If indyref2 is inevitable, thank god Corbyn isn't in charge of the Labour party during it. He'd have given a couple of nonsensical speeches in Glasgow about solidarity and trade unionists in Cuba, and that would literally have been the sum total of Labour's campaign. As much as an irrelevance SLAB seem these days in Scotland, the result of any second indyref I think will depend very much on how hard Labour campaign against indy.
I'm assuming Labour will have learned their lesson about being the Tories' patsies in any 2nd referendum, though learning lessons doesn't seem to be SLab's strong point.
If you're from rUK Labour, though, you have a very strong reason to campaign against indy. A SLAB recovery means fuck all for you if it's taking place in an independent country. Starmer needs a SLAB recovery to take place with Scotland as still part of the UK, if it's to help him at all. And I think we both know that if UK Lab comes out strongly against indy, SLAB will follow.
SLab in the form of Ian Murray and Jackie Baillie have already come out strongly against indy and Indy ref 2, I think Starmer is taking his lead from them at the moment.
I haven't seen the workings of this last indy poll but the previous Panelbase had a third of current SLab voters say that they would vote Yes in a new referendum. It's not only that Starmer has to come up with some viable offer to these folk, but that it's also got to be convincing ie not some pie in the sky federalism by the year 2525 rubbish.
Oh great, the predictable immigrant bashing will start now
Are we allowed to ask any questions about what motivated him, or would that be racist to you?
If it was a white English man, would you be implying questions about his religious/cultural background or not?
Given that this is now being classed as terrorism, his religion becomes extremely relevant.
Given that we now know he is a refugee with a criminal record, his ethnicity is likewise extremely relevant.
When an English person commits acts of terror, their religious background never comes into it. Contrast the coverage of how the media reports it for a start.
I have no issue with discussing his religious background for what it's worth - but I do have a great issue with people that will inevitably jump to "it's because he's religious" and this will turn into an immigrant bashing exercise again.
The problem with terrorist incidents like these is that they are never seen in isolation like they would be for a Christian terrorist. It always inevitably leads to attacks on the religion itself and all immigrants.
Anders Breivik? (Yes, I know he’s Norwegian.)
From what I recall, Anders Breivik is a far right racist with a particular obsession with Islam. I don't believe he expressed any interest in Christianity in his manifesto - though he expressed admiration for racist nutters in the Hindu world, among others.
Interesting - so he has trying to add in the US Christian Identity stuff into his patchwork?
Such stuff as is there reminds me more than anything of the ramblings of Houston Stewart Chamberlain. But yes, it was part of his far right identity. He seemed to equate Christianity with Europe and everywhere else as non-Christian and therefore barbarian.
(Incidentally this would of course have been a fairly mainstream view in nineteenth century Europe.)
Some French politicians (and not just of the far right) have said that they see Europe as an exclusionary construct.
Off topic: whilst out to get a coffee, I saw two A400Ms inbound to Newcastle Airport. One made what looked to be a hell of an aborted landing. They are foreboding yet majestic aircraft.
Wow, yeah. It's done six approaches so far, either go-arounds or touch-and-goes. A400M out of Brize Norton. Some sort of a training mission maybe? https://www.flightradar24.com/ASCOT491/24bf8738
I must have seen the same one twice! It had its landing gear down and was very low. Odd one! Good experience though.
He's certainly having a fun Sunday afternoon, that's for sure! No idea why though.
I was just messaging with my brother who mentioned a big grey plane flying around, he lives in Seaton.
Round my way, we had a few massive A380s flying circuits last week - they've been grounded for ages, so they need to stop planes and pilots from becoming rusty.
I suspect a VAT cut achieves sod all, as Brown found out (albeit his cut was a lot smaller than being proposed).
If the economy is in the toilet, which it is, people aren't going to spend spend spend and rescue it.
I dunno, I think it makes some sense. VAT is essentially a tax on spending and it seems odd to disincentivise spending in a capitalist economy. I know it’s one of the easiest tax to collect, but still.
I think it makes sense to try it and if it works great - but I don't think it will be the boost the economy needs.
You do it in a targeted manner. Dropping VAT on pubs makes a £6 pint £5. Leave the VAT on off sales though, make the supermarket booze relatively more expensive.
A pint being a £1 cheaper is going to make sod all difference to the economy at large.
Not only will it save you money on your night out, it will also support hundreds of thousands of jobs in the industry most affected by the current epidemic.
Personally I’d drop VAT on most services too, help get the nation back to work.
A few quid saved on a night out isn't going to kick start the economy.
Basically I think the economy is fucked - and I think small things aren't going to save it.
Employer NI next on the list then - literally a tax on jobs.
What distinguishes it from employee NICs?
It’s a hidden tax which means it’s taken the brunt of all hidden tax rises over the past 15 years.
For those in IT IR35 is still only a problem because of the amount of money employer NI now raises it’s something like £40bn.
Oh, and while we are talking of tax cuts, definitely scrap IR35 - perhaps the worst thought through piece of taxation in decades. Government should be encouraging entrepreneurship, not making it more expensive than regular employment.
Entrepreneurship? Yeah, right.
The guys who sat in the same office as me every day were not entrepreneurs, they were tax dodgers. And my then employers were complicit in the process.
So did they have holiday and sick pay? Were they on a career path? Were they still there two years later? Or were they brought in because of specific skills for a relatively short period?
Some were there when I joined and still there when I left. Multiple years of continuous work in the same office. And, yes, some were 'promoted' to more senior roles as contractors.
The reasons for contracting being popular are interesting.
- Paying people more than their managers. This taboo doesn't seem to cover contractors. - Reducing headcount, in a stupid checkbox manner. Because of the stupid way that costs are often allocated, contractors don't count. - The flexibility is actually the least used, in much of IT contracting.
The problem is that quite a lot of people and companies have built their structures around this behaviour.
So to judge from the betting market, that's a launch anti-bounce for Trump. He must be miffed that Antifa stopped 990,000 keen supporters among the 1 million who applied for tickets from making it to the hall.
Rallies did a lot for him last time. This time, they don't work. What else has he got?
I assumed the sparse crowd at Tulsa was due to even the most committed Trumpeter not being willing to get infected for the cause. Having poked my nose into the Youtube video I discover the rally went on for four hours, two and a half hours of warmed-over acts by Trump campaign staff no-one has heard of, followed by one and a half hours of stream of semi-consciousness by the great man himself. The crowd was stupefied by boredom, and that those were the activists.
Off topic: whilst out to get a coffee, I saw two A400Ms inbound to Newcastle Airport. One made what looked to be a hell of an aborted landing. They are foreboding yet majestic aircraft.
Wow, yeah. It's done six approaches so far, either go-arounds or touch-and-goes. A400M out of Brize Norton. Some sort of a training mission maybe? https://www.flightradar24.com/ASCOT491/24bf8738
I must have seen the same one twice! It had its landing gear down and was very low. Odd one! Good experience though.
He's certainly having a fun Sunday afternoon, that's for sure! No idea why though.
I was just messaging with my brother who mentioned a big grey plane flying around, he lives in Seaton.
Round my way, we had a few massive A380s flying circuits last week - they've been grounded for ages, so they need to stop planes and pilots from becoming rusty.
Looks like it’s on its way home to Brize Norton now!
Im surprised there isn't more gloating about the empty seats in Oklahoma on here....
To be honest I do not listen to Trump anymore
My son and daughter in law in Vancouver have cancelled their cable subscription and do not listen to anything he says
He is not going to win, but I fear his successor is not going to succeed either even if he becomes POTUS
He IS going to succeed in the crucial area of becoming a President of the United States who is not Donald Trump. This in and of itself is a cause for great joy both here on Earth and in the Kingdom of Heaven.
I concur but Biden is no saviour
But he is! - from Trump.
Course, if the point is that he does not look the most inspirational of candidates, you will get no argument from me.
But WH2020 is (sadly) is a one issue election. Deliver us from this nightmare.
I suspect a VAT cut achieves sod all, as Brown found out (albeit his cut was a lot smaller than being proposed).
If the economy is in the toilet, which it is, people aren't going to spend spend spend and rescue it.
I dunno, I think it makes some sense. VAT is essentially a tax on spending and it seems odd to disincentivise spending in a capitalist economy. I know it’s one of the easiest tax to collect, but still.
I think it makes sense to try it and if it works great - but I don't think it will be the boost the economy needs.
You do it in a targeted manner. Dropping VAT on pubs makes a £6 pint £5. Leave the VAT on off sales though, make the supermarket booze relatively more expensive.
A pint being a £1 cheaper is going to make sod all difference to the economy at large.
Not only will it save you money on your night out, it will also support hundreds of thousands of jobs in the industry most affected by the current epidemic.
Personally I’d drop VAT on most services too, help get the nation back to work.
A few quid saved on a night out isn't going to kick start the economy.
Basically I think the economy is fucked - and I think small things aren't going to save it.
Employer NI next on the list then - literally a tax on jobs.
What distinguishes it from employee NICs?
It’s a hidden tax which means it’s taken the brunt of all hidden tax rises over the past 15 years.
For those in IT IR35 is still only a problem because of the amount of money employer NI now raises it’s something like £40bn.
Oh, and while we are talking of tax cuts, definitely scrap IR35 - perhaps the worst thought through piece of taxation in decades. Government should be encouraging entrepreneurship, not making it more expensive than regular employment.
Entrepreneurship? Yeah, right.
The guys who sat in the same office as me every day were not entrepreneurs, they were tax dodgers. And my then employers were complicit in the process.
So did they have holiday and sick pay? Were they on a career path? Were they still there two years later? Or were they brought in because of specific skills for a relatively short period?
Some were there when I joined and still there when I left. Multiple years of continuous work in the same office. And, yes, some were 'promoted' to more senior roles as contractors.
The reasons for contracting being popular are interesting.
- Paying people more than their managers. This taboo doesn't seem to cover contractors. - Reducing headcount, in a stupid checkbox manner. Because of the stupid way that costs are often allocated, contractors don't count. - The flexibility is actually the least used, in much of IT contracting.
The problem is that quite a lot of people and companies have built their structures around this behaviour.
Yes, and that includes the Civil Service and other parts of the public sector. It was a ruse started in the Cameron years - to reduce the Civil Service headcount and be seen to be tackling bloated bureaucracy, as posts became vacant in some projects they were not filled by CS employees but by contractors who were then not counted as CS employees. It was a con, reducing headcount of CS jobs but not actual money spent - I suspect real costs rose rather than fell. I believe a similar thing happened in the NHS, though not to the same extent.
Off topic: whilst out to get a coffee, I saw two A400Ms inbound to Newcastle Airport. One made what looked to be a hell of an aborted landing. They are foreboding yet majestic aircraft.
Wow, yeah. It's done six approaches so far, either go-arounds or touch-and-goes. A400M out of Brize Norton. Some sort of a training mission maybe? https://www.flightradar24.com/ASCOT491/24bf8738
I must have seen the same one twice! It had its landing gear down and was very low. Odd one! Good experience though.
He's certainly having a fun Sunday afternoon, that's for sure! No idea why though.
I was just messaging with my brother who mentioned a big grey plane flying around, he lives in Seaton.
