Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Why Dominic Cummings Should resign (from a fan)

24

Comments

  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    kle4 said:

    MrEd said:

    tlg86 said:

    Richard, you are far more forgiving than me of the midnight flit. Up and down the country, thousands of people at great personal inconvenience locked down because that was what was expected. It frankly defies credulity that they could not have got adequate help in London - this is a ultra well-connected power couple.

    But your second point is decisive. Even if you take a forgiving view of his personal decision, he has wrecked the public health message. To restore it, he has to go. As you say, lives depend on this.

    I find it hard to get angry about anyone who has broken the rules whether it be the woman in Scotland, Cummings or any of the people going to parks in London. This is mainly because lockdown has improved my quality of life and I'm genuinely not missing anything. But I know that it's been hard for others and I can understand their anger at people breaking the rules.
    I am of the same view of you as tlg on finding it hard to get angry at this. It seems like it is more because people dislike Cummings than what he did.
    That's true of many stories involving Cummings and it has led to instances where people have over egged things - the SAGE stuff springs to mind - but in this case I'd say it's a happy coincidence, and exacerbates things.

    The example of the CMO in Scotland is a good case in point because it did cause a great deal of consternation for the scottish government and personal criticism of the First Minister for not acting sooner as more details emerged, so the reaction to similar stories is clearly not solely about the person of Cummings. That he is seemingly very pleased to be a bogeyman to the media and many political figures (given how he chooses to interact with them, far from shunning the limelight) makes the scale of and intensity of the reaction at him personally being the focus here something that ultimately is his own fault.

    He likes being the story, and it gives him greater profile and influence than many in his position. This is the flip side of that.
    AIUI the CMO in Scotland broke lockdown. Cummings broke quarantine. It is a huge difference. (And yes I criticised Sturgeon for not realising the CMO had to go for weakening the lockdown message regardless of the hypocrisy).
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    IshmaelZ said:

    Modern cancel culture has nothing on the masochistic tradition in British politics of being defenestrated for a single error. Past achievements, gratitude and loyalty earned, future potential, all count for nothing because ... one strike, and you're out.

    Sod that. I don't believe that in my personal life, and I don't believe it in my politics. Cummings should stay - damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!

    Doing it, doing it again, lying about it and misleading most of the cabinet into endorsing the lie looks like quite a few strikes to me.

    The principal danger to Boris here is nothing to do with covid at all, it's that people will draw conclusions about Brexit from the fact that its chief architect turns out to be a lying little creep. Everything he has ever touched is retrospectively defiled.
    I also recall that picture of Farage and Banks fawning over Trump in the White House just after he became President. Although they appear to have gone very cool on the orange one lately I wonder if anyone now stops to think, hang on a minute, aren't these guys that were telling us how wonderful that idiot Trump is the same ones also telling us Brexit was a great idea?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    tyson said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Excellent! If Boris wins this, there's some chance he'll break the power of the hostile media once and for all.
    Are you a Russian Bot?
    .
    No, that's me.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    IshmaelZ said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Excellent! If Boris wins this, there's some chance he'll break the power of the hostile media once and for all.
    What gets broken if Boris loses, then? And isn't there something a teensy bit totalitarian about political leaders breaking the power of the press?
    I rather think there's something more undemocratic about unelected 'journalists' presuming to dictate whom the elected PM should or should not have as his adviser.
  • MonkeysMonkeys Posts: 757
    Given that the Guardian ran for about five days on the non-story of Cummings attending SAGE meetings that he was allowed to attend under SAGE guidance, and the Guardian mysteriously then dropped the non-story when it was leaked he'd been asking why we weren't going into Lockdown sooner, I find it unsurprising and rather boring that they're going on another attack. I expect he might quit though. He's annoyed everyone at this point. What's left?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    edited May 2020
    There is going to be days and days of this. Why don't No 10 see this? The only answer can be that the whole operation is utterly dominated by Cummings.

    https://twitter.com/GlasgowPam/status/1264274203718623238
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    tyson said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Excellent! If Boris wins this, there's some chance he'll break the power of the hostile media once and for all.

    Are you a Russian Bot?
    I'm glad I do not put my bank details on the site...
    No, I'm the Albanian taxi driver, get it right.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    kle4 said:

    MrEd said:

    tlg86 said:

    Richard, you are far more forgiving than me of the midnight flit. Up and down the country, thousands of people at great personal inconvenience locked down because that was what was expected. It frankly defies credulity that they could not have got adequate help in London - this is a ultra well-connected power couple.

    But your second point is decisive. Even if you take a forgiving view of his personal decision, he has wrecked the public health message. To restore it, he has to go. As you say, lives depend on this.

    I find it hard to get angry about anyone who has broken the rules whether it be the woman in Scotland, Cummings or any of the people going to parks in London. This is mainly because lockdown has improved my quality of life and I'm genuinely not missing anything. But I know that it's been hard for others and I can understand their anger at people breaking the rules.
    I am of the same view of you as tlg on finding it hard to get angry at this. It seems like it is more because people dislike Cummings than what he did.
    That's true of many stories involving Cummings and it has led to instances where people have over egged things - the SAGE stuff springs to mind - but in this case I'd say it's a happy coincidence, and exacerbates things.

