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  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    tlg86 said:

    Nigelb said:

    tlg86 said:

    Nigelb said:

    On a note of concern today's positive cases were proportionally high with the details potentially dangerous.

    Now given the pubs opened a week ago that might just be a factor.

    Or maybe not.

    A close watch will have to be made on the testing numbers for the next few days.

    Now if the opening of pubs did have an effect then the government policy of encouraging people to visit them might need to change and would mean that masks in shops is an even more stupid idea.

    On better news new cases in the Bournemouth area remain minimal - further suggesting that outside activities are low risk.

    Still not understanding your argument that masks in shops is a ‘stupid idea’.
    Would you care to explain it ?
    There was a scientist on BBC Breakfast arguing that the government might be shifting towards encouraging the wearing of masks to make nervous people feel safer about shopping.

    Personally I think it will have the opposite affect and will reduce the propensity for people to go out as there are plenty of people who won't want to wear a mask so just won't bother.
    How does your difference of opinion make it a stupid idea ?
    I'm not giving an opinion on whether or not it's a stupid idea. I appreciate that there probably is a decent benefit from people wearing masks. The problem is this. No one is brave enough to tell the plebs that they need to accept that we cannot eradicate it and that we need to get back to "normal".

    For months we have been saying on here that the big challenge is getting people to go back to normal. There are some people who would rather stay at home than go to the pub/football/shops and wear a mask.
    With good government messaging, there would be a great deal more who would be more comfortable about being in indoor public places if everyone were wearing masks.
    Probably. Though many seem to simultaneously believe no one listens to this shower of a government anyway, and yet that the government would be utterly trusted and therefore followed if it used slightly better words.
    About right - and besides, most of the people who are still very anxious about going outside, despite how little of the disease there is left in circulation in most of the country, aren't going to be influenced by the extent of mask wearing anyway. They're going to stay at home regardless, unless absolutely compelled to go out, for the remainder of their lives or until there's a fully effective vaccine (whichever comes first.) Therefore, if the rationale for getting everyone to wear masks the whole time is to placate them, it's a monumental waste of time and effort.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Starmer priority must be to achieve 40% consistently, still work to do on that Lib Dem and Green vote

    Labour needs a LibDem revival more than anything.

    Taking from Tory vote indeed - but those voters are currently still with the Tories. Presumably because Brexit has not yet been a disaster
    That is right. If the Conservative Party is polling higher than 35% this time next year I will genuinely be shocked. You have a Tory s""tshow double bill coming down the track. If post-Covid isn't a rerun of the 1930s I'd be surprised. Add to that the Brexit dividend and you have the ingredients for a heady cocktail of economic catastrophe.

    For once in my life I am hoping it works out for Johnson, otherwise we are all screwed. I can't see it though.

    Incumbents always get the blame.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    nichomar said:

    It’s actually quite interesting how the pandemic has made many countries insular. There is real carnage in many places around the world and it hardly gets a mention. There is going to be one hell of a mess to be cleared up after this is over and it will make Europe’s problems seem insignificant.

    I think autarky and protectionism are the next phase in the economic downward spiral. 1930s revisited...
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413

    dixiedean said:

    Those are shocking figures re registered Republicans. When I was at Uni in the late eighties with a large number of Americans, there were several surprising Republicans.
    Many of them would have been comfortable in the LDs.

    A long term legacy of the civil war.

    As well as the standard centre-right types the Republicans also had liberals from New England and hillbillies from Appalachia.

    Whereas the Democrats had KKK supporters from the South along with standard centre-left types.
    They also dominated the West Coast in those days too. My Godfather, a gay, liberal, borderline pacifist Californian was a staunch Republican believing it was best for business. You can't see that happening these days.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Starmer priority must be to achieve 40% consistently, still work to do on that Lib Dem and Green vote

    Labour needs a LibDem revival more than anything.

    The net result of everything that's happened since the election (according to the polls, which granted aren't worth very much) is that Labour has eaten a third of the Lib Dem vote plus the "never Tory" residuum of the Brexit Party's support. The Conservative share is completely stable and the Lib Dems seem further from any kind of "revival" than ever before.

    Labour supporters really need to stop praying that the completely moribund Liberal Democrats will somehow take just enough seats off the Tories to permit a wobbly as anything rainbow coalition to take over, and work out how to get large numbers of Con-to-Lab switchers on side. If Labour can't present itself plausibly as a potential majority party again, then it's going to find itself perpetually crippled by association with the SNP with all that entails. The rest is noise.
    Let us see what a deep recession does to the Tory vote.Perhaps worth pointing out too that one effect of the 2015 electoral earhquake in Scotland has been to knock circa 2% off Labour's GB vote share . Thus, in terms of England & Wales 38% today is likely to be the equivalent of 40% pre-2015.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Foxy said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    I am pleased to see that India now has a Coronavirus cure...


    Can't be any worse than the Trumpist stuff.

    What's it like to drink? A Scot asks.
    If anything like other Indian whisky, suitable only for an absolute emergency...
    I.e. cleaning wounds!

    My first and last experience of Indian whiskey was ‘White Horse’ in Mount Abu. It was hideous, but I supped down a couple of tots purely to be polite.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    edited July 2020
    The only thing surprising about the polling is why anyone thought Labour would be ahead. The governments performance has been flawed, but we’re still in the middle of a national crisis. Any reckoning comes later.

