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  • malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    She is a Tory,
    she would deport her granny,
    she has a permanent smirk ,
    and did I say she is a Tory

    PS: Her immigration policy will kill Scotland, it is the opposite of what we need.

    So nothing then.

    1 is a good thing.
    2 was her granny a serious criminal? She's only deporting criminals.
    3 is just appearances.
    4 is as I said earlier a good thing.

    PS Scotland's not an independent country, your choice not mine. Why can't Scotland find migrants from within the large pool of migrants coming to this country, or from the rest of the UK? Maybe the SNP could consider using some of its devolved powers it already has to make Scotland a more attractive place to come and live.

    Just an odd suggestion but Alaska as a cold and miserable place to live has lower taxes than the rest of the country to try and attract migrants. Has the SNP considered doing that? You could cut spending on something, lower taxes and attract people that way. Or do you only want to bitch and moan?
    Thank F**k you are not anything to do with running the country, you have no clue what you are talking about and know even less about Scotland and the fact that 95% of the taxes are reserved to the cesspit at Westminster. FFS try and bone up on the basics before uttering drivel.
    You have the ability to set your own income tax rates and bands. The SNP could try and lower income tax in Scotland to attract people to move to Scotland - they've not done that though have they?
    https://www.gov.scot/publications/devolved-taxes-policy-framework/pages/4/

    If people don't want to live in Scotland then maybe make Scotland a more attractive place to live.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,228
    edited February 2020

    Barnesian said:

    DavidL said:

    12 dead @2% = at least 600 infected, probably multiple times that because there will be many, as in China neither cured or dead. Iran are not even finding 10% of those infected right now.
    Take a look at the number of cases outside China on the logarithmic scale. (Scroll down and click on logarithmic.)

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-cases/

    You'll see that is basically a straight line. That means the growth is exponential. It is growing an order of magnitude every 20 days.

    18 Feb 1,000
    10 Mar 10,000
    30 Mar 100,000
    19 Apr 1,000,000
    9 May 10,000,000
    29 May 100,000,000
    18 Jun 1,000,000,000
    6 Jul everyone

    But this won't happen for a variety of reasons. It is worth watching this chart to see when the straight line begins to deviate in a clockwise direction. That will mean that the exponential growth is slowing down.
    The graph of death rate on that site appears to be levelling out at well above 2%.
    When the outbreak is over, the mortality rate will be known (total deaths / total confirmed cases). During the outbreak this is harder because of the period between confirmation and death/survival. The mortality rate should be calculated as total deaths (today) / confirmed cases (T days before today, where T is the incubation period).

    We have 2 problems. Firstly we don't have hard numbers on the number of confirmed cases because it is pretty clear that China is not using the same definition as everyone else and is keen to keep 'true' numbers down. Secondly we are not really sure what value to use for T (probably 14-21 days).

    The best guess will be the people from the cruise ship as we have traceability. In a period of weeks we will get a final mortality rate - probably 4-9%, but will have to remember that the passenger profile may be older, sicker and more asian (higher risk ACE2 receptor count) than the general World population.
    The Korean data is probably the best to date.

    Though of course still subject to the three week disease progression problem.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    Brexiteers turn against GDPR, despite the fact it is now UK law via DPA 2018

    https://twitter.com/DouglasCarswell/status/1232065345554460676?s=20

    Hello, I have a PhD in computing science. I have no clue what point 10 is supposed to mean.
    We want to allow Facebook and Cambridge Analytics successors to abuse the data but we need to educate the public slightly more to get away with it.

    At the moment they can say we don't understand why they are using our data, afterwards the general public will know the data is being abused but will accept their pressed the wrong option on the 8-9 negatives question...
  • kinabalu said:

    justin124 said:

    I would suggest IQ in the range of 100 - 110. Ditto Dawn Butler.

    Yes OK. That's a wrap.

    See, I can compromise.
    People often underestimate (and overestimate) IQ. 100 is the baseline for the population, but it is unlikely to be the baseline of the people you know and socialise with. Smart people socialise with other smart people, and they do it without even realising it.

    Theyll be a few MPs at between 100 and 110, but I would expect anyone who has got onto the ministerial ladder to be north of 120, anyone who has served on the front bench in opposition or in government again likely to be in this range.

    We may all laugh at Burgon and Abbott. But he's a cambridge graduate and a qualified solicitor, Abbott went to a grammar school, got into cambridge also and fast tracked into the civil service.

    These are reasonably bright individuals. We just either disagree with them or they articulate themselves poorly.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    Nigelb said:

    Barnesian said:

    DavidL said:

    12 dead @2% = at least 600 infected, probably multiple times that because there will be many, as in China neither cured or dead. Iran are not even finding 10% of those infected right now.
    Take a look at the number of cases outside China on the logarithmic scale. (Scroll down and click on logarithmic.)

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-cases/

    You'll see that is basically a straight line. That means the growth is exponential. It is growing an order of magnitude every 20 days.

    18 Feb 1,000
    10 Mar 10,000
    30 Mar 100,000
    19 Apr 1,000,000
    9 May 10,000,000
    29 May 100,000,000
    18 Jun 1,000,000,000
    6 Jul everyone

    But this won't happen for a variety of reasons. It is worth watching this chart to see when the straight line begins to deviate in a clockwise direction. That will mean that the exponential growth is slowing down.
    The graph of death rate on that site appears to be levelling out at well above 2%.
    When the outbreak is over, the mortality rate will be known (total deaths / total confirmed cases). During the outbreak this is harder because of the period between confirmation and death/survival. The mortality rate should be calculated as total deaths (today) / confirmed cases (T days before today, where T is the incubation period).

    We have 2 problems. Firstly we don't have hard numbers on the number of confirmed cases because it is pretty clear that China is not using the same definition as everyone else and is keen to keep 'true' numbers down. Secondly we are not really sure what value to use for T (probably 14-21 days).

    The best guess will be the people from the cruise ship as we have traceability. In a period of weeks we will get a final mortality rate - probably 4-9%, but will have to remember that the passenger profile may be older, sicker and more asian (higher risk ACE2 receptor count) than the general World population.
    The Korean data is probably the best to date.
    This is impressive by the chief of the Daegu Medical Society. When it hits here I hope for a similar response. I have topped up my life insurance in preparation.

    https://twitter.com/BBCLBicker/status/1232200547156946946?s=19
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,752
    On matters Scottish this is how the Mhairi Black LGBT imbroglio is being reported in one well-read local paper.

    https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/scottish-politics/2037214/a-drag-queen-with-a-history-of-explicit-social-media-posts-was-invited-to-talk-at-a-primary-school-mhairi-black-told-worried-parents-your-homophobia-is-transparent/

    As with most things SNP these days, it's helplul to interpret in the light of the nascent civil war in that party. Joanne Cherry has been mixing it on transgender issues so there is possibly more to this than meets the eye. Having said that, there is a view that Mhairi Black is just one of those politicians who is an exploded bomb. Ross Thomson, formerly SCON MP for Aberdeen S, was another such.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    She is a Tory,
    she would deport her granny,
    she has a permanent smirk ,
    and did I say she is a Tory

    PS: Her immigration policy will kill Scotland, it is the opposite of what we need.

    So nothing then.

    1 is a good thing.
    2 was her granny a serious criminal? She's only deporting criminals.
    3 is just appearances.
    4 is as I said earlier a good thing.

    PS Scotland's not an independent country, your choice not mine. Why can't Scotland find migrants from within the large pool of migrants coming to this country, or from the rest of the UK? Maybe the SNP could consider using some of its devolved powers it already has to make Scotland a more attractive place to come and live.

