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  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313

    LadyG said:

    This is encouraging (even if you hate Boris, he is our PM).

    Bojo looks completely returned to his old self. Relaxed, witty, healthy, a sparkle in the eye: entirely healthy and rested (especially rested, given that he is the 56 year old dad of a newborn)

    This fits with the profile of Covid sufferers. It hits you for quite a while - but you nearly always DO get better in the end.

    https://twitter.com/timesradio/status/1277522387844632576?s=20

    Indeed. The revival of his form and humour will be a great disappointment to those who have so assiduously concern-trolled his health in recent months: 'Ooh, he's a bit out of breath isn't he? Getting a bit tired by the end of the press conference, isn't he? Oooh...'.

    Not any more. A revivified Boris with 4 clear years of power will be a delightful sight to behold :smile:
    He is still VERY fat. And he is still useless. His form is exactly what it always was - incompetent. It is a cringing sight to behold. A clown, completely devoid of leadership capability in our most senior executive position.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,528
    FF43 said:

    DavidL said:

    LadyG said:

    FPT DavidL

    "There's a large leisure and tourism industry absolutely desperate for business in Scotland. Many Brits are looking at what is now called a staycation (which used to be just staying at home) holidaying in the UK. There is a chance here to save tens of thousands of jobs in areas like the Highlands with little else.

    And not being satisfied with giving their competitors in the Lake District or the South West a two week start we have this kind of crap? It's just infuriating. Economic vandalism is too kind a description."


    *****



    I know quite a few hoteliers, restaurateurs, and the like in Scotland, esp the Highlands and Islands.

    I was planning a professional trip to Skye this summer as lockdown eases, but the locals are adamant that no one must come to Skye, for many months, to keep the virus out. They're not especially keen on Glaswegians, let alone the English. And they really mean it, they won't cooperate. Or so I am told.

    All the people employed directly in tourism are tearing their hair out, they know how much tourism means to the Skye economy: it is hugely important. Without it, Skye basically goes bust.

    I guess when furlough ends and the jobs go with it, that might focus minds.

    A good friend of mine is the principal shareholder of a business with a number of hotels in and around Inverness. If they don't open soon they don't open at all. The Scottish schools are already out and many Scots go on holiday as soon as that happens before the Sassenachs drive up the prices!
    I think there's a trend away from hotels to self-catering that the CV19 epidemic accelerates. There's a role for business travel, which itself will be suppressed in the next year or so, and for wedding venues. The concept of hotels as a leisure destination is on the way out, unfortunately.

    Notwithstanding the necessity of working out a smart form of semi-lockdown, which will be our way of life for the medium term.
    How is self catering going to work post CV19? You are going to need more time between stays for a "deep clean". Hotels can rotate the rooms in use.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,805
    edited June 2020
    Trump not to be the Rep nominee is edging Up. Had a back value of 1.11 this morning when I first considered hedging my 1.07 lay. Now 1.14.


    Edited extra bit: that is to say that the odds on him being the nominee are lengthening.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    tlg86 said:

    Starmer is 57. If he achieves a result close to that achieved by Jeremy Corbyn in 2017 (i.e. Tories close to a majority and still in power), does Starmer remain Leader of the Labour Party until the election after that?

    Good question, I think probably not. He wouldn't want to be 67 and facing the election after next with a five year plan for government that would take him to 72.

    More likely he plays the Kinnock role of sorting the internal party out, then makes way for someone a decade younger after the next election.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    LadyG said:

    This is encouraging (even if you hate Boris, he is our PM).

    Bojo looks completely returned to his old self. Relaxed, witty, healthy, a sparkle in the eye: entirely healthy and rested (especially rested, given that he is the 56 year old dad of a newborn)

    This fits with the profile of Covid sufferers. It hits you for quite a while - but you nearly always DO get better in the end.

    https://twitter.com/timesradio/status/1277522387844632576?s=20

    Indeed. The revival of his form and humour will be a great disappointment to those who have so assiduously concern-trolled his health in recent months: 'Ooh, he's a bit out of breath isn't he? Getting a bit tired by the end of the press conference, isn't he? Oooh...'.

    Not any more. A revivified Boris with 4 clear years of power will be a delightful sight to behold :smile:
    He is still VERY fat. And he is still useless. His form is exactly what it always was - incompetent. It is a cringing sight to behold. A clown, completely devoid of leadership capability in our most senior executive position.
    He doesn't look VERY fat. You clearly haven't seen very fat individuals!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    edited June 2020
    LadyG said:

    nichomar said:

    LadyG said:

    IanB2 said:

    LadyG said:

    This is encouraging (even if you hate Boris, he is our PM).

    Bojo looks completely returned to his old self. Relaxed, witty, healthy, a sparkle in the eye: entirely healthy and rested (especially rested, given that he is the 56 year old dad of a newborn)

    This fits with the profile of Covid sufferers. It hits you for quite a while - but you nearly always DO get better in the end.

    https://twitter.com/timesradio/status/1277522387844632576?s=20

    Puff.
    But, it's true. He has that mischievous glint in his eye, which is always a sign he is on form.

    It's been notably absent of late, to the extent I wondered if it would ever return and he might retire very soon.
    Mischievous glint? What have you been drinking?
    I accept there are some on here whose visceral dislike of the PM would lead them to believe he is ginger haired, eight foot tall, of Amerindian descent, and is entirely infertile, if it confirmed their dislike of him, but to my studiedly neutral eye, he looks like a healthy man again. With his old charm returned (even if the charm only works on some).

    We are free to disagree, but I am entirely right.
    S'ok - it's totally understandable that you should be so taken. You are the Antonia de Sancha of PB. No matter how obnoxious, you are intoxicated by raw power and the position of authority.

    Blue is indeed the colour.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    FF43 said:

    DavidL said:

    LadyG said:

    FPT DavidL

    "There's a large leisure and tourism industry absolutely desperate for business in Scotland. Many Brits are looking at what is now called a staycation (which used to be just staying at home) holidaying in the UK. There is a chance here to save tens of thousands of jobs in areas like the Highlands with little else.

    And not being satisfied with giving their competitors in the Lake District or the South West a two week start we have this kind of crap? It's just infuriating. Economic vandalism is too kind a description."


    *****



    I know quite a few hoteliers, restaurateurs, and the like in Scotland, esp the Highlands and Islands.

    I was planning a professional trip to Skye this summer as lockdown eases, but the locals are adamant that no one must come to Skye, for many months, to keep the virus out. They're not especially keen on Glaswegians, let alone the English. And they really mean it, they won't cooperate. Or so I am told.

    All the people employed directly in tourism are tearing their hair out, they know how much tourism means to the Skye economy: it is hugely important. Without it, Skye basically goes bust.

    I guess when furlough ends and the jobs go with it, that might focus minds.

    A good friend of mine is the principal shareholder of a business with a number of hotels in and around Inverness. If they don't open soon they don't open at all. The Scottish schools are already out and many Scots go on holiday as soon as that happens before the Sassenachs drive up the prices!
    I think there's a trend away from hotels to self-catering that the CV19 epidemic accelerates. There's a role for business travel, which itself will be suppressed in the next year or so, and for wedding venues. The concept of hotels as a leisure destination is on the way out, unfortunately.

    Notwithstanding the necessity of working out a smart form of semi-lockdown, which will be our way of life for the medium term.
    How is self catering going to work post CV19? You are going to need more time between stays for a "deep clean". Hotels can rotate the rooms in use.
    That is exactly the plan. An entire day between stays to do a deep clean.

    They will be able to afford it. Self catering is going to be a boom industry for quite a while, they are already reporting a massive surge in bookings
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    RobD said:

    LadyG said:

    This is encouraging (even if you hate Boris, he is our PM).

    Bojo looks completely returned to his old self. Relaxed, witty, healthy, a sparkle in the eye: entirely healthy and rested (especially rested, given that he is the 56 year old dad of a newborn)

    This fits with the profile of Covid sufferers. It hits you for quite a while - but you nearly always DO get better in the end.

    https://twitter.com/timesradio/status/1277522387844632576?s=20

    Indeed. The revival of his form and humour will be a great disappointment to those who have so assiduously concern-trolled his health in recent months: 'Ooh, he's a bit out of breath isn't he? Getting a bit tired by the end of the press conference, isn't he? Oooh...'.

    Not any more. A revivified Boris with 4 clear years of power will be a delightful sight to behold :smile:
    He is still VERY fat. And he is still useless. His form is exactly what it always was - incompetent. It is a cringing sight to behold. A clown, completely devoid of leadership capability in our most senior executive position.
    He doesn't look VERY fat. You clearly haven't seen very fat individuals!
    He's definitely gone from clinically obese to merely overweight.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,466

    FF43 said:

    DavidL said:

    LadyG said:

    FPT DavidL

    "There's a large leisure and tourism industry absolutely desperate for business in Scotland. Many Brits are looking at what is now called a staycation (which used to be just staying at home) holidaying in the UK. There is a chance here to save tens of thousands of jobs in areas like the Highlands with little else.

    And not being satisfied with giving their competitors in the Lake District or the South West a two week start we have this kind of crap? It's just infuriating. Economic vandalism is too kind a description."


    *****



    I know quite a few hoteliers, restaurateurs, and the like in Scotland, esp the Highlands and Islands.

    I was planning a professional trip to Skye this summer as lockdown eases, but the locals are adamant that no one must come to Skye, for many months, to keep the virus out. They're not especially keen on Glaswegians, let alone the English. And they really mean it, they won't cooperate. Or so I am told.

    All the people employed directly in tourism are tearing their hair out, they know how much tourism means to the Skye economy: it is hugely important. Without it, Skye basically goes bust.

    I guess when furlough ends and the jobs go with it, that might focus minds.

    A good friend of mine is the principal shareholder of a business with a number of hotels in and around Inverness. If they don't open soon they don't open at all. The Scottish schools are already out and many Scots go on holiday as soon as that happens before the Sassenachs drive up the prices!
    I think there's a trend away from hotels to self-catering that the CV19 epidemic accelerates. There's a role for business travel, which itself will be suppressed in the next year or so, and for wedding venues. The concept of hotels as a leisure destination is on the way out, unfortunately.

