement of human rights to get wound up about?
The chancellor has ordered a review of capital gains tax that could result in the Treasury clawing back billions of pounds from homeowners and investors to help to pay for the coronavirus outbreak.
On topic: this is exactly what I was afraid of, now that we've crossed the Rubicon with the shops. In a few weeks' time, the news will be that everyone will be breathing through rags, everywhere outside their own homes, for the rest of our lives. All bloody day, every day, forever.
I spend my day working in a well ventilated and really very large laboratory space with one other bloke. The way the work stations are arranged even keeps us two meters apart the entire time - and we'll still both end up with rags strapped to our faces all damned day. And make no mistake, this is it: it will NEVER end. Even in the unlikely event that a fully effective vaccine is ever developed, this misery will be enforced for all time *just in case* something like Covid ever happens again, or for some similar such spurious justification.
No shopping without rags, no travelling without rags, no sunbathing without rags, no walking alone through the middle of an empty field without rags. And when you finally kick the bucket they'll probably tell your family to bury your corpse wearing a fucking rag.
I hate this country.
Since masks became compulsory in Scotland I estimate that I've worn a mask for around an hour in total. Perspective...
I fail to understand why people will not do a simple thing like wear a mask in order to help reduce the risk of spreading the virus, do they want to go back into lockdown? What is the objection it’s not exactly the biggest infringement of human rights to get wound up about?
Wouldn't encouraging masking in ALL enclosed situations AND outdoors when closer than six feet, actually help the economy?
Certainly would personally feels better about going out & about & popping into stores & shops IF masking compliance was higher. And it is going up here in Seattle, but still a ways to go.
Knowing the English mentality, no it wouldn't. A lot of people might stubbornly stay at home as a way of protesting against the facemask rule. It's probably different in other countries, and in Scotland and Wales. Also, "hell is other people" is a surprisingly popular maxim in England in my experience, unlike virtually everywhere else on the planet.
As far as I know no legal instrument has been passed to mandate masks in shops therefore the police can try and fine and we should all say charge me with an offence or go fornicate officer
Actually Regulations were passed by the government under the Regulations (Control of Diseases) Act 1984 this week giving the police full legal authority to impose a £100 fine for not wearing a mask in a shop
Then they will row back on it as there is too much resistance, shops wont enforce it either because those that do will lose custom. Another shit law from a shit government that will be largely ignored. Never pass a law you cant enforce
I don't understand all this stuff about how wearing a face covering when in a shop is going to be unenforceable. Here in Germany very few people were wearing them, then they were made compulsory and everybody wore them. There were no riots, nobody called the police, nobody is refusing to go shopping as a protest.
Shops just put up signs at entrances to remind people.
I did see a person once who'd forgotten, he was reminded by another shopper by pointing at his own mask, and maskless shopper put his mask on.
What's the problem? What on earth do people imagine is going to happen?
German and British culture are not the same when it comes to things like this, whether we like it or not. Germans tend to trust government more.
Germany,(heck probably even Bulgaria) has a Government who hasn't been caught lying to their people. Thanks to Cummings and Co few people trust this Government as what they say rarely lasts more than a few days and often just a few hours,
I would like to think that to be true, sadly I believe you are mistaken. One can detect it on here.
If one's sources of information are mainstream media outlets, particularly the red tops and the BBC, or popular blogs, the Government is doing just fine.
Well if you enjoy the idea of being stuck wearing a mask everywhere for the rest of your natural life then bully for you. To me, it sounds little different to being in Afghanistan under the Taliban, where women were of course threatened with punishment by the state if they dared to go outside sans burqa. The only substantive difference with the masks everywhere policy that we have coming - because, be in no doubt, it will come - is that men are going to get whacked with it as well, so it's not sexist. Joy.
I'd be up for wearing a burqa out for a while if it helped stop older people from dying of the rona, especially if it allowed us to resume things like eating out and events that we'd otherwise avoid so we didn't spread the virus.
I wonder if they could design them with little fans and chimneys on the top to vent any contagious droplets safely upwards.
I fail to understand why people will not do a simple thing like wear a mask in order to help reduce the risk of spreading the virus, do they want to go back into lockdown? What is the objection it’s not exactly the biggest infringement of human rights to get wound up about?
99.9% of people will
I hope they do, as I posted last night out in our Spanish seaside town last night people were already wearing masks outdoors without it, as yet, not being mandated. The price of the pandemic has taken too big a toll already without risking a second lockdown so it seems reasonable to take basic precautions whilst still enjoying some degree of normality.
I fail to understand why people will not do a simple thing like wear a mask in order to help reduce the risk of spreading the virus, do they want to go back into lockdown? What is the objection it’s not exactly the biggest infringement of human rights to get wound up about?
Wouldn't encouraging masking in ALL enclosed situations AND outdoors when closer than six feet, actually help the economy?
