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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Cummings press conference – what’s your verdict?

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  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751

    tyson said:

    My fear (well the fear of my father and his fellow medical professionals, sorry Eadric) is that the next wave will coincide with normal flu season/Christmas.

    The government will say the elderly/vulnerable should shield, but people will ignore that and go visit elderly/vulnerable family over Christmas and they'll you have an even higher death toll than during the first wave.

    Has any other country had a “second wave”? If we don’t have a vaccine by then, we’ll have to live with the virus. We can’t go through this lockdown hell again.

    On the general point of second waves, there has been no instance of which I'm aware of there being a major second outbreak after the end of the first, and even if such a thing were to happen in this country then I don't see why the virus would unaccountably lay dormant all through the Autumn and return with a vengeance in December.

    If it's going to get bad again then one would've thought that it would start to happen following further easing of the lockdown restrictions, i.e. at some point during the Summer. Because if the shops open and that doesn't do much harm then we get at least some of the hospitality trade back in July, if that also does no harm we'll probably get the rest of it in August, if that does no harm we'll get the schoolkids back en masse in September, and if all of that doesn't cause a mass outbreak then I doubt that anything else will.

    It seems to me that the only reason to imagine that the disease will wait and wait and wait until the Winter flu season is that a worse outcome can scarcely be imagined, but that's not a logical supposition - but I'm no expert, and if there is some good scientific reason for supposing a lengthy period of dormancy until Winter, regardless of whatever else occurs in the intervening six months, then I stand to be corrected.
    That is exactly what happens with the flu...that is why they call it seasonal.....

    I don' think we'll do a lockdown again.....but I cannot imagine this Xmas is going to be overfilling with parties......
    The behaviour of Covid-19 doesn't appear to have been seasonal.
    Because for flu there is immunity in the population and people are vaccinated and the transmissibility is much lower than for COVID-19 anyway. For those reasons, any seasonal variation in COVID-19 isn't going to be the main factor as it is with flu.

    But if you imagine R being somewhere around 1 after we come out of lockdown, seasonal variation might a difference between outbreaks dying away and outbreaks growing into a second wave.

    If we're foolish enough to try to go completely back to normal while there are more cases than can be controlled through tracing, then of course there will be a second wave long before the winter.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482

    Biggest question I have now is how the UK hangs together when in a few days England and Scotland at least are one whole step out of phase. Boris is talking about phase 2 from June 1. Sturgeon is talking about phase 1 from 28 May.

    And the gap in lockdown restriction easing is getting bigger not smaller.

    It's a political opportunity for unionism if Scotland requires furlough money for longer. Played carefully, it could even benefit the non-existent Scottish Tories, as they could be given a role in 'tense behind the scenes negotiations with the Chancellor'.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    IanB2 said:

    Just as a question: @Philip_Thompson - as the father of a young lad yourself, would you, if there was reason to suspect your eyesight might be impaired, test it by going for a 30-mile drive with your son in the car? Rather than, say, wait a few more days and check in over Zoom.

    I really wouldn’t, myself, but I’m wondering if I’m overcautious

    If I felt my vision currently impaired I wouldn't get behind the wheel.

    If I felt safe to drive but was concerned after a serious illness I'd certainly consider a short drive first before setting off on a cross country drive.
    I would have thought it is possible to reassure yourself about your eyesight, or otherwise, without having to get behind the wheel of a car.
    I'd only get behind the wheel if I felt my eyesight was up to it. But if I'd been sick or not driven for a long time I always do short drives before going on cross country drives.
    For 30 miles?
    Half an hour normally for me personally as a rule of thumb. Not sure what the speed limit is there.
    For 30 miles, yes or no.
    If the speed limit is 60 then yes.

    PS the half hour rule of thumb I've followed since I was 18, came from an RAC agent.
    You still going with this? :D
  • This is a car crash
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Pulpstar said:

    Journalists are much better at the political scandal than the general health questions.

    On home turf, none of this complicated sciency / mathsy stuff.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413
    edited May 2020
    He Is certainly helping me make up my mind here.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    Well I errm err arr arr
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    Christ this is genius. There was a brief moment when the fire had stopped raging, and anger may have been dissipating, but Johnson just poured a bucket of petrol on the whole thing.

    He is now on about wearing spectacles and eyesight and virus.

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Does the virus affect eyesight?

