It has to be IBM, doesn't it? Are there any other Western players?
In the old Met Office in Bracknell, there used to be two Cray Supercomputers, known colloquially as the Cray Twins. I believe the company is now part of HP.
Was that some time ago , I thought they had IBM HPC system currently.
Would have been early ‘90s. I lived close by, and a family friend who worked there gave me a tour one evening as a excitable young teenager.
OK so I am probably correct that they have an IBM HPC power setup nowadays.
I don’t believe you are allowed to top up in the NHS.
If you choose to supplement your healthcare the NHS can kick you out (ie it’s our way or the highway)
Foxy can advise better, but my understanding is that you can supplement if you're getting treatment for a different condition. What they don't like is if you flip-flop between NHS and private for the same treatment, potentially creating confusion.
I think you can still pay extra for a private room, too, perhaps other kinds of non-medical upgrades? I've fortunately never been seriously ill yet so I don't actually know.
but of course you would if you were ill....
No, I wouldn't, actually (when I had a cancer scare I waited for the NHS to test me rather than rush off to a private clinic), though I don't condemn those who do. I don't think there's anything very inconsistent in wanting the NHS to be better for everyone and doing your best for your family and yourself in whatever the current situation is. But I'd rather not do it myself, as a matter of personal choice.
It has to be IBM, doesn't it? Are there any other Western players?
In the old Met Office in Bracknell, there used to be two Cray Supercomputers, known colloquially as the Cray Twins. I believe the company is now part of HP.
Was that some time ago , I thought they had IBM HPC system currently.
Would have been early ‘90s. I lived close by, and a family friend who worked there gave me a tour one evening as a excitable young teenager.
OK so I am probably correct that they have an IBM HPC power setup nowadays.
Yes that is odd. Have things really moved forward that much in the last 4 years?
Moore’s Law would suggest that computers are now four times as powerful as they were four years ago.
You are probably reading this on a computer more powerful than the eighties vintage Cray supercomputers.
I thought that we were getting to the limits of that. The £1bn figure includes a major upgrade in another 5 years. And my laptop is ancient. Over 5 years old.
It seems to be slowing down, yes, but computing power is still rising exponentially (and I am using that word literally (as I am the word literally itself)).
Edit: your phone is more powerful than a Cray 2, let alone your laptop.
I don’t believe you are allowed to top up in the NHS.
If you choose to supplement your healthcare the NHS can kick you out (ie it’s our way or the highway)
Foxy can advise better, but my understanding is that you can supplement if you're getting treatment for a different condition. What they don't like is if you flip-flop between NHS and private for the same treatment, potentially creating confusion.
I think you can still pay extra for a private room, too, perhaps other kinds of non-medical upgrades? I've fortunately never been seriously ill yet so I don't actually know.
Twenty years ago I was diagnosed for a serious condition privately, referred to an NHS hospital. I had the operation on the NHS and then ended back in private healthcare for the post-operative monitoring, which is for life (and includes things like periodic colonoscopies, so the joys described downthread are now very familiar). When my private healthcare insurance ended I got referred back to the NHS which took over the monitoring.
You are right that the switching did cause a little confusion, but not of any significance (the biggest hassle was dealing with the insurance company regarding the NHS operation). But it can be done.
It has to be IBM, doesn't it? Are there any other Western players?
In the old Met Office in Bracknell, there used to be two Cray Supercomputers, known colloquially as the Cray Twins. I believe the company is now part of HP.
Was that some time ago , I thought they had IBM HPC system currently.
Would have been early ‘90s. I lived close by, and a family friend who worked there gave me a tour one evening as a excitable young teenager.
OK so I am probably correct that they have an IBM HPC power setup nowadays.
Yes that is odd. Have things really moved forward that much in the last 4 years?
Moore’s Law would suggest that computers are now four times as powerful as they were four years ago....
Close enough... https://www.top500.org/lists/2019/11/ November 2015 Tianhe-2*, which means Milky Way-2, led the list with a performance of 33.86 petaflop/s (quadrillions of calculations per second or Pflop/s) on the Linpack benchmark. Keeping its hold on the No. 2 spot is Titan, a Cray XK7 system installed at DOE’s Oak Ridge National Laboratory. Titan, the top system in the United States and one of the most energy-efficient systems on the list, achieved 17.59 petaflop/s on the Linpack benchmark.
November 2019 Summit and Sierra remain in the top two spots. Both are IBM-built supercomputers employing Power9 CPUs and NVIDIA Tesla V100 GPUs. Oak Ridge National Laboratory’s Summit system holds top honors with an HPL result of 148.6 petaflops. The second-ranked Sierra system at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory comes in at 94.6 petaflops.
* Though note Tianhe-2 was already a couple of years old at this point.
Starmer is currently relatively positively received by voters because they don't understand what an ardent lefty he actually is.
He's the definition of a hypocrite champagne socialist.
It is Remainers where Starmer polls best, Leavers are not fans
I suspect that Brexit is going to seem old news (whether good or bad) by 2024 and almost nobody will make their votes depend on what people did in the Brexit wars. There will be mood music about "closer working partnership with the EU" and potentially something about making it easier to travel and work abroad (with its inevitable corollary) but that'll be as far as it goes.
On the Tory side, they'll have their shiny new trade deals with everyone to boast of. Or not.
Seems a done deal for Starmer. I do wonder if they'd be better with Nandy. But neither will be as bad as Corbyn.
That’s really the point. Starmer strikes me as dull and unimaginative but he is intelligent and capable of developing a coherent argument. It’s a massive step forward from where Labour has been since 2015.
I thought he would be really boring before I went to see him talk in Newcastle and he was actually pretty warm and charismatic...
Perhaps he’s better in person.
Maybe but I know a dull lawyer when I see one. On the plus side he is going to have several years to learn the job, refine the team and develop his pitch. Given where Labour is starting from he may need all the time he can get.
I wish him well. We need an opposition that offers a viable choice. Governments without one become self indulgent and more foolish than usual.
After five years of constant conflict and confrontation under Cummings/Johnson dull and competent may be looking very appealing. What Nandy or Starmer will do is ensure that Labour provides a strong opposition. We have not had one for a long time and it will come at a time when almost all the talent that exists on the Tory side will be on the backbenches.
I will be utterly gobsmacked if Cummings is still there in 4 years time.
If it's true there are health concerns then he will have to go but barring that I expect he will be. I'd expect him to last about as long as Campbell did under Blair.
It has to be IBM, doesn't it? Are there any other Western players?
In the old Met Office in Bracknell, there used to be two Cray Supercomputers, known colloquially as the Cray Twins. I believe the company is now part of HP.
Was that some time ago , I thought they had IBM HPC system currently.
Would have been early ‘90s. I lived close by, and a family friend who worked there gave me a tour one evening as a excitable young teenager.
OK so I am probably correct that they have an IBM HPC power setup nowadays.
Yes that is odd. Have things really moved forward that much in the last 4 years?
You would expect 10 years at least , they did say 2022 so may be looking at 4 year procurement cycle on new stuff, likely do POC etc and so take a fair bit of time for sales cycle
I don’t believe you are allowed to top up in the NHS.
If you choose to supplement your healthcare the NHS can kick you out (ie it’s our way or the highway)
Foxy can advise better, but my understanding is that you can supplement if you're getting treatment for a different condition. What they don't like is if you flip-flop between NHS and private for the same treatment, potentially creating confusion.
I think you can still pay extra for a private room, too, perhaps other kinds of non-medical upgrades? I've fortunately never been seriously ill yet so I don't actually know.
Twenty years ago I was diagnosed for a serious condition privately, referred to an NHS hospital. I had the operation on the NHS and then ended back in private healthcare for the post-operative monitoring, which is for life (and includes things like periodic colonoscopies, so the joys described downthread are now very familiar). When my private healthcare insurance ended I got referred back to the NHS which took over the monitoring.
You are right that the switching did cause a little confusion, but not of any significance (the biggest hassle was dealing with the insurance company regarding the NHS operation). But it can be done.
And given the NHS waiting list for specialist consultations, can be essential.
It has to be IBM, doesn't it? Are there any other Western players?
In the old Met Office in Bracknell, there used to be two Cray Supercomputers, known colloquially as the Cray Twins. I believe the company is now part of HP.
Was that some time ago , I thought they had IBM HPC system currently.
Would have been early ‘90s. I lived close by, and a family friend who worked there gave me a tour one evening as a excitable young teenager.
OK so I am probably correct that they have an IBM HPC power setup nowadays.
Yes that is odd. Have things really moved forward that much in the last 4 years?
Moore’s Law would suggest that computers are now four times as powerful as they were four years ago.
You are probably reading this on a computer more powerful than the eighties vintage Cray supercomputers.
From memory, the 1990s Met Office Crays had 64MB RAM.
I just specced a workstation for a customer with 64GB RAM for $10k.
In lessons on SI prefixes I bore pupils sometimes with the tale of how I spent more on a 20Mb hard drive in1989 than a 2Tb drive costs today. I don’t get bogged down with the difference between 10^3 and 2^10 though.
It has to be IBM, doesn't it? Are there any other Western players?
In the old Met Office in Bracknell, there used to be two Cray Supercomputers, known colloquially as the Cray Twins. I believe the company is now part of HP.
Was that some time ago , I thought they had IBM HPC system currently.
Would have been early ‘90s. I lived close by, and a family friend who worked there gave me a tour one evening as a excitable young teenager.
OK so I am probably correct that they have an IBM HPC power setup nowadays.
Yes that is odd. Have things really moved forward that much in the last 4 years?
Moore’s Law would suggest that computers are now four times as powerful as they were four years ago.
You are probably reading this on a computer more powerful than the eighties vintage Cray supercomputers.
I thought that we were getting to the limits of that. The £1bn figure includes a major upgrade in another 5 years. And my laptop is ancient. Over 5 years old.
It seems to be slowing down, yes, but computing power is still rising exponentially (and I am using that word literally (as I am the word literally itself)).
The rate of increase in transistor densities on chips, which was the original basis for Moore's 'Law', has slowed considerably. The industry has come up with all sorts of other tricks to keep things moving, though.
Seems a done deal for Starmer. I do wonder if they'd be better with Nandy. But neither will be as bad as Corbyn.
That’s really the point. Starmer strikes me as dull and unimaginative but he is intelligent and capable of developing a coherent argument. It’s a massive step forward from where Labour has been since 2015.
I thought he would be really boring before I went to see him talk in Newcastle and he was actually pretty warm and charismatic...
Perhaps he’s better in person.
Maybe but I know a dull lawyer when I see one. On the plus side he is going to have several years to learn the job, refine the team and develop his pitch. Given where Labour is starting from he may need all the time he can get.
I wish him well. We need an opposition that offers a viable choice. Governments without one become self indulgent and more foolish than usual.
Lisa Nandy is clearly the best candidate.
But, it seems, she’ll come a distant third.
Nandy's political appeal is to Labour leavers but there is no guarantee that Labour leavers in the old red wall seats are going to feel enthusiastic about Brexit or Johnson in 5 years time. In fact I would put money on the fact that they won't.
Starmer is by far the better option for Labour, the bulk of the Labour/Lib Dem /Green voter pool have never been fans of Brexit and are unlikely to be so in 2024.
It has to be IBM, doesn't it? Are there any other Western players?
In the old Met Office in Bracknell, there used to be two Cray Supercomputers, known colloquially as the Cray Twins. I believe the company is now part of HP.
Was that some time ago , I thought they had IBM HPC system currently.
Would have been early ‘90s. I lived close by, and a family friend who worked there gave me a tour one evening as a excitable young teenager.
OK so I am probably correct that they have an IBM HPC power setup nowadays.
