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  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Foxy said:

    'My name is Toby Young and I approve this message'

    https://twitter.com/milne25/status/1245062553618743296?s=20

    If this is genuine, where are they getting that list of conditions they refer to?

    It is NOT the list of severely or shielded vulnerable who have had a letter from NHS.
    It is from a GP practice. They would have that information on their database.

    While it is a difficult letter, it is nessecary to discuss whether a DNR is appropriate and should be in the notes. We have had this conversation with my own dear Mother in Law. If she comes down with it, she will stay in her nursing home. She is a former nurse, and while a little muddled, understood the implications of this when we discussed it.
    I can see the DNR bit, but my question is what are they using as the list? The official severely at risk does not include conditions mentioned as examples in this letter.
    The sort of patients to have this discussion with is part of the Respect training. It is part of Mandatory training in most Trusts.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,000
    Charles said:

    'My name is Toby Young and I approve this message'

    https://twitter.com/milne25/status/1245062553618743296?s=20

    I didn’t know that Toby Young was part of the Labour Government of Wales
    Pretty sure Drs Cribb, Stockdale, Hughes and Farrell aren't either.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,385
    Foxy said:

    'My name is Toby Young and I approve this message'

    https://twitter.com/milne25/status/1245062553618743296?s=20

    If this is genuine, where are they getting that list of conditions they refer to?

    It is NOT the list of severely or shielded vulnerable who have had a letter from NHS.
    I am surprised it is the Surgery's responsibility to let patients know that detail. If a patient rocked up to A and E at The Princess of Wales Hospital in Bridgend, surely it would be their job to pass on the bad news.
    No the Respect form has been rolled out this year, so these decisions are made in primary care. At least that is what is happening, but it sounds as if Wales is similar.

    https://www.resus.org.uk/respect/
    It's rather stark!

    Am I the only one getting the impression thegovernment's hitherto slick messaging is beginning to unravel this evening?

    Is this because one or both of Cummings and Johnson are temporarily out of the picture?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,767

    eadric said:

    A harrowing day. And many more to come

    Busy on Penarth Pier then?
    Pol Roger was sold out at Branwen's corner shop.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    'My name is Toby Young and I approve this message'

    https://twitter.com/milne25/status/1245062553618743296?s=20

    If this is genuine, where are they getting that list of conditions they refer to?

    It is NOT the list of severely or shielded vulnerable who have had a letter from NHS.
    It is from a GP practice. They would have that information on their database.

    While it is a difficult letter, it is nessecary to discuss whether a DNR is appropriate and should be in the notes. We have had this conversation with my own dear Mother in Law. If she comes down with it, she will stay in her nursing home. She is a former nurse, and while a little muddled, understood the implications of this when we discussed it.
    I can see the DNR bit, but my question is what are they using as the list? The official severely at risk does not include conditions mentioned as examples in this letter.
    The sort of patients to have this discussion with is part of the Respect training. It is part of Mandatory training in most Trusts.
    The letter doesn’t scream respect...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,385
    edited March 2020

    eadric said:

    A harrowing day. And many more to come

    Busy on Penarth Pier then?
    Pol Roger was sold out at Branwen's corner shop.
    Now that would be harrowing!

    I understand Tesco on the Marina have plenty of their own brand Champagne in stock.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    BigRich said:

    egg said:

    Picture an Island in the river. On it hundreds of thousands of our most vulnerable. Above them a creaking damn that if it goes will obliterate the island. And a government doing diddly zilch about the situation.

    That’s the care home crisis of this lazy governments own making.

    And what do you want the government to do exactly?
    I think he wants the government to put hundreds of thousands on a small island in the Thames.

    I mean, it seems a bit cruel to me, but presumably @egg has his reasons.
    Monkey Island?

    https://www.monkeyislandestate.co.uk/

    I used to play British Bulldog on the lawn when I were a kid 😝
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,767

    Foxy said:

    'My name is Toby Young and I approve this message'

    https://twitter.com/milne25/status/1245062553618743296?s=20

    If this is genuine, where are they getting that list of conditions they refer to?

    It is NOT the list of severely or shielded vulnerable who have had a letter from NHS.
    I am surprised it is the Surgery's responsibility to let patients know that detail. If a patient rocked up to A and E at The Princess of Wales Hospital in Bridgend, surely it would be their job to pass on the bad news.
    No the Respect form has been rolled out this year, so these decisions are made in primary care. At least that is what is happening, but it sounds as if Wales is similar.

    https://www.resus.org.uk/respect/
    It's rather stark!

    Am I the only one getting the impression thegovernment's hitherto slick messaging is beginning to unravel this evening?

    Is this because one or both of Cummings and Johnson are temporarily out of the picture?
    I know Bevan said he wanted to hear every bedpan drop in Tredegar hospital, but controlling what an individual GP does is a stretch.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    Foxy said:

    'My name is Toby Young and I approve this message'

    https://twitter.com/milne25/status/1245062553618743296?s=20

    If this is genuine, where are they getting that list of conditions they refer to?

    It is NOT the list of severely or shielded vulnerable who have had a letter from NHS.
    I am surprised it is the Surgery's responsibility to let patients know that detail. If a patient rocked up to A and E at The Princess of Wales Hospital in Bridgend, surely it would be their job to pass on the bad news.
    No the Respect form has been rolled out this year, so these decisions are made in primary care. At least that is what is happening, but it sounds as if Wales is similar.

    https://www.resus.org.uk/respect/
    It's rather stark!

    Am I the only one getting the impression thegovernment's hitherto slick messaging is beginning to unravel this evening?

    Is this because one or both of Cummings and Johnson are temporarily out of the picture?
    Because one GP practice in Wales sent one letter?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,291
    edited March 2020
    Well the letter highlights terminal cancer patients as being asked to basically stay at home and die if they get it but in happier news terminal cancer patient George Alagiah has had COVID-19 and seems to have been fine with it.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-52111754/bbc-s-george-alagiah-on-living-with-coronavirus-and-cancer

    This disease really is a lottery isn't it?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Apparently the 13 year old that died only recently lost his father to cancer.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    rcs1000 said:

    BigRich said:

    egg said:

    Picture an Island in the river. On it hundreds of thousands of our most vulnerable. Above them a creaking damn that if it goes will obliterate the island. And a government doing diddly zilch about the situation.

    That’s the care home crisis of this lazy governments own making.

    And what do you want the government to do exactly?
    I think he wants the government to put hundreds of thousands on a small island in the Thames.

    I mean, it seems a bit cruel to me, but presumably @egg has his reasons.
    Egg has some Rum ideas...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    'My name is Toby Young and I approve this message'

    https://twitter.com/milne25/status/1245062553618743296?s=20

    If this is genuine, where are they getting that list of conditions they refer to?

    It is NOT the list of severely or shielded vulnerable who have had a letter from NHS.
    I am surprised it is the Surgery's responsibility to let patients know that detail. If a patient rocked up to A and E at The Princess of Wales Hospital in Bridgend, surely it would be their job to pass on the bad news.
    No the Respect form has been rolled out this year, so these decisions are made in primary care. At least that is what is happening, but it sounds as if Wales is similar.

    https://www.resus.org.uk/respect/
    It's rather stark!

    Am I the only one getting the impression thegovernment's hitherto slick messaging is beginning to unravel this evening?

    Is this because one or both of Cummings and Johnson are temporarily out of the picture?
    Because one GP practice in Wales sent one letter?
    I know Big Dom likes to stick his oar in, but I don't think even he has anything to do with little local GP surgeries in Wales.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,385
    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    'My name is Toby Young and I approve this message'

    https://twitter.com/milne25/status/1245062553618743296?s=20

    If this is genuine, where are they getting that list of conditions they refer to?

    It is NOT the list of severely or shielded vulnerable who have had a letter from NHS.
    I am surprised it is the Surgery's responsibility to let patients know that detail. If a patient rocked up to A and E at The Princess of Wales Hospital in Bridgend, surely it would be their job to pass on the bad news.
    No the Respect form has been rolled out this year, so these decisions are made in primary care. At least that is what is happening, but it sounds as if Wales is similar.

    https://www.resus.org.uk/respect/
    It's rather stark!

