I'm not worried. More likely to be in a road traffic accident than struck down by coronavirus.
Your complacency is *interesting*
While sober analysis of the outbreak suggests serious concern is warranted, if everyone were to react like you, the economy would already have crashed, and doctors wouldn't be turning up for work...
Yeah, but when the real emergency strikes, it will be bipolar drunken fear-mongerers like me who get out alive, because we panicked FIRST. Meanwhile all the boring sane sober people like you will be dead.
So there's that.
But, you didn’t just panic first. You come on here several times a day to publicly shit your pants - repeatedly.
You’re the guy who’d be put out of his misery or sent to the rear in a straight-jacket, if you’d been in the trenches: no-one wants to hear, “OH MY GOD, WE’RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!” several times a day.
It does no-one any good.
Well you are free to ignore my prognostications.
Though anyone who wants to protect their money or assets might perhaps be less complacent.
And also GLOBAL DEATH is just more interesting than the wage structure of care homes, or the government's plans for wood burning stoves, to anyone "normal". A category which clearly excludes you and others on PB.
Ooh I am not sure it is more interesting than the wage structure of care homes. I genuinely have spent hours thinking about that!!
I remember when 9/11 happened - I coincidentally had my TV on and saw the second plane hit, live. I was bewildered (like many). Then I realised how appalling this was, an obvious attack, and I rushed upstairs to tell my flatmate.
She turned on the TV, looked at the footage (which was being constantly replayed). Then she went silent, and turned the TV off, and went back to her knitting.
It was so momentous she couldn't compute it and didn't want to think about it.
Obviously coronavirus is nowhere near as serious as 9/11, and hopefully never will be, but I wonder if there is a human reaction to mighty tragedy, to simply avert one's face and pretend it isn't there.
This does happen. It was my reaction to the last genuine tragedy of monumental proportions that we have experienced. Nov 2016. Trump.
For quite a long time - certainly well into the summer of the following year - I went around pretending that Obama was still the President.
Only stopped this when friends and family started to get uncomfortable around me.
Until the January of the following year, he WAS still the President.
I'm not worried. More likely to be in a road traffic accident than struck down by coronavirus.
Coronavirus is highly contagious - fact. It remind me sadly of Foot and Mouth Disease and in this virulent episode of its existence, in my view is virtually uncontrollable. Also like FMD the disease itself is usually not that serious in so much as over 80% recover - not the 98% once ridiculously suggested. However, unlike FMD as yet we do not have even an unreliable vaccine. ( I digress but It was Blair's decision not to use that vaccine, under EU pressure, and that is why BTW I voted LEAVE and would never vote for Blair. )
When we have a quarter decent vaccine for coronavirus I will share your confidence about the dangers - until then I will remember FMD as all farmers do and fear.
I have no evidence but I suspect the attempts by the Chinese Government to contain it are doing more harm than good. Governments always screw things up.
I am very confused by the announcement on stoves and fires today. There will be a ban on buying wet wood under 2 cu metres and then it has to have instructions on seasoning. You will not be allowed to burn wet wood.
Who the hell burns wet wood?
I have 2 stoves in our main house and I'm about to install a stove in our second house. So far I have got all my wood from my garden and I season it myself. If and when I do run out I will approach a tree surgeon for wet wood they don't want and season it myself because I have the space.
Wood that is sold commercially for burning in home stoves is always seasoned. Most people don't have the space to season their own wood. They are saying it must be seasoned in kilns. Why? That just speeds up the process but wastes energy and pollutes.
99% of people do what is required (re wood) anyway and those that don't are those that can season anyway. Nobody burns wet wood (Ash is one wood that can be burnt wet, but why would you?).
Confused.
Not really, Wood burning stoves, along with diesel vehicles, are two of the main sources for PM pollution in the air we are breathing and this is the problem the Government is finally trying to address.
It's all very well banging on about being green and how much power is generated from renewables but the real issue is air quality in our towns and cities and in particular the levels of Particulate Matter Pollution and especially those particles below 2.5 micrometers in diameter.
But that doesn't deal with the point I am making - the ban on selling and burning wet wood, which nobody does!
One gets the impression they don't know what they are talking about.
99% say of the stoves are burning seasoned wood that has been bought. So no change there.
1% say is burnt by people who season their own wood. Just made their life more difficult, when they are more environmentally friendly than people who buy seasoned wood (no CO2 given off in getting hold of my wood).
And seasoned wood burnt now has to be kilned dried, so kilns need to be heated so giving off more CO2 than doing it naturally.
Net effect - More CO2.
And I repeat nobody burns wet wood which implies they haven't a clue about the issue.
I wonder which will happen first - people here realise there's no such thing as Leavers or Remainers anymore now that Brexit is done . . . or there is a payout on the Iowa caucus?
There are still Remainers and Leavers. Whether the two groups combined still make up a large majority of the country is uncertain.
I guess we'll see by the reaction to a trade deal, or lack of one, later this year.
There were Leavers and Remainers but we've already left now, Brexit is already done. There's nothing for us to Leave or Remain in anymore.
You might want to Rejoin now but that's not Remain.
Since when was logic part of this debate?
I'm reminded that when the Monarchy was restored in 1660 it was declared that Charles II had been the lawful monarch all along, as though the previous eleven years hadn't happened. It's the same with Remainers. This period of British history will cease to exist for them once the horror is over.
I'm sure there are Leavers who will continue to insist that we haven't left properly too.
Shouting fire repeatedly at those discussing the finer intricacies of care home business models, is probably useful when there is a fire about to burn the building down.
Admittedly some people would rather discuss care home business models because they know consciously or subconsciously about the fire and have chosen just not to worry about it and/or give in to the flames. That's fine too but for those of us seriously worried, in an active way, it is sort of painful to see. But each to their own etc.
I am very confused by the announcement on stoves and fires today. There will be a ban on buying wet wood under 2 cu metres and then it has to have instructions on seasoning. You will not be allowed to burn wet wood.
Who the hell burns wet wood?
I have 2 stoves in our main house and I'm about to install a stove in our second house. So far I have got all my wood from my garden and I season it myself. If and when I do run out I will approach a tree surgeon for wet wood they don't want and season it myself because I have the space.
Wood that is sold commercially for burning in home stoves is always seasoned. Most people don't have the space to season their own wood. They are saying it must be seasoned in kilns. Why? That just speeds up the process but wastes energy and pollutes.
99% of people do what is required (re wood) anyway and those that don't are those that can season anyway. Nobody burns wet wood (Ash is one wood that can be burnt wet, but why would you?).
Confused.
Not really, Wood burning stoves, along with diesel vehicles, are two of the main sources for PM pollution in the air we are breathing and this is the problem the Government is finally trying to address.
It's all very well banging on about being green and how much power is generated from renewables but the real issue is air quality in our towns and cities and in particular the levels of Particulate Matter Pollution and especially those particles below 2.5 micrometers in diameter.
But that doesn't deal with the point I am making - the ban on selling and burning wet wood, which nobody does!
One gets the impression they don't know what they are talking about.
99% say of the stoves are burning seasoned wood that has been bought. So no change there.
1% say is burnt by people who season their own wood. Just made their life more difficult, when they are more environmentally friendly than people who buy seasoned wood (no CO2 given off in getting hold of my wood).
And seasoned wood burnt now has to be kilned dried, so kilns need to be heated so giving off more CO2 than doing it naturally.
Net effect - More CO2.
And I repeat nobody burns wet wood which implies they haven't a clue about the issue.
Haven't the banned coal too? I like a coal fire. Something rather old fashioned and lovely about it.
I'm not worried. More likely to be in a road traffic accident than struck down by coronavirus.
Your complacency is *interesting*
While sober analysis of the outbreak suggests serious concern is warranted, if everyone were to react like you, the economy would already have crashed, and doctors wouldn't be turning up for work...
Yeah, but when the real emergency strikes, it will be bipolar drunken fear-mongerers like me who get out alive, because we panicked FIRST. Meanwhile all the boring sane sober people like you will be dead.
So there's that.
But, you didn’t just panic first. You come on here several times a day to publicly shit your pants - repeatedly.
You’re the guy who’d be put out of his misery or sent to the rear in a straight-jacket, if you’d been in the trenches: no-one wants to hear, “OH MY GOD, WE’RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!” several times a day.
It does no-one any good.
Well you are free to ignore my prognostications.
Though anyone who wants to protect their money or assets might perhaps be less complacent.
And also GLOBAL DEATH is just more interesting than the wage structure of care homes, or the government's plans for wood burning stoves, to anyone "normal". A category which clearly excludes you and others on PB.
Well, I’m not because I have to scroll through several dozen of them a day on the threads to get to the comments I want to read about the betting.
Anyway, I haven’t “ignored” the risk. I’ve stockpiled two weeks of emergency food, water and gas at my home in case national supply chains should be interrupted or we are required to self-isolate and we can’t get deliveries. Just as a precaution.
But, I don’t feel the need to shout FIRE! in the theatre every day because of it.
I have 17 weeks of fine wine, and some Marmite. You bedwetter.
Obviously coronavirus is nowhere near as serious as 9/11, and hopefully never will be, but I wonder if there is a human reaction to mighty tragedy, to simply avert one's face and pretend it isn't there.
2,977 people were killed on 9/11, excluding the murderers.
There have been 62,000 confirmed cases in Hubei alone, with 2,200 deaths. Half of China is locked down, the container shipping industry is in chaos, the world industrial system is struggling and people are being forced to quarantine themselves for a fortnight if they travel abroad.
And you are having periodic meltdowns about how awful everything is.
If it is ‘nowhere near as serious as 9/11’ you are effectively admitting this is a slightly more drastic than usual flu outbreak and your overreaction is pure hysteria.
If your reaction is even remotely justified, you have effectively already conceded it is far worse than 9/11, and your statement makes no sense.
I'm not worried. More likely to be in a road traffic accident than struck down by coronavirus.
Your complacency is *interesting*
I'm sure its contagious. Lots of things are contagious.
Two thirds of a million people die from influenza annually every single year. So far there's a fraction of one percent who have died due to this outbreak. How many do you think have died from influenza since this outbreak began?
Are you complacent about influenza?
Do you think more people will die from influenza or COVID-19 this year?
I'm not worried. More likely to be in a road traffic accident than struck down by coronavirus.
Your complacency is *interesting*
While sober analysis of the outbreak suggests serious concern is warranted, if everyone were to react like you, the economy would already have crashed, and doctors wouldn't be turning up for work...
Yeah, but when the real emergency strikes, it will be bipolar drunken fear-mongerers like me who get out alive, because we panicked FIRST. Meanwhile all the boring sane sober people like you will be dead.
So there's that.
But, you didn’t just panic first. You come on here several times a day to publicly shit your pants - repeatedly.
You’re the guy who’d be put out of his misery or sent to the rear in a straight-jacket, if you’d been in the trenches: no-one wants to hear, “OH MY GOD, WE’RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!” several times a day.
It does no-one any good.
Well you are free to ignore my prognostications.
Though anyone who wants to protect their money or assets might perhaps be less complacent.
And also GLOBAL DEATH is just more interesting than the wage structure of care homes, or the government's plans for wood burning stoves, to anyone "normal". A category which clearly excludes you and others on PB.
Well, I’m not because I have to scroll through several dozen of them a day on the threads to get to the comments I want to read about the betting.
Anyway, I haven’t “ignored” the risk. I’ve stockpiled two weeks of emergency food, water and gas at my home in case national supply chains should be interrupted or we are required to self-isolate and we can’t get deliveries. Just as a precaution.
But, I don’t feel the need to shout FIRE! in the theatre every day because of it.
I have 17 weeks of fine wine, and some Marmite. You bedwetter.
In all seriousness, the way our media is reacting to coronavirus is just BIZARRE
We have no idea where this is going, it COULD be a tragic global pandemic like Spanish flu, or it could fizzle out. The signs are not good, but nor are they desperate, yet.
