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  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    humbugger said:

    Floater said:
    This is just as bad as that other case of the Labour Councillor. Assuming Guido's story is correct, she should be sacked by the NHS and thrown out of the Labour Party.

    I've no idea if any of the MSM ran with this story but if so they should run very prominent retractions.

    Can't say I'm too surprised by Labour activists in the NHS making it up,
    Cant say i am surprised Tory posters think stories about PPE shortages are made up.

    Unfortunately for you guys NHS Providers the NHS Confederation and the Government seem to admit some Trusts are critically low on gowns.

    The bloke who reckons she is lying looks like a political activist too if you read his tweets and retweets.

    And as for Guido

    Her post about Johnson is disgusting
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Cookie said:

    Crude Oil at £4 a barrell!

    No, can i get hold of a couple of barrels
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    humbugger said:

    Floater said:
    This is just as bad as that other case of the Labour Councillor. Assuming Guido's story is correct, she should be sacked by the NHS and thrown out of the Labour Party.

    I've no idea if any of the MSM ran with this story but if so they should run very prominent retractions.

    Can't say I'm too surprised by Labour activists in the NHS making it up,
    Cant say i am surprised Tory posters think stories about PPE shortages are made up.

    Unfortunately for you guys NHS Providers the NHS Confederation and the Government seem to admit some Trusts are critically low on gowns.

    The bloke who reckons she is lying looks like a political activist too if you read his tweets and retweets.

    And as for Guido

    Her post about Johnson is disgusting
    Considering Matt Hancock is freely admitting that supplies of key elements are in critically short supply, perhaps we need to consider if he is a deep mole Labouf activist.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Professor Carl Henegan (Oxon) says the data shows that infections peaked before lockdown.

    If this is right, have we just mugged off our economy for no good reason?

    Blimey! Carl was one of my drinking buddies at Uni. Amazing how people grow up into serious people :smiley:
  • Foxy said:

    humbugger said:

    Floater said:
    This is just as bad as that other case of the Labour Councillor. Assuming Guido's story is correct, she should be sacked by the NHS and thrown out of the Labour Party.

    I've no idea if any of the MSM ran with this story but if so they should run very prominent retractions.

    Can't say I'm too surprised by Labour activists in the NHS making it up,
    Cant say i am surprised Tory posters think stories about PPE shortages are made up.

    Unfortunately for you guys NHS Providers the NHS Confederation and the Government seem to admit some Trusts are critically low on gowns.

    The bloke who reckons she is lying looks like a political activist too if you read his tweets and retweets.

    And as for Guido

    Her post about Johnson is disgusting
    Considering Matt Hancock is freely admitting that supplies of key elements are in critically short supply, perhaps we need to consider if he is a deep mole Labouf activist.
    Or being honest
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    edited April 2020
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    Just been out for a ride.

    That wind is fearsome.
  • NormNorm Posts: 1,251
    I'm getting the sense the tide is turning. The public may sense this too as there's definitely more traffic on the main road outside my house today.

    Watch the pressure build for a phased relaxation over the next few days.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    Things easing up at my Trust a little now, with more ICU capacity.

    Trying to get more of the non-covid19 stuff in, but patients very reluctant. Like the airlines, we have loads of capacity but little demand.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609

    Just rejoice at this news.

    Domino's fans 'outraged' as chain drops the Hawaiian pizza from its new simplified menu

    No more pineapple pizzas for a while…

    https://www.entertainmentdaily.co.uk/lifestyle/dominos-fans-outraged-as-chain-drops-the-hawaiian-pizza-from-its-new-simplified-menu/

    Dominos - you're dead to me.
  • johnoundlejohnoundle Posts: 120
    Foxy said:

    alex_ said:

    Notwithstanding the general point about the negotiations and transition extension, it wouldn’t be surprising if negotiations might actually be going easier (at this stage) because nobody has any interest in public grandstanding.
    Nobody has to win. They just not have to lose.
    I hope they succeed

    Someone said a poll shows two thirds wanting an extension

    How would a poll look if the following questions were asked and are very relevant:


    Are you prepared to pay the EU billions to extend the transistion

    Are you prepared to become involved in bailing out EU countries post covid

    Are you prepared to allow the EU, backed by the ECJ, to inhibit how we deal with the financial repercussions of covid 19
    The billions are committed by the "oven ready deal" whipped through Parliament without much scrutiny are they not?

    We are not in the EZ so exempt from Coronabonds.

    In what way is the ECJ currently interfering with the governments plans? Why would that be different next year?

    Not that it matters to me, as I am quite OK with No Deal Brexit, but it would be quite a whack to parts of the economy.

    Alistair Darling who attended the emergency bailout meeting in 2010, whilst the Tories & Lib Dems were still in coalition talks, also thought that as we were not in EZ we would not be required to support the bailout. But then an obscure clause from the Lisbon agreement was found & the UK was required to give £13 billion.in support.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    isam said:

    @Richard_Tyndall @rcs1000

    7pm BBC4 every night during lockdown

    Bob Ross!