    Did he drive at night? I needed glasses to drive until my eyesight lengthened with age. If I didn't have them driving by day was fine; motorway driving at night was lethal because it is almost impossible to judge relative distances of the red lights in front of you (cf. Father Ted, smaller vs further away).
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    Christ fucks your eyesight up.
  • Oh Christ. He remains silent on all of it except to say that the Barnard Castle eye test was "credible".
  • This is astonishing, it's like Trump's press conferences
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    Car crash.

    Did it?

    So his eyesight was really bad then?

    Fancy taking his child
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999

    Christ this is genius. There was a brief moment when the fire had stopped raging, and anger may have been dissipating, but Johnson just poured a bucket of petrol on the whole thing.

    He is now on about wearing spectacles and eyesight and virus.

    He'll be talking about bleach before long.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    Taunting the press with his glasses. Got to love him!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    IanB2 said:

    Just as a question: @Philip_Thompson - as the father of a young lad yourself, would you, if there was reason to suspect your eyesight might be impaired, test it by going for a 30-mile drive with your son in the car? Rather than, say, wait a few more days and check in over Zoom.

    I really wouldn’t, myself, but I’m wondering if I’m overcautious

    If I felt my vision currently impaired I wouldn't get behind the wheel.

    If I felt safe to drive but was concerned after a serious illness I'd certainly consider a short drive first before setting off on a cross country drive.
    I would have thought it is possible to reassure yourself about your eyesight, or otherwise, without having to get behind the wheel of a car.
    I'd only get behind the wheel if I felt my eyesight was up to it. But if I'd been sick or not driven for a long time I always do short drives before going on cross country drives.
    For 30 miles?
    Half an hour normally for me personally as a rule of thumb. Not sure what the speed limit is there.
    For 30 miles, yes or no.
    If the speed limit is 60 then yes.

    PS the half hour rule of thumb I've followed since I was 18, came from an RAC agent.
    It's just not worth me responding to you anymore.
    Why because I answered a yes or no question with a yes? Is it only ok to answer a yes or no question with a no?
  • ukpaulukpaul Posts: 649

    Has any other country had a “second wave”? If we don’t have a vaccine by then, we’ll have to live with the virus. We can’t go through this lockdown hell again.

    Iran has for the last couple of weeks, it seems that American states are seeing the same. The virus seems to take a few weeks to take a hold, probably when it gets enough superspreaders. The only to not have another lockdown is to follow countries like Taiwan and Korea and take the measures that they are doing. The other avenues are pretty much closed down now.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751

    BJ was too ill to really take in that he was initially told about Dom's road trip. Handy..

    I don't think BJ made up being ill and going into intensive care to give a handy covering of a story that would come out months later.
    Uhuh.
    Have there been studies on Covid-19 amnesia and is it likely to have affected BJ right up to his patchy recall of the narrative he gave yesterday?
    What with the eyesight problems and the strange mental confusion about the story, I think we may be getting the first hint of a "three monkeys" syndrome in Johnson and Cummings.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    edited May 2020
    Pulpstar said:

    Journalists are much better at the political scandal than the general health questions.

    It's all they know.

    Look how over the moon they are, at not having to try and understand epidemiology.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    The media is about to dissove in a puddle of piss ... a joyous moment!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    dixiedean said:

    Boris admits he was told where Dom was. Just too ill that it didn't register. Tries to follow it up with some emoting.
    He isn't Blair.

    For this relief much thanks.
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,019
    Mortimer said:

    Excellent presser from Cummings.

    A 'till they drop' press conference straight out of the Arnie Vinick playbook.

    Dom is safe. The media are found wanting, again.

    And the country is fucked beyond all measure.

    Nothing new, of course, but there's no hint of even a turnaround in sight.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908
    edited May 2020
    Pulpstar said:

    Journalists are much better at the political scandal than the general health questions.

    Back on firm ground.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    I'm not heading out any more, I like my eyesight too much !
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Tories are if nothing else very effective at getting rid of leaders, they will axe him in 2021.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Bozza Johnson should take a break, seriously. He needs a rest and it’s a farce having him continue in this state. Let someone else act as caretaker and give him a month off.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102

    Christ this is genius. There was a brief moment when the fire had stopped raging, and anger may have been dissipating, but Johnson just poured a bucket of petrol on the whole thing.

    He is now on about wearing spectacles and eyesight and virus.