However what we do know is this: one tenth of all humanity is in some kind of quarantine. 150m people, = the population of the UK and Germany, are in actual lockdown.
Several countries are declaring medical emergencies. Including Japan and South Korea, two huge and img masks.
And so on, and so forth.
This is so very clearly THE most important news story of the day. It dwarfs everything else.
On the BBC it is hidden away as a third rank story, underneath "Dot Cotton's 10 most iconic Eastenders moments"
I dont think any of the audience mentioned it on QT last night either
Some things are too big to discuss!
snip
Otherwise I find it incomprehensible.
Well the Guardian have been maintaining pretty well continuous live reporting on it, as have the BBC.
If the Mail were to go all eadric, with "WE"RE ALL GOING TO DIE" in 72pt bold, it wouldn't do all that much to help.
I find it very strang be playing this crazy waiting game.
snip .
OK, look at it another way. Think of the videos of people being welded into their homes in China. And all the other terrifying videos from China.
They make brilliant TV (in a terrible, shocking way) yet NONE of this is reaching mainstream media. I cannot be alone in finding this a tiny bit weird?
Maybe because people aren't being welded into their homes
They really, really are. Though almost no one is reporting it on MSM, yet there are hundreds of different videos on social media. Here's a rare MSM report
I'm not worried. More likely to be in a road traffic accident than struck down by coronavirus.
Your complacency is *interesting*
While sober analysis of the outbreak suggests serious concern is warranted, if everyone were to react like you, the economy would already have crashed, and doctors wouldn't be turning up for work...
Yeah, but when the real emergency strikes, it will be bipolar drunken fear-mongerers like me who get out alive, because we panicked FIRST. Meanwhile all the boring sane sober people like you will be dead.
So there's that.
But, you didn’t just panic first. You come on here several times a day to publicly shit your pants - repeatedly.
You’re the guy who’d be put out of his misery or sent to the rear in a straight-jacket, if you’d been in the trenches: no-one wants to hear, “OH MY GOD, WE’RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!” several times a day.
It does no-one any good.
Well you are free to ignore my prognostications.
Though anyone who wants to protect their money or assets might perhaps be less complacent.
And also GLOBAL DEATH is just more interesting than the wage structure of care homes, or the government's plans for wood burning stoves, to anyone "normal". A category which clearly excludes you and others on PB.
Well, I’m not because I have to scroll through several dozen of them a day on the threads to get to the comments I want to read about the betting.
Anyway, I haven’t “ignored” the risk. I’ve stockpiled two weeks of emergency food, water and gas at my home in case national supply chains should be interrupted or we are required to self-isolate and we can’t get deliveries. Just as a precaution.
But, I don’t feel the need to shout FIRE! in the theatre every day because of it.
I have 17 weeks of fine wine, and some Marmite. You bedwetter.
I am very confused by the announcement on stoves and fires today. There will be a ban on buying wet wood under 2 cu metres and then it has to have instructions on seasoning. You will not be allowed to burn wet wood.
Who the hell burns wet wood?
I have 2 stoves in our main house and I'm about to install a stove in our second house. So far I have got all my wood from my garden and I season it myself. If and when I do run out I will approach a tree surgeon for wet wood they don't want and season it myself because I have the space.
Wood that is sold commercially for burning in home stoves is always seasoned. Most people don't have the space to season their own wood. They are saying it must be seasoned in kilns. Why? That just speeds up the process but wastes energy and pollutes.
99% of people do what is required (re wood) anyway and those that don't are those that can season anyway. Nobody burns wet wood (Ash is one wood that can be burnt wet, but why would you?).
Confused.
Not really, Wood burning stoves, along with diesel vehicles, are two of the main sources for PM pollution in the air we are breathing and this is the problem the Government is finally trying to address.
It's all very well banging on about being green and how much power is generated from renewables but the real issue is air quality in our towns and cities and in particular the levels of Particulate Matter Pollution and especially those particles below 2.5 micrometers in diameter.
But that doesn't deal with the point I am making - the ban on selling and burning wet wood, which nobody does!
One gets the impression they don't know what they are talking about.
99% say of the stoves are burning seasoned wood that has been bought. So no change there.
1% say is burnt by people who season their own wood. Just made their life more difficult, when they are more environmentally friendly than people who buy seasoned wood (no CO2 given off in getting hold of my wood).
And seasoned wood burnt now has to be kilned dried, so kilns need to be heated so giving off more CO2 than doing it naturally.
Net effect - More CO2.
And I repeat nobody burns wet wood which implies they haven't a clue about the issue.
Unless chimney fires from wet wood burning have risen and the govt wants to address that. But that doesn't seem to be what they are aiming at.
I'm not worried. More likely to be in a road traffic accident than struck down by coronavirus.
Your complacency is *interesting*
While sober analysis of the outbreak suggests serious concern is warranted, if everyone were to react like you, the economy would already have crashed, and doctors wouldn't be turning up for work...
Yeah, but when the real emergency strikes, it will be bipolar drunken fear-mongerers like me who get out alive, because we panicked FIRST. Meanwhile all the boring sane sober people like you will be dead.
So there's that.
But, you didn’t just panic first. You come on here several times a day to publicly shit your pants - repeatedly.
You’re the guy who’d be put out of his misery or sent to the rear in a straight-jacket, if you’d been in the trenches: no-one wants to hear, “OH MY GOD, WE’RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!” several times a day.
It does no-one any good.
Well you are free to ignore my prognostications.
Though anyone who wants to protect their money or assets might perhaps be less complacent.
And also GLOBAL DEATH is just more interesting than the wage structure of care homes, or the government's plans for wood burning stoves, to anyone "normal". A category which clearly excludes you and others on PB.
Ooh I am not sure it is more interesting than the wage structure of care homes. I genuinely have spent hours thinking about that!!
I saw some definitive figures which, from memory, said costs were £353 per resident for care, £459 for nursing.
So that is some margin in your local Essex home; no idea what the national average is, that said. Plus why are all the care homes going bust so perhaps those figures are incomplete.
I'm not worried. More likely to be in a road traffic accident than struck down by coronavirus.
Your complacency is *interesting*
While sober analysis of the outbreak suggests serious concern is warranted, if everyone were to react like you, the economy would already have crashed, and doctors wouldn't be turning up for work...
Yeah, but when the real emergency strikes, it will be bipolar drunken fear-mongerers like me who get out alive, because we panicked FIRST. Meanwhile all the boring sane sober people like you will be dead.
So there's that.
But, you didn’t just panic first. You come on here several times a day to publicly shit your pants - repeatedly.
You’re the guy who’d be put out of his misery or sent to the rear in a straight-jacket, if you’d been in the trenches: no-one wants to hear, “OH MY GOD, WE’RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!” several times a day.
It does no-one any good.
Well you are free to ignore my prognostications.
Though anyone who wants to protect their money or assets might perhaps be less complacent.
And also GLOBAL DEATH is just more interesting than the wage structure of care homes, or the government's plans for wood burning stoves, to anyone "normal". A category which clearly excludes you and others on PB.
Ooh I am not sure it is more interesting than the wage structure of care homes. I genuinely have spent hours thinking about that!!
I saw some definitive figures which, from memory, said costs were £353 per resident for care, £459 for nursing.
So that is some margin in your local Essex home; no idea what the national average is, that said. Plus why are all the care homes going bust so perhaps those figures are incomplete.
I am very confused by the announcement on stoves and fires today. There will be a ban on buying wet wood under 2 cu metres and then it has to have instructions on seasoning. You will not be allowed to burn wet wood.
Who the hell burns wet wood?
I have 2 stoves in our main house and I'm about to install a stove in our second house. So far I have got all my wood from my garden and I season it myself. If and when I do run out I will approach a tree surgeon for wet wood they don't want and season it myself because I have the space.
Wood that is sold commercially for burning in home stoves is always seasoned. Most people don't have the space to season their own wood. They are saying it must be seasoned in kilns. Why? That just speeds up the process but wastes energy and pollutes.
99% of people do what is required (re wood) anyway and those that don't are those that can season anyway. Nobody burns wet wood (Ash is one wood that can be burnt wet, but why would you?).
Confused.
Not really, Wood burning stoves, along with diesel vehicles, are two of the main sources for PM pollution in the air we are breathing and this is the problem the Government is finally trying to address.
It's all very well banging on about being green and how much power is generated from renewables but the real issue is air quality in our towns and cities and in particular the levels of Particulate Matter Pollution and especially those particles below 2.5 micrometers in diameter.
But that doesn't deal with the point I am making - the ban on selling and burning wet wood, which nobody does!
One gets the impression they don't know what they are talking about.
99% say of the stoves are burning seasoned wood that has been bought. So no change there.
1% say is burnt by people who season their own wood. Just made their life more difficult, when they are more environmentally friendly than people who buy seasoned wood (no CO2 given off in getting hold of my wood).
And seasoned wood burnt now has to be kilned dried, so kilns need to be heated so giving off more CO2 than doing it naturally.
Net effect - More CO2.
And I repeat nobody burns wet wood which implies they haven't a clue about the issue.
Unless chimney fires from wet wood burning have risen and the govt wants to address that. But that doesn't seem to be what they are aiming at.
Wet wood is sold commercially. Every garage and DIY shop in the country just about had those string bags with wet wood in (i.e. unseasoned). This will end.
As I understand it seasoned wood can still be sold. We will not have to buy kiln dried.
This better be the case, because I take deliveries of seasoned logs from a guy who does coppicing and so on. I am not interested in paying for kiln dried.
I'm not worried. More likely to be in a road traffic accident than struck down by coronavirus.
Your complacency is *interesting*
I'm sure its contagious. Lots of things are contagious.
Two thirds of a million people die from influenza annually every single year. So far there's a fraction of one percent who have died due to this outbreak. How many do you think have died from influenza since this outbreak began?
Are you complacent about influenza?
Do you think more people will die from influenza or COVID-19 this year?
That depends. On a balance of probabilities, quite probably the flu.
But there is a greater than zero likelihood it goes all global pandemic, and death rates from this coronavirus infection are somewhere around 20x those for influenza.
I am very confused by the announcement on stoves and fires today. There will be a ban on buying wet wood under 2 cu metres and then it has to have instructions on seasoning. You will not be allowed to burn wet wood.
Who the hell burns wet wood?
I have 2 stoves in our main house and I'm about to install a stove in our second house. So far I have got all my wood from my garden and I season it myself. If and when I do run out I will approach a tree surgeon for wet wood they don't want and season it myself because I have the space.
Wood that is sold commercially for burning in home stoves is always seasoned. Most people don't have the space to season their own wood. They are saying it must be seasoned in kilns. Why? That just speeds up the process but wastes energy and pollutes.
99% of people do what is required (re wood) anyway and those that don't are those that can season anyway. Nobody burns wet wood (Ash is one wood that can be burnt wet, but why would you?).
Confused.
I really think the Government need to be careful about losing public support here.
Just because you might be able to reduce 80% of 26 different forms of carbon emissions doesn’t mean you should.
If you can reduce more or less 100% of 12 of those 26 different forms of carbon emissions and those 12 represent 95%+ of the UK’s carbon emissions, then why waste political capital pissing people off going after the other fourteen, which might jeopardise the lot?
As an example, the Government could ban heritage traction engines and steam railways, because they burn coal. In reality, the emissions they create are so negligible as to make not the slightest difference to anything and banning them would wipe out a huge part of our industrial heritage and piss an enormous number of people off.
Focus on power, air/sea/road transport, electric infrastructure and primary district air/ground source heating, in my view.
I agree.
There are things they could do re wood.
a) Try and do something about the marketplace. Tree surgeons mainly dispose of their wood as waste as it is not worth their while to season and sell. It is a waste product mostly. Yet we import seasoned wood with the consequential CO2 impact.
b) Also most of the wood they cut down is soft and most people will only buy hard wood for burning, yet there is nothing wrong with soft wood. People fear chimney fires, but that isn't a concern if burnt properly (try telling Scandinavians and Americans they shouldn't burn soft wood). The other reason is soft wood burns quicker, but then it seasons 4 times quicker and grows much quicker.