    Notwithstanding the necessity of working out a smart form of semi-lockdown, which will be our way of life for the medium term.
    How is self catering going to work post CV19? You are going to need more time between stays for a "deep clean". Hotels can rotate the rooms in use.
    Our booking in August in Devon, where we've stayed before, now has a significantly later check in (by 3 hours). So I imagine a much more thorough cleaning. We will also wipe down when we get there. Not too hard.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    A PB post about sub-samples? I hope the author realises that he runs the risk of being blocked. Oh... wait a minute...
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    edited June 2020

    FF43 said:

    DavidL said:

    LadyG said:

    FPT DavidL

    "There's a large leisure and tourism industry absolutely desperate for business in Scotland. Many Brits are looking at what is now called a staycation (which used to be just staying at home) holidaying in the UK. There is a chance here to save tens of thousands of jobs in areas like the Highlands with little else.

    And not being satisfied with giving their competitors in the Lake District or the South West a two week start we have this kind of crap? It's just infuriating. Economic vandalism is too kind a description."


    *****



    I know quite a few hoteliers, restaurateurs, and the like in Scotland, esp the Highlands and Islands.

    I was planning a professional trip to Skye this summer as lockdown eases, but the locals are adamant that no one must come to Skye, for many months, to keep the virus out. They're not especially keen on Glaswegians, let alone the English. And they really mean it, they won't cooperate. Or so I am told.

    All the people employed directly in tourism are tearing their hair out, they know how much tourism means to the Skye economy: it is hugely important. Without it, Skye basically goes bust.

    I guess when furlough ends and the jobs go with it, that might focus minds.

    A good friend of mine is the principal shareholder of a business with a number of hotels in and around Inverness. If they don't open soon they don't open at all. The Scottish schools are already out and many Scots go on holiday as soon as that happens before the Sassenachs drive up the prices!
    I think there's a trend away from hotels to self-catering that the CV19 epidemic accelerates. There's a role for business travel, which itself will be suppressed in the next year or so, and for wedding venues. The concept of hotels as a leisure destination is on the way out, unfortunately.

    Notwithstanding the necessity of working out a smart form of semi-lockdown, which will be our way of life for the medium term.
    How is self catering going to work post CV19? You are going to need more time between stays for a "deep clean". Hotels can rotate the rooms in use.
    Our booking in August in Devon, where we've stayed before, now has a significantly later check in (by 3 hours). So I imagine a much more thorough cleaning. We will also wipe down when we get there. Not too hard.
    Also, there is increasing evidence the virus is less of a danger on surfaces than first thought. Still a risk, but a low one.

    It really is heavy indoor breathing that's the killer, and any body fluids. Bad news for church choirs and the porn industry


    "From these studies, one thing is clear: The main way people are getting sick with SARS-CoV-2 is from respiratory droplets spreading between people in close quarters. The risk of catching the coronavirus, simply put, “is breathing in everybody’s breath,” says Charles Haas, an environmental engineer at Drexel University. Droplets fly from people’s mouths and noses when they breathe, talk, or sneeze. Other people can breathe them in. That’s the main risk, and that’s why face masks are an essential precaution (they help stop the droplets from spewing far from a person’s mouth or nose).

    "The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) emphasizes the risk of close contact over other modes of transmission. “The virus does not spread easily in other ways,” the CDC writes. It’s still possible that a person can catch it from touching a contaminated surface (more on that below.). But it’s “not thought to be the main way the virus spreads,” the CDC states."

    https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2020/5/22/21265180/cdc-coronavirus-surfaces-social-distancing-guidelines-covid-19-risks
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599

    FF43 said:

    DavidL said:

    LadyG said:

    FPT DavidL

    "There's a large leisure and tourism industry absolutely desperate for business in Scotland. Many Brits are looking at what is now called a staycation (which used to be just staying at home) holidaying in the UK. There is a chance here to save tens of thousands of jobs in areas like the Highlands with little else.

    And not being satisfied with giving their competitors in the Lake District or the South West a two week start we have this kind of crap? It's just infuriating. Economic vandalism is too kind a description."


    *****



    I know quite a few hoteliers, restaurateurs, and the like in Scotland, esp the Highlands and Islands.

    I was planning a professional trip to Skye this summer as lockdown eases, but the locals are adamant that no one must come to Skye, for many months, to keep the virus out. They're not especially keen on Glaswegians, let alone the English. And they really mean it, they won't cooperate. Or so I am told.

    All the people employed directly in tourism are tearing their hair out, they know how much tourism means to the Skye economy: it is hugely important. Without it, Skye basically goes bust.

    I guess when furlough ends and the jobs go with it, that might focus minds.

    A good friend of mine is the principal shareholder of a business with a number of hotels in and around Inverness. If they don't open soon they don't open at all. The Scottish schools are already out and many Scots go on holiday as soon as that happens before the Sassenachs drive up the prices!
    I think there's a trend away from hotels to self-catering that the CV19 epidemic accelerates. There's a role for business travel, which itself will be suppressed in the next year or so, and for wedding venues. The concept of hotels as a leisure destination is on the way out, unfortunately.

    Notwithstanding the necessity of working out a smart form of semi-lockdown, which will be our way of life for the medium term.
    How is self catering going to work post CV19? You are going to need more time between stays for a "deep clean". Hotels can rotate the rooms in use.
    Hotels in my part of the world reopened a couple of weeks ago. They've stripped everything out of the rooms (pictures, rugs, menus etc) and are leaving rooms empty for three days between guests, after deep cleaning. It's a major cost to the hotels, but has so far avoided virus hotspots.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,905
    nichomar said:

    LadyG said:

    nichomar said:

    LadyG said:

    IanB2 said:

    LadyG said:

    This is encouraging (even if you hate Boris, he is our PM).

    Bojo looks completely returned to his old self. Relaxed, witty, healthy, a sparkle in the eye: entirely healthy and rested (especially rested, given that he is the 56 year old dad of a newborn)

    This fits with the profile of Covid sufferers. It hits you for quite a while - but you nearly always DO get better in the end.

    https://twitter.com/timesradio/status/1277522387844632576?s=20

    Puff.
    But, it's true. He has that mischievous glint in his eye, which is always a sign he is on form.

    It's been notably absent of late, to the extent I wondered if it would ever return and he might retire very soon.
    Mischievous glint? What have you been drinking?
    I accept there are some on here whose visceral dislike of the PM would lead them to believe he is ginger haired, eight foot tall, of Amerindian descent, and is entirely infertile, if it confirmed their dislike of him, but to my studiedly neutral eye, he looks like a healthy man again. With his old charm returned (even if the charm only works on some).

    We are free to disagree, but I am entirely right.
    Of course you are right there is no room for self doubt.
    So much so that you could even be Boris Johnson imself. But we must not speculate.
  • "The best person for the job" is conveniently ignored because Brexit. Of course, hypocrisy is the Brexiteer art.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    ClippP said:

    nichomar said:

    LadyG said:

    nichomar said:

    LadyG said:

    IanB2 said:

    LadyG said:

    This is encouraging (even if you hate Boris, he is our PM).

    Bojo looks completely returned to his old self. Relaxed, witty, healthy, a sparkle in the eye: entirely healthy and rested (especially rested, given that he is the 56 year old dad of a newborn)

    This fits with the profile of Covid sufferers. It hits you for quite a while - but you nearly always DO get better in the end.

    https://twitter.com/timesradio/status/1277522387844632576?s=20

    Puff.
    But, it's true. He has that mischievous glint in his eye, which is always a sign he is on form.

    It's been notably absent of late, to the extent I wondered if it would ever return and he might retire very soon.
    Mischievous glint? What have you been drinking?
    I accept there are some on here whose visceral dislike of the PM would lead them to believe he is ginger haired, eight foot tall, of Amerindian descent, and is entirely infertile, if it confirmed their dislike of him, but to my studiedly neutral eye, he looks like a healthy man again. With his old charm returned (even if the charm only works on some).

    We are free to disagree, but I am entirely right.
    Of course you are right there is no room for self doubt.
    So much so that you could even be Boris Johnson imself. But we must not speculate.

    Bene dicere autem, si non esset mortuus esset admonitus, ut verbis: Nolo eam?
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,914
    Floater said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The mayor of Leicester said on Radio 4's lunchtime news that the number of cases may be going up because they're doing more testing.

    I think I heard that before from Trump - and it was derided.
    Quite rightly - if we stop testing the number of cases won't drop to zero, it will increase but we won't know about it for a while.
    I feel a bit embarassed about stating the bleedin obvious which I'm sure everyone knows, even Trump and the Mayor of Leicester.
    https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/03/25/821716942/fact-check-testing-should-take-place-wherever-there-are-cases-despite-trumps-vie?t=1593440233843
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    TOPPING said:

    Boris looks like he just swallowed Michael Fabricant.

    That conjures up a most unwelcome scenario.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited June 2020
    DavidL said:


    His time as SoS for Energy and Climate change seemed to achieve absolutely nothing in terms of securing our energy production, did quite a lot to encourage the off-shoring of manufacturing and generally seemed to make it more difficult to make things in the UK.
    ...

    That's not quite true. He got the Smart Meter rollout going.

    Unfortunately he got it going in a completely daft form, so that the 'smart' meters stop sending readings in if you change supplier. They are all having to be updated or replaced.
  • NevaNeva Posts: 14
    Trump is scheduled to appear at Mount Rushmore in North Dakota on Friday, the eve of Independence Day. An 11-year ban on fireworks there has been lifted specially.

    According to the Washington Post,

    "Neither federal nor state officials have imposed social distancing requirements as part of the gathering. The state tourism department, which is distributing 7,500 tickets for the event, has estimated that it has had requests for at least 125,000."

    Only an eighth of a million this time? TikTok been down or what?
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    Today's UK death toll - 25 - is the second lowest since mid March.

    The number of new cases, 815, is likewise the second lowest since March 21
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599

    https://twitter.com/BBCBreakfast/status/1277556165040148485

    As the cranky mob hate this, it must mean it's a great thing to have said

    He did a good job of avoiding the massive elephant trap there.

