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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Ohio Senator Sherrod Brown – now being talked about as a compr

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  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898

    Play the games behind closed doors. Give everyone emergency access to football / sport via the BBC.

    That's what is happening in Japan at the weekend where the horse racing meetings will all be held at empty venues. Doesn't stop off-track or online wagering of course - crowds at Happy Valley and Sha Tin have been severely restricted but racing has continued because of the value of off-track wagering.

    Could Cheltenham races be held at an empty racecourse? The course wouldn't like the hit on hospitality and especially the bar takings.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    edited February 2020

    eadric said:
    Its quite extraordinary that you take tweets like that at face value. Neither the person nor the company are named. Could easily be a complete fabrication.
    No idea about that account, but I have thought for a few weeks that the airline industry is (at least in public) underestimating the risk of coronavirus. Even if it doesn't reach the worst estimates it could be widespread enough for long enough that there's a big hit to summer holiday bookings. The industry is infamously low margin and capital-heavy with lots of leveraged assets. I don't know how big a general decline in demand it could endure for a key season without a bunch of airlines just going bust. It's an industry where some airlines go bust even in the good years due to cashflow problems and competition.

    I know lots of people anxious about holidays they have booked, and very few people still making new bookings. Everyone is waiting to see how it goes, and there's only so long that can happen before a bunch of airlines run out of cash. And if the virus does get worse and a lot of people decide against ever making that foreign trip this summer, I worry for the airlines.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    IF those death rate numbers are correct then authorities might be better off telling elderly people to stay at home rather than stopping young people travelling.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533

    Good candidate but I'm suspicious of the idea that they'll go for a random non-runner. If you're trying to get 51% of votes at the convention it's easier to start with someone who's already got delegates, and since Bernie and Biden look like the front-runners in a scenario like this, and they have excellent Being Likely To Die skills, it's easier to just buy off another runner with the VP slot.

    Bernie, Biden and Bloomberg are too effing old
    Is there any polling on whether US voters think candidate being very old is good, bad or irrelevant? Genuine question.
  • Snap!! I read the same article this morning and placed a bet at 510/1.

  • eadric said:

    isam said:

    eadric said:
    It is not inconceivable that Boris could shut off all our borders to any non UK citizen by May, and have Remainers cheering him all the way! What price that last December?
    Israel is advising its citizens to avoid ALL foreign travel

    https://twitter.com/dcexaminer/status/1232789316730073094?s=20

    I am due to go to Israel a week on Sunday. I have had no advice from anyone not to, so off I will trot. If they let people in, what's the pont of advising citizens not to leave?

  • eadric said:
    Yep - we have had both Ericsson and Facebook pull out of events we are doing for that vey reason.

  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,751
    How many more days do people think the stock market correction has yet to run? I reckon so far Asia’s Q1 gdp yoy could be as much as high single digit percents down. Nothing is getting done here. And it sounds like the rest of the world is now organising similar curtailments of economic activity.

    I still think (and hope) this will be a relatively short lived health crisis, in the order of a few months. But the economic impact could be quite outsized. But when does Mr Market feel the risk has been priced in I wonder?
  • eadric said:

    isam said:

    eadric said:
    It is not inconceivable that Boris could shut off all our borders to any non UK citizen by May, and have Remainers cheering him all the way! What price that last December?
    Israel is advising its citizens to avoid ALL foreign travel

    https://twitter.com/dcexaminer/status/1232789316730073094?s=20

    I am due to go to Israel a week on Sunday. I have had no advice from anyone not to, so off I will trot. If they let people in, what's the pont of advising citizens not to leave?

    Isn't that standard though? EG the FCO may advise against "non-essential travel" but then doesn't enforce it or stop people coming. Its just stating the risk and letting people then make their mind up - plus it activates insurance policies so trips can be legally cancelled without super steep surcharges.

    I think our government should do the same thing. I know of people who no longer wish to fly but their insurance won't cancel the flight without FCO advice to not travel.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    edited February 2020
    eadric said:
    Former seems to be an important word here. He was ambassador almost forty years ago.

    https://www.nytimes.com/1981/05/17/world/vatican-gets-first-ambassador-from-the-islamic-republic-of-iran.html
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    RobD said:

    eadric said:
    Former seems to be an important word here. He was ambassador almost forty years ago.

    https://www.nytimes.com/1981/05/17/world/vatican-gets-first-ambassador-from-the-islamic-republic-of-iran.html
    Fuck me the incubation period is longer than we thought!
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    eadric said:
    It is not inconceivable that Boris could shut off all our borders to any non UK citizen by May, and have Remainers cheering him all the way! What price that last December?
    It's not much use sealing the borders if you still let UK citizens in.
    Yeah I guess. I doubt we would be allowed to force other countries to keep them though would we?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218
    eadric said:
    I don't think he's been the Ambassador to the Vatican recently. I think that was a long time ago.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    We've just had the email to take our laptops home every evening in case London is locked down and everyone told to stay home by the government.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    isam said:

    RobD said:

    eadric said:
    Former seems to be an important word here. He was ambassador almost forty years ago.

    https://www.nytimes.com/1981/05/17/world/vatican-gets-first-ambassador-from-the-islamic-republic-of-iran.html
    Fuck me the incubation period is longer than we thought!
    Only if you think it escaped from the Vatican's bioweapon labs....

    *paging Dan Brown.....*
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    Alistair said:

    What I don't get is that Warren has some decent national numbers (as in she is hitting 3rd place in some polls) but state polling, like this one, looks absolutely horrific for her. Is there a group of states she is going to come first in that haven't been polled?
    No. But there are states where she does as well as, or better than, her national average. They tend to be ones with an affluent, white, culturally liberal voter base. Eg MA, NY
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,298
    The only compromise candidate I think Bernie supporters would even consider is Warren.
    The dems have more chance with Bernie than with a Sherrod with no mandate.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    MaxPB said:

    We've just had the email to take our laptops home every evening in case London is locked down and everyone told to stay home by the government.

    Are you allowed to leave them in the office overnight? It's been years since I worked somewhere that allowed them to left there.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359
    moonshine said:

    How many more days do people think the stock market correction has yet to run? I reckon so far Asia’s Q1 gdp yoy could be as much as high single digit percents down. Nothing is getting done here. And it sounds like the rest of the world is now organising similar curtailments of economic activity.

    I still think (and hope) this will be a relatively short lived health crisis, in the order of a few months. But the economic impact could be quite outsized. But when does Mr Market feel the risk has been priced in I wonder?

    Hopefully not much longer , I am down another 30K today. Been an expensive week, will be in 6 figures soon.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    kinabalu said:

    It's not much use sealing the borders if you still let UK citizens in.

    I think if we're doing it we need to do it. No half measures. Nobody with a sniffle gets in regardless of who they are.

    Fortress Britain until there's a vaccine.
    Fortress Britain hasn't been very good at stopping large numbers of, er, Iranians crossing the Channel in little boats.