    To be fair I do wonder if this is a side effect of a serious dose of covid
  • SaltireSaltire Posts: 525
    This press conference should be about what else could be re-opening in the coming weeks and somewhat positive.
    But instead it is sidetracked to being all about Cummings and not about the country and what is going to be changing in the future.
  • BJTBJT Posts: 14
    View from my Mum in Chippenham: "I felt sorry for him, it was like a witch hunt."

    Personally I think the entire conference was a ghastly mistake. And the sooner he just apologies for misinterpreting the rules (but I did it for my family) the sooner we can focus on the more important issues.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    What shit journalism. Don't ask a 2nd question taht is about the stuff he wants to talk about e.g shops.

    Twats
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    edited May 2020

    Biggest question I have now is how the UK hangs together when in a few days England and Scotland at least are one whole step out of phase. Boris is talking about phase 2 from June 1. Sturgeon is talking about phase 1 from 28 May.

    And the gap in lockdown restriction easing is getting bigger not smaller.

    It's a political opportunity for unionism if Scotland requires furlough money for longer. Played carefully, it could even benefit the non-existent Scottish Tories, as they could be given a role in 'tense behind the scenes negotiations with the Chancellor'.
    As if anyone would believe that the SCons wouldn't fold like a house of cards in the unlikely event of HMG asking them what they thought.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    tlg86 said:

    Johnson's finished.

    Care to put a date on it? 'Cos that's bollocks.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Pulpstar said:

    Christ fucks your eyesight up.

    Thats not as good as his loaves and fishes trick though
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    The media is about to dissove in a puddle of piss ... a joyous moment!

    They know the format, in fact they agreed to it. They must be seething he's batting them off so easily. I think having Dom doing the presser was a good idea
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119

    Bozza Johnson should take a break, seriously. He needs a rest and it’s a farce having him continue in this state. Let someone else act as caretaker and give him a month off.

    I genuinely.think he will be retired. He has got the Tories a majority, now he is just a liability.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Just as a question: @Philip_Thompson - as the father of a young lad yourself, would you, if there was reason to suspect your eyesight might be impaired, test it by going for a 30-mile drive with your son in the car? Rather than, say, wait a few more days and check in over Zoom.

    I really wouldn’t, myself, but I’m wondering if I’m overcautious

    If I felt my vision currently impaired I wouldn't get behind the wheel.

    If I felt safe to drive but was concerned after a serious illness I'd certainly consider a short drive first before setting off on a cross country drive.
    With your kid in the car?
    I wouldn’t, not if there was any reasonable chance I might be incapable. Such as when he was too sick to continue for a while at Barnard’s Castle.
    I don't think he said he was too sick to continue did he? I thought he said his child needed to relieve themselves?

    Anyway I've regularly driven in the car with my children and felt the need to pull over because I'm tired from the drive and need a break before continuing. Motorways across the country always say to take a break. I don't see that as an issue?
    He said that they stopped at Barnard's Castle near the river because he felt to sick to continue.

    Note that at this point, Mary (who had been a lot less ill) did not take over the driving duties.

    They were spotted by an elderly gentleman, who said hello.

    Then he was feeling better and they headed off. The kid said he needed the loo, which was why they were seen outside all playing together and enjoying the woods at the local beauty spot.
    That's reasonable to me. If you're driving and feel you need to stop Highway Code advice is to take a rest it's not that someone else has to take over and continue immediately.
    The Highway Code says if you cannot drive with care and attention you should not be behind the wheel.

    This is almost as idiotic as your trying to defend immigration with saying FOM is racist!
    Who's saying he couldn't drive without care and attention? Not me.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Saltire said:

    This press conference should be about what else could be re-opening in the coming weeks and somewhat positive.
    But instead it is sidetracked to being all about Cummings and not about the country and what is going to be changing in the future.

    Yep. A timetable on hospitality, hotels, pubs and holidays would have been nice. But no.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    Sandpit said:

    algarkirk said:

    Verdict? A farrago of confected nonsense put together only once enough time had passed to know what were the hard bits of evidence his case had to meet - hence the admission he had been to Barnard Castle.

    His description carefully included all the firm sightings, and placed them in as innocent a context as possible. It ended up all too smooth to be anything other than a post hoc rationalisation. It included as little as possible which might one day be contradicted by new evidence. So a reasonable effort except for one thing.

    The Barnard Castle thing on Easter Day had always stood out as a problem, and the failure to admit or account for it earlier suggests a hope, until yesterday (PM evaded it) or today, that it could be denied.