    The example of the CMO in Scotland is a good case in point because it did cause a great deal of consternation for the scottish government and personal criticism of the First Minister for not acting sooner as more details emerged, so the reaction to similar stories is clearly not solely about the person of Cummings. That he is seemingly very pleased to be a bogeyman to the media and many political figures (given how he chooses to interact with them, far from shunning the limelight) makes the scale of and intensity of the reaction at him personally being the focus here something that ultimately is his own fault.

    He likes being the story, and it gives him greater profile and influence than many in his position. This is the flip side of that.
    AIUI the CMO in Scotland broke lockdown. Cummings broke quarantine. It is a huge difference. (And yes I criticised Sturgeon for not realising the CMO had to go for weakening the lockdown message regardless of the hypocrisy).
    Excuse me? How did Cummings not break lockdown?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    IshmaelZ said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Excellent! If Boris wins this, there's some chance he'll break the power of the hostile media once and for all.
    What gets broken if Boris loses, then? And isn't there something a teensy bit totalitarian about political leaders breaking the power of the press?
    I rather think there's something more undemocratic about unelected 'journalists' presuming to dictate whom the elected PM should or should not have as his adviser.
    They are not “dictating” anything. They are, at least this time, reporting the trips Cummings took. They provide the information upon which the electorate make decisions. If you think that all such information should come from the Government then good luck to you.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    There is going to be days and days of this. Why don't No 10 see this? The only answer can be that the whole operation is utterly dominated by Cummings.

    https://twitter.com/GlasgowPam/status/1264274203718623238

    Whilst I agree that Johnson and the rest of them are messing this up quite spectacularly, I would take these comments with a pinch of salt. Most of the anger is coming from people who don't like the government anyway.

    This could be Black Saturday, but I think it's a bit too early to judge.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited May 2020

    There is going to be days and days of this. Why don't No 10 see this? The only answer can be that the whole operation is utterly dominated by Cummings.

    https://twitter.com/GlasgowPam/status/1264274203718623238

    Days and days of a 'Proud socialist & Labour member' moaning on Twitter? How on earth will that be different from any other days?
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    kle4 said:

    tyson said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Excellent! If Boris wins this, there's some chance he'll break the power of the hostile media once and for all.
    Are you a Russian Bot?
    .
    No, that's me.
    You are Spaяticus?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    edited May 2020

    kle4 said:

    MrEd said:

    tlg86 said:

    Richard, you are far more forgiving than me of the midnight flit. Up and down the country, thousands of people at great personal inconvenience locked down because that was what was expected. It frankly defies credulity that they could not have got adequate help in London - this is a ultra well-connected power couple.

    But your second point is decisive. Even if you take a forgiving view of his personal decision, he has wrecked the public health message. To restore it, he has to go. As you say, lives depend on this.

    I find it hard to get angry about anyone who has broken the rules whether it be the woman in Scotland, Cummings or any of the people going to parks in London. This is mainly because lockdown has improved my quality of life and I'm genuinely not missing anything. But I know that it's been hard for others and I can understand their anger at people breaking the rules.
    I am of the same view of you as tlg on finding it hard to get angry at this. It seems like it is more because people dislike Cummings than what he did.
    That's true of many stories involving Cummings and it has led to instances where people have over egged things - the SAGE stuff springs to mind - but in this case I'd say it's a happy coincidence, and exacerbates things.

    The example of the CMO in Scotland is a good case in point because it did cause a great deal of consternation for the scottish government and personal criticism of the First Minister for not acting sooner as more details emerged, so the reaction to similar stories is clearly not solely about the person of Cummings. That he is seemingly very pleased to be a bogeyman to the media and many political figures (given how he chooses to interact with them, far from shunning the limelight) makes the scale of and intensity of the reaction at him personally being the focus here something that ultimately is his own fault.

    He likes being the story, and it gives him greater profile and influence than many in his position. This is the flip side of that.
    AIUI the CMO in Scotland broke lockdown. Cummings broke quarantine. It is a huge difference. (And yes I criticised Sturgeon for not realising the CMO had to go for weakening the lockdown message regardless of the hypocrisy).
    I said similar stories, not identical. The response to any transgression, to the extent there was one, may therefore necessarily be different as well. But I don't think an initial at first glance take on the story being that he seems to have acted poorly was unreasonable, even if the level of furore and animus is elevated because of who he is. He is able, and Boris choosing to, defend himself, and set out the differences or point out how that initial take on events was wrong. Now that won't sway his opponents, opposition, media or Tory, but it would save his position.

    Nevertheless, he gave fodder to the press for the story through his choices, and his personal style and approach have fed the reaction. He can have no complaints about that. You don't act like Cummings reportedly does without inviting such reactions. If he can fight beyond it he can consider that a victory well earned.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751

    Yes, that was definitely the advice at the time.

