politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » My favourite political betting moment of the year
The worlds of politics and poker have been feeding off each other for many decades, and in the Middle East’s most discussed and highly charged conflict, the two were about to collide in an unexpected fashion.
Can I just say, one of the Defence barristers in the trial of the murder of Lee Rigby deserves an award for his use of English (but I suspect will lead to a load of abuse on twitter and from the media)
Can I just say, one of the Defence barristers in the trial of the murder of Lee Rigby deserves an award for his use of English (but I suspect will lead to a load of abuse on twitter and from the media)
Can I just say, one of the Defence barristers in the trial of the murder of Lee Rigby deserves an award for his use of English (but I suspect will lead to a load of abuse on twitter and from the media)
Can I just say, one of the Defence barristers in the trial of the murder of Lee Rigby deserves an award for his use of English (but I suspect will lead to a load of abuse on twitter and from the media)
Woolwich defence for Adebolajo called him "most law abiding terrorist in history" & said this wasnt most sadistic callous murder in history.
I suspect the jury will not be impressed.
Is there anything for the jury to decide when the defence barrister calls his client a terrorist and murderer? Sounds more like an appeal to the judge re sentancing (though I can't imagine it will have much effect there either).
Can I just say, one of the Defence barristers in the trial of the murder of Lee Rigby deserves an award for his use of English (but I suspect will lead to a load of abuse on twitter and from the media)
Woolwich defence for Adebolajo called him "most law abiding terrorist in history" & said this wasnt most sadistic callous murder in history.
I suspect the jury will not be impressed.
Is there anything for the jury to decide when the defence barrister calls his client a terrorist and murderer? Sounds more like an appeal to the judge re sentancing (though I can't imagine it will have much effect there either).
I don't even know why s/he has come out with it.
I'm rolling on with the twitter sarcasm/abuse btw:
JimmyB @Pulpstar 2m @lucymanning I'm sure Hitler didn't break any of Germany's laws, or Stalin Russia's or Vlad III Walachia's laws seeing as they made em. Reply Delete Favorite More Details JimmyB @Pulpstar now @lucymanning One could probably argue that being gassed isn't quite as bad as being flayed or boiled alive either. Reply Delete Favorite More Details JimmyB @Pulpstar now @lucymanning Heard some ludicrous defences in the past but this one takes the biscuit !
You could probably use the same line of defence if you had Hitler in the dock actually.
Hitler's defence should have been this (From Babylon 5 about another leader)
"Only an idiot fights a war on two fronts. Only the heir to the throne of the kingdom of idiots would fight a war on twelve fronts."
Honestly declaring war on America whilst fighting the UK and The USSR was the most idiotic strategic move since the Carthiginians decided those Romans were a bit rubbish.
Made FDR's sell of Germany First to the US population a lot easier.
Can I just say, one of the Defence barristers in the trial of the murder of Lee Rigby deserves an award for his use of English (but I suspect will lead to a load of abuse on twitter and from the media)
Woolwich defence for Adebolajo called him "most law abiding terrorist in history" & said this wasnt most sadistic callous murder in history.
I suspect the jury will not be impressed.
Is there anything for the jury to decide when the defence barrister calls his client a terrorist and murderer? Sounds more like an appeal to the judge re sentancing (though I can't imagine it will have much effect there either).
They have to follow instruction from the client. Judge could bypass jury but why risk an appeal ?
John McCain is a hoot and would have been a good President. He lost with a great deal more grace than Romney, he was a million times funnier and gave more than one hint that he was proud of a country that would elect a black American as President.
3:00pm - “Mr Gottlieb (representing Adebolajo), asked the jury to resist the "pressure from the world, the mob to convict."
He also described the attempted murder charge against Adebolajo as "possibly most ridiculous charge ever put before a judge and jury in the history of this country."
The barrister then compared Adebolajo’s run towards police with the Charge of the Light Brigade and quoted from Tennyson’s poem.”
Oh dear, when desperate measures call for Tennyson, your client is going down…!
Can I just say, one of the Defence barristers in the trial of the murder of Lee Rigby deserves an award for his use of English (but I suspect will lead to a load of abuse on twitter and from the media)
Woolwich defence for Adebolajo called him "most law abiding terrorist in history" & said this wasnt most sadistic callous murder in history.
I suspect the jury will not be impressed.
Is there anything for the jury to decide when the defence barrister calls his client a terrorist and murderer? Sounds more like an appeal to the judge re sentancing (though I can't imagine it will have much effect there either).
There's always jury nullification, though in this case I think...no. Judging by Adebolajo's testimony though he's more concerned with using the trial to get across his reasoning and world-view than mounting a legal defence, so I doubt his barrister did it as part of a master plan to get him off the hook.
