Jeremy Hunt's constituency newsletter (I am an avid reader - it's a good read, with witty asides) predicts that masks in shops eill be compulsory within the next few days.
And does Hunt have views on whether masks should be worn in pubs and restaurants ?
Less than 10% wear them in the supermarkets I've been to.
So that's a lot of people who might get annoyed - not a vote winner.
And if wearing masks are necessary now then the government is admitting it fucked up massively by neither encouraging them four months ago nor ensuring their supply - again not a vote winner.
60% of voters now want masks to be compulsory for shoppers, including 57% of Tory voters
So we're at the point where if the EHRC declare Labour is not institutionally anti-Semitic, it will still be because some PB Tories say it is.
Okay then, I will adhere to what the EHRC says, they know what they're talking about. If they declare Labour not institutionally anti-Semitic, they aren't.
Labour literally cannot win, of course not a surprise from bad faith actors on this site.
If the EHRC says there were no antisemitism issues in the Labour Party and makes no recommendations for changes they recommend for the Labour Party to make then I would be absolutely flabbergasted.
Jeremy Hunt's constituency newsletter (I am an avid reader - it's a good read, with witty asides) predicts that masks in shops eill be compulsory within the next few days.
And does Hunt have views on whether masks should be worn in pubs and restaurants ?
Less than 10% wear them in the supermarkets I've been to.
So that's a lot of people who might get annoyed - not a vote winner.
And if wearing masks are necessary now then the government is admitting it fucked up massively by neither encouraging them four months ago nor ensuring their supply - again not a vote winner.
60% of voters now want masks to be compulsory for shoppers, including 57% of Tory voters
I thought the fraction was higher than that now, approaching a third or so?
Not if what I saw in Cambridge when I was out shopping on Saturday is anything to go by. Mask use at perhaps 5%, certainly no more than 10%, and quite a lot of those were being worn as completely useless necklaces by people who were yakking on the phone, walking along whilst eating stuff, or probably in some cases just plain straightforward sick of breathing through a rag.
I think these polls showing massive support for the things are just examples of people giving virtue signalling answers. In reality then don't mind masks being theoretically imposed upon other people, but have no intention of using them themselves.
Either there's a massive, huge concentration of mask wearers elsewhere in the country or people are telling porkies. My money's on the latter. Opinion polls are not the Voice of God, they don't reveal the exact truth 100% of the time.
I've had enough of this - how people are still buying this bollocks is beyond me. My father spent his last weeks of his life alone because of lockdown - given the choice I'm sure he'd have rather taken the risk and had the company. The story of covid is hysteria and moral panic on a global scale and the government has behaved disgracefully from the get go. Now they want to insist on us wearing masks. They can fuck right off. PS I voted Tory in December, this plus insipid reaction to BLM protests means I never will again.
Masks are twattish bollocks.
I will do by absolute best to wear one as little as possible and break the boundaries of the rules as much as I can.
Placebo crap. Might as well fit a condom onto a cucumber and strap it onto your head.
I don't understand your problem with masks.
The scientific evidence is they work and the more they minimise R the less we need other actions to take the burden.
I'd rather masks than alternative restrictions.
I'm in favour of compulsory masks in shops, but I'm certainly not claiming the libertarian label. Are you still doing so ?
I agree with Gove.
I think masks should be worn and encouraged, but I don't think they should need to be made compulsory to do so. I think wearing a mask in these circumstances should be considered good manners, like saying please and thank you - I believe in good manners and try to follow them but I don't think they should need to be enforced by law.
Furthermore while I think that a compulsory mask law would be illiberal, I think if the choice is between shutting down activity with a second lockdown or having the activity but with masks then the latter is the more liberal option.
Finally I think if shops want to have 'masks must be worn' as their own policy then that is their free choice and is a liberal solution too. Just as if a premise wants to have a 'shirts must be worn' policy.
Is the polite transmission of a deadly disease because you refuse to wear a mask, good manners?
If I cough before this pandemic either put my hands to my mouth or coughed into my elbow if I couldn't do that. Coughing without doing so is very, very bad manners - but its not criminal.
Refusing to wear a mask when you are capable of doing so should be as socially ostracised and socially unacceptable as in normal times pre-COVID walking around coughing without bothering to cover your mouth would be.
But I don't see why the government need get involved.
In that case I would say wearing masks is more of drunk-driving situation than a mandatory seatbelts one. With seatbelts you could make a libertarian case for allowing people to take the risk that only kills themselves. But as drunk-driving or not wearing a mask during an epidemic can kill other people there is no case for making either optional
Jeremy Hunt's constituency newsletter (I am an avid reader - it's a good read, with witty asides) predicts that masks in shops eill be compulsory within the next few days.
And does Hunt have views on whether masks should be worn in pubs and restaurants ?
Less than 10% wear them in the supermarkets I've been to.
So that's a lot of people who might get annoyed - not a vote winner.
And if wearing masks are necessary now then the government is admitting it fucked up massively by neither encouraging them four months ago nor ensuring their supply - again not a vote winner.
60% of voters now want masks to be compulsory for shoppers, including 57% of Tory voters
It isn't because it is not yet the law to make wearing them mandatory as it is on public transport, by the end of the week it likely will be the law and compulsory to wear a facemask while shopping
And High Streets will be even more bolloxed.
Still it means more profits for Amazon.
And good luck getting people to go to pubs and restaurants after they've been told that its not safe.
The reverse, wearing facemasks reduces the spread of Covid making it safer to go shopping, not making facemasks compulsory means it is more sensible to shop via online delivery rather than in store
People will be more afraid and so will go out less.
Whereas there's sod all risk currently going to the shops.
Take a look at where the outbreaks occur - factories, farms, care homes and hospitals. Not shops.
But by your reasoning people will not go to pubs and restaurants because masks aren't worn on those.
What’s the PB pub-going factor like? Have we all been down the pub - or not? I’ve been twice, albeit to the same pub both times!
No pub visits yet, but we're not big drinkers. Very nice trip to restaurant on Saturday evening though. Local hotel, seemed to be doing a pretty decent trade in food indoors, and in booze in the garden outside. I'm cautiously optimistic that most of the local businesses can get through this thing, provided that there are no major setbacks.
Jeremy Hunt's constituency newsletter (I am an avid reader - it's a good read, with witty asides) predicts that masks in shops eill be compulsory within the next few days.
And does Hunt have views on whether masks should be worn in pubs and restaurants ?
Less than 10% wear them in the supermarkets I've been to.
So that's a lot of people who might get annoyed - not a vote winner.
And if wearing masks are necessary now then the government is admitting it fucked up massively by neither encouraging them four months ago nor ensuring their supply - again not a vote winner.
60% of voters now want masks to be compulsory for shoppers, including 57% of Tory voters
It isn't because it is not yet the law to make wearing them mandatory as it is on public transport, by the end of the week it likely will be the law and compulsory to wear a facemask while shopping
And High Streets will be even more bolloxed.
Still it means more profits for Amazon.
And good luck getting people to go to pubs and restaurants after they've been told that its not safe.
The reverse, wearing facemasks reduces the spread of Covid making it safer to go shopping, not making facemasks compulsory means it is more sensible to shop via online delivery rather than in store
People will be more afraid and so will go out less.
Whereas there's sod all risk currently going to the shops.
Take a look at where the outbreaks occur - factories, farms, care homes and hospitals. Not shops.
But by your reasoning people will not go to pubs and restaurants because masks aren't worn on those.
As nichomar pointed out below studies show 70% of people will get infected if an infected person in their proximity does not wear a mask, only 5% will if an infected person does wear a mask.
Face masks are already compulsory for staff and outpatients and visitors in care homes and hospitals, if you are in a pub you are on one table with limited numbers allowed inside not constantly in others vicinity in shopping aisles
What’s the PB pub-going factor like? Have we all been down the pub - or not? I’ve been twice, albeit to the same pub both times!
Opening day, Saturday just gone and yesterday. Going Thursday evening as well to meet some work colleagues.
Good for you, hope you enjoyed it. I did!
Very much, it was quite a relief to be back in the pub, next weekend I'm meeting some friends and we haven't seen each other in person since before lockdown, everyone is looking forwards to it a lot and the pub is hosting a BBQ day which is going to be great.
Jeremy Hunt's constituency newsletter (I am an avid reader - it's a good read, with witty asides) predicts that masks in shops eill be compulsory within the next few days.
And does Hunt have views on whether masks should be worn in pubs and restaurants ?
Less than 10% wear them in the supermarkets I've been to.
So that's a lot of people who might get annoyed - not a vote winner.
And if wearing masks are necessary now then the government is admitting it fucked up massively by neither encouraging them four months ago nor ensuring their supply - again not a vote winner.
60% of voters now want masks to be compulsory for shoppers, including 57% of Tory voters
Hmm I think people don't wear them because others don't. If there's a degree of compulsion that changes the equation.
They might wear them but its not going to be a vote winner.
They'll also want to know why they need to wear them now when the government has told them for four months that they don't.
And they'll want to know why politicians don't bother wearing them while telling others to do so.
It's not that difficult because the government can say it's part of moving away from 2m social distancing to 1m social distancing and allowing larger groups of people to be in the same place (no more queueing, groups of 20 people meeting outdoors etc...). Honestly, if the government links mask wearing to no longer having to queue up to shop then it will be a very big vote winner.
Masks qualify for the 1 metre rule because they're mitigation. If everyone is wearing a mask then the 'rule' is de facto 1 metre...
What’s the PB pub-going factor like? Have we all been down the pub - or not? I’ve been twice, albeit to the same pub both times!
I went to pick up a carryout at the weekend (they have been doing offsales throughout). Much busier than I was expecting, plus a few of the regulars who should definitely be in the 'shielding' category.
Jeremy Hunt's constituency newsletter (I am an avid reader - it's a good read, with witty asides) predicts that masks in shops eill be compulsory within the next few days.
And does Hunt have views on whether masks should be worn in pubs and restaurants ?
Less than 10% wear them in the supermarkets I've been to.
So that's a lot of people who might get annoyed - not a vote winner.
And if wearing masks are necessary now then the government is admitting it fucked up massively by neither encouraging them four months ago nor ensuring their supply - again not a vote winner.
60% of voters now want masks to be compulsory for shoppers, including 57% of Tory voters
It isn't because it is not yet the law to make wearing them mandatory as it is on public transport, by the end of the week it likely will be the law and compulsory to wear a facemask while shopping
And High Streets will be even more bolloxed.
Still it means more profits for Amazon.
And good luck getting people to go to pubs and restaurants after they've been told that its not safe.
The reverse, wearing facemasks reduces the spread of Covid making it safer to go shopping, not making facemasks compulsory means it is more sensible to shop via online delivery rather than in store
People will be more afraid and so will go out less.
Whereas there's sod all risk currently going to the shops.
Take a look at where the outbreaks occur - factories, farms, care homes and hospitals. Not shops.
But by your reasoning people will not go to pubs and restaurants because masks aren't worn on those.
Utter rubbish.
As nichomar pointed out below studies show 70% of people will get infected if an infected person in their proximity does not wear a mask, only 5% will if an infected person does wear a mask.
Face masks are already compulsory for staff in care homes and hospitals, if you are in a pub you are on one table with limited numbers allowed inside not constantly in others vicinity in shopping aisles
You'll bleat whatever the current party line is.
Three days ago you would have told us that masks are not necessary.
Jeremy Hunt's constituency newsletter (I am an avid reader - it's a good read, with witty asides) predicts that masks in shops eill be compulsory within the next few days.
And does Hunt have views on whether masks should be worn in pubs and restaurants ?
Less than 10% wear them in the supermarkets I've been to.
So that's a lot of people who might get annoyed - not a vote winner.
And if wearing masks are necessary now then the government is admitting it fucked up massively by neither encouraging them four months ago nor ensuring their supply - again not a vote winner.
60% of voters now want masks to be compulsory for shoppers, including 57% of Tory voters
Hmm I think people don't wear them because others don't. If there's a degree of compulsion that changes the equation.
They might wear them but its not going to be a vote winner.
They'll also want to know why they need to wear them now when the government has told them for four months that they don't.
And they'll want to know why politicians don't bother wearing them while telling others to do so.
It's not that difficult because the government can say it's part of moving away from 2m social distancing to 1m social distancing and allowing larger groups of people to be in the same place (no more queueing, groups of 20 people meeting outdoors etc...). Honestly, if the government links mask wearing to no longer having to queue up to shop then it will be a very big vote winner.
Masks qualify for the 1 metre rule because they're mitigation. If everyone is wearing a mask then the 'rule' is de facto 1 metre...