    I remember it clear as day. Sombre government ministers saying, "Do not leave home to visit your lover. Everything else is fine, though. Pop up to Durham as much as you like - it's nice at this time of year."
    And also "Why not go on an outing this Easter weekend?"
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    IshmaelZ said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Excellent! If Boris wins this, there's some chance he'll break the power of the hostile media once and for all.
    What gets broken if Boris loses, then? And isn't there something a teensy bit totalitarian about political leaders breaking the power of the press?
    I rather think there's something more undemocratic about unelected 'journalists' presuming to dictate whom the elected PM should or should not have as his adviser.
    Your not elected yet you presume to “dictate” what you think the Government should do. Shame!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1264287729375948800

    Christ. Why do they think they can actually get away with this stuff?
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    tyson said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Excellent! If Boris wins this, there's some chance he'll break the power of the hostile media once and for all.

    Are you a Russian Bot?
    I'm glad I do not put my bank details on the site...
    No, I'm the Albanian taxi driver, get it right.
    Have you had that SeanT in the back of your cab once?
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908

    There is going to be days and days of this. Why don't No 10 see this? The only answer can be that the whole operation is utterly dominated by Cummings.

    Funerals, weddings, christenings, retirements, people ill in hospital, people ill at home, birthdays, anniversaries, and more. Millions of people have made sacrifices big and small. That's the merely making people angry, with the hypocrisy and deceit. On top of that there's the perhaps more important issue of undermining support for the lockdown, and perhaps future lockdowns. That could prove deadly.

  • That MoS headline has got to be one of the worst I've seen in a while
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    There is going to be days and days of this. Why don't No 10 see this? The only answer can be that the whole operation is utterly dominated by Cummings.

    https://twitter.com/GlasgowPam/status/1264274203718623238

    Days and days of a 'Proud socialist & Labour member' moaning on Twitter? How on earth will that be different from any other days?
    What’s different, Mr Blue, is that these Tweets are also coming from Brexiteer, right wing, radio hosts -

    https://twitter.com/JuliaHB1/status/1263939337030438917
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited May 2020

    tyson said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Excellent! If Boris wins this, there's some chance he'll break the power of the hostile media once and for all.

    Are you a Russian Bot?
    I'm glad I do not put my bank details on the site...
    No, I'm the Albanian taxi driver, get it right.
    Have you had that SeanT in the back of your cab once?
    Yeah, he's really an unbelievable conversationalist. I could barely keep up with him - it was like talking to three or four people at once!
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837

    kle4 said:

    MrEd said:

    tlg86 said:

    Richard, you are far more forgiving than me of the midnight flit. Up and down the country, thousands of people at great personal inconvenience locked down because that was what was expected. It frankly defies credulity that they could not have got adequate help in London - this is a ultra well-connected power couple.

    But your second point is decisive. Even if you take a forgiving view of his personal decision, he has wrecked the public health message. To restore it, he has to go. As you say, lives depend on this.

    I find it hard to get angry about anyone who has broken the rules whether it be the woman in Scotland, Cummings or any of the people going to parks in London. This is mainly because lockdown has improved my quality of life and I'm genuinely not missing anything. But I know that it's been hard for others and I can understand their anger at people breaking the rules.
    I am of the same view of you as tlg on finding it hard to get angry at this. It seems like it is more because people dislike Cummings than what he did.
    That's true of many stories involving Cummings and it has led to instances where people have over egged things - the SAGE stuff springs to mind - but in this case I'd say it's a happy coincidence, and exacerbates things.

    The example of the CMO in Scotland is a good case in point because it did cause a great deal of consternation for the scottish government and personal criticism of the First Minister for not acting sooner as more details emerged, so the reaction to similar stories is clearly not solely about the person of Cummings. That he is seemingly very pleased to be a bogeyman to the media and many political figures (given how he chooses to interact with them, far from shunning the limelight) makes the scale of and intensity of the reaction at him personally being the focus here something that ultimately is his own fault.

    He likes being the story, and it gives him greater profile and influence than many in his position. This is the flip side of that.
    AIUI the CMO in Scotland broke lockdown. Cummings broke quarantine. It is a huge difference. (And yes I criticised Sturgeon for not realising the CMO had to go for weakening the lockdown message regardless of the hypocrisy).
    Excuse me? How did Cummings not break lockdown?
    The Scottish CMO didnt have symptoms so was very unlikely to be putting others in danger (perhaps 0.1-0.2% of the population are unsymptomatic covid spreaders)

    Cummings and/or his family had symptoms so were far more likely to be spreading the virus (back of the envelope estimate 10-50x more likely)

    It is an order of magnitude bigger offence to break quarantine than to break lockdown.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,680
    I still don't understand what he was playing at. If the idea was to get relatives in Durham to look after his kids why not just hire a car and driver and send them up there. Surely he could afford it. I'm sure even the state could have arranged something.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    I'm signed in!

    I think legally Cummings' travel passes a reasonable cause test. However, it is very much against the grain of how the government has communicated what people should do and thereby lies the trouble. People will have avoided doing very much the same as this.

    If they properly ruled out all London options, took sandwiches and thought out their break strategy (pee on the Moors, adult nappies, whatever!) I might be OK with it.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    kle4 said:

    Help me please. At this stage of the crisis, is the correct adjective “embattled” or “beleaguered “?

