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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » For Iowa caucus punters the wait continues

SystemSystem Posts: 12,054
edited February 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » For Iowa caucus punters the wait continues

Tomorrow sees Nevada the second state in the WH2020 process to hold a caucus to choose a nominee to fight Mr. Trump. The big difference between caucuses and a normal primary is that with the former the party machine, not the state government handles the elections which can be more complex than simple statewide ballots.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,600
    edited February 2020
    Iowans are rubbish, first the farce with the poll, now the feck up with the caucus, they couldn’t organise a farting contest in a baked bean factory.

  • Tell me about it.

  • Have we any information on how long this recount will take?
  • There should be a line on if this will take less or more time to come to a conclusion than disciplinary action against Red Ken by the Labour party took...
  • I’ve had relationships that have lasted shorter than the Iowa count.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,876
    (FPT)

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    And no there have been no openly gay vice presidents.

    You didn't specify openly.
    No one can ever specify enough to stop a lefty trying to wriggle out of their own contradictions.

    So why aren't you celebrating the first openly gay man getting this position?
    Presumably because of his miserable character and utter unsuitability for the post ?
    Yeah but you could say the same about Hillary...
    With considerably less justification, of course you could.
    The point is if only gays/women with the "right" opinions count then it's an attitude which is homophobic/sexist itself.
    And mine that someone's gender status ought to be irrelevant when their appointment is being justifiably critiqued.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited February 2020

    I’ve had relationships that have lasted shorter than the Iowa count.

    Is that one of those sentences that stupid people think are bad grammar, but clever people can explain as correct?
  • I wonder which will happen first - people here realise there's no such thing as Leavers or Remainers anymore now that Brexit is done . . . or there is a payout on the Iowa caucus?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,469

    I wonder which will happen first - people here realise there's no such thing as Leavers or Remainers anymore now that Brexit is done . . . or there is a payout on the Iowa caucus?

    There are still Remainers and Leavers. Whether the two groups combined still make up a large majority of the country is uncertain.

    I guess we'll see by the reaction to a trade deal, or lack of one, later this year.
  • isam said:

    I’ve had relationships that have lasted shorter than the Iowa count.

    Is that one of those sentences that stupid people think are bad grammar, but clever people can show as correct?
    Maybe.

    It brings me back to the day at work when we had discussions about ‘data is’ or ‘data are’, things became a little heated.
  • How do you all pronounce data?

    Is it data or data?
  • How do you all pronounce data?

    Is it data or data?

    Or as the Australians say darrrrrrrrr-ta.
  • I wonder which will happen first - people here realise there's no such thing as Leavers or Remainers anymore now that Brexit is done . . . or there is a payout on the Iowa caucus?

    There are still Remainers and Leavers. Whether the two groups combined still make up a large majority of the country is uncertain.

    I guess we'll see by the reaction to a trade deal, or lack of one, later this year.
    There were Leavers and Remainers but we've already left now, Brexit is already done. There's nothing for us to Leave or Remain in anymore.

    You might want to Rejoin now but that's not Remain.
  • How do you all pronounce data?

    Is it data or data?

    Or as the Australians say darrrrrrrrr-ta.
    I’m a daytah man, people who say dah-tah are monsters.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,276

    I wonder which will happen first - people here realise there's no such thing as Leavers or Remainers anymore now that Brexit is done . . . or there is a payout on the Iowa caucus?

    But it's a free country so you can still argue that Brexit was a massive mistake - although it's a bit cheeky to do so if you voted Tory on Dec 12th.

    Now then, back to the important stuff. PT and schools reform. You and I have blended our opposite politics and a certain alchemy has taken place. We have a consensus that it is worth exploring the idea of ALL schools being private - with equalized fees but within that constraining caveat competing for pupils in a fair and open market. All parents to be equipped with a voucher (to the value of the fees) to invest in a school as they see fit.

    I'm excited by this. We now need to get some serious work done. See if we can turn it from inspiring egalitarian yet libertarian vision to practical policy proposal. It's "wonk" time, in other words, detail detail detail, and I'm hoping you have the time and the inclination.

    So, you up for it? You OK to wonk with me on this?
  • How do you all pronounce data?

    Is it data or data?

    Only the second of those is correct.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    Nigelb said:

    (FPT)

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    And no there have been no openly gay vice presidents.

    You didn't specify openly.
    No one can ever specify enough to stop a lefty trying to wriggle out of their own contradictions.

    So why aren't you celebrating the first openly gay man getting this position?
    Presumably because of his miserable character and utter unsuitability for the post ?
    Yeah but you could say the same about Hillary...
    With considerably less justification, of course you could.
    The point is if only gays/women with the "right" opinions count then it's an attitude which is homophobic/sexist itself.
    And mine that someone's gender status ought to be irrelevant when their appointment is being justifiably critiqued.
    But how do you know the criticism of Grenell isn't motivated by homophobia?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,876

    How do you all pronounce data?

    Is it data or data?

    Or as the Australians say darrrrrrrrr-ta.
    I’m a daytah man, people who say dah-tah are monsters.
    Quite.

    Who would say dartabase ?
  • kinabalu said:

    I wonder which will happen first - people here realise there's no such thing as Leavers or Remainers anymore now that Brexit is done . . . or there is a payout on the Iowa caucus?

    But it's a free country so you can still argue that Brexit was a massive mistake - although it's a bit cheeky to do so if you voted Tory on Dec 12th.

    Now then, back to the important stuff. PT and schools reform. You and I have blended our opposite politics and a certain alchemy has taken place. We have a consensus that it is worth exploring the idea of ALL schools being private - with equalized fees but within that constraining caveat competing for pupils in a fair and open market. All parents to be equipped with a voucher (to the value of the fees) to invest in a school as they see fit.

    I'm excited by this. We now need to get some serious work done. See if we can turn it from inspiring egalitarian yet libertarian vision to practical policy proposal. It's "wonk" time, in other words, detail detail detail, and I'm hoping you have the time and the inclination.

    So, you up for it? You OK to wonk with me on this?
    I agree with a voucher but I disagree with the idea that all schools should have the same fee. I also don't see a difference between paying a premium for school fees, or paying a premium for out of school tuition or anything else. What difference is there?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,424
    edited February 2020
    Nigelb said:

    How do you all pronounce data?

    Is it data or data?

    Or as the Australians say darrrrrrrrr-ta.
    I’m a daytah man, people who say dah-tah are monsters.
    Quite.

    Who would say dartabase ?
    Those who put pineapple on their pizza, obvs....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,876

    Nigelb said:

    (FPT)

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    And no there have been no openly gay vice presidents.

    You didn't specify openly.
    No one can ever specify enough to stop a lefty trying to wriggle out of their own contradictions.

    So why aren't you celebrating the first openly gay man getting this position?
    Presumably because of his miserable character and utter unsuitability for the post ?
    Yeah but you could say the same about Hillary...
    With considerably less justification, of course you could.
    The point is if only gays/women with the "right" opinions count then it's an attitude which is homophobic/sexist itself.
    And mine that someone's gender status ought to be irrelevant when their appointment is being justifiably critiqued.
    But how do you know the criticism of Grenell isn't motivated by homophobia?
    Now you're just being silly.
    You were reacting to a post which was quite clear why he wasn't qualified.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,876

    Nigelb said:

    How do you all pronounce data?

    Is it data or data?

    Or as the Australians say darrrrrrrrr-ta.
    I’m a daytah man, people who say dah-tah are monsters.
    Quite.

    Who would say dartabase ?
    Those who put pineapple on their pizza, obvs....
    Not so much de gustibus... as disgustibus.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,519
    kinabalu said:

    I wonder which will happen first - people here realise there's no such thing as Leavers or Remainers anymore now that Brexit is done . . . or there is a payout on the Iowa caucus?

    But it's a free country so you can still argue that Brexit was a massive mistake - although it's a bit cheeky to do so if you voted Tory on Dec 12th.

    Now then, back to the important stuff. PT and schools reform. You and I have blended our opposite politics and a certain alchemy has taken place. We have a consensus that it is worth exploring the idea of ALL schools being private - with equalized fees but within that constraining caveat competing for pupils in a fair and open market. All parents to be equipped with a voucher (to the value of the fees) to invest in a school as they see fit.

    I'm excited by this. We now need to get some serious work done. See if we can turn it from inspiring egalitarian yet libertarian vision to practical policy proposal. It's "wonk" time, in other words, detail detail detail, and I'm hoping you have the time and the inclination.