    Just an odd suggestion but Alaska as a cold and miserable place to live has lower taxes than the rest of the country to try and attract migrants. Has the SNP considered doing that? You could cut spending on something, lower taxes and attract people that way. Or do you only want to bitch and moan?
    Thank F**k you are not anything to do with running the country, you have no clue what you are talking about and know even less about Scotland and the fact that 95% of the taxes are reserved to the cesspit at Westminster. FFS try and bone up on the basics before uttering drivel.
    You have the ability to set your own income tax rates and bands. The SNP could try and lower income tax in Scotland to attract people to move to Scotland - they've not done that though have they?
    https://www.gov.scot/publications/devolved-taxes-policy-framework/pages/4/

    If people don't want to live in Scotland then maybe make Scotland a more attractive place to live.
    Once again you spout rubbish, 56% of people pay lower tax in Scotland than in England and if you count the extra free services it is 100%. It is only a fraction of the taxes raised as any moron would know, the rest are dictated by the dictatorship at Westminster.
    AS I said you have not a clue.
  • justin124 said:

    kinabalu said:

    You think her IQ is 99 or lower?

    Somewhere in the 90s, yes.
    I would suggest IQ in the range of 100 - 110. Ditto Dawn Butler.
    just looking her up... damn, shes fifty years old....
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222

    Barnesian said:

    DavidL said:

    12 dead @2% = at least 600 infected, probably multiple times that because there will be many, as in China neither cured or dead. Iran are not even finding 10% of those infected right now.
    Take a look at the number of cases outside China on the logarithmic scale. (Scroll down and click on logarithmic.)

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-cases/

    You'll see that is basically a straight line. That means the growth is exponential. It is growing an order of magnitude every 20 days.

    18 Feb 1,000
    10 Mar 10,000
    30 Mar 100,000
    19 Apr 1,000,000
    9 May 10,000,000
    29 May 100,000,000
    18 Jun 1,000,000,000
    6 Jul everyone

    But this won't happen for a variety of reasons. It is worth watching this chart to see when the straight line begins to deviate in a clockwise direction. That will mean that the exponential growth is slowing down.
    The graph of death rate on that site appears to be levelling out at well above 2%.
    When the outbreak is over, the mortality rate will be known (total deaths / total confirmed cases). During the outbreak this is harder because of the period between confirmation and death/survival. The mortality rate should be calculated as total deaths (today) / confirmed cases (T days before today, where T is the incubation period).

    We have 2 problems. Firstly we don't have hard numbers on the number of confirmed cases because it is pretty clear that China is not using the same definition as everyone else and is keen to keep 'true' numbers down. Secondly we are not really sure what value to use for T (probably 14-21 days).

    The best guess will be the people from the cruise ship as we have traceability. In a period of weeks we will get a final mortality rate - probably 4-9%, but will have to remember that the passenger profile may be older, sicker and more asian (higher risk ACE2 receptor count) than the general World population.
    Anyone know whether the mortality rate is higher than influenza? Is the virus, like the flu, likely to be less prevalent in summer than in winter?

    I`m just back from Northern Italy. Should I be worried (I`m not)?
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited February 2020
    kinabalu said:

    Above average but not necessarily well above. People forget the bump at the bottom owing to head injuries and the like. It depends what "well" means.

    OK, let's get numerical. I would instinctively say that the average IQ of a cabinet minister since the War is of the order 125. So top 5% of the population.

    Course this cabinet (with Patel) is bringing that down a bit.
    I frankly doubt if you are at all correct that the average IQ of a cabinet minister is of order 125) top 5 per cent.

    I don't see any evidence that high IQ helps you in politics.

    If you have a high IQ, there are many much more interesting things to do. And if you have a high IQ, you will probably already figured out that to get on in politics involves a serious amount of compromises, both to your beliefs, self-respect and private life.

    For example, that photo made 12 years ago of you taking of your trousers off at a private party (or blacking up like Justin T, or pulling on the Nazi costume like Ed Balls) is about to go viral.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Stocky said:

    Barnesian said:

    DavidL said:

    12 dead @2% = at least 600 infected, probably multiple times that because there will be many, as in China neither cured or dead. Iran are not even finding 10% of those infected right now.
    Take a look at the number of cases outside China on the logarithmic scale. (Scroll down and click on logarithmic.)

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-cases/

    You'll see that is basically a straight line. That means the growth is exponential. It is growing an order of magnitude every 20 days.

    18 Feb 1,000
    10 Mar 10,000
    30 Mar 100,000
    19 Apr 1,000,000
    9 May 10,000,000
    29 May 100,000,000
    18 Jun 1,000,000,000
    6 Jul everyone

    But this won't happen for a variety of reasons. It is worth watching this chart to see when the straight line begins to deviate in a clockwise direction. That will mean that the exponential growth is slowing down.
    The graph of death rate on that site appears to be levelling out at well above 2%.
    When the outbreak is over, the mortality rate will be known (total deaths / total confirmed cases). During the outbreak this is harder because of the period between confirmation and death/survival. The mortality rate should be calculated as total deaths (today) / confirmed cases (T days before today, where T is the incubation period).

    We have 2 problems. Firstly we don't have hard numbers on the number of confirmed cases because it is pretty clear that China is not using the same definition as everyone else and is keen to keep 'true' numbers down. Secondly we are not really sure what value to use for T (probably 14-21 days).

    The best guess will be the people from the cruise ship as we have traceability. In a period of weeks we will get a final mortality rate - probably 4-9%, but will have to remember that the passenger profile may be older, sicker and more asian (higher risk ACE2 receptor count) than the general World population.
    Anyone know whether the mortality rate is higher than influenza? Is the virus, like the flu, likely to be less prevalent in summer than in winter?

    I`m just back from Northern Italy. Should I be worried (I`m not)?
    I hope you are self isolating then
  • malcolmg said:

    kinabalu said:

    justin124 said:

    I would think so too in terms of the general population - but below the level normally expected of someone in her position.

    OK. I could just stretch to that. Bottom end of second quartile for the population as a whole. Bottom end of fourth quartile for a cabinet minister. And for a PM, a data point in her own right. A genuine outlier.
    I would say above average for population as a whole, above average for a cabinet minister and waits to be seen but would do better than at least 2 PMs of the last 13 years.
    An exceptionally nasty piece of work even by Tory standards.
    What's she done in office that's exceptionally nasty?

    * She's liberalised the elements of migration we controlled so that it is easier to get into this country.
    * She's abolished the tens of thousand target and trying to put off immigrants coming here.

    Early days yet but that is two positives in my eyes.
    Your mean she has increased (inward) Freedom of Movement?

    Another Brexit goal accomplished :D:D
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    kinabalu said:

    Above average but not necessarily well above. People forget the bump at the bottom owing to head injuries and the like. It depends what "well" means.

    OK, let's get numerical. I would instinctively say that the average IQ of a cabinet minister since the War is of the order 125. So top 5% of the population.

    Course this cabinet (with Patel) is bringing that down a bit.
    I`d say you are probably about right with regard to cabinet ministers. i`d say the same cannot be said of the average backbencher, particularly on the Labour side.

    There was a report a while back that claimed that most MPs could not give the probability of tossing two heads in a row in a fair coin toss.
  • kinabalu said:

    Above average but not necessarily well above. People forget the bump at the bottom owing to head injuries and the like. It depends what "well" means.