It has to be IBM, doesn't it? Are there any other Western players?
In the old Met Office in Bracknell, there used to be two Cray Supercomputers, known colloquially as the Cray Twins. I believe the company is now part of HP.
Was that some time ago , I thought they had IBM HPC system currently.
Would have been early ‘90s. I lived close by, and a family friend who worked there gave me a tour one evening as a excitable young teenager.
OK so I am probably correct that they have an IBM HPC power setup nowadays.
Yes that is odd. Have things really moved forward that much in the last 4 years?
Moore’s Law would suggest that computers are now four times as powerful as they were four years ago....
Close enough... https://www.top500.org/lists/2019/11/ November 2015 Tianhe-2*, which means Milky Way-2, led the list with a performance of 33.86 petaflop/s (quadrillions of calculations per second or Pflop/s) on the Linpack benchmark. Keeping its hold on the No. 2 spot is Titan, a Cray XK7 system installed at DOE’s Oak Ridge National Laboratory. Titan, the top system in the United States and one of the most energy-efficient systems on the list, achieved 17.59 petaflop/s on the Linpack benchmark.
November 2019 Summit and Sierra remain in the top two spots. Both are IBM-built supercomputers employing Power9 CPUs and NVIDIA Tesla V100 GPUs. Oak Ridge National Laboratory’s Summit system holds top honors with an HPL result of 148.6 petaflops. The second-ranked Sierra system at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory comes in at 94.6 petaflops.
* Though note Tianhe-2 was already a couple of years old at this point.
So they are using GPUs built for the gaming market to build supercomputers?
Seems a done deal for Starmer. I do wonder if they'd be better with Nandy. But neither will be as bad as Corbyn.
That’s really the point. Starmer strikes me as dull and unimaginative but he is intelligent and capable of developing a coherent argument. It’s a massive step forward from where Labour has been since 2015.
I thought he would be really boring before I went to see him talk in Newcastle and he was actually pretty warm and charismatic...
Perhaps he’s better in person.
Maybe but I know a dull lawyer when I see one. On the plus side he is going to have several years to learn the job, refine the team and develop his pitch. Given where Labour is starting from he may need all the time he can get.
I wish him well. We need an opposition that offers a viable choice. Governments without one become self indulgent and more foolish than usual.
After five years of constant conflict and confrontation under Cummings/Johnson dull and competent may be looking very appealing. What Nandy or Starmer will do is ensure that Labour provides a strong opposition. We have not had one for a long time and it will come at a time when almost all the talent that exists on the Tory side will be on the backbenches.
Which talent are you thinking of on the Tory side which will be on the backbenches? Fox? Davis? Leadsom? Fallon? Green? Grayling?
This cabinet has a refreshing amount of fresh talent rather than sticking with duds of the past.
There is not much talent there, I agree. Cox and Javid are the obvious ones, I guess. The Cabinet will do exactly as it is told.
It has to be IBM, doesn't it? Are there any other Western players?
In the old Met Office in Bracknell, there used to be two Cray Supercomputers, known colloquially as the Cray Twins. I believe the company is now part of HP.
Was that some time ago , I thought they had IBM HPC system currently.
Would have been early ‘90s. I lived close by, and a family friend who worked there gave me a tour one evening as a excitable young teenager.
OK so I am probably correct that they have an IBM HPC power setup nowadays.
Yes that is odd. Have things really moved forward that much in the last 4 years?
Moore’s Law would suggest that computers are now four times as powerful as they were four years ago....
Close enough... https://www.top500.org/lists/2019/11/ November 2015 Tianhe-2*, which means Milky Way-2, led the list with a performance of 33.86 petaflop/s (quadrillions of calculations per second or Pflop/s) on the Linpack benchmark. Keeping its hold on the No. 2 spot is Titan, a Cray XK7 system installed at DOE’s Oak Ridge National Laboratory. Titan, the top system in the United States and one of the most energy-efficient systems on the list, achieved 17.59 petaflop/s on the Linpack benchmark.
November 2019 Summit and Sierra remain in the top two spots. Both are IBM-built supercomputers employing Power9 CPUs and NVIDIA Tesla V100 GPUs. Oak Ridge National Laboratory’s Summit system holds top honors with an HPL result of 148.6 petaflops. The second-ranked Sierra system at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory comes in at 94.6 petaflops.
* Though note Tianhe-2 was already a couple of years old at this point.
So they are using GPUs built for the gaming market to build supercomputers?
Seems a done deal for Starmer. I do wonder if they'd be better with Nandy. But neither will be as bad as Corbyn.
That’s really the point. Starmer strikes me as dull and unimaginative but he is intelligent and capable of developing a coherent argument. It’s a massive step forward from where Labour has been since 2015.
I thought he would be really boring before I went to see him talk in Newcastle and he was actually pretty warm and charismatic...
Perhaps he’s better in person.
Maybe but I know a dull lawyer when I see one. On the plus side he is going to have several years to learn the job, refine the team and develop his pitch. Given where Labour is starting from he may need all the time he can get.
I wish him well. We need an opposition that offers a viable choice. Governments without one become self indulgent and more foolish than usual.
Lisa Nandy is clearly the best candidate.
But, it seems, she’ll come a distant third.
Nandy's political appeal is to Labour leavers but there is no guarantee that Labour leavers in the old red wall seats are going to feel enthusiastic about Brexit or Johnson in 5 years time. In fact I would put money on the fact that they won't.
Starmer is by far the better option for Labour, the bulk of the Labour/Lib Dem /Green voter pool have never been fans of Brexit and are unlikely to be so in 2024.
Isn't it rather that Nandy is displaying rather more appreciation of the mountain that needs to be climbed, and the scale of the change in approach that will be needed? Starmer either doesn't, or does but is keeping his views carefully concealed until after he wins.
Either way, polling people as to which is more likely to become PM isn't particularly enlightening when the reality is that the next Labour leader's job is probably simply caretaker on the road to recovery, cf Kinnock.
It has to be IBM, doesn't it? Are there any other Western players?
In the old Met Office in Bracknell, there used to be two Cray Supercomputers, known colloquially as the Cray Twins. I believe the company is now part of HP.
Was that some time ago , I thought they had IBM HPC system currently.
Would have been early ‘90s. I lived close by, and a family friend who worked there gave me a tour one evening as a excitable young teenager.
OK so I am probably correct that they have an IBM HPC power setup nowadays.
Yes that is odd. Have things really moved forward that much in the last 4 years?
Moore’s Law would suggest that computers are now four times as powerful as they were four years ago.
You are probably reading this on a computer more powerful than the eighties vintage Cray supercomputers.
From memory, the 1990s Met Office Crays had 64MB RAM.
I just specced a workstation for a customer with 64GB RAM for $10k.
First one I worked on had 64K
Up until five years ago we still had a BBC B computer with 128K in one of the labs which we used with a lightgate. It was older than the then head of Physics...
It has to be IBM, doesn't it? Are there any other Western players?
In the old Met Office in Bracknell, there used to be two Cray Supercomputers, known colloquially as the Cray Twins. I believe the company is now part of HP.
Was that some time ago , I thought they had IBM HPC system currently.
Would have been early ‘90s. I lived close by, and a family friend who worked there gave me a tour one evening as a excitable young teenager.
OK so I am probably correct that they have an IBM HPC power setup nowadays.
Mr. Teacher, gaming can sometimes lead to useful innovations elsewhere. VR's main drive is videogames but the technology can be used in immersion therapy to try and reduce anxiety. Not to mention when I played cassette tape videogames I spent the 30 minute loading time reading a book.
Seems a done deal for Starmer. I do wonder if they'd be better with Nandy. But neither will be as bad as Corbyn.
That’s really the point. Starmer strikes me as dull and unimaginative but he is intelligent and capable of developing a coherent argument. It’s a massive step forward from where Labour has been since 2015.
I thought he would be really boring before I went to see him talk in Newcastle and he was actually pretty warm and charismatic...
Perhaps he’s better in person.
Maybe but I know a dull lawyer when I see one. On the plus side he is going to have several years to learn the job, refine the team and develop his pitch. Given where Labour is starting from he may need all the time he can get.
I wish him well. We need an opposition that offers a viable choice. Governments without one become self indulgent and more foolish than usual.
Lisa Nandy is clearly the best candidate.
But, it seems, she’ll come a distant third.
Nandy's political appeal is to Labour leavers but there is no guarantee that Labour leavers in the old red wall seats are going to feel enthusiastic about Brexit or Johnson in 5 years time. In fact I would put money on the fact that they won't.
Starmer is by far the better option for Labour, the bulk of the Labour/Lib Dem /Green voter pool have never been fans of Brexit and are unlikely to be so in 2024.
I have no doubt Starmer will win and a lot will depend on who joins his cabinet. RLB said yesterday she wants Corbyn to have a senior cabinet position and no doubt factions across the party will fight their corner
I do want a sensible opposition holding Boris to account but I do have reservations how Starmer can appeal away from the metropolitan areas which are so labour even now.
Remember, he has not only got to recover the lost labour voters but to gain 123 seats he needs to attract conservatives. On his present left wing stance I cannot see that happening
However, lots to play for and an interesting few years ahead
It has to be IBM, doesn't it? Are there any other Western players?
In the old Met Office in Bracknell, there used to be two Cray Supercomputers, known colloquially as the Cray Twins. I believe the company is now part of HP.
Was that some time ago , I thought they had IBM HPC system currently.
Would have been early ‘90s. I lived close by, and a family friend who worked there gave me a tour one evening as a excitable young teenager.
OK so I am probably correct that they have an IBM HPC power setup nowadays.
Yes that is odd. Have things really moved forward that much in the last 4 years?
Moore’s Law would suggest that computers are now four times as powerful as they were four years ago.
You are probably reading this on a computer more powerful than the eighties vintage Cray supercomputers.
From memory, the 1990s Met Office Crays had 64MB RAM.
I just specced a workstation for a customer with 64GB RAM for $10k.
First one I worked on had 64K
Up until five years ago we still had a BBC B computer with 128K in one of the labs which we used with a lightgate. It was older than the then head of Physics...
Oddly enough, my sixth form college used a BBC computer for running a countdown clock during our A-Level physics practicals. That was in 2003-05.
It has to be IBM, doesn't it? Are there any other Western players?
In the old Met Office in Bracknell, there used to be two Cray Supercomputers, known colloquially as the Cray Twins. I believe the company is now part of HP.
Was that some time ago , I thought they had IBM HPC system currently.
Would have been early ‘90s. I lived close by, and a family friend who worked there gave me a tour one evening as a excitable young teenager.
OK so I am probably correct that they have an IBM HPC power setup nowadays.
Yes that is odd. Have things really moved forward that much in the last 4 years?
Moore’s Law would suggest that computers are now four times as powerful as they were four years ago....
Close enough... https://www.top500.org/lists/2019/11/ November 2015 Tianhe-2*, which means Milky Way-2, led the list with a performance of 33.86 petaflop/s (quadrillions of calculations per second or Pflop/s) on the Linpack benchmark. Keeping its hold on the No. 2 spot is Titan, a Cray XK7 system installed at DOE’s Oak Ridge National Laboratory. Titan, the top system in the United States and one of the most energy-efficient systems on the list, achieved 17.59 petaflop/s on the Linpack benchmark.
November 2019 Summit and Sierra remain in the top two spots. Both are IBM-built supercomputers employing Power9 CPUs and NVIDIA Tesla V100 GPUs. Oak Ridge National Laboratory’s Summit system holds top honors with an HPL result of 148.6 petaflops. The second-ranked Sierra system at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory comes in at 94.6 petaflops.
* Though note Tianhe-2 was already a couple of years old at this point.
So they are using GPUs built for the gaming market to build supercomputers?