    It's possible to be both against racism, and also not supportive of a somewhat shadowy organisation that's taken to publishing anti-Semitic conspiracy theories in recent days.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370

    Floater said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The mayor of Leicester said on Radio 4's lunchtime news that the number of cases may be going up because they're doing more testing.

    I think I heard that before from Trump - and it was derided.
    Quite rightly - if we stop testing the number of cases won't drop to zero, it will increase but we won't know about it for a while.
    I feel a bit embarassed about stating the bleedin obvious which I'm sure everyone knows, even Trump and the Mayor of Leicester.
    https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/03/25/821716942/fact-check-testing-should-take-place-wherever-there-are-cases-despite-trumps-vie?t=1593440233843
    Reporting delays are still news to many, allegedly informed people.

    I presume what the Mayor of Leicester was implying, was that the increase in *positives* might be down to an increase in testing.

    The following is a bit of a guesstimate (assumes a steady ratio of tests to people tested), for the UK.

    image
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    "The best person for the job" is conveniently ignored because Brexit. Of course, hypocrisy is the Brexiteer art.
    Think of it as positive discrimination to make the civil service reflect the country at large.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Off topic - just heard the news that the Mississippi Legislature has voted to remove the Confederate battle flag from the canton of the MS state flag. The bill passed in the state house 9-23 and in the state senate 37-14, and the governor has already said he will sign it into law.

    The new flag design, which will be chosen by a special state commission and include the words "In God We Trust" will be submitted to Mississippi voters for approval in a referendum on this November's general election.

    Clearly this vote will be a major hurdle; note that in 2001 a state voter referendum voted 2 to 1 for keeping the Confederate Flag on the state flag.

    But as someone once said, the times they are a changing. Amen to that, sisters and brothers!

    GLORY GLORY HALLELUJAH!!!! HIS TRUTH IS MARCHING ON!!!!
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    RobD said:

    "The best person for the job" is conveniently ignored because Brexit. Of course, hypocrisy is the Brexiteer art.
    Think of it as positive discrimination to make the civil service reflect the country at large.
    As long as it’s 52/48
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    RobD said:

    "The best person for the job" is conveniently ignored because Brexit. Of course, hypocrisy is the Brexiteer art.
    Think of it as positive discrimination to make the civil service reflect the country at large.
    Or maybe affirmative action for an unfairly oppressed section of society. We could call it Brexiteers Lives Matter.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:
    Old King Cole mentions Magic Money Tree, and in the very next post HY gives us yet another daft suggestion for spaffing taxpayers’ money up the wall.

    I am old enough to remember when the Conservative Party prided itself on fiscal responsibility. Now it’s all F*ck Business and Ra Ra Ra Range Rovers All Round.
    Although it will never be admitted, everything is being sacrificed on the altar of Brexit.
    Including the Conservative Party.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862

    DavidL said:


    His time as SoS for Energy and Climate change seemed to achieve absolutely nothing in terms of securing our energy production, did quite a lot to encourage the off-shoring of manufacturing and generally seemed to make it more difficult to make things in the UK.
    ...

    That's not quite true. He got the Smart Meter rollout going.

    Unfortunately he got it going in a completely daft form, so that the 'smart' meters stop sending readings in if you change supplier. They are all having to be updated or replaced.
    Not sure that diminishes my point all that much....
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    nichomar said:

    RobD said:

    "The best person for the job" is conveniently ignored because Brexit. Of course, hypocrisy is the Brexiteer art.
    Think of it as positive discrimination to make the civil service reflect the country at large.
    As long as it’s 52/48
    What fraction of top mandarins do you think are Brexiteers at the moment?
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    Off topic - just heard the news that the Mississippi Legislature has voted to remove the Confederate battle flag from the canton of the MS state flag. The bill passed in the state house 9-23 and in the state senate 37-14, and the governor has already said he will sign it into law.

    The new flag design, which will be chosen by a special state commission and include the words "In God We Trust" will be submitted to Mississippi voters for approval in a referendum on this November's general election.

    Clearly this vote will be a major hurdle; note that in 2001 a state voter referendum voted 2 to 1 for keeping the Confederate Flag on the state flag.

    But as someone once said, the times they are a changing. Amen to that, sisters and brothers!

    GLORY GLORY HALLELUJAH!!!! HIS TRUTH IS MARCHING ON!!!!

    I was utterly gobsmacked to discover Mississippi still HAD this emblem on its flag, only the other day

    I don't agree with wild illegal statue toppling, but egregious symbols of the slave-owning Confederacy, on a state flag??? Bonkers.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,905
    LadyG said:

    ClippP said:

    nichomar said:

    LadyG said:

    nichomar said:

    LadyG said:

    IanB2 said:

    LadyG said:

    This is encouraging (even if you hate Boris, he is our PM).

    Bojo looks completely returned to his old self. Relaxed, witty, healthy, a sparkle in the eye: entirely healthy and rested (especially rested, given that he is the 56 year old dad of a newborn)

    This fits with the profile of Covid sufferers. It hits you for quite a while - but you nearly always DO get better in the end.

    https://twitter.com/timesradio/status/1277522387844632576?s=20

    Puff.
    But, it's true. He has that mischievous glint in his eye, which is always a sign he is on form.

    It's been notably absent of late, to the extent I wondered if it would ever return and he might retire very soon.
    Mischievous glint? What have you been drinking?
    I accept there are some on here whose visceral dislike of the PM would lead them to believe he is ginger haired, eight foot tall, of Amerindian descent, and is entirely infertile, if it confirmed their dislike of him, but to my studiedly neutral eye, he looks like a healthy man again. With his old charm returned (even if the charm only works on some).

    We are free to disagree, but I am entirely right.
    Of course you are right there is no room for self doubt.
    So much so that you could even be Boris Johnson imself. But we must not speculate.
    Bene dicere autem, si non esset mortuus esset admonitus, ut verbis: Nolo eam?
    Crickey! Nobody ever said that to me before. But then the Romans never spoke like that.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,914
    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Starmer is 57. If he achieves a result close to that achieved by Jeremy Corbyn in 2017 (i.e. Tories close to a majority and still in power), does Starmer remain Leader of the Labour Party until the election after that?

    Good question, I think probably not. He wouldn't want to be 67 and facing the election after next with a five year plan for government that would take him to 72.

    More likely he plays the Kinnock role of sorting the internal party out, then makes way for someone a decade younger after the next election.
    In 2017 the Tories lost their majority but Labour/SNP/LibDems numbers weren't sufficient. The Tories got the Ulster Unionists on board which gave them an effective majority. This time round would the UUs prop up Boris, with the border in the Irish Sea? Probably not, so a Tory minority government that falls whenever Starmer chooses - so he'd stay on.
  • Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Starmer is 57. If he achieves a result close to that achieved by Jeremy Corbyn in 2017 (i.e. Tories close to a majority and still in power), does Starmer remain Leader of the Labour Party until the election after that?

    Good question, I think probably not. He wouldn't want to be 67 and facing the election after next with a five year plan for government that would take him to 72.

    More likely he plays the Kinnock role of sorting the internal party out, then makes way for someone a decade younger after the next election.
    In 2017 the Tories lost their majority but Labour/SNP/LibDems numbers weren't sufficient. The Tories got the Ulster Unionists on board which gave them an effective majority. This time round would the UUs prop up Boris, with the border in the Irish Sea? Probably not, so a Tory minority government that falls whenever Starmer chooses - so he'd stay on.
    DUP not UUP.

    SDLP are one to watch out for with Labour.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    LadyG said:

    ClippP said:

    nichomar said:

    LadyG said:

    nichomar said:

    LadyG said:

    IanB2 said:

    LadyG said:

    This is encouraging (even if you hate Boris, he is our PM).

    Bojo looks completely returned to his old self. Relaxed, witty, healthy, a sparkle in the eye: entirely healthy and rested (especially rested, given that he is the 56 year old dad of a newborn)

    This fits with the profile of Covid sufferers. It hits you for quite a while - but you nearly always DO get better in the end.

    https://twitter.com/timesradio/status/1277522387844632576?s=20

    Puff.
    But, it's true. He has that mischievous glint in his eye, which is always a sign he is on form.

    It's been notably absent of late, to the extent I wondered if it would ever return and he might retire very soon.
    Mischievous glint? What have you been drinking?
    I accept there are some on here whose visceral dislike of the PM would lead them to believe he is ginger haired, eight foot tall, of Amerindian descent, and is entirely infertile, if it confirmed their dislike of him, but to my studiedly neutral eye, he looks like a healthy man again. With his old charm returned (even if the charm only works on some).

    We are free to disagree, but I am entirely right.
    Of course you are right there is no room for self doubt.
    So much so that you could even be Boris Johnson imself. But we must not speculate.

    Bene dicere autem, si non esset mortuus esset admonitus, ut verbis: Nolo eam?
    Another smart arse try designing a heat exchanger!
  • Is there an argument to be made that Tories hating Johnson might support a Starmer administration, especially in the case he's just lost a load of seats?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    "The best person for the job" is conveniently ignored because Brexit. Of course, hypocrisy is the Brexiteer art.
    The government is seeking to improve the country via Brexit.

    Whether someone is a Brexiteer or Remainer should be irrelevant. They should however be able to answer the question "in which ways can the UK be improved post-Brexit".

    If their answer is a @Scott_xP style reply of "it can't, Brexit is a bloody stupid idea" then they're not the best person for the job.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    Is there an argument to be made that Tories hating Johnson might support a Starmer administration, especially in the case he's just lost a load of seats?

    No. Next.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,317
    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    Cyclefree said:

    FPT

    Cyclefree said:
    You simply have no idea of the range of decisions taken every single day which require legal advice beyond the frankly trite statement that you can change the law if you want to.

    The question “Is it legal for me to do this today?” requires a yes or no answer. Postponing an action may also be unlawful in some circumstances.

    Ministers who ignore the law get themselves into terrible trouble. Generally they try to avoid this. But in a government headed by a man who thinks the rules should not apply to him they get away with it.

    Why anyone should think this a good thing beats me. It is another degrading of good government in this country. We will all be worse off if this continues.