I think that was of the police officers he charged with his gun in the hope of becoming a martyr. Think how much money could have been saved if he had been given his wish.
Presumably in relation to the police officer they charged at with knives drawn, only to both be shot in the leg and arrested. The one of them who testified stated that he at least did it to be shot dead (in battle, as he sees it) and was most surprised to survive. Hence his barrister claiming he never intended to actually hurt the police officer.
Presumably in relation to the police officer they charged at with knives drawn, only to both be shot in the leg and arrested. The one of them who testified stated that he at least did it to be shot dead (in battle, as he sees it) and was most surprised to survive. Hence his barrister claiming he never intended to actually hurt the police officer.
Isn't the logical reduction of that pretty much a precise definition of terrorism i.e. causing others to change their behaviour out of fear of what the alleged terrorists were (or were believed to be) doing or about to do. Hence, the police could only be safe if the accused were shot, and they would only be shot if the police were fearful for their safety, and they would only be fearful for their safety if the accused had engaged in activity to make them so.
Anyone here played Avalon/Resistance btw - A very fun game where bluffing is essential without cash. It is perfectly adaptable for playing cards too I think.
"I wouldn't be recommending this if it wasn't the right product for you"
And not just limited to poker.
It is really rhetoric, which with logic and grammar form the three ancient arts of discourse.
I wonder what Hopi Sen would make of this perfect example of 'logorrhea' by the 29th President of the US, Warren G. Harding:
"America's present need is not heroics, but healing; not nostrums, but normalcy; not revolution, but restoration; not agitation, but adjustment; not surgery, but serenity; not the dramatic, but the dispassionate; not experiment, but equipoise; not submergence in internationality, but sustainment in triumphant nationality..."
Harding must have had a terrible hand.
It is the speech which prompted McAdoo to claim that Harding's speeches were
"an army of pompous phrases moving across the landscape in search of an idea."
Easy to see that McAdoo was holding a Royal Flush.
3:00pm - “Mr Gottlieb (representing Adebolajo), asked the jury to resist the "pressure from the world, the mob to convict."
He also described the attempted murder charge against Adebolajo as "possibly most ridiculous charge ever put before a judge and jury in the history of this country."
The barrister then compared Adebolajo’s run towards police with the Charge of the Light Brigade and quoted from Tennyson’s poem.”
Oh dear, when desperate measures call for Tennyson, your client is going down…!
David Gottlieb, his defence counsel, explained that he was using a "Sherlock Holmes" approach, adding: "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."
"I wouldn't be recommending this if it wasn't the right product for you"
And not just limited to poker.
It is really rhetoric, which with logic and grammar form the three ancient arts of discourse.
I wonder what Hopi Sen would make of this perfect example of 'logorrhea' by the 29th President of the US, Warren G. Harding:
"America's present need is not heroics, but healing; not nostrums, but normalcy; not revolution, but restoration; not agitation, but adjustment; not surgery, but serenity; not the dramatic, but the dispassionate; not experiment, but equipoise; not submergence in internationality, but sustainment in triumphant nationality..."
Harding must have had a terrible hand.
It is the speech which prompted McAdoo to claim that Harding's speeches were
"an army of pompous phrases moving across the landscape in search of an idea."
Easy to see that McAdoo was holding a Royal Flush.
There was an excellent piece on rhetorical devices on the Today program a few weeks ago. I will be disappointed if the book being promoted does not turn up in my stocking. I dropped enough hints.
3:00pm - “Mr Gottlieb (representing Adebolajo), asked the jury to resist the "pressure from the world, the mob to convict."
He also described the attempted murder charge against Adebolajo as "possibly most ridiculous charge ever put before a judge and jury in the history of this country."
The barrister then compared Adebolajo’s run towards police with the Charge of the Light Brigade and quoted from Tennyson’s poem.”
Oh dear, when desperate measures call for Tennyson, your client is going down…!
David Gottlieb, his defence counsel, explained that he was using a "Sherlock Holmes" approach, adding: "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."
Have you never watched Star Trek VI?
It was one of Spock's ancestors who said
When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.
"I wouldn't be recommending this if it wasn't the right product for you"
And not just limited to poker.
It is really rhetoric, which with logic and grammar form the three ancient arts of discourse.
I wonder what Hopi Sen would make of this perfect example of 'logorrhea' by the 29th President of the US, Warren G. Harding:
"America's present need is not heroics, but healing; not nostrums, but normalcy; not revolution, but restoration; not agitation, but adjustment; not surgery, but serenity; not the dramatic, but the dispassionate; not experiment, but equipoise; not submergence in internationality, but sustainment in triumphant nationality..."
