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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » What we can learn from Nelson Mandela

The passing of Nelson Mandela gives cause to reflect on his life, struggles and achievements. His gigantic life is something so many have drawn from, particularly following his release from imprisonment 23 years ago. It’s the character of the man is what gave him his worldwide authority.

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[Deleted User]

A nice sentiment Henry and I fully agree with you. Our politicians are bickering minnows in comparison.

Richard_Tyndall

Well said Henry.

SimonStClare

Henry G Manson – well said.

Pulpstar

SeanT said:

This is the death of Diana for lefties with narcissistic personality disorder, i.e. all of them.

Going to go for a blog post on it ?

Richard_Tyndall

Excuse me going OT to answer Patrick from previous thread.

"It would be intersting to see a split of the prospective Scottish / English reserves in the N.Sea. The northern sector (Scotland) is more oil and more in decline vs central/southern sector (England) which is more gas."

It would depend on which line was used. Under the main Convention governing such things it should be the median line. This would deliver a small but significant portion of the northern North Sea oil fields to England as it would extend the border out north east across the North Sea. This is what has been used for the rest of the European countries bordering the sea.

I suspect Scotland would rather use what is known as the 'legal line' which follows the line of latitude out from the border. This would place all of the Oil fields in Scottish waters.

JosiasJessop

I'm slightly amused that Winnie appears to have been airbrushed out of today's commentary. I wonder why?

:innocent face:

R0berts

Ah that's better. Good stuff Henry. Last thread wasn't PBs finest hour.

dr_spyn

Winnie Mandela's Mandela United did their best to tarnish the brand.

[Deleted User]

Richard Tyndall

The line selected will be a huge bone of contention and a cause of major major arguments then if the Jocks vote YES!

Plato

Earlier today there were loads of blog articles about Mandela and all had comments switched off - so frustrated DT readers hijacked Toby Young's instead.

I really didn't understand why they weren't allowing contributions.

SeanT said:

Pulpstar said:

SeanT said:

This is the death of Diana for lefties with narcissistic personality disorder, i.e. all of them.

Going to go for a blog post on it ?

*tempted*

Imagine the clicks!

Oooh.

To be sensible, I don't remember anything like this kind of pb bleating and mourning when Franco died, or when Pinochet left us. A bit of balance would be good.

taffys

Mandela's greatest achievement in my book was to prevent a black majority Jihad against whites when that majority finally won power.

Given what had happened before, that is some achievement.

Indeed, you could argue he should be more of a hero for white South Africa than for Black South Africa, given where we are now.

I imagine most whites live as they always have, in wealthy and exclusive enclaves, but now without the vilification of the international community.

Plato

Isabel Hardman @IsabelHardman

Ha. @afneil tells Leslie he's had 3 Lab briefings against Balls. 'Well, er [gulp] it's always off the record, isn't it?' says poor Leslie.

Theuniondivvie

Patrick said:

Richard Tyndall

The line selected will be a huge bone of contention and a cause of major major arguments then if the Jocks vote YES!

Only if you think the difference between 90 & 95% is HUGE.

'"You might say we should use that line. The interesting thing is, from the economic point of view, it does not make much difference because there are just a handful of fields, and not very important ones now, between the median line and the line north of Berwick. Although lawyers could have a long debate about it, in terms of economics, it does not make all that much difference."
If Scotland were to get a "geographical share" based on the median line it would mean about 90% of the UK's oil resources would be under Scottish jurisdiction.
According to research by Prof Kemp, in 2010 the Scottish share of total oil production in the UKCS was more than 95% while for gas it was 58%. The Scottish share of total hydrocarbon production (including NGLs) was 80%. The Scottish tax share exceeded 90%. This reflects the much higher value of oil compared to gas.'

http://tinyurl.com/qa7ajcx

david_herdson

R0berts said:

Ah that's better. Good stuff Henry. Last thread wasn't PBs finest hour.

I refer you to the quote in Henry's thread:

“I like friends who have independent minds because they tend to make you see problems from all angles."

If all you want to do is have your preconceptions reinforced, what is the point?

FWIW, the essence of all the quotes forms a part of great leadership and can, I think, be applied to all the men I namechecked in the previous article.

AlastairMeeks

I very much admired Nelson Mandela. I have a feeling that he would have been half-embarrassed and half-appalled at his secular beatification.

Britain has not had the immense good fortune to have had a Nelson Mandela. Britain has had the immense good fortune not to have needed one.

richardDodd

FPT..Quote of the day on Order-Order..."I learnt courage from Nelson Mandela".. G Brown

RobD

Theuniondivvie said:

Patrick said:

Richard Tyndall

The line selected will be a huge bone of contention and a cause of major major arguments then if the Jocks vote YES!

Only if you think the difference between 90 & 95% is HUGE.

'"You might say we should use that line. The interesting thing is, from the economic point of view, it does not make much difference because there are just a handful of fields, and not very important ones now, between the median line and the line north of Berwick. Although lawyers could have a long debate about it, in terms of economics, it does not make all that much difference."
If Scotland were to get a "geographical share" based on the median line it would mean about 90% of the UK's oil resources would be under Scottish jurisdiction.
According to research by Prof Kemp, in 2010 the Scottish share of total oil production in the UKCS was more than 95% while for gas it was 58%. The Scottish share of total hydrocarbon production (including NGLs) was 80%. The Scottish tax share exceeded 90%. This reflects the much higher value of oil compared to gas.'

http://tinyurl.com/qa7ajcx

For rUK the difference between 5% and 10% is significant ;-)

richardDodd

My SA friends tell me that the only thing that has changed is the colour of the skins of the fat cats... from White to Black..still the same shit lives for the ones in the townships..

taffys

still the same shit lives for the ones in the townships..