    Am I the only one getting the impression thegovernment's hitherto slick messaging is beginning to unravel this evening?

    Is this because one or both of Cummings and Johnson are temporarily out of the picture?
    Because one GP practice in Wales sent one letter?
    No, because the BBC are off-message on the testing for one thing.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Jonathan said:

    'My name is Toby Young and I approve this message'

    https://twitter.com/milne25/status/1245062553618743296?s=20

    Somebody please tell me that letter is a fake.
    Wales Online confirm it.
    Whilst utterly horrible, surely no one here is surprised that letters like this exist. This is what battlefield triage medicine looks like. This is the abyss we’re in. They don’t a country under house arrest for shits and giggles. Stay at home.
    Cwm Taf Health Board have made a very guarded apology for upsetting anyone. Whatever the reality it would be better left unsaid.
    It is not the best way to have this discussion, but avoiding the subject is not doing anyone a favour.

    There is a world of difference between a DNR order, and ending treatment. The whole process is to get the patients views on the limits of treatment, and when to call it a day.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,767

    eadric said:

    A harrowing day. And many more to come

    Busy on Penarth Pier then?
    Pol Roger was sold out at Branwen's corner shop.
    Now that would be harrowing!

    I understand Tesco on the Marina have plenty of their own brand Champagne in stock.
    Tidy.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,385
    edited March 2020

    Foxy said:

    'My name is Toby Young and I approve this message'

    https://twitter.com/milne25/status/1245062553618743296?s=20

    If this is genuine, where are they getting that list of conditions they refer to?

    It is NOT the list of severely or shielded vulnerable who have had a letter from NHS.
    I am surprised it is the Surgery's responsibility to let patients know that detail. If a patient rocked up to A and E at The Princess of Wales Hospital in Bridgend, surely it would be their job to pass on the bad news.
    No the Respect form has been rolled out this year, so these decisions are made in primary care. At least that is what is happening, but it sounds as if Wales is similar.

    https://www.resus.org.uk/respect/
    It's rather stark!

    Am I the only one getting the impression thegovernment's hitherto slick messaging is beginning to unravel this evening?

    Is this because one or both of Cummings and Johnson are temporarily out of the picture?
    I know Bevan said he wanted to hear every bedpan drop in Tredegar hospital, but controlling what an individual GP does is a stretch.

    That wasn't my point at all, and as Big G constantly reminds us any failures in the NHS in Wales have nothing to do with Westminster.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    edited March 2020

    Foxy said:

    'My name is Toby Young and I approve this message'

    https://twitter.com/milne25/status/1245062553618743296?s=20

    If this is genuine, where are they getting that list of conditions they refer to?

    It is NOT the list of severely or shielded vulnerable who have had a letter from NHS.
    It is from a GP practice. They would have that information on their database.

    While it is a difficult letter, it is nessecary to discuss whether a DNR is appropriate and should be in the notes. We have had this conversation with my own dear Mother in Law. If she comes down with it, she will stay in her nursing home. She is a former nurse, and while a little muddled, understood the implications of this when we discussed it.
    No idea if the letter is genuine, but I saw this interview with a senior consultant, and he was advocating for having this kind of discussion.

    It isn't even necessarily about rationing. For those who aren't medical, many think that going on a ventilator is just one of those things anybody can do. He makes it very clear, it is really a traumatic experience for a person's body and many people's bodies can't take it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztrbL3IRTdo
    It’s a fair point (and FWiW I’ve seen some suggestions from NY that for some set of patients outcomes are superior not intubating and just giving oxygen.)
    But the letter was incredibly insensitive in the way it was written.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,385

    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    'My name is Toby Young and I approve this message'

    https://twitter.com/milne25/status/1245062553618743296?s=20

    If this is genuine, where are they getting that list of conditions they refer to?

    It is NOT the list of severely or shielded vulnerable who have had a letter from NHS.
    I am surprised it is the Surgery's responsibility to let patients know that detail. If a patient rocked up to A and E at The Princess of Wales Hospital in Bridgend, surely it would be their job to pass on the bad news.
    No the Respect form has been rolled out this year, so these decisions are made in primary care. At least that is what is happening, but it sounds as if Wales is similar.

    https://www.resus.org.uk/respect/
    It's rather stark!

    Am I the only one getting the impression thegovernment's hitherto slick messaging is beginning to unravel this evening?

    Is this because one or both of Cummings and Johnson are temporarily out of the picture?
    Because one GP practice in Wales sent one letter?
    I know Big Dom likes to stick his oar in, but I don't think even he has anything to do with little local GP surgeries in Wales.
    Nothing to do with Dom. Vaughan Gethin is your guilty party here.

    You Tories are all very touchy when anyone questions the government's handling of the Coronavirus. I was just saying the message is less confident than it has been, and the focus is testing.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,000
    edited March 2020
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    BigRich said:

    egg said:

    Picture an Island in the river. On it hundreds of thousands of our most vulnerable. Above them a creaking damn that if it goes will obliterate the island. And a government doing diddly zilch about the situation.

    That’s the care home crisis of this lazy governments own making.

    And what do you want the government to do exactly?
    I think he wants the government to put hundreds of thousands on a small island in the Thames.

    I mean, it seems a bit cruel to me, but presumably @egg has his reasons.
    Egg has some Rum ideas...
    Don't Muck them.. ye Canna do that.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    'My name is Toby Young and I approve this message'

    https://twitter.com/milne25/status/1245062553618743296?s=20

    If this is genuine, where are they getting that list of conditions they refer to?

    It is NOT the list of severely or shielded vulnerable who have had a letter from NHS.
    It is from a GP practice. They would have that information on their database.

    While it is a difficult letter, it is nessecary to discuss whether a DNR is appropriate and should be in the notes. We have had this conversation with my own dear Mother in Law. If she comes down with it, she will stay in her nursing home. She is a former nurse, and while a little muddled, understood the implications of this when we discussed it.
    No idea if the letter is genuine, but I saw this interview with a senior consultant, and he was advocating for having this kind of discussion.

    It isn't even necessarily about rationing. For those who aren't medical, many think that going on a ventilator is just one of those things anybody can do. He makes it very clear, it is really a traumatic experience for a person's body and many people's bodies can't take it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztrbL3IRTdo
    It’s a fair point (and FWiW I’ve seen some suggestions from NY that for some set of patients outcomes are superior not intubating and just giving oxygen.)
    But the letter was incredibly insensitive in the way it was written.
    Insensitive...must have got the receptionist to do it, they always seem to have a real lack of subtly.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    GIN1138 said:

    Well the letter highlights terminal cancer patients as being asked to basically stay at home and die if they get it but in happier news terminal cancer patient George Alagiah has had COVID-19 and seems to have been fine with it.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-52111754/bbc-s-george-alagiah-on-living-with-coronavirus-and-cancer

    This disease really is a lottery isn't it?

    It is surely the strangest virus that ever existed. To have no impact at all on some people, a mild cold in others and to kill some people very quickly, all from the same virus.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    GIN1138 said:

    Well the letter highlights terminal cancer patients as being asked to basically stay at home and die if they get it but in happier news terminal cancer patient George Alagiah has had COVID-19 and seems to have been fine with it.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-52111754/bbc-s-george-alagiah-on-living-with-coronavirus-and-cancer

    This disease really is a lottery isn't it?

    Yes but I dont think he was ventilated or had a cardiac arrest. A DNR conversation is about the scope and limits of treatment. If a patient wants CPR then they can opt for that.

    ICU outreach teams make decisions every day about whether a patient is suitable for ventilation. This is not new, though it is now an issue under the spotlight.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020

    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    'My name is Toby Young and I approve this message'

    https://twitter.com/milne25/status/1245062553618743296?s=20

    If this is genuine, where are they getting that list of conditions they refer to?