    Depends who it is applied to - Boris or Cummings?
    Cummings is embattled and Boris is beleaguered
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    I've just thought what this reminds me of. It's the death of Princess Diana, except this time it's the PM that needs to be told by the Queen to get his house in order.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    I didn't think the Scottish CMO should lose her job, and don't think Cummings should either. If Sturgeon and Boris think they are an asset they should overlook their errors of judgement. They only did what governments thought people would do anyway, not as if they were hosting big indoor superspreading parties

    And I have to say I love Cummings 'fuck em' attitude. Boris has an 80 seat majority and 4 years before the next GE, let the media do their worst.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    kle4 said:

    MrEd said:

    tlg86 said:

    Richard, you are far more forgiving than me of the midnight flit. Up and down the country, thousands of people at great personal inconvenience locked down because that was what was expected. It frankly defies credulity that they could not have got adequate help in London - this is a ultra well-connected power couple.

    But your second point is decisive. Even if you take a forgiving view of his personal decision, he has wrecked the public health message. To restore it, he has to go. As you say, lives depend on this.

    I find it hard to get angry about anyone who has broken the rules whether it be the woman in Scotland, Cummings or any of the people going to parks in London. This is mainly because lockdown has improved my quality of life and I'm genuinely not missing anything. But I know that it's been hard for others and I can understand their anger at people breaking the rules.
    I am of the same view of you as tlg on finding it hard to get angry at this. It seems like it is more because people dislike Cummings than what he did.
    That's true of many stories involving Cummings and it has led to instances where people have over egged things - the SAGE stuff springs to mind - but in this case I'd say it's a happy coincidence, and exacerbates things.

    The example of the CMO in Scotland is a good case in point because it did cause a great deal of consternation for the scottish government and personal criticism of the First Minister for not acting sooner as more details emerged, so the reaction to similar stories is clearly not solely about the person of Cummings. That he is seemingly very pleased to be a bogeyman to the media and many political figures (given how he chooses to interact with them, far from shunning the limelight) makes the scale of and intensity of the reaction at him personally being the focus here something that ultimately is his own fault.

    He likes being the story, and it gives him greater profile and influence than many in his position. This is the flip side of that.
    AIUI the CMO in Scotland broke lockdown. Cummings broke quarantine. It is a huge difference. (And yes I criticised Sturgeon for not realising the CMO had to go for weakening the lockdown message regardless of the hypocrisy).
    Excuse me? How did Cummings not break lockdown?
    The Scottish CMO didnt have symptoms so was very unlikely to be putting others in danger (perhaps 0.1-0.2% of the population are unsymptomatic covid spreaders)

    Cummings and/or his family had symptoms so were far more likely to be spreading the virus (back of the envelope estimate 10-50x more likely)

    It is an order of magnitude bigger offence to break quarantine than to break lockdown.
    Ah yes I see what you mean. Cummings was breaking the lockdown and quarantine.

    I suspect he'll be gone by Tuesday.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    IshmaelZ said:

    What gets broken if Boris loses, then? And isn't there something a teensy bit totalitarian about political leaders breaking the power of the press?

    You mean the underlying assumption that The Press should never question the Executive and should certainly never publish anything negative about the Govt?

    Like China?

    :D:D

    Can you imagine the squeals of right-wing anguish if that same policy was applied to a Labour govt?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    There is going to be days and days of this. Why don't No 10 see this? The only answer can be that the whole operation is utterly dominated by Cummings.

    https://twitter.com/GlasgowPam/status/1264274203718623238

    Days and days of a 'Proud socialist & Labour member' moaning on Twitter? How on earth will that be different from any other days?
    Looks like lots of non Socialists are moaning too.

    I personally hope he stays #1rule4them very powerful.

    If I were a PB Tory I would want him gone and forgotten ASAP.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    isam said:

    I didn't think the Scottish CMO should lose her job, and don't think Cummings should either. If Sturgeon and Boris think they are an asset they should overlook their errors of judgement. They only did what governments thought people would do anyway, not as if they were hosting big indoor superspreading parties

    And I have to say I love Cummings 'fuck em' attitude. Boris has an 80 seat majority and 4 years before the next GE, let the media do their worst.

    +1 :smile:

    Quite right too. Fuck 'em.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,878

    IshmaelZ said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Excellent! If Boris wins this, there's some chance he'll break the power of the hostile media once and for all.
    What gets broken if Boris loses, then? And isn't there something a teensy bit totalitarian about political leaders breaking the power of the press?
    I rather think there's something more undemocratic about unelected 'journalists' presuming to dictate whom the elected PM should or should not have as his adviser.
    Um, Cummings is unelected! :lol:
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    DougSeal said:

    There is going to be days and days of this. Why don't No 10 see this? The only answer can be that the whole operation is utterly dominated by Cummings.

    https://twitter.com/GlasgowPam/status/1264274203718623238

    Days and days of a 'Proud socialist & Labour member' moaning on Twitter? How on earth will that be different from any other days?
    What’s different, Mr Blue, is that these Tweets are also coming from Brexiteer, right wing, radio hosts -

    https://twitter.com/JuliaHB1/status/1263939337030438917
    Another bloody Socialist banging on.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    glw said:

    There is going to be days and days of this. Why don't No 10 see this? The only answer can be that the whole operation is utterly dominated by Cummings.