Harding must have had a terrible hand.
Or was a terrible player. He was fortunate to die when he did.
I wonder what Hopi Sen would make of this perfect example of 'logorrhea' by the 29th President of the US, Warren G. Harding:
"America's present need is not heroics, but healing; not nostrums, but normalcy; not revolution, but restoration; not agitation, but adjustment; not surgery, but serenity; not the dramatic, but the dispassionate; not experiment, but equipoise; not submergence in internationality, but sustainment in triumphant nationality..."
Harding must have had a terrible hand.
It is the speech which prompted McAdoo to claim that Harding's speeches were
"an army of pompous phrases moving across the landscape in search of an idea."
Easy to see that McAdoo was holding a Royal Flush.
H.L. Mencken described Harding's oratory thus:-
“He writes the worst English that I have ever encountered. It reminds me of a string of wet sponges; it reminds me of tattered washing on the line; it reminds me of stale bean soup, of college yells, of dogs barking idiotically through endless nights. It is so bad that a sort of grandeur creeps into it. It drags itself out of the dark abysm of pish, and crawls insanely up the topmost pinnacle of posh. It is rumble and bumble. It is flap and doodle. It is balder and dash."
Presumably in relation to the police officer they charged at with knives drawn, only to both be shot in the leg and arrested. The one of them who testified stated that he at least did it to be shot dead (in battle, as he sees it) and was most surprised to survive. Hence his barrister claiming he never intended to actually hurt the police officer.
Isn't the logical reduction of that pretty much a precise definition of terrorism i.e. causing others to change their behaviour out of fear of what the alleged terrorists were (or were believed to be) doing or about to do. Hence, the police could only be safe if the accused were shot, and they would only be shot if the police were fearful for their safety, and they would only be fearful for their safety if the accused had engaged in activity to make them so.
Perhaps, but remember that you don't find a defendant guilty, you find them guilty as charged. If he's guilty of terrorism offences but not of murder and the charge is murder then he's (in theory) walking out of court a free man.
Now convincing a jury that all of that it true is another story.
Can the judge not tell him to get to the point in his closing speech ? Are they normally this long ? It's ridiculous.
Closing speeches tend to be an hour as a bare minimum, and unless the barrister says something unacceptable (like claiming the jury should consider making a moral call, not a legal one) the judge won't intervene. Like a filibuster, but less exciting.
EDIT: Remember that each defendant in a case gets their own legal team, and be happy only two of them are on trial today. If it was a gang of 6 who ran Lee Rigby down in a minivan...
Anyone here played Avalon/Resistance btw - A very fun game where bluffing is essential without cash. It is perfectly adaptable for playing cards too I think.
Yes, it's a classic game to finish up with at the Meetup board game session (even though it's not a board game) at the Old Star pub in Westminster every Sunday.I recommend those to anyone who likes board games.
Obama is a keen poker player, I believe. I'm a former World and UK champion at the board game Diplomacy (which is not necessarily a good recommendation of character); I play poker too, but only just about break even.
Currently enjoying a game a week of Caverna (dwarves developing farms and caves - the sequel to the smash hit game Agricola) and A Study in Emerald (Sherlock Holmes meets Cthulhu). (One of the pleasures of not being an MP is that I can admit to this, without anyone telling me off for spending an evening NOT solving their problems.)
Anyone here played Avalon/Resistance btw - A very fun game where bluffing is essential without cash. It is perfectly adaptable for playing cards too I think.
Yes, it's a classic game to finish up with at the Meetup board game session (even though it's not a board game) at the Old Star pub in Westminster every Sunday.I recommend those to anyone who likes board games.
Obama is a keen poker player, I believe. I'm a former World and UK champion at the board game Diplomacy (which is not necessarily a good recommendation of character); I play poker too, but only just about break even.
Currently enjoying a game a week of Caverna (dwarves developing farms and caves - the sequel to the smash hit game Agricola) and A Study in Emerald (Sherlock Holmes meets Cthulhu). (One of the pleasures of not being an MP is that I can admit to this, without anyone telling me off for spending an evening NOT solving their problems.)
May you have many more years of such happy evenings Nick!
Can the judge not tell him to get to the point in his closing speech ? Are they normally this long ? It's ridiculous.
Closing speeches tend to be an hour as a bare minimum, and unless the barrister says something unacceptable (like claiming the jury should consider making a moral call, not a legal one) the judge won't intervene. Like a filibuster, but less exciting.
EDIT: Remember that each defendant in a case gets their own legal team, and be happy only two of them are on trial today. If it was a gang of 6 who ran Lee Rigby down in a minivan...
