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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Get ready for Bernie to feel the heat over threatening Obama’s

SystemSystem Posts: 12,170
edited February 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Get ready for Bernie to feel the heat over threatening Obama’s re-election at WH2012

So for in this fight for the Democratic nomination the current front manner, Bernie Sanders has escaped being the one the other candidates most like to attack. Last week in the pre-Nevada debate it was Michael Bloomberg who came under fire for his apparent attempts to use his billions to, as was described, buy the election.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited February 2020
    https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1230235966507339776?s=20
    https://twitter.com/IsaacDovere/status/1230185314725044224?s=20
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1232229343243448320?s=20
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    Anyone else find the music in that video rather funky and upbeat for such a negative message?

    I do wonder what Sanders was thinking if he really did consider a challenge. Obama was an incrementalist but the chance of beating him in 2012 was so slim compared to the chance of spiking him in the general.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited February 2020
    FPT
    CarlottaVance said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    The drag artist was brought to the school by an SNP MP Mhairi Black - who has called critics of her move homophobes. Presumably this includes SNP MSPs and the local council.

    The issue is not just "a man in drag" (why is drag appropriate for LGBT issues, doesn't it simply reinforce stereotypes?) but this man in drag - to discuss "Section 28" introduced when he was age 4 and Ms Black age 1 - wouldn't it have been better to have someone who could discuss real life experience?

    Why does "this" man in drag matter? People have a right to a private life
    What you post on Instagram and Twitter is not part of your "private life". Unless you think children don't know how to use the internet.
    I believe preschool children should have supervised and restricted access to child-safe portions of the internet yes, which does not include X-rated Instagram or Twitter or porn sites etc - unless the story reading included a hyperlink to the Instagram or Twitter pages then no the preschool children should not be going there, so its moot.

    As I said earlier, I allow my only daughters to go on Youtube for kids with two of their favourite performers in the past being a child's entertainer who previously made viral videos of himself defecating . . . and a child's entertainer who was formerly a pornstar.

    Now I don't want my children watching scatological or pornographic materials. But so long as the videos they're watching are child friendly and the men or women doing the videos they're watching keeps the YouTube videos clean and doesn't send them from YouTube to YouPorn then I'm content that private life is private - and for kids then private internet is private too.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    Too late and Biden hanging around looking old and confused has really not helped. The Democratic nomination looks wrapped up to me. Too many in the party unable to see beyond their own selfish egotistic interests.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    That is a really weak attack ad on Sanders. Far more effective is all that mentioned last night in regards to his support of all the "positive" things Castro did for Cuba.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    DavidL said:

    Too late and Biden hanging around looking old and confused has really not helped. The Democratic nomination looks wrapped up to me. Too many in the party unable to see beyond their own selfish egotistic interests.

    Bloomberg is worse, this strategy of conceding the early races doesn't help you win, but it makes it hard for you to conclusively lose, so not only do you knock yourself out, you also knock out anyone else who half agrees with you.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    Biden is and was probably the only candidate that can stop Sanders. Still.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited February 2020
    I think this stuff is much worse:

    https://twitter.com/DelanoTeddy/status/1232242468642385920/photo/1
    (It's genuine, right??? I just saw it on the Twitter, I don't vouch for it)

    In context it doesn't reflect particularly badly on him, but it immediately smacks you with the force of the ickiness, and it's hard to get through enough of it to get the context without losing the will to live.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    edmundintokyo said:

    I think this stuff is much worse:

    https://twitter.com/DelanoTeddy/status/1232242468642385920/photo/1
    (It's genuine, right??? I just saw it on the Twitter, I don't vouch for it)

    In context it doesn't reflect particularly badly on him, but it immediately smacks you with the force of the ickiness, and it's hard to get through enough of it to get the context without losing the will to live.

    This Tweet is unavailable.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    Pulpstar said:

    Biden is and was probably the only candidate that can stop Sanders. Still.

    Agree. And his age helps him here: Also it's much easier for him to stitch up a deal with the next-strongest candidate because they have such a good chance of a VP job turning into the President job.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,604
    DavidL said:

    Too late and Biden hanging around looking old and confused has really not helped. The Democratic nomination looks wrapped up to me. Too many in the party unable to see beyond their own selfish egotistic interests.

    I agree. The ad seems ineffective to me. Sanders didn't actually stand against Obama in a primary. Yes he challenged Obama on not being brave enough on some policies. Many who admire Obama may feel the same. It's well known that Sanders is more radical than Obama.

    However I think that Biden will win the SC primary. But I'm not an Afro-Amerian living in South Carolina so who knows.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    Pulpstar said:

    edmundintokyo said:

    I think this stuff is much worse:

    https://twitter.com/DelanoTeddy/status/1232242468642385920/photo/1
    (It's genuine, right??? I just saw it on the Twitter, I don't vouch for it)

    In context it doesn't reflect particularly badly on him, but it immediately smacks you with the force of the ickiness, and it's hard to get through enough of it to get the context without losing the will to live.

    This Tweet is unavailable.
    Sorry, try doing a twitter search for
    bernie rape essay

    (It's an essay about rape, he didn't rape an essay)
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    YBarddCwsc said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Cyclefree said:

    YBarddCwsc said:

    Cyclefree said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    YBarddCwsc said:


    I did not know, and am astonished to find out, that Harvey Weinstein was awarded a CBE in 2004 for "services to the British film industry".

    Who comes up with these ideas?

    Was this yet another Tony Blair sleaze wheeze?

    Sir James Wilson Vincent Savile OBE KCSG says hello. You only know what you know, when you know it.
    Roman Polanski - who was given plenty of honours long after his rape of an under-age child was known about.
    Polanski's movies deserve honours. Chinatown is a masterpiece.

    I think it is fine to honour the movie-making.
    Then by the same token presumably it is fine to honour Weinstein’s movie-making. He was a very good successful producer after all and lots of his films won awards.

    My point is that Weinstein is now rightly shunned for his criminal and disgusting behaviour. Polanski, OTOH, has not been, despite his own criminal and disgusting behaviour. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to people’s reactions.
    That’s one reason I’ll take no lectures from Hollywood celebs.

    They’ll excuse anything if it helps their own careers.
    It is difficult to see how actresses associated with Weinstein like Meryl Streep could have been completely unaware of what seems to have been common knowledge in Hollywood for at least a decade.

    At least Quentin Tarantino has admitted that he should have done more.

    There must be many people associated with Miramax who must have known -- and enabled -- this criminality.
    Weinstein used his position money and reputation to intiidate people from going public with what they knew. The threat of a very expensive law suit and suddenly finding that there are no jobs available in the film industry is enough to dissuade most people from blowing the whistle.

    If only one woman had made her public allegations against Weinstein, I think it is unlikely that the case would have come to court. Because several women with strong cases went public *and* many others lacking enough evidence for a court case also went public that a sucessful prosecution was possible.

    Although "Not blowing the whistle" is bad, I can also understand it, and think it is harsh to criticise peope for keeping quiet.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464
    eristdoof said:

    YBarddCwsc said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Cyclefree said:

    YBarddCwsc said:

    Cyclefree said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    YBarddCwsc said:


    I did not know, and am astonished to find out, that Harvey Weinstein was awarded a CBE in 2004 for "services to the British film industry".

    Who comes up with these ideas?

    Was this yet another Tony Blair sleaze wheeze?

    Sir James Wilson Vincent Savile OBE KCSG says hello. You only know what you know, when you know it.
    Roman Polanski - who was given plenty of honours long after his rape of an under-age child was known about.
    Polanski's movies deserve honours. Chinatown is a masterpiece.

    I think it is fine to honour the movie-making.
    Then by the same token presumably it is fine to honour Weinstein’s movie-making. He was a very good successful producer after all and lots of his films won awards.

    My point is that Weinstein is now rightly shunned for his criminal and disgusting behaviour. Polanski, OTOH, has not been, despite his own criminal and disgusting behaviour. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to people’s reactions.
    That’s one reason I’ll take no lectures from Hollywood celebs.

    They’ll excuse anything if it helps their own careers.
    It is difficult to see how actresses associated with Weinstein like Meryl Streep could have been completely unaware of what seems to have been common knowledge in Hollywood for at least a decade.

