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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Survation poll of NON-VOTERS shows that LAB is losing most

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    antifrank said:

    antifrank said:

    @Stuart_Dickson Two uses of "Con-Dem" in the header and sub-header are pretty clear tells that the piece might not be written from a completely disinterested perspective.

    So, in your opinion, Carmichael's performance yesterday was a masterclass?

    One does not need to be disinterested to recognise a turkey when you see one.
    You're not slow in dismissing hostile press reports about the performance of SNP notables when it suits you.
    The point is that the Record is broadly pro Union. When we have a staunchly pro SNP & independence media outlet criticising both, I suppose a measurement of Nat dismissiveness can then be made.
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    john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @Tim

    And Labour have the worst record ever for social house building, mass immigration combined with a 50% drop in social house building.

    Labour & housing just a sick joke.


    'The Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG) publishes figures on house building dating from the 1940s up to 2008.

    Between 1979 and 1996 the total building for houses by local authorities and by registered social landlords was 913,690, while from 1997 to 2008 building totalled a significantly lower 290,750.

    Given that the last Conservative Government was in power for 18 years and the DCLG figures only cover Labour’s first 11 years it is worth looking at the average building under each Government.

    Again the figures back up Mr Hunt. Between 1979 and 1996 an average of 50,761 new homes in the social housing sector were built, compared to 24,299 from 1997-2008.'
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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    dr_spyn said:
    It's only a matter of time before The Daily Mail publishes a Selfie of a gurning Ed next to a Kardashian.

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    Miss Cyclefree, and others, might like to know Gove has described gender segregation in universities as 'pandering to extremism':
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/dec/13/michael-gove-university-gender-segregation
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Further encouraging economic news. Getting ever closer to the light at the end of the tunnel!

    http://www.cityam.com/article/1386903318/britain-s-great-wage-squeeze-ends-last

    Makes grim reading.

    For tim and Ed.
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    MillsyMillsy Posts: 900
    edited December 2013
    If Labour had won the last election and formed a government, do you think the economy would be doing better, doing worse, or would it be much the same?

    Better 21
    Worse 42
    Same 26
    DK 11

    LD10 voters
    Better 21
    Worse 35
    Same 33
    DK 11

    Ukip voters
    Better 8
    Worse 58
    Same 30
    DK 3

    Labour do marginally better on second question:

    And if Labour had won the last election and formed a government, do you think you and your family would now be financially better off than you are today, worse off, or would you be
    much the same?

    Better 25
    Worse 32
    Same 31
    DK 11

    LD10 voters
    Better 23
    Worse 28
    Same 40
    DK 9

    Ukip voters
    Better 18
    Worse 49
    Same 30
    DK 3

    http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/8v08iil38z/Sun_Results_131212.pdf
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,148

    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    Well done to yesterday's winners and your prizes are in the post .... Er hhmmm ....

    Ok off we go then .... and firstly a clue !!

    The answer does not involve Scottish nobles - No Sireee .... although I think the Coalition should legislate that 50% of all quiz questions answers should feature members of the North British aristocracy, but that's just a personal foible.

    .............................

    Which historic high office and political party links :

    a. The firebrand "son of a washerwoman"
    b. The father of the first female spitfire pilot in WWII.
    c. The husband of a lady of a former Portuguese Asian colony

    And who are the three individuals ?

    Are we allowed partial guesses, as I think I know two of the above, although the link's got me flummoxed.
    Absolutely. Go for it

    a) The firebrand son of a washerwoman: John Burns ?

    b) The father of the first female spitfire pilot in WWII: Robert Gower? (Although his daughter was the head of the Air Transport Auxiliary; I'm not sure she was it's first pilot. Indeed, I'm not sure how you can class who was the first)

    Not sure about c.
    Is c) Vince Cable. Wasn't his first wife Goan?
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,408
    edited December 2013
    An insight into why there are 2 questions in the proposed Catalan referendum (which mystified me I have to say), and some of the tensions among the Yes parties.

    'I think it's the best they could do.'

    http://tinyurl.com/pe635he
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    Was BBC iplayer available in South Africa when they ran Question Time last night from Johannesburg?

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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,380



    In the areas I have lived, I have been asked to show my poll card, and asked my name and address. I can't remember having been asked for ID. That is hardly the most onerous security. But it is also one of the advantages of the in-person voting: to commit fraud you have to have access to the poll card, and also enough people to go around the polling stations and make a difference.

    This makes large-scale fraud at the polling station hard. Individuals can commit fraud, but it is hard for many people to do so. Leaving aside PV, the most effective place to commit widescale fraud would be at the count, which is probably why parties have observers at the counts.

    EV allows the potential for fraud on a massive scale.

    You definitely do not require your poll card - all parties stress this to their supporters as otherwise people mislay them and think they can't vote. You just say "Sorry, I've mislaid it, but I'm Sean Thomas of 17 Muswell Hill" and they believe you and let you vote for the Al Quaeda Solidarity Front.

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,044
    isam said:

    Looks like Smith and Haddin have secured Australia the Ashes. All over before Christmas. Very disappointing. Entirely predictable. With our batsmen we are just not competitive.

    I know you are trolling, and I admit England's batting has been awful, althoigh it probably won us the Ashes last time in Aus, but its ridiculous not to have a Look at the bowling as well. The Aussie tail, particularly Johnson and Harris, have taken our attack apart and they're hardly Ponting and Waugh. Swann has been poor all series as has the third seamer each test.

    Bowling coach David Saker has just been interviewed and is steaming regarding the terrible length our boys have bowled today, and the team selection, which leads me to my original point...


    It should not be allowed for a foreigner to play any role in international sport. It is utterly ridiculous that an Australian is in charge of England's bowling in the Ashes..

    International sport should be about how good each nation is, and that means in every single aspect, coaching, physiotherapy etc etc

    It should be a matter of complete and utter shame to resort to hiring a foreigner, let alone the unfairness of it on poorer nations who can't afford such good coaches etc

    I know we have SA born players, and I would look more closely at that too, but at least they are claiming to be English
    Alistair Cook's dreadfully defensive field settings wind me up - Need wickets.... Go down to one slip ! It goes along with the shocking over rate too. No doubt we'll head along at two an over when we get into bat too.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,258



    In the areas I have lived, I have been asked to show my poll card, and asked my name and address. I can't remember having been asked for ID. That is hardly the most onerous security. But it is also one of the advantages of the in-person voting: to commit fraud you have to have access to the poll card, and also enough people to go around the polling stations and make a difference.

    This makes large-scale fraud at the polling station hard. Individuals can commit fraud, but it is hard for many people to do so. Leaving aside PV, the most effective place to commit widescale fraud would be at the count, which is probably why parties have observers at the counts.

    EV allows the potential for fraud on a massive scale.