We have a natural waste product that is dumped that can be used as a fuel!
I'm not worried. More likely to be in a road traffic accident than struck down by coronavirus.
Your complacency is *interesting*
While sober analysis of the outbreak suggests serious concern is warranted, if everyone were to react like you, the economy would already have crashed, and doctors wouldn't be turning up for work...
Yeah, but when the real emergency strikes, it will be bipolar drunken fear-mongerers like me who get out alive, because we panicked FIRST. Meanwhile all the boring sane sober people like you will be dead.
So there's that.
But, you didn’t just panic first. You come on here several times a day to publicly shit your pants - repeatedly.
You’re the guy who’d be put out of his misery or sent to the rear in a straight-jacket, if you’d been in the trenches: no-one wants to hear, “OH MY GOD, WE’RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!” several times a day.
It does no-one any good.
Well you are free to ignore my prognostications.
Though anyone who wants to protect their money or assets might perhaps be less complacent.
And also GLOBAL DEATH is just more interesting than the wage structure of care homes, or the government's plans for wood burning stoves, to anyone "normal". A category which clearly excludes you and others on PB.
Well, I’m not because I have to scroll through several dozen of them a day on the threads to get to the comments I want to read about the betting.
Anyway, I haven’t “ignored” the risk. I’ve stockpiled two weeks of emergency food, water and gas at my home in case national supply chains should be interrupted or we are required to self-isolate and we can’t get deliveries. Just as a precaution.
But, I don’t feel the need to shout FIRE! in the theatre every day because of it.
I have 17 weeks of fine wine, and some Marmite. You bedwetter.
17 weeks? Are you sure?
that is 17 x 7 btls = around 10 cases.
Too much for a home without a cellar; too few for a home with a cellar.
Obviously coronavirus is nowhere near as serious as 9/11, and hopefully never will be, but I wonder if there is a human reaction to mighty tragedy, to simply avert one's face and pretend it isn't there.
2,977 people were killed on 9/11, excluding the murderers.
There have been 62,000 confirmed cases in Hubei alone, with 2,200 deaths. Half of China is locked down, the container shipping industry is in chaos, the world industrial system is struggling and people are being forced to quarantine themselves for a fortnight if they travel abroad.
And you are having periodic meltdowns about how awful everything is.
If it is ‘nowhere near as serious as 9/11’ you are effectively admitting this is a slightly more drastic than usual flu outbreak and your overreaction is pure hysteria.
If your reaction is even remotely justified, you have effectively already conceded it is far worse than 9/11, and your statement makes no sense.
Now there's a question - how is Sean Thomas going to cope without his regular trips on someone else's expense to 5 star hotels???
Could he not buy a desert island with his millions, set up a minigun for defence and then just self-isolate with a few trusted staff until he can emerge and repopulate the planet??
I am very confused by the announcement on stoves and fires today. There will be a ban on buying wet wood under 2 cu metres and then it has to have instructions on seasoning. You will not be allowed to burn wet wood.
Who the hell burns wet wood?
I have 2 stoves in our main house and I'm about to install a stove in our second house. So far I have got all my wood from my garden and I season it myself. If and when I do run out I will approach a tree surgeon for wet wood they don't want and season it myself because I have the space.
Wood that is sold commercially for burning in home stoves is always seasoned. Most people don't have the space to season their own wood. They are saying it must be seasoned in kilns. Why? That just speeds up the process but wastes energy and pollutes.
99% of people do what is required (re wood) anyway and those that don't are those that can season anyway. Nobody burns wet wood (Ash is one wood that can be burnt wet, but why would you?).
Confused.
Not really, Wood burning stoves, along with diesel vehicles, are two of the main sources for PM pollution in the air we are breathing and this is the problem the Government is finally trying to address.
It's all very well banging on about being green and how much power is generated from renewables but the real issue is air quality in our towns and cities and in particular the levels of Particulate Matter Pollution and especially those particles below 2.5 micrometers in diameter.
But that doesn't deal with the point I am making - the ban on selling and burning wet wood, which nobody does!
One gets the impression they don't know what they are talking about.
99% say of the stoves are burning seasoned wood that has been bought. So no change there.
1% say is burnt by people who season their own wood. Just made their life more difficult, when they are more environmentally friendly than people who buy seasoned wood (no CO2 given off in getting hold of my wood).
And seasoned wood burnt now has to be kilned dried, so kilns need to be heated so giving off more CO2 than doing it naturally.
Net effect - More CO2.
And I repeat nobody burns wet wood which implies they haven't a clue about the issue.
Haven't the banned coal too? I like a coal fire. Something rather old fashioned and lovely about it.
Certain types of coal. i.e. the old fashioned stuff. Doesn't apply in scotland.
I'm not worried. More likely to be in a road traffic accident than struck down by coronavirus.
Your complacency is *interesting*
I'm sure its contagious. Lots of things are contagious.
Two thirds of a million people die from influenza annually every single year. So far there's a fraction of one percent who have died due to this outbreak. How many do you think have died from influenza since this outbreak began?
Are you complacent about influenza?
Do you think more people will die from influenza or COVID-19 this year?
If this is the case then China should abandon its quarantine, right? It's only flu after all. Why haven't they already?
Never mind the health care system being overwhelmed when 10-20% of the population need hospitalising.
I am very confused by the announcement on stoves and fires today. There will be a ban on buying wet wood under 2 cu metres and then it has to have instructions on seasoning. You will not be allowed to burn wet wood.
Who the hell es.
99% of people do what is required (re wood) anyway and those that don't are those that can season anyway. Nobody burns wet wood (Ash is one wood that can be burnt wet, but why would you?).
Confused.
Not really, Wood burning stoves, along with diesel vehicles, are two of the main sources for PM pollution in the air we are breathing and this is the problem the Government is finally trying to address.
It's all very well banging on about being green and how much power is generated from renewables but the real issue is air quality in our towns and cities and in particular the levels of Particulate Matter Pollution and especially those particles below 2.5 micrometers in diameter.
But that doesn't deal with the point I am making - the ban on selling and burning wet wood, which nobody does!
One gets the impression they don't know what they are talking about.
99% say of the stoves are burning seasoned wood that has been bought. So no change there.
1% say is burnt by people who season their own wood. Just made their life more difficult, when they are more environmentally friendly than people who buy seasoned wood (no CO2 given off in getting hold of my wood).
And seasoned wood burnt now has to be kilned dried, so kilns need to be heated so giving off more CO2 than doing it naturally.
Net effect - More CO2.
And I repeat nobody burns wet wood which implies they haven't a clue about the issue.
Unless chimney fires from wet wood burning have risen and the govt wants to address that. But that doesn't seem to be what they are aiming at.
Wet wood is sold commercially. Every garage and DIY shop in the country just about had those string bags with wet wood in (i.e. unseasoned). This will end.
As I understand it seasoned wood can still be sold. We will not have to buy kiln dried.
This better be the case, because I take deliveries of seasoned logs from a guy who does coppicing and so on. I am not interested in paying for kiln dried.
Is the garage stuff really wet? I wouldn't have thought it would be allowed. Bloody expensive way of buying wood, that said.
I am very confused by the announcement on stoves and fires today. There will be a ban on buying wet wood under 2 cu metres and then it has to have instructions on seasoning. You will not be allowed to burn wet wood.
Who the hell es.
99% of people do what is required (re wood) anyway and those that don't are those that can season anyway. Nobody burns wet wood (Ash is one wood that can be burnt wet, but why would you?).
Confused.
Not really, Wood burning stoves, along with diesel vehicles, are two of the main sources for PM pollution in the air we are breathing and this is the problem the Government is finally trying to address.
It's all very well banging on about being green and how much power is generated from renewables but the real issue is air quality in our towns and cities and in particular the levels of Particulate Matter Pollution and especially those particles below 2.5 micrometers in diameter.
But that doesn't deal with the point I am making - the ban on selling and burning wet wood, which nobody does!
One gets the impression they don't know what they are talking about.
99% say of the stoves are burning seasoned wood that has been bought. So no change there.
1% say is burnt by people who season their own wood. Just made their life more difficult, when they are more environmentally friendly than people who buy seasoned wood (no CO2 given off in getting hold of my wood).
And seasoned wood burnt now has to be kilned dried, so kilns need to be heated so giving off more CO2 than doing it naturally.
Net effect - More CO2.
And I repeat nobody burns wet wood which implies they haven't a clue about the issue.
Unless chimney fires from wet wood burning have risen and the govt wants to address that. But that doesn't seem to be what they are aiming at.
Wet wood is sold commercially. Every garage and DIY shop in the country just about had those string bags with wet wood in (i.e. unseasoned). This will end.
As I understand it seasoned wood can still be sold. We will not have to buy kiln dried.
This better be the case, because I take deliveries of seasoned logs from a guy who does coppicing and so on. I am not interested in paying for kiln dried.
Is the garage stuff really wet? I wouldn't have thought it would be allowed. Bloody expensive way of buying wood, that said.
It wont be allowed in a few months.
And yes, crazy way of buying wood.
Wet just means unseasoned though, not dripping wet. Seasoned should have less than 20% moisture inside.
I am very confused by the announcement on stoves and fires today. There will be a ban on buying wet wood under 2 cu metres and then it has to have instructions on seasoning. You will not be allowed to burn wet wood.
Who the hell burns wet wood?
I have 2 stoves in our main house and I'm about to install a stove in our second house. So far I have got all my wood from my garden and I season it myself. If and when I do run out I will approach a tree surgeon for wet wood they don't want and season it myself because I have the space.
Wood that is sold commercially for burning in home stoves is always seasoned. Most people don't have the space to season their own wood. They are saying it must be seasoned in kilns. Why? That just speeds up the process but wastes energy and pollutes.
99% of people do what is required (re wood) anyway and those that don't are those that can season anyway. Nobody burns wet wood (Ash is one wood that can be burnt wet, but why would you?).
Confused.
Not really, Wood burning stoves, along with diesel vehicles, are two of the main sources for PM pollution in the air we are breathing and this is the problem the Government is finally trying to address.
It's all very well banging on about being green and how much power is generated from renewables but the real issue is air quality in our towns and cities and in particular the levels of Particulate Matter Pollution and especially those particles below 2.5 micrometers in diameter.
First they came for the wood-burning stoves. Then they came for the bonfires....
I can understand it in urban areas. But air quality is hardly an issue where I am.
I'm not worried. More likely to be in a road traffic accident than struck down by coronavirus.
Your complacency is *interesting*
I'm sure its contagious. Lots of things are contagious.
Two thirds of a million people die from influenza annually every single year. So far there's a fraction of one percent who have died due to this outbreak. How many do you think have died from influenza since this outbreak began?
Are you complacent about influenza?
Do you think more people will die from influenza or COVID-19 this year?
That depends. On a balance of probabilities, quite probably the flu.
But there is a greater than zero likelihood it goes all global pandemic, and death rates from this coronavirus infection are somewhere around 20x those for influenza.
Agreed. Greater than zero but I'd suggest below 5% probability that it will be 20x influenza. My mean expectation is that more people will die from influenza than COVID19 and I'm not worried about influenza so I don't see why I should be overly concerned about COVID19.
If it does become a major outbreak in the UK then I might become concerned then, but until then panicking achieves absolutely nothing and strikes me as illogical.
Its a fear of the unknown that is the issue here, rather than a mathematical or logical concern.
Is it possible British media have been told to underplay this, so as to prevent panic?
Otherwise I find it incomprehensible.
Why is it incomprehensible? It's last week's news. The media want novelty in their stories, not the same headline 'More cases found and a few more people die of coronavirus' every day.
For that matter they are right that it's not news. We now all know the virus is spreading, that it can occasionally be fatal, and that so far there are hardly any cases in Europe.
This comment is so peculiar is is pathological.
It reminds me strongly of Rogerdamus' infamous reaction to the first bank run in Britain at the start of the Great Recession - "this will all be forgotten by Monday morning".