    What continues @Cyclefree ? This started off as a hypothetical between yourself and Philip that seems to have grown arms and legs. Is there any evidence that the government is ignoring legal advice not to proceed with anything? I am not aware of it (although I do wonder what advice Jenrick got before his first decision; presumably not as robust as the advice he got when he quashed it).
    I was dealing with @Philip_Thompson’s claim on the previous thread that civil servants should never say no and pointing out that there are lots of examples when no is exactly the right answer. I gave him an example from my own experience as a government lawyer and civil service.

    Why this should be controversial I don’t know but with some of this government’s supporters it is. Apparently.

    On Jenrick, according to reports, he was advised not to proceed with the decision. He ignored that which is why he had to later accept that his decision was unlawful and agree that it should be quashed.
    I didn't say they should never say no. Never say never.

    I said they should not be "often" saying no. If no is the default rather than a more complicated response then that is a problem. There may be times when no is appropriate but they should be relatively few and far between not very often.
    There’s also a difference between say, the intricate legal aspects of a planning decision, as Ms Cyclefree refers, and the senior CS simply saying no to a major chunk of the elected government’s manifesto.
    What is your evidence for the latter?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    Is there an argument to be made that Tories hating Johnson might support a Starmer administration, especially in the case he's just lost a load of seats?

    Tory MPs? They'd immediately lose the whip and membership if they voted for a Labour QS.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    edited June 2020
    HYUFD said:

    In terms of voteshare though the Tories are virtually unchanged from the 44% they got at GE19 on 44%.

    All the movement since GE19 has been LD to Labour and while there is a possibility the Tories could lose their majority at the next general election, they would still have more seats than Labour, the SNP and LDs combined

    https://twitter.com/flaviblePolitic/status/1276959345268469761?s=20

    Secretary of State for Scotland Alister Jack losing his seat there; SLDs wiped out; SCons halving their seats from 6 to 3; and one sole SLab MP. And HY thinks this is great!
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,914

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Starmer is 57. If he achieves a result close to that achieved by Jeremy Corbyn in 2017 (i.e. Tories close to a majority and still in power), does Starmer remain Leader of the Labour Party until the election after that?

    Good question, I think probably not. He wouldn't want to be 67 and facing the election after next with a five year plan for government that would take him to 72.

    More likely he plays the Kinnock role of sorting the internal party out, then makes way for someone a decade younger after the next election.
    In 2017 the Tories lost their majority but Labour/SNP/LibDems numbers weren't sufficient. The Tories got the Ulster Unionists on board which gave them an effective majority. This time round would the UUs prop up Boris, with the border in the Irish Sea? Probably not, so a Tory minority government that falls whenever Starmer chooses - so he'd stay on.
    DUP not UUP.

    SDLP are one to watch out for with Labour.
    Yep DUP, although they are still Ulster unionists.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    HYUFD said:

    In terms of voteshare though the Tories are virtually unchanged from the 44% they got at GE19 on 44%.

    All the movement since GE19 has been LD to Labour and while there is a possibility the Tories could lose their majority at the next general election, they would still have more seats than Labour, the SNP and LDs combined

    https://twitter.com/flaviblePolitic/status/1276959345268469761?s=20

    Secretary of State for Scotland Alister Jack losing his seat there; SLDs wiped out; SCons halving their seats from 6 to 3; and one sole SLab MP. And HY thinks this is great!
    You do realise the country extends beyond your region don't you?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    LadyG said:

    This is encouraging (even if you hate Boris, he is our PM).

    Bojo looks completely returned to his old self. Relaxed, witty, healthy, a sparkle in the eye: entirely healthy and rested (especially rested, given that he is the 56 year old dad of a newborn)

    This fits with the profile of Covid sufferers. It hits you for quite a while - but you nearly always DO get better in the end.

    https://twitter.com/timesradio/status/1277522387844632576?s=20

    Indeed. The revival of his form and humour will be a great disappointment to those who have so assiduously concern-trolled his health in recent months: 'Ooh, he's a bit out of breath isn't he? Getting a bit tired by the end of the press conference, isn't he? Oooh...'.

    Not any more. A revivified Boris with 4 clear years of power will be a delightful sight to behold :smile:
    He is still VERY fat. And he is still useless. His form is exactly what it always was - incompetent. It is a cringing sight to behold. A clown, completely devoid of leadership capability in our most senior executive position.
    Well his fighting weight is 17 stones. That's when he is to be most feared in a physical encounter. To me he looks a touch light of that. But we really should not go down this path. The point is neither his length nor girth but what he is doing to the country - screwing us all over for the sake of nothing other than personal gratification. It is such a crying shame.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,914
    ClippP said:

    LadyG said:

    ClippP said:

    nichomar said:

    LadyG said:

    nichomar said:

    LadyG said:

    IanB2 said:

    LadyG said:

    This is encouraging (even if you hate Boris, he is our PM).

    Bojo looks completely returned to his old self. Relaxed, witty, healthy, a sparkle in the eye: entirely healthy and rested (especially rested, given that he is the 56 year old dad of a newborn)

    This fits with the profile of Covid sufferers. It hits you for quite a while - but you nearly always DO get better in the end.

    https://twitter.com/timesradio/status/1277522387844632576?s=20

    Puff.
    But, it's true. He has that mischievous glint in his eye, which is always a sign he is on form.

    It's been notably absent of late, to the extent I wondered if it would ever return and he might retire very soon.
    Mischievous glint? What have you been drinking?
    I accept there are some on here whose visceral dislike of the PM would lead them to believe he is ginger haired, eight foot tall, of Amerindian descent, and is entirely infertile, if it confirmed their dislike of him, but to my studiedly neutral eye, he looks like a healthy man again. With his old charm returned (even if the charm only works on some).

    We are free to disagree, but I am entirely right.
    Of course you are right there is no room for self doubt.
    So much so that you could even be Boris Johnson imself. But we must not speculate.
    Bene dicere autem, si non esset mortuus esset admonitus, ut verbis: Nolo eam?
    Crickey! Nobody ever said that to me before. But then the Romans never spoke like that.
    Google Translate:
    "Well, it would be dead if it were not warned that the words:
    I do not want it"

    Any clearer?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Starmer is 57. If he achieves a result close to that achieved by Jeremy Corbyn in 2017 (i.e. Tories close to a majority and still in power), does Starmer remain Leader of the Labour Party until the election after that?

    Good question, I think probably not. He wouldn't want to be 67 and facing the election after next with a five year plan for government that would take him to 72.

    More likely he plays the Kinnock role of sorting the internal party out, then makes way for someone a decade younger after the next election.
    In 2017 the Tories lost their majority but Labour/SNP/LibDems numbers weren't sufficient. The Tories got the Ulster Unionists on board which gave them an effective majority. This time round would the UUs prop up Boris, with the border in the Irish Sea? Probably not, so a Tory minority government that falls whenever Starmer chooses - so he'd stay on.
    Good point. If it's so tight as to look like an early election or a change of government could happen, then he might well stay on.

    If it's looking like another five years of opposition, he'll likely stand aside.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    Christ, it's depressing.

    The only upside is that these vandalisms are now becoming so unpopular, pointless and moronic, they are making people shy away from the more extreme parts of the BLM cause.

    I see Gary Lineker was delicately backpedalling his support from BLM UK this morning, on Twitter, thanks to the defund police/anti-Semitism stuff
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    LadyG said:

    Christ, it's depressing.

    The only upside is that these vandalisms are now becoming so unpopular, pointless and moronic, they are making people shy away from the more extreme parts of the BLM cause.

    I see Gary Lineker was delicately backpedalling his support from BLM UK this morning, on Twitter, thanks to the defund police/anti-Semitism stuff
    The mob have mow moved onto attacking Matt Lucas and David Baddiel for pointing this out.
  • HYUFD said:

    In terms of voteshare though the Tories are virtually unchanged from the 44% they got at GE19 on 44%.

    All the movement since GE19 has been LD to Labour and while there is a possibility the Tories could lose their majority at the next general election, they would still have more seats than Labour, the SNP and LDs combined

    https://twitter.com/flaviblePolitic/status/1276959345268469761?s=20

    Secretary of State for Scotland Alister Jack losing his seat there; SLDs wiped out; SCons halving their seats from 6 to 3; and one sole SLab MP. And HY thinks this is great!
    How did the Flavible model work out in 2019 against the actual result?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002

    If their answer is a @Scott_xP style reply of "it can't, Brexit is a bloody stupid idea" then they're not the best person for the job.

    They would be

    Speaking truth to power is essential in an impartial civil service, as discussed endlessly above...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    FF43 said:

    DavidL said:

    LadyG said:

    FPT DavidL

    "There's a large leisure and tourism industry absolutely desperate for business in Scotland. Many Brits are looking at what is now called a staycation (which used to be just staying at home) holidaying in the UK. There is a chance here to save tens of thousands of jobs in areas like the Highlands with little else.

    And not being satisfied with giving their competitors in the Lake District or the South West a two week start we have this kind of crap? It's just infuriating. Economic vandalism is too kind a description."


    *****



    I know quite a few hoteliers, restaurateurs, and the like in Scotland, esp the Highlands and Islands.

    I was planning a professional trip to Skye this summer as lockdown eases, but the locals are adamant that no one must come to Skye, for many months, to keep the virus out. They're not especially keen on Glaswegians, let alone the English. And they really mean it, they won't cooperate. Or so I am told.

    All the people employed directly in tourism are tearing their hair out, they know how much tourism means to the Skye economy: it is hugely important. Without it, Skye basically goes bust.

    I guess when furlough ends and the jobs go with it, that might focus minds.

    A good friend of mine is the principal shareholder of a business with a number of hotels in and around Inverness. If they don't open soon they don't open at all. The Scottish schools are already out and many Scots go on holiday as soon as that happens before the Sassenachs drive up the prices!
    I think there's a trend away from hotels to self-catering that the CV19 epidemic accelerates. There's a role for business travel, which itself will be suppressed in the next year or so, and for wedding venues. The concept of hotels as a leisure destination is on the way out, unfortunately.