    It is NOT the list of severely or shielded vulnerable who have had a letter from NHS.
    I am surprised it is the Surgery's responsibility to let patients know that detail. If a patient rocked up to A and E at The Princess of Wales Hospital in Bridgend, surely it would be their job to pass on the bad news.
    No the Respect form has been rolled out this year, so these decisions are made in primary care. At least that is what is happening, but it sounds as if Wales is similar.

    https://www.resus.org.uk/respect/
    It's rather stark!

    Am I the only one getting the impression thegovernment's hitherto slick messaging is beginning to unravel this evening?

    Is this because one or both of Cummings and Johnson are temporarily out of the picture?
    Because one GP practice in Wales sent one letter?
    I know Big Dom likes to stick his oar in, but I don't think even he has anything to do with little local GP surgeries in Wales.
    Nothing to do with Dom. Vaughan Gethin is your guilty party here.

    You Tories are all very touchy when anyone questions the government's handling of the Coronavirus. I was just saying the message is less confident than it has been, and the focus is testing.
    I was joking. And not a Tory.

    If you missed on the last thread, I was questioning what the government are doing with the testing. And regularly criticised how bad the comms has been.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited March 2020
    tyson said:

    Jonathan said:

    What’s going on with UK testing? Something doesn’t add up.


    Piss up and a brewery spring to mind....

    In 5 years time...no one is going to be interested in the aftermath.....but in 5 years when we are all past this horror shitshow.....this govt's initial approach is going to be vilified in a way that will be excruciating to see....the missteps are appalling.....but a number of other Govt's will look shocking as well
    I don't think so. The very most striking thing of this entire crisis is the extraordinary similarity of the graphs for every European country. That being the case, it requires an enormous leap of party-political spin to blame one particular government, such as the UK government, especially since if anything we seem to be on a marginally better slope of the logarithmic increase than most.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,385

    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    'My name is Toby Young and I approve this message'

    https://twitter.com/milne25/status/1245062553618743296?s=20

    If this is genuine, where are they getting that list of conditions they refer to?

    It is NOT the list of severely or shielded vulnerable who have had a letter from NHS.
    I am surprised it is the Surgery's responsibility to let patients know that detail. If a patient rocked up to A and E at The Princess of Wales Hospital in Bridgend, surely it would be their job to pass on the bad news.
    No the Respect form has been rolled out this year, so these decisions are made in primary care. At least that is what is happening, but it sounds as if Wales is similar.

    https://www.resus.org.uk/respect/
    It's rather stark!

    Am I the only one getting the impression thegovernment's hitherto slick messaging is beginning to unravel this evening?

    Is this because one or both of Cummings and Johnson are temporarily out of the picture?
    Because one GP practice in Wales sent one letter?
    I know Big Dom likes to stick his oar in, but I don't think even he has anything to do with little local GP surgeries in Wales.
    Nothing to do with Dom. Vaughan Gethin is your guilty party here.

    You Tories are all very touchy when anyone questions the government's handling of the Coronavirus. I was just saying the message is less confident than it has been, and the focus is testing.
    I was joking. And not a Tory.

    If you missed on the last thread, I was questioning what the government are doing with the testing.
    Sincere apologies for branding you a Tory.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119

    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    'My name is Toby Young and I approve this message'

    https://twitter.com/milne25/status/1245062553618743296?s=20

    If this is genuine, where are they getting that list of conditions they refer to?

    It is NOT the list of severely or shielded vulnerable who have had a letter from NHS.
    I am surprised it is the Surgery's responsibility to let patients know that detail. If a patient rocked up to A and E at The Princess of Wales Hospital in Bridgend, surely it would be their job to pass on the bad news.
    No the Respect form has been rolled out this year, so these decisions are made in primary care. At least that is what is happening, but it sounds as if Wales is similar.

    https://www.resus.org.uk/respect/
    It's rather stark!

    Am I the only one getting the impression thegovernment's hitherto slick messaging is beginning to unravel this evening?

    Is this because one or both of Cummings and Johnson are temporarily out of the picture?
    Because one GP practice in Wales sent one letter?
    I know Big Dom likes to stick his oar in, but I don't think even he has anything to do with little local GP surgeries in Wales.
    Nothing to do with Dom. Vaughan Gethin is your guilty party here.

    You Tories are all very touchy when anyone questions the government's handling of the Coronavirus. I was just saying the message is less confident than it has been, and the focus is testing.
    I was joking. And not a Tory.

    If you missed on the last thread, I was questioning what the government are doing with the testing.
    Sincere apologies for branding you a Tory.
    Well I did vote for them once, and yet to receive my promised baby to eat. Very disappointing.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,291
    Foxy said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Well the letter highlights terminal cancer patients as being asked to basically stay at home and die if they get it but in happier news terminal cancer patient George Alagiah has had COVID-19 and seems to have been fine with it.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-52111754/bbc-s-george-alagiah-on-living-with-coronavirus-and-cancer

    This disease really is a lottery isn't it?

    Yes but I dont think he was ventilated or had a cardiac arrest. A DNR conversation is about the scope and limits of treatment. If a patient wants CPR then they can opt for that.

    ICU outreach teams make decisions every day about whether a patient is suitable for ventilation. This is not new, though it is now an issue under the spotlight.
    Yes I know that. We went through the whole DNR thing with my late grandmother a couple of years ago.

    I was just pointing out the irony... And the way this weird virus can kill a healthy teenager in a few days but spare someone who's had terminal cancer for six years.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,385

    GIN1138 said:

    Well the letter highlights terminal cancer patients as being asked to basically stay at home and die if they get it but in happier news terminal cancer patient George Alagiah has had COVID-19 and seems to have been fine with it.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-52111754/bbc-s-george-alagiah-on-living-with-coronavirus-and-cancer

    This disease really is a lottery isn't it?

    It is surely the strangest virus that ever existed. To have no impact at all on some people, a mild cold in others and to kill some people very quickly, all from the same virus.
    The District Nurse writes...
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,000
    edited March 2020
    One of my best friends lives in Lower Manhattan, I'm sure this won't be making him shit himself in the slightest.

    https://twitter.com/RitaJKing/status/1244782872076128256?s=20
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,385
    edited March 2020

    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    'My name is Toby Young and I approve this message'

    https://twitter.com/milne25/status/1245062553618743296?s=20

    If this is genuine, where are they getting that list of conditions they refer to?

    It is NOT the list of severely or shielded vulnerable who have had a letter from NHS.
    I am surprised it is the Surgery's responsibility to let patients know that detail. If a patient rocked up to A and E at The Princess of Wales Hospital in Bridgend, surely it would be their job to pass on the bad news.
    No the Respect form has been rolled out this year, so these decisions are made in primary care. At least that is what is happening, but it sounds as if Wales is similar.

    https://www.resus.org.uk/respect/
    It's rather stark!

    Am I the only one getting the impression thegovernment's hitherto slick messaging is beginning to unravel this evening?

    Is this because one or both of Cummings and Johnson are temporarily out of the picture?
    Because one GP practice in Wales sent one letter?
    I know Big Dom likes to stick his oar in, but I don't think even he has anything to do with little local GP surgeries in Wales.
    Nothing to do with Dom. Vaughan Gethin is your guilty party here.

    You Tories are all very touchy when anyone questions the government's handling of the Coronavirus. I was just saying the message is less confident than it has been, and the focus is testing.
    I was joking. And not a Tory.

    If you missed on the last thread, I was questioning what the government are doing with the testing.
    Sincere apologies for branding you a Tory.
    Well I did vote for them once, and yet to receive my promised baby to eat. Very disappointing.
    Boris says he is a man of his word I am sure it is on its way.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    rcs1000 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Today's US figures look pretty horrible. I just don't see how the Government is ever going to implement the kind of lockdown measures that have worked elsewhere.

    Right this minute, I wouldn't like to put an upper limit on the number of US deaths due the virus or how long the crisis will last there. Is it too extreme to imagine a world that puts the US in quarantine?

    California seems to be an exception where case numbers arent rising so fast
    Wasn't it quicker off the mark than most in implementing lockdown measures?
    Yes.

    But that's not all.