Yes, and if the government officially links mandatory mask wearing to 1m distancing they will prove quite popular IMO as shops can move from 30% capacity to 70% capacity. Shops which are currently struggling to turn a profit with just 30% capacity and public put off by queueing up will get a huge boost from this. We need some good polling on where the cut off line is and how much people will want to gain in return from wearing masks.
Jeremy Hunt's constituency newsletter (I am an avid reader - it's a good read, with witty asides) predicts that masks in shops eill be compulsory within the next few days.
And does Hunt have views on whether masks should be worn in pubs and restaurants ?
Less than 10% wear them in the supermarkets I've been to.
So that's a lot of people who might get annoyed - not a vote winner.
And if wearing masks are necessary now then the government is admitting it fucked up massively by neither encouraging them four months ago nor ensuring their supply - again not a vote winner.
60% of voters now want masks to be compulsory for shoppers, including 57% of Tory voters
It isn't because it is not yet the law to make wearing them mandatory as it is on public transport, by the end of the week it likely will be the law and compulsory to wear a facemask while shopping
And High Streets will be even more bolloxed.
Still it means more profits for Amazon.
And good luck getting people to go to pubs and restaurants after they've been told that its not safe.
The reverse, wearing facemasks reduces the spread of Covid making it safer to go shopping, not making facemasks compulsory means it is more sensible to shop via online delivery rather than in store
People will be more afraid and so will go out less.
Whereas there's sod all risk currently going to the shops.
Take a look at where the outbreaks occur - factories, farms, care homes and hospitals. Not shops.
But by your reasoning people will not go to pubs and restaurants because masks aren't worn on those.
Utter rubbish.
As nichomar pointed out below studies show 70% of people will get infected if an infected person in their proximity does not wear a mask, only 5% will if an infected person does wear a mask.
Face masks are already compulsory for staff in care homes and hospitals, if you are in a pub you are on one table with limited numbers allowed inside not constantly in others vicinity in shopping aisles
You'll bleat whatever the current party line is.
Three days ago you would have told us that masks are not necessary.
No I wouldn't I have always supported facemasks and got mine over a month ago and have been wearing it shopping
Jeremy Hunt's constituency newsletter (I am an avid reader - it's a good read, with witty asides) predicts that masks in shops eill be compulsory within the next few days.
And does Hunt have views on whether masks should be worn in pubs and restaurants ?
Less than 10% wear them in the supermarkets I've been to.
So that's a lot of people who might get annoyed - not a vote winner.
And if wearing masks are necessary now then the government is admitting it fucked up massively by neither encouraging them four months ago nor ensuring their supply - again not a vote winner.
60% of voters now want masks to be compulsory for shoppers, including 57% of Tory voters
And they'll want to know why politicians don't bother wearing them while telling others to do so.
Every single Tory MP will have a photo with a mask on in a shop on their twitter when they change it.
Too late.
Months of photos of them pulling pints, getting hair cuts and shopping without masks.
So they'll need to explain why masks were not needed for four months but are needed now.
And they'll be asked to apologise for the tens of thousands of lives lost because they told people not to wear masks.
The barber shop I passed by running had screens and masks and customers wearing masks. The smokers in the doorway of the next door pub looked like 'true heroes of the economy'..
What’s the PB pub-going factor like? Have we all been down the pub - or not? I’ve been twice, albeit to the same pub both times!
Opening day, Saturday just gone and yesterday. Going Thursday evening as well to meet some work colleagues.
Good for you, hope you enjoyed it. I did!
Very much, it was quite a relief to be back in the pub, next weekend I'm meeting some friends and we haven't seen each other in person since before lockdown, everyone is looking forwards to it a lot and the pub is hosting a BBQ day which is going to be great.
Fantastic. It’s great to hear these stories. We met friends at the pub last weekend and hosted Sunday lunch yesterday. Really, the best things in life are free or almost free (although I did spend £60 on a rib of beef!)
Jeremy Hunt's constituency newsletter (I am an avid reader - it's a good read, with witty asides) predicts that masks in shops eill be compulsory within the next few days.
And does Hunt have views on whether masks should be worn in pubs and restaurants ?
Less than 10% wear them in the supermarkets I've been to.
So that's a lot of people who might get annoyed - not a vote winner.
And if wearing masks are necessary now then the government is admitting it fucked up massively by neither encouraging them four months ago nor ensuring their supply - again not a vote winner.
60% of voters now want masks to be compulsory for shoppers, including 57% of Tory voters
It isn't because it is not yet the law to make wearing them mandatory as it is on public transport, by the end of the week it likely will be the law and compulsory to wear a facemask while shopping
And High Streets will be even more bolloxed.
Still it means more profits for Amazon.
And good luck getting people to go to pubs and restaurants after they've been told that its not safe.
The reverse, wearing facemasks reduces the spread of Covid making it safer to go shopping, not making facemasks compulsory means it is more sensible to shop via online delivery rather than in store
People will be more afraid and so will go out less.
Whereas there's sod all risk currently going to the shops.
Take a look at where the outbreaks occur - factories, farms, care homes and hospitals. Not shops.
But by your reasoning people will not go to pubs and restaurants because masks aren't worn on those.
Why would people be more afraid, the opposite is true. If people know that wearing a mask prevents spread to others - and know that others are wearing masks it will make people less afraid not more.
Unless you're saying people have some illogical, hypochondriac fear of masks themselves.
Jeremy Hunt's constituency newsletter (I am an avid reader - it's a good read, with witty asides) predicts that masks in shops eill be compulsory within the next few days.
And does Hunt have views on whether masks should be worn in pubs and restaurants ?
Less than 10% wear them in the supermarkets I've been to.
So that's a lot of people who might get annoyed - not a vote winner.
And if wearing masks are necessary now then the government is admitting it fucked up massively by neither encouraging them four months ago nor ensuring their supply - again not a vote winner.
60% of voters now want masks to be compulsory for shoppers, including 57% of Tory voters
What’s the PB pub-going factor like? Have we all been down the pub - or not? I’ve been twice, albeit to the same pub both times!
I went to pick up a carryout at the weekend (they have been doing offsales throughout). Much busier than I was expecting, plus a few of the regulars who should definitely be in the 'shielding' category.
7 nights out of 10 for me. All different pubs.
Good to see the working class getting on it
But a significant part of my social circle won't go out. 55+
Jeremy Hunt's constituency newsletter (I am an avid reader - it's a good read, with witty asides) predicts that masks in shops eill be compulsory within the next few days.
And does Hunt have views on whether masks should be worn in pubs and restaurants ?
Less than 10% wear them in the supermarkets I've been to.
So that's a lot of people who might get annoyed - not a vote winner.
And if wearing masks are necessary now then the government is admitting it fucked up massively by neither encouraging them four months ago nor ensuring their supply - again not a vote winner.
60% of voters now want masks to be compulsory for shoppers, including 57% of Tory voters
It isn't because it is not yet the law to make wearing them mandatory as it is on public transport, by the end of the week it likely will be the law and compulsory to wear a facemask while shopping
And High Streets will be even more bolloxed.
Still it means more profits for Amazon.
And good luck getting people to go to pubs and restaurants after they've been told that its not safe.
The reverse, wearing facemasks reduces the spread of Covid making it safer to go shopping, not making facemasks compulsory means it is more sensible to shop via online delivery rather than in store
People will be more afraid and so will go out less.
Whereas there's sod all risk currently going to the shops.
Take a look at where the outbreaks occur - factories, farms, care homes and hospitals. Not shops.
But by your reasoning people will not go to pubs and restaurants because masks aren't worn on those.
Utter rubbish.
As nichomar pointed out below studies show 70% of people will get infected if an infected person in their proximity does not wear a mask, only 5% will if an infected person does wear a mask.
Face masks are already compulsory for staff in care homes and hospitals, if you are in a pub you are on one table with limited numbers allowed inside not constantly in others vicinity in shopping aisles
You'll bleat whatever the current party line is.
Three days ago you would have told us that masks are not necessary.
Quite so. His sycophancy is sickening TBH. How can an ostensibly intelligent person can be so obsequious?
Jeremy Hunt's constituency newsletter (I am an avid reader - it's a good read, with witty asides) predicts that masks in shops eill be compulsory within the next few days.
And does Hunt have views on whether masks should be worn in pubs and restaurants ?
Less than 10% wear them in the supermarkets I've been to.
So that's a lot of people who might get annoyed - not a vote winner.
And if wearing masks are necessary now then the government is admitting it fucked up massively by neither encouraging them four months ago nor ensuring their supply - again not a vote winner.
60% of voters now want masks to be compulsory for shoppers, including 57% of Tory voters
It isn't because it is not yet the law to make wearing them mandatory as it is on public transport, by the end of the week it likely will be the law and compulsory to wear a facemask while shopping
And High Streets will be even more bolloxed.
Still it means more profits for Amazon.
And good luck getting people to go to pubs and restaurants after they've been told that its not safe.
The reverse, wearing facemasks reduces the spread of Covid making it safer to go shopping, not making facemasks compulsory means it is more sensible to shop via online delivery rather than in store
People will be more afraid and so will go out less.
Whereas there's sod all risk currently going to the shops.
Take a look at where the outbreaks occur - factories, farms, care homes and hospitals. Not shops.
But by your reasoning people will not go to pubs and restaurants because masks aren't worn on those.
You wouldn't get me on a train, plane, tube bus or taxi though, thank you very much.
I can live quite comfortably without shopping offline.
Jeremy Hunt's constituency newsletter (I am an avid reader - it's a good read, with witty asides) predicts that masks in shops eill be compulsory within the next few days.
And does Hunt have views on whether masks should be worn in pubs and restaurants ?
Less than 10% wear them in the supermarkets I've been to.
So that's a lot of people who might get annoyed - not a vote winner.
And if wearing masks are necessary now then the government is admitting it fucked up massively by neither encouraging them four months ago nor ensuring their supply - again not a vote winner.
60% of voters now want masks to be compulsory for shoppers, including 57% of Tory voters
I thought the fraction was higher than that now, approaching a third or so?
Not if what I saw in Cambridge when I was out shopping on Saturday is anything to go by. Mask use at perhaps 5%, certainly no more than 10%, and quite a lot of those were being worn as completely useless necklaces by people who were yakking on the phone, walking along whilst eating stuff, or probably in some cases just plain straightforward sick of breathing through a rag.
I think these polls showing massive support for the things are just examples of people giving virtue signalling answers. In reality then don't mind masks being theoretically imposed upon other people, but have no intention of using them themselves.
Either there's a massive, huge concentration of mask wearers elsewhere in the country or people are telling porkies. My money's on the latter. Opinion polls are not the Voice of God, they don't reveal the exact truth 100% of the time.
Definitely agree opinion polls wont tell the exact truth but just been on tube for first time and mask compliance 85-90%. Nearly all take it off immediately leaving the station.
Jeremy Hunt's constituency newsletter (I am an avid reader - it's a good read, with witty asides) predicts that masks in shops eill be compulsory within the next few days.
And does Hunt have views on whether masks should be worn in pubs and restaurants ?
Less than 10% wear them in the supermarkets I've been to.
So that's a lot of people who might get annoyed - not a vote winner.
And if wearing masks are necessary now then the government is admitting it fucked up massively by neither encouraging them four months ago nor ensuring their supply - again not a vote winner.
60% of voters now want masks to be compulsory for shoppers, including 57% of Tory voters
Hmm I think people don't wear them because others don't. If there's a degree of compulsion that changes the equation.
They might wear them but its not going to be a vote winner.
They'll also want to know why they need to wear them now when the government has told them for four months that they don't.
And they'll want to know why politicians don't bother wearing them while telling others to do so.
It's not that difficult because the government can say it's part of moving away from 2m social distancing to 1m social distancing and allowing larger groups of people to be in the same place (no more queueing, groups of 20 people meeting outdoors etc...). Honestly, if the government links mask wearing to no longer having to queue up to shop then it will be a very big vote winner.
I disagree but we'll see.
I suspect that as in most changes the government will be blamed for negative effects while getting little appreciation for positive effects.
And they'll want to know why politicians don't bother wearing them while telling others to do so.
Every single Tory MP will have a photo with a mask on in a shop on their twitter when they change it.
Too late.
Months of photos of them pulling pints, getting hair cuts and shopping without masks.
So they'll need to explain why masks were not needed for four months but are needed now.
And they'll be asked to apologise for the tens of thousands of lives lost because they told people not to wear masks.
The barber shop I passed by running had screens and masks and customers wearing masks. The smokers in the doorway of the next door pub looked like 'true heroes of the economy'..
And they'll want to know why politicians don't bother wearing them while telling others to do so.
Every single Tory MP will have a photo with a mask on in a shop on their twitter when they change it.
Too late.
Months of photos of them pulling pints, getting hair cuts and shopping without masks.