Except for the HIV, which exploded under Mandela's leadership...

Theuniondivvie

RobD said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Patrick said:

Richard Tyndall

The line selected will be a huge bone of contention and a cause of major major arguments then if the Jocks vote YES!

Only if you think the difference between 90 & 95% is HUGE.

'"You might say we should use that line. The interesting thing is, from the economic point of view, it does not make much difference because there are just a handful of fields, and not very important ones now, between the median line and the line north of Berwick. Although lawyers could have a long debate about it, in terms of economics, it does not make all that much difference."
If Scotland were to get a "geographical share" based on the median line it would mean about 90% of the UK's oil resources would be under Scottish jurisdiction.
According to research by Prof Kemp, in 2010 the Scottish share of total oil production in the UKCS was more than 95% while for gas it was 58%. The Scottish share of total hydrocarbon production (including NGLs) was 80%. The Scottish tax share exceeded 90%. This reflects the much higher value of oil compared to gas.'

http://tinyurl.com/qa7ajcx

For rUK the difference between 5% and 10% is significant ;-)

Significant but not huge, as the cabinet minister said to the rent boy.

richardDodd

TUD... That was the Chairman of the Co-op..

david_herdson

antifrank said:

I very much admired Nelson Mandela. I have a feeling that he would have been half-embarrassed and half-appalled at his secular beatification.

Britain has not had the immense good fortune to have had a Nelson Mandela. Britain has had the immense good fortune not to have needed one.

Hmm.

In War: Resolution. In Defeat: Defiance. In Victory: Magnanimity. In Peace: Goodwill

SimonStClare

taffys said:

still the same shit lives for the ones in the townships..

Except for the HIV, which exploded under Mandela's leadership...

Are you not confusing the President of the Republic of South Africa, with the President of the ANC ?

Mick_Pork

tim said:

david_herdson said:

R0berts said:

Ah that's better. Good stuff Henry. Last thread wasn't PBs finest hour.

I refer you to the quote in Henry's thread:

“I like friends who have independent minds because they tend to make you see problems from all angles."

If all you want to do is have your preconceptions reinforced, what is the point?

FWIW, the essence of all the quotes forms a part of great leadership and can, I think, be applied to all the men I namechecked in the previous article.

Well a piece praising a man who spent twenty years legislating for the segregation of black people as a "gift to humanity" certainly challenged all known preconceptions.

A truly amazing surprise that the PB Burleys are so upset at the worldwide response caused by the death of Mandela.

What could possibly be behind it?

:innocent face::

david_herdson

tim said:

david_herdson said:

R0berts said:

Ah that's better. Good stuff Henry. Last thread wasn't PBs finest hour.

I refer you to the quote in Henry's thread:

“I like friends who have independent minds because they tend to make you see problems from all angles."

If all you want to do is have your preconceptions reinforced, what is the point?

FWIW, the essence of all the quotes forms a part of great leadership and can, I think, be applied to all the men I namechecked in the previous article.

Well a piece praising a man who spent twenty years legislating for the segregation of black people as a "gift to humanity" certainly challenged all known preconceptions.

If you don't like it here, go somewhere else. Or better, get a life: have a girlfriend, or a boyfriend; go to the theatre; walk the wild moorlands; get a job; milk the cows. Whatever. Just do something productive.

richardDodd

Who is upset at the response to the death of Mandela ?..

TheWatcher

Mick_Pork said:

tim said:

david_herdson said:

R0berts said:

Ah that's better. Good stuff Henry. Last thread wasn't PBs finest hour.

I refer you to the quote in Henry's thread:

“I like friends who have independent minds because they tend to make you see problems from all angles."

If all you want to do is have your preconceptions reinforced, what is the point?

FWIW, the essence of all the quotes forms a part of great leadership and can, I think, be applied to all the men I namechecked in the previous article.

Well a piece praising a man who spent twenty years legislating for the segregation of black people as a "gift to humanity" certainly challenged all known preconceptions.

A truly amazing surprise that the PB Burleys are so upset at the worldwide response caused by the death of Mandela.

What could possibly be behind it?

:innocent face::

Will there be such an outpouring of grief when Wee Eck makes his final journey to the great curry house in the sky?

stodge

Afternoon all

Let's remember Sean is trying to be a little bit provocative here. No doubt when he gets his invitation to the Primrose Hill Residents' Association Nelson Mandela Memorial street party, he'll be the first to accept.

My view - we are all flawed. It's possible to pick holes in the reputation of saints, to find a kind word to say about the greatest sinner or even to find a duff sentence in a Tom Knox.

I don't ascribe greatness to leaders - those who have control of the reins of power have an inherent advantage. Whether that power is gained through the ballot box or otherwise, whether that power is used for good or ill, the ability of a leader to drive forward a personal or political agenda is hugely aided by the apparatus of control of the modern state. The 20th Century is replete with examples of those who, once in power, used the power of the state to drive forward evolutionary or revolutionary change.

