Alistair Darling, the head of the Better Together campaign, is being targeted personally in what appears to be a clear change in tactics by pro-independence politicians, it emerged last night.
“Rather than debate the issues, or recognise that the nationalist case for breaking up the UK has collapsed, leading nationalists now want their supporters to launch personal attacks on people who they don’t agree with: how depressing.”
You are an MP for a party that has a perception problem, the polls show that for some inexplicable reason you are seen as being the party of the few, not connecting with ordinary people etc.
Clearly the way to show the punters that you aren't the elite sneering down your nose at the peasants is to scream and holler at any suggestion you are elite. That'll show them.
Or perhaps Tebbit has it right. Remember he was the on yer bike employment secretary with a hard message for the working man who at that time was somewhat under the cosh. Not too dissimilar to today if you think about it. Yet the working man connected with him and his party. Why do they not connect with IDS and the current Tory party.
Again with the apology for saying what some don't want to hear, but we are into naked emperor territory here.
The reason people listened to Tebbit was because he was one of them. He was a working class lad who made it to a grammar school and out of the estate.
IDS is a chump, that's why they don't let him get anywhere near TVs. No, the Tories next great hope is Sajid Javid. He is from Rochdale, he grew up in relative poverty as a second generation immigrant. He can speak to ordinary people because he understands what it is to be working class.
There are a lot of working class Tories, very few have been finding success under the current leadership. Javid is one of few. Liz Truss is another. She would be my pick for next leader of the Conservatives and Javid my pick for shadow Chancellor.
Not just the messengers, its the message.
As I've said before, the Tories desperately need their own versions of Kinnock, Smith and Blair before they can win again. Not just cosmetic changes, but slapping the entire party in the face, telling it to grow up, and drag it kicking and screaming into the modern world.
O/T As I said earlier, the media used to have great influence on the political narrative and voters views a while back. They have less readership, and even those left are not as easily influenced as they once were. So when the right wing press tell the country it was a fantastic budget and the country is going great guns, the vast majority look around and say "er, no it is not where I am sitting".
Long may this independence of mind last.
As I said earlier, one party will lose out most because of it.
Even without Mandela's death and the storm surges/flooding relatively few people would've really taken in the Autumn Statement (although having it in December makes the name sound dubious). I'm unsurprised that the People Like Me and The Poor columns have practically identical scores.
I imagine if you'd asked the question before Osborne spoke and Balls replied the numbers would be similar.
Full order books do not register with anyone other than the management classes. All it means for ordinary workers is more unpaid overtime. After 4 years of being an ordinary worker, that is what it means to me.
The government policy which helped me was HtB. It also forced me to buy before I was ready because house prices in W6 started to surge after that policy was introduced. I would have bought one anyway. The improving economy has obviously helped, but I work in an industry that is dependent on a booming economy as it is luxury goods. We can only sell gaming related goods and services in a decent economy. However, as a company SCEE has been recovering anyway from mismanagement and other internal issues, those were not economy dependent and based on our own restructuring and new management drive. Personally I have seen pay rises of around 3-5% a year for the last three years and before that a 5% cut. Like many I had to take a pay cut to save my job. The difference is that unlike others, I have had big pay rises since then and I have been promoted which came with a massive increase in my pay grade.
Whatever the Labour party may or may not do is irrelevant. They are the NOTA choice along with UKIP. They will benefit disproportionately from boundaries being in their favour and from differential turnout. In addition Tory voters have proved over and over again that they don't "get" FPTP so expect a lot of Lab/Lib gains in marginal seats where UKIP appeal to core Tory voters. Labour are going to win the most seats in the HoC and benefit from any improvement that the current government have made to underlying economy. That much is clear.
By siding with big business over the working person (which is in effect what they have done over energy prices) they have told voters "we don't care about you, our mates in big business come first". Ed Balls and Ed Miliband will drive that point home over and over again. By allowing corporate profits to rise and director pay to rise at record pace while keeping minimum wage rises below inflation they are telling people "we don't care about you, our mates in big business come first". Ed Balls and Ed Miliband will drive that point home over and over again. In every single argument where it is big or small business vs "the people" the Tories are on the side of business. That may make sense in a normal economy in order to generate jobs, but businesses are not investing, they are not increasing pay and they are hoarding cash. The Tory party must act, and act fast in order to unlock that cash either by incentivising investment or by raising the minimum wage. However, it is too late in the day to give businesses more tax breaks and hope they create jobs, there are 17 months left until the election, and an above inflation rise in the minimum wage to take money off company balance sheets and put it into the hands of the working poor is the policy the government need to look at. It solves all of their problems.
Re Liz Truss, does anyone know more about this "mini jobs" thing she's interested in?
Is it essentially allowing people to work relatively few hours, for low wages (below minimum if they want), whilst still being able to claim all benefits and / or being exempt from income tax?
Full order books do not register with anyone other than the management classes. All it means for ordinary workers is more unpaid overtime. After 4 years of being an ordinary worker, that is what it means to me.
The government policy which helped me was HtB. It also forced me to buy before I was ready because house prices in W6 started to surge after that policy was introduced. I would have bought one anyway. The improving economy has obviously helped, but I work in an industry that is dependent on a booming economy as it is luxury goods. We can only sell gaming related goods and services in a decent economy. However, as a company SCEE has been recovering anyway from mismanagement and other internal issues, those were not economy dependent and based on our own restructuring and new management drive. Personally I have seen pay rises of around 3-5% a year for the last three years and before that a 5% cut. Like many I had to take a pay cut to save my job. The difference is that unlike others, I have had big pay rises since then and I have been promoted which came with a massive increase in my pay grade.
Whatever the Labour party may or may not do is irrelevant. They are the NOTA choice along with UKIP. They will benefit disproportionately from boundaries being in their favour and from differential turnout. In addition Tory voters have proved over and over again that they don't "get" FPTP so expect a lot of Lab/Lib gains in marginal seats where UKIP appeal to core Tory voters. Labour are going to win the most seats in the HoC and benefit from any improvement that the current government have made to underlying economy. That much is clear.
By siding with big business over the working person (which is in effect what they have done over energy prices) they have told voters "we don't care about you, our mates in big business come first". Ed Balls and Ed Miliband will drive that point home over and over again. By allowing corporate profits to rise and director pay to rise at record pace while keeping minimum wage rises below inflation they are telling people "we don't care about you, our mates in big business come first". Ed Balls and Ed Miliband will drive that point home over and over again. In every single argument where it is big or small business vs "the people" the Tories are on the side of business. That may make sense in a normal economy in order to generate jobs, but businesses are not investing, they are not increasing pay and they are hoarding cash. The Tory party must act, and act fast in order to unlock that cash either by incentivising investment or by raising the minimum wage. However, it is too late in the day to give businesses more tax breaks and hope they create jobs, there are 17 months left until the election, and an above inflation rise in the minimum wage to take money off company balance sheets and put it into the hands of the working poor is the policy the government need to look at. It solves all of their problems.
Max PB - The people you are trying to talk to wont listen, you only have to see some of the responses on here to what you have already posted. I may be wrong, however, I also think you already know this.
I really did find the idea from Westminster journalists yesterday that Osborne and the Tories "won" simply because their MPs cheered louder and because Ed Balls got a red face to be truly bizarre. It's a reminder that Westminster hacks occupy a different world to the rest of us, do they really think people in the real world would be swayed by such superficial XFactor-style nonsense as that?
Frankly I think virtually anyone who saw the travesty in the Commons yesterday would've just been repelled by politics as a whole, but for anyone who did pay attention to the arguments, millionaires smugly telling people on the breadline that their poverty is in their imagination, that they should just be grateful for what they've got, was always going to go down like a lead balloon.
If you had watched the AS on TV you would have seen that the Labour MPs knew the game was up and looked very dispirited.
Alistair Darling, the head of the Better Together campaign, is being targeted personally in what appears to be a clear change in tactics by pro-independence politicians, it emerged last night.
“Rather than debate the issues, or recognise that the nationalist case for breaking up the UK has collapsed, leading nationalists now want their supporters to launch personal attacks on people who they don’t agree with: how depressing.”
Yup, at last the Tories are taking the lead in the independence debate.
'According to the paper, one senior Tory figure said: “The man has never run a campaign. He is comatose most of the time.” A Downing Street source was also quoted as describing Mr Darling as a “dreary figurehead” for such an important campaign.'
