By my unscientific finger in the air method the Tory party has just shifted 3m votes from their column into the undecided column. It's literally all to play for for Labour now. If Boris is still there in 2024 I could see Labour getting very close to a majority or even a working majority atm.
It's going to be a very long 4 years for the party if they don't dump Boris.
I can't see how Boris makes it another 4 years. I can see Tory party pushing him out and spinning it as him going having never fully recovered from coronavirus.
I think Johnson will be there for the next election - and I'm betting that way - but I hope he is brought down and I hope it's in humiliating circumstances. He deserves it.
I like to have respect for the PM of this country. It's important to me, regardless of which party is in power, that I can feel this way. And despite being no Tory, I have been able to feel this way about every Conservative PM of my adult lifetime. Thatcher, Major, Cameron, May. Every one. Why? Because, whilst hating their politics much of the time, I could sense some integrity and diligence and sense of public service in the individuaI.
But this guy - this "Boris" character - he would not recognize any of these things if he fell over them. He is about nothing more elevated than himself. Born into privilege he has done little with it except feed his own vanity and need for the spotlight. He is a piss-taker.
And this means - for the very first time - I find it impossible to respect the person leading the country. Which makes me feel bad. I feel bad about it. A bit sick even, when I dwell on it.
So I want him gone. And I want him punished for putting me through this.
Fuck off Boris.
You respected Theresa May? The woman who sent vans telling immigrants to Go Home?
Diligence and a sense of public duty.
So for that, yes, I could respect her whilst disliking and disagreeing with much of her politics.
France has announced a new list of alternatives for English language terms such as clickbait, podcast and deepfake.
For clickbait - the term used for headlines that tempt a reader to click on an online link to a story - CELF suggests "piège à clics", or "click trap" in English.
The commission also recommends the use of "audio à la demande" (AAD) or "audio on demand" for podcast, and "videotox infox" for "deepfake" - edited media which puts a person's face or body onto someone else's.
Ha, they've clearly never heard French teenagers talking. The French language police have long since missed their opportunity to stop the kids speaking "Franglish".
French is vertically stratified into 'registres' in a way that English just isn't. (Soutenue/Courant/Familier). These reforms are aimed at the Soutenue and Courant and are very largely successful. Those kids are speaking the registre familier which probably has as many Arabic loan words as English these days.
Am I the only person on this site who can't stand Theresa May and finds her morally awful?
I don't understand it. I quit the party when she became leader as I can't stand the vile woman. I can't stand anyone who shouts at immigrants to "GO HOME" yet to listen to people here you'd swear she was a paragon of virtue.
Like everyone she has a mix of good and bad. I admired her work ethic, duty and tenacity but the same qualities were also responsible for her trying to do too much herself and not involving others enough. On policy there is little I agreed with her on, beyond some very mainstream things nearly everyone agrees on.
Not everything and certainly not everybody is black and white, good or bad. In the round, yes I find her less objectionable than Johnson.
The media are sooo desperate for that scalp, not just because they hate Cummings, but because they know that if they don't get it their power will have been broken and the Government can tell them to get stuffed with any future whining.
I would sacrifice a lot of temporary popularity to win that prize. And I think Dominic Cummings would too
He`s got to go though. Even if you think it`s unfair - he`s still got to go.
By my unscientific finger in the air method the Tory party has just shifted 3m votes from their column into the undecided column. It's literally all to play for for Labour now. If Boris is still there in 2024 I could see Labour getting very close to a majority or even a working majority atm.
It's going to be a very long 4 years for the party if they don't dump Boris.
I can't see how Boris makes it another 4 years. I can see Tory party pushing him out and spinning it as him going having never fully recovered from coronavirus.
I think Johnson will be there for the next election - and I'm betting that way - but I hope he is brought down and I hope it's in humiliating circumstances. He deserves it.
I like to have respect for the PM of this country. It's important to me, regardless of which party is in power, that I can feel this way. And despite being no Tory, I have been able to feel this way about every Conservative PM of my adult lifetime. Thatcher, Major, Cameron, May. Every one. Why? Because, whilst hating their politics much of the time, I could sense some integrity and diligence and sense of public service in the individuaI.
But this guy - this "Boris" character - he would not recognize any of these things if he fell over them. He is about nothing more elevated than himself. Born into privilege he has done little with it except feed his own vanity and need for the spotlight. He is a piss-taker.
And this means - for the very first time - I find it impossible to respect the person leading the country. Which makes me feel bad. I feel bad about it. A bit sick even, when I dwell on it.
So I want him gone. And I want him punished for putting me through this.
Fuck off Boris.
You respected Theresa May? The woman who sent vans telling immigrants to Go Home?
Weren't the vans just satirical comedy? Nothing sinister about them at all, you know, just like, picanninies, water melon smiles, bank robbers and letter boxes.
" Another MP said the situation "feels more poll tax than ERM, actually." "
Telegraph
I can't quite work out what distinction is being drawn here.
Any ideas?
The poll tax didn’t cost the Tories the next election because they ditched their leader?
Given the purge of Tory MPs in 2019 I would think Johnson is the safest Conservative Party leader in history.
Given what is going on right now in the world and country that's a pretty daft comment. He may be fine but events dear boy, events.
I think any other leader of the Conservative Party would have faced more explicit criticism of his judgement from his own MPs, but he hasn't because they're scared.
Indeed, I'd have thought in most previous Cabinets you would have had senior ministers telling the PM privately that this was not tenable.
It's only because Johnson's position is so strong that he's been allowed to make such a huge mistake over this.
The media are sooo desperate for that scalp, not just because they hate Cummings, but because they know that if they don't get it their power will have been broken and the Government can tell them to get stuffed with any future whining.