    At least Quentin Tarantino has admitted that he should have done more.

    There must be many people associated with Miramax who must have known -- and enabled -- this criminality.
    Weinstein used his position money and reputation to intiidate people from going public with what they knew. The threat of a very expensive law suit and suddenly finding that there are no jobs available in the film industry is enough to dissuade most people from blowing the whistle.

    If only one woman had made her public allegations against Weinstein, I think it is unlikely that the case would have come to court. Because several women with strong cases went public *and* many others lacking enough evidence for a court case also went public that a sucessful prosecution was possible.

    Although "Not blowing the whistle" is bad, I can also understand it, and think it is harsh to criticise peope for keeping quiet.
    I'm sure that's right. Applies in many other circumstances too. Telford Hospital, for example.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    edmundintokyo said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Biden is and was probably the only candidate that can stop Sanders. Still.

    Agree. And his age helps him here: Also it's much easier for him to stitch up a deal with the next-strongest candidate because they have such a good chance of a VP job turning into the President job.
    Would Warren want to run on a Biden ticket though ?
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    Barnesian said:

    DavidL said:

    Too late and Biden hanging around looking old and confused has really not helped. The Democratic nomination looks wrapped up to me. Too many in the party unable to see beyond their own selfish egotistic interests.

    I agree. The ad seems ineffective to me. Sanders didn't actually stand against Obama in a primary. Yes he challenged Obama on not being brave enough on some policies. Many who admire Obama may feel the same. It's well known that Sanders is more radical than Obama.

    However I think that Biden will win the SC primary. But I'm not an Afro-Amerian living in South Carolina so who knows.
    It is not unusal for there to be half hearted attempts in a primary running against an incumbent, that fizzle out before or soon after the first few states have voted. This is not usually seen as a direct attack on the president, and probably gives a small boost and publicity to the incumbent.

    I can't see this having much effect on votes for Sanders, and any switched votes will go to Warren or Buttigieg or Klobuchar or Biden, so Biden will hardly benefit at all. If it really backfires, a few extra votes to Klobuchar or Buttigieg to push them over the 15% hurdle could actually decrease Biden's delegate count.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited February 2020
    Pulpstar said:

    edmundintokyo said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Biden is and was probably the only candidate that can stop Sanders. Still.

    Agree. And his age helps him here: Also it's much easier for him to stitch up a deal with the next-strongest candidate because they have such a good chance of a VP job turning into the President job.
    Would Warren want to run on a Biden ticket though ?
    I was thinking more of Buttigieg but yes, at this point I think she'd take that deal, at least if she thought it would win.

    Apparently she was very pragmatic with Hillary - agreed not to run against her, but gave her a very specific list of people she required the administration to employ... She'd have a lot of influence, and like I say the actuarial odds would be pretty great...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    That is a really weak attack ad on Sanders. Far more effective is all that mentioned last night in regards to his support of all the "positive" things Castro did for Cuba.

    President Obama: “I said this to President Castro...you've made great progress in educating young people....Medical care, the life expectancy of Cubans is equivalent to the United States...That's a huge achievement. They should be congratulated."pic.twitter.com/3HTJw2Ek08 https://t.co/XWTneqIFHd

    — Waleed Shahid (@_waleedshahid) February 24, 2020
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    "We won the argument":

    Since 2015, under Jeremy Corbyn, the party has experienced its worst ever result in elections to the Scottish Parliament, its worst ever share of the vote at any European Parliament election, the worst sets of local election results for any opposition party in recent times, and two consecutive general election defeats.

    Brexit, the 2019 General Election and the Realignment of British Politics
    David Cutts Matthew Goodwin Oliver Heath Paula Surridge

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1467-923X.12815
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    edited February 2020
    Mike sees the light -

    “There is a guy, @BernieSanders, who would have beaten Donald Trump.” -@MikeBloomberg pic.twitter.com/fr9LoroLQI

    — Waleed Shahid (@_waleedshahid) February 6, 2020
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    kinabalu said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    That is a really weak attack ad on Sanders. Far more effective is all that mentioned last night in regards to his support of all the "positive" things Castro did for Cuba.

    President Obama: “I said this to President Castro...you've made great progress in educating young people....Medical care, the life expectancy of Cubans is equivalent to the United States...That's a huge achievement. They should be congratulated."pic.twitter.com/3HTJw2Ek08 https://t.co/XWTneqIFHd

    — Waleed Shahid (@_waleedshahid) February 24, 2020
    But like Jezza, Bernie can be tied to support to all sorts of really dodgy regimes that he has waxed lyrical about. Obama wasn't perceived like that. A bit like the claims that Boris / Russia report stuff didn't stick, but Corbyn stuff over Salisbury etc did.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    edmundintokyo said:

    I think this stuff is much worse:

    https://twitter.com/DelanoTeddy/status/1232242468642385920/photo/1
    (It's genuine, right??? I just saw it on the Twitter, I don't vouch for it)

    In context it doesn't reflect particularly badly on him, but it immediately smacks you with the force of the ickiness, and it's hard to get through enough of it to get the context without losing the will to live.

    It is genuine, though Sanders now says that it was an attempt to satirise gender roles in society. In any case his campaign makes no attempt to defend it as having merit.

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bernie-sanders-essay/
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    kinabalu said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    That is a really weak attack ad on Sanders. Far more effective is all that mentioned last night in regards to his support of all the "positive" things Castro did for Cuba.

    President Obama: “I said this to President Castro...you've made great progress in educating young people....Medical care, the life expectancy of Cubans is equivalent to the United States...That's a huge achievement. They should be congratulated."pic.twitter.com/3HTJw2Ek08 https://t.co/XWTneqIFHd

    — Waleed Shahid (@_waleedshahid) February 24, 2020
    Nobel Peace Prize winners can say that stuff. They're expected to. It's how you get the Nobel Prize.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,060
    Pity the poor Priti Patel
    https://twitter.com/Simon_Nixon/status/1232202926329909248?s=19
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    edited February 2020
    MarqueeMark said:

    kinabalu said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    That is a really weak attack ad on Sanders. Far more effective is all that mentioned last night in regards to his support of all the "positive" things Castro did for Cuba.

    President Obama: “I said this to President Castro...you've made great progress in educating young people....Medical care, the life expectancy of Cubans is equivalent to the United States...That's a huge achievement. They should be congratulated."pic.twitter.com/3HTJw2Ek08 https://t.co/XWTneqIFHd

    — Waleed Shahid (@_waleedshahid) February 24, 2020
    Nobel Peace Prize winners can say that stuff. They're expected to. It's how you get the Nobel Prize.
    Your comment says nothing about people who have not won the Nobel Peace Prize, you and Bernie Sanders included.
  • northernpowerhouse2northernpowerhouse2 Posts: 190
    edited February 2020
    MarqueeMark said:

    kinabalu said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    That is a really weak attack ad on Sanders. Far more effective is all that mentioned last night in regards to his support of all the "positive" things Castro did for Cuba.

    President Obama: “I said this to President Castro...you've made great progress in educating young people....Medical care, the life expectancy of Cubans is equivalent to the United States...That's a huge achievement. They should be congratulated."pic.twitter.com/3HTJw2Ek08 https://t.co/XWTneqIFHd

    — Waleed Shahid (@_waleedshahid) February 24, 2020
    Nobel Peace Prize winners can say that stuff. They're expected to. It's how you get the Nobel Prize.

    --------------------------
    Didnt he get the prize before he had actually entered office? Rather embarrassingly. Why yes, he is better than the person that followed him, but no better than many that preceded him. Distinctly average is been generous.
  • Awb682Awb682 Posts: 22
    'one of its great heroes, Obama.'

    Tells you all you need to know about the Democrats.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    CatMan said:

    Pity the poor Priti Patel
    https://twitter.com/Simon_Nixon/status/1232202926329909248?s=19

    The civil service should be careful not to overplay their hand. In Patel they may be unwittingly creating a rival to Johnson down the line.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    eristdoof said:

    YBarddCwsc said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Cyclefree said:

    YBarddCwsc said:

    Cyclefree said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    YBarddCwsc said:


    I did not know, and am astonished to find out, that Harvey Weinstein was awarded a CBE in 2004 for "services to the British film industry".