Round my way, we had a few massive A380s flying circuits last week - they've been grounded for ages, so they need to stop planes and pilots from becoming rusty.
An A400M did a training flight like that a couple of weeks ago, did LGW, Edinburgh and Stornoway! Before heading home. Repeated go rounds and not quite landings.
I suspect a VAT cut achieves sod all, as Brown found out (albeit his cut was a lot smaller than being proposed).
If the economy is in the toilet, which it is, people aren't going to spend spend spend and rescue it.
I dunno, I think it makes some sense. VAT is essentially a tax on spending and it seems odd to disincentivise spending in a capitalist economy. I know it’s one of the easiest tax to collect, but still.
I think it makes sense to try it and if it works great - but I don't think it will be the boost the economy needs.
You do it in a targeted manner. Dropping VAT on pubs makes a £6 pint £5. Leave the VAT on off sales though, make the supermarket booze relatively more expensive.
A pint being a £1 cheaper is going to make sod all difference to the economy at large.
Not only will it save you money on your night out, it will also support hundreds of thousands of jobs in the industry most affected by the current epidemic.
Personally I’d drop VAT on most services too, help get the nation back to work.
A few quid saved on a night out isn't going to kick start the economy.
Basically I think the economy is fucked - and I think small things aren't going to save it.
Employer NI next on the list then - literally a tax on jobs.
What distinguishes it from employee NICs?
It’s a hidden tax which means it’s taken the brunt of all hidden tax rises over the past 15 years.
For those in IT IR35 is still only a problem because of the amount of money employer NI now raises it’s something like £40bn.
Oh, and while we are talking of tax cuts, definitely scrap IR35 - perhaps the worst thought through piece of taxation in decades. Government should be encouraging entrepreneurship, not making it more expensive than regular employment.
Entrepreneurship? Yeah, right.
The guys who sat in the same office as me every day were not entrepreneurs, they were tax dodgers. And my then employers were complicit in the process.
So did they have holiday and sick pay? Were they on a career path? Were they still there two years later? Or were they brought in because of specific skills for a relatively short period?
Some were there when I joined and still there when I left. Multiple years of continuous work in the same office. And, yes, some were 'promoted' to more senior roles as contractors.
The reasons for contracting being popular are interesting.
- Paying people more than their managers. This taboo doesn't seem to cover contractors. - Reducing headcount, in a stupid checkbox manner. Because of the stupid way that costs are often allocated, contractors don't count. - The flexibility is actually the least used, in much of IT contracting.
The problem is that quite a lot of people and companies have built their structures around this behaviour.
That seems to be viewed from the organisations' point of view. I suppose that it must help them to achieve their ends in a financially advantageous manner or they wouldn't do it. From a contractor's point of view I would guess that freedom and ability to still be a 'techie' when older, not having to move to management role would come high on the list - probably ahead of the money. Out of the money one has to account for holidays, pensions, company expenses, probably extra travel and staying away from home plus times 'resting' between contracts.
Off topic: whilst out to get a coffee, I saw two A400Ms inbound to Newcastle Airport. One made what looked to be a hell of an aborted landing. They are foreboding yet majestic aircraft.
Wow, yeah. It's done six approaches so far, either go-arounds or touch-and-goes. A400M out of Brize Norton. Some sort of a training mission maybe? https://www.flightradar24.com/ASCOT491/24bf8738
I must have seen the same one twice! It had its landing gear down and was very low. Odd one! Good experience though.
He's certainly having a fun Sunday afternoon, that's for sure! No idea why though.
I was just messaging with my brother who mentioned a big grey plane flying around, he lives in Seaton.
Round my way, we had a few massive A380s flying circuits last week - they've been grounded for ages, so they need to stop planes and pilots from becoming rusty.
My old shipmate who is/was a B744 joystick actuator informs me that BA have cancelled his sim sessions and let his currency lapse. He then told me how he had once used 11 condoms on a 3 day trip to Lagos but only spent 40 quid and lamented that he will never know such days of wonder again.
I suspect a VAT cut achieves sod all, as Brown found out (albeit his cut was a lot smaller than being proposed).
If the economy is in the toilet, which it is, people aren't going to spend spend spend and rescue it.
I dunno, I think it makes some sense. VAT is essentially a tax on spending and it seems odd to disincentivise spending in a capitalist economy. I know it’s one of the easiest tax to collect, but still.
I think it makes sense to try it and if it works great - but I don't think it will be the boost the economy needs.
You do it in a targeted manner. Dropping VAT on pubs makes a £6 pint £5. Leave the VAT on off sales though, make the supermarket booze relatively more expensive.
A pint being a £1 cheaper is going to make sod all difference to the economy at large.
Not only will it save you money on your night out, it will also support hundreds of thousands of jobs in the industry most affected by the current epidemic.
Personally I’d drop VAT on most services too, help get the nation back to work.
A few quid saved on a night out isn't going to kick start the economy.
Basically I think the economy is fucked - and I think small things aren't going to save it.
Employer NI next on the list then - literally a tax on jobs.
What distinguishes it from employee NICs?
It’s a hidden tax which means it’s taken the brunt of all hidden tax rises over the past 15 years.
For those in IT IR35 is still only a problem because of the amount of money employer NI now raises it’s something like £40bn.
Oh, and while we are talking of tax cuts, definitely scrap IR35 - perhaps the worst thought through piece of taxation in decades. Government should be encouraging entrepreneurship, not making it more expensive than regular employment.
Entrepreneurship? Yeah, right.
The guys who sat in the same office as me every day were not entrepreneurs, they were tax dodgers. And my then employers were complicit in the process.
So did they have holiday and sick pay? Were they on a career path? Were they still there two years later? Or were they brought in because of specific skills for a relatively short period?
Some were there when I joined and still there when I left. Multiple years of continuous work in the same office. And, yes, some were 'promoted' to more senior roles as contractors.
The reasons for contracting being popular are interesting.
- Paying people more than their managers. This taboo doesn't seem to cover contractors. - Reducing headcount, in a stupid checkbox manner. Because of the stupid way that costs are often allocated, contractors don't count. - The flexibility is actually the least used, in much of IT contracting.
The problem is that quite a lot of people and companies have built their structures around this behaviour.
Yes, and that includes the Civil Service and other parts of the public sector. It was a ruse started in the Cameron years - to reduce the Civil Service headcount and be seen to be tackling bloated bureaucracy, as posts became vacant in some projects they were not filled by CS employees but by contractors who were then not counted as CS employees. It was a con, reducing headcount of CS jobs but not actual money spent - I suspect real costs rose rather than fell. I believe a similar thing happened in the NHS, though not to the same extent.
The Civil Service was just late to the game. This started in the private sector (in a big way) in the 90s.
The point about pay is quite important - the Civil Service flatly refused to allow employees to be paid by skill, rather than seniority.
Off topic: whilst out to get a coffee, I saw two A400Ms inbound to Newcastle Airport. One made what looked to be a hell of an aborted landing. They are foreboding yet majestic aircraft.
Wow, yeah. It's done six approaches so far, either go-arounds or touch-and-goes. A400M out of Brize Norton. Some sort of a training mission maybe? https://www.flightradar24.com/ASCOT491/24bf8738
We’ve had them in Guernsey too - the RAF taking advantage of there being so little commercial traffic
Off topic: whilst out to get a coffee, I saw two A400Ms inbound to Newcastle Airport. One made what looked to be a hell of an aborted landing. They are foreboding yet majestic aircraft.
Wow, yeah. It's done six approaches so far, either go-arounds or touch-and-goes. A400M out of Brize Norton. Some sort of a training mission maybe? https://www.flightradar24.com/ASCOT491/24bf8738
I must have seen the same one twice! It had its landing gear down and was very low. Odd one! Good experience though.
He's certainly having a fun Sunday afternoon, that's for sure! No idea why though.
I was just messaging with my brother who mentioned a big grey plane flying around, he lives in Seaton.
Round my way, we had a few massive A380s flying circuits last week - they've been grounded for ages, so they need to stop planes and pilots from becoming rusty.
My old shipmate who is/was a B744 joystick actuator informs me that BA have cancelled his sim sessions and let his currency lapse. He then told me how he had once used 11 condoms on a 3 day trip to Lagos but only spent 40 quid and lamented that he will never know such days of wonder again.
I dunno, I reckon the whole airline industry is going to be screwed even more imposingly than that.
Interesting article on VAT in the Sunday Times to boost the economy.
I'd say cut it to 10% for 18 months. When you're £400bn in the hole it's not the time to play it safe for the sake of saving another £40bn, at the cost of staying there forever.
You need to make some big moves.
Cut taxes on employment if you want tax cuts.
But cutting taxes on imported consumer tat will just bring forward some spending which was going to happen anyway.
Bringing forward spending is precisely the point because it keeps businesses going whilst the economy is artificially depressed whilst the Coronavirus is still real and present. Those businesses then survive to pay back tax when things recover, and thus part of the economy and tax base is saved.
There might be other measures too. But ultimately businesses need customers and need to make it attractive for them to spend and buy, not horde.
Exactly right.
But, you are wasting your breath on Another Richard. He is a hair shirt paleo conservative who thinks we are best served by forties style make do and mend, while living a low-rent existence in Mansfield.
I assumed the sparse crowd at Tulsa was due to even the most committed Trumpeter not being willing to get infected for the cause. Having poked my nose into the Youtube video I discover the rally went on for four hours, two and a half hours of warmed-over acts by Trump campaign staff no-one has heard of, followed by one and a half hours of stream of semi-consciousness by the great man himself. The crowd was stupefied by boredom, and that those were the activists.
No - they issued a nearly million tickets - but many of those were to teens who had no intention of going and organised the sabotage via tiktok - they had an “overflow” area with no one in it. 6,200 in a 19,000 stadium.
Encouraging pirating doesn't seem like a sensible thing to tweet from a blue checkmark.
Piracy would involve someone else making an illegitimate profit from it wouldn't it?
Replication and distribution without consent of the rights owner is copyright infringement regardless of profit I believe. Whether its a criminal offence I don’t really know, but it’s certainly a civil wrong.
I didn't realise this site was so obsessed with Scottish Independence.
You should be too. Without Scotland's anti-Tory vote, the rest of us are lumbered with Boris till we drop.
Actually, in most [edit] 1950s to date Westminster elections, the Scots made no difference to the result (usually Tory - ergo not what they voted for).
Encouraging pirating doesn't seem like a sensible thing to tweet from a blue checkmark.
Piracy would involve someone else making an illegitimate profit from it wouldn't it?
No, when it comes to ripping digital IP, no profit motive is required for it still to be piracy. Plenty of people have had to pay legal settlements for even just connecting to say a torrent swarm of some digital IP (not even downloading it all or viewing it).
And most of the top tier pirating groups of movie / games don't even do it for money, it is all about the street cred and being in the cool gang of those getting everything first.
What’s shifted the markets is the Florida situation. I believe Trump has failed to record a lead in any poll there since March (can’t be bothered to check).
I suspect a VAT cut achieves sod all, as Brown found out (albeit his cut was a lot smaller than being proposed).
If the economy is in the toilet, which it is, people aren't going to spend spend spend and rescue it.