That article by Jonathan in Nature (not known for panic) has the measure of this:
"The outbreak of a new coronavirus is wreaking havoc worldwide. In China, the epicentre of the epidemic, the virus has infected tens of thousands of people and killed more than 2,100. Unprecedented measures meant to contain the spread have brought millions of daily lives to a halt, and the effects have touched economies and global supply chains."
But we know all that. You're a journalist. If a story is going to move forward it needs new hooks. It needs people to die in the UK or in countries close by, or in the US. No-one really cares about the countries that are currently most affected - unless there is a palpable catastrophe, like a tsunami, a plane crash or a nuclear meltdown. They should. But they don't.
I am very confused by the announcement on stoves and fires today. There will be a ban on buying wet wood under 2 cu metres and then it has to have instructions on seasoning. You will not be allowed to burn wet wood.
Who the hell burns wet wood?
I have 2 stoves in our main house and I'm about to install a stove in our second house. So far I have got all my wood from my garden and I season it myself. If and when I do run out I will approach a tree surgeon for wet wood they don't want and season it myself because I have the space.
Wood that is sold commercially for burning in home stoves is always seasoned. Most people don't have the space to season their own wood. They are saying it must be seasoned in kilns. Why? That just speeds up the process but wastes energy and pollutes.
99% of people do what is required (re wood) anyway and those that don't are those that can season anyway. Nobody burns wet wood (Ash is one wood that can be burnt wet, but why would you?).
Confused.
Not really, Wood burning stoves, along with diesel vehicles, are two of the main sources for PM pollution in the air we are breathing and this is the problem the Government is finally trying to address.
It's all very well banging on about being green and how much power is generated from renewables but the real issue is air quality in our towns and cities and in particular the levels of Particulate Matter Pollution and especially those particles below 2.5 micrometers in diameter.
But that doesn't deal with the point I am making - the ban on selling and burning wet wood, which nobody does!
One gets the impression they don't know what they are talking about.
99% say of the stoves are burning seasoned wood that has been bought. So no change there.
1% say is burnt by people who season their own wood. Just made their life more difficult, when they are more environmentally friendly than people who buy seasoned wood (no CO2 given off in getting hold of my wood).
And seasoned wood burnt now has to be kilned dried, so kilns need to be heated so giving off more CO2 than doing it naturally.
Net effect - More CO2.
And I repeat nobody burns wet wood which implies they haven't a clue about the issue.
Unless chimney fires from wet wood burning have risen and the govt wants to address that. But that doesn't seem to be what they are aiming at.
Agree, plus that is unlikely to work because nobody sells wet wood really so it is likely to be people who have collected it themselves and don't know what they are doing and will continue doing so.
I'm not worried. More likely to be in a road traffic accident than struck down by coronavirus.
Your complacency is *interesting*
I'm sure its contagious. Lots of things are contagious.
Two thirds of a million people die from influenza annually every single year. So far there's a fraction of one percent who have died due to this outbreak. How many do you think have died from influenza since this outbreak began?
Are you complacent about influenza?
Do you think more people will die from influenza or COVID-19 this year?
Ace. Perhaps you should lend your expertise to the Chinese who are locking down hundreds of millions of people.
Closer to home, perhaps let the people in PHE know so they can chill out a bit. Phil Thompson off pb says we are more likely to get knocked over by a car. We'll be fine.
Now there's a question - how is Sean Thomas going to cope without his regular trips on someone else's expense to 5 star hotels???
Could he not buy a desert island with his millions, set up a minigun for defence and then just self-isolate with a few trusted staff until he can emerge and repopulate the planet??
I'm not worried. More likely to be in a road traffic accident than struck down by coronavirus.
Your complacency is *interesting*
I'm sure its contagious. Lots of things are contagious.
Two thirds of a million people die from influenza annually every single year. So far there's a fraction of one percent who have died due to this outbreak. How many do you think have died from influenza since this outbreak began?
Are you complacent about influenza?
Do you think more people will die from influenza or COVID-19 this year?
If this is the case then China should abandon it's quarantine, right? It's only flu after all. Why haven't they already?
Never mind the health care system being overwhelmed when 10-20% of the population need hospitalizing.
China has an active outbreak, it makes sense to quarantine. If people here get the disease it makes sense to quarantine (humanely) and to self-isolate. It makes sense to self-isolate if you have influenza too!
I am very confused by the announcement on stoves and fires today. There will be a ban on buying wet wood under 2 cu metres and then it has to have instructions on seasoning. You will not be allowed to burn wet wood.
Who the hell burns wet wood?
I have 2 stoves in our main house and I'm about to install a stove in our second house. So far I have got all my wood from my garden and I season it myself. If and when I do run out I will approach a tree surgeon for wet wood they don't want and season it myself because I have the space.
Wood that is sold commercially for burning in home stoves is always seasoned. Most people don't have the space to season their own wood. They are saying it must be seasoned in kilns. Why? That just speeds up the process but wastes energy and pollutes.
99% of people do what is required (re wood) anyway and those that don't are those that can season anyway. Nobody burns wet wood (Ash is one wood that can be burnt wet, but why would you?).
Confused.
Not really, Wood burning stoves, along with diesel vehicles, are two of the main sources for PM pollution in the air we are breathing and this is the problem the Government is finally trying to address.
It's all very well banging on about being green and how much power is generated from renewables but the real issue is air quality in our towns and cities and in particular the levels of Particulate Matter Pollution and especially those particles below 2.5 micrometers in diameter.
First they came for the wood-burning stoves. Then they came for the bonfires....
I can understand it in urban areas. But air quality is hardly an issue where I am.
I'm not worried. More likely to be in a road traffic accident than struck down by coronavirus.
Your complacency is *interesting*
While sober analysis of the outbreak suggests serious concern is warranted, if everyone were to react like you, the economy would already have crashed, and doctors wouldn't be turning up for work...
Yeah, but when the real emergency strikes, it will be bipolar drunken fear-mongerers like me who get out alive, because we panicked FIRST. Meanwhile all the boring sane sober people like you will be dead.
So there's that.
But, you didn’t just panic first. You come on here several times a day to publicly shit your pants - repeatedly.
You’re the guy who’d be put out of his misery or sent to the rear in a straight-jacket, if you’d been in the trenches: no-one wants to hear, “OH MY GOD, WE’RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!” several times a day.
It does no-one any good.
Well you are free to ignore my prognostications.
Though anyone who wants to protect their money or assets might perhaps be less complacent.
And also GLOBAL DEATH is just more interesting than the wage structure of care homes, or the government's plans for wood burning stoves, to anyone "normal". A category which clearly excludes you and others on PB.
Well, I’m not because I have to scroll through several dozen of them a day on the threads to get to the comments I want to read about the betting.
Anyway, I haven’t “ignored” the risk. I’ve stockpiled two weeks of emergency food, water and gas at my home in case national supply chains should be interrupted or we are required to self-isolate and we can’t get deliveries. Just as a precaution.
But, I don’t feel the need to shout FIRE! in the theatre every day because of it.
I have 17 weeks of fine wine, and some Marmite. You bedwetter.
17 weeks? Are you sure?
that is 17 x 7 btls = around 10 cases.
Too much for a home without a cellar; too few for a home with a cellar.
10 cases doesn't take up that much space (I think you can get 12 cases in a metre squared and probably could stack them 2 boxes high without a problem), If you've got a garage it wouldn't be a problem.
10 cases doesn't take up that much space (I think you can get 12 cases in a metre squared and probably could stack them 2 boxes high without a problem), If you've got a garage it wouldn't be a problem.
Yes maybe. Seems very unambitious for @eadric that said.
I'm not worried. More likely to be in a road traffic accident than struck down by coronavirus.
Your complacency is *interesting*
I'm sure its contagious. Lots of things are contagious.
Two thirds of a million people die from influenza annually every single year. So far there's a fraction of one percent who have died due to this outbreak. How many do you think have died from influenza since this outbreak began?
Are you complacent about influenza?
Do you think more people will die from influenza or COVID-19 this year?
Ace. Perhaps you should lend your expertise to the Chinese who are locking down hundreds of millions of people.
Closer to home, perhaps let the people in PHE know so they can chill out a bit. Phil Thompson off pb says we are more likely to get knocked over by a car. We'll be fine.
We are not in China last I checked. I didn't say the Chinese in Wuhan shouldn't be concerned. 🙄
As for the people in PHE they should be concerned, that's their job. Lifeguards have to be concerned people under their supervision might drown, does that mean if we and our friends and loved ones are not in or near the water we should still be concerned about drowning all the time?
When I'm driving I've got to be concerned about road traffic risks. In the week to come I will drive more than I will come into contact with corona patients.
I am very confused by the announcement on stoves and fires today. There will be a ban on buying wet wood under 2 cu metres and then it has to have instructions on seasoning. You will not be allowed to burn wet wood.
Who the hell es.
99% of people do what is required (re wood) anyway and those that don't are those that can season anyway. Nobody burns wet wood (Ash is one wood that can be burnt wet, but why would you?).
Confused.
Not really, Wood burning stoves, along with diesel vehicles, are two of the main sources for PM pollution in the air we are breathing and this is the problem the Government is finally trying to address.
It's all very well banging on about being green and how much power is generated from renewables but the real issue is air quality in our towns and cities and in particular the levels of Particulate Matter Pollution and especially those particles below 2.5 micrometers in diameter.
But that doesn't deal with the point I am making - the ban on selling and burning wet wood, which nobody does!
One gets the impression they don't know what they are talking about.
99% say of the stoves are burning seasoned wood that has been bought. So no change there.
1% say is burnt by people who season their own wood. Just made their life more difficult, when they are more environmentally friendly than people who buy seasoned wood (no CO2 given off in getting hold of my wood).
And seasoned wood burnt now has to be kilned dried, so kilns need to be heated so giving off more CO2 than doing it naturally.
Net effect - More CO2.
And I repeat nobody burns wet wood which implies they haven't a clue about the issue.
Unless chimney fires from wet wood burning have risen and the govt wants to address that. But that doesn't seem to be what they are aiming at.
Wet wood is sold commercially. Every garage and DIY shop in the country just about had those string bags with wet wood in (i.e. unseasoned). This will end.
As I understand it seasoned wood can still be sold. We will not have to buy kiln dried.
This better be the case, because I take deliveries of seasoned logs from a guy who does coppicing and so on. I am not interested in paying for kiln dried.
Is the garage stuff really wet? I wouldn't have thought it would be allowed. Bloody expensive way of buying wood, that said.
It can't be wet surely? Surely even if you are mad enough to fork out for the price for a tiny bag at a garage it will be for use now, not in 2 years time!
And the announcement I saw said seasoned wood did have to be kiln dried. utterly bonkers if true. It will be an increase in pollution.
I'm not worried. More likely to be in a road traffic accident than struck down by coronavirus.
Your complacency is *interesting*
While sober analysis of the outbreak suggests serious concern is warranted, if everyone were to react like you, the economy would already have crashed, and doctors wouldn't be turning up for work...
Yeah, but when the real emergency strikes, it will be bipolar drunken fear-mongerers like me who get out alive, because we panicked FIRST. Meanwhile all the boring sane sober people like you will be dead.
So there's that.
But, you didn’t just panic first. You come on here several times a day to publicly shit your pants - repeatedly.
You’re the guy who’d be put out of his misery or sent to the rear in a straight-jacket, if you’d been in the trenches: no-one wants to hear, “OH MY GOD, WE’RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!” several times a day.
It does no-one any good.
Well you are free to ignore my prognostications.
Though anyone who wants to protect their money or assets might perhaps be less complacent.
And also GLOBAL DEATH is just more interesting than the wage structure of care homes, or the government's plans for wood burning stoves, to anyone "normal". A category which clearly excludes you and others on PB.
Well, I’m not because I have to scroll through several dozen of them a day on the threads to get to the comments I want to read about the betting.