    You definitely do not require your poll card - all parties stress this to their supporters as otherwise people mislay them and think they can't vote. You just say "Sorry, I've mislaid it, but I'm Sean Thomas of 17 Muswell Hill" and they believe you and let you vote for the Al Quaeda Solidarity Front.

    Yep, good point. But it still does not allow mass widespread fraud in a way that is hard to detect, at least in that part of the process.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Was BBC iplayer available in South Africa when they ran Question Time last night from Johannesburg?

    Highly recommended. It really is very funny. 'The Zimbabwe solution' (!!) for land redistribution was clearly being seriously considered by at least one member of the panel and a large minority of the audience.

    Peter Hain's face was a picture.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    Well done to yesterday's winners and your prizes are in the post .... Er hhmmm ....

    Ok off we go then .... and firstly a clue !!

    The answer does not involve Scottish nobles - No Sireee .... although I think the Coalition should legislate that 50% of all quiz questions answers should feature members of the North British aristocracy, but that's just a personal foible.

    .............................

    Which historic high office and political party links :

    a. The firebrand "son of a washerwoman"
    b. The father of the first female spitfire pilot in WWII.
    c. The husband of a lady of a former Portuguese Asian colony

    And who are the three individuals ?

    Are we allowed partial guesses, as I think I know two of the above, although the link's got me flummoxed.
    Absolutely. Go for it

    a) The firebrand son of a washerwoman: John Burns ?

    b) The father of the first female spitfire pilot in WWII: Robert Gower? (Although his daughter was the head of the Air Transport Auxiliary; I'm not sure she was it's first pilot. Indeed, I'm not sure how you can class who was the first)

    Not sure about c.
    Is c) Vince Cable. Wasn't his first wife Goan?
    Correct. Olympia Cable was from Goa. Sadly she died from a recurrence of breast cancer in 2001. They had been married for 33 years.

    Accordingly the party is the LibDems/Libs.

    But who is b and what is the historic post that links the three.

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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,288
    isam said:


    It should not be allowed for a foreigner to play any role in international sport. It is utterly ridiculous that an Australian is in charge of England's bowling in the Ashes..

    Surely we should find the best possible bowling coach that we can. If that means outbidding the Aussies for an Aussie, so be it.

    It's a little like saying "It's ridiculous that out football players use boots made by a foreign company. We shouldn't use Nike's but should choose an English boot manufacturer, even if that means our team performs less well than it might do."
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    Miss Cyclefree, and others, might like to know Gove has described gender segregation in universities as 'pandering to extremism':
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/dec/13/michael-gove-university-gender-segregation

    He may be right but the case is made harder to argue by single-sex schools and colleges.

    OT -- what we really need is an Ed Sec to combat the use of "gender" to mean "sex".
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,044
    Always good fun to look at Populus' data tables: Reweighting UKIP from 245 -> 127... LOL
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''Labour & housing just a sick joke.''

    Today's construction figures show that there is effectively a boom in private sector housebuilding. Who knew that rising prices would stimulate supply?

    Plus this is for profit, so one assumes these will be dwellings people actually might want to buy.

    Labour would have had the taxpayer spend billions to construct social housing nobody wants to live in.


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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,148
    Ok off we go then .... and firstly a clue !!

    The answer does not involve Scottish nobles - No Sireee .... although I think the Coalition should legislate that 50% of all quiz questions answers should feature members of the North British aristocracy, but that's just a personal foible.
    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    Well done to yesterday's winners and your prizes are in the post .... Er hhmmm ....

    Ok off we go then .... and firstly a clue !!

    The answer does not involve Scottish nobles - No Sireee .... although I think the Coalition should legislate that 50% of all quiz questions answers should feature members of the North British aristocracy, but that's just a personal foible.

    .............................

    Which historic high office and political party links :

    a. The firebrand "son of a washerwoman"
    b. The father of the first female spitfire pilot in WWII.
    c. The husband of a lady of a former Portuguese Asian colony

    And who are the three individuals ?

    Are we allowed partial guesses, as I think I know two of the above, although the link's got me flummoxed.
    Absolutely. Go for it

    a) The firebrand son of a washerwoman: John Burns ?

    b) The father of the first female spitfire pilot in WWII: Robert Gower? (Although his daughter was the head of the Air Transport Auxiliary; I'm not sure she was it's first pilot. Indeed, I'm not sure how you can class who was the first)

    Not sure about c.
    Is c) Vince Cable. Wasn't his first wife Goan?
    Correct. Olympia Cable was from Goa. Sadly she died from a recurrence of breast cancer in 2001. They had been married for 33 years.

    Accordingly the party is the LibDems/Libs.

    But who is b and what is the historic post that links the three.

    President of the Board of Trade/Business Secretary.

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,044

    Miss Cyclefree, and others, might like to know Gove has described gender segregation in universities as 'pandering to extremism':
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/dec/13/michael-gove-university-gender-segregation

    He may be right but the case is made harder to argue by single-sex schools and colleges.

    OT -- what we really need is an Ed Sec to combat the use of "gender" to mean "sex".
    Gender and sex are synonyms, both words can have a different meaning also... What is the issue ?
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    I shall put a time limit of 11:30am on the quiz, as I'm off out, and the first prize of a years supply of Labour economic excuses.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Ok off we go then .... and firstly a clue !!

    The answer does not involve Scottish nobles - No Sireee .... although I think the Coalition should legislate that 50% of all quiz questions answers should feature members of the North British aristocracy, but that's just a personal foible.


    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    Well done to yesterday's winners and your prizes are in the post .... Er hhmmm ....

    Ok off we go then .... and firstly a clue !!

    The answer does not involve Scottish nobles - No Sireee .... although I think the Coalition should legislate that 50% of all quiz questions answers should feature members of the North British aristocracy, but that's just a personal foible.

    .............................

    Which historic high office and political party links :

    a. The firebrand "son of a washerwoman"
    b. The father of the first female spitfire pilot in WWII.
    c. The husband of a lady of a former Portuguese Asian colony

    And who are the three individuals ?

    Are we allowed partial guesses, as I think I know two of the above, although the link's got me flummoxed.
    Absolutely. Go for it

    a) The firebrand son of a washerwoman: John Burns ?

    b) The father of the first female spitfire pilot in WWII: Robert Gower? (Although his daughter was the head of the Air Transport Auxiliary; I'm not sure she was it's first pilot. Indeed, I'm not sure how you can class who was the first)

    Not sure about c.
    Is c) Vince Cable. Wasn't his first wife Goan?
    Correct. Olympia Cable was from Goa. Sadly she died from a recurrence of breast cancer in 2001. They had been married for 33 years.

    Accordingly the party is the LibDems/Libs.

    But who is b and what is the historic post that links the three.

    President of the Board of Trade/Business Secretary.

    Correct. President of the Board of Trade - a post that originates in the late 17th century.

    Just person b left ....

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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,157
    The Quiz - the post is obviously the President of the Board of Trade (as was).