I dunno, I think it makes some sense. VAT is essentially a tax on spending and it seems odd to disincentivise spending in a capitalist economy. I know it’s one of the easiest tax to collect, but still.
I think it makes sense to try it and if it works great - but I don't think it will be the boost the economy needs.
You do it in a targeted manner. Dropping VAT on pubs makes a £6 pint £5. Leave the VAT on off sales though, make the supermarket booze relatively more expensive.
A pint being a £1 cheaper is going to make sod all difference to the economy at large.
Not only will it save you money on your night out, it will also support hundreds of thousands of jobs in the industry most affected by the current epidemic.
Personally I’d drop VAT on most services too, help get the nation back to work.
A few quid saved on a night out isn't going to kick start the economy.
Basically I think the economy is fucked - and I think small things aren't going to save it.
Employer NI next on the list then - literally a tax on jobs.
What distinguishes it from employee NICs?
It’s a hidden tax which means it’s taken the brunt of all hidden tax rises over the past 15 years.
For those in IT IR35 is still only a problem because of the amount of money employer NI now raises it’s something like £40bn.
Oh, and while we are talking of tax cuts, definitely scrap IR35 - perhaps the worst thought through piece of taxation in decades. Government should be encouraging entrepreneurship, not making it more expensive than regular employment.
Entrepreneurship? Yeah, right.
The guys who sat in the same office as me every day were not entrepreneurs, they were tax dodgers. And my then employers were complicit in the process.
So did they have holiday and sick pay? Were they on a career path? Were they still there two years later? Or were they brought in because of specific skills for a relatively short period?
The trouble is it varies so much. I once met a guy who had literally sat at the same desk for nine years writing code for a major telecoms company - as a contractor.
Yes, there are absuses, and white-collar contractors such as in IT should be hired on a project basis, but the current and proposed IR35 rules are using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. It's great if you're a tax accountant or employment lawyer, but not if you're a contractor or contracting company.
Yes
I’m Not Trump
Is one of those great three-word pithy campaign slogans that Dommo Cummings would be proud of.
Off topic: whilst out to get a coffee, I saw two A400Ms inbound to Newcastle Airport. One made what looked to be a hell of an aborted landing. They are foreboding yet majestic aircraft.
Wow, yeah. It's done six approaches so far, either go-arounds or touch-and-goes. A400M out of Brize Norton. Some sort of a training mission maybe? https://www.flightradar24.com/ASCOT491/24bf8738
I must have seen the same one twice! It had its landing gear down and was very low. Odd one! Good experience though.
He's certainly having a fun Sunday afternoon, that's for sure! No idea why though.
I was just messaging with my brother who mentioned a big grey plane flying around, he lives in Seaton.
Round my way, we had a few massive A380s flying circuits last week - they've been grounded for ages, so they need to stop planes and pilots from becoming rusty.
My old shipmate who is/was a B744 joystick actuator informs me that BA have cancelled his sim sessions and let his currency lapse. He then told me how he had once used 11 condoms on a 3 day trip to Lagos but only spent 40 quid and lamented that he will never know such days of wonder again.
LOL, I think I'm supposed to say sorry that your friend appears to be in the redundancy pile (along with the whole Speedbird Queen fleet by the sound of things), but he comes across as having had a long and enjoyable career!
What’s shifted the markets is the Florida situation. I believe Trump has failed to record a lead in any poll there since March (can’t be bothered to check).
One that I missed last week - at least some people of influence are more interested in doing things for diversity in their profession, rather than just talking about them.
Off topic: whilst out to get a coffee, I saw two A400Ms inbound to Newcastle Airport. One made what looked to be a hell of an aborted landing. They are foreboding yet majestic aircraft.
Wow, yeah. It's done six approaches so far, either go-arounds or touch-and-goes. A400M out of Brize Norton. Some sort of a training mission maybe? https://www.flightradar24.com/ASCOT491/24bf8738
I must have seen the same one twice! It had its landing gear down and was very low. Odd one! Good experience though.
He's certainly having a fun Sunday afternoon, that's for sure! No idea why though.
I was just messaging with my brother who mentioned a big grey plane flying around, he lives in Seaton.
Round my way, we had a few massive A380s flying circuits last week - they've been grounded for ages, so they need to stop planes and pilots from becoming rusty.
My old shipmate who is/was a B744 joystick actuator informs me that BA have cancelled his sim sessions and let his currency lapse. He then told me how he had once used 11 condoms on a 3 day trip to Lagos but only spent 40 quid and lamented that he will never know such days of wonder again.
I dunno, I reckon the whole airline industry is going to be screwed even more imposingly than that.
BA are looking to bin everyone (pilots and cabin crew) on older, better paid contracts. The modern pay levels for pilots would startle many here, I think.
And not in the sense of wonder at giant piles of money - more "Christ, Tube drivers can get more than that"....
Thanks to @Casino_Royale for a nice header. It well articulates many sentiments that most people (including me) would agree with. But let's focus on the main message - that we need more and better dialogue about the subject of racism.
We do. Everyone says this. But do they really mean it? Or is it a piece of motherhood and apple pie deflection? You know, along the lines of the notorious platitude, "the way to prevent affluent people using private schools is to make state schools so good that they don't want to."
Because it seems to me that for those who constantly deride anti-racist campaigners as the "woke brigade" more conversation about racism - indeed any conversation about racism - is precisely what they do not want. It exasperates. It bores. Why? Because in truth they feel the problem is at best wildly exaggerated and at worst a grievance narrative invented by a Left obsessed with identity politics.
Either that or they suspect there is a problem but would prefer to shy away from it since it creates queasiness to consider there might - there just might - be a lingering, deep-seated racist legacy from Empire, Slavery & Colonialism which we need to face up to in order to realize the "colour blind" future that almost everyone (I think sincerely) wishes to see.
So rather than put in the hard yards to confront the issue - which could be difficult and unpleasant but would have a chance of paying real dividends - what they seek to do instead is pretend it isn't there. Not so much "let's talk about racism" - it's "let's talk about anything except racism." The desire is to close the subject down. Cards used - invention, extrapolation, deflection, ridicule.
We see it time and time again on here.
The reaction to a statue of a slaver coming down? - The evergreen "Oh FFS what's next?" plus a cry of "Mob rule, lock em up!"
To the N word removed from a TV show? - "Oh FFS, what's next?" plus "How come Kanye West can say it? It's not fair! No consistency!"
To an anti-racist # of Black Lives Matter - "Yeah, so how come they don't talk about all the blacks killing other blacks?"
In other words - long story short - I like the message of more dialogue on racism in this header but I question the good faith of those on here who are probably applauding it the most strongly. Since they are the very people who in practice demonstrate to me the opposite tendency.
Perhaps there's many issues relating to race in the modern world you prefer not to discuss ?
So you keep retreating to your 18th century comfort zone.
Please start such a discussion. I will be pleased to contribute.
Well CR already has but I've also made comments today about the issue and how it affected by class, housing affordability, the specific inequality issues areas of large Afro-Caribbean communities have and what the consequences covid might be.
You'll find them timed at 10:56, 11:18, 11:34 and 11:38.
You make some good and interesting points about class and exploitation.
But since your thrust is to argue that racism is - relatively speaking - not a material factor in this I don't know what you meant by suggesting that I wish to avoid discussing "many issues relating to race in the modern world."
You would have to float one or two and see if I avoid responding.
Well here goes:
How are Afro-Caribbean people affected by racism in comparison with those of African background or those of Asian background (Asian generally or type of Asian if more detail is wanted) ?
Are people who migrate more or less successful if they congregate within an immigrant community or if they disperse into the wider community ? Does this also apply to subsequent generations of that immigrant community ? Does the location of the immigrant community matter - expensive cities or cheaper towns ?
Is gender equality driven by racism ? White middle class men giving jobs to white middle class women in preference to black working class men.
Is racism fundamentally tolerated by the urban middle class because of the economic necessity of having an easily exploited workforce ?
OK. So in order -
1. Interesting question. To what extent is (say) black and muslim underachievement due to them facing greater racism than other groups, as opposed to them being (for whatever reason) less able to rise above it and succeed regardless? I think it's mainly down to racism but it's complex because the one affects the other and you can get a vicious circle. For example, the more you are knocked back, the more likely you are to stop trying. You can also get virtuous circles and these are what we want to get going.
2. Another interesting question. Does a determined attempt to integrate into the host society pay dividends for incomers and their descendants? My strong sense would be yes. Yes it does. Therefore such integration - especially English language skills - should be encouraged whilst maintaining respect for difference. Carrot not stick.
3. No. Gender equality is not driven by racism. That (imo) is you overthinking it and stretching for a conclusion you quite like. Gender equality in the workplace - which we do not yet have btw - is driven by feminist activism over the years and by straightforward economic necessity. If we do not fully utilize the talents of women we will fall behind places that do. Look at some parts of the muslim world to see what a drag - in both senses of the word - the exclusion of women from "man's important work" is.
4. No. Racism is not specifically or especially tolerated by the urban middle class because of the economic necessity of having an easily exploited workforce. If we want to go big picture, I'd suggest that unfettered capitalism will always lead to mass exploitation and that those exploited will (for many reasons, including the legacy of colonialism) contain a disproportionate proportion of people who are other than white.
There are several points upon which we agree, particularly in your core message of forgiveness. Forgiveness is not really for the forgiven, as most people think, it's for the forgiver. Without it, we can never truly move beyond the injustice that has been committed against us.
Where I feel we agree less is in solutions. Your solution, in common with most commentators, is to focus on this issue more, in hopes of *solving* it. 'One more push' and we will solve this issue and all move toward the sunlit uplands in harmony. Evidence would suggest this is simply not the case. There is a limit to which one can uplift anyone by attempting to make oneself as unhappy as they are. That may result in temporary comfort, but not a lasting solution. There is a limit to which we can solve the problem of a widely perceived lack, by concentrating on that lack, rather than the abundance of opportunity and good in our country that is going unnoticed whilst we gaze into our navels.
What is the lasting solution? Here are my (obviously flawed and human) suggestions.
1. Recognise our fundamental brother/sisterhood. We are one human species. All of our colours and creeds are winners, because we have survived, and the real victory of human life is the propagation of the species - generation after generation of healthy offspring. We are wonderfully adapted in different ways to the environments of our forebears, and that should be celebrated rather than ignored, but there is no superiority or inferiority. This seems like a very basic point, but I'm not sure it is really and truly believed, by all, regardless of their position in this debate.
2. We need to expect the best from everyone. The law must be upheld without fear or favour, and it must be totally colourblind. Attempts by police officers and social workers to 'understand' and apply the law more selectively have been disastrous, and have tended to be wholly counterproductive, because the eventual ghastly circumstances have served to reinforce negative cultural and racial stereotyping. We must also expect the best from everyone in education. We all, teachers, families, Government, businesses, bear a responsibility to ensure that black pupils have the opportunity to excel, and then believe they can do it, and instil that belief. That must not include adjusting outcomes. Again, that is a hugely damaging practise, that can only reinforce the negative perceptions it is designed to overcome.