    Here in SoCal we all live in our cars as there's no public transport.
    Not entirely true, I went to LA for a fortnight, did not hire a car but walked, used buses and the subway.
    It was not as easy as London or NYC with public transport but possible still
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    'My name is Toby Young and I approve this message'

    https://twitter.com/milne25/status/1245062553618743296?s=20

    If this is genuine, where are they getting that list of conditions they refer to?

    It is NOT the list of severely or shielded vulnerable who have had a letter from NHS.
    It is from a GP practice. They would have that information on their database.

    While it is a difficult letter, it is nessecary to discuss whether a DNR is appropriate and should be in the notes. We have had this conversation with my own dear Mother in Law. If she comes down with it, she will stay in her nursing home. She is a former nurse, and while a little muddled, understood the implications of this when we discussed it.
    I can see the DNR bit, but my question is what are they using as the list? The official severely at risk does not include conditions mentioned as examples in this letter.
    The sort of patients to have this discussion with is part of the Respect training. It is part of Mandatory training in most Trusts.
    The letter doesn’t scream respect...
    ReSPECT is the name of the form.
    Recommended Summary Plan for Emergency Care and Treatment
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119

    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    'My name is Toby Young and I approve this message'

    https://twitter.com/milne25/status/1245062553618743296?s=20

    If this is genuine, where are they getting that list of conditions they refer to?

    It is NOT the list of severely or shielded vulnerable who have had a letter from NHS.
    I am surprised it is the Surgery's responsibility to let patients know that detail. If a patient rocked up to A and E at The Princess of Wales Hospital in Bridgend, surely it would be their job to pass on the bad news.
    No the Respect form has been rolled out this year, so these decisions are made in primary care. At least that is what is happening, but it sounds as if Wales is similar.

    https://www.resus.org.uk/respect/
    It's rather stark!

    Am I the only one getting the impression thegovernment's hitherto slick messaging is beginning to unravel this evening?

    Is this because one or both of Cummings and Johnson are temporarily out of the picture?
    Because one GP practice in Wales sent one letter?
    I know Big Dom likes to stick his oar in, but I don't think even he has anything to do with little local GP surgeries in Wales.
    Nothing to do with Dom. Vaughan Gethin is your guilty party here.

    You Tories are all very touchy when anyone questions the government's handling of the Coronavirus. I was just saying the message is less confident than it has been, and the focus is testing.
    I was joking. And not a Tory.

    If you missed on the last thread, I was questioning what the government are doing with the testing.
    Sincere apologies for branding you a Tory.
    Well I did vote for them once, and yet to receive my promised baby to eat. Very disappointing.
    Boris is a man of his word I am sure it is on its way.
    Oh no, I didn't vote for him...been waiting much longer than that.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    One of my best friends lives in Lower Manhattan, I'm sure this won't be making him shit himself in the slightest.

    https://twitter.com/RitaJKing/status/1244782872076128256?s=20

    Should of got that STD test
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821

    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    'My name is Toby Young and I approve this message'

    https://twitter.com/milne25/status/1245062553618743296?s=20

    If this is genuine, where are they getting that list of conditions they refer to?

    It is NOT the list of severely or shielded vulnerable who have had a letter from NHS.
    I am surprised it is the Surgery's responsibility to let patients know that detail. If a patient rocked up to A and E at The Princess of Wales Hospital in Bridgend, surely it would be their job to pass on the bad news.
    No the Respect form has been rolled out this year, so these decisions are made in primary care. At least that is what is happening, but it sounds as if Wales is similar.

    https://www.resus.org.uk/respect/
    It's rather stark!

    Am I the only one getting the impression thegovernment's hitherto slick messaging is beginning to unravel this evening?

    Is this because one or both of Cummings and Johnson are temporarily out of the picture?
    Because one GP practice in Wales sent one letter?
    I know Big Dom likes to stick his oar in, but I don't think even he has anything to do with little local GP surgeries in Wales.
    Nothing to do with Dom. Vaughan Gethin is your guilty party here.

    You Tories are all very touchy when anyone questions the government's handling of the Coronavirus. I was just saying the message is less confident than it has been, and the focus is testing.
    I was joking. And not a Tory.

    If you missed on the last thread, I was questioning what the government are doing with the testing.
    Sincere apologies for branding you a Tory.
    Well I did vote for them once, and yet to receive my promised baby to eat. Very disappointing.
    Tut, you can't just sit around and expect to be given your baby to eat. You should have used your initiative and got on your bike to find your own,
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Trump Press conference is on. Gaslighting at maximum levels.

    https://twitter.com/RonaldKlain/status/1245114091338969088?s=19
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited March 2020

    Today's US figures look pretty horrible. I just don't see how the Government is ever going to implement the kind of lockdown measures that have worked elsewhere.

    Right this minute, I wouldn't like to put an upper limit on the number of US deaths due the virus or how long the crisis will last there. Is it too extreme to imagine a world that puts the US in quarantine?

    32 out of 50 US states are now in lockdown, Canada, the Netherlands and Sweden are still not in lockdown at all.
    South Korea prioritised mass testing and has also avoided lockdown
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    HYUFD said:

    Today's US figures look pretty horrible. I just don't see how the Government is ever going to implement the kind of lockdown measures that have worked elsewhere.

    Right this minute, I wouldn't like to put an upper limit on the number of US deaths due the virus or how long the crisis will last there. Is it too extreme to imagine a world that puts the US in quarantine?

    32 out of 50 US states are bow in lockdown, Canada, the Netherlands and Sweden are still not in lockdown at all
    Is that right that even the big cities like Toronto aren't in lockdown? I can understand why it wouldn't be the case for about 90% of the landmass of Canada as there are more bears than people, but Toronto basically borders with NY state and this has clearly been circulating in NY for many weeks (before they closed the border).
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,385

    One of my best friends lives in Lower Manhattan, I'm sure this won't be making him shit himself in the slightest.

    https://twitter.com/RitaJKing/status/1244782872076128256?s=20

    ...or they could be calling for Batman.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153

    Number 2. Like everyone's next haircut.

    I've been cutting my own hair by just going all over with the clippers on the lowest setting for 18 years, I was made for this moment.
  • ABZABZ Posts: 441
    eadric said:

    HYUFD said:

    Today's US figures look pretty horrible. I just don't see how the Government is ever going to implement the kind of lockdown measures that have worked elsewhere.

    Right this minute, I wouldn't like to put an upper limit on the number of US deaths due the virus or how long the crisis will last there. Is it too extreme to imagine a world that puts the US in quarantine?

    32 out of 50 US states are now in lockdown, Canada, the Netherlands and Sweden are still not in lockdown at all.
    South Korea prioritised mass testing and has also avoided lockdown
    The Netherlands and Sweden now have pretty horrifying death tolls, worse than there neighbours
    Not sure that's true... the deaths per million people are, at present, very similar in Netherlands, France and Belgium. And Sweden is very similar, on the same measure, to Denmark.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    GIN1138 said:

    Foxy said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Well the letter highlights terminal cancer patients as being asked to basically stay at home and die if they get it but in happier news terminal cancer patient George Alagiah has had COVID-19 and seems to have been fine with it.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-52111754/bbc-s-george-alagiah-on-living-with-coronavirus-and-cancer

    This disease really is a lottery isn't it?

    Yes but I dont think he was ventilated or had a cardiac arrest. A DNR conversation is about the scope and limits of treatment. If a patient wants CPR then they can opt for that.

    ICU outreach teams make decisions every day about whether a patient is suitable for ventilation. This is not new, though it is now an issue under the spotlight.
    Yes I know that. We went through the whole DNR thing with my late grandmother a couple of years ago.

    I was just pointing out the irony... And the way this weird virus can kill a healthy teenager in a few days but spare someone who's had terminal cancer for six years.
    It is weird. Clearly there is a massive difference in host response to the virus. Affected by age, sex, BMI, and a host of other factors. Indeed an over exuberant cytokine response by the immune system is probably part of the pathology.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,385
    eadric said:

    HYUFD said:

    Today's US figures look pretty horrible. I just don't see how the Government is ever going to implement the kind of lockdown measures that have worked elsewhere.