    Starmer needs to remember that the role of opposition in a crisis is to strike the difficult line of helpful critic.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Stocky said:

    felix said:

    Stocky said:

    Starmer priority must be to achieve 40% consistently, still work to do on that Lib Dem and Green vote

    Labour needs a LibDem revival more than anything.

    Could get one with Davey
    Yup there's been a steady uptick in the LD vote share since he's been back in charge - oh wait no- there's been the sum total of nada!
    Davey is far more likely to pull across Tory voters than Moran is
    I agree but so far he hasn't made a dent.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Foxy said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    I am pleased to see that India now has a Coronavirus cure...


    Can't be any worse than the Trumpist stuff.

    What's it like to drink? A Scot asks.
    If anything like other Indian whisky, suitable only for an absolute emergency...
    I.e. cleaning wounds!

    My first and last experience of Indian whiskey was ‘White Horse’ in Mount Abu. It was hideous, but I supped down a couple of tots purely to be polite.
    When I stayed in the Ahmednaggar Club, about 1995, it was a real Imperial relic. There was a "permit room" where alcohol was served. Bizarrely it was decorated with garish wild west murals. The whisky was truly appalling, but the beer was fine. I think the billiards table had not been re-baized in decades.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    felix said:

    Stocky said:

    felix said:

    Stocky said:

    Starmer priority must be to achieve 40% consistently, still work to do on that Lib Dem and Green vote

    Labour needs a LibDem revival more than anything.

    Could get one with Davey
    Yup there's been a steady uptick in the LD vote share since he's been back in charge - oh wait no- there's been the sum total of nada!
    Davey is far more likely to pull across Tory voters than Moran is
    I agree but so far he hasn't made a dent.
    Its policies which will make much more of a difference rather than the leader right now.

    Drug legislation is one of the main one the LD should go for. It would put Sir Keir in a tougher spot.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729
    isam said:

    Opinium showing 4 point lead, they were most accurate at last election.

    I think lead is probably 4-6 points, YG is outlier

    You Gov have been almost exactly the same as the average of all polls since Starmer took over at Labour, never at the extremes of either party's score. Why are people so keen to dismiss them?
    because it suits the left to assume its only 4pts. Southam Observer suggested 10 points was liveable with yesterday, when I pointed out it was 10 POINTS (after all the guff talked about Starmer surge) which was huge, I was accused of "PB Tory" triumphalism. You cannot win. POlls will be all over the place.. wait till 2022 before worrying about them again....
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413
    Andy_JS said:

    Starmer priority must be to achieve 40% consistently, still work to do on that Lib Dem and Green vote

    Doesn't 6% represent rock-bottom for the LDs?
    Not far off. Aside from the committed, you've got the ones on the left who live in LD seats (OK not so many These days) and those where Labour are a distant third.
    Not much left to squeeze methinks.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    Scott_xP said:
    Now we are talking! Street fighting Biden.

    This is gonna be brutal.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,608
    felix said:

    Stocky said:

    felix said:

    Stocky said:

    Starmer priority must be to achieve 40% consistently, still work to do on that Lib Dem and Green vote

    Labour needs a LibDem revival more than anything.

    Could get one with Davey
    Yup there's been a steady uptick in the LD vote share since he's been back in charge - oh wait no- there's been the sum total of nada!
    Davey is far more likely to pull across Tory voters than Moran is
    I agree but so far he hasn't made a dent.
    LibDems to elect Arthur Dent?
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,905
    Stocky said:

    felix said:

    Stocky said:

    Starmer priority must be to achieve 40% consistently, still work to do on that Lib Dem and Green vote

    Labour needs a LibDem revival more than anything.
    Could get one with Davey
    Yup there's been a steady uptick in the LD vote share since he's been back in charge - oh wait no- there's been the sum total of nada!
    Davey is far more likely to pull across Tory voters than Moran is
    Keep up to date, young Felix! The Lib Dem election is not due to be declared until the end of August. "Back in charge"? If Davey win this internal election, he will be Lib Dem leader for the first time.....

    Quiz time.... What does Ed Davey have in common with Ed Balls and Ken Clark?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413
    What is more. As long as the Tories continue to convince c.45% of the population to support them it doesn't matter a fig what Starmer does or doesn't do.
    They'll still win.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729

    felix said:

    Stocky said:

    felix said:

    Stocky said:

    Starmer priority must be to achieve 40% consistently, still work to do on that Lib Dem and Green vote

    Labour needs a LibDem revival more than anything.

    Could get one with Davey
    Yup there's been a steady uptick in the LD vote share since he's been back in charge - oh wait no- there's been the sum total of nada!
    Davey is far more likely to pull across Tory voters than Moran is
    I agree but so far he hasn't made a dent.
    LibDems to elect Arthur Dent?
    ....might do better with Arthur "two sheds" Jackson.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    felix said:

    Stocky said:

    felix said:

    Stocky said:

    Starmer priority must be to achieve 40% consistently, still work to do on that Lib Dem and Green vote

    Labour needs a LibDem revival more than anything.

    Could get one with Davey
    Yup there's been a steady uptick in the LD vote share since he's been back in charge - oh wait no- there's been the sum total of nada!
    Davey is far more likely to pull across Tory voters than Moran is
    I agree but so far he hasn't made a dent.
    Its policies which will make much more of a difference rather than the leader right now.