It's all maths, and there are apparently similarities between the large scale parallel processing required for rendering graphics, and for modelling weather systems (or nuclear warhead detonations) etc.
Mr. Teacher, gaming can sometimes lead to useful innovations elsewhere. VR's main drive is videogames but the technology can be used in immersion therapy to try and reduce anxiety. Not to mention when I played cassette tape videogames I spent the 30 minute loading time reading a book.
There are a lot of clues about someone’s age given by their first memory of a computer. 😀
It has to be IBM, doesn't it? Are there any other Western players?
In the old Met Office in Bracknell, there used to be two Cray Supercomputers, known colloquially as the Cray Twins. I believe the company is now part of HP.
Was that some time ago , I thought they had IBM HPC system currently.
Would have been early ‘90s. I lived close by, and a family friend who worked there gave me a tour one evening as a excitable young teenager.
OK so I am probably correct that they have an IBM HPC power setup nowadays.
Yes that is odd. Have things really moved forward that much in the last 4 years?
Moore’s Law would suggest that computers are now four times as powerful as they were four years ago.
You are probably reading this on a computer more powerful than the eighties vintage Cray supercomputers.
From memory, the 1990s Met Office Crays had 64MB RAM.
I just specced a workstation for a customer with 64GB RAM for $10k.
First one I worked on had 64K
Up until five years ago we still had a BBC B computer with 128K in one of the labs which we used with a lightgate. It was older than the then head of Physics...
Ah, the days when computers just sat there and did what you told them, and if something didn't work you knew that you'd told it wrong. Now they have evolved to go wrong all by themselves.
It has to be IBM, doesn't it? Are there any other Western players?
In the old Met Office in Bracknell, there used to be two Cray Supercomputers, known colloquially as the Cray Twins. I believe the company is now part of HP.
Was that some time ago , I thought they had IBM HPC system currently.
Would have been early ‘90s. I lived close by, and a family friend who worked there gave me a tour one evening as a excitable young teenager.
OK so I am probably correct that they have an IBM HPC power setup nowadays.
Yes that is odd. Have things really moved forward that much in the last 4 years?
Moore’s Law would suggest that computers are now four times as powerful as they were four years ago.
You are probably reading this on a computer more powerful than the eighties vintage Cray supercomputers.
From memory, the 1990s Met Office Crays had 64MB RAM.
I just specced a workstation for a customer with 64GB RAM for $10k.
That's a lot of money for 64gb. My garage server has that and I think it cost just over a grand for the motherboard, 16 core cpu and 64gb of memory
Cost of these was $2M plus , so all were rented as too expensive to buy. The slowest System/360 model announced in 1964, the Model 30, could perform up to 34,500 instructions per second, with memory from 8 to 64 KB.[3] High performance models came later. The 1967 IBM System/360 Model 91 could execute up to 16.6 million instructions per second.[4] The larger 360 models could have up to 8 MB of main memory,[5] though that much main memory was unusual—a large installation might have as little as 256 KB of main storage, but 512 KB, 768 KB or 1024 KB was more common. Up to 8 megabytes of slower (8 microsecond) Large Capacity Storage (LCS) was also available for some models.
It’s worth remembering that the Tories got 13.96 million votes in December 2019. That’s nearly 3.5 million votes less than Leave got. Many Remain voters also voted Tory in 2017 and 2019. The Tories have a mandate, but Leave and Remain are not solid blocs.
Seems a done deal for Starmer. I do wonder if they'd be better with Nandy. But neither will be as bad as Corbyn.
That’s really the point. Starmer strikes me as dull and unimaginative but he is intelligent and capable of developing a coherent argument. It’s a massive step forward from where Labour has been since 2015.
I thought he would be really boring before I went to see him talk in Newcastle and he was actually pretty warm and charismatic...
Perhaps he’s better in person.
Maybe but I know a dull lawyer when I see one. On the plus side he is going to have several years to learn the job, refine the team and develop his pitch. Given where Labour is starting from he may need all the time he can get.
I wish him well. We need an opposition that offers a viable choice. Governments without one become self indulgent and more foolish than usual.
Lisa Nandy is clearly the best candidate.
But, it seems, she’ll come a distant third.
Nandy's political appeal is to Labour leavers but there is no guarantee that Labour leavers in the old red wall seats are going to feel enthusiastic about Brexit or Johnson in 5 years time. In fact I would put money on the fact that they won't.
Starmer is by far the better option for Labour, the bulk of the Labour/Lib Dem /Green voter pool have never been fans of Brexit and are unlikely to be so in 2024.
I have no doubt Starmer will win and a lot will depend on who joins his cabinet. RLB said yesterday she wants Corbyn to have a senior cabinet position and no doubt factions across the party will fight their corner
I do want a sensible opposition holding Boris to account but I do have reservations how Starmer can appeal away from the metropolitan areas which are so labour even now.
Remember, he has not only got to recover the lost labour voters but to gain 123 seats he needs to attract conservatives. On his present left wing stance I cannot see that happening
However, lots to play for and an interesting few years ahead
Starmer would be best for Labour to target Tory held marginals in London and the South and SNP seats in Scotland. He is also a less scary prospect for Tory Remainers in LD target seats than Corbyn.
Nandy would be best though for Labour to target Tory held seats in the North and Midlands and Wales.
Long Bailey would be best if Labour wants to target nowhere but gift the Tories more target seats
Morning all and I beg to differ with Mike's premis. I think from speaking to many of them that a great many Labour members want them to adhere to the 1970s "real Labour" principles and policies" and winning is not the priority. That is why Corbyn had such a fanatical following.
We want an electable leader to give us a good chance of winning but we do not want to return to timid centrist policies.
Starmer is currently relatively positively received by voters because they don't understand what an ardent lefty he actually is.
He's the definition of a hypocrite champagne socialist.
It is Remainers where Starmer polls best, Leavers are not fans
I suspect that Brexit is going to seem old news (whether good or bad) by 2024 and almost nobody will make their votes depend on what people did in the Brexit wars. There will be mood music about "closer working partnership with the EU" and potentially something about making it easier to travel and work abroad (with its inevitable corollary) but that'll be as far as it goes.
On the Tory side, they'll have their shiny new trade deals with everyone to boast of. Or not.
There will still be an argument about whether back to the single market with Starmer or stick to WTO+ terms or if we are lucky a Canada style FTA with Boris
It has to be IBM, doesn't it? Are there any other Western players?
In the old Met Office in Bracknell, there used to be two Cray Supercomputers, known colloquially as the Cray Twins. I believe the company is now part of HP.
Was that some time ago , I thought they had IBM HPC system currently.
Would have been early ‘90s. I lived close by, and a family friend who worked there gave me a tour one evening as a excitable young teenager.
OK so I am probably correct that they have an IBM HPC power setup nowadays.
Yes that is odd. Have things really moved forward that much in the last 4 years?
Moore’s Law would suggest that computers are now four times as powerful as they were four years ago.
You are probably reading this on a computer more powerful than the eighties vintage Cray supercomputers.
From memory, the 1990s Met Office Crays had 64MB RAM.
I just specced a workstation for a customer with 64GB RAM for $10k.
First one I worked on had 64K
Up until five years ago we still had a BBC B computer with 128K in one of the labs which we used with a lightgate. It was older than the then head of Physics...
Oddly enough, my sixth form college used a BBC computer for running a countdown clock during our A-Level physics practicals. That was in 2003-05.
As it wasn’t trying to run a graphical interface a simple timing program was not exactly taxing its capabilities. We did the same for the old Nuffield exam which had something silly like 11 minute intervals for some parts. The BBC was a pretty robust piece of kit and a lot of schools had them. They were also built with multiple ports so a lot of peripherals were sold for them.
I just specced a workstation for a customer with 64GB RAM for $10k.
Despite still coming off the production line in the late 90s the flight computer in the Sea Harrier had 128MB of RAM and we could only put ten waypoints in the nav system - which was actually only nine as one had to be the carrier. It also had, due to British Areospace's world class manufacturing technology, Bakelite switchgear which was left over from the Sea Fury.
It has to be IBM, doesn't it? Are there any other Western players?
In the old Met Office in Bracknell, there used to be two Cray Supercomputers, known colloquially as the Cray Twins. I believe the company is now part of HP.
Was that some time ago , I thought they had IBM HPC system currently.
Would have been early ‘90s. I lived close by, and a family friend who worked there gave me a tour one evening as a excitable young teenager.
OK so I am probably correct that they have an IBM HPC power setup nowadays.
It has to be IBM, doesn't it? Are there any other Western players?
In the old Met Office in Bracknell, there used to be two Cray Supercomputers, known colloquially as the Cray Twins. I believe the company is now part of HP.
Was that some time ago , I thought they had IBM HPC system currently.
Would have been early ‘90s. I lived close by, and a family friend who worked there gave me a tour one evening as a excitable young teenager.
OK so I am probably correct that they have an IBM HPC power setup nowadays.
Yes that is odd. Have things really moved forward that much in the last 4 years?
Moore’s Law would suggest that computers are now four times as powerful as they were four years ago.
You are probably reading this on a computer more powerful than the eighties vintage Cray supercomputers.
From memory, the 1990s Met Office Crays had 64MB RAM.
I just specced a workstation for a customer with 64GB RAM for $10k.
First one I worked on had 64K
Up until five years ago we still had a BBC B computer with 128K in one of the labs which we used with a lightgate. It was older than the then head of Physics...
Ah, the days when computers just sat there and did what you told them, and if something didn't work you knew that you'd told it wrong. Now they have evolved to go wrong all by themselves.
Nobody ever wrote anti-virus software for it: the operating system was in ROM so tuning it off was equivalent to a factory reset.
It’s worth remembering that the Tories got 13.96 million votes in December 2019. That’s nearly 3.5 million votes less than Leave got. Many Remain voters also voted Tory in 2017 and 2019. The Tories have a mandate, but Leave and Remain are not solid blocs.
Well, turnout was quite a bit lower in 2019 than in 2016, which probably accounts for some of the difference. Although clearly there's a drop off between 52% and the 45% Johnson got.
It’s worth remembering that the Tories got 13.96 million votes in December 2019. That’s nearly 3.5 million votes less than Leave got. Many Remain voters also voted Tory in 2017 and 2019. The Tories have a mandate, but Leave and Remain are not solid blocs.
Well, turnout was quite a bit lower in 2019 than in 2016, which probably accounts for some of the difference. Although clearly there's a drop off between 52% and the 45% Johnson got.
A few million Tory voters also backed Remain in 2016, especially in the South and Scotland.
It has to be IBM, doesn't it? Are there any other Western players?
In the old Met Office in Bracknell, there used to be two Cray Supercomputers, known colloquially as the Cray Twins. I believe the company is now part of HP.
Was that some time ago , I thought they had IBM HPC system currently.
Would have been early ‘90s. I lived close by, and a family friend who worked there gave me a tour one evening as a excitable young teenager.
OK so I am probably correct that they have an IBM HPC power setup nowadays.
Yes that is odd. Have things really moved forward that much in the last 4 years?
Moore’s Law would suggest that computers are now four times as powerful as they were four years ago.
You are probably reading this on a computer more powerful than the eighties vintage Cray supercomputers.
From memory, the 1990s Met Office Crays had 64MB RAM.
I just specced a workstation for a customer with 64GB RAM for $10k.
First one I worked on had 64K
Up until five years ago we still had a BBC B computer with 128K in one of the labs which we used with a lightgate. It was older than the then head of Physics...
Way to feel old! I learned to program BASIC on the BBC B back in the late ‘80s.
The National Museum of Computing at Bletchley Park still has a lab with a dozen of them, for all the 40-year-old 14-year-olds to play with.