    Maybe as part of COVID-19 measures we need to mine the Kent/Essex coast....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited February 2020

    Good candidate but I'm suspicious of the idea that they'll go for a random non-runner. If you're trying to get 51% of votes at the convention it's easier to start with someone who's already got delegates, and since Bernie and Biden look like the front-runners in a scenario like this, and they have excellent Being Likely To Die skills, it's easier to just buy off another runner with the VP slot.

    Bernie, Biden and Bloomberg are too effing old
    Is there any polling on whether US voters think candidate being very old is good, bad or irrelevant? Genuine question.
    63% of Americans would vote for a candidate over 70, 71% would vote for a candidate under 40.


    https://news.gallup.com/poll/254120/less-half-vote-socialist-president.aspx
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359

    kinabalu said:

    It's not much use sealing the borders if you still let UK citizens in.

    I think if we're doing it we need to do it. No half measures. Nobody with a sniffle gets in regardless of who they are.

    Fortress Britain until there's a vaccine.
    Fortress Britain hasn't been very good at stopping large numbers of, er, Iranians crossing the Channel in little boats.

    Maybe as part of COVID-19 measures we need to mine the Kent/Essex coast....
    We even provide an RN taxi service to bring them in.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    malcolmg said:

    moonshine said:

    How many more days do people think the stock market correction has yet to run? I reckon so far Asia’s Q1 gdp yoy could be as much as high single digit percents down. Nothing is getting done here. And it sounds like the rest of the world is now organising similar curtailments of economic activity.

    I still think (and hope) this will be a relatively short lived health crisis, in the order of a few months. But the economic impact could be quite outsized. But when does Mr Market feel the risk has been priced in I wonder?

    Hopefully not much longer , I am down another 30K today. Been an expensive week, will be in 6 figures soon.
    You'll soon have lost enough money to justify being as grumpy as you invariably are....
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359
    Calling Carlotta , you missed this one.................
    https://twitter.com/theSNP/status/1233062522506354689
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    malcolmg said:

    Calling Carlotta , you missed this one.................
    https://twitter.com/theSNP/status/1233062522506354689

    Looks like an impartial source.
  • eadric said:

    isam said:

    eadric said:
    It is not inconceivable that Boris could shut off all our borders to any non UK citizen by May, and have Remainers cheering him all the way! What price that last December?
    Israel is advising its citizens to avoid ALL foreign travel

    https://twitter.com/dcexaminer/status/1232789316730073094?s=20

    I am due to go to Israel a week on Sunday. I have had no advice from anyone not to, so off I will trot. If they let people in, what's the pont of advising citizens not to leave?

    Isn't that standard though? EG the FCO may advise against "non-essential travel" but then doesn't enforce it or stop people coming. Its just stating the risk and letting people then make their mind up - plus it activates insurance policies so trips can be legally cancelled without super steep surcharges.

    I think our government should do the same thing. I know of people who no longer wish to fly but their insurance won't cancel the flight without FCO advice to not travel.

    Ah, right - that makes sense. Cheers
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100
    Quincel said:

    eadric said:
    Its quite extraordinary that you take tweets like that at face value. Neither the person nor the company are named. Could easily be a complete fabrication.
    No idea about that account, but I have thought for a few weeks that the airline industry is (at least in public) underestimating the risk of coronavirus. Even if it doesn't reach the worst estimates it could be widespread enough for long enough that there's a big hit to summer holiday bookings. The industry is infamously low margin and capital-heavy with lots of leveraged assets. I don't know how big a general decline in demand it could endure for a key season without a bunch of airlines just going bust. It's an industry where some airlines go bust even in the good years due to cashflow problems and competition.

    I know lots of people anxious about holidays they have booked, and very few people still making new bookings. Everyone is waiting to see how it goes, and there's only so long that can happen before a bunch of airlines run out of cash. And if the virus does get worse and a lot of people decide against ever making that foreign trip this summer, I worry for the airlines.
    It'll doubtless please Greta and her Green chums
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited February 2020
    eadric said:

    isam said:

    eadric said:
    It is not inconceivable that Boris could shut off all our borders to any non UK citizen by May, and have Remainers cheering him all the way! What price that last December?
    Israel is advising its citizens to avoid ALL foreign travel

    https://twitter.com/dcexaminer/status/1232789316730073094?s=20
    Israel has now refused entry to all foreign nationals from China, Singapore, Hong Kong, Thailand and Macau too according to that article
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited February 2020
    Have we seen this one?

    https://twitter.com/NumbersMuncher/status/1233050390050099207
    Sleepy Joe might be waking up.
  • rkrkrk said:

    The only compromise candidate I think Bernie supporters would even consider is Warren.
    The dems have more chance with Bernie than with a Sherrod with no mandate.

    The NYT had a quote from a Dem senior activist saying the Sherrod idea was like something out of a political novel. But added that Trump was like something out of a nightmare, so why not go novel?
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    MaxPB said:

    We've just had the email to take our laptops home every evening in case London is locked down and everyone told to stay home by the government.

    My firm sent an email today with the same. All work-related foreign trips are presumed cancelled unless we hear otherwise, and all UK-based conferences or similar are likely to follow. All trips (work or personal) to a dozen countries including Northern Italy now require 14 days of working from home regardless of if we have symptoms. And just like you we have to take our laptops home every night now in case we suddenly close the office.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    Quincel said:

    Pulpstar said:

    2024 Dem primary:
    AOC vs Chelsea Clinton vs Joe Kennedy vs Elon Musk

    2024 GOP Primary
    Ivanka Trump by acclamation.

    If Boris Johnson truly is 'Britain's Trump', and Boris Johnson was born in America...
    Funny thought but Johnson has renounced his US citizenship. Even if he regained it somehow now he's no longer be a "natural born" citizen.
    That's correct. There is no mechanism to "undo" voluntarily relinquishing US citizenship. other than maybe trying to convince the US courts that the act was made under duress or without sound mind or something. (I believe the UK does allow those who have renounced British citizenship to resume it under certain circumstances.)

    Even if Boris could find some wheeze to undo his relinquishment though, he'd still have to move to the US and stay there for fourteen years to become eligible to be POTUS.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,230
    rkrkrk said:

    The only compromise candidate I think Bernie supporters would even consider is Warren.
    The dems have more chance with Bernie than with a Sherrod with no mandate.

    Quite, and I think they will know that.

    In which case they're better off gambling on Bernie - at least there's the upside, from the Democratic establishment POV, of discrediting his politics if he loses.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,210

    Good candidate but I'm suspicious of the idea that they'll go for a random non-runner. If you're trying to get 51% of votes at the convention it's easier to start with someone who's already got delegates, and since Bernie and Biden look like the front-runners in a scenario like this, and they have excellent Being Likely To Die skills, it's easier to just buy off another runner with the VP slot.

    Bernie, Biden and Bloomberg are too effing old
    Is there any polling on whether US voters think candidate being very old is good, bad or irrelevant? Genuine question.