My first (of very few) defence jury speech: "So what does that make my client?" I asked the jury. "Guilty" a nice young lady replied from the second row.
Can the judge not tell him to get to the point in his closing speech ? Are they normally this long ? It's ridiculous.
The cost of sitting tommorow should be borne entirely by Thomas More Chambers if it comes to that.
Judge: "It is now one minute to five o'clock. I would normally adjourn the court until tomorrow before summing up and sending the jury out, but in this case I feel we may be able to complete the proceedings before close of play."
I wonder what Hopi Sen would make of this perfect example of 'logorrhea' by the 29th President of the US, Warren G. Harding:
"America's present need is not heroics, but healing; not nostrums, but normalcy; not revolution, but restoration; not agitation, but adjustment; not surgery, but serenity; not the dramatic, but the dispassionate; not experiment, but equipoise; not submergence in internationality, but sustainment in triumphant nationality..."
Harding must have had a terrible hand.
It is the speech which prompted McAdoo to claim that Harding's speeches were
"an army of pompous phrases moving across the landscape in search of an idea."
Easy to see that McAdoo was holding a Royal Flush.
H.L. Mencken described Harding's oratory thus:-
“He writes the worst English that I have ever encountered. It reminds me of a string of wet sponges; it reminds me of tattered washing on the line; it reminds me of stale bean soup, of college yells, of dogs barking idiotically through endless nights. It is so bad that a sort of grandeur creeps into it. It drags itself out of the dark abysm of pish, and crawls insanely up the topmost pinnacle of posh. It is rumble and bumble. It is flap and doodle. It is balder and dash."
May you have many more years of such happy evenings Nick!
A beautifully double-edged wish! Thank you.
My favourite anecdote of insatiable demands on time was a call that I had from a constituent the evening before I got married.
Constituent: "I've got a problem with my builder, who I think is acting illegally in refusing to repair his shoddy work. Can you look into the exact wording of the law, please?" Me: I'll be glad to, but I'm away on honeymoon for two weeks. I'll check the law for you the day after I get back. Constituent (speaking slowly, as one who explains the obvious to a small child): "You don't understand. You cannot go on honeymoon tomorrow - maybe the day after. First, I need your help to clarify the law."
Currently enjoying a game a week of Caverna (dwarves developing farms and caves - the sequel to the smash hit game Agricola) and A Study in Emerald (Sherlock Holmes meets Cthulhu). (One of the pleasures of not being an MP is that I can admit to this, without anyone telling me off for spending an evening NOT solving their problems.)
Ah, I love Agricola. Such a brilliantly-paced game, where you (at least I...) never seem to be able to do everything I need. Who'd have thought a game about subsistence farming in the middle ages could be so much fun?
I've rather been put off Caverna by the price tag but do you think it's worth the dough, Nick? I guess so, if you're happily playing it every week!
Footfall may be declining in our native supermarkets but the click of heels is certainly being heard in our continental imports:
Supermarkets stocks were registering steep losses on Tuesday afternoon after a report from Kantar Worldpanel revealed that over half the UK shopped in either Aldi or Lidl during the 12 weeks to December 8th for the first time in history.
The consumer knowledge agency said that 50.1% of all British households shopped in discount retail chains during the period compared with 46.1% the year before.
“Both Aldi and Lidl have continued to record double-digit growth and are successfully broadening their shopper base with half of all British households visiting one of them during the latest period," said Chris Longbottom, Director at Kantar Worldpanel.
Aldi's market share rose to a record 4% during the 12-week period, while Lidl's share remained at an all-time high of 3.1%.
Come on. Own up, PBers. Who has bought their Christmas stollen from Aldi this year?
Currently enjoying a game a week of Caverna (dwarves developing farms and caves - the sequel to the smash hit game Agricola) and A Study in Emerald (Sherlock Holmes meets Cthulhu). (One of the pleasures of not being an MP is that I can admit to this, without anyone telling me off for spending an evening NOT solving their problems.)
Ah, I love Agricola. Such a brilliantly-paced game, where you (at least I...) never seem to be able to do everything I need. Who'd have thought a game about subsistence farming in the middle ages could be so much fun?
I've rather been put off Caverna by the price tag but do you think it's worth the dough, Nick? I guess so, if you're happily playing it every week!