I would sacrifice a lot of temporary popularity to win that prize. And I think Dominic Cummings would too
Oh lord.
Honestly, I really really hope Cummings stays. For Keir Starmer's Labour it's the best possible outcome.
But this isn't a media storm. Huge swathe of the country are angry and hurt.
Two tweets supportive of Ross from Davidson and Tomkins won't have added to the gaiety of Carlaw's morning.....
It actually wouldn't be a bad thing. It starts him off on the right foot having stuck it to Boris and Cummings. It proves he is independent and principled. There is just the small matter of being elected to Holyrood...
Not sure if it's in the SCon constitution that their leader has to be at Holyrood, though it helps obvs. Otoh Jim Murphy is not a happy precedent.
I see Mr Carson has a majority of about 1.5K. A constituency MSP for Galloway & W Dumf. So much more vulnerable than a mere list MSP such as Prof Tomkins.
And this means - for the very first time - I find it impossible to respect the person leading the country. Which makes me feel bad. I feel bad about it. A bit sick even, when I dwell on it.
I felt like that with Gordo
And BoZo is sooooo much worse.
You felt Brown lacked diligence and a sense of public duty?
Am I the only person on this site who can't stand Theresa May and finds her morally awful?
I don't understand it. I quit the party when she became leader as I can't stand the vile woman. I can't stand anyone who shouts at immigrants to "GO HOME" yet to listen to people here you'd swear she was a paragon of virtue.
You felt Brown lacked diligence and a sense of public duty?
I thought he wanted to be PM, schemed and clawed hos way into the job, and then wasn't good at it. I was embarrassed that he was the leader of the country.
If the same thing happened to any of us with young children without access to an empty house, it would be a pretty scary situation. Puts into perspective how different dealing with the virus is between the richest and the poorest. Hopefully that will be taken into account in future policies - there are many stealth taxes on the poor that dont appear on the statute.
That said, if we were offered the chance of such access I doubt many people would turn it down.
Agree. But then most of us aren't the government's senior advisor responsible for the policy saying it shouldn't be done.
Myself, I would still do what I thought best for my family if I were the government's senior advisor
I suppose that's why you are posting on PB instead of being that advisor.
That doesn't make sense, the senior advisor did it!
The point is that you are not prepared to make the many sacrifices that go with being the government's senior advisor. Hence you, and most others on here, stick to posting on PB.
Because if you are the government's senior advisor you should be aware that rules and expectations which don't apply to most people may well apply to you.
You can go out if you think it's absolutely necessary you know. It's a £60 fine the first time you're caught or something, less than weed, and everyone smokes weed.
I went to the shittiest of state schools and even I understand that sometimes you have to take personal responsibility in a shitty situation. And it sounds like his child is not particularly well a lot of the time.
You are the government's senior advisor. You helped to formulate the rules. Which you then broke.
Same question to you as yesterday: which is worse, a 17-yr old scrote stealing a Mars Bar from Tesco or the Chief Constable stealing a Mars Bar from Tesco?
This is why Dom in the garden yesterday is clever. In journalism, everything is black and white, there's only one side, it's all Good or Bad.
Turns out real life is nuanced. It's a human story now. There's exceptional circumstances. This site was unified against him before it, now there is at least some debate, because it's murky, and it's real. So the media lost. Maybe the chief constable has diabetes and collapsed before he got to the till, and there's a rule that says you only need the wrapper to pay.
That's not stealing a Mars - you need a mens rea for that. IANAL and even I know that. The scenario specified 'stealing'.
By my unscientific finger in the air method the Tory party has just shifted 3m votes from their column into the undecided column. It's literally all to play for for Labour now. If Boris is still there in 2024 I could see Labour getting very close to a majority or even a working majority atm.
It's going to be a very long 4 years for the party if they don't dump Boris.
Yes, of course they should dump their best election winner in 32 years over a single incident. Remember when Boris' prorogation was overturned? When he expelled 20 MPs from his own party, was in deep minority, and faced a die-in-a-ditch deadline within weeks?
The received wisdom was that he was finished then too. It is comically lacking in perspective to believe that he is finished now with a majority of 80, Labour 163 seats behind, and 4 years to plan strategy for the next election.
The difference then is that Boris was (fairly or unfairly) cast as the saviour of the people vs the elites. That strategy isn't going to be available to him and Dom next time. This has taken away Boris' USP as a man of the people. The consensus view of Boris among those who would consider voting for him is "he might be rich and a toff but he's not like the rest of them". That's been completely shattered today.
You are completely blinkered if you think Boris will win another majority.
"Boris' USP as a man of the people"
Not sure he ever had that.
I think he does, or perhaps rather did. From HIGNFY to winning Labour London for the Conservatives and then championing the Olympics, he showed a deft touch that belied his Etonian education. He reached across the political spectrum as, indeed, he did by winning last year.
He has really blown it through standing by Cummings. More even than his lack of judgement and his failure to capture the mood of the country, it shows he is insecure and weak. And those are terrible qualities in a PM. The last (godawful) PM we had like that was Gordon Brown.
Standing up to the media shows he is weak.
Couldn't make it up 😂😂😂😂😂😂
The accusations of cowardice and weakness are entirely predictable but truly bizarre. If Boris was weak or a coward Cummings would have gone. Period. The fact that he has not gone shows Boris is neither. Whether he is right to invest so much of his personal capital in supporting an advisor is of course a different question.
This is all rubbish of course and adding to the confected story, but FWIW on 12 April it was not illegal to drive somewhere to exercise, though the police, as part of the general thought police, were not keen. Which is why 'exercise' would have been the best excuse for Barnard Castle, unless he happened to have a true reasonable excuse - which plainly he didn't or he would have let us into the secret.