Anyway, I haven’t “ignored” the risk. I’ve stockpiled two weeks of emergency food, water and gas at my home in case national supply chains should be interrupted or we are required to self-isolate and we can’t get deliveries. Just as a precaution.
But, I don’t feel the need to shout FIRE! in the theatre every day because of it.
I have 17 weeks of fine wine, and some Marmite. You bedwetter.
17 weeks? Are you sure?
that is 17 x 7 btls = around 10 cases.
Too much for a home without a cellar; too few for a home with a cellar.
1 bottle a day sounds a bit conservative for @eadric
Related political thought: It does look possible that the Covid-19 outbreak has a large impact on the world economy over the next few months, if it does spread out of control in a dozen or more large economies. Given Trump's re-election hopes are in no small part linked to the robust US economy this might hurt him.
It would be rather ironic if he had gotten elected partially by, in my mind, blaming the government for things it couldn't fix and promising to fix things the government couldn't alter - only to lose the election due to an economic slowdown he had no part in.
I'm not worried. More likely to be in a road traffic accident than struck down by coronavirus.
Your complacency is *interesting*
While sober analysis of the outbreak suggests serious concern is warranted, if everyone were to react like you, the economy would already have crashed, and doctors wouldn't be turning up for work...
Yeah, but when the real emergency strikes, it will be bipolar drunken fear-mongerers like me who get out alive, because we panicked FIRST. Meanwhile all the boring sane sober people like you will be dead.
So there's that.
But, you didn’t just panic first. You come on here several times a day to publicly shit your pants - repeatedly.
You’re the guy who’d be put out of his misery or sent to the rear in a straight-jacket, if you’d been in the trenches: no-one wants to hear, “OH MY GOD, WE’RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!” several times a day.
It does no-one any good.
Well you are free to ignore my prognostications.
Though anyone who wants to protect their money or assets might perhaps be less complacent.
And also GLOBAL DEATH is just more interesting than the wage structure of care homes, or the government's plans for wood burning stoves, to anyone "normal". A category which clearly excludes you and others on PB.
Well, I’m not because I have to scroll through several dozen of them a day on the threads to get to the comments I want to read about the betting.
Anyway, I haven’t “ignored” the risk. I’ve stockpiled two weeks of emergency food, water and gas at my home in case national supply chains should be interrupted or we are required to self-isolate and we can’t get deliveries. Just as a precaution.
But, I don’t feel the need to shout FIRE! in the theatre every day because of it.
I have 17 weeks of fine wine, and some Marmite. You bedwetter.
17 weeks? Are you sure?
that is 17 x 7 btls = around 10 cases.
Too much for a home without a cellar; too few for a home with a cellar.
1 bottle a day sounds a bit conservative for @eadric
I'm not worried. More likely to be in a road traffic accident than struck down by coronavirus.
Your complacency is *interesting*
I'm sure its contagious. Lots of things are contagious.
Two thirds of a million people die from influenza annually every single year. So far there's a fraction of one percent who have died due to this outbreak. How many do you think have died from influenza since this outbreak began?
Are you complacent about influenza?
Do you think more people will die from influenza or COVID-19 this year?
Ace. Perhaps you should lend your expertise to the Chinese who are locking down hundreds of millions of people.
Closer to home, perhaps let the people in PHE know so they can chill out a bit. Phil Thompson off pb says we are more likely to get knocked over by a car. We'll be fine.
We are not in China last I checked. I didn't say the Chinese in Wuhan shouldn't be concerned. 🙄
As for the people in PHE they should be concerned, that's their job. Lifeguards have to be concerned people under their supervision might drown, does that mean if we and our friends and loved ones are not in or near the water we should still be concerned about drowning all the time?
When I'm driving I've got to be concerned about road traffic risks. In the week to come I will drive more than I will come into contact with corona patients.
So you are comparing events with independent probabilities, drowning in a swimming pool, to an infectious disease model? OK then. I can see why you might not be concerned.
That’s huge. I’ve nibbled a few quid. If he suddenly surges to second in Nevada or South Carolina then I could see his price being the new Warren in the 30s to 60s range.
I'm not worried. More likely to be in a road traffic accident than struck down by coronavirus.
Your complacency is *interesting*
While sober analysis of the outbreak suggests serious concern is warranted, if everyone were to react like you, the economy would already have crashed, and doctors wouldn't be turning up for work...
Yeah, but when the real emergency strikes, it will be bipolar drunken fear-mongerers like me who get out alive, because we panicked FIRST. Meanwhile all the boring sane sober people like you will be dead.
So there's that.
But, you didn’t just panic first. You come on here several times a day to publicly shit your pants - repeatedly.
You’re the guy who’d be put out of his misery or sent to the rear in a straight-jacket, if you’d been in the trenches: no-one wants to hear, “OH MY GOD, WE’RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!” several times a day.
It does no-one any good.
Well you are free to ignore my prognostications.
Though anyone who wants to protect their money or assets might perhaps be less complacent.
And also GLOBAL DEATH is just more interesting than the wage structure of care homes, or the government's plans for wood burning stoves, to anyone "normal". A category which clearly excludes you and others on PB.
Well, I’m not because I have to scroll through several dozen of them a day on the threads to get to the comments I want to read about the betting.
Anyway, I haven’t “ignored” the risk. I’ve stockpiled two weeks of emergency food, water and gas at my home in case national supply chains should be interrupted or we are required to self-isolate and we can’t get deliveries. Just as a precaution.
But, I don’t feel the need to shout FIRE! in the theatre every day because of it.
I have 17 weeks of fine wine, and some Marmite. You bedwetter.
17 weeks? Are you sure?
that is 17 x 7 btls = around 10 cases.
Too much for a home without a cellar; too few for a home with a cellar.
1 bottle a day sounds a bit conservative for @eadric
Maybe he doesn’t want to be too battered to save us?
Oh, and we are about to have a monumental amount of firewood - as about 20% of Devon's trees are ash.
That’s sad.
I like ash.
I have a number of huge ash and they are still looking well even though we have the problem in our area. They lose large branches regularly that tops up the wood supply
About 5 years ago I had a double trunk one fall on the edge of a ditch. I'm now starting to burn it. Excellent wood. I have noticed it leaves a lot of very fine ash and wondered if this was the reason for its name. Typically I have to empty the ash every week, but with Ash it is every other day.
I'm not worried. More likely to be in a road traffic accident than struck down by coronavirus.
Your complacency is *interesting*
I'm sure its contagious. Lots of things are contagious.
Two thirds of a million people die from influenza annually every single year. So far there's a fraction of one percent who have died due to this outbreak. How many do you think have died from influenza since this outbreak began?
Are you complacent about influenza?
Do you think more people will die from influenza or COVID-19 this year?
Ace. Perhaps you should lend your expertise to the Chinese who are locking down hundreds of millions of people.
Closer to home, perhaps let the people in PHE know so they can chill out a bit. Phil Thompson off pb says we are more likely to get knocked over by a car. We'll be fine.
We are not in China last I checked. I didn't say the Chinese in Wuhan shouldn't be concerned. 🙄
As for the people in PHE they should be concerned, that's their job. Lifeguards have to be concerned people under their supervision might drown, does that mean if we and our friends and loved ones are not in or near the water we should still be concerned about drowning all the time?
When I'm driving I've got to be concerned about road traffic risks. In the week to come I will drive more than I will come into contact with corona patients.
So you are comparing events with independent probabilities, drowning in a swimming pool, to an infectious disease model? OK then. I can see why you might not be concerned.
I'm saying I think that @eadric and co screaming "THE END IS NIGH WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE" is bullshit and I'm not concerned.
I have explained I expect [many, many] more people to die from infectious influenza than infectious COVID19 - and I'm not concerned about influenza.
The swimming pool comment was an analogy but I can do a better one. I may not be concerned about influenza but PHE most definitely are concerned by it every single year. It is their job to be concerned, I'm not saying they shouldn't do their job, I am saying we shouldn't lose our heads.
That’s huge. I’ve nibbled a few quid. If he suddenly surges to second in Nevada or South Carolina then I could see his price being the new Warren in the 30s to 60s range.
I'm not saying you are wrong, but the simple reason Steyer is at 500/1 is because he's at under 5% nationally and we are less than a fortnight from Super Tuesday.
Is it possible British media have been told to underplay this, so as to prevent panic?
Otherwise I find it incomprehensible.
Why is it incomprehensible? It's last week's news. The media want novelty in their stories, not the same headline 'More cases found and a few more people die of coronavirus' every day.
For that matter they are right that it's not news. We now all know the virus is spreading, that it can occasionally be fatal, and that so far there are hardly any cases in Europe.
This comment is so peculiar is is pathological.
It reminds me strongly of Rogerdamus' infamous reaction to the first bank run in Britain at the start of the Great Recession - "this will all be forgotten by Monday morning".
That article by Jonathan in Nature (not known for panic) has the measure of this:
"The outbreak of a new coronavirus is wreaking havoc worldwide. In China, the epicentre of the epidemic, the virus has infected tens of thousands of people and killed more than 2,100. Unprecedented measures meant to contain the spread have brought millions of daily lives to a halt, and the effects have touched economies and global supply chains."
But we know all that. You're a journalist. If a story is going to move forward it needs new hooks. It needs people to die in the UK or in countries close by, or in the US. No-one really cares about the countries that are currently most affected - unless there is a palpable catastrophe, like a tsunami, a plane crash or a nuclear meltdown. They should. But they don't.
Equally the countries that currently have it are blooming hard for the west to report in. Outside of South Korea and Japan, we can't really visit Iran to find out what's happening and China was hard enough to report from even before they stopped almost all travel.
Other Covid-19 thought: I understand the argument that it may be worse in China than we hear. But is it really possible to hide from the media everywhere a much more dangerous outbreak than is being reported? I'm thinking in particular the Diamond Princess outbreak, which is surely as bad as anywhere and where passengers have been Skyping with the media. Surely if it was worse than we are hearing then we'd...have heard?
I'm saying I think that @eadric and co screaming "THE END IS NIGH WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE" is bullshit and I'm not concerned.
I have explained I expect [many, many] more people to die from infectious influenza than infectious COVID19 - and I'm not concerned about influenza.
The swimming pool comment was an analogy but I can do a better one. I may not be concerned about influenza but PHE most definitely are concerned by it every single year. It is their job to be concerned, I'm not saying they shouldn't do their job, I am saying we shouldn't lose our heads.
Given a choice between following your advice and the previous comments I've seen from Foxy (who is a Hospital Consultant) I will go with the consultant even though we don't want or believe in experts in this new Brexit world.
Is it possible British media have been told to underplay this, so as to prevent panic?
Otherwise I find it incomprehensible.
Why is it incomprehensible? It's last week's news. The media want novelty in their stories, not the same headline 'More cases found and a few more people die of coronavirus' every day.
For that matter they are right that it's not news. We now all know the virus is spreading, that it can occasionally be fatal, and that so far there are hardly any cases in Europe.
This comment is so peculiar is is pathological.
It reminds me strongly of Rogerdamus' infamous reaction to the first bank run in Britain at the start of the Great Recession - "this will all be forgotten by Monday morning".
That article by Jonathan in Nature (not known for panic) has the measure of this:
"The outbreak of a new coronavirus is wreaking havoc worldwide. In China, the epicentre of the epidemic, the virus has infected tens of thousands of people and killed more than 2,100. Unprecedented measures meant to contain the spread have brought millions of daily lives to a halt, and the effects have touched economies and global supply chains."
But we know all that. You're a journalist. If a story is going to move forward it needs new hooks. It needs people to die in the UK or in countries close by, or in the US. No-one really cares about the countries that are currently most affected - unless there is a palpable catastrophe, like a tsunami, a plane crash or a nuclear meltdown. They should. But they don't.
Equally the countries that currently have it are blooming hard for the west to report in. Outside of South Korea and Japan, we can't really visit Iran to find out what's happening and China was hard enough to report from even before they stopped almost all travel.
Which is a good thing for us. It means the risk of contagion to us is much, much lower.