    Who comes up with these ideas?

    Was this yet another Tony Blair sleaze wheeze?

    Sir James Wilson Vincent Savile OBE KCSG says hello. You only know what you know, when you know it.
    Roman Polanski - who was given plenty of honours long after his rape of an under-age child was known about.
    Polanski's movies deserve honours. Chinatown is a masterpiece.

    I think it is fine to honour the movie-making.
    Then by the same token presumably it is fine to honour Weinstein’s movie-making. He was a very good successful producer after all and lots of his films won awards.

    My point is that Weinstein is now rightly shunned for his criminal and disgusting behaviour. Polanski, OTOH, has not been, despite his own criminal and disgusting behaviour. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to people’s reactions.
    That’s one reason I’ll take no lectures from Hollywood celebs.

    They’ll excuse anything if it helps their own careers.
    It is difficult to see how actresses associated with Weinstein like Meryl Streep could have been completely unaware of what seems to have been common knowledge in Hollywood for at least a decade.

    At least Quentin Tarantino has admitted that he should have done more.

    There must be many people associated with Miramax who must have known -- and enabled -- this criminality.
    Weinstein used his position money and reputation to intiidate people from going public with what they knew. The threat of a very expensive law suit and suddenly finding that there are no jobs available in the film industry is enough to dissuade most people from blowing the whistle.

    If only one woman had made her public allegations against Weinstein, I think it is unlikely that the case would have come to court. Because several women with strong cases went public *and* many others lacking enough evidence for a court case also went public that a sucessful prosecution was possible.

    Although "Not blowing the whistle" is bad, I can also understand it, and think it is harsh to criticise peope for keeping quiet.
    It is - though I doubt Tarantino would have risked much had he done something.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,880
    Pulpstar said:

    edmundintokyo said:

    I think this stuff is much worse:

    https://twitter.com/DelanoTeddy/status/1232242468642385920/photo/1
    (It's genuine, right??? I just saw it on the Twitter, I don't vouch for it)

    In context it doesn't reflect particularly badly on him, but it immediately smacks you with the force of the ickiness, and it's hard to get through enough of it to get the context without losing the will to live.

    This Tweet is unavailable.
    "Did somebody say Just Tweet?"
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    kinabalu said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    That is a really weak attack ad on Sanders. Far more effective is all that mentioned last night in regards to his support of all the "positive" things Castro did for Cuba.

    President Obama: “I said this to President Castro...you've made great progress in educating young people....Medical care, the life expectancy of Cubans is equivalent to the United States...That's a huge achievement. They should be congratulated."pic.twitter.com/3HTJw2Ek08 https://t.co/XWTneqIFHd

    — Waleed Shahid (@_waleedshahid) February 24, 2020
    And Venezuela, Nicaragua, Bolivia...

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/24/florida-dems-uproar-sanders-cuba-comments-117213
    Last year, Ulvert conducted a poll that showed 68 percent of the Hispanic-heavy Miami-Dade electorate overall — and 65 percent of Hispanics — in the county said they would be less likely to favor a candidate who is aligned with Sanders or his ally, New York Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Only 13 percent of Hispanics and 28 percent of voters overall favored Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez. However, 92 percent of self-identified progressives in the county said they would be more likely to support a candidate aligned with the two.

    “I can’t even talk about Bernie Sanders around my family,” Ulvert, who isn’t backing another candidate, said. “My family was literally chased out of Nicaragua by Daniel Ortega. They think someone who embraces a thug who chased out democracy from Nicaragua is appalling, and that’s putting it lightly.”...
  • northernpowerhouse2northernpowerhouse2 Posts: 190
    kinabalu said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    That is a really weak attack ad on Sanders. Far more effective is all that mentioned last night in regards to his support of all the "positive" things Castro did for Cuba.

    President Obama: “I said this to President Castro...you've made great progress in educating young people....Medical care, the life expectancy of Cubans is equivalent to the United States...That's a huge achievement. They should be congratulated."pic.twitter.com/3HTJw2Ek08 https://t.co/XWTneqIFHd

    — Waleed Shahid (@_waleedshahid) February 24, 2020
    You can pick any regime and find positive things that happened even if the whole was a nightmare. The infamous "trains ran on time" under the Italian fascist administration, full employment in the German Reich, the rapid transformation from agrarian peasant economies in the soviet union and china to industrialised powers.

    If you forget about the oppression, mass murder, internment, secret police, corruption with cultural, social and economic stagnation.

    The internal requirements of a state to enforce behaviour counter to natural human behaviour, and inhibit further radicalism against the new status quo results in all of the above.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    https://twitter.com/shashj/status/1232271237608615938?s=21
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    CatMan said:

    Pity the poor Priti Patel
    https://twitter.com/Simon_Nixon/status/1232202926329909248?s=19

    'Long established offices', between twenty and fifty years ago...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humphry_Wakefield

  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,680
    Nigelb said:

    CatMan said:

    Pity the poor Priti Patel
    https://twitter.com/Simon_Nixon/status/1232202926329909248?s=19

    'Long established offices', between twenty and fifty years ago...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humphry_Wakefield

    I see he attended Gordonstoun school. Isn't that where Prince Charles was bullied mercilessly?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    The curious thing about the eve of Nevada debate was how few direct attacks on Sanders there were, and how feeble they were, especially given his front runner status.

    And given the ammunition he provides, one can easily make a strong case against his electability.

    On 'socialism', while it might not be a liability in seeking the Democratic nomination, it almost certainly will be in the general election:
    https://news.gallup.com/poll/285563/socialism-atheism-political-liabilities.aspx

    Similarly, on foreign policy, while there is strong appeal for progressives, that might not translate at all well in some key states:
    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/24/florida-dems-uproar-sanders-cuba-comments-117213

    And as for the economy, he admits himself he has no idea what his programmes would cost (though in the age of Trump deficits, that charge might carry less force...):
    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/24/politics/bernie-sanders-donald-trump-2020/index.html

    If the other candidates aren't simply bowing to the inevitable, then I would expect him to be in for a bumpy ride.
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,152
    contrarian said:

    CatMan said:

    Pity the poor Priti Patel
    https://twitter.com/Simon_Nixon/status/1232202926329909248?s=19

    The civil service should be careful not to overplay their hand. In Patel they may be unwittingly creating a rival to Johnson down the line.
    Bloody civil service.

    No doubt one of those dismal pen-pushers said to her in 2017, "You know, madam, it may be considered somewhat 'brave' to pursue a shadow foreign policy in Israel behind the PM's back, and then lie about it. The more usual protocol, and one conducive to good governance, might be not to do that".

    Well, she showed them.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464
    Just walked past our local Chinese takeaway. Guy who looked as if he might work there was outside coughing.

    Er...........
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    contrarian said:

    CatMan said:

    Pity the poor Priti Patel
    twitter.com/Simon_Nixon/status/1232202926329909248?s=19

    The civil service should be careful not to overplay their hand. In Patel they may be unwittingly creating a rival to Johnson down the line.
    What? You mean another vacuous, policy-free politician who plays to the popular audience whilst Rome burns?
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,680
    Surely this behaviour is de rigueur in the desolate north.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/25/tory-mp-james-grundy-apologises-after-exposing-himself-in-pub

    The man has nothing to apolgize for!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    Fox on the box (again) but OFF Twitter -

    Do you feel sorry for Laurence Fox? The actor, who caused a row on Question Time when he said attacks on him as "a privileged white male" were racism, has now come off Twitter because he says the abuse he gets every day is making him depressed. #JeremyVine pic.twitter.com/0E5cabPDjv

    — Jeremy Vine On 5 (@JeremyVineOn5) February 25, 2020
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    OldKingCole said:

    Just walked past our local Chinese takeaway. Guy who looked as if he might work there was outside coughing.

    Er...........