    Who
    A cultural icon for our times... for all times.
    I am just an oldy - he is not on my radar I am afraid
    He's a painter who was on TV in the 80s and early 90s
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    $2.50 now.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,775
    Andy_JS said:
    If you hold it for me I'll buy all you've got.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Andy_JS said:

    $2.50 now.

    I think I read somewhere (possibly here) that that's the break even point for Saudi.
  • isam said:

    @Richard_Tyndall @rcs1000

    7pm BBC4 every night during lockdown

    Bob Ross!

    Who
    A cultural icon for our times... for all times.
    I am just an oldy - he is not on my radar I am afraid
    He's a painter who was on TV in the 80s and early 90s
    Thank you
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    tlg86 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    $2.50 now.

    I think I read somewhere (possibly here) that that's the break even point for Saudi.
    Although it's American oil, not Brent Crude which is still at $26.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,932

    isam said:

    @Richard_Tyndall @rcs1000

    7pm BBC4 every night during lockdown

    Bob Ross!

    Who
    A cultural icon for our times... for all times.
    I am just an oldy - he is not on my radar I am afraid
    He's a painter who was on TV in the 80s and early 90s
    Bob Ross is hugely popular in Americaland. I expect some BBC4 Oxbridge-educated intern discovered him on Reddit which, to be fair, is how I heard about him.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Foxy said:

    alex_ said:

    Notwithstanding the general point about the negotiations and transition extension, it wouldn’t be surprising if negotiations might actually be going easier (at this stage) because nobody has any interest in public grandstanding.
    Nobody has to win. They just not have to lose.
    I hope they succeed

    Someone said a poll shows two thirds wanting an extension

    How would a poll look if the following questions were asked and are very relevant:


    Are you prepared to pay the EU billions to extend the transistion

    Are you prepared to become involved in bailing out EU countries post covid

    Are you prepared to allow the EU, backed by the ECJ, to inhibit how we deal with the financial repercussions of covid 19
    The billions are committed by the "oven ready deal" whipped through Parliament without much scrutiny are they not?

    We are not in the EZ so exempt from Coronabonds.

    In what way is the ECJ currently interfering with the governments plans? Why would that be different next year?

    Not that it matters to me, as I am quite OK with No Deal Brexit, but it would be quite a whack to parts of the economy.

    Alistair Darling who attended the emergency bailout meeting in 2010, whilst the Tories & Lib Dems were still in coalition talks, also thought that as we were not in EZ we would not be required to support the bailout. But then an obscure clause from the Lisbon agreement was found & the UK was required to give £13 billion.in support.
    Plenty of time to clarify that before the June deadline.

    Not that I am bothered by No Deal. My job is not at risk, indeed I expect to be very much in demand for the next year or two.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    Foxy said:

    Things easing up at my Trust a little now, with more ICU capacity.

    Trying to get more of the non-covid19 stuff in, but patients very reluctant. Like the airlines, we have loads of capacity but little demand.

    I'm curious, is it possible at most hospitals to run basically 2 separate/distanced hospitals within the same building for covid and non-covid patients?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Andy_JS said:

    tlg86 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    $2.50 now.

    I think I read somewhere (possibly here) that that's the break even point for Saudi.
    Although it's American oil, not Brent Crude which is still at $26.
    The problem for American oil is the cost of storing it while it isn’t wanted.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Foxy said:

    Things easing up at my Trust a little now, with more ICU capacity.

    Trying to get more of the non-covid19 stuff in, but patients very reluctant. Like the airlines, we have loads of capacity but little demand.

    Thats like Covid 19 testing.

    Low demand among the allowed groups

    Less than 50% of capacity used yesterday.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Andy_JS said:

    tlg86 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    $2.50 now.

    I think I read somewhere (possibly here) that that's the break even point for Saudi.
    Although it's American oil, not Brent Crude which is still at $26.
    Ah right, thanks.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    Andrew said:

    Foxy said:

    Things easing up at my Trust a little now, with more ICU capacity.

    Trying to get more of the non-covid19 stuff in, but patients very reluctant. Like the airlines, we have loads of capacity but little demand.

    I'm curious, is it possible at most hospitals to run basically 2 separate/distanced hospitals within the same building for covid and non-covid patients?
    We do already in Leicester, but the non covid19 patients won't come (apart from an uptick in gardening and DIY injuries according to my colleagues in ED).
  • johnoundlejohnoundle Posts: 120
    timmo said:

    WTI oil May contract trading at $4 a barrell yes $4 a barrell.

    Let's hear what the Donald has to say about that

    And Sturgeon, at the time of the 2014 referendum the oil price was around $100 & the numbers still didn't add up.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    There’s nowhere to store any pumped surplus any longer.

    Singapore’s largest oil trader just went bust, amid allegations of accounting fraud, too.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    timmo said:

    WTI oil May contract trading at $4 a barrell yes $4 a barrell.