    So, you up for it? You OK to wonk with me on this?
    I think you are holding your own in your conversation with Phil. Well done!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,876
    Four coronavirus deaths in Iran would tend to imply well over a hundred existing infections, going back at least a couple of weeks - most of which have not been identified:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-51582186
    ...The virus has also spread in Iran, which reported two further deaths among 13 new cases, bringing the total number of deaths there to four.
    Lebanon also announced its first confirmed case.
    In Iran the outbreak is centred on the holy city of Qom, south of the capital Tehran, but health ministry official Minou Mohrez said the virus may already have spread to "all cities in Iran".
    The case in Lebanon was a 45-year-old woman who had travelled from Qom, Lebanese Health Minister Hassan Hamad said.
    World Health Organization (WHO) officials said both Iran and Lebanon had the basic capacity to detect the virus and the WHO was contacting them to offer further assistance.
    "The measures China and others have taken have given us a fighting chance of containing the spread of the virus," WHO chief Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said.
    "Our window of opportunity is narrowing so we need to act quickly," he added.
    What is the latest in South Korea?
    The southern cities of Daegu and Cheongdo have been declared "special care zones". The streets of Daegu are now largely abandoned.
    All military bases are in lockdown after three soldiers tested positive....


    It's impossible to say what the extent of this particular virus will end up being, but it is certainly not now under control.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,876
    Did they just take a large bear position ?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,660
    Nigelb said:

    Did they just take a large bear position ?
    No. They have no skin in this game.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited February 2020
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    (FPT)

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    And no there have been no openly gay vice presidents.

    You didn't specify openly.
    No one can ever specify enough to stop a lefty trying to wriggle out of their own contradictions.

    So why aren't you celebrating the first openly gay man getting this position?
    Presumably because of his miserable character and utter unsuitability for the post ?
    Yeah but you could say the same about Hillary...
    With considerably less justification, of course you could.
    The point is if only gays/women with the "right" opinions count then it's an attitude which is homophobic/sexist itself.
    And mine that someone's gender status ought to be irrelevant when their appointment is being justifiably critiqued.
    But how do you know the criticism of Grenell isn't motivated by homophobia?
    Now you're just being silly.
    You were reacting to a post which was quite clear why he wasn't qualified.
    The Wapo article? It's not even journalism, just partisan nonsense.

    They despise Grenell because his existence harms the Democrat narrative.
  • How do you all pronounce data?

    Is it data or data?

    Be creative! "datums"
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,876

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    (FPT)

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    And no there have been no openly gay vice presidents.

    You didn't specify openly.
    No one can ever specify enough to stop a lefty trying to wriggle out of their own contradictions.

    So why aren't you celebrating the first openly gay man getting this position?
    Presumably because of his miserable character and utter unsuitability for the post ?
    Yeah but you could say the same about Hillary...
    With considerably less justification, of course you could.
    The point is if only gays/women with the "right" opinions count then it's an attitude which is homophobic/sexist itself.
    And mine that someone's gender status ought to be irrelevant when their appointment is being justifiably critiqued.
    But how do you know the criticism of Grenell isn't motivated by homophobia?
    Now you're just being silly.
    You were reacting to a post which was quite clear why he wasn't qualified.
    The Wapo article? It's not even journalism, just partisan nonsense.

    They despise Grenell because he harms the Democrat narrative.
    Your mind reading skills are awesome.

    The reason he's despised - a position shared by most German politicians, who won't even meet with him as ambassador for fear of damaging their electoral odds - is that he's a hardline Trump partisan.
    Which would be quite understandable in many administration posts, but is a distinct drawback in adequately filling either of the two roles he now has simultaneously:
    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/20/senate-republicans-richard-grenell-acting-intelligence-chief-116327
  • Mr. Eagles, not sure if it's a myth or not, but heard that Data in TNG was meant to be pronounced 'darta' but Patrick Stewart pronounced it as 'data' and so it stuck.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,876
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Did they just take a large bear position ?
    No. They have no skin in this game.
    Well it is true that humanity is not overly represented in the corridors of JP Morgan...
  • eadric said:

    Anyone who isn't now worried about coronavirus, as I was worried a week ago, is either stupid or already dead from coronavirus


    https://twitter.com/HelenBranswell/status/1230829831732023297?s=20

    I'm not worried. More likely to be in a road traffic accident than struck down by coronavirus.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,660
    eadric said:

    Anyone who isn't now worried about coronavirus, as I was worried a week ago, is either stupid or already dead from coronavirus

    Does anyone know if Cummings is worried? If not, win/win.
  • eadric said:

    Anyone who isn't now worried about coronavirus, as I was worried a week ago, is either stupid or already dead from coronavirus


    https://twitter.com/HelenBranswell/status/1230829831732023297?s=20

    Yikes.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,077
    kinabalu said:

    I wonder which will happen first - people here realise there's no such thing as Leavers or Remainers anymore now that Brexit is done . . . or there is a payout on the Iowa caucus?

    But it's a free country so you can still argue that Brexit was a massive mistake - although it's a bit cheeky to do so if you voted Tory on Dec 12th.

    Now then, back to the important stuff. PT and schools reform. You and I have blended our opposite politics and a certain alchemy has taken place. We have a consensus that it is worth exploring the idea of ALL schools being private - with equalized fees but within that constraining caveat competing for pupils in a fair and open market. All parents to be equipped with a voucher (to the value of the fees) to invest in a school as they see fit.

    I'm excited by this. We now need to get some serious work done. See if we can turn it from inspiring egalitarian yet libertarian vision to practical policy proposal. It's "wonk" time, in other words, detail detail detail, and I'm hoping you have the time and the inclination.

    So, you up for it? You OK to wonk with me on this?
    A new verb 'to wonk'.
    But quite positive to see someone so firmly on the left come up with some imaginative proposals here. I think there's some good ideas to be explored.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,064
    edited February 2020
    Re COVID - 19 I should be worried at my age and with health issues but frankly I am not the least bit concerned, nor is my 80 year old wife, though we both have concerns for the likely economic outcomes across the globe

    And we are not stupid or dead !!!
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981
    The same thing that happened in Iowa could probably happen in Nevada due to a similarly chaotic voting system.

    California has different issues but will also delay the final count for months.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,276
    TOPPING said:

    I think you are holding your own in your conversation with Phil. Well done!

    I sense that someone is developing a little crush on me! Like a photo?
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981
    eadric said:

    Anyone who isn't now worried about coronavirus, as I was worried a week ago, is either stupid or already dead from coronavirus


    https://twitter.com/HelenBranswell/status/1230829831732023297?s=20

    I think it's a better use of money for Bloomberg and the other billionaires to simply find a cure for the disease before the world crashes.

    After all who wants to be President of the United States if the United States is worth nothing.
  • eadric said:

    Re COVID - 19 I should be worried at my age and with health issues but frankly I am not the least bit concerned, nor is my 80 year old wife, though we both have concerns for the likely economic outcomes across the globe

    And we are not stupid or dead !!!

    Coronavirus is unlikely to take you even if it scythes across the UK, it only kills about 15% of the over 80 year olds it infects. What should concern you is the intense and unforeseeable ripple effects: the potential economic slump, the cracking of health systems, the societal reaction to mass quarantine.

    Who knows where this goes.

    I do share your concern on the economic impact which is becoming increasingly obvious, though I am not sure anyone can do anything to avert it

  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited February 2020
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    (FPT)

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    And no there have been no openly gay vice presidents.

    You didn't specify openly.
    No one can ever specify enough to stop a lefty trying to wriggle out of their own contradictions.

    So why aren't you celebrating the first openly gay man getting this position?
    Presumably because of his miserable character and utter unsuitability for the post ?
    Yeah but you could say the same about Hillary...
    With considerably less justification, of course you could.
    The point is if only gays/women with the "right" opinions count then it's an attitude which is homophobic/sexist itself.
    And mine that someone's gender status ought to be irrelevant when their appointment is being justifiably critiqued.
    But how do you know the criticism of Grenell isn't motivated by homophobia?
    Now you're just being silly.
    You were reacting to a post which was quite clear why he wasn't qualified.
    The Wapo article? It's not even journalism, just partisan nonsense.

    They despise Grenell because he harms the Democrat narrative.
    Your mind reading skills are awesome.

    The reason he's despised - a position shared by most German politicians, who won't even meet with him as ambassador for fear of damaging their electoral odds - is that he's a hardline Trump partisan.
    Which would be quite understandable in many administration posts, but is a distinct drawback in adequately filling either of the two roles he now has simultaneously:
    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/20/senate-republicans-richard-grenell-acting-intelligence-chief-116327
    Thankyou, I think so too.

    Aren't you really just backing up my point? The real issue here is he's not a "real" gay because he's a Trump-supporter, that's why the vitriol is so high. Nothing else in that article justifies it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,876

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    (FPT)

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    And no there have been no openly gay vice presidents.