    I would guess most known cases in this country are elderly whiteys (because Diamond Princess) so he should be more scared of you than vice versa.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Beibheirli_C said:

    contrarian said:

    CatMan said:

    Pity the poor Priti Patel
    twitter.com/Simon_Nixon/status/1232202926329909248?s=19

    The civil service should be careful not to overplay their hand. In Patel they may be unwittingly creating a rival to Johnson down the line.
    What? You mean another vacuous, policy-free politician who plays to the popular audience whilst Rome burns?
    I suspect Patel would play to the 'popular audience' even more than the current PM. Quite a bit more, actually.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Stark_Dawning said:

    Surely this behaviour is de rigueur in the desolate north.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/25/tory-mp-james-grundy-apologises-after-exposing-himself-in-pub

    The man has nothing to apolgize for!

    What a dick
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    contrarian said:

    Beibheirli_C said:

    contrarian said:

    CatMan said:

    Pity the poor Priti Patel
    twitter.com/Simon_Nixon/status/1232202926329909248?s=19

    The civil service should be careful not to overplay their hand. In Patel they may be unwittingly creating a rival to Johnson down the line.
    What? You mean another vacuous, policy-free politician who plays to the popular audience whilst Rome burns?
    I suspect Patel would play to the 'popular audience' even more than the current PM. Quite a bit more, actually.
    Maybe she could provide the "creative destruction" so craved by the madder "advisors" clustering around Johnson? I suspect that after those two clowns, the UK would unrecognisable from its current (or former) self.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    Stark_Dawning said:

    Surely this behaviour is de rigueur in the desolate north.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/25/tory-mp-james-grundy-apologises-after-exposing-himself-in-pub

    The man has nothing to apolgize for!

    Why? Did he have nothing to show? :D:D
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359
    CarlottaVance said:

    https://twitter.com/shashj/status/1232271237608615938?s=21

    He has the Tory disease of being a serial lying toerag.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Nigelb said:

    The curious thing about the eve of Nevada debate was how few direct attacks on Sanders there were, and how feeble they were, especially given his front runner status.

    And given the ammunition he provides, one can easily make a strong case against his electability.

    On 'socialism', while it might not be a liability in seeking the Democratic nomination, it almost certainly will be in the general election:
    https://news.gallup.com/poll/285563/socialism-atheism-political-liabilities.aspx

    Similarly, on foreign policy, while there is strong appeal for progressives, that might not translate at all well in some key states:
    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/24/florida-dems-uproar-sanders-cuba-comments-117213

    And as for the economy, he admits himself he has no idea what his programmes would cost (though in the age of Trump deficits, that charge might carry less force...):
    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/24/politics/bernie-sanders-donald-trump-2020/index.html

    If the other candidates aren't simply bowing to the inevitable, then I would expect him to be in for a bumpy ride.

    I saw some analysis that Sanders policy programme would at least double the national debt of the US in just a few years.

    Even if we buy his tries to claim his healthcare plan wouldn't really cost any money, because of all the savings from better health outcomes and forcing lower drug prices, so many of his other polices are massively expensive, even the small stuff e.g. 50% pay rise for starting salary of all teachers.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Beibheirli_C said:

    contrarian said:

    Beibheirli_C said:

    contrarian said:

    CatMan said:

    Pity the poor Priti Patel
    twitter.com/Simon_Nixon/status/1232202926329909248?s=19

    The civil service should be careful not to overplay their hand. In Patel they may be unwittingly creating a rival to Johnson down the line.
    What? You mean another vacuous, policy-free politician who plays to the popular audience whilst Rome burns?
    I suspect Patel would play to the 'popular audience' even more than the current PM. Quite a bit more, actually.
    Maybe she could provide the "creative destruction" so craved by the madder "advisors" clustering around Johnson? I suspect that after those two clowns, the UK would unrecognisable from its current (or former) self.
    Look I'm not a Patel supporter, my only point is it could happen. If Johnson is seen to be a trimmer, a backslider or a 'betrayer' and loses his way, then attention could fall on a high profile 'full fat' alternative. Someone who is 'one of us'. And Patel is all of that.

  • northernpowerhouse2northernpowerhouse2 Posts: 190
    kinabalu said:

    Fox on the box (again) but OFF Twitter -

    Do you feel sorry for Laurence Fox? The actor, who caused a row on Question Time when he said attacks on him as "a privileged white male" were racism, has now come off Twitter because he says the abuse he gets every day is making him depressed. #JeremyVine pic.twitter.com/0E5cabPDjv

    — Jeremy Vine On 5 (@JeremyVineOn5) February 25, 2020
    He did what he did to provoke. And good on him, he has highlighted how far down the rabbit hole the nutters are with absurd claims about white supremacy etc and critical race theory festering in our institutions.

    But it seems clear that he was lining things up, comedy circuit, bands etc.

    He lit the fireworks. He doesnt deserve the abuse but he knew it would be coming.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Stark_Dawning said:

    Surely this behaviour is de rigueur in the desolate north.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/25/tory-mp-james-grundy-apologises-after-exposing-himself-in-pub

    The man has nothing to apolgize for!

    The misleading headline makes it sound like an MP has just gone around exposing himself to unwilling people.

    Not that when he was young well over a decade before becoming an MP he exposed himself to a woman *after she asked him to do so*.

    File under young and stupid and move on. I'm glad all my youthful indiscretions weren't on camera.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    contrarian said:

    CatMan said:

    Pity the poor Priti Patel
    https://twitter.com/Simon_Nixon/status/1232202926329909248?s=19

    The civil service should be careful not to overplay their hand. In Patel they may be unwittingly creating a rival to Johnson down the line.
    Indeed, if Boris loses the next general election I would make Priti Patel favourite to be next Tory leader and leader of the opposition to PM Starmer
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    I have to say I think I am more worried about outbreak of the virus in Iran than in China. For all the many faults of the Chinese regime, if there is one thing they are good at is taking swift coordinated action on a mass scale. I don't see Iran building hospitals in 2 weeks, ramping up mass production of medical supplies or managing to enforce a ban to keep 10's of millions of people off the streets.
  • northernpowerhouse2northernpowerhouse2 Posts: 190
    contrarian said:

    Beibheirli_C said:

    contrarian said:

    Beibheirli_C said:

    contrarian said:

    CatMan said:

    Pity the poor Priti Patel
    twitter.com/Simon_Nixon/status/1232202926329909248?s=19

    The civil service should be careful not to overplay their hand. In Patel they may be unwittingly creating a rival to Johnson down the line.
    What? You mean another vacuous, policy-free politician who plays to the popular audience whilst Rome burns?
    I suspect Patel would play to the 'popular audience' even more than the current PM. Quite a bit more, actually.
    Maybe she could provide the "creative destruction" so craved by the madder "advisors" clustering around Johnson? I suspect that after those two clowns, the UK would unrecognisable from its current (or former) self.
    Look I'm not a Patel supporter, my only point is it could happen. If Johnson is seen to be a trimmer, a backslider or a 'betrayer' and loses his way, then attention could fall on a high profile 'full fat' alternative. Someone who is 'one of us'. And Patel is all of that.

    That look on her face in the photo of her with the police carrying out an immigration raid is borderline pornographic.

    The left will lose their shit again if the first BAME PM is a tory.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    contrarian said:

    Beibheirli_C said:

    contrarian said:

    Beibheirli_C said:

    contrarian said:

    CatMan said:

    Pity the poor Priti Patel
    twitter.com/Simon_Nixon/status/1232202926329909248?s=19

    The civil service should be careful not to overplay their hand. In Patel they may be unwittingly creating a rival to Johnson down the line.
    What? You mean another vacuous, policy-free politician who plays to the popular audience whilst Rome burns?
    I suspect Patel would play to the 'popular audience' even more than the current PM. Quite a bit more, actually.
    Maybe she could provide the "creative destruction" so craved by the madder "advisors" clustering around Johnson? I suspect that after those two clowns, the UK would unrecognisable from its current (or former) self.
    Look I'm not a Patel supporter, my only point is it could happen. If Johnson is seen to be a trimmer, a backslider or a 'betrayer' and loses his way, then attention could fall on a high profile 'full fat' alternative. Someone who is 'one of us'. And Patel is all of that.

    I am not saying Patel cannot take over from Johnson. She could do so.

    I am saying it would be a disaster for the country.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited February 2020
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    Surely this behaviour is de rigueur in the desolate north.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/25/tory-mp-james-grundy-apologises-after-exposing-himself-in-pub

    The man has nothing to apolgize for!