    A 51 year old candidate would be at a massive disadvantage. Past that though the older you get the stronger your chances. You need to wait till you're over 63 before your chances are as good as they were at 38 mind.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Selling Airline shares still looks value doesnt it?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,230
    rcs1000 said:

    eadric said:
    I don't think he's been the Ambassador to the Vatican recently. I think that was a long time ago.
    Damn, you just debunked a novel conspiracy theory before it even got off the ground.
  • https://twitter.com/RBReich/status/1232939748286550018

    The US election aint gonna happen this year is it?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,468
    rpjs said:

    Quincel said:

    Pulpstar said:

    2024 Dem primary:
    AOC vs Chelsea Clinton vs Joe Kennedy vs Elon Musk

    2024 GOP Primary
    Ivanka Trump by acclamation.

    If Boris Johnson truly is 'Britain's Trump', and Boris Johnson was born in America...
    Funny thought but Johnson has renounced his US citizenship. Even if he regained it somehow now he's no longer be a "natural born" citizen.
    That's correct. There is no mechanism to "undo" voluntarily relinquishing US citizenship. other than maybe trying to convince the US courts that the act was made under duress or without sound mind or something. (I believe the UK does allow those who have renounced British citizenship to resume it under certain circumstances.)

    Even if Boris could find some wheeze to undo his relinquishment though, he'd still have to move to the US and stay there for fourteen years to become eligible to be POTUS.
    He could unrevoke because he wasn't of sound mind when he revoked?

    I'm sure witnesses could be found!
  • UK schools could shut for two months
    England’s chief medical officer, Professor Chris Whitty, has said that there could be a "social cost" if the virus intensifies and leads to the reduction of mass gatherings and school closures for more than two months.

    He added:

    "One of the things that's really clear with this virus, much more so than flu, is that anything we do we're going to have to do for quite a long period of time, probably more than two months.

    "The implications of that are non-trivial, so we need to think that through carefully.

    "This is something we face as really quite a serious problem for society potentially if this goes out of control. It may not but if it does globally then we may have to face that."

    Telegraph blog
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359

    malcolmg said:

    moonshine said:

    How many more days do people think the stock market correction has yet to run? I reckon so far Asia’s Q1 gdp yoy could be as much as high single digit percents down. Nothing is getting done here. And it sounds like the rest of the world is now organising similar curtailments of economic activity.

    I still think (and hope) this will be a relatively short lived health crisis, in the order of a few months. But the economic impact could be quite outsized. But when does Mr Market feel the risk has been priced in I wonder?

    Hopefully not much longer , I am down another 30K today. Been an expensive week, will be in 6 figures soon.
    You'll soon have lost enough money to justify being as grumpy as you invariably are....
    I will be super grumpy
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    HYUFD said:

    Good candidate but I'm suspicious of the idea that they'll go for a random non-runner. If you're trying to get 51% of votes at the convention it's easier to start with someone who's already got delegates, and since Bernie and Biden look like the front-runners in a scenario like this, and they have excellent Being Likely To Die skills, it's easier to just buy off another runner with the VP slot.

    Bernie, Biden and Bloomberg are too effing old
    Is there any polling on whether US voters think candidate being very old is good, bad or irrelevant? Genuine question.
    63% of Americans would vote for a candidate over 70, 71% would vote for a candidate under 40.


    https://news.gallup.com/poll/254120/less-half-vote-socialist-president.aspx
    100% of Americans are going to have no option but to vote for a candidate over 70.....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,230

    IF those death rate numbers are correct then authorities might be better off telling elderly people to stay at home rather than stopping young people travelling.

    But the young can then pass it on to the old (and are more likely to be asymptomatic carriers)....

    If you're going to shut things down temporarily to stop the spread, then you need to shut down across the age gamut.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    We've just had the email to take our laptops home every evening in case London is locked down and everyone told to stay home by the government.

    Are you allowed to leave them in the office overnight? It's been years since I worked somewhere that allowed them to left there.
    Yes, our office is a secure site though.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359
    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    Calling Carlotta , you missed this one.................
    https://twitter.com/theSNP/status/1233062522506354689

    Looks like an impartial source.
    Honest source at least Rob, none of your unionist muck involved. The Tory Deputy Leader made a right tit of herself, told Sturgeon they needed to spend 15.4M on drugs and when Sturgeon advised that they were adding 20M the dummy said it wasn't enough. Ran out of fingers and toes.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,230
    edited February 2020

    eadric said:

    isam said:

    eadric said:
    It is not inconceivable that Boris could shut off all our borders to any non UK citizen by May, and have Remainers cheering him all the way! What price that last December?
    Israel is advising its citizens to avoid ALL foreign travel

    https://twitter.com/dcexaminer/status/1232789316730073094?s=20
    Lots of sensible stuff coming out.

    Private companies making decisions to protect their employees is really excellent news.

    Tick tock PHE / Hancock / DoH - where is your information? Where is the sense of urgency. Time is of the essence.
    An extra school holiday, perhaps ?
    (Japanese schools are now out until April - though of course the disease spread is already much more advanced there.)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    moonshine said:

    How many more days do people think the stock market correction has yet to run? I reckon so far Asia’s Q1 gdp yoy could be as much as high single digit percents down. Nothing is getting done here. And it sounds like the rest of the world is now organising similar curtailments of economic activity.

    I still think (and hope) this will be a relatively short lived health crisis, in the order of a few months. But the economic impact could be quite outsized. But when does Mr Market feel the risk has been priced in I wonder?

    Hopefully not much longer , I am down another 30K today. Been an expensive week, will be in 6 figures soon.
    You'll soon have lost enough money to justify being as grumpy as you invariably are....
    I will be super grumpy
    The world may be getting prepared for COVID-19 lock down, but it sure as hell ain't remotely ready for super grumpy malcyg!!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    moonshine said:

    How many more days do people think the stock market correction has yet to run? I reckon so far Asia’s Q1 gdp yoy could be as much as high single digit percents down. Nothing is getting done here. And it sounds like the rest of the world is now organising similar curtailments of economic activity.

    I still think (and hope) this will be a relatively short lived health crisis, in the order of a few months. But the economic impact could be quite outsized. But when does Mr Market feel the risk has been priced in I wonder?

    That’s a tough one. It’s been another good day for my sell positions and I’m now up around £4.5k.

    Markets respond to mood, and I am picking up first signs of a more level headed approach to the virus at least starting to emerge, and people are starting to normalise the risk, There is also growing realisation that as the weather starts to warm, the risk is very likely to fall away (with risk of big crisis next winter, when there is no way a vaccine will be ready).

    I am taking some profits this afternoon and holding a minimum position overnight, to see how the land lies tomorrow.

    On the other hand, markets were already overvalued, especially in the US (which I have mostly been trading), and this has prompted the long awaited correction. And the medium term economic damage of all the ceased economic activity is still being underestimated. There isnt going to be a bounce back.

    My instinct is that we have probably seen the worst for this week, and may have an indecisive Friday.

    It’s then a race against time as the virus spreads but the northern hemisphere warms. More bad news next week could send markets down again.

    Medium term, I don’t think this is going to be a good year for investment, with a depressed market as the poor economic news filters through the system over the summer, and risk of a further crash in the autumn as summer weather recedes and Corona returns.