The conspiracy theorists suggest he was cooking up a backroom deal with GSK (who have headquarters in Barnard Castle). They did announce something 2 days later, after all...
Wouldnt that be a good thing? Why not just say he was there for work and stopped on the way for exercise?
It doesnt sound like something he would choose to avoid saying?
Why would you head to a factory where none of GSK's senior management actually work on a Saturday when they definitely wouldn't be working.
It's a bollox justification for a bollox excuse for a very stupid thing to do.
I did say it was a conspiracy theory! It might conceivably have been a backroom deal outside of the government rules, I suppose.
I don't understand why he used the eyesight excuse, though. It seems so odd. You were allowed out for daily exercise at the time, so why not just say that? It would have been pushing it a bit but it wasn't halfway across the country. The original trip north was the major problem as far as rule-breaking went.
I guess it's measuring people who have it and don't yet feel ill, so it's a way of reducing the two week lag in the figures.
That and people with the virus on their hands but who wash it off in time. It is not really a predictor, but it is picking up the spread of the virus more quickly than waiting for people to get the symptoms and get tested. If it can allow strong localised lock down measures for a couple of weeks, it should have a big effect on hindering the spread of the virus.
Caveat: This is all assuming the reported effect is genuine.
Fantastic! Thatcher won another landslide after the Westland 'crisis' - an excellent omen.
Westland was a 'bubble' story in comparison. This is more of a Black Wednesday. Even if everything goes right for the government on coronavirus for the rest of their term, people will forever associate them with "one rule for us and another rule for you".
If the same thing happened to any of us with young children without access to an empty house, it would be a pretty scary situation. Puts into perspective how different dealing with the virus is between the richest and the poorest. Hopefully that will be taken into account in future policies - there are many stealth taxes on the poor that dont appear on the statute.
That said, if we were offered the chance of such access I doubt many people would turn it down.
Agree. But then most of us aren't the government's senior advisor responsible for the policy saying it shouldn't be done.
Myself, I would still do what I thought best for my family if I were the government's senior advisor
I suppose that's why you are posting on PB instead of being that advisor.
That doesn't make sense, the senior advisor did it!
The point is that you are not prepared to make the many sacrifices that go with being the government's senior advisor. Hence you, and most others on here, stick to posting on PB.
Because if you are the government's senior advisor you should be aware that rules and expectations which don't apply to most people may well apply to you.
You can go out if you think it's absolutely necessary you know. It's a £60 fine the first time you're caught or something, less than weed, and everyone smokes weed.
I went to the shittiest of state schools and even I understand that sometimes you have to take personal responsibility in a shitty situation. And it sounds like his child is not particularly well a lot of the time.
You are the government's senior advisor. You helped to formulate the rules. Which you then broke.
Same question to you as yesterday: which is worse, a 17-yr old scrote stealing a Mars Bar from Tesco or the Chief Constable stealing a Mars Bar from Tesco?
This is why Dom in the garden yesterday is clever. In journalism, everything is black and white, there's only one side, it's all Good or Bad.
Turns out real life is nuanced. It's a human story now. There's exceptional circumstances. This site was unified against him before it, now there is at least some debate, because it's murky, and it's real. So the media lost. Maybe the chief constable has diabetes and collapsed before he got to the till, and there's a rule that says you only need the wrapper to pay.
That's not stealing a Mars - you need a mens rea for that. IANAL and even I know that. The scenario specified 'stealing'.
Because Real Life Is Nuanced, Not Black And White, the scenario doesn't exactly fit because it isn't nuanced, it's black and white.
I've not commented on Cummings specifically thus far because I'm not equipped to. I'm not a parent and I don't know what I would do if confronted by the situation in which Cummings found himself on that Thursday evening and Friday morning.
For the vast majority (NOT, I emphasise, everyone as will come out in the days and weeks ahead), "Home" is a place of safety, security, comfort and control. That's why lockdown was so successful - because people felt safe at home and once they figured out how to keep themselves fed and entertained it wasn't so bad for a lot of people.
Cummings didn't feel safe at "home" and I thought this from his statement was telling:
"But these stories had created a very bad atmosphere around my home. I was subject to threats of violence. People came to my house shouting threats. There were posts on social media, encouraging attacks. There were many media reports on TV showing pictures of my house."
Now, one could argue he was the architect of his own misfortune and there's an important maxim worth remembering at this time:
"It doesn't matter who writes the history - what matters is who re-writes it".
There will be those who argue, irrespective of his role, Cummings has the same right we all do to feel safe in his own house. I have some sympathy with that and if it is the "mob" which has forced him to up sticks and drive to Durham that's something to consider.
I'm also curious as to the notion of his own indispensability to No.10 and the Prime Minister. I've met his type (and it's a female trait too) in my career - however sick they are, whatever problems they have, they have to be at work because the world can't function without them.
In the world of digital technology, that's absurd. When your family has a serious health situation, that's even more absurd. No one is indispensable.
Wow, that's some genuinely significant research if it can be backed up with further studies.
If we get another wave, with a doubling rate of 2-3 days, a week's notice will be invaluable.
It's not been peer reviewed yet, but I believe there are several such studies ongoing.
Whitty or Valance referenced the methodology in one of the Press Conferences which quickly spiralled into "There's Covid in the water supply" on twitter - so I suspect its part of how they're keeping track.
Am I the only person on this site who can't stand Theresa May and finds her morally awful?
I don't understand it. I quit the party when she became leader as I can't stand the vile woman. I can't stand anyone who shouts at immigrants to "GO HOME" yet to listen to people here you'd swear she was a paragon of virtue.
Virtually in tears at the 'Go Home' Vans yet (i) happy to almost worship Boris "casual racism" Johnson and (ii) a Brexiteer with no concerns whatsoever about the xenophobic aspect of the vote to Leave.