Caverna takes Agricola to a new dimension - it's really like playing 3D instead of 2D, since you have to develop a farm, and a cave, and go adventuring, and you can't do all of them at once properly. Some of the features of Agricola have been simplified to compensate (you don't need ovens to cook food, for instance), but there are far too many nice things to do so you're torn between them every turn. It resembles Through the Ages in that way, the online version of which makes a perfect game for a few minutes a day (see http://www.boardgaming-online.com/ )
Footfall may be declining in our native supermarkets but the click of heels is certainly being heard in our continental imports:
Supermarkets stocks were registering steep losses on Tuesday afternoon after a report from Kantar Worldpanel revealed that over half the UK shopped in either Aldi or Lidl during the 12 weeks to December 8th for the first time in history.
The consumer knowledge agency said that 50.1% of all British households shopped in discount retail chains during the period compared with 46.1% the year before.
“Both Aldi and Lidl have continued to record double-digit growth and are successfully broadening their shopper base with half of all British households visiting one of them during the latest period," said Chris Longbottom, Director at Kantar Worldpanel.
Aldi's market share rose to a record 4% during the 12-week period, while Lidl's share remained at an all-time high of 3.1%.
Come on. Own up, PBers. Who has bought their Christmas stollen from Aldi this year?
The best stollen is Lidl's mini stollens.
Lidl has the best chocolate and gingerbread as well.
Aldi does cheap Manuka honey (although like most Manuka honey its likely to be not genuine).
"Mr Gottlieb told the court that trial by jury was 'under threat by never before' and that there have been severe cuts in the budgets of police, prisons and court administration."
What's that got to do with the price of bread.
Utter and complete wanker.
No wonder it is under threat if he can't complete his speech up in such an open and shut case in less than a day.
Footfall may be declining in our native supermarkets but the click of heels is certainly being heard in our continental imports:
Supermarkets stocks were registering steep losses on Tuesday afternoon after a report from Kantar Worldpanel revealed that over half the UK shopped in either Aldi or Lidl during the 12 weeks to December 8th for the first time in history.
The consumer knowledge agency said that 50.1% of all British households shopped in discount retail chains during the period compared with 46.1% the year before.
“Both Aldi and Lidl have continued to record double-digit growth and are successfully broadening their shopper base with half of all British households visiting one of them during the latest period," said Chris Longbottom, Director at Kantar Worldpanel.
Aldi's market share rose to a record 4% during the 12-week period, while Lidl's share remained at an all-time high of 3.1%.
Come on. Own up, PBers. Who has bought their Christmas stollen from Aldi this year?
The best stollen is Lidl's mini stollens.
Lidl has the best chocolate and gingerbread as well.
Aldi does cheap Manuka honey (although like most Manuka honey its likely to be not genuine).
Interesting list, ar.
I have had two versions of mini-stollen in the past few days. One made by a niece and one from Aldi. The niece's version won.
I also have a gingerbread man (unknown provenance) and a bar of Moser Roth chocolate (Aldi again) within arm's reach.
So the only thing missing is the Manuka honey. It's absence must be due to my Cameronian ability to detect and shun the fake.
I like McCain too. It's appropriate that he be shown on PB.com "gambling". But, apart from Lincoln, probably my other all time favourite president is HST from Missouri. This reminds me that I must read up about him. Was he as down to Earth (`I'm from Missouri, show me`) & honest as I have always believed? I must `read up` about him. I can understand playing poker as a temporary release from serious worries---and it's a bit sociable in an aggressive sort of way.
I think I may have noted previously but in the poshest enclaves of Harpenden the only Aldi they know of is the German motor manufacturer !!
Nothing to be ashamed of Jack.
Especially if you have a Mercedes available to sit on the passenger seat.
Funnily enough I'm an Aldi A8 car man myself !!
Seriously we had a poundshop in Harpenden High Street until it closed recently. It must be one of the few areas in the UK to have lost its pound shop, not had them multiplying like rabbits. Mind you, folk were apt to venture in there wearing sunglasses and wigs ..... Oh the shame !!
Wouldn't it be great if the judge in the Lee Rigby murder case managed to find a way of sentencing the two defendants to be tortured everyday for the rest of their lives, and the defence counsel to 10 years in jail for treason / contempt of court / something or the other?
@isam Quite apart from it being completely wrong to torture people, no matter what they have done, why do you want to imprison lawyers for doing their jobs?
@isam Quite apart from it being completely wrong to torture people, no matter what they have done, why do you want to imprison lawyers for doing their jobs?
It being wrong is your opinion, not a fact. I think it is wrong to torture almost anybody, except killers where there is no disputing their guilt. It would act as a deterrent for would be terrorists
@isam Quite apart from it being completely wrong to torture people, no matter what they have done, why do you want to imprison lawyers for doing their jobs?
There are obviously limits to what can be said while the defendants remain in the charge of the jury, but today's proceedings were a disgrace. We have all read the judgment of the recently retired Chief in R v Farooqi & others[2013] EWCA Crim 1649, which should be noted without comment.