    Let's hear what the Donald has to say about that

    And Sturgeon, at the time of the 2014 referendum the oil price was around $100 & the numbers still didn't add up.
    To be fair, that's Brent, which is at $20 a barrel, not WTI (at less than $2)
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    Foxy said:

    humbugger said:

    Floater said:
    This is just as bad as that other case of the Labour Councillor. Assuming Guido's story is correct, she should be sacked by the NHS and thrown out of the Labour Party.

    I've no idea if any of the MSM ran with this story but if so they should run very prominent retractions.

    Can't say I'm too surprised by Labour activists in the NHS making it up,
    Cant say i am surprised Tory posters think stories about PPE shortages are made up.

    Unfortunately for you guys NHS Providers the NHS Confederation and the Government seem to admit some Trusts are critically low on gowns.

    The bloke who reckons she is lying looks like a political activist too if you read his tweets and retweets.

    And as for Guido

    Her post about Johnson is disgusting
    Considering Matt Hancock is freely admitting that supplies of key elements are in critically short supply, perhaps we need to consider if he is a deep mole Labouf activist.
    Or being honest
    Well quite
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    I think we can say Trump's efforts to prop up the American oil market haven't worked.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,567

    timmo said:

    WTI oil May contract trading at $4 a barrell yes $4 a barrell.

    Let's hear what the Donald has to say about that

    And Sturgeon, at the time of the 2014 referendum the oil price was around $100 & the numbers still didn't add up.
    There has been an interesting decoupling between WTI and Brent prices over the last few months. There was always a premium on Brent crude but they generally kept the same difference between them. Right now WTI futures are trading at $1.40 a barrel whilst Brent crude is trading at $26.35. Not sure why this decoupling has occurred.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,833

    humbugger said:

    Floater said:
    This is just as bad as that other case of the Labour Councillor. Assuming Guido's story is correct, she should be sacked by the NHS and thrown out of the Labour Party.

    I've no idea if any of the MSM ran with this story but if so they should run very prominent retractions.

    Can't say I'm too surprised by Labour activists in the NHS making it up,
    Cant say i am surprised Tory posters think stories about PPE shortages are made up.

    Unfortunately for you guys NHS Providers the NHS Confederation and the Government seem to admit some Trusts are critically low on gowns.

    The bloke who reckons she is lying looks like a political activist too if you read his tweets and retweets.

    And as for Guido

    Her post about Johnson is disgusting
    I think everyone, regardless of affiliation, recognises there is a problem with PPE.
    It's quite depressing though when you get trolls like her whose sole aim is to make the government look bad.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    isam said:

    @Richard_Tyndall @rcs1000

    7pm BBC4 every night during lockdown

    Bob Ross!

    Who
    A cultural icon for our times... for all times.
    I am just an oldy - he is not on my radar I am afraid
    He's a painter who was on TV in the 80s and early 90s
    Bob Ross is hugely popular in Americaland. I expect some BBC4 Oxbridge-educated intern discovered him on Reddit which, to be fair, is how I heard about him.
    His entire back catalogue is available for free on YouTube - I’ve been watching it to destress for years.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Cookie said:

    Crude Oil is now hovering around $10 a barrel. I am no expert in this field, but this feels as if it could have some significant implications. Anyone want to advance any informed opinions on what?

    Short term not much, medium term Russia fucked, long term middle East fucked.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    timmo said:

    WTI oil May contract trading at $4 a barrell yes $4 a barrell.

    Let's hear what the Donald has to say about that

    And Sturgeon, at the time of the 2014 referendum the oil price was around $100 & the numbers still didn't add up.
    There has been an interesting decoupling between WTI and Brent prices over the last few months. There was always a premium on Brent crude but they generally kept the same difference between them. Right now WTI futures are trading at $1.40 a barrel whilst Brent crude is trading at $26.35. Not sure why this decoupling has occurred.
    Differential in shutdown costs and oil companies being willing to take short term losses in order to avoid shutting down.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999

    timmo said:

    WTI oil May contract trading at $4 a barrell yes $4 a barrell.

    Let's hear what the Donald has to say about that

    And Sturgeon, at the time of the 2014 referendum the oil price was around $100 & the numbers still didn't add up.
    Always a laff to see Unionists crowing about the UK exchequer losing a chunk of revenue just to do down the Nats.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    You don't wanna be the one left holding corporate bonds issued by Texas oil producers just at the moment...
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100
    Alistair said:

    Cookie said:

    Crude Oil is now hovering around $10 a barrel. I am no expert in this field, but this feels as if it could have some significant implications. Anyone want to advance any informed opinions on what?

    Short term not much, medium term Russia fucked, long term middle East fucked.
    Doesn't do much for the oil companies either - any term
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    Literally is there any way for a retail investor to buy oil without having to actually own an oil refinery or storage tank or whatever?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,604
    Cookie said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Crude Oil is now hovering around $10 a barrel. I am no expert in this field, but this feels as if it could have some significant implications. Anyone want to advance any informed opinions on what?