Fantastic! Thatcher won another landslide after the Westland 'crisis' - an excellent omen.
Westland was a 'bubble' story in comparison. This is more of a Black Wednesday. Even if everything goes right for the government on coronavirus for the rest of their term, people will forever associate them with "one rule for us and another rule for you".
Why do I get the feeling that for some people every Wednesday is Black Wednesday?
This supposed 'scandal' doesn't even have a catchy name yet, FFS, and _everything_ gets a catchy name these days. 'Cummingsgate' doesn't exactly trip off the tongue...
Am I the only person on this site who can't stand Theresa May and finds her morally awful?
I don't understand it. I quit the party when she became leader as I can't stand the vile woman. I can't stand anyone who shouts at immigrants to "GO HOME" yet to listen to people here you'd swear she was a paragon of virtue.
This is all rubbish of course and adding to the confected story, but FWIW on 12 April it was not illegal to drive somewhere to exercise, though the police, as part of the general thought police, were not keen.
For that matter the self-isolation guidance didn't have any legal standing anyway, and at that time it allowed even people with symptoms to leave the house for exercise.
Maybe Cummings should just have said all these trips were for exercise. No illegality and no breach of the self-isolation guidance.
If the same thing happened to any of us with young children without access to an empty house, it would be a pretty scary situation. Puts into perspective how different dealing with the virus is between the richest and the poorest. Hopefully that will be taken into account in future policies - there are many stealth taxes on the poor that dont appear on the statute.
That said, if we were offered the chance of such access I doubt many people would turn it down.
Agree. But then most of us aren't the government's senior advisor responsible for the policy saying it shouldn't be done.
Myself, I would still do what I thought best for my family if I were the government's senior advisor
I suppose that's why you are posting on PB instead of being that advisor.
That doesn't make sense, the senior advisor did it!
The point is that you are not prepared to make the many sacrifices that go with being the government's senior advisor. Hence you, and most others on here, stick to posting on PB.
Because if you are the government's senior advisor you should be aware that rules and expectations which don't apply to most people may well apply to you.
Haha
"If I were Eric Cantona, I'd have Kung fu kicked that Palace fan too"
"That's why you're posting on here not playing for Man Utd"
This is all rubbish of course and adding to the confected story, but FWIW on 12 April it was not illegal to drive somewhere to exercise, though the police, as part of the general thought police, were not keen. Which is why 'exercise' would have been the best excuse for Barnard Castle, unless he happened to have a true reasonable excuse - which plainly he didn't or he would have let us into the secret.
The conspiracy theorists suggest he was cooking up a backroom deal with GSK (who have headquarters in Barnard Castle). They did announce something 2 days later, after all...
Wouldnt that be a good thing? Why not just say he was there for work and stopped on the way for exercise?
It doesnt sound like something he would choose to avoid saying?
Why would you head to a factory where none of GSK's senior management actually work on a Saturday when they definitely wouldn't be working.
It's a bollox justification for a bollox excuse for a very stupid thing to do.
I did say it was a conspiracy theory! It might conceivably have been a backroom deal outside of the government rules, I suppose.
I don't understand why he used the eyesight excuse, though. It seems so odd. You were allowed out for daily exercise at the time, so why not just say that? It would have been pushing it a bit but it wasn't halfway across the country. The original trip north was the major problem as far as rule-breaking went.
I had not driven in 2 weeks, I was not sure if I'm 100% so it made sense to do a 30 minute drive to check I felt fine before starting back to London would have made a lot more sense.
The dumb idiot overthought it, alongside everything else.
Fantastic! Thatcher won another landslide after the Westland 'crisis' - an excellent omen.
Westland was a 'bubble' story in comparison. This is more of a Black Wednesday. Even if everything goes right for the government on coronavirus for the rest of their term, people will forever associate them with "one rule for us and another rule for you".
Why do I get the feeling that for some people every Wednesday is Black Wednesday?
This supposed 'scandal' doesn't even have a catchy name yet, FFS, and _everything_ gets a catchy name these days. 'Cummingsgate' doesn't exactly trip off the tongue...
They're still looking for a name that doesn't turn up a whole load of 'adult' videos on the first page of a Google search!
edit: or won't do in the future, when people start using it deliberately in 'adult' content.
If the same thing happened to any of us with young children without access to an empty house, it would be a pretty scary situation. Puts into perspective how different dealing with the virus is between the richest and the poorest. Hopefully that will be taken into account in future policies - there are many stealth taxes on the poor that dont appear on the statute.
That said, if we were offered the chance of such access I doubt many people would turn it down.
Agree. But then most of us aren't the government's senior advisor responsible for the policy saying it shouldn't be done.
Myself, I would still do what I thought best for my family if I were the government's senior advisor
I suppose that's why you are posting on PB instead of being that advisor.
That doesn't make sense, the senior advisor did it!
The point is that you are not prepared to make the many sacrifices that go with being the government's senior advisor. Hence you, and most others on here, stick to posting on PB.
Because if you are the government's senior advisor you should be aware that rules and expectations which don't apply to most people may well apply to you.
Haha
"If I were Eric Cantona, I'd have Kung fu kicked that Palace fan too"
"That's why you're posting on here not playing for Man Utd"
He is the lead in a new netflix mini series. Its not great but not terrible.
Irony because it's Osborne but still seems good to me
I rather preferred his comment that he didn't really care who Professor Lockdown was shacked up with but he really cared whether his advice was worth taking. The same applies to Cummings. Does he help or hinder the PM in doing his job? That is the real question.
This is the nub of matter - if there was a simple, clear, consistent story then everyone would give it. Instead what we have is an ever-changing collection of excuses some of which contradict the others.