Certainly would personally feels better about going out & about & popping into stores & shops IF masking compliance was higher. And it is going up here in Seattle, but still a ways to go.
Knowing the English mentality, no it wouldn't. A lot of people might stubbornly stay at home as a way of protesting against the facemask rule. It's probably different in other countries, and in Scotland and Wales. Also, "hell is other people" is a surprisingly popular maxim in England in my experience, unlike virtually everywhere else on the planet.
As far as I know no legal instrument has been passed to mandate masks in shops therefore the police can try and fine and we should all say charge me with an offence or go fornicate officer
Actually Regulations were passed by the government under the Regulations (Control of Diseases) Act 1984 this week giving the police full legal authority to impose a £100 fine for not wearing a mask in a shop
Then they will row back on it as there is too much resistance, shops wont enforce it either because those that do will lose custom. Another shit law from a shit government that will be largely ignored. Never pass a law you cant enforce
I don't understand all this stuff about how wearing a face covering when in a shop is going to be unenforceable. Here in Germany very few people were wearing them, then they were made compulsory and everybody wore them. There were no riots, nobody called the police, nobody is refusing to go shopping as a protest.
Shops just put up signs at entrances to remind people.
I did see a person once who'd forgotten, he was reminded by another shopper by pointing at his own mask, and maskless shopper put his mask on.
What's the problem? What on earth do people imagine is going to happen?
German and British culture are not the same when it comes to things like this, whether we like it or not. Germans tend to trust government more.
Germany,(heck probably even Bulgaria) has a Government who hasn't been caught lying to their people. Thanks to Cummings and Co few people trust this Government as what they say rarely lasts more than a few days and often just a few hours,
I would like to think that to be true, sadly I believe you are mistaken. One can detect it on here.
If one's sources of information are mainstream media outlets, particularly the red tops and the BBC, or popular blogs, the Government is doing just fine.
There is a great difference between what the papers say and how the general public respond in their comments.
I fail to understand why people will not do a simple thing like wear a mask in order to help reduce the risk of spreading the virus, do they want to go back into lockdown? What is the objection it’s not exactly the biggest infringement of human rights to get wound up about?
I fail to understand why people will not do a simple thing like wear a mask in order to help reduce the risk of spreading the virus, do they want to go back into lockdown? What is the objection it’s not exactly the biggest infringement of human rights to get wound up about?
Desmond stated his personal perspective (it would reduce the amount he shops) and asked about enforcement. He didn’t say he wasn’t going to wear one, but pointed out some downsides
That’s just a different view not acting “like an over privileged man child” or a “fool”.
Wouldn't encouraging masking in ALL enclosed situations AND outdoors when closer than six feet, actually help the economy?
Certainly would personally feels better about going out & about & popping into stores & shops IF masking compliance was higher. And it is going up here in Seattle, but still a ways to go.
Knowing the English mentality, no it wouldn't. A lot of people might stubbornly stay at home as a way of protesting against the facemask rule. It's probably different in other countries, and in Scotland and Wales. Also, "hell is other people" is a surprisingly popular maxim in England in my experience, unlike virtually everywhere else on the planet.
As far as I know no legal instrument has been passed to mandate masks in shops therefore the police can try and fine and we should all say charge me with an offence or go fornicate officer
Actually Regulations were passed by the government under the Regulations (Control of Diseases) Act 1984 this week giving the police full legal authority to impose a £100 fine for not wearing a mask in a shop
Then they will row back on it as there is too much resistance, shops wont enforce it either because those that do will lose custom. Another shit law from a shit government that will be largely ignored. Never pass a law you cant enforce
I don't understand all this stuff about how wearing a face covering when in a shop is going to be unenforceable. Here in Germany very few people were wearing them, then they were made compulsory and everybody wore them. There were no riots, nobody called the police, nobody is refusing to go shopping as a protest.
Shops just put up signs at entrances to remind people.
I did see a person once who'd forgotten, he was reminded by another shopper by pointing at his own mask, and maskless shopper put his mask on.
What's the problem? What on earth do people imagine is going to happen?
German and British culture are not the same when it comes to things like this, whether we like it or not. Germans tend to trust government more.
In Los Angeles, they introduced a rule about mask wearing in shops and... guess what... people started wearing masks in shops.
Nobody seems unhappy. There are no mass demonstrations.
Most people just want to avoid getting ill or making others ill.
So how is Coronavirus going in California now mask wearing is compulsory?
Wouldn't encouraging masking in ALL enclosed situations AND outdoors when closer than six feet, actually help the economy?
Certainly would personally feels better about going out & about & popping into stores & shops IF masking compliance was higher. And it is going up here in Seattle, but still a ways to go.