We do almost all our shopping at Aldi. Not only is it cheaper, often you get bigger helpings. Can't see myself going back to the big supermarkets anytime soon.
You also get the comedic value of seeing how closely their packaging can mimic branded products without getting them sued.
@isam Quite apart from it being completely wrong to torture people, no matter what they have done, why do you want to imprison lawyers for doing their jobs?
It being wrong is your opinion, not a fact. I think it is wrong to torture almost anybody, except killers where there is no disputing their guilt. It would act as a deterrent for would be terrorists
Defending traitors should be a punishable offence
That's what they do in the countries these Islamic terrorists want the UK to become. Why let them win so easily?
@isam Quite apart from it being completely wrong to torture people, no matter what they have done, why do you want to imprison lawyers for doing their jobs?
It being wrong is your opinion, not a fact. I think it is wrong to torture almost anybody, except killers where there is no disputing their guilt. It would act as a deterrent for would be terrorists
Defending traitors should be a punishable offence
Everyone is entitled to legal representation. The more interesting point in this case (as LIAMT has alluded) is whether this defendant has in effect been deprived of that.
We do almost all our shopping at Aldi. Not only is it cheaper, often you get bigger helpings. Can't see myself going back to the big supermarkets anytime soon.
You also get the comedic value of seeing how closely their packaging can mimic branded products without getting them sued.
I think they still need a little help with their branding. On my last visit I noticed aftershave named Eruption (spotted, not purchased).
Wouldn't it be great if the judge in the Lee Rigby murder case managed to find a way of sentencing the two defendants to be tortured everyday for the rest of their lives, and the defence counsel to 10 years in jail for treason / contempt of court / something or the other?
Your inability to see what is wrong with that sentence should disbar you from any form of public office forever. Possibly the worst thing I have ever seen posted here. And seeing as HD2 used to frequent this board you are up against some stiff opposition.
@isam Quite apart from it being completely wrong to torture people, no matter what they have done, why do you want to imprison lawyers for doing their jobs?
It being wrong is your opinion, not a fact. I think it is wrong to torture almost anybody, except killers where there is no disputing their guilt. It would act as a deterrent for would be terrorists
Defending traitors should be a punishable offence
That has to be the worst bit of trolling I've seen on here in a long time.
By your logic the defending counsels in the likes of the Birmingham Six trials would have been punished.
@isam Quite apart from it being completely wrong to torture people, no matter what they have done, why do you want to imprison lawyers for doing their jobs?
Defending traitors should be a punishable offence
Does that include accused traitors who are in fact innocent . You are a fool !!
@isam Quite apart from it being completely wrong to torture people, no matter what they have done, why do you want to imprison lawyers for doing their jobs?
Defending traitors should be a punishable offence
Does that include accused traitors who are in fact innocent . You are a fool !!
On reflection I think he's drunk. It's Christmas after all.
The argument that 'Guilty men don't deserve a defense' misses the wider context. The reason that Lee Rigby's killers (alleged murderers) should get a defense isn't because they deserve it, most likely. They are almost certainly guilty, and their defense can almost certainly therefore only get a guilty man off a crime he committed. But this (tiny, since their case is so hopeless) harm is massively outweighed by the times the apparently guilty man IS actually innocent. Because it would be so bad to send innocent people to jail we must take on the chin that some guilty ones will get off.
Maybe these two don't deserve legal help, but we have to give it to them anyway so we don't withold it from innocent people who have been wrongfully charged.
EDIT: Of course, there is a slim chance that these two men are in fact the innocent men whom I'm describing. I'm not saying they are guilty, just that even if they are (and the evidence is pretty strong) they should still have a defense. Because this trial can't be isolated, we have to have the same rules for everyone. So if we want miscarriages of justice to be avoided, we need to give guilty men and women proper lawyers too.
I like McCain too. It's appropriate that he be shown on PB.com "gambling". But, apart from Lincoln, probably my other all time favourite president is HST from Missouri. This reminds me that I must read up about him. Was he as down to Earth (`I'm from Missouri, show me`) & honest as I have always believed? I must `read up` about him. I can understand playing poker as a temporary release from serious worries---and it's a bit sociable in an aggressive sort of way.
I understand that he went to the funerals of past, but disgraced associates, on the grounds that they had always been good to him, in bad days as well as good, and he was not going to renounce his friendship. Or something very close to that.
Comments
lucy manning @lucymanning 11s
Woolwich defence for Adebolajo called him "most law abiding terrorist in history" & said this wasnt most sadistic callous murder in history.
I love his response about losing thousands of $$$
You have been warned.