3. We need to focus on health. As I've been saying here for a while, we need a big re-awakening nationally regarding health and nutrition. We all need that, but it could be of particular benefit to BAME communities. Black and brown skins are particularly adept at shielding against sunlight. In Northern Europe, this has the unfortunate effect of limiting the creation by the body of Vitamin D, leading to a higher prevalence of all sorts of lifestyle diseases - especially if, for cultural reasons, a large proportion of the skin is not exposed to the sun. Another, more challenging issue affecting particularly (but not exclusively) the Muslim community, is first cousin marriage, which leads to a host of undesirable health outcomes. We should have an adult conversation about these health issues, and look for practical solutions to ensure that we all get the healthy lives we are supposed to.
4. We all need to turn our energies and thoughts elsewhere. We currently have a war on terror, and a war on drugs. In both of those wars, we seem to be getting properly drubbed, with no end in sight. There is a metaphysical argument that by focusing on something we make it bigger. Whether or not this is true, it is certainly true that to truly move on from anything, we need to concentrate on something else. I've recently been watching Lucy Worsley's excellent series on The Georgians. The explosion of commerce in that era succeeded in sweeping away much of the sectarian conflict that had been rampant, leading Defoe to write 'There is no Protestant and Catholic in a good bargain.' There is no black or white or brown in a good bargain. I don't believe we can heal our differences by picking at the sores.
Off topic: whilst out to get a coffee, I saw two A400Ms inbound to Newcastle Airport. One made what looked to be a hell of an aborted landing. They are foreboding yet majestic aircraft.
Wow, yeah. It's done six approaches so far, either go-arounds or touch-and-goes. A400M out of Brize Norton. Some sort of a training mission maybe? https://www.flightradar24.com/ASCOT491/24bf8738
I must have seen the same one twice! It had its landing gear down and was very low. Odd one! Good experience though.
He's certainly having a fun Sunday afternoon, that's for sure! No idea why though.
I was just messaging with my brother who mentioned a big grey plane flying around, he lives in Seaton.
Round my way, we had a few massive A380s flying circuits last week - they've been grounded for ages, so they need to stop planes and pilots from becoming rusty.
My old shipmate who is/was a B744 joystick actuator informs me that BA have cancelled his sim sessions and let his currency lapse. He then told me how he had once used 11 condoms on a 3 day trip to Lagos but only spent 40 quid and lamented that he will never know such days of wonder again.
I dunno, I reckon the whole airline industry is going to be screwed even more imposingly than that.
BA are looking to bin everyone (pilots and cabin crew) on older, better paid contracts. The modern pay levels for pilots would startle many here, I think.
And not in the sense of wonder at giant piles of money - more "Christ, Tube drivers can get more than that"....
Yeah, there's quite a few £200k captains out there, and £60-70k hosties on old contracts. New pilots, as you say, earn less than tube drivers while they sit in the right hand seat.
Biden borrowing from the Obama electoral playbook, apparently with a degree of success:
Trump allies see a mounting threat: Biden’s rising evangelical support https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/21/trump-allies-see-threat-biden-evangelical-support-330780 ... Biden, a lifelong Catholic, has performed better in recent polling among white evangelicals — and other religious groups — than Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton did in 2016, and is widely perceived as more religious than the current White House occupant. A Pew Research study conducted earlier this year showed that a majority of U.S. adults (63 percent) think Trump is “not at all” or “not too religious,” versus 55 percent who said they believed Biden is somewhat or very religious....
Well, I want to get my bathroom done. If VAT is cut for a year to 10% then I'll be all over that like a rash as on a £6k refurb I'll pay only £600 tax rather than £1.2k - so it's a big incentive.
That should benefit British manufacturers and fitters more than anyone else, and they can then spend my money in turn.
Not really, most of our consumer goods are imported so any increase in purchasing is limited to retail and distribution. The majority of the gain in purchasing volumes is made by China, Japan, Europe and South Korea. A zero rating of VAT on consumer services like hairdressing or going to the pub makes the most sense to me, it won't cost a huge amount and we direct the tax cuts towards the part of the economy that needs the biggest boost.
I think we're seeing various trial balloons tested - another one recently was lowering employers' NI contributions. Cutting all VAT feels a bit too broad brush if the purpose is to save small companies and get people back to work.
Thanks to @Casino_Royale for a nice header. It well articulates many sentiments that most people (including me) would agree with. But let's focus on the main message - that we need more and better dialogue about the subject of racism.
We do. Everyone says this. But do they really mean it? Or is it a piece of motherhood and apple pie deflection? You know, along the lines of the notorious platitude, "the way to prevent affluent people using private schools is to make state schools so good that they don't want to."
Because it seems to me that for those who constantly deride anti-racist campaigners as the "woke brigade" more conversation about racism - indeed any conversation about racism - is precisely what they do not want. It exasperates. It bores. Why? Because in truth they feel the problem is at best wildly exaggerated and at worst a grievance narrative invented by a Left obsessed with identity politics.
Either that or they suspect there is a problem but would prefer to shy away from it since it creates queasiness to consider there might - there just might - be a lingering, deep-seated racist legacy from Empire, Slavery & Colonialism which we need to face up to in order to realize the "colour blind" future that almost everyone (I think sincerely) wishes to see.
So rather than put in the hard yards to confront the issue - which could be difficult and unpleasant but would have a chance of paying real dividends - what they seek to do instead is pretend it isn't there. Not so much "let's talk about racism" - it's "let's talk about anything except racism." The desire is to close the subject down. Cards used - invention, extrapolation, deflection, ridicule.
We see it time and time again on here.
The reaction to a statue of a slaver coming down? - The evergreen "Oh FFS what's next?" plus a cry of "Mob rule, lock em up!"
To the N word removed from a TV show? - "Oh FFS, what's next?" plus "How come Kanye West can say it? It's not fair! No consistency!"
To an anti-racist # of Black Lives Matter - "Yeah, so how come they don't talk about all the blacks killing other blacks?"
In other words - long story short - I like the message of more dialogue on racism in this header but I question the good faith of those on here who are probably applauding it the most strongly. Since they are the very people who in practice demonstrate to me the opposite tendency.
Perhaps there's many issues relating to race in the modern world you prefer not to discuss ?
So you keep retreating to your 18th century comfort zone.
Please start such a discussion. I will be pleased to contribute.
Well CR already has but I've also made comments today about the issue and how it affected by class, housing affordability, the specific inequality issues areas of large Afro-Caribbean communities have and what the consequences covid might be.
You'll find them timed at 10:56, 11:18, 11:34 and 11:38.
You make some good and interesting points about class and exploitation.
But since your thrust is to argue that racism is - relatively speaking - not a material factor in this I don't know what you meant by suggesting that I wish to avoid discussing "many issues relating to race in the modern world."
You would have to float one or two and see if I avoid responding.
Well here goes:
How are Afro-Caribbean people affected by racism in comparison with those of African background or those of Asian background (Asian generally or type of Asian if more detail is wanted) ?
Are people who migrate more or less successful if they congregate within an immigrant community or if they disperse into the wider community ? Does this also apply to subsequent generations of that immigrant community ? Does the location of the immigrant community matter - expensive cities or cheaper towns ?
Is gender equality driven by racism ? White middle class men giving jobs to white middle class women in preference to black working class men.
Is racism fundamentally tolerated by the urban middle class because of the economic necessity of having an easily exploited workforce ?
OK. So in order -
1. Interesting question. To what extent is (say) black and muslim underachievement due to them facing greater racism than other groups, as opposed to them being (for whatever reason) less able to rise above it and succeed regardless? I think it's mainly down to racism but it's complex because the one affects the other and you can get a vicious circle. For example, the more you are knocked back, the more likely you are to stop trying. You can also get virtuous circles and these are what we want to get going.
2. Another interesting question. Does an determined attempt to integrate into the host society pay dividends for incomers and their descendants? My strong sense would be yes. Yes it does. Therefore such integration - especially English language skills - should be encouraged whilst maintaining respect for difference. Carrot not stick.
3. No. Gender equality is not driven by racism. That (imo) is you overthinking it and stretching for a conclusion you quite like. Gender equality in the workplace - which we do not yet have btw - is driven by feminist activism over the years and by straightforward economic necessity. If we do not fully utilize the talents of women we will fall behind places that do. Look at some parts of the muslim world to see what a drag - in both senses of the word - the exclusion of women from "man's important work" is.
4. No. Racism is not specifically or especially tolerated by the urban middle class because of the economic necessity of having an easily exploited workforce. If we want to go big picture, I'd suggest that unfettered capitalism will always lead to mass exploitation and that those exploited will (for many reasons, including the legacy of colonialism) contain a disproportionate proportion of people who are other than white.
EDIT - See? I'm discussing this stuff with you.
One other possibility is that race is not the crucial factor, but class. Working class Blacks, Whites and Asians get screwed. Middle class Blacks, Whites and Asians do all right.
'It appears the attack was stopped when a lone sergeant, who responded when the alarm was raised, ran to the scene, saw the attacker running away with a knife and rugby tackled him to the ground.'
This must be more of that unconscionable police brutality we've heard so much about. Let's give free rein to the people spraying 'ACAB' on the Cenotaph, shall we?
Complete and utter shite you must have a very sad mind whilst pretending to be some over educated posho who just likes to stir
As CR article illustrates most people are interested to have a rational discussion on the very complex issues that BLM throws up. BluestBlue and Eadric are only interested in stoking up hatred and division.
I quite understand your feelings - the left doesn't like the obvious lunacy of its militant wing being pointed out. But point it out I most certainly will.
Most people understand that there are idiots on both extremes, you are one of the few who try to use that as a wedge to create division and to further your own political agenda. You are a Trumpton and frankly I have no interest in debating anything with you.
Off topic: whilst out to get a coffee, I saw two A400Ms inbound to Newcastle Airport. One made what looked to be a hell of an aborted landing. They are foreboding yet majestic aircraft.
Wow, yeah. It's done six approaches so far, either go-arounds or touch-and-goes. A400M out of Brize Norton. Some sort of a training mission maybe? https://www.flightradar24.com/ASCOT491/24bf8738
I must have seen the same one twice! It had its landing gear down and was very low. Odd one! Good experience though.
He's certainly having a fun Sunday afternoon, that's for sure! No idea why though.
I was just messaging with my brother who mentioned a big grey plane flying around, he lives in Seaton.
Round my way, we had a few massive A380s flying circuits last week - they've been grounded for ages, so they need to stop planes and pilots from becoming rusty.
My old shipmate who is/was a B744 joystick actuator informs me that BA have cancelled his sim sessions and let his currency lapse. He then told me how he had once used 11 condoms on a 3 day trip to Lagos but only spent 40 quid and lamented that he will never know such days of wonder again.
I dunno, I reckon the whole airline industry is going to be screwed even more imposingly than that.
BA are looking to bin everyone (pilots and cabin crew) on older, better paid contracts. The modern pay levels for pilots would startle many here, I think.
And not in the sense of wonder at giant piles of money - more "Christ, Tube drivers can get more than that"....
A senior cabin crew friend was emailed his "exciting new offer" which "if he was lucky enough to be accepted" would halve his pay for longer hours and fewer holidays.