Freggles: those young hipsters (and they don't all have long beards and ride fixies - most are normal) have now reached a critical mass where they affect the outlook of the previous dolite kings, who are themselves are now adapting their outlook and attitude. Out go the hoodies, the trackies and trainers. No admiring glances there. In come the shirts, the strides and the shoes. And with that comes employment. And a lifestyle that people won;'t readily give up. It's all good. Very memic having a job. Bit naff not to have one. Of course, the greater mass of the people who live there are middling anonymous people who just go with the flow - God knows what tehy do but they don't really influence things. But it's definitely now the work-hard brigade who set the example. They are the ones sending the ripples.
I am not diminishing Mandela. Just pointing out that other South African leaders are far inferior, which should match your own views.
Still Zuma has his own swivel eyed loons to deal with. Julia's Malema may well be in the next parliament, courtesy of the disillusionment of South Africans with "the Black Boers" of the ANC.
Yup, at last the Tories are taking the lead in the independence debate.
Tories like this guy...
Today, Jim Sillars, the former Deputy Leader of the SNP, will address a Socialist Voice Conference in Edinburgh where he is expected to focus on Mr Darling’s time as Chancellor
Positive campaign all the way to inevitable defeat
I am not diminishing Mandela. Just pointing out that other South African leaders are far inferior, which should match your own views.
Still Zuma has his own swivel eyed loons to deal with. Julia's Malena may well be in the next parliament, courtesy of the disillusionment of South Africans with "the Black Boers" of the ANC.
I'm not sure posting stories about Eden depletes Churchill, but whatever turns you on.
It does, Zuma isn't fit to tie Mandelas bootlaces.
What I have enjoyed today though is the PB Tories who believe the 2003 GP contract is responsible for the 2012/3 rise in A&E admissions pumping the line that because Mandela hadn't sorted the legacy of 100 years of cancerous racism within five years he wasn't quite worthy of all the praise.
Yeah. Was the tip yours? I remember reading it on here, didn't bet on it as I went out and got lashed instead, can't remember quite what it was now - without Joey?
The question is how the Conservative Party lost it's traditional connection with the working man - the connection that won Thatcher three majorities.
According to respondents the answer is Labour people they dont like and some Labour policies they don't like.
Yes, I'm sure that's the reason. Nothing whatsoever to do with the Conservative Party that the Conservative Party doesn't connect with the people the Conservative Party needs to vote for them, no its all because Ed is crap.
First off two apologies. For mostly lurking and not posting (too busy to keep up with most threads due to work & kids), and secondly in advance of what I am about to write which will incur abuse/ridicule from those who don't want to hear it.
There are two economies. The first economy is what Osborne projects. For a few things are good and they are getting better. You can't deny this economy isn't real because all the data insists that it is. This economy is occupied by a small percentage of the population, and aspired towards by another percentage of right-leaning voters who'd like it to be true. In reality these voters occupy the second economy along with the rest of us in broke as fuck land.
In Broke as Fuck land you work your arse off, with wages rising at half the official rate of inflation at best. Then you look at prices skyrocketing and laugh at the official rate of inflation which clearly occupies the official economy and not the fuckland economy. In this economy we carry on as best we can, and even maybe join in the "kick a begger" agenda we read in the Daily Mail, but can't get away from running an ever tighter budget due to the ever decreasing amount of money.
Governments of the right have successfully farmed votes in their millions from people in this economy - yes its tough but its genuinely getting better and here is your ladder, look you can actually feel it in your hands, see how its getting easier and you can have some nice things to show for your graft. Sadly for this government there is no ladder, no recognition that there is any other economy than the official one.
And what is the thing that annoys the tens of millions of us in fuckland? Being told by condescending sneering wassocks that black is white, a bill rise is a cut, and there is no cost of living / unemployment / poor wages / global businesses taking us for a ride / don't own anything problem after all, its all just a figment of our imaginations due to our low IQs.
Until Tories of PB or elsewhere get this, you are doomed. You will sit inside your ever-contracting bubble and gnash and snarl at the ingrates out there who don't get it. The Tory party for decades connected with the working man, understood their lot, and not only delivered policies for them but were seen to do so. This financial crisis has succeeded in kicking over the working class / middle class divider for many of us - we are all in this together but not in the way that Cameron originally meant it (as it excludes his government from the equation). You don't get ordinary people and how we live, and frankly give no signs of ever getting it. And thats why this MORI poll is such a shock for you.
Try this. Don't tell people what a wonderful job the economy is, how austerity has succeeded. From your gold throne. Go and do a Major, walk round Brixton market and ask if it is succeeding. Then do something about it. A clue - Osborne has the second most punchable face in politics behind Clegg. You want to connect with fuckland voters and win the election, fire Osborne.
What you really mean is that you can no longer borrow to finance a lifestyle you could not afford in the first place.
It's called reality and it was brought on by the reckless policies of the last Government, as confirmed by Liam Byrne.
Tim - As you seen incapable of not following Mike Smithson's instructions about not referencing Plato in any way, your posting privileges have been revoked.
Perhaps you will take this opportunity to reflect on what happens when you repeatedly violate the site rules.
Yup, at last the Tories are taking the lead in the independence debate.
Tories like this guy...
Today, Jim Sillars, the former Deputy Leader of the SNP, will address a Socialist Voice Conference in Edinburgh where he is expected to focus on Mr Darling’s time as Chancellor
Positive campaign all the way to inevitable defeat
You're positing Sillars as representative of the SNP and/or the Yes campaign?
Light bulb moment, I've suddenly realised you really do know the square root of feck all about Scottish politics.
The question is how the Conservative Party lost it's traditional connection with the working man - the connection that won Thatcher three majorities.
According to respondents the answer is Labour people they dont like and some Labour policies they don't like.
Yes, I'm sure that's the reason. Nothing whatsoever to do with the Conservative Party that the Conservative Party doesn't connect with the people the Conservative Party needs to vote for them, no its all because Ed is crap.
I think the question is how the Labour Party lost it's connection with the working.
Yeah. Was the tip yours? I remember reading it on here, didn't bet on it as I went out and got lashed instead, can't remember quite what it was now - without Joey?
I'm on £8 at 20-1 w/o Joey at Ladbrokes, £1.67 (Restricted stake) 64-1 Top Male with 888
-221.99 DE / +34.20 The Field Winner with Betfair -51 DE/ +3.80 Winner w/o Joey Essex
The question is how the Conservative Party lost it's traditional connection with the working man - the connection that won Thatcher three majorities.
According to respondents the answer is Labour people they dont like and some Labour policies they don't like.
Yes, I'm sure that's the reason. Nothing whatsoever to do with the Conservative Party that the Conservative Party doesn't connect with the people the Conservative Party needs to vote for them, no its all because Ed is crap.
Quite so. Attack and smear and all the rest of it is fine, and my oh my do the Tories do it.
But they need to work out how they can sell themselves to modern Britain too, or they will never win again. A thread on PB about it would be fascinating for the responses, and the outstanding Tory poster MaxPB has written the bones of one below.
The question is how the Conservative Party lost it's traditional connection with the working man - the connection that won Thatcher three majorities.
According to respondents the answer is Labour people they dont like and some Labour policies they don't like.
Yes, I'm sure that's the reason. Nothing whatsoever to do with the Conservative Party that the Conservative Party doesn't connect with the people the Conservative Party needs to vote for them, no its all because Ed is crap.
The Cameroons are globalists - like most people in the 1%.
What are Cameron and Osborne interested in - 'world cities' or medium sized towns in middle England.
Places which sound like a Champions League final - Munich v Milan - or places which sound like a Northern Premier League match - Stalybridge v Stocksbridge.
We know the answer but its Stalybridge and Stocksbridge where the Conservatives need to gain votes.
The Cameroons have no experience with the 'working man', no interest in and no empathy towards.
In some cases it might be worse and a feeling of personal hostility.
Absolutely wasted again. Such are Fridays in December.
Some frankly bonkers posts in a classic Friday night thread that will have the PB Lefties reaching for another beer or three as they contemplate the deranged ramblings of their opponents.
If this morning's bonkers-fest in which some compared an avowed racist with Mandela and wondered aloud whether certain historical figures were in Hollywood pictures weren't enough, we now enjoy the spectacle of some of our dimmer colleagues on the Right defending the ludicrous George Osborne.
Shape up. Wise up.
You need people who understand the working man. Rob Halfon. Doug Carswell. A decent day's pay for a decent day's work.
It's not so hard. But there are none as blind as those who cannot see.
Absolutely wasted again. Such are Fridays in December.
Some frankly bonkers posts in a classic Friday night thread that will have the PB Lefties reaching for another beer or three as they contemplate the deranged ramblings of their opponents.