Though he is the man who called his wife a trollop and the big naughty c word.
Damn that push poll in The South that destroyed his primary chance in 2000
I'm rolling on with the twitter sarcasm/abuse btw:
JimmyB @Pulpstar 2m
@lucymanning I'm sure Hitler didn't break any of Germany's laws, or Stalin Russia's or Vlad III Walachia's laws seeing as they made em.
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JimmyB @Pulpstar now
@lucymanning One could probably argue that being gassed isn't quite as bad as being flayed or boiled alive either.
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JimmyB @Pulpstar now
@lucymanning Heard some ludicrous defences in the past but this one takes the biscuit !
"Only an idiot fights a war on two fronts. Only the heir to the throne of the kingdom of idiots would fight a war on twelve fronts."
Honestly declaring war on America whilst fighting the UK and The USSR was the most idiotic strategic move since the Carthiginians decided those Romans were a bit rubbish.
Made FDR's sell of Germany First to the US population a lot easier.
John McCain is a hoot and would have been a good President. He lost with a great deal more grace than Romney, he was a million times funnier and gave more than one hint that he was proud of a country that would elect a black American as President.
He also described the attempted murder charge against Adebolajo as "possibly most ridiculous charge ever put before a judge and jury in the history of this country."
The barrister then compared Adebolajo’s run towards police with the Charge of the Light Brigade and quoted from Tennyson’s poem.”
Oh dear, when desperate measures call for Tennyson, your client is going down…!
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/lee-rigby-murder-trial-live-2935951
"I don't want to interrupt, but..."
"I don't like to tell tales, but..."
"I wouldn't be recommending this if it wasn't the right product for you"
3:16 pm: "Mr Gottlieb asked the jury to watch the footage of Adebolajo’s ‘infamous rant’ without any sound.
He said: "It is actually positively Shakespearean. It is like a scene out of Macbeth, his hands are steeped in blood."
Good grief - Next he’ll be likening the autopsy report to a Stephen King novel.
Lull your opponents into a false sense of security by shouting out "SNAP!" on the first hand.
I'm keeping my nephews away from the gun room over Christmas !!
@paulwaugh: Boris also sd that Cameron should stop 'pussyfooting around' and 'fannying' around' on Heathrow. #onetrackmind?
"Geeore fannying around"
When I'm in proper Yorkshireman mode/accent.
It is really rhetoric, which with logic and grammar form the three ancient arts of discourse.
I wonder what Hopi Sen would make of this perfect example of 'logorrhea' by the 29th President of the US, Warren G. Harding:
"America's present need is not heroics, but healing; not nostrums, but normalcy; not revolution, but restoration; not agitation, but adjustment; not surgery, but serenity; not the dramatic, but the dispassionate; not experiment, but equipoise; not submergence in internationality, but sustainment in triumphant nationality..."
Harding must have had a terrible hand.
It is the speech which prompted McAdoo to claim that Harding's speeches were
"an army of pompous phrases moving across the landscape in search of an idea."
Easy to see that McAdoo was holding a Royal Flush.
David Gottlieb, his defence counsel, explained that he was using a "Sherlock Holmes" approach, adding: "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."
"Greece out of recession next year, says central bank
13.27 The debt-laden country has said it will exit recession next year after six consecutive years of contraction, according to its central bank.
In its latest forecasts the Bank of Greece said:
Quote 2014 will be the first year of positive growth, after six consecutive years of recession.
The Greek government has predicted the economy will grow by 0.5pc in 2014."
A little unfair, we have all done it but that was a good one.
It was one of Spock's ancestors who said
When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.
Can Sweeney get the black cap out then ?
He sure knows how to press those buttons.
Now convincing a jury that all of that it true is another story.
The cost of sitting tommorow should be borne entirely by Thomas More Chambers if it comes to that.
EDIT: Remember that each defendant in a case gets their own legal team, and be happy only two of them are on trial today. If it was a gang of 6 who ran Lee Rigby down in a minivan...
Obama is a keen poker player, I believe. I'm a former World and UK champion at the board game Diplomacy (which is not necessarily a good recommendation of character); I play poker too, but only just about break even.
Currently enjoying a game a week of Caverna (dwarves developing farms and caves - the sequel to the smash hit game Agricola) and A Study in Emerald (Sherlock Holmes meets Cthulhu). (One of the pleasures of not being an MP is that I can admit to this, without anyone telling me off for spending an evening NOT solving their problems.)
Con 2/5
LD 5/2
Lab 8/1
UKIP 40/1
Yeah gotta laugh.
Bridge is my game. 30 or so years ago I used to be a big tournament player. I play for peanuts now but occasionally I play for walnuts.