    Great news for anyone who consumes the stuff, including motorists, aviation and heating oil.
    Bad news for anyone who produces oil (except for the Saudis), specifically Russia and the USA for whom the new price is way below their marginal cost of production.
    Why not bad for the Saudis?
    The Saudis reckon their marginal cost of extraction is something silly like $2.80, against c.$30 for Russia and c.$50 for the USA shale. So prices in the single figures completely screw Russia and the USA.

    The games started when Russia refused to cut production in response to drop in demand from China, preferring to see the price fall to around $50, to try and take out the US shale supply. Saudi responded by *increasing* production, with the intent of taking out Russian supply, which is what we now see playing out.

    Looks like the price could even now go negative as physical storage starts to run out. That’ll be fun! A great opportunity for everyone to top up strategic national reserves, if they can actually store the stuff.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    edited April 2020
    Removed.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    MaxPB said:

    Quincel said:

    Literally is there any way for a retail investor to buy oil without having to actually own an oil refinery or storage tank or whatever?

    A proxy investment makes more sense.
    Yes, that's exactly what I have in mind. I imagine there isn't or surely everyone would be doing it right now and the price wouldn't be basically zero, but is there?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Alistair said:

    Cookie said:

    Crude Oil is now hovering around $10 a barrel. I am no expert in this field, but this feels as if it could have some significant implications. Anyone want to advance any informed opinions on what?

    Short term not much, medium term Russia fucked, long term middle East fucked.
    Good!

    Its in our geostrategic interest to move away from oil and to renewables to ensure that is a permanent transition in geopolitics.
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100
    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Crude Oil is now hovering around $10 a barrel. I am no expert in this field, but this feels as if it could have some significant implications. Anyone want to advance any informed opinions on what?

    Great news for anyone who consumes the stuff, including motorists, aviation and heating oil.
    Bad news for anyone who produces oil (except for the Saudis), specifically Russia and the USA for whom the new price is way below their marginal cost of production.
    Why not bad for the Saudis?
    The Saudis reckon their marginal cost of extraction is something silly like $2.80, against c.$30 for Russia and c.$50 for the USA shale. So prices in the single figures completely screw Russia and the USA.

    The games started when Russia refused to cut production in response to drop in demand from China, preferring to see the price fall to around $50, to try and take out the US shale supply. Saudi responded by *increasing* production, with the intent of taking out Russian supply, which is what we now see playing out.

    Looks like the price could even now go negative as physical storage starts to run out. That’ll be fun! A great opportunity for everyone to top up strategic national reserves, if they can actually store the stuff.
    I don't think the Saudis "need" to pump oil save to the extent it serves their trillions invested in the West.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    Alistair said:

    Cookie said:

    Crude Oil is now hovering around $10 a barrel. I am no expert in this field, but this feels as if it could have some significant implications. Anyone want to advance any informed opinions on what?

    Short term not much, medium term Russia fucked, long term middle East fucked.
    And independence for Scotland too if it continues will be economically unviable
  • MundoMundo Posts: 36
    alterego said:

    Alistair said:

    Cookie said:

    Crude Oil is now hovering around $10 a barrel. I am no expert in this field, but this feels as if it could have some significant implications. Anyone want to advance any informed opinions on what?

    Short term not much, medium term Russia fucked, long term middle East fucked.
    Doesn't do much for the oil companies either - any term
    alterego said:

    Alistair said:

    Cookie said:

    Crude Oil is now hovering around $10 a barrel. I am no expert in this field, but this feels as if it could have some significant implications. Anyone want to advance any informed opinions on what?

    Short term not much, medium term Russia fucked, long term middle East fucked.
    Doesn't do much for the oil companies either - any term
    alterego said:

    Alistair said:

    Cookie said:

    Crude Oil is now hovering around $10 a barrel. I am no expert in this field, but this feels as if it could have some significant implications. Anyone want to advance any informed opinions on what?

    Short term not much, medium term Russia fucked, long term middle East fucked.
    Doesn't do much for the oil companies either - any term
    As far as Middle East is concerned this could be the one positive outcome from this horrible situation. A world that does not excuse the actions of a medieval state simply because they have oil is a better one.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Quincel said:

    MaxPB said:

    Quincel said:

    Literally is there any way for a retail investor to buy oil without having to actually own an oil refinery or storage tank or whatever?

    A proxy investment makes more sense.
    Yes, that's exactly what I have in mind. I imagine there isn't or surely everyone would be doing it right now and the price wouldn't be basically zero, but is there?
    Apologies, I overstepped the mark. No investment advice from me.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,604
    Quincel said:

    MaxPB said:

    Quincel said:

    Literally is there any way for a retail investor to buy oil without having to actually own an oil refinery or storage tank or whatever?

    A proxy investment makes more sense.
    Yes, that's exactly what I have in mind. I imagine there isn't or surely everyone would be doing it right now and the price wouldn't be basically zero, but is there?
    The price that’s zero is for physical WTI oil delivered in May. June WTI deliveries and Brent oil are still both over $20.
  • ukpaulukpaul Posts: 649
    Norm said:

    I'm getting the sense the tide is turning. The public may sense this too as there's definitely more traffic on the main road outside my house today.

