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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,167
    John McDonnell says he will leave the Shadow Cabinet whoever becomes the next Labour leader and will seek a new international role working with Europe and what he hopes will be a Sanders administration in the US
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    HYUFD said:

    Starmer commits to keep Labour's plan to raise tax on those earning over £80,000 a year.

    Nandy says she will replace the Order of the British Empire with an Order of British Excellence
    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/starmer-shifts-left-in-attempt-to-crowd-long-bailey-out-of-labour-contest/ar-BBZyXiF?ocid=spartandhp

    Lisa Nandy is right on the OBE
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,167
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Raab on Marr says if it does a trade deal with the EU it expects to be treated in the same manner as South Korea, Canada and Japan were and not with full alignment with EU rules required

    Which is completely fair.

    But initial murmurings from the EU side are that they see the trade discussions as part of the political Brexit process, rather than the much less political dimension usually given to trade talks.

    A common question to be asked over the coming months is going to be 'So, what did Canada and Japan agree to in this area?"

    I still see almost no substantive talks happening before the end of June, when the EU side will be expecting the UK to extend the talks deadline. It won't be until we make it clear there's no extending, that the talks will begin in earnest.
    Quite likely and I agree we must concede no further alignment than Canada and Japan had to for their EU trade deals
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,050
    edited February 2020
    HYUFD said:


    Nandy says she will replace the Order of the British Empire with an Order of British Excellence
    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/starmer-shifts-left-in-attempt-to-crowd-long-bailey-out-of-labour-contest/ar-BBZyXiF?ocid=spartandhp

    Eh, an oddly gimmicky announcement to make at this time, but whatever.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144

    HYUFD said:

    Starmer commits to keep Labour's plan to raise tax on those earning over £80,000 a year.

    Nandy says she will replace the Order of the British Empire with an Order of British Excellence
    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/starmer-shifts-left-in-attempt-to-crowd-long-bailey-out-of-labour-contest/ar-BBZyXiF?ocid=spartandhp

    Lisa Nandy is right on the OBE
    Make all of the gongs much, much harder to achieve. Not just timeservers for 40 years.

    There also needs to be a new recognition that gets awarded for local achievement. Something with letters before/after your name that shows this is a person acknowledged for going above and beyond for their community. A genuine mark of respect.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,088
    HYUFD said:

    Raab on Marr says if it does a trade deal with the EU it expects to be treated in the same manner as South Korea, Canada and Japan were and not with full alignment with EU rules required

    LOL, deluded halfwits.
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    Mr. G, why do you think it's unreasonable for equal treatment with Canada, South Korea, or Japan?
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,088

    HYUFD said:

    Starmer commits to keep Labour's plan to raise tax on those earning over £80,000 a year.

    Nandy says she will replace the Order of the British Empire with an Order of British Excellence
    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/starmer-shifts-left-in-attempt-to-crowd-long-bailey-out-of-labour-contest/ar-BBZyXiF?ocid=spartandhp

    Lisa Nandy is right on the OBE
    Make all of the gongs much, much harder to achieve. Not just timeservers for 40 years.

    There also needs to be a new recognition that gets awarded for local achievement. Something with letters before/after your name that shows this is a person acknowledged for going above and beyond for their community. A genuine mark of respect.
    Never happen, they need their bribes too much.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:


    That poll has now been leaked anyway and if the leaked poll turns out to be close to the actual result the only 'dodgy practices' will look like pressure from the Democratic establishment not sampling error

    Some (generally unreliable) people have posted something they claim is a leak of the poll, I don't think we have evidence that it's genuine at this point?
    The leak was by a journalist with a blue tick and does not look too dissimilar to the last DMR poll just with Sanders and Warren expanding the gap over Buttigieg and Biden

    https://twitter.com/Cernovich/status/1223804822891032576?s=20
    Cernovich is a journalist in the same way I am.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941

    Formula E race called off due to Coronavirus:
    https://twitter.com/LukeSmithF1/status/1223903018652983296

    F1 race is scheduled for 19th April, only four weeks later. Minus a week for build-up that FE doesn't really have.