    The misleading headline makes it sound like an MP has just gone around exposing himself to unwilling people.

    Not that when he was young well over a decade before becoming an MP he exposed himself to a woman *after she asked him to do so*.

    File under young and stupid and move on. I'm glad all my youthful indiscretions weren't on camera.
    That really is a total non-story. It is no different from drunk bloke moons the window of the bus or woman flashes boobs when egged on by everybody, that literally happens every weekend up and down the country.

    Hardly Louis CK stuff.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,767
    Dems should form a team of rivals that brings together the two wings of the party and this could beat Trump, says NYT column.


    "If this election turns out to be just between a self-proclaimed socialist and an undiagnosed sociopath, we will be in a terrible, terrible place as a country. How do we prevent that?"

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/25/opinion/democratic-primary-candidates.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    Beibheirli_C said:

    contrarian said:

    Beibheirli_C said:

    contrarian said:

    Beibheirli_C said:

    contrarian said:

    CatMan said:

    Pity the poor Priti Patel
    twitter.com/Simon_Nixon/status/1232202926329909248?s=19

    The civil service should be careful not to overplay their hand. In Patel they may be unwittingly creating a rival to Johnson down the line.
    What? You mean another vacuous, policy-free politician who plays to the popular audience whilst Rome burns?
    I suspect Patel would play to the 'popular audience' even more than the current PM. Quite a bit more, actually.
    Maybe she could provide the "creative destruction" so craved by the madder "advisors" clustering around Johnson? I suspect that after those two clowns, the UK would unrecognisable from its current (or former) self.
    Look I'm not a Patel supporter, my only point is it could happen. If Johnson is seen to be a trimmer, a backslider or a 'betrayer' and loses his way, then attention could fall on a high profile 'full fat' alternative. Someone who is 'one of us'. And Patel is all of that.

    I am not saying Patel cannot take over from Johnson. She could do so.

    I am saying it would be a disaster for the country.
    If Boris hands over before the next general election or wins the next general election, Rishi Sunak likely succeeds him as next Tory leader and PM.

    If Boris leads the Tories into the next general election and loses though I would make Patel favourite to succeed him as Tory leader
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    Surely this behaviour is de rigueur in the desolate north.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/25/tory-mp-james-grundy-apologises-after-exposing-himself-in-pub

    The man has nothing to apolgize for!

    The misleading headline makes it sound like an MP has just gone around exposing himself to unwilling people.

    Not that when he was young well over a decade before becoming an MP he exposed himself to a woman *after she asked him to do so*.

    File under young and stupid and move on. I'm glad all my youthful indiscretions weren't on camera.
    That really is a total non-story. It is no different from drunk bloke moons the window of the bus or woman flashes boobs when egged on by everybody, that literally happens every weekend up and down the country.
    It was ten years ago, he wasn’t an MP, he was young, everyone was drunk and everyone was egging him on to do it - including the woman at its centre.

    Non story. It’s this sort of thing that stops people going into politics for a lifetime.

    I did some stuff in my early and mid 20s that would certainly be deeply embarrassing if it ever came out and that, and that alone, is probably enough to disqualify me for life.
  • northernpowerhouse2northernpowerhouse2 Posts: 190
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    I have to say I think I am more worried about outbreak of the virus in Iran than in China. For all the many faults of the Chinese regime, if there is one thing they are good at is taking swift coordinated action on a mass scale. I don't see Iran building hospitals in 2 weeks, ramping up mass production of medical supplies or managing to enforce a ban to keep 10's of millions of people off the streets.

    A good leader would use this to rebuild their relationships with the world.
    Hey world come and help us, we will be grateful and we will in the background stop doing all that stuff you dont want us to do. Lets lift sanctions etc.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    rottenborough said:

    Dems should form a team of rivals that brings together the two wings of the party and this could beat Trump, says NYT column.

    "If this election turns out to be just between a self-proclaimed socialist and an undiagnosed sociopath, we will be in a terrible, terrible place as a country. How do we prevent that?"

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/25/opinion/democratic-primary-candidates.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

    Well what a good idea.
    You probably wouldn't start from here, though....
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    HYUFD said:

    Beibheirli_C said:

    contrarian said:

    Beibheirli_C said:

    contrarian said:

    Beibheirli_C said:

    contrarian said:

    CatMan said:

    Pity the poor Priti Patel
    twitter.com/Simon_Nixon/status/1232202926329909248?s=19

    The civil service should be careful not to overplay their hand. In Patel they may be unwittingly creating a rival to Johnson down the line.
    What? You mean another vacuous, policy-free politician who plays to the popular audience whilst Rome burns?
    I suspect Patel would play to the 'popular audience' even more than the current PM. Quite a bit more, actually.
    Maybe she could provide the "creative destruction" so craved by the madder "advisors" clustering around Johnson? I suspect that after those two clowns, the UK would unrecognisable from its current (or former) self.
    Look I'm not a Patel supporter, my only point is it could happen. If Johnson is seen to be a trimmer, a backslider or a 'betrayer' and loses his way, then attention could fall on a high profile 'full fat' alternative. Someone who is 'one of us'. And Patel is all of that.

    I am not saying Patel cannot take over from Johnson. She could do so.

    I am saying it would be a disaster for the country.
    If Boris hands over before the next general election or wins the next general election, Rishi Sunak likely succeeds him as next Tory leader and PM.

    If Boris leads the Tories into the next general election and loses though I would make Patel favourite to succeed him as Tory leader
    Patel would be perfect as an opposition leader for the Tories. She could indulge her comedy gland whilst doing little harm to the country.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    Surely this behaviour is de rigueur in the desolate north.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/25/tory-mp-james-grundy-apologises-after-exposing-himself-in-pub

    The man has nothing to apolgize for!

    The misleading headline makes it sound like an MP has just gone around exposing himself to unwilling people.

    Not that when he was young well over a decade before becoming an MP he exposed himself to a woman *after she asked him to do so*.

    File under young and stupid and move on. I'm glad all my youthful indiscretions weren't on camera.
    That really is a total non-story. It is no different from drunk bloke moons the window of the bus or woman flashes boobs when egged on by everybody, that literally happens every weekend up and down the country.
    Precisely! We've all done something stupid when we were young and drunk, the difference is now the generation is coming through were it was caught on camera.

    It can only be a matter of time before someone becomes party leader and her tits or his penis was caught on film years earlier. Its like all the moral outrage in the last thread about someone *mock horror* reading a story to a child.

    People need to grow up and get their minds out of the gutter. We all have a private life, get over it!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    northernpowerhouse2 said:

    contrarian said:

    Beibheirli_C said:

    contrarian said:

    Beibheirli_C said:

    contrarian said:

    CatMan said:

    Pity the poor Priti Patel
    twitter.com/Simon_Nixon/status/1232202926329909248?s=19

    The civil service should be careful not to overplay their hand. In Patel they may be unwittingly creating a rival to Johnson down the line.
    What? You mean another vacuous, policy-free politician who plays to the popular audience whilst Rome burns?
    I suspect Patel would play to the 'popular audience' even more than the current PM. Quite a bit more, actually.
    Maybe she could provide the "creative destruction" so craved by the madder "advisors" clustering around Johnson? I suspect that after those two clowns, the UK would unrecognisable from its current (or former) self.
    Look I'm not a Patel supporter, my only point is it could happen. If Johnson is seen to be a trimmer, a backslider or a 'betrayer' and loses his way, then attention could fall on a high profile 'full fat' alternative. Someone who is 'one of us'. And Patel is all of that.

    That look on her face in the photo of her with the police carrying out an immigration raid is borderline pornographic.

    The left will lose their shit again if the first BAME PM is a tory.
    Slightly unedifyingly that would mainly consist of left wing white people calling them a traitor to their race.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,932
    edited February 2020
    HYUFD said:

    Beibheirli_C said:

    contrarian said:

    Beibheirli_C said:

    contrarian said:

    Beibheirli_C said:

    contrarian said:

    CatMan said:

    Pity the poor Priti Patel
    twitter.com/Simon_Nixon/status/1232202926329909248?s=19

    The civil service should be careful not to overplay their hand. In Patel they may be unwittingly creating a rival to Johnson down the line.
    What? You mean another vacuous, policy-free politician who plays to the popular audience whilst Rome burns?
    I suspect Patel would play to the 'popular audience' even more than the current PM. Quite a bit more, actually.
    Maybe she could provide the "creative destruction" so craved by the madder "advisors" clustering around Johnson? I suspect that after those two clowns, the UK would unrecognisable from its current (or former) self.
    Look I'm not a Patel supporter, my only point is it could happen. If Johnson is seen to be a trimmer, a backslider or a 'betrayer' and loses his way, then attention could fall on a high profile 'full fat' alternative. Someone who is 'one of us'. And Patel is all of that.