So they'll need to explain why masks were not needed for four months but are needed now.
And they'll be asked to apologise for the tens of thousands of lives lost because they told people not to wear masks.
The barber shop I passed by running had screens and masks and customers wearing masks. The smokers in the doorway of the next door pub looked like 'true heroes of the economy'..
Presumably being true heroes of the economy by not needing a state pension...
Went to shop again today for the stuff I forgot - only person not complying was a pensioner
I'm by the seaside, which seems to have been invaded by Weegies coming down to the caravan, none of whom know how to socially distance, so I'll keep on mask wearing.
Jeremy Hunt's constituency newsletter (I am an avid reader - it's a good read, with witty asides) predicts that masks in shops eill be compulsory within the next few days.
And does Hunt have views on whether masks should be worn in pubs and restaurants ?
Less than 10% wear them in the supermarkets I've been to.
So that's a lot of people who might get annoyed - not a vote winner.
And if wearing masks are necessary now then the government is admitting it fucked up massively by neither encouraging them four months ago nor ensuring their supply - again not a vote winner.
60% of voters now want masks to be compulsory for shoppers, including 57% of Tory voters
It isn't because it is not yet the law to make wearing them mandatory as it is on public transport, by the end of the week it likely will be the law and compulsory to wear a facemask while shopping
And High Streets will be even more bolloxed.
Still it means more profits for Amazon.
And good luck getting people to go to pubs and restaurants after they've been told that its not safe.
The reverse, wearing facemasks reduces the spread of Covid making it safer to go shopping, not making facemasks compulsory means it is more sensible to shop via online delivery rather than in store
Think you are both right here.
Functional shops - better with masks. Leisure orientated shops - worse with masks.
There will be winners and losers with either policy.
From a health (as opposed to economic) perspective is switching from 2m distancing to 1m + face covering actually a good trade off? And noting that the Govt’s current line appears to be that masks are an additional useful precaution, not a replacement for other measures.
I also wouldn’t be surprised if a fair number of people are looking at the publishing testing figures and doing the maths, and concluding the the risks of encountering this virus in many areas at present is vanishingly small.
What’s the PB pub-going factor like? Have we all been down the pub - or not? I’ve been twice, albeit to the same pub both times!
Opening day, Saturday just gone and yesterday. Going Thursday evening as well to meet some work colleagues.
Good for you, hope you enjoyed it. I did!
Very much, it was quite a relief to be back in the pub, next weekend I'm meeting some friends and we haven't seen each other in person since before lockdown, everyone is looking forwards to it a lot and the pub is hosting a BBQ day which is going to be great.
Fantastic. It’s great to hear these stories. We met friends at the pub last weekend and hosted Sunday lunch yesterday. Really, the best things in life are free or almost free (although I did spend £60 on a rib of beef!)
That rib of beef sounds great. Hoping that the pubs are actually able to turn a profit from this, but it was actually pretty empty yesterday, the same pub is normally pretty full for Sunday lunch. One of my local ones is turning the parking into a temporary structure with more shade and protection from the rain.
Jeremy Hunt's constituency newsletter (I am an avid reader - it's a good read, with witty asides) predicts that masks in shops eill be compulsory within the next few days.
And does Hunt have views on whether masks should be worn in pubs and restaurants ?
Less than 10% wear them in the supermarkets I've been to.
So that's a lot of people who might get annoyed - not a vote winner.
And if wearing masks are necessary now then the government is admitting it fucked up massively by neither encouraging them four months ago nor ensuring their supply - again not a vote winner.
60% of voters now want masks to be compulsory for shoppers, including 57% of Tory voters
Hmm I think people don't wear them because others don't. If there's a degree of compulsion that changes the equation.
They might wear them but its not going to be a vote winner.
They'll also want to know why they need to wear them now when the government has told them for four months that they don't.
And they'll want to know why politicians don't bother wearing them while telling others to do so.
It's not that difficult because the government can say it's part of moving away from 2m social distancing to 1m social distancing and allowing larger groups of people to be in the same place (no more queueing, groups of 20 people meeting outdoors etc...). Honestly, if the government links mask wearing to no longer having to queue up to shop then it will be a very big vote winner.
I disagree but we'll see.
I suspect that as in most changes the government will be blamed for negative effects while getting little appreciation for positive effects.
But there are few to no negative effects from mask wearing.
I wonder at what point it'll move on to encouraging, then recommending, then mandating them outside, too. And it'll be "because there's less risk, but there's still a risk".
I don't think they'll be mandated for simply being outside at any point.
I hope you're right, but I wouldn't put anything past this Government. They wouldn't even be the first to do it. There are draconian mask rules already in force in Spain, for example.
Severe yes but not harsh, and widely supported, we don’t want to go back to where we were with a total lockdown for 50+ days.
Well, like I said further down thread, putting up with masks in shops is one thing but being made to breathe through a bedsheet whenever you leave the house is another. It's ineffectual, completely unnecessary (whatever country you're living in,) and therefore just the sort of thing that a Government would mandate purely in order to look like it was "doing something."
Outdoor settings (especially if you avoid facilities like outdoor playgrounds and gyms, where you have hard surfaces that are frequently handled,) present a very low to negligible risk of transmission. Passing somebody walking the other way on the pavement or wandering around in a park is very safe. We've even had mass gatherings on beaches, to which precisely no subsequent disease spikes have been linked. The relative safety of outdoor settings has been established from relatively early on in this epidemic and has never been seriously questioned.
Thus, "masks everywhere" is quackery, and any administration attempting to impose such a policy by diktat are charlatans.
I wonder at what point it'll move on to encouraging, then recommending, then mandating them outside, too. And it'll be "because there's less risk, but there's still a risk".
I don't think they'll be mandated for simply being outside at any point.
I hope you're right, but I wouldn't put anything past this Government. They wouldn't even be the first to do it. There are draconian mask rules already in force in Spain, for example.
Severe yes but not harsh, and widely supported, we don’t want to go back to where we were with a total lockdown for 50+ days.
Well, like I said further down thread, putting up with masks in shops is one thing but being made to breathe through a bedsheet whenever you leave the house is another. It's ineffectual, completely unnecessary (whatever country you're living in,) and therefore just the sort of thing that a Government would mandate purely in order to look like it was "doing something."
Outdoor settings (especially if you avoid facilities like outdoor playgrounds and gyms, where you have hard surfaces that are frequently handled,) present a very low to negligible risk of transmission. Passing somebody walking the other way on the pavement or wandering around in a park is very safe. We've even had mass gatherings on beaches, to which precisely no subsequent disease spikes have been linked. The relative safety of outdoor settings has been established from relatively early on in this epidemic and has never been seriously questioned.
Thus, "masks everywhere" is quackery, and any administration attempting to impose such a policy by diktat are charlatans.
What about masks wherever smoking bans are in force? IE indoors, train platforms etc
In American Covid news things have got slightly less grim in Houston. Acouple of days ago it looked like they would be going into their temporary ICU capacity within a fortnight such was the growth in ICU cases. But now the worst case projections don't see them breaching that level of more than a week and imo it looks like ICU cases have levelled off for now.
I wonder at what point it'll move on to encouraging, then recommending, then mandating them outside, too. And it'll be "because there's less risk, but there's still a risk".
I don't think they'll be mandated for simply being outside at any point.
I hope you're right, but I wouldn't put anything past this Government. They wouldn't even be the first to do it. There are draconian mask rules already in force in Spain, for example.
Severe yes but not harsh, and widely supported, we don’t want to go back to where we were with a total lockdown for 50+ days.
Well, like I said further down thread, putting up with masks in shops is one thing but being made to breathe through a bedsheet whenever you leave the house is another. It's ineffectual, completely unnecessary (whatever country you're living in,) and therefore just the sort of thing that a Government would mandate purely in order to look like it was "doing something."
Outdoor settings (especially if you avoid facilities like outdoor playgrounds and gyms, where you have hard surfaces that are frequently handled,) present a very low to negligible risk of transmission. Passing somebody walking the other way on the pavement or wandering around in a park is very safe. We've even had mass gatherings on beaches, to which precisely no subsequent disease spikes have been linked. The relative safety of outdoor settings has been established from relatively early on in this epidemic and has never been seriously questioned.
Thus, "masks everywhere" is quackery, and any administration attempting to impose such a policy by diktat are charlatans.
What about masks wherever smoking bans are in force? IE indoors, train platforms etc
I think that's a really good idea, with an exemption for eating and drinking.
Jeremy Hunt's constituency newsletter (I am an avid reader - it's a good read, with witty asides) predicts that masks in shops eill be compulsory within the next few days.
And does Hunt have views on whether masks should be worn in pubs and restaurants ?
Less than 10% wear them in the supermarkets I've been to.
So that's a lot of people who might get annoyed - not a vote winner.
And if wearing masks are necessary now then the government is admitting it fucked up massively by neither encouraging them four months ago nor ensuring their supply - again not a vote winner.
60% of voters now want masks to be compulsory for shoppers, including 57% of Tory voters
Hmm I think people don't wear them because others don't. If there's a degree of compulsion that changes the equation.
They might wear them but its not going to be a vote winner.
They'll also want to know why they need to wear them now when the government has told them for four months that they don't.
And they'll want to know why politicians don't bother wearing them while telling others to do so.
It's not that difficult because the government can say it's part of moving away from 2m social distancing to 1m social distancing and allowing larger groups of people to be in the same place (no more queueing, groups of 20 people meeting outdoors etc...). Honestly, if the government links mask wearing to no longer having to queue up to shop then it will be a very big vote winner.
I disagree but we'll see.
I suspect that as in most changes the government will be blamed for negative effects while getting little appreciation for positive effects.
I wonder at what point it'll move on to encouraging, then recommending, then mandating them outside, too. And it'll be "because there's less risk, but there's still a risk".
I don't think they'll be mandated for simply being outside at any point.
I hope you're right, but I wouldn't put anything past this Government. They wouldn't even be the first to do it. There are draconian mask rules already in force in Spain, for example.
Severe yes but not harsh, and widely supported, we don’t want to go back to where we were with a total lockdown for 50+ days.
Well, like I said further down thread, putting up with masks in shops is one thing but being made to breathe through a bedsheet whenever you leave the house is another. It's ineffectual, completely unnecessary (whatever country you're living in,) and therefore just the sort of thing that a Government would mandate purely in order to look like it was "doing something."
Outdoor settings (especially if you avoid facilities like outdoor playgrounds and gyms, where you have hard surfaces that are frequently handled,) present a very low to negligible risk of transmission. Passing somebody walking the other way on the pavement or wandering around in a park is very safe. We've even had mass gatherings on beaches, to which precisely no subsequent disease spikes have been linked. The relative safety of outdoor settings has been established from relatively early on in this epidemic and has never been seriously questioned.
Thus, "masks everywhere" is quackery, and any administration attempting to impose such a policy by diktat are charlatans.
What about masks wherever smoking bans are in force? IE indoors, train platforms etc
Not many people would be willing to work from offices under such a rule.
I wonder at what point it'll move on to encouraging, then recommending, then mandating them outside, too. And it'll be "because there's less risk, but there's still a risk".
I don't think they'll be mandated for simply being outside at any point.
I hope you're right, but I wouldn't put anything past this Government. They wouldn't even be the first to do it. There are draconian mask rules already in force in Spain, for example.
Severe yes but not harsh, and widely supported, we don’t want to go back to where we were with a total lockdown for 50+ days.
Well, like I said further down thread, putting up with masks in shops is one thing but being made to breathe through a bedsheet whenever you leave the house is another. It's ineffectual, completely unnecessary (whatever country you're living in,) and therefore just the sort of thing that a Government would mandate purely in order to look like it was "doing something."
Outdoor settings (especially if you avoid facilities like outdoor playgrounds and gyms, where you have hard surfaces that are frequently handled,) present a very low to negligible risk of transmission. Passing somebody walking the other way on the pavement or wandering around in a park is very safe. We've even had mass gatherings on beaches, to which precisely no subsequent disease spikes have been linked. The relative safety of outdoor settings has been established from relatively early on in this epidemic and has never been seriously questioned.
Thus, "masks everywhere" is quackery, and any administration attempting to impose such a policy by diktat are charlatans.
On the surface I would agree that solitary walks should not be a problem, the problem we have out here is the holiday makers have a tendency to gather in groups whilst out walking and forget there is a problem. At least having the mask on makes them think before kissing everybody. Also outdoor markets can be a bun fight although it does look like they are a lot quieter than normal.
Jeremy Hunt's constituency newsletter (I am an avid reader - it's a good read, with witty asides) predicts that masks in shops eill be compulsory within the next few days.