    Right this minute, I wouldn't like to put an upper limit on the number of US deaths due the virus or how long the crisis will last there. Is it too extreme to imagine a world that puts the US in quarantine?

    32 out of 50 US states are now in lockdown, Canada, the Netherlands and Sweden are still not in lockdown at all.
    South Korea prioritised mass testing and has also avoided lockdown
    The Netherlands and Sweden now have pretty horrifying death tolls, worse than there neighbours
    It has been confirmed. You are not who they claim you are! He would never have mistaken 'there' for 'their'!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148

    HYUFD said:

    Today's US figures look pretty horrible. I just don't see how the Government is ever going to implement the kind of lockdown measures that have worked elsewhere.

    Right this minute, I wouldn't like to put an upper limit on the number of US deaths due the virus or how long the crisis will last there. Is it too extreme to imagine a world that puts the US in quarantine?

    32 out of 50 US states are bow in lockdown, Canada, the Netherlands and Sweden are still not in lockdown at all
    Is that right that even the big cities like Toronto aren't in lockdown? I can understand why it wouldn't be the case for about 90% of the landmass of Canada as there are more bears than people, but Toronto basically borders with NY state and this has clearly been circulating in NY for many weeks (before they closed the border).
    Toronto has shut schools and cancelled big events but that is it
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    eadric said:

    Alistair said:


    Trump Press conference is on. Gaslighting at maximum levels.

    https://twitter.com/RonaldKlain/status/1245114091338969088?s=19

    Omfffffffg
    From reading bits and bobs it seems like the two cheof medical advisers have basically spent the last week feeding Trump's ego so that he will listen to them. They have publically said the most ridiculous shit about how brilliant Trump is so that they can actually get him to do the right thing.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Foxy said:


    It is weird. Clearly there is a massive difference in host response to the virus. Affected by age, sex, BMI, and a host of other factors. Indeed an over exuberant cytokine response by the immune system is probably part of the pathology.

    Are there any other infectious diseases which have such a weird age profile, in particular not affecting children much?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153

    ABZ said:

    eadric said:

    A harrowing day. And many more to come

    If it helps (perhaps not, in which case ignore this!), most of western Europe should be on the downswing in two weeks (just after Easter). It is not good but it will not last for ever and, compared to some of the projections, it is going to be distressing but not anywhere near hundreds of thousands of deaths per country.

    The trick is to be better prepared (ventilators / anti-virals / testing) for the next wave. For the first, we are going to be in good shape; for the second, there will be various clinical trials reporting in April that will give us a good hint about what might work; and for the third, we will have antigen / antibody tests that are much more rapid. Even if the anti-virals (or other therapies) have only a small effect, we will thus be much better prepared.

    Consequently, whilst the situations seems awful, the next wave really should not be anything like as bad. I know that this may sound like small beer at present, but it is important we realise that the world will keep spinning and that there is still a lot to play for.
    And whilst it's distressing, going to be more distressing, and the worst thing that happens in most of our lifetimes...

    … despite all that, the human response to this threat has been blooming amazing. Not perfect, but way more effective than against similar threats in the past.

    Randall Munroe got it right; "We're not trapped in here with the coronavirus. The coronavirus is trapped in here with us."

    https://xkcd.com/2287/
    He's always good for being interesting. For those who don't know, his 'serious scientific answers to ridiculous questions' book, what if, included hypothesising how effective it would be to try to beat the common cold by the entire planet self isolating.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    edited March 2020
    ABZ said:

    eadric said:

    HYUFD said:

    Today's US figures look pretty horrible. I just don't see how the Government is ever going to implement the kind of lockdown measures that have worked elsewhere.

    Right this minute, I wouldn't like to put an upper limit on the number of US deaths due the virus or how long the crisis will last there. Is it too extreme to imagine a world that puts the US in quarantine?

    32 out of 50 US states are now in lockdown, Canada, the Netherlands and Sweden are still not in lockdown at all.
    South Korea prioritised mass testing and has also avoided lockdown
    The Netherlands and Sweden now have pretty horrifying death tolls, worse than there neighbours
    Not sure that's true... the deaths per million people are, at present, very similar in Netherlands, France and Belgium. And Sweden is very similar, on the same measure, to Denmark.
    Yes, the per capita figures are here:

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited March 2020
    Foxy said:

    ABZ said:

    eadric said:

    HYUFD said:

    Today's US figures look pretty horrible. I just don't see how the Government is ever going to implement the kind of lockdown measures that have worked elsewhere.

    Right this minute, I wouldn't like to put an upper limit on the number of US deaths due the virus or how long the crisis will last there. Is it too extreme to imagine a world that puts the US in quarantine?

    32 out of 50 US states are now in lockdown, Canada, the Netherlands and Sweden are still not in lockdown at all.
    South Korea prioritised mass testing and has also avoided lockdown
    The Netherlands and Sweden now have pretty horrifying death tolls, worse than there neighbours
    Not sure that's true... the deaths per million people are, at present, very similar in Netherlands, France and Belgium. And Sweden is very similar, on the same measure, to Denmark.
    Yes, the per capita figures are here:

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/
    The Netherlands has the 3rd highest deaths per capita on that chart behind Italy and Spain.
    The US is not in the top 10 yet, the UK is 10th and all are European nations bar Iran (though China in reality should also probably be there)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    Alistair said:

    eadric said:

    Alistair said:


    Trump Press conference is on. Gaslighting at maximum levels.

    https://twitter.com/RonaldKlain/status/1245114091338969088?s=19

    Omfffffffg
    From reading bits and bobs it seems like the two cheof medical advisers have basically spent the last week feeding Trump's ego so that he will listen to them. They have publically said the most ridiculous shit about how brilliant Trump is so that they can actually get him to do the right thing.
    "It would take someone truly amazing to solve this. Someone beautiful and intelligent, and with a great golf game. And that person would then do exactly the following things to save the entire world...oh hello Mr President, we were just talking about you. What's that? Well I know you this, but if you insist, what that person should do is..."
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,385
    edited March 2020
    Alistair said:


    Trump Press conference is on. Gaslighting at maximum levels.

    https://twitter.com/RonaldKlain/status/1245114091338969088?s=19

    Does that mean if deaths only peaks at 99.000 the target has been missed?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Foxy said:


    It is weird. Clearly there is a massive difference in host response to the virus. Affected by age, sex, BMI, and a host of other factors. Indeed an over exuberant cytokine response by the immune system is probably part of the pathology.

    Are there any other infectious diseases which have such a weird age profile, in particular not affecting children much?
    Quite a few. Mumps is mostly minor in children and severe in adults, as is chicken pox. There are occasionally very severe cases in children too of course, but much more frequent in adults.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:


    It is weird. Clearly there is a massive difference in host response to the virus. Affected by age, sex, BMI, and a host of other factors. Indeed an over exuberant cytokine response by the immune system is probably part of the pathology.

    Are there any other infectious diseases which have such a weird age profile, in particular not affecting children much?
    Quite a few. Mumps is mostly minor in children and severe in adults, as is chicken pox. There are occasionally very severe cases in children too of course, but much more frequent in adults.
    Ah, right, yes of course.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,385
    edited March 2020
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    ABZ said:

    eadric said:

    HYUFD said:

    Today's US figures look pretty horrible. I just don't see how the Government is ever going to implement the kind of lockdown measures that have worked elsewhere.

    Right this minute, I wouldn't like to put an upper limit on the number of US deaths due the virus or how long the crisis will last there. Is it too extreme to imagine a world that puts the US in quarantine?

    32 out of 50 US states are now in lockdown, Canada, the Netherlands and Sweden are still not in lockdown at all.
    South Korea prioritised mass testing and has also avoided lockdown
    The Netherlands and Sweden now have pretty horrifying death tolls, worse than there neighbours
    Not sure that's true... the deaths per million people are, at present, very similar in Netherlands, France and Belgium. And Sweden is very similar, on the same measure, to Denmark.
    Yes, the per capita figures are here:

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/
    The Netherlands has the 3rd highest deaths per capita on that chart behind Italy and Spain
    I have told you before stop tabulating the fatality stats as a league table!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153

    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    'My name is Toby Young and I approve this message'

    https://twitter.com/milne25/status/1245062553618743296?s=20

    If this is genuine, where are they getting that list of conditions they refer to?