    I reckon they're no more than a week away from calling it off, given the much bigger nature of the F1 event compared to FE.

    Vietnam Grand Prix, scheduled for 5th April, must also be under some threat, especially given that it's a street race around the middle of Hanoi.

    Bad news for those with bets on how many wins a certain driver might get this year.
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    Mr. Sandpit, not if you're on the under side of that bet.

    I still think Hamilton could get into double digits, though.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited February 2020
    Even utterly dishonest charlatans can get a blue tick.

    A blue tick is a mark of note ability not honesty.

    If Alex Jones had posted the poll 'results' would you have trusted them?
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,369

    HYUFD said:

    Starmer commits to keep Labour's plan to raise tax on those earning over £80,000 a year.

    Nandy says she will replace the Order of the British Empire with an Order of British Excellence
    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/starmer-shifts-left-in-attempt-to-crowd-long-bailey-out-of-labour-contest/ar-BBZyXiF?ocid=spartandhp

    Lisa Nandy is right on the OBE
    Make all of the gongs much, much harder to achieve. Not just timeservers for 40 years.

    There also needs to be a new recognition that gets awarded for local achievement. Something with letters before/after your name that shows this is a person acknowledged for going above and beyond for their community. A genuine mark of respect.
    Lisa's idea is a harmless suggestion, but I doubt if it will shift many votes. I want to know what she'll do on more substantive issues, please.

    Local government honours (and other awards for local excellence) are quite common - perhaps you're right that a distinctive award would be even better, but there's certainly a tradition that respected local people can get nominated. It's a bit random because a group of local people need to get together to propose you and make a convincing case, but that's I suppose not a bad test of whether you've really made a positive mark on the community.
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    HYUFD said:

    Starmer commits to keep Labour's plan to raise tax on those earning over £80,000 a year.

    Nandy says she will replace the Order of the British Empire with an Order of British Excellence
    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/starmer-shifts-left-in-attempt-to-crowd-long-bailey-out-of-labour-contest/ar-BBZyXiF?ocid=spartandhp

    Lisa Nandy is right on the OBE
    No she isn't.

    I love the Empire.
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    nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Alignment is more important for the EU than in say Canada and Japan because of a simple geographical fact .

    But it’s pretty easy for the government to align in terms of environmental standards etc as they keep saying all that and workers rights aren’t going to be cut unless of course they were lying !

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    HYUFD said:

    Raab says Tusk was 'irresponsible' to say an Independent Scotland could join the EU and the SNP must honour and accept the result of the 2014 referendum and focus on domestic policy

    I have no sympathy for Donald Tusk.

    None.

    He has his fans on here, but he's just as much of an EU ideologue as Selmayr or Verhofstadht, and even less diplomatic.
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    Mr. 67, if we 'aligned' on maternity leave it'd mean a reduction. The idea that EU standards are the best and that we wouldn't have workers rights or protections without the EU doesn't survive contact with reality.

    Also, the notion that proximity permits influence cuts both ways. Will the Irish have to agree to meet British standards, with any disputes settled solely by a British court?

    Being adjacent to something doesn't give you a right to it, or to exert influence over it.

    "We love the British but we won't give you equality with Canada, South Korea, or Japan" is not consistent. Or honest.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,832
    Sandpit said:

    China effectively confirming the rumours that doctors have been cremating victims, potentially without adding them to the official list.

    ttps://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/1223774570043232256

    I am pretty sure that the scale of this outbreak is considerably worse than is being admitted to by the Chinese authorities. It’s probably hundreds of thousands of cases - and thousands of deaths - at this point.

    If it’s correct that patients exhibit no symptoms whist contagious for up to two weeks, the worst could be still to come.
    I think the fatality numbers are probably fairly accurate (currently 304, up 45 on on the day before). The Chinese seem to have been pretty open since they first notified the World Health Organisation on 31st Dec.