    OK, let's get numerical. I would instinctively say that the average IQ of a cabinet minister since the War is of the order 125. So top 5% of the population.

    Course this cabinet (with Patel) is bringing that down a bit.
    I frankly doubt if you are at all correct that the average IQ of a cabinet minister is of order 125) top 5 per cent.

    I don't see any evidence that high IQ helps you in politics.

    If you have a high IQ, there are many much more interesting things to do. And if you have a high IQ, you will probably already figured out that to get on in politics involves a serious amount of compromises, both to you beliefs, self-respect and private life.

    For example, that photo made 12 years ago of you taking of your trousers off at a private party (or blacking up like Justin T, or pulling on the Nazi costume like Ed Balls) is about to go viral.
    125 is not high in the professional classes and it would be just a little bit higher than their colleagues in parliament.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,230

    I would say above average for population as a whole, above average for a cabinet minister and waits to be seen but would do better than at least 2 PMs of the last 13 years.

    Patel brighter than at least two of Brown, Cameron, May and Johnson? You are wandering into the realm of the absurd.

    However let me throw in a positive observation because I don't wish to be Mr Snarky on this. It is not her fault that she is not gifted with a powerful intellect and that she has risen to where she has with this handicap is in many ways truly admirable.

    I personally do NOT admire her but her deficiency up top is not the reason for this.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    edited February 2020
    nichomar said:

    Stocky said:

    Barnesian said:

    DavidL said:

    12 dead @2% = at least 600 infected, probably multiple times that because there will be many, as in China neither cured or dead. Iran are not even finding 10% of those infected right now.
    Take a look at the number of cases outside China on the logarithmic scale. (Scroll down and click on logarithmic.)

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-cases/

    You'll see that is basically a straight line. That means the growth is exponential. It is growing an order of magnitude every 20 days.

    18 Feb 1,000
    10 Mar 10,000
    30 Mar 100,000
    19 Apr 1,000,000
    9 May 10,000,000
    29 May 100,000,000
    18 Jun 1,000,000,000
    6 Jul everyone

    But this won't happen for a variety of reasons. It is worth watching this chart to see when the straight line begins to deviate in a clockwise direction. That will mean that the exponential growth is slowing down.
    The graph of death rate on that site appears to be levelling out at well above 2%.
    When the outbreak is over, the mortality rate will be known (total deaths / total confirmed cases). During the outbreak this is harder because of the period between confirmation and death/survival. The mortality rate should be calculated as total deaths (today) / confirmed cases (T days before today, where T is the incubation period).

    We have 2 problems. Firstly we don't have hard numbers on the number of confirmed cases because it is pretty clear that China is not using the same definition as everyone else and is keen to keep 'true' numbers down. Secondly we are not really sure what value to use for T (probably 14-21 days).

    The best guess will be the people from the cruise ship as we have traceability. In a period of weeks we will get a final mortality rate - probably 4-9%, but will have to remember that the passenger profile may be older, sicker and more asian (higher risk ACE2 receptor count) than the general World population.
    Anyone know whether the mortality rate is higher than influenza? Is the virus, like the flu, likely to be less prevalent in summer than in winter?

    I`m just back from Northern Italy. Should I be worried (I`m not)?
    I hope you are self isolating then
    Not from one of the lockdown towns, Gov guidance says no need to self-isolate unless having symptoms.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,230
    malcolmg said:

    Getting a bit personal there I think

    Not compared to Ian!
  • kinabalu said:

    I would say above average for population as a whole, above average for a cabinet minister and waits to be seen but would do better than at least 2 PMs of the last 13 years.

    Patel brighter than at least two of Brown, Cameron, May and Johnson? You are wandering into the realm of the absurd.

    However let me throw in a positive observation because I don't wish to be Mr Snarky on this. It is not her fault that she is not gifted with a powerful intellect and that she has risen to where she has with this handicap is in many ways truly admirable.

    I personally do NOT admire her but her deficiency up top is not the reason for this.
    I said she would do better [as PM] than Brown and May.

    You're just being nasty, you've still not given any reason you think she is lacking in intellect.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,752
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    She is a Tory,
    she would deport her granny,
    she has a permanent smirk ,
    and did I say she is a Tory

    PS: Her immigration policy will kill Scotland, it is the opposite of what we need.

    So nothing then.

    1 is a good thing.
    2 was her granny a serious criminal? She's only deporting criminals.
    3 is just appearances.
    4 is as I said earlier a good thing.

    PS Scotland's not an independent country, your choice not mine. Why can't Scotland find migrants from within the large pool of migrants coming to this country, or from the rest of the UK? Maybe the SNP could consider using some of its devolved powers it already has to make Scotland a more attractive place to come and live.

    Just an odd suggestion but Alaska as a cold and miserable place to live has lower taxes than the rest of the country to try and attract migrants. Has the SNP considered doing that? You could cut spending on something, lower taxes and attract people that way. Or do you only want to bitch and moan?
    Thank F**k you are not anything to do with running the country, you have no clue what you are talking about and know even less about Scotland and the fact that 95% of the taxes are reserved to the cesspit at Westminster. FFS try and bone up on the basics before uttering drivel.
    You have the ability to set your own income tax rates and bands. The SNP could try and lower income tax in Scotland to attract people to move to Scotland - they've not done that though have they?
    https://www.gov.scot/publications/devolved-taxes-policy-framework/pages/4/

    If people don't want to live in Scotland then maybe make Scotland a more attractive place to live.
    Once again you spout rubbish, 56% of people pay lower tax in Scotland than in England and if you count the extra free services it is 100%. It is only a fraction of the taxes raised as any moron would know, the rest are dictated by the dictatorship at Westminster.
    AS I said you have not a clue.
    Couple of points here:
    1) It is literally just a couple of quid per annum for the 56%. For upper earners the difference is far more significant. Given that Scotland has a paucity of big-time tax-payers contributing to the tax base, this is an issue as the country needs more of these people, not fewer.
    2) The "free services" are due entirely to the Barnett Consequentials providing ScotGov with well over £1000 pa per person to spend, more than south of the border. This is spent not on helping the poor and needy, but focused on providing target voter groups with freebies such as free tuition fees which are overwhelmingly trousered by the middle classes

    Malc forgot to mention so I thought I would help.
  • malcolmg said:

    kinabalu said:

    justin124 said:

    I would think so too in terms of the general population - but below the level normally expected of someone in her position.

    OK. I could just stretch to that. Bottom end of second quartile for the population as a whole. Bottom end of fourth quartile for a cabinet minister. And for a PM, a data point in her own right. A genuine outlier.
    I would say above average for population as a whole, above average for a cabinet minister and waits to be seen but would do better than at least 2 PMs of the last 13 years.
    An exceptionally nasty piece of work even by Tory standards.
    What's she done in office that's exceptionally nasty?

    * She's liberalised the elements of migration we controlled so that it is easier to get into this country.
    * She's abolished the tens of thousand target and trying to put off immigrants coming here.

    Early days yet but that is two positives in my eyes.
    Your mean she has increased (inward) Freedom of Movement?

    Another Brexit goal accomplished :D:D
    No, she has liberalised controlled migration - as she argued for during the referendum campaign!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    kinabalu said:

    malcolmg said:

    Getting a bit personal there I think

    Not compared to Ian!
    Lol.

    I admire people with principles, and like to think I am one of them myself.

    I also admire people with the flexibility to take a stance on each issue as it comes, and the intellectual agility to reconcile new positions with the old.

    I can't abide people who pretend to have principles but turn out to be hypocrites.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609

    kinabalu said:

    Above average but not necessarily well above. People forget the bump at the bottom owing to head injuries and the like. It depends what "well" means.