    Watch the pressure build for a phased relaxation over the next few days.

    These people are going to destroy all the hard work that's been done. All because they are too wilful to stop their normal routine. Do they not realise that if we slacken off then we have to do it all over again?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,604
    edited April 2020
    alterego said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Crude Oil is now hovering around $10 a barrel. I am no expert in this field, but this feels as if it could have some significant implications. Anyone want to advance any informed opinions on what?

    Great news for anyone who consumes the stuff, including motorists, aviation and heating oil.
    Bad news for anyone who produces oil (except for the Saudis), specifically Russia and the USA for whom the new price is way below their marginal cost of production.
    Why not bad for the Saudis?
    The Saudis reckon their marginal cost of extraction is something silly like $2.80, against c.$30 for Russia and c.$50 for the USA shale. So prices in the single figures completely screw Russia and the USA.

    The games started when Russia refused to cut production in response to drop in demand from China, preferring to see the price fall to around $50, to try and take out the US shale supply. Saudi responded by *increasing* production, with the intent of taking out Russian supply, which is what we now see playing out.

    Looks like the price could even now go negative as physical storage starts to run out. That’ll be fun! A great opportunity for everyone to top up strategic national reserves, if they can actually store the stuff.
    I don't think the Saudis "need" to pump oil save to the extent it serves their trillions invested in the West.
    Not at all, it’s base politics at this point - MBS just wants Putin to have to come and kiss his feet.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    Foxy said:

    alex_ said:

    Notwithstanding the general point about the negotiations and transition extension, it wouldn’t be surprising if negotiations might actually be going easier (at this stage) because nobody has any interest in public grandstanding.
    Nobody has to win. They just not have to lose.
    I hope they succeed

    Someone said a poll shows two thirds wanting an extension

    How would a poll look if the following questions were asked and are very relevant:


    Are you prepared to pay the EU billions to extend the transistion

    Are you prepared to become involved in bailing out EU countries post covid

    Are you prepared to allow the EU, backed by the ECJ, to inhibit how we deal with the financial repercussions of covid 19
    The billions are committed by the "oven ready deal" whipped through Parliament without much scrutiny are they not?

    We are not in the EZ so exempt from Coronabonds.

    In what way is the ECJ currently interfering with the governments plans? Why would that be different next year?

    Not that it matters to me, as I am quite OK with No Deal Brexit, but it would be quite a whack to parts of the economy.
    We have a Deal, the Withdrawal Agreement, the fact we might end the transition period before a FTA is agreed with the EU is not the same thing
  • johnoundlejohnoundle Posts: 120

    Foxy said:

    humbugger said:

    Floater said:
    This is just as bad as that other case of the Labour Councillor. Assuming Guido's story is correct, she should be sacked by the NHS and thrown out of the Labour Party.

    I've no idea if any of the MSM ran with this story but if so they should run very prominent retractions.

    Can't say I'm too surprised by Labour activists in the NHS making it up,
    Cant say i am surprised Tory posters think stories about PPE shortages are made up.

    Unfortunately for you guys NHS Providers the NHS Confederation and the Government seem to admit some Trusts are critically low on gowns.

    The bloke who reckons she is lying looks like a political activist too if you read his tweets and retweets.

    And as for Guido

    Her post about Johnson is disgusting
    Considering Matt Hancock is freely admitting that supplies of key elements are in critically short supply, perhaps we need to consider if he is a deep mole Labouf activist.
    Or being honest
    Well quite

    Nobody is claiming that PPE supply is not tight, but a Labour activist deliberately lying about it for political reasons is just disgusting as is her post about Johnson. Is she the only one?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    edited April 2020
    36 cents for a barrel of WTI oil.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    ukpaul said:

    Norm said:

    I'm getting the sense the tide is turning. The public may sense this too as there's definitely more traffic on the main road outside my house today.

    Watch the pressure build for a phased relaxation over the next few days.

    These people are going to destroy all the hard work that's been done. All because they are too wilful to stop their normal routine. Do they not realise that if we slacken off then we have to do it all over again?
    They will also be the first to blame the government...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    Foxy said:

    Things easing up at my Trust a little now, with more ICU capacity.

    Trying to get more of the non-covid19 stuff in, but patients very reluctant. Like the airlines, we have loads of capacity but little demand.

    Who wants to go to hospitals with no PPE?

    It's like asking people to fly in planes with no wings.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,833
    Crude oil now 12p a barrel...
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    edited April 2020
    Cookie said:

    Crude oil now 12p a barrel...

    Surely it's worth buying it at that price, unless you think it's going to stay at that level forever.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898
    Evening all :)

    How are the politics and economics of this going to play out over the next 12-24 months?

    The demand-side collapse is unprecedented - some on here have talked about 20% unemployment which would mean 6.25 million out of work and a consequent strain on welfare.

