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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » We’re going through an odd period in the leader ratings – both

SystemSystem Posts: 12,169
edited May 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » We’re going through an odd period in the leader ratings – both the PM and Starmer are positive across the board

As regular PBers will know  I am a great fan of leader ratings as to pointers to political outcomes. At the last election in December Labour was always doomed while Corbyn struggled to get out of the worst set of ratings that any opposition leader has ever seen.

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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675
    It'll be Boris Johnson, he's got much more to lose.

    Plus for a newish PM Johnson's ratings were dire, just not as dire as Corbyn's.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    Surely the two statements contradict each other as you would expect any disapproval of the handling to correspond with a desire to return to things as they were before pre lockdown.

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    I think a lot of people who didn't like Boris have remembered why the used to like him. His personal ratings won't fall as low as they did previously, there will always be a hardcore who absolutely loathe him because he took the UK out of the EU, but I've noticed among less political friends that they don't think Boris is so bad.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675
    eek said:

    Surely the two statements contradict each other as you would expect any disapproval of the handling to correspond with a desire to return to things as they were before pre lockdown.

    Nah, you could think that the government's handled the situation so badly that we can't risk going out and making it worse so we have to be locked in.
  • ukpaulukpaul Posts: 649
    eek said:

    Surely the two statements contradict each other as you would expect any disapproval of the handling to correspond with a desire to return to things as they were before pre lockdown.

    Not at all, poll after poll shows that people think the government has been too lax. The desire for tougher measures is not decreasing. Personally, I’ve been angered with a couple of supposed changes/relaxations I’ve been made aware of today, both of which put me in greatly increased danger. The phrase ‘over my dead body’ has never been more apt.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898
    Evening all :)

    As I was saying yesterday evening, it's easy for people to conclude the number of tests equals the number of people being tested and this doesn't help:



    Now I'm not going to accuse Sky News of peddling a pro-Government line but this misinformation doesn't help attempts to hold the Government to account.

    Those who don't follow the news might actually believe 105,937 people were tested but we know that's not true - it's a pity the broadcast media don't check.
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100
    eek said:

    Surely the two statements contradict each other as you would expect any disapproval of the handling to correspond with a desire to return to things as they were before pre lockdown.

    You did notice he works for the Observer?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,878
    FPT
    kinabalu said:

    @Malmesbury @Pagan2

    I get what you're saying. And kudos for seeking out the best sources for what interests you.

    But here's my point in a nutshell -

    "It must be true. It was in the paper."

    "Never believe anything you read in the press."

    Both the above sentiments are misguided and dangerous - ESPECIALLY the second one.

    Sorry don't agree with your statement on the second one the MSM is so erroneous on the whole that not believing anything they say probably puts you ahead of the curve.

    If you had said never believe anything in the MSM until you verify it from a reputable source I might agree that its better.

    I don't read papers, I don't watch tv news. I believe myself highly informed. I have been in many situations where work colleagues have parroted out some tosh served up by the MSM and said actually that is totally wrong. Try checking out here and here for the actual story.

    The MSM is frankly almost as bad as all those sites you decry like fox news and breitbart and novara media and skawkbox. Worse in many ways as they manage to hide their bias, and errors behind a veneer of reputability. One which thankfully they are rapidly losing
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    As I was saying yesterday evening, it's easy for people to conclude the number of tests equals the number of people being tested and this doesn't help:



    Now I'm not going to accuse Sky News of peddling a pro-Government line but this misinformation doesn't help attempts to hold the Government to account.

    Those who don't follow the news might actually believe 105,937 people were tested but we know that's not true - it's a pity the broadcast media don't check.

    I think we were told on the last thread that fact checking major media is bullying.

    Don't make Rupert Murdoch cry! (yes, I know).
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    eek said:

    Surely the two statements contradict each other as you would expect any disapproval of the handling to correspond with a desire to return to things as they were before pre lockdown.

    Lockdown is a blunt instrument and an indicator that you haven't (yet) got control over the epidemic. You want your time in lockdown to be as short as possible as you move to other more targeted ways of controlling the epidemic.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    There’s counter productive, then really foolish, then this.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898
    ukpaul said:


    Not at all, poll after poll shows that people think the government has been too lax. The desire for tougher measures is not decreasing. Personally, I’ve been angered with a couple of supposed changes/relaxations I’ve been made aware of today, both of which put me in greatly increased danger. The phrase ‘over my dead body’ has never been more apt.

    I'm in the "high risk" category and frankly I'm scared to go out and will be until I see much more evidence this virus is as close as it can be to being eradicated. I live in disease central, or Newham as it is also called, where I am apparently surrounded by the dead and the undead (no change there).

    We have seen big queues to access civic amenity sites and I'm sure as soon as McDonald's reopens they will be queuing round the block for their Big Mac fix.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    Andrew Cuomo
    @NYGovCuomo
    NYC overall: 19.9% positive for antibodies.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    DavidL said:

    There’s counter productive, then really foolish, then this.
    President Xi isn't exactly very good at this, is he?

    Putin knocks him into a hat on professional smoke & mirrors.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    MaxPB said:

    I think a lot of people who didn't like Boris have remembered why the used to like him. His personal ratings won't fall as low as they did previously, there will always be a hardcore who absolutely loathe him because he took the UK out of the EU, but I've noticed among less political friends that they don't think Boris is so bad.

    He needs to navigate the next year and Brexit first.

    My view is there won't be a deal. There will be in the late 2020s but we'll have 4-5 years of no deal first.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    NYC overall: 19.9% positive for antibodies.

    Bronx: 27.6%
    Brooklyn: 19.2%
    Manhattan: 17.3%
    Queens: 18.4%
    Staten Island: 19.2%
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119

    NYC overall: 19.9% positive for antibodies.

    Bronx: 27.6%
    Brooklyn: 19.2%
    Manhattan: 17.3%
    Queens: 18.4%
    Staten Island: 19.2%

    Going for herd immunity.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862

    DavidL said:

    There’s counter productive, then really foolish, then this.
    President Xi isn't exactly very good at this, is he?