    You didn't specify openly.
    No one can ever specify enough to stop a lefty trying to wriggle out of their own contradictions.

    So why aren't you celebrating the first openly gay man getting this position?
    Presumably because of his miserable character and utter unsuitability for the post ?
    Yeah but you could say the same about Hillary...
    With considerably less justification, of course you could.
    The point is if only gays/women with the "right" opinions count then it's an attitude which is homophobic/sexist itself.
    And mine that someone's gender status ought to be irrelevant when their appointment is being justifiably critiqued.
    But how do you know the criticism of Grenell isn't motivated by homophobia?
    Now you're just being silly.
    You were reacting to a post which was quite clear why he wasn't qualified.
    The Wapo article? It's not even journalism, just partisan nonsense.

    They despise Grenell because he harms the Democrat narrative.
    Your mind reading skills are awesome.

    The reason he's despised - a position shared by most German politicians, who won't even meet with him as ambassador for fear of damaging their electoral odds - is that he's a hardline Trump partisan.
    Which would be quite understandable in many administration posts, but is a distinct drawback in adequately filling either of the two roles he now has simultaneously:
    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/20/senate-republicans-richard-grenell-acting-intelligence-chief-116327
    Thankyou, I think so too.

    Aren't you really just backing up my point? The real issue here is he's not a "real" gay because he's a Trump-supporter, that's why the vitriol is so high. Nothing else in that article justifies it.
    The German reaction to him suggests otherwise.
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981
    edited February 2020

    eadric said:

    Re COVID - 19 I should be worried at my age and with health issues but frankly I am not the least bit concerned, nor is my 80 year old wife, though we both have concerns for the likely economic outcomes across the globe

    And we are not stupid or dead !!!

    Coronavirus is unlikely to take you even if it scythes across the UK, it only kills about 15% of the over 80 year olds it infects. What should concern you is the intense and unforeseeable ripple effects: the potential economic slump, the cracking of health systems, the societal reaction to mass quarantine.

    Who knows where this goes.

    I do share your concern on the economic impact which is becoming increasingly obvious, though I am not sure anyone can do anything to avert it

    "I am not sure anyone can do anything to avert it"

    This is an appropiate responce to the above for TSE and his Oxford ancient greek and latin comments on the previous threads:

    Σὺν Ἀθηνᾷ καὶ σὺ χεῖρα κίνει
    Aesop

    There is also a paragraph from Herodotus about common colds.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,876
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Anyone who isn't now worried about coronavirus, as I was worried a week ago, is either stupid or already dead from coronavirus


    https://twitter.com/HelenBranswell/status/1230829831732023297?s=20

    I'm not worried. More likely to be in a road traffic accident than struck down by coronavirus.
    Your complacency is *interesting*

    While sober analysis of the outbreak suggests serious concern is warranted, if everyone were to react like you, the economy would already have crashed, and doctors wouldn't be turning up for work...
  • I’ve had relationships that have lasted shorter than the Iowa count.

    Let's face it, you've probably had relationships that have lasted shorter than the Sunderland count.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,407

    How do you all pronounce data?

    Is it data or data?

    Or as the Australians say darrrrrrrrr-ta.
    LOL, not just me who works with Aussies.

    Darrter.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,276
    edited February 2020

    I agree with a voucher but I disagree with the idea that all schools should have the same fee. I also don't see a difference between paying a premium for school fees, or paying a premium for out of school tuition or anything else. What difference is there?

    Hang on. You're immediately wonking away from the core vision. If the schools are going to charge different fees, what we will get is some of them charging top dollar - e.g. ten times the voucher - which only rich people can afford. These schools will then use their consequently much greater resource to become vastly superior to the others, and we get the old vicious circle again, the few floating above the many. Big fee income from rich people creates the best schools that only rich people can afford. This is NOT open and fair competition. It's just ring-fencing the best for the richest. An educational gated community. It's the exact thing that we are wonking to get rid of.

    No, same fees is integral. Our wonk is (sadly) over if this is not accepted.

    Then your (good) question. The difference between out of school and in school is in the description. We will have a level playing field on schools (and cut throat competition leading to ever higher standards) and in addition to this parents will be able to do whatever they wish to improve the hearts and minds of their children in the (limited) time available outside of the school day and of term time. It's a lovely mix of egalitarian and libertarian.

    But plenty more to think about. Geographical aspects, for example.

    Ready to move on in a warm and constructive spirit?
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited February 2020
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    (FPT)

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    And no there have been no openly gay vice presidents.

    You didn't specify openly.
    No one can ever specify enough to stop a lefty trying to wriggle out of their own contradictions.

    So why aren't you celebrating the first openly gay man getting this position?
    Presumably because of his miserable character and utter unsuitability for the post ?
    Yeah but you could say the same about Hillary...
    With considerably less justification, of course you could.
    The point is if only gays/women with the "right" opinions count then it's an attitude which is homophobic/sexist itself.
    And mine that someone's gender status ought to be irrelevant when their appointment is being justifiably critiqued.
    But how do you know the criticism of Grenell isn't motivated by homophobia?
    Now you're just being silly.
    You were reacting to a post which was quite clear why he wasn't qualified.
    The Wapo article? It's not even journalism, just partisan nonsense.

    They despise Grenell because he harms the Democrat narrative.
    Your mind reading skills are awesome.

    The reason he's despised - a position shared by most German politicians, who won't even meet with him as ambassador for fear of damaging their electoral odds - is that he's a hardline Trump partisan.
    Which would be quite understandable in many administration posts, but is a distinct drawback in adequately filling either of the two roles he now has simultaneously:
    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/20/senate-republicans-richard-grenell-acting-intelligence-chief-116327
    Thankyou, I think so too.

    Aren't you really just backing up my point? The real issue here is he's not a "real" gay because he's a Trump-supporter, that's why the vitriol is so high. Nothing else in that article justifies it.
    The German reaction to him suggests otherwise.
    Ha, this vitriol is all because he pissed off some Germans with a few home truths. Sure.



  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,876

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    (FPT)

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    And no there have been no openly gay vice presidents.

    You didn't specify openly.
    No one can ever specify enough to stop a lefty trying to wriggle out of their own contradictions.

    So why aren't you celebrating the first openly gay man getting this position?
    Presumably because of his miserable character and utter unsuitability for the post ?
    Yeah but you could say the same about Hillary...
    With considerably less justification, of course you could.
    The point is if only gays/women with the "right" opinions count then it's an attitude which is homophobic/sexist itself.
    And mine that someone's gender status ought to be irrelevant when their appointment is being justifiably critiqued.
    But how do you know the criticism of Grenell isn't motivated by homophobia?
    Now you're just being silly.
    You were reacting to a post which was quite clear why he wasn't qualified.
    The Wapo article? It's not even journalism, just partisan nonsense.

    They despise Grenell because he harms the Democrat narrative.
    Your mind reading skills are awesome.

    The reason he's despised - a position shared by most German politicians, who won't even meet with him as ambassador for fear of damaging their electoral odds - is that he's a hardline Trump partisan.
    Which would be quite understandable in many administration posts, but is a distinct drawback in adequately filling either of the two roles he now has simultaneously:
    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/20/senate-republicans-richard-grenell-acting-intelligence-chief-116327
    Thankyou, I think so too.

    Aren't you really just backing up my point? The real issue here is he's not a "real" gay because he's a Trump-supporter, that's why the vitriol is so high. Nothing else in that article justifies it.
    The German reaction to him suggests otherwise.
    Ha, this vitriol is all because he pissed off some Germans with a few home truths. Sure.
    Clearly you're on board with the project, so there's no a great deal of point in pursuing this.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,644

    How do you all pronounce data?

    Is it data or data?

    Or as the Australians say darrrrrrrrr-ta.
    Send them a meee-mo to set them straight.
  • Nigelb said:

    How do you all pronounce data?

    Is it data or data?

    Or as the Australians say darrrrrrrrr-ta.
    I’m a daytah man, people who say dah-tah are monsters.
    Quite.

    Who would say dartabase ?
    Aussies and Kiwis say dahta (which they store in dahtabases). I can't remember if we used to, but certainly now we follow America with dayta (and daytabases). My French colleague pronounces data to rhyme with batter.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,876
    eadric said:

    Nigelb said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Anyone who isn't now worried about coronavirus, as I was worried a week ago, is either stupid or already dead from coronavirus


    https://twitter.com/HelenBranswell/status/1230829831732023297?s=20

    I'm not worried. More likely to be in a road traffic accident than struck down by coronavirus.
    Your complacency is *interesting*

    While sober analysis of the outbreak suggests serious concern is warranted, if everyone were to react like you, the economy would already have crashed, and doctors wouldn't be turning up for work...
    Yeah, but when the real emergency strikes, it will be bipolar drunken fear-mongerers like me who get out alive, because we panicked FIRST. Meanwhile all the boring sane sober people like you will be dead.