Starmer is currently relatively positively received by voters because they don't understand what an ardent lefty he actually is.
He's the definition of a hypocrite champagne socialist.
It is Remainers where Starmer polls best, Leavers are not fans
I suspect that Brexit is going to seem old news (whether good or bad) by 2024 and almost nobody will make their votes depend on what people did in the Brexit wars. There will be mood music about "closer working partnership with the EU" and potentially something about making it easier to travel and work abroad (with its inevitable corollary) but that'll be as far as it goes.
On the Tory side, they'll have their shiny new trade deals with everyone to boast of. Or not.
There will still be an argument about whether back to the single market with Starmer or stick to WTO+ terms or if we are lucky a Canada style FTA with Boris
Maybe, maybe not.
If at the end of this Parliament 'all' we have to show trade deal wise is an 'Australian style' FTA with the EU it will be very easy to suggest EEA etc. OTOH if we have got a Canadian style deal with the EU plus deals with the USA and elsewhere then reopening old battles will be both more pointless and risk throwing away our new deals with the USA and elsewhere.
Starmer is currently relatively positively received by voters because they don't understand what an ardent lefty he actually is.
He's the definition of a hypocrite champagne socialist.
It is Remainers where Starmer polls best, Leavers are not fans
I suspect that Brexit is going to seem old news (whether good or bad) by 2024 and almost nobody will make their votes depend on what people did in the Brexit wars. There will be mood music about "closer working partnership with the EU" and potentially something about making it easier to travel and work abroad (with its inevitable corollary) but that'll be as far as it goes.
On the Tory side, they'll have their shiny new trade deals with everyone to boast of. Or not.
I agree Nick. Relations with the EU are going to be well down the political agenda come 2024 and as a consequence there will be plenty of scope for a Starmer-led Labour Party to re-engage with those who voted Leave nearly a decade earlier. In fact there will be scope even from the outset, because polling shows that the 2017 Labour Leave voters were also the most hostile to Corbyn generally as a leader, regardless of Brexit. Even free movement won't I think become the issue the Tories would like it to be, because any reciprocal arrangements will have to be negotiated bilaterally with individual EU states and that leaves plenty of scope for Labour to reassure voters by committing to be selective.
I just specced a workstation for a customer with 64GB RAM for $10k.
Despite still coming off the production line in the late 90s the flight computer in the Sea Harrier had 128MB of RAM and we could only put ten waypoints in the nav system - which was actually only nine as one had to be the carrier. It also had, due to British Areospace's world class manufacturing technology, Bakelite switchgear which was left over from the Sea Fury.
Ha, funnily enough, mission critical industrial computers are some way behind modern technology, and have a much longer life than your average PC. Boeing 777s are still laving the factory with 1990's era computers, because that's what they were designed and certified to use.
I cannot think of a candidate that better fits the caricature of Labour as a party for self righteous English metropolitans than Keir Starmer.
Unless Boris succeeds in rapidly gentrifying the crumbled red wall into a hoard of prosecco swigging vegans, I have no idea what conceivable path to power a Starmer led Labour would have.
And if he is pig headed enough to still be talking about the EU Single Market in 2024/5, I think he’ll do even worse than Corbyn.
Our school has two computers. A BBC and some other thing with a built in green screen.
Then I went to Uni (in 1985), and we faffed with computers for a couple of hours each week in the first term. I then never touched another computer for the rest of my course. This was an engineering degree. I did borrow my cousin's typewriter to submit one piece of work that had to be typed up rather than hand written. And I did use a calculator for hard sums.
I cannot think of a candidate that better fits the caricature of Labour as a party for self righteous English metropolitans than Keir Starmer.
Unless Boris succeeds in rapidly gentrifying the crumbled red wall into a hoard of prosecco swigging vegans, I have no idea what conceivable path to power a Starmer led Labour would have.
And if he is pig headed enough to still be talking about the EU Single Market in 2024/5, I think he’ll do even worse than Corbyn.
On what do you base this? You don't seem to have any facts there apart from your opinions. This guy was a former director of public prosecutions and you don't get to that position without being highly competent
Starmer is currently relatively positively received by voters because they don't understand what an ardent lefty he actually is.
He's the definition of a hypocrite champagne socialist.
It is Remainers where Starmer polls best, Leavers are not fans
I suspect that Brexit is going to seem old news (whether good or bad) by 2024 and almost nobody will make their votes depend on what people did in the Brexit wars. There will be mood music about "closer working partnership with the EU" and potentially something about making it easier to travel and work abroad (with its inevitable corollary) but that'll be as far as it goes.
On the Tory side, they'll have their shiny new trade deals with everyone to boast of. Or not.
I agree Nick. Relations with the EU are going to be well down the political agenda come 2024 and as a consequence there will be plenty of scope for a Starmer-led Labour Party to re-engage with those who voted Leave nearly a decade earlier. In fact there will be scope even from the outset, because polling shows that the 2017 Labour Leave voters were also the most hostile to Corbyn generally as a leader, regardless of Brexit. Even free movement won't I think become the issue the Tories would like it to be, because any reciprocal arrangements will have to be negotiated bilaterally with individual EU states and that leaves plenty of scope for Labour to reassure voters by committing to be selective.
By 2024 I doubt immigration will be an issue as the new points system will be in place.
Also I do not see how UK can do any bilateral deals as the EU always acts as one body
I cannot think of a candidate that better fits the caricature of Labour as a party for self righteous English metropolitans than Keir Starmer.
Unless Boris succeeds in rapidly gentrifying the crumbled red wall into a hoard of prosecco swigging vegans, I have no idea what conceivable path to power a Starmer led Labour would have.
And if he is pig headed enough to still be talking about the EU Single Market in 2024/5, I think he’ll do even worse than Corbyn.
But if we go for Andy Capp as leader we will lose our metro cognoscenti base - which is now more important.
I cannot think of a candidate that better fits the caricature of Labour as a party for self righteous English metropolitans than Keir Starmer.
Unless Boris succeeds in rapidly gentrifying the crumbled red wall into a hoard of prosecco swigging vegans, I have no idea what conceivable path to power a Starmer led Labour would have.
And if he is pig headed enough to still be talking about the EU Single Market in 2024/5, I think he’ll do even worse than Corbyn.
Our school has two computers. A BBC and some other thing with a built in green screen.
Then I went to Uni (in 1985), and we faffed with computers for a couple of hours each week in the first term. I then never touched another computer for the rest of my course. This was an engineering degree. I did borrow my cousin's typewriter to submit one piece of work that had to be typed up rather than hand written. And I did use a calculator for hard sums.
That second computer sounds like an Apple II to me.
I cannot think of a candidate that better fits the caricature of Labour as a party for self righteous English metropolitans than Keir Starmer.
Unless Boris succeeds in rapidly gentrifying the crumbled red wall into a hoard of prosecco swigging vegans, I have no idea what conceivable path to power a Starmer led Labour would have.
And if he is pig headed enough to still be talking about the EU Single Market in 2024/5, I think he’ll do even worse than Corbyn.
On what do you base this? You don't seem to have any facts there apart from your opinions. This guy was a former director of public prosecutions and you don't get to that position without being highly competent
I am not at all sure about that but maybe I am just cynical about lawyers
Starmer is currently relatively positively received by voters because they don't understand what an ardent lefty he actually is.
He's the definition of a hypocrite champagne socialist.
It is Remainers where Starmer polls best, Leavers are not fans
I suspect that Brexit is going to seem old news (whether good or bad) by 2024 and almost nobody will make their votes depend on what people did in the Brexit wars. There will be mood music about "closer working partnership with the EU" and potentially something about making it easier to travel and work abroad (with its inevitable corollary) but that'll be as far as it goes.
On the Tory side, they'll have their shiny new trade deals with everyone to boast of. Or not.
I agree Nick. Relations with the EU are going to be well down the political agenda come 2024 and as a consequence there will be plenty of scope for a Starmer-led Labour Party to re-engage with those who voted Leave nearly a decade earlier. In fact there will be scope even from the outset, because polling shows that the 2017 Labour Leave voters were also the most hostile to Corbyn generally as a leader, regardless of Brexit. Even free movement won't I think become the issue the Tories would like it to be, because any reciprocal arrangements will have to be negotiated bilaterally with individual EU states and that leaves plenty of scope for Labour to reassure voters by committing to be selective.
By 2024 I doubt immigration will be an issue as the new points system will be in place.
Also I do not see how UK can do any bilateral deals as the EU always acts as one body
No, while the UK was part of the EU, it retained control of its immigration policies towards non-EU states. As does France, I believe.
I cannot think of a candidate that better fits the caricature of Labour as a party for self righteous English metropolitans than Keir Starmer.
Unless Boris succeeds in rapidly gentrifying the crumbled red wall into a hoard of prosecco swigging vegans, I have no idea what conceivable path to power a Starmer led Labour would have.
And if he is pig headed enough to still be talking about the EU Single Market in 2024/5, I think he’ll do even worse than Corbyn.
On what do you base this? You don't seem to have any facts there apart from your opinions. This guy was a former director of public prosecutions and you don't get to that position without being highly competent
But highly competent at what? I’m highly competent in some areas but would be a complete disaster as leader of a ... well anything really.
I cannot think of a candidate that better fits the caricature of Labour as a party for self righteous English metropolitans than Keir Starmer.
Unless Boris succeeds in rapidly gentrifying the crumbled red wall into a hoard of prosecco swigging vegans, I have no idea what conceivable path to power a Starmer led Labour would have.
And if he is pig headed enough to still be talking about the EU Single Market in 2024/5, I think he’ll do even worse than Corbyn.
On what do you base this? You don't seem to have any facts there apart from your opinions. This guy was a former director of public prosecutions and you don't get to that position without being highly competent
I tend to think of politics as being almost entirely about opinions and little to do with facts or competence. I’ve long thought that people tend to vote based around their own sense of self identity and how they perceive the relative branding of what’s on offer.
And I’m just laying out how I think Starmer’s branding will be perceived. It will be easy to characterise him as a We Know Best politician, rather than a I’m On Your Side one.
I cannot think of a candidate that better fits the caricature of Labour as a party for self righteous English metropolitans than Keir Starmer.
Unless Boris succeeds in rapidly gentrifying the crumbled red wall into a hoard of prosecco swigging vegans, I have no idea what conceivable path to power a Starmer led Labour would have.
And if he is pig headed enough to still be talking about the EU Single Market in 2024/5, I think he’ll do even worse than Corbyn.
On what do you base this? You don't seem to have any facts there apart from your opinions. This guy was a former director of public prosecutions and you don't get to that position without being highly competent
His successor had a decent go at exploding that theory.
Starmer is currently relatively positively received by voters because they don't understand what an ardent lefty he actually is.
He's the definition of a hypocrite champagne socialist.
It is Remainers where Starmer polls best, Leavers are not fans
I suspect that Brexit is going to seem old news (whether good or bad) by 2024 and almost nobody will make their votes depend on what people did in the Brexit wars. There will be mood music about "closer working partnership with the EU" and potentially something about making it easier to travel and work abroad (with its inevitable corollary) but that'll be as far as it goes.
On the Tory side, they'll have their shiny new trade deals with everyone to boast of. Or not.
I agree Nick. Relations with the EU are going to be well down the political agenda come 2024 and as a consequence there will be plenty of scope for a Starmer-led Labour Party to re-engage with those who voted Leave nearly a decade earlier. In fact there will be scope even from the outset, because polling shows that the 2017 Labour Leave voters were also the most hostile to Corbyn generally as a leader, regardless of Brexit. Even free movement won't I think become the issue the Tories would like it to be, because any reciprocal arrangements will have to be negotiated bilaterally with individual EU states and that leaves plenty of scope for Labour to reassure voters by committing to be selective.