And does Hunt have views on whether masks should be worn in pubs and restaurants ?
Less than 10% wear them in the supermarkets I've been to.
So that's a lot of people who might get annoyed - not a vote winner.
And if wearing masks are necessary now then the government is admitting it fucked up massively by neither encouraging them four months ago nor ensuring their supply - again not a vote winner.
60% of voters now want masks to be compulsory for shoppers, including 57% of Tory voters
I thought the fraction was higher than that now, approaching a third or so?
Not if what I saw in Cambridge when I was out shopping on Saturday is anything to go by. Mask use at perhaps 5%, certainly no more than 10%, and quite a lot of those were being worn as completely useless necklaces by people who were yakking on the phone, walking along whilst eating stuff, or probably in some cases just plain straightforward sick of breathing through a rag.
I think these polls showing massive support for the things are just examples of people giving virtue signalling answers. In reality then don't mind masks being theoretically imposed upon other people, but have no intention of using them themselves.
Either there's a massive, huge concentration of mask wearers elsewhere in the country or people are telling porkies. My money's on the latter. Opinion polls are not the Voice of God, they don't reveal the exact truth 100% of the time.
Definitely agree opinion polls wont tell the exact truth but just been on tube for first time and mask compliance 85-90%. Nearly all take it off immediately leaving the station.
The original matter in question related to shops, not public transport. We'll see what levels of uptake there are if and when legal compulsion is deployed (most likely very high: a lot of the customers will hate it but the shops can control the flow through their own doors and will be afraid of the consequences of non-compliance.)
In terms of public transport, my recent experience of train travel suggested mask possession at similar levels to that which you describe, actual proper use some distance below.
Jeremy Hunt's constituency newsletter (I am an avid reader - it's a good read, with witty asides) predicts that masks in shops eill be compulsory within the next few days.
And does Hunt have views on whether masks should be worn in pubs and restaurants ?
Less than 10% wear them in the supermarkets I've been to.
So that's a lot of people who might get annoyed - not a vote winner.
And if wearing masks are necessary now then the government is admitting it fucked up massively by neither encouraging them four months ago nor ensuring their supply - again not a vote winner.
60% of voters now want masks to be compulsory for shoppers, including 57% of Tory voters
It isn't because it is not yet the law to make wearing them mandatory as it is on public transport, by the end of the week it likely will be the law and compulsory to wear a facemask while shopping
And High Streets will be even more bolloxed.
Still it means more profits for Amazon.
And good luck getting people to go to pubs and restaurants after they've been told that its not safe.
The reverse, wearing facemasks reduces the spread of Covid making it safer to go shopping, not making facemasks compulsory means it is more sensible to shop via online delivery rather than in store
People will be more afraid and so will go out less.
Whereas there's sod all risk currently going to the shops.
Take a look at where the outbreaks occur - factories, farms, care homes and hospitals. Not shops.
But by your reasoning people will not go to pubs and restaurants because masks aren't worn on those.
There was a graphic, possibly posted here, of a range of behaviours ranked from 1 least risk of transmission to 9 greatest risk. Coming in at 9, absolutely the highest risk, was going to pubs (along with mass events, which are still banned in most places). Too many people in poorly ventilated spaces, too close together and shouting at each other and uninhibited behaviour due to alcohol. If the goal is to control the epidemic, pubs objectively should be closed, at least indoors, while other things that remain closed might actually be allowed. The reason pubs are open is economic particularly concerning employment and possibly also the perception that opening pubs is politically popular. The first point I get, but I'm not sure pubs are actually that popular and if the epidemic takes off again, fingers might get pointed in that direction. Pubs were closing anyway because people are not going to them so much.
What’s the PB pub-going factor like? Have we all been down the pub - or not? I’ve been twice, albeit to the same pub both times!
Opening day, Saturday just gone and yesterday. Going Thursday evening as well to meet some work colleagues.
Good for you, hope you enjoyed it. I did!
Very much, it was quite a relief to be back in the pub, next weekend I'm meeting some friends and we haven't seen each other in person since before lockdown, everyone is looking forwards to it a lot and the pub is hosting a BBQ day which is going to be great.
Fantastic. It’s great to hear these stories. We met friends at the pub last weekend and hosted Sunday lunch yesterday. Really, the best things in life are free or almost free (although I did spend £60 on a rib of beef!)
That rib of beef sounds great. Hoping that the pubs are actually able to turn a profit from this, but it was actually pretty empty yesterday, the same pub is normally pretty full for Sunday lunch. One of my local ones is turning the parking into a temporary structure with more shade and protection from the rain.
It was spectacular. Got it just right (the Salter meat thermometer has been a great addition). The pub I went to on Saturday was busy although it has a 4,000 square foot garden so an attractive place to be!
Are there any stats on positive cases as a percentage of tests at the moment? How much testing is going on in various countries of the EU at present compared to what is going on here? Because if we are actually doing significantly higher levels of testing (I don’t know if we are) then some of the reported numbers in places of the EU are pretty high.
On one level I wonder if the Govt think that numbers might start growing again, and are looking to position the U.K. as “star performers” second time around. Not that I think this is ever going to be very likely as you have to perform very well as a large country to look good.
Jeremy Hunt's constituency newsletter (I am an avid reader - it's a good read, with witty asides) predicts that masks in shops eill be compulsory within the next few days.
And does Hunt have views on whether masks should be worn in pubs and restaurants ?
Less than 10% wear them in the supermarkets I've been to.
So that's a lot of people who might get annoyed - not a vote winner.
And if wearing masks are necessary now then the government is admitting it fucked up massively by neither encouraging them four months ago nor ensuring their supply - again not a vote winner.
60% of voters now want masks to be compulsory for shoppers, including 57% of Tory voters
I thought the fraction was higher than that now, approaching a third or so?
Not if what I saw in Cambridge when I was out shopping on Saturday is anything to go by. Mask use at perhaps 5%, certainly no more than 10%, and quite a lot of those were being worn as completely useless necklaces by people who were yakking on the phone, walking along whilst eating stuff, or probably in some cases just plain straightforward sick of breathing through a rag.
I think these polls showing massive support for the things are just examples of people giving virtue signalling answers. In reality then don't mind masks being theoretically imposed upon other people, but have no intention of using them themselves.
Either there's a massive, huge concentration of mask wearers elsewhere in the country or people are telling porkies. My money's on the latter. Opinion polls are not the Voice of God, they don't reveal the exact truth 100% of the time.
Definitely agree opinion polls wont tell the exact truth but just been on tube for first time and mask compliance 85-90%. Nearly all take it off immediately leaving the station.
The original matter in question related to shops, not public transport. We'll see what levels of uptake there are if and when legal compulsion is deployed (most likely very high: a lot of the customers will hate it but the shops can control the flow through their own doors and will be afraid of the consequences of non-compliance.)
In terms of public transport, my recent experience of train travel suggested mask possession at similar levels to that which you describe, actual proper use some distance below.
The opinion poll discussed asked about usage in public. If I was answering I would consider using a mask on public transport as in public unless specifically directed otherwise. Yes it will be much lower in shops than in public generally.
Jeremy Hunt's constituency newsletter (I am an avid reader - it's a good read, with witty asides) predicts that masks in shops eill be compulsory within the next few days.
And does Hunt have views on whether masks should be worn in pubs and restaurants ?
Less than 10% wear them in the supermarkets I've been to.
So that's a lot of people who might get annoyed - not a vote winner.
And if wearing masks are necessary now then the government is admitting it fucked up massively by neither encouraging them four months ago nor ensuring their supply - again not a vote winner.
60% of voters now want masks to be compulsory for shoppers, including 57% of Tory voters
Hmm I think people don't wear them because others don't. If there's a degree of compulsion that changes the equation.
They might wear them but its not going to be a vote winner.
They'll also want to know why they need to wear them now when the government has told them for four months that they don't.
And they'll want to know why politicians don't bother wearing them while telling others to do so.
It's not that difficult because the government can say it's part of moving away from 2m social distancing to 1m social distancing and allowing larger groups of people to be in the same place (no more queueing, groups of 20 people meeting outdoors etc...). Honestly, if the government links mask wearing to no longer having to queue up to shop then it will be a very big vote winner.
I disagree but we'll see.
I suspect that as in most changes the government will be blamed for negative effects while getting little appreciation for positive effects.
But there are few to no negative effects from mask wearing.
Speaking as pro-mask semi-extremist, they can be uncomfortable & inconvenient. Especially if you wear glasses and/or hat, and/or your mask is thick (such as with most N95s).
On humid/rainy days (common in Seattle) my glasses fog up, sometimes take them off in stores, then have to make sure I don't lose/misplace them. When outside and nobody else around slip mask down. ready to put it back on if someone approaches my personal space - an admittedly elastic, generally expansive concept akin to the Greater East Cornwall Co-Prosperity Sphere.
Inconvenience aside, truly believe masking is the way to go right now & likely for rest of 2020. Also that best way for me personally to help the cause, is not by frothing at the mouth (such as calling good PBers "fucking idiots") but instead by by sterling personal example - by wearing the damn thing just about anytime I stumble out the door.
What’s the PB pub-going factor like? Have we all been down the pub - or not? I’ve been twice, albeit to the same pub both times!
Just back from the excellent Station House in Acton. Early evening on a Monday - and it was very busy. It appears to have been doing a roaring trade since reopening. On the other hand, went to Richmond last week - and it was eerily quiet like so much of central London.
In non-mask news, has anyone read the piece about the central London economy in the Evening Standard (available without paywall via the website?)
Rebalancing away from London is now well in progress, although not necessarily in the manner that the Government may have envisaged. It's completely screwed. Very little commuter traffic, almost no foreign visitors and only limited prospects for a revival. Most offices empty, public transport still operating at a fraction of pre-pandemic levels, all the theatres and nightclubs still forcibly shuttered of course, and predictions of 50,000 job losses in the West End alone.
It's no wonder that Johnson is now trying to cajole commuters into going back into work, but he won't succeed (a recent survey apparently states that 88% of commuters polled said they would not be comfortable returning to public transport this year.) With time and support the tourist business and much of the wider retail, hospitality and entertainment sectors can be slowly nursed back to health, but much of that office space will stand empty forever once the current leases on it expire. The activity that it used to support has all moved into the leafier suburbs and the Home Counties. It's done. Finished.
As I have been saying for a week. This is an approaching catastrophe which won't, in the end, affect just central London.
Jeremy Hunt's constituency newsletter (I am an avid reader - it's a good read, with witty asides) predicts that masks in shops eill be compulsory within the next few days.
And does Hunt have views on whether masks should be worn in pubs and restaurants ?
Less than 10% wear them in the supermarkets I've been to.
So that's a lot of people who might get annoyed - not a vote winner.
And if wearing masks are necessary now then the government is admitting it fucked up massively by neither encouraging them four months ago nor ensuring their supply - again not a vote winner.
60% of voters now want masks to be compulsory for shoppers, including 57% of Tory voters
It isn't because it is not yet the law to make wearing them mandatory as it is on public transport, by the end of the week it likely will be the law and compulsory to wear a facemask while shopping
And High Streets will be even more bolloxed.
Still it means more profits for Amazon.
And good luck getting people to go to pubs and restaurants after they've been told that its not safe.
The reverse, wearing facemasks reduces the spread of Covid making it safer to go shopping, not making facemasks compulsory means it is more sensible to shop via online delivery rather than in store
People will be more afraid and so will go out less.
Whereas there's sod all risk currently going to the shops.
Take a look at where the outbreaks occur - factories, farms, care homes and hospitals. Not shops.
But by your reasoning people will not go to pubs and restaurants because masks aren't worn on those.
There was a graphic, possibly posted here, of a range of behaviours ranked from 1 least risk of transmission to 9 greatest risk. Coming in at 9, absolutely the highest risk, was going to pubs (along with mass events, which are still banned in most places). Too many people in poorly ventilated spaces, too close together and shouting at each other and uninhibited behaviour due to alcohol. If the goal is to control the epidemic, pubs objectively should be closed, at least indoors, while other things that remain closed might actually be allowed. The reason pubs are open is economic particularly concerning employment and possibly also the perception that opening pubs is politically popular. The first point I get, but I'm not sure pubs are actually that popular and if the epidemic takes off again, fingers might get pointed in that direction. Pubs were closing anyway because people are not going to them so much.
nope, there was evidence the sector was turning the corner, with more pubs opening than closing in year ending March 2019. This trend had been expected to continue.
What’s the PB pub-going factor like? Have we all been down the pub - or not? I’ve been twice, albeit to the same pub both times!
Just back from the excellent Station House in Acton. Early evening on a Monday - and it was very busy. It appears to have been doing a roaring trade since reopening. On the other hand, went to Richmond last week - and it was eerily quiet like so much of central London.