If this morning's bonkers-fest in which some compared an avowed racist with Mandela and wondered aloud whether certain historical figures were in Hollywood pictures weren't enough, we now enjoy the spectacle of some of our dimmer colleagues on the Right defending the ludicrous George Osborne.
Shape up. Wise up.
You need people who understand the working man. Rob Halfon. Doug Carswell. A decent day's pay for a decent day's work.
It's not so hard. But there are none as blind as those who cannot see.
Cheers!
Labour certainly don't understand the working man, only UKIP do.
Absolutely wasted again. Such are Fridays in December.
Some frankly bonkers posts in a classic Friday night thread that will have the PB Lefties reaching for another beer or three as they contemplate the deranged ramblings of their opponents.
If this morning's bonkers-fest in which some compared an avowed racist with Mandela and wondered aloud whether certain historical figures were in Hollywood pictures weren't enough, we now enjoy the spectacle of some of our dimmer colleagues on the Right defending the ludicrous George Osborne.
Shape up. Wise up.
You need people who understand the working man. Rob Halfon. Doug Carswell. A decent day's pay for a decent day's work.
It's not so hard. But there are none as blind as those who cannot see.
Cheers!
Hmmm,
If that is the answer then the question must be:
What would a stupid Northern* benefit-seeker post at-or-around midnight on a Friday? [Please show evidence through your own workings and observations,]
* Currently pushing-up London housing and childcare costs one must add!
Absolutely wasted again. Such are Fridays in December.
Some frankly bonkers posts in a classic Friday night thread that will have the PB Lefties reaching for another beer or three as they contemplate the deranged ramblings of their opponents.
If this morning's bonkers-fest in which some compared an avowed racist with Mandela and wondered aloud whether certain historical figures were in Hollywood pictures weren't enough, we now enjoy the spectacle of some of our dimmer colleagues on the Right defending the ludicrous George Osborne.
Shape up. Wise up.
You need people who understand the working man. Rob Halfon. Doug Carswell. A decent day's pay for a decent day's work.
It's not so hard. But there are none as blind as those who cannot see.
Cheers!
Labour certainly don't understand the working man, only UKIP do.
Labour is the party of the working man. But I agree that Ukip understand better than the Tories, that is clear.
Ozzy banging on about a recovery when wages aren't keeping up with prices. Whatever happened to putting the pound back in working peoples' pockets?
The question is how the Conservative Party lost it's traditional connection with the working man - the connection that won Thatcher three majorities.
According to respondents the answer is Labour people they dont like and some Labour policies they don't like.
Yes, I'm sure that's the reason. Nothing whatsoever to do with the Conservative Party that the Conservative Party doesn't connect with the people the Conservative Party needs to vote for them, no its all because Ed is crap.
The Cameroons are globalists - like most people in the 1%.
What are Cameron and Osborne interested in - 'world cities' or medium sized towns in middle England.
Places which sound like a Champions League final - Munich v Milan - or places which sound like a Northern Premier League match - Stalybridge v Stocksbridge.
We know the answer but its Stalybridge and Stocksbridge where the Conservatives need to gain votes.
The Cameroons have no experience with the 'working man', no interest in and no empathy towards.
In some cases it might be worse and a feeling of personal hostility.
Which I will expound on in another post.
Another good post from the working man's rightwinger. Would it that the Tories listened to people like you.
Absolutely wasted again. Such are Fridays in December.
Some frankly bonkers posts in a classic Friday night thread that will have the PB Lefties reaching for another beer or three as they contemplate the deranged ramblings of their opponents.
If this morning's bonkers-fest in which some compared an avowed racist with Mandela and wondered aloud whether certain historical figures were in Hollywood pictures weren't enough, we now enjoy the spectacle of some of our dimmer colleagues on the Right defending the ludicrous George Osborne.
Shape up. Wise up.
You need people who understand the working man. Rob Halfon. Doug Carswell. A decent day's pay for a decent day's work.
It's not so hard. But there are none as blind as those who cannot see.
Cheers!
Labour certainly don't understand the working man, only UKIP do.
Labour is the party of the working man. But I agree that Ukip understand better than the Tories, that is clear.
Ozzy banging on about a recovery when wages aren't keeping up with prices. Whatever happened to putting the pound back in working peoples' pockets?
Go and ask WWC what they think of Labour.
They used to be the party of the working man but that ended a long time ago and will never come back.
Absolutely wasted again. Such are Fridays in December.
Some frankly bonkers posts in a classic Friday night thread that will have the PB Lefties reaching for another beer or three as they contemplate the deranged ramblings of their opponents.
If this morning's bonkers-fest in which some compared an avowed racist with Mandela and wondered aloud whether certain historical figures were in Hollywood pictures weren't enough, we now enjoy the spectacle of some of our dimmer colleagues on the Right defending the ludicrous George Osborne.
Shape up. Wise up.
You need people who understand the working man. Rob Halfon. Doug Carswell. A decent day's pay for a decent day's work.
It's not so hard. But there are none as blind as those who cannot see.
Cheers!
Labour certainly don't understand the working man, only UKIP do.
Labour is the party of the working man. But I agree that Ukip understand better than the Tories, that is clear.
Ozzy banging on about a recovery when wages aren't keeping up with prices. Whatever happened to putting the pound back in working peoples' pockets?
MaxPB, Another-Richard and Nigel4England are no longer Tories. Decent family men who are interested in putting the pound in working people's pockets. The Tory Party abandoned those guys long ago.
Absolutely wasted again. Such are Fridays in December.
Some frankly bonkers posts in a classic Friday night thread that will have the PB Lefties reaching for another beer or three as they contemplate the deranged ramblings of their opponents.
If this morning's bonkers-fest in which some compared an avowed racist with Mandela and wondered aloud whether certain historical figures were in Hollywood pictures weren't enough, we now enjoy the spectacle of some of our dimmer colleagues on the Right defending the ludicrous George Osborne.
Shape up. Wise up.
You need people who understand the working man. Rob Halfon. Doug Carswell. A decent day's pay for a decent day's work.
It's not so hard. But there are none as blind as those who cannot see.
Cheers!
Labour certainly don't understand the working man, only UKIP do.
Labour is the party of the working man. But I agree that Ukip understand better than the Tories, that is clear.
Ozzy banging on about a recovery when wages aren't keeping up with prices. Whatever happened to putting the pound back in working peoples' pockets?
Go and ask WWC what they think of Labour.
They used to be the party of the working man but that ended a long time ago and will never come back.
Nigel - we've had this conversation before and you know the stats show that Labour carry the WWC by a big margin. If you are saying that Labour could and should do more for its core vote then I agree. But it is nothing if not a broad church.
Absolutely wasted again. Such are Fridays in December.
Some frankly bonkers posts in a classic Friday night thread that will have the PB Lefties reaching for another beer or three as they contemplate the deranged ramblings of their opponents.
If this morning's bonkers-fest in which some compared an avowed racist with Mandela and wondered aloud whether certain historical figures were in Hollywood pictures weren't enough, we now enjoy the spectacle of some of our dimmer colleagues on the Right defending the ludicrous George Osborne.
Shape up. Wise up.
You need people who understand the working man. Rob Halfon. Doug Carswell. A decent day's pay for a decent day's work.
It's not so hard. But there are none as blind as those who cannot see.
Cheers!
Hmmm,
If that is the answer then the question must be:
What would a stupid Northern* benefit-seeker post at-or-around midnight on a Friday? [Please show evidence through your own workings and observations,]
* Currently pushing-up London housing and childcare costs one must add!
Just another working man who wants to support his family. Guilty as charged.
MaxPB, Another-Richard and Nigel4England are no longer Tories. Decent family men who are interested in putting the pound in working people's pockets. The Tory Party abandoned those guys long ago.
MaxPB, Another-Richard and Nigel4England are no longer Tories. Decent family men who are interested in putting the pound in working people's pockets. The Tory Party abandoned those guys long ago.
Well two of them are ukippers I think
I'm not surprised. The Tories abandoned those guys long ago.
MaxPB, Another-Richard and Nigel4England are no longer Tories. Decent family men who are interested in putting the pound in working people's pockets. The Tory Party abandoned those guys long ago.
Well two of them are ukippers I think
I'm not.
Though I'm likely to vote UKIP in 2015.
Not because I'm impressed by UKIP but because they're not LibLabCon big government, big business big culture establishment.
There's a few Conservative MPs I would still vote for - David Davis, Richard Shepherd, Douglas Carswell for instance - but these people are regarded as free thinking rebels.
Absolutely wasted again. Such are Fridays in December.