    Funerals, weddings, christenings, retirements, people ill in hospital, people ill at home, birthdays, anniversaries, and more. Millions of people have made sacrifices big and small. That's the merely making people angry, with the hypocrisy and deceit. On top of that there's the perhaps more important issue of undermining support for the lockdown, and perhaps future lockdowns. That could prove deadly.

    Surely most are relieved not to have attend christenings?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Excellent! If Boris wins this, there's some chance he'll break the power of the hostile media once and for all.
    What gets broken if Boris loses, then? And isn't there something a teensy bit totalitarian about political leaders breaking the power of the press?
    I rather think there's something more undemocratic about unelected 'journalists' presuming to dictate whom the elected PM should or should not have as his adviser.
    That is something you are clearly wrong about, then. That is what a free press is meant to do.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    Pro_Rata said:

    I'm signed in!

    I think legally Cummings' travel passes a reasonable cause test. However, it is very much against the grain of how the government has communicated what people should do and thereby lies the trouble. People will have avoided doing very much the same as this.

    If they properly ruled out all London options, took sandwiches and thought out their break strategy (pee on the Moors, adult nappies, whatever!) I might be OK with it.

    Both trips? Plus the day out in Bernard Castle?
  • isam said:

    I didn't think the Scottish CMO should lose her job, and don't think Cummings should either. If Sturgeon and Boris think they are an asset they should overlook their errors of judgement. They only did what governments thought people would do anyway, not as if they were hosting big indoor superspreading parties

    And I have to say I love Cummings 'fuck em' attitude. Boris has an 80 seat majority and 4 years before the next GE, let the media do their worst.

    Spending the credit of an 80 seat majority and strong approval ratings on enacting a bold but controversial agenda? Fair enough.

    Spaffing it all away on day trips to Barnard Castle for your SPAD? Not so much.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    kle4 said:

    MrEd said:

    tlg86 said:

    Richard, you are far more forgiving than me of the midnight flit. Up and down the country, thousands of people at great personal inconvenience locked down because that was what was expected. It frankly defies credulity that they could not have got adequate help in London - this is a ultra well-connected power couple.

    But your second point is decisive. Even if you take a forgiving view of his personal decision, he has wrecked the public health message. To restore it, he has to go. As you say, lives depend on this.

    I find it hard to get angry about anyone who has broken the rules whether it be the woman in Scotland, Cummings or any of the people going to parks in London. This is mainly because lockdown has improved my quality of life and I'm genuinely not missing anything. But I know that it's been hard for others and I can understand their anger at people breaking the rules.
    I am of the same view of you as tlg on finding it hard to get angry at this. It seems like it is more because people dislike Cummings than what he did.
    That's true of many stories involving Cummings and it has led to instances where people have over egged things - the SAGE stuff springs to mind - but in this case I'd say it's a happy coincidence, and exacerbates things.

    The example of the CMO in Scotland is a good case in point because it did cause a great deal of consternation for the scottish government and personal criticism of the First Minister for not acting sooner as more details emerged, so the reaction to similar stories is clearly not solely about the person of Cummings. That he is seemingly very pleased to be a bogeyman to the media and many political figures (given how he chooses to interact with them, far from shunning the limelight) makes the scale of and intensity of the reaction at him personally being the focus here something that ultimately is his own fault.

    He likes being the story, and it gives him greater profile and influence than many in his position. This is the flip side of that.
    AIUI the CMO in Scotland broke lockdown. Cummings broke quarantine. It is a huge difference. (And yes I criticised Sturgeon for not realising the CMO had to go for weakening the lockdown message regardless of the hypocrisy).
    Excuse me? How did Cummings not break lockdown?
    The Scottish CMO didnt have symptoms so was very unlikely to be putting others in danger (perhaps 0.1-0.2% of the population are unsymptomatic covid spreaders)

    Cummings and/or his family had symptoms so were far more likely to be spreading the virus (back of the envelope estimate 10-50x more likely)

    It is an order of magnitude bigger offence to break quarantine than to break lockdown.
    Ah yes I see what you mean. Cummings was breaking the lockdown and quarantine.

    I suspect he'll be gone by Tuesday.
    As long as you mean a week next Tuesday I'm okay with that.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    This whole episode will leave a big stain on the government.


    A Cumstain, naturally.


    He goes tomorrow, surely?

    Night all.

    P.S. I can give some top tips for anyone thinking of visiting County Durham.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837

    There is going to be days and days of this. Why don't No 10 see this? The only answer can be that the whole operation is utterly dominated by Cummings.

    https://twitter.com/GlasgowPam/status/1264274203718623238

    Days and days of a 'Proud socialist & Labour member' moaning on Twitter? How on earth will that be different from any other days?
    Looks like lots of non Socialists are moaning too.

    I personally hope he stays #1rule4them very powerful.

    If I were a PB Tory I would want him gone and forgotten ASAP.
    It will be hard for him or the govt to be raging against the elite from now on, thats for the sure.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288

    Pro_Rata said:

    I'm signed in!