    So, unlike some previous crises (for example 9/11) I don’t think the lower prices represent a great buying opportunity, and I won’t be rushing to buy back the shares I sold earlier in the month.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    https://twitter.com/RBReich/status/1232939748286550018

    The US election aint gonna happen this year is it?

    Has to happen by January 20th 2021[1], absent a constitutional amendment.

    [1] Actually probably before, as I think the constitution specifies when the electoral college is supposed to meet, but I CBA to look it up.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    rpjs said:

    Quincel said:

    Pulpstar said:

    2024 Dem primary:
    AOC vs Chelsea Clinton vs Joe Kennedy vs Elon Musk

    2024 GOP Primary
    Ivanka Trump by acclamation.

    If Boris Johnson truly is 'Britain's Trump', and Boris Johnson was born in America...
    Funny thought but Johnson has renounced his US citizenship. Even if he regained it somehow now he's no longer be a "natural born" citizen.
    That's correct. There is no mechanism to "undo" voluntarily relinquishing US citizenship. other than maybe trying to convince the US courts that the act was made under duress or without sound mind or something. (I believe the UK does allow those who have renounced British citizenship to resume it under certain circumstances.)

    Even if Boris could find some wheeze to undo his relinquishment though, he'd still have to move to the US and stay there for fourteen years to become eligible to be POTUS.
    By which point he'd only have to wait a few more years before being old enough to be considered a candidate....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,230
    rpjs said:

    https://twitter.com/RBReich/status/1232939748286550018

    The US election aint gonna happen this year is it?

    Has to happen by January 20th 2021[1], absent a constitutional amendment.

    [1] Actually probably before, as I think the constitution specifies when the electoral college is supposed to meet, but I CBA to look it up.
    The course of this thing will probably be done one way or another by November... and even the Democratic Convention in July ought to be fine.
    And Super Tuesday will be out of the way before it takes hold.
  • Surprised not to see more discussion about Heathrow today.

    Personally I think its time to bring back the idea of Boris Island. Doesn't necessarily have to be explicitly in the Thames Estuary, but at this time of infrastructure investments a new purpose built 4-runway airport with good purpose built transport links rather than constantly messing around with an overcrowded airport in an overcrowded residential area could be a good idea now.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Quincel said:

    MaxPB said:

    We've just had the email to take our laptops home every evening in case London is locked down and everyone told to stay home by the government.

    My firm sent an email today with the same. All work-related foreign trips are presumed cancelled unless we hear otherwise, and all UK-based conferences or similar are likely to follow. All trips (work or personal) to a dozen countries including Northern Italy now require 14 days of working from home regardless of if we have symptoms. And just like you we have to take our laptops home every night now in case we suddenly close the office.
    The surprise will be if all the cancelled conferences and business travel creates a boost in productivity as everyone works away at their desk (or from home) ;)
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    alterego said:

    Quincel said:

    eadric said:
    Its quite extraordinary that you take tweets like that at face value. Neither the person nor the company are named. Could easily be a complete fabrication.
    No idea about that account, but I have thought for a few weeks that the airline industry is (at least in public) underestimating the risk of coronavirus. Even if it doesn't reach the worst estimates it could be widespread enough for long enough that there's a big hit to summer holiday bookings. The industry is infamously low margin and capital-heavy with lots of leveraged assets. I don't know how big a general decline in demand it could endure for a key season without a bunch of airlines just going bust. It's an industry where some airlines go bust even in the good years due to cashflow problems and competition.

    I know lots of people anxious about holidays they have booked, and very few people still making new bookings. Everyone is waiting to see how it goes, and there's only so long that can happen before a bunch of airlines run out of cash. And if the virus does get worse and a lot of people decide against ever making that foreign trip this summer, I worry for the airlines.
    It'll doubtless please Greta and her Green chums
    Hopefully if there is a general suspension of business travel by corporations, it will make them reassess how much is actually necessary. My (Swedish-based) company has already pledged to cut business travel by 25% this year because Greta, and is (reluctantly) opening up to more remote working because we're growing faster than we can acquire office space. We have our annual internal tech conference scheduled for April here in NYC. Currently the official line is that it's still going ahead, but we shall see.
  • HYUFD said:

    Good candidate but I'm suspicious of the idea that they'll go for a random non-runner. If you're trying to get 51% of votes at the convention it's easier to start with someone who's already got delegates, and since Bernie and Biden look like the front-runners in a scenario like this, and they have excellent Being Likely To Die skills, it's easier to just buy off another runner with the VP slot.

    Bernie, Biden and Bloomberg are too effing old
    Is there any polling on whether US voters think candidate being very old is good, bad or irrelevant? Genuine question.
    63% of Americans would vote for a candidate over 70, 71% would vote for a candidate under 40.


    https://news.gallup.com/poll/254120/less-half-vote-socialist-president.aspx
    100% of Americans are going to have no option but to vote for a candidate over 70.....
    Not true. There's always the options of voting for a third party candidate or not voting at all.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    RobD said:

    eadric said:
    Former seems to be an important word here. He was ambassador almost forty years ago.

    https://www.nytimes.com/1981/05/17/world/vatican-gets-first-ambassador-from-the-islamic-republic-of-iran.html
    Have the Iranians yet alleged it is a bio-weapon targetting a specific Iranian DNA trait? Which they long predicted and so they were justified in trying to build the Bomb.

    Can't be long in coming.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,751
    Biff Tannon already won the presidency in 2016.

    In a few months Jimmy Smits (ideas on who?) will win the brokered convention. And after that it’s Kevin Spacey suspending the election (aka Mike Pence).

    Which leaves us with Harrison Ford throwing a terrorist out of a plane, followed by Bill Pullman shooting down a UFO.

    And thus we have my 5 top US screen president moments of all time come true in real life.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    edited February 2020

    kinabalu said:

    It's not much use sealing the borders if you still let UK citizens in.

    I think if we're doing it we need to do it. No half measures. Nobody with a sniffle gets in regardless of who they are.

    Fortress Britain until there's a vaccine.
    Fortress Britain hasn't been very good at stopping large numbers of, er, Iranians crossing the Channel in little boats.

    Maybe as part of COVID-19 measures we need to mine the Kent/Essex coast....
    This is a stupid comment. If there were to be a travel ban it would stop very large numbers of people crossing the UK border, even if the number of little boats crossing the channel increased 100-fold.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,230

    UK schools could shut for two months
    England’s chief medical officer, Professor Chris Whitty, has said that there could be a "social cost" if the virus intensifies and leads to the reduction of mass gatherings and school closures for more than two months.

    He added:

    "One of the things that's really clear with this virus, much more so than flu, is that anything we do we're going to have to do for quite a long period of time, probably more than two months.

    "The implications of that are non-trivial, so we need to think that through carefully.

    "This is something we face as really quite a serious problem for society potentially if this goes out of control. It may not but if it does globally then we may have to face that."

    Telegraph blog

    The cost of shutting schools for two months would be massively less than that of a full scale pandemic.
    They've probably got a couple of weeks or so to think about it, and should be doing so very seriously.