    Notwithstanding the necessity of working out a smart form of semi-lockdown, which will be our way of life for the medium term.
    One of the many problems that hotels in Scotland at least are going to have is pools. They have to remain shut at the moment which will significantly diminish the hotel as a destination. I am pretty sure that chlorine is going to kill the virus but there will be others better qualified to comment.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,905
    RobD said:

    Is there an argument to be made that Tories hating Johnson might support a Starmer administration, especially in the case he's just lost a load of seats?

    Tory MPs? They'd immediately lose the whip and membership if they voted for a Labour QS.
    Even if there were a crisis, a national emergency...? How unpatriotic of the Conservatives.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,317

    "The best person for the job" is conveniently ignored because Brexit. Of course, hypocrisy is the Brexiteer art.
    The government is seeking to improve the country via Brexit.

    Whether someone is a Brexiteer or Remainer should be irrelevant. They should however be able to answer the question "in which ways can the UK be improved post-Brexit".

    If their answer is a @Scott_xP style reply of "it can't, Brexit is a bloody stupid idea" then they're not the best person for the job.
    They shouldn’t be asked that question at all. It is for politicians to come up with answers to that and then ask the civil service to implement those plans and policies. They do have them, don’t they?

    The problem seems to be that they don’t have the plans. Or have I missed the plan, for instance, on how customs declarations at Dover are going to work?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    In terms of voteshare though the Tories are virtually unchanged from the 44% they got at GE19 on 44%.

    All the movement since GE19 has been LD to Labour and while there is a possibility the Tories could lose their majority at the next general election, they would still have more seats than Labour, the SNP and LDs combined

    https://twitter.com/flaviblePolitic/status/1276959345268469761?s=20

    3 Cons, 1 Labour and no Lib Dems in Scotland in that map. Which would be .... interesting,
    Don't worry, HYUFD will be along shortly to cherry pick whichever of the 2015, 2017 or 2019 GE results in Scotland show that the Scottish Tories are doing well.
    Yes, I noticed that pattern too. And he loves adding the DKs to his column too. Omitting the Scottish Greens is also an HY favourite.

    He’s like one of those stinky monkeys that sees and hears no evil. But talks plenty.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Scott_xP said:

    If their answer is a @Scott_xP style reply of "it can't, Brexit is a bloody stupid idea" then they're not the best person for the job.

    They would be

    Speaking truth to power is essential in an impartial civil service, as discussed endlessly above...
    Its not truth though, its an opinion.

    If you want to implement your opinion then run for office.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    edited June 2020

    LadyG said:

    Christ, it's depressing.

    The only upside is that these vandalisms are now becoming so unpopular, pointless and moronic, they are making people shy away from the more extreme parts of the BLM cause.

    I see Gary Lineker was delicately backpedalling his support from BLM UK this morning, on Twitter, thanks to the defund police/anti-Semitism stuff
    The mob have mow moved onto attacking Matt Lucas and David Baddiel for pointing this out.
    Yes, but I don't think it's working. Baddiel in particular is very feisty and resilient on Twitter.

    I get the sense that BLM as a radical moment in the UK is maybe losing momentum (and my worst fears about statue-toppling might not be realised - though it is too soon to tell).

    In America there is no sign. It is still going full throttle. A real frenzy, on all fronts, from cancellations to riots.
  • Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Starmer is 57. If he achieves a result close to that achieved by Jeremy Corbyn in 2017 (i.e. Tories close to a majority and still in power), does Starmer remain Leader of the Labour Party until the election after that?

    Good question, I think probably not. He wouldn't want to be 67 and facing the election after next with a five year plan for government that would take him to 72.

    More likely he plays the Kinnock role of sorting the internal party out, then makes way for someone a decade younger after the next election.
    In 2017 the Tories lost their majority but Labour/SNP/LibDems numbers weren't sufficient. The Tories got the Ulster Unionists on board which gave them an effective majority. This time round would the UUs prop up Boris, with the border in the Irish Sea? Probably not, so a Tory minority government that falls whenever Starmer chooses - so he'd stay on.
    DUP not UUP.

    SDLP are one to watch out for with Labour.
    Yep DUP, although they are still Ulster unionists.
    See your point, sorry to sound all pedantic.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    edited June 2020
    ClippP said:

    RobD said:

    Is there an argument to be made that Tories hating Johnson might support a Starmer administration, especially in the case he's just lost a load of seats?

    Tory MPs? They'd immediately lose the whip and membership if they voted for a Labour QS.
    Even if there were a crisis, a national emergency...? How unpatriotic of the Conservatives.
    Then there'd be a national government, wouldn't there? I don't think that situation would arise otherwise.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,681
    edited June 2020

    I don't get the hysteria about changing names. Names are changed regularly.

    Should we be changing John Lennon airport back to Speke Airport if changes of names are inappropriate?

    Yes. Airports named after people are sh*t.
    Especially fictional people...

    Cough [Finningley] Cough
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    LadyG said:

    Off topic - just heard the news that the Mississippi Legislature has voted to remove the Confederate battle flag from the canton of the MS state flag. The bill passed in the state house 9-23 and in the state senate 37-14, and the governor has already said he will sign it into law.

    The new flag design, which will be chosen by a special state commission and include the words "In God We Trust" will be submitted to Mississippi voters for approval in a referendum on this November's general election.

    Clearly this vote will be a major hurdle; note that in 2001 a state voter referendum voted 2 to 1 for keeping the Confederate Flag on the state flag.

    But as someone once said, the times they are a changing. Amen to that, sisters and brothers!

    GLORY GLORY HALLELUJAH!!!! HIS TRUTH IS MARCHING ON!!!!

    I was utterly gobsmacked to discover Mississippi still HAD this emblem on its flag, only the other day

    I don't agree with wild illegal statue toppling, but egregious symbols of the slave-owning Confederacy, on a state flag??? Bonkers.
    Mississippi was the most overt holdout, but the saltires on Alabama's and Florida's flags are clearly based on the Confederate battle flag, as are the designs of Arkansas's and Tennessee's. Georgia removed the battle flag about a generation ago, but their current flag is closely modelled on the "Stars and Bars", the original national flag of the Confederate States. The saltire battle flag was never the actual flag of the Confederacy but was part of the last two national flags of the CSA.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Cyclefree said:

    "The best person for the job" is conveniently ignored because Brexit. Of course, hypocrisy is the Brexiteer art.
    The government is seeking to improve the country via Brexit.

    Whether someone is a Brexiteer or Remainer should be irrelevant. They should however be able to answer the question "in which ways can the UK be improved post-Brexit".

    If their answer is a @Scott_xP style reply of "it can't, Brexit is a bloody stupid idea" then they're not the best person for the job.
    They shouldn’t be asked that question at all. It is for politicians to come up with answers to that and then ask the civil service to implement those plans and policies. They do have them, don’t they?

    The problem seems to be that they don’t have the plans. Or have I missed the plan, for instance, on how customs declarations at Dover are going to work?
    I believe they are working for that but are you saying that the CS can't even be asked for options, for ideas?

    I thought the CS was famed for presenting a series of options to Ministers to decide between. If the CS is asked for eg a series of proposals on how customs declarations are going to work are you suggesting that is inappropriate?
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    DavidL said:

    FF43 said:

    DavidL said:

    LadyG said:

    FPT DavidL

    "There's a large leisure and tourism industry absolutely desperate for business in Scotland. Many Brits are looking at what is now called a staycation (which used to be just staying at home) holidaying in the UK. There is a chance here to save tens of thousands of jobs in areas like the Highlands with little else.

    And not being satisfied with giving their competitors in the Lake District or the South West a two week start we have this kind of crap? It's just infuriating. Economic vandalism is too kind a description."


    *****



    I know quite a few hoteliers, restaurateurs, and the like in Scotland, esp the Highlands and Islands.

    I was planning a professional trip to Skye this summer as lockdown eases, but the locals are adamant that no one must come to Skye, for many months, to keep the virus out. They're not especially keen on Glaswegians, let alone the English. And they really mean it, they won't cooperate. Or so I am told.

    All the people employed directly in tourism are tearing their hair out, they know how much tourism means to the Skye economy: it is hugely important. Without it, Skye basically goes bust.

    I guess when furlough ends and the jobs go with it, that might focus minds.

    A good friend of mine is the principal shareholder of a business with a number of hotels in and around Inverness. If they don't open soon they don't open at all. The Scottish schools are already out and many Scots go on holiday as soon as that happens before the Sassenachs drive up the prices!
    I think there's a trend away from hotels to self-catering that the CV19 epidemic accelerates. There's a role for business travel, which itself will be suppressed in the next year or so, and for wedding venues. The concept of hotels as a leisure destination is on the way out, unfortunately.

    Notwithstanding the necessity of working out a smart form of semi-lockdown, which will be our way of life for the medium term.
    One of the many problems that hotels in Scotland at least are going to have is pools. They have to remain shut at the moment which will significantly diminish the hotel as a destination. I am pretty sure that chlorine is going to kill the virus but there will be others better qualified to comment.
    Didn't Trump say we should drink chlorine?
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    HYUFD said:

    In terms of voteshare though the Tories are virtually unchanged from the 44% they got at GE19 on 44%.

    All the movement since GE19 has been LD to Labour and while there is a possibility the Tories could lose their majority at the next general election, they would still have more seats than Labour, the SNP and LDs combined

    https://twitter.com/flaviblePolitic/status/1276959345268469761?s=20

    Secretary of State for Scotland Alister Jack losing his seat there; SLDs wiped out; SCons halving their seats from 6 to 3; and one sole SLab MP. And HY thinks this is great!
    How did the Flavible model work out in 2019 against the actual result?
    Good question.

    If I remember correctly it is a spotty Lib Dem teenager blogging from his bedsit. So, consume with caution.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288

    Floater said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The mayor of Leicester said on Radio 4's lunchtime news that the number of cases may be going up because they're doing more testing.

    I think I heard that before from Trump - and it was derided.
    Quite rightly - if we stop testing the number of cases won't drop to zero, it will increase but we won't know about it for a while.
    I feel a bit embarassed about stating the bleedin obvious which I'm sure everyone knows, even Trump and the Mayor of Leicester.
    https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/03/25/821716942/fact-check-testing-should-take-place-wherever-there-are-cases-despite-trumps-vie?t=1593440233843
    Reporting delays are still news to many, allegedly informed people.