    OK, let's get numerical. I would instinctively say that the average IQ of a cabinet minister since the War is of the order 125. So top 5% of the population.

    Course this cabinet (with Patel) is bringing that down a bit.
    I frankly doubt if you are at all correct that the average IQ of a cabinet minister is of order 125) top 5 per cent.

    I don't see any evidence that high IQ helps you in politics.

    If you have a high IQ, there are many much more interesting things to do. And if you have a high IQ, you will probably already figured out that to get on in politics involves a serious amount of compromises, both to your beliefs, self-respect and private life.

    For example, that photo made 12 years ago of you taking of your trousers off at a private party (or blacking up like Justin T, or pulling on the Nazi costume like Ed Balls) is about to go viral.
    Not to mention that drunken encounter you had with SeanT on pb.com that time.....
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,230
    malcolmg said:

    You have to be joking , the amount of donkeys we had in Cameron;'s time would drop the average into single figures alone.

    Won't quibble on the donkeys bit. But surely the current ones make the bunch under Cameron look like gleaming, muscled thoroughbreds.
  • malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    She is a Tory,
    she would deport her granny,
    she has a permanent smirk ,
    and did I say she is a Tory

    PS: Her immigration policy will kill Scotland, it is the opposite of what we need.

    So nothing then.

    1 is a good thing.
    2 was her granny a serious criminal? She's only deporting criminals.
    3 is just appearances.
    4 is as I said earlier a good thing.

    PS Scotland's not an independent country, your choice not mine. Why can't Scotland find migrants from within the large pool of migrants coming to this country, or from the rest of the UK? Maybe the SNP could consider using some of its devolved powers it already has to make Scotland a more attractive place to come and live.

    Just an odd suggestion but Alaska as a cold and miserable place to live has lower taxes than the rest of the country to try and attract migrants. Has the SNP considered doing that? You could cut spending on something, lower taxes and attract people that way. Or do you only want to bitch and moan?
    Thank F**k you are not anything to do with running the country, you have no clue what you are talking about and know even less about Scotland and the fact that 95% of the taxes are reserved to the cesspit at Westminster. FFS try and bone up on the basics before uttering drivel.
    You have the ability to set your own income tax rates and bands. The SNP could try and lower income tax in Scotland to attract people to move to Scotland - they've not done that though have they?
    https://www.gov.scot/publications/devolved-taxes-policy-framework/pages/4/

    If people don't want to live in Scotland then maybe make Scotland a more attractive place to live.
    Once again you spout rubbish, 56% of people pay lower tax in Scotland than in England and if you count the extra free services it is 100%. It is only a fraction of the taxes raised as any moron would know, the rest are dictated by the dictatorship at Westminster.
    AS I said you have not a clue.
    How much less Malc? Go on, tell us......

    £1,000?
    £500?
    £100?
    £50?
    £20 - but only if you’re on £15,000

    Yippee! A whole 38p per week.

    £33k - £58 MORE
    £50k - £1,542 MORE

    And as for “free university tuition” - great job keeping Scottish kids out of Scottish universities - and “free prescriptions” simply extends the 80% of free scrips from those who can’t afford them and the elderly (like in rUK) to another 20% who can. Great middle class bung!
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    On matters Scottish this is how the Mhairi Black LGBT imbroglio is being reported in one well-read local paper.

    https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/scottish-politics/2037214/a-drag-queen-with-a-history-of-explicit-social-media-posts-was-invited-to-talk-at-a-primary-school-mhairi-black-told-worried-parents-your-homophobia-is-transparent/

    As with most things SNP these days, it's helplul to interpret in the light of the nascent civil war in that party. Joanne Cherry has been mixing it on transgender issues so there is possibly more to this than meets the eye. Having said that, there is a view that Mhairi Black is just one of those politicians who is an exploded bomb. Ross Thomson, formerly SCON MP for Aberdeen S, was another such.

    Nah, Mhairi Black is quality.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    Mullahs not imposing quarantine in Iran.
    Also, Mike Pompeo: "The United States is deeply concerned by information indicating the Iranian regime may have suppressed vital details about the outbreak in that country"
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172



    125 is not high in the professional classes and it would be just a little bit higher than their colleagues in parliament.

    What is the evidence for high IQs in "the professional classes" ?

    Have you ever employed a solicitor? The ones I have employed compare unfavourably to primitive unicellular organisms.

    As for politicians, they have room temperature IQs.

    On the other hand, my builder easily explained a question that I put to him about how the sun rises and sets twice each day on planet Mercury.

    You seem to have escaped from a Punch cartoon from the 1920s with your awed talk of "professional classes".
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,210
    The abstract value of free higher education is abso-fugging lubtely huge for the average couple with a kid around uni age.
    Council tax looks lower there than certainly Nottinghamshire too.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,230
    edited February 2020

    I said she would do better [as PM] than Brown and May.

    You're just being nasty, you've still not given any reason you think she is lacking in intellect.

    Ah OK, so you meant "do better" as PM, regardless of intelligence. Fair enough. My mistake.

    No, I'm not being nasty. Topic was Patel as PM and in that context her weak intellect (for a senior politician) is relevant.

    How to prove that she is none too bright? Tricky one. What I suggest is we start a petition - #letstestpriti - that if we get the threshold number of signatures and it passes in parliament will require her to take an IQ test - strictly and independently invigilated - with the results made public.

    There. Nothing nasty about that, is there?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    geoffw said:

    Mullahs not imposing quarantine in Iran.
    Also, Mike Pompeo: "The United States is deeply concerned by information indicating the Iranian regime may have suppressed vital details about the outbreak in that country"

    Some are being fairly open about it. In developing countries quarantine and testing will be very challenging.

    https://twitter.com/Rover829/status/1232299322122756096?s=19
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    kinabalu said:

    I said she would do better [as PM] than Brown and May.

    You're just being nasty, you've still not given any reason you think she is lacking in intellect.

    Ah OK, so you meant "do better" as PM, regardless of intelligence. Fair enough. My mistake.

    No, I'm not being nasty. Topic was Patel as PM and in that context her weak intellect (for a senior politician) is relevant.

    How to prove that she is none too bright? Tricky one. What I suggest is we start a petition - #letstestpriti - that if we get the threshold number of signatures and it passes in parliament will require her to take an IQ test - strictly and independently invigilated - with the results made public.

    There. Nothing nasty about that, is there?
    puerile

  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,316

    IshmaelZ said:
    Cheshire? Ski trip? Is the patient called Tarquin or Jemima?
    My perfectly ordinary state secondary school in Cheshire had an annual ski trip. It was in a very Tory constituency though.
  • On a more positive note:

    Shares in US biotech firm Moderna have surged by 20% in early trading in New York.

    Last night, the Boston-based firm became the first company to release a potential coronavirus vaccine, which it has sent to the US National Institutes of Health to be tested in humans.


    There will be others as well. That's a stunningly fast response. Obviously it will have to go through the regulatory and testing hurdles, but it's an encouraging start.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2020/feb/25/stock-market-sell-off-coronavirus-companies-croda-dow-ftse-business-live (14:41)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,230
    edited February 2020
    Stocky said:

    I`d say you are probably about right with regard to cabinet ministers. i`d say the same cannot be said of the average backbencher, particularly on the Labour side.

    There was a report a while back that claimed that most MPs could not give the probability of tossing two heads in a row in a fair coin toss.