    Japan just did something along these lines, though only into early April:
    https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Coronavirus/Abe-seeks-nationwide-school-closures-over-coronavirus
  • HYUFD said:

    Good candidate but I'm suspicious of the idea that they'll go for a random non-runner. If you're trying to get 51% of votes at the convention it's easier to start with someone who's already got delegates, and since Bernie and Biden look like the front-runners in a scenario like this, and they have excellent Being Likely To Die skills, it's easier to just buy off another runner with the VP slot.

    Bernie, Biden and Bloomberg are too effing old
    Is there any polling on whether US voters think candidate being very old is good, bad or irrelevant? Genuine question.
    63% of Americans would vote for a candidate over 70, 71% would vote for a candidate under 40.


    https://news.gallup.com/poll/254120/less-half-vote-socialist-president.aspx
    100% of Americans are going to have no option but to vote for a candidate over 70.....
    It is extraordinary. All of Britain's postwar PMs were between 40 and 65 when taking office, with the exception of Churchill who was coming back for a second term.

    If anything our average has probably edged downwards as 3 of the last 6 were in their 40s when becoming PM (Major, Blair and Cameron)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    eristdoof said:

    kinabalu said:

    It's not much use sealing the borders if you still let UK citizens in.

    I think if we're doing it we need to do it. No half measures. Nobody with a sniffle gets in regardless of who they are.

    Fortress Britain until there's a vaccine.
    Fortress Britain hasn't been very good at stopping large numbers of, er, Iranians crossing the Channel in little boats.

    Maybe as part of COVID-19 measures we need to mine the Kent/Essex coast....
    This is a stupid comment. If there were to be a travel ban it would stop very large numbers of people crossing the UK border, even if the number of little boats crossing the channel increased 100-fold.
    I don't think I implied it was ever anything but a stupid comment.....
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,760

    I've just seen a graphic of Coronavirus death rates (Obviously an early study) but it does suggest it is dangerous for elderly people with existing health problems.

    The death rate for 80 plus people is 14.8 per cent, which is very considerable

    Lower down the ages it plummets however.

    50/59 is 1.3%
    40/49 is 0.40%
    20/29 is 0.20%.

    Its an early study but those are pretty low numbers.

    The source is worldometers.info

    To put that in context, from a random google (so I haven't checked authenticity of this site) the all-cause death rate for 80-84 year olds in Us in 2017 was 6.9% male, 5.1% female; for 85 and over 14.7% and 13.0% male/female. Many many illnesses (and life itself) are dangerous for elderly people with existing health problems.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    edited February 2020
    The US seems to be a perfect storm for Coronavirus.

    1. Patients have to pay for healthcare -> will lead to sick people avoiding testing and treatment
    2. Large percentage of the population over 75, where mortality rises sharply to 10-15% (our 75+ is 9%, vs China 3.3%)
    3. Epidemic of low savings - people in the early stages of it may continue working trying to push through.
    4. Fractured healthcare system
    5. Massive rates of obesity. Obese people are 40% more likely to develop pneumonia, people with a BMI over 35 are more than twice as likely to develop it compared to a healthy person. This will lead to a substantially higher demand on resources. About 20-25% of the US are in the 35+ BMI bracket.
    5. A President very keen on keeping the stock market on a short term high.
    6. Gun nuts that won't be keen on quarantine.
  • Chameleon said:

    The US seems to be a perfect storm for Coronavirus.

    1. Patients have to pay for healthcare -> will lead to sick people avoiding testing and treatment
    2. Large percentage of the population over 75, where mortality rises sharply to 10-15% (our 75+ is 9%, vs China 3.3%)
    3. Epidemic of low savings - people in the early stages of it may continue working trying to push through.
    4. Fractured healthcare system
    5. Massive rates of obesity. Obese people are 40% more likely to develop pneumonia, people with a BMI over 35 are more than twice as likely to develop it compared to a healthy person. This will lead to a substantially higher demand on resources.
    5. A President very keen on keeping the stock market on a short term high.
    6. Gun nuts that won't be keen on quarantine.

    The USA has three things working in its favour though:

    1: Very low population density (35 per square km in USA vs 117 per square km in EU and 274 per square km in UK)
    2: A geographically very spread out nature. The distances between US states and cities is massive compared to here, will make quarantine much easier.
    3: Much lower rates of international travel.

    If coronavirus does become an epidemic in America its more likely to affect blue states before the red ones.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    eadric said:
    I work in flights, our income has been smashed.

    And to go all materialistic about things this is an absolute bummer as we have share options that are vesting soon which are going to lose a lot of value.
  • Nigelb said:

    UK schools could shut for two months
    England’s chief medical officer, Professor Chris Whitty, has said that there could be a "social cost" if the virus intensifies and leads to the reduction of mass gatherings and school closures for more than two months.

    He added:

    "One of the things that's really clear with this virus, much more so than flu, is that anything we do we're going to have to do for quite a long period of time, probably more than two months.

    "The implications of that are non-trivial, so we need to think that through carefully.

    "This is something we face as really quite a serious problem for society potentially if this goes out of control. It may not but if it does globally then we may have to face that."

    Telegraph blog

    The cost of shutting schools for two months would be massively less than that of a full scale pandemic.
    They've probably got a couple of weeks or so to think about it, and should be doing so very seriously.

    Japan just did something along these lines, though only into early April:
    https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Coronavirus/Abe-seeks-nationwide-school-closures-over-coronavirus
    Most schools are not like Eton. Stopping children meeting in school is not going to stop them meeting out of school.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,468

    HYUFD said:

    Good candidate but I'm suspicious of the idea that they'll go for a random non-runner. If you're trying to get 51% of votes at the convention it's easier to start with someone who's already got delegates, and since Bernie and Biden look like the front-runners in a scenario like this, and they have excellent Being Likely To Die skills, it's easier to just buy off another runner with the VP slot.

    Bernie, Biden and Bloomberg are too effing old
    Is there any polling on whether US voters think candidate being very old is good, bad or irrelevant? Genuine question.
    63% of Americans would vote for a candidate over 70, 71% would vote for a candidate under 40.


    https://news.gallup.com/poll/254120/less-half-vote-socialist-president.aspx
    100% of Americans are going to have no option but to vote for a candidate over 70.....
    It is extraordinary. All of Britain's postwar PMs were between 40 and 65 when taking office, with the exception of Churchill who was coming back for a second term.

    If anything our average has probably edged downwards as 3 of the last 6 were in their 40s when becoming PM (Major, Blair and Cameron)
    We're raising the retirement age though, in part at any rate because of longevity.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,230
    edited February 2020
    Some commentary on (the WHO's) Aylward's press conference, which provides some support for China's claims to be getting on top of the virus:
    (a thread)
    https://twitter.com/MackayIM/status/1232803777289146368
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,752
    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    Calling Carlotta , you missed this one.................
    https://twitter.com/theSNP/status/1233062522506354689

    Looks like an impartial source.
    LOL. The fiascos over the hospitals in Glasgow and Edinburgh, plus the withdrawal of maternity services in places like Elgin and Wick has had Jeane Freeman (Scot Health Secretary) in permanent crisis mode. However even this is small beer compared to the education disaster.
    Remember Nicola has over £1,000 per head more to spend up here than down south.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,468
    Alistair said:

    eadric said:
    I work in flights, our income has been smashed.