    I am not saying Patel cannot take over from Johnson. She could do so.

    I am saying it would be a disaster for the country.
    If Boris hands over before the next general election or wins the next general election, Rishi Sunak likely succeeds him as next Tory leader and PM.

    If Boris leads the Tories into the next general election and loses though I would make Patel favourite to succeed him as Tory leader
    I'd want to see Rishi present the budget first (except it clashes with Cheltenham so I won't). Rishi is duller than a very dull thing but could have splashed out on charisma lessons: he certainly has the money to pay the fees.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    HYUFD said:

    Beibheirli_C said:

    contrarian said:

    Beibheirli_C said:

    contrarian said:

    Beibheirli_C said:

    contrarian said:

    CatMan said:

    Pity the poor Priti Patel
    twitter.com/Simon_Nixon/status/1232202926329909248?s=19

    The civil service should be careful not to overplay their hand. In Patel they may be unwittingly creating a rival to Johnson down the line.
    What? You mean another vacuous, policy-free politician who plays to the popular audience whilst Rome burns?
    I suspect Patel would play to the 'popular audience' even more than the current PM. Quite a bit more, actually.
    Maybe she could provide the "creative destruction" so craved by the madder "advisors" clustering around Johnson? I suspect that after those two clowns, the UK would unrecognisable from its current (or former) self.
    Look I'm not a Patel supporter, my only point is it could happen. If Johnson is seen to be a trimmer, a backslider or a 'betrayer' and loses his way, then attention could fall on a high profile 'full fat' alternative. Someone who is 'one of us'. And Patel is all of that.

    I am not saying Patel cannot take over from Johnson. She could do so.

    I am saying it would be a disaster for the country.
    If Boris hands over before the next general election or wins the next general election, Rishi Sunak likely succeeds him as next Tory leader and PM.

    If Boris leads the Tories into the next general election and loses though I would make Patel favourite to succeed him as Tory leader
    Not everyone's cup of tea, apparently:
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/24/yorkshire-tea-calls-truce-rishi-sunak-tweet-abuse

    (Though admittedly this is an example of of political idiocy along the lines of 'I could never be friends with a Tory', only more stupid.)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    edited February 2020
    northernpowerhouse2 said:

    You can pick any regime and find positive things that happened even if the whole was a nightmare. The infamous "trains ran on time" under the Italian fascist administration, full employment in the German Reich, the rapid transformation from agrarian peasant economies in the soviet union and china to industrialised powers.

    If you forget about the oppression, mass murder, internment, secret police, corruption with cultural, social and economic stagnation.

    The internal requirements of a state to enforce behaviour counter to natural human behaviour, and inhibit further radicalism against the new status quo results in all of the above.

    True. But regarding last para, just because a particular human behaviour can be argued as being "natural", this does not mean that the state should not legislate against it. There is an obligation to do so in some cases.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited February 2020
    So what's the betting that more in the Iranian government have got it? Remarkable he was still doing this when obviously not well.

    https://twitter.com/rafsanchez/status/1232276847255224320
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited February 2020
    Casino_Royale said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    Surely this behaviour is de rigueur in the desolate north.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/25/tory-mp-james-grundy-apologises-after-exposing-himself-in-pub

    The man has nothing to apolgize for!

    The misleading headline makes it sound like an MP has just gone around exposing himself to unwilling people.

    Not that when he was young well over a decade before becoming an MP he exposed himself to a woman *after she asked him to do so*.

    File under young and stupid and move on. I'm glad all my youthful indiscretions weren't on camera.
    That really is a total non-story. It is no different from drunk bloke moons the window of the bus or woman flashes boobs when egged on by everybody, that literally happens every weekend up and down the country.
    It was ten years ago, he wasn’t an MP, he was young, everyone was drunk and everyone was egging him on to do it - including the woman at its centre.

    Non story. It’s this sort of thing that stops people going into politics for a lifetime.

    I did some stuff in my early and mid 20s that would certainly be deeply embarrassing if it ever came out and that, and that alone, is probably enough to disqualify me for life.
    I certainly would hate to be a student nowadays. Any indiscretion or word out of place probably will be recorded and potentially used out of context against you way down the line.

    I actually wonder if we need some sort of regulations about this. It really isn't in the public interest to know that 10+ years somebody got drunk, all his mates shout show us your cock and they do so, and now it is splashed all over the media just because you became an MP.

    We have laws about revenge porn, in a way this is quite similar. It is obviously quite different if this was a Louis CK type incident and then there would be a public interest in exposing it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    Casino_Royale said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    Surely this behaviour is de rigueur in the desolate north.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/25/tory-mp-james-grundy-apologises-after-exposing-himself-in-pub

    The man has nothing to apolgize for!

    The misleading headline makes it sound like an MP has just gone around exposing himself to unwilling people.

    Not that when he was young well over a decade before becoming an MP he exposed himself to a woman *after she asked him to do so*.

    File under young and stupid and move on. I'm glad all my youthful indiscretions weren't on camera.
    That really is a total non-story. It is no different from drunk bloke moons the window of the bus or woman flashes boobs when egged on by everybody, that literally happens every weekend up and down the country.
    It was ten years ago, he wasn’t an MP, he was young, everyone was drunk and everyone was egging him on to do it - including the woman at its centre.

    Non story. It’s this sort of thing that stops people going into politics for a lifetime.

    I did some stuff in my early and mid 20s that would certainly be deeply embarrassing if it ever came out and that, and that alone, is probably enough to disqualify me for life.
    "I refuse to apologise for dropping my trousers" would be an original line to take, though...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    CarlottaVance said:

    https://twitter.com/shashj/status/1232271237608615938?s=21

    12 dead @2% = at least 600 infected, probably multiple times that because there will be many, as in China neither cured or dead. Iran are not even finding 10% of those infected right now.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Beibheirli_C said:

    contrarian said:

    Beibheirli_C said:

    contrarian said:

    Beibheirli_C said:

    contrarian said:

    CatMan said:

    Pity the poor Priti Patel
    twitter.com/Simon_Nixon/status/1232202926329909248?s=19

    The civil service should be careful not to overplay their hand. In Patel they may be unwittingly creating a rival to Johnson down the line.
    What? You mean another vacuous, policy-free politician who plays to the popular audience whilst Rome burns?
    I suspect Patel would play to the 'popular audience' even more than the current PM. Quite a bit more, actually.
    Maybe she could provide the "creative destruction" so craved by the madder "advisors" clustering around Johnson? I suspect that after those two clowns, the UK would unrecognisable from its current (or former) self.
    Look I'm not a Patel supporter, my only point is it could happen. If Johnson is seen to be a trimmer, a backslider or a 'betrayer' and loses his way, then attention could fall on a high profile 'full fat' alternative. Someone who is 'one of us'. And Patel is all of that.

    I am not saying Patel cannot take over from Johnson. She could do so.

    I am saying it would be a disaster for the country.
    If Boris hands over before the next general election or wins the next general election, Rishi Sunak likely succeeds him as next Tory leader and PM.

    If Boris leads the Tories into the next general election and loses though I would make Patel favourite to succeed him as Tory leader
    I'd want to see Rishi present the budget first (except it clashes with Cheltenham so I won't). Rishi is duller than a very dull thing but could have splashed out on charisma lessons: he certainly has the money to pay the fees.
    Very few Chancellors naturally come across as charismatic, I can't think of any my lifetime that would be the term that would come to mind to describe them with.

    However while I tipped Sunak to be next PM I don't think for one second that will be a winning bet before the election. He needs time to grow and mature in the Cabinet, even as Chancellor.