Some frankly bonkers posts in a classic Friday night thread that will have the PB Lefties reaching for another beer or three as they contemplate the deranged ramblings of their opponents.
If this morning's bonkers-fest in which some compared an avowed racist with Mandela and wondered aloud whether certain historical figures were in Hollywood pictures weren't enough, we now enjoy the spectacle of some of our dimmer colleagues on the Right defending the ludicrous George Osborne.
Shape up. Wise up.
You need people who understand the working man. Rob Halfon. Doug Carswell. A decent day's pay for a decent day's work.
It's not so hard. But there are none as blind as those who cannot see.
Cheers!
Labour certainly don't understand the working man, only UKIP do.
Labour is the party of the working man. But I agree that Ukip understand better than the Tories, that is clear.
Ozzy banging on about a recovery when wages aren't keeping up with prices. Whatever happened to putting the pound back in working peoples' pockets?
Go and ask WWC what they think of Labour.
They used to be the party of the working man but that ended a long time ago and will never come back.
I barely know anyone who isn't WWC and no one I know would vote Labour
'Just another working man who wants to support his family. Guilty as charged.'
Translation:
Just another man who wants other taxpayers to support his family.
....and people wonder why there is a hatred towards the Tory Party in vast swathes across the country, north, midlands and parts of the south, when a post appears like that.
PB Hodges in their prime...carry on carrying on, it is working wonders:
Absolutely wasted again. Such are Fridays in December.
Some frankly bonkers posts in a classic Friday night thread that will have the PB Lefties reaching for another beer or three as they contemplate the deranged ramblings of their opponents.
If this morning's bonkers-fest in which some compared an avowed racist with Mandela and wondered aloud whether certain historical figures were in Hollywood pictures weren't enough, we now enjoy the spectacle of some of our dimmer colleagues on the Right defending the ludicrous George Osborne.
Shape up. Wise up.
You need people who understand the working man. Rob Halfon. Doug Carswell. A decent day's pay for a decent day's work.
It's not so hard. But there are none as blind as those who cannot see.
Cheers!
Labour certainly don't understand the working man, only UKIP do.
Labour is the party of the working man. But I agree that Ukip understand better than the Tories, that is clear.
Ozzy banging on about a recovery when wages aren't keeping up with prices. Whatever happened to putting the pound back in working peoples' pockets?
Go and ask WWC what they think of Labour.
They used to be the party of the working man but that ended a long time ago and will never come back.
I barely know anyone who isn't WWC and no one I know would vote Labour
I know loads of (WWC*) people who would vote Labour, probably because loads of WWC people vote Labour. And a few who I'd put down as UKIP, now you come to mention it.
But very, very few who would vote Tory. In fact, there's quite some loathing for the Tories. I think we can all agree that the Tories have abandoned the normal folk of this country. And to think they used to be the Party of the working person.
*I hate that, actually. That "WWC" shorthand thing. I don't know what it is about it. Demeaning and horrible and has slightly nasty undertones somehow.
O/T - This agrees with the header above "Ministers may have to cut much more than anticipated to pay for pledges made in yesterday's Autumn Statement, the Institute for Fiscal Studies warned today.
The IFS said George Osborne had committed to £7bn of spending which had not been accounted for beyond 2015/16.
The thinktank's director, Paul Johnson, said there was a "fixed envelope" of spending which the Government "keep trying to stuff more into".
Labour also welcomed the IFS' confirmation of their claim that households have seen an average income drop of £1600 since 2010.
Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury Chris Leslie claimed the analysis showed the Autumn Statement had "failed millions of ordinary people".
The analysis follows a poll which shows the public remains split about the impact of the Government’s economic policies, despite improving economic data.
Ipsos MORI found that 40% of people believe the Government’s policies will improve the state of the economy, compared to 38% who think they will harm the recovery.
Earlier today Mr Osborne acknowledged that savers were being hit as a result of the sustained low interest rates.
"Of course, one of the problems with low interest rates is for savers, and that's one of the paradoxes of recovery and one of the paradoxes of an economic calamity like the one that befell Britain in 2008-09, which is you need to have low interest rates to help the economy recover and the people who pay the price for that are the people who 'have done the right thing and saved'," he told the Today programme.
"What I want to do is make sure that we have that balanced economy, that we're able to support savers."
The Ipsos MORI survey also endorsed Ed Balls’ criticism that the Chancellor was “in denial” about the living standards struggles facing millions of households. Four in ten people agree with Mr Balls, compared to 27% disagreeing."
Keep looking from inside the bubble and keep telling the vast majority outside how good it really is.
Absolutely wasted again. Such are Fridays in December.
Some frankly bonkers posts in a classic Friday night thread that will have the PB Lefties reaching for another beer or three as they contemplate the deranged ramblings of their opponents.
If this morning's bonkers-fest in which some compared an avowed racist with Mandela and wondered aloud whether certain historical figures were in Hollywood pictures weren't enough, we now enjoy the spectacle of some of our dimmer colleagues on the Right defending the ludicrous George Osborne.
Shape up. Wise up.
You need people who understand the working man. Rob Halfon. Doug Carswell. A decent day's pay for a decent day's work.
It's not so hard. But there are none as blind as those who cannot see.
Cheers!
Labour certainly don't understand the working man, only UKIP do.
Labour is the party of the working man. But I agree that Ukip understand better than the Tories, that is clear.
Ozzy banging on about a recovery when wages aren't keeping up with prices. Whatever happened to putting the pound back in working peoples' pockets?
Go and ask WWC what they think of Labour.
They used to be the party of the working man but that ended a long time ago and will never come back.
I barely know anyone who isn't WWC and no one I know would vote Labour
I know loads of (WWC*) people who would vote Labour, probably because loads of WWC people vote Labour. And a few who I'd put down as UKIP, now you come to mention it.
But very, very few who would vote Tory. In fact, there's quite some loathing for the Tories. I think we can all agree that the Tories have abandoned the normal folk of this country. And to think they used to be the Party of the working person.
*I hate that, actually. That "WWC" shorthand thing. I don't know what it is about it. Demeaning and horrible and has slightly nasty undertones somehow.
Small disclaimer, almost all the people I know were born working class, some now run small businesses
I genuinely don't think I knock about with anyone who would vote labour. I am the only one out of all my friends/girlfriends that ever has and I won't again in all likelihood
Parents have always voted Labour, but Dad now Ukip I think, and mater can't have EdM !
Bobajob spends his time whining about his marginal tax rate,lives in London where there are lots of well paid jobs,but maybe he'll get some childcare help if Labour wins in 2015 ,which of course will be wiped out when mortgage interest rates increase.
But don't let facts get in the way of PB Kinnocks.
There are only 3 parties the white working class tend to vote for now if they vote at all, Labour, UKIP and, sadly, the BNP. The Tories, LDs and Greens are all largely parties of the middle class (Labour is too now at the leadership level, although its voters and the odd MP still tend to be more working class)
In some cases it might be worse and a feeling of personal hostility.
Which I will expound on in another post.
To expand this in rough thoughts:
There has always been an element in what I'll term the business overclass of opposition, dislike even hatred towards the 'workers'. **
The more the workers earn the less there is for the 'bosses', the business overclass.
Now with globalisation the physical and psychological separation between the businiess overclass and both the workers and consumers has grown.
IIRC it was Mr Jones who described it as 'pay Eastern wages, sell at Western prices, pay tax at Monaco rates'.
The problem the Conservatives have is that they have always been associated with capitalism, businessmen etc.
In previous generations this meant someone local and someone successful. Now its associated with nebulous globalised entities, profiteering, greedy and uncontrolled. But always willing to demand a bailout after they feck up.
And so the continual 'trade diplomacy', the likes of which Cameron and Osborne have been in China on, looks like a government acting as the pimp of globalised big business.
** An amusing anecdote I heard of this involoved Samuel Brittan, the FT columnist and brother of Leon Brittan.
He was once driving in his Rolls-Royce with some equally grand members of the commentariat - it may have been to a Conservative conference in Blackpool. While Brittan was expounding his views the car breaks down. Nobody knows how to fix it but fortnately a white van man stops and offers help. After a few minutes the car is fixed and they're driving again. Samuel Brittan restarts the conversation "As I was saying the working class are completely without merit" ;-)
'Just another working man who wants to support his family. Guilty as charged.'
Translation:
Just another man who wants other taxpayers to support his family.
....and people wonder why there is a hatred towards the Tory Party in vast swathes across the country, north, midlands and parts of the south, when a post appears like that.