    Putin knocks him into a hat on professional smoke & mirrors.
    One likes to bluff. The other thinks he doesn’t need to. Not sure either of them have got it right.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited May 2020
    Crikey look at the cliff Ed Miliband’s ratings fell off after a few months as LotO

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leadership_approval_opinion_polling_for_the_2015_United_Kingdom_general_election

    I liked old Ed, I wish he’d been more successful. One of the highlights of the PB week back in the first half of the decade was poor departed Plato’s on the spot assessment of how he was doing at PMQs/how he looked etc... always horrendously badly! She might as well have written it the night before...

    Good to see people have stepped into her famous shoes and do the same for Boris... a fitting tribute
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited May 2020

    DavidL said:

    There’s counter productive, then really foolish, then this.
    President Xi isn't exactly very good at this, is he?

    Putin knocks him into a hat on professional smoke & mirrors.
    China's leaders care as much about public opinion in the West as Western leaders care about Chinese public opinion, ie zero. This is entirely aimed at local opinion. But you're right they aren't good at this stuff.

    Edit it isn't really even about public opinion in China. It's more a corporate initiative. China has a very corporate setup.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Those missing sport, i have to say the iRacing is really quite good...in fact probably better than the real thing as all these pro drivers appear to push it too hard and cause massive pile-ups.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898

    MaxPB said:

    I think a lot of people who didn't like Boris have remembered why the used to like him. His personal ratings won't fall as low as they did previously, there will always be a hardcore who absolutely loathe him because he took the UK out of the EU, but I've noticed among less political friends that they don't think Boris is so bad.

    He needs to navigate the next year and Brexit first.

    My view is there won't be a deal. There will be in the late 2020s but we'll have 4-5 years of no deal first.
    A lot will depend on the economic pain ahead and how the Government chooses either to deal with it or keep borrowing and hope it will go away. The final Services PMI for April released on Tuesday morning is going to be grim and it may well be the May figure won't be much better.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    NYC overall: 19.9% positive for antibodies.

    Bronx: 27.6%
    Brooklyn: 19.2%
    Manhattan: 17.3%
    Queens: 18.4%
    Staten Island: 19.2%

    Going for herd immunity.
    Well half way there in some areas by the look of it.

    I suspect our issue with higher death rate and deprivation is also the case in many Countries
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    Pagan2 said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    @Malmesbury @Pagan2

    I get what you're saying. And kudos for seeking out the best sources for what interests you.

    But here's my point in a nutshell -

    "It must be true. It was in the paper."

    "Never believe anything you read in the press."

    Both the above sentiments are misguided and dangerous - ESPECIALLY the second one.

    Sorry don't agree with your statement on the second one the MSM is so erroneous on the whole that not believing anything they say probably puts you ahead of the curve.

    If you had said never believe anything in the MSM until you verify it from a reputable source I might agree that its better.

    I don't read papers, I don't watch tv news. I believe myself highly informed. I have been in many situations where work colleagues have parroted out some tosh served up by the MSM and said actually that is totally wrong. Try checking out here and here for the actual story.

    The MSM is frankly almost as bad as all those sites you decry like fox news and breitbart and novara media and skawkbox. Worse in many ways as they manage to hide their bias, and errors behind a veneer of reputability. One which thankfully they are rapidly losing
    "It must be true. It was in the paper."
    "Never believe anything you read in the press."

    Both are wrong. Apply critical thinking to all information presented to you. Does it pass a basic smell test? Are actual sources quoted? Does it violate the laws of physics?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited May 2020
    FTPT
    ydoethur said:

    Alistair said:

    Fishing said:

    We've reached the Freedom Fries stage. Good to have the marker.

    I just want China to cede back control of Hong Kong, for perpetuity.
    Why? We had it in perpetuity before. Our Foreign Office would just find a way to cede it back.
    We didn't, we had it on a 99 year leasehold, I want it back as a freehold.
    We had the island in perpetuity, the main land territory was on the 99 year lease hold.

    We handed back the island even though it was ours forever because Deng Xioapeng said he would take it by force if we didn’t and there was feck all we could do to stop him.
    FTFY.
    I wasn't being entirely serious. Even without the threat of a land invasion, without the New Territories Hong Kong was obviously totally unviable as a colonial possession.

    But the important thing was that TSE was technically incorrect and you have to take these opportunities when they arise.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205

    NYC overall: 19.9% positive for antibodies.

    Bronx: 27.6%
    Brooklyn: 19.2%
    Manhattan: 17.3%
    Queens: 18.4%
    Staten Island: 19.2%

    Going for herd immunity.
    You're likely to get it down the grocery store at the prevalence those sorts of levels implies I think ?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    FF43 said:

    DavidL said:

    There’s counter productive, then really foolish, then this.
    President Xi isn't exactly very good at this, is he?

    Putin knocks him into a hat on professional smoke & mirrors.
    China's leaders care as much about public opinion in the West as Western leaders care about Chinese public opinion, ie zero. This is entirely aimed at local opinion. But you're right they aren't good at this stuff.

    Edit it isn't really even about public opinion in China. It's more a corporate initiative. China has a very corporate setup.
    It isn't about public opinion in China because Chinese leaders forget that because they can control the internet and media in China so straightforwardly they can also control it outside as well.

    It's a mixture of ignorance, arrogance and complacency but they seem determined to keep digging.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,250

    DavidL said:

    There’s counter productive, then really foolish, then this.
    President Xi isn't exactly very good at this, is he?

    Putin knocks him into a hat on professional smoke & mirrors.
    But he has good name recognition in the Scrabble community.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Apparently Joe Wicks cant do the PE classes next week, so his wife is standing in....i reckon a lot of middle aged ladies have just become rather less keen to get the little germ spreaders following along, where as the dad's all of a sudden have become a lot more interested in this whole PE at home lark.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    NYC overall: 19.9% positive for antibodies.

    Bronx: 27.6%
    Brooklyn: 19.2%
    Manhattan: 17.3%
    Queens: 18.4%
    Staten Island: 19.2%

    Going for herd immunity.

    13,365 dead currently I think.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729
    eek said:

    Surely the two statements contradict each other as you would expect any disapproval of the handling to correspond with a desire to return to things as they were before pre lockdown.

    Depends how the questions were asked..
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    There’s counter productive, then really foolish, then this.
    President Xi isn't exactly very good at this, is he?

