"“It’s a disgrace for the Eurogroup and for Europe,” exploded France’s finance minister Bruno Le Maire. “While we are counting thousands of deaths, the finance ministers play with words and adjectives. We’re going to be judged severely by the markets and by our own populations.”"
"Italy’s premier says Europe will lose its “raison d’etre” if it fails to come through with anything beyond loans on insulting Dutch terms in the greatest peace-time shock for a hundred years or more. Why should Italy continue to give up the sovereign tools of self-defence if the EU will not act? "
Seems that the Dutch are the sole obstructors to an EU wide rescue package, against the wishes of, among others, Germany? Funny, we were constantly told small(er) countries were powerless in the face of the Germanic juggernaut.
The Dutch finance minister has caused a huge amount of ill feeling in Spain, Portugal and Italy with his remarks a week or so ago. I'm not sure it is only the Dutch who oppose the wishes of the Mediterranean bloc. They are meeting again today - there really needs to be an agreement urgently.
I believe the Dutch are the only open opponents from the putative Hansa bloc (Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Ireland, Latvia, Lithuania, the Netherlands and Sweden), to the point of killing it off. Tbh I'm slightly mystified as to why they're so opposed, I've not seen any analysis of why that's the case.
But experts now believe the jab is pointless for most children, who are at very low risk of the disease anyway.
Thankfully they never grow up.
The vaccine isn't for life.
So I went through all that for nothing?!
Indeed. That's why it was stopped. From that article:
Experts believe if you are not in one of the high risk groups, your chances of getting TB are one in 100,000.
The BCG vaccine is thought to offer protection for around 15 years.
However, it is not effective for everyone. In the UK, only around two thirds of those who receive the vaccination are believed to be protected. Some trials have suggested protection could be as low as 30%.
Therefore, for every 5,000 children vaccinated, one case of TB would be prevented over the following 15 years.
Experts say that is hugely cost-ineffective.
The British Thoracic Society said it supported the decision to stop the school BCG programme.
How many people have REALLY been infected with coronavirus? German scientists claim only 6% of cases have been spotted worldwide (and say the rate for the UK is just 1.2%).
You could argue that any governments mandate gets lost because they often have to react to events unforeseen at the time of the election. We can not stop the world turning for five years. Our current democratic system seeks to strike a balance between the view that we need to give the public a say on government policy, but to enable the eventual government that is elected to actually govern in light of the circumstances that may arise in the period between elections.
A very fair summary. Of course you're right. The government in theory still has a mandate. But this situation IS unique. Never before have all of the issues and arguments on which a UK general election was fought been rendered redundant within 14 weeks. It's astonishing.
11:49am Progress on groundbreaking German antibody test This just in from Justin Huggler, our man in Berlin:
A groundbreaking study in Germany has found that far more people may have been infected with the coronavirus than previously thought, suggesting the real death rate is as low as 0.37 per cent and that 15 per cent of people may already have immunity.
"This means a gradual relaxation of the lockdown is now possible," Prof Hendrik Streeck, the leader of the study said.
Prof Streeck and his team are testing over 400 households in Gangelt, the town at the centre of Germany's most serious outbreak, for antibodies to the virus.
This suggests those who have survived an infection have immunity to the virus, the scientists said.
"The 15 percent is not that far from the 60 percent we need for herd immunity," Prof Gunther Hartmann, another member of the study, said. "With 60 to 70 percent herd immunity, the virus will completely disappear from the population. Then the elderly are no longer at risk."
Am I missing something here? 15% is a long way from 60%.
I'm guessing he means that the 15% has been achieved relatively quickly, so the remaining 45% might also not be too far away, but it does sound a bit counter-intuitive.
Maybe something got lost in translation. What he meant was that there may be up to 15% who already have developed antibodies right now, and that the sum total of detected and undetected ongoing cases, once resolved, plus those which are adding to that in the immediate future, as transmission hasn't yet been completely suppressed, may push that number upwards.
But experts now believe the jab is pointless for most children, who are at very low risk of the disease anyway.
Thankfully they never grow up.
The vaccine isn't for life.
So I went through all that for nothing?!
Indeed. That's why it was stopped. From that article:
Experts believe if you are not in one of the high risk groups, your chances of getting TB are one in 100,000.
The BCG vaccine is thought to offer protection for around 15 years.
However, it is not effective for everyone. In the UK, only around two thirds of those who receive the vaccination are believed to be protected. Some trials have suggested protection could be as low as 30%.
Therefore, for every 5,000 children vaccinated, one case of TB would be prevented over the following 15 years.
Experts say that is hugely cost-ineffective.
The British Thoracic Society said it supported the decision to stop the school BCG programme.
I was reading on wikipedia that another study showed no evidence of diminishing protection even after 60 years, so I don't think it is settled. And the numbers seem to suggest that it was doing the job:
"in 1953, 94 children would have to be immunized to prevent one case of TB, by 1988, the annual incidence of TB in the UK had fallen so much, 12,000 children would have to be immunized to prevent a single case of TB."
I guess it can come back if those numbers start rising once again.
"Zimbabwe President Robert Mugabe has been appointed a "goodwill ambassador" by the World Health Organisation, sparking condemnation from human rights and health groups. The WHO's new chief Tedros Ghebreyesus is making the longtime African leader, 93, a goodwill ambassador to help tackle non-communicable diseases such as heart attacks and strokes across Africa."
How many people have REALLY been infected with coronavirus? German scientists claim only 6% of cases have been spotted worldwide (and say the rate for the UK is just 1.2%).
That seems to fit roughly with the LHSTM estimates, UK was at something like 6%ish detection for those with symptoms. Add on those without.....
On another note - with a little more Italy/Spain data, it looks like lockdown + 16 days is peak cases. For us, that's today.
Labour's new shadow chancellor said an exit strategy from the lockdown needs to be "driven by the scientific evidence, but also by what hasn't worked in other countries".
So they will be ok with waiting for a bit then until people have had chance to model various options? I hope they are.
This is wonderful in that it looks reasonable and thoughtout but, if you think about it enough, is actually still quite quite witless.
"Zimbabwe President Robert Mugabe has been appointed a "goodwill ambassador" by the World Health Organisation, sparking condemnation from human rights and health groups. The WHO's new chief Tedros Ghebreyesus is making the longtime African leader, 93, a goodwill ambassador to help tackle non-communicable diseases such as heart attacks and strokes across Africa."
A whole way of life being destroyed...... Without government support, how will gangs survive? Protection rackets will have collapsed with the shutting of the shops. Drug imports have probably collapsed as well. No one is going out, so street robbery is probably failing sector. Burglary won't work - except as violent home invasions, which the average British Legally Challenged Person (LCP*) is untrained and ill equipped for.
The Legally Challenged sector is looking for help and support from the Government, I'm sure.
*Criminal is a very pejorative word.
Move the whole of the Legally Challenged Sector to Gruinard Island. There the person eventually voted Leader will receive £10m. To make it more like what they've left, caches of knives, guns, crossbows, machetes, drugs, booze and the keys to a speedboat will be hidden around the island.
Food? Not so much... You'll really want that speedboat. But here's the kicker - if you leave before the vote, you lose any rights to that £10m... We could televise it - as Hate Island.
No no.
Gruinard Island is too small. Move them to South Georgia - breath taking landscape. World Heritage grade wildlife refuge. Great opportunities to learn new skills* and explore an open environment.
And in seas around, a constant patrol of haddock. Very, very large haddock.
*Such as how to stand up in 90 mile an hour snow storm when it is -40c
You could have saved yourself a keystroke there, you don't have to specify c in -40°c.
Eh? You either need ° or c, to give no units at all woud be sloppy. As Malmesbury used c and you used °c you were the one who could have saved a keystroke. In fact I'll be impertiant enough to say could have saved yourself 86 keystrokes.
A whole way of life being destroyed...... Without government support, how will gangs survive? Protection rackets will have collapsed with the shutting of the shops. Drug imports have probably collapsed as well. No one is going out, so street robbery is probably failing sector. Burglary won't work - except as violent home invasions, which the average British Legally Challenged Person (LCP*) is untrained and ill equipped for.
The Legally Challenged sector is looking for help and support from the Government, I'm sure.