    And to go all materialistic about things this is an absolute bummer as we have share options that are vesting soon which are going to lose a lot of value.
    Both my sons work in industries where there's a lot of air travel. I wonder what's going to happen.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,230

    Nigelb said:

    UK schools could shut for two months
    England’s chief medical officer, Professor Chris Whitty, has said that there could be a "social cost" if the virus intensifies and leads to the reduction of mass gatherings and school closures for more than two months.

    He added:

    "One of the things that's really clear with this virus, much more so than flu, is that anything we do we're going to have to do for quite a long period of time, probably more than two months.

    "The implications of that are non-trivial, so we need to think that through carefully.

    "This is something we face as really quite a serious problem for society potentially if this goes out of control. It may not but if it does globally then we may have to face that."

    Telegraph blog

    The cost of shutting schools for two months would be massively less than that of a full scale pandemic.
    They've probably got a couple of weeks or so to think about it, and should be doing so very seriously.

    Japan just did something along these lines, though only into early April:
    https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Coronavirus/Abe-seeks-nationwide-school-closures-over-coronavirus
    Most schools are not like Eton. Stopping children meeting in school is not going to stop them meeting out of school.
    In small groups, sure.
    In hundreds... ?
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,019

    Chameleon said:

    The US seems to be a perfect storm for Coronavirus.

    1. Patients have to pay for healthcare -> will lead to sick people avoiding testing and treatment
    2. Large percentage of the population over 75, where mortality rises sharply to 10-15% (our 75+ is 9%, vs China 3.3%)
    3. Epidemic of low savings - people in the early stages of it may continue working trying to push through.
    4. Fractured healthcare system
    5. Massive rates of obesity. Obese people are 40% more likely to develop pneumonia, people with a BMI over 35 are more than twice as likely to develop it compared to a healthy person. This will lead to a substantially higher demand on resources.
    5. A President very keen on keeping the stock market on a short term high.
    6. Gun nuts that won't be keen on quarantine.

    The USA has three things working in its favour though:

    1: Very low population density (35 per square km in USA vs 117 per square km in EU and 274 per square km in UK)
    2: A geographically very spread out nature. The distances between US states and cities is massive compared to here, will make quarantine much easier.
    3: Much lower rates of international travel.

    If coronavirus does become an epidemic in America its more likely to affect blue states before the red ones.
    Lack of intra-city public transport may also be a plus.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    Chameleon said:

    The US seems to be a perfect storm for Coronavirus.

    1. Patients have to pay for healthcare -> will lead to sick people avoiding testing and treatment
    2. Large percentage of the population over 75, where mortality rises sharply to 10-15% (our 75+ is 9%, vs China 3.3%)
    3. Epidemic of low savings - people in the early stages of it may continue working trying to push through.
    4. Fractured healthcare system
    5. Massive rates of obesity. Obese people are 40% more likely to develop pneumonia, people with a BMI over 35 are more than twice as likely to develop it compared to a healthy person. This will lead to a substantially higher demand on resources. About 20-25% of the US are in the 35+ BMI bracket.
    5. A President very keen on keeping the stock market on a short term high.
    6. Gun nuts that won't be keen on quarantine.

    I think the biggest problem in the USA will be the absence of systematic testing and systematic contact tracing. That is what worked in Singapore as containment, and is the reason for the rapid detection of new cases in ROK and Italy. I think Public Health England are pretty good at it to.

    The Yanks are not testing.

    https://twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1232867016991789058?s=19
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Chameleon said:

    The US seems to be a perfect storm for Coronavirus.

    1. Patients have to pay for healthcare -> will lead to sick people avoiding testing and treatment
    2. Large percentage of the population over 75, where mortality rises sharply to 10-15% (our 75+ is 9%, vs China 3.3%)
    3. Epidemic of low savings - people in the early stages of it may continue working trying to push through.
    4. Fractured healthcare system
    5. Massive rates of obesity. Obese people are 40% more likely to develop pneumonia, people with a BMI over 35 are more than twice as likely to develop it compared to a healthy person. This will lead to a substantially higher demand on resources. About 20-25% of the US are in the 35+ BMI bracket.
    5. A President very keen on keeping the stock market on a short term high.
    6. Gun nuts that won't be keen on quarantine.

    And the availability of testing varies considerably by state, it seems some states are finding the testing kits they have (apparently there is a range of types) aren’t working properly, and a lot of states are still having to mail the samples off to Atlanta where they wait for ages before being processed.

    That guy in California who got his positive result today apparently was tested way back.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,230
    Foxy said:

    Chameleon said:

    The US seems to be a perfect storm for Coronavirus.

    1. Patients have to pay for healthcare -> will lead to sick people avoiding testing and treatment
    2. Large percentage of the population over 75, where mortality rises sharply to 10-15% (our 75+ is 9%, vs China 3.3%)
    3. Epidemic of low savings - people in the early stages of it may continue working trying to push through.
    4. Fractured healthcare system
    5. Massive rates of obesity. Obese people are 40% more likely to develop pneumonia, people with a BMI over 35 are more than twice as likely to develop it compared to a healthy person. This will lead to a substantially higher demand on resources. About 20-25% of the US are in the 35+ BMI bracket.
    5. A President very keen on keeping the stock market on a short term high.
    6. Gun nuts that won't be keen on quarantine.

    I think the biggest problem in the USA will be the absence of systematic testing and systematic contact tracing. That is what worked in Singapore as containment, and is the reason for the rapid detection of new cases in ROK and Italy. I think Public Health England are pretty good at it to.

    The Yanks are not testing.

    https://twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1232867016991789058?s=19
    They are belatedly taking steps in that direction:
    https://twitter.com/davidalim/status/1233032552056807426
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Chameleon said:

    The US seems to be a perfect storm for Coronavirus.

    1. Patients have to pay for healthcare -> will lead to sick people avoiding testing and treatment
    2. Large percentage of the population over 75, where mortality rises sharply to 10-15% (our 75+ is 9%, vs China 3.3%)
    3. Epidemic of low savings - people in the early stages of it may continue working trying to push through.
    4. Fractured healthcare system
    5. Massive rates of obesity. Obese people are 40% more likely to develop pneumonia, people with a BMI over 35 are more than twice as likely to develop it compared to a healthy person. This will lead to a substantially higher demand on resources.
    5. A President very keen on keeping the stock market on a short term high.
    6. Gun nuts that won't be keen on quarantine.

    The USA has three things working in its favour though:

    1: Very low population density (35 per square km in USA vs 117 per square km in EU and 274 per square km in UK)
    2: A geographically very spread out nature. The distances between US states and cities is massive compared to here, will make quarantine much easier.
    3: Much lower rates of international travel.

    If coronavirus does become an epidemic in America its more likely to affect blue states before the red ones.
    Americans move about a lot, by road and air. Small town America has pretty poor health facilities. Sure there will be Survivalists Militias in Montana kitted up for this event, but Appalachia not so much.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Chameleon said:

    The US seems to be a perfect storm for Coronavirus.