Knowing the English mentality, no it wouldn't. A lot of people might stubbornly stay at home as a way of protesting against the facemask rule. It's probably different in other countries, and in Scotland and Wales. Also, "hell is other people" is a surprisingly popular maxim in England in my experience, unlike virtually everywhere else on the planet.
As far as I know no legal instrument has been passed to mandate masks in shops therefore the police can try and fine and we should all say charge me with an offence or go fornicate officer
Actually Regulations were passed by the government under the Regulations (Control of Diseases) Act 1984 this week giving the police full legal authority to impose a £100 fine for not wearing a mask in a shop
Then they will row back on it as there is too much resistance, shops wont enforce it either because those that do will lose custom. Another shit law from a shit government that will be largely ignored. Never pass a law you cant enforce
I don't understand all this stuff about how wearing a face covering when in a shop is going to be unenforceable. Here in Germany very few people were wearing them, then they were made compulsory and everybody wore them. There were no riots, nobody called the police, nobody is refusing to go shopping as a protest.
Shops just put up signs at entrances to remind people.
I did see a person once who'd forgotten, he was reminded by another shopper by pointing at his own mask, and maskless shopper put his mask on.
What's the problem? What on earth do people imagine is going to happen?
German and British culture are not the same when it comes to things like this, whether we like it or not. Germans tend to trust government more.
Germany,(heck probably even Bulgaria) has a Government who hasn't been caught lying to their people. Thanks to Cummings and Co few people trust this Government as what they say rarely lasts more than a few days and often just a few hours,
I would like to think that to be true, sadly I believe you are mistaken. One can detect it on here.
If one's sources of information are mainstream media outlets, particularly the red tops and the BBC, or popular blogs, the Government is doing just fine.
There is a great difference between what the papers say and how the general public respond in their comments.
Isn't that always the way?
The silent majority are quite content with their lot, some peel off in a huff however when Government has the affrontary to make them wear a mask for their own and other people's safety. I am not detecting any dissatisfaction from my blue-collar.Boris-loving contacts.
Just heard that the Tate is laying off up to 90% of its staff
London is burning down
Why? I was literally planning a trip to the Tate with a girl I’ve been dating yesterday.
No one is going out in central London. Foreign tourists have disappeared. City workers are gone.
People outside London don't grasp the scale of what is happening. A world city is cratering from the inside out. I presume the same is happening in NYC, Paris, and maybe elsewhere
Why is London like this? I drove through the centre of Bath at about 10pm last Saturday night, there were hordes of young people about, pubs looked to be doing a roaring trade. My northern hometown is pretty much back to normal everywhere, with mask wearing at less than 10% (quite possibly less than 1%). No queue for the supermarket either last half a dozen times I've been in. What makes London different (other than being an overpriced dump) that it's not bouncing back the same?
Is this largely just a City & Westminster phenomenon or London wide? What’s happening on Northcote Road, Upper Street, Electric Avenue, Richmond? Places where people actually live and foreign tourists are few and far between?
I imagine that most nightlife in central London is tourists and after work. Both sources have dried up. Most Londoners go out locally and I think it's been pretty busy around here (SE London) - although I have not been out since a karaoke night in the local boozer in early March. A local park with beautiful views over London has been heaving every night, basically a free festival with food, drinks and music (and prompting much gnashing of teeth among local residents owing to associated nuisance).
On topic: this is exactly what I was afraid of, now that we've crossed the Rubicon with the shops. In a few weeks' time, the news will be that everyone will be breathing through rags, everywhere outside their own homes, for the rest of our lives. All bloody day, every day, forever.
I spend my day working in a well ventilated and really very large laboratory space with one other bloke. The way the work stations are arranged even keeps us two meters apart the entire time - and we'll still both end up with rags strapped to our faces all damned day. And make no mistake, this is it: it will NEVER end. Even in the unlikely event that a fully effective vaccine is ever developed, this misery will be enforced for all time *just in case* something like Covid ever happens again, or for some similar such spurious justification.
No shopping without rags, no travelling without rags, no sunbathing without rags, no walking alone through the middle of an empty field without rags. And when you finally kick the bucket they'll probably tell your family to bury your corpse wearing a fucking rag.
I hate this country.
No. It’s not. I get you’re down and lashing out rhetorically. This isn’t being done for a love of masks. No matter whether or not some people decide that “No, there’s no other logic, it’s the State deciding for some bizarre reason that they want everyone masked because they’re baddies, don’t you know.
Masks will be compulsory in a handful of enclosed spaces for as long as needed against covid. When a vaccine is here, they’ll be gone like last year’s snow.
Wouldn't encouraging masking in ALL enclosed situations AND outdoors when closer than six feet, actually help the economy?
Certainly would personally feels better about going out & about & popping into stores & shops IF masking compliance was higher. And it is going up here in Seattle, but still a ways to go.