    I would go more 110/115 for backbenchers. Don't know how Con v Lab would stack up. Maybe Con would have an edge but there's Francois, remember.

    And, yes, maths - and particularly probability theory - is a gaping hole in the mental armoury of many quite bright people, I find, MPs or otherwise.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,228

    On a more positive note:

    Shares in US biotech firm Moderna have surged by 20% in early trading in New York.

    Last night, the Boston-based firm became the first company to release a potential coronavirus vaccine, which it has sent to the US National Institutes of Health to be tested in humans.


    There will be others as well. That's a stunningly fast response. Obviously it will have to go through the regulatory and testing hurdles, but it's an encouraging start.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2020/feb/25/stock-market-sell-off-coronavirus-companies-croda-dow-ftse-business-live (14:41)

    China also claims to have developed an oral vaccine.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    kinabalu said:



    How to prove that she is none too bright? Tricky one. What I suggest is we start a petition - #letstestpriti - that if we get the threshold number of signatures and it passes in parliament will require her to take an IQ test - strictly and independently invigilated - with the results made public.

    There. Nothing nasty about that, is there?

    Do you even have to be bright to be successful in politics? Is it even helpful?

    There are probably much more valuable assets in politics -- likability, empathy, charm, good looks, a sense of humour, ability to deal with people (especially difficult ones), ability to listen.

    They are much more likely to ensure that you get elected in the first place, and then prosper.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,230
    edited February 2020

    I frankly doubt if you are at all correct that the average IQ of a cabinet minister is of order 125) top 5 per cent.

    I don't see any evidence that high IQ helps you in politics.

    If you have a high IQ, there are many much more interesting things to do. And if you have a high IQ, you will probably already figured out that to get on in politics involves a serious amount of compromises, both to your beliefs, self-respect and private life.

    For example, that photo made 12 years ago of you taking of your trousers off at a private party (or blacking up like Justin T, or pulling on the Nazi costume like Ed Balls) is about to go viral.

    You think there are lots of jobs more interesting than cabinet minister?
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    kinabalu said:



    You really think there are lots of jobs more interesting than cabinet minister?

    Absolutely.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited February 2020
    Foxy said:

    geoffw said:

    Mullahs not imposing quarantine in Iran.
    Also, Mike Pompeo: "The United States is deeply concerned by information indicating the Iranian regime may have suppressed vital details about the outbreak in that country"

    Some are being fairly open about it. In developing countries quarantine and testing will be very challenging.

    https://twitter.com/Rover829/status/1232299322122756096?s=19
    A bit of an extreme response! Sure Iranians haven’t mistranslated “Coronavirus” with “Stage 4 cancer”?

    Why would Iran be experiencing high levels of corona virus, even without much state response? A lot of Iran/China travel? I would have thought Iran would be one of the later affected?
  • A discussion about politicians' intelligence without mention of Su Tung-Po? For shame.

    On the Birth of a Son
    By Su Tung-Po

    Translated by Arthur Waley

    Families when a child is born
    Hope it will turn out intelligent.
    I, through intelligence
    Having wrecked my whole life,
    Only hope that the baby will prove
    Ignorant and stupid.
    Then he'll be happy all his days
    And grow into a cabinet minister.
  • Phil said:

    IshmaelZ said:
    Cheshire? Ski trip? Is the patient called Tarquin or Jemima?
    My perfectly ordinary state secondary school in Cheshire had an annual ski trip. It was in a very Tory constituency though.
    Yes, my crap comprehensive also did ski trips. Although one was called off early when two of the girls sneaked out of their hotel room to meet up with some Italian waiters.
  • kinabalu said:

    I am not a fan of Priti Patel and shudder at the thought of her being PM. She is too right wing for me and her immigration proposals will need amending in several areas

    +1

    But I must ask you something in the light of your "Boris" history.

    Would you swing behind her if - god forbid - she somehow gets there?
    No - I think she is too abrasive and I do not expect she will be able to keep to the wage restrictions in the agriculture, care and hospitality sectors

    Also it is too much to expect Scons to accept without some adjustments to their needs to win over Scots voters
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,230
    Stocky said:

    Anyone know whether the mortality rate is higher than influenza? Is the virus, like the flu, likely to be less prevalent in summer than in winter?

    I`m just back from Northern Italy. Should I be worried (I`m not)?

    If you feel any flu like symptoms following your trip the instruction from Matt Hancock (IQ 125) is to stay inside your home for 14 days.

    Skivers charter, when you think about it. Just call up work and say the Health Secretary has done you a sick note.

    But anyway, I'm sure all is OK.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,228
    edited February 2020
    Stocky said:



    When the outbreak is over, the mortality rate will be known (total deaths / total confirmed cases). During the outbreak this is harder because of the period between confirmation and death/survival. The mortality rate should be calculated as total deaths (today) / confirmed cases (T days before today, where T is the incubation period).

    We have 2 problems. Firstly we don't have hard numbers on the number of confirmed cases because it is pretty clear that China is not using the same definition as everyone else and is keen to keep 'true' numbers down. Secondly we are not really sure what value to use for T (probably 14-21 days).

    The best guess will be the people from the cruise ship as we have traceability. In a period of weeks we will get a final mortality rate - probably 4-9%, but will have to remember that the passenger profile may be older, sicker and more asian (higher risk ACE2 receptor count) than the general World population.

    Anyone know whether the mortality rate is higher than influenza? Is the virus, like the flu, likely to be less prevalent in summer than in winter?

    I`m just back from Northern Italy. Should I be worried (I`m not)?
    The mortality rate is (probably) somewhere between one and two percent, so an order of magnitude greater than the flu. Whether the virus is capable of infecting the population in as widespread a manner is an open question.

    Depending where you've been in N Italy, the government is advising you to self-isolate for a couple of weeks if you feel a bit sniffy...
    Hancock told Sky News:

    We don’t think there are any Brits in the area that has been quarantined by the Italian government but the government does not track where people move around Europe, so if people are in that area then they should get in contact and we will do what we can to help.

    He said travelling to southern Italy would be “perfectly reasonable”, but he was not planning to travel to the north of the country amid what he described as a “significant outbreak” of the coronavirus.

    We have not changed the official government travel advice but I’m not planning on going.

    If people go and then they come back and feel ill with flu-like symptoms then we are asking them to self-isolate and stay at home for two weeks and try not to come into contact with anybody else.

    So that is obviously quite a significant imposition on people, we get that, but of course the top priority is to keep the public safe...
    (Guardian)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    The Good Lady Wifi has blagged a VIP back-stage pass for this tonight. While I'm on a panel in Cardiff.

    Grrr........

    https://lwtheatres.co.uk/whats-on/peter-green-tribute/
  • IanB2 said:

    malcolmg said:

    CatMan said:

    Pity the poor Priti Patel
    twitter.com/Simon_Nixon/status/1232202926329909248?s=19

    The civil service should be careful not to overplay their hand. In Patel they may be unwittingly creating a rival to Johnson down the line.
    What? You mean another vacuous, policy-free politician who plays to the popular audience whilst Rome burns?
    I suspect Patel would play to the 'popular audience' even more than the current PM. Quite a bit more, actually.
    Maybe she could provide the "creative destruction" so craved by the madder "advisors" clustering around Johnson? I suspect that after those two clowns, the UK would unrecognisable from its current (or former) self.
    Look I'm not a Patel supporter, my only point is it could happen. If Johnson is seen to be a trimmer, a backslider or a 'betrayer' and loses his way, then attention could fall on a high profile 'full fat' alternative. Someone who is 'one of us'. And Patel is all of that.