*Criminal is a very pejorative word.
Move the whole of the Legally Challenged Sector to Gruinard Island. There the person eventually voted Leader will receive £10m. To make it more like what they've left, caches of knives, guns, crossbows, machetes, drugs, booze and the keys to a speedboat will be hidden around the island.
Food? Not so much... You'll really want that speedboat. But here's the kicker - if you leave before the vote, you lose any rights to that £10m... We could televise it - as Hate Island.
No no.
Gruinard Island is too small. Move them to South Georgia - breath taking landscape. World Heritage grade wildlife refuge. Great opportunities to learn new skills* and explore an open environment.
And in seas around, a constant patrol of haddock. Very, very large haddock.
*Such as how to stand up in 90 mile an hour snow storm when it is -40c
You could have saved yourself a keystroke there, you don't have to specify c in -40°c.
Eh? You either need ° or c, to give no units at all woud be sloppy. As Malmesbury used c and you used °c you were the one who could have saved a keystroke. In fact I'll be impertiant enough to say could have saved yourself 86 keystrokes.
A whole way of life being destroyed...... Without government support, how will gangs survive? Protection rackets will have collapsed with the shutting of the shops. Drug imports have probably collapsed as well. No one is going out, so street robbery is probably failing sector. Burglary won't work - except as violent home invasions, which the average British Legally Challenged Person (LCP*) is untrained and ill equipped for.
The Legally Challenged sector is looking for help and support from the Government, I'm sure.
*Criminal is a very pejorative word.
Move the whole of the Legally Challenged Sector to Gruinard Island. There the person eventually voted Leader will receive £10m. To make it more like what they've left, caches of knives, guns, crossbows, machetes, drugs, booze and the keys to a speedboat will be hidden around the island.
Food? Not so much... You'll really want that speedboat. But here's the kicker - if you leave before the vote, you lose any rights to that £10m... We could televise it - as Hate Island.
No no.
Gruinard Island is too small. Move them to South Georgia - breath taking landscape. World Heritage grade wildlife refuge. Great opportunities to learn new skills* and explore an open environment.
And in seas around, a constant patrol of haddock. Very, very large haddock.
*Such as how to stand up in 90 mile an hour snow storm when it is -40c
You could have saved yourself a keystroke there, you don't have to specify c in -40°c.
Eh? You either need ° or c, to give no units at all woud be sloppy. As Malmesbury used c and you used °c you were the one who could have saved a keystroke. In fact I'll be impertiant enough to say could have saved yourself 86 keystrokes.
He means it's the same in fahrenheit and celsius, the two most frequently used temperature scales.
11:49am Progress on groundbreaking German antibody test This just in from Justin Huggler, our man in Berlin:
A groundbreaking study in Germany has found that far more people may have been infected with the coronavirus than previously thought, suggesting the real death rate is as low as 0.37 per cent and that 15 per cent of people may already have immunity.
"This means a gradual relaxation of the lockdown is now possible," Prof Hendrik Streeck, the leader of the study said.
Prof Streeck and his team are testing over 400 households in Gangelt, the town at the centre of Germany's most serious outbreak, for antibodies to the virus.
It should be noted that the evaluation of the Gangelt testing programme is still ongoing. A number of 1,000 people out of a population of 12,000 had been selected as representative. 400 results are only a subset. An even clearer picture may emerge from the other testing programmes. On Sunday a study in Munich has begun, testing 3,000 households. Other testing programmes are to start in Baden-Württemberg (Freiburg), Hesse (near Frankfurt) and here in Hamburg, over the next weeks.
But experts now believe the jab is pointless for most children, who are at very low risk of the disease anyway.
Thankfully they never grow up.
The vaccine isn't for life.
So I went through all that for nothing?!
Indeed. That's why it was stopped. From that article:
Experts believe if you are not in one of the high risk groups, your chances of getting TB are one in 100,000.
The BCG vaccine is thought to offer protection for around 15 years.
However, it is not effective for everyone. In the UK, only around two thirds of those who receive the vaccination are believed to be protected. Some trials have suggested protection could be as low as 30%.
Therefore, for every 5,000 children vaccinated, one case of TB would be prevented over the following 15 years.
Experts say that is hugely cost-ineffective.
The British Thoracic Society said it supported the decision to stop the school BCG programme.
The article doesn't say that at all: it says the vaccine was unnecessary, not that it was ineffective. Anyway, who is interested in its effectiveness *against TB* just at the moment?
We have already left so it is not about remaining but the deal or even no deal outcome that is relevant. We are not re-joining
That's right. But the Deal could be to extend the Transition indefinitely together with a temporary restoration of voting rights. The latter would be a democratic imperative if we were talking about a prolonged period - especially given the pan European economic and monetary measures that will probably be needed post pandemic. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Brexit is dead or anything ridiculous. Just that it's on pause for the foreseeable future. We can have a think about leaving again in due course. No doubt we will.
A whole way of life being destroyed...... Without government support, how will gangs survive? Protection rackets will have collapsed with the shutting of the shops. Drug imports have probably collapsed as well. No one is going out, so street robbery is probably failing sector. Burglary won't work - except as violent home invasions, which the average British Legally Challenged Person (LCP*) is untrained and ill equipped for.
The Legally Challenged sector is looking for help and support from the Government, I'm sure.
*Criminal is a very pejorative word.
Move the whole of the Legally Challenged Sector to Gruinard Island. There the person eventually voted Leader will receive £10m. To make it more like what they've left, caches of knives, guns, crossbows, machetes, drugs, booze and the keys to a speedboat will be hidden around the island.
Food? Not so much... You'll really want that speedboat. But here's the kicker - if you leave before the vote, you lose any rights to that £10m... We could televise it - as Hate Island.
No no.
Gruinard Island is too small. Move them to South Georgia - breath taking landscape. World Heritage grade wildlife refuge. Great opportunities to learn new skills* and explore an open environment.
And in seas around, a constant patrol of haddock. Very, very large haddock.
*Such as how to stand up in 90 mile an hour snow storm when it is -40c
You could have saved yourself a keystroke there, you don't have to specify c in -40°c.
Eh? You either need ° or c, to give no units at all woud be sloppy. As Malmesbury used c and you used °c you were the one who could have saved a keystroke. In fact I'll be impertiant enough to say could have saved yourself 86 keystrokes.
Figures down again - 20% down day on day for number of NHS website self diagnosis
From this, and the hospital admissions, it does seem that the curve is definitely flattening, which is good news.
It depends what curve you're talking about. New cases in reality (as opposed to number tested for) clearly peaked a while ago. The revision to the daily charts yesterday suggests hospital admissions have also peaked now. So we're just left waiting the time lag for the sad impact of prior admissions to reflect in the death figures.
A whole way of life being destroyed...... Without government support, how will gangs survive? Protection rackets will have collapsed with the shutting of the shops. Drug imports have probably collapsed as well. No one is going out, so street robbery is probably failing sector. Burglary won't work - except as violent home invasions, which the average British Legally Challenged Person (LCP*) is untrained and ill equipped for.
The Legally Challenged sector is looking for help and support from the Government, I'm sure.
*Criminal is a very pejorative word.
Move the whole of the Legally Challenged Sector to Gruinard Island. There the person eventually voted Leader will receive £10m. To make it more like what they've left, caches of knives, guns, crossbows, machetes, drugs, booze and the keys to a speedboat will be hidden around the island.
Food? Not so much... You'll really want that speedboat. But here's the kicker - if you leave before the vote, you lose any rights to that £10m... We could televise it - as Hate Island.
No no.
Gruinard Island is too small. Move them to South Georgia - breath taking landscape. World Heritage grade wildlife refuge. Great opportunities to learn new skills* and explore an open environment.
And in seas around, a constant patrol of haddock. Very, very large haddock.
*Such as how to stand up in 90 mile an hour snow storm when it is -40c
You could have saved yourself a keystroke there, you don't have to specify c in -40°c.
Eh? You either need ° or c, to give no units at all woud be sloppy. As Malmesbury used c and you used °c you were the one who could have saved a keystroke. In fact I'll be impertiant enough to say could have saved yourself 86 keystrokes.
He means it's the same in fahrenheit and celsius, the two most frequently used temperature scales.