    I'd put them the opposite way around to what HYUFD said. If Boris fell under a bus before the next election I'd expect his successor to be someone more established like Patel. Sunak is more long-term bet, even as new Chancellor, I wouldn't expect that before the next election at the earliest.
  • northernpowerhouse2northernpowerhouse2 Posts: 190
    kinabalu said:

    northernpowerhouse2 said:

    You can pick any regime and find positive things that happened even if the whole was a nightmare. The infamous "trains ran on time" under the Italian fascist administration, full employment in the German Reich, the rapid transformation from agrarian peasant economies in the soviet union and china to industrialised powers.

    If you forget about the oppression, mass murder, internment, secret police, corruption with cultural, social and economic stagnation.

    The internal requirements of a state to enforce behaviour counter to natural human behaviour, and inhibit further radicalism against the new status quo results in all of the above.

    True. But regarding last para, just because a particular human behaviour can be argued as being "natural", this does not mean that the state should not legislate against it. There is an obligation to do so in some cases.
    I agree. But history so far has shown to stop people wanting to acquire wealth for themselves and to pass down to their family, and to freely participate in the purchasing and selling of goods and services is so ingrained to human behaviour that it requires mass oppression to inhibit it.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Nigelb said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    Surely this behaviour is de rigueur in the desolate north.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/25/tory-mp-james-grundy-apologises-after-exposing-himself-in-pub

    The man has nothing to apolgize for!

    The misleading headline makes it sound like an MP has just gone around exposing himself to unwilling people.

    Not that when he was young well over a decade before becoming an MP he exposed himself to a woman *after she asked him to do so*.

    File under young and stupid and move on. I'm glad all my youthful indiscretions weren't on camera.
    That really is a total non-story. It is no different from drunk bloke moons the window of the bus or woman flashes boobs when egged on by everybody, that literally happens every weekend up and down the country.
    It was ten years ago, he wasn’t an MP, he was young, everyone was drunk and everyone was egging him on to do it - including the woman at its centre.

    Non story. It’s this sort of thing that stops people going into politics for a lifetime.

    I did some stuff in my early and mid 20s that would certainly be deeply embarrassing if it ever came out and that, and that alone, is probably enough to disqualify me for life.
    "I refuse to apologise for dropping my trousers" would be an original line to take, though...
    If it comes to a by election, Labour should be well placed to recapture the seat.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,680
    Philip_Thompson said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    Surely this behaviour is de rigueur in the desolate north.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/25/tory-mp-james-grundy-apologises-after-exposing-himself-in-pub

    The man has nothing to apolgize for!

    The misleading headline makes it sound like an MP has just gone around exposing himself to unwilling people.

    Not that when he was young well over a decade before becoming an MP he exposed himself to a woman *after she asked him to do so*.

    File under young and stupid and move on. I'm glad all my youthful indiscretions weren't on camera.
    That really is a total non-story. It is no different from drunk bloke moons the window of the bus or woman flashes boobs when egged on by everybody, that literally happens every weekend up and down the country.
    Precisely! We've all done something stupid when we were young and drunk, the difference is now the generation is coming through were it was caught on camera.

    It can only be a matter of time before someone becomes party leader and her tits or his penis was caught on film years earlier. Its like all the moral outrage in the last thread about someone *mock horror* reading a story to a child.

    People need to grow up and get their minds out of the gutter. We all have a private life, get over it!
    Might it be that Cummings leaked the footage himself - propagating the idea that the Tories are no longer buttoned-up southern jessies but member-flaunting northern upstarts who get things done?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,767
    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1232271866506752001
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    Nigelb said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    Surely this behaviour is de rigueur in the desolate north.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/25/tory-mp-james-grundy-apologises-after-exposing-himself-in-pub

    The man has nothing to apolgize for!

    The misleading headline makes it sound like an MP has just gone around exposing himself to unwilling people.

    Not that when he was young well over a decade before becoming an MP he exposed himself to a woman *after she asked him to do so*.

    File under young and stupid and move on. I'm glad all my youthful indiscretions weren't on camera.
    That really is a total non-story. It is no different from drunk bloke moons the window of the bus or woman flashes boobs when egged on by everybody, that literally happens every weekend up and down the country.
    It was ten years ago, he wasn’t an MP, he was young, everyone was drunk and everyone was egging him on to do it - including the woman at its centre.

    Non story. It’s this sort of thing that stops people going into politics for a lifetime.

    I did some stuff in my early and mid 20s that would certainly be deeply embarrassing if it ever came out and that, and that alone, is probably enough to disqualify me for life.
    "I refuse to apologise for dropping my trousers" would be an original line to take, though...
    You just say it was a youthful indiscretion.

    I fail to see why it’s anyone’s business though.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    rottenborough said:

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1232271866506752001

    Andrew Neil is a national treasure and a great journalist but he's hardly a government spokesperson!

    He didn't even interview Boris during the last election.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Stark_Dawning said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    Surely this behaviour is de rigueur in the desolate north.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/25/tory-mp-james-grundy-apologises-after-exposing-himself-in-pub

    The man has nothing to apolgize for!

    The misleading headline makes it sound like an MP has just gone around exposing himself to unwilling people.

    Not that when he was young well over a decade before becoming an MP he exposed himself to a woman *after she asked him to do so*.

    File under young and stupid and move on. I'm glad all my youthful indiscretions weren't on camera.
    That really is a total non-story. It is no different from drunk bloke moons the window of the bus or woman flashes boobs when egged on by everybody, that literally happens every weekend up and down the country.
    Precisely! We've all done something stupid when we were young and drunk, the difference is now the generation is coming through were it was caught on camera.

    It can only be a matter of time before someone becomes party leader and her tits or his penis was caught on film years earlier. Its like all the moral outrage in the last thread about someone *mock horror* reading a story to a child.

    People need to grow up and get their minds out of the gutter. We all have a private life, get over it!
    Might it be that Cummings leaked the footage himself - propagating the idea that the Tories are no longer buttoned-up southern jessies but member-flaunting northern upstarts who get things done?
    There are things you want done, and things you don’t.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    Flashed at a private event in the pub apparently. I think private event is key here, whacking it out in the middle of a Weatherspoons at tea time would be more serious.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,037
    Just cast my ballot.

    For two losing candidates, I suspect.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited February 2020
    eristdoof said:



    Weinstein used his position money and reputation to intiidate people from going public with what they knew. The threat of a very expensive law suit and suddenly finding that there are no jobs available in the film industry is enough to dissuade most people from blowing the whistle.

    If only one woman had made her public allegations against Weinstein, I think it is unlikely that the case would have come to court. Because several women with strong cases went public *and* many others lacking enough evidence for a court case also went public that a sucessful prosecution was possible.

    Although "Not blowing the whistle" is bad, I can also understand it, and think it is harsh to criticise peope for keeping quiet.

    I think many people who seemingly knew were also very powerful (Quentin Tarantino, certainly; Bob Weinstein, cofounder of Miramax, certainly; Meryl Streep, well, she says she didn't know, but she would certainly have had enough clout to take Harvey on if she had known).

    So, I don't fully accept your argument.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    SandyRentool said:

    Just cast my ballot.

    For two losing candidates, I suspect.

    1. Nandy 2. Long Bailey ?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    northernpowerhouse2 said:

    He did what he did to provoke. And good on him, he has highlighted how far down the rabbit hole the nutters are with absurd claims about white supremacy etc and critical race theory festering in our institutions.

    But it seems clear that he was lining things up, comedy circuit, bands etc.

    He lit the fireworks. He doesnt deserve the abuse but he knew it would be coming.

    Bit pathetic really. Dishes it but can't take it. Unless it has all been for show and self-promotion. Which I hope is the case - since depression is not to be wished on anybody.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,037
    Pulpstar said:

    SandyRentool said:

    Just cast my ballot.

    For two losing candidates, I suspect.

    1. Nandy 2. Long Bailey ?
    I meant:

    1 Nandy

    1 Dr Rosena
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Pulpstar said:

    Flashed at a private event in the pub apparently. I think private event is key here, whacking it out in the middle of a Weatherspoons at tea time would be more serious.