Knowing the English mentality, no it wouldn't. A lot of people might stubbornly stay at home as a way of protesting against the facemask rule. It's probably different in other countries, and in Scotland and Wales. Also, "hell is other people" is a surprisingly popular maxim in England in my experience, unlike virtually everywhere else on the planet.
As far as I know no legal instrument has been passed to mandate masks in shops therefore the police can try and fine and we should all say charge me with an offence or go fornicate officer
Actually Regulations were passed by the government under the Regulations (Control of Diseases) Act 1984 this week giving the police full legal authority to impose a £100 fine for not wearing a mask in a shop
Then they will row back on it as there is too much resistance, shops wont enforce it either because those that do will lose custom. Another shit law from a shit government that will be largely ignored. Never pass a law you cant enforce
I don't understand all this stuff about how wearing a face covering when in a shop is going to be unenforceable. Here in Germany very few people were wearing them, then they were made compulsory and everybody wore them. There were no riots, nobody called the police, nobody is refusing to go shopping as a protest.
Shops just put up signs at entrances to remind people.
I did see a person once who'd forgotten, he was reminded by another shopper by pointing at his own mask, and maskless shopper put his mask on.
What's the problem? What on earth do people imagine is going to happen?
German and British culture are not the same when it comes to things like this, whether we like it or not. Germans tend to trust government more.
In Los Angeles, they introduced a rule about mask wearing in shops and... guess what... people started wearing masks in shops.
Nobody seems unhappy. There are no mass demonstrations.
Most people just want to avoid getting ill or making others ill.
So how is Coronavirus going in California now mask wearing is compulsory?
Maybe they should have tried getting in front of the problem rather than chasing it. Clearly waiting till you see a problem with this virus means you’ve left it too late.
The chancellor has ordered a review of capital gains tax that could result in the Treasury clawing back billions of pounds from homeowners and investors to help to pay for the coronavirus outbreak.
It's actually more like £370bn on the OBR's central scenario including an additional £50bn from last week's announcement which came too late to be properly incorporated into the projections. Why are British hacks so bloody innumerate?
And make no mistake, this is it: it will NEVER end. Even in the unlikely event that a fully effective vaccine is ever developed, this misery will be enforced for all time *just in case* something like Covid ever happens again, or for some similar such spurious justification.
I thought Mr Gove thought it was only polite to wear masks in shops and takeaways? Yet here he is, strolling out of Pret sans mask. What a fucking hypocrite.
Wouldn't encouraging masking in ALL enclosed situations AND outdoors when closer than six feet, actually help the economy?
Certainly would personally feels better about going out & about & popping into stores & shops IF masking compliance was higher. And it is going up here in Seattle, but still a ways to go.
Knowing the English mentality, no it wouldn't. A lot of people might stubbornly stay at home as a way of protesting against the facemask rule. It's probably different in other countries, and in Scotland and Wales. Also, "hell is other people" is a surprisingly popular maxim in England in my experience, unlike virtually everywhere else on the planet.
As far as I know no legal instrument has been passed to mandate masks in shops therefore the police can try and fine and we should all say charge me with an offence or go fornicate officer
Actually Regulations were passed by the government under the Regulations (Control of Diseases) Act 1984 this week giving the police full legal authority to impose a £100 fine for not wearing a mask in a shop
Then they will row back on it as there is too much resistance, shops wont enforce it either because those that do will lose custom. Another shit law from a shit government that will be largely ignored. Never pass a law you cant enforce
I don't understand all this stuff about how wearing a face covering when in a shop is going to be unenforceable. Here in Germany very few people were wearing them, then they were made compulsory and everybody wore them. There were no riots, nobody called the police, nobody is refusing to go shopping as a protest.
Shops just put up signs at entrances to remind people.
I did see a person once who'd forgotten, he was reminded by another shopper by pointing at his own mask, and maskless shopper put his mask on.
What's the problem? What on earth do people imagine is going to happen?
German and British culture are not the same when it comes to things like this, whether we like it or not. Germans tend to trust government more.
In Los Angeles, they introduced a rule about mask wearing in shops and... guess what... people started wearing masks in shops.
Nobody seems unhappy. There are no mass demonstrations.
Most people just want to avoid getting ill or making others ill.
So how is Coronavirus going in California now mask wearing is compulsory?
Maybe they should have tried getting in front of the problem rather than chasing it. Clearly waiting till you see a problem with this virus means you’ve left it too late.
How about hand washing, social distancing etc? Those things seem to work.
Forget the debate about whether masking in principle is a very important public health measure. Has any one got a clue about what the aims of Government policies are? Yesterday lots of people were arguing that masks in shops was “win-win” - good for Public health, but perhaps as importantly good for public confidence to get back into the shops and get the economy going.