But experts now believe the jab is pointless for most children, who are at very low risk of the disease anyway.
Thankfully they never grow up.
The vaccine isn't for life.
So I went through all that for nothing?!
Indeed. That's why it was stopped. From that article:
Experts believe if you are not in one of the high risk groups, your chances of getting TB are one in 100,000.
The BCG vaccine is thought to offer protection for around 15 years.
However, it is not effective for everyone. In the UK, only around two thirds of those who receive the vaccination are believed to be protected. Some trials have suggested protection could be as low as 30%.
Therefore, for every 5,000 children vaccinated, one case of TB would be prevented over the following 15 years.
Experts say that is hugely cost-ineffective.
The British Thoracic Society said it supported the decision to stop the school BCG programme.
The article doesn't say that at all: it says the vaccine was unnecessary, not that it was ineffective. Anyway, who is interested in its effectiveness *against TB* just at the moment?
There was a study saying those with the BCG vaccine might be less at risk from coronavirus (see the first comment in the nested replies).
A whole way of life being destroyed...... Without government support, how will gangs survive? Protection rackets will have collapsed with the shutting of the shops. Drug imports have probably collapsed as well. No one is going out, so street robbery is probably failing sector. Burglary won't work - except as violent home invasions, which the average British Legally Challenged Person (LCP*) is untrained and ill equipped for.
The Legally Challenged sector is looking for help and support from the Government, I'm sure.
*Criminal is a very pejorative word.
Move the whole of the Legally Challenged Sector to Gruinard Island. There the person eventually voted Leader will receive £10m. To make it more like what they've left, caches of knives, guns, crossbows, machetes, drugs, booze and the keys to a speedboat will be hidden around the island.
Food? Not so much... You'll really want that speedboat. But here's the kicker - if you leave before the vote, you lose any rights to that £10m... We could televise it - as Hate Island.
No no.
Gruinard Island is too small. Move them to South Georgia - breath taking landscape. World Heritage grade wildlife refuge. Great opportunities to learn new skills* and explore an open environment.
And in seas around, a constant patrol of haddock. Very, very large haddock.
*Such as how to stand up in 90 mile an hour snow storm when it is -40c
You could have saved yourself a keystroke there, you don't have to specify c in -40°c.
Eh? You either need ° or c, to give no units at all woud be sloppy. As Malmesbury used c and you used °c you were the one who could have saved a keystroke. In fact I'll be impertiant enough to say could have saved yourself 86 keystrokes.
He means it's the same in fahrenheit and celsius, the two most frequently used temperature scales.
Figures down again - 20% down day on day for number of NHS website self diagnosis
From this, and the hospital admissions, it does seem that the curve is definitely flattening, which is good news.
It depends what curve you're talking about. New cases in reality (as opposed to number tested for) clearly peaked a while ago. The revision to the daily charts yesterday suggests hospital admissions have also peaked now. So we're just left waiting the time lag for the sad impact of prior admissions to reflect in the death figures.
But experts now believe the jab is pointless for most children, who are at very low risk of the disease anyway.
Thankfully they never grow up.
The vaccine isn't for life.
So I went through all that for nothing?!
Indeed. That's why it was stopped. From that article:
Experts believe if you are not in one of the high risk groups, your chances of getting TB are one in 100,000.
The BCG vaccine is thought to offer protection for around 15 years.
However, it is not effective for everyone. In the UK, only around two thirds of those who receive the vaccination are believed to be protected. Some trials have suggested protection could be as low as 30%.
Therefore, for every 5,000 children vaccinated, one case of TB would be prevented over the following 15 years.
Experts say that is hugely cost-ineffective.
The British Thoracic Society said it supported the decision to stop the school BCG programme.
The article doesn't say that at all: it says the vaccine was unnecessary, not that it was ineffective. Anyway, who is interested in its effectiveness *against TB* just at the moment?
There was a study saying those with the BCG vaccine might be less at risk from coronavirus (see the first comment in the nested replies).
Yes, I am well aware of that. But why would its effectiveness against CV necessarily be coterminous with its efectiveness against TB?
How are we doing at the 2-weeks behind Italy measure?
The predictable use of it by Boris haters only when we were around the same or worse than Italy is the only reason I ever mentioned it. I just wanted to point out you wouldn’t until you could use it as a criticism, and said so at the time. They call it a free option.
Second time you’ve fallen into the trap.
And you only mentioned it when you wanted to push your whole oblique isn't this a total over reaction about nothing narrative.
Motes and eyes and all that.
As was pointed out it was the direction of travel not the exact numbers that was important.
No, completely wrong. I only mentioned it because I knew it was being used as a free option by critics of Boris government - they threw it out there &, if things got bad, they’d mention it, as you are, and if they went well, they’d wouldn’t. I did it to predict your current posts, and I said that’s why I was doing so at the time. How would I know whether we would fare worse or better than Italy? I wouldn’t care to guess.
‘A total over reaction about nothing’ - how can you so brazenly lie and misrepresent? I said all along I was complying with the lockdown and social distancing, but a small part of me wondered whether it might be an over reaction.Its on here, in quotes. Pitiful, predictable, misrepresentation from you.
How many people have REALLY been infected with coronavirus? German scientists claim only 6% of cases have been spotted worldwide (and say the rate for the UK is just 1.2%).
If you take the worldometer stats, the % in UK that we KNOW have been infected is 0.09%. If we assumed that, say, for every 1 infection that we know about there are 20 that we don`t know about then that still only makes the percentage 1.8%.
But experts now believe the jab is pointless for most children, who are at very low risk of the disease anyway.
Thankfully they never grow up.
The vaccine isn't for life.
So I went through all that for nothing?!
Indeed. That's why it was stopped. From that article:
Experts believe if you are not in one of the high risk groups, your chances of getting TB are one in 100,000.
The BCG vaccine is thought to offer protection for around 15 years.
However, it is not effective for everyone. In the UK, only around two thirds of those who receive the vaccination are believed to be protected. Some trials have suggested protection could be as low as 30%.
Therefore, for every 5,000 children vaccinated, one case of TB would be prevented over the following 15 years.
Experts say that is hugely cost-ineffective.
The British Thoracic Society said it supported the decision to stop the school BCG programme.
The article doesn't say that at all: it says the vaccine was unnecessary, not that it was ineffective. Anyway, who is interested in its effectiveness *against TB* just at the moment?
There was a study saying those with the BCG vaccine might be less at risk from coronavirus (see the first comment in the nested replies).
Yes, I am well aware of that. But why would its effectiveness against CV necessarily be coterminous with its efectiveness against TB?
Well, if the vaccine lasts only a decade or so that might be relevant? Sorry for wandering off topic!
But it's always the case that events come along that the government must react to which nobody foresaw and which were mentioned in no manifesto, even if they're usually not as all-consuming as this one. That's one reason why I think it's reasonable to vote not merely on policies and manifesto commitments but on the more general question of whether a party's political philosophy and outlook seem sensible and in accord with your own -- you are of necessity trying to judge whether they'll make the right choices on both the unexpected questions and on the myriad of smaller questions too minor to merit a note in the manifesto.
Plenty of people DO vote that way. I certainly do. I always read every party's manifesto in great detail before I vote Labour but it's mainly out of curiosity, being a politics geek.
But at GE19 there was less of this than usual, I think. It really was about Corbyn and Brexit. Now just a few weeks later both of those are off the table. What's on the table is coronavirus and little else.
How many people have REALLY been infected with coronavirus? German scientists claim only 6% of cases have been spotted worldwide (and say the rate for the UK is just 1.2%).
That seems to fit roughly with the LHSTM estimates, UK was at something like 6%ish detection for those with symptoms. Add on those without.....
On another note - with a little more Italy/Spain data, it looks like lockdown + 16 days is peak cases. For us, that's today.
Although in Spain and Italy it, they were genuine lockdowns. In the UK and Germany we have not really had a lockdown, more like extreme social distancing. So the turning point might be a few days longer under an extreme social distancing policy.
Anyway I expect that, as there are many factors affecting the spread and recording of the virus, the +16 days probably has quite a large standard error.