    Putin knocks him into a hat on professional smoke & mirrors.
    One likes to bluff. The other thinks he doesn’t need to. Not sure either of them have got it right.
    Some people still believe the Crimeans fairly voted for union with Russia, and also that Eastern Ukrainians genuinely want to join.

    Putin is a master of politics.

    This snippet of President Xi in 2020 should put the shivers down anyone who's "blasé" about China assuming a global leadership role by natural economic drift in 10-20 years time.

    It's chilling my blood.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601

    FF43 said:

    DavidL said:

    There’s counter productive, then really foolish, then this.
    President Xi isn't exactly very good at this, is he?

    Putin knocks him into a hat on professional smoke & mirrors.
    China's leaders care as much about public opinion in the West as Western leaders care about Chinese public opinion, ie zero. This is entirely aimed at local opinion. But you're right they aren't good at this stuff.

    Edit it isn't really even about public opinion in China. It's more a corporate initiative. China has a very corporate setup.
    It isn't about public opinion in China because Chinese leaders forget that because they can control the internet and media in China so straightforwardly they can also control it outside as well.

    It's a mixture of ignorance, arrogance and complacency but they seem determined to keep digging.
    It's a shame because around 2005 China was heading in the right direction towards a more open society.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729
    Oops replied to the wrong comment. I meant approval etc is down to how the question was asked ..who was mentioned first etc.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    Alistair said:

    NYC overall: 19.9% positive for antibodies.

    Bronx: 27.6%
    Brooklyn: 19.2%
    Manhattan: 17.3%
    Queens: 18.4%
    Staten Island: 19.2%

    Going for herd immunity.

    13,365 dead currently I think.
    Implies a death rate of 2%.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    I'm not sure history is going to look favourably on that picture of President Xi and David Cameron having a pint together in his local.

    That'll be viewed as very Tea with Mussolini one day.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    NYC overall: 19.9% positive for antibodies.

    Bronx: 27.6%
    Brooklyn: 19.2%
    Manhattan: 17.3%
    Queens: 18.4%
    Staten Island: 19.2%

    Going for herd immunity.

    13,365 dead currently I think.
    Implies a death rate of 2%.
    Health system crashed.
  • ABZABZ Posts: 441

    NYC overall: 19.9% positive for antibodies.

    Bronx: 27.6%
    Brooklyn: 19.2%
    Manhattan: 17.3%
    Queens: 18.4%
    Staten Island: 19.2%

    Going for herd immunity.
    Well half way there in some areas by the look of it.

    I suspect our issue with higher death rate and deprivation is also the case in many Countries
    Also takes time for antibodies to be expressed at a level detectable by the tests, so probably still an underestimate.
  • ABZABZ Posts: 441
    Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    NYC overall: 19.9% positive for antibodies.

    Bronx: 27.6%
    Brooklyn: 19.2%
    Manhattan: 17.3%
    Queens: 18.4%
    Staten Island: 19.2%

    Going for herd immunity.

    13,365 dead currently I think.
    Implies a death rate of 2%.
    Not sure I understand... if 20% have been infected (2 million people) that would give an infection mortality rate of ~0.6%
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    ABZ said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    NYC overall: 19.9% positive for antibodies.

    Bronx: 27.6%
    Brooklyn: 19.2%
    Manhattan: 17.3%
    Queens: 18.4%
    Staten Island: 19.2%

    Going for herd immunity.

    13,365 dead currently I think.
    Implies a death rate of 2%.
    Not sure I understand... if 20% have been infected (2 million people) that would give an infection mortality rate of ~0.6%
    Yes sorry I had an erroneous estimate of the population of NYC.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    What are we saying population of NYC? Because it depends were you count as NYC, anywhere from 10 to 20 million.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    Theodore Dalrymple's latest piece.

    "Did the epidemic reveal anything about our condition or situation that we did not know before or could not have known if we had thought about it? It is so obvious that it amounts to a cliché that not only life itself, but the economy as we have constructed, hangs by a thread: and yet the speed with which so much unravelled came as a surprise. Untune that string, said Shakespeare in a different context (he was speaking of social hierarchy, whereas we are talking of supply chains and economic interdependence), and hark what discord follows! Yet, if we had stopped to think of it, we might have realised how unwise it was, strategically, to outsource the production of almost everything to distant and not necessarily benevolently-disposed foreign powers.

    And yet our own habits—namely, spending more than we earned for years and years, indeed for decades—required precisely this. In order to maintain the illusion of solvency, money had to be created and interest rates kept low; but to avoid the appearance, though not the reality, of inflation, prices (except for property and financial assets) had to be kept low. The only way to do this was to outsource the manufacture of goods to low-cost economies, and voilà! with the able assistance of the coronavirus, the economic situation developed that we are in today."

    https://www.newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm?frm=190067&sec_id=190067
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    Andy_JS said:

    FF43 said:

    DavidL said:

    There’s counter productive, then really foolish, then this.
    President Xi isn't exactly very good at this, is he?

    Putin knocks him into a hat on professional smoke & mirrors.
    China's leaders care as much about public opinion in the West as Western leaders care about Chinese public opinion, ie zero. This is entirely aimed at local opinion. But you're right they aren't good at this stuff.

    Edit it isn't really even about public opinion in China. It's more a corporate initiative. China has a very corporate setup.
    It isn't about public opinion in China because Chinese leaders forget that because they can control the internet and media in China so straightforwardly they can also control it outside as well.

    It's a mixture of ignorance, arrogance and complacency but they seem determined to keep digging.
    It's a shame because around 2005 China was heading in the right direction towards a more open society.
    Yes, they've gone completely in the wrong direction.

    It may be linked to a lack of Western pressure.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,708

    FF43 said:

    DavidL said:

    There’s counter productive, then really foolish, then this.
    President Xi isn't exactly very good at this, is he?

    Putin knocks him into a hat on professional smoke & mirrors.
    China's leaders care as much about public opinion in the West as Western leaders care about Chinese public opinion, ie zero. This is entirely aimed at local opinion. But you're right they aren't good at this stuff.

    Edit it isn't really even about public opinion in China. It's more a corporate initiative. China has a very corporate setup.
    It isn't about public opinion in China because Chinese leaders forget that because they can control the internet and media in China so straightforwardly they can also control it outside as well.