PB Hodges in their prime...carry on carrying on, it is working wonders:
For what it's worth my family are massive net contributors but the idiots on think others are supporting me. There comes a time when you know it's best to stop trying to explain it to them.
'Just another working man who wants to support his family. Guilty as charged.'
Translation:
Just another man who wants other taxpayers to support his family.
....and people wonder why there is a hatred towards the Tory Party in vast swathes across the country, north, midlands and parts of the south, when a post appears like that.
PB Hodges in their prime...carry on carrying on, it is working wonders:
For what it's worth my family are massive net contributors but the idiots on think others are supporting me. There comes a time when you know it's best to stop trying to explain it to them.
'Just another working man who wants to support his family. Guilty as charged.'
Translation:
Just another man who wants other taxpayers to support his family.
....and people wonder why there is a hatred towards the Tory Party in vast swathes across the country, north, midlands and parts of the south, when a post appears like that.
PB Hodges in their prime...carry on carrying on, it is working wonders:
For what it's worth my family are massive net contributors but the idiots on think others are supporting me. There comes a time when you know it's best to stop trying to explain it to them.
Bobajob spends his time whining about his marginal tax rate,lives in London where there are lots of well paid jobs,but maybe he'll get some childcare help if Labour wins in 2015 ,which of course will be wiped out when mortgage interest rates increase.
But don't let facts get in the way of PB Kinnocks.
How much do you think my family pays in tax compared to what we take in benefits and services?
Absolutely wasted again. Such are Fridays in December.
Some frankly bonkers posts in a classic Friday night thread that will have the PB Lefties reaching for another beer or three as they contemplate the deranged ramblings of their opponents.
If this morning's bonkers-fest in which some compared an avowed racist with Mandela and wondered aloud whether certain historical figures were in Hollywood pictures weren't enough, we now enjoy the spectacle of some of our dimmer colleagues on the Right defending the ludicrous George Osborne.
Shape up. Wise up.
You need people who understand the working man. Rob Halfon. Doug Carswell. A decent day's pay for a decent day's work.
It's not so hard. But there are none as blind as those who cannot see.
Cheers!
Labour certainly don't understand the working man, only UKIP do.
Labour is the party of the working man. But I agree that Ukip understand better than the Tories, that is clear.
Ozzy banging on about a recovery when wages aren't keeping up with prices. Whatever happened to putting the pound back in working peoples' pockets?
Go and ask WWC what they think of Labour.
They used to be the party of the working man but that ended a long time ago and will never come back.
I barely know anyone who isn't WWC and no one I know would vote Labour
I know loads of (WWC*) people who would vote Labour, probably because loads of WWC people vote Labour. And a few who I'd put down as UKIP, now you come to mention it.
But very, very few who would vote Tory. In fact, there's quite some loathing for the Tories. I think we can all agree that the Tories have abandoned the normal folk of this country. And to think they used to be the Party of the working person.
*I hate that, actually. That "WWC" shorthand thing. I don't know what it is about it. Demeaning and horrible and has slightly nasty undertones somehow.
Small disclaimer, almost all the people I know were born working class, some now run small businesses
I genuinely don't think I knock about with anyone who would vote labour. I am the only one out of all my friends/girlfriends that ever has and I won't again in all likelihood
Parents have always voted Labour, but Dad now Ukip I think, and mater can't have EdM !
Heh. No point trading anecdotes, that way lies madness. Fortunately, we have polling data.
Whilst I remember, could you donate my winnings on Lib Dems getting more votes than UKIP in 2015 to Shelter please? Ta.
England another wicket down I see. Hmph. Need to bat out today, or the series is gone. Ah well.
O/T - This agrees with the header above "Ministers may have to cut much more than anticipated to pay for pledges made in yesterday's Autumn Statement, the Institute for Fiscal Studies warned today.
The IFS said George Osborne had committed to £7bn of spending which had not been accounted for beyond 2015/16.
The thinktank's director, Paul Johnson, said there was a "fixed envelope" of spending which the Government "keep trying to stuff more into".
Labour also welcomed the IFS' confirmation of their claim that households have seen an average income drop of £1600 since 2010.
Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury Chris Leslie claimed the analysis showed the Autumn Statement had "failed millions of ordinary people".
The analysis follows a poll which shows the public remains split about the impact of the Government’s economic policies, despite improving economic data.
Ipsos MORI found that 40% of people believe the Government’s policies will improve the state of the economy, compared to 38% who think they will harm the recovery.
Earlier today Mr Osborne acknowledged that savers were being hit as a result of the sustained low interest rates.
"Of course, one of the problems with low interest rates is for savers, and that's one of the paradoxes of recovery and one of the paradoxes of an economic calamity like the one that befell Britain in 2008-09, which is you need to have low interest rates to help the economy recover and the people who pay the price for that are the people who 'have done the right thing and saved'," he told the Today programme.
"What I want to do is make sure that we have that balanced economy, that we're able to support savers."
The Ipsos MORI survey also endorsed Ed Balls’ criticism that the Chancellor was “in denial” about the living standards struggles facing millions of households. Four in ten people agree with Mr Balls, compared to 27% disagreeing."
Keep looking from inside the bubble and keep telling the vast majority outside how good it really is.
In some cases it might be worse and a feeling of personal hostility.
Which I will expound on in another post.
To expand this in rough thoughts:
There has always been an element in what I'll term the business overclass of opposition, dislike even hatred towards the 'workers'. **
The more the workers earn the less there is for the 'bosses', the business overclass.
Now with globalisation the physical and psychological separation between the businiess overclass and both the workers and consumers has grown.
IIRC it was Mr Jones who described it as 'pay Eastern wages, sell at Western prices, pay tax at Monaco rates'.
The problem the Conservatives have is that they have always been associated with capitalism, businessmen etc.
In previous generations this meant someone local and someone successful. Now its associated with nebulous globalised entities, profiteering, greedy and uncontrolled. But always willing to demand a bailout after they feck up.
And so the continual 'trade diplomacy', the likes of which Cameron and Osborne have been in China on, looks like a government acting as the pimp of globalised big business.
** An amusing anecdote I heard of this involoved Samuel Brittan, the FT columnist and brother of Leon Brittan.
He was once driving in his Rolls-Royce with some equally grand members of the commentariat - it may have been to a Conservative conference in Blackpool. While Brittan was expounding his views the car breaks down. Nobody knows how to fix it but fortnately a white van man stops and offers help. After a few minutes the car is fixed and they're driving again. Samuel Brittan restarts the conversation "As I was saying the working class are completely without merit" ;-)
Absolutely wasted again. Such are Fridays in December.
Some frankly bonkers posts in a classic Friday night thread that will have the PB Lefties reaching for another beer or three as they contemplate the deranged ramblings of their opponents.
If this morning's bonkers-fest in which some compared an avowed racist with Mandela and wondered aloud whether certain historical figures were in Hollywood pictures weren't enough, we now enjoy the spectacle of some of our dimmer colleagues on the Right defending the ludicrous George Osborne.
Shape up. Wise up.
You need people who understand the working man. Rob Halfon. Doug Carswell. A decent day's pay for a decent day's work.
It's not so hard. But there are none as blind as those who cannot see.
Cheers!
Labour certainly don't understand the working man, only UKIP do.
Labour is the party of the working man. But I agree that Ukip understand better than the Tories, that is clear.
Ozzy banging on about a recovery when wages aren't keeping up with prices. Whatever happened to putting the pound back in working peoples' pockets?
Go and ask WWC what they think of Labour.
They used to be the party of the working man but that ended a long time ago and will never come back.
I barely know anyone who isn't WWC and no one I know would vote Labour
I know loads of (WWC*) people who would vote Labour, probably because loads of WWC people vote Labour. And a few who I'd put down as UKIP, now you come to mention it.
But very, very few who would vote Tory. In fact, there's quite some loathing for the Tories. I think we can all agree that the Tories have abandoned the normal folk of this country. And to think they used to be the Party of the working person.
*I hate that, actually. That "WWC" shorthand thing. I don't know what it is about it. Demeaning and horrible and has slightly nasty undertones somehow.
Small disclaimer, almost all the people I know were born working class, some now run small businesses
I genuinely don't think I knock about with anyone who would vote labour. I am the only one out of all my friends/girlfriends that ever has and I won't again in all likelihood
Parents have always voted Labour, but Dad now Ukip I think, and mater can't have EdM !
Heh. No point trading anecdotes, that way lies madness. Fortunately, we have polling data.
Whilst I remember, could you donate my winnings on Lib Dems getting more votes than UKIP in 2015 to Shelter please? Ta.