    I am not saying Patel cannot take over from Johnson. She could do so.

    I am saying it would be a disaster for the country.
    The Tory fanboy right wingers on here will love her though, will be having wet dreams about her being PM and deporting all and sundry whilst locking up the remainder of the non Tories etc.
    I am not a fan of Priti Patel and shudder at the thought of her being PM. She is too right wing for me and her immigration proposals will need amending in several areas
    Oh Dear.

    You'll start by threatening to resign if ever she gets the job.

    Then there'll be a leadership election, she'll throw her hat into the ring, and you'll be scrabbling around trying to shift the problem onto some particular policy matter.

    Then she'll become leader and we'll find you still a member of the party.

    Within a month or two you'll turn into her biggest cheerleader. Because of course the thought of Starmer PM was so very terrible.

    A few months later the particular policy will be heading for implementation and you'll be cheering it on.

    We've been here before.
    I resent your tone and can say absolutely Priti Patel would not get my vote for PM.

    It is like saying I would back HYUFD for PM. They are both too right for me and the only reason I support Boris is that he is a liberal, apart from Brexit

    On this I can give an absolute guarantee
  • Regarding the discussions around the IQ of politicians.

    I have spent a lot of time around councillors, of all political persuasions, in local government, some of whom have gone on to be MPs (a few quite prominent ones) and MEPs. Some have been former MPs winding down in local government.

    Some have been very smart. Some have been thick as mince. Some have impressed me. Some have repelled me. Some are nice people. Some would quite cheerfully throttle close relatives, puppies or kittens for the tiniest sliver of advancement, status or power.

    What I dislike about all politicians of any stripe, any IQ, is their tribalism and their willingness to spout what they usually know is garbage in an attempt to either get elected, or to climb the ranks in their particular party. And I am perhaps more repelled by those who know perfectly well what they're spouting is garbage, rather than the mouth breathers who sincerely believe every word of the garbage they are spouting - this kind of politician does exist, and does get worryingly far quite often.

    The intelligent ones will spout the garbage they think their voters/party members (both of whom are generally held in utter contempt) want to hear, and come over as thick as a diver's clog to anyone of moderate intelligence.

    Apologies to Nick Palmer. Perhaps I am slightly cynical.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359

    kinabalu said:

    Above average but not necessarily well above. People forget the bump at the bottom owing to head injuries and the like. It depends what "well" means.

    OK, let's get numerical. I would instinctively say that the average IQ of a cabinet minister since the War is of the order 125. So top 5% of the population.

    Course this cabinet (with Patel) is bringing that down a bit.
    I frankly doubt if you are at all correct that the average IQ of a cabinet minister is of order 125) top 5 per cent.

    I don't see any evidence that high IQ helps you in politics.

    If you have a high IQ, there are many much more interesting things to do. And if you have a high IQ, you will probably already figured out that to get on in politics involves a serious amount of compromises, both to you beliefs, self-respect and private life.

    For example, that photo made 12 years ago of you taking of your trousers off at a private party (or blacking up like Justin T, or pulling on the Nazi costume like Ed Balls) is about to go viral.
    125 is not high in the professional classes and it would be just a little bit higher than their colleagues in parliament.
    Plenty of absolutely thick people with high IQ's , many of them are as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,228
    alex_ said:

    Foxy said:

    geoffw said:

    Mullahs not imposing quarantine in Iran.
    Also, Mike Pompeo: "The United States is deeply concerned by information indicating the Iranian regime may have suppressed vital details about the outbreak in that country"

    Some are being fairly open about it. In developing countries quarantine and testing will be very challenging.

    https://twitter.com/Rover829/status/1232299322122756096?s=19
    A bit of an extreme response! Sure Iranians haven’t mistranslated “Coronavirus” with “Stage 4 cancer”?

    Why would Iran be experiencing high levels of corona virus, even without much state response? A lot of Iran/China travel? I would have thought Iran would be one of the later affected?
    Given their propensity for religious gatherings of large numbers of people in relatively confined spaces, an outbreak similar to the Korean one, but unaddressed, could quite easily have resulted in large scale infection starting off with a single carrier.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    I`d say you are probably about right with regard to cabinet ministers. i`d say the same cannot be said of the average backbencher, particularly on the Labour side.

    There was a report a while back that claimed that most MPs could not give the probability of tossing two heads in a row in a fair coin toss.

    I would go more 110/115 for backbenchers. Don't know how Con v Lab would stack up. Maybe Con would have an edge but there's Francois, remember.

    And, yes, maths - and particularly probability theory - is a gaping hole in the mental armoury of many quite bright people, I find, MPs or otherwise.
    I just knew that you would mention Francois.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,230
    edited February 2020

    People often underestimate (and overestimate) IQ. 100 is the baseline for the population, but it is unlikely to be the baseline of the people you know and socialise with. Smart people socialise with other smart people, and they do it without even realising it.

    Theyll be a few MPs at between 100 and 110, but I would expect anyone who has got onto the ministerial ladder to be north of 120, anyone who has served on the front bench in opposition or in government again likely to be in this range.

    We may all laugh at Burgon and Abbott. But he's a cambridge graduate and a qualified solicitor, Abbott went to a grammar school, got into cambridge also and fast tracked into the civil service.

    These are reasonably bright individuals. We just either disagree with them or they articulate themselves poorly.

    Spot on summary. And I don't laugh at Burgon or Abbott. I don't laugh at Patel either - who I do genuinely think is of unusually low intellect for a senior politician. I didn't bring this up apropos of nothing. It's just that people were speculating about her prospects for one day becoming our Prime Minister. I know!

    Anyway, we seem to have a consensus on this now involving posters of all persuasions. Probably time to move on.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,228
    This is going to be an interesting test of the new chair of the Treasury select committee (I don't expect much reaction from the Chancellor):
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/feb/25/gina-miller-andrew-bailey-bank-england-governor-fca
    Campaigners led by Gina Miller are demanding the chancellor launch an independent review into Andrew Bailey’s appointment as Bank of England governor, saying his tenure at the Financial Conduct Authority was characterised by a “toxic cocktail of negligence, incompetence and indifference” that allowed a string of financial scandals to go unchecked.

    The group has written to the chancellor, Rishi Sunak, and the head of the Treasury select committee, Conservative MP Mel Stride, saying Bailey must answer questions over scandals that wiped out the savings of small investors during his watch as the chief executive of the City regulator.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Nigelb said:

    This is going to be an interesting test of the new chair of the Treasury select committee (I don't expect much reaction from the Chancellor):
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/feb/25/gina-miller-andrew-bailey-bank-england-governor-fca
    Campaigners led by Gina Miller are demanding the chancellor launch an independent review into Andrew Bailey’s appointment as Bank of England governor, saying his tenure at the Financial Conduct Authority was characterised by a “toxic cocktail of negligence, incompetence and indifference” that allowed a string of financial scandals to go unchecked.

    The group has written to the chancellor, Rishi Sunak, and the head of the Treasury select committee, Conservative MP Mel Stride, saying Bailey must answer questions over scandals that wiped out the savings of small investors during his watch as the chief executive of the City regulator.

    Is she still at it?

    :D
  • Mr. B, if Miller's recent history to such action is a guide I'd expect Bailey's appointment to be withdrawn, and for him to shortly thereafter become Prime Minister.