    So there's that.
    I'm not convinced an excess of adrenaline and/or cortisol modulates the immune response to the virus in quite that manner...
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981

    Have we any information on how long this recount will take?

    They have to legally do something by March 21st, when it's the Iowa County Conventions to start to assign the delegates.

    June 13th is the last practicle day when the Iowa Democratic Convention has to elect the delegates to the National Convention.

    If they fail, then Iowa will not be represented or the whole process will have to be rerun from the start.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,407
    Nigelb said:

    Four coronavirus deaths in Iran would tend to imply well over a hundred existing infections, going back at least a couple of weeks - most of which have not been identified:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-51582186
    ...The virus has also spread in Iran, which reported two further deaths among 13 new cases, bringing the total number of deaths there to four.
    Lebanon also announced its first confirmed case.
    In Iran the outbreak is centred on the holy city of Qom, south of the capital Tehran, but health ministry official Minou Mohrez said the virus may already have spread to "all cities in Iran".
    The case in Lebanon was a 45-year-old woman who had travelled from Qom, Lebanese Health Minister Hassan Hamad said.
    World Health Organization (WHO) officials said both Iran and Lebanon had the basic capacity to detect the virus and the WHO was contacting them to offer further assistance.
    "The measures China and others have taken have given us a fighting chance of containing the spread of the virus," WHO chief Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said.
    "Our window of opportunity is narrowing so we need to act quickly," he added.
    What is the latest in South Korea?
    The southern cities of Daegu and Cheongdo have been declared "special care zones". The streets of Daegu are now largely abandoned.
    All military bases are in lockdown after three soldiers tested positive....


    It's impossible to say what the extent of this particular virus will end up being, but it is certainly not now under control.

    There’s no way it’s close to under control in Iran. They’ve only said anything because people have died and the authorities had no choice, there’s likely to have been dozens of infected people there for weeks. Seriously worrying.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,342
    Nigelb said:

    Four coronavirus deaths in Iran would tend to imply well over a hundred existing infections, going back at least a couple of weeks - most of which have not been identified:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-51582186
    ...The virus has also spread in Iran, which reported two further deaths among 13 new cases, bringing the total number of deaths there to four.
    Lebanon also announced its first confirmed case.
    In Iran the outbreak is centred on the holy city of Qom, south of the capital Tehran, but health ministry official Minou Mohrez said the virus may already have spread to "all cities in Iran".
    The case in Lebanon was a 45-year-old woman who had travelled from Qom, Lebanese Health Minister Hassan Hamad said.
    World Health Organization (WHO) officials said both Iran and Lebanon had the basic capacity to detect the virus and the WHO was contacting them to offer further assistance.
    "The measures China and others have taken have given us a fighting chance of containing the spread of the virus," WHO chief Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said.
    "Our window of opportunity is narrowing so we need to act quickly," he added.
    What is the latest in South Korea?
    The southern cities of Daegu and Cheongdo have been declared "special care zones". The streets of Daegu are now largely abandoned.
    All military bases are in lockdown after three soldiers tested positive....


    It's impossible to say what the extent of this particular virus will end up being, but it is certainly not now under control.

    Either there is something peculiar about Iranian physiognomy or they have hundreds of cases of which they seem to have actually found a handful. Not great.
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123
    Slowly but surely those who are too cool for school about coronavirus will wake up. I just hope the civil service and the government are awake and have a damn good plan in place.

    I've bought my own FFP3 masks. I'd suggest if people are worried they do the same, the stock, whatever is left, won't be around for too long.

    2020 will make all the crying about Brexit look like decadent madness.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,876

    Nigelb said:

    How do you all pronounce data?

    Is it data or data?

    Or as the Australians say darrrrrrrrr-ta.
    I’m a daytah man, people who say dah-tah are monsters.
    Quite.

    Who would say dartabase ?
    Aussies and Kiwis say dahta (which they store in dahtabases). I can't remember if we used to, but certainly now we follow America with dayta (and daytabases). My French colleague pronounces data to rhyme with batter.
    Though in the US, it's more like dayduh.
  • Mr. L, only heard a tiny bit of this and it was months ago, but heard that there was a shortage of water in a number of Iranian cities. If that was accurate, it could mean compromised immune systems (others here will know better than me on that but I'd be surprised if water shortages don't weaken resistance to disease).
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,876

    Slowly but surely those who are too cool for school about coronavirus will wake up. I just hope the civil service and the government are awake and have a damn good plan in place.

    I've bought my own FFP3 masks. I'd suggest if people are worried they do the same, the stock, whatever is left, won't be around for too long.

    2020 will make all the crying about Brexit look like decadent madness.

    Masks are going to do very little for you. You're better off washing hands frequently and getting adequate sleep.

    The authorities should be very concerned indeed, and I hope they are more worried than they are publicly admitting.
  • Mr. Eadric, think you mean 750m*.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,407
    kinabalu said:

    I agree with a voucher but I disagree with the idea that all schools should have the same fee. I also don't see a difference between paying a premium for school fees, or paying a premium for out of school tuition or anything else. What difference is there?

    Hang on. You're immediately wonking away from the core vision. If the schools are going to charge different fees, what we will get is some of them charging top dollar - e.g. ten times the voucher - which only rich people can afford. These schools will then use their consequently much greater resource to become vastly superior to the others, and we get the old vicious circle again, the few floating above the many. Big fee income from rich people creates the best schools that only rich people can afford. This is NOT open and fair competition. It's just ring-fencing the best for the richest. An educational gated community. It's the exact thing that we are wonking to get rid of.

    No, same fees is integral. Our wonk is (sadly) over if this is not accepted.

    Then your (good) question. The difference between out of school and in school is in the description. We will have a level playing field on schools (and cut throat competition leading to ever higher standards) and in addition to this parents will be able to do whatever they wish to improve the hearts and minds of their children in the (limited) time available outside of the school day and of term time. It's a lovely mix of egalitarian and libertarian.

    But plenty more to think about. Geographical aspects, for example.

    Ready to move on in a warm and constructive spirit?
    How’s about the parents who choose not to participate, and instead home school a group of kids with their own private tutor?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    .
    eadric said:

    In all seriousness, the way our media is reacting to coronavirus is just BIZARRE

    We have no idea where this is going, it COULD be a tragic global pandemic like Spanish flu, or it could fizzle out. The signs are not good, but nor are they desperate, yet.

    However what we do know is this: one tenth of all humanity is in some kind of quarantine. 150m people, = the population of the UK and Germany, are in actual lockdown.

    Several countries are declaring medical emergencies. Including Japan and South Korea, two huge and important economies. Business in China has basically stopped: car sales are down 90%. That's the world's biggest car market. The Olympics may be cancelled.

    Air travel has almost ceased in parts of the planet. Tourism is tumbling worldwide. A billion people are wearing masks.

    And so on, and so forth.

    This is so very clearly THE most important news story of the day. It dwarfs everything else.

    On the BBC it is hidden away as a third rank story, underneath "Dot Cotton's 10 most iconic Eastenders moments"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/

    The Guardian is no better, squirrelling it away bottom right, with more emphasis on the Weinstein Trial and Bad British Weather.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk

    Truly odd.

    I dont think any of the audience mentioned it on QT last night either

    Some things are too big to discuss!
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123
    eadric said:

    In all seriousness, the way our media is reacting to coronavirus is just BIZARRE

    We have no idea where this is going, it COULD be a tragic global pandemic like Spanish flu, or it could fizzle out. The signs are not good, but nor are they desperate, yet.

    However what we do know is this: one tenth of all humanity is in some kind of quarantine. 150m people, = the population of the UK and Germany, are in actual lockdown.

    Several countries are declaring medical emergencies. Including Japan and South Korea, two huge and important economies. Business in China has basically stopped: car sales are down 90%. That's the world's biggest car market. The Olympics may be cancelled.

    Air travel has almost ceased in parts of the planet. Tourism is tumbling worldwide. A billion people are wearing masks.

    And so on, and so forth.

    This is so very clearly THE most important news story of the day. It dwarfs everything else.

    On the BBC it is hidden away as a third rank story, underneath "Dot Cotton's 10 most iconic Eastenders moments"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/

    The Guardian is no better, squirrelling it away bottom right, with more emphasis on the Weinstein Trial and Bad British Weather.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk

    Truly odd.

    Odd or calculated?

    It's quite likely that people are just not very good at judging risk. This is a betting site so it should be better here than most places. But there is a willful blindness to this issue. It can't be that bad etc..
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123
    Nigelb said:

    Slowly but surely those who are too cool for school about coronavirus will wake up. I just hope the civil service and the government are awake and have a damn good plan in place.