    Oil price falls will mean cheaper fuel which will offset some of the inflationary pressures but the question is less how deep the hole will be but how much we will climb out once life returns to whatever the new normal looks like.

    Percentages aren't much helped - if GDP is 100 and falls to 70 and recovers to 90 that's a 30% drop followed by a 28% rise so you'd be forgiven for thinking everything was back to normal - we are still 10 points down.

    It's not just a question of getting back to 100 but to where we would have been if there had been no virus.

    The public finances will be shattered - we were already going to borrow around £50 billion in 19/20 but presumably that will be exceeded and the 20/21 number will be £150 billion perhaps?

    How will that be brought back down? Tax rises look inevitable as does a major new round of spending cuts (from which the NHS will be protected but Defence and the Police probably won't).

    As none of us (even OGH) were around during the last similar downturn in the early 18th century, we don't really know what's going to happen. As with all these things, some people will be hurt very badly, others hardly at all. I suppose a lot will depend on whether QE for the entire economy is maintained as long as QE was for the financial sector.
  • The actual physical barrel is worth more than the oil it holds right now.

    Am I right?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:


    I think like India they are just earlier in the curve.

    India had its first case on 30th January.
    We had our first one Early Feb. It takes a while to get established.
    30th January was earlier than "early Feb".
    By a week, as I recall.

    Social distancing will be quite a problem from what I recall of India. Lots of poorly controlled diabetes and heart disease too.

    India was hard hit by the Spanish Flu.

    https://theconversation.com/1918-flu-pandemic-killed-12-million-indians-and-british-overlords-indifference-strengthened-the-anti-colonial-movement-133605
    My question is how come the UK, which had its first case a week after India did, has had far more fatalities?
    The UK has far more males over 80 than India, the number of men over 80 you have in the country is the single biggest factor in Covid 19 deaths

    https://marketmonetarist.com/2020/04/20/one-factor-explains-most-of-the-differences-in-covid19-deaths-across-countries/
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119

    The actual physical barrel is worth more than the oil it holds right now.

    Am I right?

    Like the perfume business...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,604

    The actual physical barrel is worth more than the oil it holds right now.

    Am I right?

    Yup.
  • ukpaulukpaul Posts: 649
    edited April 2020

    ukpaul said:

    Norm said:

    I'm getting the sense the tide is turning. The public may sense this too as there's definitely more traffic on the main road outside my house today.

    Watch the pressure build for a phased relaxation over the next few days.

    These people are going to destroy all the hard work that's been done. All because they are too wilful to stop their normal routine. Do they not realise that if we slacken off then we have to do it all over again?
    They will also be the first to blame the government...
    The media are also to blame, they are reporting places like NZ and Denmark easing lockdowns but they have done things which we haven't gone anywhere near and this is not being mentioned.

    I'm afraid I see it as the British disease, wanting the reward without being arsed to put in the effort.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Just wondering, if I buy a few barrels of oil, do they offer free delivery?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    Alistair said:

    Cookie said:

    Crude Oil is now hovering around $10 a barrel. I am no expert in this field, but this feels as if it could have some significant implications. Anyone want to advance any informed opinions on what?

    Short term not much, medium term Russia fucked, long term middle East fucked.
    But Yemen is probably thankful that Saudi and Iran won't have the money to carry on their proxy wars any longer.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    On No Deal if deal means extension point. Fishermen, the ultimate Brexit icon, are absolutely desperate right now because their markets (mostly in the EU) have dried up due to coronavirus. I wonder if the prospect of that situation becoming permanent because of Brexit No Deal will concentrate minds a bit.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    edited April 2020

    Just wondering, if I buy a few barrels of oil, do they offer free delivery?

    And can we just pour away the oil and keep the barrels? The barrels are probably worth more at this point.

    EDIT: I see this point has already been made.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,604
    edited April 2020
    Quincel said:

    Just wondering, if I buy a few barrels of oil, do they offer free delivery?

    And can we just pour away the oil and keep the barrels? The barrels are probably worth more at this point.

    EDIT: I see this point has already been made.
    The problem is that there’s not enough barrels, and you’ll need to supply your own. The price that’s zero is for wholesale market delivery next month.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    FF43 said:

    On No Deal if deal means extension point. Fishermen, the ultimate Brexit icon, are absolutely desperate right now because their markets (mostly in the EU) have dried up due to coronavirus. I wonder if the prospect of that situation becoming permanent because of Brexit No Deal will concentrate minds a bit.

    It is not No Deal, the Withdrawal Agreement was the Deal and has passed.

    It is not correct to say ending the transition period before a FTA has been agreed with the EU is No Deal
  • The actual physical barrel is worth more than the oil it holds right now.

    Am I right?

    Like the perfume business...
    Sandpit said:

    The actual physical barrel is worth more than the oil it holds right now.

    Am I right?