By 2024 I doubt immigration will be an issue as the new points system will be in place.
Also I do not see how UK can do any bilateral deals as the EU always acts as one body
No, while the UK was part of the EU, it retained control of its immigration policies towards non-EU states. As does France, I believe.
I may have expressed myself poorly. I meant that free movement between UK and EU member states would be subject to EU requirements but of course there is no restriction on control by the UK and other countries
I cannot think of a candidate that better fits the caricature of Labour as a party for self righteous English metropolitans than Keir Starmer.
Unless Boris succeeds in rapidly gentrifying the crumbled red wall into a hoard of prosecco swigging vegans, I have no idea what conceivable path to power a Starmer led Labour would have.
And if he is pig headed enough to still be talking about the EU Single Market in 2024/5, I think he’ll do even worse than Corbyn.
On what do you base this? You don't seem to have any facts there apart from your opinions. This guy was a former director of public prosecutions and you don't get to that position without being highly competent
I tend to think of politics as being almost entirely about opinions and little to do with facts or competence. I’ve long thought that people tend to vote based around their own sense of self identity and how they perceive the relative branding of what’s on offer.
And I’m just laying out how I think Starmer’s branding will be perceived. It will be easy to characterise him as a We Know Best politician, rather than a I’m On Your Side one.
I think that you are and you are suffering from a severe case of Wishful Thinking. And the more that Johnson fills number 10 with advisors who want to go back to eugenics and misogyny then he could be in a very precarious situation.
The BBC are making a documentary about Dominic Cummings, and according to the Daily Mail they are "planning to interview" Colin Perry who says that Cummings assaulted him 20 years ago by grabbing his lapels (further on in the article the reference is to grabbing his collar and tie) and pushing him against a wall. Allegedly that was when Perry had been representing the CBI on the radio, when he accused Cummings of wanting Britain not merely to retain sterling but to withdraw from the EU entirely. Perry's story is that Cummings responded with violence to such an outrageous allegation, describing it as a "lie". Cummings's story is that the men simply stumbled into each other. Both were 27. Bit of a non-story really. But the Daily Mail have really got it in for Cummings. Why?
No date has been set for the broadcast.
"Government sources" say Cummings has "discussed" stripping the CBI of its royal charter. Until I read that, I didn't know it had one. Does it matter much?
The games that are being played at the moment!
Certain parts of the media have really got it in for Dominic Cummings, most likely over his role in the EU referendum and his desire to seriously shake up the way government works. I say good luck to the guy.
Although people like Peter Hitchens, who's no fan of the EU, have also put their knives in.
I cannot think of a candidate that better fits the caricature of Labour as a party for self righteous English metropolitans than Keir Starmer.
Unless Boris succeeds in rapidly gentrifying the crumbled red wall into a hoard of prosecco swigging vegans, I have no idea what conceivable path to power a Starmer led Labour would have.
And if he is pig headed enough to still be talking about the EU Single Market in 2024/5, I think he’ll do even worse than Corbyn.
On what do you base this? You don't seem to have any facts there apart from your opinions. This guy was a former director of public prosecutions and you don't get to that position without being highly competent
I tend to think of politics as being almost entirely about opinions and little to do with facts or competence. I’ve long thought that people tend to vote based around their own sense of self identity and how they perceive the relative branding of what’s on offer.
And I’m just laying out how I think Starmer’s branding will be perceived. It will be easy to characterise him as a We Know Best politician, rather than a I’m On Your Side one.
SKS looks like a Tory (cf David Laws). As such he will attract initially plenty of Tories who like a decently cut suit and neat haircut (oh the irony). But listen to him, trawl through his political beliefs historically and I think many of those will be turned off. As we have seen with Jezza, an adherence to the left ineluctably leads to an antipathy towards the EU (tool of the military-industrial complex oppressing the masses, etc). So even if he comes out swinging on rejoin/re-align I don't think he picks up enough or indeed any of the Red Wall while there won't be enough Cons switchers to make it through.
And yes @Mike, of course he is super competent, no one is doubting that, just that I don't think his policies will play well to any of the demographics they need to play well to.
Seems a done deal for Starmer. I do wonder if they'd be better with Nandy. But neither will be as bad as Corbyn.
That’s really the point. Starmer strikes me as dull and unimaginative but he is intelligent and capable of developing a coherent argument. It’s a massive step forward from where Labour has been since 2015.
I thought he would be really boring before I went to see him talk in Newcastle and he was actually pretty warm and charismatic...
Perhaps he’s better in person.
Maybe but I know a dull lawyer when I see one. On the plus side he is going to have several years to learn the job, refine the team and develop his pitch. Given where Labour is starting from he may need all the time he can get.
I wish him well. We need an opposition that offers a viable choice. Governments without one become self indulgent and more foolish than usual.
After five years of constant conflict and confrontation under Cummings/Johnson dull and competent may be looking very appealing. What Nandy or Starmer will do is ensure that Labour provides a strong opposition. We have not had one for a long time and it will come at a time when almost all the talent that exists on the Tory side will be on the backbenches.
Apart from John Smith/Blair 92-97, when were Labour a strong opposition since 1979?
Our school has two computers. A BBC and some other thing with a built in green screen.
Then I went to Uni (in 1985), and we faffed with computers for a couple of hours each week in the first term. I then never touched another computer for the rest of my course. This was an engineering degree. I did borrow my cousin's typewriter to submit one piece of work that had to be typed up rather than hand written. And I did use a calculator for hard sums.
That second computer sounds like an Apple II to me.
Starmer is currently relatively positively received by voters because they don't understand what an ardent lefty he actually is.
He's the definition of a hypocrite champagne socialist.
It is Remainers where Starmer polls best, Leavers are not fans
I suspect that Brexit is going to seem old news (whether good or bad) by 2024 and almost nobody will make their votes depend on what people did in the Brexit wars. There will be mood music about "closer working partnership with the EU" and potentially something about making it easier to travel and work abroad (with its inevitable corollary) but that'll be as far as it goes.
On the Tory side, they'll have their shiny new trade deals with everyone to boast of. Or not.
I agree Nick. Relations with the EU are going to be well down the political agenda come 2024 and as a consequence there will be plenty of scope for a Starmer-led Labour Party to re-engage with those who voted Leave nearly a decade earlier. In fact there will be scope even from the outset, because polling shows that the 2017 Labour Leave voters were also the most hostile to Corbyn generally as a leader, regardless of Brexit. Even free movement won't I think become the issue the Tories would like it to be, because any reciprocal arrangements will have to be negotiated bilaterally with individual EU states and that leaves plenty of scope for Labour to reassure voters by committing to be selective.
By 2024 I doubt immigration will be an issue as the new points system will be in place.
Also I do not see how UK can do any bilateral deals as the EU always acts as one body
No, while the UK was part of the EU, it retained control of its immigration policies towards non-EU states. As does France, I believe.
I may have expressed myself poorly. I meant that free movement between UK and EU member states would be subject to EU requirements but of course there is no restriction on control by the UK and other countries
I think we may still be at cross purposes. What I mean is that France is at liberty to determine its own migration policies with non-EU states, rather than having to be bound by any blanket EU requirement, so with the UK becoming a non-EU state France will be able to negotiate bilaterally with the UK. I am, admittedly, disregarding any possible limitations imposed by the withdrawal agreement, so if there are some then please correct me.
I cannot think of a candidate that better fits the caricature of Labour as a party for self righteous English metropolitans than Keir Starmer.
Unless Boris succeeds in rapidly gentrifying the crumbled red wall into a hoard of prosecco swigging vegans, I have no idea what conceivable path to power a Starmer led Labour would have.
And if he is pig headed enough to still be talking about the EU Single Market in 2024/5, I think he’ll do even worse than Corbyn.
On what do you base this? You don't seem to have any facts there apart from your opinions. This guy was a former director of public prosecutions and you don't get to that position without being highly competent
His successor had a decent go at exploding that theory.
Indeed. Irrespective of the case in hand, it is an exceptionally weak argument to say "the guy was a former XXX and you don't get to that position without being highly competent", whatever XXX is.
There are abundant people in high positions who are extremely incompetent.
Starmer seems to me to be pretty average. I don't think he'll be great, but I don't think he will be a disaster.
I am not sure the temper of the times suits pretty average people.
And given a choice between former lawyers (Starmer or Long Bailey) and non-lawyers (Nandy), I'd always choose a non-lawyer.
I think Labour are making a mistake, but they have made worse ones before.
I cannot think of a candidate that better fits the caricature of Labour as a party for self righteous English metropolitans than Keir Starmer.
Unless Boris succeeds in rapidly gentrifying the crumbled red wall into a hoard of prosecco swigging vegans, I have no idea what conceivable path to power a Starmer led Labour would have.
And if he is pig headed enough to still be talking about the EU Single Market in 2024/5, I think he’ll do even worse than Corbyn.
On what do you base this? You don't seem to have any facts there apart from your opinions. This guy was a former director of public prosecutions and you don't get to that position without being highly competent
I tend to think of politics as being almost entirely about opinions and little to do with facts or competence. I’ve long thought that people tend to vote based around their own sense of self identity and how they perceive the relative branding of what’s on offer.
And I’m just laying out how I think Starmer’s branding will be perceived. It will be easy to characterise him as a We Know Best politician, rather than a I’m On Your Side one.
SKS looks like a Tory (cf David Laws). As such he will attract initially plenty of Tories who like a decently cut suit and neat haircut (oh the irony). But listen to him, trawl through his political beliefs historically and I think many of those will be turned off. As we have seen with Jezza, an adherence to the left ineluctably leads to an antipathy towards the EU (tool of the military-industrial complex oppressing the masses, etc). So even if he comes out swinging on rejoin/re-align I don't think he picks up enough Cons switchers to make it through.
The Red Wall, meanwhile, will hear his rejoin/re-align and remain put off.
And yes @Mike, of course he is super competent, no one is doubting that, just that I don't think his policies will play well to any of the demographics they need to play well to.
That depends on how pragmatic he is. My own belief is that he will look very credible when compared to Johnson. Johnson won because, despite flaws, he compared better than not-so-magic-Grandpa. I think come the next GE most Northern voters will not give a shit about Brexit, if they ever did really. They will be ready to return to Labour if it has a credible leader. The Tories will need to swing back toward the moderate centre, which IMO will be a good thing, and it will spell the death knell of Cummings and his brand of crass populism... well one can hope!
Seems a done deal for Starmer. I do wonder if they'd be better with Nandy. But neither will be as bad as Corbyn.
That’s really the point. Starmer strikes me as dull and unimaginative but he is intelligent and capable of developing a coherent argument. It’s a massive step forward from where Labour has been since 2015.
I thought he would be really boring before I went to see him talk in Newcastle and he was actually pretty warm and charismatic...
Perhaps he’s better in person.
Maybe but I know a dull lawyer when I see one. On the plus side he is going to have several years to learn the job, refine the team and develop his pitch. Given where Labour is starting from he may need all the time he can get.
I wish him well. We need an opposition that offers a viable choice. Governments without one become self indulgent and more foolish than usual.
After five years of constant conflict and confrontation under Cummings/Johnson dull and competent may be looking very appealing. What Nandy or Starmer will do is ensure that Labour provides a strong opposition. We have not had one for a long time and it will come at a time when almost all the talent that exists on the Tory side will be on the backbenches.
Apart from John Smith/Blair 92-97, when were Labour a strong opposition since 1979?
Labour were indeed a strong opposition under John Smith. John Smith was dull. And competent. And popular. And a barrister. See any parallels?
I cannot think of a candidate that better fits the caricature of Labour as a party for self righteous English metropolitans than Keir Starmer.