    I've bought my own FFP3 masks. I'd suggest if people are worried they do the same, the stock, whatever is left, won't be around for too long.

    2020 will make all the crying about Brexit look like decadent madness.

    Masks are going to do very little for you. You're better off washing hands frequently and getting adequate sleep.

    The authorities should be very concerned indeed, and I hope they are more worried than they are publicly admitting.
    Why would an FFP3 mask not do anything for me?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,876
    eadric said:

    isam said:

    .

    eadric said:

    In all seriousness, the way our media is reacting to coronavirus is just BIZARRE

    We have no idea where this is going, it COULD be a tragic global pandemic like Spanish flu, or it could fizzle out. The signs are not good, but nor are they desperate, yet.

    However what we do know is this: one tenth of all humanity is in some kind of quarantine. 150m people, = the population of the UK and Germany, are in actual lockdown.

    Several countries are declaring medical emergencies. Including Japan and South Korea, two huge and important economies. Business in China has basically stopped: car sales are down 90%. That's the world's biggest car market. The Olympics may be cancelled.

    Air travel has almost ceased in parts of the planet. Tourism is tumbling worldwide. A billion people are wearing masks.

    And so on, and so forth.

    This is so very clearly THE most important news story of the day. It dwarfs everything else.

    On the BBC it is hidden away as a third rank story, underneath "Dot Cotton's 10 most iconic Eastenders moments"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/

    The Guardian is no better, squirrelling it away bottom right, with more emphasis on the Weinstein Trial and Bad British Weather.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk

    Truly odd.

    I dont think any of the audience mentioned it on QT last night either

    Some things are too big to discuss!
    Is it possible British media have been told to underplay this, so as to prevent panic?

    Otherwise I find it incomprehensible.
    Well the Guardian have been maintaining pretty well continuous live reporting on it, as have the BBC.

    If the Mail were to go all eadric, with "WE"RE ALL GOING TO DIE" in 72pt bold, it wouldn't do all that much to help.
  • eadric said:

    Is it possible British media have been told to underplay this, so as to prevent panic?

    Otherwise I find it incomprehensible.

    Why is it incomprehensible? It's last week's news. The media want novelty in their stories, not the same headline 'More cases found and a few more people die of coronavirus' every day.

    For that matter they are right that it's not news. We now all know the virus is spreading, that it can occasionally be fatal, and that so far there are hardly any cases in Europe.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,342
    Wuhan is building 19 more "makeshift" hospitals. Half as many as Boris is planning for the UK. Wonder what will be built first?
    https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/coronavirus-wuhan-to-activate-one-more-temporary-hospital-with-3690-beds

    Even Communist dictators feel the need at times to be seen to be doing something but is this consistent with the virus being under control?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,276
    edited February 2020
    Sandpit said:

    How’s about the parents who choose not to participate, and instead home school a group of kids with their own private tutor?

    I see what you're doing there. I say Yes to that and then bang there's a follow up -

    "So then they will just create their own private schools, won't they?"

    So it's a No. Home schooling allowed only in very precise and restricted circumstances. As in Germany.

    No offence at all - it's fine - but I sense that you are hellbent on wonking a way out of this idea. Why? Because you don't want an omelette.
  • Mr. Eadric, ah, you're right, I slightly misread your post.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,394
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    In all seriousness, the way our media is reacting to coronavirus is just BIZARRE

    We have no idea where this is going, it COULD be a tragic global pandemic like Spanish flu, or it could fizzle out. The signs are not good, but nor are they desperate, yet.

    However what we do know is this: one tenth of all humanity is in some kind of quarantine. 150m people, = the population of the UK and Germany, are in actual lockdown.

    Several countries are declaring medical emergencies. Including Japan and South Korea, two huge and important economies. Business in China has basically stopped: car sales are down 90%. That's the world's biggest car market. The Olympics may be cancelled.

    Air travel has almost ceased in parts of the planet. Tourism is tumbling worldwide. A billion people are wearing masks.

    And so on, and so forth.

    This is so very clearly THE most important news story of the day. It dwarfs everything else.

    On the BBC it is hidden away as a third rank story, underneath "Dot Cotton's 10 most iconic Eastenders moments"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/

    The Guardian is no better, squirrelling it away bottom right, with more emphasis on the Weinstein Trial and Bad British Weather.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk

    Truly odd.

    Odd or calculated?

    It's quite likely that people are just not very good at judging risk. This is a betting site so it should be better here than most places. But there is a willful blindness to this issue. It can't be that bad etc..
    I remember when 9/11 happened - I coincidentally had my TV on and saw the second plane hit, live. I was bewildered (like many). Then I realised how appalling this was, an obvious attack, and I rushed upstairs to tell my flatmate.

    She turned on the TV, looked at the footage (which was being constantly replayed). Then she went silent, and turned the TV off, and went back to her knitting.

    It was so momentous she couldn't compute it and didn't want to think about it.

    Obviously coronavirus is nowhere near as serious as 9/11, and hopefully never will be, but I wonder if there is a human reaction to mighty tragedy, to simply avert one's face and pretend it isn't there.
    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00478-7
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,524
    I am very confused by the announcement on stoves and fires today. There will be a ban on buying wet wood under 2 cu metres and then it has to have instructions on seasoning. You will not be allowed to burn wet wood.

    Who the hell burns wet wood?

    I have 2 stoves in our main house and I'm about to install a stove in our second house. So far I have got all my wood from my garden and I season it myself. If and when I do run out I will approach a tree surgeon for wet wood they don't want and season it myself because I have the space.

    Wood that is sold commercially for burning in home stoves is always seasoned. Most people don't have the space to season their own wood. They are saying it must be seasoned in kilns. Why? That just speeds up the process but wastes energy and pollutes.

    99% of people do what is required (re wood) anyway and those that don't are those that can season anyway. Nobody burns wet wood (Ash is one wood that can be burnt wet, but why would you?).

    Confused.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited February 2020

    eadric said:

    Is it possible British media have been told to underplay this, so as to prevent panic?

    Otherwise I find it incomprehensible.

    Why is it incomprehensible? It's last week's news. The media want novelty in their stories, not the same headline 'More cases found and a few more people die of coronavirus' every day.

    For that matter they are right that it's not news. We now all know the virus is spreading, that it can occasionally be fatal, and that so far there are hardly any cases in Europe.
    I'm not sure that's true, the Beeb are still going on and on about the bloody cruise ship.


    I can understand reluctance to sensationalise, but in a day and age when people are going to find out from dodgy twitter accounts anyway it would probably be better to be as open and current with the facts as possible. E.g. lots of fake stuff about Iran going around.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,052
    And yet this virus is clearly a tiny threat compared with global overheating so why not ask why news organisations aren't leading with that story.

    Tho you can find this story in today's guardian

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/feb/21/jp-morgan-economists-warn-climate-crisis-threat-human-race
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,276
    Cookie said:

    A new verb 'to wonk'.
    But quite positive to see someone so firmly on the left come up with some imaginative proposals here. I think there's some good ideas to be explored.

    :smile:

    Trying to persuade and collude rather than berate and oppose.

    Because when different sides wonk together - which they rarely do - it can produce something pleasant and surprising.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,519
    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    I think you are holding your own in your conversation with Phil. Well done!

    I sense that someone is developing a little crush on me! Like a photo?
    Zing
  • eadric said:

    Is it possible British media have been told to underplay this, so as to prevent panic?

    Otherwise I find it incomprehensible.

    Why is it incomprehensible? It's last week's news. The media want novelty in their stories, not the same headline 'More cases found and a few more people die of coronavirus' every day.

    For that matter they are right that it's not news. We now all know the virus is spreading, that it can occasionally be fatal, and that so far there are hardly any cases in Europe.
    I'm not sure that's true, the Beeb are still going on and on about the bloody cruise ship.

    I can understand reluctance to sensationalise, but in a day and age when people are going to find out from dodgy twitter accounts anyway it would probably be better to be as open and current with the facts as possible.
    Well, yes, the media are still covering it, and quite extensively. But @eadric seems to want the full Daniel Defoe experience with it being the top story every day.
  • eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Is it possible British media have been told to underplay this, so as to prevent panic?

    Otherwise I find it incomprehensible.

    Why is it incomprehensible? It's last week's news. The media want novelty in their stories, not the same headline 'More cases found and a few more people die of coronavirus' every day.

    For that matter they are right that it's not news. We now all know the virus is spreading, that it can occasionally be fatal, and that so far there are hardly any cases in Europe.
    This comment is so peculiar is is pathological.