The simple fact that no one seems able to stick to a single explanation is what undermines the whole thing as far as I am concerned. It give the appearance of them making it up as they go along.
How many of them will be the same people who signed the Revoke Article 50 petition?
Remember the 4 million strong petition that kept being reported on?
That worked so well didn't it.
That argument isn't strictly logical.
We are in the 'what if' argument here though. Certainly if very large numbers hadn't marched or signed petitions nothing probably would have changed. That could have been a big part of a change (or maybe not) but the LDs/SNP took the gamble and enabled the election. Once Boris had the 80 majority it was done and dusted and so the marches/petitions became redundant.
So if the latter hadn't happened the former may have (or not) been influential.
How many of them will be the same people who signed the Revoke Article 50 petition?
Remember the 4 million strong petition that kept being reported on?
That worked so well didn't it.
That argument isn't strictly logical.
We are in the 'what if' argument here though. Certainly if very large numbers hadn't marched or signed petitions nothing probably would have changed. That could have been a big part of a change (or maybe not) but the LDs/SNP took the gamble and enabled the election. Once Boris had the 80 majority it was done and dusted and so the marches/petitions became redundant.
So if the latter hadn't happened the former may have (or not) been influential.
PS personally I agree with you. I don't think that petition will be influential unless it increases by at least a factor of 10 and I am not seeing the same motivation to sign, but I could be wrong. Sadly I often am.
This is the nub of matter - if there was a simple, clear, consistent story then everyone would give it. Instead what we have is an ever-changing collection of excuses some of which contradict the others.
The simple fact that no one seems able to stick to a single explanation is what undermines the whole thing as far as I am concerned. It give the appearance of them making it up as they go along.
In general, its easy to come up with a lie that obscures one issue. When there are a dozen different issues, coming up with a set of lies that consistently deals with all the issues is much harder.
Btw at these prices you can back both sides to lock in a small profit. Be careful if you attempt this because one bookmaker might accept your stake and the other one knock you back.
If you admit Cummings is a lying toerag does it not then reflect on the VoteLeave campaign itself? Gove & Johnson have too much invested in Cummings and have to maintain the myth that he is a man of "honesty and integrity"
By my unscientific finger in the air method the Tory party has just shifted 3m votes from their column into the undecided column. It's literally all to play for for Labour now. If Boris is still there in 2024 I could see Labour getting very close to a majority or even a working majority atm.
It's going to be a very long 4 years for the party if they don't dump Boris.
I can't see how Boris makes it another 4 years. I can see Tory party pushing him out and spinning it as him going having never fully recovered from coronavirus.
I think Johnson will be there for the next election - and I'm betting that way - but I hope he is brought down and I hope it's in humiliating circumstances. He deserves it.
I like to have respect for the PM of this country. It's important to me, regardless of which party is in power, that I can feel this way. And despite being no Tory, I have been able to feel this way about every Conservative PM of my adult lifetime. Thatcher, Major, Cameron, May. Every one. Why? Because, whilst hating their politics much of the time, I could sense some integrity and diligence and sense of public service in the individuaI.
But this guy - this "Boris" character - he would not recognize any of these things if he fell over them. He is about nothing more elevated than himself. Born into privilege he has done little with it except feed his own vanity and need for the spotlight. He is a piss-taker.
And this means - for the very first time - I find it impossible to respect the person leading the country. Which makes me feel bad. I feel bad about it. A bit sick even, when I dwell on it.
So I want him gone. And I want him punished for putting me through this.
Fuck off Boris.
You respected Theresa May? The woman who sent vans telling immigrants to Go Home?
Weren't the vans just satirical comedy? Nothing sinister about them at all, you know, just like, picanninies, water melon smiles, bank robbers and letter boxes.
If I missed the satirical context, like the rest of the article those quotes were taken from, then I'd love to see it!
Btw at these prices you can back both sides to lock in a small profit. Be careful if you attempt this because one bookmaker might accept your stake and the other one knock you back.
4/9 stay sounds good to me. I thought it was done and dusted in terms of him staying.
Am I the only person on this site who can't stand Theresa May and finds her morally awful?
I don't understand it. I quit the party when she became leader as I can't stand the vile woman. I can't stand anyone who shouts at immigrants to "GO HOME" yet to listen to people here you'd swear she was a paragon of virtue.
Dom said "Fuck you" to every parent who didn't break quarantine to visit their parents, and go for a drive in the country on their wife's birthday.
And the other 90% shrug their shoulders and wonder why the BBC is making such a big deal over this.
The MSM have to be faced down.
Did you feel the same way about the Scottish CMO? Or all the well-trodden repeats about stuff Corbyn did 30 years ago? Or criticism of Emily Thornberry for slagging off people who live on housing estates? Or Ed Miliband making a funny face while he had breakfast?
If you believe all of those are probably unwise in hindsight but no reason for media outlets to "make such a big deal", then I'd cut you some slack on this one.
And frankly, I'm not sure why you're going at the BBC when well-known lefties Nick Ferrari, Tim Montgomerie and, er, the Daily Mail are being rather more persistent.
If the same thing happened to any of us with young children without access to an empty house, it would be a pretty scary situation. Puts into perspective how different dealing with the virus is between the richest and the poorest. Hopefully that will be taken into account in future policies - there are many stealth taxes on the poor that dont appear on the statute.
That said, if we were offered the chance of such access I doubt many people would turn it down.
Agree. But then most of us aren't the government's senior advisor responsible for the policy saying it shouldn't be done.
Myself, I would still do what I thought best for my family if I were the government's senior advisor
I suppose that's why you are posting on PB instead of being that advisor.