    But still stumped by the Spitfire. The only ones to come to mind are Diana Barnato Walker of the ATS and Carolyn Grace who has her own two-seater but is far too modern a lady to qualify.

    BTW - sorry about the username, I can't work out how to change it. I was going to reply to the question re the carnyx horn (having seen it in action at the opening of the Museum of Scotland in 1998, complete with its vibrating tongue) but someone else got in before me!
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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited December 2013
    JackW said:

    I shall put a time limit of 11:30am on the quiz, as I'm off out, and the first prize of a years supply of Labour economic excuses.

    I'm guessing that the second prize is a two year supply?
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    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:


    It should not be allowed for a foreigner to play any role in international sport. It is utterly ridiculous that an Australian is in charge of England's bowling in the Ashes..

    Surely we should find the best possible bowling coach that we can. If that means outbidding the Aussies for an Aussie, so be it.

    It's a little like saying "It's ridiculous that out football players use boots made by a foreign company. We shouldn't use Nike's but should choose an English boot manufacturer, even if that means our team performs less well than it might do."

    No, we should use the best Englishman or woman available, and should feel ashamed at hiring anyone without a British passport.

    To take it to the extreme I guess you could say you have to use equipment made by your own country, or have the same equipment for all teams. But manufacturers could and do, franchise, so that could never work, and is easy to get round... Nike could just set up Nike UK , for instance..

    But I'm not an extremist, I just believe in not cheating, which is what hiring a foreign coach in international competition is.

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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,288
    isam said:


    No, we should use the best Englishman or woman available, and should feel ashamed at hiring anyone without a British passport.

    So, you would rather we lost test matches. Well, it's a view I guess.
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    isam said:


    But I'm not an extremist, I just believe in not cheating, which is what hiring a foreign coach in international competition is.

    Would hiring a male coach for a women's team also be cheating?
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Carnyx said:

    The Quiz - the post is obviously the President of the Board of Trade (as was).

    But still stumped by the Spitfire. The only ones to come to mind are Diana Barnato Walker of the ATS and Carolyn Grace who has her own two-seater but is far too modern a lady to qualify.

    BTW - sorry about the username, I can't work out how to change it. I was going to reply to the question re the carnyx horn (having seen it in action at the opening of the Museum of Scotland in 1998, complete with its vibrating tongue) but someone else got in before me!

    Person b is a wee bit tricky but interesting still.



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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    I shall put a time limit of 11:30am on the quiz, as I'm off out, and the first prize of a years supply of Labour economic excuses.

    I'm guessing that the second prize is a two year supply?
    LOL.

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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,148
    edited December 2013
    JackW said:

    Ok off we go then .... and firstly a clue !!

    The answer does not involve Scottish nobles - No Sireee .... although I think the Coalition should legislate that 50% of all quiz questions answers should feature members of the North British aristocracy, but that's just a personal foible.


    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    Well done to yesterday's winners and your prizes are in the post .... Er hhmmm ....

    Ok off we go then .... and firstly a clue !!

    The answer does not involve Scottish nobles - No Sireee .... although I think the Coalition should legislate that 50% of all quiz questions answers should feature members of the North British aristocracy, but that's just a personal foible.

    .............................

    Which historic high office and political party links :

    a. The firebrand "son of a washerwoman"
    b. The father of the first female spitfire pilot in WWII.
    c. The husband of a lady of a former Portuguese Asian colony

    And who are the three individuals ?

    Are we allowed partial guesses, as I think I know two of the above, although the link's got me flummoxed.
    Absolutely. Go for it

    a) The firebrand son of a washerwoman: John Burns ?

    b) The father of the first female spitfire pilot in WWII: Robert Gower? (Although his daughter was the head of the Air Transport Auxiliary; I'm not sure she was it's first pilot. Indeed, I'm not sure how you can class who was the first)

    Not sure about c.
    Is c) Vince Cable. Wasn't his first wife Goan?
    Correct. Olympia Cable was from Goa. Sadly she died from a recurrence of breast cancer in 2001. They had been married for 33 years.

    Accordingly the party is the LibDems/Libs.

    But who is b and what is the historic post that links the three.

    President of the Board of Trade/Business Secretary.

    Correct. President of the Board of Trade - a post that originates in the late 17th century.

    Just person b left ....

    The only one who seems to fit the Rugby clue is Sidney Webb, but he was Labour.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    Is this how state sponsored innovation works in Britain?

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/12/13/uk_innovation_nesta_fentem/?page=1
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    Welcome to pb.com, Mr. Carnyx (splendid name, incidentally). I think changing the username may be possible, though I'm not sure how.

    Mr. Taffys, that's depressing (about land redistribution) yet not remotely surprising.

    Mr. L, I'd argue that some examples of single sex/gender provision (ie safehouses for beaten wives or gyms for one gender only) are alright. But in a setting of learning and thinking segregation within a classroom or lecture hall serves no other purpose than to exhibit sexism. Would we tolerate the segregation, within a university lecture, of blacks and whites? Of gays and straights?

    There's a yawning chasm of difference between choice and force.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,258
    JackW said:

    Carnyx said:

    The Quiz - the post is obviously the President of the Board of Trade (as was).

    But still stumped by the Spitfire. The only ones to come to mind are Diana Barnato Walker of the ATS and Carolyn Grace who has her own two-seater but is far too modern a lady to qualify.

    BTW - sorry about the username, I can't work out how to change it. I was going to reply to the question re the carnyx horn (having seen it in action at the opening of the Museum of Scotland in 1998, complete with its vibrating tongue) but someone else got in before me!

    Person b is a wee bit tricky but interesting still.

    I've even looked into my books about Spitfires and the ATA (at least the ones not in storage), but still cannot work out the 'first' woman to fly a Spitfire in WWII. In desperation by looking on Wiki, Maureen Dunlop doesn't seem to fit the clues.

    Ah, it's just occurred to me: she might be Canadian or Polish, as you didn't mention the RAF. But then what would be the link with the Liberal Party?

    Befudled...
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,748
    edited December 2013
    Neil said:

    isam said:


    But I'm not an extremist, I just believe in not cheating, which is what hiring a foreign coach in international competition is.

    Would hiring a male coach for a women's team also be cheating?
    I'm partial to banning anyone playing for England men's cricket team who has a girl's name.

    Yes, I'm talking about you Jade Dernbach.

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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Person b is ..... Walter Runciman - he was Liberal President of the Board of Trade after John Burns and again as a National Liberal in the 1930's for 6 years.

    His daughter Margaret Fairweather was a noted pre-war aviator and racked up more that 1000 hours prior to war breaking out. She was one of the founding 8 women pilots of the ATA. Sadly she died on active service in 1944.

    Cable, Runciman and Burns are the last 3 LibDem/Lib holders of the office of President of the Board of Trade.
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    Mr. Eagles, tricky, though. Beverley and Carole are both technically unisex.