    The numbers of confirmed cases may be less accurate, as limited by testing capacity and degree of diagnostic suspicion.

    It does seem as if the travel bans, limiting of public events etc seem to be slowing the rise somewhat. Incineration of bodies on site does sound draconian, but I can understand the reasoning from a disease control perspective.

    The original publication in the Lancet has quite a lot of detail.

    https://c212.net/c/link/?t=0&l=en&o=2704417-1&h=3841399911&u=https://www.thelancet.com/action/showPdf?pii=S0140-6736%2820%2930183-5&a=Clinical+features+of+patients+infected+with+2019+novel+coronavirus+in+Wuhan,+China

    It does seem as if the severely affected cases progress over a matter of days to peak severity after about a week. Secondary bacterial infection doesn't so much appear to be the worst factor so much as the "Cytokine Storm" effect.
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    nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502

    HYUFD said:

    Raab says Tusk was 'irresponsible' to say an Independent Scotland could join the EU and the SNP must honour and accept the result of the 2014 referendum and focus on domestic policy

    I have no sympathy for Donald Tusk.

    None.

    He has his fans on here, but he's just as much of an EU ideologue as Selmayr or Verhofstadht, and even less diplomatic.
    What exactly did he say that’s so offended you . I saw the interview and couldn’t find anything that was controversial .
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,369

    HYUFD said:

    Starmer commits to keep Labour's plan to raise tax on those earning over £80,000 a year.

    Nandy says she will replace the Order of the British Empire with an Order of British Excellence
    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/starmer-shifts-left-in-attempt-to-crowd-long-bailey-out-of-labour-contest/ar-BBZyXiF?ocid=spartandhp

    Lisa Nandy is right on the OBE
    No she isn't.

    I love the Empire.
    Nothing wrong with that, but you'll perhaps accept that not eveyone feels the same way? It'd be better to have a term that everyone can identify with. In the unlikely event that I did something wonderful and was made a Commander of the British Empire I'd be more bemused than thrilled, and I expect I'm not alone in that. A Commander of British Excellence would be quite nice!

    The need to maintain tradition while subtly updating it has always been a British strength - e.g. Charles saying that he wants to be a Defender of Faiths rather than a Defender of the Faith strikes just the right note, reflecting reality while nonetheless preserving a natural link to tradition.
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    HYUFD said:

    Starmer commits to keep Labour's plan to raise tax on those earning over £80,000 a year.

    Nandy says she will replace the Order of the British Empire with an Order of British Excellence
    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/starmer-shifts-left-in-attempt-to-crowd-long-bailey-out-of-labour-contest/ar-BBZyXiF?ocid=spartandhp

    Lisa Nandy is right on the OBE
    No she isn't.

    I love the Empire.
    Nothing wrong with that, but you'll perhaps accept that not eveyone feels the same way? It'd be better to have a term that everyone can identify with. In the unlikely event that I did something wonderful and was made a Commander of the British Empire I'd be more bemused than thrilled, and I expect I'm not alone in that. A Commander of British Excellence would be quite nice!

    The need to maintain tradition while subtly updating it has always been a British strength - e.g. Charles saying that he wants to be a Defender of Faiths rather than a Defender of the Faith strikes just the right note, reflecting reality while nonetheless preserving a natural link to tradition.
    The Empire never dies! I don't see it as anything to be ashamed of and would like to see it continue.
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    nico67 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Raab says Tusk was 'irresponsible' to say an Independent Scotland could join the EU and the SNP must honour and accept the result of the 2014 referendum and focus on domestic policy

    I have no sympathy for Donald Tusk.

    None.

    He has his fans on here, but he's just as much of an EU ideologue as Selmayr or Verhofstadht, and even less diplomatic.
    What exactly did he say that’s so offended you . I saw the interview and couldn’t find anything that was controversial .
    He's been trying to whip the Scottish up into a frenzy today (see BBC news) and in recent weeks he gave an insulting interview about his time in the UK. It all derives from his anger at Brexit, and desire to give us one back.