England another wicket down I see. Hmph. Need to bat out today, or the series is gone. Ah well.
Carberry looks in good nick though *
*realise I have just committed a cardinal sin. Also why did the Aussie's review KP? - never out in a million years and they have just wasted a review.
In other words, ScottP doesn't agree with your world view of Scottish politics. Really sad and lazy to then try to dress up that disagreement with a fellow Scot as a claim that they don't know the square root of feck all about Scottish politics.
Yup, at last the Tories are taking the lead in the independence debate.
Tories like this guy...
Today, Jim Sillars, the former Deputy Leader of the SNP, will address a Socialist Voice Conference in Edinburgh where he is expected to focus on Mr Darling’s time as Chancellor
Positive campaign all the way to inevitable defeat
You're positing Sillars as representative of the SNP and/or the Yes campaign?
Light bulb moment, I've suddenly realised you really do know the square root of feck all about Scottish politics.
'For what it's worth, we are probably supporting other families. But live and let live.'
'How much do you think my family pays in tax compared to what we take in benefits and services?'
Hopefully your in the minority of a net contributors,if you can't take a hit on your marginal tax rate / child benefit,who can? Plus you have the advantage of living in London,least affected by the recession with lots of well paid jobs available.
Bobajob spends his time whining about his marginal tax rate,lives in London where there are lots of well paid jobs,but maybe he'll get some childcare help if Labour wins in 2015 ,which of course will be wiped out when mortgage interest rates increase.
But don't let facts get in the way of PB Kinnocks.
Mr Zim: Please do not confuse the newbie Wee-Timmy-bots. They think that they are important: They should not be responded to.
Bobajob spends his time whining about his marginal tax rate,lives in London where there are lots of well paid jobs,but maybe he'll get some childcare help if Labour wins in 2015 ,which of course will be wiped out when mortgage interest rates increase.
But don't let facts get in the way of PB Kinnocks.
Mr Zim: Please do not confuse the newbie Wee-Timmy-bots. They think that they are important: They should not be responded to.
Come on, are you insane, trying to be "funny", or a long-standing in-joke? I don't get it.
Another wicket down. Ashes have gone I think. Pah.
'For what it's worth, we are probably supporting other families. But live and let live.'
'How much do you think my family pays in tax compared to what we take in benefits and services?'
Hopefully your in the minority of a net contributors,if you can't take a hit on your marginal tax rate / child benefit,who can? Plus you have the advantage of living in London,least affected by the recession with lots of well paid jobs available.
So in your first post you accuse me of living off other taxpayers, then the opposite.
Me and Bobajob go back years on here. I have taken the time to read his posts, absorb his [mistaken] opinions and to try to understand his circumstances. I have also won a bet against Wee-Timmy [it was on economics so a freebie] and have shown Marque Senile to be exactly that.
Can the newbs just feck-off-and-over my posts? Unless Auntie Hortence is spawning some daemons I will only read, but not respond, to their childish pictograms. To earn a direct response you have to earn some respect.
'So in your first post you accuse me of living off other taxpayers, then the opposite'
I have no way of knowing how much tax you do or don't pay,however,with your never ending complaints about your marginal tax rate/child care issue, you certainly give the impression that you would like other taxpayers to do the heavy lifting.
Interesting discussion on the thread. A factor that hasn't been mentioned is that the proportion of people who describe themselves as working-class has been in steady decline for a long time, as has the number who are in fact employed in manual labour. We are increasingly a country where most people think of themselves as middle-class. That gives all parties a temptation to focus on middle-class policies.
But it's not as clear-cut as that. Very few middle-class people are as dismissive of working-class people as the Brittan anecdote downthread, and very few working-class people wouldn't be pleased to hear that a large company they worked for was doing very well and thus might be able to increase pay. To a certain extent, the feeling that we're all in this together does apply, and polls routinely show support for benefits for people who are ill or very poor. However, there is a sense of alienation which you come across right acoss the class spectrum - the "Eastern wages, Western prices and Monaco taxes" impression, coupled with a sense that many politicians think this the normal way of the world.
The Conservative mistake, and the reason they are disliked as a party, was allowing themselves to become associated with that model, partly by sheer appearance - it is very easy to imagine Osborne as being a banker. Tony Blair, eager to shed the image of class war, came close to the same mistake. The reason Miliband easily outscores Cameron on "understands people like me" is that although people don't necessarily think he's fully understood them, he doesn't seem to be actively involved in the model they dislike, and he does raise issues that they worry about, such as the cost of living.
Me and Bobajob go back years on here. I have taken the time to read his posts, absorb his [mistaken] opinions and to try to understand his circumstances. I have also won a bet against Wee-Timmy [it was on economics so a freebie] and have shown Marque Senile to be exactly that.
Can the newbs just feck-off-and-over my posts? Unless Auntie Hortence is spawning some daemons I will only read, but not respond, to their childish pictograms. To earn a direct response you have to earn some respect.
:think-about-it:
But what's with all the excessive punctuation and weird mangling? Is it "funny"? An in-joke? "Enigmatic"? Just your online "style"?
Or do you actually talk to your :'''' wife like/ this in when WHO (think about it)£ is in the pub?
Number 42 has put downgraded 617 to DeHaviland Chipmunk status: This should not effect the current radar scanning or request-response cycles thereof (in-so-far as standard, normalised communications). That is all....
Number 42 has put downgraded 617 to DeHaviland Chipmunk status: This should not effect the current radar scanning or request-response cycles thereof (in-so-far as standard, normalised communications). That is all....
:bing-bong-bang:
Fair enough, I'm sure I'm not the first and won't be last to try and get you to make any kind of meaningful sense, I'll learn to ignore.
7 tests so far - every test "won" by team batting first who have dominated big time.
(Aus would have won Old Trafford if not rained on final day. Ditto The Oval - I know England nearly won at the end but that's only because Aus had to set small target because so much time lost. If no rain Aus would have set massive target and likely won).
AnotherRichard The Tories should have called for some of the failing UK banks to go under like Lehmans did and like US Republican Congressmen did when they voted down the bailout in 2008 when small businesses don't get one
@NickP, have you looked at Ed Miliband's personal polling, its dire for a man who wants to be the next PM? The 'Labour party' as the only main opposition right now have a pretty poor lead considering their claims of the damage this Coalition Government has inflicted on the country trying to get us out of the economic mess that the last Labour Government left us in. To me it suggests a party who is collecting and holding a vagabond bunch of disaffected supporters who are feeling hard done by the hard consequences of this economic tsunami wrought by a Government you were ultra loyal player within the Westminster bubble. I wouldn't expect a former extremely loyal Labour MP to suddenly change his spots and admit to the mistakes of the last Labour Government he supported, although I find it telling that you are now promising to be more of a rebel on some pet issues if you are re-elected!
You supported your Government on issues like Iraq etc, the current Coalition backbenchers in marginal seats have to support their Government when it comes to making really tough decisions on issues like the economy or the welfare to help get us out of the hole that your Government left us in. Thankfully we have a PM, Chancellor and even a Deputy PM who have a far more healthy relationship than that of Blair and Brown. The country and the economy is all the better for this.
The next GE is going to be fought on issues such as the economy, welfare, pensions and immigration instead of the New Labour issues of more spending on the NHS and Education. And because your Government totally screwed the pensions of so many in the private sector, they are currently not feeling too kindly to the campaigns of public sector workers who want to protect their gold plated guaranteed pensions despite the current economic climate for all of us. Your party has created a divide both in Government and in Opposition, and issues like the bedroom tax have failed to resonate with the wider population like the council tax did as a result. I cannot get my head around the idea that I should pay into a tax system so someone else can afford to live in a subsidised house with spare rooms when all my adult life I rented or bought and moved to homes with the amount of bedrooms I could afford to pay for in an area of my choice.
And at the end of day, I still maintain that its job security and the aspirational prospect of better wages that will be the key to increasing public confidence in a growing economy and peoples personal finances. And right now, the current Government are on course to deliver this while the current Opposition are on course to wreck it all over again by resorting to their previous antics of politics over sound economics. You would have impressed me far more if your new rebellious nature had led to even the most subtle questioning of your party's current phobia about tackling the tough economic decisions ahead of us.
This is a great song, and it really sums up the increasingly dysfunctional Blair/Brown years of New Labour. And considering the demise of this once extremely talented band, its really is an apt tribute to the Labour party as it is now after the New Labour years. Youtube - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqM11bt9QvI
Comments
Again with the apology for saying what some don't want to hear, but we are into naked emperor territory here.