    His explanation was plainly fanciful. Really apart from complex and true explanations (which of the lawful sort were clearly not available) he would have done better to use 'exercise'. Actually I think he was on a trip out, unlike the millions denied a trip to church on Easter Day.

    His weakness here undermines his credibility generally. So, ultimately a fail.

    Except that he explicitly said he didn't go to the castle.

    He went with his family for a short drive, because he wasn't sure if driving would make him feel unwell, and wanted to take a short drive before undertaking a much longer drive back to work.

    They went to the outskirts of the castle town, stopped by the river briefly, then returned to their lodgings. They didn't go to the castle.

    (This is why I said initially that people's impressions of this afternoon's performance will vary hugely, depending on whether they watched it live or not).
    I don't know how you can keep your face straight repeating that story. He knew he'd been rumbled and there was proof he'd been seen in Barnard Castle and that cock-and-bull story is about the best he could come up with to try and justify it. I did watch it live by the way.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Saltire said:

    This press conference should be about what else could be re-opening in the coming weeks and somewhat positive.
    But instead it is sidetracked to being all about Cummings and not about the country and what is going to be changing in the future.

    And that hospital deaths look like probably be sub 100 per day by end of the week.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    Tories are if nothing else very effective at getting rid of leaders, they will axe him in 2021.

    They were't terribly efficient at getting rid of the last one - it seemed to rumble on forever.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,555
    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pro Cummings tweets from Hancock and Raab

    https://twitter.com/MattHancock/status/1264975804208947208?s=20

    https://twitter.com/DominicRaab/status/1264968022239981569?s=20


    Rishi Sunak followed Boris and backed Cummings over the weekend
    https://twitter.com/RishiSunak/status/1264138986848759809?s=20

    Still no tweets or statements of support for Cummings from Priti Patel

    She’s cunning.
    Watch the words with care. None of them lend actual support to the totality of the story or exonerate DC.
  • Johnson seemed a little, rattled
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102

    Bozza Johnson should take a break, seriously. He needs a rest and it’s a farce having him continue in this state. Let someone else act as caretaker and give him a month off.

    I have been saying that for sometime
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    That was Corbyn level stuff.
  • 'king hell. Why didn't they get a safe pair of hands like Shapps or Jenrick to do it rather than that lightweight dickhead?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    The government is reduced to using public health relaxations as ineffectual dead cats to distract from the fury caused by the Prime Minister’s chief adviser. That all by itself shows why he needs to resign.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Brom said:

    Taunting the press with his glasses. Got to love him!

    Glad you are enjoying him trying to move on, and failing miserably

    Guess what the best way to do that would be.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,620
    Pulpstar said:

    Journalists are much better at the political scandal than the general health questions.

    I'm not sure they are better but they are more interested in it.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908

    Bozza Johnson should take a break, seriously. He needs a rest and it’s a farce having him continue in this state. Let someone else act as caretaker and give him a month off.

    I genuinely.think he will be retired. He has got the Tories a majority, now he is just a liability.
    I can't believe that any Tory MP has watched the last couple of days and thought "he's doing a good job".
  • Genuinely one of the worst conferences he has done
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149

    Bozza Johnson should take a break, seriously. He needs a rest and it’s a farce having him continue in this state. Let someone else act as caretaker and give him a month off.

    Not going to happen. People acted ridiculously about unclear authority to make decisions even when he had a named deputy and was in intensive care, there's no way those same people accept Boris could take a break to recover.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Not if his eyesight wasn't defective.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    PSA: It’s pronounced “Bar-nud Cassle” not “Bar-nard Car-Sell”
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599

    What shit journalism. Don't ask a 2nd question taht is about the stuff he wants to talk about e.g shops.

    Twats

    I think the public care about shops.
    They care an awful lot more about shops, than they do about the PM's advisor!
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pro Cummings tweets from Hancock and Raab

    https://twitter.com/MattHancock/status/1264975804208947208?s=20

    https://twitter.com/DominicRaab/status/1264968022239981569?s=20


    Rishi Sunak followed Boris and backed Cummings over the weekend
    https://twitter.com/RishiSunak/status/1264138986848759809?s=20

    Still no tweets or statements of support for Cummings from Priti Patel

    She’s cunning.
    Or possibly cunnin.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    Brom said:

    Taunting the press with his glasses. Got to love him!