    It is NOT the list of severely or shielded vulnerable who have had a letter from NHS.
    I am surprised it is the Surgery's responsibility to let patients know that detail. If a patient rocked up to A and E at The Princess of Wales Hospital in Bridgend, surely it would be their job to pass on the bad news.
    No the Respect form has been rolled out this year, so these decisions are made in primary care. At least that is what is happening, but it sounds as if Wales is similar.

    https://www.resus.org.uk/respect/
    It's rather stark!

    Am I the only one getting the impression thegovernment's hitherto slick messaging is beginning to unravel this evening?

    Is this because one or both of Cummings and Johnson are temporarily out of the picture?
    Because one GP practice in Wales sent one letter?
    I know Big Dom likes to stick his oar in, but I don't think even he has anything to do with little local GP surgeries in Wales.
    Nothing to do with Dom. Vaughan Gethin is your guilty party here.

    You Tories are all very touchy when anyone questions the government's handling of the Coronavirus. I was just saying the message is less confident than it has been, and the focus is testing.
    I was joking. And not a Tory.

    If you missed on the last thread, I was questioning what the government are doing with the testing.
    Sincere apologies for branding you a Tory.
    Well I did vote for them once, and yet to receive my promised baby to eat. Very disappointing.
    I did get mine, but it was a bit of a disappointment to be honest. Not that the bundle of kale and soya I got for voting LD was that great either to be honest. What do Labour offer as a culinary reward?
  • ABZABZ Posts: 441
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    ABZ said:

    eadric said:

    HYUFD said:

    Today's US figures look pretty horrible. I just don't see how the Government is ever going to implement the kind of lockdown measures that have worked elsewhere.

    Right this minute, I wouldn't like to put an upper limit on the number of US deaths due the virus or how long the crisis will last there. Is it too extreme to imagine a world that puts the US in quarantine?

    32 out of 50 US states are now in lockdown, Canada, the Netherlands and Sweden are still not in lockdown at all.
    South Korea prioritised mass testing and has also avoided lockdown
    The Netherlands and Sweden now have pretty horrifying death tolls, worse than there neighbours
    Not sure that's true... the deaths per million people are, at present, very similar in Netherlands, France and Belgium. And Sweden is very similar, on the same measure, to Denmark.
    Yes, the per capita figures are here:

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/
    The Netherlands has the 3rd highest deaths per capita on that chart behind Italy and Spain
    Slightly more recent figures are here (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/), but the point is that there is not much difference between the Netherlands, Belgium and France. So we can't yet say they are doing worse than their neighbours... It might turn out to be the case but the jury is still out at present.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    ABZ said:

    eadric said:

    HYUFD said:

    Today's US figures look pretty horrible. I just don't see how the Government is ever going to implement the kind of lockdown measures that have worked elsewhere.

    Right this minute, I wouldn't like to put an upper limit on the number of US deaths due the virus or how long the crisis will last there. Is it too extreme to imagine a world that puts the US in quarantine?

    32 out of 50 US states are now in lockdown, Canada, the Netherlands and Sweden are still not in lockdown at all.
    South Korea prioritised mass testing and has also avoided lockdown
    The Netherlands and Sweden now have pretty horrifying death tolls, worse than there neighbours
    Not sure that's true... the deaths per million people are, at present, very similar in Netherlands, France and Belgium. And Sweden is very similar, on the same measure, to Denmark.
    Yes, the per capita figures are here:

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/
    The Netherlands has the 3rd highest deaths per capita on that chart behind Italy and Spain
    I have told you before stop tabulating the stats as a league table!
    Stats are stats and that was why the table was posted
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,709
    edited March 2020
    The death rates are slowly creeping up in the US and Germany. Now over 2% in the US and almost 1% in Germany.

    https://bnonews.com/index.php/2020/03/the-latest-coronavirus-cases/
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    'My name is Toby Young and I approve this message'

    https://twitter.com/milne25/status/1245062553618743296?s=20

    If this is genuine, where are they getting that list of conditions they refer to?

    It is NOT the list of severely or shielded vulnerable who have had a letter from NHS.
    I am surprised it is the Surgery's responsibility to let patients know that detail. If a patient rocked up to A and E at The Princess of Wales Hospital in Bridgend, surely it would be their job to pass on the bad news.
    No the Respect form has been rolled out this year, so these decisions are made in primary care. At least that is what is happening, but it sounds as if Wales is similar.

    https://www.resus.org.uk/respect/
    It's rather stark!

    Am I the only one getting the impression thegovernment's hitherto slick messaging is beginning to unravel this evening?

    Is this because one or both of Cummings and Johnson are temporarily out of the picture?
    Because one GP practice in Wales sent one letter?
    I know Big Dom likes to stick his oar in, but I don't think even he has anything to do with little local GP surgeries in Wales.
    Nothing to do with Dom. Vaughan Gethin is your guilty party here.

    You Tories are all very touchy when anyone questions the government's handling of the Coronavirus. I was just saying the message is less confident than it has been, and the focus is testing.
    I was joking. And not a Tory.

    If you missed on the last thread, I was questioning what the government are doing with the testing.
    Sincere apologies for branding you a Tory.
    Well I did vote for them once, and yet to receive my promised baby to eat. Very disappointing.
    I did get mine, but it was a bit of a disappointment to be honest. Not that the bundle of kale and soya I got for voting LD was that great either to be honest. What do Labour offer as a culinary reward?
    Free Owls. Obviously.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    'My name is Toby Young and I approve this message'

    https://twitter.com/milne25/status/1245062553618743296?s=20

    If this is genuine, where are they getting that list of conditions they refer to?

    It is NOT the list of severely or shielded vulnerable who have had a letter from NHS.
    I am surprised it is the Surgery's responsibility to let patients know that detail. If a patient rocked up to A and E at The Princess of Wales Hospital in Bridgend, surely it would be their job to pass on the bad news.
    No the Respect form has been rolled out this year, so these decisions are made in primary care. At least that is what is happening, but it sounds as if Wales is similar.

    https://www.resus.org.uk/respect/
    It's rather stark!

    Am I the only one getting the impression thegovernment's hitherto slick messaging is beginning to unravel this evening?

    Is this because one or both of Cummings and Johnson are temporarily out of the picture?
    Because one GP practice in Wales sent one letter?
    I know Big Dom likes to stick his oar in, but I don't think even he has anything to do with little local GP surgeries in Wales.
    Nothing to do with Dom. Vaughan Gethin is your guilty party here.

    You Tories are all very touchy when anyone questions the government's handling of the Coronavirus. I was just saying the message is less confident than it has been, and the focus is testing.
    I was joking. And not a Tory.

    If you missed on the last thread, I was questioning what the government are doing with the testing.
    Sincere apologies for branding you a Tory.
    Well I did vote for them once, and yet to receive my promised baby to eat. Very disappointing.
    I did get mine, but it was a bit of a disappointment to be honest. Not that the bundle of kale and soya I got for voting LD was that great either to be honest. What do Labour offer as a culinary reward?
    Free Owls. Obviously.
    I feel like it would be against the spirit to eat it though, whereas I know that's what I'm supposed to do withmy free baby. A man needs to think of his stomach, else he'll resort to barbarism!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    edited March 2020
    eadric said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    ABZ said:

    eadric said:

    HYUFD said:

    Today's US figures look pretty horrible. I just don't see how the Government is ever going to implement the kind of lockdown measures that have worked elsewhere.

    Right this minute, I wouldn't like to put an upper limit on the number of US deaths due the virus or how long the crisis will last there. Is it too extreme to imagine a world that puts the US in quarantine?