So much harder to instigate change when you are the one without the power and you face those who are hostile - so much more tempting to meet violence with violence. To come to eschew that violence and to continue, in the face of adversity, hostility and oppression, to promote the concept of peaceful change is for me the mark of greatness.

state_go_away

I don't dislike Mandela and I recognise his significance in the 20th century and that's its obviously very newsworthy. I do dislike a lot of the faux grief and faux worship that is coming out of twitter and more mainstream media.
Its gets a bit dumbed down to be honest and would prefer a respectful rounded consideration of his life and legacy (which can include some dubious bits ) to read about.

PBModerator

The term PB Burley is no longer acceptable.

I would also remind posters of Mike Smithson's instruction, that you are not allowed to call posters, individually or as a group, racist, directly or indirectly.

Cyclefree

FPT (but relevant to this one):-

ThomasNashe said:
"On topic. To my mind, one of the Titans of the c.20 is Vaclav Havel. He really played a key role in the peaceful transition away from Communism."

Hear, hear! His belief that one should live "as if" one were a free man is very inspiring.

It seems to me that in Western European we are rather ignorant about the significant intellectual currents which developed in Eastern Europe under Communism and enabled people to survive. Part of that was because too many of our own intellectuals were too busy either praising Communism or tiring a blind eye to or otherwise excusing its horrors. It's one of the West's failings.

And part was simply us turning our back on part of our own shared history and culture and civilization. It's one reason why I dislike the focus on Bulgarians and Romanians as if they were some sort of horde of uncivilized barbarians. There are plenty of groups here who better fit that description and without whom we might be better off but fellow Europeans are not such people.

taffys

''Are you not confusing the President of the Republic of South Africa, with the President of the ANC ? ''

Don't think so. Mandela became president of the South African Republic in 1994 and I think it was in the mid to late 90s that the HIV epidemic really took hold.

I've just rooted out a stat that shows HIV under pregnant South African women soared from 0.8% from 1990 to 30.0% in 2000. (rom about.com).

dr_spyn

Will the BBC use this quote from Nelson Mandela :
‘Privatization is the fundamental policy of our government. Call me a Thatcherite, if you will.’

Mick_Pork

tim said:

david_herdson said:

tim said:

david_herdson said:

R0berts said:

Ah that's better. Good stuff Henry. Last thread wasn't PBs finest hour.

I refer you to the quote in Henry's thread:

“I like friends who have independent minds because they tend to make you see problems from all angles."

If all you want to do is have your preconceptions reinforced, what is the point?

FWIW, the essence of all the quotes forms a part of great leadership and can, I think, be applied to all the men I namechecked in the previous article.

Well a piece praising a man who spent twenty years legislating for the segregation of black people as a "gift to humanity" certainly challenged all known preconceptions.

If you don't like it here, go somewhere else. Or better, get a life: have a girlfriend, or a boyfriend; go to the theatre; walk the wild moorlands; get a job; milk the cows. Whatever. Just do something productive.

david_herdson said:

tim said:

david_herdson said:

R0berts said:

Ah that's better. Good stuff Henry. Last thread wasn't PBs finest hour.

I refer you to the quote in Henry's thread:

“I like friends who have independent minds because they tend to make you see problems from all angles."

If all you want to do is have your preconceptions reinforced, what is the point?

FWIW, the essence of all the quotes forms a part of great leadership and can, I think, be applied to all the men I namechecked in the previous article.

Well a piece praising a man who spent twenty years legislating for the segregation of black people as a "gift to humanity" certainly challenged all known preconceptions.

If you don't like it here, go somewhere else. Or better, get a life: have a girlfriend, or a boyfriend; go to the theatre; walk the wild moorlands; get a job; milk the cows. Whatever. Just do something productive.

It's really not my fault you've turned yourself into a laughing stock.

Hardly anything new for the PB Tories on politicalbetting.

Pulpstar

taffys said:

''Are you not confusing the President of the Republic of South Africa, with the President of the ANC ? ''

Don't think so. Mandela became president of the South African Republic in 1994 and I think it was in the mid to late 90s that the HIV epidemic really took hold.

I've just rooted out a stat that shows HIV under pregnant South African women soared from 0.8% from 1990 to 30.0% in 2000. (rom about.com).

That is a truly monstrous and shocking statistic.

Richard_Tyndall

Theuniondivvie said:

Patrick said:

Richard Tyndall

The line selected will be a huge bone of contention and a cause of major major arguments then if the Jocks vote YES!

Only if you think the difference between 90 & 95% is HUGE.

'"You might say we should use that line. The interesting thing is, from the economic point of view, it does not make much difference because there are just a handful of fields, and not very important ones now, between the median line and the line north of Berwick. Although lawyers could have a long debate about it, in terms of economics, it does not make all that much difference."
If Scotland were to get a "geographical share" based on the median line it would mean about 90% of the UK's oil resources would be under Scottish jurisdiction.
According to research by Prof Kemp, in 2010 the Scottish share of total oil production in the UKCS was more than 95% while for gas it was 58%. The Scottish share of total hydrocarbon production (including NGLs) was 80%. The Scottish tax share exceeded 90%. This reflects the much higher value of oil compared to gas.'

http://tinyurl.com/qa7ajcx

I agree UD. Please note that I didn't use the word 'HUGE'. I said small but significant which may be an overstatement.

The gas share figures are far wrong by the way if you are referring to actual production for consumption. Much of the Scottish gas production is never brought to shore but is used for powering the platform turbines or for gas lift purposes as part of oil production. Indeed the recently drilled Rochelle gas field is specifically being developed to provide gas support for the Scott and Telford Oil Fields.