    It's a mixture of ignorance, arrogance and complacency but they seem determined to keep digging.
    We're not "dutiful citizens".

    https://twitter.com/nfergus/status/1256609749149220864
    https://twitter.com/nfergus/status/1256609752399835136
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908

    NYC overall: 19.9% positive for antibodies.

    Bronx: 27.6%
    Brooklyn: 19.2%
    Manhattan: 17.3%
    Queens: 18.4%
    Staten Island: 19.2%

    IFR of 0.8% on those current figures.

    Taking that IFR and applying it to the UK with current figures would suggest that 3.5 million have been infected across the country, and over 600,000 in London alone. Officially it's about 182,000 across the country. Now admittedly there are deaths to come, and different circumstances and populations between New York City and London and the UK, but a rough estimate of there being an order of magnitude more cases than is official does seem highly likely.
  • fox327fox327 Posts: 370
    alterego said:

    eek said:

    Surely the two statements contradict each other as you would expect any disapproval of the handling to correspond with a desire to return to things as they were before pre lockdown.

    You did notice he works for the Observer?
    I went round my local Morrison's today. It was as crowded as on a normal day. I am sitting here listening to loud music from nearby flats, sometimes I can hear people doing loud exercises. It used to be very quiet all the time. Sure some people don't want the lockdown to end and others do. The government will need to have the wisdom of Solomon to decide what to do.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908
    I heard a British doctor on the radio the other day who works in China, he seemed unduly impressed by the benefits of authoritarianism. I hope he's on a watch list now.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,775
    glw said:

    NYC overall: 19.9% positive for antibodies.

    Bronx: 27.6%
    Brooklyn: 19.2%
    Manhattan: 17.3%
    Queens: 18.4%
    Staten Island: 19.2%

    IFR of 0.8% on those current figures.

    Taking that IFR and applying it to the UK with current figures would suggest that 3.5 million have been infected across the country, and over 600,000 in London alone. Officially it's about 182,000 across the country. Now admittedly there are deaths to come, and different circumstances and populations between New York City and London and the UK, but a rough estimate of there being an order of magnitude more cases than is official does seem highly likely.
    Very good news if such high figures are correct. I actually think that the truth may be higher still, but just a hunch.

    If only one could trust the test!

    (Personally I had some sort of bug some weeks ago - it wasn't nice, but wasn't that bad either. I live in fairly central London)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    The Isolation Song Contest is great fun, for those watching
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited May 2020
    Swden's Arcgis page has updated and I am now officially 100% certainly [*] calling their new ICU cases flat and no longer falling.


    [*] Actually, no clue.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    glw said:

    I heard a British doctor on the radio the other day who works in China, he seemed unduly impressed by the benefits of authoritarianism. I hope he's on a watch list now.
    Quite a few people, high in technical professions, subscribe to ideas that resemble Functionalism in Robert Heinlein's story The Roads Must Roll - a technocracy run by The Right People. They always assume that they will be running it...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Masks will be compulsory on public transport in Spain from Monday as the country moves to gradually relax its tough lockdown.

    I hope the UK government have considered how they are going to get millions of masks every week for the public.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908

    glw said:

    I heard a British doctor on the radio the other day who works in China, he seemed unduly impressed by the benefits of authoritarianism. I hope he's on a watch list now.
    Quite a few people, high in technical professions, subscribe to ideas that resemble Functionalism in Robert Heinlein's story The Roads Must Roll - a technocracy run by The Right People. They always assume that they will be running it...
    Yeah they never think they might be the ones in the camps.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,264
    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    ydoethur said:

    Alistair said:

    Fishing said:

    We've reached the Freedom Fries stage. Good to have the marker.

    I just want China to cede back control of Hong Kong, for perpetuity.
    Why? We had it in perpetuity before. Our Foreign Office would just find a way to cede it back.
    We didn't, we had it on a 99 year leasehold, I want it back as a freehold.
    We had the island in perpetuity, the main land territory was on the 99 year lease hold.

    We handed back the island even though it was ours forever because Deng Xioapeng said he would take it by force if we didn’t and there was feck all we could do to stop him.
    FTFY.
    I wasn't being entirely serious. Even without the threat of a land invasion, without the New Territories Hong Kong was obviously totally unviable as a colonial possession.

    But the important thing was that TSE was technically incorrect and you have to take these opportunities when they arise.
    Taking the ferry from HK Island to Kowloon I was briefly aware of stepping onto a piece of land with Calais at the other end.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,775
    fox327 said:


    alterego said:

    eek said:

    Surely the two statements contradict each other as you would expect any disapproval of the handling to correspond with a desire to return to things as they were before pre lockdown.

    You did notice he works for the Observer?
    I went round my local Morrison's today. It was as crowded as on a normal day. I am sitting here listening to loud music from nearby flats, sometimes I can hear people doing loud exercises. It used to be very quiet all the time. Sure some people don't want the lockdown to end and others do. The government will need to have the wisdom of Solomon to decide what to do.
    I'm puzzled as to where all the cars are. Obviously there are almost none on the streets, but what baffles me is that lots of resident's parking seems free too. In London this is. Somewhere there must be more cars than usual!

    People being noisy is a great crime. I'm so happy and lucky that my neighbours are quiet.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,620


    Andrew Cuomo
    @NYGovCuomo
    NYC overall: 19.9% positive for antibodies.

    Have they got an antibody test in the USA ?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370

    FF43 said:

    DavidL said:

    There’s counter productive, then really foolish, then this.
    President Xi isn't exactly very good at this, is he?

    Putin knocks him into a hat on professional smoke & mirrors.
    China's leaders care as much about public opinion in the West as Western leaders care about Chinese public opinion, ie zero. This is entirely aimed at local opinion. But you're right they aren't good at this stuff.

    Edit it isn't really even about public opinion in China. It's more a corporate initiative. China has a very corporate setup.
    It isn't about public opinion in China because Chinese leaders forget that because they can control the internet and media in China so straightforwardly they can also control it outside as well.

    It's a mixture of ignorance, arrogance and complacency but they seem determined to keep digging.
    We're not "dutiful citizens".

    https://twitter.com/nfergus/status/1256609749149220864
    https://twitter.com/nfergus/status/1256609752399835136
    "Hurrah for the Black Shirts! Mussolini makes the trains run on time!"