    Drug legislation is one of the main one the LD should go for. It would put Sir Keir in a tougher spot.
    Decriminalisation yes, but I quit the party if legalisation is advocated.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,555
    Andy_JS said:

    It's difficult to understand how the SNP can be as high as 6% in a GB-wide poll. They were on 4% at GE2019 when they polled 45% in Scotland.
    All the SNP votes come from a small proportion (under 10%) of the whole UK sample so are liable to higher random variation from the norm than national parties - effectively it's a subset, if that's the word I want.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Scott_xP said:
    Now we are talking! Street fighting Biden.

    This is gonna be brutal.
    Biden is good at this stuff. Even when functioning at brainstem level he knows how to get under Trumps skin.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    edited July 2020

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    tlg86 said:

    Nigelb said:

    tlg86 said:

    Nigelb said:

    On a note of concern today's positive cases were proportionally high with the details potentially dangerous.

    Now given the pubs opened a week ago that might just be a factor.

    Or maybe not.

    A close watch will have to be made on the testing numbers for the next few days.

    Now if the opening of pubs did have an effect then the government policy of encouraging people to visit them might need to change and would mean that masks in shops is an even more stupid idea.

    On better news new cases in the Bournemouth area remain minimal - further suggesting that outside activities are low risk.

    Still not understanding your argument that masks in shops is a ‘stupid idea’.
    Would you care to explain it ?
    There was a scientist on BBC Breakfast arguing that the government might be shifting towards encouraging the wearing of masks to make nervous people feel safer about shopping.

    Personally I think it will have the opposite affect and will reduce the propensity for people to go out as there are plenty of people who won't want to wear a mask so just won't bother.
    How does your difference of opinion make it a stupid idea ?
    I'm not giving an opinion on whether or not it's a stupid idea. I appreciate that there probably is a decent benefit from people wearing masks. The problem is this. No one is brave enough to tell the plebs that they need to accept that we cannot eradicate it and that we need to get back to "normal".

    For months we have been saying on here that the big challenge is getting people to go back to normal. There are some people who would rather stay at home than go to the pub/football/shops and wear a mask.
    With good government messaging, there would be a great deal more who would be more comfortable about being in indoor public places if everyone were wearing masks.
    Probably. Though many seem to simultaneously believe no one listens to this shower of a government anyway, and yet that the government would be utterly trusted and therefore followed if it used slightly better words.


  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,608
    Spent a night and a couple of days down in Cornwall. Happy to say, hospitality seems to be coping OK with the virus down there. Only people seen wearing masks are serving staff. Two fabulous quality lunches, one rather disastrous dinner last night at a chi-chi hotel where I would have expected far better. Can't remember when I last sent a meal back - donkey's years - but something had gone horribly wrong with the salted fish. Not much fish, a plateful of salt....

    The Good Lady's panacotta wouldn't have registered a wobble if you'd dynamited it.

    Despite being very good to us on one other thing, they have clearly not got back up and running yet to their own very high standards, fair to say.

    However, foody trip salvaged today with the best lobster she'd ever had. Bar none. Rick Stein's St. Petroc Bistro. Very highly recommended. No dip in quality there during lockdown.

    Still, bloody lovely to be out and about, having food prepared by somebody else. And not having to load the dish-washer after. And the weather was sublime. So we are in good spirits tonight.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    Scott_xP said:
    Hes a madman who does a dozen bad things every day. Does he really need to be criticised for taking the only exercise he does when he is obese and in a desk job? Surely he is likely to perform even worse if he does literally nothing but watch fox news and tweet.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102
    dixiedean said:

    What is more. As long as the Tories continue to convince c.45% of the population to support them it doesn't matter a fig what Starmer does or doesn't do.
    They'll still win.

    To be honest I really do not think all this 'woke' and identity narrative is helping labour at all, especially in the red wall seats

    Demands for Land of Hope and Glory and Britannia to be banned at the proms will not go down well either in these areas
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002

    Hes a madman who does a dozen bad things every day. Does he really need to be criticised for taking the only exercise he does when he is obese and in a desk job? Surely he is likely to perform even worse if he does literally nothing but watch fox news and tweet.

    Donald Trump has tweeted about golf at least 460 times since creating his Twitter account in 2009.

    He’s promoted the courses he owns, praised the game as a source of mental and physical development, critiqued other courses, and bragged about whom he’s playing with.

    Between 2011 and 2016, he also tweeted at least 27 complaints, jokes, or scoldings about Barack Obama playing golf while president.


    https://www.sbnation.com/golf/2017/3/27/15073086/donald-trump-tweets-barack-obama-golf
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    Scott_xP said:

    Hes a madman who does a dozen bad things every day. Does he really need to be criticised for taking the only exercise he does when he is obese and in a desk job? Surely he is likely to perform even worse if he does literally nothing but watch fox news and tweet.

    Donald Trump has tweeted about golf at least 460 times since creating his Twitter account in 2009.

    He’s promoted the courses he owns, praised the game as a source of mental and physical development, critiqued other courses, and bragged about whom he’s playing with.

    Between 2011 and 2016, he also tweeted at least 27 complaints, jokes, or scoldings about Barack Obama playing golf while president.


    https://www.sbnation.com/golf/2017/3/27/15073086/donald-trump-tweets-barack-obama-golf
    I know. And it is not in the top 500 things he should be criticised for.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,285

    Scott_xP said:
    Hes a madman who does a dozen bad things every day. Does he really need to be criticised for taking the only exercise he does when he is obese and in a desk job? Surely he is likely to perform even worse if he does literally nothing but watch fox news and tweet.
    Did you see the golf carts? It’s not even a good walk spoiled.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002

    it is not in the top 500 things he should be criticised for.