The majority of UK gas production for consumption is in the Southern North Sea and Morecambe Bay.

CopperSulphate

taffys said:

''Are you not confusing the President of the Republic of South Africa, with the President of the ANC ? ''

Don't think so. Mandela became president of the South African Republic in 1994 and I think it was in the mid to late 90s that the HIV epidemic really took hold.

I've just rooted out a stat that shows HIV under pregnant South African women soared from 0.8% from 1990 to 30.0% in 2000. (rom about.com).

Wasn't there a similar rise in the infant mortality rate after it had fallen for years?

Pulpstar

What was the rape rate like in SA from 1990-2000 ?

state_go_away

I think Harry in the thread header is being a little unfair on UK politics . Maybe arguing over 'petty' stats etc is a sign that not much is hugely wrong with the UK? I am not sure that the government of South Africa can teach the UK much as well.
Why do we feel the need to do ourselves down like this , I am not sure really.
I would concede that the one thing that is going downhill in the UK is relevant to the quote attributed to Mandela on here ,namely education. If that can get sorted by looking at what is needed to be done rather than worrying about private schools or getting obsessive about 'equality' then the UK will not be a bad place in the future.

Richard_Tyndall

tim said:

david_herdson said:

tim said:

david_herdson said:

R0berts said:

Ah that's better. Good stuff Henry. Last thread wasn't PBs finest hour.

I refer you to the quote in Henry's thread:

“I like friends who have independent minds because they tend to make you see problems from all angles."

If all you want to do is have your preconceptions reinforced, what is the point?

FWIW, the essence of all the quotes forms a part of great leadership and can, I think, be applied to all the men I namechecked in the previous article.

Well a piece praising a man who spent twenty years legislating for the segregation of black people as a "gift to humanity" certainly challenged all known preconceptions.

If you don't like it here, go somewhere else. Or better, get a life: have a girlfriend, or a boyfriend; go to the theatre; walk the wild moorlands; get a job; milk the cows. Whatever. Just do something productive.

david_herdson said:

tim said:

david_herdson said:

R0berts said:

Ah that's better. Good stuff Henry. Last thread wasn't PBs finest hour.

I refer you to the quote in Henry's thread:

“I like friends who have independent minds because they tend to make you see problems from all angles."

If all you want to do is have your preconceptions reinforced, what is the point?

FWIW, the essence of all the quotes forms a part of great leadership and can, I think, be applied to all the men I namechecked in the previous article.

Well a piece praising a man who spent twenty years legislating for the segregation of black people as a "gift to humanity" certainly challenged all known preconceptions.

If you don't like it here, go somewhere else. Or better, get a life: have a girlfriend, or a boyfriend; go to the theatre; walk the wild moorlands; get a job; milk the cows. Whatever. Just do something productive.

It's really not my fault you've turned yourself into a laughing stock.

He hasn't. The only laughing stocks round here are those like you, Roger and R0bert who used teh death of a much admired man as an excuse for petty political points scoring.

Sorry, I should correct that. You should not be laughed at, you should be scorned.

dr_spyn

@Sean T Use this for your blog.

Nelson Mandela ‘Privatization is the fundamental policy of our government. Call me a Thatcherite, if you will.’

david_herdson

SeanT said:

Boo! The Telegraph won't publish my blog satirising the Mandela sob-a-thon.

Give it a month and then resubmit it when people have calmed down and are depressed by January.

TGOHF

SeanT said:

Boo! The Telegraph won't publish my blog satirising the Mandela sob-a-thon.

Post it on here - free speech still just about rules. As long as you don't mention Kay Burley apparently..

Theuniondivvie

Richard_Tyndall said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Patrick said:

Richard Tyndall

The line selected will be a huge bone of contention and a cause of major major arguments then if the Jocks vote YES!

Only if you think the difference between 90 & 95% is HUGE.

'"You might say we should use that line. The interesting thing is, from the economic point of view, it does not make much difference because there are just a handful of fields, and not very important ones now, between the median line and the line north of Berwick. Although lawyers could have a long debate about it, in terms of economics, it does not make all that much difference."
If Scotland were to get a "geographical share" based on the median line it would mean about 90% of the UK's oil resources would be under Scottish jurisdiction.
According to research by Prof Kemp, in 2010 the Scottish share of total oil production in the UKCS was more than 95% while for gas it was 58%. The Scottish share of total hydrocarbon production (including NGLs) was 80%. The Scottish tax share exceeded 90%. This reflects the much higher value of oil compared to gas.'

http://tinyurl.com/qa7ajcx

I agree UD. Please note that I didn't use the word 'HUGE'. I said small but significant which may be an overstatement.

The gas share figures are far wrong by the way if you are referring to actual production for consumption. Much of the Scottish gas production is never brought to shore but is used for powering the platform turbines or for gas lift purposes as part of oil production. Indeed the recently drilled Rochelle gas field is specifically being developed to provide gas support for the Scott and Telford Oil Fields.

The majority of UK gas production for consumption is in the Southern North Sea and Morecambe Bay.

I was replying to Patrick's wishful 'huge'.
Gas figures are in the linked BBC article, I'll take your word for it that they're out of whack though they do refer to 2010.

RobD

TGOHF said:

SeanT said:

Boo! The Telegraph won't publish my blog satirising the Mandela sob-a-thon.

Post it on here - free speech still just about rules. As long as you don't mention Kay Burley apparently..