    I presume what the Mayor of Leicester was implying, was that the increase in *positives* might be down to an increase in testing.

    The following is a bit of a guesstimate (assumes a steady ratio of tests to people tested), for the UK.

    image
    The Leicester situation is an opportunity for test and trace to earn its spurs. Giving it 3 or 4 cycles of infection to make sure we can squash an outbreak without full lockdown will be important moving forward.

    The geography of the outbreak seems to be substantially within the city and council area, so the postponement of the July 4th openings local authority wide, with the possibility of further lockdown if, in one or two cycles, suppression by testing needs a helping hand, seems to be the approach. Again, clarity is what is needed - who calls this under what powers and how the local area is involved. Given that local lockdowns have been mooted for weeks, someone must know what the playbook is.

    And yes, you test vigorously but, given that, number of positive tests should not be the only arbiter, as you will be finding additional cases by doing that, potentially making things look bad temporarily. Percentages of positive tests, hospital admissions, symptom self reporting all need to be crunched together to give the true picture.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,681
    LadyG said:
    Lol, nice funnel cloud.

    We do have more tornadoes per unit area than the US, of course...

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    DavidL said:

    FF43 said:

    DavidL said:

    LadyG said:

    FPT DavidL

    "There's a large leisure and tourism industry absolutely desperate for business in Scotland. Many Brits are looking at what is now called a staycation (which used to be just staying at home) holidaying in the UK. There is a chance here to save tens of thousands of jobs in areas like the Highlands with little else.

    And not being satisfied with giving their competitors in the Lake District or the South West a two week start we have this kind of crap? It's just infuriating. Economic vandalism is too kind a description."


    *****



    I know quite a few hoteliers, restaurateurs, and the like in Scotland, esp the Highlands and Islands.

    I was planning a professional trip to Skye this summer as lockdown eases, but the locals are adamant that no one must come to Skye, for many months, to keep the virus out. They're not especially keen on Glaswegians, let alone the English. And they really mean it, they won't cooperate. Or so I am told.

    All the people employed directly in tourism are tearing their hair out, they know how much tourism means to the Skye economy: it is hugely important. Without it, Skye basically goes bust.

    I guess when furlough ends and the jobs go with it, that might focus minds.

    A good friend of mine is the principal shareholder of a business with a number of hotels in and around Inverness. If they don't open soon they don't open at all. The Scottish schools are already out and many Scots go on holiday as soon as that happens before the Sassenachs drive up the prices!
    I think there's a trend away from hotels to self-catering that the CV19 epidemic accelerates. There's a role for business travel, which itself will be suppressed in the next year or so, and for wedding venues. The concept of hotels as a leisure destination is on the way out, unfortunately.

    Notwithstanding the necessity of working out a smart form of semi-lockdown, which will be our way of life for the medium term.
    One of the many problems that hotels in Scotland at least are going to have is pools. They have to remain shut at the moment which will significantly diminish the hotel as a destination. I am pretty sure that chlorine is going to kill the virus but there will be others better qualified to comment.
    Other countries have been very hesitant to re-open pools, especially in holiday resort hotels. It's not possible to wear masks in the water, and pools are often the focus of boisterous games and activities likely to spread a virus around.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited June 2020

    "The best person for the job" is conveniently ignored because Brexit. Of course, hypocrisy is the Brexiteer art.
    The government is seeking to improve the country via Brexit.

    Whether someone is a Brexiteer or Remainer should be irrelevant. They should however be able to answer the question "in which ways can the UK be improved post-Brexit".

    If their answer is a @Scott_xP style reply of "it can't, Brexit is a bloody stupid idea" then they're not the best person for the job.
    Remainers who see Brexit as something that needs to be gone through because it was voted for will treat it as a damage limitation exercise. There is no other sensible way to do Brexit. But if you voted Leave because you think it a Good Thing in a way that makes sense to you, you won't accept damage limitation. You didn't vote for that, and so exclude Remainers from having anything to do with it.

    The end result is a more extreme and an even more partisan and damaging Brexit. It's a dilemma for both parties in their different ways.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    "The best person for the job" is conveniently ignored because Brexit. Of course, hypocrisy is the Brexiteer art.
    The government is seeking to improve the country via Brexit.

    Whether someone is a Brexiteer or Remainer should be irrelevant. They should however be able to answer the question "in which ways can the UK be improved post-Brexit".

    If their answer is a @Scott_xP style reply of "it can't, Brexit is a bloody stupid idea" then they're not the best person for the job.
    "What's the best way from London to Glasgow via Cardiff?"

    "Do we have to go via Cardiff?"

    "I'm afraid so."
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    I have a reasonable compromise for the whole Confederate flag debate. Allow the use of the very last flag used by the Confederates. Even the racists should be happy, as it was all white!
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    HYUFD said:

    In terms of voteshare though the Tories are virtually unchanged from the 44% they got at GE19 on 44%.

    All the movement since GE19 has been LD to Labour and while there is a possibility the Tories could lose their majority at the next general election, they would still have more seats than Labour, the SNP and LDs combined

    https://twitter.com/flaviblePolitic/status/1276959345268469761?s=20

    Secretary of State for Scotland Alister Jack losing his seat there; SLDs wiped out; SCons halving their seats from 6 to 3; and one sole SLab MP. And HY thinks this is great!
    You do realise the country extends beyond your region don't you?
    Your state might extend north of the Tweed, but my country does not extend south of it.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    edited June 2020

    HYUFD said:

    In terms of voteshare though the Tories are virtually unchanged from the 44% they got at GE19 on 44%.

    All the movement since GE19 has been LD to Labour and while there is a possibility the Tories could lose their majority at the next general election, they would still have more seats than Labour, the SNP and LDs combined

    https://twitter.com/flaviblePolitic/status/1276959345268469761?s=20

    Secretary of State for Scotland Alister Jack losing his seat there; SLDs wiped out; SCons halving their seats from 6 to 3; and one sole SLab MP. And HY thinks this is great!
    You do realise the country extends beyond your region don't you?
    I think that Stuart thinks his country begins just north of Berwick on the east side and just north of Carlisle on the west
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885
    edited June 2020
    DavidL said:

    FF43 said:

    DavidL said:

    LadyG said:

    FPT DavidL

    "There's a large leisure and tourism industry absolutely desperate for business in Scotland. Many Brits are looking at what is now called a staycation (which used to be just staying at home) holidaying in the UK. There is a chance here to save tens of thousands of jobs in areas like the Highlands with little else.

    And not being satisfied with giving their competitors in the Lake District or the South West a two week start we have this kind of crap? It's just infuriating. Economic vandalism is too kind a description."


    *****



    I know quite a few hoteliers, restaurateurs, and the like in Scotland, esp the Highlands and Islands.

    I was planning a professional trip to Skye this summer as lockdown eases, but the locals are adamant that no one must come to Skye, for many months, to keep the virus out. They're not especially keen on Glaswegians, let alone the English. And they really mean it, they won't cooperate. Or so I am told.

    All the people employed directly in tourism are tearing their hair out, they know how much tourism means to the Skye economy: it is hugely important. Without it, Skye basically goes bust.

    I guess when furlough ends and the jobs go with it, that might focus minds.

    A good friend of mine is the principal shareholder of a business with a number of hotels in and around Inverness. If they don't open soon they don't open at all. The Scottish schools are already out and many Scots go on holiday as soon as that happens before the Sassenachs drive up the prices!
    I think there's a trend away from hotels to self-catering that the CV19 epidemic accelerates. There's a role for business travel, which itself will be suppressed in the next year or so, and for wedding venues. The concept of hotels as a leisure destination is on the way out, unfortunately.

    Notwithstanding the necessity of working out a smart form of semi-lockdown, which will be our way of life for the medium term.
    One of the many problems that hotels in Scotland at least are going to have is pools. They have to remain shut at the moment which will significantly diminish the hotel as a destination. I am pretty sure that chlorine is going to kill the virus but there will be others better qualified to comment.
    I suspect it's not the water itself but getting there and out again. Edit: also the small matter of breathing. Air is warm and damp, people exerting themselves and breathing heavily. Same logic as choirs and gyms?

    Changing rooms too may be an issue.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    rpjs said:

    LadyG said:

    Off topic - just heard the news that the Mississippi Legislature has voted to remove the Confederate battle flag from the canton of the MS state flag. The bill passed in the state house 9-23 and in the state senate 37-14, and the governor has already said he will sign it into law.

    The new flag design, which will be chosen by a special state commission and include the words "In God We Trust" will be submitted to Mississippi voters for approval in a referendum on this November's general election.

    Clearly this vote will be a major hurdle; note that in 2001 a state voter referendum voted 2 to 1 for keeping the Confederate Flag on the state flag.

    But as someone once said, the times they are a changing. Amen to that, sisters and brothers!

    GLORY GLORY HALLELUJAH!!!! HIS TRUTH IS MARCHING ON!!!!

    I was utterly gobsmacked to discover Mississippi still HAD this emblem on its flag, only the other day

    I don't agree with wild illegal statue toppling, but egregious symbols of the slave-owning Confederacy, on a state flag??? Bonkers.
    Mississippi was the most overt holdout, but the saltires on Alabama's and Florida's flags are clearly based on the Confederate battle flag, as are the designs of Arkansas's and Tennessee's. Georgia removed the battle flag about a generation ago, but their current flag is closely modelled on the "Stars and Bars", the original national flag of the Confederate States. The saltire battle flag was never the actual flag of the Confederacy but was part of the last two national flags of the CSA.
    I thought the Florida flag was based on Spain's old flag?
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    edited June 2020
    RobD said:

    rpjs said:

    LadyG said:

    Off topic - just heard the news that the Mississippi Legislature has voted to remove the Confederate battle flag from the canton of the MS state flag. The bill passed in the state house 9-23 and in the state senate 37-14, and the governor has already said he will sign it into law.

    The new flag design, which will be chosen by a special state commission and include the words "In God We Trust" will be submitted to Mississippi voters for approval in a referendum on this November's general election.

    Clearly this vote will be a major hurdle; note that in 2001 a state voter referendum voted 2 to 1 for keeping the Confederate Flag on the state flag.