    1. Patients have to pay for healthcare -> will lead to sick people avoiding testing and treatment
    2. Large percentage of the population over 75, where mortality rises sharply to 10-15% (our 75+ is 9%, vs China 3.3%)
    3. Epidemic of low savings - people in the early stages of it may continue working trying to push through.
    4. Fractured healthcare system
    5. Massive rates of obesity. Obese people are 40% more likely to develop pneumonia, people with a BMI over 35 are more than twice as likely to develop it compared to a healthy person. This will lead to a substantially higher demand on resources.
    5. A President very keen on keeping the stock market on a short term high.
    6. Gun nuts that won't be keen on quarantine.

    The USA has three things working in its favour though:

    1: Very low population density (35 per square km in USA vs 117 per square km in EU and 274 per square km in UK)
    2: A geographically very spread out nature. The distances between US states and cities is massive compared to here, will make quarantine much easier.
    3: Much lower rates of international travel.

    If coronavirus does become an epidemic in America its more likely to affect blue states before the red ones.
    But on 1, a lot of their population is very concentrated in urban areas, and they travel about a lot. Ditto 2 - the volume of internal flights mean that the distance between cities is in itself immaterial. The virus doesn’t have to walk. On 3. it only needs a little International travel - the whole Italian thing appears to have started from one couple.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898

    https://twitter.com/RBReich/status/1232939748286550018

    The US election aint gonna happen this year is it?

    There are of course people working in the UK who don't have sick pay and who literally cannot afford to miss a day's work so that will be how the coronavirus has or will spread here.

    People who cannot afford to miss work won't take any notice of calls to self-isolate. They'll keep going to work no matter how sick they are because they have no choice.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,833
    Is the Today programme a major media outlet? I don't think I know a single person who listens to it. And its approach makes it impossible for interviewees to get their message across.


  • We're raising the retirement age though, in part at any rate because of longevity.

    But part of the expectation - or at least hope - with that is that older employees would have a fade-out farewell, going to a part-time basis or reducing responsibilities before retiring altogether. The theory is that their replacements get to learn from the expert, while the older person transitions into retirement and adapts to relative old age, without suddenly going from five days a week (or more) to zero.

    The idea wasn't really that people would be right at the top of their professions doing high pressure jobs into their old age.

    Bloomberg, Biden and Sanders would all be octogenarians well before the end of their first term. Increase in life expectancy notwithstanding, that is OLD. Not just that, but there are pretty clear signs the first two aren't at the peak of their powers mentally, and that the last isn't physically (having had a heart attack recently).

    It is pretty extraordinary when the job of President really is as high pressure as they come.

    You could point out that Gladstone was 85 and Churchill 81 when they left office. But they were different times, and the truth is that neither was on the top of their game by their final flings; Churchill to the point of really being PM in name only towards the end.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    isam said:
    Yes, our FFP protocol also specifies must be clean shaven to get airtight seal on masks. There are limited hoods too, but not so good.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,230
    edited February 2020
    Cookie said:

    Is the Today programme a major media outlet? I don't think I know a single person who listens to it. And its approach makes it impossible for interviewees to get their message across.
    6 or 7 million audience.
    Your comment is just silly.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065

    eristdoof said:

    kinabalu said:

    It's not much use sealing the borders if you still let UK citizens in.

    I think if we're doing it we need to do it. No half measures. Nobody with a sniffle gets in regardless of who they are.

    Fortress Britain until there's a vaccine.
    Fortress Britain hasn't been very good at stopping large numbers of, er, Iranians crossing the Channel in little boats.

    Maybe as part of COVID-19 measures we need to mine the Kent/Essex coast....
    This is a stupid comment. If there were to be a travel ban it would stop very large numbers of people crossing the UK border, even if the number of little boats crossing the channel increased 100-fold.
    I don't think I implied it was ever anything but a stupid comment.....
    OK, I'll let you off this time ... ;-)
  • OT - the new "The Invisible Man" is a great twist on the original tale - properly scary....with a great performance from Elisabeth Moss.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Selebian said:

    I've just seen a graphic of Coronavirus death rates (Obviously an early study) but it does suggest it is dangerous for elderly people with existing health problems.

    The death rate for 80 plus people is 14.8 per cent, which is very considerable

    Lower down the ages it plummets however.

    50/59 is 1.3%
    40/49 is 0.40%
    20/29 is 0.20%.

    Its an early study but those are pretty low numbers.

    The source is worldometers.info

    To put that in context, from a random google (so I haven't checked authenticity of this site) the all-cause death rate for 80-84 year olds in Us in 2017 was 6.9% male, 5.1% female; for 85 and over 14.7% and 13.0% male/female. Many many illnesses (and life itself) are dangerous for elderly people with existing health problems.
    The doctor who spoke to us this morning said that the provisional view is that adult men appear significantly more susceptible to catch the virus than women or children. The history of some of the well publicised early cases suggests this also.
  • Cookie said:

    Is the Today programme a major media outlet? I don't think I know a single person who listens to it. And its approach makes it impossible for interviewees to get their message across.
    When someone begins a sentence "I don't think I know a single person who..." the immediate reaction is "it's not all about you, mate... and you probably want to broaden your echo chamber".
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,230
    edited February 2020
    IanB2 said:

    Selebian said:

    I've just seen a graphic of Coronavirus death rates (Obviously an early study) but it does suggest it is dangerous for elderly people with existing health problems.

    The death rate for 80 plus people is 14.8 per cent, which is very considerable

    Lower down the ages it plummets however.

    50/59 is 1.3%
    40/49 is 0.40%
    20/29 is 0.20%.

    Its an early study but those are pretty low numbers.

    The source is worldometers.info

    To put that in context, from a random google (so I haven't checked authenticity of this site) the all-cause death rate for 80-84 year olds in Us in 2017 was 6.9% male, 5.1% female; for 85 and over 14.7% and 13.0% male/female. Many many illnesses (and life itself) are dangerous for elderly people with existing health problems.
    The doctor who spoke to us this morning said that the provisional view is that adult men appear significantly more susceptible to catch the virus than women or children. The history of some of the well publicised early cases suggests this also.
    Not unusual with viral infections.
    I think the figures currently suggest around 60% more men than women.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    isam said:
    Oh thank goodness the beard trend will come to an end then.

    Not that I am actually opposed to the resurgence in beards in the last decade, far from it, I'm just unable to grow a convincing one myself so I'm vindictive.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    edited February 2020
    IanB2 said:

    Selebian said:

    I've just seen a graphic of Coronavirus death rates (Obviously an early study) but it does suggest it is dangerous for elderly people with existing health problems.

    The death rate for 80 plus people is 14.8 per cent, which is very considerable

    Lower down the ages it plummets however.

    50/59 is 1.3%
    40/49 is 0.40%
    20/29 is 0.20%.

    Its an early study but those are pretty low numbers.