Bear in mind that a large number of pubs in southwest London aren’t open yet. Young’s don’t open until next Monday.
Jeremy Hunt's constituency newsletter (I am an avid reader - it's a good read, with witty asides) predicts that masks in shops eill be compulsory within the next few days.
And does Hunt have views on whether masks should be worn in pubs and restaurants ?
Less than 10% wear them in the supermarkets I've been to.
So that's a lot of people who might get annoyed - not a vote winner.
And if wearing masks are necessary now then the government is admitting it fucked up massively by neither encouraging them four months ago nor ensuring their supply - again not a vote winner.
60% of voters now want masks to be compulsory for shoppers, including 57% of Tory voters
It isn't because it is not yet the law to make wearing them mandatory as it is on public transport, by the end of the week it likely will be the law and compulsory to wear a facemask while shopping
And High Streets will be even more bolloxed.
Still it means more profits for Amazon.
And good luck getting people to go to pubs and restaurants after they've been told that its not safe.
The reverse, wearing facemasks reduces the spread of Covid making it safer to go shopping, not making facemasks compulsory means it is more sensible to shop via online delivery rather than in store
People will be more afraid and so will go out less.
Whereas there's sod all risk currently going to the shops.
Take a look at where the outbreaks occur - factories, farms, care homes and hospitals. Not shops.
But by your reasoning people will not go to pubs and restaurants because masks aren't worn on those.
There was a graphic, possibly posted here, of a range of behaviours ranked from 1 least risk of transmission to 9 greatest risk. Coming in at 9, absolutely the highest risk, was going to pubs (along with mass events, which are still banned in most places). Too many people in poorly ventilated spaces, too close together and shouting at each other and uninhibited behaviour due to alcohol. If the goal is to control the epidemic, pubs objectively should be closed, at least indoors, while other things that remain closed might actually be allowed. The reason pubs are open is economic particularly concerning employment and possibly also the perception that opening pubs is politically popular. The first point I get, but I'm not sure pubs are actually that popular and if the epidemic takes off again, fingers might get pointed in that direction. Pubs were closing anyway because people are not going to them so much.
Clarification, shite pubs that had failed to diversify or modernise and offer good food were closing. Many thousands of fantastic pubs usually but certainly not exclusively in the south of England, which offer brilliant food, rooms and a female-friendly atmosphere were thriving. But, we’ve been here before on PB.
I think perhaps the main problem for many pubs in the lack of “spontaneous” passing trade. When you potentially have to plan every trip, arrange to meet people in advance etc etc, it’s just a big effort that many can’t be bothered with. Especially having got used to months at home not going out.
Jeremy Hunt's constituency newsletter (I am an avid reader - it's a good read, with witty asides) predicts that masks in shops eill be compulsory within the next few days.
And does Hunt have views on whether masks should be worn in pubs and restaurants ?
Less than 10% wear them in the supermarkets I've been to.
So that's a lot of people who might get annoyed - not a vote winner.
And if wearing masks are necessary now then the government is admitting it fucked up massively by neither encouraging them four months ago nor ensuring their supply - again not a vote winner.
60% of voters now want masks to be compulsory for shoppers, including 57% of Tory voters
It isn't because it is not yet the law to make wearing them mandatory as it is on public transport, by the end of the week it likely will be the law and compulsory to wear a facemask while shopping
And High Streets will be even more bolloxed.
Still it means more profits for Amazon.
And good luck getting people to go to pubs and restaurants after they've been told that its not safe.
The reverse, wearing facemasks reduces the spread of Covid making it safer to go shopping, not making facemasks compulsory means it is more sensible to shop via online delivery rather than in store
People will be more afraid and so will go out less.
Whereas there's sod all risk currently going to the shops.
Take a look at where the outbreaks occur - factories, farms, care homes and hospitals. Not shops.
But by your reasoning people will not go to pubs and restaurants because masks aren't worn on those.
There was a graphic, possibly posted here, of a range of behaviours ranked from 1 least risk of transmission to 9 greatest risk. Coming in at 9, absolutely the highest risk, was going to pubs (along with mass events, which are still banned in most places). Too many people in poorly ventilated spaces, too close together and shouting at each other and uninhibited behaviour due to alcohol. If the goal is to control the epidemic, pubs objectively should be closed, at least indoors, while other things that remain closed might actually be allowed. The reason pubs are open is economic particularly concerning employment and possibly also the perception that opening pubs is politically popular. The first point I get, but I'm not sure pubs are actually that popular and if the epidemic takes off again, fingers might get pointed in that direction. Pubs were closing anyway because people are not going to them so much.
nope, there was evidence the sector was turning the corner, with more pubs opening than closing in year ending March 2019. This trend had been expected to continue.
Jeremy Hunt's constituency newsletter (I am an avid reader - it's a good read, with witty asides) predicts that masks in shops eill be compulsory within the next few days.
And does Hunt have views on whether masks should be worn in pubs and restaurants ?
Less than 10% wear them in the supermarkets I've been to.
So that's a lot of people who might get annoyed - not a vote winner.
And if wearing masks are necessary now then the government is admitting it fucked up massively by neither encouraging them four months ago nor ensuring their supply - again not a vote winner.
60% of voters now want masks to be compulsory for shoppers, including 57% of Tory voters
It isn't because it is not yet the law to make wearing them mandatory as it is on public transport, by the end of the week it likely will be the law and compulsory to wear a facemask while shopping
And High Streets will be even more bolloxed.
Still it means more profits for Amazon.
And good luck getting people to go to pubs and restaurants after they've been told that its not safe.
The reverse, wearing facemasks reduces the spread of Covid making it safer to go shopping, not making facemasks compulsory means it is more sensible to shop via online delivery rather than in store
People will be more afraid and so will go out less.
Whereas there's sod all risk currently going to the shops.
Take a look at where the outbreaks occur - factories, farms, care homes and hospitals. Not shops.
But by your reasoning people will not go to pubs and restaurants because masks aren't worn on those.
There was a graphic, possibly posted here, of a range of behaviours ranked from 1 least risk of transmission to 9 greatest risk. Coming in at 9, absolutely the highest risk, was going to pubs (along with mass events, which are still banned in most places). Too many people in poorly ventilated spaces, too close together and shouting at each other and uninhibited behaviour due to alcohol. If the goal is to control the epidemic, pubs objectively should be closed, at least indoors, while other things that remain closed might actually be allowed. The reason pubs are open is economic particularly concerning employment and possibly also the perception that opening pubs is politically popular. The first point I get, but I'm not sure pubs are actually that popular and if the epidemic takes off again, fingers might get pointed in that direction. Pubs were closing anyway because people are not going to them so much.
nope, there was evidence the sector was turning the corner, with more pubs opening than closing in year ending March 2019. This trend had been expected to continue.
Lots of utter garbage posted on PB about pubs from people who seemingly never visit them.
Problem with a lot of polling as well. Huge proportion of polling about people visiting pubs etc , and many other activities, must be picking up people who never do it anyway.
I think perhaps the main problem for many pubs in the lack of “spontaneous” passing trade. When you potentially have to plan every trip, arrange to meet people in advance etc etc, it’s just a big effort that many can’t be bothered with. Especially having got used to months at home not going out.
You can just turn up. I’m not sure where this “you have to book” idea came from. It’s not true.
I think perhaps the main problem for many pubs in the lack of “spontaneous” passing trade. When you potentially have to plan every trip, arrange to meet people in advance etc etc, it’s just a big effort that many can’t be bothered with. Especially having got used to months at home not going out.
This is almost every pub in central London (and to a lesser extent, Brum, Manc, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Leeds, Bristol, Belfast). As things stand they are all doomed.
The damage will be incalculable, and the cascade effect is, in prospect, terrifying. Read across for the USA, France, Spain, Italy....
I think perhaps the main problem for many pubs in the lack of “spontaneous” passing trade. When you potentially have to plan every trip, arrange to meet people in advance etc etc, it’s just a big effort that many can’t be bothered with. Especially having got used to months at home not going out.
You can just turn up. I’m not sure where this “you have to book” idea came from. It’s not true.
A lot of people don’t know. And some many pubs, particularly those without outside areas, are at least “encouraging” people to book.
Jeremy Hunt's constituency newsletter (I am an avid reader - it's a good read, with witty asides) predicts that masks in shops eill be compulsory within the next few days.
And does Hunt have views on whether masks should be worn in pubs and restaurants ?
Less than 10% wear them in the supermarkets I've been to.
So that's a lot of people who might get annoyed - not a vote winner.
And if wearing masks are necessary now then the government is admitting it fucked up massively by neither encouraging them four months ago nor ensuring their supply - again not a vote winner.
60% of voters now want masks to be compulsory for shoppers, including 57% of Tory voters
It isn't because it is not yet the law to make wearing them mandatory as it is on public transport, by the end of the week it likely will be the law and compulsory to wear a facemask while shopping
And High Streets will be even more bolloxed.
Still it means more profits for Amazon.
And good luck getting people to go to pubs and restaurants after they've been told that its not safe.
The reverse, wearing facemasks reduces the spread of Covid making it safer to go shopping, not making facemasks compulsory means it is more sensible to shop via online delivery rather than in store
People will be more afraid and so will go out less.
Whereas there's sod all risk currently going to the shops.
Take a look at where the outbreaks occur - factories, farms, care homes and hospitals. Not shops.
But by your reasoning people will not go to pubs and restaurants because masks aren't worn on those.
There was a graphic, possibly posted here, of a range of behaviours ranked from 1 least risk of transmission to 9 greatest risk. Coming in at 9, absolutely the highest risk, was going to pubs (along with mass events, which are still banned in most places). Too many people in poorly ventilated spaces, too close together and shouting at each other and uninhibited behaviour due to alcohol. If the goal is to control the epidemic, pubs objectively should be closed, at least indoors, while other things that remain closed might actually be allowed. The reason pubs are open is economic particularly concerning employment and possibly also the perception that opening pubs is politically popular. The first point I get, but I'm not sure pubs are actually that popular and if the epidemic takes off again, fingers might get pointed in that direction. Pubs were closing anyway because people are not going to them so much.
The post-Covid pub is a rather different experience to the pre-Covid pub. My work colleague was recounting the details of his trip to the local Wetherspoons last Friday - his party was by all accounts well-behaved, but a couple of them still got their wrists slapped for standing up whilst drinking rather than being sat down, even though they weren't being loud or silly and weren't particularly close to anyone else. Time limited slots should help to reduce serious inebriation, and the change will also be less of a shock for those establishments which, to be blunt, are already used to catering primarily for families and people with some modicum of restraint, rather than the pissheads.
So, whilst I agree that pubs aren't quite as popular as they used to be (we've lost three in town in recent years,) the trade is still there, and at least some of them do appear to be making as much of an effort as the restaurants to make visitors feel safer.
We clearly need to do some clever thinking about central London.
The government needs to think along the lines of a 2:3 in:home model with incentives for those to eat out on the days they are in the office. It could be the making of London life - accept the 9-5 slog is never coming back and make days in town better, lunches with friends, networking drinks etc.
The news from Wales today stipulates "three layer" face coverings. Does anyone know if that is the rule in England or does any old rag suffice?
Any old rag suffices. Start embellishing it and insisting on quality and people have to start paying money. Which really will create inconvenience and unpopularity. And a far higher standard for enforcement. And I suspect there will start being shortages as well.
As it is, it’s not so bad if you can just chuck on a scarf.
It’s noted that in many places in the EU the mandatory rules on masks were (initially at least) accompanied by them being given away on entry.
Are there any stats on positive cases as a percentage of tests at the moment? How much testing is going on in various countries of the EU at present compared to what is going on here? Because if we are actually doing significantly higher levels of testing (I don’t know if we are) then some of the reported numbers in places of the EU are pretty high.
On one level I wonder if the Govt think that numbers might start growing again, and are looking to position the U.K. as “star performers” second time around. Not that I think this is ever going to be very likely as you have to perform very well as a large country to look good.
I was thinking the same. Spain and France have added more new cases than the UK on a number of occasions over the last week or so. So if we're testing a lot more then our underlying position looks fairly strong now, it's just about not letting that go into reverse.
Just been to see a very very old friend who is now dying of a covid-related disease.
Desperately sad. Early 50s. Teen kids.
Wear a damn mask when you shop. How hard is that?
Thanks LG. I hate wearing a mask but promise to try harder in future.
Btw, we recently compared estimates of where the final US death tally ends. You went for 175,000; I suggested 200,000. It's currently 138,000. Sadly it looks like even my figure may be on the low side.
That clown in the White House has a lot to answer for.