That doesn't make sense, the senior advisor did it!
The point is that you are not prepared to make the many sacrifices that go with being the government's senior advisor. Hence you, and most others on here, stick to posting on PB.
Because if you are the government's senior advisor you should be aware that rules and expectations which don't apply to most people may well apply to you.
You can go out if you think it's absolutely necessary you know. It's a £60 fine the first time you're caught or something, less than weed, and everyone smokes weed.
I went to the shittiest of state schools and even I understand that sometimes you have to take personal responsibility in a shitty situation. And it sounds like his child is not particularly well a lot of the time.
You are the government's senior advisor. You helped to formulate the rules. Which you then broke.
Same question to you as yesterday: which is worse, a 17-yr old scrote stealing a Mars Bar from Tesco or the Chief Constable stealing a Mars Bar from Tesco?
This is why Dom in the garden yesterday is clever. In journalism, everything is black and white, there's only one side, it's all Good or Bad.
Turns out real life is nuanced. It's a human story now. There's exceptional circumstances. This site was unified against him before it, now there is at least some debate, because it's murky, and it's real. So the media lost. Maybe the chief constable has diabetes and collapsed before he got to the till, and there's a rule that says you only need the wrapper to pay.
That's not stealing a Mars - you need a mens rea for that. IANAL and even I know that. The scenario specified 'stealing'.
Just like Cummings didn't break the law. Same thing.
Btw at these prices you can back both sides to lock in a small profit. Be careful if you attempt this because one bookmaker might accept your stake and the other one knock you back.
4-9 is a decent price for him to stay now I think and I've taken the max Paddy will allow me, which was £33.80. Like implementing quarantine as Sir Humphrey would say "Well it's too late to do anything about it now".
How many of them will be the same people who signed the Revoke Article 50 petition?
Remember the 4 million strong petition that kept being reported on?
That worked so well didn't it.
That argument isn't strictly logical.
We are in the 'what if' argument here though. Certainly if very large numbers hadn't marched or signed petitions nothing probably would have changed. That could have been a big part of a change (or maybe not) but the LDs/SNP took the gamble and enabled the election. Once Boris had the 80 majority it was done and dusted and so the marches/petitions became redundant.
So if the latter hadn't happened the former may have (or not) been influential.
PS personally I agree with you. I don't think that petition will be influential unless it increases by at least a factor of 10 and I am not seeing the same motivation to sign, but I could be wrong. Sadly I often am.
Sorry I realise I have given the wrong impression in that post. When I said 'sadly I am' that was self deprecation. It was not that I wanted a lot to sign the petition. I have no strong feelings on it and haven't signed myself.
Fantastic! Thatcher won another landslide after the Westland 'crisis' - an excellent omen.
Fantastic indeed! Specifically, a year later she won a lower share of the popular vote than May did in 2017 when we had a hung parliament. So if that's an omen, I'd settle for it coming true in a 2021 general election. We would be back to two party politics and I doubt whether the DUP would play Johnson onside this time either. We would probably end up with another election in 2021 or 2022, possibly after PM Starmer's short-lived government had fallen after facing down SNP demands.
By my unscientific finger in the air method the Tory party has just shifted 3m votes from their column into the undecided column. It's literally all to play for for Labour now. If Boris is still there in 2024 I could see Labour getting very close to a majority or even a working majority atm.
It's going to be a very long 4 years for the party if they don't dump Boris.
Yes, of course they should dump their best election winner in 32 years over a single incident. Remember when Boris' prorogation was overturned? When he expelled 20 MPs from his own party, was in deep minority, and faced a die-in-a-ditch deadline within weeks?
The received wisdom was that he was finished then too. It is comically lacking in perspective to believe that he is finished now with a majority of 80, Labour 163 seats behind, and 4 years to plan strategy for the next election.
The difference then is that Boris was (fairly or unfairly) cast as the saviour of the people vs the elites. That strategy isn't going to be available to him and Dom next time. This has taken away Boris' USP as a man of the people. The consensus view of Boris among those who would consider voting for him is "he might be rich and a toff but he's not like the rest of them". That's been completely shattered today.
You are completely blinkered if you think Boris will win another majority.
"Boris' USP as a man of the people"
Not sure he ever had that.
I think he does, or perhaps rather did. From HIGNFY to winning Labour London for the Conservatives and then championing the Olympics, he showed a deft touch that belied his Etonian education. He reached across the political spectrum as, indeed, he did by winning last year.
He has really blown it through standing by Cummings. More even than his lack of judgement and his failure to capture the mood of the country, it shows he is insecure and weak. And those are terrible qualities in a PM. The last (godawful) PM we had like that was Gordon Brown.
Standing up to the media shows he is weak.
Couldn't make it up 😂😂😂😂😂😂
The accusations of cowardice and weakness are entirely predictable but truly bizarre. If Boris was weak or a coward Cummings would have gone. Period. The fact that he has not gone shows Boris is neither. Whether he is right to invest so much of his personal capital in supporting an advisor is of course a different question.
It shows that Cummings is a crutch. Johnson cannot manage without him. That's the (hardly bizarre) rationale behind the accusation.
If you admit Cummings is a lying toerag does it not then reflect on the VoteLeave campaign itself? Gove & Johnson have too much invested in Cummings and have to maintain the myth that he is a man of "honesty and integrity"
Why listen to a jumped up idiot like Piers Morgan. His opinion is worth £0.00
Btw at these prices you can back both sides to lock in a small profit. Be careful if you attempt this because one bookmaker might accept your stake and the other one knock you back.
4-9 is a decent price for him to stay now I think and I've taken the max Paddy will allow me, which was £33.80. Like implementing quarantine as Sir Humphrey would say "Well it's too late to do anything about it now".