    It is in the top 5 things Trump cares about, which is why it is so effective
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837

    Scott_xP said:
    Hes a madman who does a dozen bad things every day. Does he really need to be criticised for taking the only exercise he does when he is obese and in a desk job? Surely he is likely to perform even worse if he does literally nothing but watch fox news and tweet.
    Did you see the golf carts? It’s not even a good walk spoiled.
    I dont think its unusual in a late seventies obese golfer. Better than no exercise!
  • Scott do you comment or just post Twitter
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002

    Scott do you comment or just post Twitter

    Yes
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    Scott_xP said:

    it is not in the top 500 things he should be criticised for.

    It is in the top 5 things Trump cares about, which is why it is so effective
    Do you want to make a madman feel bad? Or spend time convincing others not to vote for the madman? I know it should be obvious not to, but it in real life thats what needs to be done.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780

    Starmer priority must be to achieve 40% consistently, still work to do on that Lib Dem and Green vote

    Labour needs a LibDem revival more than anything.

    Taking from Tory vote indeed - but those voters are currently still with the Tories. Presumably because Brexit has not yet been a disaster
    That is right. If the Conservative Party is polling higher than 35% this time next year I will genuinely be shocked. You have a Tory s""tshow double bill coming down the track. If post-Covid isn't a rerun of the 1930s I'd be surprised. Add to that the Brexit dividend and you have the ingredients for a heady cocktail of economic catastrophe.

    For once in my life I am hoping it works out for Johnson, otherwise we are all screwed. I can't see it though.

    Incumbents always get the blame.
    Yes, the Conservatives will do well to be polling more than 35% in the latter half of 2021, as reality bites in its many forms. It is possible that Sunak could defer the pain of economic retrenchment until 2022 in which case they might still be polling a bit above that but with a further fall to come. I don't see any way that they could pursue expansionary fiscal policies all the way to the 2024 GE.

    The 10% YouGov Conservative poll lead came on the back of polling conducted on the very evening of the mini budget and the morning after (ie. fieldwork: Wednesday and Thursday). Lots of goodies for everyone, no pain for anyone. How long can that last? It's meaningless unless the next General Election is held on the day after another £30bn budget giveaway.

    I think for Starmer to already be within 4% with Opinium (fieldwork: Thursday and Friday) is still a stunningly good recovery for Labour in the circumstances. There wasn't even a swing back to the Conservatives compared to a week earlier.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102
    edited July 2020
    Scott_xP said:
    Are we now double tweeting the same tweet ????
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413

    Scott_xP said:
    Are we now double tweeting the same tweet ????
    More interestingly, further down that front page. Ministers telling workers to get back on buses and trains.
    Seems they've decided February was a veritable Golden Age...all back to work exactly as before.
    Nothing has changed.
    Except it has.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482

    Foxy said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    I am pleased to see that India now has a Coronavirus cure...


    Can't be any worse than the Trumpist stuff.

    What's it like to drink? A Scot asks.
    If anything like other Indian whisky, suitable only for an absolute emergency...
    I.e. cleaning wounds!

    My first and last experience of Indian whiskey was ‘White Horse’ in Mount Abu. It was hideous, but I supped down a couple of tots purely to be polite.
    White Horse is a Scotch whisky!

    Indian whisky can be ok - the proper stuff. There is one called Paul John (I think) that is meant to be nice. It matures very quickly due to the hot climate, so you'll never see a very aged one.

    That looks like shite - the Indian component isn't even whisky but 'grain spirit'. :anguished:
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    Foxy said:

    nichomar said:

    It’s actually quite interesting how the pandemic has made many countries insular. There is real carnage in many places around the world and it hardly gets a mention. There is going to be one hell of a mess to be cleared up after this is over and it will make Europe’s problems seem insignificant.

    I think autarky and protectionism are the next phase in the economic downward spiral. 1930s revisited...
    Our economy didn't spiral downward in the 1930s.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    edited July 2020
    ClippP said:

    Stocky said:

    felix said:

    Stocky said:

    Starmer priority must be to achieve 40% consistently, still work to do on that Lib Dem and Green vote

    Labour needs a LibDem revival more than anything.
    Could get one with Davey
    Yup there's been a steady uptick in the LD vote share since he's been back in charge - oh wait no- there's been the sum total of nada!
    Davey is far more likely to pull across Tory voters than Moran is
    Keep up to date, young Felix! The Lib Dem election is not due to be declared until the end of August. "Back in charge"? If Davey win this internal election, he will be Lib Dem leader for the first time.....

    Quiz time.... What does Ed Davey have in common with Ed Balls and Ken Clark?
    Nottingham High School.

    Edit: I believe the two Eds were there at same time.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,707
    How do you think they will help?
  • We already had free ports.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited July 2020
    This seems to be a long-term signal from Sunak / Boris that there'll be a return to a more Thatcherite component of policy.

    Personally I'd be extremely dubious of the wisdom of largeish tax cuts at the moment, depending also , though , on where they're targeted.
  • Jesus how hard is it for the Tories (and Labour) to understand: BUILD MORE HOUSES
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482

    How do you think they will help?
    I think they'll create jobs and stimulate investment.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370

    Jesus how hard is it for the Tories (and Labour) to understand: BUILD MORE HOUSES

    The modern religion -

    - people are bad
    - the works of people are bad
    - the countryside is sacred

    And then they wonder why it is that more houses aren't available.
  • So where is the money coming from Rishi?