    But as someone once said, the times they are a changing. Amen to that, sisters and brothers!

    GLORY GLORY HALLELUJAH!!!! HIS TRUTH IS MARCHING ON!!!!

    I was utterly gobsmacked to discover Mississippi still HAD this emblem on its flag, only the other day

    I don't agree with wild illegal statue toppling, but egregious symbols of the slave-owning Confederacy, on a state flag??? Bonkers.
    Mississippi was the most overt holdout, but the saltires on Alabama's and Florida's flags are clearly based on the Confederate battle flag, as are the designs of Arkansas's and Tennessee's. Georgia removed the battle flag about a generation ago, but their current flag is closely modelled on the "Stars and Bars", the original national flag of the Confederate States. The saltire battle flag was never the actual flag of the Confederacy but was part of the last two national flags of the CSA.
    I thought the Florida flag was based on Spain's old flag?
    I'm sure they say it is!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    FF43 said:

    "The best person for the job" is conveniently ignored because Brexit. Of course, hypocrisy is the Brexiteer art.
    The government is seeking to improve the country via Brexit.

    Whether someone is a Brexiteer or Remainer should be irrelevant. They should however be able to answer the question "in which ways can the UK be improved post-Brexit".

    If their answer is a @Scott_xP style reply of "it can't, Brexit is a bloody stupid idea" then they're not the best person for the job.
    Remainers who see Brexit as something that needs to be gone through because it was voted for are going to see it as a damage limitation exercise. There is no other sensible way to do Brexit. But if you voted Leave because you think it a Good Thing in a way that makes sense to you, you're won't accept damage limitation. You didn't vote for that and exclude Remainers from having anything to do with it.

    The end result is a more extreme and an even more partisan and damaging Brexit. It's a dilemma for both parties in their different ways.
    Well precisely. Brexit is not a damage limitation exercise, it is an opportunity.

    The Civil Servants should be looking to serve the government implement Brexit as an opportunity. If they're incapable of doing so, if they're incapable of looking beyond "damage limitation" then they're regrettably incapable of doing their jobs. They're no longer the "best person for the job".

    The Civil Service needs to adapt to implement what the public have voted for, not look to limit it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885

    HYUFD said:

    In terms of voteshare though the Tories are virtually unchanged from the 44% they got at GE19 on 44%.

    All the movement since GE19 has been LD to Labour and while there is a possibility the Tories could lose their majority at the next general election, they would still have more seats than Labour, the SNP and LDs combined

    https://twitter.com/flaviblePolitic/status/1276959345268469761?s=20

    Secretary of State for Scotland Alister Jack losing his seat there; SLDs wiped out; SCons halving their seats from 6 to 3; and one sole SLab MP. And HY thinks this is great!
    You do realise the country extends beyond your region don't you?
    Your state might extend north of the Tweed, but my country does not extend south of it.
    I hope that's metaphorical, or the folk on the south bank of the Tweed at Peebles will be very surprised!
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    LadyG said:
    Lol, nice funnel cloud.

    We do have more tornadoes per unit area than the US, of course...

    I am not a meteorologist, though I have an amateur interest, but isn't that a proper tornado, inasmuch as it seems to be touching the ground?

    I thought funnel clouds were would-be tornadoes that never quite made it to earth?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    HYUFD said:

    In terms of voteshare though the Tories are virtually unchanged from the 44% they got at GE19 on 44%.

    All the movement since GE19 has been LD to Labour and while there is a possibility the Tories could lose their majority at the next general election, they would still have more seats than Labour, the SNP and LDs combined

    https://twitter.com/flaviblePolitic/status/1276959345268469761?s=20

    Secretary of State for Scotland Alister Jack losing his seat there; SLDs wiped out; SCons halving their seats from 6 to 3; and one sole SLab MP. And HY thinks this is great!
    You do realise the country extends beyond your region don't you?
    Your state might extend north of the Tweed, but my country does not extend south of it.
    Your country is the United Kingdom as per the 2014 referendum.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    edited June 2020
    Pro_Rata said:


    The Leicester situation is an opportunity for test and trace to earn its spurs. Giving it 3 or 4 cycles of infection to make sure we can squash an outbreak without full lockdown will be important moving forward.

    Just test literally everyone in Leicester. And their dogs. Then test them again.

    We've built this huge testing system, that is currently being quite underused because we can't find enough people with symptoms. It's one of few good things we've done in our covid response, so might as well use it now.

    Absolutely flood the place with testing, get all the infected isolated, stamp it out early.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    Pro_Rata said:

    Floater said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The mayor of Leicester said on Radio 4's lunchtime news that the number of cases may be going up because they're doing more testing.

    I think I heard that before from Trump - and it was derided.
    Quite rightly - if we stop testing the number of cases won't drop to zero, it will increase but we won't know about it for a while.
    I feel a bit embarassed about stating the bleedin obvious which I'm sure everyone knows, even Trump and the Mayor of Leicester.
    https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/03/25/821716942/fact-check-testing-should-take-place-wherever-there-are-cases-despite-trumps-vie?t=1593440233843
    Reporting delays are still news to many, allegedly informed people.

    I presume what the Mayor of Leicester was implying, was that the increase in *positives* might be down to an increase in testing.

    The following is a bit of a guesstimate (assumes a steady ratio of tests to people tested), for the UK.

    image
    The Leicester situation is an opportunity for test and trace to earn its spurs. Giving it 3 or 4 cycles of infection to make sure we can squash an outbreak without full lockdown will be important moving forward.

    The geography of the outbreak seems to be substantially within the city and council area, so the postponement of the July 4th openings local authority wide, with the possibility of further lockdown if, in one or two cycles, suppression by testing needs a helping hand, seems to be the approach. Again, clarity is what is needed - who calls this under what powers and how the local area is involved. Given that local lockdowns have been mooted for weeks, someone must know what the playbook is.

    And yes, you test vigorously but, given that, number of positive tests should not be the only arbiter, as you will be finding additional cases by doing that, potentially making things look bad temporarily. Percentages of positive tests, hospital admissions, symptom self reporting all need to be crunched together to give the true picture.
    PHE need to get 100,000 tests sent to Leicester as soon as possible. Test everyone who lives or works with anyone who's been diagnosed, even if that means going through whole housing blocks testing everyone, and isolating everyone who tests positive who can't isolate themselves.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    Nothing to see here, just an actual..... genocide.

    Move along there.

    https://twitter.com/AdamSerwer/status/1277615437065453569?s=20
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    rpjs said:

    RobD said:

    rpjs said:

    LadyG said:

    Off topic - just heard the news that the Mississippi Legislature has voted to remove the Confederate battle flag from the canton of the MS state flag. The bill passed in the state house 9-23 and in the state senate 37-14, and the governor has already said he will sign it into law.

    The new flag design, which will be chosen by a special state commission and include the words "In God We Trust" will be submitted to Mississippi voters for approval in a referendum on this November's general election.

    Clearly this vote will be a major hurdle; note that in 2001 a state voter referendum voted 2 to 1 for keeping the Confederate Flag on the state flag.

    But as someone once said, the times they are a changing. Amen to that, sisters and brothers!

    GLORY GLORY HALLELUJAH!!!! HIS TRUTH IS MARCHING ON!!!!

    I was utterly gobsmacked to discover Mississippi still HAD this emblem on its flag, only the other day

    I don't agree with wild illegal statue toppling, but egregious symbols of the slave-owning Confederacy, on a state flag??? Bonkers.
    Mississippi was the most overt holdout, but the saltires on Alabama's and Florida's flags are clearly based on the Confederate battle flag, as are the designs of Arkansas's and Tennessee's. Georgia removed the battle flag about a generation ago, but their current flag is closely modelled on the "Stars and Bars", the original national flag of the Confederate States. The saltire battle flag was never the actual flag of the Confederacy but was part of the last two national flags of the CSA.
    I thought the Florida flag was based on Spain's old flag?
    I'm sure they say it is!
    It looks much more like that than the old Confederate flag. Like almost identical to the Spanish flag in fact.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    LadyG said:

    Off topic - just heard the news that the Mississippi Legislature has voted to remove the Confederate battle flag from the canton of the MS state flag. The bill passed in the state house 9-23 and in the state senate 37-14, and the governor has already said he will sign it into law.

    The new flag design, which will be chosen by a special state commission and include the words "In God We Trust" will be submitted to Mississippi voters for approval in a referendum on this November's general election.

    Clearly this vote will be a major hurdle; note that in 2001 a state voter referendum voted 2 to 1 for keeping the Confederate Flag on the state flag.

    But as someone once said, the times they are a changing. Amen to that, sisters and brothers!

    GLORY GLORY HALLELUJAH!!!! HIS TRUTH IS MARCHING ON!!!!

    I was utterly gobsmacked to discover Mississippi still HAD this emblem on its flag, only the other day

    I don't agree with wild illegal statue toppling, but egregious symbols of the slave-owning Confederacy, on a state flag??? Bonkers.
    I hear you, LadyG, agree with you on both counts. Note that Georgia also used to feature the Confederate flag on its state flag (you can see it on old "Matlock" reruns) but it was removed in 2001.

    Why was it put on these state flags? Partly our of pride of tradition, but mostly and chiefly to send the message loud and clear: this is White man's country, boy, and don't you ever forget it!

    Well, more and more and more and more folks are saying: to hell with that shit!!!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    HYUFD said:

    In terms of voteshare though the Tories are virtually unchanged from the 44% they got at GE19 on 44%.

    All the movement since GE19 has been LD to Labour and while there is a possibility the Tories could lose their majority at the next general election, they would still have more seats than Labour, the SNP and LDs combined

    https://twitter.com/flaviblePolitic/status/1276959345268469761?s=20

    Secretary of State for Scotland Alister Jack losing his seat there; SLDs wiped out; SCons halving their seats from 6 to 3; and one sole SLab MP. And HY thinks this is great!
    You do realise the country extends beyond your region don't you?
    I think that Stuart thinks his country begins just north of Berwick on the east side and just north of Carlisle on the west
    And he would be right about that
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    HYUFD said:

    In terms of voteshare though the Tories are virtually unchanged from the 44% they got at GE19 on 44%.