    32 out of 50 US states are now in lockdown, Canada, the Netherlands and Sweden are still not in lockdown at all.
    South Korea prioritised mass testing and has also avoided lockdown
    The Netherlands and Sweden now have pretty horrifying death tolls, worse than there neighbours
    Not sure that's true... the deaths per million people are, at present, very similar in Netherlands, France and Belgium. And Sweden is very similar, on the same measure, to Denmark.
    Yes, the per capita figures are here:

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/
    The Netherlands has the 3rd highest deaths per capita on that chart behind Italy and Spain.
    The US is not in the top 10 yet, the UK is 10th and all are European nations bar Iran (though China in reality should also probably be there)
    Quite

    My hunch is that, in the end, Western European nations will be a wash. No one will do that much better, or worse, and all of them will end in some kind of lockdown, because the death tolls are too traumatic, otherwise.

    I think it will be pretty similar economically, but probably the biggest factor in mortality will be geography. Big cities will get it worst, and rural areas get off lightly, though far from unscathed.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    DavidL said:

    I get to go out to give blood tomorrow. Could be the highlight of my week.

    I did the same last Wednesday. They were only allowing about 10 donors into the room at any one time compared to about 30 usually.
  • ukpaulukpaul Posts: 649
    edited March 2020
    ABZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    ABZ said:

    eadric said:

    HYUFD said:

    Today's US figures look pretty horrible. I just don't see how the Government is ever going to implement the kind of lockdown measures that have worked elsewhere.

    Right this minute, I wouldn't like to put an upper limit on the number of US deaths due the virus or how long the crisis will last there. Is it too extreme to imagine a world that puts the US in quarantine?

    32 out of 50 US states are now in lockdown, Canada, the Netherlands and Sweden are still not in lockdown at all.
    South Korea prioritised mass testing and has also avoided lockdown
    The Netherlands and Sweden now have pretty horrifying death tolls, worse than there neighbours
    Not sure that's true... the deaths per million people are, at present, very similar in Netherlands, France and Belgium. And Sweden is very similar, on the same measure, to Denmark.
    Yes, the per capita figures are here:

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/
    The Netherlands has the 3rd highest deaths per capita on that chart behind Italy and Spain
    Slightly more recent figures are here (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/), but the point is that there is not much difference between the Netherlands, Belgium and France. So we can't yet say they are doing worse than their neighbours... It might turn out to be the case but the jury is still out at present.
    Isn’t their crunch point going to be when other countries start to see the impact of any lockdown? The rate of current increase is going to be similar but when will it stop rising in comparison?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,374
    Alistair said:

    eadric said:

    Alistair said:


    Trump Press conference is on. Gaslighting at maximum levels.

    https://twitter.com/RonaldKlain/status/1245114091338969088?s=19

    Omfffffffg
    From reading bits and bobs it seems like the two cheof medical advisers have basically spent the last week feeding Trump's ego so that he will listen to them. They have publically said the most ridiculous shit about how brilliant Trump is so that they can actually get him to do the right thing.
    If Elon Musk is right, and this is all a simulation.... WTF, I mean this is obviously a simulation by the equivalent of the 2 kids in Weird Science.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    The police are going to use this crisis as an excuse to beef up their drone units, aren't they? Gotta keep themselves safe whilst looking for criminals somehow!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020

    Alistair said:

    eadric said:

    Alistair said:


    Trump Press conference is on. Gaslighting at maximum levels.

    https://twitter.com/RonaldKlain/status/1245114091338969088?s=19

    Omfffffffg
    From reading bits and bobs it seems like the two cheof medical advisers have basically spent the last week feeding Trump's ego so that he will listen to them. They have publically said the most ridiculous shit about how brilliant Trump is so that they can actually get him to do the right thing.
    If Elon Musk is right, and this is all a simulation.... WTF, I mean this is obviously a simulation by the equivalent of the 2 kids in Weird Science.
    Is Global Pandemic a new mode that came as a DLC add-on for War Games?

    Bridge
    Checkers
    Chess
    Poker
    Global Thermonuclear War
    ...
    Global Pandemic
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,374
    And now for something different

    "Remember that classic comedy sketch from Not the Nine O'Clock News, in which a sergeant (Rowan Atkinson) orders a racist constable (Griff Rhys Jones) to stop arresting black people on trumped-up charges. There is no law, the sergeant acidly explains, against “coughing without due care and attention".

    Forty years on, there actually is.”.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,709
    Trump on Cuomo asking for more ventilators: "With some people no matter what you give, it's never enough."
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    And now for something different

    "Remember that classic comedy sketch from Not the Nine O'Clock News, in which a sergeant (Rowan Atkinson) orders a racist constable (Griff Rhys Jones) to stop arresting black people on trumped-up charges. There is no law, the sergeant acidly explains, against “coughing without due care and attention".

    Forty years on, there actually is.”.

    I would like to see arrests for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area too.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    edited March 2020

    Jonathan said:

    What’s going on with UK testing? Something doesn’t add up.

    Can you elaborate?
    The governments failure on testing is completely of its own making, born in the brexit arrogance of unwillingness to learn from and ape other countries. Instead of quickly using a network of public and private laboratories, the UK used just one lab — Public Health England’s Colindale facility in north London, which was processing about 500 tests a day.

    Yes. In any war speed is of the essence. The government took a political decision to keep the testing controlled and in house when there was an option to make use of every testing facility. WHO said test test test and the government ignored them.

    Details here a day ago.

    https://www.ft.com/content/fa747fbd-c19e-4bac-9c37-d46afc9393fb

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    BigRich said:

    egg said:

    Picture an Island in the river. On it hundreds of thousands of our most vulnerable. Above them a creaking damn that if it goes will obliterate the island. And a government doing diddly zilch about the situation.

    That’s the care home crisis of this lazy governments own making.

    And what do you want the government to do exactly?
    I think he wants the government to put hundreds of thousands on a small island in the Thames.

    I mean, it seems a bit cruel to me, but presumably @egg has his reasons.
    Egg has some Rum ideas...
    Some might just say he was Barra'n of ideas....
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    eadric said:


    My hunch is that, in the end, Western European nations will be a wash. No one will do that much better, or worse, and all of them will end in some kind of lockdown, because the death tolls are too traumatic, otherwise.


    That's probably quite unlikely though, simply because it's all being played out on a log scale. Very minor differences in national capacity, policy and sheer luck will be exaggerated massively in differences of death count.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    BigRich said:

    egg said:

    Picture an Island in the river. On it hundreds of thousands of our most vulnerable. Above them a creaking damn that if it goes will obliterate the island. And a government doing diddly zilch about the situation.

    That’s the care home crisis of this lazy governments own making.

    And what do you want the government to do exactly?
    I think he wants the government to put hundreds of thousands on a small island in the Thames.

    I mean, it seems a bit cruel to me, but presumably @egg has his reasons.
    Egg has some Rum ideas...
    Some might just say he was Barra'n of ideas....
    But the testing incompetence will soon be off the headlines like other minor stories. When the creaking dam breaks in front of the ignored and unequipped residential care industry, that is the big story. Most likely the biggest most horrific news story you will endure in your lifetime. ☹️
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,880

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    BigRich said:

    egg said:

    Picture an Island in the river. On it hundreds of thousands of our most vulnerable. Above them a creaking damn that if it goes will obliterate the island. And a government doing diddly zilch about the situation.

    That’s the care home crisis of this lazy governments own making.

    And what do you want the government to do exactly?
    I think he wants the government to put hundreds of thousands on a small island in the Thames.

    I mean, it seems a bit cruel to me, but presumably @egg has his reasons.
    Egg has some Rum ideas...
    Some might just say he was Barra'n of ideas....
    Skye's the limit.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Foxy said:


    It is weird. Clearly there is a massive difference in host response to the virus. Affected by age, sex, BMI, and a host of other factors. Indeed an over exuberant cytokine response by the immune system is probably part of the pathology.

    Are there any other infectious diseases which have such a weird age profile, in particular not affecting children much?
    HIV?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,880

    Alistair said:

    eadric said:

    Alistair said:


    Trump Press conference is on. Gaslighting at maximum levels.

    https://twitter.com/RonaldKlain/status/1245114091338969088?s=19

    Omfffffffg
    From reading bits and bobs it seems like the two cheof medical advisers have basically spent the last week feeding Trump's ego so that he will listen to them. They have publically said the most ridiculous shit about how brilliant Trump is so that they can actually get him to do the right thing.
    If Elon Musk is right, and this is all a simulation.... WTF, I mean this is obviously a simulation by the equivalent of the 2 kids in Weird Science.
    Is Global Pandemic a new mode that came as a DLC add-on for War Games?