    She's almost the living spirit of the Pyrrhic victory.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    Nigelb said:

    This is going to be an interesting test of the new chair of the Treasury select committee (I don't expect much reaction from the Chancellor):
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/feb/25/gina-miller-andrew-bailey-bank-england-governor-fca
    Campaigners led by Gina Miller are demanding the chancellor launch an independent review into Andrew Bailey’s appointment as Bank of England governor, saying his tenure at the Financial Conduct Authority was characterised by a “toxic cocktail of negligence, incompetence and indifference” that allowed a string of financial scandals to go unchecked.

    The group has written to the chancellor, Rishi Sunak, and the head of the Treasury select committee, Conservative MP Mel Stride, saying Bailey must answer questions over scandals that wiped out the savings of small investors during his watch as the chief executive of the City regulator.

    I don't expect much reaction from Mel Stride either. I doubt Andrew Bailey is seen as "Javid's man".
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Foxy said:

    geoffw said:

    Mullahs not imposing quarantine in Iran.
    Also, Mike Pompeo: "The United States is deeply concerned by information indicating the Iranian regime may have suppressed vital details about the outbreak in that country"

    Some are being fairly open about it. In developing countries quarantine and testing will be very challenging.

    https://twitter.com/Rover829/status/1232299322122756096?s=19
    Given the low mortality rate, isn't that a bit pessimistic?
  • Mr. D, to be fair, he never said he expected to die because of the virus...
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    RobD said:

    Foxy said:

    geoffw said:

    Mullahs not imposing quarantine in Iran.
    Also, Mike Pompeo: "The United States is deeply concerned by information indicating the Iranian regime may have suppressed vital details about the outbreak in that country"

    Some are being fairly open about it. In developing countries quarantine and testing will be very challenging.

    https://twitter.com/Rover829/status/1232299322122756096?s=19
    Given the low mortality rate, isn't that a bit pessimistic?
    Maybe its just bants.
  • I resent your tone and can say absolutely Priti Patel would not get my vote for PM.

    It is like saying I would back HYUFD for PM. They are both too right for me and the only reason I support Boris is that he is a liberal, apart from Brexit

    On this I can give an absolute guarantee

    Can you please answer my question earlier about why precisely she is "too right wing" when she has liberalised dramatically our (controlled elements of our) immigration policy?

    You happily backed Theresa May who was banging on about how immigrants were a drain on this country and needed to see their numbers cut to the tens of thousands. Patel hasn't done that!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    RobD said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is going to be an interesting test of the new chair of the Treasury select committee (I don't expect much reaction from the Chancellor):
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/feb/25/gina-miller-andrew-bailey-bank-england-governor-fca
    Campaigners led by Gina Miller are demanding the chancellor launch an independent review into Andrew Bailey’s appointment as Bank of England governor, saying his tenure at the Financial Conduct Authority was characterised by a “toxic cocktail of negligence, incompetence and indifference” that allowed a string of financial scandals to go unchecked.

    The group has written to the chancellor, Rishi Sunak, and the head of the Treasury select committee, Conservative MP Mel Stride, saying Bailey must answer questions over scandals that wiped out the savings of small investors during his watch as the chief executive of the City regulator.

    Is she still at it?

    :D
    The Devil will make work for idle hands to do....
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,230
    Stocky said:

    I just knew that you would mention Francois.

    Yes, sorry. I bang on about us gang bullying certain MPs (e.g. Burgon) and then I slip into it myself. A lapse which will not be repeated.
  • The Good Lady Wifi has blagged a VIP back-stage pass for this tonight. While I'm on a panel in Cardiff.

    Grrr........

    https://lwtheatres.co.uk/whats-on/peter-green-tribute/

    I love that autocorrect :grin:
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,230

    Regarding the discussions around the IQ of politicians.

    I have spent a lot of time around councillors, of all political persuasions, in local government, some of whom have gone on to be MPs (a few quite prominent ones) and MEPs. Some have been former MPs winding down in local government.

    Some have been very smart. Some have been thick as mince. Some have impressed me. Some have repelled me. Some are nice people. Some would quite cheerfully throttle close relatives, puppies or kittens for the tiniest sliver of advancement, status or power.

    What I dislike about all politicians of any stripe, any IQ, is their tribalism and their willingness to spout what they usually know is garbage in an attempt to either get elected, or to climb the ranks in their particular party. And I am perhaps more repelled by those who know perfectly well what they're spouting is garbage, rather than the mouth breathers who sincerely believe every word of the garbage they are spouting - this kind of politician does exist, and does get worryingly far quite often.

    The intelligent ones will spout the garbage they think their voters/party members (both of whom are generally held in utter contempt) want to hear, and come over as thick as a diver's clog to anyone of moderate intelligence.

    Apologies to Nick Palmer. Perhaps I am slightly cynical.

    +1

    This is relevant to, say, racism.

    (i) Not a racist but dog whistles in order to appeal to racists.

    (ii) A genuine racist.

    IMO, looking at politicians and media types, either it doesn't matter which you are, they are equally bad, or if anything (i) is more reprehensible.
  • eadric said:

    Oh yes, and can we please stop it with the coronovirusbetting,com, its meaningless fearmongering, and we should be discussing the, er, fuck it, er, yeah, care home wage policy for the next 5-7 fiscal years

    To be fair, the extent of the pandemic and the future demand for care-home places are related issues.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    I`d say you are probably about right with regard to cabinet ministers. i`d say the same cannot be said of the average backbencher, particularly on the Labour side.

    There was a report a while back that claimed that most MPs could not give the probability of tossing two heads in a row in a fair coin toss.

    I would go more 110/115 for backbenchers. Don't know how Con v Lab would stack up. Maybe Con would have an edge but there's Francois, remember.

    Don’t forget Bridgen. And that Graham Brady is presumably considered on the “bright” side these days.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609

    The Good Lady Wifi has blagged a VIP back-stage pass for this tonight. While I'm on a panel in Cardiff.

    Grrr........

    https://lwtheatres.co.uk/whats-on/peter-green-tribute/

    I love that autocorrect :grin:
    Not autocorrect. Like Wifi, she gets everywhere......
  • eadric said:

    Oh yes, and can we please stop it with the coronovirusbetting,com, its meaningless fearmongering, and we should be discussing the, er, fuck it, er, yeah, care home wage policy for the next 5-7 fiscal years

    What? You have been the Panic-Spreader-in-Chief around here for the last few weeks.
  • What I dislike about all politicians of any stripe, any IQ, is their tribalism and their willingness to spout what they usually know is garbage in an attempt to either get elected, or to climb the ranks in their particular party. And I am perhaps more repelled by those who know perfectly well what they're spouting is garbage, rather than the mouth breathers who sincerely believe every word of the garbage they are spouting - this kind of politician does exist, and does get worryingly far quite often.

    The intelligent ones will spout the garbage they think their voters/party members (both of whom are generally held in utter contempt) want to hear, and come over as thick as a diver's clog to anyone of moderate intelligence.

    I need a +100 for that post
  • I resent your tone and can say absolutely Priti Patel would not get my vote for PM.

    It is like saying I would back HYUFD for PM. They are both too right for me and the only reason I support Boris is that he is a liberal, apart from Brexit

    On this I can give an absolute guarantee

    Can you please answer my question earlier about why precisely she is "too right wing" when she has liberalised dramatically our (controlled elements of our) immigration policy?