Unless Boris succeeds in rapidly gentrifying the crumbled red wall into a hoard of prosecco swigging vegans, I have no idea what conceivable path to power a Starmer led Labour would have.
And if he is pig headed enough to still be talking about the EU Single Market in 2024/5, I think he’ll do even worse than Corbyn.
On what do you base this? You don't seem to have any facts there apart from your opinions. This guy was a former director of public prosecutions and you don't get to that position without being highly competent
I tend to think of politics as being almost entirely about opinions and little to do with facts or competence. I’ve long thought that people tend to vote based around their own sense of self identity and how they perceive the relative branding of what’s on offer.
And I’m just laying out how I think Starmer’s branding will be perceived. It will be easy to characterise him as a We Know Best politician, rather than a I’m On Your Side one.
SKS looks like a Tory (cf David Laws). As such he will attract initially plenty of Tories who like a decently cut suit and neat haircut (oh the irony). But listen to him, trawl through his political beliefs historically and I think many of those will be turned off. As we have seen with Jezza, an adherence to the left ineluctably leads to an antipathy towards the EU (tool of the military-industrial complex oppressing the masses, etc). So even if he comes out swinging on rejoin/re-align I don't think he picks up enough Cons switchers to make it through.
The Red Wall, meanwhile, will hear his rejoin/re-align and remain put off.
And yes @Mike, of course he is super competent, no one is doubting that, just that I don't think his policies will play well to any of the demographics they need to play well to.
This is not about CON switchers but getting the maximum LAB vote out as well as squeezing the greens and the LDs. I remember much of the commentary after the 1992 General Election when Labour had suffered its fourth defeat and people were saying can the party ever win again. In the month afterwards ththe loonies on the Tory benches made John Major's position intolerable and created an ideal environment for Tony Blair to exploit. Remember the Tories are the party of brexit and Boris was the leader of the campaign. His big gamble is brexit will produce positive outcomes. If it doesn't he and his party are screwed
I cannot think of a candidate that better fits the caricature of Labour as a party for self righteous English metropolitans than Keir Starmer.
Unless Boris succeeds in rapidly gentrifying the crumbled red wall into a hoard of prosecco swigging vegans, I have no idea what conceivable path to power a Starmer led Labour would have.
And if he is pig headed enough to still be talking about the EU Single Market in 2024/5, I think he’ll do even worse than Corbyn.
On what do you base this? You don't seem to have any facts there apart from your opinions. This guy was a former director of public prosecutions and you don't get to that position without being highly competent
But highly competent at what? I’m highly competent in some areas but would be a complete disaster as leader of a ... well anything really.
Much greater evidence of competence at a range of serious jobs than our current clown of a PM, whose only claim to doing a proper job was being Mayor of London, which even Ken Livingston managed. Other than that he was just a smart arsed polemicist. Compare KS and Bozo on the real job comparison and it is a no brainer
I don’t believe you are allowed to top up in the NHS.
If you choose to supplement your healthcare the NHS can kick you out (ie it’s our way or the highway)
Foxy can advise better, but my understanding is that you can supplement if you're getting treatment for a different condition. What they don't like is if you flip-flop between NHS and private for the same treatment, potentially creating confusion.
I think you can still pay extra for a private room, too, perhaps other kinds of non-medical upgrades? I've fortunately never been seriously ill yet so I don't actually know.
It's more complex than that.
I am under a hospital diabetic clinic, about to transition to an insulin pump. But if I also want a Continuous Glucose Monitoring Device (as opposed to 6-7 finger prick tests a day) I have to provide that myself at a cost of approx £1500-2500 per year - unless I meet specific clinical criteria around loss of awareness of low blood sugars and having required help from someone else to resolve them (which is also roughly the criteria for losing your driving license). They happily work with the "top up".
For about 2 decades the only way to get an insulin pump in this country was to self-fund (again used to cost perhaps 2k), or get one via a research trial or come in having used one abroad (in which case the NHS would accept and support). Then the NHS would supply insulin, but the patient would have to supply cannulas and connecting tubes and batteries (change every 2-3 days, another £500 a year or so).
So yes there are circs where the working with top-ups is far more integrated - it is to do with accessing best in class treatments where the NHS does not yet authorise or thinks it has too little evidence.
I agree Nick. Relations with the EU are going to be well down the political agenda come 2024 and as a consequence there will be plenty of scope for a Starmer-led Labour Party to re-engage with those who voted Leave nearly a decade earlier. In fact there will be scope even from the outset, because polling shows that the 2017 Labour Leave voters were also the most hostile to Corbyn generally as a leader, regardless of Brexit. Even free movement won't I think become the issue the Tories would like it to be, because any reciprocal arrangements will have to be negotiated bilaterally with individual EU states and that leaves plenty of scope for Labour to reassure voters by committing to be selective.
By 2024 I doubt immigration will be an issue as the new points system will be in place.
Also I do not see how UK can do any bilateral deals as the EU always acts as one body
No, while the UK was part of the EU, it retained control of its immigration policies towards non-EU states. As does France, I believe.
I may have expressed myself poorly. I meant that free movement between UK and EU member states would be subject to EU requirements but of course there is no restriction on control by the UK and other countries
I think we may still be at cross purposes. What I mean is that France is at liberty to determine its own migration policies with non-EU states, rather than having to be bound by any blanket EU requirement, so with the UK becoming a non-EU state France will be able to negotiate bilaterally with the UK. I am, admittedly, disregarding any possible limitations imposed by the withdrawal agreement, so if there are some then please correct me.
Yes, one of the problems of the negotiation is going to be the areas where there is a common EU policy, but outside the EU it's not an EU competence and is left to the member States to regulate themselves.
Immigration policy is one such area, corporate taxation - specifically, withholding tax - is another, as @rcs1000 points out on a regular basis.
Seems a done deal for Starmer. I do wonder if they'd be better with Nandy. But neither will be as bad as Corbyn.
That’s really the point. Starmer strikes me as dull and unimaginative but he is intelligent and capable of developing a coherent argument. It’s a massive step forward from where Labour has been since 2015.
I thought he would be really boring before I went to see him talk in Newcastle and he was actually pretty warm and charismatic...
Perhaps he’s better in person.
Maybe but I know a dull lawyer when I see one. On the plus side he is going to have several years to learn the job, refine the team and develop his pitch. Given where Labour is starting from he may need all the time he can get.
I wish him well. We need an opposition that offers a viable choice. Governments without one become self indulgent and more foolish than usual.
After five years of constant conflict and confrontation under Cummings/Johnson dull and competent may be looking very appealing. What Nandy or Starmer will do is ensure that Labour provides a strong opposition. We have not had one for a long time and it will come at a time when almost all the talent that exists on the Tory side will be on the backbenches.
I will be utterly gobsmacked if Cummings is still there in 4 years time.
If it's true there are health concerns then he will have to go but barring that I expect he will be. I'd expect him to last about as long as Campbell did under Blair.
Is that the right comparison? From Joe Haines and Bernard Ingham through AC to Coulson, these were largely press or media officers. Cummings is not like them but also is not the same as Mandelson or Hilton because their main influence was in Opposition. Dom is perhaps like Nick and Fiona were for May.
I cannot think of a candidate that better fits the caricature of Labour as a party for self righteous English metropolitans than Keir Starmer.
Unless Boris succeeds in rapidly gentrifying the crumbled red wall into a hoard of prosecco swigging vegans, I have no idea what conceivable path to power a Starmer led Labour would have.
And if he is pig headed enough to still be talking about the EU Single Market in 2024/5, I think he’ll do even worse than Corbyn.
On what do you base this? You don't seem to have any facts there apart from your opinions. This guy was a former director of public prosecutions and you don't get to that position without being highly competent
His successor had a decent go at exploding that theory.
Indeed. Irrespective of the case in hand, it is an exceptionally weak argument to say "the guy was a former XXX and you don't get to that position without being highly competent", whatever XXX is.
There are abundant people in high positions who are extremely incompetent.
Starmer seems to me to be pretty average. I don't think he'll be great, but I don't think he will be a disaster.
I am not sure the temper of the times suits pretty average people.
And given a choice between former lawyers (Starmer or Long Bailey) and non-lawyers (Nandy), I'd always choose a non-lawyer.
I think Labour are making a mistake, but they have made worse ones before.
I think suggesting Long-Bailey is a lawyer of equal standing to Starmer is a little ridiculous. He was the DPP for goodness sake, one of the most senior legal positions in the land. I am not a Labour supporter. As a former Tory who is disgusted at the direction the Tory party has taken I want a good LoTO who can forensically take Johnson and Cummings apart.
A top level lawyer is exactly what is needed, rather than another lightweight like Nandy (let alone Long Bailey), who has achieved precisely nothing other than being a Labour MP (a fairly low bar)
Seems a done deal for Starmer. I do wonder if they'd be better with Nandy. But neither will be as bad as Corbyn.
That’s really the point. Starmer strikes me as dull and unimaginative but he is intelligent and capable of developing a coherent argument. It’s a massive step forward from where Labour has been since 2015.
I thought he would be really boring before I went to see him talk in Newcastle and he was actually pretty warm and charismatic...
Perhaps he’s better in person.
Maybe but I know a dull lawyer when I see one. On the plus side he is going to have several years to learn the job, refine the team and develop his pitch. Given where Labour is starting from he may need all the time he can get.
I wish him well. We need an opposition that offers a viable choice. Governments without one become self indulgent and more foolish than usual.
After five years of constant conflict and confrontation under Cummings/Johnson dull and competent may be looking very appealing. What Nandy or Starmer will do is ensure that Labour provides a strong opposition. We have not had one for a long time and it will come at a time when almost all the talent that exists on the Tory side will be on the backbenches.
I will be utterly gobsmacked if Cummings is still there in 4 years time.
If it's true there are health concerns then he will have to go but barring that I expect he will be. I'd expect him to last about as long as Campbell did under Blair.
Is that the right comparison? From Joe Haines and Bernard Ingham through AC to Coulson, these were largely press or media officers. Cummings is not like them but also is not the same as Mandelson or Hilton because their main influence was in Opposition. Dom is perhaps like Nick and Fiona were for May.
Of those I think only Campbell had an Order-in-Council specifically to allow him to give directions to Civil Servants.
Seems a done deal for Starmer. I do wonder if they'd be better with Nandy. But neither will be as bad as Corbyn.
That’s really the point. Starmer strikes me as dull and unimaginative but he is intelligent and capable of developing a coherent argument. It’s a massive step forward from where Labour has been since 2015.
I thought he would be really boring before I went to see him talk in Newcastle and he was actually pretty warm and charismatic...
Perhaps he’s better in person.
Maybe but I know a dull lawyer when I see one. On the plus side he is going to have several years to learn the job, refine the team and develop his pitch. Given where Labour is starting from he may need all the time he can get.
I wish him well. We need an opposition that offers a viable choice. Governments without one become self indulgent and more foolish than usual.
After five years of constant conflict and confrontation under Cummings/Johnson dull and competent may be looking very appealing. What Nandy or Starmer will do is ensure that Labour provides a strong opposition. We have not had one for a long time and it will come at a time when almost all the talent that exists on the Tory side will be on the backbenches.
Apart from John Smith/Blair 92-97, when were Labour a strong opposition since 1979?
Labour were indeed a strong opposition under John Smith. John Smith was dull. And competent. And popular. And a barrister. See any parallels?
On what do you base this? You don't seem to have any facts there apart from your opinions. This guy was a former director of public prosecutions and you don't get to that position without being highly competent
I tend to think of politics as being almost entirely about opinions and little to do with facts or competence. I’ve long thought that people tend to vote based around their own sense of self identity and how they perceive the relative branding of what’s on offer.