    The source is worldometers.info

    To put that in context, from a random google (so I haven't checked authenticity of this site) the all-cause death rate for 80-84 year olds in Us in 2017 was 6.9% male, 5.1% female; for 85 and over 14.7% and 13.0% male/female. Many many illnesses (and life itself) are dangerous for elderly people with existing health problems.
    The doctor who spoke to us this morning said that the provisional view is that adult men appear significantly more susceptible to catch the virus than women or children. The history of some of the well publicised early cases suggests this also.
    I don't think that is correct. The male/ female infection rate in China is more or less equal, but the fatality rate in males is nearly twice that of females.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/18/coronavirus-is-more-fatal-in-men-than-women-major-study-suggests.html
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Alistair said:

    eadric said:
    I work in flights, our income has been smashed.

    And to go all materialistic about things this is an absolute bummer as we have share options that are vesting soon which are going to lose a lot of value.
    Spread betting companies offer bets on individual shares. You had - and probably still have - the opportunity to insure yourself, should you wish.
  • Surprised not to see more discussion about Heathrow today.

    Personally I think its time to bring back the idea of Boris Island. Doesn't necessarily have to be explicitly in the Thames Estuary, but at this time of infrastructure investments a new purpose built 4-runway airport with good purpose built transport links rather than constantly messing around with an overcrowded airport in an overcrowded residential area could be a good idea now.

    It's not a bad idea. You could extend Crossrail a little out past Abbey Wood and build something in the wastes of Erith.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited February 2020
    Some of these states are, in cultural if not political terms, the equivalent of the red wall. However Sanders might fare, and I've no idea whether he or Biden are better placed to beat Trump, most of the Corbyn comparisons do indeed need to be thrown out of the window. He may be as polarising as Trump, but he also seems to have as a big a potential base as Trump. It's actually more equivalent to a closely tied groundswell between Brexit and a successful left in the old industrial heartlands - and that is a situation in which anything could happen.

    https://twitter.com/USA_Polling/status/1233024837729296386


  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,708
    edited February 2020
    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Is the Today programme a major media outlet? I don't think I know a single person who listens to it. And its approach makes it impossible for interviewees to get their message across.
    6 or 7 million audience.
    Your comment is just silly.
    That is the weekly reach - the number who listen for 5 minutes at ANY point in the week.

    The programme lasts for 21 hours (?) each week.

    So someone listening for 5 minutes out of 21 hours is counted in the weekly reach.

    The number listening at any one point in time is a miniscule fraction of that.

    There is a reason all radio audiences are published as weekly reach - because if the programme average (on one day) was published (like TV audiences) they would look very small indeed.
  • Animal_pb said:

    Surprised not to see more discussion about Heathrow today.

    Personally I think its time to bring back the idea of Boris Island. Doesn't necessarily have to be explicitly in the Thames Estuary, but at this time of infrastructure investments a new purpose built 4-runway airport with good purpose built transport links rather than constantly messing around with an overcrowded airport in an overcrowded residential area could be a good idea now.

    It's not a bad idea. You could extend Crossrail a little out past Abbey Wood and build something in the wastes of Erith.
    Getting car traffic anywhere around Kent or SE London from the rest of the country would be an absolute nightmare.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,120
    edited February 2020
    Chameleon said:

    The US seems to be a perfect storm for Coronavirus.

    1. Patients have to pay for healthcare -> will lead to sick people avoiding testing and treatment
    2. Large percentage of the population over 75, where mortality rises sharply to 10-15% (our 75+ is 9%, vs China 3.3%)
    3. Epidemic of low savings - people in the early stages of it may continue working trying to push through.
    4. Fractured healthcare system
    5. Massive rates of obesity. Obese people are 40% more likely to develop pneumonia, people with a BMI over 35 are more than twice as likely to develop it compared to a healthy person. This will lead to a substantially higher demand on resources. About 20-25% of the US are in the 35+ BMI bracket.
    5. A President very keen on keeping the stock market on a short term high.
    6. Gun nuts that won't be keen on quarantine.

    I would add, the extremely large number of illegal immigrants who at the best of times try to avoid any contact with the authorities, and obviously now with Trump rhetoric (even if ICE deportations under Obama were just as high).

    They obviously have no health care and given the nature of their work won't be taking days off to self quarantine on the off chance, while also won't be keen on revealing themselves as potentially having the virus to anybody.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    edited February 2020
    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Selebian said:

    I've just seen a graphic of Coronavirus death rates (Obviously an early study) but it does suggest it is dangerous for elderly people with existing health problems.

    The death rate for 80 plus people is 14.8 per cent, which is very considerable

    Lower down the ages it plummets however.

    50/59 is 1.3%
    40/49 is 0.40%
    20/29 is 0.20%.

    Its an early study but those are pretty low numbers.

    The source is worldometers.info

    To put that in context, from a random google (so I haven't checked authenticity of this site) the all-cause death rate for 80-84 year olds in Us in 2017 was 6.9% male, 5.1% female; for 85 and over 14.7% and 13.0% male/female. Many many illnesses (and life itself) are dangerous for elderly people with existing health problems.
    The doctor who spoke to us this morning said that the provisional view is that adult men appear significantly more susceptible to catch the virus than women or children. The history of some of the well publicised early cases suggests this also.
    I don't think that is correct. The male/ female infection rate in China is more or less equal, but the fatality rate in males is nearly twice that of females.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/18/coronavirus-is-more-fatal-in-men-than-women-major-study-suggests.html
    Well he was the lead doctor for the regional primary care network and claimed to have just had the NHS Briefing. But you probably have just as good sources,

    In the ski chalet where the twelve of them were in close quarters for their holiday, it seems to be mostly men who came down with it?

    But maybe I misunderstood fatality rate for infection rate
  • IanB2 said:

    Chameleon said:

    The US seems to be a perfect storm for Coronavirus.

    1. Patients have to pay for healthcare -> will lead to sick people avoiding testing and treatment
    2. Large percentage of the population over 75, where mortality rises sharply to 10-15% (our 75+ is 9%, vs China 3.3%)
    3. Epidemic of low savings - people in the early stages of it may continue working trying to push through.
    4. Fractured healthcare system
    5. Massive rates of obesity. Obese people are 40% more likely to develop pneumonia, people with a BMI over 35 are more than twice as likely to develop it compared to a healthy person. This will lead to a substantially higher demand on resources.
    5. A President very keen on keeping the stock market on a short term high.
    6. Gun nuts that won't be keen on quarantine.

    The USA has three things working in its favour though:

    1: Very low population density (35 per square km in USA vs 117 per square km in EU and 274 per square km in UK)
    2: A geographically very spread out nature. The distances between US states and cities is massive compared to here, will make quarantine much easier.
    3: Much lower rates of international travel.

    If coronavirus does become an epidemic in America its more likely to affect blue states before the red ones.
    But on 1, a lot of their population is very concentrated in urban areas, and they travel about a lot. Ditto 2 - the volume of internal flights mean that the distance between cities is in itself immaterial. The virus doesn’t have to walk. On 3. it only needs a little International travel - the whole Italian thing appears to have started from one couple.
    Their population density even in urban areas (barring a few coastal cities hence my blue states remark) is lower than in our comparable urban areas. Plus they tend to drive rather than take mass transit.
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