    It would also significantly diminish our chances in women's sport.
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215

    JackW said:

    Carnyx said:

    The Quiz - the post is obviously the President of the Board of Trade (as was).

    But still stumped by the Spitfire. The only ones to come to mind are Diana Barnato Walker of the ATS and Carolyn Grace who has her own two-seater but is far too modern a lady to qualify.

    BTW - sorry about the username, I can't work out how to change it. I was going to reply to the question re the carnyx horn (having seen it in action at the opening of the Museum of Scotland in 1998, complete with its vibrating tongue) but someone else got in before me!

    Person b is a wee bit tricky but interesting still.

    I've even looked into my books about Spitfires and the ATA (at least the ones not in storage), but still cannot work out the 'first' woman to fly a Spitfire in WWII. In desperation by looking on Wiki, Maureen Dunlop doesn't seem to fit the clues.

    Ah, it's just occurred to me: she might be Canadian or Polish, as you didn't mention the RAF. But then what would be the link with the Liberal Party?

    Befudled...
    Canada has a Liberal Party.
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    Mr. Eagles, tricky, though. Beverley and Carole are both technically unisex.

    It would also significantly diminish our chances in women's sport.

    I meant the England men's team.

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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,258
    Walter Runciman!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Runciman,_1st_Viscount_Runciman_of_Doxford

    I cheated by liberal (ahem) use of Wikipedia ...
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    Oh what a shame well never mind.

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/dec/12/police-losing-evidence-sexual-assault-mike-hancock?CMP=twt_gu

    So much for that Portsmouth by election...
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    dr_spyn said:

    Oh what a shame well never mind.

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/dec/12/police-losing-evidence-sexual-assault-mike-hancock?CMP=twt_gu

    So much for that Portsmouth by election...

    Surely the conspiracy theory expert Norman Baker will proffer his thoughts on that.
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    Dr. Spyn, that's shocking incompetence from the police.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,157
    Ah! Most educational to learn about Margaret Fairweather. The women - and men too - of the ATS were very hard working in wartime conditions (smog-blackout), flying in and out of airfields in all weathers, with perhaps a teenage Air Cadet to twiddle the knobs they couldn't reach in multi-crew planes. I have read the reminiscences of one such Air Cadet.

    If nobody objects I'll keep the username!
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    Mr. Carnyx, I'm sure nobody will mind (I only mentioned the possible changing because I thought you might want to).
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,258
    JackW said:

    Person b is ..... Walter Runciman - he was Liberal President of the Board of Trade after John Burns and again as a National Liberal in the 1930's for 6 years.

    His daughter Margaret Fairweather was a noted pre-war aviator and racked up more that 1000 hours prior to war breaking out. She was one of the founding 8 women pilots of the ATA. Sadly she died on active service in 1944.

    Cable, Runciman and Burns are the last 3 LibDem/Lib holders of the office of President of the Board of Trade.

    Darned! You gave the answer two minutes before I posted!

    I am rather dubious about the claim of her being the first female Spitfire pilot. Perhaps the term 'officially' should be applied. ;-)
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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    dr_spyn said:

    Is this how state sponsored innovation works in Britain?

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/12/13/uk_innovation_nesta_fentem/?page=1

    Eerily reminiscent of the UK Film Council which was skilled in the art of shovelling money into black holes.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Well done all who took part, I hope it set the little grey cells to crunch away.

    Margaret Fairweather was a wee bit tricky but I did try to hedge a little.

    Thus a Conservative question yesterday and a Liberal one today. Tomorrow we'll have one for Labour.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    @Carnyx

    Welcome to our little quiz site .... we also do political betting from time to time !!

    .............................

    Toodles ....
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    dr_spyn said:

    Is this how state sponsored innovation works in Britain?

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/12/13/uk_innovation_nesta_fentem/?page=1

    To be fair, British companies don't seem too good at fostering innovation either. Look around -- how much high tech kit in your home or office was invented or even built here rather than in America or Korea, China, Japan or Germany?
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Indeed after watching the QT last night, I am wondering whether I should visit SA again before the radicals do go Zimbabwe style on the farmers. There is a good rate for the Rand at the moment.

    Welcome to pb.com, Mr. Carnyx (splendid name, incidentally). I think changing the username may be possible, though I'm not sure how.

    Mr. Taffys, that's depressing (about land redistribution) yet not remotely surprising.

    Mr. L, I'd argue that some examples of single sex/gender provision (ie safehouses for beaten wives or gyms for one gender only) are alright. But in a setting of learning and thinking segregation within a classroom or lecture hall serves no other purpose than to exhibit sexism. Would we tolerate the segregation, within a university lecture, of blacks and whites? Of gays and straights?

    There's a yawning chasm of difference between choice and force.

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    dr_spyn said:

    Is this how state sponsored innovation works in Britain?

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/12/13/uk_innovation_nesta_fentem/?page=1

    Innovation apart, it is also depressing to read the subtext about the small web of inter-related (when not just related) grandees running the show.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    edited December 2013
    @DecrepitJohnL

    It is depressing stuff, imagine what would have happened if Sam Whitbread had gone to Nesta with an idea for brewing beer on an industrial scale?

    But isn't Labour wanting to intervene / interfer with an industrial policy?

    This is their latest help small business stuff - cup cakes, bloody cup cakes.

    https://www.labour.org.uk/today-the-whole-country-stands-with-small-businesses-like-mine
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    The whole point of international sport competition is that it is nations that compete against each other . Hence people who hold influential positions in a team (individuals like Murrey are different except at davis cup) should be from that nation.
    Besides motivation and passion may sometimes be somewhat lacking in a foreigner managing or coaching a team . The foreign England football managers have hardly been a success and looked not bothered at the end
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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited December 2013
    dr_spyn said:

    @DecrepitJohnL

    It is depressing stuff, imagine what would have happened if Sam Whitbread had gone to Nesta with an idea for brewing beer on an industrial scale?

    But isn't Labour wanting to intervene / interfer with an industrial policy?

    This is their latest help small business stuff - cup cakes, bloody cup cakes.

    https://www.labour.org.uk/today-the-whole-country-stands-with-small-businesses-like-mine

    Cup cakes? There's innovation for you. I wonder if anyone else has cottoned on to the same, unique, idea?

    As for Sam Whitbread, one suspects his request for help with brewing would have been declined on health and religious inclusion grounds.
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    poaching foreigners also means the countries with the most money get an unfair advantage
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    Ed Balls has fallen behind George Osborne as the man most trusted to run the economy, an exclusive poll reveals today.

    In a new blow to the shadow chancellor — who has faced a whispering campaign in recent days — fewer than one in three think he would make a more capable Chancellor than Tory Osborne, Ipsos MORI found.

    The pair were level-pegging in August when the same question was asked. But now Mr Osborne has a clear lead: he is preferred by 40 per cent, and Mr Balls by 29 per cent. When those polled were asked if they liked Balls and Osborne, they scored 27 per cent each.