If the outbreak had started with the same ferocity in NYC or Berlin it'd be a lot more concerning than it starting in Wuhan.
Oh, and we are about to have a monumental amount of firewood - as about 20% of Devon's trees are ash.
That’s sad.
I like ash.
It is going to make quite a difference to the landscape. But ash die-back was quite visible last year. I expect it will be much more so in a few weeks.
And they are already dropping branches onto main roads and footpaths alike. They are dangerous for tree surgeons to tackle for this very reason. You get a dying tree, then your options of what to do with it are quite limited.
I'm saying I think that @eadric and co screaming "THE END IS NIGH WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE" is bullshit and I'm not concerned.
I have explained I expect [many, many] more people to die from infectious influenza than infectious COVID19 - and I'm not concerned about influenza.
The swimming pool comment was an analogy but I can do a better one. I may not be concerned about influenza but PHE most definitely are concerned by it every single year. It is their job to be concerned, I'm not saying they shouldn't do their job, I am saying we shouldn't lose our heads.
Given a choice between following your advice and the previous comments I've seen from Foxy (who is a Hospital Consultant) I will go with the consultant even though we don't want or believe in experts in this new Brexit world.
Again Foxy is a medical expert, its his field and job to be concerned. However I haven't seen @Foxy saying we should lose our heads over this, my apologies if I have missed that.
Oh and I'm not giving any advice, so I'm not sure what advice of mine you're bothered by. @eadric asked if anyone was not concerned and I said I'm not - I'm not giving any advice so do as you please.
I'm not worried. More likely to be in a road traffic accident than struck down by coronavirus.
Your complacency is *interesting*
While sober analysis of the outbreak suggests serious concern is warranted, if everyone were to react like you, the economy would already have crashed, and doctors wouldn't be turning up for work...
Yeah, but when the real emergency strikes, it will be bipolar drunken fear-mongerers like me who get out alive, because we panicked FIRST. Meanwhile all the boring sane sober people like you will be dead.
So there's that.
But, you didn’t just panic first. You come on here several times a day to publicly shit your pants - repeatedly.
You’re the guy who’d be put out of his misery or sent to the rear in a straight-jacket, if you’d been in the trenches: no-one wants to hear, “OH MY GOD, WE’RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!” several times a day.
It does no-one any good.
Well you are free to ignore my prognostications.
Though anyone who wants to protect their money or assets might perhaps be less complacent.
And also GLOBAL DEATH is just more interesting than the wage structure of care homes, or the government's plans for wood burning stoves, to anyone "normal". A category which clearly excludes you and others on PB.
Ooh I am not sure it is more interesting than the wage structure of care homes. I genuinely have spent hours thinking about that!!
I saw some definitive figures which, from memory, said costs were £353 per resident for care, £459 for nursing.
So that is some margin in your local Essex home; no idea what the national average is, that said. Plus why are all the care homes going bust so perhaps those figures are incomplete.
I am very confused by the announcement on stoves and fires today. There will be a ban on buying wet wood under 2 cu metres and then it has to have instructions on seasoning. You will not be allowed to burn wet wood.
Who the hell burns wet wood?
I have 2 stoves in our main house and I'm about to install a stove in our second house. So far I have got all my wood from my garden and I season it myself. If and when I do run out I will approach a tree surgeon for wet wood they don't want and season it myself because I have the space.
Wood that is sold commercially for burning in home stoves is always seasoned. Most people don't have the space to season their own wood. They are saying it must be seasoned in kilns. Why? That just speeds up the process but wastes energy and pollutes.
99% of people do what is required (re wood) anyway and those that don't are those that can season anyway. Nobody burns wet wood (Ash is one wood that can be burnt wet, but why would you?).
Confused.
Lots of people. It’s cheaper. That its thermal efficiency is better doesn’t occur to them as they just see the purchase price. To have enough wood from your garden you must own your own forest through?
It can't be wet surely? Surely even if you are mad enough to fork out for the price for a tiny bag at a garage it will be for use now, not in 2 years time!
Garages invariably store it where it gets sodden, in my experience.
I'm not worried. More likely to be in a road traffic accident than struck down by coronavirus.
Your complacency is *interesting*
While sober analysis of the outbreak suggests serious concern is warranted, if everyone were to react like you, the economy would already have crashed, and doctors wouldn't be turning up for work...
Yeah, but when the real emergency strikes, it will be bipolar drunken fear-mongerers like me who get out alive, because we panicked FIRST. Meanwhile all the boring sane sober people like you will be dead.
So there's that.
But, you didn’t just panic first. You come on here several times a day to publicly shit your pants - repeatedly.
You’re the guy who’d be put out of his misery or sent to the rear in a straight-jacket, if you’d been in the trenches: no-one wants to hear, “OH MY GOD, WE’RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!” several times a day.
It does no-one any good.
Well you are free to ignore my prognostications.
Though anyone who wants to protect their money or assets might perhaps be less complacent.
And also GLOBAL DEATH is just more interesting than the wage structure of care homes, or the government's plans for wood burning stoves, to anyone "normal". A category which clearly excludes you and others on PB.
Ooh I am not sure it is more interesting than the wage structure of care homes. I genuinely have spent hours thinking about that!!
I saw some definitive figures which, from memory, said costs were £353 per resident for care, £459 for nursing.
So that is some margin in your local Essex home; no idea what the national average is, that said. Plus why are all the care homes going bust so perhaps those figures are incomplete.
It can't be wet surely? Surely even if you are mad enough to fork out for the price for a tiny bag at a garage it will be for use now, not in 2 years time!
Garages invariably store it where it gets sodden, in my experience.
That’s huge. I’ve nibbled a few quid. If he suddenly surges to second in Nevada or South Carolina then I could see his price being the new Warren in the 30s to 60s range.
I'm not saying you are wrong, but the simple reason Steyer is at 500/1 is because he's at under 5% nationally and we are less than a fortnight from Super Tuesday.
Yeah, but 500/1?
He topped a Nevada caucus poll 5 days ago and he's been second in several South Carolina primary polls as well.
I'm not saying he's going to win. I'm saying his price looks value next to Michelle Obama, who's half his price, and Hillary Clinton who's over ten times shorter!
I'm not worried. More likely to be in a road traffic accident than struck down by coronavirus.
Your complacency is *interesting*
While sober analysis of the outbreak suggests serious concern is warranted, if everyone were to react like you, the economy would already have crashed, and doctors wouldn't be turning up for work...
So there's that.
But, you didn’t just panic first. You come on here several times a day to publicly shit your pants - repeatedly.
You’re the guy who’d be put out of his misery or sent to the rear in a straight-jacket, if you’d been in the trenches: no-one wants to hear, “OH MY GOD, WE’RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!” several times a day.
It does no-one any good.
Well you are free to ignore my prognostications.
Though anyone who wants to protect their money or assets might perhaps be less complacent.
And also GLOBAL DEATH is just more interesting than the wage structure of care homes, or the government's plans for wood burning stoves, to anyone "normal". A category which clearly excludes you and others on PB.
Ooh I am not sure it is more interesting than the wage structure of care homes. I genuinely have spent hours thinking about that!!
I saw some definitive figures which, from memory, said costs were £353 per resident for care, £459 for nursing.
So that is some margin in your local Essex home; no idea what the national average is, that said. Plus why are all the care homes going bust so perhaps those figures are incomplete.
I'm not worried. More likely to be in a road traffic accident than struck down by coronavirus.
Your complacency is *interesting*
I'm sure its contagious. Lots of things are contagious.
Two thirds of a million people die from influenza annually every single year. So far there's a fraction of one percent who have died due to this outbreak. How many do you think have died from influenza since this outbreak began?
Are you complacent about influenza?
Do you think more people will die from influenza or COVID-19 this year?
If this is the case then China should abandon it's quarantine, right? It's only flu after all. Why haven't they already?
Never mind the health care system being overwhelmed when 10-20% of the population need hospitalizing.
China has an active outbreak, it makes sense to quarantine. If people here get the disease it makes sense to quarantine (humanely) and to self-isolate. It makes sense to self-isolate if you have influenza too!
Whole countries don't get isolated over influenza though. Complacency based on the lethality is unwise, the virus is new to humans meaning a significant potential for more severe mutations the longer it is in the wild.
What we are seeing is unprecedented, the world's second largest economy has slowed significantly. It is now loose in Japan, South Korea, Iran and allegedly in others. The impact of this will be bigger than anything similar in living memory. It's not simply about deaths but also economies and the functioning of government/health care.
No it's not the end of the world, but neither is it nothing to be concerned about.
I'm not worried. More likely to be in a road traffic accident than struck down by coronavirus.
Your complacency is *interesting*
While sober analysis of the outbreak suggests serious concern is warranted, if everyone were to react like you, the economy would already have crashed, and doctors wouldn't be turning up for work...
Yeah, but when the real emergency strikes, it will be bipolar drunken fear-mongerers like me who get out alive, because we panicked FIRST. Meanwhile all the boring sane sober people like you will be dead.
So there's that.
But, you didn’t just panic first. You come on here several times a day to publicly shit your pants - repeatedly.
You’re the guy who’d be put out of his misery or sent to the rear in a straight-jacket, if you’d been in the trenches: no-one wants to hear, “OH MY GOD, WE’RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!” several times a day.
It does no-one any good.
Well you are free to ignore my prognostications.
Though anyone who wants to protect their money or assets might perhaps be less complacent.
And also GLOBAL DEATH is just more interesting than the wage structure of care homes, or the government's plans for wood burning stoves, to anyone "normal". A category which clearly excludes you and others on PB.
Ooh I am not sure it is more interesting than the wage structure of care homes. I genuinely have spent hours thinking about that!!
I saw some definitive figures which, from memory, said costs were £353 per resident for care, £459 for nursing.
So that is some margin in your local Essex home; no idea what the national average is, that said. Plus why are all the care homes going bust so perhaps those figures are incomplete.
I am very confused by the announcement on stoves and fires today. There will be a ban on buying wet wood under 2 cu metres and then it has to have instructions on seasoning. You will not be allowed to burn wet wood.
Who the hell burns wet wood?
I have 2 stoves in our main house and I'm about to install a stove in our second house. So far I have got all my wood from my garden and I season it myself. If and when I do run out I will approach a tree surgeon for wet wood they don't want and season it myself because I have the space.
Wood that is sold commercially for burning in home stoves is always seasoned. Most people don't have the space to season their own wood. They are saying it must be seasoned in kilns. Why? That just speeds up the process but wastes energy and pollutes.
99% of people do what is required (re wood) anyway and those that don't are those that can season anyway. Nobody burns wet wood (Ash is one wood that can be burnt wet, but why would you?).
Confused.
Not really, Wood burning stoves, along with diesel vehicles, are two of the main sources for PM pollution in the air we are breathing and this is the problem the Government is finally trying to address.
It's all very well banging on about being green and how much power is generated from renewables but the real issue is air quality in our towns and cities and in particular the levels of Particulate Matter Pollution and especially those particles below 2.5 micrometers in diameter.
I am glad you have identified the rural poor as the main cause of low "air quality in our towns and cities".
In rural Wales, there are many poor people who burn wood because it is all they can afford to heat their damp houses.
Apparently, this is the cause of the poor air quality in London. Funnily enough, the air quality in rural Wales where the wood burning is going on is actually very high.
Of course, air quality in London does cause deaths
I am very confused by the announcement on stoves and fires today. There will be a ban on buying wet wood under 2 cu metres and then it has to have instructions on seasoning. You will not be allowed to burn wet wood.
Who the hell burns wet wood?
I have 2 stoves in our main house and I'm about to install a stove in our second house. So far I have got all my wood from my garden and I season it myself. If and when I do run out I will approach a tree surgeon for wet wood they don't want and season it myself because I have the space.
Wood that is sold commercially for burning in home stoves is always seasoned. Most people don't have the space to season their own wood. They are saying it must be seasoned in kilns. Why? That just speeds up the process but wastes energy and pollutes.