    It reminds me strongly of Rogerdamus' infamous reaction to the first bank run in Britain at the start of the Great Recession - "this will all be forgotten by Monday morning".

    That article by Jonathan in Nature (not known for panic) has the measure of this:


    "The outbreak of a new coronavirus is wreaking havoc worldwide. In China, the epicentre of the epidemic, the virus has infected tens of thousands of people and killed more than 2,100. Unprecedented measures meant to contain the spread have brought millions of daily lives to a halt, and the effects have touched economies and global supply chains."
    You don't think I'm right that the media want novelty in their news stories?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,519
    Nigelb said:

    eadric said:

    isam said:

    .

    eadric said:

    In all seriousness, the way our media is reacting to coronavirus is just BIZARRE

    We have no idea where this is going, it COULD be a tragic global pandemic like Spanish flu, or it could fizzle out. The signs are not good, but nor are they desperate, yet.

    However what we do know is this: one tenth of all humanity is in some kind of quarantine. 150m people, = the population of the UK and Germany, are in actual lockdown.

    Several countries are declaring medical emergencies. Including Japan and South Korea, two huge and important economies. Business in China has basically stopped: car sales are down 90%. That's the world's biggest car market. The Olympics may be cancelled.

    Air travel has almost ceased in parts of the planet. Tourism is tumbling worldwide. A billion people are wearing masks.

    And so on, and so forth.

    This is so very clearly THE most important news story of the day. It dwarfs everything else.

    On the BBC it is hidden away as a third rank story, underneath "Dot Cotton's 10 most iconic Eastenders moments"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/

    The Guardian is no better, squirrelling it away bottom right, with more emphasis on the Weinstein Trial and Bad British Weather.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk

    Truly odd.

    I dont think any of the audience mentioned it on QT last night either

    Some things are too big to discuss!
    Is it possible British media have been told to underplay this, so as to prevent panic?

    Otherwise I find it incomprehensible.
    Well the Guardian have been maintaining pretty well continuous live reporting on it, as have the BBC.

    If the Mail were to go all eadric, with "WE"RE ALL GOING TO DIE" in 72pt bold, it wouldn't do all that much to help.
    I find it very strange. It is either "WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE ABANDON HOPE" or "JUST A TEENSY BIT WORSE THAN THE EVERYDAY COMMON COLD".

    Frankly, aside from the measured and sensible reporting we are seeing on most of our media, I am amazed that they seem to be playing this crazy waiting game.
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123
    edited February 2020
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Is it possible British media have been told to underplay this, so as to prevent panic?

    Otherwise I find it incomprehensible.

    Why is it incomprehensible? It's last week's news. The media want novelty in their stories, not the same headline 'More cases found and a few more people die of coronavirus' every day.

    For that matter they are right that it's not news. We now all know the virus is spreading, that it can occasionally be fatal, and that so far there are hardly any cases in Europe.
    This comment is so peculiar is is pathological.

    It reminds me strongly of Rogerdamus' infamous reaction to the first bank run in Britain at the start of the Great Recession - "this will all be forgotten by Monday morning".

    That article by Jonathan in Nature (not known for panic) has the measure of this:


    "The outbreak of a new coronavirus is wreaking havoc worldwide. In China, the epicentre of the epidemic, the virus has infected tens of thousands of people and killed more than 2,100. Unprecedented measures meant to contain the spread have brought millions of daily lives to a halt, and the effects have touched economies and global supply chains."
    To a certain degree you are a bit the boy who cried wolf on this. But those mocking you need to remember the story.

    But I am with you 100% in terms of your analysis and putting my affairs in order as a consequence.
  • eekeek Posts: 27,536
    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    eadric said:

    isam said:

    .

    eadric said:

    In all seriousness, the way our media is reacting to coronavirus is just BIZARRE

    We have no idea where this is going, it COULD be a tragic global pandemic like Spanish flu, or it could fizzle out. The signs are not good, but nor are they desperate, yet.

    However what we do know is this: one tenth of all humanity is in some kind of quarantine. 150m people, = the population of the UK and Germany, are in actual lockdown.

    Several countries are declaring medical emergencies. Including Japan and South Korea, two huge and important economies. Business in China has basically stopped: car sales are down 90%. That's the world's biggest car market. The Olympics may be cancelled.

    Air travel has almost ceased in parts of the planet. Tourism is tumbling worldwide. A billion people are wearing masks.

    And so on, and so forth.

    This is so very clearly THE most important news story of the day. It dwarfs everything else.

    On the BBC it is hidden away as a third rank story, underneath "Dot Cotton's 10 most iconic Eastenders moments"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/

    The Guardian is no better, squirrelling it away bottom right, with more emphasis on the Weinstein Trial and Bad British Weather.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk

    Truly odd.

    I dont think any of the audience mentioned it on QT last night either

    Some things are too big to discuss!
    Is it possible British media have been told to underplay this, so as to prevent panic?

    Otherwise I find it incomprehensible.
    Well the Guardian have been maintaining pretty well continuous live reporting on it, as have the BBC.

    If the Mail were to go all eadric, with "WE"RE ALL GOING TO DIE" in 72pt bold, it wouldn't do all that much to help.
    I find it very strange. It is either "WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE ABANDON HOPE" or "JUST A TEENSY BIT WORSE THAN THE EVERYDAY COMMON COLD".

    Frankly, aside from the measured and sensible reporting we are seeing on most of our media, I am amazed that they seem to be playing this crazy waiting game.
    Why? At the moment it's a waiting game because even though it looks like it's going to break out worldwide it hasn't yet. And even when it does it will take a while before it hits everyone.

    Now whether it hibernates through the summer or everything kicks off in April we don't know but it's still a waiting game and you can't spend weeks reporting on people waiting.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,519
    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    eadric said:

    isam said:

    .

    eadric said:

    In all seriousness, the way our media is reacting to coronavirus is just BIZARRE

    We have no idea where this is going, it COULD be a tragic global pandemic like Spanish flu, or it could fizzle out. The signs are not good, but nor are they desperate, yet.

    However what we do know is this: one tenth of all humanity is in some kind of quarantine. 150m people, = the population of the UK and Germany, are in actual lockdown.

    Several countries are declaring medical emergencies. Including Japan and South Korea, two huge and important economies. Business in China has basically stopped: car sales are down 90%. That's the world's biggest car market. The Olympics may be cancelled.

    Air travel has almost ceased in parts of the planet. Tourism is tumbling worldwide. A billion people are wearing masks.

    And so on, and so forth.

    This is so very clearly THE most important news story of the day. It dwarfs everything else.

    On the BBC it is hidden away as a third rank story, underneath "Dot Cotton's 10 most iconic Eastenders moments"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/

    The Guardian is no better, squirrelling it away bottom right, with more emphasis on the Weinstein Trial and Bad British Weather.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk

    Truly odd.

    I dont think any of the audience mentioned it on QT last night either

    Some things are too big to discuss!
    Is it possible British media have been told to underplay this, so as to prevent panic?

    Otherwise I find it incomprehensible.
    Well the Guardian have been maintaining pretty well continuous live reporting on it, as have the BBC.

    If the Mail were to go all eadric, with "WE"RE ALL GOING TO DIE" in 72pt bold, it wouldn't do all that much to help.
    I find it very strange. It is either "WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE ABANDON HOPE" or "JUST A TEENSY BIT WORSE THAN THE EVERYDAY COMMON COLD".

    Frankly, aside from the measured and sensible reporting we are seeing on most of our media, I am amazed that they seem to be playing this crazy waiting game.
    Why? At the moment it's a waiting game because even though it looks like it's going to break out worldwide it hasn't yet. And even when it does it will take a while before it hits everyone.

    Now whether it hibernates through the summer or everything kicks off in April we don't know but it's still a waiting game and you can't spend weeks reporting on people waiting.
    Hmm my literary skills not quite up to @SeanT I see.
  • eadric said:

    Nigelb said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Anyone who isn't now worried about coronavirus, as I was worried a week ago, is either stupid or already dead from coronavirus


    https://twitter.com/HelenBranswell/status/1230829831732023297?s=20

    I'm not worried. More likely to be in a road traffic accident than struck down by coronavirus.
    Your complacency is *interesting*

    While sober analysis of the outbreak suggests serious concern is warranted, if everyone were to react like you, the economy would already have crashed, and doctors wouldn't be turning up for work...
    Yeah, but when the real emergency strikes, it will be bipolar drunken fear-mongerers like me who get out alive, because we panicked FIRST. Meanwhile all the boring sane sober people like you will be dead.

    So there's that.
    But, you didn’t just panic first. You come on here several times a day to publicly shit your pants - repeatedly.

    You’re the guy who’d be put out of his misery or sent to the rear in a straight-jacket, if you’d been in the trenches: no-one wants to hear, “OH MY GOD, WE’RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!” several times a day.