But masks in offices. All offices? Even when employers are happy to stick to social distancing measures as an alternative? And when the Government a few days ago were actively saying people SHOULD “get back to the office to help the economy”. I was seriously thinking about exploring whether I had the option yesterday of doing so - just for a bit of a change. It’s pretty much out now.
I feel like the world is going insane. Face masks compulsory pretty much everywhere? For a disease which has allegedly killed about 50,000 people? Out of a population of 68 million? This is deranged. Next it will be kids in classrooms forced to wear masks. You won't be able to go outside your house without one. It's fucking creepy, who wants to live like this? (actually plenty of authoritarian personality types who love being told what to do by a government that they profess to hate and distrust).
And it is not going to be temporary.
I'd recommend Christie Davies's book "The Strange Death of Moral Britain". He invented a new concept called "causalism" which IMO does a good job of explaining how we ended up with this mindset.
I think I'll pass if the précis on Amazon is anything to go by:
In the period when Britain had a strong national and religious identity, defense of this identity led to legal persecution of male homosexuals. As Britain's identity crumbled, homosexuality ceased to be an important issue for most people. Similarly, all the pressing questions on abortion, capital punishment, and homosexuality were settled permanently on a purely utilitarian basis in Britain, where all sources of moral argument are weak. The ending of the death penalty marked the decline of the influence of the official hierarchies of church and state, the Church of England, the armed forces, and their representative, the Conservative Party.The Strange Death of Moral Britain is a study of moral change, secularization, loss of identity, and the growth of deviant behavior in Britain in the twentieth century.
I know Stockholm and Goteborg (#1 & #3 Swedish cities well). Density is far lower than London
Stockholm - 4 638/km2 London - 5 327/km2
Not vastly lower at all.
That's pretty misleading. Stockholm doesn't have large parks, instead it has lots of water that's not included in the size figures. And London is also a bit of a donut, with some outer London boroughs having very low population density that drags the number down.
I doubt there is any part of Stockholm that is as crowded - on a day to day basis - as Camden, Brent, or any of the other inner London Boroughs.
It's your post that's misleading. Stockholm is 40% green space, while London is 33%, according to this site:
And Stockholm has lots of low-density outer areas too, in one of which I stayed the last time I was there.
The last paragraph is just an empty assertion and I think it's probably wrong because in my time in Stockholm I saw some dense inner city areas, but if you can provide any numbers to back it up I'll be happy to fact-check it.
I fail to understand why people will not do a simple thing like wear a mask in order to help reduce the risk of spreading the virus, do they want to go back into lockdown? What is the objection it’s not exactly the biggest infringement of human rights to get wound up about?
The mask denier of course, in this case Desmond Dwayne. The safety of others is irrelevant. Brexit followed a similar argument, substitute imposition of mask wearing with imposition from the EU.
Wouldn't encouraging masking in ALL enclosed situations AND outdoors when closer than six feet, actually help the economy?
Certainly would personally feels better about going out & about & popping into stores & shops IF masking compliance was higher. And it is going up here in Seattle, but still a ways to go.
Knowing the English mentality, no it wouldn't. A lot of people might stubbornly stay at home as a way of protesting against the facemask rule. It's probably different in other countries, and in Scotland and Wales. Also, "hell is other people" is a surprisingly popular maxim in England in my experience, unlike virtually everywhere else on the planet.
As far as I know no legal instrument has been passed to mandate masks in shops therefore the police can try and fine and we should all say charge me with an offence or go fornicate officer
Actually Regulations were passed by the government under the Regulations (Control of Diseases) Act 1984 this week giving the police full legal authority to impose a £100 fine for not wearing a mask in a shop
Then they will row back on it as there is too much resistance, shops wont enforce it either because those that do will lose custom. Another shit law from a shit government that will be largely ignored. Never pass a law you cant enforce
I don't understand all this stuff about how wearing a face covering when in a shop is going to be unenforceable. Here in Germany very few people were wearing them, then they were made compulsory and everybody wore them. There were no riots, nobody called the police, nobody is refusing to go shopping as a protest.
Shops just put up signs at entrances to remind people.
I did see a person once who'd forgotten, he was reminded by another shopper by pointing at his own mask, and maskless shopper put his mask on.
What's the problem? What on earth do people imagine is going to happen?
German and British culture are not the same when it comes to things like this, whether we like it or not. Germans tend to trust government more.
In Los Angeles, they introduced a rule about mask wearing in shops and... guess what... people started wearing masks in shops.
Nobody seems unhappy. There are no mass demonstrations.
Most people just want to avoid getting ill or making others ill.
So how is Coronavirus going in California now mask wearing is compulsory?
Maybe they should have tried getting in front of the problem rather than chasing it. Clearly waiting till you see a problem with this virus means you’ve left it too late.
How about hand washing, social distancing etc? Those things seem to work.
If the wearing of a mask potentially prevents one unnecessary death, particularly if it happens to be one's own, a minor inconvenience is surely worth it.