    I thought that was usual behaviour in Spoons?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    edited February 2020
    I'm now very long Biden (And Warren and Klob; neutral Sanders). Here's the theory behind the position

    All the signs are, Sanders is going to be hammered in tonight's debate. Negative headlines followed by a win for Biden in South Carolina, hopefully that'll push Biden in and Sanders out where I'll re-equalise them.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    contrarian said:

    Look I'm not a Patel supporter, my only point is it could happen. If Johnson is seen to be a trimmer, a backslider or a 'betrayer' and loses his way, then attention could fall on a high profile 'full fat' alternative. Someone who is 'one of us'. And Patel is all of that.

    I'm not saying it can't happen but if it did, she would be the first PM in living memory with an IQ in double digits. This would be a serious handicap in carrying out the job to an acceptable standard.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited February 2020
    Days since Labour have an antisemitism anti-zionist issue...reset the clock.

    https://order-order.com/2020/02/25/long-baileys-rally/
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    Nigelb said:

    Not everyone's cup of tea, apparently:
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/24/yorkshire-tea-calls-truce-rishi-sunak-tweet-abuse

    (Though admittedly this is an example of of political idiocy along the lines of 'I could never be friends with a Tory', only more stupid.)

    Oh dear. I drink that. Every Sunday for the past ten years I have had a mug of it with a piece of cake at 3.30 pm.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited February 2020
    Brexiteers turn against GDPR, despite the fact it is now UK law via DPA 2018

    https://twitter.com/DouglasCarswell/status/1232065345554460676?s=20
    https://twitter.com/DCBMEP/status/1232246587906252800?s=20
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    kinabalu said:

    contrarian said:

    Look I'm not a Patel supporter, my only point is it could happen. If Johnson is seen to be a trimmer, a backslider or a 'betrayer' and loses his way, then attention could fall on a high profile 'full fat' alternative. Someone who is 'one of us'. And Patel is all of that.

    I'm not saying it can't happen but if it did, she would be the first PM in living memory with an IQ in double digits. This would be a serious handicap in carrying out the job to an acceptable standard.
    Frightful snobbery - is it because she went to a non Oxbridge Uni or another sort of bigotry ?
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,604
    DavidL said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    https://twitter.com/shashj/status/1232271237608615938?s=21

    12 dead @2% = at least 600 infected, probably multiple times that because there will be many, as in China neither cured or dead. Iran are not even finding 10% of those infected right now.
    Take a look at the number of cases outside China on the logarithmic scale. (Scroll down and click on logarithmic.)

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-cases/

    You'll see that is basically a straight line. That means the growth is exponential. It is growing an order of magnitude every 20 days.

    18 Feb 1,000
    10 Mar 10,000
    30 Mar 100,000
    19 Apr 1,000,000
    9 May 10,000,000
    29 May 100,000,000
    18 Jun 1,000,000,000
    6 Jul everyone

    But this won't happen for a variety of reasons. It is worth watching this chart to see when the straight line begins to deviate in a clockwise direction. That will mean that the exponential growth is slowing down.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    Philip_Thompson said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Beibheirli_C said:

    contrarian said:

    Beibheirli_C said:

    contrarian said:

    Beibheirli_C said:

    contrarian said:

    CatMan said:

    Pity the poor Priti Patel
    twitter.com/Simon_Nixon/status/1232202926329909248?s=19

    The civil service should be careful not to overplay their hand. In Patel they may be unwittingly creating a rival to Johnson down the line.
    What? You mean another vacuous, policy-free politician who plays to the popular audience whilst Rome burns?
    I suspect Patel would play to the 'popular audience' even more than the current PM. Quite a bit more, actually.
    Maybe she could provide the "creative destruction" so craved by the madder "advisors" clustering around Johnson? I suspect that after those two clowns, the UK would unrecognisable from its current (or former) self.
    Look I'm not a Patel supporter, my only point is it could happen. If Johnson is seen to be a trimmer, a backslider or a 'betrayer' and loses his way, then attention could fall on a high profile 'full fat' alternative. Someone who is 'one of us'. And Patel is all of that.

    I am not saying Patel cannot take over from Johnson. She could do so.

    I am saying it would be a disaster for the country.
    If Boris hands over before the next general election or wins the next general election, Rishi Sunak likely succeeds him as next Tory leader and PM.

    If Boris leads the Tories into the next general election and loses though I would make Patel favourite to succeed him as Tory leader
    I'd want to see Rishi e fees.
    Very few Chancellors naturally come across as charismatic, I can't think of any my lifetime that would be the term that would come to mind to describe them with.

    However while I tipped Sunak to be next PM I don't think for one second that will be a winning bet before the election. He needs time to grow and mature in the Cabinet, even as Chancellor.

    I'd put them the opposite way around to what HYUFD said. If Boris fell under a bus before the next election I'd expect his successor to be someone more established like Patel. Sunak is more long-term bet, even as new Chancellor, I wouldn't expect that before the next election at the earliest.
    The chancellor is normally favourite in power to succeed, e.g. Callaghan and Brown and Osborne pre Brexit and Major went from Chancellor to PM after only a few months in the job.

    On losing power though the party will be more likely to choose a red meat rightwinger like Patel, as they picked Hague, IDS and Howard
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    Casino_Royale said:

    You just say it was a youthful indiscretion.

    I fail to see why it’s anyone’s business though.

    Have you ever dropped your trousers at a private gathering?
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Casino_Royale said:

    northernpowerhouse2 said:

    contrarian said:

    Beibheirli_C said:

    contrarian said:

    Beibheirli_C said:

    contrarian said:

    CatMan said:

    Pity the poor Priti Patel
    twitter.com/Simon_Nixon/status/1232202926329909248?s=19

    The civil service should be careful not to overplay their hand. In Patel they may be unwittingly creating a rival to Johnson down the line.
    What? You mean another vacuous, policy-free politician who plays to the popular audience whilst Rome burns?
    I suspect Patel would play to the 'popular audience' even more than the current PM. Quite a bit more, actually.
    Maybe she could provide the "creative destruction" so craved by the madder "advisors" clustering around Johnson? I suspect that after those two clowns, the UK would unrecognisable from its current (or former) self.
    Look I'm not a Patel supporter, my only point is it could happen. If Johnson is seen to be a trimmer, a backslider or a 'betrayer' and loses his way, then attention could fall on a high profile 'full fat' alternative. Someone who is 'one of us'. And Patel is all of that.

    That look on her face in the photo of her with the police carrying out an immigration raid is borderline pornographic.

    The left will lose their shit again if the first BAME PM is a tory.
    Slightly unedifyingly that would mainly consist of left wing white people calling them a traitor to their race.
    Just you wait till the London mayoral election. I mean, Bailey won't win, obviously, but he's going to get dog's abuse for even trying.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    https://twitter.com/Jeremy_Hunt/status/1232256948084596736?s=20
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited February 2020
    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1232258329034002432?s=20
  • Kevin_McCandlessKevin_McCandless Posts: 392
    eristdoof said:

    Barnesian said:

    DavidL said:

    Too late and Biden hanging around looking old and confused has really not helped. The Democratic nomination looks wrapped up to me. Too many in the party unable to see beyond their own selfish egotistic interests.

    I agree. The ad seems ineffective to me. Sanders didn't actually stand against Obama in a primary. Yes he challenged Obama on not being brave enough on some policies. Many who admire Obama may feel the same. It's well known that Sanders is more radical than Obama.

    However I think that Biden will win the SC primary. But I'm not an Afro-Amerian living in South Carolina so who knows.
    It is not unusal for there to be half hearted attempts in a primary running against an incumbent, that fizzle out before or soon after the first few states have voted. This is not usually seen as a direct attack on the president, and probably gives a small boost and publicity to the incumbent.

    I can't see this having much effect on votes for Sanders, and any switched votes will go to Warren or Buttigieg or Klobuchar or Biden, so Biden will hardly benefit at all. If it really backfires, a few extra votes to Klobuchar or Buttigieg to push them over the 15% hurdle could actually decrease Biden's delegate count.
    Obama is generally well-liked and respected but he isn't beloved. When key Democratic states flip to the GOP in 2016, his electoral coat-tails are limited.

    Bernie: "Not a Part of the Democratic Party Establishment" seems to be a message you can read more than one way.
This discussion has been closed.