    It does no-one any good.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,052
    eadric said:

    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    eadric said:

    isam said:

    .

    eadric said:

    In all seriousness, the way our media is reacting to coronavirus is just BIZARRE

    We have no idea where this is going, it COULD be a tragic global pandemic like Spanish flu, or it could fizzle out. The signs are not good, but nor are they desperate, yet.

    However what we do know is this: one tenth of all humanity is in some kind of quarantine. 150m people, = the population of the UK and Germany, are in actual lockdown.

    Several countries are declaring medical emergencies. Including Japan and South Korea, two huge and img masks.

    And so on, and so forth.

    This is so very clearly THE most important news story of the day. It dwarfs everything else.

    On the BBC it is hidden away as a third rank story, underneath "Dot Cotton's 10 most iconic Eastenders moments"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/

    The Guardian is no better, squirrelling it away bottom right, with more emphasis on the Weinstein Trial and Bad British Weather.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk

    Truly odd.

    I dont think any of the audience mentioned it on QT last night either

    Some things are too big to discuss!
    Is it possible British media have been told to underplay this, so as to prevent panic?

    Otherwise I find it incomprehensible.
    Well the Guardian have been maintaining pretty well continuous live reporting on it, as have the BBC.

    If the Mail were to go all eadric, with "WE"RE ALL GOING TO DIE" in 72pt bold, it wouldn't do all that much to help.
    I find it very strange. It is either "WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE ABANDON HOPE" or "JUST A TEENSY BIT WORSE THAN THE EVERYDAY COMMON COLD".

    Frankly, aside from the measured and sensible reporting we are seeing on most of our media, I am amazed that they seem to be playing this crazy waiting game.
    Why? At the moment it's a waiting game because even though it looks like it's going to break out worldwide it hasn't yet. And even when it does it will take a while before it hits everyone.

    Now whether it hibernates through the summer or everything kicks off in April we don't know but it's still a waiting game and you can't spend weeks reporting on people waiting.
    OK, look at it another way. Think of the videos of people being welded into their homes in China. And all the other terrifying videos from China.

    They make brilliant TV (in a terrible, shocking way) yet NONE of this is reaching mainstream media. I cannot be alone in finding this a tiny bit weird?
    Maybe because people aren't being welded into their homes
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,659
    kjh said:

    I am very confused by the announcement on stoves and fires today. There will be a ban on buying wet wood under 2 cu metres and then it has to have instructions on seasoning. You will not be allowed to burn wet wood.

    Who the hell burns wet wood?

    I have 2 stoves in our main house and I'm about to install a stove in our second house. So far I have got all my wood from my garden and I season it myself. If and when I do run out I will approach a tree surgeon for wet wood they don't want and season it myself because I have the space.

    Wood that is sold commercially for burning in home stoves is always seasoned. Most people don't have the space to season their own wood. They are saying it must be seasoned in kilns. Why? That just speeds up the process but wastes energy and pollutes.

    99% of people do what is required (re wood) anyway and those that don't are those that can season anyway. Nobody burns wet wood (Ash is one wood that can be burnt wet, but why would you?).

    Confused.

    Not really, Wood burning stoves, along with diesel vehicles, are two of the main sources for PM pollution in the air we are breathing and this is the problem the Government is finally trying to address.

    It's all very well banging on about being green and how much power is generated from renewables but the real issue is air quality in our towns and cities and in particular the levels of Particulate Matter Pollution and especially those particles below 2.5 micrometers in diameter.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,519
    eadric said:

    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    eadric said:

    isam said:

    .

    eadric said:

    In all seriousness, the way our media is reacting to coronavirus is just BIZARRE

    We have no idea where this is going, it COULD be a tragic global pandemic like Spanish flu, or it could fizzle out. The signs are not good, but nor are they desperate, yet.

    However what we do know is this: one tenth of all humanity is in some kind of quarantine. 150m people, = the population of the UK and Germany, are in actual lockdown.

    Several countries are declaring medical emergencies. Including Japan and South Korea, two huge and img masks.

    And so on, and so forth.

    This is so very clearly THE most important news story of the day. It dwarfs everything else.

    On the BBC it is hidden away as a third rank story, underneath "Dot Cotton's 10 most iconic Eastenders moments"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/

    The Guardian is no better, squirrelling it away bottom right, with more emphasis on the Weinstein Trial and Bad British Weather.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk

    Truly odd.

    I dont think any of the audience mentioned it on QT last night either

    Some things are too big to discuss!
    Is it possible British media have been told to underplay this, so as to prevent panic?

    Otherwise I find it incomprehensible.
    Well the Guardian have been maintaining pretty well continuous live reporting on it, as have the BBC.

    If the Mail were to go all eadric, with "WE"RE ALL GOING TO DIE" in 72pt bold, it wouldn't do all that much to help.
    I find it very strange. It is either "WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE ABANDON HOPE" or "JUST A TEENSY BIT WORSE THAN THE EVERYDAY COMMON COLD".

    Frankly, aside from the measured and sensible reporting we are seeing on most of our media, I am amazed that they seem to be playing this crazy waiting game.
    Why? At the moment it's a waiting game because even though it looks like it's going to break out worldwide it hasn't yet. And even when it does it will take a while before it hits everyone.

    Now whether it hibernates through the summer or everything kicks off in April we don't know but it's still a waiting game and you can't spend weeks reporting on people waiting.
    OK, look at it another way. Think of the videos of people being welded into their homes in China. And all the other terrifying videos from China.

    They make brilliant TV (in a terrible, shocking way) yet NONE of this is reaching mainstream media. I cannot be alone in finding this a tiny bit weird?
    Exactly! And when was the last time the News at Ten featured a piece on grumpy cats? Eh? I think there's more to this than meets the eye.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,759
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Is it possible British media have been told to underplay this, so as to prevent panic?

    Otherwise I find it incomprehensible.

    Why is it incomprehensible? It's last week's news. The media want novelty in their stories, not the same headline 'More cases found and a few more people die of coronavirus' every day.

    For that matter they are right that it's not news. We now all know the virus is spreading, that it can occasionally be fatal, and that so far there are hardly any cases in Europe.
    This comment is so peculiar is is pathological.

    It reminds me strongly of Rogerdamus' infamous reaction to the first bank run in Britain at the start of the Great Recession - "this will all be forgotten by Monday morning".

    That article by Jonathan in Nature (not known for panic) has the measure of this:


    "The outbreak of a new coronavirus is wreaking havoc worldwide. In China, the epicentre of the epidemic, the virus has infected tens of thousands of people and killed more than 2,100. Unprecedented measures meant to contain the spread have brought millions of daily lives to a halt, and the effects have touched economies and global supply chains."
    To a certain degree you are a bit the boy who cried wolf on this. But those mocking you need to remember the story.

    I am with you 100% on this and putting my own affairs in order as a consequence of my own research.
    Well to be fair I have never hidden the fact that I am excitable idiot that gets high on risk, so I am obviously gonna be the sort that sees wolves everywhere, because dogs are boring.

    But I REALLY see a wolf here. Loping. Towards us,
    That comma at the end there gives added foreboding.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited February 2020
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    In all seriousness, the way our media is reacting to coronavirus is just BIZARRE

    We have no idea where this is going, it COULD be a tragic global pandemic like Spanish flu, or it could fizzle out. The signs are not good, but nor are they desperate, yet.

    However what we do know is this: one tenth of all humanity is in some kind of quarantine. 150m people, = the population of the UK and Germany, are in actual lockdown.

    Several countries are declaring medical emergencies. Including Japan and South Korea, two huge and important economies. Business in China has basically stopped: car sales are down 90%. That's the world's biggest car market. The Olympics may be cancelled.

    Air travel has almost ceased in parts of the planet. Tourism is tumbling worldwide. A billion people are wearing masks.

    And so on, and so forth.

    This is so very clearly THE most important news story of the day. It dwarfs everything else.

    On the BBC it is hidden away as a third rank story, underneath "Dot Cotton's 10 most iconic Eastenders moments"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/

    The Guardian is no better, squirrelling it away bottom right, with more emphasis on the Weinstein Trial and Bad British Weather.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk

    Truly odd.

    Odd or calculated?

    It's quite likely that people are just not very good at judging risk. This is a betting site so it should be better here than most places. But there is a willful blindness to this issue. It can't be that bad etc..
    I remember when 9/11 happened - I coincidentally had my TV on and saw the second plane hit, live. I was bewildered (like many). Then I realised how appalling this was, an obvious attack, and I rushed upstairs to tell my flatmate.

    She turned on the TV, looked at the footage (which was being constantly replayed). Then she went silent, and turned the TV off, and went back to her knitting.