    Massive deficit + tax cuts?

    If this was Labour people would be calling out this tripe
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Spent a night and a couple of days down in Cornwall. Happy to say, hospitality seems to be coping OK with the virus down there. Only people seen wearing masks are serving staff. Two fabulous quality lunches, one rather disastrous dinner last night at a chi-chi hotel where I would have expected far better. Can't remember when I last sent a meal back - donkey's years - but something had gone horribly wrong with the salted fish. Not much fish, a plateful of salt....

    The Good Lady's panacotta wouldn't have registered a wobble if you'd dynamited it.

    Despite being very good to us on one other thing, they have clearly not got back up and running yet to their own very high standards, fair to say.

    However, foody trip salvaged today with the best lobster she'd ever had. Bar none. Rick Stein's St. Petroc Bistro. Very highly recommended. No dip in quality there during lockdown.

    Still, bloody lovely to be out and about, having food prepared by somebody else. And not having to load the dish-washer after. And the weather was sublime. So we are in good spirits tonight.

    Good to hear. I am headed Cornwall way next weekend.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    England case data out -

    image
    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370

    Foxy said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    I am pleased to see that India now has a Coronavirus cure...


    Can't be any worse than the Trumpist stuff.

    What's it like to drink? A Scot asks.
    If anything like other Indian whisky, suitable only for an absolute emergency...
    I.e. cleaning wounds!

    My first and last experience of Indian whiskey was ‘White Horse’ in Mount Abu. It was hideous, but I supped down a couple of tots purely to be polite.
    Can't be worse that Mount Everest Whisky from Nepal.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766

    So where is the money coming from Rishi?

    Massive deficit + tax cuts?

    If this was Labour people would be calling out this tripe

    Spectator running a piece this weekend on the dangers of Tory magic money tree. Senior MPs wondering why they stood on a 'there's no magic money tree' manifesto to see that there is now a magic forest.

    Plus, Toynbee in Guardian reports that IFS have a wealth tax commission up and running with some big names and serious tax and law experts looking at blocking loopholes. And the Treasury are very interested.

    Make of all this what you will.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    England case data down to low level authority -

    image
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    felix said:

    FF43 said:

    The choice is stark. If you rate decency and competence you vote for Starmer. If you vote for the corrupt and incompetent charlatan, it's because you don't actually care. Not enough people care, so Johnson sits pretty.

    I see we're back to blaming the voters for being shite... in your opinion.
    I don't blame voters for being shite. I point out that as long as honesty, competence and decency are unimportant to a large part of the electorate, Starmer's chances of becoming PM are small. Honesty, competence and decency are his offer, in contrast to Johnson.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,707

    How do you think they will help?
    I think they'll create jobs and stimulate investment.
    Why did they not before?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482

    Jesus how hard is it for the Tories (and Labour) to understand: BUILD MORE HOUSES

    The modern religion -

    - people are bad
    - the works of people are bad
    - the countryside is sacred

    And then they wonder why it is that more houses aren't available.
    Are they not available, or are they just not available where people want them? Coronavirus has surely shown us that a two up two down within commuter range of London doesn't really make sense. 'We spend £500,000 on a semi in Surbiton - let's spend it on a Castle in Scotland instead.'
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,599
    edited July 2020

    Jesus how hard is it for the Tories (and Labour) to understand: BUILD MORE HOUSES

    What about the Green Belt? It's the only thing stopping most towns in the south-east of England from merging into one another in a giant urban sprawl.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370

    Jesus how hard is it for the Tories (and Labour) to understand: BUILD MORE HOUSES

    The modern religion -

    - people are bad
    - the works of people are bad
    - the countryside is sacred

    And then they wonder why it is that more houses aren't available.
    Are they not available, or are they just not available where people want them? Coronavirus has surely shown us that a two up two down within commuter range of London doesn't really make sense. 'We spend £500,000 on a semi in Surbiton - let's spend it on a Castle in Scotland instead.'
    But people are evil.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Jesus how hard is it for the Tories (and Labour) to understand: BUILD MORE HOUSES

    The modern religion -

    - people are bad
    - the works of people are bad
    - the countryside is sacred

    And then they wonder why it is that more houses aren't available.
    Are they not available, or are they just not available where people want them? Coronavirus has surely shown us that a two up two down within commuter range of London doesn't really make sense. 'We spend £500,000 on a semi in Surbiton - let's spend it on a Castle in Scotland instead.'
    Or perhaps a pebbledash in Hartlepool. Get the Prosperity in the Purple wall is the key to the next GE, not sucking more wealth generating opportunities into the SE.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,707
    edited July 2020
    Andy_JS said:

    Jesus how hard is it for the Tories (and Labour) to understand: BUILD MORE HOUSES

    What about the Green Belt? It's the only thing stopping most towns in the south-east of England from merging into one another in a giant urban sprawl.
    Plenty of the south-east has no green belt.

    image
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482

    How do you think they will help?
    I think they'll create jobs and stimulate investment.
    Why did they not before?
    Because they were subject to EU rules and regulations particularly on state aid, meaning 'free zones' are not really worthy of the name.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    Foxy said:

    Jesus how hard is it for the Tories (and Labour) to understand: BUILD MORE HOUSES

    The modern religion -

    - people are bad
    - the works of people are bad
    - the countryside is sacred