    Mr Balls was disliked by slightly fewer people — 51 per cent to the Chancellor’s 54 per cent. But when asked about their policies, Mr Osborne was markedly ahead. His policies were liked by 36 per cent and disliked by 45 per cent.

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    Labour’s lead over the Conservatives has narrowed two points to four, Ipsos MORI found. Ed Miliband’s party is down one to 37 per cent while the Tories are up a point to 33. Nick Clegg’s Lib-Dems are up one to nine but are being squeezed to fourth place by Nigel Farage’s Ukip, up two to 10.

    Satisfaction with David Cameron and Mr Clegg has increased since November’s monthly poll, while Mr Miliband has stayed the same. It suggests Labour’s post-conference boost has ended.
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    dr_spyn said:

    @DecrepitJohnL

    It is depressing stuff, imagine what would have happened if Sam Whitbread had gone to Nesta with an idea for brewing beer on an industrial scale?

    But isn't Labour wanting to intervene / interfer with an industrial policy?

    This is their latest help small business stuff - cup cakes, bloody cup cakes.

    https://www.labour.org.uk/today-the-whole-country-stands-with-small-businesses-like-mine

    Imagine what would happen if Sam went to the board of any British company, or tried to get a commercial loan from any British bank.

    I don't claim to know what the answer is but do not see a party political angle here. The problem engulfs both parties and probably the whole post-war Establishment.
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    So that Ipsos-Mori in full

    Lab 37 (-1)

    Con 33 (+1)

    UKIP 10 (+2)

    LD 9 (+1)
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,258

    dr_spyn said:

    Is this how state sponsored innovation works in Britain?

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/12/13/uk_innovation_nesta_fentem/?page=1

    To be fair, British companies don't seem too good at fostering innovation either. Look around -- how much high tech kit in your home or office was invented or even built here rather than in America or Korea, China, Japan or Germany?
    That is perhaps the wrong test. I could drive for fifteen minutes from where I am sitting and visit at least four companies doing world-class research into computer hardware and software. And they are just the ones I am familiar with, in this one industry.

    If you want an example that is slightly further away, look at ARM. Few, if any, ARM chips are fabricated in Britain so would not pass your test, but the IP and base technology are firmly here in the UK.

    As a country we are brilliant at research. We should not sit on our laurels as we could always do better, but it is not where the main problem lies. It is in developing that research. There is just too much short-termism: people want investments that repay in three or four years, rather than the ten+ years it can take to get a product to market and profitable.

    This story shows how terrible the government are at trying to pick - or even back - winners.

    Time for me to express a personal bugbear:

    MPs are perfectly happy to come and open a company's new building (especially if the press will be there), but are, in my experience, less willing to appear when that company requests a meeting to sort out an issue with government.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    It is not a serious attempt at helping Two Broke Girls or other SME; just an attempt at shoring up votes with the British Bakeoff/mumsnet meme.

    Vote Labour for cupcakes. Depressing, but at least not a blank sheet of baking parchment!

    dr_spyn said:

    @DecrepitJohnL

    It is depressing stuff, imagine what would have happened if Sam Whitbread had gone to Nesta with an idea for brewing beer on an industrial scale?

    But isn't Labour wanting to intervene / interfer with an industrial policy?

    This is their latest help small business stuff - cup cakes, bloody cup cakes.

    https://www.labour.org.uk/today-the-whole-country-stands-with-small-businesses-like-mine

    Cup cakes? There's innovation for you. I wonder if anyone else has cottoned on to the same, unique, idea?
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    dr_spyn said:

    @DecrepitJohnL

    It is depressing stuff, imagine what would have happened if Sam Whitbread had gone to Nesta with an idea for brewing beer on an industrial scale?

    But isn't Labour wanting to intervene / interfer with an industrial policy?

    This is their latest help small business stuff - cup cakes, bloody cup cakes.

    https://www.labour.org.uk/today-the-whole-country-stands-with-small-businesses-like-mine

    Imagine what would happen if Sam went to the board of any British company, or tried to get a commercial loan from any British bank.

    I don't claim to know what the answer is but do not see a party political angle here. The problem engulfs both parties and probably the whole post-war Establishment.
    businessesdo not need government money or grants(that create unequal playing fields) ,they need to be free of daft and political regulation (and low taxes. Here is an idea-abolish the department for industry ,pay no grants or guarantees ,stop giving 'advice' to businesses and use the money saved to lower business rates or abolish the jobs tax
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    edited December 2013
    [OK, Beaten by TSE]

    First results for this month's MORI poll appearing in the Standard

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/george-osborne-opens-up-clear-lead-over-ed-balls-as-most-trusted-to-run-economy-9002873.html

    Labour lead down to 4, Dave and Nick's satisfaction ratings improve, Ed's remains stable.

    George opening up big lead over Redder Ed.
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    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,060
    edited December 2013
    MORI deleted as duplicated.

    TSE too quick - bit like Suarez vs Spurs makeshift defence sadly?
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    Satisfaction has risen for David Cameron, Nick Clegg and Nigel Farage, but has stayed steady for Ed Miliband:

    Mr Miliband has a net rating (% satisfied minus % dissatisfied) of -25, steady from -23 last month. 29% are satisfied with his performance as Labour leader, while 54% are dissatisfied. Mr Miliband’s net rating among Labour supporters is +6.

    While still less popular than Mr Miliband, Nick Clegg has, in contrast, seen a big rise from a net rating of -43 last month to -29 this month; 28% are satisfied with his performance as Deputy

    Prime Minister, 57% dissatisfied. Among Lib Dems his net rating is +14.

    David Cameron has a net rating of -13, his highest since March 2012. 39% are satisfied with his performance as Prime Minister, his highest score since January 2012, while 52% are dissatisfied. Among Conservative supporters his net rating is at +61.

    Nigel Farage’s net rating is at -5, up from -13 last month; 33% are satisfied in his performance as UKIP leader, with 38% dissatisfied. Among UKIP supporters his net rating is at +81.

    Net satisfaction in the performance of the government is at -26, from -31 last month, with 32%
    satisfied and 58% dissatisfied. Among Conservatives and Lib Dems, its net satisfaction rating is at +31.

    http://ipsos-mori.co.uk/researchpublications/researcharchive/3314/George-Osborne-takes-lead-over-Ed-Balls-as-most-capable-Chancellor.aspx
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,288

    The whole point of international sport competition is that it is nations that compete against each other . Hence people who hold influential positions in a team (individuals like Murrey are different except at davis cup) should be from that nation.
    Besides motivation and passion may sometimes be somewhat lacking in a foreigner managing or coaching a team . The foreign England football managers have hardly been a success and looked not bothered at the end

    This is not about the people who represent the country. This is about the resources used to support the team. The England bowling coach does not represent England. The England football manager does not represent England.

    And we should use the best person possible, and the best kit possible, and the best training possible, irrespective of where that comes from.