Off topic: whilst out to get a coffee, I saw two A400Ms inbound to Newcastle Airport. One made what looked to be a hell of an aborted landing. They are foreboding yet majestic aircraft.
Wow, yeah. It's done six approaches so far, either go-arounds or touch-and-goes. A400M out of Brize Norton. Some sort of a training mission maybe? https://www.flightradar24.com/ASCOT491/24bf8738
I must have seen the same one twice! It had its landing gear down and was very low. Odd one! Good experience though.
He's certainly having a fun Sunday afternoon, that's for sure! No idea why though.
I was just messaging with my brother who mentioned a big grey plane flying around, he lives in Seaton.
Round my way, we had a few massive A380s flying circuits last week - they've been grounded for ages, so they need to stop planes and pilots from becoming rusty.
My old shipmate who is/was a B744 joystick actuator informs me that BA have cancelled his sim sessions and let his currency lapse. He then told me how he had once used 11 condoms on a 3 day trip to Lagos but only spent 40 quid and lamented that he will never know such days of wonder again.
I dunno, I reckon the whole airline industry is going to be screwed even more imposingly than that.
BA are looking to bin everyone (pilots and cabin crew) on older, better paid contracts. The modern pay levels for pilots would startle many here, I think.
And not in the sense of wonder at giant piles of money - more "Christ, Tube drivers can get more than that"....
Yeah, there's quite a few £200k captains out there, and £60-70k hosties on old contracts. New pilots, as you say, earn less than tube drivers while they sit in the right hand seat.
Do (some) air hostesses earn £70k? Didn’t realise it was so well paid a job.
Off topic: whilst out to get a coffee, I saw two A400Ms inbound to Newcastle Airport. One made what looked to be a hell of an aborted landing. They are foreboding yet majestic aircraft.
Wow, yeah. It's done six approaches so far, either go-arounds or touch-and-goes. A400M out of Brize Norton. Some sort of a training mission maybe? https://www.flightradar24.com/ASCOT491/24bf8738
I must have seen the same one twice! It had its landing gear down and was very low. Odd one! Good experience though.
He's certainly having a fun Sunday afternoon, that's for sure! No idea why though.
I was just messaging with my brother who mentioned a big grey plane flying around, he lives in Seaton.
Round my way, we had a few massive A380s flying circuits last week - they've been grounded for ages, so they need to stop planes and pilots from becoming rusty.
My old shipmate who is/was a B744 joystick actuator informs me that BA have cancelled his sim sessions and let his currency lapse. He then told me how he had once used 11 condoms on a 3 day trip to Lagos but only spent 40 quid and lamented that he will never know such days of wonder again.
I dunno, I reckon the whole airline industry is going to be screwed even more imposingly than that.
BA are looking to bin everyone (pilots and cabin crew) on older, better paid contracts. The modern pay levels for pilots would startle many here, I think.
And not in the sense of wonder at giant piles of money - more "Christ, Tube drivers can get more than that"....
A senior cabin crew friend was emailed his "exciting new offer" which "if he was lucky enough to be accepted" would halve his pay for longer hours and fewer holidays.
I heard they were attempting to bin the entire long-haul cabin crew, and hire half of them back on "new" contracts. Can't imagine that going down too well at all.
Off topic: whilst out to get a coffee, I saw two A400Ms inbound to Newcastle Airport. One made what looked to be a hell of an aborted landing. They are foreboding yet majestic aircraft.
Wow, yeah. It's done six approaches so far, either go-arounds or touch-and-goes. A400M out of Brize Norton. Some sort of a training mission maybe? https://www.flightradar24.com/ASCOT491/24bf8738
I must have seen the same one twice! It had its landing gear down and was very low. Odd one! Good experience though.
He's certainly having a fun Sunday afternoon, that's for sure! No idea why though.
I was just messaging with my brother who mentioned a big grey plane flying around, he lives in Seaton.
Round my way, we had a few massive A380s flying circuits last week - they've been grounded for ages, so they need to stop planes and pilots from becoming rusty.
My old shipmate who is/was a B744 joystick actuator informs me that BA have cancelled his sim sessions and let his currency lapse. He then told me how he had once used 11 condoms on a 3 day trip to Lagos but only spent 40 quid and lamented that he will never know such days of wonder again.
I dunno, I reckon the whole airline industry is going to be screwed even more imposingly than that.
BA are looking to bin everyone (pilots and cabin crew) on older, better paid contracts. The modern pay levels for pilots would startle many here, I think.
And not in the sense of wonder at giant piles of money - more "Christ, Tube drivers can get more than that"....
Yeah, there's quite a few £200k captains out there, and £60-70k hosties on old contracts. New pilots, as you say, earn less than tube drivers while they sit in the right hand seat.
Do (some) air hostesses earn £70k? Didn’t realise it was so well paid a job.
The senior ones at BA can, as long-haul Cabin Service Director (purser) and with 20-30 years' service on very old contracts.
At the bottom end for lo-cos, it barely pays minimum wage
Mr. Pioneers, you remember the Scots voted to stay in the UK in a once in a generation vote, right?
That was six years ago.
... a generation in politics is a parliament and many have passed since then ...
@malcolmg - I am sympathetic, but even I think that statement is a stretch.....
Bev, no problem, however each election everything and anything is up for change, this pathetic diversion of trying to say it was written in law that a generation must pass is pathetic and encapsulates everything that is rotten and putrid in the unionists. Bunch of cowards desperate to keep Scotland under the yoke, so unsure of themselves they try to prevent a referendum, it speaks volumes of the cowards they are.
"Once in a generation" was a personal promise by Salmond.
It was in the SNP government's white paper, not once but twice:
Page 3: A once in a generation opportunity to follow a different path
Page 10: a once in a generation opportunity to chart a better way.
Thanks to @Casino_Royale for a nice header. It well articulates many sentiments that most people (including me) would agree with. But let's focus on the main message - that we need more and better dialogue about the subject of racism.
We do. Everyone says this. But do they really mean it? Or is it a piece of motherhood and apple pie deflection? You know, along the lines of the notorious platitude, "the way to prevent affluent people using private schools is to make state schools so good that they don't want to."
Because it seems to me that for those who constantly deride anti-racist campaigners as the "woke brigade" more conversation about racism - indeed any conversation about racism - is precisely what they do not want. It exasperates. It bores. Why? Because in truth they feel the problem is at best wildly exaggerated and at worst a grievance narrative invented by a Left obsessed with identity politics.
Either that or they suspect there is a problem but would prefer to shy away from it since it creates queasiness to consider there might - there just might - be a lingering, deep-seated racist legacy from Empire, Slavery & Colonialism which we need to face up to in order to realize the "colour blind" future that almost everyone (I think sincerely) wishes to see.
So rather than put in the hard yards to confront the issue - which could be difficult and unpleasant but would have a chance of paying real dividends - what they seek to do instead is pretend it isn't there. Not so much "let's talk about racism" - it's "let's talk about anything except racism." The desire is to close the subject down. Cards used - invention, extrapolation, deflection, ridicule.
We see it time and time again on here.
The reaction to a statue of a slaver coming down? - The evergreen "Oh FFS what's next?" plus a cry of "Mob rule, lock em up!"
To the N word removed from a TV show? - "Oh FFS, what's next?" plus "How come Kanye West can say it? It's not fair! No consistency!"
To an anti-racist # of Black Lives Matter - "Yeah, so how come they don't talk about all the blacks killing other blacks?"
In other words - long story short - I like the message of more dialogue on racism in this header but I question the good faith of those on here who are probably applauding it the most strongly. Since they are the very people who in practice demonstrate to me the opposite tendency.
Perhaps there's many issues relating to race in the modern world you prefer not to discuss ?
So you keep retreating to your 18th century comfort zone.
Please start such a discussion. I will be pleased to contribute.
Well CR already has but I've also made comments today about the issue and how it affected by class, housing affordability, the specific inequality issues areas of large Afro-Caribbean communities have and what the consequences covid might be.
You'll find them timed at 10:56, 11:18, 11:34 and 11:38.
You make some good and interesting points about class and exploitation.
But since your thrust is to argue that racism is - relatively speaking - not a material factor in this I don't know what you meant by suggesting that I wish to avoid discussing "many issues relating to race in the modern world."
You would have to float one or two and see if I avoid responding.
Well here goes:
How are Afro-Caribbean people affected by racism in comparison with those of African background or those of Asian background (Asian generally or type of Asian if more detail is wanted) ?
Are people who migrate more or less successful if they congregate within an immigrant community or if they disperse into the wider community ? Does this also apply to subsequent generations of that immigrant community ? Does the location of the immigrant community matter - expensive cities or cheaper towns ?
Is gender equality driven by racism ? White middle class men giving jobs to white middle class women in preference to black working class men.
Is racism fundamentally tolerated by the urban middle class because of the economic necessity of having an easily exploited workforce ?
OK. So in order -
1. Interesting question. To what extent is (say) black and muslim underachievement due to them facing greater racism than other groups, as opposed to them being (for whatever reason) less able to rise above it and succeed regardless? I think it's mainly down to racism but it's complex because the one affects the other and you can get a vicious circle. For example, the more you are knocked back, the more likely you are to stop trying. You can also get virtuous circles and these are what we want to get going.
2. Another interesting question. Does an determined attempt to integrate into the host society pay dividends for incomers and their descendants? My strong sense would be yes. Yes it does. Therefore such integration - especially English language skills - should be encouraged whilst maintaining respect for difference. Carrot not stick.
3. No. Gender equality is not driven by racism. That (imo) is you overthinking it and stretching for a conclusion you quite like. Gender equality in the workplace - which we do not yet have btw - is driven by feminist activism over the years and by straightforward economic necessity. If we do not fully utilize the talents of women we will fall behind places that do. Look at some parts of the muslim world to see what a drag - in both senses of the word - the exclusion of women from "man's important work" is.
4. No. Racism is not specifically or especially tolerated by the urban middle class because of the economic necessity of having an easily exploited workforce. If we want to go big picture, I'd suggest that unfettered capitalism will always lead to mass exploitation and that those exploited will (for many reasons, including the legacy of colonialism) contain a disproportionate proportion of people who are other than white.
EDIT - See? I'm discussing this stuff with you.
One other possibility is that race is not the crucial factor, but class. Working class Blacks, Whites and Asians get screwed. Middle class Blacks, Whites and Asians do all right.
I think class inequality is a bigger issue than racial inequality in this country in 2020. But they are linked to an extent and I do not agree with those who think it's ALL about class and that racism is a red herring.
Does not justify England's governments current attitude or the Scottish Government meekly accepting it.
There is no England government. Which is part of the problem.
Technically you are correct.
In practice, it feels like the "Provinces" have been given their Assemblies and Westminster governs for England. What is good for England is good for the UK, so to speak.
No, as there are still Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish MPs at Westminster.
Personally I have no problem with an English Parliament
Technically you are also correct. But it does not feel like that.
When are you going to grasp the fact that for Ordinary Joe/Joanne, perception is everything and facts are a long way down the list...
The facts are there is a UK Parliament at Westminster, a Scottish Parliament at Holyrood, a Welsh Assembly in Cardiff Bay and a Northern Ireland Assembly at Stormont but no English Parliament or Assembly.