    And then they wonder why it is that more houses aren't available.
    Are they not available, or are they just not available where people want them? Coronavirus has surely shown us that a two up two down within commuter range of London doesn't really make sense. 'We spend £500,000 on a semi in Surbiton - let's spend it on a Castle in Scotland instead.'
    Or perhaps a pebbledash in Hartlepool. Get the Prosperity in the Purple wall is the key to the next GE, not sucking more wealth generating opportunities into the SE.
    I am sure there are delightful properties in Hartlepool, especially compared to what the same outlay could get you in the Home counties.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,599
    "PETER HITCHENS: Forget face masks and fear - let's relax and accept the risk"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8513543/PETER-HITCHENS-Forget-face-masks-fear-lets-relax-accept-risk.html
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149

    Jesus how hard is it for the Tories (and Labour) to understand: BUILD MORE HOUSES

    Unfortunately people don't like houses being built in practice, only in theory, and things seem to combine to cause problems both from the NIMBY end and the developer greed end.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Foxy said:

    Jesus how hard is it for the Tories (and Labour) to understand: BUILD MORE HOUSES

    The modern religion -

    - people are bad
    - the works of people are bad
    - the countryside is sacred

    And then they wonder why it is that more houses aren't available.
    Are they not available, or are they just not available where people want them? Coronavirus has surely shown us that a two up two down within commuter range of London doesn't really make sense. 'We spend £500,000 on a semi in Surbiton - let's spend it on a Castle in Scotland instead.'
    Or perhaps a pebbledash in Hartlepool. Get the Prosperity in the Purple wall is the key to the next GE, not sucking more wealth generating opportunities into the SE.
    I am sure there are delightful properties in Hartlepool, especially compared to what the same outlay could get you in the Home counties.
    Absolutely. But that is where the investment is needed, not the SE.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Jesus how hard is it for the Tories (and Labour) to understand: BUILD MORE HOUSES

    The modern religion -

    - people are badAgr
    - the works of people are bad
    - the countryside is sacred

    And then they wonder why it is that more houses aren't available.
    Are they not available, or are they just not available where people want them? Coronavirus has surely shown us that a two up two down within commuter range of London doesn't really make sense. 'We spend £500,000 on a semi in Surbiton - let's spend it on a Castle in Scotland instead.'
    Or perhaps a pebbledash in Hartlepool. Get the Prosperity in the Purple wall is the key to the next GE, not sucking more wealth generating opportunities into the SE.
    I am sure there are delightful properties in Hartlepool, especially compared to what the same outlay could get you in the Home counties.
    Absolutely. But that is where the investment is needed, not the SE.
    Agree!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149

    Jesus how hard is it for the Tories (and Labour) to understand: BUILD MORE HOUSES

    The modern religion -

    - people are bad
    - the works of people are bad
    - the countryside is sacred

    And then they wonder why it is that more houses aren't available.

    So where is the money coming from Rishi?

    Massive deficit + tax cuts?

    If this was Labour people would be calling out this tripe

    It's not coming from anywhere. The ultimate kicking the can down the road. An extraordinary situation requires that to some degree no doubt, without implying that it is something that should happen as a matter of course normally, but I'm terrified of just how bad things are going to be for a long long time.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149

    Jesus how hard is it for the Tories (and Labour) to understand: BUILD MORE HOUSES

    The modern religion -

    - people are bad
    - the works of people are bad
    - the countryside is sacred

    And then they wonder why it is that more houses aren't available.
    Are they not available, or are they just not available where people want them? Coronavirus has surely shown us that a two up two down within commuter range of London doesn't really make sense. 'We spend £500,000 on a semi in Surbiton - let's spend it on a Castle in Scotland instead.'
    I'm sure there'll be an effect, but I wonder how pronounced it will be. People already knew your money goes further in other places, and even with more converts to home working and so on there will in the first place be plenty who don't want to do that, and also plenty who even if they do, won't want to go quite that far afield just in case they do want to get out and about locally.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    Hope you all followed Andy Holding today
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780

    Scott_xP said:
    Hes a madman who does a dozen bad things every day. Does he really need to be criticised for taking the only exercise he does when he is obese and in a desk job? Surely he is likely to perform even worse if he does literally nothing but watch fox news and tweet.
    No, he is certain to perform worse if he does anything other than nothing. Everything he touches causes a disaster, so better for him to touch nothing at all.

    So Trump playing golf is the lesser of every evil you could think of. But he still deserves criticism for his golfing habit, because he's a serial cheat.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/apr/02/donald-trump-golf-28-club-championships
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780

    England case data down to low level authority -

    image

    WTF is going on in rural Herefordshire? 56 cases out of nowhere yesterday.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    England case data down to low level authority -

    image

    WTF is going on in rural Herefordshire? 56 cases out of nowhere yesterday.
    Historic cases being entered?
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,660
    edited July 2020
    Andy_JS said:

    "PETER HITCHENS: Forget face masks and fear - let's relax and accept the risk"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8513543/PETER-HITCHENS-Forget-face-masks-fear-lets-relax-accept-risk.html

    Does he truly believe his contrarianism?

    Advocating that a subset of society should be able to sign away their responsibilities to the whole seems bizarre. Just because they've abrogated any medical treatment if they catch the bug does not mean they won't be spreading it around those who took a more selfless choice.

    Look at America. Libertarians decrying the lock down and placing full responsibility on the person, seem not to understand that epidemiology does not respect the right of Peter and friends to exhale freely in the presence of the like minded.