A whole way of life being destroyed...... Without government support, how will gangs survive? Protection rackets will have collapsed with the shutting of the shops. Drug imports have probably collapsed as well. No one is going out, so street robbery is probably failing sector. Burglary won't work - except as violent home invasions, which the average British Legally Challenged Person (LCP*) is untrained and ill equipped for.
The Legally Challenged sector is looking for help and support from the Government, I'm sure.
*Criminal is a very pejorative word.
Move the whole of the Legally Challenged Sector to Gruinard Island. There the person eventually voted Leader will receive £10m. To make it more like what they've left, caches of knives, guns, crossbows, machetes, drugs, booze and the keys to a speedboat will be hidden around the island.
Food? Not so much... You'll really want that speedboat. But here's the kicker - if you leave before the vote, you lose any rights to that £10m... We could televise it - as Hate Island.
No no.
Gruinard Island is too small. Move them to South Georgia - breath taking landscape. World Heritage grade wildlife refuge. Great opportunities to learn new skills* and explore an open environment.
And in seas around, a constant patrol of haddock. Very, very large haddock.
*Such as how to stand up in 90 mile an hour snow storm when it is -40c
You could have saved yourself a keystroke there, you don't have to specify c in -40°c.
Eh? You either need ° or c, to give no units at all woud be sloppy. As Malmesbury used c and you used °c you were the one who could have saved a keystroke. In fact I'll be impertiant enough to say could have saved yourself 86 keystrokes.
He means it's the same in fahrenheit and celsius, the two most frequently used temperature scales.
And its not possible to get -40 Kelvin.
in some of my experiments, I regularly get population distributions consistent with negative temperatures.
I also like Atkins' attempt to discuss temperature solely in terms of increments of 1/kT
How many people have REALLY been infected with coronavirus? German scientists claim only 6% of cases have been spotted worldwide (and say the rate for the UK is just 1.2%).
If you take the worldometer stats, the % in UK that we KNOW have been infected is 0.09%. If we assumed that, say, for every 1 infection that we know about there are 20 that we don`t know about then that still only makes the percentage 1.8%.
The scientist's claim is that we only know about 1 in every 83 cases in the UK, not 1 in 20.
We have already left so it is not about remaining but the deal or even no deal outcome that is relevant. We are not re-joining
That's right. But the Deal could be to extend the Transition indefinitely together with a temporary restoration of voting rights. The latter would be a democratic imperative if we were talking about a prolonged period - especially given the pan European economic and monetary measures that will probably be needed post pandemic. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Brexit is dead or anything ridiculous. Just that it's on pause for the foreseeable future. We can have a think about leaving again in due course. No doubt we will.
You live in a fantasy world
Kinabalu is motivated by two very strong wishes: 1) that we don`t leave the EU (even tho we already have) and 2) a Lab government. He is weaving a narrative that fits these two wishes.
How many people have REALLY been infected with coronavirus? German scientists claim only 6% of cases have been spotted worldwide (and say the rate for the UK is just 1.2%).
If you take the worldometer stats, the % in UK that we KNOW have been infected is 0.09%. If we assumed that, say, for every 1 infection that we know about there are 20 that we don`t know about then that still only makes the percentage 1.8%.
The scientist's claim is that we only know about 1 in every 83 cases in the UK, not 1 in 20.
Wow - I find that surprising, but great news if true. That would make the percentage 7.5%.
But experts now believe the jab is pointless for most children, who are at very low risk of the disease anyway.
Thankfully they never grow up.
The vaccine isn't for life.
So I went through all that for nothing?!
Indeed. That's why it was stopped. From that article:
Experts believe if you are not in one of the high risk groups, your chances of getting TB are one in 100,000.
The BCG vaccine is thought to offer protection for around 15 years.
However, it is not effective for everyone. In the UK, only around two thirds of those who receive the vaccination are believed to be protected. Some trials have suggested protection could be as low as 30%.
Therefore, for every 5,000 children vaccinated, one case of TB would be prevented over the following 15 years.
Experts say that is hugely cost-ineffective.
The British Thoracic Society said it supported the decision to stop the school BCG programme.
The article doesn't say that at all: it says the vaccine was unnecessary, not that it was ineffective. Anyway, who is interested in its effectiveness *against TB* just at the moment?
There was a study saying those with the BCG vaccine might be less at risk from coronavirus (see the first comment in the nested replies).
Yes, I am well aware of that. But why would its effectiveness against CV necessarily be coterminous with its efectiveness against TB?
Well, if the vaccine lasts only a decade or so that might be relevant? Sorry for wandering off topic!
No, because "lasts" in this context only means (because there is only any evidence for it to mean) "appears to be effective *in preventing **TB**.*"
A whole way of life being destroyed...... Without government support, how will gangs survive? Protection rackets will have collapsed with the shutting of the shops. Drug imports have probably collapsed as well. No one is going out, so street robbery is probably failing sector. Burglary won't work - except as violent home invasions, which the average British Legally Challenged Person (LCP*) is untrained and ill equipped for.
The Legally Challenged sector is looking for help and support from the Government, I'm sure.
*Criminal is a very pejorative word.
Move the whole of the Legally Challenged Sector to Gruinard Island. There the person eventually voted Leader will receive £10m. To make it more like what they've left, caches of knives, guns, crossbows, machetes, drugs, booze and the keys to a speedboat will be hidden around the island.
Food? Not so much... You'll really want that speedboat. But here's the kicker - if you leave before the vote, you lose any rights to that £10m... We could televise it - as Hate Island.
No no.
Gruinard Island is too small. Move them to South Georgia - breath taking landscape. World Heritage grade wildlife refuge. Great opportunities to learn new skills* and explore an open environment.
And in seas around, a constant patrol of haddock. Very, very large haddock.
*Such as how to stand up in 90 mile an hour snow storm when it is -40c
You could have saved yourself a keystroke there, you don't have to specify c in -40°c.
Eh? You either need ° or c, to give no units at all woud be sloppy. As Malmesbury used c and you used °c you were the one who could have saved a keystroke. In fact I'll be impertiant enough to say could have saved yourself 86 keystrokes.
He means it's the same in fahrenheit and celsius, the two most frequently used temperature scales.
And its not possible to get -40 Kelvin.
in some of my experiments, I regularly get population distributions consistent with negative temperatures.
I also like Atkins' attempt to discuss temperature solely in terms of increments of 1/kT
Such brazen admission of breaking the laws of thermodynamics. Aren't you worried that you'll get your collar felt?
But experts now believe the jab is pointless for most children, who are at very low risk of the disease anyway.
Thankfully they never grow up.
The vaccine isn't for life.
So I went through all that for nothing?!
Indeed. That's why it was stopped. From that article:
Experts believe if you are not in one of the high risk groups, your chances of getting TB are one in 100,000.
The BCG vaccine is thought to offer protection for around 15 years.
However, it is not effective for everyone. In the UK, only around two thirds of those who receive the vaccination are believed to be protected. Some trials have suggested protection could be as low as 30%.
Therefore, for every 5,000 children vaccinated, one case of TB would be prevented over the following 15 years.
Experts say that is hugely cost-ineffective.
The British Thoracic Society said it supported the decision to stop the school BCG programme.
The article doesn't say that at all: it says the vaccine was unnecessary, not that it was ineffective. Anyway, who is interested in its effectiveness *against TB* just at the moment?
There was a study saying those with the BCG vaccine might be less at risk from coronavirus (see the first comment in the nested replies).
Yes, I am well aware of that. But why would its effectiveness against CV necessarily be coterminous with its efectiveness against TB?
Well, if the vaccine lasts only a decade or so that might be relevant? Sorry for wandering off topic!
No, because "lasts" in this context only means (because there is only any evidence for it to mean) "appears to be effective *in preventing **TB**.*"
Who knows how the protection against coronavirus is linked to the protection against TB. I don't think it can be immediately dismissed as irrelevant.
How many people have REALLY been infected with coronavirus? German scientists claim only 6% of cases have been spotted worldwide (and say the rate for the UK is just 1.2%).
That 1.2% figure is very much in line with received wisdom in this country. Why shouldn't it be, given the fact that we gave up testing any but hospital cases weeks ago?