Two tweets supportive of Ross from Davidson and Tomkins won't have added to the gaiety of Carlaw's morning.....
It actually wouldn't be a bad thing. It starts him off on the right foot having stuck it to Boris and Cummings. It proves he is independent and principled. There is just the small matter of being elected to Holyrood...
Not sure if it's in the SCon constitution that their leader has to be at Holyrood, though it helps obvs. Otoh Jim Murphy is not a happy precedent.
The words Jim and Murphy always bring gaiety into my existence.
Scots, even Scots Tories, like a bonnie fechter. Inserting his tongue far up The Clown’s posterior is unlikely to bring Carlaw joy at the ballot box. I wouldn’t call Ross “independent” nor “principled”, but he is not as stale as Carlaw, and could well do better with voters.
If you admit Cummings is a lying toerag does it not then reflect on the VoteLeave campaign itself? Gove & Johnson have too much invested in Cummings and have to maintain the myth that he is a man of "honesty and integrity"
Why listen to a jumped up idiot like Piers Morgan. His opinion is worth £0.00
I'm pretty shocked at that. Why are you overvaluing his opinion so drastically?!
" Another MP said the situation "feels more poll tax than ERM, actually." "
Telegraph
I can't quite work out what distinction is being drawn here.
Any ideas?
The poll tax didn’t cost the Tories the next election because they ditched their leader?
Given the purge of Tory MPs in 2019 I would think Johnson is the safest Conservative Party leader in history.
Given what is going on right now in the world and country that's a pretty daft comment. He may be fine but events dear boy, events.
I think any other leader of the Conservative Party would have faced more explicit criticism of his judgement from his own MPs, but he hasn't because they're scared.
Indeed, I'd have thought in most previous Cabinets you would have had senior ministers telling the PM privately that this was not tenable.
It's only because Johnson's position is so strong that he's been allowed to make such a huge mistake over this.
Strong position. Weak man.
And it's the combination of those factors that's causing the trouble. If Boris were a stronger person, he wouldn't have felt the need to do the bizarre press conference on Sunday, or let Dom weave the tales he did yesterday. Either Dom would have been dumped, or a clear line to move on would have been put out. But because Boris desperately wants to be wanted, there has to be a story to make everything better, and it has to be a better story than "Dom is terribly important, can essentially do whatever he wants and Durham is nicer than London".
And it's that unwillingness to say something that's unpleasant but much more truthful than the eye test thing that's tying everyone up in knots.
No its because of those who view families trying to do their best in difficult circumstances below being nasty hacks interested in partisan politics trying to bring down someone they perceive as an enemy.
Does anyone other Piers and Scott care about twitter 'trends'. You need about 0.005% of the country to get something 'trending', yet it means nothing in the real world.
Piers cares only about his own role in creating Twitter 'trends'.
The impotent fury of the outraged on Twitter not getting their man is the one redeeming feature of this sorry tale for me.
You can dismiss twitter etc and I don't necessarily disagree but are you really saying that this hasn't damaged Boris's government?
I still think that the Cummings saga is a bit of a red herring, except for it demonstrating how much Boris needs him. But why does Boris need him?
The answer is that Boris is not fit to be Prime Minister, and this is the important revelation of the last three months. He is too lazy and not willing to do the hard graft of that office. He was a very poor Foreign Secretary. He does not do detail. He avoids scrutiny and accountability. He does not lead. He can present a script and make some good jokes, but that's about it. And he has not appointed a good enough team for him to delegate effectively. Hence Cummings.
Whatever you think of May (and I don't think much), I remember her appearing for days on end in the House of Commons answering questions on the Brexit negotiations. Totally on top of her brief, grasping the detail and so on. Being accountable. I just can't imagine Boris doing this - he wouldn't know his stuff. This is why he's done everything he can to avoid scrutiny by the Liaison Committee.
Whatever you think of Blair and Brown, they did detail. And although Cameron was reputedly lazy, he wasn't as idle as Boris, and had Osborne and others to delegate to.
Boris is bright and has charisma, but he's been over-promoted and will, ultimately, fail. It's just not the right job for him.
Comments
So for that, yes, I could respect her whilst disliking and disagreeing with much of her politics.
Not so, this vacuous entitled charlatan.
Not everything and certainly not everybody is black and white, good or bad. In the round, yes I find her less objectionable than Johnson.
Honestly, I really really hope Cummings stays. For Keir Starmer's Labour it's the best possible outcome.
But this isn't a media storm. Huge swathe of the country are angry and hurt.
https://twitter.com/petermacmahon/status/1265232495349465088
I see Mr Carson has a majority of about 1.5K. A constituency MSP for Galloway & W Dumf. So much more vulnerable than a mere list MSP such as Prof Tomkins.
Really?
https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1265241776589279235
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8357333/NHS-gets-green-light-treat-coronavirus-patients-Ebola-drug-remdesivir.html
Cummings has never been angry with the unaccountable elite, he has been angry with the fact that he wasn't that elite.
The revenge will be mighty and terrible.
And BoZo is soooooo much worse.
Remember the 4 million strong petition that kept being reported on?
That worked so well didn't it.
Dom said "Fuck you" to every parent who didn't break quarantine to visit their parents, and go for a drive in the country on their wife's birthday.
I don't understand why he used the eyesight excuse, though. It seems so odd. You were allowed out for daily exercise at the time, so why not just say that? It would have been pushing it a bit but it wasn't halfway across the country. The original trip north was the major problem as far as rule-breaking went.
Caveat: This is all assuming the reported effect is genuine.
What are friends for, eh?
I've not commented on Cummings specifically thus far because I'm not equipped to. I'm not a parent and I don't know what I would do if confronted by the situation in which Cummings found himself on that Thursday evening and Friday morning.