    All the movement since GE19 has been LD to Labour and while there is a possibility the Tories could lose their majority at the next general election, they would still have more seats than Labour, the SNP and LDs combined

    https://twitter.com/flaviblePolitic/status/1276959345268469761?s=20

    Secretary of State for Scotland Alister Jack losing his seat there; SLDs wiped out; SCons halving their seats from 6 to 3; and one sole SLab MP. And HY thinks this is great!
    You do realise the country extends beyond your region don't you?
    Your state might extend north of the Tweed, but my country does not extend south of it.
    Your country is the United Kingdom as per the 2014 referendum.
    The United Kingdom is a political union of three countries and part of a fourth country. The UK is a state, not a country. That did not change in 2014.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    edited June 2020
    Andrew said:

    Pro_Rata said:


    The Leicester situation is an opportunity for test and trace to earn its spurs. Giving it 3 or 4 cycles of infection to make sure we can squash an outbreak without full lockdown will be important moving forward.

    Just test literally everyone in Leicester. And their dogs. Then test them again.

    We've built this huge testing system, that is currently being quite underused because we can't find enough people with symptoms. It's one of few good things we've done in our covid response, so might as well use it now.

    Absolutely flood the place with testing, get all the infected isolated, stamp it out early.

    Leicester is pretty small – it probably has fewer than 450,000 people in its entire metropolitan area – the size of a couple of London boroughs. It shouldn't be beyond the wit of man to test everyone there.

    Edit 508,000 – not far off.

    It's not even in the top ten metro areas in the UK.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_urban_areas_in_the_United_Kingdom
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
    edited June 2020

    Your state might extend north of the Tweed, but my country does not extend south of it.

    Not true

    Sweden extends South of the Tweed
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Andrew said:

    Pro_Rata said:


    The Leicester situation is an opportunity for test and trace to earn its spurs. Giving it 3 or 4 cycles of infection to make sure we can squash an outbreak without full lockdown will be important moving forward.

    Just test literally everyone in Leicester. And their dogs. Then test them again.

    We've built this huge testing system, that is currently being quite underused because we can't find enough people with symptoms. It's one of few good things we've done in our covid response, so might as well use it now.

    Absolutely flood the place with testing, get all the infected isolated, stamp it out early.

    Would also be a good potential testbed for a vaccine, if community transmission is relatively high there?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    HYUFD said:

    In terms of voteshare though the Tories are virtually unchanged from the 44% they got at GE19 on 44%.

    All the movement since GE19 has been LD to Labour and while there is a possibility the Tories could lose their majority at the next general election, they would still have more seats than Labour, the SNP and LDs combined

    https://twitter.com/flaviblePolitic/status/1276959345268469761?s=20

    Secretary of State for Scotland Alister Jack losing his seat there; SLDs wiped out; SCons halving their seats from 6 to 3; and one sole SLab MP. And HY thinks this is great!
    You do realise the country extends beyond your region don't you?
    Your state might extend north of the Tweed, but my country does not extend south of it.
    Your country is the United Kingdom as per the 2014 referendum.
    The United Kingdom is a political union of three countries and part of a fourth country. The UK is a state, not a country. That did not change in 2014.
    I wonder what the poll results would be if you asked the question "Is the UK a country?".
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    FF43 said:

    "The best person for the job" is conveniently ignored because Brexit. Of course, hypocrisy is the Brexiteer art.
    The government is seeking to improve the country via Brexit.

    Whether someone is a Brexiteer or Remainer should be irrelevant. They should however be able to answer the question "in which ways can the UK be improved post-Brexit".

    If their answer is a @Scott_xP style reply of "it can't, Brexit is a bloody stupid idea" then they're not the best person for the job.
    Remainers who see Brexit as something that needs to be gone through because it was voted for are going to see it as a damage limitation exercise. There is no other sensible way to do Brexit. But if you voted Leave because you think it a Good Thing in a way that makes sense to you, you're won't accept damage limitation. You didn't vote for that and exclude Remainers from having anything to do with it.

    The end result is a more extreme and an even more partisan and damaging Brexit. It's a dilemma for both parties in their different ways.
    Well precisely. Brexit is not a damage limitation exercise, it is an opportunity.

    The Civil Servants should be looking to serve the government implement Brexit as an opportunity. If they're incapable of doing so, if they're incapable of looking beyond "damage limitation" then they're regrettably incapable of doing their jobs. They're no longer the "best person for the job".

    The Civil Service needs to adapt to implement what the public have voted for, not look to limit it.
    Minimising damage is in general very much part of a civil servant's job. But this means the damage won't be limited. Brexit being worse than it needs to be is obviously bad from a Remainer's point of view, but I suggest a Brexit that is acutely partisan and is perceived to have failed is bad for the Leave faction too? Johnson et al need Brexit to be liveable with.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    HYUFD said:

    In terms of voteshare though the Tories are virtually unchanged from the 44% they got at GE19 on 44%.

    All the movement since GE19 has been LD to Labour and while there is a possibility the Tories could lose their majority at the next general election, they would still have more seats than Labour, the SNP and LDs combined

    https://twitter.com/flaviblePolitic/status/1276959345268469761?s=20

    Secretary of State for Scotland Alister Jack losing his seat there; SLDs wiped out; SCons halving their seats from 6 to 3; and one sole SLab MP. And HY thinks this is great!
    You do realise the country extends beyond your region don't you?
    Your state might extend north of the Tweed, but my country does not extend south of it.
    Your country is the United Kingdom as per the 2014 referendum.
    The United Kingdom is a political union of three countries and part of a fourth country. The UK is a state, not a country. That did not change in 2014.
    The United Kingdom is a country as per international law which is a rather union of countries.

    The UK is still a country in its own right. Scotland is a country within a country, it is not an independent country.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,878
    LadyG said:

    ClippP said:

    nichomar said:

    LadyG said:

    nichomar said:

    LadyG said:

    IanB2 said:

    LadyG said:

    This is encouraging (even if you hate Boris, he is our PM).

    Bojo looks completely returned to his old self. Relaxed, witty, healthy, a sparkle in the eye: entirely healthy and rested (especially rested, given that he is the 56 year old dad of a newborn)

    This fits with the profile of Covid sufferers. It hits you for quite a while - but you nearly always DO get better in the end.

    https://twitter.com/timesradio/status/1277522387844632576?s=20

    Puff.
    But, it's true. He has that mischievous glint in his eye, which is always a sign he is on form.

    It's been notably absent of late, to the extent I wondered if it would ever return and he might retire very soon.
    Mischievous glint? What have you been drinking?
    I accept there are some on here whose visceral dislike of the PM would lead them to believe he is ginger haired, eight foot tall, of Amerindian descent, and is entirely infertile, if it confirmed their dislike of him, but to my studiedly neutral eye, he looks like a healthy man again. With his old charm returned (even if the charm only works on some).

    We are free to disagree, but I am entirely right.
    Of course you are right there is no room for self doubt.
    So much so that you could even be Boris Johnson imself. But we must not speculate.

    Bene dicere autem, si non esset mortuus esset admonitus, ut verbis: Nolo eam?
    @LadyG is really @TheScreamingEagles? Who knew!
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,317

    Cyclefree said:

    "The best person for the job" is conveniently ignored because Brexit. Of course, hypocrisy is the Brexiteer art.
    The government is seeking to improve the country via Brexit.

    Whether someone is a Brexiteer or Remainer should be irrelevant. They should however be able to answer the question "in which ways can the UK be improved post-Brexit".

    If their answer is a @Scott_xP style reply of "it can't, Brexit is a bloody stupid idea" then they're not the best person for the job.
    They shouldn’t be asked that question at all. It is for politicians to come up with answers to that and then ask the civil service to implement those plans and policies. They do have them, don’t they?

    The problem seems to be that they don’t have the plans. Or have I missed the plan, for instance, on how customs declarations at Dover are going to work?
    I believe they are working for that but are you saying that the CS can't even be asked for options, for ideas?

    I thought the CS was famed for presenting a series of options to Ministers to decide between. If the CS is asked for eg a series of proposals on how customs declarations are going to work are you suggesting that is inappropriate?
    I am saying that it is for those politicians who wanted Brexit to come up with the relevant policies and plans eg what sort of tariffs or no tariffs or whatever and then ask the civil service to come up with ways of implementing those policies.. there may be only one way or several, who knows.

    In order to do that it is not necessary for the civil servant to answer the question you suggested. That is a question for the politicians.

    Mind you, it would be good to have our pro-Brexit government give an answer to your question.

    I am in the dark as to precisely how they think a post-Brexit Britain is going to be improved. In the 5 months since it happened, Britain has suffered worst than other countries in the EU. If how the government has dealt with Covid-19 is a sign of how it will implement all these improvements, it is not a good one.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102
    edited June 2020

    HYUFD said:

    In terms of voteshare though the Tories are virtually unchanged from the 44% they got at GE19 on 44%.

    All the movement since GE19 has been LD to Labour and while there is a possibility the Tories could lose their majority at the next general election, they would still have more seats than Labour, the SNP and LDs combined

    https://twitter.com/flaviblePolitic/status/1276959345268469761?s=20

    Secretary of State for Scotland Alister Jack losing his seat there; SLDs wiped out; SCons halving their seats from 6 to 3; and one sole SLab MP. And HY thinks this is great!
    You do realise the country extends beyond your region don't you?
    I think that Stuart thinks his country begins just north of Berwick on the east side and just north of Carlisle on the west
    True Nationalists believe Berwick is in Scotland and Tweedmouth England

    The middle of the Tweed is the border until it diverts north and east by chainbridge

    Hence why Wendy Wood in my days living in Berwick (1954 - 1962) used to paint a white line across the centre of the Royal Tweed Bridge
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    Scott_xP said:

    Your state might extend north of the Tweed, but my country does not extend south of it.

    Not true

    Sweden extends South of the Tweed
    Bath also has territorial ambitions in this area.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Swedish news: the Greens (down to 3% in latest poll) threatening to withdraw from their minority coalition with the Social Democrats. That’ll be fun n games. It took months to form that weak coalition after nobody won the last election (eight parliamentary parties).
This discussion has been closed.