A whole way of life being destroyed...... Without government support, how will gangs survive? Protection rackets will have collapsed with the shutting of the shops. Drug imports have probably collapsed as well. No one is going out, so street robbery is probably failing sector. Burglary won't work - except as violent home invasions, which the average British Legally Challenged Person (LCP*) is untrained and ill equipped for.
The Legally Challenged sector is looking for help and support from the Government, I'm sure.
*Criminal is a very pejorative word.
Move the whole of the Legally Challenged Sector to Gruinard Island. There the person eventually voted Leader will receive £10m. To make it more like what they've left, caches of knives, guns, crossbows, machetes, drugs, booze and the keys to a speedboat will be hidden around the island.
Food? Not so much... You'll really want that speedboat. But here's the kicker - if you leave before the vote, you lose any rights to that £10m... We could televise it - as Hate Island.
No no.
Gruinard Island is too small. Move them to South Georgia - breath taking landscape. World Heritage grade wildlife refuge. Great opportunities to learn new skills* and explore an open environment.
And in seas around, a constant patrol of haddock. Very, very large haddock.
*Such as how to stand up in 90 mile an hour snow storm when it is -40c
You could have saved yourself a keystroke there, you don't have to specify c in -40°c.
Eh? You either need ° or c, to give no units at all woud be sloppy. As Malmesbury used c and you used °c you were the one who could have saved a keystroke. In fact I'll be impertiant enough to say could have saved yourself 86 keystrokes.
He means it's the same in fahrenheit and celsius, the two most frequently used temperature scales.
Yes I realise that. But you do need to say either ° or c. Which Malmesbury did.
A whole way of life being destroyed...... Without government support, how will gangs survive? Protection rackets will have collapsed with the shutting of the shops. Drug imports have probably collapsed as well. No one is going out, so street robbery is probably failing sector. Burglary won't work - except as violent home invasions, which the average British Legally Challenged Person (LCP*) is untrained and ill equipped for.
The Legally Challenged sector is looking for help and support from the Government, I'm sure.
*Criminal is a very pejorative word.
Move the whole of the Legally Challenged Sector to Gruinard Island. There the person eventually voted Leader will receive £10m. To make it more like what they've left, caches of knives, guns, crossbows, machetes, drugs, booze and the keys to a speedboat will be hidden around the island.
Food? Not so much... You'll really want that speedboat. But here's the kicker - if you leave before the vote, you lose any rights to that £10m... We could televise it - as Hate Island.
No no.
Gruinard Island is too small. Move them to South Georgia - breath taking landscape. World Heritage grade wildlife refuge. Great opportunities to learn new skills* and explore an open environment.
And in seas around, a constant patrol of haddock. Very, very large haddock.
*Such as how to stand up in 90 mile an hour snow storm when it is -40c
You could have saved yourself a keystroke there, you don't have to specify c in -40°c.
Other temperature scales that use °
Rankine (°R or °Ra) Delisle (°D) Newton (°N) Réaumur (°Ré) Rømer (°Rø) Wedgwood (°W)
"“It’s a disgrace for the Eurogroup and for Europe,” exploded France’s finance minister Bruno Le Maire. “While we are counting thousands of deaths, the finance ministers play with words and adjectives. We’re going to be judged severely by the markets and by our own populations.”"
"Italy’s premier says Europe will lose its “raison d’etre” if it fails to come through with anything beyond loans on insulting Dutch terms in the greatest peace-time shock for a hundred years or more. Why should Italy continue to give up the sovereign tools of self-defence if the EU will not act? "
EU to collapse (!) quite soon. Now where have I heard that before?
We have already left so it is not about remaining but the deal or even no deal outcome that is relevant. We are not re-joining
That's right. But the Deal could be to extend the Transition indefinitely together with a temporary restoration of voting rights. The latter would be a democratic imperative if we were talking about a prolonged period - especially given the pan European economic and monetary measures that will probably be needed post pandemic. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Brexit is dead or anything ridiculous. Just that it's on pause for the foreseeable future. We can have a think about leaving again in due course. No doubt we will.
You live in a fantasy world
Kinabalu is motivated by two very strong wishes: 1) that we don`t leave the EU (even tho we already have) and 2) a Lab government. He is weaving a narrative that fits these two wishes.
Given 1) we've left and 2) current Conservative VI is at historic highs, I think fantasy is understating it....
Boris could be facing the whatever the opposite of a 'perfect storm' is here. Let's assume he already has the Leaver vote in the bag. If the COVID-19 crisis is resolved reasonably well, then he could also enjoy the gratitude of Remainers and Brexit neutrals who put health and well being above anything else. That may not leave much left for the other parties to pick over.
A whole way of life being destroyed...... Without government support, how will gangs survive? Protection rackets will have collapsed with the shutting of the shops. Drug imports have probably collapsed as well. No one is going out, so street robbery is probably failing sector. Burglary won't work - except as violent home invasions, which the average British Legally Challenged Person (LCP*) is untrained and ill equipped for.
The Legally Challenged sector is looking for help and support from the Government, I'm sure.
*Criminal is a very pejorative word.
Move the whole of the Legally Challenged Sector to Gruinard Island. There the person eventually voted Leader will receive £10m. To make it more like what they've left, caches of knives, guns, crossbows, machetes, drugs, booze and the keys to a speedboat will be hidden around the island.
Food? Not so much... You'll really want that speedboat. But here's the kicker - if you leave before the vote, you lose any rights to that £10m... We could televise it - as Hate Island.
No no.
Gruinard Island is too small. Move them to South Georgia - breath taking landscape. World Heritage grade wildlife refuge. Great opportunities to learn new skills* and explore an open environment.
And in seas around, a constant patrol of haddock. Very, very large haddock.
*Such as how to stand up in 90 mile an hour snow storm when it is -40c
You could have saved yourself a keystroke there, you don't have to specify c in -40°c.
Eh? You either need ° or c, to give no units at all woud be sloppy. As Malmesbury used c and you used °c you were the one who could have saved a keystroke. In fact I'll be impertiant enough to say could have saved yourself 86 keystrokes.
He means it's the same in fahrenheit and celsius, the two most frequently used temperature scales.
Yes I realise that. But you do need to say either ° or c. Which Malmesbury did.
I think saying "when it is -40" is clear that refers to a temperature. The units are not essential as it's the same for both scales.
I hadn't considered it before because I'd assumed the EU would force us to go through a reaccession process if we wanted to rejoin, but maybe there could be a treaty to nullify the withdrawal agreement instead.
That would seem the easiest way forward should it come to it.
But experts now believe the jab is pointless for most children, who are at very low risk of the disease anyway.
Thankfully they never grow up.
The vaccine isn't for life.
So I went through all that for nothing?!
Indeed. That's why it was stopped. From that article:
Experts believe if you are not in one of the high risk groups, your chances of getting TB are one in 100,000.
The BCG vaccine is thought to offer protection for around 15 years.
However, it is not effective for everyone. In the UK, only around two thirds of those who receive the vaccination are believed to be protected. Some trials have suggested protection could be as low as 30%.
Therefore, for every 5,000 children vaccinated, one case of TB would be prevented over the following 15 years.
Experts say that is hugely cost-ineffective.
The British Thoracic Society said it supported the decision to stop the school BCG programme.
The article doesn't say that at all: it says the vaccine was unnecessary, not that it was ineffective. Anyway, who is interested in its effectiveness *against TB* just at the moment?
There was a study saying those with the BCG vaccine might be less at risk from coronavirus (see the first comment in the nested replies).
Yes, I am well aware of that. But why would its effectiveness against CV necessarily be coterminous with its efectiveness against TB?
Well, if the vaccine lasts only a decade or so that might be relevant? Sorry for wandering off topic!
No, because "lasts" in this context only means (because there is only any evidence for it to mean) "appears to be effective *in preventing **TB**.*"
Who knows how the protection against coronavirus is linked to the protection against TB. I don't think it can be immediately dismissed as irrelevant.
Which is why I wasn't doing that, I was objecting to treating it as conclusive.
A whole way of life being destroyed...... Without government support, how will gangs survive? Protection rackets will have collapsed with the shutting of the shops. Drug imports have probably collapsed as well. No one is going out, so street robbery is probably failing sector. Burglary won't work - except as violent home invasions, which the average British Legally Challenged Person (LCP*) is untrained and ill equipped for.