As for perception 41% of English voters and 52% of Leave voters do indeed want an English Parliament
Covid has demonstrated very starkly that in so many areas the Westminster government only governs England. Most notably, Hancock is England's Secretary of State for Health.
The surest route to Scottish independence is to give the English a vote on it.
Feck all to do with them, if they want to be independent then they should have an England vote. Scottish independence is purely for Scotland to decide.
Off topic: whilst out to get a coffee, I saw two A400Ms inbound to Newcastle Airport. One made what looked to be a hell of an aborted landing. They are foreboding yet majestic aircraft.
Wow, yeah. It's done six approaches so far, either go-arounds or touch-and-goes. A400M out of Brize Norton. Some sort of a training mission maybe? https://www.flightradar24.com/ASCOT491/24bf8738
I must have seen the same one twice! It had its landing gear down and was very low. Odd one! Good experience though.
He's certainly having a fun Sunday afternoon, that's for sure! No idea why though.
I was just messaging with my brother who mentioned a big grey plane flying around, he lives in Seaton.
Round my way, we had a few massive A380s flying circuits last week - they've been grounded for ages, so they need to stop planes and pilots from becoming rusty.
My old shipmate who is/was a B744 joystick actuator informs me that BA have cancelled his sim sessions and let his currency lapse. He then told me how he had once used 11 condoms on a 3 day trip to Lagos but only spent 40 quid and lamented that he will never know such days of wonder again.
LOL, I think I'm supposed to say sorry that your friend appears to be in the redundancy pile (along with the whole Speedbird Queen fleet by the sound of things), but he comes across as having had a long and enjoyable career!
He is fucked financially. He has a mega mortgage, 2 kids at university and a not particularly understanding wife. Many years ago I had to break into his house while he was in San Diego and his wife was at work. My assignment was to steal the mail because he was convinced that a hostie he was shagging had written to his mrs. She had!
Mr. Pioneers, you remember the Scots voted to stay in the UK in a once in a generation vote, right?
That was six years ago.
... a generation in politics is a parliament and many have passed since then ...
@malcolmg - I am sympathetic, but even I think that statement is a stretch.....
Bev, no problem, however each election everything and anything is up for change, this pathetic diversion of trying to say it was written in law that a generation must pass is pathetic and encapsulates everything that is rotten and putrid in the unionists. Bunch of cowards desperate to keep Scotland under the yoke, so unsure of themselves they try to prevent a referendum, it speaks volumes of the cowards they are.
"Once in a generation" was a personal promise by Salmond. If we accept that *parliaments* cannot pass *laws* binding their successors why would we even pretend to think that the personal dicta of FMs can? We live under the rule of law, not the rule of the whims of Big Men. A breach of Salmond's undertaking would be personally dishonourable on the part of Salmond and anyone who adopted it last time round, but constitutionally it is irrelevant.
Exactly , yet you get halfwits like HYFUD trying to make out it is written in Law and can never be changed or even what is a generation. The unionists are running scared and as people like HYFUD get ever more shrill you know they are terrified.
Malc - the door is over there - if the Scottish people have the balls for it.
Not according to Westminster or our pathetic Scottish government
Off topic: whilst out to get a coffee, I saw two A400Ms inbound to Newcastle Airport. One made what looked to be a hell of an aborted landing. They are foreboding yet majestic aircraft.
Wow, yeah. It's done six approaches so far, either go-arounds or touch-and-goes. A400M out of Brize Norton. Some sort of a training mission maybe? https://www.flightradar24.com/ASCOT491/24bf8738
I must have seen the same one twice! It had its landing gear down and was very low. Odd one! Good experience though.
He's certainly having a fun Sunday afternoon, that's for sure! No idea why though.
I was just messaging with my brother who mentioned a big grey plane flying around, he lives in Seaton.
Round my way, we had a few massive A380s flying circuits last week - they've been grounded for ages, so they need to stop planes and pilots from becoming rusty.
My old shipmate who is/was a B744 joystick actuator informs me that BA have cancelled his sim sessions and let his currency lapse. He then told me how he had once used 11 condoms on a 3 day trip to Lagos but only spent 40 quid and lamented that he will never know such days of wonder again.
I used to frequent the Holiday Inn on Ikeja Island in the 1980s. £40 would have been remarkable value, even back then.
Off topic: whilst out to get a coffee, I saw two A400Ms inbound to Newcastle Airport. One made what looked to be a hell of an aborted landing. They are foreboding yet majestic aircraft.
Wow, yeah. It's done six approaches so far, either go-arounds or touch-and-goes. A400M out of Brize Norton. Some sort of a training mission maybe? https://www.flightradar24.com/ASCOT491/24bf8738
I must have seen the same one twice! It had its landing gear down and was very low. Odd one! Good experience though.
He's certainly having a fun Sunday afternoon, that's for sure! No idea why though.
I was just messaging with my brother who mentioned a big grey plane flying around, he lives in Seaton.
Round my way, we had a few massive A380s flying circuits last week - they've been grounded for ages, so they need to stop planes and pilots from becoming rusty.
My old shipmate who is/was a B744 joystick actuator informs me that BA have cancelled his sim sessions and let his currency lapse. He then told me how he had once used 11 condoms on a 3 day trip to Lagos but only spent 40 quid and lamented that he will never know such days of wonder again.
LOL, I think I'm supposed to say sorry that your friend appears to be in the redundancy pile (along with the whole Speedbird Queen fleet by the sound of things), but he comes across as having had a long and enjoyable career!
He is fucked financially. He has a mega mortgage, 2 kids at university and a not particularly understanding wife. Many years ago I had to break into his house while he was in San Diego and his wife was at work. My assignment was to steal the mail because he was convinced that a hostie he was shagging had written to his mrs. She had!
Oh dear. Well, China is where the real money’s at right now, $300k for captains and they’re hiring. $200k was the going rate in these parts, with somewhat more of a lifestyle, but they’re laying off at the moment. With a 744 rating there will always be plenty of opportunity as a freight dog. Good luck to him, he sounds like the adverturous type!
Does not justify England's governments current attitude or the Scottish Government meekly accepting it.
There is no England government. Which is part of the problem.
Technically you are correct.
In practice, it feels like the "Provinces" have been given their Assemblies and Westminster governs for England. What is good for England is good for the UK, so to speak.
No, as there are still Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish MPs at Westminster.
Personally I have no problem with an English Parliament
Technically you are also correct. But it does not feel like that.
When are you going to grasp the fact that for Ordinary Joe/Joanne, perception is everything and facts are a long way down the list...
The facts are there is a UK Parliament at Westminster, a Scottish Parliament at Holyrood, a Welsh Assembly in Cardiff Bay and a Northern Ireland Assembly at Stormont but no English Parliament or Assembly.
As for perception 41% of English voters and 52% of Leave voters do indeed want an English Parliament
Covid has demonstrated very starkly that in so many areas the Westminster government only governs England. Most notably, Hancock is England's Secretary of State for Health.
The surest route to Scottish independence is to give the English a vote on it.
Feck all to do with them, if they want to be independent then they should have an England vote. Scottish independence is purely for Scotland to decide.
Why is that? I say we give the English a vote on getting rid of you.
If indyref2 is inevitable, thank god Corbyn isn't in charge of the Labour party during it. He'd have given a couple of nonsensical speeches in Glasgow about solidarity and trade unionists in Cuba, and that would literally have been the sum total of Labour's campaign. As much as an irrelevance SLAB seem these days in Scotland, the result of any second indyref I think will depend very much on how hard Labour campaign against indy.
I'm assuming Labour will have learned their lesson about being the Tories' patsies in any 2nd referendum, though learning lessons doesn't seem to be SLab's strong point.
If you're from rUK Labour, though, you have a very strong reason to campaign against indy. A SLAB recovery means fuck all for you if it's taking place in an independent country. Starmer needs a SLAB recovery to take place with Scotland as still part of the UK, if it's to help him at all. And I think we both know that if UK Lab comes out strongly against indy, SLAB will follow.
SLab in the form of Ian Murray and Jackie Baillie have already come out strongly against indy and Indy ref 2, I think Starmer is taking his lead from them at the moment.
I haven't seen the workings of this last indy poll but the previous Panelbase had a third of current SLab voters say that they would vote Yes in a new referendum. It's not only that Starmer has to come up with some viable offer to these folk, but that it's also got to be convincing ie not some pie in the sky federalism by the year 2525 rubbish.
Oh great, the predictable immigrant bashing will start now
If the cap fits
Radicalised in prison?
SO called it last night on here, looking again like the now common backstory, small time criminal, prison, comes out, commits shocking terrorist act (with evidence of mental health issues).
Thanks to @Casino_Royale for a nice header. It well articulates many sentiments that most people (including me) would agree with. But let's focus on the main message - that we need more and better dialogue about the subject of racism.
We do. Everyone says this. But do they really mean it? Or is it a piece of motherhood and apple pie deflection? You know, along the lines of the notorious platitude, "the way to prevent affluent people using private schools is to make state schools so good that they don't want to."
Because it seems to me that for those who constantly deride anti-racist campaigners as the "woke brigade" more conversation about racism - indeed any conversation about racism - is precisely what they do not want. It exasperates. It bores. Why? Because in truth they feel the problem is at best wildly exaggerated and at worst a grievance narrative invented by a Left obsessed with identity politics.
Either that or they suspect there is a problem but would prefer to shy away from it since it creates queasiness to consider there might - there just might - be a lingering, deep-seated racist legacy from Empire, Slavery & Colonialism which we need to face up to in order to realize the "colour blind" future that almost everyone (I think sincerely) wishes to see.
So rather than put in the hard yards to confront the issue - which could be difficult and unpleasant but would have a chance of paying real dividends - what they seek to do instead is pretend it isn't there. Not so much "let's talk about racism" - it's "let's talk about anything except racism." The desire is to close the subject down. Cards used - invention, extrapolation, deflection, ridicule.
We see it time and time again on here.
The reaction to a statue of a slaver coming down? - The evergreen "Oh FFS what's next?" plus a cry of "Mob rule, lock em up!"
To the N word removed from a TV show? - "Oh FFS, what's next?" plus "How come Kanye West can say it? It's not fair! No consistency!"
To an anti-racist # of Black Lives Matter - "Yeah, so how come they don't talk about all the blacks killing other blacks?"
In other words - long story short - I like the message of more dialogue on racism in this header but I question the good faith of those on here who are probably applauding it the most strongly. Since they are the very people who in practice demonstrate to me the opposite tendency.
Perhaps there's many issues relating to race in the modern world you prefer not to discuss ?
So you keep retreating to your 18th century comfort zone.
Please start such a discussion. I will be pleased to contribute.
Well CR already has but I've also made comments today about the issue and how it affected by class, housing affordability, the specific inequality issues areas of large Afro-Caribbean communities have and what the consequences covid might be.
You'll find them timed at 10:56, 11:18, 11:34 and 11:38.
You make some good and interesting points about class and exploitation.
But since your thrust is to argue that racism is - relatively speaking - not a material factor in this I don't know what you meant by suggesting that I wish to avoid discussing "many issues relating to race in the modern world."