99% of people do what is required (re wood) anyway and those that don't are those that can season anyway. Nobody burns wet wood (Ash is one wood that can be burnt wet, but why would you?).
Confused.
Lots of people. It’s cheaper. That its thermal efficiency is better doesn’t occur to them as they just see the purchase price. To have enough wood from your garden you must own your own forest through?
But I don't believe it is available. All the stuff that is advertised is seasoned.
No forest. I have a 2/3 acre garden. When we moved in 10 years ago we took down about 5 fully grown western red cedars, a dead large yew and cut back laurel hedges that had been allowed to turn into trees. Since then we have had a very large scots pine die and a double trunked ash that fell and a holly tree that died. I have also collected wood from neighbours when they get tree surgeons in so also have oak and apple.
I'm not worried. More likely to be in a road traffic accident than struck down by coronavirus.
Your complacency is *interesting*
While sober analysis of the outbreak suggests serious concern is warranted, if everyone were to react like you, the economy would already have crashed, and doctors wouldn't be turning up for work...
Yeah, but when the real emergency strikes, it will be bipolar drunken fear-mongerers like me who get out alive, because we panicked FIRST. Meanwhile all the boring sane sober people like you will be dead.
So there's that.
But, you didn’t just panic first. You come on here several times a day to publicly shit your pants - repeatedly.
You’re the guy who’d be put out of his misery or sent to the rear in a straight-jacket, if you’d been in the trenches: no-one wants to hear, “OH MY GOD, WE’RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!” several times a day.
It does no-one any good.
Well you are free to ignore my prognostications.
Though anyone who wants to protect their money or assets might perhaps be less complacent.
And also GLOBAL DEATH is just more interesting than the wage structure of care homes, or the government's plans for wood burning stoves, to anyone "normal". A category which clearly excludes you and others on PB.
Ooh I am not sure it is more interesting than the wage structure of care homes. I genuinely have spent hours thinking about that!!
I saw some definitive figures which, from memory, said costs were £353 per resident for care, £459 for nursing.
So that is some margin in your local Essex home; no idea what the national average is, that said. Plus why are all the care homes going bust so perhaps those figures are incomplete.
I am very confused by the announcement on stoves and fires today. There will be a ban on buying wet wood under 2 cu metres and then it has to have instructions on seasoning. You will not be allowed to burn wet wood.
Who the hell burns wet wood?
I have 2 stoves in our main house and I'm about to install a stove in our second house. So far I have got all my wood from my garden and I season it myself. If and when I do run out I will approach a tree surgeon for wet wood they don't want and season it myself because I have the space.
Wood that is sold commercially for burning in home stoves is always seasoned. Most people don't have the space to season their own wood. They are saying it must be seasoned in kilns. Why? That just speeds up the process but wastes energy and pollutes.
99% of people do what is required (re wood) anyway and those that don't are those that can season anyway. Nobody burns wet wood (Ash is one wood that can be burnt wet, but why would you?).
Confused.
Lots of people. It’s cheaper. That its thermal efficiency is better doesn’t occur to them as they just see the purchase price. To have enough wood from your garden you must own your own forest through?
But I don't believe it is available. All the stuff that is advertised is seasoned.
There are many people in the Welsh village I grew up in who gather and burn wood. They may store the wood for a few weeks or months, but not for two years (which I understand is the proposal).
I am very confused by the announcement on stoves and fires today. There will be a ban on buying wet wood under 2 cu metres and then it has to have instructions on seasoning. You will not be allowed to burn wet wood.
Who the hell burns wet wood?
I have 2 stoves in our main house and I'm about to install a stove in our second house. So far I have got all my wood from my garden and I season it myself. If and when I do run out I will approach a tree surgeon for wet wood they don't want and season it myself because I have the space.
Wood that is sold commercially for burning in home stoves is always seasoned. Most people don't have the space to season their own wood. They are saying it must be seasoned in kilns. Why? That just speeds up the process but wastes energy and pollutes.
99% of people do what is required (re wood) anyway and those that don't are those that can season anyway. Nobody burns wet wood (Ash is one wood that can be burnt wet, but why would you?).
Confused.
Lots of people. It’s cheaper. That its thermal efficiency is better doesn’t occur to them as they just see the purchase price. To have enough wood from your garden you must own your own forest through?
But I don't believe it is available. All the stuff that is advertised is seasoned.
There are many people in the Welsh village I grew up in who gather and burn wood. They may store the wood for a few weeks or months, but not for two years (which I understand is the proposal).
My cousin in Ireland still burns turf and peat.
Yes but as I pointed out earlier these people will continue to do so, so the rule changes will have zero impact on them. My complaint is that the Govt changes will have no positive impact and a negative impact if they insist on kiln dried wood.
I am very confused by the announcement on stoves and fires today. There will be a ban on buying wet wood under 2 cu metres and then it has to have instructions on seasoning. You will not be allowed to burn wet wood.
Who the hell burns wet wood?
I have 2 stoves in our main house and I'm about to install a stove in our second house. So far I have got all my wood from my garden and I season it myself. If and when I do run out I will approach a tree surgeon for wet wood they don't want and season it myself because I have the space.
Wood that is sold commercially for burning in home stoves is always seasoned. Most people don't have the space to season their own wood. They are saying it must be seasoned in kilns. Why? That just speeds up the process but wastes energy and pollutes.
99% of people do what is required (re wood) anyway and those that don't are those that can season anyway. Nobody burns wet wood (Ash is one wood that can be burnt wet, but why would you?).
Confused.
Not really, Wood burning stoves, along with diesel vehicles, are two of the main sources for PM pollution in the air we are breathing and this is the problem the Government is finally trying to address.
It's all very well banging on about being green and how much power is generated from renewables but the real issue is air quality in our towns and cities and in particular the levels of Particulate Matter Pollution and especially those particles below 2.5 micrometers in diameter.
I am glad you have identified the rural poor as the main cause of low "air quality in our towns and cities".
In rural Wales, there are many poor people who burn wood because it is all they can afford to heat their damp houses.
Apparently, this is the cause of the poor air quality in London. Funnily enough, the air quality in rural Wales where the wood burning is going on is actually very high.
Of course, air quality in London does cause deaths
I am very confused by the announcement on stoves and fires today. There will be a ban on buying wet wood under 2 cu metres and then it has to have instructions on seasoning. You will not be allowed to burn wet wood.
Who the hell burns wet wood?
I have 2 stoves in our main house and I'm about to install a stove in our second house. So far I have got all my wood from my garden and I season it myself. If and when I do run out I will approach a tree surgeon for wet wood they don't want and season it myself because I have the space.
Wood that is sold commercially for burning in home stoves is always seasoned. Most people don't have the space to season their own wood. They are saying it must be seasoned in kilns. Why? That just speeds up the process but wastes energy and pollutes.
99% of people do what is required (re wood) anyway and those that don't are those that can season anyway. Nobody burns wet wood (Ash is one wood that can be burnt wet, but why would you?).
Confused.
Not really, Wood burning stoves, along with diesel vehicles, are two of the main sources for PM pollution in the air we are breathing and this is the problem the Government is finally trying to address.
It's all very well banging on about being green and how much power is generated from renewables but the real issue is air quality in our towns and cities and in particular the levels of Particulate Matter Pollution and especially those particles below 2.5 micrometers in diameter.
I am glad you have identified the rural poor as the main cause of low "air quality in our towns and cities".
In rural Wales, there are many poor people who burn wood because it is all they can afford to heat their damp houses.
Apparently, this is the cause of the poor air quality in London. Funnily enough, the air quality in rural Wales where the wood burning is going on is actually very high.
Of course, air quality in London does cause deaths
I am glad you have identified the rural poor as the main cause of low "air quality in our towns and cities".
In rural Wales, there are many poor people who burn wood because it is all they can afford to heat their damp houses.
Apparently, this is the cause of the poor air quality in London. Funnily enough, the air quality in rural Wales where the wood burning is going on is actually very high.
Of course, air quality in London does cause deaths
But I don't think the cause is the rural poor burning wood.
I don't think I ever used the term "rural" or "poor" but then reading what other people actually write isn't one of your strong points.
Maybe if you got down off your sanctimonious high horse once in a while and looked at the real world you'd realise wood burning isn't just a part of rural life or a romanticised idyll but actively goes on in urban areas and contributes to PM 2.5 pollution (along with diesel particulates).
I'm NOT advocating the total abolition of wood burning stoves or ovens but there's a compelling argument for a severe restriction of their use in urban areas.
I am very confused by the announcement on stoves and fires today. There will be a ban on buying wet wood under 2 cu metres and then it has to have instructions on seasoning. You will not be allowed to burn wet wood.
Who the hell burns wet wood?
I have 2 stoves in our main house and I'm about to install a stove in our second house. So far I have got all my wood from my garden and I season it myself. If and when I do run out I will approach a tree surgeon for wet wood they don't want and season it myself because I have the space.
Wood that is sold commercially for burning in home stoves is always seasoned. Most people don't have the space to season their own wood. They are saying it must be seasoned in kilns. Why? That just speeds up the process but wastes energy and pollutes.
99% of people do what is required (re wood) anyway and those that don't are those that can season anyway. Nobody burns wet wood (Ash is one wood that can be burnt wet, but why would you?).
Confused.
Lots of people. It’s cheaper. That its thermal efficiency is better doesn’t occur to them as they just see the purchase price. To have enough wood from your garden you must own your own forest through?
But I don't believe it is available. All the stuff that is advertised is seasoned.
There are many people in the Welsh village I grew up in who gather and burn wood. They may store the wood for a few weeks or months, but not for two years (which I understand is the proposal).
My cousin in Ireland still burns turf and peat.
Yes but as I pointed out earlier these people will continue to do so, so the rule changes will have zero impact on them. My complaint is that the Govt changes will have no positive impact and a negative impact if they insist on kiln dried wood.
I think there is lots of unseasoned wood available for purchase in local shops/smallholdings in Wales.
My guess is hardly any of it is seasoned/kiln dried for two years, although it may have been stored for a few months.
The law seems (i) unforceable and (2) misdirected, as air quality in rural areas where there is a lot of wood-burning is high.
I am glad you have identified the rural poor as the main cause of low "air quality in our towns and cities".
In rural Wales, there are many poor people who burn wood because it is all they can afford to heat their damp houses.
Apparently, this is the cause of the poor air quality in London. Funnily enough, the air quality in rural Wales where the wood burning is going on is actually very high.
Of course, air quality in London does cause deaths
But I don't think the cause is the rural poor burning wood.
I don't think I ever used the term "rural" or "poor" but then reading what other people actually write isn't one of your strong points.
Maybe if you got down off your sanctimonious high horse once in a while and looked at the real world you'd realise wood burning isn't just a part of rural life or a romanticised idyll but actively goes on in urban areas and contributes to PM 2.5 pollution (along with diesel particulates).
I'm NOT advocating the total abolition of wood burning stoves or ovens but there's a compelling argument for a severe restriction of their use in urban areas.
I don't believe that the main cause of particulates in London air is wood-burning. Prove it.
The death of Ella Kissi-Debrah was due to the fact that she walked to school along the London South Circular Road. The particulates along the South Circular Road are not caused by wood-burners.
You did not mention the rural poor -- but that is because you have not understood that most people in poorer, rural parts of the country are the ones who burn wood. It is not as you suggest because they are living "a romanticised idyll", it is because they are poor and live in damp old houses.
I am glad you have identified the rural poor as the main cause of low "air quality in our towns and cities".
In rural Wales, there are many poor people who burn wood because it is all they can afford to heat their damp houses.
Apparently, this is the cause of the poor air quality in London. Funnily enough, the air quality in rural Wales where the wood burning is going on is actually very high.
Of course, air quality in London does cause deaths
But I don't think the cause is the rural poor burning wood.
I don't think I ever used the term "rural" or "poor" but then reading what other people actually write isn't one of your strong points.