For the vast majority (NOT, I emphasise, everyone as will come out in the days and weeks ahead), "Home" is a place of safety, security, comfort and control. That's why lockdown was so successful - because people felt safe at home and once they figured out how to keep themselves fed and entertained it wasn't so bad for a lot of people.
Cummings didn't feel safe at "home" and I thought this from his statement was telling:
"But these stories had created a very bad atmosphere around my home. I was subject to threats of violence. People came to my house shouting threats. There were posts on social media, encouraging attacks. There were many media reports on TV showing pictures of my house."
Now, one could argue he was the architect of his own misfortune and there's an important maxim worth remembering at this time:
"It doesn't matter who writes the history - what matters is who re-writes it".
There will be those who argue, irrespective of his role, Cummings has the same right we all do to feel safe in his own house. I have some sympathy with that and if it is the "mob" which has forced him to up sticks and drive to Durham that's something to consider.
I'm also curious as to the notion of his own indispensability to No.10 and the Prime Minister. I've met his type (and it's a female trait too) in my career - however sick they are, whatever problems they have, they have to be at work because the world can't function without them.
In the world of digital technology, that's absurd. When your family has a serious health situation, that's even more absurd. No one is indispensable.
No-one's buying it.
This supposed 'scandal' doesn't even have a catchy name yet, FFS, and _everything_ gets a catchy name these days. 'Cummingsgate' doesn't exactly trip off the tongue...
CorrectHorseBattery is the worst poster on this site
Maybe Cummings should just have said all these trips were for exercise. No illegality and no breach of the self-isolation guidance.
Irony because it's Osborne but still seems good to me
"If I were Eric Cantona, I'd have Kung fu kicked that Palace fan too"
"That's why you're posting on here not playing for Man Utd"
The MSM have to be faced down.
The dumb idiot overthought it, alongside everything else.
You would have thought that would have killed petitions, but there they still are.
edit: or won't do in the future, when people start using it deliberately in 'adult' content.
* Julia Hartley-Brewer
* Iain Dale
* Tim Montgomerie
* The chief executive of Conservative Home
* A Tory minister
* Tory backbenchers
* The Daily Mail
Please update your records accordingly
Best headline "stay eilte" exact opposite of what Cummings reckons he is
The simple fact that no one seems able to stick to a single explanation is what undermines the whole thing as far as I am concerned. It give the appearance of them making it up as they go along.
We are in the 'what if' argument here though. Certainly if very large numbers hadn't marched or signed petitions nothing probably would have changed. That could have been a big part of a change (or maybe not) but the LDs/SNP took the gamble and enabled the election. Once Boris had the 80 majority it was done and dusted and so the marches/petitions became redundant.
So if the latter hadn't happened the former may have (or not) been influential.
(1) The 2019 'Revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU' Petition got 6,103,056 signatures.
RESULT: We didn't revoke Article 50, and left the EU.
(2) The 2016 'EU Referendum Rules triggering a 2nd EU Referendum' got 4,150,262 votes.
RESULT: We didn't hold a second EU Referendum.
(3) The 2017 'Prevent Donald Trump from making a State Visit to the United Kingdom' Petition got 1,863,708 votes.
RESULT: President Donald Trump made a State Visit to the UK.
Are we beginning to see a pattern? Looks like you're the one grasping at straws
Jackson Carlaw is already an also-ran at the bookies, currently priced at 25/1 to be Next FM, which is longer than Labour’s Richard Leonard, at 20/1.
Considering that his party are miles ahead of SLab in the VI polls, it seems odd that he is not shorter than the useless Leonard.
With Ross, Tomkins and Davidson being uncooperative, Carlaw is in for a trying 12 months. Will he make it?
Mr Cummings reminds me of President Trump, in that he annoys the people who really deserve to be annoyed.
A Cabinet Minister being caught infringing lockdown.
Do you reckon they've all been beyond reproach? I doubt it.
If you believe all of those are probably unwise in hindsight but no reason for media outlets to "make such a big deal", then I'd cut you some slack on this one.
And frankly, I'm not sure why you're going at the BBC when well-known lefties Nick Ferrari, Tim Montgomerie and, er, the Daily Mail are being rather more persistent.
Not that we're going to get a 2021 election.
Scots, even Scots Tories, like a bonnie fechter. Inserting his tongue far up The Clown’s posterior is unlikely to bring Carlaw joy at the ballot box. I wouldn’t call Ross “independent” nor “principled”, but he is not as stale as Carlaw, and could well do better with voters.
And it's that unwillingness to say something that's unpleasant but much more truthful than the eye test thing that's tying everyone up in knots.
Labour was right to stay out of this
So the speech went well then
They've responded to Cummings' response in possibly the worst way possible
The answer is that Boris is not fit to be Prime Minister, and this is the important revelation of the last three months. He is too lazy and not willing to do the hard graft of that office. He was a very poor Foreign Secretary. He does not do detail. He avoids scrutiny and accountability. He does not lead. He can present a script and make some good jokes, but that's about it. And he has not appointed a good enough team for him to delegate effectively. Hence Cummings.
Whatever you think of May (and I don't think much), I remember her appearing for days on end in the House of Commons answering questions on the Brexit negotiations. Totally on top of her brief, grasping the detail and so on. Being accountable. I just can't imagine Boris doing this - he wouldn't know his stuff. This is why he's done everything he can to avoid scrutiny by the Liaison Committee.
Whatever you think of Blair and Brown, they did detail. And although Cameron was reputedly lazy, he wasn't as idle as Boris, and had Osborne and others to delegate to.
Boris is bright and has charisma, but he's been over-promoted and will, ultimately, fail. It's just not the right job for him.