As long as the letters PB are more than three words away from the word Burley, all is dandy.

TheWatcher

SeanT said:

Boo! The Telegraph won't publish my blog satirising the Mandela sob-a-thon.

They won't whilst the World mourns the loss of a 95 year old stranger.

Pulpstar

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-25261578

I have sympathy for his plight, but this case should never have reached court. People need to be responsible for their own actions in life.

smithersjones2013

Given the monsoon of gut-wrenching, nappy wetting, nausea inducing self-indulgent (from the authors' perspectives) drivel about Mandela written by a political and media class unfit to adorn the underside of the man's shoe but bent on demonstrating once again their faux humanitarian credentials and penchance for groupie hysteria and with the weather here being quite good for the time of year its a good time to get some gardening and DIY done.

RIP Nelson Mandela a good man by all accounts who leaves behind a truly unworthy media and political class

Arriverderci!

PS Osborne must be so pissed off that about the best day of his Chancellorship has disappeared in an avalanche of emotional hysteria. Its a bad day to celebrate good news

And that is definitely it. A bientot

Lennon

state_go_away said:

I don't dislike Mandela and I recognise his significance in the 20th century and that's its obviously very newsworthy. I do dislike a lot of the faux grief and faux worship that is coming out of twitter and more mainstream media.
Its gets a bit dumbed down to be honest and would prefer a respectful rounded consideration of his life and legacy (which can include some dubious bits ) to read about.

Don't disagree with that - which is why I like both David's previous piece as well as this one from Henry - provide a slightly different viewpoint and some interesting counterpoints in places. You might also like following the Economist piece (£ but a couple of articles free) - http://www.economist.com/blogs/baobab/2013/12/nelson-mandela

RobD

smithersjones2013 said:

PS Osborne must be so pissed off that about the best day of his Chancellorship has disappeared in an avalanche of emotional hysteria. Its a bad day to celebrate good news

The silver-lining is it also buried Balls' bad performance.

Pulpstar

Thankyou Madiba for giving Ed Balls an increased chance of political survival. For that I am truly grateful.

RichardNabavi

@SeanT - Brilliant - have you tried submitting it to the New Statesman?

Theuniondivvie

SeanT said:

david_herdson said:

SeanT said:

Boo! The Telegraph won't publish my blog satirising the Mandela sob-a-thon.

Give it a month and then resubmit it when people have calmed down and are depressed by January.

Here is the blog I wrote. The Telegraph editor said he'd love to run it, but he'd probably get sacked:


How I am even sadder about Mandela than anyone else...

Did you just swap out names with one you wrote on the death of Thatch?

TGOHF

I see the Premier League are recommending a minutes applause for the ex Saffer president on Saturday.

Luis Suarez fwapping like a seal will be a fitting tribute.

Next

SeanT said:

david_herdson said:

SeanT said:

Boo! The Telegraph won't publish my blog satirising the Mandela sob-a-thon.

Give it a month and then resubmit it when people have calmed down and are depressed by January.

Here is the blog I wrote. The Telegraph editor said he'd love to run it, but he'd probably get sacked:

How I am even sadder about Mandela than anyone else

I don’t know about you, but I’m sitting here with tears streaming down my face, onto the table, then falling onto the floor. I’ve been crying for the last sixteen hours without cease. Tear after tear after tear.

...

In a very real sense, Nelson Mandela was probably the greatest thing in the entire history of the observable universe, and it is for this that I believe he will be remembered – remembered with smiles and tears and laughter, long after the sun has exploded into a huge ball of burning helium consuming the earth and destroying everything thereupon.

Indeed. It's all very North Korean.

DaemonBarber

SeanT said:

david_herdson said:

SeanT said:

Boo! The Telegraph won't publish my blog satirising the Mandela sob-a-thon.

Give it a month and then resubmit it when people have calmed down and are depressed by January.

Here is the blog I wrote. The Telegraph editor said he'd love to run it, but he'd probably get sacked:


How I am even sadder about Mandela than anyone else
...

A touch of the Charlie Brooker with that ... Screenwipeesque.

RichardNabavi

I must say the wilful ignorance and lack of historical perspective shown in the reaction to David H's superb article was absolutely remarkable. You could almost feel the left knees jerking all the way down here in Sussex.

Smuts was indeed an extraordinary figure, from the Boer War to writing the preamble to the United Nations Charter:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Smuts

TheWatcher

TGOHF said:

I see the Premier League are recommending a minutes applause for the ex Saffer president on Saturday.

.

Is that a spoof? They'd do more good suggesting a whip round at every game for the poor souls who's homes fell into the sea last night.

Charles

SeanT said:

Boo! The Telegraph won't publish my blog satirising the Mandela sob-a-thon.

Can't you explain just how many links and clicks it would get?

It might even lead the BBC headlines...or certainly the news review.

Isn't all publicity good publicity...

eek

RichardNabavi said:

I must say the wilful ignorance and lack of historical perspective shown in the reaction to David H's superb article was absolutely remarkable. You could almost feel the left knees jerking all the way down here in Sussex.

Smuts was indeed an extraordinary figure, from the Boer War to writing the preamble to the United Nations Charter:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Smuts

I do love the number of people who view history from their modern perspective and don't see the immediate flaw when they ask "why on earth did they do that"....

Mind you would anyone expect anything less from Tim...

On a separate point that blog post is superb Sean. Hardly surprising the Telegraph can't publish it this week...

taffys

Outpouring of Mandela indifference on the Mail

Already slithering down their agenda, replaced by storms.