You would have to float one or two and see if I avoid responding.
Well here goes:
How are Afro-Caribbean people affected by racism in comparison with those of African background or those of Asian background (Asian generally or type of Asian if more detail is wanted) ?
Are people who migrate more or less successful if they congregate within an immigrant community or if they disperse into the wider community ? Does this also apply to subsequent generations of that immigrant community ? Does the location of the immigrant community matter - expensive cities or cheaper towns ?
Is gender equality driven by racism ? White middle class men giving jobs to white middle class women in preference to black working class men.
Is racism fundamentally tolerated by the urban middle class because of the economic necessity of having an easily exploited workforce ?
OK. So in order -
1. Interesting question. To what extent is (say) black and muslim underachievement due to them facing greater racism than other groups, as opposed to them being (for whatever reason) less able to rise above it and succeed regardless? I think it's mainly down to racism but it's complex because the one affects the other and you can get a vicious circle. For example, the more you are knocked back, the more likely you are to stop trying. You can also get virtuous circles and these are what we want to get going.
2. Another interesting question. Does an determined attempt to integrate into the host society pay dividends for incomers and their descendants? My strong sense would be yes. Yes it does. Therefore such integration - especially English language skills - should be encouraged whilst maintaining respect for difference. Carrot not stick.
3. No. Gender equality is not driven by racism. That (imo) is you overthinking it and stretching for a conclusion you quite like. Gender equality in the workplace - which we do not yet have btw - is driven by feminist activism over the years and by straightforward economic necessity. If we do not fully utilize the talents of women we will fall behind places that do. Look at some parts of the muslim world to see what a drag - in both senses of the word - the exclusion of women from "man's important work" is.
4. No. Racism is not specifically or especially tolerated by the urban middle class because of the economic necessity of having an easily exploited workforce. If we want to go big picture, I'd suggest that unfettered capitalism will always lead to mass exploitation and that those exploited will (for many reasons, including the legacy of colonialism) contain a disproportionate proportion of people who are other than white.
EDIT - See? I'm discussing this stuff with you.
One other possibility is that race is not the crucial factor, but class. Working class Blacks, Whites and Asians get screwed. Middle class Blacks, Whites and Asians do all right.
And yet Jews, Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, seem to do fine wherever they are an whatever their starting point.
Working class Jews are practically non-existent, yet they were around within living memory. Why is that?
My grandparents were working class jews. Escaped pogroms in Russia to come to the UK. Grandmother did not work, grandfather was a London taxi driver and served in the British Army during WW2. Their children managed to reach the middle classes due to university grants, and the ability to get onto the astronomical property ladder before it exploded.
Does not justify England's governments current attitude or the Scottish Government meekly accepting it.
There is no England government. Which is part of the problem.
Technically you are correct.
In practice, it feels like the "Provinces" have been given their Assemblies and Westminster governs for England. What is good for England is good for the UK, so to speak.
No, as there are still Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish MPs at Westminster.
Personally I have no problem with an English Parliament
Technically you are also correct. But it does not feel like that.
When are you going to grasp the fact that for Ordinary Joe/Joanne, perception is everything and facts are a long way down the list...
The facts are there is a UK Parliament at Westminster, a Scottish Parliament at Holyrood, a Welsh Assembly in Cardiff Bay and a Northern Ireland Assembly at Stormont but no English Parliament or Assembly.
As for perception 41% of English voters and 52% of Leave voters do indeed want an English Parliament
Covid has demonstrated very starkly that in so many areas the Westminster government only governs England. Most notably, Hancock is England's Secretary of State for Health.
The surest route to Scottish independence is to give the English a vote on it.
Feck all to do with them, if they want to be independent then they should have an England vote. Scottish independence is purely for Scotland to decide.
Why is that? I say we give the English a vote on getting rid of you.
Unless you're Dominic Cummings, the chances of your government finding the balls to offer yourselves a vote on dissolving the UK are sub optimal when the idea of giving the Jocks one makes them shit their pants.
Does not justify England's governments current attitude or the Scottish Government meekly accepting it.
There is no England government. Which is part of the problem.
Technically you are correct.
In practice, it feels like the "Provinces" have been given their Assemblies and Westminster governs for England. What is good for England is good for the UK, so to speak.
No, as there are still Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish MPs at Westminster.
Personally I have no problem with an English Parliament
Technically you are also correct. But it does not feel like that.
When are you going to grasp the fact that for Ordinary Joe/Joanne, perception is everything and facts are a long way down the list...
The facts are there is a UK Parliament at Westminster, a Scottish Parliament at Holyrood, a Welsh Assembly in Cardiff Bay and a Northern Ireland Assembly at Stormont but no English Parliament or Assembly.
As for perception 41% of English voters and 52% of Leave voters do indeed want an English Parliament
Covid has demonstrated very starkly that in so many areas the Westminster government only governs England. Most notably, Hancock is England's Secretary of State for Health.
The surest route to Scottish independence is to give the English a vote on it.
Feck all to do with them, if they want to be independent then they should have an England vote. Scottish independence is purely for Scotland to decide.
Why is that? I say we give the English a vote on getting rid of you.
The English can legitimately vote on leaving the UK. Not quite the same thing, and morally very different.
Thanks to @Casino_Royale for a nice header. It well articulates many sentiments that most people (including me) would agree with. But let's focus on the main message - that we need more and better dialogue about the subject of racism.
We do. Everyone says this. But do they really mean it? Or is it a piece of motherhood and apple pie deflection? You know, along the lines of the notorious platitude, "the way to prevent affluent people using private schools is to make state schools so good that they don't want to."
Because it seems to me that for those who constantly deride anti-racist campaigners as the "woke brigade" more conversation about racism - indeed any conversation about racism - is precisely what they do not want. It exasperates. It bores. Why? Because in truth they feel the problem is at best wildly exaggerated and at worst a grievance narrative invented by a Left obsessed with identity politics.
Either that or they suspect there is a problem but would prefer to shy away from it since it creates queasiness to consider there might - there just might - be a lingering, deep-seated racist legacy from Empire, Slavery & Colonialism which we need to face up to in order to realize the "colour blind" future that almost everyone (I think sincerely) wishes to see.
So rather than put in the hard yards to confront the issue - which could be difficult and unpleasant but would have a chance of paying real dividends - what they seek to do instead is pretend it isn't there. Not so much "let's talk about racism" - it's "let's talk about anything except racism." The desire is to close the subject down. Cards used - invention, extrapolation, deflection, ridicule.
We see it time and time again on here.
The reaction to a statue of a slaver coming down? - The evergreen "Oh FFS what's next?" plus a cry of "Mob rule, lock em up!"
To the N word removed from a TV show? - "Oh FFS, what's next?" plus "How come Kanye West can say it? It's not fair! No consistency!"
To an anti-racist # of Black Lives Matter - "Yeah, so how come they don't talk about all the blacks killing other blacks?"
In other words - long story short - I like the message of more dialogue on racism in this header but I question the good faith of those on here who are probably applauding it the most strongly. Since they are the very people who in practice demonstrate to me the opposite tendency.
Perhaps there's many issues relating to race in the modern world you prefer not to discuss ?
So you keep retreating to your 18th century comfort zone.
Please start such a discussion. I will be pleased to contribute.
Well CR already has but I've also made comments today about the issue and how it affected by class, housing affordability, the specific inequality issues areas of large Afro-Caribbean communities have and what the consequences covid might be.
You'll find them timed at 10:56, 11:18, 11:34 and 11:38.
You make some good and interesting points about class and exploitation.
But since your thrust is to argue that racism is - relatively speaking - not a material factor in this I don't know what you meant by suggesting that I wish to avoid discussing "many issues relating to race in the modern world."
You would have to float one or two and see if I avoid responding.
Well here goes:
How are Afro-Caribbean people affected by racism in comparison with those of African background or those of Asian background (Asian generally or type of Asian if more detail is wanted) ?
Are people who migrate more or less successful if they congregate within an immigrant community or if they disperse into the wider community ? Does this also apply to subsequent generations of that immigrant community ? Does the location of the immigrant community matter - expensive cities or cheaper towns ?
Is gender equality driven by racism ? White middle class men giving jobs to white middle class women in preference to black working class men.
Is racism fundamentally tolerated by the urban middle class because of the economic necessity of having an easily exploited workforce ?
OK. So in order -
1. Interesting question. To what extent is (say) black and muslim underachievement due to them facing greater racism than other groups, as opposed to them being (for whatever reason) less able to rise above it and succeed regardless? I think it's mainly down to racism but it's complex because the one affects the other and you can get a vicious circle. For example, the more you are knocked back, the more likely you are to stop trying. You can also get virtuous circles and these are what we want to get going.
2. Another interesting question. Does a determined attempt to integrate into the host society pay dividends for incomers and their descendants? My strong sense would be yes. Yes it does. Therefore such integration - especially English language skills - should be encouraged whilst maintaining respect for difference. Carrot not stick.
3. No. Gender equality is not driven by racism. That (imo) is you overthinking it and stretching for a conclusion you quite like. Gender equality in the workplace - which we do not yet have btw - is driven by feminist activism over the years and by straightforward economic necessity. If we do not fully utilize the talents of women we will fall behind places that do. Look at some parts of the muslim world to see what a drag - in both senses of the word - the exclusion of women from "man's important work" is.
4. No. Racism is not specifically or especially tolerated by the urban middle class because of the economic necessity of having an easily exploited workforce. If we want to go big picture, I'd suggest that unfettered capitalism will always lead to mass exploitation and that those exploited will (for many reasons, including the legacy of colonialism) contain a disproportionate proportion of people who are other than white.
EDIT - See? I'm discussing this stuff with you.
Okay a very quick response as I need to go out.
1) But why would black people experience more racism than Asians ? As I said earlier they should have been able to integrate easier because they were English speaking and Christian plus the many famous black sportsmen and entertainers admired by white people. In the USA I could understand with its legacy of slavery, civil war and segregation but not the UK.
2) The successful Ugandan Asians might be worthy of study here as they were encouraged, almost forced, to disperse and integrate into the wider British community. If accumulated wealth is an important sign of progress / integration / power then the greater the socioeconomic inequalities the harder it is for an immigrant group to raise its status.
3) See the comments earlier from CR and others. Is gender activism being driven by class privilege ? See Cameron's idea of a 'golden skirts' law - the sort of law which would have benefited people like SamCam most.
4) How closely are unfettered capitalism, socioeconomic inequality and urban living linked ? Do big cities require a continuous stream of new immigrant groups to allow for exploitation ? Do immigrant groups which fail to raise their status then get viewed prejudicially, implicitly or explicitly, by both the urban rich and immigrant groups which do raise their status ? See Olly Letwin's 'disco and drugs' as an example.
Off topic: whilst out to get a coffee, I saw two A400Ms inbound to Newcastle Airport. One made what looked to be a hell of an aborted landing. They are foreboding yet majestic aircraft.
Wow, yeah. It's done six approaches so far, either go-arounds or touch-and-goes. A400M out of Brize Norton. Some sort of a training mission maybe? https://www.flightradar24.com/ASCOT491/24bf8738
I must have seen the same one twice! It had its landing gear down and was very low. Odd one! Good experience though.