    Bridge
    Checkers
    Chess
    Poker
    Global Thermonuclear War
    ...
    Global Pandemic
    https://www.zmangames.com/en/games/pandemic/
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,709
    Charles said:

    Foxy said:


    It is weird. Clearly there is a massive difference in host response to the virus. Affected by age, sex, BMI, and a host of other factors. Indeed an over exuberant cytokine response by the immune system is probably part of the pathology.

    Are there any other infectious diseases which have such a weird age profile, in particular not affecting children much?
    HIV?
    HIV is far more likely to kill you if you catch it at 18 than if you catch it at 90.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    'My name is Toby Young and I approve this message'

    https://twitter.com/milne25/status/1245062553618743296?s=20

    If this is genuine, where are they getting that list of conditions they refer to?

    It is NOT the list of severely or shielded vulnerable who have had a letter from NHS.
    I am surprised it is the Surgery's responsibility to let patients know that detail. If a patient rocked up to A and E at The Princess of Wales Hospital in Bridgend, surely it would be their job to pass on the bad news.
    No the Respect form has been rolled out this year, so these decisions are made in primary care. At least that is what is happening, but it sounds as if Wales is similar.

    https://www.resus.org.uk/respect/
    It's rather stark!

    Am I the only one getting the impression thegovernment's hitherto slick messaging is beginning to unravel this evening?

    Is this because one or both of Cummings and Johnson are temporarily out of the picture?
    Because one GP practice in Wales sent one letter?
    I know Big Dom likes to stick his oar in, but I don't think even he has anything to do with little local GP surgeries in Wales.
    Nothing to do with Dom. Vaughan Gethin is your guilty party here.

    You Tories are all very touchy when anyone questions the government's handling of the Coronavirus. I was just saying the message is less confident than it has been, and the focus is testing.
    I was joking. And not a Tory.

    If you missed on the last thread, I was questioning what the government are doing with the testing.
    Sincere apologies for branding you a Tory.
    Well I did vote for them once, and yet to receive my promised baby to eat. Very disappointing.
    I did get mine, but it was a bit of a disappointment to be honest. Not that the bundle of kale and soya I got for voting LD was that great either to be honest. What do Labour offer as a culinary reward?
    Owl
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    Interesting timeline:
    https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/30/biotech-vc-bob-nelsen-called-it-right-on-the-coronavirus-now-he-has-thoughts-on-therapeutics-and-masks/
    ... But getting back to antibodies, you can use them as a therapy and as prophylaxis. You can imagine a system where you’re using mRNA and antibodies as a ring prophylaxis. Going after health care workers, nursing homes, retirement homes. So if we could insulate the weakest people with underlying health conditions and the weakest in our society with the prophylaxis, they would have a lot less of a problem for round two.

    What is the development timeline for antibodies right now?

    I think what Vir and Regeneron have said is that they will be in the clinic this summer and have something in the fall, if everything goes well....


    Regeneron certainly have the capacity to produce antibodies in bulk, and the technology to develop them pretty quickly.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Petrol at my local filling station has just dropped below a £1 per litre

    99.7p

    I might actually be able to drive my R35 GTR at this rate. (8-10mpg)
    If you get that much fuel economy out of it, you're not driving hard enough! :tongue:
    I could not drive it any harder (on the road). Mine is +100hp and -100kg on a stock one and has a level mechanical grip that could only be described as frightening.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Foxy said:


    It is weird. Clearly there is a massive difference in host response to the virus. Affected by age, sex, BMI, and a host of other factors. Indeed an over exuberant cytokine response by the immune system is probably part of the pathology.

    Are there any other infectious diseases which have such a weird age profile, in particular not affecting children much?
    HIV?
    HIV is far more likely to kill you if you catch it at 18 than if you catch it at 90.
    18 isn’t a child
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,709
    HYUFD said:
    How can you infer anything from data like that?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,003
    Developed some symptoms yesterday, exactly 5 days after my last shopping trip. Might not be Covid. Started with stomach upset with fever and chills by the evening.

    Having trouble sleeping, but will see how I feel in the morning.
  • johnoundlejohnoundle Posts: 120
    edited April 2020
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    ABZ said:

    eadric said:

    HYUFD said:

    Today's US figures look pretty horrible. I just don't see how the Government is ever going to implement the kind of lockdown measures that have worked elsewhere.

    Right this minute, I wouldn't like to put an upper limit on the number of US deaths due the virus or how long the crisis will last there. Is it too extreme to imagine a world that puts the US in quarantine?

    32 out of 50 US states are now in lockdown, Canada, the Netherlands and Sweden are still not in lockdown at all.
    South Korea prioritised mass testing and has also avoided lockdown
    The Netherlands and Sweden now have pretty horrifying death tolls, worse than there neighbours
    Not sure that's true... the deaths per million people are, at present, very similar in Netherlands, France and Belgium. And Sweden is very similar, on the same measure, to Denmark.
    Yes, the per capita figures are here:

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/
    The Netherlands has the 3rd highest deaths per capita on that chart behind Italy and Spain.
    The US is not in the top 10 yet, the UK is 10th and all are European nations bar Iran (though China in reality should also probably be there)

    Sky news reporting that Chinese figures could be out by as much as a factor of 40.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Scott_xP said:

    Developed some symptoms yesterday, exactly 5 days after my last shopping trip. Might not be Covid. Started with stomach upset with fever and chills by the evening.

    Having trouble sleeping, but will see how I feel in the morning.

    All the best
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    It is not known whether the young boy who died today had an underlying condition, say the bbc
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Eadric - lovely. I’ve sent it to my mum, who had her choir practice by Zoom this week.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    BigRich said:

    egg said:

    Picture an Island in the river. On it hundreds of thousands of our most vulnerable. Above them a creaking damn that if it goes will obliterate the island. And a government doing diddly zilch about the situation.

    That’s the care home crisis of this lazy governments own making.

    And what do you want the government to do exactly?
    I think he wants the government to put hundreds of thousands on a small island in the Thames.

    I mean, it seems a bit cruel to me, but presumably @egg has his reasons.
    Egg has some Rum ideas...
    Some might just say he was Barra'n of ideas....
    Skye's the limit.
    I'll Mull that one over....
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    isam said:

    It is not known whether the young boy who died today had an underlying condition, say the bbc

    This keeps happening: one news outlet says "no underlying conditions", another one says "not sure". Maybe it would be best if they waited.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,878
    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    BigRich said:

    egg said:

    Picture an Island in the river. On it hundreds of thousands of our most vulnerable. Above them a creaking damn that if it goes will obliterate the island. And a government doing diddly zilch about the situation.

    That’s the care home crisis of this lazy governments own making.

    And what do you want the government to do exactly?
    I think he wants the government to put hundreds of thousands on a small island in the Thames.

    I mean, it seems a bit cruel to me, but presumably @egg has his reasons.
    Monkey Island?

    https://www.monkeyislandestate.co.uk/

    I used to play British Bulldog on the lawn when I were a kid 😝
    I've seen Guybrush posting, and now Monkey Island reference.
    How many times have you completed them? 1,2 and 3 are all very good. 4 and 5 not so much.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    "According to reports this weekend, the British government has been told the Chinese may have lied about the extent of their own outbreak by a factor of 40."

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-anger-is-growing-at-china-over-covid-19-and-its-apparent-cover-up-attempt-11966539
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    Andy_JS said:

    "According to reports this weekend, the British government has been told the Chinese may have lied about the extent of their own outbreak by a factor of 40."

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-anger-is-growing-at-china-over-covid-19-and-its-apparent-cover-up-attempt-11966539

    Article making unsubstantiated claims about China complains how China is making unsubstantiated claims.
This discussion has been closed.