    His ideology seems translucent when a collective effort is required to mitigate this. If everyone took Peter's approach why wouldn't the UK look just like Florida, Arizona, or Texas?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Andy_JS said:

    "PETER HITCHENS: Forget face masks and fear - let's relax and accept the risk"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8513543/PETER-HITCHENS-Forget-face-masks-fear-lets-relax-accept-risk.html

    Isn’t it funny? Both sides, those who think the lockdown was too light and too late in being imposed, and those who think it was a completely unnecessary imposition, both eager for the enquiry to prove them right
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357

    Andy_JS said:

    It's difficult to understand how the SNP can be as high as 6% in a GB-wide poll.
    Must be due to rounding upwards as 50% equated to 4.9% in 2015.
    keep hoping its not true, down to fact people have seen the light. The arseholes in charge of England are forcing big changes.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:
    At least they mentioned the SNP - which is more than some polls bother to do.

    Hope you are keeping well. Been cloudy with some sun over in the east - very pleasant actually.
    Hello Carnyx, not bad here , bit breezy , not bad but not great, I got the garden sorted out. Had a great day mind you , hope all well with you.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,528
    Foxy said:

    England case data down to low level authority -

    image

    WTF is going on in rural Herefordshire? 56 cases out of nowhere yesterday.
    Historic cases being entered?
    SAS back at barracks?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    edited July 2020

    Foxy said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    I am pleased to see that India now has a Coronavirus cure...


    Can't be any worse than the Trumpist stuff.

    What's it like to drink? A Scot asks.
    If anything like other Indian whisky, suitable only for an absolute emergency...
    I.e. cleaning wounds!

    My first and last experience of Indian whiskey was ‘White Horse’ in Mount Abu. It was hideous, but I supped down a couple of tots purely to be polite.
    White Horse is a Scotch whisky!

    Indian whisky can be ok - the proper stuff. There is one called Paul John (I think) that is meant to be nice. It matures very quickly due to the hot climate, so you'll never see a very aged one.

    That looks like shite - the Indian component isn't even whisky but 'grain spirit'. :anguished:
    Maybe so but this was ‘White Horse’ not White Horse and was an Indian beverage - and we are talking 20-odd years ago!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    It's difficult to understand how the SNP can be as high as 6% in a GB-wide poll. They were on 4% at GE2019 when they polled 45% in Scotland.
    All the SNP votes come from a small proportion (under 10%) of the whole UK sample so are liable to higher random variation from the norm than national parties - effectively it's a subset, if that's the word I want.
    LOL, keep on praying, the union is dead.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482

    Foxy said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    I am pleased to see that India now has a Coronavirus cure...


    Can't be any worse than the Trumpist stuff.

    What's it like to drink? A Scot asks.
    If anything like other Indian whisky, suitable only for an absolute emergency...
    I.e. cleaning wounds!

    My first and last experience of Indian whiskey was ‘White Horse’ in Mount Abu. It was hideous, but I supped down a couple of tots purely to be polite.
    White Horse is a Scotch whisky!

    Indian whisky can be ok - the proper stuff. There is one called Paul John (I think) that is meant to be nice. It matures very quickly due to the hot climate, so you'll never see a very aged one.

    That looks like shite - the Indian component isn't even whisky but 'grain spirit'. :anguished:
    Maybe so but this was ‘White Horse’ not White Horse and was an Indian beverage - and we are talking 20-odd years ago!
    I can believe that. India is pretty notorious for its copycat brands. 'Johnny Worker' etc. :lol:
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,217
    felix said:

    Stocky said:

    Starmer priority must be to achieve 40% consistently, still work to do on that Lib Dem and Green vote

    Labour needs a LibDem revival more than anything.

    Could get one with Davey
    Yup there's been a steady uptick in the LD vote share since he's been back in charge - oh wait no- there's been the sum total of nada!
    To be fair, I suspect that Moran and Davey are talking to the members of the Liberal Democrat Party right now. If you had a membership card, you'd probably have heard from the both many times.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    edited July 2020

    Foxy said:

    England case data down to low level authority -

    image

    WTF is going on in rural Herefordshire? 56 cases out of nowhere yesterday.
    Historic cases being entered?
    SAS back at barracks?
    At a random guess - a case or 2 followed by a zillion pillar 2 tests. Apparently in Leicester you have to run like Jackie Chan to avoid a test now...

    Either that or a subset of SeanTs were in the neighbourhood.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,217
    Andy_JS said:

    "PETER HITCHENS: Forget face masks and fear - let's relax and accept the risk"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8513543/PETER-HITCHENS-Forget-face-masks-fear-lets-relax-accept-risk.html

    You don't wear a mask to protect yourself, you wear a mask to protect your parents and your grandparents, and because a little collective action allows us all to relax a little earlier.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,707
    The global picture for coronavirus does not look good at all.

    image
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Foxy said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    I am pleased to see that India now has a Coronavirus cure...


    Can't be any worse than the Trumpist stuff.

    What's it like to drink? A Scot asks.
    If anything like other Indian whisky, suitable only for an absolute emergency...
    I.e. cleaning wounds!

    My first and last experience of Indian whiskey was ‘White Horse’ in Mount Abu. It was hideous, but I supped down a couple of tots purely to be polite.
    White Horse is a Scotch whisky!

    Indian whisky can be ok - the proper stuff. There is one called Paul John (I think) that is meant to be nice. It matures very quickly due to the hot climate, so you'll never see a very aged one.