I think perhaps the main problem for many pubs in the lack of “spontaneous” passing trade. When you potentially have to plan every trip, arrange to meet people in advance etc etc, it’s just a big effort that many can’t be bothered with. Especially having got used to months at home not going out.
You can just turn up. I’m not sure where this “you have to book” idea came from. It’s not true.
A lot of people don’t know. And some many pubs, particularly those without outside areas, are at least “encouraging” people to book.
I think perhaps the main problem for many pubs in the lack of “spontaneous” passing trade. When you potentially have to plan every trip, arrange to meet people in advance etc etc, it’s just a big effort that many can’t be bothered with. Especially having got used to months at home not going out.
You can just turn up. I’m not sure where this “you have to book” idea came from. It’s not true.
A lot of people don’t know. And some many pubs, particularly those without outside areas, are at least “encouraging” people to book.
Bonkers communication breakdown again in that case.
"Federal prosecutors told a judge Monday that Ghislaine Maxwell . . . tried to flee apprehension from FBI agents right before they arrested her earlier this month.
Prosecutors revealed Maxwell’s effort as they argued that she is likely to flee the United States if granted bail of $5 million, or even more.
Prosecutors cited the millions of dollars that Maxwell has held in “dozens” of overseas bank accounts, her citizenship in France, and the fact that she tried to hide from FBI agents who arrested her in a $1 million New Hampshire hideaway purchased under under the name of a legal entity to hide the actual owner.
“There will be no trial for the victims if the defendant is afforded the opportunity to flee the jurisdiction, and there is every reason to think that is exactly what she will do if she is released,” prosecutors wrote in a filing in U.S. District Court in Manhattan in advance of Maxwell’s detention hearing there on Tuesday. . . .
Maxwell, 58, has asked a judge to release her on a $5 million personal recognizance bond, to be secured by a half-dozen signatories and more than $3 million in property. . . .
In their filing Monday, prosecutors wrote. . .
“Through a window, the agents saw the defendant ignore the direction to open the door and, instead, try to flee to another room in the house, quickly shutting a door behind her.”
The filing added, “Agents were ultimately forced to breach the door in order to enter the house to arrest the defendant, who was found in an interior room in the house.”
When FBI agents searched the house, “they also noticed a cell phone wrapped in tin foil on top of a desk, a seemingly misguided effort to evade detection, not by the press or public, which of course would have no ability to trace her phone or intercept her communications, but by law enforcement.” ...
> bit re: France is interesting because of high likelihood French courts would refuse to extradite her back to US if she fled there (as in Mastro fraud case).
Number of cases have plateaued. R is now about 1. Slightly above 1 in London. Incidence per million is still low overall though there are several hotspots as highlighted by Malmesbury in his spreadsheet.
Endemic steady state ?
Could be. It's a battle between test, track and trace which is bearing down on it, and relaxing of guidelines which is causing it to rise somewhat. The incidence is low so it is currently manageable but could take off again.
The case numbers are still falling - remember the distortion caused by going in heavy with Pillar 2 tests.
Are there any stats on positive cases as a percentage of tests at the moment? How much testing is going on in various countries of the EU at present compared to what is going on here? Because if we are actually doing significantly higher levels of testing (I don’t know if we are) then some of the reported numbers in places of the EU are pretty high.
On one level I wonder if the Govt think that numbers might start growing again, and are looking to position the U.K. as “star performers” second time around. Not that I think this is ever going to be very likely as you have to perform very well as a large country to look good.
I was thinking the same. Spain and France have added more new cases than the UK on a number of occasions over the last week or so. So if we're testing a lot more then our underlying position looks fairly strong now, it's just about not letting that go into reverse.
Jeremy Hunt's constituency newsletter (I am an avid reader - it's a good read, with witty asides) predicts that masks in shops eill be compulsory within the next few days.
And does Hunt have views on whether masks should be worn in pubs and restaurants ?
Less than 10% wear them in the supermarkets I've been to.
So that's a lot of people who might get annoyed - not a vote winner.
And if wearing masks are necessary now then the government is admitting it fucked up massively by neither encouraging them four months ago nor ensuring their supply - again not a vote winner.
60% of voters now want masks to be compulsory for shoppers, including 57% of Tory voters
It isn't because it is not yet the law to make wearing them mandatory as it is on public transport, by the end of the week it likely will be the law and compulsory to wear a facemask while shopping
And High Streets will be even more bolloxed.
Still it means more profits for Amazon.
And good luck getting people to go to pubs and restaurants after they've been told that its not safe.
The reverse, wearing facemasks reduces the spread of Covid making it safer to go shopping, not making facemasks compulsory means it is more sensible to shop via online delivery rather than in store
People will be more afraid and so will go out less.
Whereas there's sod all risk currently going to the shops.
Take a look at where the outbreaks occur - factories, farms, care homes and hospitals. Not shops.
But by your reasoning people will not go to pubs and restaurants because masks aren't worn on those.
There was a graphic, possibly posted here, of a range of behaviours ranked from 1 least risk of transmission to 9 greatest risk. Coming in at 9, absolutely the highest risk, was going to pubs (along with mass events, which are still banned in most places). Too many people in poorly ventilated spaces, too close together and shouting at each other and uninhibited behaviour due to alcohol. If the goal is to control the epidemic, pubs objectively should be closed, at least indoors, while other things that remain closed might actually be allowed. The reason pubs are open is economic particularly concerning employment and possibly also the perception that opening pubs is politically popular. The first point I get, but I'm not sure pubs are actually that popular and if the epidemic takes off again, fingers might get pointed in that direction. Pubs were closing anyway because people are not going to them so much.
Just as a point on this, I don't think that graphic is as relevant in the UK as it's made out to be. It's been going around for a couple of months now, and it's a good thing to use as a baseline, but it's based on American activities and venues and it won't take into account any mitigation taken by the venues as directed by UK guidelines.
Jeremy Hunt's constituency newsletter (I am an avid reader - it's a good read, with witty asides) predicts that masks in shops eill be compulsory within the next few days.
And does Hunt have views on whether masks should be worn in pubs and restaurants ?
Less than 10% wear them in the supermarkets I've been to.
So that's a lot of people who might get annoyed - not a vote winner.
And if wearing masks are necessary now then the government is admitting it fucked up massively by neither encouraging them four months ago nor ensuring their supply - again not a vote winner.
60% of voters now want masks to be compulsory for shoppers, including 57% of Tory voters
It isn't because it is not yet the law to make wearing them mandatory as it is on public transport, by the end of the week it likely will be the law and compulsory to wear a facemask while shopping
And High Streets will be even more bolloxed.
Still it means more profits for Amazon.
And good luck getting people to go to pubs and restaurants after they've been told that its not safe.
The reverse, wearing facemasks reduces the spread of Covid making it safer to go shopping, not making facemasks compulsory means it is more sensible to shop via online delivery rather than in store
People will be more afraid and so will go out less.
Whereas there's sod all risk currently going to the shops.
Take a look at where the outbreaks occur - factories, farms, care homes and hospitals. Not shops.
But by your reasoning people will not go to pubs and restaurants because masks aren't worn on those.
There was a graphic, possibly posted here, of a range of behaviours ranked from 1 least risk of transmission to 9 greatest risk. Coming in at 9, absolutely the highest risk, was going to pubs (along with mass events, which are still banned in most places). Too many people in poorly ventilated spaces, too close together and shouting at each other and uninhibited behaviour due to alcohol. If the goal is to control the epidemic, pubs objectively should be closed, at least indoors, while other things that remain closed might actually be allowed. The reason pubs are open is economic particularly concerning employment and possibly also the perception that opening pubs is politically popular. The first point I get, but I'm not sure pubs are actually that popular and if the epidemic takes off again, fingers might get pointed in that direction. Pubs were closing anyway because people are not going to them so much.
nope, there was evidence the sector was turning the corner, with more pubs opening than closing in year ending March 2019. This trend had been expected to continue.
Lots of utter garbage posted on PB about pubs from people who seemingly never visit them.
Half of the population rarely or never go to the pub, 17% go once a month, leaving about a third of the population that are regulars. When there is no epidemic.
I think perhaps the main problem for many pubs in the lack of “spontaneous” passing trade. When you potentially have to plan every trip, arrange to meet people in advance etc etc, it’s just a big effort that many can’t be bothered with. Especially having got used to months at home not going out.
This is almost every pub in central London (and to a lesser extent, Brum, Manc, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Leeds, Bristol, Belfast). As things stand they are all doomed.
The damage will be incalculable, and the cascade effect is, in prospect, terrifying. Read across for the USA, France, Spain, Italy...
A natural consequence of what demand there is for these leisure activities (and, based on my admittedly limited observations so far, quite a lot still exists) being concentrated in the places where people live now, rather than where they used to work or go for days out in February.
Logically, the pubs, cafes and restaurants with the best chance of survival are those which (a) obtain most of their custom from locals, arriving on foot or via short car journeys, most of whom will be regular or semi-regular patrons, and (b) have plenty of space to cope with the social distancing problem, or are able to compensate adequately for the lack thereof through takeaway sales.
Old fashioned pubs with no gardens in city centres will only survive if they belong to chains or big breweries, and the ultimate owners are willing to mothball them or run them at a loss whilst they wait for this horror to play out.
"Revealed: The true scale of London's economic meltdown as capital faces crisis not seen for generations An Evening Standard investigation: Saving Central London
• 50,000 West End jobs at risk • 88% of people are uncomfortable using public transport • 96% drop in foreign bookings to the UK for July • 11 London branches of Pret shut down • Just 7,000 out of 120,000 back at work in Canary Wharf"
In non-mask news, has anyone read the piece about the central London economy in the Evening Standard (available without paywall via the website?)
It's no wonder that Johnson is now trying to cajole commuters into going back into work, but he won't succeed (a recent survey apparently states that 88% of commuters polled said they would not be comfortable returning to public transport this year.) With time and support the tourist business and much of the wider retail, hospitality and entertainment sectors can be slowly nursed back to health, but much of that office space will stand empty forever once the current leases on it expire. The activity that it used to support has all moved into the leafier suburbs and the Home Counties. It's done. Finished.
The commercial property sector is already panicking and as an aside Councils with investment portfolios based around retail centres and commercial offices are also feeling very exposed.
There's also the question of the transport providers who have seen the not insignificant income stream of fare income almost completely disappear.
As an aside, apart from those who see commuting as a chance to enjoy some "personal space" away from the partner and the children (travel on the District Line in rush hour and see how much "personal space" you get), I suspect WAH will get a new lease of life once the schools fully re-open.
Boris Johnson would be better trying to understand this new way of working - after all, he's a home worker himself - rather than trying to "force" people back into old ways.
Just been to see a very very old friend who is now dying of a covid-related disease.
Desperately sad. Early 50s. Teen kids.
Wear a damn mask when you shop. How hard is that?
Thanks LG. I hate wearing a mask but promise to try harder in future.
Btw, we recently compared estimates of where the final US death tally ends. You went for 175,000; I suggested 200,000. It's currently 138,000. Sadly it looks like even my figure may be on the low side.
That clown in the White House has a lot to answer for.
To be fair to Trump (!!!) there is no perfect response to this if you're the leader of a normal large western country. The East Asian countries have 1. a memory of SARS, 2. a rule obeying populace, 3. a culture of mask wearing
None of these apply in big western nations, consequently, all have done badly, with the possible exception of Germany (but we aren't even halfway through this horror, yet, so who knows)
I am more pessimistic now, about covid and its medical/economic consequences, than I have ever been. And boy, have I been pessimistic before.
Absent a vaccine, I think we are FUCKED with a capital F plus UCKED
The news from Wales today stipulates "three layer" face coverings. Does anyone know if that is the rule in England or does any old rag suffice?
Given the challenge of merely enforcing wearing anything in the first place, it seems unlikely you're going to get done in a spot check for only wearing two layers.
I think perhaps the main problem for many pubs in the lack of “spontaneous” passing trade. When you potentially have to plan every trip, arrange to meet people in advance etc etc, it’s just a big effort that many can’t be bothered with. Especially having got used to months at home not going out.
You can just turn up. I’m not sure where this “you have to book” idea came from. It’s not true.
So, where I am, pubs started down this route, especially on the first night.
Within the weekend, they'd all dropped it. You may book, and that ensures a table.
I've rocked up when its been open. But I also can see it closing its doors again - as alex states, there's no spontaneous trade.
Just been to see a very very old friend who is now dying of a covid-related disease.
Desperately sad. Early 50s. Teen kids.
Wear a damn mask when you shop. How hard is that?
Thanks LG. I hate wearing a mask but promise to try harder in future.
Btw, we recently compared estimates of where the final US death tally ends. You went for 175,000; I suggested 200,000. It's currently 138,000. Sadly it looks like even my figure may be on the low side.