I feel like the world is going insane. Face masks compulsory pretty much everywhere? For a disease which has allegedly killed about 50,000 people? Out of a population of 68 million? This is deranged. Next it will be kids in classrooms forced to wear masks. You won't be able to go outside your house without one. It's fucking creepy, who wants to live like this? (actually plenty of authoritarian personality types who love being told what to do by a government that they profess to hate and distrust).
And it is not going to be temporary.
I'd recommend Christie Davies's book "The Strange Death of Moral Britain". He invented a new concept called "causalism" which IMO does a good job of explaining how we ended up with this mindset.
I think I'll pass if the précis on Amazon is anything to go by:
In the period when Britain had a strong national and religious identity, defense of this identity led to legal persecution of male homosexuals. As Britain's identity crumbled, homosexuality ceased to be an important issue for most people. Similarly, all the pressing questions on abortion, capital punishment, and homosexuality were settled permanently on a purely utilitarian basis in Britain, where all sources of moral argument are weak. The ending of the death penalty marked the decline of the influence of the official hierarchies of church and state, the Church of England, the armed forces, and their representative, the Conservative Party.The Strange Death of Moral Britain is a study of moral change, secularization, loss of identity, and the growth of deviant behavior in Britain in the twentieth century.
Ah yes, the good old days when men like Turing were persecuted to death and we could all enjoy a nice old hanging. I yearn for a return to that kind of moral clarity.
I fail to understand why people will not do a simple thing like wear a mask in order to help reduce the risk of spreading the virus, do they want to go back into lockdown? What is the objection it’s not exactly the biggest infringement of human rights to get wound up about?
Theres over 600 MPs, some number will hold views out of step with most people, some will be idiots, some will be geniuses, and some will raise points of view and issues that even they may not believe but feel need to be considered. I hope even the most idiotic MPs feel comfortable suggesting anything on the floor of the House.
How about this for an off the wall prediction - any thoughts? In a few years time there are going to be major concerns starting to be raised about depopulation in developed countries. It is going to be traced back to Coronavirus and a major social changes as a result of lack of and/or restriction of social contact among younger generations. People will have stopped social contact outside of their existing social groups, many of which will also be single sex. Society will have become static and it will become noticeable that there are far fewer casual relationships, developing into longer partnerships. Sex drive will reduce and people will be spending more and more time on their computers. And suddenly researchers will start noticing the lack of babies...
And make no mistake, this is it: it will NEVER end. Even in the unlikely event that a fully effective vaccine is ever developed, this misery will be enforced for all time *just in case* something like Covid ever happens again, or for some similar such spurious justification.
while I think there is a point to make that given we are always at risk of catching disease there is a chance people will argue for permanency of such measures, I feel like your histrionics are misplaced - at present they havent got full use and wont get full compliance during a pandemic, they certainly won't get it when there isnt one.
I fail to understand why people will not do a simple thing like wear a mask in order to help reduce the risk of spreading the virus, do they want to go back into lockdown? What is the objection it’s not exactly the biggest infringement of human rights to get wound up about?
Theres over 600 MPs, some number will hold views out of step with most people, some will be idiots, some will be geniuses, and some will raise points of view and issues that even they may not believe but feel need to be considered. I hope even the most idiotic MPs feel comfortable suggesting anything on the floor of the House.
Judging on a healthy number of posts on here, Swayne's ridiculous posturing finds more favour than common sense would suggest it should.
With regard to masks in offices, we are having to think about whether its worth maintaining our office or not. This could be a tipping point, personally I would lean to closing it down if masks were compulsory - wearing one for an hour on a commute or in shops is quite different to wearing one all day, five days a week.
If its needed, its needed, but it will change the economy even more rapidly.
Our colleagues who will be in the office are supposed to use Zoom to talk to each other rather than have internal meetings. Can’t think of anything more miserable
I fail to understand why people will not do a simple thing like wear a mask in order to help reduce the risk of spreading the virus, do they want to go back into lockdown? What is the objection it’s not exactly the biggest infringement of human rights to get wound up about?
Theres over 600 MPs, some number will hold views out of step with most people, some will be idiots, some will be geniuses, and some will raise points of view and issues that even they may not believe but feel need to be considered. I hope even the most idiotic MPs feel comfortable suggesting anything on the floor of the House.
Judging on a healthy number of posts on here, Swayne's ridiculous posturing finds more favour than common sense would suggest it should.
As the saying goes, theres nothing common about common sense.
Wouldn't encouraging masking in ALL enclosed situations AND outdoors when closer than six feet, actually help the economy?
Certainly would personally feels better about going out & about & popping into stores & shops IF masking compliance was higher. And it is going up here in Seattle, but still a ways to go.