Charles

SeanT said:

Here is the blog I wrote. The Telegraph editor said he'd love to run it, but he'd probably get sacked:

That genuinely made me laugh out loud.

It is like the tiny animals, the squirrels in our parks, are putting their little paws together and praying

I firmly believe he was the greatest vertebrate organism in the history of evolution.

Because I am so very sad. And I am even sadder about this than any of you, which is why I am, perhaps, in a pure and very humble sense, slightly better than you.

[Deleted User]

Theuniondivvie said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Patrick said:

Richard Tyndall

The line selected will be a huge bone of contention and a cause of major major arguments then if the Jocks vote YES!

Only if you think the difference between 90 & 95% is HUGE.

'"You might say we should use that line. The interesting thing is, from the economic point of view, it does not make much difference because there are just a handful of fields, and not very important ones now, between the median line and the line north of Berwick. Although lawyers could have a long debate about it, in terms of economics, it does not make all that much difference."
If Scotland were to get a "geographical share" based on the median line it would mean about 90% of the UK's oil resources would be under Scottish jurisdiction.
According to research by Prof Kemp, in 2010 the Scottish share of total oil production in the UKCS was more than 95% while for gas it was 58%. The Scottish share of total hydrocarbon production (including NGLs) was 80%. The Scottish tax share exceeded 90%. This reflects the much higher value of oil compared to gas.'

http://tinyurl.com/qa7ajcx

I agree UD. Please note that I didn't use the word 'HUGE'. I said small but significant which may be an overstatement.

The gas share figures are far wrong by the way if you are referring to actual production for consumption. Much of the Scottish gas production is never brought to shore but is used for powering the platform turbines or for gas lift purposes as part of oil production. Indeed the recently drilled Rochelle gas field is specifically being developed to provide gas support for the Scott and Telford Oil Fields.

The majority of UK gas production for consumption is in the Southern North Sea and Morecambe Bay.

I was replying to Patrick's wishful 'huge'.
Gas figures are in the linked BBC article, I'll take your word for it that they're out of whack though they do refer to 2010.

Not really wishful in the sense that I think the financial differences are huge but that the options for politicians having huge fights over allocation of income is not to be underestimated. (EU rebate being a prime example)

richardDodd

Balls must be absolutely fuming ..the best speech of his political career, hard hitting, incisive, clever,a weapon to destroy his nemesis , the dreadful Osborne..and then this old South African chap ups and dies...darnit

Lennon

RichardNabavi said:

@SeanT - Brilliant - have you tried submitting it to the New Statesman?

Or Private Eye?

[Deleted User]

Sean that is very funny. Surely someone will pay you for it! DT missed out IMHO.

Cyclefree

SeanT: lovely blog.

Mandela was undoubtedly a great man who did much for South Africa and set a good example to others.

But the Dianafication of public mourning we have to endure these days is frankly tedious, false and does those who have a genuine reason to mourn a disservice to their real grief.

Pulpstar

Why worry about storms or Mandela when there is a photographic exhibition of Abbey Clancy in the Mail ?

MarkSenior

Next said:

SeanT said:

david_herdson said:

SeanT said:

Boo! The Telegraph won't publish my blog satirising the Mandela sob-a-thon.

Give it a month and then resubmit it when people have calmed down and are depressed by January.

Here is the blog I wrote. The Telegraph editor said he'd love to run it, but he'd probably get sacked:

How I am even sadder about Mandela than anyone else

I don’t know about you, but I’m sitting here with tears streaming down my face, onto the table, then falling onto the floor. I’ve been crying for the last sixteen hours without cease. Tear after tear after tear.

...

In a very real sense, Nelson Mandela was probably the greatest thing in the entire history of the observable universe, and it is for this that I believe he will be remembered – remembered with smiles and tears and laughter, long after the sun has exploded into a huge ball of burning helium consuming the earth and destroying everything thereupon.

Indeed. It's all very North Korean.

But not as pewk inducing as his vapourings on the death of Mrs Thatcher .

JosiasJessop

SeanT: you are certainly a good writer.

That very much reminds me of Private Eye's Diary section by Craig Brown.

MaxPB

SeanT said:

Here is the blog I wrote. The Telegraph editor said he'd love to run it, but he'd probably get sacked:

snip

Amazing. I can understand why they won't publish it, but it would be brilliant. I firmly believe Mandela was a great politician and leader. His passing marks the end of an era of political titans. However, the lefty sobfest is extremely OTT. He was old and had been on his way out for months, anyone who hadn't already made peace with the fact that not even "Madiba" was immortal is an idiot.

I would also add that the right have been much more dignified over the death of Mandela than the left were over the death of Thatcher, his opposing titan of the right-wing.

Maybe in a few weeks eh...

TheWatcher

tim said:

MarkSenior said:

Next said:

SeanT said:

david_herdson said:

SeanT said:

Boo! The Telegraph won't publish my blog satirising the Mandela sob-a-thon.

Give it a month and then resubmit it when people have calmed down and are depressed by January.

Here is the blog I wrote. The Telegraph editor said he'd love to run it, but he'd probably get sacked:

How I am even sadder about Mandela than anyone else

I don’t know about you, but I’m sitting here with tears streaming down my face, onto the table, then falling onto the floor. I’ve been crying for the last sixteen hours without cease. Tear after tear after tear.

...