We are indeed.
How did the Party of shopkeepers become the Party of Big Business?
The Party of individual endevour become the Party of Hedge Funds and unearned wealth?
The One Nation Party become the divisive Party, demonising the poor rather than giving them a leg up?
The Party of conservatism undermining cherished British institutions like the NHS?
The Tories have badly, horribly lost their way, and they need people within their own ranks to tell them the truth.
As I've said before, the Tories desperately need their own versions of Kinnock, Smith and Blair before they can win again. Not just cosmetic changes, but slapping the entire party in the face, telling it to grow up, and drag it kicking and screaming into the modern world.
Labour, the party of Welfare.
Labour, the party of banksters (how many did they knight?)
Labour, the party of Big Energy
Labour, the party of unlimited immigration "to make the whites angry"
Where did it all go wrong?
Long may this independence of mind last.
As I said earlier, one party will lose out most because of it.
Even without Mandela's death and the storm surges/flooding relatively few people would've really taken in the Autumn Statement (although having it in December makes the name sound dubious). I'm unsurprised that the People Like Me and The Poor columns have practically identical scores.
I imagine if you'd asked the question before Osborne spoke and Balls replied the numbers would be similar.
The government policy which helped me was HtB. It also forced me to buy before I was ready because house prices in W6 started to surge after that policy was introduced. I would have bought one anyway. The improving economy has obviously helped, but I work in an industry that is dependent on a booming economy as it is luxury goods. We can only sell gaming related goods and services in a decent economy. However, as a company SCEE has been recovering anyway from mismanagement and other internal issues, those were not economy dependent and based on our own restructuring and new management drive. Personally I have seen pay rises of around 3-5% a year for the last three years and before that a 5% cut. Like many I had to take a pay cut to save my job. The difference is that unlike others, I have had big pay rises since then and I have been promoted which came with a massive increase in my pay grade.
Whatever the Labour party may or may not do is irrelevant. They are the NOTA choice along with UKIP. They will benefit disproportionately from boundaries being in their favour and from differential turnout. In addition Tory voters have proved over and over again that they don't "get" FPTP so expect a lot of Lab/Lib gains in marginal seats where UKIP appeal to core Tory voters. Labour are going to win the most seats in the HoC and benefit from any improvement that the current government have made to underlying economy. That much is clear.
By siding with big business over the working person (which is in effect what they have done over energy prices) they have told voters "we don't care about you, our mates in big business come first". Ed Balls and Ed Miliband will drive that point home over and over again. By allowing corporate profits to rise and director pay to rise at record pace while keeping minimum wage rises below inflation they are telling people "we don't care about you, our mates in big business come first". Ed Balls and Ed Miliband will drive that point home over and over again. In every single argument where it is big or small business vs "the people" the Tories are on the side of business. That may make sense in a normal economy in order to generate jobs, but businesses are not investing, they are not increasing pay and they are hoarding cash. The Tory party must act, and act fast in order to unlock that cash either by incentivising investment or by raising the minimum wage. However, it is too late in the day to give businesses more tax breaks and hope they create jobs, there are 17 months left until the election, and an above inflation rise in the minimum wage to take money off company balance sheets and put it into the hands of the working poor is the policy the government need to look at. It solves all of their problems.
Is it essentially allowing people to work relatively few hours, for low wages (below minimum if they want), whilst still being able to claim all benefits and / or being exempt from income tax?
If so, what a brilliant (and Tory!) idea.
THE SUN: Lord help us! #tomorrowspaperstoday #bbcpapers pic.twitter.com/oeM7s3j2c1
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-25049641
Just as well there are no homeless people nearby.
Yup, at last the Tories are taking the lead in the independence debate.
'According to the paper, one senior Tory figure said: “The man has never run a campaign. He is comatose most of the time.”
A Downing Street source was also quoted as describing Mr Darling as a “dreary figurehead” for such an important campaign.'
Still Zuma has his own swivel eyed loons to deal with. Julia's Malema may well be in the next parliament, courtesy of the disillusionment of South Africans with "the Black Boers" of the ANC.
http://mg.co.za/article/2013-11-19-get-ready-for-a-parliament-featuring-julius-malema
Sack the muppets!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E66wPCoE_4o
Lay, lay, lay...!
A much more hopeful song (and no demi-gosh):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuaVSoSKW2Q
And a true man-of-the-people:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLg-8Jxi5aE
According to respondents the answer is Labour people they dont like and some Labour policies they don't like.
Yes, I'm sure that's the reason. Nothing whatsoever to do with the Conservative Party that the Conservative Party doesn't connect with the people the Conservative Party needs to vote for them, no its all because Ed is crap.
It's called reality and it was brought on by the reckless policies of the last Government, as confirmed by Liam Byrne.
Perhaps you will take this opportunity to reflect on what happens when you repeatedly violate the site rules.
You're positing Sillars as representative of the SNP and/or the Yes campaign?
Light bulb moment, I've suddenly realised you really do know the square root of feck all about Scottish politics.
Repeated uses of words like fuck, sees you set set off the spam trap, and sees your posting privileges revoked.
The only party that represents the WWC is UKIP
-221.99 DE / +34.20 The Field Winner with Betfair
-51 DE/ +3.80 Winner w/o Joey Essex
I shall refrain though.
http://youtu.be/w1cKfqhTIYM
But they need to work out how they can sell themselves to modern Britain too, or they will never win again. A thread on PB about it would be fascinating for the responses, and the outstanding Tory poster MaxPB has written the bones of one below.
Liz Truss that Max mentioned, she intrigues me.
'But they need to work out how they can sell themselves to modern Britain too,'
Labour are lucky in that they never,ever, get to clean their own $hite up.
What are Cameron and Osborne interested in - 'world cities' or medium sized towns in middle England.
Places which sound like a Champions League final - Munich v Milan - or places which sound like a Northern Premier League match - Stalybridge v Stocksbridge.
We know the answer but its Stalybridge and Stocksbridge where the Conservatives need to gain votes.
The Cameroons have no experience with the 'working man', no interest in and no empathy towards.
In some cases it might be worse and a feeling of personal hostility.
Which I will expound on in another post.
Some frankly bonkers posts in a classic Friday night thread that will have the PB Lefties reaching for another beer or three as they contemplate the deranged ramblings of their opponents.
If this morning's bonkers-fest in which some compared an avowed racist with Mandela and wondered aloud whether certain historical figures were in Hollywood pictures weren't enough, we now enjoy the spectacle of some of our dimmer colleagues on the Right defending the ludicrous George Osborne.
Shape up. Wise up.
You need people who understand the working man. Rob Halfon. Doug Carswell. A decent day's pay for a decent day's work.
It's not so hard. But there are none as blind as those who cannot see.
Cheers!
If that is the answer then the question must be: * Currently pushing-up London housing and childcare costs one must add!
UKIP understand bitter racists and bewildered Daily Mail readers.
They are a party of the rich, for the rich, like the Tories only worse.
Ozzy banging on about a recovery when wages aren't keeping up with prices. Whatever happened to putting the pound back in working peoples' pockets?
They used to be the party of the working man but that ended a long time ago and will never come back.
Is this insane and desperately unfunny "Fluffy Thoughts" poster an ongoing PB in-joke or something?
'Labour is the party of the working man'
You really believe that after 13 years of Blair & Brown?
Just another working man who wants to support his family. Guilty as charged.
'Just another working man who wants to support his family. Guilty as charged.'
Translation:
Just another man who wants other taxpayers to support his family.
Though I'm likely to vote UKIP in 2015.
Not because I'm impressed by UKIP but because they're not LibLabCon big government, big business big culture establishment.
There's a few Conservative MPs I would still vote for - David Davis, Richard Shepherd, Douglas Carswell for instance - but these people are regarded as free thinking rebels.
** I got your message via RCS btw ***
PB Hodges in their prime...carry on carrying on, it is working wonders:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/96/UK_opinion_polling_2010-2015.png
But very, very few who would vote Tory. In fact, there's quite some loathing for the Tories. I think we can all agree that the Tories have abandoned the normal folk of this country. And to think they used to be the Party of the working person.
*I hate that, actually. That "WWC" shorthand thing. I don't know what it is about it. Demeaning and horrible and has slightly nasty undertones somehow.
The IFS said George Osborne had committed to £7bn of spending which had not been accounted for beyond 2015/16.
The thinktank's director, Paul Johnson, said there was a "fixed envelope" of spending which the Government "keep trying to stuff more into".
Labour also welcomed the IFS' confirmation of their claim that households have seen an average income drop of £1600 since 2010.
Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury Chris Leslie claimed the analysis showed the Autumn Statement had "failed millions of ordinary people".
The analysis follows a poll which shows the public remains split about the impact of the Government’s economic policies, despite improving economic data.
Ipsos MORI found that 40% of people believe the Government’s policies will improve the state of the economy, compared to 38% who think they will harm the recovery.
Earlier today Mr Osborne acknowledged that savers were being hit as a result of the sustained low interest rates.
"Of course, one of the problems with low interest rates is for savers, and that's one of the paradoxes of recovery and one of the paradoxes of an economic calamity like the one that befell Britain in 2008-09, which is you need to have low interest rates to help the economy recover and the people who pay the price for that are the people who 'have done the right thing and saved'," he told the Today programme.
"What I want to do is make sure that we have that balanced economy, that we're able to support savers."
The Ipsos MORI survey also endorsed Ed Balls’ criticism that the Chancellor was “in denial” about the living standards struggles facing millions of households. Four in ten people agree with Mr Balls, compared to 27% disagreeing."
Keep looking from inside the bubble and keep telling the vast majority outside how good it really is.
I genuinely don't think I knock about with anyone who would vote labour. I am the only one out of all my friends/girlfriends that ever has and I won't again in all likelihood
Parents have always voted Labour, but Dad now Ukip I think, and mater can't have EdM !
Bobajob spends his time whining about his marginal tax rate,lives in London where there are lots of well paid jobs,but maybe he'll get some childcare help if Labour wins in 2015 ,which of course will be wiped out when mortgage interest rates increase.
But don't let facts get in the way of PB Kinnocks.
There has always been an element in what I'll term the business overclass of opposition, dislike even hatred towards the 'workers'. **
The more the workers earn the less there is for the 'bosses', the business overclass.
Now with globalisation the physical and psychological separation between the businiess overclass and both the workers and consumers has grown.
IIRC it was Mr Jones who described it as 'pay Eastern wages, sell at Western prices, pay tax at Monaco rates'.
The problem the Conservatives have is that they have always been associated with capitalism, businessmen etc.
In previous generations this meant someone local and someone successful. Now its associated with nebulous globalised entities, profiteering, greedy and uncontrolled. But always willing to demand a bailout after they feck up.
And so the continual 'trade diplomacy', the likes of which Cameron and Osborne have been in China on, looks like a government acting as the pimp of globalised big business.
** An amusing anecdote I heard of this involoved Samuel Brittan, the FT columnist and brother of Leon Brittan.
He was once driving in his Rolls-Royce with some equally grand members of the commentariat - it may have been to a Conservative conference in Blackpool. While Brittan was expounding his views the car breaks down. Nobody knows how to fix it but fortnately a white van man stops and offers help. After a few minutes the car is fixed and they're driving again. Samuel Brittan restarts the conversation "As I was saying the working class are completely without merit" ;-)
For what it's worth my family are massive net contributors but the idiots on think others are supporting me. There comes a time when you know it's best to stop trying to explain it to them.
Whilst I remember, could you donate my winnings on Lib Dems getting more votes than UKIP in 2015 to Shelter please? Ta.
England another wicket down I see. Hmph. Need to bat out today, or the series is gone. Ah well.
*realise I have just committed a cardinal sin. Also why did the Aussie's review KP? - never out in a million years and they have just wasted a review.
Light bulb moment, I've suddenly realised you really do know the square root of feck all about Scottish politics.
'For what it's worth, we are probably supporting other families. But live and let live.'
'How much do you think my family pays in tax compared to what we take in benefits and services?'
Hopefully your in the minority of a net contributors,if you can't take a hit on your marginal tax rate / child benefit,who can?
Plus you have the advantage of living in London,least affected by the recession with lots of well paid jobs available.
Another wicket down. Ashes have gone I think. Pah.
Me and Bobajob go back years on here. I have taken the time to read his posts, absorb his [mistaken] opinions and to try to understand his circumstances. I have also won a bet against Wee-Timmy [it was on economics so a freebie] and have shown Marque Senile to be exactly that.
Can the newbs just feck-off-and-over my posts? Unless Auntie Hortence is spawning some daemons I will only read, but not respond, to their childish pictograms. To earn a direct response you have to earn some respect.
:think-about-it:
'So in your first post you accuse me of living off other taxpayers, then the opposite'
I have no way of knowing how much tax you do or don't pay,however,with your never ending complaints about your marginal tax rate/child care issue, you certainly give the impression that you would like other taxpayers to do the heavy lifting.
But it's not as clear-cut as that. Very few middle-class people are as dismissive of working-class people as the Brittan anecdote downthread, and very few working-class people wouldn't be pleased to hear that a large company they worked for was doing very well and thus might be able to increase pay. To a certain extent, the feeling that we're all in this together does apply, and polls routinely show support for benefits for people who are ill or very poor. However, there is a sense of alienation which you come across right acoss the class spectrum - the "Eastern wages, Western prices and Monaco taxes" impression, coupled with a sense that many politicians think this the normal way of the world.
The Conservative mistake, and the reason they are disliked as a party, was allowing themselves to become associated with that model, partly by sheer appearance - it is very easy to imagine Osborne as being a banker. Tony Blair, eager to shed the image of class war, came close to the same mistake. The reason Miliband easily outscores Cameron on "understands people like me" is that although people don't necessarily think he's fully understood them, he doesn't seem to be actively involved in the model they dislike, and he does raise issues that they worry about, such as the cost of living.
Or do you actually talk to your :'''' wife like/ this in when WHO (think about it)£ is in the pub?
' and he does raise issues that they worry about, such as the cost of living.'
With respect, what other issues has he got left after u-turning on cuts, welfare,unemployment and was shown to be wrong on the economy?
WI traded at 480-1 in that match and they... could win it from here.
Number 42 has put downgraded 617 to DeHaviland Chipmunk status: This should not effect the current radar scanning or request-response cycles thereof (in-so-far as standard, normalised communications). That is all....
:bing-bong-bang:
Hugh Bayley, York MP & my dear @BristolUni contemporary, had the SU bar re-named in #Mandela 's honour.. in the 70s."
twitter.com/alstewitn/status/408758764343271424
Wtf.
Unless time is tight, if you lead by 250 it's surely better to score a quick 200+ and set big target.
It's far, far easier batting in 3rd innings with a big lead (and you can score quickly as batting freely) than chasing 150 in the 4th innings.
Of course NZ had a lead of 400 so that was a bit different!
7 tests so far - every test "won" by team batting first who have dominated big time.
(Aus would have won Old Trafford if not rained on final day. Ditto The Oval - I know England nearly won at the end but that's only because Aus had to set small target because so much time lost. If no rain Aus would have set massive target and likely won).
You supported your Government on issues like Iraq etc, the current Coalition backbenchers in marginal seats have to support their Government when it comes to making really tough decisions on issues like the economy or the welfare to help get us out of the hole that your Government left us in. Thankfully we have a PM, Chancellor and even a Deputy PM who have a far more healthy relationship than that of Blair and Brown. The country and the economy is all the better for this.
The next GE is going to be fought on issues such as the economy, welfare, pensions and immigration instead of the New Labour issues of more spending on the NHS and Education. And because your Government totally screwed the pensions of so many in the private sector, they are currently not feeling too kindly to the campaigns of public sector workers who want to protect their gold plated guaranteed pensions despite the current economic climate for all of us. Your party has created a divide both in Government and in Opposition, and issues like the bedroom tax have failed to resonate with the wider population like the council tax did as a result. I cannot get my head around the idea that I should pay into a tax system so someone else can afford to live in a subsidised house with spare rooms when all my adult life I rented or bought and moved to homes with the amount of bedrooms I could afford to pay for in an area of my choice.
And at the end of day, I still maintain that its job security and the aspirational prospect of better wages that will be the key to increasing public confidence in a growing economy and peoples personal finances. And right now, the current Government are on course to deliver this while the current Opposition are on course to wreck it all over again by resorting to their previous antics of politics over sound economics. You would have impressed me far more if your new rebellious nature had led to even the most subtle questioning of your party's current phobia about tackling the tough economic decisions ahead of us.
This is a great song, and it really sums up the increasingly dysfunctional Blair/Brown years of New Labour. And considering the demise of this once extremely talented band, its really is an apt tribute to the Labour party as it is now after the New Labour years. Youtube - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqM11bt9QvI
Amazingly, that is the first leg before of the series.
The 14-1 on the Aus 5-0 is looking seriously good value now though...
Brent Central
Kingswood
Dorset North
Torbay