The Legally Challenged sector is looking for help and support from the Government, I'm sure.
*Criminal is a very pejorative word.
Move the whole of the Legally Challenged Sector to Gruinard Island. There the person eventually voted Leader will receive £10m. To make it more like what they've left, caches of knives, guns, crossbows, machetes, drugs, booze and the keys to a speedboat will be hidden around the island.
Food? Not so much... You'll really want that speedboat. But here's the kicker - if you leave before the vote, you lose any rights to that £10m... We could televise it - as Hate Island.
No no.
Gruinard Island is too small. Move them to South Georgia - breath taking landscape. World Heritage grade wildlife refuge. Great opportunities to learn new skills* and explore an open environment.
And in seas around, a constant patrol of haddock. Very, very large haddock.
*Such as how to stand up in 90 mile an hour snow storm when it is -40c
You could have saved yourself a keystroke there, you don't have to specify c in -40°c.
Eh? You either need ° or c, to give no units at all woud be sloppy. As Malmesbury used c and you used °c you were the one who could have saved a keystroke. In fact I'll be impertiant enough to say could have saved yourself 86 keystrokes.
He means it's the same in fahrenheit and celsius, the two most frequently used temperature scales.
And its not possible to get -40 Kelvin.
in some of my experiments, I regularly get population distributions consistent with negative temperatures.
I also like Atkins' attempt to discuss temperature solely in terms of increments of 1/kT
Such brazen admission of breaking the laws of thermodynamics. Aren't you worried that you'll get your collar felt?
Maybe BinnedinParis is about to do an Einstein and propose a relativity theory of thermodynamics.
A whole way of life being destroyed...... Without government support, how will gangs survive? Protection rackets will have collapsed with the shutting of the shops. Drug imports have probably collapsed as well. No one is going out, so street robbery is probably failing sector. Burglary won't work - except as violent home invasions, which the average British Legally Challenged Person (LCP*) is untrained and ill equipped for.
The Legally Challenged sector is looking for help and support from the Government, I'm sure.
*Criminal is a very pejorative word.
Move the whole of the Legally Challenged Sector to Gruinard Island. There the person eventually voted Leader will receive £10m. To make it more like what they've left, caches of knives, guns, crossbows, machetes, drugs, booze and the keys to a speedboat will be hidden around the island.
Food? Not so much... You'll really want that speedboat. But here's the kicker - if you leave before the vote, you lose any rights to that £10m... We could televise it - as Hate Island.
No no.
Gruinard Island is too small. Move them to South Georgia - breath taking landscape. World Heritage grade wildlife refuge. Great opportunities to learn new skills* and explore an open environment.
And in seas around, a constant patrol of haddock. Very, very large haddock.
*Such as how to stand up in 90 mile an hour snow storm when it is -40c
You could have saved yourself a keystroke there, you don't have to specify c in -40°c.
Eh? You either need ° or c, to give no units at all woud be sloppy. As Malmesbury used c and you used °c you were the one who could have saved a keystroke. In fact I'll be impertiant enough to say could have saved yourself 86 keystrokes.
He means it's the same in fahrenheit and celsius, the two most frequently used temperature scales.
And its not possible to get -40 Kelvin.
in some of my experiments, I regularly get population distributions consistent with negative temperatures.
I also like Atkins' attempt to discuss temperature solely in terms of increments of 1/kT
Such brazen admission of breaking the laws of thermodynamics. Aren't you worried that you'll get your collar felt?
The old jokey version of the laws of thermodynamics, the last of which is broken in this thread.
There is a game. You can't win but you can break even. You can only break even at absolute zero. You can't get to absolute zero.
But experts now believe the jab is pointless for most children, who are at very low risk of the disease anyway.
Thankfully they never grow up.
The vaccine isn't for life.
So I went through all that for nothing?!
Indeed. That's why it was stopped. From that article:
Experts believe if you are not in one of the high risk groups, your chances of getting TB are one in 100,000.
The BCG vaccine is thought to offer protection for around 15 years.
However, it is not effective for everyone. In the UK, only around two thirds of those who receive the vaccination are believed to be protected. Some trials have suggested protection could be as low as 30%.
Therefore, for every 5,000 children vaccinated, one case of TB would be prevented over the following 15 years.
Experts say that is hugely cost-ineffective.
The British Thoracic Society said it supported the decision to stop the school BCG programme.
The article doesn't say that at all: it says the vaccine was unnecessary, not that it was ineffective. Anyway, who is interested in its effectiveness *against TB* just at the moment?
There was a study saying those with the BCG vaccine might be less at risk from coronavirus (see the first comment in the nested replies).
Yes, I am well aware of that. But why would its effectiveness against CV necessarily be coterminous with its efectiveness against TB?
Well, if the vaccine lasts only a decade or so that might be relevant? Sorry for wandering off topic!
No, because "lasts" in this context only means (because there is only any evidence for it to mean) "appears to be effective *in preventing **TB**.*"
Who knows how the protection against coronavirus is linked to the protection against TB. I don't think it can be immediately dismissed as irrelevant.
Which is why I wasn't doing that, I was objecting to treating it as conclusive.
I don't think anyone was doing that. I just said it might be relevant. The discussion about BCG came about because I was wondering why the vaccination program was stopped, that's the context of the comments about effectiveness, not the relation to coronavirus.
A whole way of life being destroyed...... Without government support, how will gangs survive? Protection rackets will have collapsed with the shutting of the shops. Drug imports have probably collapsed as well. No one is going out, so street robbery is probably failing sector. Burglary won't work - except as violent home invasions, which the average British Legally Challenged Person (LCP*) is untrained and ill equipped for.
The Legally Challenged sector is looking for help and support from the Government, I'm sure.
*Criminal is a very pejorative word.
Move the whole of the Legally Challenged Sector to Gruinard Island. There the person eventually voted Leader will receive £10m. To make it more like what they've left, caches of knives, guns, crossbows, machetes, drugs, booze and the keys to a speedboat will be hidden around the island.
Food? Not so much... You'll really want that speedboat. But here's the kicker - if you leave before the vote, you lose any rights to that £10m... We could televise it - as Hate Island.
No no.
Gruinard Island is too small. Move them to South Georgia - breath taking landscape. World Heritage grade wildlife refuge. Great opportunities to learn new skills* and explore an open environment.
And in seas around, a constant patrol of haddock. Very, very large haddock.
*Such as how to stand up in 90 mile an hour snow storm when it is -40c
You could have saved yourself a keystroke there, you don't have to specify c in -40°c.
Eh? You either need ° or c, to give no units at all woud be sloppy. As Malmesbury used c and you used °c you were the one who could have saved a keystroke. In fact I'll be impertiant enough to say could have saved yourself 86 keystrokes.
He means it's the same in fahrenheit and celsius, the two most frequently used temperature scales.
And its not possible to get -40 Kelvin.
in some of my experiments, I regularly get population distributions consistent with negative temperatures.
I also like Atkins' attempt to discuss temperature solely in terms of increments of 1/kT
Such brazen admission of breaking the laws of thermodynamics. Aren't you worried that you'll get your collar felt?
The old jokey version of the laws of thermodynamics, the last of which is broken in this thread.
There is a game. You can't win but you can break even. You can only break even at absolute zero. You can't get to absolute zero.
A whole way of life being destroyed...... Without government support, how will gangs survive? Protection rackets will have collapsed with the shutting of the shops. Drug imports have probably collapsed as well. No one is going out, so street robbery is probably failing sector. Burglary won't work - except as violent home invasions, which the average British Legally Challenged Person (LCP*) is untrained and ill equipped for.
The Legally Challenged sector is looking for help and support from the Government, I'm sure.
*Criminal is a very pejorative word.
Move the whole of the Legally Challenged Sector to Gruinard Island. There the person eventually voted Leader will receive £10m. To make it more like what they've left, caches of knives, guns, crossbows, machetes, drugs, booze and the keys to a speedboat will be hidden around the island.
Food? Not so much... You'll really want that speedboat. But here's the kicker - if you leave before the vote, you lose any rights to that £10m... We could televise it - as Hate Island.
No no.
Gruinard Island is too small. Move them to South Georgia - breath taking landscape. World Heritage grade wildlife refuge. Great opportunities to learn new skills* and explore an open environment.