    It's an old tune. In ancient Athens, Laconophilia was popular among certain groups of young men. Hence the Thirty and the real reason that Socrates was executed.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487

    FF43 said:

    DavidL said:

    There’s counter productive, then really foolish, then this.
    President Xi isn't exactly very good at this, is he?

    Putin knocks him into a hat on professional smoke & mirrors.
    China's leaders care as much about public opinion in the West as Western leaders care about Chinese public opinion, ie zero. This is entirely aimed at local opinion. But you're right they aren't good at this stuff.

    Edit it isn't really even about public opinion in China. It's more a corporate initiative. China has a very corporate setup.
    It isn't about public opinion in China because Chinese leaders forget that because they can control the internet and media in China so straightforwardly they can also control it outside as well.

    It's a mixture of ignorance, arrogance and complacency but they seem determined to keep digging.
    We're not "dutiful citizens".

    https://twitter.com/nfergus/status/1256609749149220864
    https://twitter.com/nfergus/status/1256609752399835136
    He's a Dean at Shandong university.

    If I were five eyes I'd be taking a very close look at what's been going into his bank account.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119


    Andrew Cuomo
    @NYGovCuomo
    NYC overall: 19.9% positive for antibodies.

    Have they got an antibody test in the USA ?
    We have antibody tests and running similar sampling...but they need to be lab processed. Nobody has accurate home antibody testing kits that can be produced at scale.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,264
    edited May 2020

    Masks will be compulsory on public transport in Spain from Monday as the country moves to gradually relax its tough lockdown.

    I hope the UK government have considered how they are going to get millions of masks every week for the public.

    Surely you mean millions of masks every hour? Won't you need a clean one to go home and two more the next day? Or could it just be even more virtue signalling?
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,816
    edited May 2020

    Masks will be compulsory on public transport in Spain from Monday as the country moves to gradually relax its tough lockdown.

    I hope the UK government have considered how they are going to get millions of masks every week for the public.

    My NHS sister is sceptical about public masks in that she says they are fine if they are used right but 90% of the public will not use them right and could increase infection. Things like keep adjusting them then fingering surfaces , re-using them , leaving them on surfaces , even constantly lowering them to talk .She thinks far better off just not bothering
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited May 2020
    Omnium said:

    glw said:

    NYC overall: 19.9% positive for antibodies.

    Bronx: 27.6%
    Brooklyn: 19.2%
    Manhattan: 17.3%
    Queens: 18.4%
    Staten Island: 19.2%

    IFR of 0.8% on those current figures.

    Taking that IFR and applying it to the UK with current figures would suggest that 3.5 million have been infected across the country, and over 600,000 in London alone. Officially it's about 182,000 across the country. Now admittedly there are deaths to come, and different circumstances and populations between New York City and London and the UK, but a rough estimate of there being an order of magnitude more cases than is official does seem highly likely.
    Very good news if such high figures are correct. I actually think that the truth may be higher still, but just a hunch.

    If only one could trust the test!

    (Personally I had some sort of bug some weeks ago - it wasn't nice, but wasn't that bad either. I live in fairly central London)
    Why is it good news? It means this epidemic has seen less than one tenth of expected deaths before it runs its course.

    (Edited)
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908


    Andrew Cuomo
    @NYGovCuomo
    NYC overall: 19.9% positive for antibodies.

    Have they got an antibody test in the USA ?
    There are lots of rubbish antibody tests that are not much use for testing individuals, but have some merit for testing populations (assuming you have figured out precisely how crap they are in order to adjust your figures).
  • dodradedodrade Posts: 597

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    There’s counter productive, then really foolish, then this.
    President Xi isn't exactly very good at this, is he?

    Putin knocks him into a hat on professional smoke & mirrors.
    One likes to bluff. The other thinks he doesn’t need to. Not sure either of them have got it right.
    Some people still believe the Crimeans fairly voted for union with Russia, and also that Eastern Ukrainians genuinely want to join.
    I very much doubt any future Russian government will ever relinquish Crimea, its no more reversible than India's annexation of Goa.

    Apparently Joe Wicks cant do the PE classes next week, so his wife is standing in....i reckon a lot of middle aged ladies have just become rather less keen to get the little germ spreaders following along, where as the dad's all of a sudden have become a lot more interested in this whole PE at home lark.

    Isn't his wife a Page 3 girl?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    fox327 said:


    alterego said:

    eek said:

    Surely the two statements contradict each other as you would expect any disapproval of the handling to correspond with a desire to return to things as they were before pre lockdown.

    You did notice he works for the Observer?
    I went round my local Morrison's today. It was as crowded as on a normal day. I am sitting here listening to loud music from nearby flats, sometimes I can hear people doing loud exercises. It used to be very quiet all the time. Sure some people don't want the lockdown to end and others do. The government will need to have the wisdom of Solomon to decide what to do.
    The people who don't want the lockdown to end tend also to be the ones feverishly writing to their MPs begging for garden centres and tips to reopen as exceptions.

    In other words, they tend to be of a type.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119

    Masks will be compulsory on public transport in Spain from Monday as the country moves to gradually relax its tough lockdown.

    I hope the UK government have considered how they are going to get millions of masks every week for the public.

    Surely you mean millions of masks every hour? Won't you need a clean one to go home and two more the next day? Or could it just be even more virtue signalling?
    South Korea, you get two a week. Germany say by August should be able to produce about one a week for everybody.

    Also depends what type of mask.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,775
    FF43 said:

    Omnium said:

    glw said:

    NYC overall: 19.9% positive for antibodies.

    Bronx: 27.6%
    Brooklyn: 19.2%
    Manhattan: 17.3%
    Queens: 18.4%
    Staten Island: 19.2%

    IFR of 0.8% on those current figures.

    Taking that IFR and applying it to the UK with current figures would suggest that 3.5 million have been infected across the country, and over 600,000 in London alone. Officially it's about 182,000 across the country. Now admittedly there are deaths to come, and different circumstances and populations between New York City and London and the UK, but a rough estimate of there being an order of magnitude more cases than is official does seem highly likely.
    Very good news if such high figures are correct. I actually think that the truth may be higher still, but just a hunch.