    You happily backed Theresa May who was banging on about how immigrants were a drain on this country and needed to see their numbers cut to the tens of thousands. Patel hasn't done that!
    The strict rules on unskilled immigration is going to have a negative effect on the agriculture, care and hospitality sectors and cause problems for Scons

    She is on the right of the party and I was not content with her behaviour last time she was in the cabinet

    By the time a vacancy comes along I expect there will be several candidates that will eclipse Priti Patel
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    RobD said:

    Foxy said:

    geoffw said:

    Mullahs not imposing quarantine in Iran.
    Also, Mike Pompeo: "The United States is deeply concerned by information indicating the Iranian regime may have suppressed vital details about the outbreak in that country"

    Some are being fairly open about it. In developing countries quarantine and testing will be very challenging.

    https://twitter.com/Rover829/status/1232299322122756096?s=19
    Given the low mortality rate, isn't that a bit pessimistic?
    Do we know how old he is? or if he has other medical conditions e.g. diabetes?

    But yes it does seem a bit pessimistic given the range of likely mortality rates?

    Talking of which, do we have any 'credible expert' estimating the mortality rate?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898



    There's an argument to be made (I don't buy it, but I get it can be made) to say x and mean x. However Cameron and May said x and never once got close to x - so even that argument is moot!

    Furthermore I've not once heard Johnson and Patel "pretend there's a tough new policy on immigration" - quite the opposite, all I hear them talk about is that it is controlled. It was Cameron and May who were banging on about being tough and banging on about tens of thousands while leaving the door completely open.

    Nobody would reasonably deny that the Aussies and Canadians control migration - but they also have more migrants per capita than we do. I'd rather control quality than try and put off numbers.

    The quality vs numbers question heads right to the heart of this question and the two principal facets of migration. There are migrants whose skills we need because we have insufficient here but that covers a gamut of areas from specialist professional disciplines to labouring (we have 3.6% unemployment and for all Patel's assertions about 8 million "economically inactive" people, are we going to drag the sick and the elderly onto building sites and teach them bricklaying? I think not).

    Whether we like it or not, we have shortages at the high skills end and the low skills end. The former are generally welcomed with open arms, the latter less so but both contribute to economic growth so business would argue.

    However, a decade and a half of low-skill migration from the EU hasn't been without its consequences and there's a trade off here between economic growth and social cohesion.

    Slamming the door on low skill migration runs the risk of blunting economic growth and leading to wage inflation - you know that and I know that. If, however, in trying to maintain economic growth, the perception is the door is still open to mass immigration there will be a political price for Patel and Johnson to pay.
  • NEW THREAD

  • On politicians spouting tosh:

    a lot of that is because of the ruinous way our media works. Any disagreement is a split, or a challenge to authority. An interview is about scalp-hunting more than holding politicians to account.

    The freedom of expression has been curtailed because anything else at all is reported as 'civil war' or 'dissent'. The way the media barely scrutinises legislation but is obsessed with personalities and a soap opera prism is wretched.
  • Regarding the discussions around the IQ of politicians.

    I have spent a lot of time around councillors, of all political persuasions, in local government, some of whom have gone on to be MPs (a few quite prominent ones) and MEPs. Some have been former MPs winding down in local government.

    Some have been very smart. Some have been thick as mince. Some have impressed me. Some have repelled me. Some are nice people. Some would quite cheerfully throttle close relatives, puppies or kittens for the tiniest sliver of advancement, status or power.

    What I dislike about all politicians of any stripe, any IQ, is their tribalism and their willingness to spout what they usually know is garbage in an attempt to either get elected, or to climb the ranks in their particular party. And I am perhaps more repelled by those who know perfectly well what they're spouting is garbage, rather than the mouth breathers who sincerely believe every word of the garbage they are spouting - this kind of politician does exist, and does get worryingly far quite often.

    The intelligent ones will spout the garbage they think their voters/party members (both of whom are generally held in utter contempt) want to hear, and come over as thick as a diver's clog to anyone of moderate intelligence.

    Apologies to Nick Palmer. Perhaps I am slightly cynical.

    The problem is the ones who don't spout garbage don't get elected. There is a disconnect between the types of politician voters say they want, and the ones they actually vote for.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Rather taken aback to read the news re-David Steel again. I have always thought of him as 'a good man' in the true sense of the term.
  • eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Oh yes, and can we please stop it with the coronovirusbetting,com, its meaningless fearmongering, and we should be discussing the, er, fuck it, er, yeah, care home wage policy for the next 5-7 fiscal years

    To be fair, the extent of the pandemic and the future demand for care-home places are related issues.
    You were one of the worst

    "Oh it's just a couple of deaths in Europe, it's not news"

    Literally the next day the markets collapsed and every klaxon in the planet was sounded.

    I am allowed one day of smug gloating. This is it. You are all a bunch of trainspotting twits with outrageous normalcy bias, and you should have seen this coming, as I did.

    At the same time, I am happy to confess that Yes, I am a risk seeking wolf-cryer, who gets off sexually on danger and panic, so I was bound to get one right in the end.

    I hope you adjusted your ample portfolio, Richard.
    Last week, you were asking why the media weren't placing the virus on the front pages and lead news items. I told you: there wasn't much new to report. Now there is, and so the media are giving it a lot of attention. I'm not sure why you find this 'news' malarkey so hard to understand; the key is in the word.

    I haven't adjusted my portfolio, partly because it is well diversified, but mainly because it's a long-term portfolio and I'm not the sort to panic over short-term nominal price changes. It is extremely hard to time entry and exit from a given market correctly, and nearly all people who try to end up making things worse.

    Having said that, anyone with cash to invest is probably better off waiting a bit.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,230
    edited February 2020

    Absolutely.

    I'd agree if we're talking about the arts and science, academia, crafts, stuff like that. But in the realms of white collar? No, not for me. Perhaps I'm warped by having had a "City career". That, trust me, is not very interesting. Stressful, yes. Lucrative, yes. And occasionally lurid. But essentially boring. Being an MP would be much more intellectually stimulating, I'm sure, let alone being in the cabinet. Not, I hasten to add, that I have any of the key qualities required for such a role. Still, different people find different things interesting, don't they? But I would have thought, being a regular on here, that you would consider politics to be one of those things.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,230

    No - I think she is too abrasive and I do not expect she will be able to keep to the wage restrictions in the agriculture, care and hospitality sectors

    Also it is too much to expect Scons to accept without some adjustments to their needs to win over Scots voters

    I do not think there is much chance that you are put to the test on this one, TBH.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,230

    Do you even have to be bright to be successful in politics? Is it even helpful?

    There are probably much more valuable assets in politics -- likability, empathy, charm, good looks, a sense of humour, ability to deal with people (especially difficult ones), ability to listen.

    They are much more likely to ensure that you get elected in the first place, and then prosper.

    Think it IS helpful but, yes, so many other things are in the mix. To yours I would add -

    Robustness. Energy. Confidence. Diligence.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,230
    geoffw said:

    puerile

    Exactly.
  • MonkeysMonkeys Posts: 757
    Probably a good day to buy stonks as you'll either make a decent profit or we'll all die of coronavirus and it won't matter anyway.
  • eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Oh yes, and can we please stop it with the coronovirusbetting,com, its meaningless fearmongering, and we should be discussing the, er, fuck it, er, yeah, care home wage policy for the next 5-7 fiscal years

    What? You have been the Panic-Spreader-in-Chief around here for the last few weeks.
    OMG it's a fucking joke. Jesus Christ
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misinformation_related_to_the_2019–20_coronavirus_outbreak
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,019
    kinabalu said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Ah so it’s because she’s a Conservative.

    Nope. I am not in the habit of disparaging the intellect of Conservative politicians.

    Lots of very clever ones. But not the current Home Secretary. I sense you know this.
    She's no dumber than the Foreign Secretary...
This discussion has been closed.