He's certainly having a fun Sunday afternoon, that's for sure! No idea why though.
I was just messaging with my brother who mentioned a big grey plane flying around, he lives in Seaton.
Round my way, we had a few massive A380s flying circuits last week - they've been grounded for ages, so they need to stop planes and pilots from becoming rusty.
My old shipmate who is/was a B744 joystick actuator informs me that BA have cancelled his sim sessions and let his currency lapse. He then told me how he had once used 11 condoms on a 3 day trip to Lagos but only spent 40 quid and lamented that he will never know such days of wonder again.
I used to frequent the Holiday Inn on Ikeja Island in the 1980s. £40 would have been remarkable value, even back then.
Didn't Michel Houellebecq write an entire book analysing the thesis that a hooker is roughly the same price all over the world: about £40
Does not justify England's governments current attitude or the Scottish Government meekly accepting it.
There is no England government. Which is part of the problem.
Technically you are correct.
In practice, it feels like the "Provinces" have been given their Assemblies and Westminster governs for England. What is good for England is good for the UK, so to speak.
No, as there are still Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish MPs at Westminster.
Personally I have no problem with an English Parliament
Technically you are also correct. But it does not feel like that.
When are you going to grasp the fact that for Ordinary Joe/Joanne, perception is everything and facts are a long way down the list...
The facts are there is a UK Parliament at Westminster, a Scottish Parliament at Holyrood, a Welsh Assembly in Cardiff Bay and a Northern Ireland Assembly at Stormont but no English Parliament or Assembly.
As for perception 41% of English voters and 52% of Leave voters do indeed want an English Parliament
Covid has demonstrated very starkly that in so many areas the Westminster government only governs England. Most notably, Hancock is England's Secretary of State for Health.
The surest route to Scottish independence is to give the English a vote on it.
Feck all to do with them, if they want to be independent then they should have an England vote. Scottish independence is purely for Scotland to decide.
Why is that? I say we give the English a vote on getting rid of you.
The English can legitimately vote on leaving the UK. Not quite the same thing, and morally very different.
Actually I don't think it's that simple because the UK really is an extension of England. The UK parliament could vote to set up independent states in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland and relinquish its sovereignty, but that's not quite the same thing as England leaving the UK.
Comments
I haven't seen the workings of this last indy poll but the previous Panelbase had a third of current SLab voters say that they would vote Yes in a new referendum. It's not only that Starmer has to come up with some viable offer to these folk, but that it's also got to be convincing ie not some pie in the sky federalism by the year 2525 rubbish.
He said: "I don’t want to preempt the work of the police and their investigation into what happened in this case.
"But if there are changes that need to be made to our legal system to stop such events happening again we will not hesitate to take that action."
I was just messaging with my brother who mentioned a big grey plane flying around, he lives in Seaton.
Round my way, we had a few massive A380s flying circuits last week - they've been grounded for ages, so they need to stop planes and pilots from becoming rusty.
- Paying people more than their managers. This taboo doesn't seem to cover contractors.
- Reducing headcount, in a stupid checkbox manner. Because of the stupid way that costs are often allocated, contractors don't count.
- The flexibility is actually the least used, in much of IT contracting.
The problem is that quite a lot of people and companies have built their structures around this behaviour.
Biden 1.755
Trump 2.65
So to judge from the betting market, that's a launch anti-bounce for Trump. He must be miffed that Antifa stopped 990,000 keen supporters among the 1 million who applied for tickets from making it to the hall.
Rallies did a lot for him last time. This time, they don't work. What else has he got?
Who else?
Course, if the point is that he does not look the most inspirational of candidates, you will get no argument from me.
But WH2020 is (sadly) is a one issue election. Deliver us from this nightmare.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/interview-sadiq-khan-on-his-struggles-during-lockdown-in-london-8msxm0rd2
From a contractor's point of view I would guess that freedom and ability to still be a 'techie' when older, not having to move to management role would come high on the list - probably ahead of the money. Out of the money one has to account for holidays, pensions, company expenses, probably extra travel and staying away from home plus times 'resting' between contracts.
The point about pay is quite important - the Civil Service flatly refused to allow employees to be paid by skill, rather than seniority.
https://twitter.com/davewiner/status/1274598718214471680?s=20
But, you are wasting your breath on Another Richard. He is a hair shirt paleo conservative who thinks we are best served by forties style make do and mend, while living a low-rent existence in Mansfield.
And most of the top tier pirating groups of movie / games don't even do it for money, it is all about the street cred and being in the cool gang of those getting everything first.
That’s fatal unless he can turn it around.
Simon and Schuster can say x millions of people would have bought the book but for this leak.
That's why we have take down notices/enforcement.
Ditto action against cheap knock offs.
That's a LOL - Corona is a series of was so will give a differen answer ever fortnight or so.
Presumably at some point it was an existential crisis for Sir K.
I’m Not Trump
Is one of those great three-word pithy campaign slogans that Dommo Cummings would be proud of.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/fl/florida_trump_vs_biden-6841.html#polls
F**k me, he must have had a near squeak of it.
https://www.motorsportweek.com/2020/06/20/f1-champion-hamilton-launches-commission-to-work-on-motorsport-diversity/
And not in the sense of wonder at giant piles of money - more "Christ, Tube drivers can get more than that"....
1. Interesting question. To what extent is (say) black and muslim underachievement due to them facing greater racism than other groups, as opposed to them being (for whatever reason) less able to rise above it and succeed regardless? I think it's mainly down to racism but it's complex because the one affects the other and you can get a vicious circle. For example, the more you are knocked back, the more likely you are to stop trying. You can also get virtuous circles and these are what we want to get going.
2. Another interesting question. Does a determined attempt to integrate into the host society pay dividends for incomers and their descendants? My strong sense would be yes. Yes it does. Therefore such integration - especially English language skills - should be encouraged whilst maintaining respect for difference. Carrot not stick.
3. No. Gender equality is not driven by racism. That (imo) is you overthinking it and stretching for a conclusion you quite like. Gender equality in the workplace - which we do not yet have btw - is driven by feminist activism over the years and by straightforward economic necessity. If we do not fully utilize the talents of women we will fall behind places that do. Look at some parts of the muslim world to see what a drag - in both senses of the word - the exclusion of women from "man's important work" is.
4. No. Racism is not specifically or especially tolerated by the urban middle class because of the economic necessity of having an easily exploited workforce. If we want to go big picture, I'd suggest that unfettered capitalism will always lead to mass exploitation and that those exploited will (for many reasons, including the legacy of colonialism) contain a disproportionate proportion of people who are other than white.
EDIT - See? I'm discussing this stuff with you.
There are several points upon which we agree, particularly in your core message of forgiveness. Forgiveness is not really for the forgiven, as most people think, it's for the forgiver. Without it, we can never truly move beyond the injustice that has been committed against us.
Where I feel we agree less is in solutions. Your solution, in common with most commentators, is to focus on this issue more, in hopes of *solving* it. 'One more push' and we will solve this issue and all move toward the sunlit uplands in harmony. Evidence would suggest this is simply not the case. There is a limit to which one can uplift anyone by attempting to make oneself as unhappy as they are. That may result in temporary comfort, but not a lasting solution. There is a limit to which we can solve the problem of a widely perceived lack, by concentrating on that lack, rather than the abundance of opportunity and good in our country that is going unnoticed whilst we gaze into our navels.
What is the lasting solution? Here are my (obviously flawed and human) suggestions.
1. Recognise our fundamental brother/sisterhood. We are one human species. All of our colours and creeds are winners, because we have survived, and the real victory of human life is the propagation of the species - generation after generation of healthy offspring. We are wonderfully adapted in different ways to the environments of our forebears, and that should be celebrated rather than ignored, but there is no superiority or inferiority. This seems like a very basic point, but I'm not sure it is really and truly believed, by all, regardless of their position in this debate.
2. We need to expect the best from everyone. The law must be upheld without fear or favour, and it must be totally colourblind. Attempts by police officers and social workers to 'understand' and apply the law more selectively have been disastrous, and have tended to be wholly counterproductive, because the eventual ghastly circumstances have served to reinforce negative cultural and racial stereotyping. We must also expect the best from everyone in education. We all, teachers, families, Government, businesses, bear a responsibility to ensure that black pupils have the opportunity to excel, and then believe they can do it, and instil that belief. That must not include adjusting outcomes. Again, that is a hugely damaging practise, that can only reinforce the negative perceptions it is designed to overcome.
4. We all need to turn our energies and thoughts elsewhere. We currently have a war on terror, and a war on drugs. In both of those wars, we seem to be getting properly drubbed, with no end in sight. There is a metaphysical argument that by focusing on something we make it bigger. Whether or not this is true, it is certainly true that to truly move on from anything, we need to concentrate on something else. I've recently been watching Lucy Worsley's excellent series on The Georgians. The explosion of commerce in that era succeeded in sweeping away much of the sectarian conflict that had been rampant, leading Defoe to write 'There is no Protestant and Catholic in a good bargain.' There is no black or white or brown in a good bargain. I don't believe we can heal our differences by picking at the sores.
Trump allies see a mounting threat: Biden’s rising evangelical support
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/21/trump-allies-see-threat-biden-evangelical-support-330780
... Biden, a lifelong Catholic, has performed better in recent polling among white evangelicals — and other religious groups — than Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton did in 2016, and is widely perceived as more religious than the current White House occupant. A Pew Research study conducted earlier this year showed that a majority of U.S. adults (63 percent) think Trump is “not at all” or “not too religious,” versus 55 percent who said they believed Biden is somewhat or very religious....
Headline number - 26
Seven day number - 25
Yesterday - 7
Lowest number (Sunday or not) since March
Hot Easter - nada
VE parties - zilch
Spring Bank hol - nowt
BLM - sweet FA
https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln/status/1274690372929818625?s=20
At the bottom end for lo-cos, it barely pays minimum wage
Twitter not scared of him, how long before Senate Republicans start distancing themselves?
(Edit and likely to increase when the Brexit shit hits the fan)
https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1274683500667469824
1) But why would black people experience more racism than Asians ? As I said earlier they should have been able to integrate easier because they were English speaking and Christian plus the many famous black sportsmen and entertainers admired by white people. In the USA I could understand with its legacy of slavery, civil war and segregation but not the UK.
2) The successful Ugandan Asians might be worthy of study here as they were encouraged, almost forced, to disperse and integrate into the wider British community. If accumulated wealth is an important sign of progress / integration / power then the greater the socioeconomic inequalities the harder it is for an immigrant group to raise its status.
3) See the comments earlier from CR and others. Is gender activism being driven by class privilege ? See Cameron's idea of a 'golden skirts' law - the sort of law which would have benefited people like SamCam most.
4) How closely are unfettered capitalism, socioeconomic inequality and urban living linked ? Do big cities require a continuous stream of new immigrant groups to allow for exploitation ? Do immigrant groups which fail to raise their status then get viewed prejudicially, implicitly or explicitly, by both the urban rich and immigrant groups which do raise their status ? See Olly Letwin's 'disco and drugs' as an example.
NEW THREAD