    Glad you are enjoying him trying to move on, and failing miserably

    Guess what the best way to do that would be.
    In fairness he did fine there. Handles questions with ease
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,798
    Brom said:

    One other positive for Dom is he came across as fairly normal and not some kind of scuttling weirdo. For any fans he has lost he might gain a few new ones

    He managed to act like a normal person when he answered each question, but in between his facial features would slip into a weird sneer before he would hastily rearrange them again for the next question.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    I am now even angrier than when Johnson started.

    Unbelievable performance. An absolute low in this whole saga.

    Apart from anything else gave the impression that he can't be bothered answering any of this stuff anymore.

  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    I am now even angrier than when Johnson started.

    Unbelievable performance. An absolute low in this whole saga.

    Apart from anything else gave the impression that he can't be bothered answering any of this stuff anymore.

    Wasn't Cummings meant to be gone by now? You seemed pretty certain about it.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    PSA: It’s pronounced “Bar-nud Cassle” not “Bar-nard Car-Sell”

    Was that one thing DC got right when he was speaking?
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884

    My fear (well the fear of my father and his fellow medical professionals, sorry Eadric) is that the next wave will coincide with normal flu season/Christmas.

    The government will say the elderly/vulnerable should shield, but people will ignore that and go visit elderly/vulnerable family over Christmas and they'll you have an even higher death toll than during the first wave.

    Has any other country had a “second wave”? If we don’t have a vaccine by then, we’ll have to live with the virus. We can’t go through this lockdown hell again.

    On the general point of second waves, there has been no instance of which I'm aware of there being a major second outbreak after the end of the first, and even if such a thing were to happen in this country then I don't see why the virus would unaccountably lay dormant all through the Autumn and return with a vengeance in December.

    If it's going to get bad again then one would've thought that it would start to happen following further easing of the lockdown restrictions, i.e. at some point during the Summer. Because if the shops open and that doesn't do much harm then we get at least some of the hospitality trade back in July, if that also does no harm we'll probably get the rest of it in August, if that does no harm we'll get the schoolkids back en masse in September, and if all of that doesn't cause a mass outbreak then I doubt that anything else will.

    It seems to me that the only reason to imagine that the disease will wait and wait and wait until the Winter flu season is that a worse outcome can scarcely be imagined, but that's not a logical supposition - but I'm no expert, and if there is some good scientific reason for supposing a lengthy period of dormancy until Winter, regardless of whatever else occurs in the intervening six months, then I stand to be corrected.
    Well quite. There seems to be a weird assumption that a) there will be a second wave (despite the fact that no other country has had one) and b) it will arrive at the worst possible time in the depths of winter.

    Now, both a) and b) might prove true, but what are these assumptions based on? Evidence or hyperbole?
    I was expecting(?) two spikes anyway. We should be in the middle of the second one if it was going to happen. In addition, if the relaxation announced two weeks ago had gone wrong, we should see strong evidence of it by now. I squint and I squint and I'm not sure I see owt. Next likely one in two weeks time, keep an eye out.

    *its not quite the right word, but its near enough

    The likely presence of a second wave is based on three underlying assumptions, as far as I can see. First is historical - that the last big pandemic had a deadlier second wave. Given that the two viruses are different, perhaps a pinch of salt is needed. Second, that we have flu seasons every year. Third, is related: it appears a solid bet that the warmer weather and sunlight will hinder how the virus transmits. It won't kill it outright (see infamous French study) but it will have an effect. So it is still around when the weather takes a turn for the worse and we all move back inside and start getting other bugs ...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    glw said:

    Bozza Johnson should take a break, seriously. He needs a rest and it’s a farce having him continue in this state. Let someone else act as caretaker and give him a month off.

    I genuinely.think he will be retired. He has got the Tories a majority, now he is just a liability.
    I can't believe that any Tory MP has watched the last couple of days and thought "he's doing a good job".
    I'd like to see Sir Graham's letter box tomorrow morning. That was fucking awful even by the awful standards of last few days.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999

    tlg86 said:

    Johnson's finished.

    Care to put a date on it? 'Cos that's bollocks.
    You're now arguing with posters that are generally supportive of the Conservatives. Going well..
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    Re the car journey why didnt he just ask for a government driver!?
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884
    edited May 2020
    In the shorter term, I agree with Anabob.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    edited May 2020

    Biggest question I have now is how the UK hangs together when in a few days England and Scotland at least are one whole step out of phase. Boris is talking about phase 2 from June 1. Sturgeon is talking about phase 1 from 28 May.