    If only one could trust the test!

    (Personally I had some sort of bug some weeks ago - it wasn't nice, but wasn't that bad either. I live in fairly central London)
    Why is it good news? It means this epidemic has seen less than one tenth of expected deaths in London before it runs its course and a lot less than one tenth of deaths elsewhere.
    I think you answered your own question.

    If everybody's had it and mostly recovered it's great.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    dodrade said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    There’s counter productive, then really foolish, then this.
    President Xi isn't exactly very good at this, is he?

    Putin knocks him into a hat on professional smoke & mirrors.
    One likes to bluff. The other thinks he doesn’t need to. Not sure either of them have got it right.
    Some people still believe the Crimeans fairly voted for union with Russia, and also that Eastern Ukrainians genuinely want to join.
    I very much doubt any future Russian government will ever relinquish Crimea, its no more reversible than India's annexation of Goa.

    Apparently Joe Wicks cant do the PE classes next week, so his wife is standing in....i reckon a lot of middle aged ladies have just become rather less keen to get the little germ spreaders following along, where as the dad's all of a sudden have become a lot more interested in this whole PE at home lark.

    Isn't his wife a Page 3 girl?
    So I'm told.....
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837

    Masks will be compulsory on public transport in Spain from Monday as the country moves to gradually relax its tough lockdown.

    I hope the UK government have considered how they are going to get millions of masks every week for the public.

    My NHS sister is sceptical about public masks in that she says they are fine if they are used right but 90% of the public will not use them right and could increase infection. Things like keep adjusting them then fingering surfaces , re-using them , leaving them on surfaces , even constantly lowering them to talk .She thinks far better off just not bothering
    You see all those already with the people who are actually keen on wearing them, imagine what it will be like with those who think its a waste of time but are forced to.....
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,264

    Masks will be compulsory on public transport in Spain from Monday as the country moves to gradually relax its tough lockdown.

    I hope the UK government have considered how they are going to get millions of masks every week for the public.

    Surely you mean millions of masks every hour? Won't you need a clean one to go home and two more the next day? Or could it just be even more virtue signalling?
    South Korea, you get two a week. Germany say by August should be able to produce about one a week for everybody.

    Also depends what type of mask.
    Germany one a week? Like underpants?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119

    Masks will be compulsory on public transport in Spain from Monday as the country moves to gradually relax its tough lockdown.

    I hope the UK government have considered how they are going to get millions of masks every week for the public.

    Surely you mean millions of masks every hour? Won't you need a clean one to go home and two more the next day? Or could it just be even more virtue signalling?
    South Korea, you get two a week. Germany say by August should be able to produce about one a week for everybody.

    Also depends what type of mask.
    Germany one a week? Like underpants?
    I am sure Germany would make the N95 equivalent of underpants.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    edited May 2020

    I'm not sure history is going to look favourably on that picture of President Xi and David Cameron having a pint together in his local.

    That'll be viewed as very Tea with Mussolini one day.

    Assume ole Brenda gets the standard Ceaușescu pardon.

    'I was only obeying orders given by my government.'
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487

    I'm not sure history is going to look favourably on that picture of President Xi and David Cameron having a pint together in his local.

    That'll be viewed as very Tea with Mussolini one day.

    Assume ole Brenda gets the standard Ceaușescu pardon.

    'I was only obeying orders given by my government.'
    Well, of course.

    She doesn't make policy. She does what the Government ask.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675

    I'm not sure history is going to look favourably on that picture of President Xi and David Cameron having a pint together in his local.

    That'll be viewed as very Tea with Mussolini one day.

    Assume ole Brenda gets the standard Ceaușescu pardon.

    'I was only obeying orders given by my government.'
    She’s met with some truly nasty dudes, Bob Mugabe, Trump, and Prince Andrew.

    A gypsy must have put a curse on Brenda.

  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    ..
    Omnium said:

    FF43 said:

    Omnium said:

    glw said:

    NYC overall: 19.9% positive for antibodies.

    Bronx: 27.6%
    Brooklyn: 19.2%
    Manhattan: 17.3%
    Queens: 18.4%
    Staten Island: 19.2%

    IFR of 0.8% on those current figures.

    Taking that IFR and applying it to the UK with current figures would suggest that 3.5 million have been infected across the country, and over 600,000 in London alone. Officially it's about 182,000 across the country. Now admittedly there are deaths to come, and different circumstances and populations between New York City and London and the UK, but a rough estimate of there being an order of magnitude more cases than is official does seem highly likely.
    Very good news if such high figures are correct. I actually think that the truth may be higher still, but just a hunch.

    If only one could trust the test!

    (Personally I had some sort of bug some weeks ago - it wasn't nice, but wasn't that bad either. I live in fairly central London)
    Why is it good news? It means this epidemic has seen less than one tenth of expected deaths in London before it runs its course and a lot less than one tenth of deaths elsewhere.
    I think you answered your own question.

    If everybody's had it and mostly recovered it's great.
    Less one tenth have had it. We're looking at a potential death toll in the hundreds of thousands in the UK, on a par with the whole of WW2. Doesn't that bother you?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,775
    eadric said:

    Omnium said:

    fox327 said:


    alterego said:

    eek said:

    Surely the two statements contradict each other as you would expect any disapproval of the handling to correspond with a desire to return to things as they were before pre lockdown.

    You did notice he works for the Observer?
    I went round my local Morrison's today. It was as crowded as on a normal day. I am sitting here listening to loud music from nearby flats, sometimes I can hear people doing loud exercises. It used to be very quiet all the time. Sure some people don't want the lockdown to end and others do. The government will need to have the wisdom of Solomon to decide what to do.
    I'm puzzled as to where all the cars are. Obviously there are almost none on the streets, but what baffles me is that lots of resident's parking seems free too. In London this is. Somewhere there must be more cars than usual!

    People being noisy is a great crime. I'm so happy and lucky that my neighbours are quiet.
    "Somewhere there must be more cars than usual"

    Penarth, Wales
    Lots and lots?

    I live in Maida Vale, and there is a noticeable amount of extra space - no double parking on a sunday morning! In Bayswater (just down the road) there are whole bays that are almost empty.