And I’m just laying out how I think Starmer’s branding will be perceived. It will be easy to characterise him as a We Know Best politician, rather than a I’m On Your Side one.
SKS looks like a Tory (cf David Laws). As such he will attract initially plenty of Tories who like a decently cut suit and neat haircut (oh the irony). But listen to him, trawl through his political beliefs historically and I think many of those will be turned off. As we have seen with Jezza, an adherence to the left ineluctably leads to an antipathy towards the EU (tool of the military-industrial complex oppressing the masses, etc). So even if he comes out swinging on rejoin/re-align I don't think he picks up enough Cons switchers to make it through.
The Red Wall, meanwhile, will hear his rejoin/re-align and remain put off.
And yes @Mike, of course he is super competent, no one is doubting that, just that I don't think his policies will play well to any of the demographics they need to play well to.
This is not about CON switchers but getting the maximum LAB vote out as well as squeezing the greens and the LDs. I remember much of the commentary after the 1992 General Election when Labour had suffered its fourth defeat and people were saying can the party ever win again. In the month afterwards ththe loonies on the Tory benches made John Major's position intolerable and created an ideal environment for Tony Blair to exploit. Remember the Tories are the party of brexit and Boris was the leader of the campaign. His big gamble is brexit will produce positive outcomes. If it doesn't he and his party are screwed
A rather desperate attempt to rewrite history there Mike.
It wasn't Bill Cash who put interest rates up 5% and pissed away billions trying to keep Sterling at a recession deepening exchange rate.
I cannot think of a candidate that better fits the caricature of Labour as a party for self righteous English metropolitans than Keir Starmer.
Unless Boris succeeds in rapidly gentrifying the crumbled red wall into a hoard of prosecco swigging vegans, I have no idea what conceivable path to power a Starmer led Labour would have.
And if he is pig headed enough to still be talking about the EU Single Market in 2024/5, I think he’ll do even worse than Corbyn.
On what do you base this? You don't seem to have any facts there apart from your opinions. This guy was a former director of public prosecutions and you don't get to that position without being highly competent
I tend to think of politics as being almost entirely about opinions and little to do with facts or competence. I’ve long thought that people tend to vote based around their own sense of self identity and how they perceive the relative branding of what’s on offer.
And I’m just laying out how I think Starmer’s branding will be perceived. It will be easy to characterise him as a We Know Best politician, rather than a I’m On Your Side one.
I think that you are and you are suffering from a severe case of Wishful Thinking. And the more that Johnson fills number 10 with advisors who want to go back to eugenics and misogyny then he could be in a very precarious situation.
I don’t wish for much. I’ll duck and dive and wheel and deal my way through no matters who’s running the shop. Just saying it as I see it.
Completely off topic but Patrick Hodge was signed in as Deputy President of the Supreme Court on Friday. We now have a situation where both the President and the Deputy President are Scots. I am certain that this has never happened in the Supreme Court before and I very much doubt it did in the House of Lords. In the ceremony Lord Wilson commented it would be for this team to protect the judiciary from any unwonted interference and to defend the rule of law. Interesting times but where are the distinguished jurists of the English bench?
I cannot think of a candidate that better fits the caricature of Labour as a party for self righteous English metropolitans than Keir Starmer.
Unless Boris succeeds in rapidly gentrifying the crumbled red wall into a hoard of prosecco swigging vegans, I have no idea what conceivable path to power a Starmer led Labour would have.
And if he is pig headed enough to still be talking about the EU Single Market in 2024/5, I think he’ll do even worse than Corbyn.
On what do you base this? You don't seem to have any facts there apart from your opinions. This guy was a former director of public prosecutions and you don't get to that position without being highly competent
I tend to think of politics as being almost entirely about opinions and little to do with facts or competence. I’ve long thought that people tend to vote based around their own sense of self identity and how they perceive the relative branding of what’s on offer.
And I’m just laying out how I think Starmer’s branding will be perceived. It will be easy to characterise him as a We Know Best politician, rather than a I’m On Your Side one.
I think that you are and you are suffering from a severe case of Wishful Thinking. And the more that Johnson fills number 10 with advisors who want to go back to eugenics and misogyny then he could be in a very precarious situation.
I don’t wish for much. I’ll duck and dive and wheel and deal my way through no matters who’s running the shop. Just saying it as I see it.
By the way I have some Impossible Burgers in my freezer and Prosecco in my fridge.
I cannot think of a candidate that better fits the caricature of Labour as a party for self righteous English metropolitans than Keir Starmer.
Unless Boris succeeds in rapidly gentrifying the crumbled red wall into a hoard of prosecco swigging vegans, I have no idea what conceivable path to power a Starmer led Labour would have.
And if he is pig headed enough to still be talking about the EU Single Market in 2024/5, I think he’ll do even worse than Corbyn.
competent
I tend
And I’m just laying out how I think Starmer’s branding will be perceived. It will be easy to characterise him as a We Know Best politician, rather than a I’m On Your Side one.
SKS looks like a Tory (cf David Laws). As such he will attract initially plenty of Tories who like a decently cut suit and neat haircut (oh the irony). But listen to him, trawl through his political beliefs historically and I think many of those will be turned off. As we have seen with Jezza, an adherence to the left ineluctably leads to an antipathy towards the EU (tool of the military-industrial complex oppressing the masses, etc). So even if he comes out swinging on rejoin/re-align I don't think he picks up enough Cons switchers to make it through.
The Red Wall, meanwhile, will hear his rejoin/re-align and remain put off.
And yes @Mike, of course he is super competent, no one is doubting that, just that I don't think his policies will play well to any of the demographics they need to play well to.
This is not about CON switchers but getting the maximum LAB vote out as well as squeezing the greens and the LDs. I remember much of the commentary after the 1992 General Election when Labour had suffered its fourth defeat and people were saying can the party ever win again. In the month afterwards ththe loonies on the Tory benches made John Major's position intolerable and created an ideal environment for Tony Blair to exploit. Remember the Tories are the party of brexit and Boris was the leader of the campaign. His big gamble is brexit will produce positive outcomes. If it doesn't he and his party are screwed
Nevertheless by 1992 Labour was clearly on the way back to credibility, such that during the campaign itself some expected they might win. Labour isn't close to that now. You are right however that we live in unusual times with a whole batch of recent elections that have broken some "never before..." circumstance or other. If Brexit genuinely and dramatically turns into a disaster then the Tories will surely be swept from office, regardless of whether or not such a swing is unprecedented.
On what do you base this? You don't seem to have any facts there apart from your opinions. This guy was a former director of public prosecutions and you don't get to that position without being highly competent
I tend to think of politics as being almost entirely about opinions and little to do with facts or competence. I’ve long thought that people tend to vote based around their own sense of self identity and how they perceive the relative branding of what’s on offer.
And I’m just laying out how I think Starmer’s branding will be perceived. It will be easy to characterise him as a We Know Best politician, rather than a I’m On Your Side one.
SKS looks like a Tory (cf David Laws). As such he will attract initially plenty of Tories who like a decently cut suit and neat haircut (oh the irony). But listen to him, trawl through his political beliefs historically and I think many of those will be turned off. As we have seen with Jezza, an adherence to the left ineluctably leads to an antipathy towards the EU (tool of the military-industrial complex oppressing the masses, etc). So even if he comes out swinging on rejoin/re-align I don't think he picks up enough Cons switchers to make it through.
The Red Wall, meanwhile, will hear his rejoin/re-align and remain put off.
And yes @Mike, of course he is super competent, no one is doubting that, just that I don't think his policies will play well to any of the demographics they need to play well to.
That depends on how pragmatic he is. My own belief is that he will look very credible when compared to Johnson. Johnson won because, despite flaws, he compared better than not-so-magic-Grandpa. I think come the next GE most Northern voters will not give a shit about Brexit, if they ever did really. They will be ready to return to Labour if it has a credible leader. The Tories will need to swing back toward the moderate centre, which IMO will be a good thing, and it will spell the death knell of Cummings and his brand of crass populism... well one can hope!
There are long term political and demographic trends which mean that many, not all, of the Conservative gains will not swing back to Labour.
Bassetlaw, Bolsover, Bury and Burnley all have their individualities.
I cannot think of a candidate that better fits the caricature of Labour as a party for self righteous English metropolitans than Keir Starmer.
Unless Boris succeeds in rapidly gentrifying the crumbled red wall into a hoard of prosecco swigging vegans, I have no idea what conceivable path to power a Starmer led Labour would have.
And if he is pig headed enough to still be talking about the EU Single Market in 2024/5, I think he’ll do even worse than Corbyn.
On what do you base this? You don't seem to have any facts there apart from your opinions. This guy was a former director of public prosecutions and you don't get to that position without being highly competent
But highly competent at what? I’m highly competent in some areas but would be a complete disaster as leader of a ... well anything really.
Much greater evidence of competence at a range of serious jobs than our current clown of a PM, whose only claim to doing a proper job was being Mayor of London, which even Ken Livingston managed. Other than that he was just a smart arsed polemicist. Compare KS and Bozo on the real job comparison and it is a no brainer
I cannot think of a candidate that better fits the caricature of Labour as a party for self righteous English metropolitans than Keir Starmer.
Unless Boris succeeds in rapidly gentrifying the crumbled red wall into a hoard of prosecco swigging vegans, I have no idea what conceivable path to power a Starmer led Labour would have.
And if he is pig headed enough to still be talking about the EU Single Market in 2024/5, I think he’ll do even worse than Corbyn.
On what do you base this? You don't seem to have any facts there apart from your opinions. This guy was a former director of public prosecutions and you don't get to that position without being highly competent
Mr. Teacher, gaming can sometimes lead to useful innovations elsewhere. VR's main drive is videogames but the technology can be used in immersion therapy to try and reduce anxiety. Not to mention when I played cassette tape videogames I spent the 30 minute loading time reading a book.
There are a lot of clues about someone’s age given by their first memory of a computer. 😀
That's a bit troubling. My first memory is when I was taken into my dad's work at Worthy Down outside Winchester where the payroll for all UK armed forces was done. It had reel to reel tapes and punch cards. It was the size of a gym hall and probably had less computing ability than my phone.
This is not about CON switchers but getting the maximum LAB vote out as well as squeezing the greens and the LDs. I remember much of the commentary after the 1992 General Election when Labour had suffered its fourth defeat and people were saying can the party ever win again. In the month afterwards ththe loonies on the Tory benches made John Major's position intolerable and created an ideal environment for Tony Blair to exploit. Remember the Tories are the party of brexit and Boris was the leader of the campaign. His big gamble is brexit will produce positive outcomes. If it doesn't he and his party are screwed
Agree (and with @Nigel_Foremain) - but the red wall is critical also and much as people might not have cared about it, for some reason, Brexit has become a point almost of honour. It is, reflecting the 2016 vote, the one thing that people feel they have some sort of control over. They showed this to the bien pensant remainers in 2016 and did so again with GE2019. No reason to think that they won't still be as bloody minded in future. Indeed the worse it gets for them under the Cons, the more they might hang on to that one element of power they hold in their hands.
Indeed. Irrespective of the case in hand, it is an exceptionally weak argument to say "the guy was a former XXX and you don't get to that position without being highly competent", whatever XXX is.
There are abundant people in high positions who are extremely incompetent.
Starmer seems to me to be pretty average. I don't think he'll be great, but I don't think he will be a disaster.
I am not sure the temper of the times suits pretty average people.
And given a choice between former lawyers (Starmer or Long Bailey) and non-lawyers (Nandy), I'd always choose a non-lawyer.
I think Labour are making a mistake, but they have made worse ones before.