    (By the way, your 'rich countries' argument is vaguely ridiculous, unless you plan on banning the UK from building velodromes to support our cycling team etc. Rich countries have better facilities and that's OK.)
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    Changes in leader ratings since last month

    Dave + 8

    Ed - 2

    Clegg +14
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    So Ed -25
    Clegg -29

    Crossover incoming??
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    MORI deleted as duplicated.

    TSE too quick - bit like Suarez vs Spurs makeshift defence sadly?

    Read this, it'll cheer you up

    White Hart Pain: Here is why the trends are stacked against Liverpool

    http://blog.paddypower.com/2013/12/11/white-hart-pain-here-is-why-the-trends-are-stacked-against-liverpool/
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    rcs1000 said:

    The whole point of international sport competition is that it is nations that compete against each other . Hence people who hold influential positions in a team (individuals like Murrey are different except at davis cup) should be from that nation.
    Besides motivation and passion may sometimes be somewhat lacking in a foreigner managing or coaching a team . The foreign England football managers have hardly been a success and looked not bothered at the end

    This is not about the people who represent the country. This is about the resources used to support the team. The England bowling coach does not represent England. The England football manager does not represent England.

    And we should use the best person possible, and the best kit possible, and the best training possible, irrespective of where that comes from.

    (By the way, your 'rich countries' argument is vaguely ridiculous, unless you plan on banning the UK from building velodromes to support our cycling team etc. Rich countries have better facilities and that's OK.)
    god I hate it when people say another argument is ridiculous -anyway procuring the best equipment is obviously an advantage for richer nations so why make the advantage even bigger by allowing hiring of foreign managers /coaches? You can say its all nationalistic to think of a 'natives only' policy but then then international competition is by its nature nationalistic. Otherwise you get club type competition which is fine as an alternative ,so why make them effectively the same by having a free for all at country level?
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291

    It is not a serious attempt at helping Two Broke Girls or other SME; just an attempt at shoring up votes with the British Bakeoff/mumsnet meme.

    Vote Labour for cupcakes. Depressing, but at least not a blank sheet of baking parchment!

    dr_spyn said:

    @DecrepitJohnL

    It is depressing stuff, imagine what would have happened if Sam Whitbread had gone to Nesta with an idea for brewing beer on an industrial scale?

    But isn't Labour wanting to intervene / interfer with an industrial policy?

    This is their latest help small business stuff - cup cakes, bloody cup cakes.

    https://www.labour.org.uk/today-the-whole-country-stands-with-small-businesses-like-mine

    Cup cakes? There's innovation for you. I wonder if anyone else has cottoned on to the same, unique, idea?
    I have in my hand, a piece of baking parchment signed by Herr Hitler...

    Ed M's industrial policy a scrap of baking parchment.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Another PB Kinnock anecdotal meme crushed against the rocks of polling reality

    @tnewtondunn: New Ipsos Mori poll has @George_Osborne opening up an 11 point lead over @edballsmp as best chancellor, 40% v 29%. In August, 36% v 35%.

    Heart of stone, etc.

    And some people will surely be upset by this shallow attention seeker

    @LabourList: Ed Miliband - the man of many selfies http://labli.st/1jWoJiy
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Start backing the Tories...
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,288
    edited December 2013


    god I hate it when people say another argument is ridiculous -anyway procuring the best equipment is obviously an advantage for richer nations so why make the advantage even bigger by allowing hiring of foreign managers /coaches? You can say its all nationalistic to think of a 'natives only' policy but then then international competition is by its nature nationalistic. Otherwise you get club type competition which is fine as an alternative ,so why make them effectively the same by having a free for all at country level?

    I apologise for calling your argument ridiculous.

    However, I think it's important to recognise there is no possibility that FIFA or the ICC are going to ban foreign coaches. If you want to lobby them to do so, that is your business, but the organisations regulating international sporting competitions have chosen not to.

    Therefore, your argument is that we should be the only country in the world which competes not on the quality of our home-grown players, but also on the quality of our coaches.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    There is a good rate for the Rand at the moment.

    If what I heard on QT last night is even close to happening, that rate is about to get a lot, lot better.

    A land grab in SA would be completely different to Zimbabwe because we are not talking about a handful of white farmers here. We are talking about a very large number of white farmers -plus their extended families and supporters and links abroad.

    Some might fight, which means that in addition to an economic catastrophe we might be looking at a huge bloodbath.

    In short, a cataclysm. And one which would reverberate around the world and hugely influence black/white relations in other countries.

    No wonder Hain's face was ashen.

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    Any chance of a thread showing the latest Mori leader net satisfaction scores please. From when Ed M took over as LofTo seens to be fair to start from....
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    tim said:

    Poor ratings moves for Ed & Ed, but both lead Cameron and Osborne among 2010 Lib Dems.

    Ouch, is that what you're clinging to?

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    rcs1000 said:


    god I hate it when people say another argument is ridiculous -anyway procuring the best equipment is obviously an advantage for richer nations so why make the advantage even bigger by allowing hiring of foreign managers /coaches? You can say its all nationalistic to think of a 'natives only' policy but then then international competition is by its nature nationalistic. Otherwise you get club type competition which is fine as an alternative ,so why make them effectively the same by having a free for all at country level?

    I apologise for calling your argument ridiculous.

    However, I think it's important to recognise there is no possibility that FIFA or the ICC are going to ban foreign coaches. If you want to lobby them to do so, that is your business, but the organisations regulating international sporting competitions have chosen not to.

    Therefore, your argument is that we should be the only country in the world which competes not on the quality of our home-grown players, but also on the quality of our coaches.
    Well obviously I am bothered enough to express my opinion on a website when the matter is raised .its another thing to become obsessed to the point of stalking FIFA about it!!

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    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:


    No, we should use the best Englishman or woman available, and should feel ashamed at hiring anyone without a British passport.

    So, you would rather we lost test matches. Well, it's a view I guess.

    I would rather lose than cheat yes
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,258
    Neil said:

    tim said:

    Poor ratings moves for Ed & Ed, but both lead Cameron and Osborne among 2010 Lib Dems.

    Ouch, is that what you're clinging to?

    Tim's next meme:

    "Poor ratings moves for Ed & Ed, but both lead Cameron and Osborne among 2010 Lib Dems called Mrs Johanna Utchens, living in Wimbledon."
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    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Neil said:

    isam said:


    But I'm not an extremist, I just believe in not cheating, which is what hiring a foreign coach in international competition is.

    Would hiring a male coach for a women's team also be cheating?
    I don't think so
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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited December 2013
    taffys said:

    There is a good rate for the Rand at the moment.

    If what I heard on QT last night is even close to happening, that rate is about to get a lot, lot better.

    A land grab in SA would be completely different to Zimbabwe because we are not talking about a handful of white farmers here. We are talking about a very large number of white farmers -plus their extended families and supporters and links abroad.