Maybe if you got down off your sanctimonious high horse once in a while and looked at the real world you'd realise wood burning isn't just a part of rural life or a romanticised idyll but actively goes on in urban areas and contributes to PM 2.5 pollution (along with diesel particulates).
I'm NOT advocating the total abolition of wood burning stoves or ovens but there's a compelling argument for a severe restriction of their use in urban areas.
But how is the Govt proposal (in relation to wood) making one iota of difference in an urban area?
I don't believe that the main cause of particulates in London air is wood-burning. Prove it.
The death of Ella Kissi-Debrah was due to the fact that she walked to school along the London South Circular Road. The particulates along the South Circular Road are not caused by wood-burners.
You did not mention the rural poor -- but that is because you have not understood that most people in poorer, rural parts of the country are the ones who burn wood. It is not as you suggest because they are living "a romanticised idyll", it is because they are poor and live in damp old houses.
Once again, I never said wood burning was the "main cause" but it is a cause and it does happen in urban areas.
All this bad-tempered exchange illustrates is the gulf between "town" and "country" that exists and the misconceptions on both sides.
My PB political opinion scraper-bot has just exploded. Opinions which deny they are opinions. Comments that claim they are not comments. Is this the new Starmer Labour?
I am very confused by the announcement on stoves and fires today. There will be a ban on buying wet wood under 2 cu metres and then it has to have instructions on seasoning. You will not be allowed to burn wet wood.
Who the hell burns wet wood?
I have 2 stoves in our main house and I'm about to install a stove in our second house. So far I have got all my wood from my garden and I season it myself. If and when I do run out I will approach a tree surgeon for wet wood they don't want and season it myself because I have the space.
Wood that is sold commercially for burning in home stoves is always seasoned. Most people don't have the space to season their own wood. They are saying it must be seasoned in kilns. Why? That just speeds up the process but wastes energy and pollutes.
99% of people do what is required (re wood) anyway and those that don't are those that can season anyway. Nobody burns wet wood (Ash is one wood that can be burnt wet, but why would you?).
Confused.
Not really, Wood burning stoves, along with diesel vehicles, are two of the main sources for PM pollution in the air we are breathing and this is the problem the Government is finally trying to address.
It's all very well banging on about being green and how much power is generated from renewables but the real issue is air quality in our towns and cities and in particular the levels of Particulate Matter Pollution and especially those particles below 2.5 micrometers in diameter.
I am glad you have identified the rural poor as the main cause of low "air quality in our towns and cities".
In rural Wales, there are many poor people who burn wood because it is all they can afford to heat their damp houses.
Apparently, this is the cause of the poor air quality in London. Funnily enough, the air quality in rural Wales where the wood burning is going on is actually very high.
Of course, air quality in London does cause deaths
I don't believe that the main cause of particulates in London air is wood-burning. Prove it.
The death of Ella Kissi-Debrah was due to the fact that she walked to school along the London South Circular Road. The particulates along the South Circular Road are not caused by wood-burners.
You did not mention the rural poor -- but that is because you have not understood that most people in poorer, rural parts of the country are the ones who burn wood. It is not as you suggest because they are living "a romanticised idyll", it is because they are poor and live in damp old houses.
Once again, I never said wood burning was the "main cause" but it is a cause and it does happen in urban areas.
All this bad-tempered exchange illustrates is the gulf between "town" and "country" that exists and the misconceptions on both sides.
This is a genuinely stupid idea that will piss off a lot of people unnecessarily. It will also be ignored on a massive scale and be impossible to police. It is the very essence of bad law.
Comments
When we have a quarter decent vaccine for coronavirus I will share your confidence about the dangers - until then I will remember FMD as all farmers do and fear.
One gets the impression they don't know what they are talking about.
99% say of the stoves are burning seasoned wood that has been bought. So no change there.
1% say is burnt by people who season their own wood. Just made their life more difficult, when they are more environmentally friendly than people who buy seasoned wood (no CO2 given off in getting hold of my wood).
And seasoned wood burnt now has to be kilned dried, so kilns need to be heated so giving off more CO2 than doing it naturally.
Net effect - More CO2.
And I repeat nobody burns wet wood which implies they haven't a clue about the issue.
I'm reminded that when the Monarchy was restored in 1660 it was declared that Charles II had been the lawful monarch all along, as though the previous eleven years hadn't happened. It's the same with Remainers. This period of British history will cease to exist for them once the horror is over.
I'm sure there are Leavers who will continue to insist that we haven't left properly too.
Admittedly some people would rather discuss care home business models because they know consciously or subconsciously about the fire and have chosen just not to worry about it and/or give in to the flames. That's fine too but for those of us seriously worried, in an active way, it is sort of painful to see. But each to their own etc.
There have been 62,000 confirmed cases in Hubei alone, with 2,200 deaths. Half of China is locked down, the container shipping industry is in chaos, the world industrial system is struggling and people are being forced to quarantine themselves for a fortnight if they travel abroad.
And you are having periodic meltdowns about how awful everything is.
If it is ‘nowhere near as serious as 9/11’ you are effectively admitting this is a slightly more drastic than usual flu outbreak and your overreaction is pure hysteria.
If your reaction is even remotely justified, you have effectively already conceded it is far worse than 9/11, and your statement makes no sense.
Which is it?
Two thirds of a million people die from influenza annually every single year. So far there's a fraction of one percent who have died due to this outbreak. How many do you think have died from influenza since this outbreak began?
Are you complacent about influenza?
Do you think more people will die from influenza or COVID-19 this year?
China reported outbreaks in hospitals in Beijing and clusters of infections in at least four prisons in three provinces.
So that is some margin in your local Essex home; no idea what the national average is, that said. Plus why are all the care homes going bust so perhaps those figures are incomplete.
https://jrf.org.uk/report/calculating-operating-costs-care-homes
As I understand it seasoned wood can still be sold. We will not have to buy kiln dried.
This better be the case, because I take deliveries of seasoned logs from a guy who does coppicing and so on. I am not interested in paying for kiln dried.
On a balance of probabilities, quite probably the flu.
But there is a greater than zero likelihood it goes all global pandemic, and death rates from this coronavirus infection are somewhere around 20x those for influenza.
There are things they could do re wood.
a) Try and do something about the marketplace. Tree surgeons mainly dispose of their wood as waste as it is not worth their while to season and sell. It is a waste product mostly. Yet we import seasoned wood with the consequential CO2 impact.
b) Also most of the wood they cut down is soft and most people will only buy hard wood for burning, yet there is nothing wrong with soft wood. People fear chimney fires, but that isn't a concern if burnt properly (try telling Scandinavians and Americans they shouldn't burn soft wood). The other reason is soft wood burns quicker, but then it seasons 4 times quicker and grows much quicker.
We have a natural waste product that is dumped that can be used as a fuel!
Too much for a home without a cellar; too few for a home with a cellar.
Never mind the health care system being overwhelmed when 10-20% of the population need hospitalising.
And yes, crazy way of buying wood.
Wet just means unseasoned though, not dripping wet. Seasoned should have less than 20% moisture inside.
I can understand it in urban areas. But air quality is hardly an issue where I am.
If it does become a major outbreak in the UK then I might become concerned then, but until then panicking achieves absolutely nothing and strikes me as illogical.
Its a fear of the unknown that is the issue here, rather than a mathematical or logical concern.
Closer to home, perhaps let the people in PHE know so they can chill out a bit. Phil Thompson off pb says we are more likely to get knocked over by a car. We'll be fine.
As for the people in PHE they should be concerned, that's their job. Lifeguards have to be concerned people under their supervision might drown, does that mean if we and our friends and loved ones are not in or near the water we should still be concerned about drowning all the time?
When I'm driving I've got to be concerned about road traffic risks. In the week to come I will drive more than I will come into contact with corona patients.
I like ash.
And the announcement I saw said seasoned wood did have to be kiln dried. utterly bonkers if true. It will be an increase in pollution.
It would be rather ironic if he had gotten elected partially by, in my mind, blaming the government for things it couldn't fix and promising to fix things the government couldn't alter - only to lose the election due to an economic slowdown he had no part in.
That’s huge. I’ve nibbled a few quid. If he suddenly surges to second in Nevada or South Carolina then I could see his price being the new Warren in the 30s to 60s range.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eadric_the_Wild
About 5 years ago I had a double trunk one fall on the edge of a ditch. I'm now starting to burn it. Excellent wood. I have noticed it leaves a lot of very fine ash and wondered if this was the reason for its name. Typically I have to empty the ash every week, but with Ash it is every other day.
I have explained I expect [many, many] more people to die from infectious influenza than infectious COVID19 - and I'm not concerned about influenza.
The swimming pool comment was an analogy but I can do a better one. I may not be concerned about influenza but PHE most definitely are concerned by it every single year. It is their job to be concerned, I'm not saying they shouldn't do their job, I am saying we shouldn't lose our heads.
If the outbreak had started with the same ferocity in NYC or Berlin it'd be a lot more concerning than it starting in Wuhan.
And they are already dropping branches onto main roads and footpaths alike. They are dangerous for tree surgeons to tackle for this very reason. You get a dying tree, then your options of what to do with it are quite limited.
Oh and I'm not giving any advice, so I'm not sure what advice of mine you're bothered by. @eadric asked if anyone was not concerned and I said I'm not - I'm not giving any advice so do as you please.
He topped a Nevada caucus poll 5 days ago and he's been second in several South Carolina primary polls as well.
I'm not saying he's going to win. I'm saying his price looks value next to Michelle Obama, who's half his price, and Hillary Clinton who's over ten times shorter!
What we are seeing is unprecedented, the world's second largest economy has slowed significantly. It is now loose in Japan, South Korea, Iran and allegedly in others. The impact of this will be bigger than anything similar in living memory. It's not simply about deaths but also economies and the functioning of government/health care.
No it's not the end of the world, but neither is it nothing to be concerned about.
In rural Wales, there are many poor people who burn wood because it is all they can afford to heat their damp houses.
Apparently, this is the cause of the poor air quality in London. Funnily enough, the air quality in rural Wales where the wood burning is going on is actually very high.
Of course, air quality in London does cause deaths
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-47255859
But I don't think the cause is the rural poor burning wood.
No forest. I have a 2/3 acre garden. When we moved in 10 years ago we took down about 5 fully grown western red cedars, a dead large yew and cut back laurel hedges that had been allowed to turn into trees. Since then we have had a very large scots pine die and a double trunked ash that fell and a holly tree that died. I have also collected wood from neighbours when they get tree surgeons in so also have oak and apple.
You really can spot a bargain! Well done.
My cousin in Ireland still burns turf and peat.
Maybe if you got down off your sanctimonious high horse once in a while and looked at the real world you'd realise wood burning isn't just a part of rural life or a romanticised idyll but actively goes on in urban areas and contributes to PM 2.5 pollution (along with diesel particulates).
I'm NOT advocating the total abolition of wood burning stoves or ovens but there's a compelling argument for a severe restriction of their use in urban areas.
My guess is hardly any of it is seasoned/kiln dried for two years, although it may have been stored for a few months.
The law seems (i) unforceable and (2) misdirected, as air quality in rural areas where there is a lot of wood-burning is high.
The trick is to write around it.
I’ve had relationships that were less prolonged than the Iowa count.
Would be a more elegant construction.
The death of Ella Kissi-Debrah was due to the fact that she walked to school along the London South Circular Road. The particulates along the South Circular Road are not caused by wood-burners.
You did not mention the rural poor -- but that is because you have not understood that most people in poorer, rural parts of the country are the ones who burn wood. It is not as you suggest because they are living "a romanticised idyll", it is because they are poor and live in damp old houses.
https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1230918117812994049?s=09
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2011/jun/03/southern-cross-care-private-equity
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/feb/28/profit-hungry-firms-gambling-care-homes-stakes-too-high
.. and the debts they accrued the reason for the exorbitant residents fees yet inabilty to pay decent wages.
All this bad-tempered exchange illustrates is the gulf between "town" and "country" that exists and the misconceptions on both sides.
And the passport isn't bad too.