    I think legally Cummings' travel passes a reasonable cause test. However, it is very much against the grain of how the government has communicated what people should do and thereby lies the trouble. People will have avoided doing very much the same as this.

    If they properly ruled out all London options, took sandwiches and thought out their break strategy (pee on the Moors, adult nappies, whatever!) I might be OK with it.

    Both trips? Plus the day out in Bernard Castle?
    If it is proven the story has moved on, that's very different.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149

    This whole episode will leave a big stain on the government.

    A Cumstain, naturally.

    Truly this scandal just keeps giving and giving. I hope it never ends, it's made me smile like few stories in a long time.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837

    isam said:

    I didn't think the Scottish CMO should lose her job, and don't think Cummings should either. If Sturgeon and Boris think they are an asset they should overlook their errors of judgement. They only did what governments thought people would do anyway, not as if they were hosting big indoor superspreading parties

    And I have to say I love Cummings 'fuck em' attitude. Boris has an 80 seat majority and 4 years before the next GE, let the media do their worst.

    Spending the credit of an 80 seat majority and strong approval ratings on enacting a bold but controversial agenda? Fair enough.

    Spaffing it all away on day trips to Barnard Castle for your SPAD? Not so much.
    Even those who dont think he has done much wrong, dont you think its a bit weird he does a 700 mile round trip every weekend? Shouldnt he be working 6 day weeks and resting the seventh?

    Maybe testing and PPE would have been better handled?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766

    This whole episode will leave a big stain on the government.


    A Cumstain, naturally.


    He goes tomorrow, surely?

    Night all.

    P.S. I can give some top tips for anyone thinking of visiting County Durham.

    I think he staggers on until Monday.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    fox327 said:

    This whole episode is getting sickening to watch, but it has come at a convenient time yes?

    People want to visit their mam, not go back to work !
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    edited May 2020
    I visited Barnard Castle in April 2017. Whilst I was there I looked at Political Betting to see that Theresa May was going to make an announcement in Downing Street. I think @Pulpstar doubled down against an election (which was confirmed whilst I was at High Force Waterfall).
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    isam said:

    I didn't think the Scottish CMO should lose her job, and don't think Cummings should either. If Sturgeon and Boris think they are an asset they should overlook their errors of judgement. They only did what governments thought people would do anyway, not as if they were hosting big indoor superspreading parties

    And I have to say I love Cummings 'fuck em' attitude. Boris has an 80 seat majority and 4 years before the next GE, let the media do their worst.

    +1 :smile:

    Quite right too. Fuck 'em.
    https://twitter.com/sfbook/status/1264315332644278272
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    DougSeal said:
    Yeah but Phil your only a peasant.

    #1ruleforthem
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,240

    This whole episode will leave a big stain on the government.


    A Cumstain, naturally.


    He goes tomorrow, surely?

    Night all.

    P.S. I can give some top tips for anyone thinking of visiting County Durham.

    I think he staggers on until Monday.
    I wonder which Poor Bugger will get lumbered with tomorrow's press briefing?
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    tlg86 said:

    I visited Barnard Castle in April 2016. Whilst I was there I looked at Political Betting to see that Theresa May was going to make an announcement in Downing Street. I think @Pulpstar doubled down against an election (which was confirmed whilst I was at High Force Waterfall).

    No election was announced in April 2016 - nor was Theresa May PM!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    This is turning into Cummings vs the Fourth Estate.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    If Cummings was looking after an infant full time he wouldn’t have been able to do any government work. He made a pragmatic decision that was arguably essential
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999

    Help me please. At this stage of the crisis, is the correct adjective “embattled” or “beleaguered “?

    I think we're a bawhair away From Defcon Downfall Parody.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    justin124 said:

    tlg86 said:

    I visited Barnard Castle in April 2016. Whilst I was there I looked at Political Betting to see that Theresa May was going to make an announcement in Downing Street. I think @Pulpstar doubled down against an election (which was confirmed whilst I was at High Force Waterfall).

    No election was announced in April 2016 - nor was Theresa May PM!
    Alright! Edited.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Mike said: "Richard has been a longstanding PBer"

    Has he left?

    Or did he resign? ;)

    Yes. As did Charlie Faulkner
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    This whole episode will leave a big stain on the government.


    A Cumstain, naturally.


    He goes tomorrow, surely?

    Night all.

    P.S. I can give some top tips for anyone thinking of visiting County Durham.

    I think he staggers on until Monday.
    I wonder which Poor Bugger will get lumbered with tomorrow's press briefing?
    Couldn't they send Cummings or is he on lockdown?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    edited May 2020
    Charles said:

    If Cummings was looking after an infant full time he wouldn’t have been able to do any government work. He made a pragmatic decision that was arguably essential

    If the situation is arguable that means it legitimate for media, opposition and anyone else to argue it was not. Which makes the 'we're not going to argue the position anymore, you guys are mean' approach a pretty big admission of weakness. 'Screw you guys, I'm going home' only works as a strategem for Eric Cartman.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    Charles said:

    If Cummings was looking after an infant full time he wouldn’t have been able to do any government work. He made a pragmatic decision that was arguably essential

    How does a 700 mile round road trip every weekend stack up with that?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,434
    I really don't but the "he did what was best for his family, you would have done the same" defence.