In a very real sense, Nelson Mandela was probably the greatest thing in the entire history of the observable universe, and it is for this that I believe he will be remembered – remembered with smiles and tears and laughter, long after the sun has exploded into a huge ball of burning helium consuming the earth and destroying everything thereupon.

Indeed. It's all very North Korean.

But not as pewk inducing as his vapourings on the death of Mrs Thatcher .

How Sean and George Osborne cried for their adoptive mother who they never or rarely met.

I trust you'll be mocking the lachrymose outpourings at Mandela's funeral.

SimonStClare

SeanT: -“And I am even sadder about this than any of you, which is why I am, perhaps, in a pure and very humble sense, slightly better than you.”

I know the type - and have personally met far too many – gargoyles ever one of them.

Mick_Pork

tim said:

It's kicking off

@MSmithsonPB: All comments are closed at @Telegraph blogs on posts relating to Nelson Mandela and at least one top blogger has had his worked censored

@holysmoke: Rubbish, @MSmithsonPB. We close comments out of respect as we did with Mrs Thatcher and no blogger has had his work censored.

*tears of laughter etc.*

TheWatcher

SeanT said:

tim said:

It's kicking off

@MSmithsonPB: All comments are closed at @Telegraph blogs on posts relating to Nelson Mandela and at least one top blogger has had his worked censored

@holysmoke: Rubbish, @MSmithsonPB. We close comments out of respect as we did with Mrs Thatcher and no blogger has had his work censored.

If Mike S is referring to me then he's wrong. I haven't been "censored" - I've just had a blogpost, written on spec, refused by the editor - which happens all the time. It's not "censoring", it's journalism: an editor doing his job.

But maybe OGH means someone else.

'top blogger' - surely that's Dan Hodges.

'He’s gone. And we know what follows. First the beatification, which, though justified, sits slightly uneasily. '

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100223191/nelson-mandela-fought-the-last-great-crusade-of-modern-civilisation/

R0berts

Oh here we go. Hark at all the free thinking Rightwing iconoclasts, ironically oblivious to the tedious predictability and lazy hypocrisy dripping through their oh-so hard-swingin' contrarianism.

Didn't take long.

TheWatcher

I wonder how many BBC staff will be flying out to South Africa, to cover events and soak up the Winter sunshine?

AlastairMeeks

There's something very appropriate about Margaret Thatcher and Nelson Mandela dying in the same year. It's as if the 20th century has finally ended.

R0berts

TheWatcher said:

I wonder how many BBC staff will be flying out to South Africa, to cover events and soak up the Winter sunshine?

Loads I hope.

I also think we should have a new national holiday called Mandela Day. Wonder if Prime Minister Ed will be the type to think up imaginative and petty ways to irritate the Daily Mail tendency? He seems the type, here's hoping.

TheWatcher

R0berts said:

TheWatcher said:

I wonder how many BBC staff will be flying out to South Africa, to cover events and soak up the Winter sunshine?

Loads I hope.

I also think we should have a new national holiday called Mandela Day. Wonder if Prime Minister Ed will be the type to think up imaginative and petty ways to irritate the Daily Mail tendency? He seems the type, here's hoping.

Tut, that wouldn't be in keeping with 'One Nation Labour'. Dear old Ralph would not approve.

taffys

Didn't take long.

Oh Come on. it isn't Mandela we are taking a swing at, merely those whose who would praise him without reservation or caveat.

Like all great men, Mandela was human. All great men have their faults and failures, and the tributes to him that last will be those that take light and shade into account.

Pulpstar

antifrank said:

There's something very appropriate about Margaret Thatcher and Nelson Mandela dying in the same year. It's as if the 20th century has finally ended.

Gorbachev is still around !

R0berts

Pulpstar said:

antifrank said:

There's something very appropriate about Margaret Thatcher and Nelson Mandela dying in the same year. It's as if the 20th century has finally ended.

Gorbachev is still around !

And Fidel!

isam

R0berts said:

TheWatcher said:

I wonder how many BBC staff will be flying out to South Africa, to cover events and soak up the Winter sunshine?

Loads I hope.

I also think we should have a new national holiday called Mandela Day. Wonder if Prime Minister Ed will be the type to think up imaginative and petty ways to irritate the Daily Mail tendency? He seems the type, here's hoping.

I'll give you the benefit and hope you're lightheartedly trolling

Could you imagine anything lamer and less appropriate than Nelson Mandela Day in England?

R0berts

isam said:

R0berts said:

TheWatcher said:

I wonder how many BBC staff will be flying out to South Africa, to cover events and soak up the Winter sunshine?

Loads I hope.

I also think we should have a new national holiday called Mandela Day. Wonder if Prime Minister Ed will be the type to think up imaginative and petty ways to irritate the Daily Mail tendency? He seems the type, here's hoping.

I'll give you the benefit and hope you're lightheartedly trolling

Could you imagine anything lamer and less appropriate than Nelson Mandela Day in England?

Hehe right the first time. Some sort of high profile permanent memorial though, definitely.

taffys

It's as if the 20th century has finally ended.

The 20th Century will never end. It is the most energy packed (positive and negative) century there's been in mankind's history. One giant wonderful, horrible roller coaster. A monster of a century.

The 21st looks positively docile by comparison.

SimonStClare

O/T

Steven Burrell, 21, spent 16 months hacking profiles on Runescape - the world's biggest online role-playing game - A court heard he then sold people's virtual items, such as potions, weapons and cooking equipment, on auction sites and forums to raise up to £3,000.