    And the gap in lockdown restriction easing is getting bigger not smaller.

    It's a political opportunity for unionism if Scotland requires furlough money for longer. Played carefully, it could even benefit the non-existent Scottish Tories, as they could be given a role in 'tense behind the scenes negotiations with the Chancellor'.
    As if anyone would believe that the SCons wouldn't fold like a house of cards in the unlikely event of HMG asking them what they thought.
    It would at least give them a line to use.

    It strikes me that Sturgeon would like to be refused additional furlough for Scotland and use it to make a point about the cruel colonial masters putting Scottish lives in danger for want of a few groats. In so doing, she risks that they cough up and use it to make the opposite point.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Just as a question: @Philip_Thompson - as the father of a young lad yourself, would you, if there was reason to suspect your eyesight might be impaired, test it by going for a 30-mile drive with your son in the car? Rather than, say, wait a few more days and check in over Zoom.

    I really wouldn’t, myself, but I’m wondering if I’m overcautious

    If I felt my vision currently impaired I wouldn't get behind the wheel.

    If I felt safe to drive but was concerned after a serious illness I'd certainly consider a short drive first before setting off on a cross country drive.
    With your kid in the car?
    I wouldn’t, not if there was any reasonable chance I might be incapable. Such as when he was too sick to continue for a while at Barnard’s Castle.
    His wife needed to be in the car - it was her who was worried about him being safe to drive. So the son had to come because he was too young to stay home alone and it would have been a breach of the rules to intermingle two households
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    OllyT said:

    Sandpit said:

    algarkirk said:

    Verdict? A farrago of confected nonsense put together only once enough time had passed to know what were the hard bits of evidence his case had to meet - hence the admission he had been to Barnard Castle.

    His description carefully included all the firm sightings, and placed them in as innocent a context as possible. It ended up all too smooth to be anything other than a post hoc rationalisation. It included as little as possible which might one day be contradicted by new evidence. So a reasonable effort except for one thing.

    The Barnard Castle thing on Easter Day had always stood out as a problem, and the failure to admit or account for it earlier suggests a hope, until yesterday (PM evaded it) or today, that it could be denied.

    His explanation was plainly fanciful. Really apart from complex and true explanations (which of the lawful sort were clearly not available) he would have done better to use 'exercise'. Actually I think he was on a trip out, unlike the millions denied a trip to church on Easter Day.

    His weakness here undermines his credibility generally. So, ultimately a fail.

    Except that he explicitly said he didn't go to the castle.

    He went with his family for a short drive, because he wasn't sure if driving would make him feel unwell, and wanted to take a short drive before undertaking a much longer drive back to work.

    They went to the outskirts of the castle town, stopped by the river briefly, then returned to their lodgings. They didn't go to the castle.

    (This is why I said initially that people's impressions of this afternoon's performance will vary hugely, depending on whether they watched it live or not).
    I don't know how you can keep your face straight repeating that story. He knew he'd been rumbled and there was proof he'd been seen in Barnard Castle and that cock-and-bull story is about the best he could come up with to try and justify it. I did watch it live by the way.
    I am just repeating what Mr Cummings actually said, because a lot of others are saying he said something different.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    I am now even angrier than when Johnson started.

    Unbelievable performance. An absolute low in this whole saga.

    Apart from anything else gave the impression that he can't be bothered answering any of this stuff anymore.

    Why should he answer this anymore? Cummings spent a very long time answering questions, people were even joking here about doing a Vinnick it went on so long. Why ask the same questions again to the PM an hour later unless it's related to the PM?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited May 2020
    If Dom had gone Saturday, Boris could have been standing there say see leadership, got to stick to the rules, all in this together and btw we are winning, deaths down, some shops to open...

    It was actually what did Cameron a lot of good.over expenses scandal, while Gordo mutter and wibbled.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102

    Genuinely one of the worst conferences he has done

    No

    Yesterday was by far the worst he has done.

    You use car crash quite liberally but yesteday was a real car crash
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    tlg86 said:

    Johnson's finished.

    Care to put a date on it? 'Cos that's bollocks.
    You're now arguing with posters that are generally supportive of the Conservatives. Going well..
    I'll happily accept your best guess too, never fear!
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    All shops can open from 15/6

    -*not in Scotland
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837

    I am now even angrier than when Johnson started.