    For one thing, I've been in the situation where both parents are ill, and I called my mother for help who travelled to us to collect our daughter. That would have been by far the safest course of action all round if taking the excuse at face value.

    What I think is that Cummings did what was most convenient and easy for himself, confident that the rules didn't apply to him.

    It reminds me of @rcs1000 recent post about hyperinflation, in that it presents an attitude of doing what is easy in the short term and hang the consequences.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Charles said:

    If Cummings was looking after an infant full time he wouldn’t have been able to do any government work. He made a pragmatic decision that was arguably essential

    Come on @Charles the child care excuse is just that. He just wanted a jolly up in County Durham with his wife.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,317
    This is not about protecting Cummings is my guess. It’s about protecting Boris.

    What did Boris know about the trip up to the NE with sick wife and child and when did he know it?

    My guess is that Boris either knew, approved or turned a blind eye to the 1st NE visit.

    Did he know about all the other trips, though?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Cyclefree said:

    This is not about protecting Cummings is my guess. It’s about protecting Boris.

    What did Boris know about the trip up to the NE with sick wife and child and when did he know it?

    My guess is that Boris either knew, approved or turned a blind eye to the 1st NE visit.

    Did he know about all the other trips, though?

    Any views on the snitches?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    This whole episode will leave a big stain on the government.


    A Cumstain, naturally.


    He goes tomorrow, surely?

    Night all.

    P.S. I can give some top tips for anyone thinking of visiting County Durham.

    I think he staggers on until Monday.
    I wonder which Poor Bugger will get lumbered with tomorrow's press briefing?
    I do hope it's Priti.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    I wonder if Morgan sees himself as a potential future PM?
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    isam said:

    I didn't think the Scottish CMO should lose her job, and don't think Cummings should either. If Sturgeon and Boris think they are an asset they should overlook their errors of judgement. They only did what governments thought people would do anyway, not as if they were hosting big indoor superspreading parties

    And I have to say I love Cummings 'fuck em' attitude. Boris has an 80 seat majority and 4 years before the next GE, let the media do their worst.

    I think it comes across as extremely arrogant, in a "rules don't apply to people like me" sort of way.

    Labour, and Starmer in particular, are creeping back into the game. A long way to go yet but this sort of thing is a gift to them
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,798
    I'm hoping he hangs around a little longer, to inflict maximum damage on this sorry excuse for a government, but I doubt he will survive the long weekend.
    Excellent header BTW. It's hard to admit when your "side", and someone you admire for their political skills and previous electoral success, have fucked up royally. But it's important to be honest, and not just a partisan hack, so well done.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,620
    Pulpstar said:

    fox327 said:

    This whole episode is getting sickening to watch, but it has come at a convenient time yes?

    People want to visit their mam, not go back to work !
    They're already doing the first.

    But keeping quiet about it because they don't want to do the second.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    This whole episode will leave a big stain on the government.


    A Cumstain, naturally.


    He goes tomorrow, surely?

    Night all.

    P.S. I can give some top tips for anyone thinking of visiting County Durham.

    Not after that defence, No 10 just triple dog dared the media.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    Charles said:

    If Cummings was looking after an infant full time he wouldn’t have been able to do any government work. He made a pragmatic decision that was arguably essential

    Well quite. The lockdown and quarantine rules are only meant for the hoi polloi, not for important people.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Charles said:

    If Cummings was looking after an infant full time he wouldn’t have been able to do any government work. He made a pragmatic decision that was arguably essential

    To visit Barnard Castle
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    I'm hoping he hangs around a little longer, to inflict maximum damage on this sorry excuse for a government, but I doubt he will survive the long weekend.
    Excellent header BTW. It's hard to admit when your "side", and someone you admire for their political skills and previous electoral success, have fucked up royally. But it's important to be honest, and not just a partisan hack, so well done.

    I don’t think he, or BoJo, realises the traction this is getting. He’ll stay and this episode will define him.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,708

    I wonder if Morgan sees himself as a potential future PM?
    The Donald Trump of the UK? :open_mouth:
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Charles said:

    If Cummings was looking after an infant full time he wouldn’t have been able to do any government work. He made a pragmatic decision that was arguably essential

    You are approx 12 hours late with this talking point. You may have a lot of catching up to do.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    Charles said:

    If Cummings was looking after an infant full time he wouldn’t have been able to do any government work. He made a pragmatic decision that was arguably essential

    Well quite. The lockdown and quarantine rules are only meant for the hoi polloi, not for important people.
    Only hoi polloi say 'the hoi polloi'...
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837

    Charles said:

    If Cummings was looking after an infant full time he wouldn’t have been able to do any government work. He made a pragmatic decision that was arguably essential

    Well quite. The lockdown and quarantine rules are only meant for the hoi polloi, not for important people.
    If they had said special arrangements were being made at the time to allow him to continue to work, there would probably have been a twitterati outrage but most people wouldnt have cared and there would no story now.