That clown in the White House has a lot to answer for.
To be fair to Trump (!!!) there is no perfect response to this if you're the leader of a normal large western country. The East Asian countries have 1. a memory of SARS, 2. a rule obeying populace, 3. a culture of mask wearing
None of these apply in big western nations, consequently, all have done badly, with the possible exception of Germany (but we aren't even halfway through this horror, yet, so who knows)
I am more pessimistic now, about covid and its medical/economic consequences, than I have ever been. And boy, have I been pessimistic before.
Absent a vaccine, I think we are FUCKED with a capital F plus UCKED
Yes, even Obama acknowledged that this crisis would have tested any Leader. I think however it is safe to say that it didn't really play to DT's strengths.
Are there any stats on positive cases as a percentage of tests at the moment? How much testing is going on in various countries of the EU at present compared to what is going on here? Because if we are actually doing significantly higher levels of testing (I don’t know if we are) then some of the reported numbers in places of the EU are pretty high.
On one level I wonder if the Govt think that numbers might start growing again, and are looking to position the U.K. as “star performers” second time around. Not that I think this is ever going to be very likely as you have to perform very well as a large country to look good.
I was thinking the same. Spain and France have added more new cases than the UK on a number of occasions over the last week or so. So if we're testing a lot more then our underlying position looks fairly strong now, it's just about not letting that go into reverse.
The worrying figure is the 7 day/14 day figures showing a significant increase.
Maybe there’s a fair bit of economy with the actualite in some of the polling on mask usage. I suspect the polling in France/Spain vs U.K. is not totally unrelated to the legal requirements. Obviously because usage will be higher if the law requires it, but also lying about it will be higher as well.
In non-mask news, has anyone read the piece about the central London economy in the Evening Standard (available without paywall via the website?)
Rebalancing away from London is now well in progress, although not necessarily in the manner that the Government may have envisaged. It's completely screwed. Very little commuter traffic, almost no foreign visitors and only limited prospects for a revival. Most offices empty, public transport still operating at a fraction of pre-pandemic levels, all the theatres and nightclubs still forcibly shuttered of course, and predictions of 50,000 job losses in the West End alone.
It's no wonder that Johnson is now trying to cajole commuters into going back into work, but he won't succeed (a recent survey apparently states that 88% of commuters polled said they would not be comfortable returning to public transport this year.) With time and support the tourist business and much of the wider retail, hospitality and entertainment sectors can be slowly nursed back to health, but much of that office space will stand empty forever once the current leases on it expire. The activity that it used to support has all moved into the leafier suburbs and the Home Counties. It's done. Finished.
As I have been saying for a week. This is an approaching catastrophe which won't, in the end, affect just central London.
It is going to ripple out to every last village
If this continues the only feasible answer if for vastly more of central London to convert surplus building to residential use, a huge drop in property prices and rents and a more balanced city to emerge.
Actually, the thing that got me was how quiet Birmingham city centre has remained. The area I live is bustling - queues at the local cafes etc and pubs ticking over. City centre? Just feels dead outside of a few peak shopping hours.
I think perhaps the main problem for many pubs in the lack of “spontaneous” passing trade. When you potentially have to plan every trip, arrange to meet people in advance etc etc, it’s just a big effort that many can’t be bothered with. Especially having got used to months at home not going out.
You can just turn up. I’m not sure where this “you have to book” idea came from. It’s not true.
A lot of people don’t know. And some many pubs, particularly those without outside areas, are at least “encouraging” people to book.
Bonkers communication breakdown again in that case.
Daughter’s pub encourages booking so that she can order food and prepare meals with minimal waste and plan the evening to give customers the best experience. But it’s not mandatory and lots of tourists are turning up unannounced. Takings - based on the first full week of trading have been at ca. 80% of a normal July. But unusual circumstances and the weather has not been great so she’s working hard to get more.
On masks all her customer-facing staff wear visors (or masks if they prefer) and kitchen staff have all the necessary PPE and are scrupulous about cleaning and hygiene.
I don’t feel strongly about mask wearing. Happy to do so and have done so when out in company but have tended to keep as far away from people as possible. It would not stop me going to shops either. Cannot understand the fuss really. It seems to me to be a version of having a handkerchief to hand to stop the spread of germs when coughing, something which people have been really rather lax about doing in the past.
I think perhaps the main problem for many pubs in the lack of “spontaneous” passing trade. When you potentially have to plan every trip, arrange to meet people in advance etc etc, it’s just a big effort that many can’t be bothered with. Especially having got used to months at home not going out.
This is almost every pub in central London (and to a lesser extent, Brum, Manc, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Leeds, Bristol, Belfast). As things stand they are all doomed.
The damage will be incalculable, and the cascade effect is, in prospect, terrifying. Read across for the USA, France, Spain, Italy...
A natural consequence of what demand there is for these leisure activities (and, based on my admittedly limited observations so far, quite a lot still exists) being concentrated in the places where people live now, rather than where they used to work or go for days out in February.
Logically, the pubs, cafes and restaurants with the best chance of survival are those which (a) obtain most of their custom from locals, arriving on foot or via short car journeys, most of whom will be regular or semi-regular patrons, and (b) have plenty of space to cope with the social distancing problem, or are able to compensate adequately for the lack thereof through takeaway sales.
Old fashioned pubs with no gardens in city centres will only survive if they belong to chains or big breweries, and the ultimate owners are willing to mothball them or run them at a loss whilst they wait for this horror to play out.
They will all be mothballed, I reckon.
Our big city high streets will become ghost towns. Why should they not? People are terrified.
I have been telling this to relatives for weeks: Central London is fucked. The amazing thing is, my relatives are as stupid as PBers. They say "Oh well, the economy needed to be rebalanced". They don't seem to understand this is value and capital being simply destroyed, never to return.
Central London is/was a unique eco-system which provided squillions to UK PLC. Foreign tourists, students and others funnelled in cash via property, rates, VAT, consumption, on and on.
Take all of that away and it won't "disperse" to small towns in Dorset or the Isle of Harris.
It will just go. The closest analogy - economically - is a major war with serious urban bombing, which levels structures which cannot be rebuilt.
I think perhaps the main problem for many pubs in the lack of “spontaneous” passing trade. When you potentially have to plan every trip, arrange to meet people in advance etc etc, it’s just a big effort that many can’t be bothered with. Especially having got used to months at home not going out.
This is almost every pub in central London (and to a lesser extent, Brum, Manc, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Leeds, Bristol, Belfast). As things stand they are all doomed.
The damage will be incalculable, and the cascade effect is, in prospect, terrifying. Read across for the USA, France, Spain, Italy....
I never plan to go to a pub or cafe, it's always an on-the-spur-of-the-moment thing. Same for other people I know.
I think perhaps the main problem for many pubs in the lack of “spontaneous” passing trade. When you potentially have to plan every trip, arrange to meet people in advance etc etc, it’s just a big effort that many can’t be bothered with. Especially having got used to months at home not going out.
This is almost every pub in central London (and to a lesser extent, Brum, Manc, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Leeds, Bristol, Belfast). As things stand they are all doomed.
The damage will be incalculable, and the cascade effect is, in prospect, terrifying. Read across for the USA, France, Spain, Italy....
I never plan to go to a pub or cafe, it's always an on-the-spur-of-the-moment thing. Same for other people I know.
Are there any stats on positive cases as a percentage of tests at the moment? How much testing is going on in various countries of the EU at present compared to what is going on here? Because if we are actually doing significantly higher levels of testing (I don’t know if we are) then some of the reported numbers in places of the EU are pretty high.
On one level I wonder if the Govt think that numbers might start growing again, and are looking to position the U.K. as “star performers” second time around. Not that I think this is ever going to be very likely as you have to perform very well as a large country to look good.
I was thinking the same. Spain and France have added more new cases than the UK on a number of occasions over the last week or so. So if we're testing a lot more then our underlying position looks fairly strong now, it's just about not letting that go into reverse.
"The amazing thing is, my relatives are as stupid as PBers."
Believe that's actionable - certainly your kinfolk well-advised to seek legal advice!
What do you think this same process will do to America?
Cities like NYC, Chicago and LA were already losing population BEFORE Covid. Now that process will greatly accelerate. NYC is likely to face an historic property bust. Rich people will flee. The Big Apple will fall.
Ergo, big Democratic states will depopulate and big Republican states (eg Texas) will benefit. Intriguing.
Just been to see a very very old friend who is now dying of a covid-related disease.
Desperately sad. Early 50s. Teen kids.
Wear a damn mask when you shop. How hard is that?
Thanks LG. I hate wearing a mask but promise to try harder in future.
Btw, we recently compared estimates of where the final US death tally ends. You went for 175,000; I suggested 200,000. It's currently 138,000. Sadly it looks like even my figure may be on the low side.
That clown in the White House has a lot to answer for.
To be fair to Trump (!!!) there is no perfect response to this if you're the leader of a normal large western country. The East Asian countries have 1. a memory of SARS, 2. a rule obeying populace, 3. a culture of mask wearing
None of these apply in big western nations, consequently, all have done badly, with the possible exception of Germany (but we aren't even halfway through this horror, yet, so who knows)
I am more pessimistic now, about covid and its medical/economic consequences, than I have ever been. And boy, have I been pessimistic before.
Absent a vaccine, I think we are FUCKED with a capital F plus UCKED
I think if that is the scenario for the foreseeable future sans vaccine then social democracy will be the dominant governing force across most of the West for decades given the resultant high unemployment and need for high state spending to support the economy and health services. The left right arguments will be over the level of tax paid to fund it and over cultural issues and immigration and law and order
I think perhaps the main problem for many pubs in the lack of “spontaneous” passing trade. When you potentially have to plan every trip, arrange to meet people in advance etc etc, it’s just a big effort that many can’t be bothered with. Especially having got used to months at home not going out.
This is almost every pub in central London (and to a lesser extent, Brum, Manc, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Leeds, Bristol, Belfast). As things stand they are all doomed.
The damage will be incalculable, and the cascade effect is, in prospect, terrifying. Read across for the USA, France, Spain, Italy....
I never plan to go to a pub or cafe, it's always an on-the-spur-of-the-moment thing. Same for other people I know.
I'm just going to drink myself to death, now
We go out every evening at 5, I can’t drink very much these days but without the trip out I wouldn’t see anyone other than my wife. We’re all very protective of the owner ensuring people stick to the rules as she will be hit with the fine not us. It’s quieter than before with some of the more elderly 80+ being reluctant to come out. Try and eat out twice a week, easier for me as I do everything, it’s quiet but we’re out early so no idea how busy it is later on. Everything is so much easier in the sunshine
In non-mask news, has anyone read the piece about the central London economy in the Evening Standard (available without paywall via the website?)
Rebalancing away from London is now well in progress, although not necessarily in the manner that the Government may have envisaged. It's completely screwed. Very little commuter traffic, almost no foreign visitors and only limited prospects for a revival. Most offices empty, public transport still operating at a fraction of pre-pandemic levels, all the theatres and nightclubs still forcibly shuttered of course, and predictions of 50,000 job losses in the West End alone.
It's no wonder that Johnson is now trying to cajole commuters into going back into work, but he won't succeed (a recent survey apparently states that 88% of commuters polled said they would not be comfortable returning to public transport this year.) With time and support the tourist business and much of the wider retail, hospitality and entertainment sectors can be slowly nursed back to health, but much of that office space will stand empty forever once the current leases on it expire. The activity that it used to support has all moved into the leafier suburbs and the Home Counties. It's done. Finished.
As I have been saying for a week. This is an approaching catastrophe which won't, in the end, affect just central London.
It is going to ripple out to every last village
If this continues the only feasible answer if for vastly more of central London to convert surplus building to residential use, a huge drop in property prices and rents and a more balanced city to emerge.
It will be interesting to see where the money has moved to. At a random guess, based on the local high street, lunch money is being spent in local cafes. So a direct transfer there.
I reckon that most people are bored with cooking at home while WFH and a relishing going out for lunch.
I think perhaps the main problem for many pubs in the lack of “spontaneous” passing trade. When you potentially have to plan every trip, arrange to meet people in advance etc etc, it’s just a big effort that many can’t be bothered with. Especially having got used to months at home not going out.
This is almost every pub in central London (and to a lesser extent, Brum, Manc, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Leeds, Bristol, Belfast). As things stand they are all doomed.
The damage will be incalculable, and the cascade effect is, in prospect, terrifying. Read across for the USA, France, Spain, Italy...
A natural consequence of what demand there is for these leisure activities (and, based on my admittedly limited observations so far, quite a lot still exists) being concentrated in the places where people live now, rather than where they used to work or go for days out in February.