    I guess we'll have to forgive you for your parked car as it allows you to report!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370

    FF43 said:

    DavidL said:

    There’s counter productive, then really foolish, then this.
    President Xi isn't exactly very good at this, is he?

    Putin knocks him into a hat on professional smoke & mirrors.
    China's leaders care as much about public opinion in the West as Western leaders care about Chinese public opinion, ie zero. This is entirely aimed at local opinion. But you're right they aren't good at this stuff.

    Edit it isn't really even about public opinion in China. It's more a corporate initiative. China has a very corporate setup.
    It isn't about public opinion in China because Chinese leaders forget that because they can control the internet and media in China so straightforwardly they can also control it outside as well.

    It's a mixture of ignorance, arrogance and complacency but they seem determined to keep digging.
    We're not "dutiful citizens".

    https://twitter.com/nfergus/status/1256609749149220864
    https://twitter.com/nfergus/status/1256609752399835136
    He's a Dean at Shandong university.

    If I were five eyes I'd be taking a very close look at what's been going into his bank account.
    What was it that was said about the Qaddafi PhD thing at LSE - "I hope it was the money. It would be worse to think they actually believed this."
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127
    eadric said:

    Masks will be compulsory on public transport in Spain from Monday as the country moves to gradually relax its tough lockdown.

    I hope the UK government have considered how they are going to get millions of masks every week for the public.

    My NHS sister is sceptical about public masks in that she says they are fine if they are used right but 90% of the public will not use them right and could increase infection. Things like keep adjusting them then fingering surfaces , re-using them , leaving them on surfaces , even constantly lowering them to talk .She thinks far better off just not bothering
    You see all those already with the people who are actually keen on wearing them, imagine what it will be like with those who think its a waste of time but are forced to.....
    For FUCK'S SAKE

    Masks and face coverings have some basic, meagre utility in preventing YOU THE WEARER being infected

    However, almost any face covering, however stupid you are, is notably effective in preventing YOU THE WEARER infecting others, with your breathing, talking, panting, sneezing and coughing

    That is the point. You wear them to protect OTHERS; they wear them to protect YOU

    Asian societies have passed this basic IQ test. It seems we are determined to fail
    Someone with a mask on literally walked in to me today. I saw 7 in village where my shop is. 6/7 were filthy, and had clearly been worn and handled day after day.

    They give the wearer too much false sense of security. I think it is very unlikely that it will ever be policy to wear them here.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837

    Masks will be compulsory on public transport in Spain from Monday as the country moves to gradually relax its tough lockdown.

    I hope the UK government have considered how they are going to get millions of masks every week for the public.

    Surely you mean millions of masks every hour? Won't you need a clean one to go home and two more the next day? Or could it just be even more virtue signalling?
    I think the idea is the general public use re-usable masks not disposable ones.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    I'm not sure history is going to look favourably on that picture of President Xi and David Cameron having a pint together in his local.

    That'll be viewed as very Tea with Mussolini one day.

    I think the talk of reparations is stupid, but Sun Jihai should be removed from our national football hall of fame.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    eadric said:

    Masks will be compulsory on public transport in Spain from Monday as the country moves to gradually relax its tough lockdown.

    I hope the UK government have considered how they are going to get millions of masks every week for the public.

    My NHS sister is sceptical about public masks in that she says they are fine if they are used right but 90% of the public will not use them right and could increase infection. Things like keep adjusting them then fingering surfaces , re-using them , leaving them on surfaces , even constantly lowering them to talk .She thinks far better off just not bothering
    You see all those already with the people who are actually keen on wearing them, imagine what it will be like with those who think its a waste of time but are forced to.....
    For FUCK'S SAKE

    Masks and face coverings have some basic, meagre utility in preventing YOU THE WEARER being infected

    However, almost any face covering, however stupid you are, is notably effective in preventing YOU THE WEARER infecting others, with your breathing, talking, panting, sneezing and coughing

    That is the point. You wear them to protect OTHERS; they wear them to protect YOU

    Asian societies have passed this basic IQ test. It seems we are determined to fail
    Ill listen to the WHO and UK govt, if either say I should/need to wear them in certain circumstances I will.

    Currently they advise me not to, and you advise me to wear them.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,816
    interested to know what age you go from young to old! Is it perception or stated?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675

    I'm not sure history is going to look favourably on that picture of President Xi and David Cameron having a pint together in his local.

    That'll be viewed as very Tea with Mussolini one day.

    Assume ole Brenda gets the standard Ceaușescu pardon.

    'I was only obeying orders given by my government.'
    Well, of course.

    She doesn't make policy. She does what the Government ask.
    Ah the 'I was only following orders' line as loved by collaborators and assistants of true evil.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675

    interested to know what age you go from young to old! Is it perception or stated?
    Old is around your current age plus 15 -20 years.

    It is for me anyway.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    I fear the government won't make any plans to produce the millions of masks required and then in July / August announce that we all need to wear them.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    I'm not sure history is going to look favourably on that picture of President Xi and David Cameron having a pint together in his local.

    That'll be viewed as very Tea with Mussolini one day.

    Assume ole Brenda gets the standard Ceaușescu pardon.

    'I was only obeying orders given by my government.'
    Well, of course.

    She doesn't make policy. She does what the Government ask.
    Including that strange episode when video of her talking to a police officer about the behaviour of the Chinese on a visit.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,775
    FF43 said:

    ..

    Omnium said:

    FF43 said:

    Omnium said:

    glw said:

    NYC overall: 19.9% positive for antibodies.

    Bronx: 27.6%
    Brooklyn: 19.2%
    Manhattan: 17.3%
    Queens: 18.4%
    Staten Island: 19.2%

    IFR of 0.8% on those current figures.

    Taking that IFR and applying it to the UK with current figures would suggest that 3.5 million have been infected across the country, and over 600,000 in London alone. Officially it's about 182,000 across the country. Now admittedly there are deaths to come, and different circumstances and populations between New York City and London and the UK, but a rough estimate of there being an order of magnitude more cases than is official does seem highly likely.
    Very good news if such high figures are correct. I actually think that the truth may be higher still, but just a hunch.

    If only one could trust the test!