Surely this must qualify for the ultimate ‘Nerd’ crime award…!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10500271/Hacker-in-court-over-thefts-in-online-fantasy-game.html

RobD

tim said:

Big Society Day?

Oh, so David Cameron day?

TheWatcher

R0berts said:

isam said:

R0berts said:

TheWatcher said:

I wonder how many BBC staff will be flying out to South Africa, to cover events and soak up the Winter sunshine?

Loads I hope.

I also think we should have a new national holiday called Mandela Day. Wonder if Prime Minister Ed will be the type to think up imaginative and petty ways to irritate the Daily Mail tendency? He seems the type, here's hoping.

I'll give you the benefit and hope you're lightheartedly trolling

Could you imagine anything lamer and less appropriate than Nelson Mandela Day in England?

Hehe right the first time. Some sort of high profile permanent memorial though, definitely.

Like, say, a statue opposite Parliament?

Boris should remodel Trafalgar Square.

JonathanD

taffys said:

It's as if the 20th century has finally ended.


The 21st looks positively docile by comparison.

You sure they didn't say that in 1913?

Theuniondivvie

taffys said:

It's as if the 20th century has finally ended.

The 20th Century will never end. It is the most energy packed (positive and negative) century there's been in mankind's history. One giant wonderful, horrible roller coaster. A monster of a century.

The 21st looks positively docile by comparison.

I'm guessing there were people saying something similar in 1913.

isam

tim said:

Peter Oborne ‏@OborneTweets 9m
Conservatives must acknowledge that they were wrong about Mandela. My latest blog post http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/peteroborne/100249502/few-human-beings-can-be-compared-to-jesus-christ-nelson-mandela-was-

Repent collaborators, repent.

Funny, I was thinking that myself...

Mandela's life also reminds me of the plot of my favourite book, The Count Of Monte Cristo, although Mandela was more forgiving than Edmond Dantes,

Mick_Pork

Nigel Farage ‏@Nigel_Farage 14h

Mandela's ability to forgive those who did him harm and fight for freedom will ensure he remains in our hearts and with future generations.

AlastairMeeks

R0berts said:

isam said:

R0berts said:

TheWatcher said:

I wonder how many BBC staff will be flying out to South Africa, to cover events and soak up the Winter sunshine?

Loads I hope.

I also think we should have a new national holiday called Mandela Day. Wonder if Prime Minister Ed will be the type to think up imaginative and petty ways to irritate the Daily Mail tendency? He seems the type, here's hoping.

I'll give you the benefit and hope you're lightheartedly trolling

Could you imagine anything lamer and less appropriate than Nelson Mandela Day in England?

Hehe right the first time. Some sort of high profile permanent memorial though, definitely.

We already have this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nelson_Mandela_on_Parliament_Square,_Westminster_-_geograph.org.uk_-_1229312.jpg

And this:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Nelson_Mandela_bust,_Southbank,_London.jpg

That seems like quite enough to me for a foreign head of state whose primary achievements, however inspirational, were domestic to that country.

Theuniondivvie

JonathanD said:

taffys said:

It's as if the 20th century has finally ended.


The 21st looks positively docile by comparison.

You sure they didn't say that in 1913?

Ha, beaten to the draw!

RobD

tim said:

RobD said:

tim said:

Big Society Day?

Oh, so David Cameron day?

We could create a special day to celebrate the wit,wisdom and hypocrisy of David Cameron, combine Madiba Day with Big Society Day and create As A Father Day.

I prefer to celebrate the Master Strategists & Heir-to-a-Baronetcy day, thank you very much.

R0berts

antifrank said:

R0berts said:

isam said:

R0berts said:

TheWatcher said:

I wonder how many BBC staff will be flying out to South Africa, to cover events and soak up the Winter sunshine?

Loads I hope.

I also think we should have a new national holiday called Mandela Day. Wonder if Prime Minister Ed will be the type to think up imaginative and petty ways to irritate the Daily Mail tendency? He seems the type, here's hoping.

I'll give you the benefit and hope you're lightheartedly trolling

Could you imagine anything lamer and less appropriate than Nelson Mandela Day in England?

Hehe right the first time. Some sort of high profile permanent memorial though, definitely.

We already have this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nelson_Mandela_on_Parliament_Square,_Westminster_-_geograph.org.uk_-_1229312.jpg

And this:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Nelson_Mandela_bust,_Southbank,_London.jpg

That seems like quite enough to me for a foreign head of state whose primary achievements, however inspirational, were domestic to that country.

More!

Nelson Mandela Museum, dedicated to political correctness gone mad - sorry, the fight against racism - throughout history. That should be suitably irritating to Mail readers.

[Deleted User]

Video evidence that Nelson Mandela was an unscrupulous drug dealer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOiw_OmQo2o

:-)

JonathanD

Theuniondivvie said:

JonathanD said:

taffys said:

It's as if the 20th century has finally ended.


The 21st looks positively docile by comparison.

You sure they didn't say that in 1913?

Ha, beaten to the draw!

lol, great minds and so on... it was those extra two words you used that slowed you down!

RobD

tim said:

RobD said:

I prefer to celebrate the Master Strategists & Heir-to-a-Baronetcy day, thank you very much.

Hair to a OmniBaronetcy Day

We could all wear Osborne wigs and offer gifts of pasties to top rate income tax payers.

How silly. You clearly offer them to the nanny's of higher rate taxpayers, as per tradition