    Unbelievable performance. An absolute low in this whole saga.

    Apart from anything else gave the impression that he can't be bothered answering any of this stuff anymore.

    I thought he was significantly better today than yesterday, but then yesterdays was the worst I have ever seen for him so a low bar.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729

    Genuinely one of the worst conferences he has done

    There is nothing genuine you ever write about the Tories/Boris. Its a given its bile ridden. You are some sort of Labour party official are you not ?
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    TGOHF666 said:
    What, the Guardian's been caught printing unadulterated bullshit? Well I never!
  • Genuinely one of the worst conferences he has done

    There is nothing genuine you ever write about the Tories/Boris. Its a given its bile ridden. You are some sort of Labour party official are you not ?
    Yes, I am in fact Keir Starmer.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,707

    Bozza Johnson should take a break, seriously. He needs a rest and it’s a farce having him continue in this state. Let someone else act as caretaker and give him a month off.

    In the middle of a crisis he'd be just holding up a big neon sign saying "I can't do this job".
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    Well, returning to work in the afternoon is the first breach of the law before we even get to the 350 mile Durham trips.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    If Dom had gone Saturday, Boris could have been standing there say see leadership, got to stick to the rules, all in this together and btw we are winning, deaths down, some shops to open...

    Agreed. Why on earth then has he not done that?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,555
    A tiny footnote from C4 News: No less a luminary than Andrew Bridgen, while given every opportunity and asked the question direct, resolutely declined to agree that he believed DC about the 12 April journey.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited May 2020
    TGOHF666 said:

    The Guardian look dumb now

    twitter.com/mrharrycole/status/1264988640494657539?s=21

    Remember their front page on Milly Dowler was incorrect too. As was 99% of Carole Conspiracy. They really aren't any better than the rest when it comes to accuracy, however much they like to think they are a bastion of virtue.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149

    Genuinely one of the worst conferences he has done

    There is nothing genuine you ever write about the Tories/Boris. Its a given its bile ridden. You are some sort of Labour party official are you not ?
    Yes, I am in fact Keir Starmer.
    I think you have better uses of your time, Sir Keir, but congratulations on showing up your predecessor in record time.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    Charles said:

    Just as a question: @Philip_Thompson - as the father of a young lad yourself, would you, if there was reason to suspect your eyesight might be impaired, test it by going for a 30-mile drive with your son in the car? Rather than, say, wait a few more days and check in over Zoom.

    I really wouldn’t, myself, but I’m wondering if I’m overcautious

    If I felt my vision currently impaired I wouldn't get behind the wheel.

    If I felt safe to drive but was concerned after a serious illness I'd certainly consider a short drive first before setting off on a cross country drive.
    With your kid in the car?
    I wouldn’t, not if there was any reasonable chance I might be incapable. Such as when he was too sick to continue for a while at Barnard’s Castle.
    His wife needed to be in the car - it was her who was worried about him being safe to drive. So the son had to come because he was too young to stay home alone and it would have been a breach of the rules to intermingle two households
    Explained very patiently Charles.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837

    So following classic Dom's sage advice today I'm going to confirm whether or not I have Parkinson's disease by attempting to use an angle grinder to cut-up a paving slab supported between two dogs. If all three of us survive I guess its a no!

    Witchcraft trials might be making a comeback too.
  • kle4 said:

    Genuinely one of the worst conferences he has done

    There is nothing genuine you ever write about the Tories/Boris. Its a given its bile ridden. You are some sort of Labour party official are you not ?
    Yes, I am in fact Keir Starmer.
    I think you have better uses of your time, Sir Keir, but congratulations on showing up your predecessor in record time.
    You cannot have a place in my cabinet.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    edited May 2020
    TGOHF666 said:
    So, the front page headline that started all of this was a made-up lie materially untrue?

    Presumably the Guardian will be apologising to Mr Cummings, and printing their correction on page 1 tomorrow?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751

    My fear (well the fear of my father and his fellow medical professionals, sorry Eadric) is that the next wave will coincide with normal flu season/Christmas.

    The government will say the elderly/vulnerable should shield, but people will ignore that and go visit elderly/vulnerable family over Christmas and they'll you have an even higher death toll than during the first wave.

    Has any other country had a “second wave”? If we don’t have a vaccine by then, we’ll have to live with the virus. We can’t go through this lockdown hell again.