Knowing the English mentality, no it wouldn't. A lot of people might stubbornly stay at home as a way of protesting against the facemask rule. It's probably different in other countries, and in Scotland and Wales. Also, "hell is other people" is a surprisingly popular maxim in England in my experience, unlike virtually everywhere else on the planet.
As far as I know no legal instrument has been passed to mandate masks in shops therefore the police can try and fine and we should all say charge me with an offence or go fornicate officer
Actually Regulations were passed by the government under the Regulations (Control of Diseases) Act 1984 this week giving the police full legal authority to impose a £100 fine for not wearing a mask in a shop
Then they will row back on it as there is too much resistance, shops wont enforce it either because those that do will lose custom. Another shit law from a shit government that will be largely ignored. Never pass a law you cant enforce
I don't understand all this stuff about how wearing a face covering when in a shop is going to be unenforceable. Here in Germany very few people were wearing them, then they were made compulsory and everybody wore them. There were no riots, nobody called the police, nobody is refusing to go shopping as a protest.
Shops just put up signs at entrances to remind people.
I did see a person once who'd forgotten, he was reminded by another shopper by pointing at his own mask, and maskless shopper put his mask on.
What's the problem? What on earth do people imagine is going to happen?
German and British culture are not the same when it comes to things like this, whether we like it or not. Germans tend to trust government more.
In Los Angeles, they introduced a rule about mask wearing in shops and... guess what... people started wearing masks in shops.
Nobody seems unhappy. There are no mass demonstrations.
Most people just want to avoid getting ill or making others ill.
So how is Coronavirus going in California now mask wearing is compulsory?
Maybe they should have tried getting in front of the problem rather than chasing it. Clearly waiting till you see a problem with this virus means you’ve left it too late.
How about hand washing, social distancing etc? Those things seem to work.
Mandatory social distancing means a lockdown, which you seem to be opposed to.
On topic: this is exactly what I was afraid of, now that we've crossed the Rubicon with the shops. In a few weeks' time, the news will be that everyone will be breathing through rags, everywhere outside their own homes, for the rest of our lives. All bloody day, every day, forever.
I spend my day working in a well ventilated and really very large laboratory space with one other bloke. The way the work stations are arranged even keeps us two meters apart the entire time - and we'll still both end up with rags strapped to our faces all damned day. And make no mistake, this is it: it will NEVER end. Even in the unlikely event that a fully effective vaccine is ever developed, this misery will be enforced for all time *just in case* something like Covid ever happens again, or for some similar such spurious justification.
No shopping without rags, no travelling without rags, no sunbathing without rags, no walking alone through the middle of an empty field without rags. And when you finally kick the bucket they'll probably tell your family to bury your corpse wearing a fucking rag.
I hate this country.
No. It’s not. I get you’re down and lashing out rhetorically. This isn’t being done for a love of masks. No matter whether or not some people decide that “No, there’s no other logic, it’s the State deciding for some bizarre reason that they want everyone masked because they’re baddies, don’t you know.
Masks will be compulsory in a handful of enclosed spaces for as long as needed against covid. When a vaccine is here, they’ll be gone like last year’s snow.
What if we don’t get an effective vaccine and it turns out immune response from infection fades after months?
There’s still a lot of complacency that this is all a dream that will abruptly end. It might not. And once behavioural changes have been made, they’re very hard to undo.
Comments
Here in Germany very few people were wearing them, then they were made compulsory and everybody wore them.
There were no riots, nobody called the police, nobody is refusing to go shopping as a protest.
Shops just put up signs at entrances to remind people.
I did see a person once who'd forgotten, he was reminded by another shopper by pointing at his own mask, and maskless shopper put his mask on.
What's the problem? What on earth do people imagine is going to happen?
It's really not such a big inconvenience covering your nose and mouth when in a shop, especially when compared with real issues that people have already had to live with. Like children not being able to go to school, not being able to see elderly relatives, etc.
I think Andy has hit the nail on the head. In Italy, Germany, Scotland, Wales, and most of the planet, people *like* other people. In England, misanthropy is pretty much raised to a national art-form.
See The Atlantic:
Now, much to Bass’s—and pretty much everyone else’s—surprise, Biden’s team is taking her seriously as a potential vice-presidential running mate. One theory is that she’s being vetted to help Biden win favor with the Congressional Black Caucus, which she chairs. Another is that Biden is trying to use the process to elevate as many black women as he can. Yet another is that he’s looking to distract people from speculating about some of the more likely choices. But inside the Biden campaign is another consideration: Over the next month, he’s effectively going to decide whether there will be a competitive Democratic primary in 2024 (or maybe 2028, if he wins and tries to serve until he’s 86 years old). He’s the leader of the party now. Will he decide its future by anointing a successor, or pick someone, like Bass, who’s less likely to run for president?