    (Personally I had some sort of bug some weeks ago - it wasn't nice, but wasn't that bad either. I live in fairly central London)
    Why is it good news? It means this epidemic has seen less than one tenth of expected deaths in London before it runs its course and a lot less than one tenth of deaths elsewhere.
    I think you answered your own question.

    If everybody's had it and mostly recovered it's great.
    Less one tenth have had it. We're looking at a potential death toll in the hundreds of thousands in the UK, on a par with the whole of WW2. Doesn't that bother you?
    I want as many people as possible to have HAD the bug. There will be some partial immunity from having it and even if there isn't these people have demonstrated that they can deal with it.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675
    Fewer than one in five of the British public believe the time is right to consider reopening schools, restaurants, pubs and stadiums. The findings, in a new poll for the Observer, suggest Boris Johnson will struggle to convince people to return their lives to normal if he tries to ease the lockdown soon.

    The poll by Opinium, taken between Wednesday and Friday last week, found 17% of people think the conditions have been met to consider reopening schools, against 67% who say they have not been, and that they should stay closed.

    Opposition to reopening restaurants and pubs – and allowing mass gatherings in sports and other stadiums to resume – is even higher. Just 11% of people think the time is right to consider reopening restaurants, while 78% are against. Only 9% believe it would be correct to consider reopening pubs, while 81% are against; 7% say it would be right to think of allowing mass gatherings at sports events or concerts to resume, with 84% against.

    On Saturday the psychologist Prof Dame Til Wykes of King’s College London said the public’s reactions to easing the lockdown were likely to reveal high levels of anxiety. “How reopening society is going to affect people has not really been examined in any detail,” she said....

    ...The Opinium poll shows the government struggling to hold on to public support over its handling of the coronavirus crisis. The percentage of people who approve of its management of the crisis has fallen from 61% three weeks ago to 47% now, with the proportion of those who disapprove up from 22% to 34%. The net approval rate has fallen therefore from plus 39% to plus 13%. Given the fragile state of support, ministers will be determined not to misread the public mood over easing the lockdown.

    Adam Drummond of Opinium said that views among the public over what to do about the lockdown seemed to differ from those at Westminster. “The public’s appetite for lifting the lockdown measures remains minuscule,” Drummond said. “Very few people believe that conditions have been met to allow for public spaces and venues to reopen on 8 May, and while some are treating the rules less strictly, few admit to breaching them.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/02/fearful-britons-oppose-lifting-lockdown-schools-pubs-restaurants-opinium-poll
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908
    FF43 said:

    Less one tenth have had it. We're looking at a potential death toll in the hundreds of thousands in the UK, on a par with the whole of WW2. Doesn't that bother you?

    It does also point to Ferguson and his colleagues at Imperial College being broadly right with their modelling. The optimism that some people have that there is a vast iceberg of asymptomatic cases so that the IFR is more like seasonal flu is probably wrong.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,878
    Looks like peak UK deaths (all settings) was 1,172 on 20th April.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482

    I'm not sure history is going to look favourably on that picture of President Xi and David Cameron having a pint together in his local.

    That'll be viewed as very Tea with Mussolini one day.

    Assume ole Brenda gets the standard Ceaușescu pardon.

    'I was only obeying orders given by my government.'
    Well, of course.

    She doesn't make policy. She does what the Government ask.
    Margaret Thatcher was all for constructive engagement with regimes that she was fundamentally opposed to. What should Cameron have done, put President Xi in the stocks and have people through mouldy vegetables at him?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,608
    Omnium said:

    eadric said:

    Omnium said:

    fox327 said:


    alterego said:

    eek said:

    Surely the two statements contradict each other as you would expect any disapproval of the handling to correspond with a desire to return to things as they were before pre lockdown.

    You did notice he works for the Observer?
    I went round my local Morrison's today. It was as crowded as on a normal day. I am sitting here listening to loud music from nearby flats, sometimes I can hear people doing loud exercises. It used to be very quiet all the time. Sure some people don't want the lockdown to end and others do. The government will need to have the wisdom of Solomon to decide what to do.
    I'm puzzled as to where all the cars are. Obviously there are almost none on the streets, but what baffles me is that lots of resident's parking seems free too. In London this is. Somewhere there must be more cars than usual!

    People being noisy is a great crime. I'm so happy and lucky that my neighbours are quiet.
    "Somewhere there must be more cars than usual"

    Penarth, Wales
    Lots and lots?

    I live in Maida Vale, and there is a noticeable amount of extra space - no double parking on a sunday morning! In Bayswater (just down the road) there are whole bays that are almost empty.

    I guess we'll have to forgive you for your parked car as it allows you to report!
    Those cars normally in those spaces in Maida Vale and Bayswater are now in Devon, Cornwall, south Wales.....
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,775
    eadric said:

    Omnium said:

    eadric said:

    Omnium said:

    fox327 said:


    alterego said:

    eek said:

    Surely the two statements contradict each other as you would expect any disapproval of the handling to correspond with a desire to return to things as they were before pre lockdown.

    You did notice he works for the Observer?
    I went round my local Morrison's today. It was as crowded as on a normal day. I am sitting here listening to loud music from nearby flats, sometimes I can hear people doing loud exercises. It used to be very quiet all the time. Sure some people don't want the lockdown to end and others do. The government will need to have the wisdom of Solomon to decide what to do.
    I'm puzzled as to where all the cars are. Obviously there are almost none on the streets, but what baffles me is that lots of resident's parking seems free too. In London this is. Somewhere there must be more cars than usual!

    People being noisy is a great crime. I'm so happy and lucky that my neighbours are quiet.
    "Somewhere there must be more cars than usual"

    Penarth, Wales
    Lots and lots?

    I live in Maida Vale, and there is a noticeable amount of extra space - no double parking on a sunday morning! In Bayswater (just down the road) there are whole bays that are almost empty.

    I guess we'll have to forgive you for your parked car as it allows you to report!
    You will. As I am now officially reporting on coronavirus I am apparently an essential worker! Who knew.

    I exult in my status alongside nurses and firemen
    Sure, but how many more cars are there?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    I can see it now. We get to summer, not enough masks for the public, government pisses about with the public sector trying to increase masks availability, then they set a challenge to get 50 million masks a week for another month down the line via a public / private partnership...
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