    He's a real piece of work.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    ike56 said:

    Long time reader (since before the 2005 GE), but first time poster. Make of it what you will, but the DMR poll has supposedly been leaked. May not be reliable numbers even if were not spiked, but the Biden cratering is worth noting to see how it pans out Monday night:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Cernovich/status/1223804822891032576?s=19

    Sanders: 22%

    Warren: 18%

    Buttigieg: 16%

    Biden: 13%

    Too many undecideds, methinks, although if the also-rans add up 10-15% total, perhaps not. I’ve no dog in this contest or the GE, but I would find such a result for Biden quite comical, he really is running on nothing but his alleged “electability.”

    Context for that tweet in case anyone is missing is: Cernovich is an alt-right propagandist and dodgy skin cream salesman.
    Better than being a dodgy propagandist and alternative skin cream salesman?
    Cernovich is both, that's the power of the gorilla mindset
    What is it with dodgy medicos running fake news websites?
    That’s special, even for the Daily Mail

    “Anonymous left wing blogger, Steven Walker, 52, who lives in a multi-million pound house in Lower Tadfield”... is not really very anonymous
    Lower Tadfield? I didn’t see that. Is it a Good Omen or is he just one of the Four Horsemen?
    I may have made up Lower Tadfield as it seemed as good as any other name for a pastiche of the daily mail
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Surely they’ve spent tens of thousands on this poll, and now want to look like numpties by canning it? Surely easier to eliminate the possible problem (one surveyor’s responses) then reweight and crunch the numbers again?

    Polls are pretty cheap to commission. Yougov can be as little as £7-800 for a single question.
    We should come up with a pb poll question and all chip in to commission it for the lolz.
    “Will a personalised letter from Britain’s leading political betting expert influence your vote?”
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,088

    HYUFD said:

    Starmer commits to keep Labour's plan to raise tax on those earning over £80,000 a year.

    Nandy says she will replace the Order of the British Empire with an Order of British Excellence
    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/starmer-shifts-left-in-attempt-to-crowd-long-bailey-out-of-labour-contest/ar-BBZyXiF?ocid=spartandhp

    Lisa Nandy is right on the OBE
    No she isn't.

    I love the Empire.
    All that is left is the "biscuit"
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,088

    nico67 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Raab says Tusk was 'irresponsible' to say an Independent Scotland could join the EU and the SNP must honour and accept the result of the 2014 referendum and focus on domestic policy

    I have no sympathy for Donald Tusk.

    None.

    He has his fans on here, but he's just as much of an EU ideologue as Selmayr or Verhofstadht, and even less diplomatic.
    What exactly did he say that’s so offended you . I saw the interview and couldn’t find anything that was controversial .
    He's been trying to whip the Scottish up into a frenzy today (see BBC news) and in recent weeks he gave an insulting interview about his time in the UK. It all derives from his anger at Brexit, and desire to give us one back.

    He's a real piece of work.
    What a Turnip
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,088

    Mr. G, why do you think it's unreasonable for equal treatment with Canada, South Korea, or Japan?

    It is a UK / EU treaty, and has nothing to do with the completely different markets of Canada, South Korea, or Japan. They are not mugs and this will be multiple times the size and complexity of deals with countries on different continents. Bears no comparisons whatsoever.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,568
    edited February 2020
    HYUFD said:

    Starmer commits to keep Labour's plan to raise tax on those earning over £80,000 a year.

    Nandy says she will replace the Order of the British Empire with an Order of British Excellence
    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/starmer-shifts-left-in-attempt-to-crowd-long-bailey-out-of-labour-contest/ar-BBZyXiF?ocid=spartandhp

    I wouldn't make that my priority, but given that, demonstrably, we no longer possess an Empire it's not the worst idea.
This discussion has been closed.