    Yup.
    Thanks.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    We are in a crazy world. Flour and gym equipment appear to be worth more than their weight in gold, oil isn't even worth the barrel it comes in.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    Cookie said:

    Crude Oil is now hovering around $10 a barrel. I am no expert in this field, but this feels as if it could have some significant implications. Anyone want to advance any informed opinions on what?

    Short term not much, medium term Russia fucked, long term middle East fucked.
    And independence for Scotland too if it continues will be economically unviable
    I'm shocked that you thought independence for Scotland was economically viable up to this point. You concealed it marvellously well.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    On No Deal if deal means extension point. Fishermen, the ultimate Brexit icon, are absolutely desperate right now because their markets (mostly in the EU) have dried up due to coronavirus. I wonder if the prospect of that situation becoming permanent because of Brexit No Deal will concentrate minds a bit.

    It is not No Deal, the Withdrawal Agreement was the Deal and has passed.

    It is not correct to say ending the transition period before a FTA has been agreed with the EU is No Deal
    Of course it’s correct. No deal is no deal, regardless of whether its before or after the transition period.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    stodge said:

    As none of us (even OGH) were around during the last similar downturn in the early 18th century, we don't really know what's going to happen.

    Where’s @JackW when we need him?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898
    HYUFD said:


    We have a Deal, the Withdrawal Agreement, the fact we might end the transition period before a FTA is agreed with the EU is not the same thing

    The question for me is whether free trade itself will survive coronavirus or will countries become more insular and consequentially more protectionist?

    The Conservatives have form when it comes to protectionism and it's tempting to wave the flag and argue for self-sufficiency and less reliance on imports but free trade benefits us all.

    I'd like to think a deal can be achieved and if that requires a 3-6 month extension I don't see the issue - under the circumstances there would be plenty of understanding around the need for some extra time to get the best deal.

    Unless of course the intention was always to walk away without an FTA on 31/12/20 but we were expressly told by Johnson it wasn't.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999

    Alistair said:

    Cookie said:

    Crude Oil is now hovering around $10 a barrel. I am no expert in this field, but this feels as if it could have some significant implications. Anyone want to advance any informed opinions on what?

    Short term not much, medium term Russia fucked, long term middle East fucked.
    But Yemen is probably thankful that Saudi and Iran won't have the money to carry on their proxy wars any longer.
    I'm sure the Saudis will find something under the mattress for the important stuff of pounding dirt poor Yemenis into the ground.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,833

    Just wondering, if I buy a few barrels of oil, do they offer free delivery?

    yes, and also a free pineapple pizza.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,604
    edited April 2020

    The actual physical barrel is worth more than the oil it holds right now.

    Am I right?

    Like the perfume business...
    Sandpit said:

    The actual physical barrel is worth more than the oil it holds right now.

    Am I right?

    Yup.
    Thanks.
    Remember that the wholesale price per barrel doesn’t include the barrels though.

    A retail physical barrel of physical oil will cost considerably more than the indicated price.

    The whole problem is as a result of the world running out of empty barrels.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    You don't wanna be the one left holding corporate bonds issued by Texas oil producers just at the moment...

    Not just them. A number of oil company bonds are heading for junk territory, some big names like Apache and Marathon.

    Jeez, if oil is worthless than what producer is safe? Exxon borrowed USD9.5bn in the bond market last week.
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    Oil.$7 negative...what is the Donald going to say
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898

    Just wondering, if I buy a few barrels of oil, do they offer free delivery?

    It ain't worth a plugged oil barrel....
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    Cookie said:

    Crude Oil is now hovering around $10 a barrel. I am no expert in this field, but this feels as if it could have some significant implications. Anyone want to advance any informed opinions on what?

    Short term not much, medium term Russia fucked, long term middle East fucked.
    And independence for Scotland too if it continues will be economically unviable
    Whatever let's you sleep at night.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    Never thought I'd see a negative oil price.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,604
    Andy_JS said:

    Never thought I'd see a negative oil price.

    *waves from the Middle East*

    Me neither!
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    On No Deal if deal means extension point. Fishermen, the ultimate Brexit icon, are absolutely desperate right now because their markets (mostly in the EU) have dried up due to coronavirus. I wonder if the prospect of that situation becoming permanent because of Brexit No Deal will concentrate minds a bit.

    It is not No Deal, the Withdrawal Agreement was the Deal and has passed.

    It is not correct to say ending the transition period before a FTA has been agreed with the EU is No Deal
    If fishermen want to sell their fish into the EU without large tariffs and lengthy customs checks that impact freshness, they need the UK to negotiate that access, however long it takes. If they don't get that deal they are screwed, basically.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    On No Deal if deal means extension point. Fishermen, the ultimate Brexit icon, are absolutely desperate right now because their markets (mostly in the EU) have dried up due to coronavirus. I wonder if the prospect of that situation becoming permanent because of Brexit No Deal will concentrate minds a bit.

    It is not No Deal, the Withdrawal Agreement was the Deal and has passed.