That is the job of the Probation Service.
My favourite anecdote of insatiable demands on time was a call that I had from a constituent the evening before I got married.
Constituent: "I've got a problem with my builder, who I think is acting illegally in refusing to repair his shoddy work. Can you look into the exact wording of the law, please?"
Me: I'll be glad to, but I'm away on honeymoon for two weeks. I'll check the law for you the day after I get back.
Constituent (speaking slowly, as one who explains the obvious to a small child): "You don't understand. You cannot go on honeymoon tomorrow - maybe the day after. First, I need your help to clarify the law."
"Sand in the Machine: Problems in defending innocent people accused of terrorist offences in the U.K."
"Tears of laughter"
I am told that, though he is a late starter to Bridge, he is making impressive progress.
He added: "What I have been trying to say, clumsily and imperfectly as it may be, is that you do have a choice. You are free to acquit.”
Well, the court appears to made up of 12 good men, a judge - and at least one idiot imho.
I've rather been put off Caverna by the price tag but do you think it's worth the dough, Nick? I guess so, if you're happily playing it every week!
Supermarkets stocks were registering steep losses on Tuesday afternoon after a report from Kantar Worldpanel revealed that over half the UK shopped in either Aldi or Lidl during the 12 weeks to December 8th for the first time in history.
The consumer knowledge agency said that 50.1% of all British households shopped in discount retail chains during the period compared with 46.1% the year before.
“Both Aldi and Lidl have continued to record double-digit growth and are successfully broadening their shopper base with half of all British households visiting one of them during the latest period," said Chris Longbottom, Director at Kantar Worldpanel.
Aldi's market share rose to a record 4% during the 12-week period, while Lidl's share remained at an all-time high of 3.1%.
Come on. Own up, PBers. Who has bought their Christmas stollen from Aldi this year?
http://www.boardgaming-online.com/ )
Does he, or anyone else for that matter, know what the outcome of this case was:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2191075/Racist-rant-London-bus-Police-investigate-outburst-passenger-posted-YouTube.html
Lidl has the best chocolate and gingerbread as well.
Aldi does cheap Manuka honey (although like most Manuka honey its likely to be not genuine).
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/steerpike/2013/12/exclusive-cameron-the-great-pm-is-related-to-catherine-ii/
Nothing wrong with a chap being directly related to Catherine the Great.
What's that got to do with the price of bread.
Utter and complete wanker.
No wonder it is under threat if he can't complete his speech up in such an open and shut case in less than a day.
I have had two versions of mini-stollen in the past few days. One made by a niece and one from Aldi. The niece's version won.
I also have a gingerbread man (unknown provenance) and a bar of Moser Roth chocolate (Aldi again) within arm's reach.
So the only thing missing is the Manuka honey. It's absence must be due to my Cameronian ability to detect and shun the fake.
Note to @antifrank
Claims of buying at Aldi in Hungary gains as many points as shopping in a poundshop in the UK.
Are you thinking of a horse?
"Claims of buying at Aldi in Hungary gains as many points as shopping in a poundshop in the UK."
Yes, I've heard of these poundshops. Isn't it where you place a pound coin in a slot in exchange for temporary use of a mobile mesh trolley ??
Sounds like awfully jolly fun.
Especially if you have a Mercedes available to sit on the passenger seat.
Seriously we had a poundshop in Harpenden High Street until it closed recently. It must be one of the few areas in the UK to have lost its pound shop, not had them multiplying like rabbits. Mind you, folk were apt to venture in there wearing sunglasses and wigs ..... Oh the shame !!
Lord Ashcroft @LordAshcroft 5m
Not saying UKIP are comfort polling, but most pollsters don't use Survation's methods for a reason. A reminder: http://bit.ly/1kSlPZY
Defending traitors should be a punishable offence
You also get the comedic value of seeing how closely their packaging can mimic branded products without getting them sued.
Possibly the worst thing I have ever seen posted here. And seeing as HD2 used to frequent this board you are up against some stiff opposition.
The humble vegetable is under threat from a new and virulent form of potato blight
By your logic the defending counsels in the likes of the Birmingham Six trials would have been punished.
You are a fool !!
Maybe these two don't deserve legal help, but we have to give it to them anyway so we don't withold it from innocent people who have been wrongfully charged.
EDIT: Of course, there is a slim chance that these two men are in fact the innocent men whom I'm describing. I'm not saying they are guilty, just that even if they are (and the evidence is pretty strong) they should still have a defense. Because this trial can't be isolated, we have to have the same rules for everyone. So if we want miscarriages of justice to be avoided, we need to give guilty men and women proper lawyers too.