    Its just a whole web of lies anyway. One minute he is bed ridden for ten days. The next he is driving 350 miles without stopping. The next he is arranging childcare to work, but no-one has contact with the child. Bonkers.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951
    isam said:
    "What do you do with a disease that only kills really old and ill people? Keep it out of hospitals and care homes. We have all been imprisoned for no reason at all".

    What I've been saying on here for a while now and getting slated for it. But common sense is too much for the pearl clutchers who want to keep us under house arrest forever, bugger the economy or our freedoms or people's jobs.

  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    This is turning into Cummings vs the Fourth Estate.

    Cummings seems to be confused about Brexit (where the majority of the press was in his side), the last election (where the majority of media was on his side) and this situation. He seems to think they are all the same.
  • tlg86 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This is not about protecting Cummings is my guess. It’s about protecting Boris.

    What did Boris know about the trip up to the NE with sick wife and child and when did he know it?

    My guess is that Boris either knew, approved or turned a blind eye to the 1st NE visit.

    Did he know about all the other trips, though?

    Any views on the snitches?
    Well done to them for staying alert.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837

    I wonder if Morgan sees himself as a potential future PM?
    The Donald Trump of the UK? :open_mouth:
    Closer to home, maybe a former press editior and TV personality with strong opinions on the issues of the day.....
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    tlg86 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This is not about protecting Cummings is my guess. It’s about protecting Boris.

    What did Boris know about the trip up to the NE with sick wife and child and when did he know it?

    My guess is that Boris either knew, approved or turned a blind eye to the 1st NE visit.

    Did he know about all the other trips, though?

    Any views on the snitches?
    Well done to them for staying alert.
    My question was specifically for @Cyclefree who has been vocal on here about her opposition to that sort of behaviour.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    OllyT said:

    isam said:

    I didn't think the Scottish CMO should lose her job, and don't think Cummings should either. If Sturgeon and Boris think they are an asset they should overlook their errors of judgement. They only did what governments thought people would do anyway, not as if they were hosting big indoor superspreading parties

    And I have to say I love Cummings 'fuck em' attitude. Boris has an 80 seat majority and 4 years before the next GE, let the media do their worst.

    I think it comes across as extremely arrogant, in a "rules don't apply to people like me" sort of way.

    Labour, and Starmer in particular, are creeping back into the game. A long way to go yet but this sort of thing is a gift to them
    Yeah have to think the polls will move towards them a lot now.
  • I demand Cummings stays. Cause maximum damage.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    isam said:
    If its a nosocomial disease that means the drive to stop people going to hospital for non life threatening conditions was exactly the right thing to do.

    It also goes completely against the evidence from all over the world of outbreak hotspots with traceable mass infection events outside of hospital.

    ..

    Finally of course the majority of ICU cases come from inside the hospital. People don't tend to turn up in hospital and go straight to ICU, especially with a progressive pulmonary condition.


    So, in short, my view is that it is line pushing nonsense.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    edited May 2020
    Alistair said:

    This is turning into Cummings vs the Fourth Estate.

    Cummings seems to be confused about Brexit (where the majority of the press was in his side), the last election (where the majority of media was on his side) and this situation. He seems to think they are all the same.
    He thinks they aren't remotely relevant. I assume because he thinks social media is everything these days.

    He fails to notice that vast amounts of social media comments and points and finger waving comes off the back of actual reported news items.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    Charles said:

    If Cummings was looking after an infant full time he wouldn’t have been able to do any government work. He made a pragmatic decision that was arguably essential

    Well quite. The lockdown and quarantine rules are only meant for the hoi polloi, not for important people.
    Only hoi polloi say 'the hoi polloi'...
    I'm proud to be a member of 'the hoi polloi'! :smile:
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,680

    Charles said:

    If Cummings was looking after an infant full time he wouldn’t have been able to do any government work. He made a pragmatic decision that was arguably essential

    Well quite. The lockdown and quarantine rules are only meant for the hoi polloi, not for important people.
    Only hoi polloi say 'the hoi polloi'...
    We all know 'hoi' is the Greek definite article in the nominative plural case. You're not impressing anyone round here, old chap.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    Charles said:

    If Cummings was looking after an infant full time he wouldn’t have been able to do any government work. He made a pragmatic decision that was arguably essential

    Well quite. The lockdown and quarantine rules are only meant for the hoi polloi, not for important people.
    Only hoi polloi say 'the hoi polloi'...
    I'm proud to be a member of 'the hoi polloi'! :smile:
    I thought you might say that :smile:
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,861
    Excellent article Richard. Thanks.

    It's Cumming's home,
    It's Cumming's home,
    It's Cumming's.
    Durham's Cumming's home.

    Everyone seems to know the score
    They've seen it all before
    They just know
    They're so sure

    It's Cumming's home,
    It's Cumming's home,
    It's Cumming's.
    Durham's Cumming's home.

    So many jokes, so many sneers
    Wear you down
    Through the years

    It's Cumming's home,
    It's Cumming's home,
    It's Cumming's.
    Durham's Cumming's home.
This discussion has been closed.