    On the general point of second waves, there has been no instance of which I'm aware of there being a major second outbreak after the end of the first, and even if such a thing were to happen in this country then I don't see why the virus would unaccountably lay dormant all through the Autumn and return with a vengeance in December.

    If it's going to get bad again then one would've thought that it would start to happen following further easing of the lockdown restrictions, i.e. at some point during the Summer. Because if the shops open and that doesn't do much harm then we get at least some of the hospitality trade back in July, if that also does no harm we'll probably get the rest of it in August, if that does no harm we'll get the schoolkids back en masse in September, and if all of that doesn't cause a mass outbreak then I doubt that anything else will.

    It seems to me that the only reason to imagine that the disease will wait and wait and wait until the Winter flu season is that a worse outcome can scarcely be imagined, but that's not a logical supposition - but I'm no expert, and if there is some good scientific reason for supposing a lengthy period of dormancy until Winter, regardless of whatever else occurs in the intervening six months, then I stand to be corrected.
    Well quite. There seems to be a weird assumption that a) there will be a second wave (despite the fact that no other country has had one) and b) it will arrive at the worst possible time in the depths of winter.

    Now, both a) and b) might prove true, but what are these assumptions based on? Evidence or hyperbole?
    I was expecting(?) two spikes anyway. We should be in the middle of the second one if it was going to happen. In addition, if the relaxation announced two weeks ago had gone wrong, we should see strong evidence of it by now. I squint and I squint and I'm not sure I see owt. Next likely one in two weeks time, keep an eye out.

    *its not quite the right word, but its near enough

    The likely presence of a second wave is based on three underlying assumptions, as far as I can see. First is historical - that the last big pandemic had a deadlier second wave. Given that the two viruses are different, perhaps a pinch of salt is needed. Second, that we have flu seasons every year. Third, is related: it appears a solid bet that the warmer weather and sunlight will hinder how the virus transmits. It won't kill it outright (see infamous French study) but it will have an effect. So it is still around when the weather takes a turn for the worse and we all move back inside and start getting other bugs ...
    It's not based on any of that. It's based on the fact that probably not more than about 10% of the population has been infected, so the remainder of the population is still susceptible. If restrictions are relaxed to the extent that R > 1 then any small outbreaks will grow exponentially, just like the original infections that originated from China. Unless contact tracing can cope with it. And in this country we still have well over 100,000 active cases.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    Bozza Johnson should take a break, seriously. He needs a rest and it’s a farce having him continue in this state. Let someone else act as caretaker and give him a month off.

    In the middle of a crisis he'd be just holding up a big neon sign saying "I can't do this job".
    I don't think the neon sign is necessary tbh.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    Charles said:

    Just as a question: @Philip_Thompson - as the father of a young lad yourself, would you, if there was reason to suspect your eyesight might be impaired, test it by going for a 30-mile drive with your son in the car? Rather than, say, wait a few more days and check in over Zoom.

    I really wouldn’t, myself, but I’m wondering if I’m overcautious

    If I felt my vision currently impaired I wouldn't get behind the wheel.

    If I felt safe to drive but was concerned after a serious illness I'd certainly consider a short drive first before setting off on a cross country drive.
    With your kid in the car?
    I wouldn’t, not if there was any reasonable chance I might be incapable. Such as when he was too sick to continue for a while at Barnard’s Castle.
    His wife needed to be in the car - it was her who was worried about him being safe to drive. So the son had to come because he was too young to stay home alone and it would have been a breach of the rules to intermingle two households
    Why didnt they get a govt driver, or hire one themselves?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413
    tlg86 said:

    PSA: It’s pronounced “Bar-nud Cassle” not “Bar-nard Car-Sell”

    Was that one thing DC got right when he was speaking?
    Would be a shock if a Durham lad got it wrong.
    Bet he can do Prudhoe, Ponteland and Chester-le-street too.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    If Dom had gone Saturday, Boris could have been standing there say see leadership, got to stick to the rules, all in this together and btw we are winning, deaths down, some shops to open...

    Agreed. Why on earth then has he not done that?
    Because Cummings is a valued member of his team who acted reasonably as the Police confirmed and has been unreasonably attacked by the Guardian who've printed lies about him in a politically motivated witch-hunt?

    If you show no backbone to every witch-hunt then where does it end?
This discussion has been closed.