Logically, the pubs, cafes and restaurants with the best chance of survival are those which (a) obtain most of their custom from locals, arriving on foot or via short car journeys, most of whom will be regular or semi-regular patrons, and (b) have plenty of space to cope with the social distancing problem, or are able to compensate adequately for the lack thereof through takeaway sales.
Old fashioned pubs with no gardens in city centres will only survive if they belong to chains or big breweries, and the ultimate owners are willing to mothball them or run them at a loss whilst they wait for this horror to play out.
They will all be mothballed, I reckon.
Our big city high streets will become ghost towns. Why should they not? People are terrified.
I have been telling this to relatives for weeks: Central London is fucked. The amazing thing is, my relatives are as stupid as PBers. They say "Oh well, the economy needed to be rebalanced". They don't seem to understand this is value and capital being simply destroyed, never to return.
Central London is/was a unique eco-system which provided squillions to UK PLC. Foreign tourists, students and others funnelled in cash via property, rates, VAT, consumption, on and on.
Take all of that away and it won't "disperse" to small towns in Dorset or the Isle of Harris.
It will just go. The closest analogy - economically - is a major war with serious urban bombing, which levels structures which cannot be rebuilt.
Another way of putting this is that you are saying, LadyG, that there is no hope for their futures. We are doomed. The PBers you describe as 'stupid' are not saying that everything will be great, as prosperous as now, or all magically return. Reordering economies happens all the time. It is quite possible that London and the big cities will have to do so. They will. Yes we may all get poorer. we may even get more equal. But we are not all doomed.
The news from Wales today stipulates "three layer" face coverings. Does anyone know if that is the rule in England or does any old rag suffice?
Any old rag suffices. Start embellishing it and insisting on quality and people have to start paying money. Which really will create inconvenience and unpopularity. And a far higher standard for enforcement. And I suspect there will start being shortages as well.
As it is, it’s not so bad if you can just chuck on a scarf.
It’s noted that in many places in the EU the mandatory rules on masks were (initially at least) accompanied by them being given away on entry.
Thanks. Another source of inconsistency across the nations.
Comments
Whereas there's sod all risk currently going to the shops.
Take a look at where the outbreaks occur - factories, farms, care homes and hospitals. Not shops.
But by your reasoning people will not go to pubs and restaurants because masks aren't worn on those.
As nichomar pointed out below studies show 70% of people will get infected if an infected person in their proximity does not wear a mask, only 5% will if an infected person does wear a mask.
Face masks are already compulsory for staff and outpatients and visitors in care homes and hospitals, if you are in a pub you are on one table with limited numbers allowed inside not constantly in others vicinity in shopping aisles
Months of photos of them pulling pints, getting hair cuts and shopping without masks.
So they'll need to explain why masks were not needed for four months but are needed now.
And they'll be asked to apologise for the tens of thousands of lives lost because they told people not to wear masks.
Three days ago you would have told us that masks are not necessary.
And as soon as he doesn't the photos will be taken.
Unless you're saying people have some illogical, hypochondriac fear of masks themselves.
Good to see the working class getting on it
But a significant part of my social circle won't go out. 55+
I can live quite comfortably without shopping offline.
I suspect that as in most changes the government will be blamed for negative effects while getting little appreciation for positive effects.
But I note that Starmer didn't.
Went to shop yesterday - 100% mask wearing
Went to shop again today for the stuff I forgot - only person not complying was a pensioner
I'm by the seaside, which seems to have been invaded by Weegies coming down to the caravan, none of whom know how to socially distance, so I'll keep on mask wearing.
Functional shops - better with masks.
Leisure orientated shops - worse with masks.
There will be winners and losers with either policy.
I also wouldn’t be surprised if a fair number of people are looking at the publishing testing figures and doing the maths, and concluding the the risks of encountering this virus in many areas at present is vanishingly small.
Outdoor settings (especially if you avoid facilities like outdoor playgrounds and gyms, where you have hard surfaces that are frequently handled,) present a very low to negligible risk of transmission. Passing somebody walking the other way on the pavement or wandering around in a park is very safe. We've even had mass gatherings on beaches, to which precisely no subsequent disease spikes have been linked. The relative safety of outdoor settings has been established from relatively early on in this epidemic and has never been seriously questioned.
Thus, "masks everywhere" is quackery, and any administration attempting to impose such a policy by diktat are charlatans.
https://www.tmc.edu/coronavirus-updates/tmc-2-week-projection-using-bed-occupancy-growth/
In terms of public transport, my recent experience of train travel suggested mask possession at similar levels to that which you describe, actual proper use some distance below.
On one level I wonder if the Govt think that numbers might start growing again, and are looking to position the U.K. as “star performers” second time around. Not that I think this is ever going to be very likely as you have to perform very well as a large country to look good.
Desperately sad. Early 50s. Teen kids.
Wear a damn mask when you shop. How hard is that?
On humid/rainy days (common in Seattle) my glasses fog up, sometimes take them off in stores, then have to make sure I don't lose/misplace them. When outside and nobody else around slip mask down. ready to put it back on if someone approaches my personal space - an admittedly elastic, generally expansive concept akin to the Greater East Cornwall Co-Prosperity Sphere.
Inconvenience aside, truly believe masking is the way to go right now & likely for rest of 2020. Also that best way for me personally to help the cause, is not by frothing at the mouth (such as calling good PBers "fucking idiots") but instead by by sterling personal example - by wearing the damn thing just about anytime I stumble out the door.
It is going to ripple out to every last village
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50743853
The damage will be incalculable, and the cascade effect is, in prospect, terrifying. Read across for the USA, France, Spain, Italy....
So, whilst I agree that pubs aren't quite as popular as they used to be (we've lost three in town in recent years,) the trade is still there, and at least some of them do appear to be making as much of an effort as the restaurants to make visitors feel safer.
The government needs to think along the lines of a 2:3 in:home model with incentives for those to eat out on the days they are in the office. It could be the making of London life - accept the 9-5 slog is never coming back and make days in town better, lunches with friends, networking drinks etc.
As it is, it’s not so bad if you can just chuck on a scarf.
It’s noted that in many places in the EU the mandatory rules on masks were (initially at least) accompanied by them being given away on entry.
Btw, we recently compared estimates of where the final US death tally ends. You went for 175,000; I suggested 200,000. It's currently 138,000. Sadly it looks like even my figure may be on the low side.
That clown in the White House has a lot to answer for.
Only 1 out of 7 ask for name and number
"Federal prosecutors told a judge Monday that Ghislaine Maxwell . . . tried to flee apprehension from FBI agents right before they arrested her earlier this month.
Prosecutors revealed Maxwell’s effort as they argued that she is likely to flee the United States if granted bail of $5 million, or even more.
Prosecutors cited the millions of dollars that Maxwell has held in “dozens” of overseas bank accounts, her citizenship in France, and the fact that she tried to hide from FBI agents who arrested her in a $1 million New Hampshire hideaway purchased under under the name of a legal entity to hide the actual owner.
“There will be no trial for the victims if the defendant is afforded the opportunity to flee the jurisdiction, and there is every reason to think that is exactly what she will do if she is released,” prosecutors wrote in a filing in U.S. District Court in Manhattan in advance of Maxwell’s detention hearing there on Tuesday. . . .
Maxwell, 58, has asked a judge to release her on a $5 million personal recognizance bond, to be secured by a half-dozen signatories and more than $3 million in property. . . .
In their filing Monday, prosecutors wrote. . .
“Through a window, the agents saw the defendant ignore the direction to open the door and, instead, try to flee to another room in the house, quickly shutting a door behind her.”
The filing added, “Agents were ultimately forced to breach the door in order to enter the house to arrest the defendant, who was found in an interior room in the house.”
When FBI agents searched the house, “they also noticed a cell phone wrapped in tin foil on top of a desk, a seemingly misguided effort to evade detection, not by the press or public, which of course would have no ability to trace her phone or intercept her communications, but by law enforcement.” ...
> bit re: France is interesting because of high likelihood French courts would refuse to extradite her back to US if she fled there (as in Mastro fraud case).
Deaths are steadily falling as well.
Casos Totales:255.953
Diagnosticados últimas 24 horas: 164 Diagnosticados últimos 7 días: 3933 Diagnosticados últimos 14 días: 6535 Incidencia Acumulada (IA): 13,9 Número reproductivo básico (Rt): 0,9
Fallecidos:28.406
Fallecidos últimos 7 días: 7
Recuperados:18-05-2020150.376
Hospitalizados: 125.751 Hospitalizados últimos 7 días: 146 UCI: 11.716 UCI últimos 7 días: 8
The worrying figure is the 7 day/14 day figures showing a significant increase.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/797411/pub-visit-frequency-in-the-great-britain/
Logically, the pubs, cafes and restaurants with the best chance of survival are those which (a) obtain most of their custom from locals, arriving on foot or via short car journeys, most of whom will be regular or semi-regular patrons, and (b) have plenty of space to cope with the social distancing problem, or are able to compensate adequately for the lack thereof through takeaway sales.
Old fashioned pubs with no gardens in city centres will only survive if they belong to chains or big breweries, and the ultimate owners are willing to mothball them or run them at a loss whilst they wait for this horror to play out.
(Honestly, the papers ought to pay OGH the number of times their columnists plagiarise thread headers on here.)
"Revealed: The true scale of London's economic meltdown as capital faces crisis not seen for generations
An Evening Standard investigation: Saving Central London
• 50,000 West End jobs at risk
• 88% of people are uncomfortable using public transport
• 96% drop in foreign bookings to the UK for July
• 11 London branches of Pret shut down
• Just 7,000 out of 120,000 back at work in Canary Wharf"
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/london-economic-meltdown-revealed-investigation-a4496441.html
There's also the question of the transport providers who have seen the not insignificant income stream of fare income almost completely disappear.
As an aside, apart from those who see commuting as a chance to enjoy some "personal space" away from the partner and the children (travel on the District Line in rush hour and see how much "personal space" you get), I suspect WAH will get a new lease of life once the schools fully re-open.
Boris Johnson would be better trying to understand this new way of working - after all, he's a home worker himself - rather than trying to "force" people back into old ways.
None of these apply in big western nations, consequently, all have done badly, with the possible exception of Germany (but we aren't even halfway through this horror, yet, so who knows)
I am more pessimistic now, about covid and its medical/economic consequences, than I have ever been. And boy, have I been pessimistic before.
Absent a vaccine, I think we are FUCKED with a capital F plus UCKED
Within the weekend, they'd all dropped it. You may book, and that ensures a table.
I've rocked up when its been open. But I also can see it closing its doors again - as alex states, there's no spontaneous trade.
On masks all her customer-facing staff wear visors (or masks if they prefer) and kitchen staff have all the necessary PPE and are scrupulous about cleaning and hygiene.
I don’t feel strongly about mask wearing. Happy to do so and have done so when out in company but have tended to keep as far away from people as possible. It would not stop me going to shops either. Cannot understand the fuss really. It seems to me to be a version of having a handkerchief to hand to stop the spread of germs when coughing, something which people have been really rather lax about doing in the past.
Check out link for VERY detailed view of results down to district level.
Mayor T won his home town Warsaw 2-1 over Duda; did even better, over 70%, in Gdansk & Poznan.
https://biqdata.wyborcza.pl/biqdata/7,159116,26124392,wynik-wyborow-prezydenckich-duda-czy-trzaskowski-sprawdz.html?disableRedirects=true
Our big city high streets will become ghost towns. Why should they not? People are terrified.
I have been telling this to relatives for weeks: Central London is fucked. The amazing thing is, my relatives are as stupid as PBers. They say "Oh well, the economy needed to be rebalanced". They don't seem to understand this is value and capital being simply destroyed, never to return.
Central London is/was a unique eco-system which provided squillions to UK PLC. Foreign tourists, students and others funnelled in cash via property, rates, VAT, consumption, on and on.
Take all of that away and it won't "disperse" to small towns in Dorset or the Isle of Harris.
It will just go. The closest analogy - economically - is a major war with serious urban bombing, which levels structures which cannot be rebuilt.
Believe that's actionable - certainly your kinfolk well-advised to seek legal advice!
The test capacity volume is still increasing - over 300K now. The number of tests used has grown, but much slower.
https://twitter.com/davidfrum/status/1151669588808986624
Cities like NYC, Chicago and LA were already losing population BEFORE Covid. Now that process will greatly accelerate. NYC is likely to face an historic property bust. Rich people will flee. The Big Apple will fall.
Ergo, big Democratic states will depopulate and big Republican states (eg Texas) will benefit. Intriguing.
https://twitter.com/epkaufm/status/1282586669326245890?s=20
I reckon that most people are bored with cooking at home while WFH and a relishing going out for lunch.