    It was so momentous she couldn't compute it and didn't want to think about it.

    Obviously coronavirus is nowhere near as serious as 9/11, and hopefully never will be, but I wonder if there is a human reaction to mighty tragedy, to simply avert one's face and pretend it isn't there.
    I think there is definitely something in the English/British psyche (probably universal actually) where people react to "AN ASTEROID IS GOING TO HIT PLANET EARTH WHICH WIPES OUT THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE" with "Anyone fancy a cuppa?" but the thought of throwing a poorly attended party brings on a panic attack
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,659


    But, you didn’t just panic first. You come on here several times a day to publicly shit your pants - repeatedly.

    You’re the guy who’d be put out of his misery or sent to the rear in a straight-jacket, if you’d been in the trenches: no-one wants to hear, “OH MY GOD, WE’RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!” several times a day.

    It does no-one any good.

    Seeing as I spent most of my early adult life during the Cold War when we were all nine minutes from death if the missiles were ever launched I don't know how old SeanT survived until 1989.

    Every time he heard a siren he'd be heading for a fallout shelter on Hampstead Heath.

  • eadric said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Is it possible British media have been told to underplay this, so as to prevent panic?

    Otherwise I find it incomprehensible.

    Why is it incomprehensible? It's last week's news. The media want novelty in their stories, not the same headline 'More cases found and a few more people die of coronavirus' every day.

    For that matter they are right that it's not news. We now all know the virus is spreading, that it can occasionally be fatal, and that so far there are hardly any cases in Europe.
    This comment is so peculiar is is pathological.

    It reminds me strongly of Rogerdamus' infamous reaction to the first bank run in Britain at the start of the Great Recession - "this will all be forgotten by Monday morning".

    That article by Jonathan in Nature (not known for panic) has the measure of this:


    "The outbreak of a new coronavirus is wreaking havoc worldwide. In China, the epicentre of the epidemic, the virus has infected tens of thousands of people and killed more than 2,100. Unprecedented measures meant to contain the spread have brought millions of daily lives to a halt, and the effects have touched economies and global supply chains."
    To a certain degree you are a bit the boy who cried wolf on this. But those mocking you need to remember the story.

    I am with you 100% on this and putting my own affairs in order as a consequence of my own research.
    Well to be fair I have never hidden the fact that I am excitable idiot that gets high on risk, so I am obviously gonna be the sort that sees wolves everywhere, because dogs are boring.

    But I REALLY see a wolf here. Loping. Towards us,
    I agree. No way of being even a tad certain about this, but looks and smells bad to me.
  • kjh said:

    I am very confused by the announcement on stoves and fires today. There will be a ban on buying wet wood under 2 cu metres and then it has to have instructions on seasoning. You will not be allowed to burn wet wood.

    Who the hell burns wet wood?

    I have 2 stoves in our main house and I'm about to install a stove in our second house. So far I have got all my wood from my garden and I season it myself. If and when I do run out I will approach a tree surgeon for wet wood they don't want and season it myself because I have the space.

    Wood that is sold commercially for burning in home stoves is always seasoned. Most people don't have the space to season their own wood. They are saying it must be seasoned in kilns. Why? That just speeds up the process but wastes energy and pollutes.

    99% of people do what is required (re wood) anyway and those that don't are those that can season anyway. Nobody burns wet wood (Ash is one wood that can be burnt wet, but why would you?).

    Confused.

    I really think the Government need to be careful about losing public support here.

    Just because you might be able to reduce 80% of 26 different forms of carbon emissions doesn’t mean you should.

    If you can reduce more or less 100% of 12 of those 26 different forms of carbon emissions and those 12 represent 95%+ of the UK’s carbon emissions, then why waste political capital pissing people off going after the other fourteen, which might jeopardise the lot?

    As an example, the Government could ban heritage traction engines and steam railways, because they burn coal. In reality, the emissions they create are so negligible as to make not the slightest difference to anything and banning them would wipe out a huge part of our industrial heritage and piss an enormous number of people off.

    Focus on power, air/sea/road transport, electric infrastructure and primary district air/ground source heating, in my view.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,519
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Nigelb said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Anyone who isn't now worried about coronavirus, as I was worried a week ago, is either stupid or already dead from coronavirus


    https://twitter.com/HelenBranswell/status/1230829831732023297?s=20

    I'm not worried. More likely to be in a road traffic accident than struck down by coronavirus.
    Your complacency is *interesting*

    While sober analysis of the outbreak suggests serious concern is warranted, if everyone were to react like you, the economy would already have crashed, and doctors wouldn't be turning up for work...
    Yeah, but when the real emergency strikes, it will be bipolar drunken fear-mongerers like me who get out alive, because we panicked FIRST. Meanwhile all the boring sane sober people like you will be dead.

    So there's that.
    But, you didn’t just panic first. You come on here several times a day to publicly shit your pants - repeatedly.

    You’re the guy who’d be put out of his misery or sent to the rear in a straight-jacket, if you’d been in the trenches: no-one wants to hear, “OH MY GOD, WE’RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!” several times a day.

    It does no-one any good.
    Well you are free to ignore my prognostications.

    Though anyone who wants to protect their money or assets might perhaps be less complacent.

    And also GLOBAL DEATH is just more interesting than the wage structure of care homes, or the government's plans for wood burning stoves, to anyone "normal". A category which clearly excludes you and others on PB.
    Incorrect. We do have a normal contributor on here. Very useful they are as well. Might ask them their position on GLOBAL DEATH.

    (And btw you have appreciated that GLOBAL DEATH could also be renamed GLOBAL INEVITABLE DEATH but not much point screaming about that.)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,276
    eadric said:

    I remember when 9/11 happened - I coincidentally had my TV on and saw the second plane hit, live. I was bewildered (like many). Then I realised how appalling this was, an obvious attack, and I rushed upstairs to tell my flatmate.

    She turned on the TV, looked at the footage (which was being constantly replayed). Then she went silent, and turned the TV off, and went back to her knitting.

    It was so momentous she couldn't compute it and didn't want to think about it.

    Obviously coronavirus is nowhere near as serious as 9/11, and hopefully never will be, but I wonder if there is a human reaction to mighty tragedy, to simply avert one's face and pretend it isn't there.

    This does happen. It was my reaction to the last genuine tragedy of monumental proportions that we have experienced. Nov 2016. Trump.

    For quite a long time - certainly well into the summer of the following year - I went around pretending that Obama was still the President.

    Only stopped this when friends and family started to get uncomfortable around me.
  • eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Nigelb said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Anyone who isn't now worried about coronavirus, as I was worried a week ago, is either stupid or already dead from coronavirus


    https://twitter.com/HelenBranswell/status/1230829831732023297?s=20

    I'm not worried. More likely to be in a road traffic accident than struck down by coronavirus.
    Your complacency is *interesting*

    While sober analysis of the outbreak suggests serious concern is warranted, if everyone were to react like you, the economy would already have crashed, and doctors wouldn't be turning up for work...
    Yeah, but when the real emergency strikes, it will be bipolar drunken fear-mongerers like me who get out alive, because we panicked FIRST. Meanwhile all the boring sane sober people like you will be dead.

    So there's that.
    But, you didn’t just panic first. You come on here several times a day to publicly shit your pants - repeatedly.

    You’re the guy who’d be put out of his misery or sent to the rear in a straight-jacket, if you’d been in the trenches: no-one wants to hear, “OH MY GOD, WE’RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!” several times a day.

    It does no-one any good.
    Well you are free to ignore my prognostications.

    Though anyone who wants to protect their money or assets might perhaps be less complacent.

    And also GLOBAL DEATH is just more interesting than the wage structure of care homes, or the government's plans for wood burning stoves, to anyone "normal". A category which clearly excludes you and others on PB.
    Well, I’m not because I have to scroll through several dozen of them a day on the threads to get to the comments I want to read about the betting.

    Anyway, I haven’t “ignored” the risk. I’ve stockpiled two weeks of emergency food, water and gas at my home in case national supply chains should be interrupted or we are required to self-isolate and we can’t get deliveries. Just as a precaution.

    But, I don’t feel the need to shout FIRE! in the theatre every day because of it.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited February 2020
    kamski said:


    Maybe because people aren't being welded into their homes

    There's actually plenty of evidence that has been happening.

    https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/coronavirus-residents-welded-inside-their-own-home/

    Far too many such videos to be fake.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,276
    TOPPING said:

    Zing

    + 0.7

    :smile:
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,394
    If the Coronavirus outbreak was in the US and states were quarantined would we be reacting differently?

    The answer to this question is surely yes, the interesting follow on questions are ‘why?’ and ‘does it matter?’.

This discussion has been closed.