Biden has wanted to be president for almost 40 years. Now that the White House finally seems within reach, he does not want to be outshone, according to people who know him. He wants to win, but he wants the win to be about him, not his running mate.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/07/karen-bass-joe-biden-running-mate/613975/
That last paragraph reads like campaign spin, perhaps to discourage stories that Biden is past it so the VP is more likely to take over.
https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/english-independence-polling-by-panelbase-1-6745542
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53409521
China's population is projected to fall by half between now and 2100. That has huge implications for China's economic and military heft.
The populations of the USA and UK will hardly change over that period. And, Nigeria could be the second most populous country on Earth, although it seems to me that population growth on that scale could provoke massive civil conflict.
It's pretty easy to see the stronger pick.
I spend my day working in a well ventilated and really very large laboratory space with one other bloke. The way the work stations are arranged even keeps us two meters apart the entire time - and we'll still both end up with rags strapped to our faces all damned day. And make no mistake, this is it: it will NEVER end. Even in the unlikely event that a fully effective vaccine is ever developed, this misery will be enforced for all time *just in case* something like Covid ever happens again, or for some similar such spurious justification.
No shopping without rags, no travelling without rags, no sunbathing without rags, no walking alone through the middle of an empty field without rags. And when you finally kick the bucket they'll probably tell your family to bury your corpse wearing a fucking rag.
I hate this country.
F1: more markets are up. I'm wondering if I should bet now even though I'm not fully awake, as that worked surprisingly well last weekend.
(Gosh, that was easy! I can see why you guys do it: if you bypass the brain, this blog commentary lark is a wheeze.)
Africa is the new China, India, Brazil, Turkey, Indonesia. I’m a huge fan of African equities. Ridiculously cheap at the moment.
Nobody seems unhappy. There are no mass demonstrations.
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1283281683509321728
The chancellor has ordered a review of capital gains tax that could result in the Treasury clawing back billions of pounds from homeowners and investors to help to pay for the coronavirus outbreak.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/rishi-sunak-threat-of-capital-gains-tax-to-pay-for-pandemic-lvmg3vcrs
If its needed, its needed, but it will change the economy even more rapidly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FACK2knC08E
But on the bright side masks are still optional.
I wonder if they could design them with little fans and chimneys on the top to vent any contagious droplets safely upwards.
If one's sources of information are mainstream media outlets, particularly the red tops and the BBC, or popular blogs, the Government is doing just fine.
Desmond stated his personal perspective (it would reduce the amount he shops) and asked about enforcement. He didn’t say he wasn’t going to wear one, but pointed out some downsides
That’s just a different view not acting “like an over privileged man child” or a “fool”.
https://twitter.com/CAPublicHealth/status/1283177976700391424?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet
The silent majority are quite content with their lot, some peel off in a huff however when Government has the affrontary to make them wear a mask for their own and other people's safety. I am not detecting any dissatisfaction from my blue-collar.Boris-loving contacts.
https://twitter.com/BBCNormanS/status/1283291290147467264
It’s not.
I get you’re down and lashing out rhetorically.
This isn’t being done for a love of masks. No matter whether or not some people decide that “No, there’s no other logic, it’s the State deciding for some bizarre reason that they want everyone masked because they’re baddies, don’t you know.
Masks will be compulsory in a handful of enclosed spaces for as long as needed against covid. When a vaccine is here, they’ll be gone like last year’s snow.
By the way who is paying for this s***? Is it me?
But masks in offices. All offices? Even when employers are happy to stick to social distancing measures as an alternative? And when the Government a few days ago were actively saying people SHOULD “get back to the office to help the economy”. I was seriously thinking about exploring whether I had the option yesterday of doing so - just for a bit of a change. It’s pretty much out now.
In the period when Britain had a strong national and religious identity, defense of this identity led to legal persecution of male homosexuals. As Britain's identity crumbled, homosexuality ceased to be an important issue for most people. Similarly, all the pressing questions on abortion, capital punishment, and homosexuality were settled permanently on a purely utilitarian basis in Britain, where all sources of moral argument are weak. The ending of the death penalty marked the decline of the influence of the official hierarchies of church and state, the Church of England, the armed forces, and their representative, the Conservative Party.The Strange Death of Moral Britain is a study of moral change, secularization, loss of identity, and the growth of deviant behavior in Britain in the twentieth century.
http://www.worldcitiescultureforum.com/data/of-public-green-space-parks-and-gardens
And Stockholm has lots of low-density outer areas too, in one of which I stayed the last time I was there.
The last paragraph is just an empty assertion and I think it's probably wrong because in my time in Stockholm I saw some dense inner city areas, but if you can provide any numbers to back it up I'll be happy to fact-check it.
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1283293894378127360
If it wasn't potentially so dangerous, it would be comical.
There’s still a lot of complacency that this is all a dream that will abruptly end. It might not. And once behavioural changes have been made, they’re very hard to undo.