    Some might fight, which means that in addition to an economic catastrophe we might be looking at a huge bloodbath.

    In short, a cataclysm. And one which would reverberate around the world and hugely influence black/white relations in other countries.

    No wonder Hain's face was ashen.

    Indeed. The Boer won't hand their land over - they'll shoot anyone who comes to take it.

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    Neil said:

    tim said:

    Poor ratings moves for Ed & Ed, but both lead Cameron and Osborne among 2010 Lib Dems.

    Ouch, is that what you're clinging to?

    Neil said:

    tim said:

    Poor ratings moves for Ed & Ed, but both lead Cameron and Osborne among 2010 Lib Dems.

    Ouch, is that what you're clinging to?

    Thought exactly the same but wanted to be gentle...
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    isam said:

    Neil said:

    isam said:


    But I'm not an extremist, I just believe in not cheating, which is what hiring a foreign coach in international competition is.

    Would hiring a male coach for a women's team also be cheating?
    I don't think so
    But what's the difference? In both cases you are hiring as a coach someone who wouldnt be eligible to compete in the team itself.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    tim said:

    @isam

    Maybe we should ban Andy Murray in the olympics, after all he not only uses Lendl he also spent years being coached properly in Barcelona, traitor.

    Never heard such nonsense.

    You should read some of your own posts then!


    Not saying anyone should be banned because of who coaches them

    Fair enough for And Murray to be coached by whoever he likes when he is playing in individual events, but if there is such a thing as a Davis Cup coach, then that coach should have to qualify for the team the same as the players, in terms of nationality
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,288
    isam said:

    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:


    No, we should use the best Englishman or woman available, and should feel ashamed at hiring anyone without a British passport.

    So, you would rather we lost test matches. Well, it's a view I guess.

    I would rather lose than cheat yes
    Let me fix that for you: "I would rather lose than abide by the same rules as all other teams in the competition."
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    FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    Having a selfie with Joey Essex and Helen Flanagan demonstrates a lack of celeb-awareness among Ed's team. Essex and Flanagan are not cool.

    Lily Allen is okay.

    By the way. My Mam, who has had to give up work to look after my 59 year old Dad, has been allowed full-time carer benefits. Which is pretty good. My Dad was diagnosed with Alzheimers a couple of years back and although he is okay (still goes to the bookies everyday) he lacks co-ordination and can't dress himself, or cook, or make a cup of tea and gets very panicky if left alone. My mother - although she wasn't keen to do so (because it's hard going!) - genuinely had to give up work to look after him.

    Anyway, first of all, after a visit from the social bods, she was told they didn't meet the criteria for benefits. So they'd ve done 12 months living off early cashed-in pensions etc. A bit of a struggle but not too bad because they've paid the mortgage off etc. She didn't really fight the decision because - and I know this sounds heartless as his son - looking at my Dad he doesn't appear to be that useless. You have to live with him to get a grasp of his disabledness. But, the social bods came back after 12 months and granted benefits. All good.

    The moral of the story is that this is the benefits system WORKING WELL. They aren't just gifting people benefits anymore. And frustrating though it is (especially in the valleys, where loads of people are scamming. Even friends of mine), I believe claimants should be thoroughly checked out. For all they know, my Dad could be faking it!
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    Neil said:

    isam said:

    Neil said:

    isam said:


    But I'm not an extremist, I just believe in not cheating, which is what hiring a foreign coach in international competition is.

    Would hiring a male coach for a women's team also be cheating?
    I don't think so
    But what's the difference? In both cases you are hiring as a coach someone who wouldnt be eligible to compete in the team itself.
    Not in 1980's East Germany
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    isamisam Posts: 41,118

    rcs1000 said:

    The whole point of international sport competition is that it is nations that compete against each other . Hence people who hold influential positions in a team (individuals like Murrey are different except at davis cup) should be from that nation.
    Besides motivation and passion may sometimes be somewhat lacking in a foreigner managing or coaching a team . The foreign England football managers have hardly been a success and looked not bothered at the end

    This is not about the people who represent the country. This is about the resources used to support the team. The England bowling coach does not represent England. The England football manager does not represent England.

    And we should use the best person possible, and the best kit possible, and the best training possible, irrespective of where that comes from.

    (By the way, your 'rich countries' argument is vaguely ridiculous, unless you plan on banning the UK from building velodromes to support our cycling team etc. Rich countries have better facilities and that's OK.)
    god I hate it when people say another argument is ridiculous -anyway procuring the best equipment is obviously an advantage for richer nations so why make the advantage even bigger by allowing hiring of foreign managers /coaches? You can say its all nationalistic to think of a 'natives only' policy but then then international competition is by its nature nationalistic. Otherwise you get club type competition which is fine as an alternative ,so why make them effectively the same by having a free for all at country level?

    I think you are absolutely right.

    As if rich countries don't have enough of an advantage by having best facilities, we then get to buy the coaches f countries who have less money too!

    international sport is by definition, nationalistic, as you rightly say.

    if people want to cheat, and many people on here seem to thinks that's ok, then it's their decision. Would rather lose by playing fair.

    f the rich countries have so much money they should be able to produce decent enough coaches
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,288

    rcs1000 said:


    god I hate it when people say another argument is ridiculous -anyway procuring the best equipment is obviously an advantage for richer nations so why make the advantage even bigger by allowing hiring of foreign managers /coaches? You can say its all nationalistic to think of a 'natives only' policy but then then international competition is by its nature nationalistic. Otherwise you get club type competition which is fine as an alternative ,so why make them effectively the same by having a free for all at country level?

    I apologise for calling your argument ridiculous.

    However, I think it's important to recognise there is no possibility that FIFA or the ICC are going to ban foreign coaches. If you want to lobby them to do so, that is your business, but the organisations regulating international sporting competitions have chosen not to.

    Therefore, your argument is that we should be the only country in the world which competes not on the quality of our home-grown players, but also on the quality of our coaches.
    Well obviously I am bothered enough to express my opinion on a website when the matter is raised .its another thing to become obsessed to the point of stalking FIFA about it!!

    I guess my point is that - as far as I'm aware - there has never been any proposal, to any major sporting body suggesting that coaches should be from the same country to the one they coach.

    We would therefore be deliberately handicapping ourselves by choosing to play by different rules to everyone else.

    Furthermore, the system is absurdly open to 'gaming'. If a wealthy Brit were to personally hire (say) Pele to coach 11 English soccer players in their spare time, how could it be stopped?

    Therefore, a ban on foreign coaches (a) disadvantages us, and (b) would be essentially unenforceable.
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    Mr. Fenster, my sympathies for you, your mother and your father.
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    A few observations on the construction figures released this morning and related comments on PB.

    Construction and GDP

    The 5.3% annual growth in construction makes it the fastest growing sector in the economy over the past year. In contrast, ONS's Index of Production grew over the same period by 3.2% and its Index of Services by 1.9%. GDP output growth (the consolidation of the indices) grew by 1.5%.