    That looks like shite - the Indian component isn't even whisky but 'grain spirit'. :anguished:
    Maybe so but this was ‘White Horse’ not White Horse and was an Indian beverage - and we are talking 20-odd years ago!
    I can believe that. India is pretty notorious for its copycat brands. 'Johnny Worker' etc. :lol:
    😆
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,707
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "PETER HITCHENS: Forget face masks and fear - let's relax and accept the risk"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8513543/PETER-HITCHENS-Forget-face-masks-fear-lets-relax-accept-risk.html

    You don't wear a mask to protect yourself, you wear a mask to protect your parents and your grandparents, and because a little collective action allows us all to relax a little earlier.
    Hitchens is only one level away from questioning whether viruses even exist.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,878

    Jesus how hard is it for the Tories (and Labour) to understand: BUILD MORE HOUSES

    The modern religion -

    - people are bad
    - the works of people are bad
    - the countryside is sacred

    And then they wonder why it is that more houses aren't available.
    Are they not available, or are they just not available where people want them? Coronavirus has surely shown us that a two up two down within commuter range of London doesn't really make sense. 'We spend £500,000 on a semi in Surbiton - let's spend it on a Castle in Scotland instead.'
    But people are evil.
    "Well it's true! It's true! You're semi-evil. You're quasi-evil. You're the margarine of evil. You're the Diet Coke of evil. Just one calorie, not evil enough."
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "PETER HITCHENS: Forget face masks and fear - let's relax and accept the risk"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8513543/PETER-HITCHENS-Forget-face-masks-fear-lets-relax-accept-risk.html

    You don't wear a mask to protect yourself, you wear a mask to protect your parents and your grandparents, and because a little collective action allows us all to relax a little earlier.
    Peter Hitchens’ parents and grandparents were unavailable for comment
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    kle4 said:

    Jesus how hard is it for the Tories (and Labour) to understand: BUILD MORE HOUSES

    Unfortunately people don't like houses being built in practice, only in theory, and things seem to combine to cause problems both from the NIMBY end and the developer greed end.
    Yes, house building is like tax rises. Everyone is in favour of as long as it doesn’t affect them.
  • fox327fox327 Posts: 370

    Andy_JS said:

    "PETER HITCHENS: Forget face masks and fear - let's relax and accept the risk"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8513543/PETER-HITCHENS-Forget-face-masks-fear-lets-relax-accept-risk.html

    Does he truly believe his contrarianism?

    Advocating that a subset of society should be able to sign away their responsibilities to the whole seems bizarre. Just because they've abrogated any medical treatment if they catch the bug does not mean they won't be spreading it around those who took a more selfless choice.

    Look at America. Libertarians decrying the lock down and placing full responsibility on the person, seem not to understand that epidemiology does not respect the right of Peter and friends to exhale freely in the presence of the like minded.

    His ideology seems translucent when a collective effort is required to mitigate this. If everyone took Peter's approach why wouldn't the UK look just like Florida, Arizona, or Texas?
    The longer this goes on the more people will focus on their own self-interests. Devoting one's life to preventing coronavirus transmission may appeal to many people for a few months, but once the time extends into years people will go back to dealing with their own personal priorities. If all you do with your life is prevent a virus transmitting, you have wasted your life. We only live once. Many people are doing nothing but thinking and talking about the virus. This is not natural, and I don't think it will last given that a high proportion of people who are infected by it survive and recover in a few days.

    However the epidemic has caused a huge psychological shock to a society in which many people are not accustomed to taking any personal risks. In fact taking personal risks is actively discouraged by all kinds of legislation and organisations. This is why the epidemic has been so hard to deal with. Personal risk-taking should not be spoken of. The NHS is sacred. The virus should not be approached. Maybe it is too soon for cultural anthropologists to be asked to contribute to SAGE discussions. They may have to wait until the crisis has passed to contribute their perspective.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    rcs1000 said:

    felix said:

    Stocky said:

    Starmer priority must be to achieve 40% consistently, still work to do on that Lib Dem and Green vote

    Labour needs a LibDem revival more than anything.

    Could get one with Davey
    Yup there's been a steady uptick in the LD vote share since he's been back in charge - oh wait no- there's been the sum total of nada!
    To be fair, I suspect that Moran and Davey are talking to the members of the Liberal Democrat Party right now. If you had a membership card, you'd probably have heard from the both many times.
    Not yet from either, but nominations have just officially closed. Something from Mark Pack with a list of hustings.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    Stocky said:

    felix said:

    Stocky said:

    Starmer priority must be to achieve 40% consistently, still work to do on that Lib Dem and Green vote

    Labour needs a LibDem revival more than anything.

    Could get one with Davey
    Yup there's been a steady uptick in the LD vote share since he's been back in charge - oh wait no- there's been the sum total of nada!
    Davey is far more likely to pull across Tory voters than Moran is
    I agree but so far he hasn't made a dent.
    Its policies which will make much more of a difference rather than the leader right now.

    Drug legislation is one of the main one the LD should go for. It would put Sir Keir in a tougher spot.
    Decriminalisation yes, but I quit the party if legalisation is advocated.
    Decriminalisation is pointless. What advantages does it have over legalisation?

    Surely with legalisation we need to legalise and regulate the entire supply chain. From field to sale. Get it completely out of the hands of gangsters.

    Less than that: why bother?
This discussion has been closed.