    It is not correct to say ending the transition period before a FTA has been agreed with the EU is No Deal
    Of course it’s correct. No deal is no deal, regardless of whether its before or after the transition period.
    Wrong, No Deal would have meant a hard border with the Republic of Ireland, no guarantee for citizens' rights and the EU refusing to even start FTA talks with us or grant a transition period
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,604

    Alistair said:

    Cookie said:

    Crude Oil is now hovering around $10 a barrel. I am no expert in this field, but this feels as if it could have some significant implications. Anyone want to advance any informed opinions on what?

    Short term not much, medium term Russia fucked, long term middle East fucked.
    But Yemen is probably thankful that Saudi and Iran won't have the money to carry on their proxy wars any longer.
    Thankfully there’s been something of a ceasefire in recent weeks, as everyone got sick.

    I don’t think the Saudis prioritise Iran and Yemen much right now - not when they’ve got Vladimir Putin by the short and curlies!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    We have a Deal, the Withdrawal Agreement, the fact we might end the transition period before a FTA is agreed with the EU is not the same thing

    The question for me is whether free trade itself will survive coronavirus or will countries become more insular and consequentially more protectionist?

    The Conservatives have form when it comes to protectionism and it's tempting to wave the flag and argue for self-sufficiency and less reliance on imports but free trade benefits us all.

    I'd like to think a deal can be achieved and if that requires a 3-6 month extension I don't see the issue - under the circumstances there would be plenty of understanding around the need for some extra time to get the best deal.

    Unless of course the intention was always to walk away without an FTA on 31/12/20 but we were expressly told by Johnson it wasn't.
    I could live with a 6 month extension but no longer
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    edited April 2020

    Alistair said:

    Cookie said:

    Crude Oil is now hovering around $10 a barrel. I am no expert in this field, but this feels as if it could have some significant implications. Anyone want to advance any informed opinions on what?

    Short term not much, medium term Russia fucked, long term middle East fucked.
    But Yemen is probably thankful that Saudi and Iran won't have the money to carry on their proxy wars any longer.
    I'm sure the Saudis will find something under the mattress for the important stuff of pounding dirt poor Yemenis into the ground.
    Their London property portflio should see to that...
  • Cookie said:

    Just wondering, if I buy a few barrels of oil, do they offer free delivery?

    yes, and also a free pineapple pizza.
    Perhaps you've missed this glorious news?

    Domino's fans 'outraged' as chain drops the Hawaiian pizza from its new simplified menu

    No more pineapple pizzas for a while…

    https://www.entertainmentdaily.co.uk/lifestyle/dominos-fans-outraged-as-chain-drops-the-hawaiian-pizza-from-its-new-simplified-menu/
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    On No Deal if deal means extension point. Fishermen, the ultimate Brexit icon, are absolutely desperate right now because their markets (mostly in the EU) have dried up due to coronavirus. I wonder if the prospect of that situation becoming permanent because of Brexit No Deal will concentrate minds a bit.

    It is not No Deal, the Withdrawal Agreement was the Deal and has passed.

    It is not correct to say ending the transition period before a FTA has been agreed with the EU is No Deal
    Of course it’s correct. No deal is no deal, regardless of whether its before or after the transition period.
    Wrong, No Deal would have meant a hard border with the Republic of Ireland, no guarantee for citizens' rights and the EU refusing to even start FTA talks with us or grant a transition period
    No trade deal = no deal.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    Cookie said:

    Just wondering, if I buy a few barrels of oil, do they offer free delivery?

    yes, and also a free pineapple pizza.
    So it’s doubly not worth it?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Always worth a watch for a view from the frontline.

    https://youtu.be/tJCPhoI2Vno
  • Just wondering, if I buy a few barrels of oil, do they offer free delivery?

    No the catch is you have to physically get your oil container into landlocked West Texas by the end of April.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    Cookie said:

    Crude Oil is now hovering around $10 a barrel. I am no expert in this field, but this feels as if it could have some significant implications. Anyone want to advance any informed opinions on what?

    Short term not much, medium term Russia fucked, long term middle East fucked.
    But Yemen is probably thankful that Saudi and Iran won't have the money to carry on their proxy wars any longer.
    Thankfully there’s been something of a ceasefire in recent weeks, as everyone got sick.

    I don’t think the Saudis prioritise Iran and Yemen much right now - not when they’ve got Vladimir Putin by the short and curlies!
    That would explain why we haven't seen Vladimir in public recently....
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    This is where some people's computer programs crash because they weren't designed to cope with a negative oil price.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    I've got it! Pubs are shut and have no use for all the barrels of beer in the basement. Replace them with barrels of oil and the resulting profit can keep the businesses afloat once the lockdown ends.

    I'm a business genius...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Wuhan doctors who were critically ill with coronavirus wake up to find that their skin has turned dark after beating the virus

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8237475/Chinese-doctors-critically-ill-COVID-19-wake-darkened-skin.html

    Not only have they nearly died from CV, they will wait up to find they will now be banned from most places because of their skin colour.
This discussion has been closed.