    The weight of each sector within GDP is significant. Services account for 77.8% of the final GDP output figure; Production 15.2%; Construction 6.3%; and, Agriculture only 0.7%.

    The post-recession story is that Services recovered first and most strongly with their current index of 105.1 (Q2 2010=100) showing that services output is now above pre-crisis peaks at all time record levels.

    The weight of the services sector within overall GDP output and its early recovery prevented (just!) the post 2010 declines in Production and Construction from officially registering as a 'double dip' in the headline GDP rate.

    The Construction Index is currently 95.8, so below both 2010 and 2005-2008 levels, but growing faster than all other sectors. Within construction, residential housing (both private and public sector) is driving growth with a 20% increase over the last year.

    Construction Order books are also strong with New Work growing at very strong rates:

    When comparing Q3 2013 with Q3 2012 five out of the six sub-sectors showed growth with the exception of public other new work, which fell 3.9% during the period. There was strong growth in both new housing series where private new housing grew 31.5% and public new housing by 77.6%. Total new housing is now at its highest level since Q4 2007 while public new housing is at its highest level since Q3 1993.

    Total new housing has now shown six consecutive periods of positive growth, despite a quarterly fall in the private new housing series, the first time this has occurred since Q1 1993.

    Private industrial new work continues to show quarter on quarter growth with a 31.8% increase in Q3 2013 when compared with Q2, with seven out of the eleven regions showing growth in this sector.


    The ONS "output" measures of GDP indicate that future revisions of Q3 2013 GDP (due 20 December) may show higher than previously reported GDP for the quarter.

    The overall conclusion is that Construction output and order books are likely to continue to underpin GDP growth through to the 2015 election. In 2014, the Construction Index is likely to surpass 100, its Q2 2010 level and may well exceed pre-crisis levels of output by the time of the general election.

    The drag on GDP through next year is likely to be Production which explains why the Treasury and BoE have announced their intention to stimulate investment in the manufacturing sector as a priority between now and the end of this parliamentary term.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,288
    isam said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The whole point of international sport competition is that it is nations that compete against each other . Hence people who hold influential positions in a team (individuals like Murrey are different except at davis cup) should be from that nation.
    Besides motivation and passion may sometimes be somewhat lacking in a foreigner managing or coaching a team . The foreign England football managers have hardly been a success and looked not bothered at the end

    This is not about the people who represent the country. This is about the resources used to support the team. The England bowling coach does not represent England. The England football manager does not represent England.

    And we should use the best person possible, and the best kit possible, and the best training possible, irrespective of where that comes from.

    (By the way, your 'rich countries' argument is vaguely ridiculous, unless you plan on banning the UK from building velodromes to support our cycling team etc. Rich countries have better facilities and that's OK.)
    god I hate it when people say another argument is ridiculous -anyway procuring the best equipment is obviously an advantage for richer nations so why make the advantage even bigger by allowing hiring of foreign managers /coaches? You can say its all nationalistic to think of a 'natives only' policy but then then international competition is by its nature nationalistic. Otherwise you get club type competition which is fine as an alternative ,so why make them effectively the same by having a free for all at country level?

    I think you are absolutely right.

    As if rich countries don't have enough of an advantage by having best facilities, we then get to buy the coaches f countries who have less money too!

    international sport is by definition, nationalistic, as you rightly say.

    if people want to cheat, and many people on here seem to thinks that's ok, then it's their decision. Would rather lose by playing fair.

    f the rich countries have so much money they should be able to produce decent enough coaches
    I'm not sure you understand what the word 'cheat' means. Specifically, in what way is hiring a foreign coach outside the rules of the competition - either in Cricket or Football?
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    FensterFenster Posts: 2,115

    Mr. Fenster, my sympathies for you, your mother and your father.

    Thank you! But it's okay, it's not really all that sad.

    My father is funnier and enjoying himself more than ever.

    The kids love him. The call him Grampa Bonkers :)

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    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Neil said:

    isam said:

    Neil said:

    isam said:


    But I'm not an extremist, I just believe in not cheating, which is what hiring a foreign coach in international competition is.

    Would hiring a male coach for a women's team also be cheating?
    I don't think so
    But what's the difference? In both cases you are hiring as a coach someone who wouldnt be eligible to compete in the team itself.
    I think there is something in that... It would be better if a woman coached the women...

    are there allowed to be levels in this argument or do we have to be all or nothing?

    Would say a different sex coach of the same nationality is allowable, but not perfect

    The key word is international
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
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    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:


    No, we should use the best Englishman or woman available, and should feel ashamed at hiring anyone without a British passport.

    So, you would rather we lost test matches. Well, it's a view I guess.

    I would rather lose than cheat yes
    Let me fix that for you: "I would rather lose than abide by the same rules as all other teams in the competition."
    "We'll it's a view I guess" and "let me fix that for you" within a couple of hours.... I don't think you need any coaching to win the annoying smugness medal

    But I would rather lose than cheat, even if everyone else was cheating yes

    Standards, morals and principles are not flexible for me
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    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited December 2013
    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The whole point of international sport competition is that it is nations that compete against each other . Hence people who hold influential positions in a team (individuals like Murrey are different except at davis cup) should be from that nation.
    Besides motivation and passion may sometimes be somewhat lacking in a foreigner managing or coaching a team . The foreign England football managers have hardly been a success and looked not bothered at the end

    This is not about the people who represent the country. This is about the resources used to support the team. The England bowling coach does not represent England. The England football manager does not represent England.

    And we should use the best person possible, and the best kit possible, and the best training possible, irrespective of where that comes from.

    (By the way, your 'rich countries' argument is vaguely ridiculous, unless you plan on banning the UK from building velodromes to support our cycling team etc. Rich countries have better facilities and that's OK.)
    god I hate it when people say another argument is ridiculous -anyway procuring the best equipment is obviously an advantage for richer nations so why make the advantage even bigger by allowing hiring of foreign managers /coaches? You can say its all nationalistic to think of a 'natives only' policy but then then international competition is by its nature nationalistic. Otherwise you get club type competition which is fine as an alternative ,so why make them effectively the same by having a free for all at country level?

    I think you are absolutely right.

    As if rich countries don't have enough of an advantage by having best facilities, we then get to buy the coaches f countries who have less money too!

    international sport is by definition, nationalistic, as you rightly say.

    if people want to cheat, and many people on here seem to thinks that's ok, then it's their decision. Would rather lose by playing fair.

    f the rich countries have so much money they should be able to produce decent enough coaches
    I'm not sure you understand what the word 'cheat' means. Specifically, in what way is hiring a foreign coach outside the rules of the competition - either in Cricket or Football?
    Blimey, a third patronising comment!!!

    I know exactly what cheating means, and bending the rules is cheating...

    People that know right from wrong, and live their life by their principles, can self judge and don't let themselves off when they know they are cheating, even if they're not going to get found out
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