And in seas around, a constant patrol of haddock. Very, very large haddock.
*Such as how to stand up in 90 mile an hour snow storm when it is -40c
You could have saved yourself a keystroke there, you don't have to specify c in -40°c.
Eh? You either need ° or c, to give no units at all woud be sloppy. As Malmesbury used c and you used °c you were the one who could have saved a keystroke. In fact I'll be impertiant enough to say could have saved yourself 86 keystrokes.
He means it's the same in fahrenheit and celsius, the two most frequently used temperature scales.
And its not possible to get -40 Kelvin.
in some of my experiments, I regularly get population distributions consistent with negative temperatures.
I also like Atkins' attempt to discuss temperature solely in terms of increments of 1/kT
Such brazen admission of breaking the laws of thermodynamics. Aren't you worried that you'll get your collar felt?
The old jokey version of the laws of thermodynamics, the last of which is broken in this thread.
There is a game. You can't win but you can break even. You can only break even at absolute zero. You can't get to absolute zero.
5 year mandate was given - that you have butthurt is irrelevant.
My butt is NOT hurting. No more than usual anyway. In any event you are misunderstanding me. The government won power on a false prospectus, yes, but they are not to blame for that. They should and will struggle on - possibly for years. It's unfortunate.
5 year mandate was given - that you have butthurt is irrelevant.
My butt is NOT hurting. No more than usual anyway. In any event you are misunderstanding me. The government won power on a false prospectus, yes, but they are not to blame for that. They should and will struggle on - possibly for years. It's unfortunate.
What "false prospectus" - that there wouldn't be a global pandemic.
11:49am Progress on groundbreaking German antibody test This just in from Justin Huggler, our man in Berlin:
A groundbreaking study in Germany has found that far more people may have been infected with the coronavirus than previously thought, suggesting the real death rate is as low as 0.37 per cent and that 15 per cent of people may already have immunity.
"This means a gradual relaxation of the lockdown is now possible," Prof Hendrik Streeck, the leader of the study said.
Prof Streeck and his team are testing over 400 households in Gangelt, the town at the centre of Germany's most serious outbreak, for antibodies to the virus.
It should be noted that the evaluation of the Gangelt testing programme is still ongoing. A number of 1,000 people out of a population of 12,000 had been selected as representative. 400 results are only a subset. An even clearer picture may emerge from the other testing programmes. On Sunday a study in Munich has begun, testing 3,000 households. Other testing programmes are to start in Baden-Württemberg (Freiburg), Hesse (near Frankfurt) and here in Hamburg, over the next weeks.
That's a perfectly believable figure for the true infection fatality rate, but in that case 15% must relate to that specific area, and the percentage in Germany as a whole must be much smaller. In which case I don't see how "this means" anything whatsoever for the prospect of a relaxation of the lockdown. It would mean little enough even if 15% were the national figure.
5 year mandate was given - that you have butthurt is irrelevant.
My butt is NOT hurting. No more than usual anyway. In any event you are misunderstanding me. The government won power on a false prospectus, yes, but they are not to blame for that. They should and will struggle on - possibly for years. It's unfortunate.
On that basis, Blair should have handed the government over after the Iraq war. Never mind the MPs in the commons or anything like that - just hand it to the opposition.
"the basis on which they won power has been discredited."
!
!!
!!!
As the Tories basis on which they won power has been discredited, that must mean that Labour won the argument so they should have Keith as the PM in a GNU. Or some such bollocks....
"the basis on which they won power has been discredited."
!
!!
!!!
As the Tories basis on which they won power has been discredited, that must mean that Labour won the argument so they should have Keith as the PM in a GNU. Or some such bollocks....
Labour supporters have given up on winning elections so now want their people in government by stealth via the back door.
I suppose global once in a century pandemics are now more likely than Labour majorities...
5 year mandate was given - that you have butthurt is irrelevant.
My butt is NOT hurting. No more than usual anyway. In any event you are misunderstanding me. The government won power on a false prospectus, yes, but they are not to blame for that. They should and will struggle on - possibly for years. It's unfortunate.
What "false prospectus" - that there wouldn't be a global pandemic.
Right..
I'm pretty sure destroying the NHS (means not specified) and killing off the weak and the poor was in our manifesto. So what exactly is kinabalu complaining about?
5 year mandate was given - that you have butthurt is irrelevant.
My butt is NOT hurting. No more than usual anyway. In any event you are misunderstanding me. The government won power on a false prospectus, yes, but they are not to blame for that. They should and will struggle on - possibly for years. It's unfortunate.
On that basis, Blair should have handed the government over after the Iraq war. Never mind the MPs in the commons or anything like that - just hand it to the opposition.
Well, reading these things to a natural conclusion Blair should have handed over the government before the invasion of Afghanistan as that certainly wasn’t in the Labour manifesto of 2001. Nor do I seem to recall did the 2005 Labour manifesto refer to nationalising large swathes of the banking system, nor the Tory manifesto of 1970 talk about moving to a three day week.
I don't see the need for a unity government but the Opposition should be involved to the extent of having open access to all expert briefings and access as required to the ministers that they are shadowing. Parliament was eventually closed after a frightening number of them got the virus but the government still needs to be held to account, challenged by different points of view and made to address awkward facts. This needs to be done more one to one at the moment but it also needs to be done on an informed basis.
This need is all the more urgent given the lamentable performance by the Westminster press pack. Why they are still giving questions to people who may (or may not) know about politics but who seem essentially innumerate and unable to grasp the clear explanations being presented by the experts is beyond me. Surely the media employ some people with science degrees?
This government has made and will continue to make mistakes. Frankly, if they are not making mistakes they are not moving nearly fast enough. The priority is to spot and correct those mistakes early. An opposition led by someone with a brain can assist with that. Its a really important role.
The government is refusing point blank to discuss how it is even making decisions just now. The idea that different questions will elicit answers with any meaning when it is so contemptuous of being held to account and so readily supported by gullible followers is fanciful.
But they have. Cabinet are meeting and cabinet are making decisions.
Collective responsibility is a polite fiction not a decision-making process. Unless you believe that all decisions are inevitably unanimous because no other decision could be reached on the evidence.
Whose finger is on the button?
Raab through Cobra.
Cobra make the decisions and the first ministers implement the same decisions more or less across the devolved nations
Just what is so difficult to understand
Roll forward six months. Imagine the Prime Minister has neither died nor recovered sufficiently to resume his duties. Britain has neither a Prime Minister in reality nor any person taking responsibility for decisions. Who resigns if the government fails? How is that person replaced?
That is the position today. Who does the buck stop with, if that is not an obsolete idea? Because as of right now the answer is no one.
I don’t accept your premise
If Boris is now well enough to resume his duties within 6 months he will resign.
I don't see the need for a unity government but the Opposition should be involved to the extent of having open access to all expert briefings and access as required to the ministers that they are shadowing. Parliament was eventually closed after a frightening number of them got the virus but the government still needs to be held to account, challenged by different points of view and made to address awkward facts. This needs to be done more one to one at the moment but it also needs to be done on an informed basis.
This need is all the more urgent given the lamentable performance by the Westminster press pack. Why they are still giving questions to people who may (or may not) know about politics but who seem essentially innumerate and unable to grasp the clear explanations being presented by the experts is beyond me. Surely the media employ some people with science degrees?
This government has made and will continue to make mistakes. Frankly, if they are not making mistakes they are not moving nearly fast enough. The priority is to spot and correct those mistakes early. An opposition led by someone with a brain can assist with that. Its a really important role.
The government is refusing point blank to discuss how it is even making decisions just now. The idea that different questions will elicit answers with any meaning when it is so contemptuous of being held to account and so readily supported by gullible followers is fanciful.
But they have. Cabinet are meeting and cabinet are making decisions.
Collective responsibility is a polite fiction not a decision-making process. Unless you believe that all decisions are inevitably unanimous because no other decision could be reached on the evidence.
Whose finger is on the button?
Raab through Cobra.
Cobra make the decisions and the first ministers implement the same decisions more or less across the devolved nations
Just what is so difficult to understand
Roll forward six months. Imagine the Prime Minister has neither died nor recovered sufficiently to resume his duties. Britain has neither a Prime Minister in reality nor any person taking responsibility for decisions. Who resigns if the government fails? How is that person replaced?