I think suggesting Long-Bailey is a lawyer of equal standing to Starmer is a little ridiculous. He was the DPP for goodness sake, one of the most senior legal positions in the land. I am not a Labour supporter. As a former Tory who is disgusted at the direction the Tory party has taken I want a good LoTO who can forensically take Johnson and Cummings apart.
A top level lawyer is exactly what is needed, rather than another lightweight like Nandy (let alone Long Bailey), who has achieved precisely nothing other than being a Labour MP (a fairly low bar)
Devil's advocate. The case for RLB is that she is the only one of the three candidates with any trace of charisma, who when she starts to speak seems like she might be about to say something interesting. (Even if usually the listener is disappointed.)
RLB also seems to have given some thought as to why Labour lost, even if she is probably wrong.
The case for Starmer is the case for Michael Howard after Hague and IDS. He is a serious figure; if a Tory, the papers would say he has bottom. As a barrister, he should be able to dissect Boris at PMQs. Against that, he is an oddly unattractive speaker, though that can be addressed with coaching (à la Thatcher).
Starmer is running an oddly Boris-like campaign and saying nothing. It worked for Boris.
Indeed. Irrespective of the case in hand, it is an exceptionally weak argument to say "the guy was a former XXX and you don't get to that position without being highly competent", whatever XXX is.
There are abundant people in high positions who are extremely incompetent.
Starmer seems to me to be pretty average. I don't think he'll be great, but I don't think he will be a disaster.
I am not sure the temper of the times suits pretty average people.
And given a choice between former lawyers (Starmer or Long Bailey) and non-lawyers (Nandy), I'd always choose a non-lawyer.
I think Labour are making a mistake, but they have made worse ones before.
I think suggesting Long-Bailey is a lawyer of equal standing to Starmer is a little ridiculous. He was the DPP for goodness sake, one of the most senior legal positions in the land. I am not a Labour supporter. As a former Tory who is disgusted at the direction the Tory party has taken I want a good LoTO who can forensically take Johnson and Cummings apart.
A top level lawyer is exactly what is needed, rather than another lightweight like Nandy (let alone Long Bailey), who has achieved precisely nothing other than being a Labour MP (a fairly low bar)
Devil's advocate. The case for RLB is that she is the only one of the three candidates with any trace of charisma, who when she starts to speak seems like she might say something interesting. (Even if usually the listener is disappointed.)
RLB also seems to have given some thought as to why Labour lost, even if she is probably wrong.
The case for Starmer is the case for Michael Howard after Hague and IDS. He is a serious figure; if a Tory, the papers would say he has bottom. As a barrister, he should be able to dissect Boris at PMQs. Against that, he is an oddly unattractive speaker, though that can be addressed with coaching (à la Thatcher).
Starmer is running an oddly Boris-like campaign and saying nothing. It worked for Boris.
RLB? Charisma? She is as much of a lightweight as Jo Swinson!
Indeed. Irrespective of the case in hand, it is an exceptionally weak argument to say "the guy was a former XXX and you don't get to that position without being highly competent", whatever XXX is.
There are abundant people in high positions who are extremely incompetent.
Starmer seems to me to be pretty average. I don't think he'll be great, but I don't think he will be a disaster.
I am not sure the temper of the times suits pretty average people.
And given a choice between former lawyers (Starmer or Long Bailey) and non-lawyers (Nandy), I'd always choose a non-lawyer.
I think Labour are making a mistake, but they have made worse ones before.
I think suggesting Long-Bailey is a lawyer of equal standing to Starmer is a little ridiculous. He was the DPP for goodness sake, one of the most senior legal positions in the land. I am not a Labour supporter. As a former Tory who is disgusted at the direction the Tory party has taken I want a good LoTO who can forensically take Johnson and Cummings apart.
A top level lawyer is exactly what is needed, rather than another lightweight like Nandy (let alone Long Bailey), who has achieved precisely nothing other than being a Labour MP (a fairly low bar)
Devil's advocate. The case for RLB is that she is the only one of the three candidates with any trace of charisma, who when she starts to speak seems like she might say something interesting. (Even if usually the listener is disappointed.)
RLB also seems to have given some thought as to why Labour lost, even if she is probably wrong.
The case for Starmer is the case for Michael Howard after Hague and IDS. He is a serious figure; if a Tory, the papers would say he has bottom. As a barrister, he should be able to dissect Boris at PMQs. Against that, he is an oddly unattractive speaker, though that can be addressed with coaching (à la Thatcher).
Starmer is running an oddly Boris-like campaign and saying nothing. It worked for Boris.
RLB? Charisma? She is as much of a lightweight as Jo Swinson!
You are conflating two different things. Starmer is a serious figure, with bottom. RLB is the more charismatic. Neither has both, which is a shame.
Comments
I just specced a workstation for a customer with 64GB RAM for $10k.
Edit: your phone is more powerful than a Cray 2, let alone your laptop.
You are right that the switching did cause a little confusion, but not of any significance (the biggest hassle was dealing with the insurance company regarding the NHS operation). But it can be done.
https://www.top500.org/lists/2019/11/
November 2015
Tianhe-2*, which means Milky Way-2, led the list with a performance of 33.86 petaflop/s (quadrillions of calculations per second or Pflop/s) on the Linpack benchmark. Keeping its hold on the No. 2 spot is Titan, a Cray XK7 system installed at DOE’s Oak Ridge National Laboratory. Titan, the top system in the United States and one of the most energy-efficient systems on the list, achieved 17.59 petaflop/s on the Linpack benchmark.
November 2019
Summit and Sierra remain in the top two spots. Both are IBM-built supercomputers employing Power9 CPUs and NVIDIA Tesla V100 GPUs. Oak Ridge National Laboratory’s Summit system holds top honors with an HPL result of 148.6 petaflops. The second-ranked Sierra system at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory comes in at 94.6 petaflops.
* Though note Tianhe-2 was already a couple of years old at this point.
On the Tory side, they'll have their shiny new trade deals with everyone to boast of. Or not.
Starmer is by far the better option for Labour, the bulk of the Labour/Lib Dem /Green voter pool have never been fans of Brexit and are unlikely to be so in 2024.
Either way, polling people as to which is more likely to become PM isn't particularly enlightening when the reality is that the next Labour leader's job is probably simply caretaker on the road to recovery, cf Kinnock.
I do want a sensible opposition holding Boris to account but I do have reservations how Starmer can appeal away from the metropolitan areas which are so labour even now.
Remember, he has not only got to recover the lost labour voters but to gain 123 seats he needs to attract conservatives. On his present left wing stance I cannot see that happening
However, lots to play for and an interesting few years ahead
The slowest System/360 model announced in 1964, the Model 30, could perform up to 34,500 instructions per second, with memory from 8 to 64 KB.[3] High performance models came later. The 1967 IBM System/360 Model 91 could execute up to 16.6 million instructions per second.[4] The larger 360 models could have up to 8 MB of main memory,[5] though that much main memory was unusual—a large installation might have as little as 256 KB of main storage, but 512 KB, 768 KB or 1024 KB was more common. Up to 8 megabytes of slower (8 microsecond) Large Capacity Storage (LCS) was also available for some models.
Nandy would be best though for Labour to target Tory held seats in the North and Midlands and Wales.
Long Bailey would be best if Labour wants to target nowhere but gift the Tories more target seats
That was the Royal "we" there.
The BBC was a pretty robust piece of kit and a lot of schools had them. They were also built with multiple ports so a lot of peripherals were sold for them.
The National Museum of Computing at Bletchley Park still has a lab with a dozen of them, for all the 40-year-old 14-year-olds to play with.
If at the end of this Parliament 'all' we have to show trade deal wise is an 'Australian style' FTA with the EU it will be very easy to suggest EEA etc. OTOH if we have got a Canadian style deal with the EU plus deals with the USA and elsewhere then reopening old battles will be both more pointless and risk throwing away our new deals with the USA and elsewhere.
Unless Boris succeeds in rapidly gentrifying the crumbled red wall into a hoard of prosecco swigging vegans, I have no idea what conceivable path to power a Starmer led Labour would have.
And if he is pig headed enough to still be talking about the EU Single Market in 2024/5, I think he’ll do even worse than Corbyn.
They're awesome!
Then I went to Uni (in 1985), and we faffed with computers for a couple of hours each week in the first term. I then never touched another computer for the rest of my course. This was an engineering degree. I did borrow my cousin's typewriter to submit one piece of work that had to be typed up rather than hand written. And I did use a calculator for hard sums.
Don't blog much now, but wrote this a little while ago: http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.com/2018/08/the-curta-mechanical-calculator.html?m=0
Also I do not see how UK can do any bilateral deals as the EU always acts as one body
So it's tricky.
https://metro.co.uk/2015/12/31/which-bottles-of-bubbly-are-vegan-and-which-have-animal-bits-in-them-5592283/
I was going to get one a few years back as a desk ornament / conversation starter, until I realised how much they cost!
One mad American, Marcus Wu, makes a 3D printed model, at three times the usual scale - and it works!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9uRckJLqLk
And I’m just laying out how I think Starmer’s branding will be perceived. It will be easy to characterise him as a We Know Best politician, rather than a I’m On Your Side one.
I try to watch the films Hitchens recommends. Queen & Slim is the latest.
And yes @Mike, of course he is super competent, no one is doubting that, just that I don't think his policies will play well to any of the demographics they need to play well to.
There are abundant people in high positions who are extremely incompetent.
Starmer seems to me to be pretty average. I don't think he'll be great, but I don't think he will be a disaster.
I am not sure the temper of the times suits pretty average people.
And given a choice between former lawyers (Starmer or Long Bailey) and non-lawyers (Nandy), I'd always choose a non-lawyer.
I think Labour are making a mistake, but they have made worse ones before.
I am under a hospital diabetic clinic, about to transition to an insulin pump. But if I also want a Continuous Glucose Monitoring Device (as opposed to 6-7 finger prick tests a day) I have to provide that myself at a cost of approx £1500-2500 per year - unless I meet specific clinical criteria around loss of awareness of low blood sugars and having required help from someone else to resolve them (which is also roughly the criteria for losing your driving license). They happily work with the "top up".
For about 2 decades the only way to get an insulin pump in this country was to self-fund (again used to cost perhaps 2k), or get one via a research trial or come in having used one abroad (in which case the NHS would accept and support). Then the NHS would supply insulin, but the patient would have to supply cannulas and connecting tubes and batteries (change every 2-3 days, another £500 a year or so).
So yes there are circs where the working with top-ups is far more integrated - it is to do with accessing best in class treatments where the NHS does not yet authorise or thinks it has too little evidence.
Immigration policy is one such area, corporate taxation - specifically, withholding tax - is another, as @rcs1000 points out on a regular basis.
A top level lawyer is exactly what is needed, rather than another lightweight like Nandy (let alone Long Bailey), who has achieved precisely nothing other than being a Labour MP (a fairly low bar)
I remember a rumpus at the time.
It wasn't Bill Cash who put interest rates up 5% and pissed away billions trying to keep Sterling at a recession deepening exchange rate.
Bassetlaw, Bolsover, Bury and Burnley all have their individualities.
And of course, pressure means nothing if you can't convert it.
I'm old :-(
RLB also seems to have given some thought as to why Labour lost, even if she is probably wrong.
The case for Starmer is the case for Michael Howard after Hague and IDS. He is a serious figure; if a Tory, the papers would say he has bottom. As a barrister, he should be able to dissect Boris at PMQs. Against that, he is an oddly unattractive speaker, though that can be addressed with coaching (à la Thatcher).
Starmer is running an oddly Boris-like campaign and saying nothing. It worked for Boris.
Are you now suggesting that was wrong and they were, in fact, prevented from doing so?
RLB and Lisa Nandy can hardly object given the stupid pledges they've adopted on this issue.