That is the position today. Who does the buck stop with, if that is not an obsolete idea? Because as of right now the answer is no one.
I don’t accept your premise
If Boris is now well enough to resume his duties within 6 months he will resign.
And someody will be taking decisions .the stand in pm
The YouTube channel that is in trouble over David Icke interview, have had him on a number of times before. It is a very odd channel. It has some perfectly reasonable folks on e.g. Prof David Nutt and Jonathan Haidt, then it has people who might be even too whacky for Alex Jones.
I only know about it because they had a well know fitness / performance coach on and I watched that interview.
When do the measures that we are imposing start killing more people than they are saving?
Labour have spent the past decade telling us austerity costs lives. That austerity is cakewalk compared to the gargantuan depression we are about to induce.
Nobody wants to make the call, and I fear they won;t until its far too late. For me, the time is close. It may already have passed.
I haven't read much about how the French are handling the virus, looking at the stats their testing situation seems to be a step behind even ours, are there any reports on the ground over how much support Macron has at the moment?
5 year mandate was given - that you have butthurt is irrelevant.
My butt is NOT hurting. No more than usual anyway. In any event you are misunderstanding me. The government won power on a false prospectus, yes, but they are not to blame for that. They should and will struggle on - possibly for years. It's unfortunate.
What "false prospectus" - that there wouldn't be a global pandemic.
Right..
I'm pretty sure destroying the NHS (means not specified) and killing off the weak and the poor was in our manifesto. So what exactly is kinabalu complaining about?
Plus they never said they wouldnt put NHS heroes at the back of the testing queue.
But experts now believe the jab is pointless for most children, who are at very low risk of the disease anyway.
Thankfully they never grow up.
The vaccine isn't for life.
So I went through all that for nothing?!
Indeed. That's why it was stopped. From that article:
Experts believe if you are not in one of the high risk groups, your chances of getting TB are one in 100,000.
The BCG vaccine is thought to offer protection for around 15 years.
However, it is not effective for everyone. In the UK, only around two thirds of those who receive the vaccination are believed to be protected. Some trials have suggested protection could be as low as 30%.
Therefore, for every 5,000 children vaccinated, one case of TB would be prevented over the following 15 years.
Experts say that is hugely cost-ineffective.
The British Thoracic Society said it supported the decision to stop the school BCG programme.
The article doesn't say that at all: it says the vaccine was unnecessary, not that it was ineffective. Anyway, who is interested in its effectiveness *against TB* just at the moment?
There was a study saying those with the BCG vaccine might be less at risk from coronavirus (see the first comment in the nested replies).
Yes, I am well aware of that. But why would its effectiveness against CV necessarily be coterminous with its efectiveness against TB?
Well, if the vaccine lasts only a decade or so that might be relevant? Sorry for wandering off topic!
No, because "lasts" in this context only means (because there is only any evidence for it to mean) "appears to be effective *in preventing **TB**.*"
Who knows how the protection against coronavirus is linked to the protection against TB. I don't think it can be immediately dismissed as irrelevant.
Which is why I wasn't doing that, I was objecting to treating it as conclusive.
I don't think anyone was doing that. I just said it might be relevant. The discussion about BCG came about because I was wondering why the vaccination program was stopped, that's the context of the comments about effectiveness, not the relation to coronavirus.
When do the measures that we are imposing start killing more people than they are saving?
Labour have spent the past decade telling us austerity costs lives. That austerity is cakewalk compared to the gargantuan depression we are about to induce.
Nobody wants to make the call, and I fear they won;t until its far too late. For me, the time is close. It may already have passed.
Once the deaths start to drop off the pressure to lift the lockdown will rise dramatically - it's all about direction of travel.
Comments
Experts believe if you are not in one of the high risk groups, your chances of getting TB are one in 100,000.
The BCG vaccine is thought to offer protection for around 15 years.
However, it is not effective for everyone. In the UK, only around two thirds of those who receive the vaccination are believed to be protected. Some trials have suggested protection could be as low as 30%.
Therefore, for every 5,000 children vaccinated, one case of TB would be prevented over the following 15 years.
Experts say that is hugely cost-ineffective.
The British Thoracic Society said it supported the decision to stop the school BCG programme.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8204167/How-people-REALLY-infected-coronavirus.html
"in 1953, 94 children would have to be immunized to prevent one case of TB, by 1988, the annual incidence of TB in the UK had fallen so much, 12,000 children would have to be immunized to prevent a single case of TB."
I guess it can come back if those numbers start rising once again.
https://inews.co.uk/news/world/robert-mugabe-named-goodwill-ambassador-world-health-organisation-518780
"Zimbabwe President Robert Mugabe has been appointed a "goodwill ambassador" by the World Health Organisation, sparking condemnation from human rights and health groups.
The WHO's new chief Tedros Ghebreyesus is making the longtime African leader, 93, a goodwill ambassador to help tackle non-communicable diseases such as heart attacks and strokes across Africa."
On another note - with a little more Italy/Spain data, it looks like lockdown + 16 days is peak cases. For us, that's today.
At least one high-ranking royal, as well as dozens of lower-level officials, have COVID-19, The New York Times reports."
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/04/coronavirus-widespread-saudi-royal-family-report-200409070130026.html
https://twitter.com/MattSingh_/status/1248219973945823235
An even clearer picture may emerge from the other testing programmes. On Sunday a study in Munich has begun, testing 3,000 households.
Other testing programmes are to start in Baden-Württemberg (Freiburg), Hesse (near Frankfurt) and here in Hamburg, over the next weeks.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/ofcom-investigates-london-live-over-coronavirus-conspiracy-interview-csxd0x692
‘A total over reaction about nothing’ - how can you so brazenly lie and misrepresent? I said all along I was complying with the lockdown and social distancing, but a small part of me wondered whether it might be an over reaction.Its on here, in quotes. Pitiful, predictable, misrepresentation from you.
But at GE19 there was less of this than usual, I think. It really was about Corbyn and Brexit. Now just a few weeks later both of those are off the table. What's on the table is coronavirus and little else.
But not brave, obviously.
Anyway I expect that, as there are many factors affecting the spread and recording of the virus, the +16 days probably has quite a large standard error.
I also like Atkins' attempt to discuss temperature solely in terms of increments of 1/kT
https://twitter.com/carryonkeith/status/1248155114478735362?s=20
Rankine (°R or °Ra)
Delisle (°D)
Newton (°N)
Réaumur (°Ré)
Rømer (°Rø)
Wedgwood (°W)
Sorry, where haven't I heard that before?
5 year mandate was given - that you have butthurt is irrelevant.
There is a game.
You can't win but you can break even.
You can only break even at absolute zero.
You can't get to absolute zero.
!
!!
!!!
Negative temperatures are hot.
https://twitter.com/calebjhull/status/1248014050224517120?s=21
Carole Baskin must be shitting herself right now.
Right..
I suppose global once in a century pandemics are now more likely than Labour majorities...
Governments govern.
If Boris is now well enough to resume his duties within 6 months he will resign.
I only know about it because they had a well know fitness / performance coach on and I watched that interview.
When do the measures that we are imposing start killing more people than they are saving?
Labour have spent the past decade telling us austerity costs lives. That austerity is cakewalk compared to the gargantuan depression we are about to induce.
Nobody wants to make the call, and I fear they won;t until its far too late. For me, the time is close. It may already have passed.
Only metaphorically speaking I hope Big G?
So thats consistent with the manifesto too
'Somerset-based Stanley Johnson ignores son Boris Johnson's advice and says he will go to pub'
https://tinyurl.com/tydmfrj
Presumably he's sold the London gaffe where according to the Borisograph BJ was actually brought up.
'Inside Boris Johnson's former family home, which is on the market for £11.25m'
https://tinyurl.com/v959osk
And of course I'm sure he has a lovely place set up in France for when he gets his French citizenship sorted out.
My baby granddaughter has been vaccinated. It seems to be standard practice in London: http://www.cityandhackneyccg.nhs.uk/Downloads/gp/Formulary/ztempdocs/BCG_Protocol.pdf
Could well be middle to end of next week.